5@5 - Why hunting your own dinner is an ethical way to eat
July 2nd, 2012
05:00 PM ET
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5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe.

Editor's Note: Lily Raff McCaulou is an award-winning journalist, Knight-Wallace Fellowship recipient and a columnist for The Bulletin in Bend, Oregon. Her first book, "Call of the Mild: Learning to Hunt My Own Dinner" was published in June.

Growing up, I didn’t know anyone who hunted. Hunters, I figured, were probably just barbaric gun nuts. Then, eight years ago, I moved from Manhattan to rural Oregon, to write for a small newspaper. My perspective shifted when I began interviewing hunters for my articles and realized that although I had long considered myself an environmentalist, these hunters – most of whom scoffed at the “E” word – were more knowledgeable and thoughtful about animals and nature than I was.

Eventually, I decided to buy a gun and join them. But don’t worry, I’m still an environmentalist, loud and proud.

Five Reasons Why Hunting a Wild Animal Makes an Ethical Dinner: Lily Raff McCaulou

1. Hunting has a light environmental footprint
No antibiotics, artificial hormones, pesticides, herbicides, or unnatural feeds were used in raising this meat. Unlike farmed animals, a wild one doesn't contribute to soil erosion, water pollution, or the displacement of native plants in favor of a monoculture. No land is tilled to feed a wild animal, so additional carbon isn’t released into the atmosphere.

2. Wild animals aren’t subject to the misery of factory farming
My venison was never confined, castrated, or branded the way most farmed steers are. My duck was never caged, de-beaked, or toe-clipped the way most domesticated poultry is. Wild animals, unlike many domesticated ones, aren’t bred, fed and medicated to achieve rapid weight gain so that they can be killed at just a few weeks of age.

3. None of the meat is wasted
After I shoot an animal, I gut it and butcher it myself (or, in the case of an 800-pounds bull elk, with some help from friends). This way, I know the meat was handled safely. I don’t have to worry about listeria or trichinosis. And I’m confident that as much of the animal as possible is used. To hunt and butcher an animal is to recognize that meat is not some abstract form of protein that springs into existence tightly wrapped in cellophane and styrofoam. Meat is life. So I seek out recipes that make the most of it. I cook it with care. I share with friends and family. I make sure eat every bite gets enjoyed.

4. Hunting pays for conservation
To hunt for elk this fall, for example, I’ve already bought an Oregon hunting license for $29.50, paid $8 to enter a lottery for the right to hunt in a particular spot, and purchased a $42.50 tag. That means I’ve already paid $80 toward wildlife research and habitat protection in my home state. Bird-watchers and hikers haven’t paid anywhere near that much.

With approximately 12.5 million hunters nationwide, we’re talking about real money. Proceeds from the Federal Duck Stamp – a required $15 annual purchase for migratory waterfowl hunters – have added more than five million acres to the national wildlife refuge system. And federal excise taxes on hunting equipment and ammunition garner more than $200 million a year for wildlife management and the purchase of public lands.

5. Hunting promotes conservation
To hunt is to participate in the ecosystem rather than just watch from the sidelines. When I track an animal, I use all of my senses to take in my surroundings, as if I were a wild animal myself. So by the time I actually shoot something, I’ve developed a deep connection to the species and to the land. I considered myself an environmentalist before I started hunting. But back then, all of my reasons for conservation were theoretical. Now that I hunt, I have a real-life, vested interest in seeing places – and wildlife populations – preserved in the long-term. Someday, I want take my son hunting in all of my favorite spots.

Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down.

Previously - 'The Hunger Games' bucks hunter stereotypes and Chef Dan Barber: Killing your own food is an incontestably moral act and 5@5 – Five ways to eat more duck

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Filed under: 5@5 • Animal Rights • Food Politics • Hunting • Path to the Plate • Think


soundoff (1,461 Responses)
  1. Rita Hoffman

    Lady – get a spear and some rocks for weapons, then get close to naked like our ancestors in some nasty weather, and starve yourself for a few days before going on the hunt. Then it will be a fair fight. You have no idea how to really hunt and we haven't since we invented scopes, electronics, gortex and portable 3 room tents. Your senses are not even involved. You just took a walk in the park to kill a living creature just because it was your pleasure and not because you had to in order to survive. Shame!

    July 3, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Reply
    • AJ

      First, why don't you try to harvest wheat without any tools and see how you fare?

      July 3, 2012 at 6:42 pm | Reply
      • Rita Hoffman

        You missed the point and I'm gluten free.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Reply
        • Guest

          Go make some tofu from scratch then. You missed the point too.

          July 4, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
    • Thinking things through

      I have a friend who actually did that back in the 80s.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Reply
      • Thinking things through

        It was challenging, but he got the deer. I respect him for that.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Reply
      • Thinking things through

        the ONLY tool he had was a simple hunting knife.

        Frankly, I think getting one's meat honestly (and yes some of us do need non-bean protein) is better than the supermarket deception.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Reply
    • ONTHunter

      Unfortunately, your logic is a bit off. Humans would hunt in packs. They would track an animal, and then chase it at a steady jog. Because furred mammals do not have the ability to sweat, they over heat after running for so long. Humans are built to run. It would not be long before the group of humans had the animal surrounded and killed. This form of hunting causes incredible stress on the animal, who is basically dead from exhaustion. Is this how hunting should be carried out?

      July 3, 2012 at 10:45 pm | Reply
    • Aaron

      You've obviously never hunted. It's not as simple as taking a "walk in the park". If you put in the time and effort to actually find out where the deer are going to be, then the oppurtunity may present itself. After you climb a tree and remain motionless and quiet for several hours. Then, if an animal even decides to come by, you still have to make the shot. Which by no means at all is easy. You use all of your senses to hunt. No matter how rich you are and no matter how much technology you use.

      July 4, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Reply
  2. Thinking things through

    No, but I get meat from someone who does

    No, but I want to

    That is me to date. Both of the above.

    I'd have to get to be a crack shot before I did this. I want the animal death to be as painless as possible, which means I'm closer but not quite ready. Humans do mainly need meat or fish in their diet. I'm alll for vegetarianism, but veganism needs too many artificial supports to be realistically viable. And sometimes even with those, it fails.

    I don't want to eat supermarket factory farmed meats. Whether a hunter shoots dinner for me, or a responsible sustainable livestock person provides me with goat or lamb or poultry, it is part of a good healthy humanity. Yes, we can stop eating meat and take the toll in health. And indeed many of us in the First World eat too much of it. So, I'll eat it responsibly, without tossing my health to risk. When I am ready to hunt on my own, I will.

    July 3, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Reply
    • greg

      I like what you're saying. I became a crack shot (minute of angle at 200 yards) with careful hand-loading and practice with the 30-06 before I went hunting, for the same reason you stated: I felt it my responsibility if I was going to hunt to maximize the likelihood of a clean kill.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:12 pm | Reply
  3. Hunter

    Lily – Very nice article. Yes, I hunt but there is much more to it that just Food and/or Sport. I love a hunt that ends with organic game meat in my freezer but most of all I just like being out in the woods with friends, family, or even alone. I've come back from many "unsuccessful" hunting trips with a big smile. Unfortunately, a lot of folks don't understand that wildlife conservation is funded primarily by hunters. Not to mention the big economy boost brought to small rural towns that rely on motels, restaurants, sporting goods stores, and other local businesses to get busy during hunting season. Sure, there is the occassional poacher, unethical hunter, or unsafe d-bag our there that gets some media attention and gives the other 99% a bad name. But if you take away the hunter, wildlife management and conservation will suffer. A perfect example is the Yellowstone elk herd. What used to be the mother of elk herds has been decimated by over 70% since 1995. The main reason? Wolves were introduced and management was not allowed by individual states under the endangered species act. The wolf population blew up and killed 1000s of elk and most of the moose in YNP. Anti-hunting groups were able to sue and sue to keep these vicious killers on the endangered list many years after a full recovery of the wolf. The hunter was taken out of the equation and now deer, elk, moose, and sheep quotas have been severely reduced in the states of Montana and Idaho. Smaller quotas equals less money for wildlife conservation and less money for local business. Everyone suffers...except the wolf of course.

    July 3, 2012 at 6:18 pm | Reply
    • Thinking things through

      Thank you, excellent points.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:30 pm | Reply
    • lena

      humans should not interfere with nature. We started hunting and made a havoc of everything. Don't cut the forest for pastures and farms and we won't have to introduce wolves. Every time man introduce something, something else went wrong. If we humans don't destroy nature for our egoistic purposes, there is nothing to be fixed. If nature needed us to help, we would be manufacturing babies in a mother's womb. Nature is perfect as long as human's don't do something unnatural. No need for hunting, just be vegan, take as little as possible from nature and put the guns away. It is not a toy and our children shouldn't even know about them.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:40 pm | Reply
      • peridot2

        In that case, humans need to stop reproducing immediately. We're at 7 billion and growing. It's an unsustainable number. How many children do you have? your friends? Zero Population Growth is too much now, we need to shrink our numbers drastically.

        How many people do you know who are willing to have one child? or none?

        July 3, 2012 at 8:36 pm | Reply
        • Primal 4 Life

          Um, every single person on earth can fit inside the state of Texas with room to spare. The notion that we are over populated is complete rubbish. A myth put forth by evil eugenicists who wish nothing more than to be free of what they deem unworthy people. I believe the tern they use is "useless eaters."

          July 3, 2012 at 10:00 pm |
      • ONTHunter

        So the way to be "natural" is to become vegan and abandon what our bodies were built to do? Sounds unnatural to me. Humans are hunters/gatherers by nature...So lets shut down the farming and supermarket industry and let everyone fend for themselves, like the good ol days. We'll see how long your beans and corn last when the looters come to steal from you and you have no firearm to defend yourself.

        Every study has shown that in the event of a significant natural disaster, people who hunt, fish, and know the woods are the most likely to survive. You enjoy your processed tofu, I will continue to do what I was made to do...hunt, fish, and enjoy the outdoors. Cheers!

        July 4, 2012 at 12:54 am | Reply
  4. Solo

    Ethics has nothing to do with how anyone obtains their daily meals, unless they are stealing or lying to get them. This author needs a dictionary and a cheeseburger.

    July 3, 2012 at 6:08 pm | Reply
  5. Ken Margo

    A bunch of self serving crap. No mater how the animal is treated you still kill it. Making it fell better before hand doesn't make a difference. In highly populated areas where there are few animals, this will not work. Also, giving guns to more people isn't exactly safe. Animals get diseases too. Suppose the animal you kill is diseased and you can't tell then what? What about individuals in the meat industry put out of work?

    July 3, 2012 at 5:49 pm | Reply
    • wherecanigetsomeobjectivity

      Hunters seek to protect land from development, preserving and or expanding roadless areas in order to maintain a natural ecosystem. Besides, the whitetail deer has proven to increase it's population density in suburbs and other areas where humans have encroached upon their territory.

      Hunters buying guns to hunt is perfectly fine. Criminals, miscreants and others having guns can lead to problems....but they cannot obtain guns legally, if they can't get it legally, what makes you think they would obey other laws?

      Animals do get diseases, and hunters have been at ground zero for preventing prion diseases such as CWD. Beyond that animals can spread disease locally to crops and watersources. If hunters are hunting and controlling the population while additionally providing valuable feedback to local biologists those diseases can be controlled and eradicated.

      What about the local communities that depend on the money spent by hunters, fisherman and anyone else that use the land that hunters had a part in protecting. Studies have shown that the outdoor industry contributes over $600B (that's a B for billion) annually to the economy. This is from hunters, bikers, skiers, snowboarders, birders, hikers and anyone else who seeks to enjoy our national forests, wilderness areas and other public lands. Further since 1937 the Robertsman-Pittman Act (an excise tax levied by hunters on themselves) has contributed over a billion dollars to conservation. Hunters through the purchase of guns and bullets are taxed for conservation. Hunters through the purchase of licenses and tags contributes to conservation. Hunters who travel to communities to contribute to local economies. Hunters who are members of conservation organizations give their additional dollars to conservation.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:03 pm | Reply
    • Thinking things through

      Without all the people (who are mainly duck hunters or their friends) contributing to sources such as Ducks Unlimited - I doubt there'd be many ducks in our skies today.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:33 pm | Reply
      • Peteyroo

        How many ducks do you suppose there'd be if no one killed them?

        July 4, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Reply
  6. Primal 4 Life

    I am about to go make a perfectly grilled T-Bone steak from a local grass cow. With every delectable bite I will be think about the look on poor lena's face. It will make every bite even that much more delicious.

    Saturday I will be slow cooking two entire beef shoulders, (Texas clod,) I will dedicate them to lena and mike. Then I will serve them to my many guests and they will enjoy their best meal of the week.

    July 3, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Reply
    • lena

      I'm sure that some people had your reaction – to do what they like doing even if it might be wrong. But some will think about it and research. I love open minded people who think. I love you too but I don’t respect that you are going to eat a cow. And please, do not dedicate someone’s shoulder to me or mike… Dedicate it to your ego.  Cheers.  I have to go now.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:22 pm | Reply
      • greg

        nice, lena.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        IT ISN'T WRONG, PERIOD. You simply think it is, that doesn't mean anything. You are nobody, you have no say. You have no authority whatsoever to deem right and wrong for anyone but you. Get that through your feeble little mind. I don't tell you you must hunt, you do not get to tell me I can't hunt, period. There is no other choice.

        You can keep lying to yourself to feel better but that is all you are doing.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:45 pm | Reply
        • lena

          ohhh, it seems I got you mad... sorry. If we were living only 300 year ago when some were killing 'innocent' others on a guillotine pretending to protect the society and you where among the procecutors, we would have the same conversation: you would tell me to mind my own business and not to tell you not to kill.

          July 3, 2012 at 7:28 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          You are G D right I am mad. I don't foist my lifestyle on you. I absolutely DEMAND that you do not foist your lifestyle on me, or anyone else that doesn't agree with you.

          In a FREE COUNTRY, that is absolutely a reasonable compromise.

          July 3, 2012 at 10:20 pm |
        • Peteyroo

          Wrong answer Punk Man. We have a moral duty to call you out and expose you as a murderous slimeball.

          July 4, 2012 at 5:01 pm |
    • Primal 4 Life

      Well I do not respect you at all. None, nada, zilch. You don't even deserve to live in America with your pathetic attitude. If it were up to me, I'd toss ya out like trash.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:48 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      Pimped 4 Life, what? You're not inviting me to your barbecue? I'm hurt. I'd like to see who is so depraved and mentally ill that they would hang out with you. It takes a special person I am sure. Are you all going to show off your rifles and pretend that you're big-game hunters? Perhaps you'll swap tales of tracking your kills for days through dense underbrush while dodging crocodiles and komodo dragons. Hunting is dangerous. You can skin your knee or get a sticker in your finger.

      July 4, 2012 at 4:50 pm | Reply
  7. dan

    "I luv T-Bone steak". Dan-carnivore.

    July 3, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Reply
    • lena

      Not much to be proud of... cannibals love eating human flesh.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Reply
    • Primal 4 Life

      Amen brotha

      Ignore lena, she is nothing but a vegan troll with no respect for any other way.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Reply
      • Peteyroo

        Punked by Lifers, don't be such a hard-nosed pain in the backside. You're overreacting to everything, my bedwetting friend. The last time I saw you, you were passed out on the floor of the Dew Drop Inn, a notorious "Gentlemen's" club catering to low-life losers such as yourself. You are overcompensating for your obvious character flaws by being such a rabid killer/hunter.

        July 4, 2012 at 4:58 pm | Reply
    • dan

      Lena, let me wax philosophical for a moment. For sake of argument, let's forget about all the cruel and abusive methods used in the raising and slaughtering of animals. These methods are both inhumane and unethical. But now, let's say a cow , chicken, etc. is raised humanely and enjoys a relatively good life for a year or two and then slaughtered for human consumption. Apart from the need of humans, the vast majority of these animals would never come into existence. What do you suppose the animals preference would be, non-existence or an enjoyable life followed by harvesting?

      July 3, 2012 at 5:50 pm | Reply
      • lena

        Just imagine that you are that chicken... Would you be ok if someone would raise you in a palace just to kill you at the end? Can we imagine the pain of how being killed feels like? The nervous system of an animal is the same as of a human. Why dominate and kill when we can be much healthier and happier by eating a vegan diet. It's just a matter of relearning.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:10 pm | Reply
        • dan

          Yes, being the chicken I would choose an enjoyable life over non-existence. The great caveat here is that the animal has no concept of it's eventuality. Here's another eventually: everything dies once.

          July 3, 2012 at 6:24 pm |
      • Tom

        Dan, I love hypothetical questions. I have a gun to my head, on a desert island and I am the last man on the planet. LOL, In all seriousness, I think the cow would prefer to not be killed and live out its natural life. All domesticated farm animals existed as wild animals before man domesticated them. They do not need us to exist.

        July 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Reply
        • dan

          I think you would concur that were it not for human needs the vast majority of these animals would never exist.

          July 3, 2012 at 6:26 pm |
        • Tom

          Dan, you can make that same argument about slaves and African Americans. Without the institution of slavery, the slave trade and slave auctions, almost all African Americans would not exist today. I do not believe African Americans today were request that their ancestors suffer through the brutality of slavery so that they can exist today. Your argument is flawed.

          July 3, 2012 at 7:23 pm |
  8. lena

    "For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other. Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and love." Pythagoras, mathematician, vegetarian

    July 3, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Reply
    • wherecanigetsomeobjectivity

      Do you have a coexist sticker on your car?

      July 3, 2012 at 5:38 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        LMAO!

        July 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Reply
      • Tom

        Do you have a Bush Cheney sticker on your car?

        July 3, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Reply
      • Thinking things through

        I don't have any bumper stickers on my car, but I LIKE the Co-Exist one. As a future hunter and a current sustainablly farmed meat & seafood eater, do you have any difficulties with co-existing?

        July 3, 2012 at 6:40 pm | Reply
        • Tom

          That is not co-existence. That is exploitation!

          July 3, 2012 at 8:15 pm |
    • JimOmnivore

      "It would appear as if man is really unable to sustain life without either meat or milk and milk products. Anyone who deceives people in this regard or countenances the fraud" – Gandhi 1946

      July 3, 2012 at 6:11 pm | Reply
      • lena

        JimOmnivore, did you know that humans are the only mammals that drink the milk of another specie. It started about 10,000 years ago and only 30% of humans adjusted to it and the rest can not digest it. Our lactic enzyme disappear at the age of about three and we are actually the only mammals that drink milk after weaning. I bet that if cats would have bigger boobs you would drink cat milk now. As for the meat, humans are not for eating flesh.... do some research and try to look at things through different lenses.

        July 3, 2012 at 7:33 pm | Reply
  9. lena

    "My refusing to eat meat occasioned inconveniency, and I have been frequently chided for my singularity. But my light repast allows for greater progress, for greater clearness of head and quicker comprehension." Benjamin Franklin, American statesman, inventor, vegetarian

    July 3, 2012 at 5:30 pm | Reply
    • wherecanigetsomeobjectivity

      Celebrate diversity

      July 3, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Reply
  10. lena

    "The Gods created certain kinds of beings to replenish our bodies; they are the trees and the plants and the seeds." Plato (vegetarian)

    July 3, 2012 at 5:28 pm | Reply
  11. lena

    "The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men." Leonardo Da Vinci (vegetarian)

    July 3, 2012 at 5:28 pm | Reply
    • ONTHunter

      So I am supposed to take dietary advice from someone who made a living sniffing paint thinner??

      July 3, 2012 at 6:50 pm | Reply
      • lena

        that's all you know about Leonardo da Vinci? Or you are just saying something for the sake of saying..... I did not cense that he was high from his drawings and discoveries. We humans, always try to put down someone with a higher IQ than ours just to feel good.

        July 3, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          My point is he is not a scientist, biologist, or dietician. He was a painter.

          What does IQ have anything to do with lifestyle choices? Are vegans somehow magically smarter than the common omnivore? The funny thing is, when the economy finally collapses, we will see who survives. There will be no grocery stores, there will be no farms....BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO MONEY!!! Yet I will still be in the woods, enjoying the fruits of my labor, and laughing at those who chose to deem me inferior due to my diet choices!!!

          July 4, 2012 at 7:27 am |
      • ekwinne

        ONTHunter: you will be laughing for awhile, until your bullets run out and your sniper dot fades. Unless you hunt with a bow and arrow, which you make yourself, or a spear, that you make yourself, you'll be just as worse off as the rest of us in the end.

        July 5, 2012 at 9:22 am | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          I don't need bullets to hunt. Unlike you, I have a knowledge of the outdoors. I know how to pattern animals, how to track them, and more importantly, how to snare/trap them. I would be just fine should my 10 000 bullets run out :).

          July 5, 2012 at 9:46 am |
  12. lena

    "It is very significant that some of the most thoughtful and cultured men are partisans of a pure vegetable diet." Mahatma Gandhi

    July 3, 2012 at 5:27 pm | Reply
    • JimOmnivore

      "It would appear as if man is really unable to sustain life without either meat or milk and milk products. Anyone who deceives people in this regard or countenances the fraud" – Gandhi 1946

      July 3, 2012 at 6:52 pm | Reply
    • ONTHunter

      Yet PETA (for the most part) is full of inconsiderate, thoughtless, obnoxious criminals.

      Its funny, with all the brilliant minds that have presented themselves since the recording of history, there are only a handful of names that you could come up with that are vegetarians. Its probably relatively the same omnivore/vegetarian ratio that we see today.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:58 pm | Reply
      • lena

        the reason being that the majority of humans do what is easier and do not want to accept something that might cause inconvenience to them. Think why you don't want to try a vegan diet and if you do it honestly, you might find something unpleasant about yourself. If you tried already, I take back my word. But i don't mean trying for a few hours or days. I mean open your mind, do the best of your food, trick your mind who always wants to go the easiest way and do a lot of research of the newly discovered facts about the detrimental affects of the animal products.

        July 3, 2012 at 8:38 pm | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          I would rather live a shortened life doing what I want, than live an extended one where I am miserable. I enjoy eating meat, it is delicious. I like knowing that it is my right to eat and drink whatever I choose to, just as it is your right. I have an open mind, I just have no interest in changing to a vegan diet. You are more than welcome to continue eating what you want. I will not criticize your decision. We only live once, so I'm going to enjoy every minute of it doing what I love to do.

          July 4, 2012 at 7:33 am |
  13. lena

    If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian. ~Paul McCartney

    July 3, 2012 at 5:24 pm | Reply
    • wherecanigetsomeobjectivity

      If slaughterhouses had glass walls, more people would seek to take part in their existence instead of having others kill for them by proxy.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Reply
    • John Doe

      Got anything original?

      July 3, 2012 at 6:50 pm | Reply
    • Liberal Elitist

      If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would buy stock in Windex.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Reply
  14. lena

    Nothing will benefit human health and increase chances for survival of life on
    Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet. ALBERT EINSTEIN (vegetarian)

    July 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Reply
    • ONTHunter

      Of all the quotes you posted, not one of them is a doctor or dietician...you have an astronomer, a painter, a mathematician, a tree hugger, and a musician. None of whom had any clue what they were talking about when it comes to health and diet. I'll stick with the advice of the Department of Health and stick with my 2-3 meat servings a day thank you very much.

      July 3, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Reply
      • lena

        all the doctors learn how to heal you and what medications to prescribe to you... .dieticians follow the doctors advice. So far, not many of them looked into the vegan diet cause they think it's nonsense, it goes against what they said so far.... It is hard to admit that you might be wrong. Easy, go to a doctor and take all the tests possible... stay on a vegan diet for 4 months (all it takes for the blood to cleanse) and go back to test yourself again. I am sure you can see a huge benefit earlier than that, but just to be safe. Many, many people healed themselves from cancer, diabetes, Crohn's decease, heart problems and other illnesses with a plant-based diet. if a plant-based diet heals, obviously it can prevent the unnecessary pain.

        July 3, 2012 at 8:28 pm | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          Ok pinko, I am going to change my diet now because some random person on the internet told me I wont get cancer if I do. As I said before, I'm going to live my life to the fullest. I'm going to go to Lonestar and get their 72oz steak and eat every morsel of it. Why? 1) because I can, 2) because I want to, and 3) its my money, my life, so f##k off.

          July 4, 2012 at 7:38 am |
  15. lena

    Truly man is the king of beasts, for his brutality exceeds them. We live by the death of others. We are burial places.
    —Leonardo Da Vinci (1452–1519 vegetarian)

    July 3, 2012 at 5:22 pm | Reply
    • Eye of round

      Did he know that alfalfa screams when it's harvested? The cruel beast, anyway.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:37 pm | Reply
  16. Tatiana Covington

    Just clone the meat without bothering with the rest of the animal. That is no longer Science Fiction. It is being done right now, with fairly good results.

    Does that sound "yuck"? It is infinitely less "yuck" than killing tens of billions of birds, animals, and fish every year. Further, we already do eat cultured foods on the megaton scale: cheese comes to mind.

    July 3, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Reply
    • Moishe

      That time will come...and it shall. In the meantime we have this weird woman justifying why she runs around with a bunch of bears in the woods shooting Bambi.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:45 pm | Reply
    • AJ

      Cheese is no where near the same as lab-grown meat.

      And cloned meat? You need to read some Michael Pollan. We can't even get baby formula to be the same as human milk and we've been trying for decades. There are various other substances in meat than just the protein, fat, and the list of vitamins/minerals. What an animal eats even changes the nutritional make-up of the meat (meat from wild game and pastured livestock is leaner and significantly higher in Omega-3s). There are very likely nuances we don't even know to look for at this point in time!

      Real food is best.

      July 3, 2012 at 6:54 pm | Reply
  17. Cousin Fred

    Must be nice where you are, author. But in cities and urban areas, where 85% of the US population lives, hunting ain't happening.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Reply
    • lena

      Maybe it is nice now, but wait until more like him will start hunting... I’m sure the beauty won't last long.... So much harm done to the planet and our health just to satisfy our pallet and gluttonous nature….
      More and more people in cities are becoming vegan, thanks God.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        For every one that goes vegan I get no less than 3 to go Primal and never look back.

        I win!

        July 3, 2012 at 5:14 pm | Reply
        • lena

          You got your stats wrong dear... the world is changing faster than you think. Maybe not so much the older generation but the young are moving fast towards a vegan diet.

          July 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm |
        • sam stone

          Still blathering on, eh little boy?

          July 3, 2012 at 5:25 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          Keep up the good work the laughter you create is adding years to my already very healthy life.

          July 3, 2012 at 5:35 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          LMAO at lena. I live in a college town and spend plenty of time with students. 95% of them eat meat. All of those who eat my cooking come back for more.

          NEXT!

          July 3, 2012 at 5:36 pm |
  18. greg

    Ok Mike, There's great merit in stressing the ethical dimension of our interaction with the other animals that inhabit this planet. That's where the complexity begins. I called your arguments facile (superficial) and fatuous (silly, without substance) because they consistently ignore this complexity. To wit: we as human animals have been hunting and eating other animals for hundreds of thousands of years (and millions more going back to our hominid ancestors); the natural world of which we are a part is and ever has been teeming with predator/prey relationships; and while these facts don't make an ethical argument, they have meaning and weight. Our existence is a vale of tears, Mike, for us and the other animals, and my response to this condition is – good luck and good hunting!

    July 3, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Reply
    • Tom

      Greg, I wonder if you would make this same argument if we were taking about child molestation or rape? Both predatorial relationships that have existed for thousands of years.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Reply
      • wherecanigetsomeobjectivity

        That is a red herring argument, yes hunting for food is an identical relationship to rape and child molestation. Please, can you just accept diversity and live up to that coexist bumpersticker on your car?

        July 3, 2012 at 5:46 pm | Reply
        • Tom

          That is not a red herring fallacy. Greg is making the argument that predator-prey relationship is a natural part of life, so we should accept hunting and eating meat as right. I am simply pointing out that if you accept that argument then you must accept all aspects of the natural world not just the ones that help your argument.

          July 4, 2012 at 2:35 am |
        • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

          Tom, you’re an idiot.

          July 5, 2012 at 11:16 am |
  19. Justin

    There's a great many individuals here who are detached from reality. Living your life in a steel box, walking in concrete jungles, and working in cages has made many delusional. Killing your own meat, raising your own vegetables, and identifying with your natural state will open your eyes to the truth of your human nature. The author recognized it and embraced her animal instincts. Humans are animals, we eat animals, and they are subservient to us. There's no form of food on this planet that does not come to us other than through the death of a living thing. Be honest or be a hypocrite. The choice is yours.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Reply
    • lena

      There are many animals that do not kill, why not compare ourselves with them... we weren't born with spears and guns. I’m sure nature didn't make a mistake. Killing is not natural; maybe our ancestors made a mistake like many other mistakes.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Reply
      • AJ

        Better go tell the lions, wolves, bats, etc., that killing isn't natural.

        By the way, humans are OMNIVORES. We are physiologically designed to eat meat. Your personal denial doesn't change scientific fact.

        July 3, 2012 at 7:04 pm | Reply
        • Primal 4 Life

          BAM! Scientifically OWNED!

          July 3, 2012 at 11:30 pm |
  20. Mg

    One major point of hunting is that you gain an appreciation of the food you eat. We have traversed through history as hunter gathers. We are also scavengers and our adaptability has helped us get where we are. The fact is we can survive on anything hence the reason that we are omnivores. While we can survive on both diets we are better off with a good mix depending on your particular life style. If you don't eat meat its supplemented with nuts etc. the fact is Meat is one of the highest sources of protein on the planet and probably the most accessible. Hunting is in our nature like many other animals on this planet. The primary cause of obesity isn't because we eat too much meat. Its because we eat in a way that is unnatural to us. We simply eat too much and at the wrong time. Most people in this country probably do not even know what its like to feel legitimately hungry, rather they just think they are hungry. So believe what you want, but also have the humility to respect other peoples preferences. Meat is a sustainable energy source for us and its highly effective that's why we have consumed it for thousands of years, at the same time so is plant life etc. True hunters appreciate their kills and acknowledge the struggle between hunter and prey. The feeling is nothing short of primal and quickly learn how unforgiving nature really is.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply
    • lena

      I am sure that human flesh is also the highest sources of protein on the planet, so what? Every human body is designed the same and will thrive on a vegan diet (unless the mind interferes. alcoholics also think that they can't live with no alcohol, the body is used to it). We don't need that much protein; we need the amino-acids from the protein. Eating protein that is hard to be broken down into amino-acids (like animal protein) is harsh on our digestive system and the organs wear out. A big part of the animal protein can not be digested goes into waste to rotten in our herbivorous intestine. Eating plant-based protein is easily broken down, does not cause acidity in the body and doesn't come with what we don't need like cholesterol, hormones, saturated fats and other detrimental elements.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Reply
      • AJ

        A vegan diet is not the natural human diet. In fact, you CANNOT SURVIVE on a vegan diet without supplements! And even then, supplements aren't as efficient as getting your nutrients from real food.

        There are many "failed vegans" that did everything "right" and still ended up with a slew of health problems due to deficiencies.

        There's a reason no cultures have traditionally vegan, they would have died out if they tried! Cultures that are traditionally vegetarian highly prize animal products such as eggs and milk.

        July 3, 2012 at 7:08 pm | Reply
    • lena

      And if one has an uneasy feeling about an action he or she does to others, it means is against his/her human dignity. We shouldn't expect to be forgiven if we can avoid making someone to forgive us.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:49 pm | Reply
  21. runnin' 87

    Forget all this ethical this and that. Kill it, gut it, skin it, cook it, eat it. There is no other way. Man has survived that way for thousands of years. Vegetables on the side.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:29 pm | Reply
    • lena

      Man survived this way but it doesn't mean its the best way... we could have been much better and healthier as a human race. We learned from predators to kill and eat. Instead, we should have learned from herbivorous and never allow ourselves to go that low. Looking at the herbivorous animals is a pleasure and brings calmness, that's how we should be.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:36 pm | Reply
      • Chuckles

        If you take a look at herbivores, omnivores and carnivores its all in the teeth. We, as humans, were born with molars for chewing and incisors for ripping and tearing. Herbivores have large flat teeth all around the mouth. Also, vegetarians kill plants when the eat them. You just dont feel bad because they are structured differently and are not cute furry animals.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:16 pm | Reply
        • Tom

          Chuckles, you should compare the relative size of the human colon to natural herbivores and carnivores. The Human digestive track is relatively long, which is most similar to herbivores. Carnivores have a relatively shorter digestive tracks to quickly move the meat throught the system. Long digestive tracks work best with high fiber diets, and fiber is only found in plant based sources. Meat contains no fiber, so it is unlikely humans evolved to be a prey animal.

          July 3, 2012 at 5:47 pm |
      • Primal 4 Life

        LMAO at lena, so misguided, so delusional, so very, very, wrong.

        Mother nature knows far better than you ever will what is best for us and that happens to be the way humans have eaten for 99% of our existence. It was not vegetarian. You cannot improve on that sorry.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Reply
    • Eye of round

      Veggies can't touch meat for quality protein. It's the reason orientals are short.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Reply
      • Tom

        You are mixing up nutrition with genetics. Height has more to do with genetics than nutrition. Keep in mind that Elephants, Giraffes, Zebras, Horses and Cows are all naturally large animals that derive all their nutrition from plant based sources. They require much greater amounts of protien, iron, calcium and B12 than humans and they get it all from plants. Yes, Even B12. It is found in bacteria that grows in the ground around plants, and it is produced by bacteria that naturally lives in their colon.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:57 pm | Reply
  22. TXH1953

    You Keep What You Kill

    July 3, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Reply
    • lena

      and you are a 'killer'.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Reply
      • TXH1953

        Yes dear I am.

        A Natural Born Killer.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:42 pm | Reply
        • lena

          Nature didn't make you a killer, the society did. You are just a follower who does not want to accept that there is a different way, even if it is better. This is the problem with the majority of us.

          July 3, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
        • ONTHunter

          Sorry champ, but nature did make us killers. Have you ever researched why humans are fantastic distance runners compared to the rest of the animal kingdom? If you did, you would see that humans, at a slow jog, are capable of running incredible distances. This skill evolved to allow us to chase animals at a slow pace, using pack hunting methods still used in parts of Africa. They would chase the animal to exhaustion, because most mammals can't sweat and rely on breathing to cool their bodies. Killing is what we are built for. We were not built to go to the grocery store and feed the corporate superpowers wallets.

          July 4, 2012 at 12:13 pm |
  23. Peteyroo

    Horseradish! Killing animals is wrong regardless of who does it. Become a vegetarian–it's healthier and certainly more ethical. If killing things is so fun, I suggest hunters kill each other. At least then there'd be consent on both sides. Animals don't want to be the target of murderous humans.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Reply
    • 2el8

      You can't grill it until you kill it.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Reply
    • Farenth

      yes it would be much more kind to allow populations to grow out of controll and wait until disease and starvation take over instead of controlling population through hunting.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Reply
    • greg

      As a lover of horseradish, I strongly condemn your perjorative reference to this fine condiment. Most excellent with stews and roasts.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:40 pm | Reply
      • 2el8

        Not to mention it's great on a nice grilled steak.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:45 pm | Reply
      • BooBoo

        Horseradish and filet mignon... oh my... yum

        July 3, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Reply
    • Lindsay

      Oh, and they'd much rather have their infants be targets of wolves and coyotes and all other predators in the wild? Nature isn't this pretty flower world that you think it is. It's cruel and vicious and human hunters are equal if not more humane than other animal predators. At least we aren't doing what kimodo dragons do, where they bite their prey and them them wander for days as the wound festers and rots and the animal collapses to be eaten alive. Or better yet, lions, who often don't kill their prey, and instead eat it from the rear end forwards since that meat is easier to get to which keeps the prey item alive for the duration of the feeding, as well as when the buzzards come to finish it off.

      As for hunters, you know how many deer are hit by cars every year? I've seen a deer be hit by a car and thrash around on the side of the road in agony for hours until a local HUNTER showed up and shot it to put it out of it's misery. A much less peaceful death than being shot with an arrow that allows the animal to bleed out within minutes. But you suggest shooting human beings because they disagree with your paradigm. I think you have your priorities switched up a bit.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Reply
    • Brian S

      I'm sure that grapefruit you murdered this morning for breakfast was dying to be eaten!

      July 3, 2012 at 5:00 pm | Reply
      • ekwinne

        Seeing as fruits are designed to be eaten so that their seed will spread to other diverse locations, I'd say yes it was happy and thankful. And did not scream in pain as I enjoyed it.

        July 5, 2012 at 9:28 am | Reply
    • Chuckles

      You kill plants. Just cause they're different means killing them is ok?

      July 3, 2012 at 5:17 pm | Reply
      • lena

        How can you compare animals to plants? Your compassion is far from feeling the pain of a plant when you can't hear the cry and feel the pain of an animal who is murdered. Than what is the difference between a man, an animal and a plant? Animals are just like us, but in a different shape. Plants also feel pain, but one step at a time… first learn not to eat someone with eyes and flesh like yours.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:41 pm | Reply
    • Eye of round

      People Eating Tasty Animals. Deal with it.

      July 3, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Reply
  24. Venison

    The only comment that I will make is this and I dont plan on reading anymore either. Mike, don't you have anything better to do than sit for hours and argue a battle where nobody wins on an article comment page? I am a hunter by the way. I enjoy the outdoors, enjoy the hunt, and enjoy eating what I have provided for myself and my family. I am also in the environmental field for a living. I do not dislike you and your ways of being a vegetarian or vegan and respect your choice, just like I prefer respect for mine. Happy hunting to those that do, and have a good day to those that don't. I am now getting off this computer and going to the freezer to get some venison burger out to thaw. God bless all!

    July 3, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      I suggest you gather food for the family in the vegetable aisle of your local supermarket.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:13 pm | Reply
    • Farenth

      opinion noted but who are you to tell him how to provide for his family?

      July 3, 2012 at 4:28 pm | Reply
  25. boom

    P-–Practice
    E-–Eating
    T-–Tasty
    A-–Animals.

    you might like it.

    July 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      P – please
      E – eat
      T – the
      A – asparagus

      July 3, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        As a side for a perfectly grilled, grass fed and finished, steak. No problem at all. I'll even smother it with fresh, hand made, unpasteurized, butter, that I make myself.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:19 pm | Reply
  26. HW

    This lady should go back to Manhattan where she was belonging. Over there probably the only wild animals that can be hunted and ate are rats (not the human beings, since it is forbidden by the law). The Manhattan area must had the same kinds of animals this lady can hunt today, but they are all being hunted and ate by her or some one else’s ancestors.

    July 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Reply
    • 2el8

      What?

      July 3, 2012 at 4:00 pm | Reply
    • Farenth

      sounds like someone didnt read the article

      July 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
  27. MIKEYB

    The poll doesn't lie! Happy Independence day fellow hunters and conservationist. Thanks for your efforts! Hope to see you on the mountain away from all the madness!

    July 3, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Reply
    • lena

      we can selebrate something more noble than hunting. All the suffering we cause to others, but of course it is not us, why think... it is easier not to think but do what pleases us. Eventually all the anguish these animals go through will bite you back. This is the unseen law of the Universe. It is called karma. The hospitals are full of meat eaters.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Reply
      • 2el8

        selebrate? What's that?
        Hospitals are full vegan and vegetarians too.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Reply
        • lena

          I wonder how you recognized them.... where you one of the vegans who got sick? I don't know any unless they were sick already before they became vegans.

          July 3, 2012 at 4:21 pm |
        • lena

          If we didn't have to grow 10 times more grains to feed the animals, maybe we will also don't use so many pesticides, herbicides and other detrimental to our body chemicals…then, as a vegan, i would be even more healthier. Still, meat has a much higher concentration of pesticides than plant-based foods.

          July 3, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
      • Primal 4 Life

        It is not your place, or your right, to tell anyone else not to hunt, period.

        We all know you don't hunt and we don't care, now shut it.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      Hunting is murder. The next time you go out, leave the gun/bow at home.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:16 pm | Reply
      • greg

        Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:47 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        Nope, it isn't, period.

        Thank for playing anyway.

        NEXT!

        July 3, 2012 at 5:21 pm | Reply
  28. hecep

    This ammunition for political coverage has been brought to you by the NRA, firearm manufacturers' lobby, and Chambers of Commerce in popular hunting states. We want your money! So kill animals!

    July 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm | Reply
  29. good thinking

    Love to hunt, love to eat meat. Gives my canine teeth a purpose (unless you think canines are for ripping the flesh of a broccoli floret).

    July 3, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      Many herbivores also possess canines. But I'm sure you knew that.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:08 pm | Reply
      • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

        You are thinking of Omnivores. But I’m sure you knew that.

        July 3, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Reply
        • Mike

          No, actually, I'm not. Many herbivores, as in, animals that eat only plants, possess canines.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:18 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

          Okay.. I’m open to learning name a few.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:33 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

          Answer:
          Many, though not all, herbivores have canines. For example, canine teeth can be found in horses and deer, but they are often smaller than the canines found in carnivores. The ‘canine’ of a herbivore is very different in size (relative) and shape than that of an omnivore or carnivore.

          I’ve read a number of your posts and you have a habit of shaping the question in such a way as to make it easily disputed to support your view. At best your comments tend to be half truths. The question is.. are you just lying to us.. or to yourself.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
    • lena

      canines are for opening a coconut and a herbivourous intestine is for a plant based diet (that's what you and I have). If you can grab an animal as is (not cooked, not ripped of its skin) and just eat it, than you can compare yourself with a lion or a wolf. We are humans, why compare ourselves with predators....

      July 3, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Reply
      • Farenth

        if you open a coconut with your teach im impressed

        July 3, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Reply
        • Farenth

          teeth* sorry

          July 3, 2012 at 4:31 pm |
      • Brian S

        It's called Steak Tartare and it's Delicious!

        July 3, 2012 at 5:08 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      Good Stinking, you learned to hunt and you learned to like meat. You can just as easily learn not to hunt and learn to like vegetables. BTW, that's nonsense about the teeth.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Reply
      • lena

        All I meant is that these teeth are not for eating meat.... how many people would use them to eat raw flesh? It makes me sick in my stomach just to think that someone would do that and I’m sure not many.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:12 pm | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          Meat would traditionally be eaten raw, however with the industrialization of the meat market, there is chances of bacteria from the intestines getting onto the meat during butchering. Thats why we cook our meat, to kill bacteria that could be on it. I went seal hunting with a friend, and after he shot his seal, we were cutting pieces off and eating it right there. Its perfectly safe and healthy.

          July 5, 2012 at 9:55 am |
  30. HunterDan

    Some hunt, some do not.. We are all different and have different histories, values, tolerance levels, comfort zones etc...
    We are a diverse group...I cant believe I used that word.. USA is the wonderful place to live it is because of the freedoms we have-our right to free speech (as all these postings attest), our right to religion/belief systems (or none)- to name just a few..To quote 21k from an earlier post..." do what you wish, just don't tell the rest of us what we need to do to improve our lives. we already have politicians to do that". I could not agree more... Hunt or don't hunt; Eat meat or be a vegan; Eat only what you kill or eat processed meat. Lets just keep the freedom we have to chose what is right for each of us.
    Lena chooses to be a Vegan, RH eats meat from the "meat industry"..Both of those decisions are respected.. I chose to hunt, fish, garden, forage and shop for my family's food. I am so glad we have that freedom to chose the source and content of our food. I can only hope that I keep that freedom. From reading many posts above, I have to be concerned that I will not always have that freedom. No banter, no volley: I will not respond to any posts. Do what you do from your dark nameless hole; Tear my words to shreds, it matters not... To the author, Ms McCaulou. I enjoyed the excerpt, I may buy the book. The Omnivore's Dilemma will be on my reading list as well. All be well. Signed, A Father, Provider, Environmentalist, Conservationist, Patriot, Voter, and yes.. a HUNTER.

    July 3, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      The freedom to choose can only go so far. Throughout history, people have had to restrict freedom of choice in the name of a more civilized society. This is no different. People shouldn't be able to choose an unethical option.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:07 pm | Reply
      • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

        This is true Mike, however you seem to miss that ethics are subjective. Who are you to decide what is ethical for everyone else?

        July 3, 2012 at 3:15 pm | Reply
        • Mike

          Tom that is an excellent question, and probably one of the most difficult to answer. What many now considerable despicable acts were viewed as ethical at one time. I believe that at a certain point, things are objectively unethical. These might include murder, rape, theft, etc. Causing needless suffering to sentient animals is also something I would view as objectively unethical, and I think eventually most people will agree.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:20 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

          I’ll help you out Mike. The answer to the question is; No one. You have no place deciding this for others. This combined with your pseudo-science that humans don’t eat meat pretty much puts you in the tin foil hat club.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
      • Primal 4 Life

        Well you have no right whatsoever to make that determination. You are not an elected leader. You can make a suggestion, however I will ignore it and rightfully so. Your part of the scenario ends there, period.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Reply
    • lena

      The same thing the slave owners and the oppressors of other countries were saying – don't tell me what to do... As long as defenseless beings are harassed by the strongest, there will not be peace and harmony on this planet. Btw, I can’t see a bunch of vegans starting a war, their compassion encompasses more than just family, friends, and humans. Imagine having more love… that is the best attribute of a human. Love is God, the more the better.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Reply
      • Farenth

        "As long as defenseless beings are harassed by the strongest"

        soooo does that mean we have to kill all carnivores? its not their fault nature made them the way they are, should we try to make them vegitarians too?

        July 3, 2012 at 4:32 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        No matter how hard you try, no matter how much time you waste trying, no matter what you say. I will always hunt without regard to anything you think about and you will NEVER be able to do anything about it.

        Perhaps you should try something worthwhile because this ain't it.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:24 pm | Reply
    • aznealz

      @HunterDan – The Omnivore's Dilemma is a great read, as is A Hunter's Heart. Highly recommended.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Reply
  31. Lolo

    LOVE this article! I work for an environmental agency protecting endangered species, have a degree in Environmental science, and am a member of multiple environmental professional and political advocacy groups and I (and MANY of my colleagues) hunt and fish! The author did an awesome job of explaining the benefits of hunting to nature and animal welfare.
    -Note: yes it is more sustainable to go vegan, but to ask the world to give up meat is unreasonable and, for some people, very unhealthy. AND if you live in an area where hunting is not a possibility, try buying your meat at a farmer's market or from a small, local farmer.

    July 3, 2012 at 3:02 pm | Reply
    • lena

      I think that all the environmental agencies should start informing people that the #1 cause of all the environmental problems come from raising animals for food. This includes biodiversity loss. 60 billion animals... each of them eats in average 5 times more than a human being and most of the food we grow goes into feeding them. If our Governments would inform themselves and educate their citizens on the benefits of a vegan diet and what to eat, we will have a beautiful planet and non-violent people. Killing breeds violence.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:13 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      Lulu, hunting is murder no matter how you cut it. Don't pretend that it's population control or natural for humans to do it. Humans are smart enough to design a diet that is animal-free and healthy.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:23 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        Nope, it isn't. And no matter how many times you say it is, it will never be true.

        You are wrong, end of story!

        July 3, 2012 at 5:26 pm | Reply
  32. hecep

    And all this time I thought that it was moslty about the thrill of the kill.

    July 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm | Reply
  33. SherwoodOR

    "5@5 – Why hunting your own dinner is an ethical way to eat"

    The important word in that headline is "an," as in one of a plurality. I find nothing inherently unethical about farm-raised meat.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:55 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      Then you've probably never been to a modern farm.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Reply
      • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

        Sherwood said: inherently unethical. I have been to a farm and I agree with him. You may be referring to how SOME live stock is raise on SOME cooperate owned farms. But I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt on that one.

        July 3, 2012 at 3:18 pm | Reply
        • Mike

          Considering that over 90% of American meat is produced on factory farms, I'd say it is inherently unethical.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:29 pm |
        • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

          And it would still just be your OPINION. Funny you focus the question on to America. The majority of the WORLDs meat is NOT. Nice try though.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:38 pm |
  34. TXH1953

    And then the carrots SCREAMED

    July 3, 2012 at 2:52 pm | Reply
    • hecep

      Great. Now that one notorious Lost In Space episode came to mind.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:59 pm | Reply
  35. Mike

    The bottom line here is that we have to determine whether or not the suffering of animals matters. If it does matter, then we should avoid needlessly inflicting it for something as insignificant as our personal taste preferences. There is no biological need to eat meat. The ONLY reason 99% of Americans do it is because they like the taste.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:45 pm | Reply
    • Primal 4 Life

      Outright lie. You prove yourself to be a fool. Science has proven with, absolute certainty, humans were designed to eat animal products, and thrive as a result.

      You don't want them fine, don't eat them. That is were your contribution to the matter ends, period. You have no right whatsoever to decide that for any other human on the planet. You have nothing to say that matters on the subject, end of story.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:48 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        What is an outright lie? That humans don't need meat?

        July 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Reply
        • Primal 4 Life

          That is correct. For optimum health and vitality humans need properly raised animal products, period. A vegan/vegetarian must supplement in some way. Can;t be done any other way. I never have to do that and never will.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:51 pm |
        • Mike

          Ok well the American Dietic Association disagrees. But I'm sure you know best.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:54 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          LMAO the ADA. Conventional wisdom has us in the obesity epidemic we find out nation in.
          I don't need anyone from the government to tell me anything. People who do, well how sad.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
        • Mike

          So the ADA (now the AND) is not only wrong, but responsible for the obesity epidemic despite constantly advocating for healthier lifestyles in which Americans consume less meat? Also, just fyi, they aren't a governmental organization. You must be from the deep south.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:02 pm |
      • Tom

        Actually, humans are endowed with a significantly long intestinal track, which indicates that we evolved to eat plant matter. Prey animals, such as lions have relatively short digestive tracks so they can quickly move the meat through their system. This prevents the meat from decomposing in the colon.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
    • PF

      @ Mike

      So how far do you take this need to prevent animal suffering? If you could force all carnivores and omnivores on earth to eat nothing but fruits, vegetables, and grass would you do it? Is the pain that the antelope feels when the lion clamps down on it's throat a pain you feel you should prevent if you had the means to do so?

      July 3, 2012 at 3:08 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        If I could force people to become vegatarian, yes, I would. Regarding your second question, no, I would not prevent that.

        July 3, 2012 at 3:14 pm | Reply
        • PF

          I was refering to all carnivores/omnivores in both questions. So animal suffering only matters if it is a result of human action? If that's the case, then it isn't the suffering itself that matters. So the argument really isn't "vegetarianism/veganism should be adopted by all to prevent animal suffering" but rather "vegetarianism/veganism should be adopted by all because I don't like it when people do what other organisms have been doing since the dawn of time".

          July 3, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
    • greg

      You seem unable to distinguish between your own (deservedly humble) opinion and what you seem to think are ethical facts. Your arguments are facile, fatuous, and dare I say it? – bloodless. That's a fine joke which I'm sure is wasted on you. As a recent hunter who took up the pursuit for specifically ethical reasons (I purely hate to kill any animal ((except for certain humans)), and had to work hard to get past it), I very much appreciated this author's experience.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:13 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        Rather than simply throwing out impressive sounding adjectives, how about you actually attempt to address the merits of what I am saying?

        July 3, 2012 at 3:15 pm | Reply
        • greg

          Ok Mike, There's great merit in stressing the ethical dimension of our interaction with the other animals that inhabit this planet. That's where the complexity begins. I called your arguments facile (superficial) and fatuous (silly, without substance) because they consistently ignore this complexity. To wit: we as human animals have been hunting and eating other animals for hundreds of thousands of years (and millions more going back to our hominid ancestors); the natural world of which we are a part is and ever has been teeming with predator/prey relationships; and while these facts don't make an ethical argument, they have meaning and weight. Our existence is a vale of tears, Mike, and my response to this condition is – good luck and good hunting!

          July 3, 2012 at 4:14 pm |
    • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

      Mike you’re just embarrassing yourself.

      July 3, 2012 at 3:20 pm | Reply
    • Lukewarm

      @Mike where I am from our main wildlife is deer due to farmers killing off most of their natural preditors. Our winters get very long and harsh. Some years the herds are small so hunters are allowed only 1 kill, but during years when the deer are overpopulated there is no restriction on how many kills you can have. The main reason is more deer will suffer and die slowly from starvation when overpopulated then if they were not. We are preditors just like the wolves and it is our part in the ecosystem to keep the populations of certain species down so as to not cause more harm.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
      • Tom

        Lukewarm, you are not God! You act as if nature could not exist without the interference of man. You really believe that your hunting is reducing suffering and makes nature a less cruel world? That's a tad arrogant. You think becuase you hunt you are one with the wolves? Do you kill with you teech and claws too? No, you use manufactured weapons and then then you drive your Truck or SUV back to your home that is hooked up to the grid. If you hund for sport, then say you hunt for sport. Don't try to convince yourself that you are doing nature a favor.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:19 pm | Reply
    • Peteyroo

      Murder 4 Life, absolute nonsense. You murder/hunt for pleasure because very few animals fight back and, in any case, you have the gun. If you weren't such a coward, you'd hunt other hunters. Where's your sense of fair play? You do what is easy and safe.

      July 3, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Reply
      • Tom, Tom, The Piper's Son

        If you drive a car, you’re a hypocrite.

        July 5, 2012 at 11:21 am | Reply
  36. mike k.

    Hunting looks like a lot of hard work to me.

    now, for the "avid hunter vs. vegan" debate– let me settle it for you. Neither camp is totally right, and, more importantly, neither camp's attitude comes close to being tolerable. If I saw either of you in the bar, I would stare at my beer until you went away.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:43 pm | Reply
  37. greg

    Mike, you cause suffering to sentient beings every time you post one of your stupid comments

    July 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      No one forces you to read them!

      July 3, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply
    • Primal 4 Life

      I know right. It's quit painful when dolts act as if they have any intelligence at all. It is fun to laugh at them though.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:42 pm | Reply
  38. Primal 4 Life

    I love articles like these. It is so much fun laughing at all the misguided vegetarians and vegans spout of about their superiority when nothing could be further from the truth.

    I am so glad I will NEVER have to implement any of their nonsense while being far healthier than they will ever be.

    Bring it on wimps, you got nothing!

    July 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      Wimps? Wow, aren't you the brave keyboard warrior......

      July 3, 2012 at 2:24 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      Do you have any insight you would like to offer?

      July 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        You don't, so why should anyone accommodate you?

        July 3, 2012 at 2:33 pm | Reply
    • lena

      The only way for you to know if you are that HEALTHY, is to find a vagan who doesn't eat only processed food, go to the doctor and compare your tests with his. Check for coagulation of blood; enzyme deficiency; check how the kidney, liver, heart and other organs work; check how clean is your interstine and blood; the level of cholesterol; how good your white cells are.... this might change your opinion about your health. I can't figure out how can you know that you are very healthy.... Our doctors always compare us and set norms by comparing people who are on the death bed and meat-eaters (i don't think they checked the vegans yet and see if there is more room for being healthier)

      July 3, 2012 at 2:36 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        I have all my blood work done regularly. Since adopting the Primal Blueprint I have never been healthier and I have all the tests and my doctors 100% approval to prove it.

        I'll never eat any other way ever again.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:30 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      Primal: You sure talk big, little fella

      July 3, 2012 at 2:37 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        Yeah as if you are some big tough guy. You couldn't take me in your dreams little peon.

        July 3, 2012 at 2:41 pm | Reply
        • sam stone

          And you know this how?

          July 3, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
        • sam stone

          Also, Primal, I am not claiming to be a big tough guy. I am a middle aged accountant. What is your point? Do you just like to bloviate your superiority online? Make you feel like a "big tough guy"? Here is a suggestion: Go F yourself.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          Same way you think you know genius.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
        • sam stone

          Primal: You really are an imbecile.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:45 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          You are the one who replied. You are the instigator. I simply finish the job you started peon.

          NEXT!!!!

          July 3, 2012 at 2:46 pm |
        • sam stone

          You are nothing but a loudmouth.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:47 pm |
        • sam stone

          Actually, since it was your comment initially, you are the instigator. Go home and get your shinebox, boy

          July 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          LMAO whatever loser. You got nothing on me and never will.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
        • sam stone

          Primal: You are still talking like a mouthy little b!tch.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
      • Primal 4 Life

        And you are nothing at all.

        NEXT!!!

        July 3, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Reply
    • hecep

      You seem to be looking for a fight P4. Why is that?

      July 3, 2012 at 3:03 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        Nope not looking, however, I back down for nobody, especially some vegan wimp. He wanted some, so I gave it to him.

        July 3, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Reply
  39. Tried It, Didn't Care for It

    Tried a vegan diet for several months as a challenge and it was torture. You would have to be mentally ill, after ever having a normal diet, to be satisfied with that lifestyle. Going back to a normal diet was not at all difficult, nothing changed with my taste buds and I feel better overall mentally and physically. Vegans can claim whatever they want, but in my personal experience a regular diet is better for a happy, healthy life.

    July 3, 2012 at 2:15 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      I have found the exact opposite.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Reply
    • lena

      All the people who were strong enough to stick to the plant-based diet would tell you that there is a big positive difference in health, physical and mental. If you don’t give it a chance, how can you know how much better you can feel even if you think you feel great now? Of course it requires cooking, looking for the right foods, using the imagination to come up with different recipes and to do a lot of research. Telling others that it doesn’t work discourages them to try. Heart problems, diabetes, obesity, cancer and many other diseases come from eating animal protein. Only when a person gets really sick from these diseases, the doctor advises them to stay away from animal products.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:25 pm | Reply
      • Tried It, Didn't Care for It

        If you have to be "strong enough" for it and several months isn't sufficient to reach a conclusion then it certainly doesn't sound like something worth doing. I certainly have no intention of torturing myself for years until I learn to like it. That's masochism and that is a mental illness.

        July 3, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      I been doing it for over 30 years, and the vegetarian, primarily vegan diet is for me.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Reply
      • ONTHunter

        I'm glad that you have found a diet that meets your physical needs and fits your lifestyle. I also have a diet that I am happy with. It consists of a healthy balance of meat products, fruits, vegetables and legumes. I ask that you respect my right to eat meat, as I have respected your right to oppose it.

        July 4, 2012 at 7:53 am | Reply
  40. Cathy

    I am a hunter and agree with your first 3 points. You are not correct, however, about the last two points. There are many individuals and organizations who support conservation without having purchased hunting/fishing equipment or licenses or killed an animal. Our national park system, to name just one non-extractive conservation success, is supported by tax payers and users, the majority of which are non-hunters. I appreciate you developed your appreciation of the outdoors through hunting. I did not however, despite being a hunter for over 40 years. My intense appreciation of the outdoors led to me adding hunting to my many ways to experience and revel in nature, not the other way around and for most of the people I know, that is the case as well. To suggest that you cannot have a full appreciation for the outdoors or vested interest in it unless you are a hunter is also a fallacy. Photographers and cinematographers, non-extractive hunters, have opened our eyes to the beauty and complexity of nature and helped garner support for conservation efforts without ever having killed had to kill a single animal and they do it because of their incredible appreciation for nature. A myriad of environmental organizations work every day to raise money, influence policy and provide critical input to protect and preserve habitats for the benefit of future generations, many at their own expense, without feeling the need to be extractive themselves. It perplexes me that again, someone needs to make a distinction between "us" and "them" when in fact, many of us share the same feelings about nature regardless of how we come about them, and for those that don't, well, they either haven't been fortunate enough to have the chance to do so or, they have other more compelling interests which of course deserve our respect.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Reply
  41. Buck

    Awesome article from a person who took to the time to look beyond their upbringing and see that of another person's. Sorry Mike, but for some people hunting, fishing and trapping is a way of life, or at least a big part of it. I have no problem with people who don't hunt, unless they preach at me not to. I have no interest in changing their point of view and can't understand why some of them are so bent on changing mine.

    Life is short, hunt hard!

    July 3, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      Oh I see, so as long as it's a "way of life," it's ethical. Got it.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Reply
      • ONTHunter

        HAHAHAHA I love the word "ethical". Just because you disagree with something, Mike, doesn't make it ethical or unethical. Its just hunting. Its fine if you don't like it, no one cares if you do or don't.

        July 3, 2012 at 2:15 pm | Reply
        • Mike

          You are correct. It has nothing to do with my opinions. It's unethical because it creates needless suffering for sentient beings.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:20 pm |
        • Tried It, Didn't Care for It

          Whether something is ethical is not based on suffering or sentience. It's based on what society deems to be acceptable. Since society, as a whole, deems hunting to be acceptable, it is not unethical to hunt. You can have your own personal code of ethics, but you seem to think society is required to live by it, which simply isn't the case no matter how much you may wish it to be.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
        • Mike

          So slavery was ethical in the 1860s? Concentration camps were ethical in Nazi Germany? What a ridiculous position.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:34 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          Poor Mike the mental midget. Immediately switching to straw man arguments when he gets put in his place. Too funny.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:36 pm |
        • Mike

          It's not a strawman argument at all. He argued that ethics are determined by the majority. I was pointing out how untenable that position is by examining history. I think you need to look up what a strawman is.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:39 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          100% straw man, period.

          NEXT!!!!!

          July 3, 2012 at 2:40 pm |
        • Mike

          LOL ok. Did you actually care to address the merits of the point or no?

          July 3, 2012 at 2:41 pm |
        • Primal 4 Life

          You are not worth the time or effort.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
        • ONTHunter

          I'm not sure where you came up with this "undue suffering" argument, but again, its entirely factless and purely opinionated. I've shot many deer with my .308, furthest anything ran was 50 yards before it died. Maybe 10 second duration. Controlling animal populations helps reduce the starvation rate of a given species. It also reduces vehicle collisions with wild animals, both of which cause suffering for a longer period than 10 seconds.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:44 pm |
        • ONTHunter

          And to answer your question about slavery and containment camps being "ethical" or not...

          It depends on where you are when you are asking the question. In the southern states during the 1800's, it was entirely ethical to have slaves, yet in the north, it was considered unethical. Same thing with containment camps in germany in the 30's/40's. If you asked a german back then if it was ethical, the answer would be yes. There are many different forms of ethics. There's personal ethics, job/professional ethics, community ethics, social ethics, national ethics, international ethics, cultural ethics...etc. Each one is differing in opinion. So to say something is "unethical" is probably correct, because pretty much anything can violate someone's ethics.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
        • Environmentally-minded Hunter

          "Sentient" is a relative judgement. I can see why you might find deer and ducks sentient, looking from the bottom up and all. As for me, I do not consider them to have reached that level of intelligence.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:53 pm |
        • Tried It, Didn't Care for It

          Mike, the world at large deemed those things unethical, even if Germany or the USA were proponents of them then. Ethics evolve with the whims of society or by virtue of systems we've put in place. Your idea of ethics is obviously different from those of the vast majority of humanity. That's not to say you're not entitled to your own interpretation of what is ethical or not, but when your ethics run contrary to societal ethics, you should have the intellectual honesty to differentiate.

          July 3, 2012 at 3:00 pm |
        • Mike

          Sentience has nothing to do with intelligence...

          July 3, 2012 at 3:17 pm |
    • Primal 4 Life

      Bingo!

      July 3, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Reply
  42. Underoo Jamboree

    Hunting with a gun or arrow isn't natural. If you can't take down an animal with your own hands, it isn't natural. Cooking your meat isn't natural either. If you can't kill the animal with your hands, just rip into it with your teeth without any other prep, it isn't natural.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:38 pm | Reply
    • What?

      Let's see . . .

      Do you wear clothes? Yes – sorry, not "natural".
      Do you cook any of your fruits or vegetables? Yes – sorry, not "natural".
      Do you use 'flour' of any kind for any reason? Yes – sorry, not "natural".

      Do you see a pattern here? How big a hypocrite can you possibly be?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:45 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        I think his point was that hunting isn't natural, therefore those that use the "natural" excuse are illogical. That's not hypocritical at all.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:49 pm | Reply
        • What?

          Read it again, and see if you can really understand it this time.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:54 pm |
        • PF

          No, he's suggesting that hunting with tools is unnatural. Hunting itself is quite natural and is done in a wide variety of different ways by different type of animals. Some can chase and bring down their prey with brute force, others hunt in packs, some use venom, others need to ambush from hiding. We had the mental capacity to make tools. The fact that these tools have evolved over thousands of years doesn't make it any less natural.

          As for cooking as unnatural? Using heat to prepare your food is as unnatural as using water to clean it before you eat it. It's a silly argument.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:06 pm |
        • Really

          @Mike...Are you saying cultivating fruits and vegetables is natural? Natural would mean eating only native plants and/or their fruit as they become edible. Not manipulated plants, cultivated plants, or non-native plants. You do all that and I will yield to your ethical superiority. You would be a gatherer. (Probably not a very healthy person, and prey for any predator you encounter while gathering). Oh, wait, you'd also have to make sure you pass the seeds through your body and deposit them in a place where they could germinate, sprout, and grow the following season.
          I realize that vegans believe plants are not sentient because they do not have a nervous system. It's a convenient way to disconnect from the fact that plants do actually react with their environment, albeit much slower than vertebrates and some invertebrates. Watch a field of sunflowers follow the sun one day, follow the roots of a large tree from year to year as they endeavor to feed the trunk and leaves. Life is life. Dead is dead. To kill a deer is to make it dead. To kill a tomato is to make it dead. For all we know one day we will uncover science that shows plants know pain. I mean, at one time the world was flat and the sun revolved around us. Do you know what a stressed out tomato plant does? It sends forth extra blooms in an effort to get as many fruits grown so that more seeds will be available to sustain future plants.
          We are part of the ecosystem. Whether we manipulate it's plants or animals doesn't change the fact that we have manipulated it. Now, I'm off to eat my lunch of cucumbers and cherries. The freezer is getting low so I have to conserve the meat from the deer and turkey I took last season, and besides cukes and cherries are in season right now.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:32 pm |
        • Ballard

          OK, MIke, let's replace hypocritical with a different word – stupid. Suggesting that hunting with tools is "unnatural" is about the most abjectly stupid comment on this thread. There is nothing "unnatural" about any animal using its brains to improve its chances of catching its quarry. Is it unnatural for Killer Whales to use their brains to work together to herd fish or seals into an ambush site? Is it unnatural for lions to employ similar methods to hunt herds of Impala? If you're going to advance anti-hunting arguments, at least have the good sense to drop the outrageously ridiculous ones.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:56 pm |
    • PF

      Better tell those chimps and bonobos to stop using sticks to collect termites. If they can't get those insects by just tonguing a termite mound then they're not getting their food naturally.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:48 pm | Reply
    • Ally

      Sorry, there are plenty of animals that use tools to hunt their prey. From primates that use leaves and twigs to get ants and termites to arachnids that create webs to bears that use rocks to smash seafood.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Reply
  43. buffalotree

    While I am not a hunter, I am a biologist and I fully support the idea of hunting for food, not for sport. Hunter's are one of the most consistent groups to contribute to conservation measures in the U.S. and I applaud them for that. I am a vegetarian because I do not agree with commercial agricultures practices of raising or slaughtering animals. However, my dad is an active hunter and I am perfectly willing to eat anything that he may hunt. I know he uses as much of the animal as he can and I feel satisfied with his methods. I caution anyone from making such broad generalizations such as hunters are people who kill only for sport or that vegans are ignorant. This is a good article about someones point of view and reasons for choosing their lifestyle. We do not live in a society that could trade commercial agriculture for hunting and gathering, not only because lack of sustainability, but also lack of desire. The average American does not know where their food comes from, so for those hunters who hunt for food and become in tune with nature – great job! For the vegans who educate themselves and want to eat ethically, congratulations. I don't agree with hunting for sport or canned hunts, but I also oppose vegans who live off of junk food, or say that they never kill anything – I'm an organic farmer and as much as I wish it were not the case, I kill bugs (just yesterday I killed potato beetles), and the occasional rodent, mostly by accident with the tractor. I applaud anyone who educates themselves and stands up for what they believe.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:25 pm | Reply
  44. Enough Already

    Genesis 1:26 – And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    Can't wait to see someone take that out of context. Those of you who don't believe in God will write this off, that's fine, believe what you want. But we are meant to live on plants AND animals. The circle of life. Stop judging people and assuming your way is the right one, if you want to live on plants more power to you.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      And here come the bible thumpers. So a few men write a story hundreds of years ago, and that makes meat-eating ethical. Got it.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply
      • PF

        Since eating meat is neither ethical nor unethical, it's a moot point.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:22 pm | Reply
        • Tom

          PF, before using ethical or unethical in your post, you should at least understand the definition. What is your definition of ethical?

          July 3, 2012 at 4:43 pm |
      • Enough Already

        Not a bible thumper Mike, in fact I can't stand those people, they like you, try to shove their views on everyone. I just wanted to confirm a suspicion that you aren't Christian either. You have way more problems than worrying about hunting. Thanks :)

        July 3, 2012 at 1:29 pm | Reply
      • Thinker...

        Speaking as an omnivore, I would say that eating meat is ethical. Now if I was a cow...

        July 3, 2012 at 1:30 pm | Reply
        • Bullitt

          What a silly discussion: the ethics of eating meat. A lion doesn't sit around wondering if it is ethical to kill a zebra; neither does a raccoon wonder if it should kill a crayfish today or just forage for wild strawberries. People can eat meat, in moderation it is no worse for us than anything else, and there are a number of positive benefits of meat eating. Nothing else in nature questions whether the food that sustains it, is the "ethical" choice. We eat to live, everything eats to live, and sometimes things die so that other things may eat them and live.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:47 pm |
    • Really?

      Does dominion mean eating them? How animals are raised for food now is different from how it was thousands of years ago. Nothing in the way commercial farms are being ran can be considered ethical or humane. Try visiting one of them and see for yourself.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:55 pm | Reply
    • Down by the river

      The "dominion" thing was a bad translation. It was suppossed to mean 'keeper of the garden' but "dominion" sounded better to King James I guess.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:14 pm | Reply
  45. wildone

    Just for the record, I killed an 8 point buck with a fiberglass arrow tipped with a Montec G5 broadhead at 33 yards out of my Martin Cheetah compound bow last fall. I spent a good 15-20 minutes preparing for a perfect chest shot. After releasing my arrow and seeing the buck take off, I went back to the house, had a cup of coffee, and waited an hour. When I went back to the spot where I saw him last, there was blood on the ground and he was lying 15 yards away. Dead. The arrow was a complete pass-through. I immediately gutted him and put him on my 4 wheeler to take home. I let him bleed out and that evening I took him to my professional butcher who processed him and returned the meat 3 days later. Cut and wrapped. I had a years worth of meat and an experience that those who call hunting "barbaric" will never understand or relate to. I pity people who do not have the ability or stones to provide for themselves beyond eating grass and leaves.

    July 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      I pity you for many reasons.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Reply
      • wildone

        I don't need or want your pity. Just leave me the hell alone.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:16 pm | Reply
      • Ryan

        Yours is the condescending pity of the self-righteous looking down on those he considers beneath him. Yours is the pity of the white man looking down on the tribes of the plains and their "barbaric" ways, right before he destroyed them in his ignorance. That's the folly of man I guess, we blame those for precisely the wrongs we are most guilty of ourselves. You claim hunters are ignorant. Find a mirror.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:32 pm | Reply
        • Mike

          Please explain how I am ignorant.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:35 pm |
        • What?

          @ Mike

          Every single one of your replies on this topic sends the message that you and your 'opinions' are "right" and that everybody who doesn't think like you do, or believe what you believe, is "wrong" – and inferior, as well. That stance is arrogant, pompous, self-aggrandizing, and . . . just plain ignorant. There's your explanation.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
        • Ryan

          In response to Mike's, "Please explain how I am ignorant".

          Your personal ethics are just that Mike, yours, they are not universal however hard you might wish they were. When people, however well-meaning, believe they know how another person should live better than that person, bad things often happen. You are ignorant because you only allow yourself to see the virtues in yourself and the failings of others, at least using your posts here as a measure. I have nothing against vegans. I have a great deal against narrow-minded, absolutist, extremists.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:53 pm |
        • Mike

          So in other words, neither one of you know what the word "ignorant" means.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:03 pm |
        • What?

          @ Mike

          I know perfectly well what it means. I also know that if you are "lacking in knowledge" to the point that you don't know that your opinions and beliefs aren't the only 'right' ones, then you, sir, are "ignorant".

          July 3, 2012 at 2:13 pm |
        • blacklabelbrad

          @Mike

          You are ignorant because you look down on others for killing animals for meat, yet you don't seem to understand that even as a vegan you are responsible for the deaths of many animals. Do you have any idea what modern agricultural practices do to animals? As a grain and oilseed farmer I've seen many, many animals killed during harvest alone. Unless you consume only organic homegrown fruit and vegetables you too have blood on your hands. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones...

          July 3, 2012 at 2:17 pm |
        • Ryan

          "Mike

          So in other words, neither one of you know what the word "ignorant" means."

          Well, I was going to go into greater detail about how you are ignorant but you kinda beat me to the punch with that last comment. I mean, dang Mike, that's a pretty ignorant thing to say!

          July 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm |
      • Primal 4 Life

        LMAO nobody needs, or wants, pity from a loser like you.

        July 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Reply
    • Orion307

      We can try and justify our "pure" way of life all we want wildone. I for actually take solice in the fact that not everyone believes in what we do or how we live. That way if and when the day comes that we have to actually survive say a collapse in society we will survive. Happy Hunting

      July 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Reply
      • wildone

        Thanks, Brother.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Reply
    • ekwinne

      In response to eating leaves and grass, I'll assure you I do none of that. It can be reasoned that the invention of agriculture, of mass producing grains and vegetables, actually led to the greatest growth in human population ever. Period. This is ultimately what transitioned us from hunter-gatherers to how we are today. Without the incessant need to forage and hunt for food, we could focus on improving other facets of life. If you'd like to revert back to solely hunting, be my guest. But do not question the intelligence or thriftiness of those that brought you modernism :P I think we did just fine for ourselves.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      wildone: i am a vegetarian. i know many hunters and i got no problem with them at all. i know i cannot understand your adrenaline rush from the perfectly placed shot, but i imagine it would be similar to what i get when i do my sports (skydiving and trail running).

      as far as not having the "not having the ability or the stones to provide for themselves beyond eating grass and leaves, well, that's just dumb

      July 3, 2012 at 1:39 pm | Reply
    • vet4life63

      Why do you need all of the fancy equipment? "a fiberglass arrow tipped with a Montec G5 broadhead: and a "Martin Cheetah compound bow:. I use a Atlatl. It's a spear that is slung at the deer, sort of a "sling spear". Effective. Made 100% by me, from all natural materials. ala, native American. It has taken several deer. I didn't leisurely go in and drink coffee etc after hitting the buck. I immediately track, and dispatch the animal if needed. I do not sip coffee allowing the animal to suffer along until I deem its time to finish it, or it bleeds out. If you hunt for food as I do, you practice, you minimize suffering as much as possible. I never take mine to the packer to do the dirty work. I dress it myself, and package it myself. Nothing is wasted this way. Invest a little effort please.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:41 pm | Reply
      • ekwinne

        I'm a vegetarian, and even I have to commend you on this. If you have to eat meat, at least give the animal the utmost respect you can. You are taking the most important and precious thing from them- and placing your life above theirs- and if you're willing to take that which is not owed to you, at least have the humility to do it the right way.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Reply
      • Ryan

        I respect your technique and dedication man, but everyone does this thang a little differently. Many hunters don't chase their prey immediately because it's the chase, not the initial wound, that releases adrenaline into the blood and makes the meat gamey, not to mention causing greater stress to the animal. Many hunters believe that a wounded deer will eventually lay down rather than run, making the tracking easier. Shoot, if the animal does not go down immediately, track 2-4 hours later, if there will be enough light and predators are not a concern. Just a thought, I actually track immediately too. Good hunting!

        July 3, 2012 at 2:18 pm | Reply
      • ONTHunter

        Immediately tracking an animal is reckless. When a deer is shot they take off running for the woods, where they search for cover. The will usually pick the nearest ditch, creek, bush or tree. If you immediately start tracking the animal, you risk pushing them further and further into the bush. This stresses out the animal, and causes it to release excess hormones which can and will spoil the meat. So, by letting the animal crawl under a tree and die peacefully, you increase your chances of recovering the animal, you save the meat, and you don't cause the animal undue stress.

        Some people can't use spears for legal or physical reasons. Good on you for using one though, much respect!

        July 3, 2012 at 2:26 pm | Reply
    • Sasquatch

      No need to prove anything. You did that just fine by yourself...

      July 3, 2012 at 1:43 pm | Reply
  46. JTV

    The ignorance or the "vegan" and the animal rights dupes is simply amazing...wildlife exists because of the conservation efforts of hunters,fishermen and trappers....I do all three and for the 4th my family will be eating venison and Elk steaks and burgers....you vegans can go chew on a piece of tofu...

    July 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      We've seen this argument a lot today, and it makes no sense. You can do a lot for the environment and be a conservationist without being a hunter.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      jtv: shove your venison up your rectum

      July 3, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Reply
    • dingo

      I love hunting accidents– There are more people who prefer their wild life alive then dead, stuffed and hanging on the wall– iF HUNTING IS SO ETHICAL PUT YOUR MOTHER IN THE PASTURE AND I WILL TRY TO MAKE IT A CLEAN SHOT. Then we will feed on her for a year and feel like a true conservationist because we killed our own. Ha ha see how ridiculous that argument sounds. Hunting sucks, so does factory farming nothing is ethical about killing period.. You want to be ethical stop killing animals period and go Vegan. if not than you are just blowing wind out your crusty carcass caked tail pipe.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:45 pm | Reply
      • ONTHunter

        The vegans always claim that their way is the only ethical way...yet animals are exploited for what vegans eat as well. What do you think fertilizer is?? So by buying vegetables, you are funding the ownership, captivity, and commercialization of animals in order for you to feel better about yourself. What about the millions and millions of acres of forest that have been destroyed to allow the pumping of oil? That same oil is used to create the little plastic containers your spinach and tofu comes in.

        I have nothing against the vegan diet, if it works for you, then good on ya. But don't spout some pointless drivel about how your diet is somehow impacting the earth less, and how your diet doesn't harm animals. Everything we do on this planet has an effect on animals. Just our existence is the greatest effect of all. Population control on wild animals is our way of preventing death by starvation, malnutrition, and predation. The forest is only so big...it can only sustain a certain number of deer for so long.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply
      • Farenth

        you do realize that due to human interference in the enviroment simply not hunting would lead to wild overpopulation in some animal species right? natures solution to overpopulation is mass disease and starvation. hunting keeps animal populations at safe levels as determermined by professionals, sounds much more friendly to me.

        July 3, 2012 at 4:38 pm | Reply
  47. Philip A. C.

    Well said, and right to the point.

    Most of the negative comments come from people who think of themselves as conservationists, but have actually very lit knowledge about wildlife, conservation, and reality in the outdoors.

    I manage and conserve wildlife on several million acres in Africa, have spent obscene amounts of my own money in the silly venture, and inordinate amounts of time in the bush in close contact with wildlife and its nemesis – local rural communities.

    And I hunt.

    I've never encountered one single "greenie" out there DOING something useful where it counts, or achieving any meaningful result in conservation.

    But I have met scores of hunters who spend money, time, and efforts towards reintroducing species and conserving existing ones. Actually, like it or not, without the hunting industry and hunters, there would be very little wildlife left in Africa – and in many other places.

    Once again, well said!

    July 3, 2012 at 1:03 pm | Reply
    • Mike

      Right, because to protect wildlife, you HAVE to be a hunter. Can we please get at least one intelligent pro-hunting argument on this board?

      July 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Reply
      • Jeff

        Facts are that hunters spend more money to directly support wildlife than any other group. The article does not mean that we'd keep eating as much meat, just that hunted meat, if you will, is environmenatlly more friendly than meat from large scale animal-culture farms. In Michigan my family has eaten as many as five deer in one year, which was too much. We can incorporate 1-2 easily into our diet, and buy less beef, pork and poultry.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:15 pm | Reply
  48. ekwinne

    I don't understand all the backlash from being a vegetarian. Since when should it be a bad thing that we do not wish to kill animals, and would like less of that to occur? It's a healthier lifestyle and a more ethical approach to getting food on your table. When you try to disparage those that try to promote a more conscientious and compassionate way of viewing the world, you only reflect on yourself...

    July 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Reply
    • PF

      The backlash comes from vegetarians and vegans pretty much telling people that they're jerks for eating meat. Killing an animal for food is neither ethical nor unethical. Causing pain for the sake of causing pain is a different story, but that's not what we're talking about. Eating meat has nothing to do with ethics or morals, it's just a fact of life. If you chose not to eat meat, that's fine. Just don't try to judge people who do.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:35 pm | Reply
      • sam stone

        pf: nothing like painting a group with a broad brush. here is a hint.....most of us don't give a damn what you eat.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:45 pm | Reply
      • ekwinne

        It's two-sided really. I can tell you as a vegetarian I receive much more flack from society than meat-eaters do. We have to explain and defend ourselves much more. I can understand you hating PETA-lovers who call you vindictive, sadistic...etc...but I'm simply talking about those who scoff or laugh at vegetarians for no reason. I see no harm in my lifestyle, and I see no harm in promoting it so long as I don't call into question your character. When it comes down to it, I only ask myself and others that if we can live well off a plant-based diet, why would we choose to kill those that can feel pain as we do?

        July 3, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Reply
      • PF

        He asked where the backlash comes from. Perhaps I could have worded it differently, but I feel like it's pretty obvious that not all vegetarians/vegans feel the same way. Unfortunately, the majority of the ones who post comments on articles like this tend to be the ones that have a problem with anyone killing animals for food and are vocal about it. If you're a "live and let live" type of person then that's great, but in here you're probably in the minority.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:57 pm | Reply
      • sam stone

        I don't think that the "live and let live" are in the minority in real life, or on these forums. On the other hand, I have been doing this for most of my long life, and I am not all fanatic about it as some new veggies

        July 3, 2012 at 2:32 pm | Reply
        • PF

          sam stone @ jtv: shove your venison up your rectum July 3, 2012 at 1:42 pm

          July 3, 2012 at 2:55 pm |
    • ONTHunter

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a vegetarian or vegan, that is your choice. Just as it is my choice to hunt and eat wild game.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:42 pm | Reply
      • sam stone

        Absolutely correct. Go out and hunt and have fun. Be safe.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:46 pm | Reply
      • Primal 4 Life

        I have no problem with it either, until their holier than thou attitudes are shown. I won't tolerate that for any amount of time.

        Be a vegan and keep your ignorant pie hole shut about it. Those of us who know better want nothing to do with that lifestyle, just as you want nothing to do with ours. I won't make you join me, YOU WILL NOT MAKE ME JOIN YOU!

        July 3, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply
        • ekwinne

          And I have no problem with meat eaters, as I am dating one for 3 years. I do have a problem with your tone and judgments, though. You are exactly the type of person I was referencing when I asked why people have such an adverse reaction to the *thought* of vegetarianism or humble vegetarians themselves. When you say you and other people know better than to partake in my lifestyle, and to shut my pie-hole, you're presuming that your lifestyle is better than mine- something you call out the vegetarians for when they try to reason about the health benefits. Hypocrisy has never, and will never be, a desireable trait. Do everyone a favor and quiet down. You've shown you're incapable of carrying out a decent and adult conversation.

          No one has even attempted to answer my other question, though. If one has the option of limiting suffering, pain, and death to harmless animals, why would they not choose this?

          July 5, 2012 at 9:46 am |
  49. wildone

    I wonder how some of the people here would have upheld their anti-meat beliefs if they had been members of the Donner Party, or survivors of a plane crash in the Andes Mountains. They would probably be the first to say "Let's eat Billy".

    July 3, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      gosh, that is a dumb comment.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Reply
  50. Mike

    This author has absolutely no concept of scale. Americans right now eat about 250 pounds of meat every year. Let's just say that everyone hunts for their meat and that everyone hunts deer. If the average whitetail yields 40-45 pounds of meat, Americans would have to kill 1.875 billion deer to fuel their meat consumption. There an estimated 20 million deer living in the US right now. There is simply no way that hunting could even come remotely close to providing meat at current consumption levels. Even if it could, can you imagine the destruction on forests if everyone went out and hunted their own food. What a ridiculous article. If you want to solution to ethical eating, stop eating meat.

    July 3, 2012 at 12:55 pm | Reply
    • wildone

      Eat me.

      July 3, 2012 at 12:57 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        No thanks, I'm vegan.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm | Reply
        • Snorlax@mike

          Then eat my shorts.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:52 pm |
      • Jeff

        white or dark meat?

        July 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Reply
    • erawpd

      Agreed. I have much respect for non-sport hunters and don't begrudge them at all. But to suggest or even ponder we all take up that stance is ridiculous. Reducing our meat consumption and thereby reducing our need for commercial farms is the only answer.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:07 pm | Reply
    • sam stone

      if people had to kill their own meat, meat consumption would decrease significantly

      July 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm | Reply
    • Mark

      Where does the author say that everyone needs to go out and hunt their own meat? It's a lifestyle choice and she is pointing out how it is a logical and acceptable one. I see nowhere that she criticizes anyone who chooses to buy their meat or avoid meat altogether. She is simply revealing her story of a lifestyle she discovered and felt it was important enough to share. I applaud her and agree with her whole-heartedly, as I live the same lifestyle. If you don't, that is fine too.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        The clear implication is that those who buy factory-farmed meat are making an unethical choice. Her suggestion to correct that is wholly implausible.

        July 3, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Reply
        • Mark

          In her opinion it is. In your opinion it's not. The difference is she doesn't outright criticize you as you do her. That and, again, she does not suggest everyone go out and do it. She is not offering up a solution, just an alternative.

          July 3, 2012 at 1:38 pm |
        • Mike

          But it's not a viable alternative based on current demand. That's my point.

          July 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm |
    • ONTHunter

      You get a heck of a lot more than 45lbs of meat from a deer. I shot a doe last year that weighed 140lbs, 90lbs of meat went in the freezer.

      You comment is solely based on if people only hunted deer, however there are many other wild animals that can be consumed. I hunt ducks as well, and probably eat 10-15 a year. I also hunt rabbits, again about 10-15 a year. There's also bears, grouse, squirrels, moose, elk, antelope, mule deer, sheep, plus FISHING!

      I know several people who only eat wild meat, and with only taking 1 deer, 1 bear, and 1 moose annually, they are able to have surplus meat and are able to donate to local food banks.

      July 3, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        If you got 90 pounds out of a doe, you are eating more than just the meat.

        July 3, 2012 at 2:04 pm | Reply
        • ONTHunter

          Not sure what does you have seen, but up here in Ontario, a 140lb doe is about average. Bucks approaching 300lbs are common, average being in the 225-250lb range.

          Thats a heck of a lot more than 45lbs that you used for your "math".

          July 3, 2012 at 2:29 pm |
        • Reality

          You're taking your limited knowledge and applying it to all deer. That one deer that you saw behind Starbucks isn't the only one (or type – gasp) of deer in the country or world.

          July 3, 2012 at 4:36 pm |
    • BD

      Hyperbole, theres nothing quite like it.

      Its somewhat absurd to think the author is suggesting that deer, elk, etc be the only source of meat in America and that it be obtained via hunting. The author IS indicating however that its a viable alternative and that an approach like that to other animals and our food supply in general is a positive step enviromentally. The same logic might also be applied to raising domesticated animals as an example, if you raise cattle yourself you know how they were fed and treated.

      The issue of eating meating is neither moral or ethical, its something intended by biology and evolution (please don't bust out the invisible benevolent man in the sky), if you don't like it have your eye teeth pulled.

      Most predatory animals (which can for the sake of my point be simply defined as those with teeth inteded for eating meat) treat their prety far worse than humans do. Try watching a shark attack a seal, yes its gruesome and the animal suffers greatly, but I don't think the stuanchest enviromentalist can seriously suggest that its somehow immoral or unethical. Any difference is entirely due to the human brains ability to anthropomorphize.

      July 3, 2012 at 2:11 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        No, the difference is that humans have no dietary need to be predators and humans are uniquely capable of recognizing suffering and adopting a moral code. If you want to live by the law of the jungle, then fine, let me steal from you, commit violent acts towards you, rape your family members, etc. The fact is, humans demand something more. We aren't sharks.

        July 3, 2012 at 3:12 pm | Reply
        • Thatguy

          @Mike, you say that humans have no dietary need to be predators? Then why do you vegans need to supplement their diets. Even on the Vegetarian Voice website it lists 5 nutrients that the vegan diet lacks. 1. Protein 2. Iron 3. Zinc 4. Calcium 5. B-12. Follow the link and learn: http://www.vegetarianvoice.com/vegetarian-nutrition/7/five-nutrients-vegetarian-diets-lack/

          July 3, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
        • PF

          Humans do have a dietary need for the nutrients found in meat. Just because we have developed ways to get those nutrients through supplementation doesn't make the original (natural) way the "law of the jungle". We're talking about basic nutritional needs here, so throwing theft, rape, etc. into the mix is going off topic.

          Additionally, you've already pretty much said that it isn't the suffering of the animal that bothers you (since you wouldn't stop a lion from eating an antelope), it's just the fact that you don't like it when humans do it.

          July 3, 2012 at 4:11 pm |
        • Tom

          PF, It is entirely possible to obtain the same nutrients from plant based sources so there is no natural need to kill another animal. There are some animals that have evolved to be prey animals, but humans have not evolved to be prey animals. Consuming meat is a preference not a need.

          July 3, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
        • AJ

          Tom, no it's not. The biggie that comes to mind is B-12, which comes from animal products only!

          July 3, 2012 at 7:19 pm |
        • ONTHunter

          @Mike....Feel free to try and steal from me, or harm my family. You will be met with the most primal instinct of all...The fight reaction, and guaranteed I am better armed than you :).

          July 4, 2012 at 8:01 am |
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