 Our sister site HLN reports that a Houston, Texas family claims they were locked inside La Fisherman restaurant after refusing to pay a 17 percent tip on their meal. The restaurant's policy states that the percentage will be automatically added to the tab for parties of five or more. Customer Jasmine Marks told Click2Houston.com that the staff was rude, the drinks weren't refilled and her group received generally poor service. Marks asked if she could speak to a manager to have the auto-gratuity stripped from the bill, but claims the staff locked the doors and told her that her options were to pay the 17 percent or speak with the police outside. Automatic tips, or "autograts" as they're sometimes called, are often used by restaurants to ensure that their staff is fairly compensated for the greater amount of effort it takes to tend to larger parties. The server will sometimes have a larger table as their sole focus for the duration of the meal, and won't be making tips from any other tables. This tip, which is generally clearly stated on a menu, or when making a reservation for a larger group, ensures that a server will be compensated for their time and not miss out on earning money for that shift. Often, the tip is shared with other members of the floor staff, like bussers and bartenders. Having a stated policy in place - usually 18 percent of the pre-tax amount - can eliminate awkwardness and confusion over tipping etiquette, especially if you're dining with business colleagues or people you don't know especially well. On the flip side, patrons sometimes feel they're being tricked into tipping more (especially if the server hasn't pointed out that the gratuity was already included) or discriminated against if the auto-grat isn't always applied. And servers, while they're ensured a base tip, run the risk of earning a lower tip than they would have if diners had been able to decide on the percentage, themselves. Our tip: always check the restaurant's policy when you're dining with a large group, and be sure to pore over the bill at the end. Weigh in on the auto-grat in the comments below, and we'll share our favorites from both sides of the table in an upcoming post. |
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TIPS = To Insure Proper Service. Tips are to give diners the choice to reward good service. The very point of a tip is lost if it is mandatory! If you have to pay it, it is a Tax, not a tip.
Mandatory Gratuity is an Oxymoron. If it's Mandatory, it's not a Gratuity. If it's a Gratuity, it's not mandatory. Don't people even understand English these days.
Restaurants should have to price the meal properly to pay their expenses and make money.
Is it possible that the problem stems from the odd system that we have in the United States, where restaurants underpay the servers and expect diners to make up the difference? What if I were to go into Macy's to buy a suit that's really worth $200, but be charged only $150 with the "expectation" that I give the salesperson an extra $50 to cover his/her salary? That places me and the salesperson in uncomfortable positions since he/she is inappropriately dependent on my good will and I'm expected to be magnanimous. What if restaurants were to pay servers a living wage (whatever that is; I leave that to economists), those extra costs were built into the menu prices, and patrons tipped (relatively modest amounts) only for truly exceptional out-of-this-world service? And servers who weren't cutting the mustard, service-wise, were fired? This way, diners know exactly what their meal will cost, servers know how much they will make for a shift and the social equality is less unbalanced. This is the European model and seems to work well.
I agree! I always tip, even when the service is awful and I'll tip very well when the service is good (or when I've had special requests) but I HATE the whole tipping system. I wish we used the European model. Since we don't, I don't want to punish the servers who have to make a living - but really, if we are EXPECTED to give a tip, then it is really isn't a tip. It is a service charge and should at least be labelled as such.
I work in a resturant that delivers and has a buffet 6 days a week as well as a full menu. I have seen a party of 2 tip a waitress 75.00 because she had been verbally assaulted by another customer to the point where Police were called. I have seen large groups of college athletes come in 20 minutes before close, trash the entire lobby, order over $400 in food and complain that the service sucked because there were only 2 servers to handle the entire party. I have delivered food to factories for company parties and been told that, even though the total on the ticket was over $150, that I was not getting a tip because the now hiring ad in the paper says up to $15 an hour which is more than they pay their own employees. Needless to say I have seen the good, bad, and ugly side of the buisness. Most people do tip, but it is generally a small number and most servers are happy with what they get becuase we all need the money for whatever reason, but for someone to refuse to accept the autograt that is usually CLEARLY POSTED ON THE DOOR OR IN THE MENU OR BOTH is a slap in the face. I tip my servers when I go out with my family. The better the service, the better the tip. If I have food delivered, I tip the driver because I know that even if the driver is getting reimbursed for his gas every 2 weeks, he/she still makes minimum wage or less and has to pay vehicle expenses out of pocket. Most drivers work for places that DO NOT pay for brakes, Tires, oil changes and the like. But out of all the customers that really annoy every single employee I work with are the "Holy Rollers" on Wednesday nights and Sunday mornings. They come in en masse, wreck the lobby, let the 18 kids under 13 that are always present run wild, complain about the heat/AC, the sports on TV (cause Little Ricky isn't allowed to watch NFL because it's too violent) and then try to apologize after having the server split the check into 20+ seperate tickets to avoid the mandatory 15% we autograt parties of 8 or more. And on top of all that, they leave 3-4 dollars on the table usually in loose change and tell the server they would have tipped more but that was all the cash they had left after the offering that day when there is a place on their debit card slip to write in a tip. I have a serious problem with anyone trying to use the bible as their basis for failing to do what is considered the appropriate social custom. Have someone else prepare your meal, have someone else serve you your meal, have someone else clean up after you are finished with your meal and not kick them something, but give a church 20-30 dollars a week so they can have a new sound system, hd camera and screen, pay for a newly designed website, new stained glass, a brand new gold plated crucifix above the altar???I think I must have missed the verse in the bible that says that that is acceptable.
I have no problem with an autotip policy that is clearly posted. The only time I would object is if the service was unjustifiably bad. If the establishment insisted I pay despite the bad service, I would pay, but then I'd file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau then write in my blog or my Facebook page about what I encountered in that establishment.
I don't like the automatic tip.
Because TIPS (To Insure Personal Service) is a reward for anything above-and-beyond the bare minimum of service.
Because Restaurants hire and pay the Waiters, and have a written contract that Diners do not have, and Restaurants may be forcing diners to reward a restaurant that pays sub-minimum wage wage or give low hours – Restaurants should pay waiters & buses at least Minimum, living Wage, not the Diner.
Finally, when the Diner pays the bill, they already pay 3x or more food cost for the privilege of eating at Le Gastronomique, in which 1/3 pays for the labor. An automatic tip is redundant payment for the labor.
Flip-side, as for the point that a waiter serves a large party at cost to other parties, a large party is a much larger bill and a much larger tip, earned with less energy than multiple tables. If the large party stiffs the waiter, that is also more devastating. But just recommending a percentage for large parties goes a long way to remedying the issue. And having worked at a Hotel banquet staff, I know that Waiters by seniority gets the larger tables at events, and in San Jose, a senior waiter makes about $70,000/year. And this hotel had automatic tips for large parties. And waiters are still motivated to give superior service so the table tips extra, a tip upon a tip.
It’s obvious from several posts, that some of you have never been on both sides of the fence – I have. I have been a server and there are a few actual facts you should know.
Did you know that most, if not all servers in the country work for $2.13 an hour plus tips? If they don’t make minimum wage in an hour (with tips), then the restaurant is required to augment their pay to reach the minimum wage.
And for that paltry sum, we have to:
- Put up with customers that can’t seem to get off their cell phone to actually order and just leave us standing there waiting, like we’re invisible.
- Put up with your kids asking for refills on their drinks about 50 times, and then of course something to play with or color with because God forbid you would take care of your own children while you’re here, nope – we’re responsible for that also.
- Having you order your meal with this, without that, with this on the side, extra that. Good grief, if you don’t want or like it the way it comes, then why are you at THIS restaurant?
- Have you complain that you have “decided” you don’t like what you ordered. I didn’t know it came with onions—can you read? The menu clearly states what is in each dish we carry. That’s sort of like going to Mom’s for Sunday dinner and sending back your plate—you wouldn’t do it to Mom, why do you do it to us?
- Since drinks are free refills, you chug down your drink like you just got off the Sahara and want us to refill it at least as many times as we filled your kids.
- If we sell chips/salsa—then that’s another 10 trips to keep refilling that basket.
- And then of course we have to get your final bill, make trips for those to go containers, process your payment and THEN clean up all the chips, straws, napkins, etc., that you and your lovely kids left everywhere (including the floor and under the table).
And all that for $2.13 an hour. No wonder we might be grumpy, we've served 10 families just like yours before you walked in the door.
We deserve every penny of that “autograft” and more. There are a lot of extremely “stingy” diners out there who do not want to pay for the service we provide. No problem—go to a cafeteria where you get your own food/drinks, clean up after yourself and refill your own chip basket. But if you come to a restaurant where you have an individual server, then treat them like a person, not like a doormat and then reward them as such. While you may actually think your server was lousy – news for you – a lousy server usually means you were a lousy, demanding, rude guest. They go hand-in-hand.
And for those of you who penalize your server with a lower tip because the restaurant they happen to work at “autografts.” Shame on you—it’s not the servers fault. You’re punishing the server for someone else’s policy. And this is why “autografts” exist. You have diners that come in with a bad attitude, bad mood, spouse yelled at them that morning—any reason to take it out on someone else and they usually take it out on their server.
If I take your order, serve your drinks, deliver your food, pick up your dishes and deliver/process your bill – you don’t think that deserves at least minimum wage? Come on…most of you think serving is beneath you…it’s why you’ve never worked as one and probably never will.
You don’t want to pay for me to bring you your food/drinks—no problem–eat at home, will save us both a lot of aggravation.
Kim,
All those tasks that you are complaining about are part of the "Excellent Customer Service" that the patrons are entitled to. You didn't mention the folks that leave you a generous tip even though they were pretty undemanding and were in and out.
Tips are not entitlements. They are earned thru professional services rendered. There are jerks in this world. You should not expect everyone to tip you out properly. If your tips are consistently poor, perhaps its because your attitude is reflected in the service you provide. TIPS = To Insure Prompt Service.
You are the kind of waiter is the cause of poor tippping. If you don't like the job quit. I generally tip 20% for good service. But, I can see you would be one of the surly waiters that I would probably consider tipping much less. And yes Ihave been on both sides. As a bartender not a waitress, but same issues.
If the service is bad, I won't tip. I will let the police sort it out, that's fine. If I pay the rest of the meal, I can't see where the tip, the optional part of the meal, is mandatory. If I get locked into a store, I'll be the one calling the police.
Poor service is not usually the fault of the wait staff but of the chef & kitchen management who cannot get the food out in a timely manner. – Wait staff generally work very hard for their money. - If you don't want to tip - go out for fast food at a drive thru. I've had college kids skip out on the check & I had to pay for their tab from my paycheck. - Truth is, a lot of people treat servers like crap.
Autograts are a joke. If you want my tip, do a good job and earn it. You're not getting an automatic tip from me just because you showed up to work. I tip generously, usually starting at 25%. I always put a minimum $5 tip on a $20 meal at my favorite place, though the service there is also always great, I've never had a bad server there.
But if I go to a place and have a rude and inconsiderate waiter or waitress, if I have to ask more than once to get a refill (most places that I go to with good staff are asking me if I want a refill when my current glass is still only a quarter full, not me asking them), they aren't getting a high tip from me.
They'll get something because it would have to be the worst service in the history of mankind for me to not leave ANY tip, but if it is a bad service, they'll get 10%, if that. Just because you showed up to work, but are a horrible server that day, doesn't mean you deserve an automatic 17% or 20%+ tip, and I'm going to show my opinion about that by leaving a tip comparable to the service I felt I was given. You do a great or amazing job, you're going to get a great, large tip from me. You do an "okay" job, you're gonna get an "okay" tip from me. You do a bad job, you're getting a small tip from me (and probably a negative review/comment card submitted to the manager/owner from me). You want that great, large tip from me, prove it to me with your service during my time there.
Adam, thank you for tipping the appropriate amount when going out to eat, I am a server and I do give great service, I do have about 15-20 different regulars that come in and see me when they go out to eat. Autograting is to protect the servers that have to wait on tables that don't know how to tip. I have waited on parties of 7 where they ring up a $200.00 bill and only leave $8.00 as a tip and they think that was generous when they tipped. So this is to protect the less educated or cheap people that are out there
Want a tip do a good job. Holding people hostage for a tip this is ridiculous and criminal and CNN should be posting the name and address of this restaurant.
LA FISHERMAN
1935 HWY 6 SOUTH
HOUSTON, TEXAS 77077
Thanks. I actually hopes their business suffers because of this. I know one restaurant that I'LL never go to if I'm ever in Houston.. . And for the crybabies wanting to berate me for saying that. . . . I pay 20 – 25% for good service. IMHO, if you're a GOOD server, theres typically no need for 'autograt'
Tipping has gotten out of hand. I truely respect wait staff at restaurants and typically leave 20% when service is good because I have too been a waiter, however if staff were actually paid by the establishment for their efforts like any other job instead of the less than minimum wage maybe we could count on waiters/waitresses to be able to live off their profession and only tip in extreme cases. how many desk jockeys or laborers get a tip for meeting expectations?
That's exactly right. And if it's already included, they can get the attitude they can get lax, and in some cases rude, wthout repercusions on their tip.
I understand why restaurants use these "autograts". That being said, the ones who do are costing their servers money when they wait on me. I'm generally a good tipper - I start at 20 percent and round up to the next dollar - but will not add a tip to the bill if the restaurant has already put one on my tab automatically.
For example, I went to lunch with 5 coworkers yesterday and my relatively cheap meal had a $1.45 tip. If they hadn't put that on my bill, the waitress would've got $3 from me. Instead, she got $1.45.
Under Lockdown for not wanting to tip bad service?! That's crazy. And I agree with you to the extent that often the autograt can sometimes cause servers to lose money and quite often guests will assume that it's all covered nicely when you pay your bill. Factor in that a server might have to split tips with the Bar and Bussers...then he/she is losing out bigtime by the end of the shift. NOT TO MENTION.... since when did a party of 5 become a "Big party" worth an autograt anyway? I've been out of the biz for awhile but that seems rather ridiculous. That's simply the size of an average family.
I agree with someone else's response. Since when is 5 people a large table. The normal tip today is 20 percent & the 17 or 18 percent for a larger group is qite normal, however, if service is real bad & you ask to see the manager or owner & explain , the management should consider the customers complaint & make the every one happy.. Wait staff & cooks etc have bad days too, but it should not be taken out on customers. I owned a restaurant once so I realize both sides , although there are a lot of just plain cheap customers.
The responsibility to pay the wait staff at a restaurant belongs to the restaurant. First they charge for the food, which is expected, of course, but then we have to pay someone to bring it from the kitchen to the table. It is not acceptable to me or many of my friends. I will pay a tip for good service. Period. I am not going to pay the server's salary.
I used to be a server and the gratuity added to a bill is optional to pay - just nobody knows about it. Check out the article on NY Times – http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/15/nyregion/15tipper.html?_r=1
I use to be a server & loved it! Now, I want to start a Server Training School because service in the restaurant industry has gone way down hill. Been to many restaurants all over the USA from Lawry's in Chicago to Olive Garden to Waffle House & a good waiter/waitress is VERY HARD to find. Give me good service & I'll tip up to 25%......give me lousy service & I give only 10%. If a person receives poor service, why should they have to tip a fixed amount? After all, TIP or TIPS mean: "To Insure Promptness" or "To Insure Prompt Service"!
That's ENSURE, not INSURE.
I have a favorite sit-down restaurant that also does a great take-out business. They recently starting using new menus that prominently state that if you don't wish to tip, you should use the take-out window. This is obviously not one of the more expensive restaurants, but it's a very good independent restaurant, with mid-range prices, I guess. I laughed when I first saw it, but I think it's great.
T.I.P.S. TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE!! If the service is lousy , no tip, but if they insist, no problem I want a receipt for it so that I can claim tax on it!!! Then file a complaint on YELP, and with the BBB in that area. Texas is FAMOUS for their lousy service in the restaurants, they pay their employee's $2.20 an hour, and go ahead an force their wait helps to change 17% percent on the ticket to make up the difference that the cheapskate employer's refuse to give them.
Someone already addressed the misuse of the word "insure," so I'll address other issues.
1) If you want to "insure" prompt service, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. IOW, treat your servers like people, not something you stepped in.
2a) The word "tips" is not an acronym. It's an abbreviation of the word "tipster"
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=tip&searchmode=none
"give a small present of money to," c.1600, "to give, hand, pass," originally thieves' cant, perhaps from tip (v.3) "to tap." The meaning "give a gratuity to" is first attested 1706. The noun in this sense is from 1755; the meaning "piece of confidential information" is from 1845; the verb in this sense is from 1883; tipster first recorded 1862.
2b) There's also this reference
http://www.snopes.com/language/acronyms/tip.asp
3) Don't perpetuate myths. Do your own research and try spreading facts for a change.
Why is it my responsibility to pay the waiter's salary? Not going to do it. I tip for good service. Period.
My post was an etymology lesson, Katy. Congratulations completely missing the point.
I typically tip between 16 and 25%, but having never worked in the food service industry, I do not understand why one party of 10 is more work than five parties of two. Also, my experience has been that larger parties spend and tip more per person. Comments ?
You sound like a decent person, thank you... the reason why is when a server gives his whole night to one party rather than a bunch of smaller ones he is totaly dependent on that one party being decent people.. the work may be the same but chances are the 5-7 tables they serve will be decent and tip understanding they are not at Mickey D's and this person makes 2.13 an hour... sanctioned by the government for decades upon decades. If you want table service pay for it, otherwise... go to Micky D's idiots. Bad service? Well... tip 10% instead of 15-20% and complain to the manager and get the bad server fired or disciplined... but remember, every person has their own taste as how to be served too. Waiters casn't always read your mind, even slow service can be kitchen problems, NOT waiter problems TOO!
I worked as a server when I was in my late teens, after I finished high school. I live in Texas as well, so I can attest to the fact that back then I was paid $2.13 per hour. I didn't live at home, I had to fend for myself, so I wasn't just pocketing extra money; this was the way I made a living. The restaurant that I worked at did not charge gratuity unless it was a party of 8 or more, and they only charged it when they felt appropriate. They really tried to avoid charging gratuity unless they absolutely had to. So I really had to depend on my customers for my paycheck.
I was always praised for being an excellent server. I was prompt, courteous, and I never had an empty drink sitting on my customer's table. Although I have a disability (I cannot turn my right hand, I have never been able to since birth, its a long story, but just trust me when I say that my right hand does not turn in the slightest), I still did my job just like any other server. We did not use serving trays, so I commonly carried out an entire arm full of plates, even though it is very difficult to set a plate in front of a customer using a hand that does not turn. I refused to let anything slow me down, so people following me with plates or making multiple trips was not an option.
Usually, people tipped appropriately for my level of service, so I really had no room for complaints. However, once in a while you would get a large family that would take up a table for nearly 2 hours, allow their children to make insanely huge messes (and I have 3 small kids, so I KNOW messes, this was outrageous!) have a bill well over $100 that would leave me maybe A DOLLAR for a tip. After I had busted my behind making sure that their dining experience was everything that they expected. Its like a slap in the face. Did they not see me running back and forth to get them more silverware when their kids threw the first set? Did they forget that I refilled 8 glasses around 6 times? A few times, I had extremely large parties come in that left CHANGE on the table. Nickles and dimes was what I received for the time that I spent attending to their every need. A party of ten or more can take 3 times as long to get their drinks, take their orders, place their orders, bring their appetizers, bring their food and then bring any additional items they may ask for. So there is a huge difference between the work that it takes for a smaller party in comparison to the work that it takes for a larger party.
And maybe a lot of people out there that do not tip appropriately are, as you are, simply unaware of the extra work that it takes because they've never done the job. Having a job that relies on tips is really a toss up. Some days you come home with a wad full of cash, some days you barely made enough to cover your gas going back and forth to work.
Pizza delivery guys really get it the worst, though. These guys are out spending $4 a gallon for gas, trying to keep up the maintenance on their car, all the while delivering pizzas for well below minimum wage. My husband has worked for every major pizza business and I can tell you that they all operate on nearly the same wages: Usually around $4-5 an hour (sometimes they even make waitress wages!), $1 per delivery (yes, Pizza Hut charges you around $3, but your driver only gets $1 of that), and then whatever the customer gives the driver. Customers typically tip the pizza guy less than $5 because they figure that he is getting paid a nice delivery fee. Well, he isn't. Some nights, he made less than the gas that he used to make the deliveries. If employers were willing to pay these employees real wages, tipping wouldn't be an issue. Needless to say, I got out of the area of work that depends on tips because I simply cannot live like that. I would rather have an hourly wage that I can depend on rather than depending on the kindness of strangers.
Sorry guys... but if you cannot negotiate a wage with your employer, that's tough! I'm not going to make up the difference between what your boss thinks you're worth, and what YOU think you're worth... no "autograts" period! And if someone would have locked the door on me, I would have gone out a window.... having cleared the way with a chair or two! The familly should file a complaint for unlawful restraint!
negotiate??? what part of the world are you from ?? go back to your video game and live in fantasy land. negotiate my.......
Waiting on one table of ten is more difficult than five tables of two because of the timing involved. Your five tables of two will not likely be seated at the same time and their service will be staggered according to when they were seated – greeting and menus, then drinks, then apps, then meal will all be ordered and served at different times per table. The table of ten will expect and should get the same prompt service, but order times will be longer because of the number of people involved, as will the delivery of those orders. If orders are similar it may be harder for the server to remember who ordered what, as it may be if there are people absent at the table when the food arrives. There should be a system of proper service taught at the restaurant, but that is often not the case, and it is much easier for a server to remember an order for two than an order for ten. Also, throughout each meal the server will be refilling ten possibly different drinks and supplying other items required by the customer.
It is basically a memory game for the server; I hope that helps.
Can't. Stop. Laughing!!!
I would have asked to speak to the Police outside and filed a criminal complaint with them for false imprisonment and have the staff of the restaurant arrested and cuffed on that charge.
All of you saying things to the effect of, "tips are optional/a reward, I shouldn't have to pay if I don't want to" have clearly never tried to make a rent payment working for tips. If you had, you might think a little differently. My approach? "That service was lousy - I'm only leaving 15% this time!" Otherwise, 20% is a good starting point (makes the math easier, too – just move the decimal one spot left, then double it). As to "autograts," if it's clearly stated, it's in play. Got a problem with the service, talk to the manager BEFORE the bill comes.
whats it to me if you cant afford your rent? if thats a problem for a sever then it's quite likely that they are horrible at their job and many patrons are voting with their wallet, instead of the occasional customer being a skinflint. face it, not everyone is cut out for any particular job. if you cant wait tables properly, find a new job. it's not my place to pay your salary if you dont do your job well.
i can see you have never been a server and suspect you are the kind we hate a very poor tipper, if you cannot read nor understand the policy then i have a suggestion eat at home where you serve and clean up after yourself or get it to go
I have waitressed for many years at places that pay servers the $2 per hour from buger joints to very nice restaurants. If a restaurant is going to charge the 18% gratuity, the server(s) must do a good job. Good job as defined by filling my drinks, being pleasant, competent, etc. I don't expect perfection.
I went to a Chinese restaurant once with five adults and two 2-month-olds who were asleep in their carriers. We had horrible service. Our drinks were not refilled once even though we asked. Some of the food was spicy, so we needed at least one refill on the water. We asked two servers for to-go boxes and didn't get them until we went to the counter. At the end of the meal, we noticed the gratuity. When I asked, the staff pointed out their policy on parties of 6 or more. I said there was only 5 adults. They said the two babies make 7 because they take up space even though they didn't eat or make a peek. I was shocked. I could see their point but then they need to follow up with good service. I normally tip at 20% minimum. Sometimes, I tip at Orange Julius. I realize the workers don't make much, but I also don't believe in throwing money away especially to enable laziness. They threatened to call the police and I accepted. They decided to just let me go. I am Asian, too, so it wasn't because of any prejudices.
they needed to pay their servers. I said that is what minimum wage was for. This was in a state where servers are paid the full minimum wage. I said it was not acceptable for them to charge for the gratuity and not provide refills on water.
I agree with you Bob. Also, what's the incentive for a waiter to provide good customer service if the gratuity is built in?
Great points made on both sides, but I don't buy this family's claim. Look at the size of this restaurant...it's unrealistic to believe they were the only family there and that multiple exits were locked over a 17% gratuity. If this were a small family restaurant...sure. I don't doubt that the police were called, or if the family had simply claimed they were "restrained." Locking them in, in a restaurant of that size, is absurd.
Nope.....you can't force 10 people to pay 18% MORE for their meal than two people. It is NOT the job of the customer to pay the waitstaff's salary.
Gratuities are just that......GRATITUDE for good service. I don't care if the meal was horrible, I tip based the service. I usually tip between 20-30%, so please don't call me "cheap". If your attitude sucks, so will your tip. If your attitude is pleasant and helpful, I'll make up for the idiots who under-tip. Just don't ever assume a gratuity is a given.
Dead on. IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY YOUR EMPLOYEES WAGES!!!!! Why the heck can restaurants get away with paying starvation wages and then act indignant when THE CUSTOMER does not tip to their expectations. PAY YOUR EMPOYEES A DECENT WAGE!!!! I, THE CUSTOMER, should not be expected to do anything but buy your product if I so choose to.
-Unbelievable how often people go out to eat without knowing the facts.
-I'm a server at the best restaurant within 100 miles.
-I get NO paycheck. Literally. I am paid $2 and change per hour, which is taxed out of my paycheck and I receive a bi-weekly piece of paper that says "VOID."
-Tables are rotated by numbers of people served to ensure everyone gets a relatively fair share of the action.
-Sometimes I go into work and find we have too many servers or too little business and am sent home making $0 for the day.
-Every dollar I make comes from tips. THAT is the industry.
-If you are coming to a full service restaurant and spending $75 on a meal, with or without a tip, you are spending more than you need to.
-That $75 buys about 65 double cheeseburgers at McDonald's, surely enough to feed any family.
-You are making the choice to be served rather than have to lug a tray full of food across a dirty McDonald's floor and get your own kethcup.
-You are making the choice to spend more on a meal than you have to but have a problem with spending more a tip than you have to?
-The "going out to eat and having a nice dinner" industry runs on tips. It is not KFC, Subway, Wendy's or any other fast food joint.
-You go out to eat at a decent restaurant, you tip 20%.
-Auto-gratuities are the only way to ensure that a party of 10 feeling the need to spend upwards of $500 on meal (rather than get 450 McDoubles) and not showing their server the respect and gratitude for waiting on them hand and foot.
-When you go out to dinner you pay for FOOD and you pay for SERVICE.
-If you don't, stay home or eat fast food.
Sounds like these people didn't have a problem paying for FOOD and paying for SERVICE, but they didn't receive SERVICE so why would they pay for it?
have you been a server? they should have complained before the bill and i will never believe they were locked in most businesses have doors that will open from the inside even when locked
@JC: You are a fool for working without pay. That is your fault. Don't blame the patrons for your stupidity. Patrons should tip based on their ability and service received. A person who is earning the minimum wages for some special occasion can bring his/her family members to a good restaurant for dinner and spend $75. You have no right to complain about it...its that person's money. For the serving you do, you are paid by the restaurant and not by patrons. Before I get the bill, I make it a point to speak to restaurant managers and let them about food and service. If service was bad, I don't pay tip and no one has tried to stop or imprison me. If service was good, I tip upto 20% without hesitation.
As a server and bartnder , I get pretty pissed when a large group wants to argue over the 18% grat. I am awesome at my job so its only happened once when a man saw the price, including the 18% that was written in bold, and handed me his credit card. I then ran it and returned to say my thank you and have a mnic e day. When i returned and he was gone, I noticed he crossed out the authorized amount and wrote in a total less the 18%! Since, he authorized the gratutiy, he couldnt do that and I still got my tip. The problem here wasnt my service as it was in this particular case in the article. The problem was a family who thinks they can come come in a large group ,with little ones, get great almost exclusive service, rack up a bill in the hundreds, and not TIP! I earn minimum wage, without tips on large parties like that, I couldnt survive. ALSO, THE NICER YOU ARE TO YOUR SERVER THE BETTER YOUR SERVICE WILLL BE!
I normally tip 20% or more though one time I tipped nothing when a server did not show up to our table for twenty minutes, brought our food a half hour after we ordered it, I had to go to the bar to get my girlfriend's drink refilled (twice), and then had to find the manager to get a bill. Because of where we were seated I saw our server texting for a good portion of that time. People should realize that they are the only one's paying their servers and pay them, unless their servers refuse to do their job in which case they should be paid little or nothing. Tipping is optional for a reason.
Automatic gratuities are not legally enforceable. The restaurant had no right to lock the patrons inside and if I had been there I would have said "Sure I will speak with the police. I would be happy to tell them how you unlawfully detained me in your restaurant to extort money from me that you are not legally owed."
How are they not legally enforceable? It is clearly stated on the menu as are drink prices and food prices. Are those legally enforceable? If you go into a restaurant and order from the menu then you agree to price you are paying for food and for service (clearly stated on the menu as a percentage). If the service was so bad, why didn't someone raise this during the meal? If the food was bad, would you eat it all then say you shouldn't have to pay for it because you didn't care for it despite having eaten it? The reason restaurants underpay waiters and waitresses is that most people would look at the true cost of eating out and then balk at the prices. The notion of tipping gives some power back to the consumer but this power is sometimes altered in the case of larger parties that can subvert the whole process. Unfortunately a lot of people see this as a reason to assume the waiter/waitress should just get screwed over. These are people who should realize they were just meant to eat fast food as they don't understand. It is okay... know your limitations as a person and leave the rest of us who can read the fine print alone.
So, if I put "patrons will bequeath a BMW and 1st born child if party exceeds 1 person" on my menu, it's legally enforceable? I think not.
No that isn't enforceable. You also couldn't walk into that same BMW dealership and drive away with an M3 because you had a poor experience or you didn't think it should cost that much.
Exactly. Just like those construction trucks that post signs on the rear that say "Not responsible for rocks or other road debris that may make contact with your vehicle" cannot simply remove their liability by posting a sign that says they will. Only state and civil legislators make laws – not private business.
Locking them in the restuarant is a more serious crime than stiffing the restaurant on the gratuity. The presumption on the autograts is that at least adequate service is given. If that is not the case, the manager should have cut them some slack. I have found most do and even go overboard to make things right. I suspect the family was just being cheap. However, if the service was truly appalling, then they do not have to pay, since the autograt has an implied warranty of good service, which the restaurant violated.
Anyone discussing a civil action is mistaken. This is theft of services pursuant to the agreed to contract for eating in the restaurant. Just like a retail store, if they suspicion is reasonable you can be detained. Here they stole and the police were charged. In the case of a mandatory gratuity, it is obviously not "gratis" but built in and has nothing to with good service (contractually etc). You could bring a small claims suit for a refund, but at that point, you owe.
Dave, you're wrong. If it's a contract violation, then it IS a civil action, and which, the police will tell you they do not have any authority to intercede, you must pursue your action through the municipal court system. Police WILL however, handle criminal law violations such as, kidnapping and false imprisonment. The restaurant was clearly in the wrong here regardless of what the patrons did or did not pay.
It angers me that tips have become an entitlement in this country instead of a reward for excellent service. Of course waiters and waitresses should be paid well for their work, but it should come from the restaurant and not be forced on the customer. Restaurants and other service industries should have the same wage requirements as every other business that struggles to make it in this country. A salesman does not spend time explaining a product to a customer and then add 15% to the price at the end. I enjoy tipping as a thank-you for good service, but I hate having my arm twisted to pay extra, even if the service was poor. Plus, I've observed that the minimum size for "large" parties is shrkinking, while the mandatory percent tip is increasing. This means that an undemanding party of 5 or 6 would automatically pay more than a very difficult table of 4.
If tipping was not mandatory, waitstaff would be fairly compensated by the restaurant and would still be motivated by the opportunity to earn a tip on top of that. Someone above made the argument that tipping is not mandatory in Europe but the service is bad. Maybe in some places, but I did not find it to be the case in the 7 countries I've spent time in. In some cases, the service was much better than here, even when they did not expect a tip.
How is your point not six of one/half dozen of the other? Perhaps restaurants should just raise their prices by 20 percent and put those new prices on the menu. Many states allow restaurants to pay servers very little, so they do live on tips. Why should we single out bad service to deny someone their income? People on salaries (like, for instance, some teachers) get paid for a service they in reality do very badly.
Hey – what's with picking on teachers? Apparently it's become socially acceptable to use teachers as a synonym for unskilled, poor-performing workers. Frankly, you'd get paid much better to simply baby-sit 30 kids for six hours than to try to actually teach them something, so how about laying off the myth of lazy incompetent teachers?
I agree it should not be mandatory and should be extra, but the first thing that needs to be done is to have every state require that restaurant employees get at least the minimum wage, not less. High school kids at McDonald's can be making more per hour than the staff at a sit-down restaurant. That is messed up.
sounds like possible civil action for false arrest, false imprisonment and intentional infliction of mental distress. I think the restaurant will rue this action
My mother worked weekends in an upscale restaurant (along with two other jobs during the week) and used to have a large party (~20) come in for brunch after church every Sunday. They would eat like pigs and run the staff ragged, then leave a single dollar as a tip for the whole group.
Selfish, sanctimonious losers like that are responsible for policies like this.
The 'church' crowd is the worst when it comes to tipping. You're dead in your description. They run you ragged, act all self-important and then leave you very little to nothing for a tip. Sometimes they'll even leave those little 'tracts' that look like a folded bill tucked under the edge of the plate. Unbelievable. I'm not working there to get Christ to save my soul. I'm working there to put food on MY table and feed MY kids!!
* dead on
Be careful not to paint all "church" people with one large brushstroke. I have known church people that tipped badly and those who tipped well. For me personally, Christ died for my sins and my money means nothing, so I often tip 25% and have been out to eat with many church groups who have tipped quite large for the inconvenience of our group to the waitstaff. We even became good "friends" with a regular server at a restaurant we went to after church. I have also gone to lunch with workmates and have been ashamed and had to add significantly to the bill to make up for poor payment and tipping. So while there is many a "church group" where there are cheapskates, there is also many a "non-church" group that are cheapskates. Hopefully some of those who go to church will get the love of Christ in their hearts at some point and start treating others decently.
unbelevable . if they really wanted to make sure their workers were compensated fairly theyd pay them a living wage
here in arizona waiters and waitresses are exempted from minimum wage laws
talk about a bunch of cheapskate restaurants never heard of this restaurant but wont go in one anyway
I know what it's like to serve as a waitress, and i also know that although it gets busy, it isn't that complicated. You get drinks, keep an eye on them, take orders, give the food. Really, it's not that difficult. Plus, most places give you one or two small tables if you're working with a large group, so you shouldn't be too distracted, and if you are, it's because your not working, or horrible at multi-tasking. Either way, the party had a right not to want to pay the 17%. Tipping is a choice, even after working as a waitress, i've left a 25 cent tip before after having the most horrible service in my life! Do your job and you'll be rewarded, don't and you'll be asking for more hours so you can pay your bills.
This is one restuarant to avoid. A tip is simply a reward for good service and nothing more and nothing less. In this case, the service was lousy so a tip is not warranted no matter what it is called. Had this happened to me, I would have also gotten on all of the social media and explained what happened at the restaurant by name with accurate details. The loss of business should make the management apologize in public and refund the tip.
Wow. A restaurant restrains someone against their will over 17% tip? Extortion AND kidnapping. I hope the employees were charged. Even if there was an implied contract, you don't enforce contracts by committing felonies. I hope the employees were arrested! I'd have insisted on it.
Hardly "kidnapping" ; rather "false imprisonment", i.e. restraining somebody in a certain location,
against that somebody's will, provided the somebody was not in the commission of committing a crime.
@liberty I concur. I would not have tolerated that for one minute and the police officers on the scene need to be re-trained if they are unable to recognize that locking customers in a building over the percentage of gratuity is illegal. Even if the party didn't want to pay their bill at all, calling the police is suitable but locking the doors is not. When I worked for corporate-owner restaurants, staff was carefully informed of laws that would apply to us in our work environment.
I am not opposed to an inclusive gratuity for a larger party, however, there should be no reason why a party can't dispute it with management for specific and genuine reasons.
Personally I like to give 20% on average without being anal about the service. Mistakes happen and servers get swamped, but there's no excuse for rudeness.The amount of work involved for one table varies to a great extent depending on the restaurant.Though, the cost of food usually reflects the expectations for the wait staff. If a server is doing a great job and not regularly compensated properly, it's time to find a better place to work.
I don't generally object to an automatic gratuity on parties of 8 or more, but 5? That's just cheesy and I wouldn't go there.
Everyone should wait tables at one point in their life–it is hard work. If you need proof that nice and normal people turn into entitled monsters once seated at a restaurant table, just think about the coworker or sibling you are embarrassed to eat out with because they become so rude and demanding–everyone knows at least a few of these, and if you don't, then it's you. I'm grateful for my experience waiting tables in high school and even more grateful that I've since moved on to better things. As a result, I believe in good tipping. I don't, however, believe in locking people up, and neither does the law. The persons who did this need to be arrested.
Isn't what the staff did a form of kidnapping? Citizens being held against their will? Shouldn't the police have charged the staff who locked the doors with a criminal offense(s)? No mater the economics of the profession, if a citizen locked up another and refused to allow them to leave, that person would be liable under a entire slew of criminal laws.
I hope those diners sue the shorts off the restaurant. If there were a Newton's law for bad restaurant behavior, this would rank high on the list. However the Arby's that served the sandwich with the fingertip in the sandwich last week, and then decided to keep the store open amazingly, certainly ranks!
Ooops.. make that Darwin's law, and "matter"... doh!
However Newton might apply too.. for every action there is...
Seriously, I can't believe this story, nor can I imagine a cop allowing the diners to remain locked inside.
Seriously... over a tip? Especially one for bad service!
I'm fine with the auto 18% but it's not a legally binding contract...if you lock me in the restaurant I'm suing for false imprisonment.
Restaurants worried that large groups won't pay (I specify "pay" and not "tip" because tipping is voluntary; automatic "gratuities" are, let's face it, gratuitous) their servers enough should simply change their policy to one which pays their workers a fair wage, and then allow customers to tip as they see fit. It's curious how no matter how good the food and the service might be at a restaurant, the management is *almost* always full of complete idiots who know nothing about food or business.
From http://www.tip20.com/why-should-you-tip/27:
"Do you legally have to tip? No. Occasionally, you will have a situation where gratuity has been automatically added to your bill. This is usually on larger groups or parties. This gratuity has been added because it is easy for the server to get a tip that is far less than they deserve, because in a group setting it is easy for one or two people to under pay causing the rest of the group to fall short. Again, you do not legally have to pay this gratuity, but if you don’t you should have a talk with the server and/or manager and explain why. Remember, just because a gratuity has been added, it may still be less than a good tip for the server. For example, a gratuity may have been added at 15%. This is a tip for average service. If your server did a great job it is good to add in the difference to make up to 20% or more. Many times the server had to give up several other smaller tables to take your party, so even with automatic gratuity they end up making less on their shift."
Personally, i'd like to see tipping completely voluntary in the absolute sense of that word. Raise the prices to reflect higher wages for wait staff, and base their pay upon performance. Then, if someone gives you extraordinary service (this should be the norm, but of course it's not) give them something additional if you so choose.
As for the "autograt" places, you're cheating your best wait staff where I am concerned. I tip well beyond 18% if the service is good, but when there's an included gratuity, I never give more. (No additional rewards without additional risks.) I understand why places do it, but you can get terrible service in a big party too. Who wants to pay 18% for terrible service.
For places I go all the time, I regularly tip 20%. I will also try to ask for waiter/waitresses I have had before. In one particular place I have left $40 tips on bills around $60. We get great service there and have never had to wait for a table. So, I guess that kind of tipping will get you noticed.
At place I don't go to regularly I am pretty harsh on the tip if the service was not good. I have no problem leaving 5% or less. I do understand them being busy, but I seem to get worse service at places during off hours. Not worth my money or me going back.
I follow the below rules:
My standard is 20%. If you are okay, you get 15%. If you are not good, you get 5% and I leave a note on the receipt. If you are excellent you will get 25% with some of it in cash. In the case of forced gratuity, it depends on the wait staff. If they are good, I pay extra. If they are bad, I pay just the minimum and I call later, speak to the manager, and get a refund.
If I go to a business with forced tips, I tell the wait staff "take good care of us, we will do the same." Rarely have I gotten bad service. In those cases I always leave more. Last time I paid for a huge table bill, the total was somewhere around 180 bucks, and I tipped 40, adding to the 18%.
What I have a problem with is wait staff that thinks they are entitled to tips. No, you have to earn it. Yes, I can afford to tip you well. If you suck, I won't praise you for poor service, and odds are I won't go to your business again. There are enough restaurants to choose from that I don't have to put up with it. You represent your place of business. Act like it and quit having the entitlement mentatily that is so prevalent among people these days.
I agree with you 100%. I worked in the restaurant business for over 25 years and even owned my own. This entitlement mentality is ridiculous and irritating. Tipping waitstaff for bad service ensures that they will continue to do it. Autograts are to ensure that people don't assume others will tip better than someone else when everyone throws in their share of the tab at the end of the meal. Generally, when people pay separately, the server makes MORE in tips, but it is time-consuming to figure checks separately. When serving a large party, the server doesn't wait on many other tables, if any, and therefore depends on that autograt. Bottom line: guests should pay what they think the server is worth and remember that they have bills to pay, too.
First of all as a "Christian" I truly believe that the Bible was written by the Lord himself and has answers to everything we need to know how to live our lives. The Lord himself taught on how we are to give back to HIM 10% of our tithes and offerings out of our "first fruits" of what we earn, and then to Cezar (the government/taxes) what's theirs.
I use this same principle in tipping. Why should I give more to a waiter or waitress (especially if given poor service) more than what I give GOD> Beyond that should be ones personal choice to tip above and beyond the 10% – which I have on many many occasions.
thanks, that was the dumbest thing I've heard so far today.
That should be ILLEGAL. You can't give crappy service and expect people will pay a mandatory tip...and then lock them in the restaurant. Total BS. I'd give them a tip alrght...the tip of my shoe in their arse.
I'm sure any waiter would take 10% of your earnings as a tip. lol. You're comparing apples to airplanes.
Folks, this is why all servers really dislike waiting on church groups. Especially on Sundays.
^^^^AGREE!^^^^
PRAISE HIM!!
Good Christ...
If you're a true Christian then you are not eating out at all! You heather! The wife should be home at the family fire cooking a side of meat over the coals and embers. The children and the flock should be attended to 18 hours a day, and when the husband is aroused, the wife should be available to please him. Then the wife should collect the stones to bring to the temple to stone those gentiles who attend restaurants and sinfully, with vanity, show off their new clothes purchased at KMART. Know thyself and heal thyself you heathen. Back to the cave with you!
I commend you for speaking the truth! True Christians dont eat out! They grind their own wheat and milk their own cows. Restaurants and televisions and computers were not used by Jesus – neither should we! And also, tru Christians dont vote. They do what the Romans tell them what to do! So if priests play with little boys, so should we – and stay out of Restaurants – home of Satan!
“When you have finished laying aside all the tithe of your increase in the third year—the year of tithing—and have given it to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, so that they may eat within your gates and be filled, then you shall say before the LORD your God: ‘I have removed the holy tithe from my house, and also have given them to the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, according to all Your commandments which You have commanded me; I have not transgressed Your commandments, nor have I forgotten them. Deuteronomy 26:12, 13
so really you only need to tithe every THIRD year...and THAT is to be shared with other people...not given to some church! So your 10% tip formula is a crock! Tipping is NOT tithing...i feel sorry for the people that wait on you! oh and if you want to use the OT ...as a Christion Jesus replace Mosaic law...you cant have iot both ways...even if you use some OT reason for tithes...it is on INCREASE...not on your "gross"!!
If you pray properly about it you will see i am right! :)
If you get pretty good service, you should tip 15% at a full-service restaurant, period. If you're tipping 10% on a regular basis, you're stealing from the waiter or waitress serving you. That's their money, you should give it to them. Otherwise, take your cheap self to McDonalds.
You don't tip over 10% because god tells you? Wow I've seen religion used to justify a lot of things, now it's for someone to be cheap.
Just curious–is this what Jesus would do? And do you limit anything else you pay for to no more than 10% of your income? Your mortgage/rent, your taxes? Or does your bible commitment only concern justifying not paying for service in restaurants?
Really your response reinforces the original point, the self proclaimed religious types are terrible tippers. Stay at home or eat at church if tipping violates your beliefs, don't go somewhere where tips are necessary and claim Jesus exempts you.
you are the reason most of us HATE to work Sundays!!! i am new to Christianity however does it not say something about the worker deserving his wage? We hate waiting on you people and you give Christians a very bad name....you are to give the Lord 10% of your total wages that is somewhat different than 10% of your light bill!!!!! you cheap people leave 10% we tip out 3-4%min so that leaves us with 6-7% please eat at home we do not want to wait on you
LOLOL 10%?! WOW your argument is that god told you give 10%?! haha your excuse for being a cheapass!!
Well, I tip 200-percent! There, I win in the category of World's Most Insane Tippers. Yep, some of you thought you could impress the judges with your claims of 18-, 20-, and 22-percent tips, but you still lose.
Seriously, you VOLUNTARILY pay 20 percent? What a rube. (If you are telling the truth.)
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Also, I hope you super-huge tippers realize that waiters RARELY IF EVER declare all their tips. YOU honestly pay YOUR taxes, but THEY often cheat the system. For that reason, I don't feel bad about leaving a 10-percent tip.
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Persons dining at a $30 a meal restaurant probably are making more than the $15-$20 hr a waitress/waiter is making. Plus consider this, the waitress is also tipping (not all in every case but at least 2): bussers, bartenders, expos, host/hostess, Maitre d' (head waiter) and possibly other waiters/waitresses depending on party size/banquet style dinners. So their $20 tip just got whittled to $15 or even less. So yeah, 10% is a joke. Sorry, former service industry worker speaking, but you want comfort, these people want to live. You want extras/great service you're gonna pay for it, one form or another.
You are a total jack@ss. Not only do servers claim tips, they are usually required by the restaurant to claim based on their sales (usually around 12% of the total sales), not on actually how much they get in tips. Also, servers get fired all the time because they aren't claiming enough per restaurant rules. So unless they server makes very good tips in a night, once they tip out to bartenders and busboys, there is a good chance they are paying taxes on more money than they actually make. But since the Bible forgot that part, you don't believe it to be true.
Yes there are many people who pay 20% or more, especially in good restaurants. Not everyone is as cheap as you are! The point about tax cheats has been rebutted (servers are taxed assuming they are making a certain % in tips–meaning they pay tax on what you aren't tipping, and even on that bible tract some other jerk left in lieu of tip) but really the whole point is irrelevant. You pay for goods and services in all aspects of your life, you have no way of knowing whether others are paying their taxes or not. Do you not pay your mechanic or pay him only 1/2 because he's cheating on his taxes? Nonsense. You pay based on what you buy and the service you get, the recipients tax situation is between them and the IRS and none of your business.
you leave 10% because you are cheap and i hope you are not a regular because servers remember the good and the bad
"No tipping in Canada?"...where did you come up with that? Of course there is tipping in Canada. It is absolutely the same as the USA. Large groups, advertised auto gratuities. There are freeloaders and cheapies everywhere.
As a lifetime resident of WI and/or MN and a former service industry employee, I've had quite a bit of contact with our Neighbors to the North. It's been explained to me by them (and almost every single employer) that tipping wasn't the norm for Canada. That being sad, tipping does exist, but it isn't always understood to what extent or whom to tip. About 50% of the Canadians tipped me, I would guess. My girlfriend, who has been in the industry almost 15 years now, has said the same of MANY cultures, not just Canadians. She has more experience than I do, as she worked at the international airport. She says about 75% of the time Canadians don't tip, but she's had many the same discussion with customers too. In my opinion, they don't tip as often or as much as Americans.
What Canadians have you been talking to? Tipping in Canada is no different than the states. 20% is the norm for most better establishments but, like the states, there are deadbeats who will forgo the tip on even great service. Autograts are as prevalent in Canada as anywhere else. I currently live in Tokyo and an tell you that this is one country where tips are not encouraged or required (basically, nobody tips wait staff, taxis, bell hops, etc.) yet many of the larger hotels (Grand Hyatt) have an autograt in their restaurants.
I don't mind an autograt, but, if the service is poor, the establishment should negate the autograt. I've worked as a busboy before and waitresses shared their tips with us. I naturally wanted the waitresses to get better tips. My contribution was to do my job better. It worked and was appreciated.
I understand both sides of this argument, and do know that the wait staff does work for the tips. Most people who are not aware that the going rate now for tipping at restaurants is 20% have never been waiters or waitresses and don't realize that the restaurants are exempt from paying their wait staff minimum wage (or anything at all) to wait their tables.
However, the auto-tipping is NOT fairly administered in every case, at all restaurants. It is for this reason that I voted "other" in the poll.
I normally tip 20% at all restaurants where I go. And, I almost always get very good service wherever I go. I am not very hard to satisfy, and will generally signal the wait staff if I need anythng at any point, so waiting for someone to refill my coffee, soft drinks, etc., is not generally a problem for me.
HOWEVER, I went to a Howard Johnson (this is a long time ago when Hojo's was still in existence in these parts) restaurant one time with a bunch of people who had just attended a joint meeting. We were all casually acquainted and just decided to go at the same time. It was the first time I had ever joined that group there. I had my kids with me. The kids had desert while I had a cup of coffee which was refilled. Other people in the group had various things; some had entire meals.
As the evening wore on, people began to finish and leave for home while others remained. Some at neighboring tables had asked for their own separate tickets, but many of us at the one larger table were all on the same ticket. People who were leaving, put the money for their own order in a pile in the middle of the table with, I presumed, their tip. Different people have different ideas of what is a proper tip. Some older people still think it appropriate to tip $2.00 for an entire meal and others still tip about 10% thinking that is the right amount. Few people tip the true current standard of 20% that I adhere to and which I taught my kids to always adhere to also.
My kids and I were the last to leave ... I think I was setup that way by at least a few who left earlier. I was the newbie on the scene, and I suppose that was the deal with that group.
Well, needless to say, the server brought our ticket. I picked up the pile of money which now contained my money also for the little we ordered and the 20% tip I put into the pot with it. I counted it out, and I was definitely STUCK with a bill that was for more than was left and definitely more than I had on me at the time. The server had added in the 18% at that place for the "big group tip" but had NOT said a word about it. If she had said anything about that, she KNEW that we would ALL ask for separate tickets except the ones who were trying to get a free meal. And, there were apparently more than a few who either did not put in any tip at all or at least one or two who didn't pay at all for their large meals.
The tip came to multiple times the cost of my order. I started crying when she said to me that I had no choice and would be arrested if I did not pay. And, THEN, I became angry with her.
I did pay via credit card, but not without a lot of angst because since that group came there every single week, she KNEW that the newbie would get stuck and she never said a word.
After that, if I joined in with ANYONE at ANY restaurant after ANY meeting, and someone else wasn't paying my way or it wasn't prearranged that I was paying their way, I asked for a separate ticket for my children and I. After a while of going to that same restaurant, I noticed that more times than not, the freeloaders did NOT come BECAUSE nearly everyone started asking for separate tickets. With separate tickets, there would be no automatic tip added in, generally, and even if they had added it into each singular ticket because we happened to be sitting at the same table with our separate tickets, I would NEVER AGAIN have to worry about anyone else's tip and I would be getting off 2% less on the tip (I NEVER pay more if they add in an automatic tip.)
Since it was a family in this article, I would have simply paid the tip and even possibly the extra 2% if I received really good service. It's a tough crowd if my family were to ever get together at a restaurant and no server should be subjected to that and not tipped well.
But, if I ever got "stuck" again over something like what happened to ME, I would wait for the police and let them arrest me before I would pay all that money for everyone else who I barely knew just because some waitress saw an opportunity in the form of a newbie to her regular group. That was just plain rude of that server. Plus, I know that when it got to court, there is no way any judge would force a person to pay something that was neither advertised nor told to the customer which would be easy to prove via simple logic of separate tickets to avoid auto-tip.
BTW, five at one table is NOT a large group. If it were, my parents never would have been able to take our family out to eat - ever... we were a family of seven. Most families at the time I was growing up were families of at least five with some being families of much more - 12 kids and two parents seemed popular in the families of some friends.
The places where I have seen the auto-tip didn't add it in until the number got much higher than five and I don't believe any but maybe the fanciest places ever may have done that sort of thing when I was a child. They would have lost a lot of business back then doing that.
I live in Delaware, but In some restaurants in NYC, the wait staff PAYS the restaurant for the privilege of serving and in those, I would definitely pay the top percentage - but they wouldn't like me very much because I don't drink any liquor at all and rarely order desert. I do tend to get an appetizer, though (one for the WHOLE table to share.) I'm a cheap date (for husband now!)
So, the restaurant which charged that auto-tip on a table of five was really carrying it a bit far unless they were one of the fanciest restaurants in that town and their servers paid for the privilege of serving there.
In Canada, wait staff is paid a good salary (at least minimum wage) and there is no tipping at all, so one should see how bad it can get for wait staff in the states that border Canada or receive a lot of travelers from Canada. Those business men, etc., are not used to tipping at all and don't tend to "remember" to tip when they are in the states for lunch or dinner.
I've lived in Canada my whole life and I've always understood that tipping is part of eating out. I'm not sure why you think that Canadians don't tip. They do, and handsomely.
I'm sorry but Canadians are the WORST tippers ever! They rave about the service they are receiving and once they get the bill, pay the exact amount and walk out.
I don't know where you're getting your information that the "going rate" for tips is now 20%. I've read a fair number of guides on tipping for many countries, and in the United States, the baseline for a tip is still 15%. Anyone is of course entitled to tip more than that, or even less (though that is almost universally considered rude). Baseline tips vary by country, and they even vary within countries (e.g., you're generally expected to tip more at a swanky upscale restaurant in a city than a country restaurant in the boonies), but for Americans, 15% has long been the norm.
This tip inflation (i.e., claiming that 20% or more is the "new normal" for tipping) is nonsense, and usually an idea pushed or promoted by servers themselves. Since tipping is usually a percentage of the bill, a higher bill means a greater tip, so there should be no reason to increase the percentage unless the restaurant owners are keeping a greater percentage for themselves, or if the owners are paying more for food and supplies (a miniscule part of food service) and keeping the menu prices the same. I'm just not convinced that servers are under greater economic pressure than the rest of us that they'd need to make a bigger percentage of the bill.
Some people will always be stingy, but the solution IMHO is to get more customers to tip the real customary amount (15%) by providing better service, not inventing a new standard for tipping.
You were screwed by the people you ate with, not by the server. You took your kids for dessert and coffee, and a large group of people left you holding the check for not only the tip, but their dinners? You need to revisit how you determine who your friends are. There's no reason why the server should *also* be bilked out the money she worked hard for, nor do I see how she could have possibly known (and withheld from you) that you were being "set up" as the "newbie." There's a lot of misdirected rage here.
I understand both sides of this argument, but it is NOT fairly administered at all restaurants. It is for this reason that I voted "other" in the poll.
I normally tip 20% at all restaurants where I go. And, I almost always get very good service wherever I go. I am not very hard to satisfy, and will generally signal the wait staff if I need anythng at any point, so waiting for someone to refill my coffee, soft drinks, etc., is not generally a problem for me.
HOWEVER, I went to a Howard Johnson (this is a long time ago when Hojo's was still in existence in these parts) restaurant one time with a bunch of people who had just attended a joint meeting. We were all casually acquainted and just decided to go at the same time. It was the first time I had ever joined that group there. I had my kids with me. The kids had desert while I had a cup of coffee which was refilled. Other people in the group had various things; some had entire meals.
As the evening wore on, people began to finish and leave for home while others remained. Some at neighboring tables had asked for their own separate tickets, but many of us at the one larger table were all on the same ticket. People who were leaving, put the money for their own order in a pile in the middle of the table with, I presumed, their tip. Different people have different ideas of what is a proper tip. Some older people still think it appropriate to tip $2.00 for an entire meal and others still tip about 10% thinking that is the right amount. Few people tip the true current standard of 20% that I adhere to and which I taught my kids to always adhere to also.
My kids and I were the last to leave ... I think I was setup that way by at least a few who left earlier. I was the newbie on the scene, and I suppose that was the deal with that group.
Well, needless to say, the server brought our ticket. I picked up the pile of money which now contained my money also for the little we ordered and the 20% tip I put into the pot with it. I counted it out, and I was definitely STUCK with a bill that was for more than was left and definitely more than I had on me at the time. The server had added in the 18% at that place for the "big group tip" but had NOT said a word about it. If she had said anything about that, she KNEW that we would ALL ask for separate tickets except the ones who were trying to get a free meal. And, there were apparently more than a few who either did not put in any tip at all or at least one or two who didn't pay at all for their large meals.
The tip came to multiple times the cost of my order. I started crying when she said to me that I had no choice and would be arrested if I did not pay. And, THEN, I became angry with her.
I did pay via credit card, but not without a lot of angst because since that group came there every single week, she KNEW that the newbie would get stuck and she never said a word.
After that, if I joined in with ANYONE at ANY restaurant after ANY meeting, and someone else wasn't paying my way or it wasn't prearranged that I was paying their way, I asked for a separate ticket for my children and I. After a while of going to that same restaurant, I noticed that more times than not, the freeloaders did NOT come BECAUSE nearly everyone started asking for separate tickets. With separate tickets, there would be no automatic tip added in, generally, and even if they had added it into each singular ticket because we happened to be sitting at the same table with our separate tickets, I would NEVER AGAIN have to worry about anyone else's tip and I would be getting off 2% less on the tip (I NEVER pay more if they add in an automatic tip.)
Since it was a family in this article, I would have simply paid the tip and even possibly the extra 2% if I received really good service. It's a tough crowd if my family were to ever get together at a restaurant and no server should be subjected to that and not tipped well.
But, if I ever got "stuck" again over something like what happened to ME, I would wait for the police and let them arrest me before I would pay all that money for everyone else who I barely knew just because some waitress saw an opportunity in the form of a newbie to her regular group. That was just plain rude of that server. Plus, I know that when it got to court, there is no way any judge would force a person to pay something that was neither advertised nor told to the customer which would be easy to prove via simple logic of separate tickets to avoid auto-tip.
BTW, five at one table is NOT a large group. If it were, my parents never would have been able to take our family out to eat - ever... we were a family of seven. Most families at the time I was growing up were families of at least five with some being families of much more - 12 kids and two parents seemed popular in the families of some friends.
The places where I have seen the auto-tip didn't add it in until the number got much higher than five and I don't believe any but maybe the fanciest places ever may have done that sort of thing when I was a child. They would have lost a lot of business back then doing that.
I live in Delaware, but In some restaurants in NYC, the wait staff PAYS the restaurant for the privilege of serving and in those, I would definitely pay the top percentage - but they wouldn't like me very much because I don't drink any liquor at all and rarely order desert. I do tend to get an appetizer, though (one for the WHOLE table to share.) I'm a cheap date (for husband now!)
So, the restaurant which charged that auto-tip on a table of five was really carrying it a bit far unless they were one of the fanciest restaurants in that town and their servers paid for the privilege of serving there.
In Canada, wait staff is paid a good salary (at least minimum wage) and there is no tipping at all, so one should see how bad it can get for wait staff in the states that border Canada or receive a lot of travelers from Canada. Those business men, etc., are not used to tipping at all and don't tend to "remember" to tip when they are in the states for lunch or dinner.
Did you say something?
I would have kicked the down the f*cking door. Or found a chair to throw, a window, and a tablecloth and gotten out. No way I would let anybody imprison my family.
I have read quite a few of these posts and I too have my own opinion. First of all, in my 15+ years in the restaurant business, from fine dining to casual, I have never seen somebody detained for not paying the gratuity. This restaurant will not be in business very long. It is important to know that a restaurant relies upon the guests; if there are no guests, there is no restaurant. With this in mind, the guest is always #1. I have certainly had my moments of anger over a stiff (no tip) and have been belittled by careless people over the years, but it is a part of the business. I treat every guest the way I would want to be treated, which is professional and as equals. I have seen the "double dipping" scam, and I am horrified that it is allowed by managers. If I were the manager, I would write-up the employee or even fire them. It is ridiculous to trick a guest. I am surprised more restaurants don't just put a big stamp with the gratuity on the check itself. That would eliminate the trickery. Also, if my service was not to your liking, by all means I won't expect a gratuity. That said, times change. Tips need to go up by percentage to allow for inflation and the tip-out to other employees. 15% is ridiculous for great service. 20% to 25% is what I expect, if I am able to give you my utmost attention, which can be difficult based on the way I receive my tables. Just as I would for any guest in my house, I will let my guests know if my manager just gave me 5 tables back to back, and that I may be a bit rushed. Usually, my guests understand. Communication is the key. Although there are stinky bad apples out there, I am smart enough to know that life will go on, and my next table might be the best ever :) Stop stressing out!! Keep it positive ya'll :)
I pay up to 50% depending where I go, but one thing I don't like is if the wait staff didn't provide a good service and then something like this happens. Tipping also known as a gratuity is a voluntary act of additional payment made for services rendered. I am aware that only in America there is Mandatory Tipping which is an Oxymoron. One time I only had cash and whatever I had left after a meal was nickels and dimes, I felt bad but the waitress ran out telling me I forgot to tip...this is for a $15 meal for two.
What restaurants should do is tack on 15% to 20% mandatory tip to the menu, so people don't even need to think about it... except to provide additional tip if there was excellent service.
btw what I don't understand the concept of calculating tip post taxes.. i do it anyways because i'm lazy and they usually deserve more than 15%
Why should the tipping % increase because of inflation ? Isn't that doupple dipping as well ??
Since the Price of the meals increase with inflation so will the actual tipping amount. Inflation is just an excuse to try to set a new and higher standard.
1. Increase the prices on the menu by 18% and pay the employees better.
2. I should not be expected to tip you a certain amount because of the IRS.
3. I should be able to tip a flat rate. Why should I pay more for a $50 meal than a $25 meal when you gave me the same level of service. To tip based on the price of the meal instead of the level of service makes no sense.
do you understand the server must tip 3-4% min on the price of the meal so when you leave the same for a 25 meal as a 50 meal you (which is probably 10% on a good night) the server must pay 3-4% on the 50 no matter what you leave. why don't you people do us a favor and eat fast food
Bunch of pathetic cheapskates, if you can't afford to tip wtf you doing out at a restaurant?? Go to McDonalds you BUMS!!!
You wouldn't have a job if all of us cheap skates go to McDonald's instead, now would you?. Does you boss know about your attitude?
yes we would there are plenty of people who tip well and we could give them the service they deserve all the time if we did not have to deal with cheap people like you!!!! and yes, i love my manager and she has been a server and feels the same way though she could never say that
The REAL solution to all this is to pay waiters and waitresses a LIVING WAGE.
Good service should not require an extra incentive. When I visit the grocery store or hardware store, I don't tip the employees, and I still expect good service.
Of course, that also means that all those people in the restaurant industry will have to pay taxes on all that money that have never claimed as income. In big cities, where some waiters can make thousands in unreported income.
Basically, waiters and waitress have a sweet deal with respect to unreported income. They would do well to just shut up about people who failed to leave a huge tip.
Clearly, you have never waited tables before. Did you ever think that we have to tip out other employees? We tip out Bartenders, Host/Hostess, and Bus boys. If we are stiffed or given a low tip we actually pay to wait on tables. We don't have it "sweet" that we have unreported income. It is very difficult to get a auto loan or a mortgage. For your information the "sweet" deal is only hundreds not thousands of dollars as most employers claim ten to fifteen percent of your sales as income. Serving is hard work and very demanding it often requires long hours on your feet with little break and down time. I wish you could step in someone's shoes for one week and I bet you would not last. Unless, you have working in the industry you have no room to comment.
i've have come across many people who earn tip for a living and they usually can't get any banks to finance them due to no proof of actual income, just their base pay.... that's the real down side... plus those people in that industry usually don't have a good established credit.
Wow. This whole chain of posts is a wonderful picture of the American Pie. We have people who work in the industry explaining a system they work under. We self proclaimed economists and politicians blaming one party for the way an industry operates (ironically the 'party' that is known for industry enforcement blames the 'party' known for less govt interaction for creating and enforcing such a "terrible" system according to these posts) and we have a section of our population that believe they are above the poor lowly trash that brings them their food, water and clearly could never have received or be working towards a college degree (despite our stereotype of wait staffs being students).
Why has our system never been changed? The tipping system allows someone working in the food service industry to make $30/hr. That's why. To the litany of nurses posting on here (who apparently have nothing better to do?) your complaint seems valid – they make more than you in a position you feel requires less skill (maybe it does, maybe it doesn't – Im no nurse, but Ive been an EMT). The difference is that yes, in the 1 hour you ate there that person made $30/hr but the two hours before you arrived they made maybe $4/hr. While I currently do not work in the industry both of my room mates do – and while the one brings home $100 a day, she works 9 hour shifts. That means really she makes $11.11/hr – at a job that she didnt get to sit down and read CNN.com at ~ mind you working 6 days a week and going to college full time and living with 2 other people in a small apartment so that maybe down the road she can get a job like yours. Having said that, yes, she still makes more money than my other room mate, who works in the kitchen as the second highest paid employee where he works.
Reality is simple. Yes, the industry is hard. Yes, gratuity pays salary which often surpasses basic wage but its no guarantee. Yes some serving staff are high school drop outs, others have masters degrees. I have never been an accountant, but woe is I should I say that we should pay CPAs less because any 5th grader can do math. In the 2 years I worked at a major hospital my conclusion was doctors worked less than nurses – who while having much of the same education and knowledge – applied it even less. Serving people is a skill, as much as driving a bus, delivering medications, filling our HR forms, and teaching your children is.
Like I said before – the system allows someone to occasionally make $30/hr – it also keeps your costs down and your favorite food establishment open. Restaurants are the worst start up, ask any bank. They make very little money (at first if ever). If you don't believe me look at why most of the big chains are owned by the same few companies. They become profitable when you have many of them. Only one person caught on that allowing a $2/hr wage allows restaurants to keep 10 servers an hour on the floor at the cost of 2 at minimum wage. Imagine how pissed off you would be if you went to Chillies and there were only 3 servers, no bussers or hosts. If you thought 30 minutes for food was bad just wait. The system exists because its the best model – the staff has a chance to make good money, the company keeps low overhead and the customer can be an entitled snob. Proof lies in other countries – where everyone says its nice not to tip but their service is terrible.
Should everyone receive a working wage – yes. Will that ever happen – no. The Soviets attempted that, it didn't work. It doesn't even work like that in China. What makes our country great is the possibility of a better offer. Reality (especially in today's economy) is that often those working at a restaurant work there because they got hired after applying to hundreds of other jobs. My room mate hates coming home smelling like BBQ, but rent is due. Serving tables offers the chance to make great money, often it just evens out with the salary of other like positions at best buy, starbucks or walmart. I sold insurance once, some agents make 6 figures, others eek out a living.
Get over yourselves. Our society believes you should tip your servers. Just pay it. You are willing to pay $14 for a ticket to see Batman (which is the same movie remade for a third time) but you wont drop a few extra dollars for someone who wait on you? If you got popcorn ... yea.
Best post on this!! Amen brother!!
American Veteran you said doctors work less than nurses and get paid more and have "same education and knowledge"- you are ignorant to the education and training doctors go through to call themselves "doctors"- yes , we, nurses, work very hard but our depth of knowledge and training does not compare to a doctors. The tips should be optional and the amount a personal choice based of level of service provided.
Disclaimer: If you don't want to read my rant, please skip to the last paragraph. You've been warned.
I have done 12 years of university-level and graduate studies, have over $120 000 in debt (thanks, school!) and work as a medical resident. This means I have worked 36 (yes, THIRTY-SIX) hour shifts STRAIGHT and my on-call stipend (when I'm confined to the hospital, can't leave, even to get food (not even coffee!), and don't sleep) ends up to LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE. Most times I don't even get a thank you. Thank you, for taking the extra time to explain our grandmother's next-day surgery plans to us in the middle of the night because we just arrived from the airport, or get her a warm blanket, or to call different pharmacies to track down her medication list because she can't remember....and for somehow still managing a smile.
I get paid less than minimum wage to save your loved one's life – maybe even your life. Most of the time I don't even get a thank you, let alone a tip. I would work an extra job if I could – but I don't have time for a relationship, exercise, or often a haircut. So I guess applying as a server is out of the question. Although I'm sure I would be great at multi-tasking and keeping my composure with tough customers (lots of experience with that one – gunshot wounds, violent patients, death threats...)
I am not a cheapskate. I also provide for my father, who is ill, and help out my sister, who is at college. Sometimes I want to eat out to remind myself that that is what regular folks do. Sure, I may have the pasta instead of the lobster (sorry for the smaller tip) but I'm pretty sure eating at McDonalds isn't good for me. Also, I'm pretty sure there must be a law somewhere about sleep-cooking (much like sleep-walking, only with fire.)
I believe it should be illegal to pay servers (and busboys and waitstaff and hosts/hostesses) less than minimum wage. If they have to declare and pay tax on 12% of their sales- then actually make that their wage. And price your food accordingly. This would protect servers from getting short-changed. Maybe then I would feel like my tips are actually recognizing someone for good service, rather than just paying their wage. Would I still eat out? You betcha, especially if the alternative is me burning the house down :) Maybe one day, I will be able to actually get a job (now where are all those golden doctor jobs just waiting to be plucked from the air like ripe peaches?!?!) that allows me to pay off my student debt, set up a retirement account/health benefits/disability insurance (isn't it great to be a small-business owner?!) and maybe, just maybe, go on a date and have lobster once in a while?
@A.V.: very well said. i do believe in fair compensation for fair service. that is how they make their living. bad service lower tip, good to great service higher tip......however i don't like the hover waiters, they just annoy me.
So true! I like to eat out. I also tip at 20%. These people work their butts off, and they're on their feet all day long. I think everyone should be a server in a restaurant to understand what it's really like. (I was). You'll be a lot more appreciative. And sure, sometimes you have bad service, but that's when you talk to the restaurant manager, if it is not resolved, you don't leave a tip. I lived in Europe, where tipping is automatically included in the bill, and the service there is a lot worse than here.
That is one of the best posts I have ever read, not just for this article but in my *lifetime.* Thank you for your cogent, thoughtful and non-emotional analysis.
I know what restaurant I WONT be going to!
If I was an ambulance chasing lawyer, I would jump on this with a large spoon and start digging in. This entire group can file individual lawsuits against this corporation for unlawful imprisonment. Betcha they settle out of court!
It was unlawful imprisonment, and I'll bet that after this story has time to circulate, some lawyer will contact the family.
I hate those automatic gratuities, because I've often found the service to be very inadequate. I mean, if they already know they are getting a huge tip, why bother to break a sweat going the extra mile?
We had a pizza restaurant try to stick us with an 18-percent "gratuity." I pointed out to the waitress that it's not stated on the menu. She said, "Well, it's sort of an 'industry standard' to charge that."
I asked, "So, it you want to arbitrarily raise the prices mid-meal, is that o.k. too?"
She said, "Huh?"
I told her, "If it's not stated on the menu, you can't charge it."
She removed the extra tips.
One more thing. She also failed to mention the 18-percent gratuity even after my in-laws and others at the table had CLEARLY left around $20 in tips in plain sight of the waitress. When everyone realized that she was trying to double-dip, we ALL took our tips up. In the end, the waitress got around $4 (My mother-in-law thought she was nearly brain-dead and took pity on her.)
Wow, way to go on CNN and wave a banner that says "I'm gross white trash."
You go to a 'pizza place' and argue semantics with a waittress that is paid less than minimum wage because it isn't 'printed on the menu' that when you eat out you leave your server a tip. If you can't afford to leave a generous tip (Obviously you cannot) then you cannot afford to eat out. Stay at home and eat sh*t casserole you trash.
Joshua, you obviously are not well educated. So let me give it a try.
TIP: To Insure Prompt service
The whole purpose of the TIP concept was to help ensure the service was quick, complete, and provided a *good seat*. There is *NO* requirement to pay a tip, it is a GRATUITY. In other words, a GIFT to a person because their service PLEASED you.
There are times I have left 1 CENT as a tip. This showed the TIP was not overlooked, but INTENDED to state my opinion of their effort. This has nothing to do with "can I afford" to pay the tip. It's a matter of if they DESERVE the tip. I don't care if it's a 5-star restaurant or a slop house. If my water glass stays empty, if my meal is delivered cold, if they attitude of the server SUX, then I don't give a large TIP. Remember, it's To Insure Prompt service.
TIP does NOT (for the last time) mean "To Insure Prompt Service." It doesn't even make sense because to insure something, you'd have to pay it up front and get your money back if the service was bad. The word you're looking for is "ensure" and that wouldn't work (TEP).
However, you are right about the purpose of a tip. It's a gratuity. A gift. It's not required. Legally, you do not have to pay a tip to anyone ever. It's expected in the industry, and if you want to eat at a restaurant more than once and have good service and no spit in your food you should pay it, but legally gratuity is your choice.
From the post, it sounds like they went to the pizza place expecting to tip their server. What they didn't expect because it wasn't stated was that it was automatically added to their bill for them. They protested and the waitress removed the automatic tip. At that point, they should have just left what they thought was fair for the service for the meal.
For 17% on one check they just lost thousands in potential business. NOT BRIGHT.
True. Soooooooo foolish.
My guess is that whoever locked them in is now out looking for another job.
There's a simple solution to the issue of wages in the food service industry. Don't take the job, and don't let others accept it if the pay is not worth working for. A restaurant that cannot or will not pay servers a wage sufficient to live on does not deserve to operate. No wonder people will choose welfare first.
Where I live, minimum wage, regardless of the sector, is over $10 an hour; so anything above 15% would seem almost excessive. But tips can and do often exceed that amount. There's no expectation either way, however, there will always be an incentive to earn more money. Restaurants following or embracing wage laws that allow a lowered base rate for "tipped" employees actually hurt the food service industry by attracting less-qualified employees, discouraging employee development and training, undermining the relationship between customer and server, and quite possibly fraudulently collecting additional revenue through the autotip system (we don't know how much the server is getting from that, though I suspect it's rather less than the full amount.)
If I bring a larger party to a restaurant, I'm bringing a large number of voices to the review pool as well as greater revenue. Restaurants do _not_ want five (or more) people complaining about poor service from a single incident. If a larger party cannot be accommodated by a restaurant, then I'd prefer to be advised of that beforehand rather than to be served grudgingly and then slapped with a previously-unadvertised service charge disguised as an automatic tip. One will keep that restaurant an open option for me if I should later choose to eat out with a smaller party; the other, while getting at least part of my money for that meal (depending on my tolerance of what I've experienced), will end forever my and my friends' business relationship with that establishment, and likely kill that business.
Heres an Idea –
DONT give this place a DIME- obviously they are RUDE, or the people would not have been offended.
email this place DIRECTLY: http://www.la-fisherman.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&Itemid=152
I hope their doors close and they are REQUIRED to change their selfserving attitudes- tip THAT!
By forcing the patrons to pay the tip by putting it on the bill restaurants are giving the patrons no way to show displeasure at the service and no incentive for the staff to give good service. I ran into that recently with horrible service. The restaurant did win in a way because I just paid the bill. I will never return to that restaurant and tell everyone I can about my bad experience and advise them never to eat there.
I also will never go to restaurants that force me to use valet parking. It is not a convenience for me if you force me to have the immature reckless brat that you hired driving my car. I will NEVER subject my car to that type of abuse.
This is off-topic, but I'll bite. The vast majority of the time, valet parking is required because there is an extremely limited amount of parking space, so cars have to be double (or triple) parked in order for them to fit. The "immature reckless brats" serving as valets have driven more cars than you would in a dozen lifetimes, including luxury sportscars, monster trucks, and Hummers. They are parking the car for you because (a) they will do a better job than you, (b) they will keep other inexperienced drivers from similarly crashing into your car, and (c) you won't have to get up 100 times during the meal to move your car. Now let's argue about what they should be tipped!!
I worked as a server full time for a number of years. Early on, it was easy to be disappointed at receiving a less than expected tip for perfect service (what I expected as a tip depended on what type of restaurant I was working in: casual, %15 – fine dining, %20) until I realized that even if I was completely stiffed on a $400 check, the amount that that affected my yearly income was negligible, and wasn't worth my anger. I'm surprised most patrons can't come to the same conclusion. You hurt a business more by denying them your repeat business – and what percentage of your yearly income are you haggling about? (don't forget to include the value of your untaxed benefits). I'm not saying you don't have a case for being upset about a gratuity your perceive to be unearned, but seriously, save yourself the anger and hassle, pay it and never go back, and tell your friends not to go there.
Although I don't object to the mandatory tip on large parties, the customer needs to be warned at the time of booking, not surprised at the end of the meal. I bet in this particular instant, there will be people losing their jobs, both servers and management because this story is business killer for this one establishment.
oops I meant 'instance'
I'd love to know where you got 15% from casual dining. I was getting less than 10%, and we were taxed for 15% no matter what we made. People act like it's no big deal if they don't leave tip, but it's a HUGE deal. Not only are you making $2.13 an hour for the time you spent waiting on them, you actually end up owing money because you're taxed even if they didn't tip you at all. I think there are some places that rely on people to report tips, but just as many or more do automatic taxing based on how much food you served. I had a party of 10 or 12 once tip me exactly $1. And yes, I gave them good service and was devoted to only their table the entire time they were there. That hard work actually cost me money. Auto-tipping should happen no matter what the size of the party. Some people are just sickos.
What are you saying, that you actually have to pay taxes on your earned income? Welcome to the real world, we all have to. How can you say that you lost money because of a dollar tip? You earn an hourly wage just like the rest of us. Why do food servers deserve tips anymore than the rest of society that work in customer service? I think it's absurd that a tip is expected in any line of work, it's called a gratuity and should be given as an expression of appreciation, not an automatic given. You may think you worked hard for those customers but did they think the same thing? I'm sure there are customers who don't want to tip and that's why it shouldn't be an expected part of your job, and this is to everyone not just you.
No, genius, they were saying that many restaurants will automatically report a 15% tip income based on your sales. Meaning that if you had a table with a $100 check, the government is told that you received $15 as income. If that table stiffs the server, the server is being taxed on income they did not receive. I waited tables for years and I never looked at an automatic gratuity as an excuse to give bad service. I felt that most customers were nice, normal people, but there certainly were some awful, abusive, hostile people, and even in the best circumstances, waiting tables and providing a good experience for your customers is very demanding work. I don't understand this attitude people seem to have that servers are evil, lazy, and rolling in unreported millions....I reported all of my tips. And yes, there were times that I did pay to go to work after getting shafted by tables.
TJROX??? nah you dont rock!! ...you have no idea what you are spewing...welcome to the real world!! these people are paid $2.15-$5.00/hour depending...and you think they are rolling in the dough when they get a $1.00 tip...like the other poster says... they get taxed by the IRS on an "estimated tip"...they "estimate" you are going to average 15% and they will tax you that amount...and ALL charged tips go towards that 15% most of the time what the server is paid(salary) gets taken in TAXES!!...MAYBE YOU PEA BRAIN CAN REFLECT ON THAT BIT OF TRUE INFO!!
I think there are good reasons for adding an automatic tip for waiting on a very large party, but if the service is poor, then the host should talk to the manager, and the manager should reduce the amount (and offer an apology) if the complaint seems justified.
Adding a required payment for service is not a tip, it is not a gratuity, it's a service charge.
If I were running a restaurant and a patron complained after a meal that they got bad service and didn't want to pay for the service I'd make sure they didn't pay and I'd offer them free food or a bottle of wine or even a whole meal to make up for it. Happy customers are worth more than that tip would have been. How much could it be?
I checked the place's Yelp reviews and the service gets knocked quite a bit.
Look at the horrible publicity the place has gotten since this incident. Sounds like bad management to me.
I pretty much run from one extreme to the next in regards to tipping. If I have superior service, which I consider to be a pleasant, professional, knowledgeable, courteous, and attentive server, I will leave a forty to fifty percent gratuity. If I have mediocre service (pleasant, but perhaps not knowledgeable, experienced, or as attentive as they should be), I will leave twenty to twenty five percent gratuity. If I have a server who is just plain bad (incompetent, inattentive, unprofessional), I usually leave ten to fifteen percent. For a rude server, I will leave five percent. The server often complements the meal and really can make or break the dining experience. It is incumbent on the server to provide superior service and always be on their game, but it is equally incumbent on the patron or customer to recognize superior service and to compensate accordingly. I have lost respect for family friends who treat service staff with disdain, especially superior service personnel. I will not tolerate disrespect to those superior service persons.
As my name states, I am a well off individual, who often pays 50% or more in tips to those in the service industry who work hard and show me respect during my meal.
That being said, I also should have the right (which I have exercised on multiple occasions) to go below the 15% – sometimes leaving nothing for someone who didn't deserve it.
If that were me, I would have called the police on those detaining me. I work hard for my money, and I believe that those in the service industry should as well.
Isn't that called "false imprisonment"? Isn't that a criminal offense? Not only would I press criminal charges against this establishment, but I would also seek punitive damages as well.
According to Wikipedia:
The following are false imprisonment scenarios.
The taking hostage of a bank's customers and employees by bank robbers.
The detention of a customer by a business owner (e.g., hotel operator, apartment owner, credit card company) for the failure to pay a bill.
While I am impressed with your ability to research Wiki-peeeeeeeeeeedia, Nancy, I find the lack of euphemisms somewhat.....lacking. If my son weren't dressed in a sailor's outfit, I'd give it to you. NAY! I would PRESENT it to you, with all the rainbows and skittles to boot! Whaddya say sport? Just give me a 'Honk, Honk' like when we were kids on the road trip we all hated as kids. Go on. I'll wait.
Wwwwwhat? Prime example of a lot of words which say nothing at all.
You must be on the same drugs Nancy Polosi uses.
I smell Truth.
I don't mind paying a gratuity for larger parties. As noted above: "The server will sometimes have a larger table as their sole focus for the duration of the meal, and won't be making tips from any other tables." A problem presents itself in one of these (or more scenarios): 1) Management assigns the server to additional tables as well (some across the restaurant), deterring PROMPT service and in a few cases causing wrong/incomplete orders to the table paying the AUTO gratuity. 2) Service is NOT stellar, this could be caused by many different factors, however if a person is getting paid "extra" automatically well then where is the incentive to impress... I am by NO means generalizing that all servers are "lazy" when working large parties. I've had the pleasure of being served by some top rate professionals who went out of their way to make the evening enjoyable for our party and the tables that he/she also worked in the parties section. In this respect I had NO problem paying the auto gratuity I've also slipped extra money ($40+) into the main servers hands as well. It is a tough position for them to be in, between the manager(s) and the customers, and we all know pleasing EVERYONE is just not possible. :standing ovation: to those who take pride in their work. Thank you!
The person that made up the saying that "all publicity is good publicity" wasn't talking about the restaurant business. I'm gonna remember the name of this joint...and not in a good way. I'm no cheap tipper, but I like to have the option of sticking to 15% if the service was unsatisfactory. Actually, if i'm not impressed with the drinks and the appetizer, I'm out the door.
The dictionary definition of Gratuity; "(Noun) A gift, usually of money, given in return for services rendered." Gifts are provided without obligation. In the context of a restaurant, a Gratuity is usually provided to the serving staff as a reward for service. Better service=greater reward. No or popor service = no gratuity. A "Mandatory gift" is an oxymoron. If it's mandatory, it's not a gift. If it's a gift, it can't be mandatory. Any restaurant that charges a mandatory gratuity is guilty of 'bait and switch' in that they advertise one price and bill another. Call it what it is; a service charge, even when the service is poor!
Auto gratuities are a contract for service. If service is insufficient, the restaurant should bow down, as the contract was broken on their part.
By confronting, imprisoning, and threatening they just earned a lawsuit.
I haven't read all of the comments, but I have not yet seen where someone pointed out the greatest failing of the restaurant - when the patrons asked to talk to a manager, no one came to talk to them.
That combined with unlawful imprisonment by detaining the party behind locked doors should have at least resulted in some sort of refund and a hefty apology.
I worked for over a decade as a fine dining waiter and I understand the dependency of wait staff on tips, I also understand that there are reasons you would have an automatic gratuity, but I can't fathom why you would not provide good service or how you could justify not having management available to hear the customer's complaint.
there are laws against forcible confinement and extortion. Charge the restaurant owner for this criminal act.
make the restaurant pay their staff a fair wage, and the tip is optional, a way for the patron to express gratitude for good service.
I'm sorry, but I have to just put tightwad people in their place. With bad service being the exception, if you can't afford to tip your server (especially for good service), then DO NOT GO OUT TO EAT, period. More often than not, servers are given the short end of the stick with $1 and $2 tips for parties of 20 people, and it's these despicable excuses for human beings who usually run the server's butt off for extra napkins and everything under the sun, let alone lemons and sugar (because they're too cheap to order a drink). These automatic gratuity policies would not exist if it weren't for stingy, ungrateful people who are always looking to get something for nothing.
I have read through most of the posts for this topic and it appears that everyone has very specific thoughts one way or the other about tipping.
My question to all servers is this: What is your job that you get paid for by the company for whom you work? If it's to take orders and deliver food to customers then you are already being paid for that by your employer, regardless of how much that is. You agreed that you would accept those wages for that specific job. Any tip that you may get from a customer is a gift that is given by someone who quite likely believes you have done something over and above what your job calls for you to do.
I don't know about everyone else, but I don't tip employees in the clothing store (as an example) who do so much more than their job in finding just what I'm looking for. I purchase the garment and understand that they may or may not receive a commission from their employer for their service. Wouldn't it be sensible to suggest that restaurants do the same thing? Charge me more for the meal and reward employees that produce sales. Don't make me the "bad guy" about the amount of a tip (gift) that I choose to leave, if any. Since when did a tip become a "given" as part of the cost of my meal? If that were true, it would automatically be added to every check, regardless of the size of the party and not left to an individual's discretion.
Do not mistake the right of a customer to determine if they choose to give you a gift as someone who's a "cheapskate" or not. It quite likely has nothing to do with whether or not someone can afford to eat out. They are simply free to evaluate your service and choose what they do with their money. You just don't like it.
You certainly have the right not to leave a tip. However, the cultural norm in our country is to do so for services rendered at a restaurant. Its simple social ettiquite. Failing to do so makes you look like an ass. If people cannot afford a proper gratuity (15-20%), or feel that is an excessive amount, stay home.
And a waiter's wages are usually artificially low because the expected take of gratuity is factored in. Keep that in mind the next time you eat out somewhere.
Please don't breed....cheapskate.
well first of all...they accept a job that pays about half or less of the min.wage...the IRS taxes them as if they make 15% on EVERY TABLE...so if they are tipped less than that 15% they are liable for the taxes on the full 15% the IRS says they make!! you have no idea how it works...it seems you dont care either...it cannot be compared to a retail worker my friend!! Most servers do work hard and i have tipped up to 50% on some meals where i run them ragged and they have given me great service...Jsut sayin!!!
I have a right not to pay a tip for bad service but I never leave nothing. There were 2 or 3 occasions where I did leave only a penny just to show the waiter/waitress that I was displeased and did not forget.
On 1 of those occasions the waitress took my order and then disappeared. I had to go up to the counter and get my own food that was getting cold under the lights and refill my own drink. The waitress did finally reappear 45 minutes later explaining that she had to go out to eat with her boyfriend.
Another time I walked out of a restaurant without even paying the bill over 20 years ago. The waiter in that case took my order for my drinks and food. After not receiving either my drink or food for an hour, I just left and have never returned to any restaurants in that chain. I felt that I should not have to pay for food that I never received.
BTW .... My normal tip is $2 for every $10 or 20% adjusted up or down by the level of service. If I am at a table longer than normal for my reasons that amount normally gets an upward adjustment. If a restaurant includes the tip in the bill I just pay that amount which is probably less than I would have left if they let me decide the amount of the tip.
If a tip is forced, I won't tip more than what is forced, often losing you money as I tend to go 20% when I'm completely happy. Most places tend to force 16 to 18%.
That being said, if you force a tip, I expect beyond excellent service. If I don't get that, I will most certainly be having a talk with management to get the tip lowered or removed to a value I feel is appropriate. It doesn’t take much to get me to my 20% level. Keep my drinks filled, be prompt and courteous. Smile and pretend you care even if you don’t. I’ve thankfully only had one dinner service where I left a penny on a napkin with the word “Tip” on it just to make sure the waiter knew what I thought of their service.
I work as a server part-time (and I work pretty hard at it, I might add). If you can't afford to tip your server, then don't go out to eat, period. It is more common than not for large parties to cheat their server out of a decent gratuity, especially one that they worked for. Bad service is one reason to NOT tip, that part I get. But don't be a complete jerk by not respecting an establishment's policies; they may appear ridiculous to John Q. Public, but you have cheapskates to thank as to why these policies exist in the first place.
TIPS = TO INSURE PROMPT SERVICE. They are not another 'entitlement' program. If you received bad service, the restaurant should be willing to negotiate on the tip.
"If you can't afford to tip your server, then don't go out to eat, period."
Preach so hard on this, Please. I used to be a server myself. Once, a large party (12-15 ppl) came in just before we closed. The place I worked at had an auto-grat of 18% on large parties (8+) - only added with manager authorization. When the guy got his bill he said, "Eighteen percent?? That's more than I give God!". He complained to the manager (who had put the autograt on) and got the whole tip removed and I got no tip from those rude people who ran me ragged well past closing time. I ended up having to pay because their large group increased my total sales for the night, the total of which decided how much i had to tip out bussers and bartenders.
Don't bring a bunch of people to a sit-down restaurant and ask for stuff constantly and then act surprised when you get a bill or have to tip. You don't work for free, why would you expect servers to?
Anybody bothered to look up where the term "tip" comes from, yet" "t is from "To Insure Promptness". The whole idea is incentive to perform well, not fund the base pay. The system is broken when that base pay is so low that mandatory tips are required to adequately compensate the staff. Auto-tip is just another trick to boost the profits of the restaurant without the menu price looking too high. I question the whole false imprisonment thing. I actually served on a jury a few years back here in Houston where a black family took a local restaurant to court on a similar complaint. They lost due to lack of credible evidence. So I am not giving the complainant a freebie on that.
It does not come from "to insure promptness." You'd know that if you'd bothered to look it up in the Oxford English Dictionary.
My argument with this practice is that a mandatory fee no longer falls within the definition of a gratuity.
So what do you thin TIP stands for then? I've always understood it stand for To Insure Promptness. And that is what determines the percentage I tip - friendliness and promptness.
Tip does not mean "To Insure Promptness." If you had even the most basic grasp of the English language, you'd realize that. If it meant "to INSURE promptness," you'd pay it at the beginning of the meal; it would be an INSURANCE policy on prompt service, and if you didn't receive prompt service, you would be paid a sum for damages.
Insure: (Verb)
1. Arrange for compensation in the event of damage to or loss of (property), or injury to or the death of (someone), in exchange for...: "the car is insured for loss or damage"
2. Provide insurance coverage.
Ensure: (Verb)
1. Make certain that (something) shall occur or be the case.
2. Make certain of obtaining or providing (something).
Tip:
1. (Noun) A sum of money given to someone as a way of rewarding them for their services.
2. (Verb) Give (someone) a sum of money as a way of rewarding them for their services.
Absolutely brilliant. Well said. :)
Boo-ya!
When TIP was originally used in England during the 17th century a person would enter a inn or pub and put coins in a box by the door. The more coins, the louder the noise they made, the better service you received. The english language has evolved since then and we now have two words where there used to be only one. Unfortunately the use of tip has also evolved and it is considered a requirement no matter how bad (or good) the service is to give 20%. This means there is no incentive on the part of the waitstaff to give good service.
If you are charged an automatic gratuity make sure the percentage is BEFORE taxes! You don't want to tip 17% on top of the 11% tax they are charging you! Watch closely.
How cheap are you that you're so concerned about what amounts to 1.87%?
perfect reply matt. These are the type of people servers dread seeing sit down at their table. Most servers remember faces (especially of bad tippers) and one bad tip on decent service will lead to poor service in the future. Everyone should remember the number one rule: never be rude to people who handle your food....even in fine dining
Really? Really? "Leave me money or I'll poison your food?"
It's no wonder quality has declined.
We recently went to a buffet brunch at a halfway decent restaurant and were surprised by a 17% mandatory gratuity. We paid it but were a little surprised about that for a buffet and a party of four. I worked in the service industry for awhile and always tip well, but this seemed a bit excessive.
What would be better is paying the service staff a livable wage, not forcing them to rely on 'tips' all the time. I moved to Australia 12 yrs ago, and no tipping here, but all service staff get good wages. If the minimum wage in the US had kept up with cost of living, wait staff would be earning over $15 an hour. And don't believe if it goes that high that it will put places out of business. That argument was used before each and every minimum wage hike, and if anything every business saw a huge increase in business.
Amen. You can't imagine how many servers end up owing money (yes!) to their employers because the taxes taken out of their salary exceed the amount of their paychecks. The US is so backasswards with the whole wage thing for servers.
I do agree that the standard argument does not hold water. For restaurants in particular, some of your best patrons are either current or former waiters – you know they have developed an appreciation for dining out.
Henry Ford decided to pay his workers on the first auto assembly line better than he needed to (there was a severe scarcity of jobs at the time) because he knew if he paid them enough they would also be his customers – and he was right.
Everything depends on the service. If I go to a restaurant that has auto-gratuity I'd pay that and more if the server was awesome. If the service sucked, well what can you do? I would just pay it and not go back. Auto-gratuity should be set at 15%. I don't have money to throw around, but I'm usually a good tipper. I double the tax which is 17.5% and add change to make the payment even for ok service. If it was some stellar service I'll usually pay 20-25%
I am okay with auto-grats, but I really think that the standard should be for 8 or more guests, not 6 or more. A lot of families are 6 people, for crying out loud! When I was a server, if I had a party of 6 that was obviously just one family, I wouldn't bother with auto-gratuity, because a family eating out isn't the same as a "large party." A large party generally stays a while longer than just dinner, orders multiple appetizers and desserts, and often splits up the tab 2 or 3 or more ways.
In any case, I think it's important for people to realize that once parties hit the 10 person mark, a lot of restaurants will assign two servers to the table, and the "primary" server's other tables may be given away. So when the party tips 18%, each server actually gets 9%. I think customers would do well to inquire ahead of time if they are unsure whether gratuity will automatically be added (really, the server should inform them of this at the very beginning of the meal – I always did, and it always seemed to go over very well). There's really no reason to hate it, unless you actually receive poor service, and if your service is really that bad, you should inform a manager BEFORE the end of the meal! Request a different server, request the auto gratuity be removed, request a correction to whatever problem you're having...whatever you need to do. There's no reason you should suffer in silence until the very end of the meal; you deserve to enjoy your dining experience, and the server deserves to know how you're feeling about the service.
My issue with this practice is that restaurants seem to be making the groups smaller and smaller. I don't think a party of 5 should have an auto-tip. A party of 8 or more seems more like a reasonable number.
I don't have a problem with the practice of charging for groups. However, the service should be exemplary. And the idea of locking patrons in the restaurant is abhorrent. It sounds like false imprisonment to me. How dare they? This looks like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Who is flagging these comments? Amerikkka is out in full force up in here. Shame on CNN
I usually tip 20% if the service is good. Even with a large party, though, if the service is bad, the restaurant should be willing to accept a lesser gratuity.
If you do your job you get 15%, if you do your job well, are friendly, etc you get more than 15%. If you do your job poorly you get less than 15%. I also take into account that the kitchen can cause delays in service, food prep, etc and won't punish the server for that.
People don't seem to understand that tips constitute payment for service. If you want to go out to eat, and have someone bring your food to you, expect to tip. The amount displayed on the check only reflects the amount of money necessary to pay for food and drinks. If you want someone to take your order and bring you the food and drinks you request, then you need to pay them for it. If you do not want to tip accordingly, then stay at home or eat fast food. In reference to the story above, was anyone else not surprised that the people refusing to tip were black?
No, I wasn't surprised, although I wish that weren't the case. While growing up through graduation from b-school, I heard that "blacks don't tip well" but I chalked it up to prejudice because I had no personal experience as a server. When I got my first job at a Fortune 100 company, a group of colleagues went out to lunch and the African American woman began the meal by laying several dollar bills on the table and informing the waitress that every time she was given poor service, $1 would be taken away. I am sad to say that at every business meal that I've since attended with black co-workers, at a minimum that co-worker has insisted on a low tip (10-15%) if not outright berated the rest of us for being too generous. I don't know why this seems to be such a cultural gap. Europeans and Australians who visit the U.S. sometimes tip poorly (or not at all), but that's because they have a very different compensation scheme for servers in their countries. I think anyone who grows up in the U.S. and understands what tips are expected, only comes across as rude and ignorant when they are so tight-fisted and nasty to the hardworking servers.
Executive, I honestly don't know how to respond to what you posted. I am African-American, and I have never left a small tip. If anything, I leave too much. I typically leave 25-50% of the check amount, regardless of the service. I've never had anyone say anything like that to me. Maybe the people that you have some across were not raised in an honorable manner. All the African Americans that I deal and have dealt with tip on the same manner.
Wow, WOW. I really get a kick out of your moniker... but I must say that I hope that the bills you are paying 50% tip on aren't the huge $400 checks that one can see at some restaurants. That could get heavy on the wallet.
But, the industry standard for the U.S. is 20%, and I have paid quite a bit more than that (up to 100%) when all I bought was a cup of coffee somewhere, got conversation with that cup of coffee and couldn't bring myself to leave 20% or what used to be a 50¢ cup of joe because I didn't have enough pennies on me.
When coffee went up to $1.00, I started leaving anything from 50¢ to $1.00 if that cup of coffee was all I bought, because by then, I couldn't bring myself to leave two dimes since it looked too much like the statement against the waitress that some people did with the penny (which I always thought was sooooo rude.) At least two quarters on that one cup of coffee seemed more appropriate and if I got conversation with that cup, it was well worth the $1.00.
But, I have never paid more than about 22-25% for a full meal and that higher than the 20% standard was generally because the 20% came out to some odd number that involved too much change or because the cash I had didn't include enough $1.00 bills to make it to 20% and no more. Has always seemed tacky to get too rigid about the percentage - as tacky as to go too cheap on the tip, in my opinion. With credit cards, now though, we don't have to deal in the hard cash at all if we don't want to do so and sometimes I take advantage of that option - other times, in some restaurants where I suspect that the waitress may not get her tips (for one lurking co-worker reason or another) I will give the tip ion cash DIRECTLY to the waitress even if I have to hunt her down before leaving.
But, I must say that your standard tips are definitely out of the ordinary and cause me to imagine that the wait staff of your favorite eateries must get all excited when they see you coming. My father would tip in that range when he got too drunk (if he didn't spend too much on the liquor before paying the tips...)
There are pros and cons to everything. Enjoyed your comment.
Tipping is not a requirement, that’s why it’s called a gratuity.
You said that tips constitute payment for service. Actually, that’s why you get a base wage….to do a base job. You’re providing a customer service and your wage to provide that is already built into the cost of the food. Receiving a tip is based solely on the opinion of the customer to determine whether they think you’ve gone above and beyond expectations in providing that service to them. It is THAT simple. How much tip you receive, again, is left to be determined by the customer. There is no ‘set amount’ when it comes to tipping. There’s an average we generally go by as a standard. But with everyone having been raised differently, there’s no guarantee on what that average percentage is to absolutely everyone. That’s the risk you take when you’re in that industry. But if you can (or at least try to) treat just about everyone that comes in to your establishment like they are at your own kitchen table…chances are, you’ll walk away with a pretty percentage in your pocket.
Servers here in Georgia make $2.13/hour. Is that really a base wage? In addition they often have to give bartenders and bussers a percentage of their total sales. So, if a patron doesn't tip the server actually pays to wait on you.
Waiters get paid just like anybody else who works tips should be totally on excellent service ,,, not force pay if the waiters are just workin for tips it should be stated so and the food should cost less
Not so – I come grom two generations of waitreses and a family that includes retauranteurs. Standared minimum wage does not apply to tipped professions in a number of states. It is entirely up to the management as to what they pay their servers, beyond the minimum wage for a tipped profession which often is less than $3 an hour. It is the practice of restaurants to leave it up to their patrons to directly pay for service, rather than you paying for your meal and mgt paying the waitstaff from the profits.
Servers get paid less than $2.50 per hour in Wisconsin, which is not enough to even cover the taxes on my "check." Tips are the only way we make money, and claiming that everything else on top of the "base pay" is extra or bonus is just ignorant.
Food is being over inflated by unchecked speculators. This gives servers an undeserved pay raise, their patrons didn't get.
If the average diner check rises from $35.00 to $135.00 in one year, that 17% tip goes from $6.00 to $22.00 for no extra effort on their part, and their patrons certainly didn't get a 300% pay increase for the year.
IT was 15% for ever, and food prices have inflated, but somehow along the way, the servers have given them selves a percent increase and it changes depending on where you go, anywhere from 18% to as much as 30%.
Then there's the silly suggested tiers on the check, just do a good job and I'll tip accordingly, I would rather tip you jackquat if you provided worse service than I could have gotten up and got it my self from a self serve joint.
Which when in the heck, did buffet places employees expect a tip. I think people need to talk to the guy that employs them, they are running a scam on them, under paying them in hopes that "I" the hard cash paying customer will pay more than is customary.
This is all the more reason, the only people that eat out anymore are the morons that can't cook.
We usually just go with the 18% for large parties. However, I have personally disputed the mandatory gratuity with my credit card company for a very bad server experience. Most credit card company will side with their client. If you are not disputing the products (i.e., food) received but is disputing the service fee they're charging but you did not receive then you have a good chance of getting that 18% refunded by your credit card company.
I can't figure out when it graduated to 20% being a base amount! You start at 10% and step up accordingly. If you give poor service, 0. Nada. Of course, it depends on the restaurant. You Applebees folks be glad you get 10%!
What are you, Mormon? Gratuity for perfect service is %20. Not %10, %20. If you can't afford to tip the person bringing you your food, napkins, etc and 'waiting' on you (hence the name 'waitstaff'), stay home and wait on yourself. What is %10 of a $200 meal for two people? $20. If you're spending $200 for food, why WOULDN'T you spend a little extra for perfect service? If it's not perfect, that's fine. Leave a smaller tip. If it's awful, don't leave a tip. But at least start your cheapskate scale where it should be... Or stay home.
My minimum tip is $2, and I always tip 20% for good service and better for great service but my experience has been the restaurants that add the auto gratuity for groups of 8 or more I have have never had issues. Every single restaurant I have been to that added the auto gratuity for groups less than 8 people I have always had not just bad service but extremely bad service.
When I run into those I always talk to the manager and tell them that I made the tip 20% instead of 18% since they will need the money after I explain in detail the service I received on that visit, if it was a bad night and a good manager they kick in some type of compensation, if they do not I never eat there again.
Here is what my wife and I do regarding restaurants and tips:
1) I put the tip in cash. I do not put it on my credit card. If they add it to my credit card, I ask to speak to the manager, and explain to them my preference....one manager called my bluff, and I then I stood in front of him counting out the tip in single 1 dollar notes. I then told him to fix his bill if you want me to leave a tip. I said this in front of the manager and the owner.....I think they got the clue, and fixed it. The waiter got his tip.
2) When I get good service, I give more then 20%.
3) Regarding poor service, I once had this occur, and rather then file a complaint, I gave the waiter a half cent as a tip, after talking with the Manager........the service was so shoddy. They wanted me to fill out a questionnaire, I simply told them that a half cent tip to the waiter says enough.
I couldn't agree more. My experience with autotips has been dismal. Rarely do I eat out with more than a 5-top (family + a guest). This seems to be where the autotip kicks in. And, this is usually where lousy service kicks in. The 1st time I encountered autotip I didn't have a clue, so I added a reasonable tip to my credit card slip. Boy! That server certainly got a payday out of me. I now pay attention.
I spent quite some time reading the other posts here. Some were very worthwhile. Some were written by idiots that were trying to justify the fact that they never tipped at all. A lot were written by wait people, and a lot were written by regular restaurant customers. The majority of these posts made a lot of sense.
Personally, having been a bartender in my salad days, I am a generous tipper. But, on the very few occasions that I receive really lousy service, I sometimes leave my server nada. Some posters here said I should complain to the management in these cases. Let me tell you, when I have taken my family, or friends, or business associates to a restaurant and received lousy service I am already embarrassed enough and just want to end the experience and get on to a positive one. Going up to the manager and expressing my disappointment, be it the food or the service, just adds to my humiliation. I just make it a point to never patronize that establishment again.
Let's face it. Management already knows and you will really accomplish nothing by humiliating yourself in front of your guests.
Wait people know when they good are bad. My guess is that you actually earn their respect when you tip, or don't tip, accordingly. The restaurant knows when the don't get repeat business that something is wrong and they react accordingly or go out of business.
Actually, you should have filled out the questionnaire, or at least spoken to the manager about why you're leaving a bad tip. Not for your sake, but for the waiter/waitress.
People have a bad experience at restaurants for a variety of reasons. Let's say you had to send your meal back three times before getting it correct, and since the waitress didn't write it down at the table, you felt that she was getting the order wrong each time. This could indicate that she needs more training, or different habits. So telling the manager this might help her improve her service for next time.
Or it could be that the kitchen keeps getting the order wrong because someone there is not paying attention – therefore not her fault at all. That's a big problem for a restaurant. The restaurant staff might have to work out who's a fault on their own, but if a pattern is developing, it can help them fix the problem.
The IRS part of the issue here. As a server, my sales are calculated at the end of the night. An average night is about $1,000 in sales. 15% of that is $150. So, my restaurant REPORTS to the IRS that I made $150.00!! So I'm taxed on $150 even if I made $90. This is now common practice for many restaurants. And yes, we make BELOW minimum wage hourly.
You can be the fastest, most polite server in the world and people will still leave bad tips for whatever reason (they don't know better, or they are just cheap?).
You have the option of tracking your own tips and using that as the basis for your taxes instead of what is reported to the IRS by your employer, at the end of the year you can choose the lesser of the two. If you do this keep great records of every dollar and cent for every shift worked and don't try to cheat the system. Please note, if you are having trouble making the 15% you need to either A)provide better service, B)change restaurants, C)get better shifts, or D)relocate to a city or town that isn't full of cheapskates.
Nope... that's not how it works. Your restaurant reports final sales for the day, and also sales quarterly. They submit your average worked days to compare the sales vs. gratuities applied. That's how it works. You can adjust this anytime when you actually file a tax return. If you are going to earn your living in the restaurant business, please know what you're talking about, rather than blame customers.
(www.irs.gov will provide you with help on your tax dilemma, if needed.)
I was a server at an applebees. I now own a small business. Applebees did not have the >5 auto apply tip rule. I worked my tail off for rowdy, poorly dressed parties of 15 or more and would receive a two dollar tip. Often. I quit after 3 weeks. My coworkers got similar treatment. No one wanted the big tables. Sometimes it was the bar where people would cheap out, or simply skip out. I now tip 30 percent if I get good service. Or bad service. It is the charity work they do that allows me to have a cheap night out. They dont have to work slave labor, but they do. Many of us have worked as slaves in our youth, and we should never forget what it was like.
I'm turned off by it, but I don't complain. I regularly tip over 20%; if it's automatically added on, I won't give any extra money. Additionally, if service was terrible, I would also speak to the manager about having the charge taken off.
I agree with this. I was a server at a nice restaurant that had the 18% autograt for tables of 6 and more. We were able to _not_ put it on the bill if we thought we might get more, but to put it on the bill if we had concerns. I had to a couple of times due to rude and demanding individuals who behaved like it might have been their first time in a restaurant. I don't get offended myself at the autograt and have honestly rarely even had it applied to the bill. I think it's likely because I've given no indication that I am going to stiff the server.
Customers need to take more responsibility for their behavior in this equation too. It seems more and more people have a chip on their shoulder and take it out on waitstaff. People come in pissed off and angry at whatever, and are rude to the waitstaff. Maybe sometimes you don't realize how rude you are being. So, if a server isn't treating you the way you'd like, then STOP and think about how YOU are acting first. I don't know any waiter who is openly rude back to customers like this, but we just try to avoid the table and interact with you as little as possible. So, if we're not getting there every time you need something, we are probably off taking care of people who are a little more normal or just more pleasant to deal with, even though it may cost us money.
My thoughts:
1. It is definitely ok for a restaurant to charge an auto-gratuity; but only if it is a LARGE party. Most restaurants I have been to charge 18% for parties of 6 or more. I am sorry, but anything less than that is not "large", and if a server/restaurant cannot handle that, then screw them.
2. If the customers had issues about the service, and nothing was done about it, then they should reserve the right to not auto-grat at all. That being said, I would have still paid it, and then filed a complaint with the better business bureau over the matter, and the local chamber of commerce.
3. If the manager and wait staff LOCKED the family in the restaurant, that is against the law. Those people are now being held against their will. The police officer on scene should have immediately notified his superiors of the situation. They basically took hostages, and wanted a ransom. That is ludicrous.
4. I hope that restaurant gets the S*** sued out of them. No one should have to go through that.
So the patrons technically commit a misdemeanor for not paying their full bill, then the wait staff goes and commits felony false imprisonment. Real intelligent.
Joe –
You forgot to list another charge any good attorney would tack on to the lawsuit – *extortion*!!
The article does fail to state whether or not the 'mandatory' gratuity was mentioned before the orders were placed – regardless of what the menu says. My cut is simply that a gratuity (see the definition of the word) should be EARNED, NOT DEMANDED!
What crime did they commit?
No, don't say theft or failure to pay ... every time this has come up in a court, it has been ruled that gratuities are never mandatory, even when they are automatically added in situations like this.
You servers are hilarious. Where the heck do you work that you are worrying about what exact percentage you get??? When I was younger, I used to make more money serving than my husband did cooking, and he worked just as hard as I did, and he had a great hourly pay for the job. I could have been paid ZERO dollars an hour and made a killing every night...and this wasn't even a high end restaurant!
If I get good service, I leave a big tip. If I get shoddy service, the tip is minimal. Really anger me and you're not getting a penny. You want big bucks? Do your job properly, work in a busy restaurant, and there is NO need for demand gratuity and no need to worry about a few tables that left a less than stellar tip! The only unhappy waitresses and waiters I've ever met are those with nasty attitudes and bad work habits. I know ladies who work a few hours over lunch or dinner and bring home full time pay. Paaaalease.
Now, Dee, my sister might have agreed with you for most of the places that she worked. She was a waitress from the time she was 16 through the time of her passing, and she generally made enough to support her entire family while owning their own home and having a husband who preferred being on workman's comp or unemployment.... he also passed already but from less than natural causes.
She didn't drive, but rode her bicycle to and from work even when work was more than 25 miles away along major highways. And, she usually worked at very nice, upscale places where she did not have to worry about tips because she made enough from those that tipped well to make up for the ones that never tipped well.
But, even she enjoyed the auto-gratuity at some of the places she worked where conditions weren't as good, but she didn't stay at those places for very long because the grass really is greener outside other restaurants when it becomes too hard to make enough to pay your bills.
Experience on the job does bring in the bigger tips, only partly because most of the customers recognize good service with good tips. She was one of the ones who told me about the Canadian visitors and some from other countries who would forget that it is expected for customers to tip in the U.S. because they don't make a real salary. And, I forgot earlier about the IRS bit. They do require now, and have for a long time, for the waitresses to report their tips and they do take out the taxes from those tiny paychecks for the pay AND the expected level of tips (or in one place where I worked, the amount of tips written on the nightly tip sheets.)
Some of the restaurants would require the waitresses to share all of their tips with all the other waitresses, too, evening it all out and making it the same for everyone - and believe me, no one could cheat on that system for too long without special training in the art of scamming because other wait staff would be WATCHING to see what sort of tips the others were getting throughout the night. (That was the worst sort of system because it made everyone disgruntled either because they suspected other wait staff or because they were getting really good tips while others weren't getting much of anything ...)
All things are not equal, but experience over years does improve the odds of making a pretty penny at waiting tables - especially when you learn how to push those appetizers and deserts and LIQUOR - which is harder now that everyone has to be licensed even to merely serve the liquor and is personally responsible if someone overdoes it....
It's a racket, but can be a good racket if you learn how to play it well. I have met a lot of success stories (who unfortunately changed jobs a lot, too) and have also known a few who didn't make it to the point of experience because they couldn't handle how bad it is when you first start out.
I experienced something similar while on vacation. The service was HORRENDOUS, so we paid in cash and deducted the added-in tip. The waitress actually followed us out of the restaurant, demanding her tip! My husband had the foresight to look at a framed certificate with the owner's name before we left, and asked that she give us his number instead. She walked off in a huff and when we got home (which was in another state), my husband took the trouble to look up the owner's home number and call and tell him about this waitress. He asked for a detailed description, then invited us to come back for a free meal anytime. I strongly suspect she lost her job. She deserved to!
As a former server myself, this autograt is just a part of the larger problem of restaurants not wanting to compensate their employees fairly! They get to rake in tons of dough on food, alcohol, entertainment but pay their employees $2/hour and no benefits! Restaurants treat their employees like garbage. Imagine if you showed up to a job eery day where you had to deal with rude/demanding people AND your employer paid you only $2/hour, no benefits, made you CLEAN everything off the clock and offered no paid time off or sick days, etc? Frankly, if you can't afford to tip your server at LEAST $10 (minimum) then you cannot afford to go out. Period.
I always tip 20% min, usually more. If you automatically think you are entitled to $10 regardless of the amount of the check, then your crappy attitude is why you probably never made any money as a waitperson. Big shock. I used to be a bartender. I now make over 6 figures as a lawyer... I haven't forgotten, but I also havent forgotten that a sh*tty atitude will get you a sh*tty tip.
I think he meant 10% and got so excited that he wrote the $ before the 10 instead of the % after. I almost did that in one of my comments, too. LOL!
"made you CLEAN everything off the clock"
Time to contact a lawyer, not whine to us. This is a violation of federal labor laws.
People who make less than minimum wage don't usually have the time, knowledge or power to fight for their Federal rights. And I don't hear "whining" in the previous comment, just a stating of fact. Restaurant employee turnover is so high because waiters are treated very poorly for the most part. If you say, "hey, you have to pay me to stay and clean after my shift" you get fired. So, waiters usually just look for another job & leave a place that treats them that poorly.
And yes, factoring in a tip is part of the cost of going out for the night – just like factoring in for parking costs, gas, and a babysitter.
When I worked in food service I always calmly explained to my employer on the first day of employment that out of respect for them, I couldn't possibly work without pay as I wouldn't want them to get in trouble with (insert state agency). I was always treated according to the law and I was never once fired. This worked in California where the state agencies come down hard with a single phone call, you may have different results in other states.
I have read many of the reviews, I think we should go to a model like Europe, Asia or Australia where the cost is built into the service since it seems to me that many people or not satisfied. Having been born here, and lived in all four areas that I mention, I say pay them a rightful wage and no TIPPING as I have seen in many other countries. Tipping would be acceptable beyond the usual, but charge the rate and pay your people a fair rate to do a job and charge for the food as most restaurants are already ripping most people people off anyway!!
I'm perfectly okay with an added gratuity for a large group, and I'll generally pay it. However, the restaurant needs to understand that if the service is poor, we're going to dock for it, and if necessary, we will pay cash to avoid allowing them to add it onto the card. While I understand the forces that drive the restaurant to try to guarantee a minimum payment for the waiter stuck with an enormous group (I quite frequently find myself eating out in groups of 12-24 or more), I also expect that the wait staff will earn said tip, and if they don't, that's the end of it.
As for the whole "eating out with business associates or people you don't know well" issue, I have a very simple system I use: rather than passing the bill around and having each person put in some cash (which is never enough to cover tax/tip/etc, because people forget), I have one person take the bill and a pen, and go down the table.
One at a time, each person puts in an amount equal to:
* the cost of all the food and drink they ordered;
* their share of anything that was split, rounded to the next dollar;
* Round this total up to the next dollar;
* Tack on 20% in a no-tax state (divide the total by 5), 25% in a tax state (divide the total by 4);
* Round up to the next dollar, again.
If someone wants to put things on a card, either they handle the whole transaction and everyone else gives them the cash, or we ask the waiter for a slip of paper to note how much should be charged to each card, including their share of tip and tax, determined the same way.
The rounding up ensures that tax and tip are properly covered, and leaves a little bit extra for the wait staff as well.
I was raised to tip properly and actually more if the server was a woman, whether her service was worthy or not. My mother always told me you never know their story and if they are doing this job, they are more than certainly struggling – either to go to/stay in school – or to support a family. The look of appreciation is ALWAYS worth it ... even from the ones who really didn't seem to try too hard ... they would look in puzzlement at my mother and she would say something to the effect of realizing they must work very hard and that she would visit them again – the next visit, the servers always remember her. It takes so little to spread a little kindness, even when it may not seem to be deserved – kindness begets a change for the better whereas a stingy mean spirited manner perpetuates so much that is negative and destructive.
Very nicely put.
Extremely sexist.
I think that tipping a woman xtra, even when they don't deserve it, would perpetuate laziness or a lack of effort, and possibly make said woman feel that she should get rewarded for a poor job just because she is female, which is the LAST thing I would want to teach my daughter (if I ever have one).
True, true. Plus you gotta figure the pole probably rejected her.
Dear "Bill" & others who don't tip your server,
People like you are responsible for stereotypes and terms such as "inbred hick." if you don't agree with America's tipping process don't eat out. Visit your local McDonald for dolar menu items and refil your own effing drinks. Like I tell some of my "customers," keep your change apparently you need it more than I do.
Ps I hope you never reproduce, and if you already did I hope your... litter... never does.
Best regards,
If you buy a canoe and don't want it to tip, Paint it black.
Before you rave, you should probably read Bill's whole post. He already did say he doesn't eat out anymore. The tipping process isn't even American. As a previous poster pointed out, it's European in origin. He made a clear and rational point from his personal experience. You just screamed. In reality, you proved yourself to be the inbred hick. I sincerely hope you do not reproduce.
I go out to eat fairly frequently and usually tip anywhere from 20% to 50% (now that I think about it, that is a little much. Maybe I should cut back) depending on the restaurant and how much I like the restaurant. However, gratuity is just that, gratuity (a favor or gift in return for services). Which means it's mandatory. If you go to a chinese, japanese, really, any restaurant that isn't ran by a corporation, a gratuity is unexpected by the owners and staff. If gratuity is needed by a position to make the position profitable, the company that runs the restaurant needs to redistribute where the profits of the restaurant is going to keep it sustainable. Any thing else is just greed and exploitation. Example:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/outback-florida-minimum-wage/
correction: It's *not* mandatory.
Large groups, especially those requesting separate checks, don't tip well regardless of service level. This is a fact. Providing good service to a group is much more difficult than serving the same number dining separately, so a more experienced staff is required and are generally going to be monopolized for the dinner hour, if not the entire evening. Also a fact.
Servers who are capable of handling a large group didn't start waiting tables last week or last month, and they ain't there for the paycheck. Another fact.
So everyone crying about the auto tip... no auto tip means you get the newest guy on the staff with the least serving experience on the entire staff. Good luck with that. Personally, If I'm taking 14 people out to dinner I'll take the pro for the extra 1.8 cents on the dollar, thank you very much.
P.S. You people that think ownership can or will just "pay a decent salary" without jacking up the every last menu item, what are you smoking? Or will you just cross that complaining bridge when you get there... There's a tradition at every restaurant on the morning of January 1st of any year with a min wage increase... it's called replace the menus and reprogram the POS system with a hangover before you open fun time. Or any restaurant that wants to stay in business anyway.
Pretty sure that 1.8 cents on the dollar = 1.8%. 18% is 18 cents on the dollar, or $18 on a $100 bill, not $1.80 on a $100 bill. Still not much, but 10x what you think it is.
If this is your job, 00Jim, you need get another one if it's so bad. This is the land of opportunity. There's a better job out there. And if you can't get a better job, then that's your own fault. That's a fact. This is America. You either get off your behind and work or get out.
Just to clear it up; "to insure prompt service" is a misnomer, made up by cheapskates in the 20th century. The practice itself referring to giving a server extra compensation for extra attention dates back to the 1700's, examples of giving a tip date back to the 1500's. The idea was that the more you shell out the better your service is, not the other way around. And if you decided to skip out on your tab, youd be held in the stocks or worse.
In Europe, servers make a fair wage and there is no expectation of a tip, though people regularly still leave the change voluntarily. It turns out that the U.S. and Canada are the only countries where servers are paid poorly, and any loss i.e. people walking out on their bill, comes directly from the servers' pay. So why would this group of 5 get off with not paying their full legal bill if they were caught? The server/proprietor has every legal right to hold them, literally, to it.
It really is just a matter of time before gratuity is added in on all party sizes if the adult population can't come to terms that someone who isnt your spouse is waiting on you for next to nothing. The difference being that mercifully, you leave after you're done and your spouse is the one unfortunately stuck with a penny pinching shmuck.
its important to note – in europe people leave the change. as in the loose coins. NOT bills. and many times that dont even leave that.
It's important to note that in Europe servers make a living wage. In the U.S. servers are exempt from minimum wage laws because they are tipped employees. They often only make $2.50 to $3.50 an hour and rely on tips to make up the difference. These people are not our slaves, they are human beings providing a service. You expect to be paid when you provide a service, why is this any different?
For those of you that do not tip and/or tip very little, call up your representatives and tell them you want servers to not be exempt from minimum wage laws. Have them be paid a living wage and then you will not have to deal with the burden of tipping them.
The issue is when the staff provides BAD service – not refreshing drinks, delivering cold food, wrong orders, etc. WHY does that person deserve an 18% TIP? Plus, if the restaurant is ALWAYS going to add on the tip, it should be sued and forced to just mark prices appropriately.
... and in Europe, wait staff are generally horrible. Unless you are in a high-end restaurant, good luck finding one who treats you with anything better than contempt.
I am a generous tipper, and I agree waiters are underpaid. But I do like to be in control of the amount paid, and not forced to reward bad and good service equally.
I have to agree. I lived in Europe for the past 13 years and have to say that on average, the service is worse than in the U.S. Where I lived, the printed price in the menu included a 17.5% tip and sales tax. The servers were definately better compensated with base salary than in the U.S., but they often acted like they were doing you a favor by waiting on you. At least when the amount to be tipped is unknown, you have a better chance of receiving good service. However, if hte service is poor, I feel you should have a right to choose the amount of tip (if any). I also disagree that large parties leave smaller tips than small parties. My expericence is that it is the other way around.
I won't go to a restaurant that requires a tip. A tip is a reward for good service. If I don't get good service, I don't tip. Mandatory tips takes away the server's incentive to take good care of the customer
If you say it enough people will believe it. In my lifetime restaurant “guests” have gone from being led to believe that it’s their moral obligation to pay the restaurant staffs paycheck to being told that it’s an absolute requirement for eating out.
Let’s suppose that a family of four all orders a steak platter priced at $20 each and another family of four all orders a hamburger platter priced at $10 each. Although the server realistically should spend about the same amount of time serving both families, according to the unwritten “rules” the family ordering steak should pay the server twice as much for the same amount and quality of labor. Or is the server going to provide less service to the family that’s ONLY eating hamburgers.
Thirty-five years ago, I worked as a line cook in a nice department store restaurant for minimum wage, but although the waitress’s tips were somewhat dependent upon the quality of my cooking, tips were not shared with the cooks. Back then what “guests” were being told was 15% was customary for good service and this was before the days of automated or required gratuities. I always found it ironic that a waitress could get a tip for one really large party that would be more than my entire evenings pay, yet she would raise a stink because it wasn’t the full 15%. However if a person came in and only ordered a 50 cent cup coffee, and left a 25 cent tip, the same waitress would whine about the cheapskate, even though it was a whopping 50% tip.
For all of you commenters extolling the heroic virtues of your profession and demanding that guests absolutely must pay you a 15, 18, 20, 25, 30, or whatever the hael percent gratuity, like it’s your constitutional right, and be extra nice and coddle your special little axx at the same time, I have good news for you. I’m so sick of the tipping craep, I just don’t eat out anymore, so you will never have to worry about me “not paying a fair wage”. The next time you don’t have enough customers to keep you busy, please remember me. Get a life!
Bill, Your family of four needs to educate themselves before spouting off, because the unwritten rules are very much in writing. An unwritten rule and a written federal law are not the same thing... check with the IRS if you don't believe me.
Bill,
I understand you don't like the idea of tipping. It seems the system is too complex for you. I'll do my best to help. For a business to stay in business, they must make more money than they spend. If they spend more on wages, then they must either raise prices, buy cheaper ingredients, or make portions smaller. What most restaurateurs have found is they can keep the dining experience better and less expensive for you by having you tip and pay some of the labor cost. They pay less in payroll tax, hence they can spend that money on either higher quality food, or pass that savings on to you.
Servers, like any profession, vary in quality. If you are very good at your job, I would assume you would try to get paid more than others who do the same. The server who works Saturday night, at a fancy restaurant, spending an hour of time serving you and your family dinner didn't wind up there by mistake. They may not have a degree or training equal to what you do at your job, but they are at the peak of their profession. Also, you may pay them more in that hour than you make at your job, but don't assume that is their standard hourly rate. A $40 tip on a big dinner on Saturday night helps to subsidize the hours spent rolling napkins and filling salt shakers, cleaning the mess under the table, possibly mopping the floor at midnight after you leave. They do this with the idea that overall, it will be worth the work. When a customer decides to ignore the implied social contract, and doesn't tip, it throws off the balance.
If servers were paid an hourly wage equivalent to what they make with their current combination of wages and tips, the restaurants would need to pay a significantly higher tax rate. To stay in business, they would need to raise the menu prices to reflect the change in their costs. That would be at least the 15 to 20 percent that you don't feel is your obligation to pay. But wait, there's more. Under the current tipping system, servers get paid more when they are busy, less when they are not. The advantage to you is that at $3.25 an hour, the management of the restaurant can afford to keep a larger staff on hand, and you reap the reward of better, faster service.
If every server or "greedy restaurant owner" was making money hand over fist, we'd all be servers doing it ourselves. Like any other business, I'm sure there's more to it than we see.
As for the included gratuity, it is a turn-off to me personally. However, if it is on the menu, I feel it should be paid. If the service was poor, and the manager did nothing to help, then they should not return. Usually a tip is implied in the pricing, but here it was actually spelled out. Perhaps they could print different menus for groups of 5 or more to use, where the price is 17% higher
That is totally not true whatsoever. Restaurant can and have made it while paying their entire staff a living wage – and they didn't have to raise their prices to ungodly heights either.
Put it this way – McDonald's pays minimum wage or more to all workers. Are you saying that there's enough margin in a $1 burger to pay for their salaries, while there's not enough in a $15 burger to do the same? Yes, I know, volume differs greatly. But if we sat down and did the math, I think we'd find that pretty much any restaurant could pay their staff at least minimum wage and keep their prices in a reasonable range.
As a society, we've come to accept that it's ok to pay less than a living wage no matter the price of the food. We just expect it, and then justify it by saying that any other way would cost us all a fortune. But when you think about it, it makes no sense.
Hoora Bill!
Being a server was too "complicated" for me. If I wasn't shiny and smiling, I didn't get tipped well, which didn't make me shinier and smilier – i understand the causality and couldn't compensate for it. but I did spend quite a bit of time listening to other servers complain about things just like you mentioned. Additionally, our cooks NEVER got props for better food, turnaround time, etc. but they ALWAYS got lambasted for "poor" service.
Mandatory tips are, as many other things, a wedge to drive between the customer and their money.
To the people who want restaurants to pay employees more and double food costs instead: If you don't want to tip for service, simply order your food TO GO! You don't NEED someone to wait on you, but if you choose to you should tip for the service. I choose this option a lot to save a little cash, and I wouldn't want to pay more for my food if the service werre to be included in the price when I do not elect to receive table service.
I like to tip. I often over-tip if the service is really good, but I hate to be forced to tip especially if the service is bad!!! I'll decide and I'll be fair, but I won't be forced!!!
Should have left the friend that can't find a date at home - then there would have only been 4 eating. Pay the 18% as you agreed when you read the menu. If you didn't get good service discuss it with the manager and see if you can get comped or something better. If the manager refuses get your pound of flesh through Yelp and Twitter.
If someone doesn't pay their bill–for the food (which could be inedible, for instance,) or the tip, (for terrible service), the restaurant has the right to press charges, which can be defended and decided in a court. The diners can then argue their case of terrible food or service, the restaurant can argue their policy. But there is NEVER A right to hold the diners against their will–that is kidnapping and a criminal offense. And there is NO way that kidnapping someone till they pay ransom is legal. Everything else being discussed misses that basic point.
Go ahead and lock me in your restaurant for not tippinig. By the time you open the door again, you won't have a restaurant anymore.
Ditto. I just e-mailed them and let them know they lost any chance at my business.
http://www.la-fisherman.com/
Caveat emptor. If you don't like the policy of the restaurant (which is lawful and, more often than not, fair) then just don't patronize the place.
Any new restaurant you go to is going to be a different experience. What if you just didn't like the food, but the service was fine? Would you try to skip out on the bill as a matter of personal preference? You aren't guaranteed happiness.
This is why Yelp! exists.
That said, it does sound like the management over-reacted; but this is also common practice. If you feel like the service was bad, the proper etiquette is to pay the grat (you did, after all, sit through the entire dinner; you can always walk out before you receive your order) lodge your complaint with the management, and then tell others about the service you received.
Sometimes, you're going to have a bad experience. If you don't like that, stay home and cook.
I once had a waiter attempt to impose an automatic gratuity on me for a 3-person table. The restaurant was not crowded, yet he managed to screw up by the numbers. He didn't bring water or silverware to the table until asked. We twice had to walk up to the bar to put in our own drink orders. He wrote down the wrong soup order for my sister, and then tried to argue with her about it when she pointed out that the mistake. He even told me not to take an attitude with him when I told him his behavior was unacceptable and demanded he correct the order.
Finally, he brings me the bill. It has both soups on the tab. I send it back. He brings the new one and I notice he has now applied an automatic gratuity. I immediately object. His explanation? "I thought you weren't going to leave me my tip". Luckily, I knew the owner personally, and marched right over to her with my complaint.
Funny part is that I was still going to give the kid 10%, despite terrible service. He tried to slip one by us, so instead he got a penny and an extended high volume lecture on proper customer service in front of me and the entire restaurant. Worst service I've ever had in my life.
Geez, here is a novel solution. How about the restaurant charge their customers the real cost of delivering the meal and running the restaurant and then actually pay their staff a decent living wage so they don't have to rely on and beg for tips and the kindness of strangers. Then if the customer wants to give the staff a reward for good work, they can knock themselves out and it'll actually be a bonus and not part of the servers basic income. Tips are the most incomprehensible way of doing business out there. Why would people even take jobs that force them to depend on the vagaries of customers for them to earn a decent living wage. If the customer doesn't like the service the will express that by not coming back.
Clearly. If a restaurant cannot pay a living wage to its wait staff it has no business being in business. Minimum wage is a joke. In Florida, for example, they are trying to lower the minimum wage for tipped employees to $2.13 per hour.
It is already $2.10 in New Mexico.
The cop was not only useless, but dumb. It is very clear that it is not only illegal to lock the doors during business hours, but to lock them to make somebody comply with a civil issue? False imprisonment bordering on kidnapping is an easy call. The cop needs to go back to P.O.S.T. for basic instruction or at least should have called a supervisor.
I think the reason in the article is my main problem with auto-tipping. Sure, it's an easy way to figure out how much is owed. But if your service was terrible (and I think most people have experienced this at some point) then you don't want to give them any tip, or at least a very small one. And I'm not talking about a large group. I mean a normal 4 person meal.
Tipping is a little bit ridiculous, if you ask me. I think it can be compared to extortion. The poor wait staff is paid peanuts so the management can list the menu items at a lower price, and the customer is made to feel guilty about it and expected to cover the difference. Restaurants should pay their wait staff a fair wage and charge accordingly. If their service is crummy, then patrons will stop coming.
That said, I almost always tip 20%+, but if a restaurant decides they want 18% and adds it to my bill, that's what they're getting.
Tips are earned and anyone who's never done the work has no basis for informed opinion (and sounds like a privileged snob poo-pooing the practice). It's far better to 'reward' the occasional poor service than to stiff hard working wait staff – and the most wait staff ARE hard working and competent (or they don't last).
Who can abide some pompous buffoon treating the issue as though it's purely Academic? Wait staff rely on Tips FOR THEIR LIVING – would you care for some stranger to decide your salary for you!?!
Of course, locking the doors is idiotic and whomever is responsible for that genius decision deserves what they get...
Tip stands for, TO INSURE PROPER SERVICE. I reserve the right to determine that. Just like any other employment, we get evaluations on a regular basis. If we are performing well, we get a TIP. If we are not we don't. That is the responsibility of the business. Not mine as the customer. Period. If I get lousy service and you automatically add this to my bill, what makes me want to come back.? Excellent service can certainly overcome other deficits. I have been to a restaurant where upon first glance looked really bad, but the service was awesome and the food was ok, and I have been back many times. I have also been to a fantastic looking restaurant, with awesome food, but poor service, and I won't go back. It's that simple. I decide, not you.
Also, lets be clear. A business for safety reasons, is not allowed to lock their doors for any reason, ( other than an emergency). This is clearly not an emergency. The manager could be cited. If I chose not to pay that portion of the bill, that is what civil courts are for. Clearly I better have a good, provable reason, but do not lock the door. That could just escalate thing's that could certainly backfire on the management. Not a good move on their part.
I think the backfire just started for La Fishermen. Next time I visit Houston I'll avoid it because of this story. How many other folks reading this will do the same? Locking those folks in is going to cost them thousands. I hope they go under as an example to any other foolish person who thinks they can play the part of judge jury and prison guard.
So when you get your oil changed in your car, I'm assuming you pay 25% of what the service station charges and then get to decide whether you want to pay the remaining 75%? Or how about when the plumber comes to your house, do you withihold 75% of his customary payment until he prances and smiles around you to your satisfaction, and then reward him with the monie he's entitled to? In reality, restaurants should be paying living wages and adding that amount to the cost of your food. That way, the ability of the wait staff to earn a living wage would not be dependent upon whether they bowed down to you to your satisfaction.
I wonder how much the 18% backfires. I always tip 20%-25% percent myself, but when I see the 18% autotip, that is what I give. I figure, if that is what they are gonna force, then fine.
I suspect more people tip less than 18%... Why would they pick 18% if customers were usually tipping 20% or more?
My family had a favorite "better" restaurant where we went for major events for many years.
The restaurant changed hands (forcibly – the landlord refused to renew their lease because he wanted to put his friend in there).
We had one event there under new management.
The prices were significantly increased. The food quality was adequate for a budget restaurant, but not a quality restaurant. The food quantity was not enough to fill a person (This was a $50 – plate meal!). And the service was terrible. Then we were hit with a 15% gratuity.
I suspect too many people had walked away without leaving anything, and this was the manager's way of fixing it... instead of fixing what he did wrong.
Within months, the restaurant was closed, and too my knowledge it is still empty 4 years later.
We have no moral obligation to tip, esp when it supports the slothful lifestyle of slackers and 20 somethings who think they can get away with anything in their liberal and wretched lifestyles.
HILARIOUS! Braying donkeys like this who see 'vast liberal conspiracy' behind absolutely every silly story in the news – a new breed of so-called 'Americans' who seem to actually hate millions of their FELLOW AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Huh!?!
Clearly you have no idea what labor is involved in the food industry, and consider all blue collar work beneath you. Slacker would be the last word used to describe those who SERVE YOU. The fact is, I doubt you would be capable of a day of such labor serving jerks like you in a busy place. Most states pay $2.35 an hour for waiters, legally, and expect tips to pay the salary. After years in that industry making a fair living, I still don't necessarily agree with set gratuity, especially if food and service is awful, but so many jerks stiff good waiters to save a buck that it is a necessary evil, and floor managers should no the difference and act accordingly.
How rude of you to think that all servers are lazy and slothful. I waited tables while I was taking night classes trying to get my degree and also while raising TWO children. So...raising two kids, working full time at a restaurant waiting on moronic assholes like you, and getting my degree. Tell me what it is with you do with your life that is more worthy?
I agree, tips? why tip? thats an act of begging. or Expected Alms
If I was a server ever I would refuse to accept a tip
No dignity in accepting money that way.
If was President of United States I would have abolished that practice, may be someday.
zzzzzz
But I'm sure you have no problem paying a stripper $20 so gyrate around on your lap for three minutes...
There has been a change in perspective in the food industry. The basic assumption is now that you, the customer, are there to serve them. Everything from where you are told to sit, to the "gratuity" you are told to pay, is centered around this basic premise.
They get away with it because apparently today's customer is so desperate just to get some food, that any level of service at all is now considered acceptable. It doesn't have to be this way.
I tip up to 25% for exceptionally good service. As for this restaurant, if my experience was like this family's, let them arrest me. I'll be glad to settle it in court, and get a fat settlement for my emotional distress at having been imprisoned and threatened.
My wife always wants to tip 20%, I think 15% is enough. I do tip more if the service is exceptional, I have tipped equal to the cost of the meal.
Auto gratuity is to insure crappy service for large tables.
I also “Chef” for some restaurants when their Chef needs time off. If a table has over 15 people, I greet the patrons and supervise service.
utter bull.GRATUITY means gift.no one can be forced to give a gift.as for the whiners who go on about the poor rates servers get,if the servers refused to work for slave labor the bosses would have to pay properly.i know damn well i dont get tipped when i do a job that im paid to do.poor wages is the servers choice for allowing bosses to walk all over em
The auto-gratuity is an absolute farce. For a party of 5! - that is simply ridiculous. That means many American family can not dine together without being a large group! My wife and I have a son and two daughters. That in NO way qualifies as a large group.
My wife and I live most of the time in Europe - 10% is considered a generous tip and wait staff are delighted with that amount. The greed in America is two-fold - restaurant management needs to pay a fair base wage, enough for someone with no tips and auto-gratuity makes the quality of service often disappear. The staff knows they are going to get it anyway - why provide good service? That does not include everyone - we have had some great wait staff experiences in America (and Europe), but it is when the customer gets to reward excellent service, not basic "here's your meal" attitudes.
Are the people complaining about tipping willing to pay more for a meal, and get "minimum wage" level service when they dine out? That's what would happen if we eliminated tipping as etiquette. It's not just the per hour increase that costs would have to cover, but additional payroll costs as well. Then when less people dined out due to rising costs, add a little bit more to the cost of a meal for the people still willing to pay. There's also the unintended consequence of unemployment, and not just for college kids waiting tables while in school. In today's economy there are college educated men and women waiting tables. In the long-run, it's less expensive to leave a 15-20% tip. The only exception is if a server is deliberately rude. (Even for "slow" service I still tip something because I don't know what's going on "behind the scenes".
I don't believe in the "Minimum Wage" service level.
If the restaurant are going to pay a minimum wage, they are going to make sure that their employees deliver a certain service level or go out of business alltogether. People will simply chose to eat at places where not only the food but also the service is ok. That might actually be good for the excellent waitstaff since their services would be in great demand and that again would lead to higher wages.
The cop was useless, this was false imprisonment. A disgrace. Nobody is obliged to tip for bad service even on a mandatory "gratuity". A tipping dispute is a civil matter not a criminal one. Holding someone against their will is a serious matter. I hope they get a lawyer to teach this restaurant the error of their ways.
You are absolutely correct, Gus. Locking the doors amounts to false imprisonment and is a felony.
While I understand the reasoning behind the mandatory "gratuity" (by definition it is not a gratuity if it's mandatory) if the service is really bad I don't blame the customers for refusing to pay it. A "gratuity" is SUPPOSED to be a reward for service. If the service is just so-so, 10-15% is customary. If the service is above average, 20% or more is called for. But if the service is really bad, why should the servers be rewarded for that?? Frankly, I say, do away with tipping. Pay servers minimum wage to start. Then, if the service is bad, you complain to management and, if they are smart they make part of your dinner free and the server is punished or fired....
The do away with tipping thing does not work either. You will still pay the extra. Under the tipping system the restaurant owner is transferring some of the cost of the service to the patron (theoretically to encourage better service by the waitstaff). If they did away with tips and just paid minimum, they they would simply pass that cost on to you in your bill anyway (they have to get it somewhere, and the only thing in the restaurant that is a source of income is your wallet). So you would still pay the 15-20%, you would just be doing so regardless of service.
Nathanbrazil,
What is the basis for your statement "you would still pay the 15-20%". I respectfully disagree. I don't believe that the employers are going to pay these people the same amount they convince us to tip them, and in order to be competative, they may pass the savings on to the consumer. I.e the menu price will be higher but your total bill will probably be less. By the way I have no problem with servers being paid a fair wage. However, when I used to eat out, I sometimes calculated that the acceptable tip equated to a higher hourly wage than I received at my place of employment, and my work requires a higher skillset. Why am I expected to do this? That's why I don't eat out anymore, and hence don't contribute to the racket at all.
Not exactly true. The manager could make the claim that they were attempting to commit a crime (by not paying the bill) and then made a citizen's arrest, which would allow them to hold them for the police. I am not saying it is smart, but it is not automatically false imprisonment. Store owners CAN hold shoplifters (but they better have solid proof). This is similar. It is still dumb on the part of the restaurant.
Imposing a physical barrier such as locking a door weakens their citizens arrest defense. Under a citizens arrest, the person is still free to leave. Likewise, anyone can call the police if they feel they have a reason to, either the restaurant owner or the patron in this case.
No matter what, this is not a case that the police are eager to be involved in. More of a headache than anything else.
Courts have ruled in EVERY case that has been litigated on this subject that gratuities are voluntary, even if they are automatically imposed for a large party size. So the diners were breaking no laws by refusing to pay the auto-grat.
NOT PAYING A BILL ISN'T A CRIME.
actually, yes – it is. not paying your mastercard bill is one thing. skipping out on a bar, resturaunt or hotel bill is treated as theft, and people DO go to jail for it.
It's false imprisonment if a chain like Best Buy stops you at the door to mark your receipt and won't let you out, too. There is case law supporting this.
It will be funny when the restaurant reimburses this group 1,000 times over.
It will be even funnier when they go out of business, replaced by another restaurateur who has a damn clue
Regardless of the tipping issue, locking the family in could be considered unlawful restraint under Texas Penal Code §20.02. If any of the children were under 14, that's a state jail felony with a minimum sentence of 180 days in prison.
Me, I'd have busted the door down or broken out a window and called the police from outside.
Don't counter a crime with an unjustifiable act. Unless you are physically threatened, destroying property to escape will not help your case. You do not need any suspicion on yourself of vandalism or disorderly conduct, which will diminish police sympathy for you.
If you can safely call 911 from your cell phone or another phone to which you have lawful access, do so and say that the restaurant employees are harassing you and your family and holding you against your will. If you have witnesses, even better.
Last night at a restaurant in NYC where my husband and I live, we ate dinner near a fairly popular tourist attraction. The problem with this and several other locations throughout NYC, is that they don't trust tourist to tip properly so they throw in the autogratuity without reserve of the size of the party (and without notation on their menu). Just last night my husband, a friend, & I had the worst service. After sitting at the table for a while, we had to ask for menus, after waiting for a while to place our order, we had to check on the status twice after other patrons who arrived after us, received their meals. Additionally, the waitress never checked in on us. I needed more water and napkins so my guest went up to the bar himself to get what we needed. The service was so poor and the food was not great and then we get the bill and there was the auto gratuity of 18%. We were going to pay using a credit card (and object to the gratuity amount) until we were waiting forever again for them to pick up the bill, so instead we left cash and walked off. I am not ashamed to say we covered the food, bev & tax portion of the bill, but left less than indicated on the total b/c we were not going to be subjected to paying for an unwarranted tip.
This is why you ALWAYS need to look at the bill carefully before you pay it. Not only that, but you should NOT be calculating the tip on the total including taxes. Not a big deal in some places but, in Canada if you look at the "bottom line" to calculate your tip you are tipping on an additional 14%! Sorry. I will tip based on the cost of the food and drinks NOT on the state's share!
They do that here in Maryland too, it's perfectly legal.
Good for YOU, Amanda! I would have done exactly the same, and had NO qualms about it.
My wife use to serve when she was younger, she showed me her tips, and she talked to me every night about her day. She averaged about $13 an hour and a small diner. The customers weren't always the most pleasant and there were some other terrible servers, but make no mistake, she knew her job was to keep that customer happy no matter how annoying. I evaluate my servers based on how my wife would serve in the same conditions. I am extremely generous, 21% is a base tip for ok service, 30%+ isn't unheard of. However when it comes to large parties I ask for the 18% gratuity to be removed; if the server is confident enough, which they usually are, they generally get at least the 21% aforementioned.If not then 18% it is. I don't take discounts from managers based on service, food I will but not service. I will however speak to the manger and let him know either way how it went.
Sorry, but the most relevant part of the article, if true, is that the party didn't get the service for which they we being auto-billed. If in fact the wait staff was rude, didn't refill drinks, and gave generally poor service, the dinner party should have had NO obligation whatsoever to pay that tip. I feel absolutely NO remorse for the wait staff if this is true and the only difference for me is that I would not have paid the tip – period. By the way, I have only not paid a tip one time and believe me that was well deserved.
Now just as a side note that I'll throw in since I was a business major, one of the FIRST things you talk about with regard to customer service is that the customer is ALWAYS right. ALWAYS. The owners of this restaurant need to have a clearer picture of future revenue streams and what bad press does for the reputation. Nobody in this dining party is never coming back. We can't say they would have if their tip would have been removed, but there is a much better chance they would have had the next set of circumstances not followed. In addition, I can't imagine this restaurant wants this kind of publicity in the national news. My wife and I like to eat at nice places and we typically remember things like this and avoid such places, or at least check into them more before we go. Just food for thought, La Fisherman. That $20-30 bucks you refused to take care is going to cost you way more than that down the road.
Damn right it will. I just emailed them to let them know I will never eat there, EVER.
Here is what I have an issue with... I do not get tipped at my job! I do for others all day long and I get zero compensation for it. Why should it be my responsibility to pay the staff for a job well done. Shouldnt the restaurant be the one responsible for this? I think, waiters/waitresses should be paid by their employeer the standard minimum wage or greater depending on how long and well they do their job and it should always be the an option for patrians to pay anything on top of that. If I get bad service, you will get nothing, if I get great service , you will be compensated for it, but I should not be required to do so.
I bet you make more than $5 an hour, though. When I work 38-40 hours a week, I only bring home roughly $85 on my paycheck. Whether you tip or not, I am stuck tipping out an expo, busser, and if alcohol is ordered, the bartender. After all that, I STILL have to claim tips when I clock out. Because of this, I have actually lost money on cheap-ass tables. And let me be clear, I am a good server. Not a perfect human being, I sometimes make errors, but I do my best to remedy the situation.
I am sick to death of tables full of needy dirtbags who keep me running around the restaurant, to the point where my other tables are neglected, and not receiving a tip. It comes with the territory, but unless you have worked in food service or any other tipped industry, you don't know that feeling after working as hard as you can and receiving nothing, or just rounded up to the next dollar (last night, MOTHER'S DAY, I received 30 cents on a bill that came to $59.70. They received perfect service, by the way).
With an attitude like that you should never get tipped. If anybody is a piece of garbage I am sure it is you
Dudesanidiot, Waiting on tables in a busy place and serving asses like yourself with a smile for close to an hour is a tad more difficult job than many minimum wage jobs. Many are incapable of it. You are literally running during your shifts and performing a balancing act of handling incompetent waiters tables along with your own, and covering for cooks having bad days. Some places you even bus your own tables because the owners are saving a buck. A week in the industry would cure your holier than though attitude, but if you act this way in public I'd hate to guess what you actually have been served in your food. Maybe you shouldn't eat out.
Ali,
Sounds like you not in a fair situation. If someone is forcing you to stay there, you should call the police. Otherwise find employment at a better establishment where your hard work will be rewarded with better tips. By the way, you have just validated my point of view that employers should just charge a little more and pay the employees a fair wage instead of expecting employees to be paid via generous customer tips. Thank you!
Making the tip manditory and a fixed percentage kind of defeats the purpose of tipping in the first place. "Tip" stands for "to insure proper service". The gratuity is supposed to be an incentive for the person providing the service to do a better job. If the giving of a tip and having a set percentage is made automatic, where is the incentive?
Although your intent is admirable, I wanted to let you know that it is a common misconception that tips stands for "to insure proper service". It does not. If you wanted to "insure" proper service you would pay "insurance". On the other hand, you may leave a gratuity in advance if you wish to "ensure" proper service. Giving money in advance does not ensure good service. Check out the definition of tip both on dictionary.com and snopes.com and you will see the difference.
I worked in food service for the better part of 20 years, as a hostess, bartender, and server. I even made it to trainer and manager status. Let's be clear. TIPPING IS NOT MANDATORY. That's why it's called a GRATUITY. It's a way for the customer to say "thank you for a job well done." The problem is that the industry has developed a dependence on the tip system as a way of paying very hard workers for their time. Minimum wage for a tipped staffer is generally about $2.13 an hour. No one can live on that in this country. But every restaurant and bar in the US has decided that the staff must survive on what the customers give them. Policies like the manadatory grat on larger parties is an insult to both the server and the group served. It basically says, "You aren't going to get the same level of care as a smaller party, even though the server is only working for you right now. Therefore you MUST give them money." It's nothing short of extortion. Unless I was required to do it because of a computer system I couldn't shortcut, I never added the grat and I ALWAYS earned more on big tables. Upwards of 30-40% sometimes! But the bottom line is, we live in an entitlement culture and until people change their thinking to be more compassionate of others, the tip system in the service industry will prevail. We should have living wages at every level of the employment chain...but we don't. We shouldn't have the reliance on the wealthier...but we do. Sad, sad.
Two others concerns not mentioned:
1) In many States, including Maryland, the waiters and waitresses are responsible for covering the cost of "walkouts" – those who leave without paying. The waiter is responsible for the "walkout"s felony offense. Though in my mind this is synonymous with a thief stealing from a person's wallet, if the waiter holds the thief or chooses to restrain them, they will receive a harsher penalty than the crook. Absolutely ridiculous!!! Where else in our so-called Justice System is someone else held accountable for a crime they didn't commit or aid?
2) The pay scale used to be that waiters/waitresses had to be paid half the minimum wage but the Feds decided that the rich weren't rich enough (though 5% now hold 75% of the wealth), so they let the percentage slip along with the now current minimum wage. Servers got dissed on both sides of this issue. Aristotle once proposed that no citizen of Athens, regardless of what they did/accomplished should be paid more than 3 times what the minimum wage worker made. You see Aristotle realized the need to tie wage to "EFFORT". Capitalism and inheritance produces the biggest free-loaders in the country. One lucky ancestor and you get to live like a king/queen in a country that supposedly was founded with a distaste for royalty. Capitalism is NOT a perfect economic model. Did the CEO of APPLE really "EARN" over a million dollars a day last year? Does the minimum wage janitor, who works everyday, still deserve to live in poverty? According to the Republicans – YES! Do servers deserve to have no benefits while serving the kings and queens of capitalism? This is a country only for the rich who keep getting richer. So where were we? Oh yes – complaining about some of lowest wage "Earners" in the country. This is just another smokescreen to keep Americans from worrying where the money from most of the fruit of their labor goes to – the top 1 and 5%.
I would have sued the owner for holding the party hostage. they could have had felony kidnapping ( SEE OJ SIMPSON IN HIS LAST CASE) i would have filed charges and STILL NEVER PAID. A TIP IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF DINING. IT IS TO COMPENSATE THE STAFF FOR GOOD SERVICE, and by not tipping you are sending a message to the employee about the bad service to. here is a tip, be glad it wasnt me in that restaurant. you know what i mean?
Great post! Awesome work! I couldn't agree more! Every conservative should read this and try to respond meaningfully. There is no right answer; it seems that 50% of the country is not only poor and ok with it, but willingly perpetuates their poverty through the voting booth.
Look up the history of tipping. The tip-credit law was enacted by DEMOCRATS. The restaurant lobby is supported by a large number of democrats. This is not a left/right issue.
The Auto-tip should be considered a minimum. It should however not be considered mandatory. Diners should be able to pay less or none after a discussion with the restaraunts owner/ manager. This will protect the restaraunt from poor service from the wait staff.
Let's be real, there are really bad wait staffs and there are really bad customers. This is a good policy to protect the interests of most waiters and customers.
Auto-tip is just idiotic, my servers on my slowest shifts still average in the 15 dollar an hour range. They do a good job and bust their ass for a customer. Auto-tip, tip pooling, or any manipulation of the system will just make servers care less about a table. In my personal opinion this restaurant is awful, calling the cops before a manager tries to resolve the situation? Either the manager needs to be fired or an employee that mishandled the situation, calling the police and locking the doors seems like it create a very negative situation for other customers. And applying an auto tip to a 5 top? Maybe a 10 top or 15 top I could see maybe doing it, but seriously a 5 top isn't taking 1 servers full resources, and if it is they should be getting some amazing service that 17 pct tip is well deserved, not empty cups and rude service.
If restaurants paid service staff a decent salary, this wouldn't be an issue at all.
One thing a lot of people dont understand is that regardless of whether you believe in tipping or not the IRS does!! Servers are taxed on a percentage of their sales whether they make the tips or not,so if you stiff a server on a 100 dollar check the IRS says the server had to have made anywhere from 10-20 dollars on that table so tax them on 10-20 dollars of income. Most servers are single mothers/fathers or college students,90 percent of the time if your experience was bad it was'nt the servers fault,it was the Manager/Owners's fault. You should ALWAYS tip unless the server was rude,and you should ALWAYS vent to the Manager,not the employee.
Assuming your claim is true, the IRS only assumes a 10% overall tip rate. If you get one bad table, that still leaves plenty of room to make up the difference over the next several.
Assuming, of course, that you actually make enough money to pay taxes in the first place.
In any case, it's not my problem. I'll give you a good tip if you give me good service. Good service, by the way, involves a lot more than simply not being rude – if you're rude, you'll get absolutely nothing, and I'll be having a long, angry chat with your manager long before the meal is over – or may end it prematurely and simply pay nothing at all. If you don't like it, find another career.
I pay for service!! Maybe the problem with this whole industry, with the IRS as part of the game, is the waiters aren't paid a decent wage in the first place! Like I said at first "I will pay for service". Bad service little or no tip!! See you boss.
That is absolutely incorrect. At the end of each shift a waitress/waiter is supposed to "claim" their tips with the office. Most end up only claiming their credit card tips therefore owing less to uncle sam.
More power to them for not claiming tips on cash.
DT, you are harboring an outdated misconception about servers and taxes. II have been a server for over thirty years and know that in the 1980's maybe not all servers claimed all their tips. But in 2012 most every person pays with a debit card, which is recorded and used to determine tips received. On most shifts, I end up having to claim more than I actually make because I have to tip bartenders and food runners out of my earnings.
I always pay in cash and directly hand the tip in cash to the server. It's up to the server to handle that in whatever way he/she deems appropriate. I don't believe that a server should have to share tips with other servers because you get what table you get. People are all different and have different sentiments about gratuities. If these people were unionized, then I can see pooling of tips, but many are non-union. What they earn is what they should keep. A bar tender should be paid a salary and a cut of the bar sales BY THE RESTAURANT OWNER and should not have to be dependent upon tips. Buspersons should be paid a salary and should not have to be cut in on the tips. If waiting tables paid a better wage, tips wouldn't be necessary, but since it is what it is, I will make sure to tip very well. I just want that money to go directly to the person who took care of me.
That is why I usually tip in cash and draw a line through the "tip" portion on the credit card slip.
waiters and waitresses that complain about tips or "non tips" are just like the idiots in the education field. the so-called teachers knew what kinda job and career they were getting into. they knew the type of salary you would be making. yet these bloodsuckers think theyre underpaid and deserve more.
TRY STRIPPING THEN! i heard employees get paid well in that industry.
dont try to punish others for the mistakes you made with your career choices.
Are you kidding me? Seriously? THESE PEOPLE SERVE YOU. WITHOUT THEM, RESTAURANTS, BARS, ETC WOULD NOT EXIST. How about showing a little respect, imbecile?
Ted,
Thanks for validating my point of view that restaurants should just charge the customer a little more and then pay the employees a fair wage. Then the employees could just have taxes deducted for the wages they are actually receiving.
I would prefer them to increase the price by 15% and have a hard and enforced rule of "NO TIPPING"
As long as it is clearly written in the menu or stated at the beginning of the meal by the server, then nobody can complain. You forfeit your right when you agree to eat at the restaurant given their policy. Plain and simple.
If you don't like it, then don't go to that restaurant. If every restaurant does it, then don't eat out. Why do we make things much more complicated than they need to be?
Why make it complicated? Because it is .. no one should have to pay a 18% mandatory tip for crappy service. That's rewarding a server for poor service and there's no incentive for them to give good service since they know they are getting above the customary amount of 15%. Servers should get tipped for how good they are period
Steve, why are you taking the position that the menu is a legal contract? Except for reading a description of an item on the menu and ordering that item, how did THE ENTIRE menu rise to legal contract status in your mind?
What if the patrons ordered specials posted on a blackboard and didn't read the menu at all? (Let's say the blackboard doesn't mention gratuities). Why should someone who doesn't read the menu be obligated by the menu?
I would have sued the owner for holding the party hostage. they could have had felony kidnapping ( SEE OJ SIMPSON IN HIS LAST CASE) i would have filed charges and STILL NEVER PAID. A TIP IS NOT A REQUIREMENT OF DINING. IT IS TO COMPENSATE THE STAFF FOR GOOD SERVICE, and by not tipping you are sending a message to the employee about the bad service to. here is a tip, be glad it wasnt me in that restaurant.
The whole point of a Tip is to reward good service. When I recive good service I tip very well but if the sevice is crappy then the tip, or lack there of, will reflect that as well. To have a mandatory tip removes any motivation for the server to do their best becase they are going to get their pay reguardless.
Well, no. In fact, this has been litigated several times in the past, and courts have always found that gratuities are voluntary, period. You are well within your legal rights to refuse such auto-gratuities.
@Steve This is complete BS as it isn't a law that you have to leave a tip. It is very misleading by the restaurant and they should just add it onto the prices as what they are doing is false advertising of prices.
Steve,
I'm older and my eyes don't work like they used to. Can we get that menu statement in the largest font used elsewhere on the menu, at the start, or better yet, a nice big sign on the front door. Thanks!
And if it's "clearly stated" in fine print that I agree to give up my firstborn son as a precondition of eating at this restaurant (well you know, it's really hard to get a table here!), then clearly in this case I should also have no reason to complain. Right?
The story doesn't dwell on the facts behind the reason of being locked in. Who knows? There have been several times that I have had to tell people that they simply could not be pleased and requested they no longer patronize my establishment. That is probably one of the worst things you could do...but, hell, it's not like these people couldn't claim they had terrible service when that is anything but the truth (in reality they just don't like to tip or love to complain in order to get a bill slashed).
I actually laughed when I read this article because my thoughts were that this restaurant staff felt it necessary to call the police on these people. That means these people are probably the worst of customers. Not that I agree with locking them in...I would also say they should have had their autograt taken off. Regardless, everyone seems to miss that this is not a "go to" course of action for someone not tipping. As a matter of fact, I have never heard of any drastic steps unless the customers were just ridiculous. My experience with servers is they tend to reflect how you treat them. That's not to say there aren't bad apples. However, there are plenty more rude customers than bad waitstaff.
I tip based on service. There's a place near me that knows me by name and most of the older servers know that I'll tip very well ~20-25% since I take up a table by myself. The summer employees have started and I ran out of tea, not once, but three times; my order was wrong with the excuse the kitchen is busy (I've been in when it's busier and no one had ever forgotten the sides before); and it took 15 minutes for my card to be swipped to pay the check. The server got exactly 5%, not a penny more. I'm paying for service, and if you can't do a good job, don't pretend that you can, or be mad when you don't get what you expect.
Are you kidding? 20-25% is not an extremely good tip...it is decent but not "extremely good." You take up an entire table, have a $10 check and leave $2-$2.50...oh thank you for the awesome display of generosity!
In what world is 20-25% just an ok tip? What are you expecting? 50%? 100%?
You have your nerve. 15%-20% is a proper tip. You will only get a 100% tip if you serve me a meal that is so large that I disclose to you up front I will be spliting with somone, understand that it is an accommodation that you legally must make for me under ADA, and treat me appropriately. My meal will be paid for IN CASH. You will get a 100% tip in CASH because I did not buy another meal. I will then hand this cash directly to you and you then deal with it in the manner you deem appropriate. Because I hand this cash to you personally, I have reason to believe that it is solely your money.
Bartender,
When a family comes in, only spends an hour, has a $200 bill, and "only" tips $25 (which is much more than my hourly wage for skilled labor), then there's whining about the fact that it's only a 12.5% tip. You can't have it both ways – get a life!
Here's good information about tax due on tips.
http://www.money-talk.org/thread4373.html
I worked as a server in Fine Dining in San Francisco in College. We get may foreign guests and tipping in America is "customary." Many guests will refuse the applied 15% and we do not fuss and take it off no questions asked. I was disappointed when this happens but seldom does this happen. If the party was a banquet and they did not tip, my boss would compensate us. Again tipping is "customary" and not mandatory. If a guest does not tip that's not a big deal if one takes pride in giving top notch service no matter what.
Michael,
Comparing your attitude to some others on this page is like comparing right and wrong. You seem to understand the attitude that once made America great. If more folks in this country had a work ethic like yours, we might not be reading the article above, because the gratuity probably wouldn't have been contested.
I have no problem with the mandatory gratuity, but the wait staff still must be held accountable to earn it. The manager should have been involved, and removed the gratuity – possibly taking it out of the salaries of the rude staff.
If tips are "mandatory" what motivation does the wait staff have to do a good job if they're going to get that 17% or whatever either way?
17% is a joke for a skilled employee...the incentive is to make money. I clear $400 a night on the weekends and would make half of that if I settled for 17%!
you're making the same, if not better, rates as a prostitute or stripper. i would actually count their jobs as requiring more "skill" than yours. your job takes a minimal amount of skill, yet you are making more in one night than most Americans make in a week. I take home just a little bit more than your nightly earnings in a week and i work in cancer research. your earnings do not reflect your skill, they reflect warped American consumerist tendencies. i guarantee there is no other nation on this planet that would reward your "skill set" a tenth of what your are currently making.
this article tells it all, it really is a Thank less job. http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20428990_3,00.html
Bringing someone food and drinks isn't a "thankless" job. It's a way to earn a paycheck, and it's not all that difficult from what I can see. Nurses, EMT's, police and firefighters have the distinction of the often "thankless" job because THEY PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE SO THAT OTHERS CAN LIVE. Refilling water glasses just does not compare.
and I'm sure you are the type that doesn't tip. I agree that the service men and women do have a "thankless" job. However, how many times have you been to a restaurant and one of the service staff has made you smile for you ordering them around for an hour?
I am not someone that's hard to please or one of those difficult customers that all servers hate. I understand when a restaurant is busy and the serving staff doesn't have time to just cater to me. I almost always leave a good tip. However, if I have received terrible service (and it has to be terrible for me to consider it terrible) I won't leave a good tip or any at all. That's how the system is supposed to work. You get tipped for doing a good job. If you don't do a good job, you shouldn't be compensated for it. It really is as simple as that. As for flagging down waitstaff and telling them the service is bad during the meal and all that, I've done that, but really don't feel that it should be necessary. The wait staff knows what their job is and if they're not doing it, it's because they're choosing not to. The few times I have neglected to leave a tip because of bad service, it's been when I've been in a restaurant where it wasn't busy, there was hardly anyone in that server's area but us, and I witnessed the server standing around talking to colleagues or something of that nature or just disappearing altogether. If I get decent service I will tip accordingly, if I dont, I won't.
I understand tipping low... but no tip at all? Have you ever stopped to think maybe something recently happened to them? Their boss won't allow them to go home due to heavy business or they will get fired. With the economy the way it is its even hard to find a good restaurant to work for these days. So most of the time your stuck with a crap boss who wont let you leave when you sister just passed away or your car broke down and its going to cost $xxx to pay for it and your not helping by leaving nothing. This isn't just towards you, but anyone who leave nothing for poor service, ever stop to wonder why the service is poor? Ever tried to get a sense of the type of work environment the management sets? Ever thought that maybe they are having the worst day of their life? I've learned people aren't rude, distant, or forgetful just because they can, it usually has an underlining problem. Just a thought.
The VERY few times I have not left any tip has been when the service has been HORRENDOUS such as the time a dinner took two hours and a half hour just to get menus and water and then when we finally got our drinks they never came back to refill them, we were supposed to get bread before the meal and never received it although most other tables around us got theirs, we were talking to a couple of people at other tables who were having the same complaints, and then would see the servers standing around the hostess area laughing and talking with each other. That's not having a bad day because your sister died or whatever, that's just shoddy service. Then there was the place we went to where after sitting for a half hour waiting for our order the server comes out and says she forgot to put the order in but would do it "right away." It took her a half hour to realize she hadn't put our order in?? I've had to go to work and do my job when I'm having a bad day too and I'm expected to do my job. It's not the customer's fault that something bad has happened to you and you're having a bad day.
What happens to a server outside of the restaurant is not my problem. I am tipping based on my experience inside the restaurant period.
Maybe service well was slammed and that's why your server couldn't get your drinks to you as fast as you thought they should. Maybe the kitchen screwed up your order...it's not always the servers fault that your service was not timely.
Bartender....waiting a half hour for drinks is not because they were "slammed", especially when I saw our server standing around talking with other servers while my husband and I and the people at the three other tables in her area (the rest sitting empty) looked at each other and started talking to each other about how bad the service was and how they were having the same issues we were. Believe me, I take into account how busy a place is and a lot of other factors. I RARELY leave a low tip or no tip, so for me not to leave a tip.....trust me, it was BAD and there was no excuse. And as I said before, everyone has bad days but I'm expected to do my job when I'm having a bad day and it shouldn't be taken out on the customers.
X,
Lemme answer in Espanol. IS NO MY FAULT AND IS NO MY JOB. And you might do better as a fiction writer!
"Colleagues"? That's a pretty interesting term to use for a server.
Solo: "Colleagues"? That's a pretty interesting term to use for a server.
What are you trying to say? Do you think a server is some inferior person or something? That "colleagues" is too high and mighty of a word to use for a mere server? Your statement says volumes about you as a person, none of it good. Hope you don't get a nose bleed with your elitist attitude. I'll bet you don't even say "thank you" when your "server" brings you something, because it's their place in life to wait on you. It's not like they are real people, huh?
Dey used to be call waitress an waiter but dat is politically incorreck now.
One thing deserves mention here that isn't addressed in the article. When I get service poor enough to consider reducing a tip in a restaurant, I let the restaurant know there's a problem long before the end of the meal. I'll start flagging down other passing waitstaff, waving the manager or hostess over, or anyone else who works there, and tell them straight up that our table still doesn't have water, or we've been waiting too long for service, or whatever. I never silently suffer through poor service and only then leave a crummy tip. I want to be very clear exactly why I'm being stingy. Also – if it's early enough in the service that the meal hasn't been irretrievably ruined – it gives them a chance to fix things and start doing their jobs.
One of my pet peeves is sitting with an empty tea or water glass. I've been known to wait until a manager is watching and then getting up and bringing the tea pitcher over to the table and refilling the tea for the parties at my table. No need to say anything. The point is made very effectively.
In most states, servers make $2 and change plus any tips they make make for that night. If they happen to not make enough to match minimum wage for the evening, the restaurant will supplement their tips/$2 and change to match minimum wage. I had several nights at a nice restaurant end up this way. At the end of the year, I discovered I was only averaging around $9 an hour and without any benefits whatsoever. There are multiple reasons the food and/or service you receive may be poor. It may be the fault of the kitchen, server, foodrunner, hostess, etc. There are several elements at play in the functioning of a restaurant. Everyone else gets a per hour wage higher than minimum wage (except perhaps dishwashers and busboys). Servers are the ones who pay for you tipping poorly. 15% should be the minimum, 18% is generally expected (at least in most restaurants in major cities), and 20% is considered what is given when you enjoyed the service and/or appreciated what the server did for you. At the end of the day, the server has to share some of the tip (not always) with hostesses/busboys/foodrunners/and possibly others. The tip does not always only hurt the server. Also, cash tips are preferable to credit card tips as we only have to declare to the Feds 10% of the cash tips while we have to declare ALL of the credit card tips. It's amazing how little most patrons of restaurants know about tipping. Honestly, I think we should move to the system that Europe employs with added gratuity. It would prevent patrons from taking out their frustrations for the taste of an establishment's food, the length of time it took to get a seat, and other things out of the server's control on the server.
Find another profession if you don't like the "system." Every job or occupation has something that could be improved, especially anything in the service sector. I won't be told what to tip, and many feel the same. The restaurant business is hurting right now (see all of the dine out 2-For-$20 offers?) and this policy would kill them.
Some establishments have mandatory grats, and that is part of "the system", as you put it. So perhaps you should stop whining so much.
Excuse me, but why should anyone help you break the law and cheat on your taxes?
As for your percentages: I am a generous tipper, and normally leave 20%, rounded up to the nearest buck – or nearest five bucks for an expensive meal. But I will NOT be bludgeoned into leaving anything at all in exchange for lousy service. I'm well aware of waitstaff pay structure – but the point is, SO IS THE WAITSTAFF. If you want a good tip, give me good service. If you give me lousy service, I'm not going to pay you for it. End of story.
Points I want to think about, despite any comments earlier below (and yes, I still hold to those points).
In the USA,food servers are treated whether true or not as if their wages are based on what they serve atm.
Other than a brief stint as a "candystriper" in a hospital during my high school years, I have personally never gained wages based on the food serving industtry. And actually that was counted as volunteer work. Even so, it was pretty nasty. Water under the bridge.
The thing I want to point out is that this is how a LOT of people currently make their livings. If they do the accepted or beyond the accepted job here, I want to support that. I will, I do.
Leave what you want for a tip, that's your choice. It"s also the point of the entire article. When tipping becomes mandatory, everything changes.
I just had dinner with mom at Outback and it was awful. Lukewarm food, which can be typical, but the service was terrible. We waited fifteen minutes before our server could get to our table (and she walked really slowly) just to get us silverware. She didn't even realize that we didn't have utensils. We had to ask and remind her twice for very basic things. She walked around like she was in a cloud. I left a tip, but it certainly wasn't 20% of our bill.
It's a fast food chain with foodoid substances I can't describe without using a few forbidden words. What did you Expect? If you have to save money, EAT at a real, honest to goodness, DINER, okay?
First of all, I did not choose the restaurant and second, for what I paid for the meal this should not be an issue. Diners have their problems, too. I believe in supporting small businesses, but some are not as accountable for food or service as are the chain locations. I agree that the food is usually better, however. But, if we're discussing service... that should be universal as to why is good and what is not.
Yes, diners do often have their own problems, and I'm sorry about that Outback meal. No you shouldn't have to give a generous tip (but keep in mind that Mother's Day is a waitstaff's nightmare to begin with - and they will often because of that be understaffed to begin with...) Frankly, if my own mother hadn't passed away a decade ago, I'd be treating her to a good real and HOMECOOKED meal done by yours truly.
Outback. Is that food? No, not the waitperson's fault but yours for chosing such a place.
I see so many people stating that if the service is bad, DON'T tip. WRONG !! Leaving no tip gets you labeled as cheap. I leave $0.50 when the service is bad. This way they know you were thinking of them and the service they provided.
"I leave $0.50 when the service is bad. This way they know you were thinking of them and the service they provided."
NO, leaving nothing and ******REPORTING********* THEM TO A MANAGER IS WHAT MAKES CHANGES. Giving them 50 cents just makes you look REALLLY CHEAP!! Sorry, but that's totally stupid. Leaving nothing SPEAKS SOOO MUCH LOUDER, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU REPORT IT!!
Sorry, I like my way best and will continue with this method. Those who deserve a good tip, will get a good tip. the rest....$0.50.
"Sorry, I like my way best and will continue with this method. Those who deserve a good tip, will get a good tip. the rest....$0.50"
But if you don't REPORT IT ALSO, the server may be too STUPID to know what they did wrong, understand?
Springs,
Larry is a paying customer, not a restaurant employee. Bad service or not, he shouldn't have to confront the manager about employee problems. Guest checks used to have a place for one to make relevant comments, but such things have gone the way customer service has. But let reiterate, he's not getting paid, he's the one paying!
"Bad service or not, he shouldn't have to confront the manager about employee problems. "
I didn't say he should "HAVE" to, I said if he wants service to improve, he should.
Tipping is ridiculous. Never understood how this became the norm in society. There are 2 arguments for tipping: 1) the low base salary of the wait staff. I don't discount that. I'm sure it's true. However, that is an issue between employee & employer, NOT customer. What they make is none of my business. 2) The customer is rewarding the wait staff for quality service. I do this by coming back and/or recommending them to others.
Tipping IS ridiculous. But it is the way things are set up, and So I DO It, based on quality. One has to, to insure a livable wage for the waitstaff.
15-18 percent for regular service, 20+ for exceptional or places I dine often. 20-25%+ for diners where I spend $8 or so dollars on a meal and these people work every bit as hard as at the classy joints. With a crowd I'll do the gratuity they attach. But I do think 18% is the maximal gratuity they should write in in those cases as expected.
Seriously, I've left 50% tips at diners where I only dropped $8. My choice, though. (And For Those WaitStaff who immediately know (they think) who the cheap tippers will be - we middle aged women are supposedly cheap. Well, if I'm treated like you already know I will be that way... guess what. Your tip will meet your expectation.)
As a server, I make $2.13 an hour, which is what my employer is required by law to pay me. The rest I make in tips. I have read a great deal of posts complaining about having to tip at all. So then perhaps a law change is in order.
I just got back from Costa Rica and I liked their tipping custom. The 10% tip is already included in the bill but if you want to give more you can but you are not obligated to do so. This way the waiter always gets their tip. I think we need to change our tipping customs in the USA and the owners of resturants need to pay a decent living wage to their waiters. Many resturant owners are extremely rich in my area and the tipping custom is just a poor excuse for them to not to pay their waiters a decent wage. In Palm Beach Florida some of the chefs make over $100K a year. Also the resturant business is mostly a cash business and a lot of the earnings go unreported.
As I See It,
Why list it as a tip at all? If that's the case, why not break the whole bill down. Materials (food), chef, line cook, dishwasher, electric bill. The whole idea of the restaurant selling you product, but the servers are like private contractors working for you is absurd. Should you have to file 1099's for the "tips"? A tip should truly be a tip – NOT a mandatory tip to pay the servers wages.
An automatic gratuity is NOT a gratuity since it's not given voluntarily. It's a fee - plain and simple. If a restaurant is going to charge me for their food AND an extra fee for someone to bring me that food, I won't patronize that restaurant. It is ridiculous for any server to feel entitled to (what amounts) to a bonus since the server will get paid their full (minimum wage) salary - regardless of whether they get tipped or not. It's called "Un-earned Wages" by the IRS. Seriously, look it up. If a server does not earn enough tips to cover their below minimum wage earnings for the pay period, then the employer is OBLIGATED by law to cover the difference. Again, don't trust me - look it up. If a server is NOT paid a minimum wage at the end of each pay period, then they can sue their employer for back-wages. In short, YES - most servers work at below minimum-wage rates, however they are all guaranteed minimum wage by law regardless of whether they earned tips or not.
I am generally a good, if not above average, tipper. (I used to be a bartender) Good waitstaff doesn't need to have the employer make up the difference between tips and minimum wage. Okay, everybody has a bad week once in a while in any performance based job, ie, sales or waiting tables. But, If I were a waitstaff employer and one of my employees required me to make up that difference often, he/she would no longer be in my employ. Tips received are a good indication to the employer of the quality of service said employee was giving. Lousy tips would tell me this employee was giving lousy service and thus hurting my business.
It's not a gratuity if it is mandatory. This gives people little recourse if the service is poor. Rude servers have no business being in the business, mandatory tipping encourages poor service.
Mandatory tipping is a disgrace, I would NEVER agree to it.
If you think mandatory tipping is a "disgrace", I hope you never leave your doublewide as its mandatory in Europe and Asia.
And that is why service is so bad in Europe. It's impossible to spend less than 2 hours at a cafe for lunch just to get a cold sandwich.
Mandatory tipping on a table of 5 is ridiculous. That's a family. Mandatory tipping on groups of 7+ makes more sense.
Mandatory tippling for large groups only serves to inflame people and leaves them no solution when service is marginal or poor. Given that restaurant tipping is in the eye of the beholder (patron) and depends on so many variables: service, quality of food, experience, etc. then a sliding scale with guidelines might be more appropriate – something that restaurateurs and patrons could understand and agree to. An example might be Poor=10% or less, Satisfactory=12%, Standard/Expected=15%, Exemplary=15% or more. Classifications of these levels could be set by local/state restaurant associations as a self-governing way to manage a broken system. Those agencies charged in regulating restaurants should look to other industries such as the financial services, healthcare, transportation and others to see how they manage additional service fees and charges.
The alternative is simply forget tipping altogether and restaurants can simple set their prices accordingly taking out the subjective component of tipping. Patrons will either buy from these restaurants for their quality or not.
It happened to me once that the waiter gave my table distinctly poor service, and seemed to be relying on the automatic tip. You can bet I was annoyed. Being with a group, we paid up, but I complained to the waiter – and, more importantly, to the manager. I complained not about the tipping policy, but about the waiter's service.
I think auto-grats are appropriate. No doubt, under-tipping by customers – especially large parties – is far more common than the sort of service that merits a less-than-standard tip.
I have been a waiter and manager in the food industry for over 25 years.Its been my expierience that generally people are pretty good about tipping,HOWEVER,there are also many,many people who come in,are rude,demanding,chronic complainers,find ANYTHING they can dig up to justify a discount or a freebie,then they stiff the staff, or leave 5%.I am an excellent waiter, have allways loved what i do, but those customers are the ones you read above who make any excuse NOT to tip fairly. I would LOVE to find out where they work and give them a taste of their own medicine. I think many foget that any of us also have families to support, only make minimum wage are taxed on the tips we make, and we are tipped actually based on food sales. SOOO if my only table was a part of thirty and based on their food bill i should have been tipped 150.00, and they act like the negaive cheapskates in some of the comments and they leave 50.00, well then i pay taxes on 150.00 regardless. so i paid for your meal in a way. Those are the nights when i think some people want everything...for nothing!
The poster below is right, why would you expect to get tipped $150 for a large table? How long did you wait at the large table? I'll be more generous and give you $50 per hour. Now, you will not, with a straight face, tell me you worked for three hours straight to ferry them food. Were they even in the restaurant for three hours straight?
And feel free to come to my work. I get tipped zero, nada, and I prefer it that way. My doing a good job is not contingent on ransom and blackmail.
Thanks for addressing the tax situation, Rick. Most people don't realize that servers, bartenders, casino dealers, etc. are taxed based on an IRS formula AS IF they received tips... and many, many times they're just paying income tax on tips they've never received.
Rick
"also many,many people who come in,are demanding"
There's NO SUCH THING AS "DEMANDING", because your job is to get us what *WE* want. If you feel people are demanding, you are LAZY, plain and simple. NO ONE IS DEMANDING, NO ONE!!
"chronic complainers"
I wouldn't complain if the service would be good.
"find ANYTHING they can dig up to justify a discount or a freebie,then they stiff the staff, or leave 5%."
Most people don't do that. There are some people that do. My husband and I are *NOT* one of those people. If we stiff, it's because the service was *HORRIBLE*.
"I am an excellent waiter,"
May I ask, do you do the following:
1. Try your best to deliver food correctly as far as anything that you don't have to touch to notice any mistakes *BEFORE* bringing out the food.
2. Do you compare the check prices to the menu prices to make sure you aren't overcharging the customers? We have had MANY WRONG PRICES due to the LAZY SERVERS THAT DID NOT *CARE* about OUR MONEY, just THEIRS!!
3. Are you *CONSIDERATE* such as bringing out non-bar drinks out *BEFORE* any bar drinks in one party for example to think of the people's thirst?
4. Do you write down *ALL* REQUESTS that are asked for? So far, I haven't seen ONE server do that, NOT ONE!!
So if you don't do all of those things, you truly aren't a good waiter. Good servers TRY THEIR BEST!!
"but those customers are the ones you read above who make any excuse NOT to tip fairly."
NO, most customers actually have REAL VALID REASONS WHY they don't tip. The ones that are cheap are just cheap. I am not talking about the cheap ones. I am talking about the ones that aren't cheap.
"I would LOVE to find out where they work and give them a taste of their own medicine"
I NEVER would think if I would make a mistake I'd still deserve 20% if I were a server. So you are WRONG about that!!
Sorry, rick... most of the waiters that think they do a good job are delusional. I am tired as a customer of seeing flocks of servers standing around complaining about their shifts, their miserable customers and everything else while tables of customers like myself go without service. Most kids today think that just showing up for their shift means "doing a good job" and I won't tip the standard 20% for someone who has better things to do than their job while I am their customer. Managers aren't much better. Most have a two-year junior college education (if that) and six months in the restaurant industry – and I am speaking mostly of the national chains. I have had so many visits for a meal ruined by these kids.
Maybe you should learn how to do your taxes. The IRS only taxes on tips actually earned, not the ones you did not get. See: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1244.pdf
If your employer is reporting that you earned tips that you did not earn, then either fill out your form correctly or report your employer to the IRS. You can do so anonymously, they don't need to know that you reported them.
Just for fun, keep track of how much time the server spends on you (and deduct the time that s/he wastes your time by smalltalk or trying to sell you overpriced crappy wine). Since I've been doing that, the maxium time has been 10 minutes, and here I'm accounting all the walking time from the kitchen and back. Now, for an essentially unqualified labourer, $30 an hour (majority of it tax free) is plenty. Teachers and firefighters make that if they are lucky, and they pay taxes from that. So simple math tells me that the most exceptional waiter I've been served deserves $30 per hr / 10min = $5 for his services. Note that I'm not even deducting their regular wage, let that take care of the idle time chitchatting with their fellow waiters making fun of customers. So, to keep it short, I switched to maxing out my tipping $5. I'm certainly not going to tip someone $20 after a $100 meal, what does it matter how much my meal costs? A plate of top sirloin is no heavier than a plate of tomato soup – in fact, it's easier to carry.
Ever been a waiter? That "upselling" is part of your job requirement. If you're found not trying to push the special or the wine etc you quickly find your hours cut, serving a section of the restaurant that gets sat last etc.
Do you really think that tips aren't taxed?
You are an idiot.
Ken,
You aren't accounting for all the time and your concept about how business works isn't right. Please enroll in several business classes at your local college and learn.
I'd love to be able to explain your errors to you in "100 words or less" but I don't know how to teach semesters worth of material in that concise a manner. (Do you?)
Please get some education and then you'll see the error of your ways.
Al
Al,
I have da edjamacation you is lookin fer, as well as entry level restaurant experience before that, and although Ken may not be seeing everything, I'm taking his side.
I don't tip at all. When you tip, you are encouraging establishments to not pay their servers enough, and if with cash, you are helping scam the government out of taxes.
Megan, they're still not going to pay their servers enough. I hope you don't eat out often, or at least not often at the same place. You'll get a rep at the places you frequent.
I don't like tipping. If we all stopped tipping then restaurants would be forced to pay their staff better wages or lose staff entirely. Or just charge more for meals and pay their own employees.
Its an excuse for restaurants and servers to provide poor service to groups and rip them off for a bigger "tip" on a larger bill.
Tipping: I will go ahead and pay the requested 17% or 18% gratuity when in a large party, if they are up front about it. When 20% is requested I begin to dig in my heels, STRONGLY. Never mind that I may well have paid 20%, rounded up, if left to my own devices, at any of these establishments.
I do believe that tipping should be a tip, a reflection on good service (or the real attempt at good service when the wait staff is understaffed - which is pretty obvious to diners when it happens). That being said, there are cheapskates who try to tip, say, 10 or 13% or less with a set of excuses. If this happens at a large party table, that particular waiter has troubles income-wise that night.
Actually, I can only think of one establishment ever where I tipped less than 15%. The waitress just had our table, she obviously acted put-out when we requested anything, because it took her away from her extended gossipy convos with one of the other staff, or from the checking of her lipstick. Though rarely used, I LIKE having this option to vote No when I have to.
I am shocked at how the percentage for tipping keeps going up and up. I refuse to pay this. I seldom eat at a fancy place and when I do tip, I don't leave it on the table for another staff member to pick up or a customer (some do). I hand it to the waiter. Whatever they do with it is up to them.
Thinkin,
I'm 52 years old and a few decades ago a 15% tip was considered generous. Now folks act like it's stingy. Put a frog in a pot of warm water and he'll think he's taking a warm bath. Slowly turn the temperature up and soon he'll be boiled.
Sadly, I don't even believe that the customer received subpar service or would have left any "appropriate" tip in lieu of the mandatory gratuity. You might say, "how can this guy know the customer is full of crap?" Well, I knew she was black before I got past the story's headline.
Sad but true. As a server I know we all can smell cheap from a mile away. Most everyone I work with has a degree (and those who don't I envy) which pushes 'Get a real job' off the table when you're dealing with $400 a month in student loans and your phd in American Lit is null and void. Which do you want 'get off the dole' or 'get a real job' I think serving is a fine solution. Unfortunately, $2 and change an hour is not going to cut it. To Insure Proper Service is subjective and without major restaurant reform servers are screwed. Appreciate that your food came timely and hot and imagine the screamfest going on in the kitchen when you ask your server to relay the message 'Do you have gluten free pasta?'
In this economy what did you think you were going to do with a phd in America lit?
Lmao! My sentiments exactly. A PHD in American Lit.? Sounds like a career in food service to me.
The server should already KNOW if you have gluten free pasta available. It's a valid request in these days of gluten sensitivity. Just politely answer yes or no.
Wow – what a sense of entitlement.
I see tipping as a reward for good service. Depending on how well the service was I'll determine if I give a tip or not. There are times that the service is so bad I will not give any tip as I would think that the price I'm already paying was more than enough.
What's ridiculous is making tips mandatory. If it is mandatory they should just add the tip amount to their menu prices instead of making a mandatory tip. Tip is a tip, not a fee.
I agree completely!
Indeed, it seems to me that mandatory tips make it *easier* for wait staff to provide lousy service because they are guaranteed money regardless.
i do not like automatic tipping. The tip needs to be earned. We were in the Bahamas last year (2011), and at the 4 star hotel they added on a high automatic tip that you paid (get ready) BEFORE you even ate. You paid for your buffet in full, with the tip. Then you were seated to eat. Trust me, there were several times that my drinks did not come, nor did my request for extra water or peanut butter. i was not impressed – but they kept my tip......
Extra peanut butter???
Absolututely correct
I have less of an issue with auto tipping as I do not bringing it to the attention of the customer and trying to get a double tip. True, you should verify everything, but the standard is not to auto tip. When the check or tab is brought to the table, the server should say, the tip has been included.
I personally would've POOPED and PEE-ED ALL over the bathroom floors, and smear the poop all over the mirrors, handles, just everywhere. Then I would've asked for a additional copy of the reciept, then I would've paid it, then I would've complained on "GOOGLE" and I would have made like 30+ fake emails complaining about this restaurant over the next month, once per day, and then I would've complained on most restaurant review websites. And told all my friends/family the place is crap. Then you win!
That sounds illegal, it clearly stats in the article, that the restaurant had locked its doors, claiming its illegal. I'm assuming the family paid with a credit card, so they basically have there names, and DNA samples of your urine and fecal matter. However, the comment you made about complaining on "GOOGLE", is a good idea, that is where your allowed to use the internet to your advantage.
Ok, I understand you'd be upset, but going to great length for revenge, including using your own turds, sounds a bit ridiculous, just go online and complain, don't lie, be honest, and people will take notice, chances are if you do it, more others will do it. Pooping and pissing only leads to legal trouble.
I see you have the intellect of a chimpanzee.
I think more and more people should pay only cash. And if a restaurant forces you to pay a 20% gratuity no matter what, then please stop eating there. If people get irritated by it, owners will lose money, servers/cooks/bussers will lose hours and look for a different restaurant to work at, and obviously the owners don't want that, and if they get enough complaints about the automatic gratuity then they will stop it. I think the restaurant should pay there servers not have the customers tip them, the servers could be doing a awesome job, but some cheapskate customer will tip nothing and thats legal....and if the server does a bad job and gets a few legitimate complaints then fire them!
I go to BBQ joints where customers aren't expect to tip.
I'm sick of tipping for poor service from rude people. The % always goes up. Why? Are the prices of meals going down to justify it? I don't even eat out because I hate tipping.
all the waiters of the world thank you for staying home because you sounds like a pain in the a$$
so if my waiter is a pain in the ass, why don't you stay home instead? Then we don't have to get bad service and all is right in the world and their would be no argument about bad service.
Maybe if everyone stays home, you won't have any problems and you can retire. Waiters expect tips for nothing like Clinton expected Lewinsky to...
Lol, they lock me in the restaurant, I call the cops and tell them I am being held against my will. What the restaurant did can be prosecuted as a FELONY(kidnapping for ransom), gratuities are /not/ guaranteed, they are just that a gratuity.
That isn't kidnapping for ransom. Kidnapping is removing you from the premises and relocating you to another location. Ransom is if they happened to call your family for monetary compensation for your safe return. What you meant to say was unlawful imprisonment and probably a host of fines in violation of fire laws. However, in this instance the restaurant can keep you for leaving if you refuse to pay, same as if you shoplifted from a store. They knew the establishments tipping policy on large groups and refused to pay. What they should have done was to pay the bill and then complain to their bank and have them refund the credit bill. This then turns into a civil matter. There is no criminal charge here unless they had walked out without paying, the police would be in their rights to enforce the "dine and dash" which is criminal fraud in some states.
actually locking them in a building and refusing to allow them to leave without arresting them is a form of kidnapping. However getting it prosecuted is extremely difficult. The Cop could not arrest them for not tipping. And just because you write that a tip of a certain percentage or amount will be added to a bill on the menu or whatever does not require someone to pay that amount of gratuity if any at all legally speaking of course.
Actually if it's part of your bill and the charge is legal then YOU are the one likely committing a felony. Failure to pay a food establishment is, in many states, felony theft.
Many people on this thread, myself included, question whether or not a court would find the charge legal.
A gratuity is just that. It's been taken to court before, and it's been determined you can tip whatever you want or none at all. The police officer should have gone after the restaurant staff for kidnapping instead.
The cop was probably getting "comp" food from the restaurant so they'll screw over citizens in favor of a feree doughnut. The restaurant staff should have been charged with a felony if they forcibly detained people to shake them down for money. Disgusting
I have lived in Japan for 27 years, where the restaurant is responsible for paying their own staff. The problem is Americans have allowed restaurateurs to force them to overpay for tremendous meals that they have to drag home in a shipping bag, and plus have to pay the staff for "service."
My typical practice is to pay in cash, then an automatic tip cannot be added to the credit card. I pay for the food and tip how I feel the cost of service was worth. If they don't like it, tough. They cannot make you pay a tip, that's illegal actually. Gratuities are not enforcable because the ownership does not pay taxes on that income, the server does. Therefor its between you and the server(s) if paying in cash. Good way to repay bad service, no tip at all
If restaurants want to grift their customers because they don't feel responsible for paying their employees a decent wage, then it's up to the customer as to whether or not they want to spend their money there. Parties of five aren't necessarily large parties. Large parties might need their own waitress or two – people who have no other tables. Then I can see a mandatory gratuity.
However, the whole subject of tipping should be up for discussion. I've had some really surly waitresses who could care less about their services, and who expect a nice fat tip. Sorry, I don't tip people for the doing the job they were hired to do, and I certainly don't reward anyone for poor service. I do tip the standard 15% for someone who is cheerful but doesn't work too hard, and I tip more for waitresses/waiters who are friendly, observant, sincere, and I tip even more for someone who goes out her/his way to do something extra, like the waiter who actually ran down the street to get a packet of barbecue sauce for my young son when the restaurant we were in didn't have any. He didn't have to do that, we didn't ask him to do that, and our son would have eaten his meal without it. It was a big surprise when he dropped the packet on the table and winked at us – that guy DESERVED a big tip. I've heard a few women carry on about the cheapskates who ONLY tip 15% and my reply to them is always "You don't like what you get paid, get a different job. Stop expecting your customers to subsidize your life." Because that's what tips are – welfare. Nobody tips me when I wait on people in my job.
The standard tip is now 18%, sweetheart. Yes, and many are implying it should be a nice and round number of 20%. This is outrageous since service has not improved, but prices on the menu have. The standard 15% is well about what these uneducated servers deserve, imho. Two people at a typical steak house can easily spend $100 for a modest meal. Is it worth $20 for a serve to bring it to your table and refill your drink after the glass has been empty for 15 minutes and you're choking on your food?
No. The standard is still 15%.
"No. The standard is still 15%."
NO, standard is 18%-20%. Think about what percent most menus have that have automatic gratuity for large parties. NO MORE 15%. Those days were like 2004 or so. I know, I kept an old Joe's Crabshack to-go menu of 2004, stating 15% added.
NOW it states 18%. The current menu is their website if you want PROOF. It can't be 15% your entire lifetime. That's not how INFLATION works.
Springs, if you believe you can raise the "standard" for anything, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like you to troll underneath; leave us alone here.
Oh, and if you can tell us what restaurant you represent or work at, I'd appreciate it so I can avoid it.
No, the 'standard' is to find a job where you can support yourself without what amounts to extortion. If you don't give good service, you don't get a 'gratuity'.
A gratuity, by definition, is a voluntary action. A gratuity cannot be 'mandatory' and voluntary at the same time. A 'mandatory gratuity' is an oxymoron at best, and generally amounts to illegal extortion and abuse of the customer.
If you can't make a living on a sub-minimum wage job because you have to live on 'tips', get a real job. With the prices restaurants charge these days, if they can't afford to pay more than slave wages, they shouldn't be in business to begin with.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gratuity
The standard tip varies depending on what part of the country you are in. Here in Connecticut it appears to be 17-18 percent. In the midwest (outside of Chicago) it is probably still 15%.
That's not actually how inflation works. If inflation is "working" at all, percentages can remain constant. Absolute values may change, but if the size of the bill increases, the return on a given percentage also increases. So - and this is simple, simple math - if something cost $100 one year, 15% yields $15. If it costs $200 ten years later, 15% yields $30. Percentages keep up with inflation even when they remain constant.
A server makes about $3-4/hr as a wage. Without tips, they would make NOTHING and then there would be no one to work in restaurants. Sure, you can argue that a restaurant should pay their server minimum wage, but since that is not the case, tips are the sole income and the server shouldn't be penalized.
Wow – Elizabeth, bottom line is it is a TIP. Not mandatory. IF they don't like it, get work else where. I"m an RN – give me a tip too next time you are in the hospital, i provide a service too.
"Because that's what tips are – welfare. Nobody tips me when I wait on people in my job."
I am also sure that you are paid minimum wage or greater.
OMG! Tips are welfare....I don't even know what to say to that except McDonald's is your kinda place.
wow you apparently dont know that restuarant staff dont get paid more then 4$ an hour from any place that employs waiters and waitress'... i think its common sense that if someone is a lousy server they dont deserve much of a tip, but your statement implies that servers are lucky to get any tip at all basically. if you can afford to spend 300$ on a nice dinner you can afford to spend 60$ for the 2 hours you will sit there and get attended to by a good server. thats the whole reason people work in restuarants. if you think tipping is "welfare , subsidizing" a servers pay, you are 100% wrong. go eat at burger king if you dont want to be expected to tip
300$ is my grocery bill for 3 months, not a meal out.
How do you know what I can afford based upon the price of the food I ordered. Besides, it's none of you business – just get your spoiled little axx back in the kitchen and get me my food, boy!
@springs1, the real sin, is going to Joe's Crab Shack, that place i pure garbage. Servers by my house are good but the cooks are terrible.
Tips aren't welfare, and I resent you calling them that. Servers work hard for several hours on end making sure their customers have a great experience. If you have had bad service, think back on how many times you have eaten at that restaurant and note when the quality of service went down. If you (or anyone is a terrible tipper), the word spreads and it's difficult to get great service anywhere that knows you are a terrible tipper. At the end of the night, a server has many other duties they have to do to close the restaurant. We don't get to clock in at actual minimum wage to do those things, we still get paid $2.00/hour. The tips are there to make sure we make $7.25/hour. I'm glad you appreciate great service and tip accordingly for that. Please, by all means, come to my restaurant. I just want to let you know that tips are not welfare, but something that is worked for and earned (if your server is worth a crap).
In California, ALL workers make minimum wage. so the theory of making up income to equal minimum wage argument is incorrect in California.
In general, I simply won't host meals in restaurants that have mandatory gratuities. In my experience, such policies diminish service quality, probably because there's no reason to provide good service when a large gratuity is guaranteed.
Forced into such a situation and faced with lousy service, I'd complain to the manager. Faced with being locked in and confronted with the police, who were unable to even determine if the situation was legal or not, I'd simply walk without paying after offering to settle for the price of the meal and nothing more.
On a more practical note, I'll be in Houston shortly, and La Fisherman has definitely been crossed off my list of dining options, even though my parties will be small enough to avoid the mandate. Or maybe I'll just go with one other person, be an obnoxious boor and overstay my welcome, then leave without tipping at all.
Pay the fee, as long as it was clearly stated on the menu. At that point it's part of the meal charge. You can't just decide you want to pay $20 for a $24 entree. You can ask for a manager and maybe come to an accommodation. If not, too bad.
Most of the time, the people who b- most about tipping and service are the jerks that restaurants really don't want to come back anyway.
So then why lock them in and keep them from their constitutional right to travel and not be falsely imprisoned? If it were my family being locked in a shty insurgent French resturaunt that smelled of rotten fish like a french who@e I would shoot my way out..... when you take away freedoms my fathers died for I declare immediate totall war.
No, if it says gratuity, it means its discretionary. This has been tried in court before.
Servers should be paid an appropriate wage so they don't have to depend on tips at all. The whole system is unfair and demeaning to the waitstaff.
The "gratuity" system is archaic and should be done away with. I'm a nurse, where's my tip? How about we pay waitress/waiters minimum wage and just skip the tip? I don't eat anywhere where I feel badly served twice anyway.
If waiters only made minimum wage, there wouldn't be any. Dealing with the general public in that way is a miserable experience.
Ron,
Restaurants would pay whatever waiters would work for, and mark up prices accordingy. Hey, what a radical idea!
You go to Denny's, get a scrambled egg for a buck. It cost them about a dime for the egg. Factor in the operating expenses and they're still making a profit. Now after paying a rather large markup on the egg, I'm also expected to pay additionally for the waitstaff and bussers because Denny's didn't include those wages in their pricing structure? WTH.
and then all the prices go up and you still pay more, but have no incentive for waiters to give better service.
and if waiters etc. were paid a higher wage with no tips and they did not perform then they would get a bad performance review and not get salary increases. Only good servers who received good comments on their comment cards would receive a salary increase like the rest of the people in the world.
Then, due to lack of service, customers stay home, crappy waiters get fired, remaining waiters do better job, business picks back up, restaurant hires more waiters and tells them to do a good job if they want to remain employed, and we're done with tipping crap, easy!
Dear Ladies and Gentlemen:
I always tip at least twenty percent, regardless of the quality of the service.
I increase the tip if I think the service was very good, or for any other reason.
Whenever I can, I buss my own dishes and completely clean the table before leaving the restaurant.
I don't do so, however, if that would be inappropriate, such as in a fancy restaurant.
Have a Dovely.
Sincerely yours,
Caleb Boone.
"I always tip at least twenty percent, regardless of the quality of the service."
Do you realize by doing that for bad service you are only ENCOURAGING to that bad behavior to continue? Positive and negative reinforcement works most of the time. WHY NOT TRY IT? Tip poorly when service is bad, tip well when the service is good.
Do you also realize by tipping well no matter what, you are actually affecting OTHER PEOPLE making their service be bad?
Well golly, you sure got such good manners.... if you're busing your own table you should keep it. LMAO! In fact stay at home and cook if you like doing all the work.
can you make me a sandwich, biootch?
Be careful with the sarcasm Caleb, some of these idiots might be demanding their customers buss their own tables tomorrow, in addition to leaving 30%.
The issue should be having a mandatory minimum decent base salary and not a mandatory tip. However businesses will do anything NOT to pay their employees and therefore love to pass the cost on to their clients. I am an american who has lived outside the USA for 20 years now and every time I return to the USA on vacation it seems like eveyone has a tip jar next to their register.... maybe we will soon see it at the grocery store and department stores !!..... any employee should receive the vast majoirty of their pay from a decent base salary and servers can have this augmented a little by giving good service. On a related note, I was also amazed last year when I returned to the states that automatically printed on the bill is a suggested tip!!!! even the new york taxi driver had this... and it started at 25%!!! I still cannot believ it... and it even showed how much to pay for even higher percentages!!!! The true enemy is the employer and not the client..... but as long as we continue out tip crazy decent into third worldism in the usa, then we only reinforce the continuation of poor salaries for workers. By the way, never tip at starbucks... their drinks are already expensive... the employees should be forced to revolt against their oppressor employer.... even better.... boycott these companies....
Vote republicans out of office. Its their creedo to underpay employees to increase their profits, then socialize any loses to the middle class taxpayers and make all patrons pay their server's wages as well. Its slowly being programmed into the brains of the consumers in America. Profits are paramount, service is normally below average no matter how much you pay... same thing in hospitals... you pay whatever they want you to pay, no a la carte or pricing lists.
This group was unlawfully imprisoned and the restaurant could be sued and the responsible parties made to pay in fines or jail time. As for the service charge issue, the restaurant is free to pursue its claim against the family. It would need to prove that the 17% charge (presumably described on the menu) created a 'contract', and that the family is in breach of that contract. It would probably be a waste of time to go to small claims court for $20-$50, but those are the options.
The cop is a witness to their false imprisonment and should have arrested the staff that locked the doors, or at least tased them to prevent it. Isn't he supposed to protect those citizens from false imprisonment and torture (having to talk to a manager is a form of torture). This must be an INSURGENT resturaunt.
Yep, It's Insurgent, it's FRENCH, La Fish. We should just burn it cause' it's f'n French. That's enough for me.
Y'know, I've seen Springs1 before, on some other story about tipping. The rage, the obsessiveness, the prolixity beyond all rationality? Unmistakeable. Now, I agree there can be legitimate service issues - though I've found that behaving like a civilized human being smooths over most any problem - but you get the sense that Springs1 keeps a stack of ratty diaries detailing every little offense or perceived offense she has suffered in her life, right down to the last minutiae and shekel and spends her evenings and nights muttering to herself as she goes over them one by one in her head, wondering at how so the universe could be so cruel as to allow someone to be in the parking spot she wanted or to deliver her a Caesar salad with slightly less dressing than she had dreamed of in her darkest fantasies.
"as to allow someone to be in the parking spot she wanted"
NO, I don't wait for parking spots unless the person is BACKING OUT OR I DO NOT have ANYONE behind me. It's the opposite complaint I have about this issue that people that want a spot will block you when the person isn't even IN THEIR CAR YET and they have someone behind you, so NOW YOU ARE TRAPPED, which all you want to do is LEAVE OR YOU WERE TRYING TO FIND A SPOT YOURSELF. I have NEVER and WILL NEVER BLOCK people as they have to me if the person isn't even in their car yet. That's just stupid and VERY SELFISH!!
"or to deliver her a Caesar salad with slightly less dressing than she had dreamed of in her darkest fantasies."
I don't order Caesar salads. If you are talking about ranch, if I asked for "SIDES" of ranch, I don't expect half a side. I ORDERED a SIDE that means the CONTAINER WORTH, PERIOD!! It's common sense if I am ordering let's say 2, WHY would I want a little bit, DUHHH?
Um, yeah, you kind of missed the point a little. Jeeeest a wee bit. But I am amused that you took me so literally in order to continue your ragefit. It's fun.
Smug twit.
Indeed. Indeed. But I'm still right, nevertheless. Cheers.
If restaurants paid a decent wage, tipping would not be necessary. As to tipping (or not) based on your perception of the service–what measure do you use in determining if one server is better (or worse) than another?
Although I hate the practice of tipping, I always do, generally 15% (more if the server was outstanding). By outstanding, I mean that the server monitors my coffee cup, asks after bringing each course if there is anything else I would like, brings requested extras within a reasonable time, is pleasant, and notes when I put all my utensils on the main dish plate (my signal that I am done).
Would you like them to change and burp you, too?
No sweethart, you can jus do me a Lewinsky thanx
That's how I feel too. If they (waiters/waitresses) think they deserve a tip just because they exist, they should look for another kind of job. It's not my fault they don't get paid enough, why should I subsidize them because they chose a job that pays so low? I'll tip if they do more than just take my order and bring it to the table, and I'll tip a lot for great service. I don't blame a waitress for bad food, but I might for cold food, and I do blame the waitress if something is forgotten or if they don't come back to the table after the food is served except to bring the check.
La Fisherman needs some protests in front of their restaurant apparently.
Any restaurant where that is done immediately loses me as a customer. Tipping is and should be provided for a quality level of service. I would rather cook my own gourmet meal from scratch than go to such a place, but I regularly cook for myself anyway. Some days though, you want a break from cooking.
Locking someone in might have been committing a crime. I think it would be considered a form of abduction in many areas. In this litigious society we live in, I cannot believe that restaurant did that. They opened themselves up to a ton of legal risks.
What is missing here is the truth, Black's for the most part will not tip!!
You didn't really say that – and mean it – did you? When did race enter this discussion? I've seen and read this bit before and it didn't have pertinence; just like it doesn't today. Too bad you're just a staff sergeant, not a sergeant major. Then you might know how to behave like a human being. Does that sound justified to you? Do you feel 'dissed' because you're a lesser person, with a lesser rank, in an organization that DOES rank its 'staff', so to speak? Due to your being a lesser person, do you feel the need to put down people in the real world that you determine to be lesser? You likely possess a secret desire to be a bird colonel, but you don't – and never will – have the ability to achieve that position. Man, I really hope you just came on to agitate and aggravate. Congratulations if so. If not, you are no one that should be over anyone in our military. Go scrub some trash cans, Private.
Nope, it's true. Generally the worst tippers are black people, church people and foreigners, in that order. That's not a 100% guarantee, but it's enough to make any sensible server avoid them.
You cant really call blacks "people"
All apologies - not Private Jughead. Simply (and simple) BOOT.
You did not just go there.
all my waitstaff friends say blacks are bad tippers.
WOW. I wonder if all your wait staff friends are red necks?
Haven't read what others said but it depends upon the size of the group to me. If it's more than four people (that aren't a family, kids, etc) then that's ok – as long as the service is up to snuff! I've been out with groups of people that not only wouldn't pony up for what they ordered but stiffed me and others for the tip, too. But I DO demand that the server give us their FULL attention since that's what they're being tipped for, right? I'm a good tipper but not if the server expects it GRATUITOUSLY, so to speak. Earn your pay and you should get a good tip. So many expect to show up with your order and get paid for just doing their job with no consideration for the customer's desires, let alone their needs. Also, don't expect me to say "thank you" when you fill my glass or serve me food. You are there to WAIT on me, you're not doing me a favor. Miss Manners agrees with this, by the way. Thanks.
"Also, don't expect me to say "thank you" when you fill my glass or serve me food. You are there to WAIT on me, you're not doing me a favor. "
WOW, you are MEAN. Then don't expect an apology when you get things wrong then. What goes around, comes around. What a horrible person you are!
"Also, don't expect me to say "thank you" when you fill my glass or serve me food. You are there to WAIT on me, you're not doing me a favor. Miss Manners agrees with this, by the way. Thanks."
Oh wow.....I've seen your type at restaurants before. Little people with little lives that go out to eat just so they can feel like big shots and have someone WAIT on them. Being polite and civil does not make you any less of a person. You can still be waited on without being such an arrogant, entitled, boar. Just how much effort does it take to say thank you? Ever thought of treating people how you would like to be treated? No, you dream of being royalty and being waited on by your personal servants.
Heck, I say "thank you very much and have a nice day" when I'm at the drive up window at Burger King. It doesn't take a lot of effort to treat people like you would want to be treated. Try it sometime, you might find that you'll like yourself better when you start acting like you have some class about you. I feel sorry for you that you have to demean another human being to make yourself feel superior. Those people aren't there to make you feel superior and wait on you, they are there to make a living.
He should be able to act like a big shot. he is spending money on something he can do himself in his own home. Instead he chose to pay for your lousy attitude. The point is, if more people cooked at home, none of this would be an issue. I for one go out and eat less often because it is cheaper and I wait on my self with perfect service. :-)
Yeah, he's spending his money, so if he doesn't want to say thank you, he doesn't have to. But good, respectable people thank those that serve them ANYWAY, because kindness doesn't cost a thing. And even if he didn't say thank you – maybe the server quietly brought him a refill while he was in mid-sentence, talking to the rest of his party. Okay, fine. The server probably doesn't have his or her panties in a bunch about it, and I don't blame him, either.
But the fact is, that a person who goes OUT OF THEIR WAY to say or (especially type) things in a public forum like, "Don't you expect a thank you from me for doing your job – you're my servant as long as I'M paying the bill!" is generally a very entitled, nasty person who doesn't value others. I'd put money down that says this chap treats salespeople and servers and customer service reps like crap, objectifies attractive young women, kicks animals, and treats everyone that's not JUST like him like they are some sort of degenerate leper.
I eat far more meals in restaurants and cafes that I do at home (I"m a Road Warrior). I am a very generous tipper – when it is warranted. Normal amount for "good" service is 20%. I have tipped 50% on rare occasion, and 40% is not particularly unusual for me.
I never pay a check without a gratuity. Case in point: I just returned from a small town in South Dakota after a 2 day professional project. Each of two nights, I ate at the only two restaurants in town. In the first case, the young woman who seated me was also my server. Her every act of omission and comission told me she couldn't have cared less if I was in her restaurant or not. She did not make eye contact during my entire visit, and her greeting was robotic and insincere. Once my food was served, I did not see her at my table again. I had to go to the register to ask for my bill. She slid it across the glass, saying not one word. As such, I left a $0.50 tip on a $12.00 bill, and wrote a note on the credit card receipt saying "Gratuity reflects perceived value of service. Please consider another line of work!"
My 2nd experience (the next night) was marginally better, service-wise. Sadly, the young server explained nothing to me (e.g, specials, salad bar, etc.). I ordered a chef salad, and was provided a small plate with two chunks of turkey and two chunks of turkey. I was also served an empty plate. I found out later that I was responsible for building my own salad. I informed the server that if I wanted to make my own dinner, I could have purchased food at the local grocery store. She had nothing to say. I left a $0.50 tip on a $12.00 bill once again.
Servers who are professionals "get it," and do the job because 1) they love their work, and 2) know their livelihood and success are dictated by their performance. There are select restaurants I frequent while on the road. I frequent them because of the service. One can get food anywhere - one can get high quality service at far fewer establishments.
More often than not, people serving as servers have no business having the job, because they don't care. More often than not, "managers" also are misplaced in their jobs. They mostly do not instill a Quality Care protocol, and servers are pitifully trained – if they are trained at all.
A great server is worth a ton of tips. Reward them when you find them, for they are a rarity!
I was in a situation once where our large party was ignored by the waiter. Maybe he assumed since we would be forced to tip he could focus on smaller parties. My husband and another guy with us spoke to the manager who promised our glasses would be filled, but either he didn't tell the waiter or the waiter ignored him. This was summer in Texas and we were more thirsty than hungry. We waited fifteen minutes for menus and about half an hour for him to reappear to take our orders. The restaurant was barely half full. I am vehemently opposed to a set forced tip amount as they count on that and focus on smaller parties. I'll not return to that place again.
Not all diners have a corporate charge card
You know it's funny I have worked in the service industry for a while and the topic of tipping has rarely come up until recently. I suppose we are deep into a recession and so people are in general talking more about money. I have been left nothing for people who thanked me for my hard work and gave me a hug, and I have been left 20% by people who were totally rude. I had a church group walk out after not paying over $150 of their bill, even though they all had to-go boxes, to-go cups and had asked me to come to Sunday services. The truth is as a server, I HATE TIPPING. Everyday I go into work and everyday I take a gamble. Sometimes I work my ass off and at the end of the night, after working an 8 hour shift I come home with $30.00. If you do the math, 8 hours * $7.00/per hour (minimum wage in the state I am in) I should have at least made $56.00 but I didn’t. The idea is that if I don't make a certain wage then the restaurant where I work is supposed to compensate me, but if you talk to any server you will know that is not the case. In fact most servers rarely even get a pay check, not to mention benefits. Additionally, where I work I tip out the kitchen, a busser, sometimes a bouncer and sometimes I tip out a bartender when I myself am not bartending. Right now I am lucky. There have been places I worked were I had to tip out the restaurant, a hostess, the dishwasher and a number of other people in addition to the people I already mentioned. There is no way the consumer could know that I am responsible for paying part of the wages for all these other people, however, I am and I do. It should not be my responsibility to pay other people but it is. It should be the responsibility of the business owner to pay it’s employees. However restaurant owners save customers money on food because they don’t have to pay much of their staff.
People like Springs1 think that by undertipping and complaining that they are somehow solving problems which is just not the case. The whole restaurant industry needs to be overhauled. Business owners should be responsible for paying the people who work for them, not the customers.
“Sometimes I work my off”
If you have the attitude that the worker that didn’t know his menu did when you work, then you DON’T work hard. Think about it. You want the money, but expect not to study. It doesn’t work that way in the real world. Everybody has to *WORK* for what they get. It doesn’t just appear magically.
“Sometimes I work my off”
If you have the attitude that the worker that didn’t know his menu did when you work, then you don't work hard. Think about it. You want the money, but expect not to study. It doesn’t work that way in the real world. Everybody has to work for what they get. It doesn’t just appear magically.
Springs1, we all know you have unrealistic views of what actually happens in a restaurant. I don't believe you actually even feel the way you claim you do and neither does anyone else. I used to find you mildly entertaining but even that has ended due to your unyielding resentment towards people who work very hard. Complaining about people online will gain you no glory. If you actually want to change things then do something. But you don't want to change things, you want attention in an area that you claim you are an expert in. However, by reading your arguments it is clear that you are by no means an expert. What do you do for a living? Where did you go to college? If you were half as hard on yourself as you are on servers I would imagine that you are incredibly successful, but...you are not. Because successful people would never put so much energy into being negative, mean and nasty. Please leave my blog alone.
mollykaitlinpace
"Springs1, we all know you have unrealistic views of what actually happens in a restaurant."
NO, the GOOD, CARING, and CONSIDERATE servers do as what I am preaching to do. You are just too LAZY to do the things I said just as some people are out there like that waiter that didn't study before he started his job that he could have DECLINED the job offer if he wasn't prepared. Taking a job is a *CHOICE* in this world. NO ONE MAKES someone take a job if they are not prepared, do they?
"I don't believe you actually even feel the way you claim you do and neither does anyone else."
WHY would I not? Obviously you are too stupid to understand that life involves *WORK*, not just if you want something you get it by asking a Genie in a bottle. You have to WORK for what you want in life.
"I used to find you mildly entertaining but even that has ended due to your unyielding resentment towards people who work very hard."
NO, until I pointed out that you want to CONDONE LAZINESS that it's OK to take a job you aren't prepared for or not to STUDY *BEFORE* you go apply to that job. THAT is when you started to not like that I pointed out how LAZY you were when I PROVED by the youtube video that at Chili's you have to *LEARN* the menu WHEN YOU INTERVIEW EVEN, *BEFORE* going on the floor. You just want to condone laziness, which I really don't understand at all.
"Complaining about people online will gain you no glory."
Yes it will to prove how LAZY you and that waiter really are. I mean, you can't get things in life without *WORKING* for it, DUHH!!
"But you don't want to change things, you want attention in an area that you claim you are an expert in."
I know more than you do and I have known the menu at restaurants I have NEVER stepped foot in before that I have proven MANAGERS wrong even as well as servers even and also restaurants I do frequent a lot as well. So *YES* I actually study the menu some *BEFORE* I even go to the restaurant if they have it online about what I want to order. I am not lazy like you and that waiter are that wouldn't do that.
"However, by reading your arguments it is clear that you are by no means an expert."
HOW? I proved you VERY WRONG even with that video and you STILL can't admit when you are wrong, can you? I mean this is a person that knows how Chili's restaurant works and you STILL can't admit you are wrong, it's comical, it really is.
"Because successful people would never put so much energy into being negative, mean and nasty. Please leave my blog alone."
This ISN'T YOUR BLOG and until you stop talking about me I won't. *YOU* want to be mean, negative, and nasty by promoting LAZINESS and BEING UNCARING about the job you are at towards your customers. That's mean right there. I couldn't imagine serving customers and not *KNOWING* **WHAT** I AM SERVING. That's just being lazy and uncaring. That's not nice, is it? That waiter WASN'T a "CARING" human being to take a job RUINING people's outings on purpose, was he? How can you say that's not negative huh?
"I don't want you or anyone else to be negative in anyway, that includes laziness."
But you *CHOSE* to do that when you put the lazy, uncaring waiter that took a job that you are OK with that didn't study the menu *BEFORE* APPLYING for the job.
WHY are you OK WITH LAZINESS? I don't get it, I REALLY, REALLY DON'T?
The waiter was stupid to take a job he wasn't prepared for. Taking a job is *ALWAYS* a *CHOICE* in life.
"but at this point I feel that they are just fabricated, as I believe you are fabricated. "
NO, they are ALL REAL.
"I don’t think you feel the way you do."
Because you are an UNCARING, SELFISH, and VERY LAZY HUMAN BEING, that's why.
You don't work hard, because you are too lazy to study the menu.
"Do you play any other characters online?"
I don't play characters. This is the REAL me. Remember, ******YOU******** DECIDED TO PURSUE ME, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. I am not blogging about you on my blog, WHY you chose to do that to me, huh?
Sometimes I work my off”
If you feel that the worker that didn’t know his menu did when you work, then you don't work hard. Think about it. You want the money, but expect not to study. It doesn’t work that way in the real world. Everybody has to work for what they get. It doesn’t just appear magically.
Seriously, springs1 is obviously a 15 yr old TROLL.... Don't feed the trolls.
kara
"Seriously, springs1 is obviously a 15 yr old TROLL.... Don't feed the trolls."
NO, DUMB IDIOT!! I am 35yrs old and you don't know WHAT you are talking about. You know what I am saying is the truth, just admit it!!
I always joked with my family and friends that I wanted to carry a "tip chart" and draw the line during the meal, down when my drink emptied and up when they refilled it. But I'll note that the staff at our regular restaurants figured that out pretty quick without the chart, and they keep our drinks always full. I usually tip over 18% to encourage them to continue.
Of course, when we go to a new restaurant with family and the receipt adds the automatic 18% tip, I pay it exactly, but I do MENTION TO THE WAITPERSON when they first bring it that I'm paying only 18% unless they remove the automatic gratuity from the bill because it offends me.
It is absolutely ridiculous that there are this many posts about tips or no tips. How can anyone reading this gloss over the fact that these morons locked a family inside the restaurant!!? Why isn't that being discussed? That was against the law, and the staff should have been subject to arrest for unlawful detainment at the very least. Had that been my family being imprisoned, 18% gratuity would have been the least of their worries. That family needs to sue someone's face off.
That would, indeed, be considered "false imprisonment."
I agree with you, the restaurant absolutely was in the wrong!! To lock them in, and not let them leave, is by law, abduction/kidnapping. I hope the family sues their pants off!! As for forcing someone to leave a tip, even if the service was horrible, that's up for discussion too.
No, this is wrong and the IRS should step in. First off, restaurant workers get paid a very small minimum wage- about $2.50. They make the rest up in tips. Now, there are two different ways to determine taxation. One is based on restaraurant revenues and the other is on bills for the individual server (I may have the wrong- can;t remember) but in either case the waiter/waitress need only report 8%. If wait people make less, there is a tip credit to make up the difference in pay. Now, if the restaurant if charging 17%, after tipping out to busboys and the bar, they are still under reporting to the IRS by quite a bit especially at expensive restaraunts. Thus, if restaurants are charging a tip, it actually becomes a restaurant charge and not a tip which translatres into employee wages and should be taxed at full amount. Why shouldn't any business charge for a car or book or clothes and then charge a percentage as a tip to employees and allow everyone to under-report their wages. I determine the tip- not the restaurant.
as many other people commented, even though the gratuity is included in the bill of parties with 5 or more, it is in no way mandatory and can be deducted for poor service. this restaurant should be sued for holding these people against their will.
In this situation, I would have called the police and filed a citizen's arrest against the staff for illegal detainment, as I was being held against my will. If I was "forced" to pay it, you better believe that I would be on the phone the first chance I get with my credit card company disputing the charge.
When a mandatory tip is included in my bill, if the service is anywhere from "not horrible" to "awesome", that's all they'll get.
If I don't have a mandatory tip, I'll leave anywhere from 15% for "not horrible" service to 25% or so for "awesome" service. Yes, I know, I overtip. But you'd better believe after the staff sees me tip 25% a couple of times, they'll be busting their butts whenever they see me. So overtipping has a purpose for me.
And this is in California, where state law prohibits employers from taking a tip credit. You have to be paid minimum wage, regardless of the amount of tips you make.
I would love to see food prices just go up 20% though and ban tips entirely.
"I would love to see food prices just go up 20% though and ban tips entirely."
Do you realize how BAD the service would be if they got rid of tips? Getting your 3rd refill or so would be like PULLING TEETH, because no one would give a care HOW LONG you waited for it. Seriously, getting anything would be a NIGHTMARE, because they would AUTOMATICALLY KNOW EXACTLY how much they are going to get, so they can be lazy if they want to. WHY you think fast food has orders wrong a lot? It's not just that they are rushing, there's times when it's not busy and the food is wrong, it's because there's no INCENTIVE to get the order correct there, but with tipping there is.
With the automatic gratuity they have ZERO INCENTIVE to give good service. I wish they would do away with the automatic gratuity, because it just leads to poor service a lot of times. If they have an INCENTIVE, they'd try harder. That's the TRUTH and YOU KNOW IT!! I hope they NEVER get rid of tips. If you think service is bad now, if they ever would get rid of tips, it would be HORRIBLE.
If the service was bad, they'd just lose all my future business. So yes, there may be one instance where I get bad service because what used to be a tip is included in my bill. But they would lose all of my future business, as well as bad word of mouth about my experience.
While service may indeed slip a bit, I don't see it being anywhere near as bad as you describe.
"If the service was bad, they'd just lose all my future business."
What if that was at just about every restaurant? Would you just decide to cook or get take-out?
"While service may indeed slip a bit, I don't see it being anywhere near as bad as you describe."
Sorry, I just don't feel that way. I find service is bad a lot already, taking away the MUCH MORE INCOME they make from getting tips instead of an hourly wage, you will get angry servers that don't want to do the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK FOR LESS PAY. I just don't agree at all. I feel service would be bad in that for sure, for sure, they wouldn't check your food for obvious errors(like correct side dish for example, condiments, etc.). They would have no reason to even more so.
"What if that was at just about every restaurant? Would you just decide to cook or get take-out?"
Yes.
Dining out is a luxury I afford myself. I can easily go without it if I am treated improperly.
That's how it is in almost every other service industry-why is food service different? If tipping is to reward good service then the mandatory tip opposes that-it rewards bad service. If tipping is to make up for the staff being underpaid then something should be done about their pay level. Talk to your legislators about that-don't expect management to voluntarily increase pay, they'll do that only when they start having trouble replacing staff. I can't see it-you tip hair dressers and barbers, but that's still to ensure good service-not because they're underpaid. At least those I know don't complain about being underpaid-but maybe that's because they do a good job and get good tips. (See how good a job they do after you get a reputation for not tipping them.) So why shouldn't food service staff only get tips for good service, too?
i dont agree. the incentive to provide good service as with ANY other business is repeat customers. if the service is bad people wont come back. if the restaurant owner trains his staff and pays them a fair wage they will do a good job. if they dont, they will get fired just like every other business. why does restaurant service have to operate on bribery?
"why does restaurant service have to operate on bribery?"
It shouldn't, but it does. Also, I do find a lot of servers out there think with the "WE OWE YOU NO MATTER WHAT" attitude.
I have read on another forum that the server said they wouldn't try as hard without tips getting min. wage instead and that they make more with tips.
I am just saying that they don't fire servers easily. They have to do something REALLY WRONG to get fired(steal or be rude for example). Most of the time, they can do something wrong and still keep their jobs. I know, since I have reported a lot of them and they are still there the ones that did us wrong.
I don't like the idea of tipping just to secure an acceptable service. That is not tipping - that is bribing! If someone does a good job of servicing, I tip generously, but I don't like the idea of them expecting it as if we owe them generous tips. That removes the voluntary element that is supposed to be in tipping. We are supposed to recognize good service, not just service!
@springs1 you are totally correct!
There was a recent article on this debate.
Google "Many Americans Say it is Time to Abolish Tipping"
The reason your argument fails is if restaurants paid a decent wage they would have a larger pool of applicants to hire from which would enable them to fire those who provide poor service. Right now, many people do not want to work in restaurants because the guaranteed pay is low.
Additionally, while the food price would rise, you would not see an overall increase in what you pay because you are already paying a tip on top of the food price. Eliminating tipping would stabilize the overall price of a meal while giving restaurant workers a steady income and rstaurant owners a higher quality workforce.
Google "Many Americans Say it is Time to Abolish Tipping" to read a recent article on this topic.
That's not correct. By law a server has to declare 100% of the money he or she makes. The gov. is usually happy with 10% of a servers total sales. As for the wages, in Texas a server makes 2.13 an hour. if at the end of a normal work period that server as not made a regular min. wage (7.25) an hour through tips then by law the restaurant has to make up the difference. But that almost never happens. If a server is good he or she can usually make way more than 7.25 and hour. The gov. is happy if servers claim 10% of total sales because everyone is tipped differently. But in reality the law states a server much claim 100% of total sales. And believe me, the restaurant declares its total sale to the government so they know how much a server should have made. (I am a restaurant manager by the way)
As for the story, you can not make someone tip, even if it is written on the menu. There is no law enforcing tipping. Plus it is bad restaurant policy to do so. If anyone held this family against their will for not tipping that is kidnapping and the FBI should be called in.
i hate the entire tipping thing. why not pay waiters and waitresses a fair wage and include the cost of their labor in the price of the food?
In many European countries the food price already includes "the tip portion" for the food servers. That way it's guaranteed that servers are taken care of. The service is still good in most places, and I prefer this kind of arrangement. In U.S. servers rely on the customers' generosity, and many times might not get tipped at all. But the servers still have to pay taxes on that income, too.
there are 3 to not pay servers more-
1. if restaurants paid servers 7.25 an hour your burger would cost $25
2. if restaurants paid servers 7.25 and hour and you did not have to tip, it would take an hour to get your burger and it would be cold. The is built in to the bill in Europe....have your ever tried to flag a waiter down in Europe and ask "where is my burger". We they know they are only getting paid a fraction of what they would if they were being tipped so they dont give a damn about your burger or your dining experience. It's socialism to ask waiters to all make the same pay.
3. servers make much more than 7.25 (if they are good) off of tips so don't worry about them not making money!
I was a single mother and put myself through college waiting table at Chili's and I never wanted to be paid the "real" min. wage. I was great at my job and make way more in tips than I would have ever made if I had been only paid "real min. wage without tips.
"It's socialism to ask waiters to all make the same pay."
That's just...wrong. Totally incorrect. You're very misinformed.
Lee that makes no sense at all. A burger with fries and coke is $7 at a fastfood joint. Pay is about $8 an hour with no tip. Use some logic before you speak.
A fast food joint does not have the same overhead as a Chili's or a mom and pop dinner. Also because wages are lower, most sit-down restaurants offer their employees insurence, tuition reinbursement, and other benefits. They would no longer be able to do that if they had to pay 7.25 and hour.
and besides Michael.....do you want the same service at a sit-down experience you get from a fast food place. Try taking a date to a romantic dinner at McDonalds some time! And I am using logic, I was a server, a bartender, a restaurant manager and accounts payable for Chili's for 12 years. I know "logically" so to what I speak!
Sure, at a 'fast food joint' that uses Cheap meat and cheap everything and doesn't have to pay real cooks, just high school kids who can stand at a stove.
A REAL restaurant pays more for food supplies, more for actual SILVERWARE, pays for huge machines like dishwashers, more for rent for their space, more money for laundering their table LINEN, has to pay higher wages to real chefs and people who Went To School to learn to cook, have to usually pay for a liquor license, pay for real plates and glasses (which break and constantly have to be replaced) and so on and on.
So, how about YOU do some MATH before you start writing????
Lee, there are too many reasons why your arguments fail for me to take teh time and point out here.
But a main one is that while the food price would rise, you would not see an overall increase in what you pay because you are already paying a tip on top of the food price. Eliminating tipping would stabilize the overall price of a meal while giving restaurant workers a steady income and rstaurant owners a higher quality workforce.
Google "Many Americans Say it is Time to Abolish Tipping" (CNN won't let me post the link) to read a recent article on this topic that explains why eliminating tipping is a good idea.
I would rather not be held responsible to subsidize someone else's paycheck. Restaurants are businesses and should pay their fair share of employee taxes like any other business. And restaurant employees should pay THEIR fair share of taxes on any income just like regular employees. I'm willing to be that most waitresses DO NOT declare all their tips, some probably don't declare any. How is that not a hand out from me to you?
It seems as though for the most part, the only people who don't want tipping to be replaced by a fixed wage are folks who do this for a living and claim to be abused by the customers and grossly underpaid. Somethin smells awful fishy!
Question: When dining in a restaurant that has a policy of adding an automatic tip to a group of 8 or more, is it customary for restaurants to add the automatic tip to a group of 5 adults and 3 1yr old babies who ate baby food and a little from their parent's plates? I'm not complaining as our service was good and we tipped well above the mandatory added percentage, just curious.
GDN-the auto tip is based on the number of plates served (in a perfect world). There will always be servers out there who try to take advantage of the situation. However an auto tip is not like paying for your burger, you are not required by law to pay the auto tip it can only be a suggestion even if it is printed on the menu. I was a server for many years at a nice restaurant and hardly ever used the auto tip. But if your service was bad you can request them manger and explain why you do not want to pay the tip and there is nothing he or she can do about it. If one of my servers added and auto tip based on a baby that did not eat I would let them go or at lease write them up. At Chili's a server has to request a managers approval before auto adding the tip.
I don't understand why restaurants in this country are the only business allowed to pay less than minimum wage and then the consumer/patrons make up for it with "tips". Can someone explain this to me? Tips should be at the consumers' discretion ONLY and restaurants should have to pay their staff just like any other business owner.
Is it true that in some states servers can be paid less than minimum wage on the expectation that they will receive some compensation through tips? If so then your argument falls apart.
That's true in most states in the US. Federal law allows employers to take a credit for the tips servers receive, down to a certain minimum amount (I believe it's $2.13 where the federal minimum wage is somewhere around $7). Legally, if the server does not receive tips to bring their pay up to the minimum wage, the employer is supposed to cover the difference.
State and local laws can increase the minimum wage amount or disallow this tip credit. California as a state disallows it as well as having a higher state minimum wage ($8); from some comments I have seen New York may disallow it as well, although I am not certain of that.
But yes, in most of the US, employers do get to pay less to tipped employees.
Change Needed-if restaurants paid their servers 7.25 your burger would cost 25 dollars. Severs actually make much more than 7.25 an hour. if you ever hear a server complaining about their pay then they are a bad server. You do not want servers all making 7.25 an hour, your food would be slow, cold and the experience would be like a McDonalds. Not that there is anything wrong with McDonalds unless you are on a romantic date. Better servers make better tips, which means you have a better dinning experience. Most finer dining places offer benefits and insurence to their employees, which they could not do if they had to pay 7.25 an hour. Servers would start quitting in mass because their pay would be cut in 1/2 . If people know waiters now make 7.25 an hour they would stop tipping as much and waiters pay would drop. I know what I am talking about. I was a single mother and put myself through college waiting table at Chili's. They offered health insurence, financial aid for school and paid vacations. I made 2.01 then 2.03 then 2.15 an hour from chili's which added up to about 80 a week take out taxes an SS my check was about 5 a week. On the other hand I made 500 a week in tips. The taxes from my tips also came out of the "chili's pay". I would not have changed it or the world. Back then min. wage was 5.35. So I would have made about 215 a week then take out taxes and SS I would have only made about 145 a week. I would have never stayed and I would have never graduated college and I would not now have a BFA and 2 masters degrees. So to make a long story short....paying all waiters the same pay is socialism and you would not like the service your would get!
After being a waiter for 6 years through high school and college I have waited on large parties, upwards of 25 people. My manager never let us add in the tip. Most of the time, patrons tipped more than 18%, so therefore you wouldn't want the tip added in. I also can honestly say, anytime I was stiffed, I never chased people into the parking lot. That was grounds for being fired on the spot. I agree with what the family did, if I had bad service, I would refuse to pay the tip as well. The manager or owner of that restaurant should be ashamed that at what his employees did.
What gett me is when they call it a gratuity. What they chould legally be required to do is to call it was it is, a service charge. Merriam Webster defines gratuity as "something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service;" If you are under complulsion to pay, that is no longer a tip but a charge. State it as such. There may be other legal ramifications on it, but that's for the business to handle with the state folks as well as the IRS.
Secondly, the laws need to change such that restaurant workers make minimum wage. Period.
I believe an autograt is acceptable for large groups, but since when does five diners qualify as a LARGE group? Sounds pretty in line with the average family size in the US. 10 or more diners is different but if a server can't serve a table of FIVE and still tend to other tables, maybe its time to consider a new line of employment. And if the diners had legitimate complaints about the service and had good reason to request the manager remove the autograt, then it should have been removed and an apology made for the lack of quality service. I think we as a society have lost sight of exactly what the gratuity was meant to represent and that it is EARNED. No server is ENTITLED to a gratuity if they do not provide a quality experience. I run a restaurant and if that ever occurred in my establishment, I would waive the autograt so the server could reflect on that lack of service while they are counting that much less tip money at the end of their shift. Its a customer service industry and if the service isn't there, eventually, the customer won't be either. And then what are we left with? A bunch of unemployed bad servers.
I agree the tip should have been paid. If the policy states a Large Party tip, then the large party should comply. If there actually is a problem with service, ask to see the manager well before the meal ends to rectify matters.
My husband and I used to deliver pizza during the same time to pay two mortgages. Since then, I've got more respect for good & generous tipping; we tip much better now.
Pay waitstaff federal minimum wage. What is it, $8.75 now? After that, we can tip if we feel like it.
Sadly, it's still only $7.25. It really needs to be $12+, but that's another discussion for another time.
STOP!!!!! Stop talking about tips! It's ridiculous! When the restaurant locked the door they violated Texas Penal Code 20.02 Unlawful Restraint and comitted a state jail felony, since I'm sure the family had a child younger than 17. That is what all the hoopla should be about, not whether or not this family should have paid the stupid tip. Wake up people!!
@Jason...you are 100% correct! There is no law enforcing tipping, tipping is mandatory even if it is printed on the menu and posted on the wall. A tip is a suggestion not a requirement. However holding someone against their will is a federal offense and the FBI should have been called. To only ones who broke the law in this story was the restaurant.
Tips should never be mandatory. People leave tips for quality service, and small tip or or none for bad service. By making tip mandatory, the restaurant are allowing their service to get lazy and lax without worrying about reduced income. I generally avoid restaurant that has mandatory tip included, too many of them had slow service, no refill, and other problem.
The restaurant manager or owner should instead look into the quality of service the employee offers. If the service are so bad that they need to add mandatory tip, they should consider reassigning the employee somewhere else or firing them and putting good people out to handle customer service.
Legally, this restaurant is in big trouble – the gratuity, even if listed on the menu or other signage, is "suggested" or a "recommended policy" but not the law in any state that I am aware of. You can still dine with a large party and adjust the tip to what you want. Tipping is not mandatory at all. All that restaurants are allowed to do is try and put the tip on, but if any objection is made, the customer is correct. What DOES have to be paid for without a doubt, and under the law, is food/drink consumed on the property, so long as no prior issues were discussed and agreed upon to reduce or modify that portion of the final bill.
Restaurants do not play by the same rules as other businesses; they do not (or did not) have to pay minimum wage. I worked in restaurants back in college and was constantly amazed at what they tried to get away with. We only got paid something like 2.11 per hour back then and when the rate was raised (by law) to something like 2.15 per hour, they still weren't paying it until the wait staff said something. It's a minor point, even a minor amount, but it's the principal.
The guests should press charges against the restaurant. Tipping is not mandatory. Name another business where the customers DIRECTLY pay the salaries of the employees. I always loved how restaurants compare servers to commissioned sales people. NOT THE SAME. Most sales people have a binding contract to be paid a set commission (like a percentage) which can be enforced (even if verbally agreed to). Guests have NO contractual obligation to the servers. The "commission" they leave is discretionary in both (a) how much and (b) whether to give anything at all. I feel the real problem here is the restaurant industry itself that is always looking for ways to increase their margins.
@Jonathan...hairdressers and topless dancers actually have to pay the places they work to actually work their, they must rely on their clients to pay their wages. Dancers also only get 2.13 and hour but you don't see them complaining!
Good waiters may far more than they would if a restaurant paid them 7.25 min. wage. To pay all waiters the same would be socialism, your dining experience would be slow and I am guessing by the way you are complaining you were not a very good waiter.
Tipping is communism – share the wealth. I thought people in the USA fought to stop communism ? As to the idiot that says paying servers the same rate is socialism – any good business would pay more more money to better employees. Capitalism means free choice, communism means no choice. Therefore if you truly believed in capitalism you would not tip at all.
I don't agree with a "tip" being added to any bill at a restaurant, including simply for take-out orders. I don't want to hear about the poor wages of today's servers, because most of them either don't report the full income or file taxes at all to begin with. I've seen the quality of service decline so badly in this country that it's not even a pleasure to dine out anymore unless I really know the place I am going has high standards (and I'm not talking about the lousy chain restaurants that hire the ex-cons to cook in the kitchen!) If/when I get great service, I tip accordingly, but I will not be told the amount to leave or forced to have it added automatically.
I don't have a problem with added gratuity, but you should be able to pay less if the service you have received is poor. I rarely tip less than 20%, because I know wait staff do not get paid well. BUT I do like the ability to tip less if the service I receive is sub-par. I have experienced being in a larger group that had an auto gratuity added to our bill where we received horrible service ie orders were wrong, drinks were never refilled, etc. We did adjust our tip to 15% after speaking with the manager. The waiter received a tip, but not an inflated tip for not doing an inadequate job.
I wonder why the focus is on the debate of the restaurant's right to add an automatic gratuity and the completely dropped issue of the fact that employees locked the family in the building and refused to let them leave. Was their rationale that the family were thieves and it was a citizen's arrest? I cannot believe that the manager did not have the common sense to come to an agreement or compromise with the customers. Their only recourse was the unlawful imprisonment of a family, which I assume may have included children? In the end it may have settled itself, because I imagine the family will never bother to enter that facility again.
Tips are the biggest scam going. Restaurants use the lure of tips to pay their staff low rates, claiming they're "motivated" to provide good service. Patrons are coerced into paying 15-20% – I've seen waitresses chase diners into the street because they were unhappy with their "tip".
A mandatory tip undercuts the restaurant's argument that staff are motivated by their tip – IT'S MANDATORY.
If you cant afford a tip then dont go. Thats the system.
Yes it is ok to add a percentage but it also should be ok for a person to refuse it if the service was poor and doesnt desrve that large of a tip, servers should not take for granted that they already have the tip and treat the party badly.
That is the interesting part here. They weren't just refusing to pay it, but claiming the service didn't warrant it. On the other hand, it IS a stated charge. The menu apparently clearly states that a gratuity of 18% is added to parties of a certain size. So there's no way to say you didn't know or that you didn't expect that fee as part of the bill. It's like saying you only want to pay $8 for your $16 stake because you only enjoyed it half as much as you wanted to.
It's an interesting situation, though the second they did the "locking me in" thing I would call the police myself and file charges on them.
Servers should be paid minimum wage just like every other employee, and leaving tips should be optional. Any tips earned should be an extra reward for exceptional service, instead of constituting the majority of workers' salaries.
My problem with tipping in general is that it has slowly become thought of as mandatory. Servers now believe that a tip is a requirement. No matter how porrly they do their job they expect a tip, and the customer is lambasted for not providing one. What happened to tipping on the basis of excellent service? I understand the life of a server is no walk in the park, but nothing in life is guaranteed, earn it.
Don't know if you've ever waited tables, but in most places waiters are paid half-minimum wage (or less, back when minimum was was $5.75, I think, I made $2.13 an hour). Virtually their entire take home pay comes in the form of tips. Granted, they are supposed to provide good service for that tip, but so long as you get even average service, you should tip. It IS somewhat mandatory. If they don't do the job (don't refill drinks, etc) that's one thing, but if they do, even if they don't go above and beyond, 15% should be left.
Now I do agree that everyone and their brother wanting tips, including people making full–if still small–wages is annoying. Not every barrista and ice cream scooper needs two dollars dropped in the jar for literally 45 seconds of work. But waiters pretty much are only compensated by tips in most places.
Tips are NOT required, tips are EARNED. I will leave a 20% tip if the service is above average, 10%-15% if it's below average to adequate. Excellent service earns a higher tip and poor service earns little or no tip. I work just as hard for my money as wait staff. I think of tips as a reward for service well done. Why should I reward poor service?
There is no such thing as "somewhat mandatory". The whole point of "gratuity" and "tipping" is that it is your choice to thank the server for their service... or not. Look it up, it's voluntary.
If it is clearly stated that large groups will have the gratuity added to the bill, I have no problem with it. But I do expect good service for that gratuity. If the service is not up to par, then I would speak to management right away, and would expect something to be done. The problem that family faced was not only bad service, but also bad management. I have both waitressed and managed resturants, and it can be a thankless job at times. But I always did my level best to make sure that my tables were properly taken care of. Sometimes the people tipped well, sometimes they did'nt (those are the cheap ones that will always find fault) and one time I was so busy and screwed up this table so bad, (I really didn't mean to, it was just a crazy busy night) that I actually refused to accept the tip, which I couldn't belive that they were going to give me. Turns out they were really nice understanding people, and became regular customers of mine. Resturants should pay their staff a decent wage, and I mean all of their staff....waiters, busboys, food runners, everyone! But they won't because it will affect their bottom line. I made good money waitressing, because I was good at it, but I worked damn hard for every cent.
I just order my food to go, cheaper for me, I don't have to tip someone who provides crummy service, or aid and abet a cheap restaurant owner who won't pay his employees what they are worth.
I just order my food to go, cheaper for me, I don't have to tip someone who provides crappy service, or aid and abet a cheap restaurant owner who won't pay his employees what they are worth.
These threads are usually filled with angsty servers, angered at the thought of customers... even the nice ones out of us
Personally I think the owner is to blame here, by paying them so low they have to rely on tips.
However in this case, 5 people hardly counts as a large party. The restaurant will either lose business or people will just split into 2's and 3's.
If I go to a place that has this policy in place with a party of eight, we'll spli into two parties of four and sit side-by-side. Then WONT tip. Let the resturant pay the waiter an appropriate wage, don't look to me to pay their salery.
You probably don't wait your turn at 4-way stops either.
Ha ha! nice! :)
Great Retort, Liz! Good Job!
Can you tell me what the difference is if a server brings two plates and a cup of coffee that total $100 and two plates and a cup of coffee that total $20? It's still two plates and a cup in both instances. Shouldn't the tip be the same? I don't understand the "percentage" method at all!
And do you know that some servers in high end restaurants actually PAY for their positions?
nothing...that why i NEVER tip
And that is why your server probably spits in your food the next time he sees you.
There's a big difference! At the end of the shift all food servers' total sales are calculated. The servers have to report the earnings at the end of the shift. Let's assume that 50% of the customers stiffed ( did not add a tip at all), but IRS assumes that 100% of the customers tipped, the servers still have to pay taxes on that " assumed" amount. – See,
if you stiff a server, he/she still pays taxes on your meal!
"if you stiff a server, he/she still pays taxes on your meal!"
Paying taxes doesn't have *ANYTHING* to do with tipping(the action of the CUSTOMER). What you have to pay to your other co-workers and taxes have NOTHING to do with customers, so please refrain from mentioning these issues. It doesn't matter.
A good friend of mine was a waitress. Many times,when there was a large party that was assessed a fixed gratuity, she did NOT get it all. She would get about 8 to 10% of it and the restaurant would keep the rest. She worked a New Year's Eve party one year, and the cost per couple was $160 plus 18% gratuity. She had 6 tables of 10 to wait on, and she was paid $150 for the night. If you calculate it right, the restaurant collected $864 and kept $714 of it! Kicker is, at the end of the year, she had to pay income tax on $864!
I want to pay for service received; after all, that is what a "tip" is. As such, I resent being told that I am required to pay a certain amount and having it tacked onto my bill without my consent. As such, I avoid restaurants that have this policy. As far as the family locked into the restaurant, I would have been on the phone with the police myself because that is surely unlawful detainment or some kind of kidnapping offense.
To me, a gratuity is not the same thing as a tip. Large groups are frequently higher maintenance than a bunch of small tables, and they nearly always take a long time. Large tables prevent the server from having as many transactions for one night. While this story sounds like an exceptional situation, the proper thing to do is pay the gratuity and complain to the management the next day. Unfortunately, theywill probably compensate you with a gift card, which means you have to go back to the restaurant...
I find the racial diversity of this picture comforting.
I liked that too, but didn't much get the brothers white hair dye job!
This all comes from greed from the restaurant. If they want to be so sure the waiters are well paid, then pay them wages more then 2.75 an hour! Pay them a good wage and we wont be having this conversation. Encourage a 5% tip and pay your waiting staff $1200 an hour. A good waiting staff is worth their wage, that’s what gets me back to a restaurant
$12.00 that is... lol $1200 is a little much I think.
Except that a lot of restaurants run on a razor thin margin for the most part. The difference in food cost to pay all your servers $12.00 an hour instead of $2 would raise your food bill out of hand by 20-40%.
I've worked in a restaurant both serving and cooking. I hated aspects of both, but the most damning is having to rely on the generosity of the people you are waiting on. The restaurant should be the one who pays its employees. When the restaurant gets busy and food comes out slow or incorrectly, its the waiter who usually pays the most price. Increase the "salary" of the waiter and you'll end up with higher quality waitstaff, less turnover and higher profits. Good food and bad service often times will mean less repeat customers.
"food comes out slow or incorrectly, its the waiter who usually pays the most price."
Most of the time when these things happen, it's all BECAUSE of the server so they SHOULD pay the price in most instances. Do you not have COMMON SENSE, huh?
If you think that's the fault of the server, you've never been a server. That error typically occurs on busy nights when there's no possible way everyone can get their food as quickly as they could during non-peak hours. Also, inexperienced kitchen staff often make mistakes and your server is taking some else's order so a different server or "food-runner" brings your order to the table.
I replied through the webpage for the rest.
"Also, inexperienced kitchen staff often make mistakes and your server is taking some else's order so a different server or "food-runner" brings your order to the table."
It doesn't matter, because the TIP is still altered since it's part of the service when a food runner or different server messes up. WHY should I pay well because the other server or food runner forgot my fries, huh? That's BAD SERVICE. It doesn't matter "WHO" in the service messed up. I don't get WHY you feel it should? Take away part of their tip and if you aren't tipping them at all, maybe you should if they mess up like that, it's called giving them an INCENTIVE to READ THE TICKET and COMPARE IT TO THE FOOD FOR DUH MISTAKES.
Marla
"If you think that's the fault of the server, you've never been a server. That error typically occurs on busy nights when there's no possible way everyone can get their food as quickly as they could during non-peak hours. Also, inexperienced kitchen staff often make mistakes and your server is taking some else's order so a different server or "food-runner" brings your order to the table."
You obviously NEVER been a customer that has SEEN servers be at fault:
If your food is taking too long it could be:
Ask yourself:
1. WHEN did you put in my order?
2. Did you put in my order CORRECTLY?
3. Did you FORGET to put in my order entirely?
4. Did you FORGET anything I ordered?
5. Did you bring out the WRONG FOOD the first time around, because you didn't VERIFY WHAT you were bringing me?
6. Did you FORGET OR DELAY GETTING MY ORDER TO ME?
7. Did you DROP my food on the floor?
These things CAN HAPPEN!!
Sometimes taking a long time or a longer time has A LOT to do with the server:
We have had 3 TIMES where servers FORGOT to put food orders into the computer. We also have 4 times servers forget to get bar drinks from the bar.
We also have had delays due to that the servers delayed putting orders into the computer when they COULD have such as deciding to buss a table first or decide instead of a mini-greet(I'll be right with you all), they decided to take like 6 people's drink/appetizer orders instead of putting in our food orders. I can understand if they call you over, but if they don't, you should be putting that order into the computer not delaying our food. The longer you wait to put in orders, the LONGER WE WAIT!!
Also, if your server put in your order wrong, that's THEIR FAULT you are waiting longer for your food, because the kitchen staff only knows what's on the ticket, PERIOD!!
My husband and I have had wrong food put into the computer and even stupid servers bring it out that took the order even. You have to be stupid to not even LOOK at WHAT you are bringing the person. Act like it's your food. I was once brought quesadillas when I ordered bbq chicken nachos. The waiter was too LAZY to COMPARE his written order to the food. Turns out, he admitted pressing a wrong button. So not only did he delay my food from getting to me by bringing me the completely wrong food, but also put in the order wrong to begin with. So he made 2 mistakes. That was the fault of the waiter, not the kitchen staff.
Also, if your server FORGETS something from the kitchen even though they put in the order correctly, that's on YOUR SERVER, NOT the kitchen staff since your server brought you your food. They have full control of what is in their hands they are taking you.
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Marla
Continued:
Condiments are the most common thing to be forgotten. That is the server's fault no matter who brings you your food, because my server can offer to bring those out ahead of time.
The same situation I mentioned above about the waiter that grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen has to do with the wrong food as well as time. It was just me and my husband. This waiter not only admitted he didn't compare the WRITTEN ORDER with the entrées he was bringing out by saying he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen, but also we saw he had other entrées for another table that he brought out on a tray that he put on a tray jack which he didn't ONCE get his pad of paper out to see WHICH ENTRÉE WENT WITH WHICH TABLE!! I saw with my own 2 EYES he didn't EVER get his pad of paper to make sure he was bringing his customers the correct items. So 2 times he could have caught his mistake, but didn't TRY HIS BEST AS HE SHOULD HAVE, because that's HIS JOB!! So this wasn't even REAL MISTAKE, it was a LACK OF EFFORT and BEING LAZY!!
He admitted that he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen. He brought my husband fried shrimp w/fries when he ordered crawfish au gratin w/baked potato. So it was HIS fault my husband's food took longer to get to him due to HE didn't check over his written order BEFORE bringing out all the entrées he brought out.
If your server delays going to get your food when they DO have a chance to run it, but they are chit-chatting about personal stuff, that is for sure their fault.
I would say 90% of the time your server had SOMETHING to do with how long you waited for your food by the fact that they didn't go put the order in as quickly as they could have in a fair manner that is. I don't expect our server to put in orders if they have food/drinks/request that came BEFORE we ordered, because they were BEFORE us, but when it is our turn, don't DISRESPECT OUR TURN by INTENTIONALLY DELAYING our food.
If the food is cold, sometimes it is the server's fault that they didn't bring your food due to that you were chit-chatting with your friends or customers instead of bringing out the food.
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Marla
Continued:
1. Once, we had a Red Lobster waitress had our 2 entrées on the tray as well as 2 side salads that were for a couple that wasn’t even there when we ordered. Anyway, instead of bypassing their table to hand us ours first since WE DID ORDER FIRST(common sense would tell you that it takes more time to cook food than it does to fix a side salad anyways even if it wasn’t our server that delivered our food, but it was our waitress that delivered our food), she decided to hand them theirs first off the tray. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE SERVER’S CONTROL TO HAND OUT THINGS OFF THE SAME TRAY IN THE ORDER IN WHICH IT WAS ORDERED IN!!
2. Once, we had a waitress that greeted us which we ordered an appetizer as well as our drinks when greeted. I saw she tucking in chairs at empty tables and pretty much doing everything but coming back to get our entrée order. Well, I found out what happened. She brought out our appetizer and when I asked she said that she wanted to wait to put in our entrée orders. The thing is, that delayed us more by not at least coming to GET our orders. That way, when the appetizer was ready, we wouldn’t have gotten delayed eating our appetizer since we then had to give our entrée orders when we could have given our entrée orders WELL BEFORE THAT and we would have gotten our entrées faster due to that she could have just left to put our entrée orders into the computer after delivering our appetizer instead of taking time to order when our appetizer was sitting in front of us.
The point is, SHE delayed our entrées as well as to be able to start eating our appetizer because she could have at least TAKEN our entrée orders and then when our appetizer would have been brought out, could have immediately gone to the computer to put our entrée orders in.
What she did was make us wait while our hot appetizer was sitting in front of us, we couldn’t touch it, because we had to order our entrées and could have done that wayyy before that.
She also delayed our entrées because we had to spend extra time AFTER our appetizer arrived to give her our entrée orders when we could have done that wayyyy before that.
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Marla
Continued:
3. Once, we had a waitress that assumed that because they were out of raspberry topping for a cheesecake slice when we had ordered dessert that she’d bring us strawberry. Turns out, she knew when she put in the order that the computer had it the manager told us. So she did it on PURPOSE to be so lazy and uncaring as to not come to ask if we wanted the next closest thing. We didn’t, we sent it back, so she had MORE WORK. Also, she didn’t even think about what if someone is allergic to strawberries. I just honestly can’t believe someone would do that. If they are out of something, common sense would be to come to see if the next closest thing is ok. Not everyone wants the next closest thing. So it wasn’t like it was just getting the order wrong by accident or by not verifying the written order with what she was bringing or putting in the order wrong by accident, this was on PURPOSE to be LAZY and to ASSUME. I didn’t know at first that she did that. I thought at first she just was that stupid(or truly just messed up(highly doubt it)) to bring us strawberries on top of a cheesecake when we ordered raspberries.
4. Your server delays coming to get your order or delays you ordering due to personal conversation. We have had that before as well. Once, we had a waiter that we didn’t know after waiting 15 mins. for a table on Mardi Gras day ask us BEFORE we ORDERED ANYTHING “How’s y’all’s Mardi Gras” “Go to any parades.” See, I don’t mind chit chat with a stranger, but be considerate to do it AFTER we have our orders into the computer so you don’t take up our time. THAT was in the server’s control as well. We have also had servers not come to get our order due to playing around. That’s in the server’s control too.
So just remember when you want to blame the kitchen staff, BLAME YOUR SERVER, because MOST LIKELY THEY CAUSED THE ISSUES!! THAT IS THE GOD'S TRUTH AND YOU KNOW IT!! You just don't want to admit the truth, because it hurts, doesn't it?
Remember the kitchen staff doesn't LEAVE the kitchen with an OBVIOUS to the EYES ERROR NOR do they put in an order wrong, NOR do they FORGET to put in an order, etc.
So doesn't this prove I KNOW MORE THAN YOU DO AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT? I KNOW, because we have been ********THROUGH************** IT!! You obviously have NO COMMON SENSE TO SPEAK OF, NONE!!
Marla
One more thing:
Servers DO WAIT to put in entrée orders when appetizers and soups or side salads are ordered as well, so that's DELAYING RIGHT THERE ON *********PURPOSE***********!! YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!! LEARN SOME COMMON SENSE, because YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE ANY!!
MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU WAIT A LONG TIME FOR YOUR FOOD, IT'S BECAUSE OUR YOUR SERVER!!!!!!!!!!!
typo
Meant "OF YOUR SERVER" NOT "OUR YOUR" Typed too fast.
You seem to have a personal hatred against waiters, did they spit in your food because of your "i'm better than you" attitude? Why else would you waste hours writing pages of comments, even though you obviously don't know anything, and let me repeat, anything at all about how restaurants are run and the jobs of waiters and waitresses. If your food is late, there are tons of reasons besides blaming it all on the waiters. It is entirely possible for the cooks to misplace your orders, or even cook the wrong thing even if the ticket is printed correctly. The poor service you received probably came about because of your attitude. So please, stop spitting out stupidity.
Em
"If your food is late, there are tons of reasons besides blaming it all on the waiters."
There are MANY REASONS. Did you NOT ***READ**** that I NEVER said the cooks were NEVER at fault. I said that MOST of the time YOUR *SERVER* is at fault.
"It is entirely possible for the cooks to misplace your orders,"
I NEVER SAID IT WASN'T!! The thing is, your server doesn't have to "BRING"you the INCORRECT ITEM. THAT is wasting time caused by the SERVER when they actually "BRING" it to you entirely wrong.
We have experienced more *SERVER* issues delaying orders than the kitchen staff, it's a FACT, NOT an OPINION!!
When you order an appetizer or soup or side salad, your server *INTENTIONALLY WAITS* to put in your entrée orders into the computer for them to not run into each other. The thing is, that delays your food a lot of times TOOO LONG!!
"or even cook the wrong thing even if the ticket is printed correctly."
I NEVER SAID THE COOK COULDN'T!! It's just **************RARE************ and YOU KNOW IT!! There's more times I see servers wait to put in your order instead of going to put your order into the computer.
I recently had gone to Red Lobster where I saw our waitress NOT GO TO THE COMPUTER WITHOUT BEING CALLED OVER to go FULLY GREET the table rather than just acknowledge that table with a *MINI* GREET of "I'll be right with you all" as *WE* have had done to US. Even the *MANAGER* AGREED with me when I told her that she had just taken our entrée orders and went to the next table, then went to ANOTHER TABLE to ask if they were ready to order(which they weren't). You see, I see that happen A LOT.
At Applebee's, we were triple sat(3) party of 2's, which we happened to be the 1st table. Our waitress decided to wait to put in all 6 people's orders instead of going to the computer after each table. By doing that, she not only delayed our orders, but she also put in my husband's order completely wrong. She put in ribs when he ordered a burger. Another server brought the food, but it wasn't that server's fault, it was OURS. Our server admitted putting in the order wrong and it was voided on our check. So you see, I see servers not do what they *SHOULD* be doing to not delay your food.
Also, servers will sometimes buss tables before going to the computers to put in orders when there's more than one computer but are too LAZY to go to another computer just because the one right by has someone at it.
Even if the cook the wrong thing, you don't have to be a DING BAT and *******BRING********** me the wrong thing, do you? HAVE SOME COMMON SENSE!!
At Denny's once, a waitress brought me onion rings when I ordered seasoned fries. I saw it was wrong *ON THE TRAY* even. That's how DINGY AND STUPID servers are today that cannot get a 2-top order correct even. I mean I can see if it was a party of 20 and then make a DUH mistake like that possibly, but it wasn't busy and she couldn't even get 2 plates correct, that's pretty bad.
So the cook may cook the wrong thing, that doesn't mean it should end up at my table. If another server brings it out, if the order was put in correctly, that server should have compared the ticket to the plate of food *BEFORE* they brought it to my table wasting more time.
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Em – Continued:
"The poor service you received probably came about because of your attitude. So please, stop spitting out."
NO, YOU ARE JUST MADDDD BECAUSE IT"S THE TRUTH that I KNOW MORE THAN MOST SERVERS KNOW AND WANT TO ADMIT!!
I have had times when I won battles with managers and servers about what the *MENU* had that I KNEW *MORE* than they did.
I know what goes on. You just don't want admit the truth.
If the cook does make the wrong thing, a GOOD, CARING, and NON-LAZY server would come to our table let us know about the situation rather than still waste time "SERVING" it to us anyway.
SO STOP, because you don't know ******WHAT******** you are talking about. WE HAVE **********EXPERIENCED**********OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN YOU HAVE OR THAT YOU WANT TO TRULY ADMIT!!
More times than not, it's your *SERVER* that messed up as to why you wait longer for your food. I cannot say always, just it's rare truly that the kitchen staff has delayed your food. We have had MUCH MORE TIMES that servers have messed up than the kitchen staff since Nov. 2000(been eating out 2-3 times a weekend sometimes), that means almost 12 yrs in Nov. compared to your non-sense stupidity of what you obviously don't know *ANYTHING* ABOUT!! I KNOW, WE HAVE HAD THIS STUFF HAPPEN!! I SEE* IF THE SERVER IS GOING TO PUT IN THE ORDER OR NOT. I *****SEE******* on our check at times the items rung up wrong or have had servers *ADMIT* putting in orders wrong. I mean when you see you just ordered and then your server having a bunch of questions because they decided without being called over to FULLY greet the next table instead of a mini-greet, you see *WHY* your food is delayed. If the kitchen staff doesn't have it yet, it's *YOU* that is delaying our stuff! Especially if we order an appetizer or soup or side salad.
Em – Continued:
"The poor service you received probably came about because of your attitude. So please, stop spitting out."
NO, YOU ARE JUST MADDDD BECAUSE IT"S THE TRUTH that I KNOW MORE THAN MOST SERVERS KNOW AND WANT TO ADMIT!!
Continued next posts:
Em
NO, you are just MAD because it's the truth that i know more than most servers know and want to admit!!
I have had times when I won battles with managers and servers about what the *MENU* had that I KNEW *MORE* than they did.
I know what goes on. You just don't want admit the truth.
If the cook does make the wrong thing, a GOOD, CARING, and NON-LAZY server would come to our table let us know about the situation rather than still waste time "SERVING" it to us anyway.
SO STOP, because you don't know ******WHAT******** you are talking about. WE HAVE **********EXPERIENCED**********OBVIOUSLY MORE THAN YOU HAVE OR THAT YOU WANT TO TRULY ADMIT!!
More times than not, it's your *SERVER* that messed up as to why you wait longer for your food. I cannot say always, just it's rare truly that the kitchen staff has delayed your food. We have had MUCH MORE TIMES that servers have messed up than the kitchen staff since Nov. 2000(been eating out 2-3 times a weekend sometimes), that means almost 12 yrs in Nov. compared to your non-sense stupidity of what you obviously don't know *ANYTHING* ABOUT!! I KNOW, WE HAVE HAD THIS STUFF HAPPEN!! I SEE* IF THE SERVER IS GOING TO PUT IN THE ORDER OR NOT. I *****SEE******* on our check at times the items rung up wrong or have had servers *ADMIT* putting in orders wrong. I mean when you see you just ordered and then your server having a bunch of questions because they decided without being called over to FULLY greet the next table instead of a mini-greet, you see *WHY* your food is delayed. If the kitchen staff doesn't have it yet, it's *YOU* that is delaying our stuff! Especially if we order an appetizer or soup or side salad.
Em
Another thing, the issue we had at Applebee's, it was to let you know that by putting in all 6 people's orders into the computer at once, you are truly more likely to mess up more than concentrating on getting 2 orders put in correctly into the computer at once. In other words, I am 99.9% positive that she would have put in my husband's order correctly if she would have just gone to the computer RIGHT AFTER taking our orders instead of going to get 4 other people's food orders. Especially, mine had mayo, mustard, mexi-ranch, bacon crispy, fries with no seasoning modifications. So when you have that many things to put in just for 2 plates of food and not counting the other people's possible modifications, it's MUCH EASIER to mess up when you put in all the orders at once rather than putting them in after each table orders. I am not saying it wasn't possible she would have put in the order wrong anyway, but it's to me more likely when you have more put on you ALL-AT-ONCE to not put orders in correctly.
She delayed also our food due to that ribs take longer and my husband ordered his burger MEDIUM WELL(NOT WELL DONE) therefore, the 2nd table got their food before ours(I ordered a grilled chicken sandwich with crispy bacon). We may have received our food sooner just for the simple fact that what she put in wrong took longer as well. It's not just counting she put it in wrong, but what she put in, TAKES LONGER TO COOK. Servers don't think about these things with common sense.
Also, waiting to put in our orders after taking 4 people's orders is just MORALLY WRONG, it's ***********CUTTING**************!! I doesn't have to be a LINE to have cuts. If I go tap my server on the shoulder as she is taking a food order to get us some refills, don't you agree that's CUTTING? If you do, HOW can you possibly see (ANY) difference in what I am saying?
Servers usually are the ones WHY your food gets delayed. IT'S TRUE!! WHY can't you just ADMIT YOU ARE WRONG, HUH? I cannot make up things, because everything I have said has truly *********HAPPENED********* to us. I am NOT MAKING THIS STUFF UP!! Can't you admit you are wrong for once, huh?
After reading the pages and pages and pages you have posted ALL OVER this thread over the span of SEVERAL HOURS on SEVERAL DIFFERENT DAYS (you are truly pathetic), I have determined the following about you:
1. You have never waited tables and have NO idea how it works – yes, servers wait to put in your entree, otherwise, you'd be four bites into your appetizer when your salads came out and two bites into your salad when you got your entree, and you'd then be pissed at us for "rushing" you. Also, if your husband ordered his hamburger medium well and it was served to you well done, it is NOT your server's fault – he or she is not authorized to take a bite of your ugly-a** effeminate husband's cholesterol-filled, artery-hardening, ban-boob-enhancing hamburger to make sure it's cooked to the correct temperature, you f***ing idiot.
2. You are a fat ugly cow who gets pissed when someone DARES make "friendly chit chat" with you at your greeting instead of immediately bringing you a plate of cheese-fries to stuff down your sagging gullet...thus you hate servers because many of them are cute, fit young women who make you jealous when your ugly husband with his hairy man-boobs hits on them.
Bonnie
"yes, servers wait to put in your entree, otherwise, you’d be four bites into your appetizer when your salads came out and two bites into your salad when you got your entree, and you’d then be at us for “rushing” you."
The point is, any delay means why you wait a longer time for your food. I and most everyone would rather be rushed than to wait 45-mins. to an hour for their food and you know it! Especially the people that wait an hour just to get seated and you know it!
Also, some servers wait too long to put in the order!
"Also, if your husband ordered his hamburger medium well and it was served to you well done, it is not your server’s fault – he or she is not authorized to take a bite of your effeminate husband’s cholesterol-filled, artery-hardening, enhancing hamburger to make sure it’s cooked to the correct temperature, you."
It can be if the server puts in the order wrong!!
That's how uneducated you are compared to me and I have never been a server before!
I know more than you do!!
"2. You are a cow"
No, 98 and half pounds this morning(I weight myself everyday.) I am 5'0" tall.
So no, you must be the one that is, aren't you and are just jealous! I am very pretty.
"who gets pissed when someone dares make “friendly chit chat” with you at your greeting instead of immediately bringing you a plate of cheese-fries to stuff down your sagging gullet"
What an inconsiderate person you are that when you are hungry how you feel when you haven't eaten all day. So you would really want a server on purpose to delay you from placing your order? Yeah right!
"thus you hate servers because many of them are cute, fit young women who make you jealous"
I don't hate them. I hate the servers that have lazy actions and their uncaring moves! Not all of them are bad.
Also, my husband loves me. He doesn't worry about other woman.
"(you are truly),"
You are to think that servers can't be at fault for a medium well ordered burger that is well done. You don't know that you very well can put in the order wrong! Were you born under a rock?
You are ridiculous to even mention weight. Weight doesn't matter! The biggest I ever have gotten in my lifetime was 106lbs and that was for about 6 months in 1999. Most of my lifetime I have been under 100lbs.
Bonnie
The point is, any delay means why you wait a longer time for your food. I and most everyone would rather be rushed than to wait 45-mins. to an hour for their food and you know it! Especially the people that wait an hour just to get seated and you know it!
Also, some servers wait too long to put in the order!
It can be if the server puts in the order wrong!!
That's how uneducated you are compared to me and I have never been a server before!
I know more than you do!!
No, 98 and half pounds this morning(I weight myself everyday.) I am 5'0" tall.
So no, you must be the one that is, aren't you and are just jealous! I am very pretty.
What an inconsiderate person you are that when you are hungry how you feel when you haven't eaten all day. So you would really want a server on purpose to delay you from placing your order? Yeah right!
I don't hate them. I hate the servers that have lazy actions and their uncaring moves! Not all of them are bad.
Also, my husband loves me. He doesn't worry about other woman.
You are to think that servers can't be at fault for a medium well ordered burger that is well done. You don't know that you very well can put in the order wrong! Were you born under a rock?
You are ridiculous to even mention weight. Weight doesn't matter! The biggest I ever have gotten in my lifetime was 106lbs and that was for about 6 months in 1999. Most of my lifetime I have been under 100lbs.
My standard practice in this situation is to pay the added gratuity only, however, in cases of exceptional service, I will tip more. There was only one time where the service so bad that our table chose to not pay the tip. At that time we went to the manager, who was more amenable than the folks at this restaurant, and explained why we would not be leaving a tip. We had been getting up and getting our own refills and drinks and our server never once came back to the table to check on us until the bill was brought. This meant that people who had wanted to order a dessert were not afforded the opportunity, nor even the chance, before the bill hit the table. I was a well-known customer and the tip was stripped from the bill. We left two cents on the table.
Bravo Susan! You did what most successful restaurant managers want you to do. Too many people are too cowardly to stick up for themselves because they don't want to appear whine-y. They apparently would prefer to gripe anonymously on a food blog.
I am currently a server at a common Italian chain restaurant. I work hard and efficiently meanwhile keeping a great attitude and persona. The "standard" tip is 20% on the total for food and beverage (doesn't include tax). At the end of the night I give 3% of my SALES (food and beverage total) to pay the bussers, hosts, food runners, and bartenders. I make $3.00/hour on my paycheck. I agree with a previous statement that why don't the restaurants pay the servers directly and eliminate tipping. We don't tip the cashier at the grocery store. I guess there are a lot of variables with that. The food and liquor prices will need to be increased in order to compensate for that. The restaurants just don't make enough to cover it. Tipping has been the restaurant way since someone opened the first restaurant or bar centuries. Get over it, it's not going to change. When I receive a tip that is less than 20%, I know that it has nothing to do with me. This person believes in crappy tipping because he "shouldn't have to tip". It has absolutely nothing to do with my service. To those people if they are reading this post, stay home. Don't go out to eat. You are wasting my time. I spent an hour serving you and got the verbal tip meanwhile I missed out on the table that will give me a true tip.
The standard rate is 15%, not 20%.
Standard tip is absolutely 20% for dinner. 15% is for poor service or lunch. Anything less than 20% is cheap. Servers usually make $2.50-$2.75 an hour. If your server brought your food on time and had a positive attitude, anything less than 20% is you being cheap.
Where did you come up with 20%. It's 15% and it needs to stay at that percentage forever. Yes the cost of living rises, but then so does the food bill and thus a 15% tip will be a lot more than it would have been years ago.
I'm a good tipper and I tip at 15%, possibly more for exceptional service, but don't expect 20% for average service.
Average service is 10-15%. Asking for 20% as standard is ridiculous. I'll go as high as 25% for really good service. I worked as a server and if you're decent you make a killing at those rates. The only people struggling at restaurants are those who are not good at what they do.
I am completely against tipping. Before I get lambasted let it be noted that I have worked for multiple restaurants in every position available. Tipping is by it's nature an unbalanced and biased system which favors people (mainly women) of appeasing features and personality. Not every person has both of those qualities. Indeed it would seem the modern server lacks personality at all. I digress. Tipping has been pounded into our collective heads as mandatory and that not leaving a tip regardless of the lack of service is more deplorable than your poor service. Remove tipping and put servers on minimum wage. Of course by removing tipping you add to the cost of food and drink but the best way to curve that would be to remove the bus boy and have servers clear the tables. Now people will argue that by doing that you leave servers shorthanded. That isn't entirely true. Restaurants individually monitor their sales and traffic and with those numbers can chart and predict how their business will fluctuate and can staff accordingly. Tipping should always be optional and given only as a reward for exceptional service. Filling a glass two to three times and only dropping by long enough to flash a smile, take an order/drop off an order, and leave isn't service it's going through the motions.
Stupid Americans. Bad service = bad tip. I would have sat my ass in jail before paying the tip.
A tip is for doing a good job. In our culture it's been turned into just not screwing up. Fine, I waited tables for a time and I did better knowing there was possibly some extra $$ in it for me. If you're going to mandate tips, then just up your prices and pay your wait staff better.
You can sure bet these folks won't come back after this, you can't hold them hostage they can either press charges or not press charges. The court would determine if the charges should be thrown out, I see some serious legal issues with the restaurant simply for holding them hostage. If the customer was unhappy why not work with them to make the situation better, a discount on the next meal or something, in some cases that can help win the client back. If the customer pulls the same stunt every time ban them from the restaurant. Learn the type of customer, is it a problem customer or just a bad experience, if it's a repeat problem customer tell them to scram and never come back.
Tipping should be based on service and customer experience- NOTHING MORE ! I tip extremely well for great service and not at al for poor service.
bad service does not deserve gratuity period ! IF I have to hunt you down – do not expect a tip – If my meal comes and my drink is not filled up – Don't expect a tip. if I see you once while ordering and not again till the check is dropped off- Don't expect a tip – if you want to make your money without having to PLEASE A CUSTOMER – change careers !
don't cry to me about living off your tip – because no one forced you to work at a service based establishment
Why do you hate realty? Did someone sell you a bad house and Mike Holmes couldn't come to your rescue?
TIPS: To Insure Proper Service. Yes I realize that every dining experience people have is not always going to be immaculate. However the tipping standard was created to encourage giving guests the best possible service, and that reward is the money. It does really suck when as a server you have one table (generally is is a reward for high sales and doing well as a server in the restaurant) that is a larger group and to then have someone pick up the bill who goes into sticker shock or has no concept of tipping in American culture (and we know that foreigners know this policy, it is in all the tour books for the country). I am not saying that I give perfect service to every single table, sometimes I forget things or get distracted, what I am saying is that if you have a table of 12 people that order a 3-4 course meal per person, that is at least 16 trips to a table (minimally). Dropping off food, checking drinks, checking on guest satisfaction, I realize that this does not always happen, all that I am saying is before you decide that your server is not worth the minimal 15% tip consider what it is they have been doing. We do not cook your food, and we cannot make the bartender make your drinks faster. Chances are you are not our only table. Take a look around the restaurant, by all means if you see your server wasting time when you are in need of something, take money off.
You've never worked in the service industry. Most times gratuity is added because large parties tend to skimp on tipping because the bill amount is higher than a date for two. All in all larger groups are harder to handle, especially when you have five other tables on top of the larger party. Most waiters in the service industry are also attending college so please tip! At only 2.15 an hour, I am living off those tips. And if the service is not up to par, tip the bare minimum. Most of all, speak to a manager! Most times they will comp items off of your bill or change the service provided by correcting the staff.
First, I would like the full details of how bad the service was in this case to make a more thought out opinion as all I have to base it from is what is stated in the article. Now if the service was bad enough to request a manager I think that they should have addressed this matter before things escalated to involving police officials. I would rather know that an officer of the law is available and on call for a more severe crime than a civil dispute over a 17% tip on a restaurant bill.
Second, I feel that if the service is poor that an adjustment should be allowed on a case by case situation – why an individual should be forced to encourage bad behavior within staff employees is confusing. The fact that police officials were involved in this particular matter implies a feeling of entitlement and standing behind a policy to cover a lackadaisical attitude for even standard service. As a patron of any business it is best to practice knowing any policies before entering the facility. Be it return policies or other hospitality policies, as a consumer that should be commonplace practice – though I believe a party of 5 is a very low number to include an auto-gratuity to a ticket, however it may be due to this facility being a smaller local restaurant.
Third, the pay for servers varies by restaurant and some do rely on tips to break even so it cannot be stated across the board on what is best unless a base standard is set nationwide. If the tip is split between multiple individuals involved in one customer's ticket then equal tax responsibility claim should be taken by all parties and not left to the server alone to claim 100% responsibility for tip reports and then receiving only a fraction of the actual tip for themselves. If the tip fully goes to the server then their level of responsiveness to the dining experience should gauge the end result of a tip. Now I state this as such due to the fact that it may not always fall on the server for delays or other complications to the experience, but acknowledgement of the situation and actively addressing the patron goes a long way – at least with me. Perhaps the cook is backed up with orders due to a busy night, a polite "I apologize for the delay, let me check on your order" or some type of update means I'm not forgotten and I am not expecting any hand-out or such for an inconvenience. If I'm in too much of a rush I would not go to a dine-in restaurant, I would either cook at home or pick up fast food on the go instead.
Fourth, any tension within the chain of employees due to work grudges need to be left at the door. Trying to single out an individual and make service to patrons of a restaurant only hurts the business and those employed more with bad publicity. I am a patient individual and I am fair and will usually tip over 20% when I notice someone exceeding what I would call general hospitality. As I define general hospitality when dining is this: (For a Host/Hostess) polite, attentive to wait time and informative of a potential delay to begin dining experience, willingness to suggest options to sit at bar during long wait times or other wait options if provided by restaurant policy; (For a Server) polite, attentive to current needs and a willingness to address a situation or problem should one occur; (For a Cook) food cooked properly and to order; (For a Bartender) polite, attentive to current needs, willingness to address a situation or problem should one occur, and drink made to order. Anything beyond this would exceed my expectations. I personally don't know if those that end up clearing the tables get a cut of a tip that’s left, but in addition I do my best to pre-bus my dishware and silverware to speed up the process if it is not removed by my server prior to the end of my dining experience.
Fifth, I think as a patron/consumer there is a responsibility to remember that hospitality/customer service jobs are not easy and often do not pay well for the level of stress the job entails. Before you, the patron, walk into a place to be served whether it be for customer service or hospitality of some type – the individual you may encounter may have already been yelled at, cussed out and so-forth and already in a stressed out state of mind. Not that this gives one carte blanche to be completely rude, but as a patron reaching out a hand or a kind word can make a world of difference and encourage better service.
I am one to stop and take the time to report good service when I see it – I want the restaurant and business owner/corporation to know they're doing well and to keep up the great service. I honestly feel that most times bad service is all that's heard personally by management/owners/corporations within the restaurant business so I make a personal point to report both equally. I cannot even count how many times I have stood before uneasy managers, then seeing relief wash over them, as I engage them to tell them about my wonderful experience and asking if there is an additional comment card or such I can fill out on behalf of their employees. I have found that a few corporations provide personal employee perks for such reviews if I call and leave a message with corporate. I think this method is a good incentive to encourage above average care to patrons, but unfortunately I don't feel it's utilized properly as most consumers will report the bad problems and forget to stop and take the steps to report the good equally.
I'll cite a good and bad experience I dealt with in reference. One bad experience: our hostess seated me and my dining partner quickly and left us to review the menus. We had decided fairly quickly what we would order within minutes and started a conversation while waiting for our server to take our order. It was a semi-busy night so I expected a bit of a wait, but not an hour wait without water even brought to our table. I had to get up and speak with the hostess as no one, not even another server that had seated two other patron groups which ate and left, had inquired as to the length of time we'd been waiting. The hostess was immediately apologetic and told me she'd get the manager right away for me. My dining partner was about ready to just leave seeing as we'd not received anything other than a seat for an hour. Once the manager came over we were told to order anything we wanted and they would cover all charges. They apologized for the lack of service; the waitress did not know that she had been assigned a block of tables on that side of the restaurant which unfortunately caused our current situation to occur. I accepted the apology and convinced my partner to stay and finish the dinner outing we'd set out to do in the first place. Now whether the confusion was a result in the restaurant splitting up a server's table from once side of the room to the other or if there was a mini employee grudge going on to not let them know – it's all speculation, but neither is good for the business. We ordered exactly what we came into order and didn't take advantage of the situation (like I have heard many I've told this experience to stated they would have done) and I left a tip for our new server. It was not their fault and they shouldn't be penalized for being asked to serve our table – I'm sure it was a tense situation for all involved. I didn't receive excellent service at first, but those that addressed the situation did their best to make it right. I wasn't even expecting dinner to be on the restaurant. I left a 20% tip for the value of what I would have normally been charged for all the food ordered for those that served our table at that time.
One good experience: I had a day off from work and decided to have lunch out by myself. I was seated promptly and my server was very good making sure I had everything I needed. I was having a good dining experience until a received a call on my cell requesting me to come in on my day off – that left a bit of a sour note, but it's what my server did without my prompting as I asked for the check that still made it a wonderful day. She'd noticed I was still enjoying my meal and that I had to abruptly ask for the check due to being called into work. It's not normally done, but she made sure to pack me up some additional soup and bread along with handing me my bill so that I could at least take something in with me to work. I thanked her and left a big tip and then sought out the manager before leaving, I think the manager was apprehensive to my approach but relieved to hear one of their employees provided outstanding service. She gave me information to forward my review to their corporate office on behalf of the employee and the restaurant. I'm always pleased to report outstanding service that's unprompted – I want that kind of behavior encouraged. I wasn't expecting that, but the fact that she took the time to show a little extra care meant more to me than the fact that I now had lunch for work instead of trying to scramble for something later on in the day – the portion she packed up was even enough to split up for dinner later when my night shift ended.
when it comes right down to it, a tip is an extra. Always has been. You get paid for doing your job, and you get tipped for doing it very well. If you are in this industry you should be well aware that there are cheap Aholes out there. The majority aren't like that. I won't hesitate to withhold a tip for crappy service. I'll also explain to my server why I'm not tipping. I have found the best way to avoid crappy service is to upgrade the quality of the restaurants you go to. Most servers at these places know they can make damn good money from tips with some effort, and it shows. As someone else pointed out, I think it really is a culture of entitlement here. Last time I was in Spain, me and a couple friends stopped off in a bar for a few beer. The service was exceptional. We left a rather hefty tip to show our gratitude and spent the next 30 mins, shaking hands, drinking free drinks and chatting with the owner and his wife. Apparently they don't tip over there, and had a real hard time trying to understand why we give extra money to someone for doing thier job.
Have you never worked as a server? Most servers make only 3-3.50 an hour. Servers rely on their tips. If you go out to eat, and you have someone waiting on you, you should tip. If you get poor service, tip accordingly.
For most servers the tips are part of their pay. When I was in college I worked as a server and at the time minimum wage for a server was $2.85/hour. By law I was required to claim 8% of my pre-tax sales as wages. After taxes were taken out, I would be lucky if that $2.85/hour resulted in a $20 paycheck.
I think most current and former servers are with me in that I am a generous tipper for good service. However, if I have bad service I make sure to leave at least an 8% tip. This makes sure that the server is fairly compensated.
Bad service 2 cents
Why can't restaurants just pay their employees? Like any other business does? I don't go to the grocery store and tip the checker contribute to their salary?
Speaking as a server, I make 3.35 an hour from my restaurant. That will just about cover taxes and not much else. Servers/bussers/hostess/bartenders work for tips so if they get stiffed on a big table, and that was their only table that evening. They are likely walking out that evening having "volunteered" their time.
That's the risk you take. I was in hospitality for years, and my wife is a bartender, but this is exactly why I got out of the business. It doesn't make sense to rely on the kindness of (generally unkind) strangers to earn your living. You all get addicted to the lifestyle because it's fast cash and you can stay out late, but eventually you get up one morning and start wondering why you went to college. Save yourself!
I worked for 25 years as a server, many of them at IHOP, and I was the very best at what I did. While I think that there HAS to be an option when you get bad service, I'm so tired of customers saying that they don't tip on principal. Americansd KNOW that tipping is part of the deal when you get table service, if you don't like it eat at Mcdonalds. There is nothing like the feeling of working a 10 hour Christmas day and coming home with $40 because people at IHOP on a holiday are generally lonely and pissed off about it so they take it out on a server. Or try giving all you have to a party of 15 (or more) for 2 hours and getting $4 – it happens all the time. Do customers even know that your server is taxed on every table they wait on by the IRS?? So, basically, servers PAY to wait on deadbeats. You tell us not to complain because it's a job we chose? Well, you knew the deal before you ever walked into that restaurant so WHY are YOU complaining – YOU chose to eat there didn't you? I always thought it was funny that the rudest and cheapest crowd to wait on is ALWAYS the Sunday morning church goers – ALWAYS. So, don't worry about that single mother you just stiffed on principle (even though the govt just taxed her $3 for waiting on your sorry self) maybe the next table will be decent people who hold up their end of the 'restaurant service' deal. That waitress takes a little heart in knowing karma will get you.
Tipping is a right of choice, a reward for good service. Not a legally mandated action. If the service is bad, you should not have to tip. If it is good, then you reward the server. Tipping wages such as $3.35 hr mentioned in the comments are the base wage that the employer must pay, then the remainder up to the mimimum wage can be paid out of tips. If the server does not make enough tips ontop of the $3.35hr to equal whatever the minimum wage is, then the employer pays the difference. If you are running a good operation, serving a good product and have properly trained your servers, you the employer will never have to pay above the tip wage, and the server will make good tips taking them well over the minimum wage rate. Plus most restaurant operators will only report enough tips to take the server up to the minimum wage hourly rate, and not report whatever tips the server made above that.
A little FYI for you – Restaurants DO NOT make up the difference if you didn't equal out to minimum wage, I can't imagine where you got that idea. Also, in times part YES servers didn't report every dime but those days have been over for some time now, everything is done on computers and automatically deducted even if you don't get a tip from that table, the govt says you did and the server pays a tax on you. Isn't that great? We pay for you whether or not you tip. Man up or go to a fast food joint.
One big point seems to be overlooked in these situations: I AM NOT THE WAITPERSON'S EMPLOYER. I dine out often and tip generously, especially if I get good service, so I'm not complaining about tipping in general. However, I would never expect my companies' clients to pay my employees' salaries directly to them. Our clients would laugh me out of business. So if I am required to pay a waitperson's salary, do I then get to decide how many vacation days they get? What their work schedule should be? Can I fire them if they have a lousy attitude? Because aren't most of us employed by the person or company who pays our wages or salaries? The whole situation is ridiculous, and much of it comes from the entitled attitudes of both diners and servers and the greedy restaurants that feed and employ them.
He probably got it off of every federal labor law poster posted in every place of employment. "An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equals at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference." CNN won't let me post links, but hit up the Department of Labor website and do a quick search.
Maybe not all states are the same, but in MA it is the LAW that if a server's claimed tips plus the wages they are paid by the employer to not equal minimum wage, then the employer is MANDATED to make up the difference, or they risk being fined.
Also, it is common knowledge that servers do not always claim all of the tips they make...tips left on credit cards that are processed through a computerized register system MUST be claimed, because Uncle Sam knows you made those tips. However, cash tips are often not claimed...how does the government know that you made x amount of dollars off that table? It could have been one of you cheap patrons who don't believe in tipping, so how can anyone know what that income is? Get a clue Mrs. Mills...
Your facts are not accurate in all states. Restaurants are allowed to pay $0.00 to their servers. Here's how it works:
If a server makes tips covering the, 7.25 per hr minimum wage (in NC), then they get no paycheck. Per federal law, the minimum they must be paid is $2.13 an hour, if they don't make enough to cover number of hours worked times 7.25. Of course, if you can't make the 7.25 in tips, you will probably be fired. Restaurants do not seem to be in business to pay their servers. The server's pay in many states depends entirely on the service tip (which is sometimes shared with other staff employees, such as bar tender, hostess, etc.). If you don't want to tip, don't go out to eat or work to change the laws so restaurants must pay their employees, rather than depend on tips to do so. I know many servers who work hard for their living and don't deserve to be stiffed because you (the customer) doesn't "believe" in tipping.
get a union
You are working at the wrong restaurants. I waited tables for many years and was paid any difference up to the minimum wage if I did not receive enough in tips. What bothers me most as a consumer, is the percentage amount, as someone else stated, it takes the same amount of work whether you work at Dennys or at an high end restaurant. However at Dennys 15% of your total might be $1.87, which at an high end place it might be $11.25. Did the server really do that much more work? Last time I checked 15% was still the standard. Also, if my party of 5 takes 1 hour and the meal was $150, the expected tip at 17% would be $25.50 – that's more than most people in professional jobs make per hour – unreal.
There should be no question at all, I will tip you if I received good service, if not, I will tip you 5% instead of 15, 18, or 20%. It's up to you to earn that tips, period.
The employees of the restaurant may have a far more serious problem than a hassle over a tip. Locking the customers inside the restaurant meets the legal definition of “unlawful imprisonment”, which is a felony.
Amen to that. Who's great idea was it to lock them in and why did'nt the cop let them in on that.
There's a reason why it's called a "gratuity"–it's to show gratitude for gracious & competent service received. If the service is up to standard, the usual tip should be 15-20% of the bill. If I am a regular and receive exceptional service or have to ask for special favors, I will usually tip more.
I have noticed however, that service is definitely not what it used to be and some food servers, bartenders, taxi drivers, etc. can be downright rude and hostile toward their customers. When that is the case, I usually tip a lot less than normal & on rare occasions not at all. I also usually ask to speak to the manager and I explain what happened so that it can be corrected.
I used to work in the service industry myself and I've had all kinds of situations. I've gotten good tips for giving good service, bad tips for good service...I have even gotten wonderful tips when I knew my service was sub-par because I made a mistake or I was just too busy to attend my guests in a way that I should have. In the end, if you just stay focused and stay positive about your job, you'll end up doing pretty well.
Locking someone inside a restaurant and shaking them down for a tip is just crazy. It's unprofessional and brings bad PR to your place of business.
I am loving the servers here ( current or former ) who insist it is the customers' faults for leaving bad tips, then expect us to believe that they are constantly providing immaculate service all the time.....and then go on to insult people on this thread. That great attitude you are demonstrating to what essentially may be your customers may also be reflective of why you receive poor tips. Again, even at Dennys, when waiters and waitresses joke around with us and for the most part refill sodas on time, we will leave tips even up to 75% of the bill, no problem. However, I have no problem leaving a poor tip if I get a poor attitude. I am genuinely a nice guy, and if I ask if I can substitute something for onions, and get a smirk, snub, or even a wisea@@ remark, you can be sure I just kept a mental tally of how your tip just went down.
But remember, according to a lot of people on this thread, that was my fault for asking a question. Darn me....for asking that question, I owe that server a %100 tip.
7 poll choices, and you couldn't include one for "Yes, but I'm not paying it if the service stinks?"
These people were well within their rights not to pay a gratuity for terrible service, and the restaurant staff who locked them in should be charged with illegal restraint.
There was a choice of "Other" that asked that you to "please share below." You can't expect a poll to offer all permutations of choices. Even you aren't perfect.
No, I was a server in college, and I generally made more than fair tips, especially considering the fact that I wasn't very good at my job when things got really slammed. (Ironically, the only time I EVER got completely stiffed on a tip, I had provided impeccable service! LoL.) I will admit it – I wasn't a very great waitress, but I wasn't the worst, and I was always smiling and friendly. I think that most people – people like you – are easy to serve. Keep drinks refilled, handle any issues, get the order turned in at the right time, etc. But unfortunately, everyone has a horror story, and it's because there ARE a lot of people out there who are NOT like you: people like the woman down the thread who refuses to tip if a server brings her a refill (on SOFT DRINKS, mind you...she specified this) without asking first because she thinks it's "overstepping their bounds to order FOR ME – MY MONEY RULES THEM, THEY DO NOT PRESUME TO KNOW WHAT I WANT TO DRINK EACH TIME I WANT A REFILL!" Then there's the stupid c**t that didn't tip because her waiter DARED to greet them with "friendly chit-chat." "Hey, my name is Austin, I'll be taking care of you..." and then, to her horror, he said, "How are you guys enjoying Mardi Gras? Did you see any of the parade?" instead of IMMEDIATELY taking their order.
Fact is, there are just too many people that you can not win with. Also, people expect their servers to be mind readers. If you and your wife are at my table, I'll get your order in a reasonable time frame, try not to interrupt your conversation every four minutes but still be attentive and check in with you from time to time, and turn in your orders/bring your food based on a standard "date night" time frame of about an hour and a half or so – but I'll keep my feelers out so I don't rush you, because nobody likes to be rushed. If you and your wife are due to see a movie in an hour and would like me to put your entree orders in right away and bring your check wit the food, TELL ME!! You seem like the kind of guy who gets that, but unfortunately, SO MANY PEOPLE will sit there silently and then refuse to tip and complain to the manager that I took too long and made them late to their movie.
And lastly, many people tend to treat servers like they are some sort of low-class degenerates. I was waiting tables to pay for college, not because I was a hard-partying druggy who didn't want to get a "real job."
I totally understand where you're coming from, and I don't totally disagree with you...just kind of "knock knocking" to remind you that not everyone is a logical, level-headed, even-keeled, reasonable, rational, NORMAL human being like you and I. ;-)
If you received service you have to pay for it even if you hated the service. It's like eating the whole damn hamburger and then trying to say you hated it so you don't have to pay the bill. Skipping the gratuity might not be theft legally, but that is essentially what it is. You are stealing the service that was provided to you.
You're just saying that because it's what you do for a living. You probably give good service to your customers. But you have to know there are servers out there with a misplaced sense of enti tlment who don't do their jobs and don't deserve a full 20% tip.
How can you possibly justify not paying a tip as stealing? A tip is something optional that a customer gives a server out of gratuity for serving them. If it were stealing it would be a fixed price that was included in the meal and NOT listed as a tip. Am I wrong or is the entire point of a tip to pay for what level of service you feel you received?
Get rid of the tipping system and just raise the price of the meal or something. There is no real difference. It is NOT illegal to not tip-sue for false arrest affidavit if they want to prosecute and you WILL win. If tipping is to become 'mandatory' then what is the point other than a marketing gimmick to give the perception of lower food prices?
There are great servers out there. And I will tip well for great service that I think is above and beyond the expected. However there is awful service that I feel isn't warranted. Why should I give a server 15-20% of my meal price for simply handing me a menu, stating their name and disappearing until time for the check? No thanks. I'm not giving you anything because you didn't deserve it. And yes, I saw you standing behind the wall texting instead of noticing me trying to wave at you since we hadn't been bothered with a drink refill request for about 40 minutes!
Jay,
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, there certain groups of people that expect anything and everything that is not nailed down, and leave a $5.00 tip for a party of 10. That stinks, I know I used to be a Server for almost 20 years. On the flip side, there are plenty of Servers who don't deserve a tip. They are either yakking with fellow Servers, text or just plain don't do their job. I liked what I did, so 95% the time I received a proper, or great tip. I do not believe that tipping should be mandatory. In Europe, the tip is included in the price of the meal, and the owner still makes money. In this Country, everybody expects a tip, which I think is bull.
Not every country requires or expects tips. In Japan, it is an honor to provide excellent service. Tipping is almost offensive, as if the server would not have done their best unless you bribed them. Restaurants also have the option of wrapping the cost of 'service' into their operational costs...that way, their employees are guaranteed their pay. But, if you want to gamble with both the generosity of your patrons and the excellence of your service, you risk being unhappy with the results. On another note, a party of 5 being a "large" party is simply ridiculous. I would love to hear the local police department's official stance on the case. Detaining the diners for not paying the bill is one thing. But for not tipping sufficiently? Rather subjective.
I have worked in the Service industry for over 12 years, I work in a restaurant that does NOT apply an automatic gratuity to any bill unless it is over a 20 person booking.. An average meal/drink in my store will run a person around $15. I recently served a table of 31 people, The manager setting up the set menu ($10 per person for a drink and meal) forgot to include a gratuity. Another server and i worked the table for almost 2 hours (filled both out sections) The table was Extremely happy with the service and the speed of the kitchen.. The total bill (before tax) was $310.00 The person paying left a $5 tip.
So in my opinion Yes (if the service is good) A mandatory tip of at least 15% should be added to any large table. And to be completely honest, If it weren't for the tips that i make, I would not continue as a server, It simply is not enough to live on $9/hour when Rent alone is $800/month (you do the math)
I would not blame you for quitting job if your employer did not give you something extra to make up for that party's poor tip. I live in NYC, rent here is 1500 and up, severs do not get state mandated min. wage, just tips. So servers should perform well no matter what they expect to receive at the end because until they receive it, they have no idea what will be left. Many waiters believe in stereotypes which affect their service and create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Read some of the posts below yours and you will see that everyone server claims that they are the best which is statistically impossible. Some were brave enough to admit that they discriminate.
waiters and waitesses are paid MUCH below minimum wage. tipping is supposed to supplement that and that's why they can get buy paying them so low.
do you expect people to be slave laborers for you? either they should get mimum wage or tipping needs to be required, you can't expect people to serve you for free.
unless you want the cost of the food at restarants to skyrocket so that you can pay for a mimimum wage for these workers.
I fail to see the difference between tips being included in the cost of the meal or not. If I order a steak which costs $50 without tip included and then tip 20% that is the same as ordering a steak that costs $60 with tip included. The math is the same.
In Texas the law states that restaurants cannot collect gratuities. While restaurants can impose a gratuity for large groups they have no legal standing to collect. I have found that some waiters/waitresses don't provide service in these situations because they believe that they will receive a gratuity regardless. In the cases where my waiter brought my party's food and was never seen again I have not left a gratuity, luckily each time I talked with the manager they were aware of the law and I had no troubles.
If they were informed before the meal and went ahead with the meal the restaurant has grounds to demand the tip because there was an understood agreement. I would press charges against the restaurant for kidnapping for locking me in. They, in essence, detained the group without any lawful right. I think the staff of the restaurant should be arrested.
Locking someone in a resturant against thier will is kiddnaping.With a good lawyer they will own that resturant and they can do things like they want
If you saw Inside Edition they could have gone out the back.
http://www.insideedition.com/news/8148/woman-says-restaurant-held-her-hostage-over-a-tip.aspx
They technically couldn't though. The back door is for employee use only and to get to it you would have to go through the kitchen and legally customers are not supposed to go back there.
Technicality schmechnicality. If they're holding me against my will, they can shove their customary practices. I'm walking thru their kitchen, thru their employee only door and I'm GTFO – straight to the cops to file kidnapping charges.
It was smart of them to not look for other exists. Now they can claim that they thought they were being falsely imprisoned and thats all that matters to the jury; what THEIR perception was and not whether or not they could climb out a window or backdoor.
It's not a defense for the restaurant to say "they could have used the fire door, jumped out a window, etc." The intent to unjustifiably, and possibly unlawfully, detain this group was clear by them obstructing the main door of egress.
As I said in an earlier post, if you are the owner or manager of a business, unless you or your staff have police or professional security training, it is better to allow a party in a dispute to leave, and then call the police and/or file a civil or criminal complaint against them, as opposed to excessively confronting or physically detaining them. On one hand, it is for your own protection, because you do not want a bad situation to escalate to the point where you truly need law enforcement intervention. Also, the legal liability to your business can be significant if you run afoul of civil and criminal guidelines regarding false imprisonment, harassment, and assault.
If one is trained as a police officer or has gone through competent security guard training, that is a different issue, as they would likely know their rights and responsibilities under the law.
It's not kidnapping. It is false imprisonment. The difference is that kidnapping requires an aggravating factor, such as forcibly moving the person to an alternate location against their will.
I always tip more than 18% for good service. If the restaraunt autotips, I never add more to it. I figure that is the cost to the server for being guaranteed a set amount, no matter what kind of service they give.. They make sure they get "something" and since I lose the abiltiy to determine what they deserve, they do not deserve any more than that. It's a cheater's game so that's all they get. Fair enough.
If your server is serving a large party, they deserve a tip. You should NOT tip less than you would have otherwise tipped just because they have protected themselves by autogratting you. They are simply trying to ensure that they don't get screwed. They DO NOT KNOW YOU, and thus they have no choice to protect themselves because MANY parties will tip a paltry 10%, 5% or even 0%. It is wrong to punish the server for protecting themselves from having to WORK FOR FREE, which is essentially what happens if people don't tip. The $2.15 per hour servers typically make goes mostly towards taxes.
Pretty much anyone who disagrees with this has NO CLUE what it's like to have their income be dependent on how nice someone is willing to be.
I think a tip on a large party should be a lesser percentage than that on a small party. A 20% tip on a $30 bill is a lot less than a 10% tip on a $300 bill.
even though the sever is waiting on more people and thus is working harder?
I disagree with Dan. Tipping is not a right, but is earned. I've had sucky service, complained to the management and was not given any satisfaction – I left 2 cents – a known insult. I have also walked out for being mistreated. I've also tipped well when a whole glass of tea was spilled down my back. They were apologetic, sincere and service was otherwise excellent. If I'm in a party and given cruddy service, I would not tip. Let them call the cops – I'll make such a scene that others will never come back. I may end of up paying the tip, but the restaurant will always lose in the end. Word of mouth is a life and death to a restaurant.
At least you guys get a choice. Over here in Singapore, mandatory pre-tax autograts of 10% are 99.99% present in restaurant bills, whether or not the server has done a good job. On a bad service, I still have to pay, but I make it a point to let the server know "you don't deserve this."
I would pay it if the service was good, otherwise I would leave a smaller tip or none at all.
I don't like autotips because that is normally when u get the worse service!
TIP = To Insure Promptness. If the restaurant does not live up to this, then no tip should be required. A guaranteed tip does not encourage good service.
having been a a waiter, and owner of a food establishment for many years, I am against auto-tipping. I have a very simple policy I live by in this regard. I goto a restaurant and do not eat at home to be served. The cost of paying the wait staff while going out is included in the higher food cost of going out. My tipping meter starts AFTER I get my food.
When I goto a place to eat, I cannot go into the kitchen myself and get my food. it is simply part of it. Tipping starts after I have my food at the table.
I am a person who drinks a lot when out. I always start at a 10% tip. 5% for each refill without being asked. if my drink is refilled 2x, that means my server was paying attention to me, and they deserve a something extra. I live in California, and I feel that for the most part, this is accomplished and i almost always tip 20%.
that being said, if the server is not attentive, or just downright rude, or terrible service, i do not feel bad about not tipping at all. a tip is something extra for great service, AFTER i have got my food.
when i have amazing service, I always will tell the manager how great my server was. the same with terrible service. I believe like most things in life it goes both ways.
anyway, in closing. tipping should in NO WAY be mandatory, its extra for extra special service, not to pay the living wage. that is the employers responsibility. I always pay all of my employees more than minimum wage, and the cost is reflected in my food pricing.
just my 2c from an every day eat outer.
"My tipping meter starts AFTER I get my food."
Why is it not starting from the moment you sit down? Waiting 10-15 minutes to get greeted is a good reason already to lower the tip from 20%.
"5% for each refill without being asked."
If you want that type of MIND READER service you should *ASK* for it at the GREETING "Can I please get refills without being asked throughout my service?"
I count OFF tip points when servers do this, especially when send them back switching drinks up that I want something else.
No server should be ruling my service but *ME* since they want *MY* money, NOT the other way around.
WHY do you want a mind reader in your service? Most servers don't give refills without being asked or asking, so WHY don't you just SPEAK UP to let your server know you want that, huh?
To me, it's OVERSTEPPING to ORDER for me my next drink. I have switched from dr. pepper to coke to iced tea. My husband has switched after 2 diet cokes to water and once he switched from a cup of coffee to a diet coke. Customers may want something different so WHY should a server RISKS WASTING TIME if they don't know, huh?
If you want that type of service, you should TELL your server this. When you place your order, you are ordering *ONE* GLASS of whatever it, NOT refills of the SAME EXACT ITEM. Soft drinks, tea, and water all are free refillable drinks that the customer can switch to. Also, the customer may decide to get a bar drink instead.
I HATE customers that want a MIND READER in their service. NOT EVERYONE WANTS THIS TYPE OF CONTROL FREAK SERVICE!! I DON"T WANT SERVERS TO CONTROL MY ORDERING PROCESS!!
Springs, you're obviously ok with tipping for bad service, but most people expect good service and will tip well for it. I good server will know what's expected of them and mind reading has nothing to do with it. A good server will ask questions and stop by the tables they are serving to see how the diner is doing. Drink refills, these days, are an expected part of this service and when stopping by a table the server will ask about refills. A good server will have a smile and will do their best to give the people they are serving an enjoyable experience. This is not magic or mind reading. Like I said before, it's obvious that you enjoy bad service, but most diners do not.
James K.
"mind reading has nothing to do with it."
It does. If I order a coke, that doesn't mean don't *ASK ME* if I want another coke and just bring it without *MY* CONSENT that you *ORDERED* for me.
"Drink refills, these days, are an expected part of this service and when stopping by a table the server will ask about refills"
I want my server to ask you IDIOT. You OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T *READ* did you?
"mind reading."
It *IS* if you are ORDERING for your customers. If I order a coke, that doesn't mean I want another coke. *ASK* MY PERMISSION FIRST. I have SENT servers back before and they didn't even say they were sorry for "ASSUMING(TRYING TO READ MY MIND), WRONG* even. All I did was say "Can I get a coke instead"(I ordered a dr. pepper originally).
Springs1- you're silly. I just clocked out not 15 minutes ago from my job WAITING TABLES. Tonight I waited on the same group of ladies I do EVERY thursday night (and they had an "autograt" of over 95$). I refill their drinks without asking, and they appreciate it. There have been times when they didn't touch the refill, but they still appreciated the attentiveness. They are sweet, and compensate me above the 18% gratuity. Also- "switching" beverages means that there are no FREE REFILLS! If you switch from DP to Diet coke to coffee, you'll be charged for every individual drink. You're server is being kind to refill your drinks for free instead of building up their check average with all of your new drinks. and the whole "they don't even say they're sorry when I send them away with the courteous refill" nonsense... yeah lady- cuz their too busy spitting in your new one. Douche.
David
"Springs1- you're silly."
HOW when it's *NOT* YOUR MONEY TO RULE US?
"Tonight I waited on the same group of ladies I do EVERY thursday night (and they had an "autograt" of over 95$). I refill their drinks without asking, and they appreciate it"
That's what THEY PREFER, NOT WHAT EVERYONE LIKES IDIOT. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT SO YOU SHOULD SERVE IN THAT MANNER!!
"There have been times when they didn't touch the refill, but they still appreciated the attentiveness."
NO ONE WANTS THEIR TIME WASTED AND YOU SHOULDN'T BE WASTING YOUR TIME EITHER! You don't realize you just costs OTHER CUSTOMERS TIME wasted by you wasting time getting unwanted items IDIOT!!
WHO DOES SOMETHING FOR NOTHING?
"They are sweet, and compensate me above the 18% gratuity."
Well that's what THEY personally wanted. SO WHAT!! NOT EVERYONE WANTS THAT!! QUIT BEING A CONTROL FREAK SERVER! YOU GET US WHAT *WE* WANT AT OUR MERCY, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. YOU WANT OUR MONEY, YOU DO IT OUR WAY, NOT YOURS!!
" Also- "switching" beverages means that there are no FREE REFILLS!"
NO, it DOES since you get refills on "FOUNTAIN DRINKS" DUMMY. NO MENU STATES YOU HAVE TO STAY WITH THE SAME FLAVOR!
"If you switch from DP to Diet coke to coffee, you'll be charged for every individual drink."
NO, you get charged for the HIGHER ONE, because both are free refillable beverages. We didn't get charged when one time my husband ordered a coffee, then he switched to diet coke, he only got charged for the coffee(should have been charged the diet coke price).
" You're server is being kind to refill your drinks for free instead of building up their check average with all of your new drinks"
WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? NOBODY HAS CHARGED ME AND I DO THIS AT EVERY RESTAURANT OUT THERE. YOU CANNOT LEGALLY CHARGE ME, because it's a FREE REFILLABLE DRINK and soft drinks & tea ARE THE SAME PRICE! I have switched 3 times and only got charged for one! NOWHERE DOES IT STATE ON THE MENU YOU HAVE TO STICK WITH THE SAME SOFT DRINK OR TEA TO GET THAT REFILL!
" and the whole "they don't even say they're sorry when I send them away with the courteous refill" nonsense... yeah lady- cuz their too busy spitting in your new one."
What A MEAN PERSON ARE! You are supposed to say you are sorry if you are getting something wrong! YOU ARE A MEAN PERSON, YOU REALLY ARE! QUIT TRYING TO READ MINDS!
You are exactly the type of person every server hates to wait on. Ordering three different beverages in a single sitting is ridiculous ( I would understand if they were three different alcoholic beverages). It seems like you are intentionally being difficult. Stay home, waiting on you is like pulling teeth and we don't want your crappy tip anyways.
indymrs
"You are exactly the type of person every server hates to wait on. Ordering three different beverages in a single sitting is ridiculous ( I would understand if they were three different alcoholic beverages). It seems like you are intentionally being difficult. Stay home, waiting on you is like pulling teeth and we don't want your crappy tip anyways."
NO, if you are THAT LAZY then you need to get another job!
WHY should I cater to making YOU happy when you want MY MONEY LAZY? YOU ARE RIDICULOUS. I can change up if I want to. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT ******I************* want for **********MY********* MONEY THAT I AM PAYING YOU FOR THE SERVICE YOU ARE PROVIDING ME, HUH? CONTROL FREAK!
One more thing:
"You are exactly the type of person every server hates to wait on."
It's not more work if I want coke vs. dr. pepper. You are coming to ask me what I want ANYWAYS!! I don't get WHY you are so BOTHERED BY IT? It takes the same work. The only thing I can see is that you get refills without asking permission because you are too LAZY to come to the table to ask first. Why don't you just ask at the GREETING if customers want that and then they won't send you back? THAT WOULD BE SMART, don't ya think? I don't have to tell you don't order for me, because you aren't supposed to be doing that and you know it.
It's not more work just because I switch up and if you don't want to work HARD, may I suggest you find another line of work LAZY?
Another thing:
indymrs
"You are exactly the type of person every server hates to wait on. Ordering three different beverages in a single sitting is ridiculous ( I would understand if they were three different alcoholic beverages)."
If *YOU* were PAYING US, then you could tell us how to order, but you want *OUR* money so it's not up to you, it's up to *US* customers to RULE YOU. YOU DON'T GET TO RULE US!! WE ARE THE RULERS OF OUR DINING EXPERIENCE. EVERY SINGLE STEP IS RULED BY OUR MONEY, NOT BY YOU SINCE YOU AREN'T PAYING US TO DO ANYTHING!!
OUR MONEY RULES YOU!!
Alcoholic beverages aren't *ANY* different than switching soft drinks. I don't get WHY you feel be different for the customer's money, huh? Just because the refills are for free for soft drinks and tea doesn't mean that the "SERVICE" is being paid any differently? We are still tipping you based on the refills. If refills are what *WE* want and how long it takes to get refills. If you want to provide refills without asking, you should ask the customer's PERMISSION first. It's *NOT* YOUR MONEY to decide what we want. It's OURS!!
WHY does it bother you if someone would switch? It's not going to take any longer to get me a coke vs. a dr. pepper. It's the SAME AMOUNT OF WORK, THE SAME EFFORT!
WE AREN'T THERE FOR YOU!! YOU ARE THERE FOR US, UNDERSTAND? You want our money, so you are at OUR MERCY of EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DETAIL WE WANT IN OUR SERVICE.
I think it's ridiculous you are SO LAZY that you are BOTHERED BY THIS and the fact that it's NO MORE WORK if you come to ask us. WHY is it "RIDICULOUS" to want what **********YOU************ want for *************YOUR************* MONEY, HUH? It's not ridiculous. I think you are ridiculous to think that you shouldn't ***********EARN*********** YOUR MONEY. You aren't there to just stand and look pretty. You are there to satisfy *US* so we can pay you a nice big tip. We are not there to make your life easier. I do actually stack up my dishes all the time to get them out the way, because I am not lazy like you are. I do that for us mostly and our server as well, but I cannot go into the soda station or kitchen to get our own refills. If we could get our own, we wouldn't be tipping much, so YES, even if it's free the refills, it DOES MAJORLY COUNT in the service just because it doesn't show up on our bill.
Customer service is that "CUSTOMER SERVICE", NOT what satisfies the server!! I am not there to please you. YOU ARE THERE TO GET ME WHAT *I* WANT!! If you are that lazy, you really should consider getting another type of job.
Jeez man, you are all over the place with your comments. Im not sure you even know the points you are making. tone it down a bit. be civil. this is supposed to be a discussion about the way people view things. whats with all the anger?
John
"whats with all the anger?"
The fact that people want to RULE your service rather than it be *YOUR* CHOICE. The fact that they don't understand most issues are caused by your SERVER that you have in your service that goes wrong.
As a customer, it should be "MY" choice to say I want a refill or not. It shouldn't be ruled by the server or management what *I* want for "MY" money that I am paying my server for. It's MY CHOICE of if I want something to drink or what drink it is I want. Some servers seem too LAZY to do the job. How can anyone be a "CARING" server that says that it's ridiculous to switch free refillable drinks 3 times? That's NOT CARING, that's PURE LAZINESS AND BEING VERY UNCARING about pleasing the customer. The servers don't understand they have to PLEASE US IN ORDER FOR THEM TO BE PLEASED BACK IN THE TIP. It's a give and take process. All most want to do is take, not give.
I personally appreciate having a drink brought to me before I ask for it, for me, it is what I expect from a good server. it is not a waste of time, and much more often than not, i drink it. i almost always leave a generous tip. without this attention I leave less.
just my opinion, but it seems to be shared by many here. servers and customers alike. I agree, the waiter is there to server the customer. what I am stating is that for me, having my drink refilled without asking me when it is low is what I expect, if I need a new drink, i do not hesitate to ask for a new variety.
John
"I personally appreciate having a drink brought to me before I ask for it, for me, it is what I expect from a good server"
But that's what *YOU* want so you should *ASK* for what you want since MOST servers TRULY DON'T DO THIS as far as what we have experienced over the 12yrs we have been going out to eat just about every single weekend 2-3 times a weekend at times even.
If you want it so badly, *YOU* request to get refills without asking.
"it is not a waste of time, and much more often than not, i drink it."
That's because you want it that your time isn't wasted for me sometimes it is. Even if it didn't waste time like if they predicted correctly, I still hate the fact that the CONTROLLED my dining experience when it's *NOT* their right!
So what if you drink it, you want it!! Not everyone does.
"i almost always leave a generous tip. without this attention I leave less."
Why not just *TELL* your server what you want then? I don't have to tell my server not to "ORDER" for me, because it's COMMON SENSE you don't get to ORDER FOR ME, I AM THE CUSTOMER, I RULE YOU, YOU DON'T RULE ME!!
"just my opinion, but it seems to be shared by many here. servers and customers alike."
It doesn't matter HOW MANY people agree, because service should be 100% ON ************INDIVIDUALITY NOT EVER, EVER, EVER MAJORITY, because they are getting an individual tip from each customer and NOT ALL customers want the same things.
" I agree, the waiter is there to server the customer. what I am stating is that for me, having my drink refilled without asking me when it is low is what I expect, if I need a new drink, i do not hesitate to ask for a new variety.""
If you expect it, you want a MIND READER. WHY? WHY EXPECT SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T ORDER, HUH? ORDER THAT WAY IF YOU WANT IT THAT WAY!! I know when I want a glass of water for example, I ********ORDER******** IT. I don't think my server is going to magically know I want water with a bar drink for example. WHY you EXPECT IT when you didn't *TELL* your server you wanted it that way, huh? Especially when most servers don't do this and EVERYONE DOESN'T LIKE THIS. SOME PEOPLE DON'T LIKE IT, SO WHY WOULD ANYBODY BE STUPID ENOUGH TO WASTE THEIR TIME GETTING AN UNWANTED ITEM, HUH? Those servers are stupid to RISKS WASTING TIME.
If you don't want a "mind reader" serving you, then don't sit there and expect them to know without you saying that you would prefer to be asked before each refill, you f**ktard. MOST people do not wish to have their conversation interrupted every time the waiter or waitress sees a half-empty beverage – they want their server to quietly bring them a fresh soft drink and to remove the empty glass.
You are an idiot – SO much an idiot. I can't believe people like you actually exist.
Well, John good for you for paying more than minimum wage.. But sorry, every other restaurant does not. What they are paid is not enough to live on w/o tips. It's just not. It sickens me here in the south how cheap people are, saying a tip is never necessary and that those people waiting on me just better be happy they have a job at all. We seriously have to treat our servers better, people!
If they put that they are going to charge the fee to large parties right in the menu, it's on the customer for staying after they saw that.
Personally, I don't like that, but it's their business and right.
Would you also pay for food that was disgusting? You ordered it so you should pay for it right? Wrong! You pay for food that is tasty not disgusting the same for mandatory tipping. If there was no service then don't pay for it.
I, personally, have to good sense to see if a place has mandatory tipping before I sit down and start ordering. Being too lazy or shy to ask to see a menu before you request a table is on the consumer.
Again, I don't agree with the policy, but no one is forcing anyone to eat at restaurants that have mandatory tipping. If the service is really so bad that you don't want to tip, why stay for a whole meal? Why not get up and leave? I've cancelled my order and left because of bad service before, and back before I made my little rule for myself, I tipped on top of the mandatory tip when receiving excellent service.
You missed my pint entirely. The questions is: Would you pay for food that you thought was disgusting? If no, why cannot the same logic be applied to a mandatory tip, if said service was not received.
I didn't miss the point. I just won't legitimize your victim mentality.
By ordering from a menu that says gratuity will be added automatically, you're agreeing to those terms. It's like going to a Mexican restaurant and feeling bullied because they only offer Mexican food. Grow up, get over yourself, and accept responsibility for your own choices.
Absolute nonsense. This story is an exception. If you tell the manager that you had poor service, they will not only take off the gratuity, but reprimand the server (taking away shifts, not letting them take the more lucrative parties next time, et cetera). Once I had a guest ask to have my gratuity removed, and I freaked. LAter I found out he wanted to leave me a 50% tip (phew). Stop being silly.
I'm pretty suprised there are people that don't tip 20% as the norm.
Unless there was something particularly off about the service, I think that if you can afford to eat out you can afford to pay what's fair. And 20% is completely reasonable given the base wages we all know the staff are paid.
If anything, I think restaurants that have that 17-18% policy for parties of 5 or more are low-balling themeslves.
Waiters do get paid very well. In many states waiters get the state min. wage plus tips. In Cali it is 9/hr plus tips. Unless the tip is left via CC many waiters under report their earnings and therefore are taxed less. So tipping 20% as a base is ridiculous.
P.S. There is a difference between a waiter and server. Waiters have less than 5 tables and pay attention to their patrons like a hawk. They refill the drinks without being noticed and anticipate needs like extra condiments, napkins, bread etc. A Waiter is butler for food. A server on the other hand simply takes your order, delivers your food and waits for you to flag her down to get you something.
Ryan – FALSE. Actually, it's more common to NOT get Federal minimum wage plus tips. I serve in North Dakota, and granted the cost of living isn't as high as somewhere like Cali, we get paid only $4.86/hr. In some states, servers make even less – somewhere along the lines of $3/hr. I wouldn't say I EXPECT a tip, but because my wages suck and my paycheck for a full week of work is never more than $100 (after tax), I rely on tips. Therefore, I make sure my service is far above par and sometimes I still get stiffed. I know it's not me, because I am there to serve. It's the people that don't think they should have to tip. And yes, when I was working at a different establishment, whether I got tipped or not, 3% of all my sales for the day went to paying bussers, hosts, and bartenders.
This SHOULDN'T be the guest's problem. But it's just common courtesy to tip for good service, and some people just don't get that.
When I was serving/waitering in Southwest Florida I was making $2.11 an hour. I made good tips because I kept an eye on my tables.
I live in Houston and I am a server in a popular restaurant in town. I am paid the federal minimum of $2.13/hr + tips and what I have to endure sometimes is out of bounds. Yes, I made the choice of jobs after being laid off and not finding something in my field. I make a good living for my FAMILY. I give it my all to support my family and the families of those who support me in serving my guests. I don't always look forward to going to work everyday, but I do and give a honest effort to each table that I serve. I do not condone what was done to the patrons of the restaurant in the story. I do hope that if anyone thinks that I gave poor service would voice their displeasure. I have had bad days and have received
tips that I felt that I didn't deserve. I have also had to pay for a lot of people to sit in my station and run me ragged and not leave one red cent. I love my job for the experience I hope I provide to the people who choose to come to the restaurant. I also hope to be rewarded for making their time in my station very special. Just remember those who are your server are not your servants.
As a server in a high-volume, well respected Chicago institution, I would like to point out that if a guest doesn't tip me, I actually will be paying out of my pocket to tip the other support staff based on my sales. If a group of 5 spends $250 and leaves no tip, then I will have to pay about $20 on that check to support staff. And while bad service can indeed happen, there are also demographics that simply refuse to tip, no matter how great the service is. Waiting tables can be a great, lucrative job, but it can also be a level of hell on Earth. People who don't tip because they are cheap and ignorant had better hope that the concept of kharma is a myth.
Not everyone can have a great job. Even going to college no longer guarantees a high-paying career or even a job. It is unfortunate that your specific workplace requires you to tip out even if you did not receive a tip but, don't complain about just do something about it. Find a better job.
And p.s. I'm putting myself through college to be a Physical Therapist – so I AM getting a better job. But until then, I have bills to pay, and unfortunately, I wasn't a trust fund baby. You people who think that servers are doing what they do because they can't find a better job are the most ignorant pieces of crap on the planet. The most hated patrons in restaurants are those who treat the waitstaff like garbage just because they're working in the service industry. While I don't agree with adding an automatic gratuity, sometimes it IS necessary, because the servers who bust their asses despite knowing the tip is guaranteed do occasionally get hosed.
1. You ARE doing what you do because you cannot find a better job, at least not one that will grant you the flexible hours you need to complete your PT training.
2. I never once said I treat my waitstaff like garbage. I actually treat them very well. Yes Sir, No ma'am, thank your... are all words that I use when dining out. I also do tip 20% as a base for waiter, I also tip 15% and down for severs, see above for my definition and distinction between the two.
3. I'm a regular at Mesa Grill in NYC. I go there once a week and my bill is never less than 250 and the tip is never less than 50. I have a waiter that gave me her personal number so that she can make sure she gets my table because she knows how well I tip.
4. I cannot judge how well you personally perform at your job because I do not know you and therefore cannot refute your claim but, I think you can concede to agree that your service should be the same to all patrons as that is what your employer hired you to do.
I have always been taught that if you can't afford to tip then you can't afford that restaurant. On the same hand the tip should recognize the level of service received.
Why can't we just pay wait staff a living wage and get rid of tipping altogether? It would make a lot more sense.
Because they're incentivized to provide better service if the call if left to the customer. Why would someone go out of their way to make you happy if they're getting that percentage no matter what?
And would you be happy with having all the prices marked up automatically to cover that cost, especially when the staff could care less about you?
If the staff provides good service and the customer tips a fair, deserved amount the system works great. Problem is that there are cheap a-holes out there who think it's appropriate to leave a measly 10-12% when the norm is 20%.
Incentives disappear when stereotypes rule your behavior. Since you judge certain ethnic groups as non-tippers I am sure you provide slower service to those people.
I lived in Japan for many years, where there is no tipping and the servers/waiters get paid a decent wage. I never ONCE got bad service. In fact, the service there was exceptional compared to most places here in the US. It all comes down to work ethic and simply doing a good job because you are paid to. I personally think tipping should go away as well. Too many things require it when I am already paying a nice price for the service.
@Jason, like the rest of us, they would go out of their way to do a good job because they care about still having that job.
This is a cultural issue in the US. Many people (not just restaurant employees) think they are entitled to fairness in the United States because it's the land of opportunity. This is obviously a fallacy because opportunity is reliant on the individual and what they make of it. LUCK comes from circumstance. When you start putting energy into doing something for the "greater good" and not for "greater return" you might find your self LUCKY. This applies to life in general. If you are dependant on someONE or someTHING for whatever reason, it's your responsibility to ensure that dependency is filled and if not you must move on and seek other opportunities for yourself. No one else can be made responsible. DO NOT RELY ON THE GENERAL PUBLIC FOR YOUR INCOME.
I waited tables during college at a popular food and ice cream establishment (1970's). Although I generally made amongst the highest tips of the waiters, tips in the house were usually very light, the large parties (8+ and up to 40) were notorious for being the cheapest if they tipped at all. Through all that, I kept in mind an old saying that a TIP was To Insure Promptness, and not to be expected if service was mediocre. In the years since, my experience has been that autograts 1) are a disincentive to good service, waiters are generally more distant, less personable, and even curt where autograts exist, 2) in very few cases has the use of an autograt been pointed out to me, causing me to believe the wait staff passively takes advantage of the customer who tips in addition to the autograt, 3) there has been a sly and self-serving escalation of the old rule of a tip being 15%; autograts routinely are 18% and up to 25% of the billing. The practice effectively makes dining like buying an airline ticket with many fee add-ons. Regretably I have come to bypass establishments that I know use autograts, I just find the service better elsewhere.
I spent 20 years in the Hospitality industry. The article is correct when it states that this is for the protection of the employees. Large groups take a disproportionate amount of a servers time, and if they get stiffed, it could wipe out the majority of their earnings for the day. However, It should be made clear to the party before they order. The better places do this when the reservation is made, or when the group shows up at the restaurant.
Having said that, once you sit down, enderstand that you will pay that, regardless of the service level. If the service warrants the tip, fine. If the service is above expectations, I leave a little extra to show my appreciation. However, if the service is substandard, I pay, but I ask to speak to the manager, and let them know what the issues were. But in any case, if it was stated up front, I pay for it. Besides, if you handle it maturely and respectfully, the Manager may offer to negotiate a lower gratuity, or offer you a coupon, free drinks, dessert, etc. It only turns out badly when both sides become stubborn and belligerant.
I would pay so I could leave, then call your credit card bank and dispute the entire amount as 'not as described' or 'not delivered'. Since they included service in the bill, it is part of the 'product', and they did not deliver it. I would also suggest that they file a criminal complaint for false imprisonment, or at least contact a lawyer to discuss it. Also, if you or anyone in your party was physically touched you could look into the laws in you state on assault. Get the Officer's name so that you can also consider a claim for false complaint and attempted false arrest or what ever the statue is in your state for illegal threats of police action. Not against the officer, but because you will need the name to do any follow-up.
and 2) Note that #1 goes a long way to supporting #2. Also, 3) make it very public so no restaurant ever does that again.
I like tipping for good service....I like the idea of autograts because that is fair to the server....but I am quite confused WHY they should HAVE to pay tips if they think they got bad service.....A tip used to be given for 2 reasons:
1. You are pleased with the dinner and the service.
2. You want to show off
Now looks like tips have been added to the so-called "Rights" of these individuals serving meals. As a result, they might not even TRY to be good at it and earn the tip.
To begin with, five is not a large group – 8 seems to be about right amount. Furthermore, servers should have an incentive for providing good service. Auto-tipping does not incent servers to provide good service.
My incentive for doing my job is not being fired why can't that be true for servers.
Incentive is good. The difference between bad, good and great does include the food, but the enjoyment of everything can be utterly destroyed by a server with a bad attitude or bad service that makes you constantly look for the server to remind them to bring something key to the dinner. Whereas a good, pleasant, engaging or distant server (depending upon the situation) can bring just the correct feeling to a meal enhancing it immensely. I think a server is there to provide a meal as a pleasant experience. If they do neither, they get zip...except maybe my 2 cents worth.
I have worked for tips since I was 16 yrs old ( now 37 ) I would rather there not be an auto charge because if you are good at your job and make the guest feel welcome and appreciated than you will probably get a better tip if it is not added.
All the people saying they should give servers regular pay, do you understand what kind of service and server you would have coming to your tables. How often to you go to Mc donalds or any other fast food joint and have a friendly face greet you. I would say maybe 30% of the time. That is what you would be recieving if the server was paid Minimum wage or a little more.
Tips are what make us servers give great service and are friendly to you. Without them you will have rude teenagers waiting on you and they won't care how happy you are. I always go home with a decent pay average because I strive to give excellent service I want the guest to go away from the table thinking WOW that was one of the best Servers I have ever had.
If you don't get that than don't tip that 20%, because that is what the sever is working for and it is there job to do that.
If You don't belive in tipping that cook your own food or go to fast food or order carry out. I hope they never change the tipping policy becasue a great server can go home with a good amount of money at the end of the night.
I waited tables for almost 10 years. I managed a restaurant for 5 years. I eat out at restaurants weekly. I receive excellent service, and I receive poor service. I see many sides to this.
I agree that if you receive poor service, you should not have to pay the auto-grat and what this restaurant did in this case was wrong.
However, it is obvious by reading the comments that the discussion keeps going back to why patrons should tip in the first place. It would be wonderful if the restaurant owners could pay their staff enough money where tips were not required. This would mean that the price of the meal would increase significantly. Unfortunately, that is just not the way it is.
One comment I have not seen (granted I only ready the first half of the whole list of comments) is that servers are required to claim their tips at the end of their shift. They pay taxes on the majority of the tips they get. They pay taxes on the tips they should have received regardless of whether or not they actually received the tips in question. At the end of their shift, a server is required to claim at least a base percentage of what their overall sales were for the shift. Many many many times I had to claim I received more money in tips than I actually walked out the door with. I paid taxes on what I claimed.
So if a large party comes in, runs up a tab of $500.00, and leaves $10 for the server, that server just lost out big time. They may as well have stayed home that day. That server most likely had to claim they received $50 in tips from that table even though they only got $10. They then had to pay taxes on that $50. Round out the income tax just for demonstration purposes to 20% and that $10 just went to Uncle Sam. The server made nothing.
Not the mention the fact that if the server also had to split their tips with the bartender and food runners, that $10 went to them and the server actually lost money. In essence, the server paid money in exchange for the honor to wait on that table.
As far as the hourly wage goes, that wage is usually just enough to cover the amount of taxes they have to pay on the tips they had to claim. I would get paid every 2 weeks and would be happy to net $30.00 in my check.
As far as the comments about professional servers, yes being a server is a profession, not just a job that students do while in school. Of course, those professional servers work mostly in fine-dining establishments where their experience can be rewarded. Professional servers know every menu item, the ingredients, what wine pairs best with what entree, etc. They can make your dining experience more enjoyable because they know what flavors in what foods best complement each other. They can recommend the correct salad or dressing that will make sure to not conflict with the taste of the demi-glace on the cut of beef you are having for your next course.
I have always had the opinion that one should not be allowed to frequent a restaurant unless they have had the experience of working in some type of service industry at one time in their life. It gives you a unique perspective.
Hi Tips_are_Taxed,
Very nice and detailed explanation you have given..
I understand your point that tips are taxed but why would anyone(Server) have to claim more in tip then they actually got.. Regarding your example if you just got $10 in tip why would you have to claim $50, is there a rule saying that you must at least receive certain percentage in tip of the overall bill?
"One comment I have not seen (granted I only ready the first half of the whole list of comments) is that servers are required to claim their tips at the end of their shift."
May I ask *WHAT* does the GOVERNMENT have to do with tipping?
"They pay taxes on the majority of the tips they get."
They should be paying EVERY CENT of taxes on their tips just as everybody else has to claim every cent we make, so should YOU!! This still has NOTHING to do with tipping, it really doesn't. We don't control what the government does.
"They pay taxes on the tips they should have received regardless of whether or not they actually received the tips in question. At the end of their shift, a server is required to claim at least a base percentage of what their overall sales were for the shift. Many many many times I had to claim I received more money in tips than I actually walked out the door with. I paid taxes on what I claimed."
That's not the customer's problem. Taxes have ZERO to do with service issues when it comes to tipping a server!
I can't imagine that there is any IRS requirement to report more income than you have actually been paid. That would be the definition of oppression.
Assuming that voluntary tipping will yield a tip appropriate to the service (i.e. generous for excellent service, average for average service, less down to nothing for poor service) I'm not sure why I, as the customer, should be concerned about whether or not you, as the waiter, will lose money. If you do then that's simply a result of your level of service, isn't it? (Of course I realize that my assumption isn't entirely valid-maybe I should pay a tip even for poor service to make up for those who refuse to tip even for excellent service. Or maybe not-to me that's like the income tax argument, who should pay how much, and we'd probably be just as likely to reach an agreement on that.)
I have had the same thing happen to me … lousy service and forced to pay a tip. This is nothing more than private enterprise doing what government has done to us for years. The employees begin to think they are entitled to the tip – kind of like welfare recipients feel they are entitled to their check. What happened to the American where, work hard, do a good job, and get paid fairly for it. Oh yes, the Democrats through their distribution of wealth programs have stolen that from America.
Wow, an article about tipping at a restaurant became the Democrats fault. How about this: Republicans fire teachers, police, firemen, break unions, thereby destroying many middle class jobs. Then, they ruin the country's credit rating. They do all this reducing of middle class wages so the saved money can continue go to subsidies of oil companies and other big business. If you want to talk about destroying the lives of people who work for a living – you have to look at the Republicans.
I've never heard of "La Fisherman" before, but I certainly won't be eating there now!
why ? obviously you don't eat out much. Large parties will always have a gratuity added. Who knows what the service was like but I have a feeling this person is upset about it and trying to make it look bad
5 is not a large party.
The ethnic groups of the people and their class involved in this matter should not matter, but does and hence the real story is not be revealed. I know the ethnicities of the people involved, in this one. 5 people demanding, everything in sight and then complain bad service and leave just a dollar or two usually they get away with it. The game when played (by a minority of people) is usually against those of either mexican and asian ethnicity. I it is called gottcha! and is played by
Thanks for bring racism into the picture. I think you are full of what food becomes after it is digested. I live in a place with many Asian and Hispanic servers, and I love them and the service. Truth be told, Asians as a rule or the most polite servers in the world and I admire them. I go out for sushi at my favorite place, and I see such beauty in their grace that I can almost forget how expensive sushi is compared to common lunch fair (comparative for dinner). I resent your remarks.
I used to be a server and guess what? All the stereotypes are 100% true. Whether based on age, race, or situation, they are all true. A groups of teens won't tip at all. Old people also tip horribly. A young guy on a date will tip really well. Black people and Jewish people complain the most and don't tip well. People from foreign countries visiting will rarely tip. Asian people will not even order that much food, try and order one meal and split it between two people, then barely tip. People at business lunches usually tip really well because it's on the company. Don't care how insensitive it sounds, all of these stereotypes while not 100% true are true like, 80% of the time.
" All the stereotypes are 100% true."
"... all of these stereotypes while not 100% true are true like, 80% of the time."
??
Interestingly, the ONLY time I ever waited on a table that flat-out didn't tip (after I had provided impeccable service – they were my only table and everything was perfect), it was a white guy on a date with his white girlfriend.
Cheap a**holes. If you can't afford to tip, then you can't afford to dine out. Stick with McDonald's or Burger King cheapskates
Try learning what the word "TIP" means, then try actually earning a TIP. If you don't like the wages you are paid, then get an education and a different job.
You obviously were offended by my comment. That must mean that you can't afford to dine out. So don't dine out cheapskate.
totally agree Gil, Gurgi sounds like a cheapskate
You would be surprised at how many servers actually have an education but cannot find a job or are waiting tables as a second job. I have a Bachelor's degree but in this economy finding a job has proven difficult. I also have a friend that I work with who is a teacher but is also waiting tables on the weekends to provide supplemental income for his family. Do not assume that all servers are uneducated and lazy. At least we are working and not just sitting at home, applying for welfare checks.
I'm sorry that your BA/BS did not earn you a good job, moreover, I am sorry that you feel that you are entitled to one just because you have a degree. If tipping was to actually ensure prompt service it would be paid before the meal and not after. Tipping is a patrons way of saying thanks, good job,bad job, okay job etc.
If you do not get a tip, take that up with your employer not the patron. The employer just wants the money others he would raise the prices and give you a salary.
@Ryan, I don't see where Kelly says or suggests that she's entitled to a job in her field. She merely mentions that it is hard in this economy.
Perhaps it's the restaurant owners who are the cheap ones. Why should this industry be allowed to underpay by such a large amount and expect their customers to pick up the slack. Waiters/resses should be paid at least the minimum wage or more depending on their experience and then if a customer feels especially pleased with their service they may tip if they wish. By your logic you should also be tipping the cashier who rings in your groceries and the sales person who sells your pants. They don't get paid well either.
If you take away the incentive for servers to provide excellent service you are rewarding those who provide mediocre to bad service. Tipping should be an indication of customer satisfaction and should be up to the "tippee" to decide whether or not the service they received warranted additional compensation. If restaurant servers were paid an appropriate wage based on their experience and professionalism there would be no need for them to have to rely on tips. Automatic or otherwise. Tips would be a bonus for going above and beyond, not a form of forced gratuity.
If you want servers to make more hourly, you're going to end up paying for it anyway when the menu prices increase.
Not want the PO-lice to run Wants & Warrants on her group, Jasmine reluctantly paid the auto-gratuity.
Don't hit too close to home or this comment will end up deleted like so many others. Everyone who has ever waited tables knows it, but you just can't say it because freedom of speech is a thing of the past. Oh goodie, a table of thugs, let's head over there with a handful of straws and a brave face but don't expect civility or a tip. They are worse than Euro's when it comes to gratuity. Just ask a pizza delivery guy...they know from experience.
I guess La Fisherman restaurant in Houston won't be getting much business from CNN readers. Was locking the doors on the customers worth it? Hadn't they hear that the customer is King, especially in the days of the Internet?
Cheap bastards. If you can't afford to tip, then you can't afford to dine out. Stick with McDonald's or Burger King cheapskates.
I can afford to eat out and often do. I leave a tip when I find that it is EARNED by my waiter/waitress. If I receive lousy service then I do not tip!
Thats why all the waitstaff is salaried, though not extravagantly but modestly so that they can get on by even without tips. It works as I have 12 of my 20 waiters working for 6years now. Tips are bonus. Customers love my waiters. Everyone is happy!
I think the US should adopt the more common western tradition and do away with tipping. Restaurants should be forced to 1. pay wait staff at least federal (or state if it's more) minimum wage, and 2. factor the 15-18% into the price of food. This will eliminate hassle.
The Western World? A significant portion of the Western World is the US. Hahaha, auto-grat is dumb, if you give good service people will leave 20% or more. The server who locked the door should have been arrested for kidnapping.
Sure pay servers Minimum wage so your server will treat you like any fast food worker. Servers work harder because they are tipped and if they are good at what they do average well over Minimum wage. There is no way I would serve for 7.25 an hour. Not worth all the hassle we have to put up with.
If you go to a restaurant with a large party and the menu clearly states that gratuity will be automatically added, and you stay, you have entered into a contract and have agreed to pay the stated gratuity. However, in my opinion, if the service is horrible, or there is other good reason, you can attempt to avoid this duty by arguing a violation of the duty of good faith and fair dealing.
Implied contract really hard to prove in court if and when it comes to that, and if the management is ever flexible even once about policy the whole thing is shot.
No, you have not entered into a contract. You need three elements to have a contract. Offer, acceptance, and consideration. You could reasonably argue that the offer is made and accepted, but that does not a contract make. The consideration would come in the form of payment for services rendered, and that doesn't happen until after the auto-tip. It is perfectly reasonable for a person to modify the agreement before payment takes place.
The way it works is that waitstaff usually make about $2-$2.50 per hour.....the rest of their money comes from tips. When they go to file taxes the government charges them 8% of the waitstaff's total food bills for the year. If they served $10,000 in food, they owe $800 in taxes. Someone who does not tip at all regardless of service is actually costing the waiter/waitress money....
And a bad waiter can ruin an entire meal. Sometimes service is so bad that the 200 dollar meal is in no way worth 200 bucks, but you still have to pay full price for the meal, the waiter has caused your meal to be way overpriced and is lucky not to owe the customer money.
I agree they can ruin it, but they do that too often they won't make any money or get fired. I'm not saying that they automatically should get 18%....just that people dining out should understand how it all works.....
I have ate out long enough to know the same people will complain over and over. They look for reasons to not have to tip, its sorry, but people will be people, they just suck at tipping , well those who constantly complain do. They are never satisfied, pathetic
They pay taxes on the $800 in that situation not that amount.
You're right....sry left that part out.....
Look, large parties are almost always more complicated, more annoying, and more time-consuming than smaller tables with the same number of people. Large parties spend at least twice as much time deciding what they want to order because their members are having multiple conversations at once. Furthermore, people tend to be more obnoxious in large parties and don't ever seem to understand that the waiter has other tables. There's no question that large parties are more difficult to handle. Also, when a large group stiffs a waiter out of a tip, that's going to be far more painful than when one out of five tables does it. This is why auto-gratuities are added – to make sure that a waiter who has served a group that has taken up several tables in his section does not get screwed in the end. When a waiter has five other tables in addition to the large party, it's possible that it may take a bit longer for things to get out; have patience, people, some things are out of the waiter's control.
But you're assuming that the waiter has provided decent service. Thats a bad assumption to make. I've gone to restaurants with large parties, and the waiters knew that there would be a guaranteed tip for them, so they provided bad service! This isn't acceptable behavior, and to be locked in a restaurant because you don't want to pay for bad service? Really?
bad service or not, they still took the orders and got the correct food and drinks. i would have discussed a compromising solution such as leaving 10%. if the manager is not willing to work with that and it is not acceptable to you as a patron, then take note and dont come back.
In the end, you are only hurting yourself, if we're honest about it. I've been known to fork out 35% for truly excellent service, but a restaurant having the audacity to mandate that I pay a certain percentage, regardless of the quality of service, results in a situation where that mandated gratuity is all that the server is going to get from me, regardless of whether or they they were the best waiter on the planet.
So you have a choice – bust your behind and get 35%, or take the guaranteed 18%.
Actually, it isn't mentioned here, but when they were on the radio discussing it a few weeks ago, NO, they had not even gotten all of their food and drinks.
Plus, if I want additional food or drink and the waiter cannot be found or IGNORES ME (which has happened), how on earth does that justify having to pay the tip?
This has nothing to do with being cheap.
"bad service or not, they still took the orders and got the correct food and drinks."
That's NOT the *ONLY* part of service though. My husband and I have STIFFED for overcharges before. I DEPENDS on HOW THEY ARE HANDLED. Also, if someone waits 20 minutes for a refill, HOW does that matter they got things right otherwise, huh? That's just STUPID what you said.
I think the number of the party should be on a decreasing percentage scale. For example, a party of 30 could have a bill of $1,000. A 10% tip is $100. A party of 6 could reasonably have a bill of $150. A 20% tip is $30. I understand that the waiter works harder with a larger party, but they also benefit from a bigger bill.
I always ask if we can have this done before setting up a larger dinner gathering at a restaurant.
If they won't, then I generally won't set my reservations for that. Out of about the 12 we've done in the past few years, we only had poor service once and they ended up with a crappy tip. The rest generally receive closer to 25 or 40% tips.
Can anyone explain to me why the restaurant owners can get away with paying such low wages to their staff? How is it legal to pay them under minimum wage and then just say "Well you can make up the difference in tips? What other industry works this way? It shouldn't be up to the customer to make sure the wait staff is making a living wage.
That is a question I have been asking for a long time. It's a win-win situation for the restaurant owner.
In Texas, where I live and work, the minimum wage for a server is $2.13/hr. The restaurant owner assumes that a server can make the extra $5.12/hr and that will equal minimum wage. This usually is the case. If you have six tables and get a dollar at each table then you've made the minimum wage for that hour. Now, technically if you do not make the state mandated minimum wage when all of your tips are added up then the restaurant owner has to compensate for that. Now here is where things get tricky. Generally at restaurants you are given better shifts and better sections based on your sales and tip percentage. So servers will sometimes over-claim tips so that they can get better sections. Let's say for example you do $100 in sales for one shift (this is actually low, but it's an easy example) and you make $50 off of those $100 sales then you've made 50% tips. This looks a lot better than someone making $20 off of the same amount of sales. Usually managers read your tip percentage as an indication that customers like you and they want to reward you. But, you never know if someone is over claiming their tips so they can get those better shifts and sections. You can claim as many cash tips if you want, even if you did not make them.
Also, when you're shift only lasts say four hours if business is slow, even if you make 20% on each table but only have 4 tables then you're walking out with money that does not constitute a living wage. I would love to be paid a higher hourly wage that way when a table stiffs me (and it's happened. Sometimes no matter what you do you cannot make a person happy) then I'm not losing money on the transaction. I've also noticed that people will come in with cash and set aside a certain amount of money for the meal (including tip) so if they spend most of their money on the meal (say they set aside $50 for family of 5) and spend $45 of that, you get the remaining $5 dollars, regardless of how well you did your job.
Hairdressers can often have this arrangement and be paid less than minimum wage and expect to make up the difference in tips.
The bottom line is most waiters only make $2.13 per hour plus tips. There are sooooo many people who go out to eat and find the smallest thing to complain about, and use it as an excuse to not tip well, or at all. It disgusts me. Heaven forbid you had to wait 2 minutes to get your drink refilled. Half of the problems are caused by the kitchen, who the servers have no control over. Also, restaurants are different from fast food, because all you have to do is sit down, and you are waited on. If you want fast food, then go get it, but then YOU will have to walk up to the counter, order your food, look up the ingredients, find out recommended dishes and information on specials, refill drinks, get condiments, napkins, utensils, make special requests, and so much more on your own. If you go to a restaurant, expect to leave 20%, which is normal for good service. Exceptional service is above 20%. Bad service is 10%. If you cant afford to leave a good tip, why are you eating out in the first place? Imagine you are the one making $2.13 an hour.....
THANK YOU!!!
Waiters are paid $2.13 per hour plus tips with the understanding that if their tips fail to produce the equivalent of minimum wage, the employer is responsible for making up the difference, so no. I'll tip as I see appropriate. I owe you nothing for simply doing your job, but if you do it well I'll reward you. If you don't, you can collect minimum wage from your employer.
BAD service should get a 10% tip? I'm sorry – stop being stupid. A tip is a gratuity – it is NOT owed to anyone and NOT mandatory at all. Mediocre service may get 10% frmo my wallet, but BAD service? No way. I don't care if waiting tables pays poorly – if you do your job well you can assume you'll get a decent tip. If you do a poor job? You'd be lucky if I dont complain to the management and get the meal comped. Such arrogance!
10% is not a tip for bad service, no tip is for bad service. 20% is exceptional and above that is excellant. If you dont like it, dont wait tables.
Bad service gets a 0.00 tip and a frowny face from me, sorry server's next time maybe you'll remember to refill my lemonade.
Interesting how people are talking about refills. Most places I have worked and eaten at charge for each drink, soft or otherwise. On the rare occasions I have been to a "free refill" establishment, it is like pulling teeth to get someone to notice about 50% of the time. Still, that is usually due to restaurant policy. The owner wants to get you in with the promise of a bargain, or all you can drink, but discourages the server from refilling too often.
As to the general tip idea, I agree that 5 people is a rather small amount for an autocrat, and I don't like them myself (although I do pay them, because it is the cost of going out and clearly stated on the menu). On the other hand, have any of you been with a large group who insist on splitting the check by what they ordered? When the "kitty" is counted, somehow there is seldom enough money to cover the bill. I have found myself in the position of covering for business associates or even friends who are sly and cheap. So, at least if the tip is included, the sucker left with the deficit can remind people of their owed percentage, and there are no arguments about "I only want to tip 10%" etc.
There are always going to be people who take advantage of others, on both sides of the serving question. At least if it is stated clearly, one has a leg to stand on.
By the way, in the UK, a 10% tip is added onto a restaurant bill. There is, however, a notice printed that the customer can "omit the gratuity" if they feel the service was bad. And if you are in a pub, you buy the barman/maid a drink.
"Half of the problems are caused by the kitchen, who the servers have no control over"
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are 100% INCORRECT! MOST issues your server has control over or another server, here's why:
90% of the time it's the SERVER'S FAULT:
1. They can put in the order wrong into the computer or if it's a written ticket they submit, they could have written something down wrong or hard to read.
2. They could have forgotten to put in the order in the first place.
3. Servers can also misunderstand what the customer is saying such as 2 times when I ordered 2 sides of bbq sauce and the stupid idiot servers thought I didn’t want bbq sauce on my ribs when I NEVER ONCE SAID I didn’t and I didn’t say “ON THE SIDE”, I SAID SIDES, which means extra. One of those times I said extra even.
4. Most mistakes with food are visible:
A. Condiments of any kind regardless of who brings out the food can be brought out by the server ahead of time.
B. If someone orders extra crispy bacon with their pancakes, then the bacon looks limp, not stiff, and you can even see some white fat on it, guess what? MY SERVER COULD HAVE SEEN THAT TOO AND TOLD THE COOKS IT WASN'T CORRECT, TO RECOOK IT INSTEAD OF BRINGING IT TO ME WRONG IN THE FIRST PLACE!
C. Any wrong side dishes or entrees are the fault of the server if they bring out the food even if they put in the order right. You can tell the difference between a baked potato and mac n' cheese, yet, a waiter at Logan's Roadhouse was so stupid as to bring me mac n' cheese when I ordered a baked potato. I noticed it within 5 seconds of the food hitting my table. Like DUH a baked potato looks completely different from mac n' cheese.
D. Any MISSING side dishes, appetizers, condiments, or entrees ARE the server's fault if they bring out the food as well. Have had that happen a few times or so. Our servers aren't blind, so they can tell if something is missing or not.
E. I have seen a red steak delivered to someone before at Outback which means let's say the customer ordered their steak well done, that the server could have noticed the color difference as in your example “Steak cooked rare instead of well done ? It’s not your server’s fault, they didn’t cook it, it’s the kitchen’s fault.”
F. If something LOOKS burnt such as a piece of bread with the food and the person didn't order it burnt, my server is at fault for serving me that.
G. If my server forgets an item that an entree or appetizer comes with, that's their fault if they brought me my food without the item such as a side dish or ranch.
H. I have ordered at Outback my fries "lightly cooked" "Not overdone and yellow not brown." I have had their fries before cooked the way I like them before many of times before this time I am talking about. This stupid waitress decided to blame the kitchen staff for REALLY DARK BROWN FRIES as if she was blind or something and my husband even told me he could see that they were really dark. My husband may not agree with me on every subject of course, but with that, you could EASILY tell just by LOOKING that those fries were overdone and very dark. She said she put in the order correctly. I am thinking, SO? I wish I could have said "Are you blind?" That was HER FAULT she DECIDED TO SERVE ME THOSE FRIES THAT WEREN'T CORRECT. I noticed the mistake within 3 seconds of my food being placed in front of me.
My server's job isn't just to bring out what the kitchen staff gives them, it's also getting the order OBVIOUSLY correct to the table as much as possible in order to get that good tip. As someone said on a blog or forum “They just want to be tipped well and will do pretty much anything reasonable to get your money”, which that IS VERY REASONABLE to think OUR SERVERS ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THEIR TIP TO GET THINGS RIGHT TO HAVE A BETTER TIP!!
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Same thing with dark brown fries vs. lightly colored fries, that you can tell just by LOOKING at fries if they are really overdone or not.
You also can notice if someone has wing sauce "On the side" vs. "On the wings" themselves. This isn't rocket science.
Most of the things that are wrong with the food can be caught by the server if they bring out the food, even if they didn't cook it. If it's another server, they can catch obvious errors on the ticket and menu(such as menu states the item comes with bbq sauce and the ticket doesn't say "no bbq sauce") if the ticket was correctly put in by the original server that took the order. Condiments(in bottles or on the side in containers) can always be offered to be brought out ahead of time REGARDLESS of WHO brings out the food to the table.
So most of the time when the food has something wrong with it, chances are, your server or another server could have caught the mistake before it got to you in most instances. I NEVER said ALL, but in most cases, it can be caught BEFORE bringing out the food(unless another server brings out the food with the ticket wrong), because then the original server that took the order is at fault for putting the order in incorrectly into the computer.
There are few rare cases where the food being wrong is the kitchen staff's fault such as raw food(such as raw chicken), slightly undercooked or overcooked food that you'd have to CUT into to know if it was under or overcooked, or anything the server cannot see with their eyes unless they were to TOUCH the food. Things such as a pickle under a bun the server can't notice unless they lift the bun, so unless they put the order in wrong, they wouldn't be at fault, but in general most food mistakes can be caught BEFORE bringing the food to the table.
What I am saying is, MOST mistakes ARE PREVENTABLE by the SERVER if they bring your order to you that they can NOTICE things wrong by comparing those written orders to the plates of food.
Once a waiter at Chili's said "The kitchen forgot" when I had ordered 2 sides of mayo and 1 side of mustard. The thing is, my waiter brought out the food, so NO, HE HE HE HE HE FORGOT, the kitchen staff didn't step out the kitchen to bring me my food and forget obvious missing containers from my plate that aren't covered up by anything. MY WAITER DID THOUGH!! I HATE this type of attitude. YOU have that attitude it seems.
You walk in one room in your house with a plate of food, but forget the ranch. Even if your mom or significant other plated your food, which you even told her you wanted a side of ranch for your fries, but you bring it to another room. HOW IS THAT THEIR FAULT? It's YOUR FAULT YOU LEFT THE ROOM WITHOUT THE RANCH AND DIDN'T NOTICE IT SINCE IT'S SOMETHING OBVIOUS YOU DON'T HAVE TO *TOUCH* TO NOTICE THE MISTAKE!!
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Once a waiter at Chili's said "The kitchen forgot" when I had ordered 2 sides of mayo and 1 side of mustard. The thing is, my waiter brought out the food, so NO, HE HE HE HE HE FORGOT, the kitchen staff didn't step out the kitchen to bring me my food and forget obvious missing containers from my plate that aren't covered up by anything. MY WAITER DID THOUGH!! I HATE this type of attitude. YOU have that attitude it seems.
You walk in one room in your house with a plate of food, but forget the ranch. Even if your mom or significant other plated your food, which you even told her you wanted a side of ranch for your fries, but you bring it to another room. HOW IS THAT THEIR FAULT? It's YOUR FAULT YOU LEFT THE ROOM WITHOUT THE RANCH AND DIDN'T NOTICE IT SINCE IT'S SOMETHING OBVIOUS YOU DON'T HAVE TO *TOUCH* TO NOTICE THE MISTAKE!!
Even if he didn't bring out the food, that waiter could have prevented that type of thing from being forgotten since it needs no cooking to bring it out ahead of time. It is always the person bringing out the food that is at fault for any type of mistake that you don't have to TOUCH the food to notice the mistake, unless of course, the ticket was put in wrong by the original server that took the order with another server bringing out the food. Of course unless, the kitchen goofs up, making it correctly even if the ticket is wrong, but that's highly unlikely scenario.
I cannot believe you honestly think that the server is not at fault for most food mistakes. WE LIVED THROUGH THE "DUH" MISTAKES, SO WE CAN SEE WITH OUR EYES WHO WAS AT FAULT!!
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We had a waiter once admitted he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen. It was just my husband and I. This waiter not only admitted he didn't compare the WRITTEN ORDER with the entrées he was bringing out, but also we saw he had other entrées for another table that he didn't ONCE get his pad of paper out to see WHICH ENTRÉE WENT WITH WHICH TABLE!! So 2 times he could have caught his mistake, but didn't TRY HIS BEST AS HE SHOULD HAVE, because that's HIS JOB!!
He admitted that he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen. He brought my husband fried shrimp w/fries when he ordered crawfish au gratin w/baked potato. Those items look NOTHING A LIKE, but yet THAT WAITER WAS TOO LAZY AND UNCARING TO VERIFY WHAT HE WAS BRINGING US!! We still left him 17% BTW, just to let you know since he profusely apologized TWICE and FIXED THE SITUATION IMMEDIATELY just about. We honestly shouldn’t have though, because that really didn't make him LEARN anything. If I had to do it all over again, I would have tipped 13%. It's because since that happened(a number of years ago, maybe like 4), we have had some terrible experiences. We have had good ones too of course, but the servers need to LEARN that they can't just hand you ANYTHING like McDonald's cashiers do. They are there to EARN a tip, NOT to just hand you anything.
It's very rare that it's not the server's fault. Things like if I order no pickles if you took my order and brought out my food, which there are some pickles under a bun that you'd have to lift it to see it, unless you admitted putting in the order wrong, I will assume it's the kitchen staff that is at fault and probably is.
Things like raw chicken tenders aren't the fault of the server unless they are pink or something.
A slightly over or undercooked steak if the order was put in correctly is not the server's fault.
Also, some people assume things as well, that end up being wrong.
My point is, MOST of the time, the server can prevent mistakes from getting to the customers and it IS INDEED MOST OF THE TIME THEIR FAULT THE CUSTOMER RECEIVES THE MISTAKES.
If another server brings out a wrong side dish or if they are missing items other than condiments, no it's not the server's fault if they put in the order correctly, but it still counts against the tip. It's part of the service.
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If your food is taking too long it could be:
Ask yourself:
1. WHEN did you put in my order?
2. Did you put in my order CORRECTLY?
3. Did you FORGET to put in my order entirely?
4. Did you FORGET anything I ordered?
5. Did you bring out the WRONG FOOD the first time around, because you didn't VERIFY WHAT you were bringing me?
6. Did you FORGET OR DELAY GETTING MY ORDER TO ME?
7. Did you DROP my food on the floor?
These things CAN HAPPEN!!
Sometimes taking a long time or a longer time has A LOT to do with the server:
We have had 3 TIMES where servers FORGOT to put food orders into the computer. We also have 4 times servers forget to get bar drinks from the bar.
We also have had delays due to that the servers delayed putting orders into the computer when they COULD have such as deciding to buss a table first or decide instead of a mini-greet(I'll be right with you all), they decided to take like 6 people's drink/appetizer orders instead of putting in our food orders. I can understand if they call you over, but if they don't, you should be putting that order into the computer not delaying our food. The longer you wait to put in orders, the LONGER WE WAIT!!
Also, if your server put in your order wrong, that's THEIR FAULT you are waiting longer for your food, because the kitchen staff only knows what's on the ticket, PERIOD!!
My husband and I have had wrong food put into the computer and even stupid servers bring it out that took the order even. You have to be stupid to not even LOOK at WHAT you are bringing the person. Act like it's your food. I was once brought quesadillas when I ordered bbq chicken nachos. The waiter was too LAZY to COMPARE his written order to the food. Turns out, he admitted pressing a wrong button. So not only did he delay my food from getting to me by bringing me the completely wrong food, but also put in the order wrong to begin with. So he made 2 mistakes. That was the fault of the waiter, not the kitchen staff.
Also, if your server FORGETS something from the kitchen even though they put in the order correctly, that's on YOUR SERVER, NOT the kitchen staff since your server brought you your food. They have full control of what is in their hands they are taking you.
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Condiments are the most common thing to be forgotten. That is the server's fault no matter who brings you your food, because my server can offer to bring those out ahead of time.
The same situation I mentioned above about the waiter that grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen has to do with the wrong food as well as time. It was just me and my husband. This waiter not only admitted he didn't compare the WRITTEN ORDER with the entrées he was bringing out by saying he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen, but also we saw he had other entrées for another table that he brought out on a tray that he put on a tray jack which he didn't ONCE get his pad of paper out to see WHICH ENTRÉE WENT WITH WHICH TABLE!! I saw with my own 2 EYES he didn't EVER get his pad of paper to make sure he was bringing his customers the correct items. So 2 times he could have caught his mistake, but didn't TRY HIS BEST AS HE SHOULD HAVE, because that's HIS JOB!! So this wasn't even REAL MISTAKE, it was a LACK OF EFFORT and BEING LAZY!!
He admitted that he grabbed the wrong entrée from the kitchen. He brought my husband fried shrimp w/fries when he ordered crawfish au gratin w/baked potato. So it was HIS fault my husband's food took longer to get to him due to HE didn't check over his written order BEFORE bringing out all the entrées he brought out.
If your server delays going to get your food when they DO have a chance to run it, but they are chit-chatting about personal stuff, that is for sure their fault.
I would say 90% of the time your server had SOMETHING to do with how long you waited for your food by the fact that they didn't go put the order in as quickly as they could have in a fair manner that is. I don't expect our server to put in orders if they have food/drinks/request that came BEFORE we ordered, because they were BEFORE us, but when it is our turn, don't DISRESPECT OUR TURN by INTENTIONALLY DELAYING our food.
If the food is cold, sometimes it is the server's fault that they didn't bring your food due to that you were chit-chatting with your friends or customers instead of bringing out the food.
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1. Once, we had a Red Lobster waitress had our 2 entrées on the tray as well as 2 side salads that were for a couple that wasn’t even there when we ordered. Anyway, instead of bypassing their table to hand us ours first since WE DID ORDER FIRST(common sense would tell you that it takes more time to cook food than it does to fix a side salad anyways even if it wasn’t our server that delivered our food, but it was our waitress that delivered our food), she decided to hand them theirs first off the tray. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS IN THE SERVER’S CONTROL TO HAND OUT THINGS OFF THE SAME TRAY IN THE ORDER IN WHICH IT WAS ORDERED IN!!
2. Once, we had a waitress that greeted us which we ordered an appetizer as well as our drinks when greeted. I saw she tucking in chairs at empty tables and pretty much doing everything but coming back to get our entrée order. Well, I found out what happened. She brought out our appetizer and when I asked she said that she wanted to wait to put in our entrée orders. The thing is, that delayed us more by not at least coming to GET our orders. That way, when the appetizer was ready, we wouldn’t have gotten delayed eating our appetizer since we then had to give our entrée orders when we could have given our entrée orders WELL BEFORE THAT and we would have gotten our entrées faster due to that she could have just left to put our entrée orders into the computer after delivering our appetizer instead of taking time to order when our appetizer was sitting in front of us.
The point is, SHE delayed our entrées as well as to be able to start eating our appetizer because she could have at least TAKEN our entrée orders and then when our appetizer would have been brought out, could have immediately gone to the computer to put our entrée orders in.
What she did was make us wait while our hot appetizer was sitting in front of us, we couldn’t touch it, because we had to order our entrées and could have done that wayyy before that.
She also delayed our entrées because we had to spend extra time AFTER our appetizer arrived to give her our entrée orders when we could have done that wayyyy before that.
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3. Once, we had a waitress that assumed that because they were out of raspberry topping for a cheesecake slice when we had ordered dessert that she’d bring us strawberry. Turns out, she knew when she put in the order that the computer had it the manager told us. So she did it on PURPOSE to be so lazy and uncaring as to not come to ask if we wanted the next closest thing. We didn’t, we sent it back, so she had MORE WORK. Also, she didn’t even think about what if someone is allergic to strawberries. I just honestly can’t believe someone would do that. If they are out of something, common sense would be to come to see if the next closest thing is ok. Not everyone wants the next closest thing. So it wasn’t like it was just getting the order wrong by accident or by not verifying the written order with what she was bringing or putting in the order wrong by accident, this was on PURPOSE to be LAZY and to ASSUME. I didn’t know at first that she did that. I thought at first she just was that stupid(or truly just messed up(highly doubt it)) to bring us strawberries on top of a cheesecake when we ordered raspberries.
4. Your server delays coming to get your order or delays you ordering due to personal conversation. We have had that before as well. Once, we had a waiter that we didn’t know after waiting 15 mins. for a table on Mardi Gras day ask us BEFORE we ORDERED ANYTHING “How’s y’all’s Mardi Gras” “Go to any parades.” See, I don’t mind chit chat with a stranger, but be considerate to do it AFTER we have our orders into the computer so you don’t take up our time. THAT was in the server’s control as well. We have also had servers not come to get our order due to playing around. That’s in the server’s control too.
So just remember when you want to blame the kitchen staff, BLAME YOUR SERVER, because MOST LIKELY THEY CAUSED THE ISSUES!! THAT IS THE GOD'S TRUTH AND YOU KNOW IT!! You just don't want to admit the truth, because it hurts, doesn't it?
Remember the kitchen staff doesn't LEAVE the kitchen with an OBVIOUS to the EYES ERROR NOR do they put in an order wrong, NOR do they FORGET to put in an order, etc.
Goodness, you just wasted quite a bit of your life on a CNN message board.
Good point Alyssa. Also, apparently if you type some words in all caps and add a lot of exclamation points after them, it makes your statements more valid.
I bet you get a LOT of terrible service, considering the fact that you're such a c**t.
Bonnie
"I bet you get a LOT of terrible service, considering the fact that you’re such a c**t."
NO, I get terrible service because of MEAN, INCONSIDERATE and LAZY people like YOURSELF that don't care about anyone else except yourselves.
I don't MAKE these servers be lazy, mean, and inconsiderate, they do it all on their own.
I am actually *MUCH NICER* than the servers still telling them "THANK YOU" even though they didn't say they were sorry when they messed up, how about that one for ya, huh? I AM NICER THAN THEY ARE, so you don't know WTH you are talking about.
Mean? You nailed it...I am consistently mean to people who deserve it. Inconsiderate? Not particularly – in fact, I go out of my way to be considerate of others, unlike you, who refuses to tip someone for forgetting to bring the ketchup before the meal or for DARING to bring you a refill of your soft drink without asking you first because he or she has the CONSIDERATION not to interrupt your conversation for something that can be handled quietly and efficiently. Lazy? Far from it. I am an active mom to a VERY smart, vivacious, active preschooler. I have a graduate degree and am currently working on my doctoral thesis, I work out daily (Zumba and Crossfit), I am a competitive ballroom dancer, and I still manage to have hot, healthy, homecooked meals on the table every night when my husband comes home from from work (OH, by the way, he is an Officer in the U.S. Army – you're welcome!) and unwind to an episode of Big Bang Theory once or twice a week. And I'm 27. You're...what did you say?? 38 or so? Middle aged and sad, undereducated and underpaid, with nothing better to do than rant for hours online about waitstaff (with VERY poor grammar, cohesion, and sentence structure, I'll add...) and eat out 2 to 3 times a weekend. (I'm certain you're also huge if you eat out that often.)
Yes, you have failed as a woman and a human being. I am sorry for you. Have a fantastic night!
Bonnie
"I am consistently mean to people who deserve it."
I am NICE to those people, so that makes me a BETTER PERSON THAN YOU ARE!
"unlike you, who refuses to tip someone for forgetting to bring the ketchup before the meal or for DARING to bring you a refill of your soft drink without asking you first because he or she has the CONSIDERATION not to interrupt your conversation for something that can be handled quietly and efficiently."
WHERE do you get that I don't tip huh? I take off some from 20% like a point of 2 such as 19% instead of 20%.
It's not "EFFICIENT" if the customer doesn't want it that's WASTING TIME FOR ALL!
"Lazy? Far from it."
Not far from it if you are *ORDERING* for your customers. That means you are too lazy to come to their table to *ASK* them is what it means!!
"You’re…what did you say?? 38 or so? "
NO, 35. 27 not knowing as much about LIFE as *I* DO. You cannot compare the LIFE EXPERIENCE as a customer I have as you have, because you don't know much as you just have proved to me.
"(I’m certain you’re also huge if you eat out that often.)"
NO, once again I don't eat like this everyday. I am 98 and a half pounds this morning. I bet it's *YOU* that's FAT AND ARE JUST *******JEALOUS************* AREN'T YOU?
"Yes, you have failed as a woman and a human being. I am sorry for you"
YOU have failed as a decent human being. I don't feel sorry for you. YOU ARE JUST PATHETIC!!
Plus, it may be worth mentioning that there are places that I have gone to where there was an auto-grat for large parties, and in turn the wait staff saw that as a guaranteed tip and therefore treated us terribly (and ignored us). I don't at all see the explanation where serving a large group is going to prevent the server from having other tables apply here.
Living in South Florida, with a large number of European and South American tourists, it is a completely understandable policy. Because the gratuity is not customary in their home countries, many tourists will run up an enormous dinner tab and then completely stiff a wait staff whether the service is mediocre or extraordinary. In other parts of the country, maybe not so much an issue...although it makes sense with a large group of business associates or others who don't know each other well, because you might get a "Mr. Pink" in the group. (That's a Reservoir Dogs allusion, FYI.)
Because in their countries the waitstaff is probably paid a living wage.
No need for a family photo, I'm pretty sure I can guess what they look like. Let's see...from Houston, eating seafood at a place called "La Fisherman," complain about having to tip, ignored by the police...can you say black? When I was waiting tables we had several code words for a group of blacks, calling them either "turtles" or "Canadians" or something like "blacktop of five at table eight." It was common knowledge that blacks run their servers ragged getting straws for the lemonade they just made from water, sweet&low and free lemons, and then they never tip well, always finding some small complaint to justify it. Nevermind they just inhaled the entire meal, it didn't taste right after the first bite and they want their money back and maybe some gift certificates for a future visit. It's the truth and it will never be told because this post will shortly be deleted for not conforming to the "correct" worldview.
white people, natives, europeans, latinos, blacks, asians, shit all races leave bad tips. more often the bad tippers are on the low and high end of the income range. saying its just blacks is just racist
That kind of stereotyping is hideous. Unfortunately, it's absolutely true.
Oh shutty, whites are just as bad...could be some rednecks too! Blacks pay WHEN they get good service, they are not like that and since you have those preconceived ideas about blacks I cam imagine the 'lovely' service someone like you would give them!
Total B.S.! If you ever waited tables you would never say that blacks and whites tip the same, it's just not true. A black girl I work with tipped our pizza delivery driver $1 for five pizzas and then said that he was lucky because she never tips delivery drivers! This happens all the time! A waiter or delivery driver is lucky if blacks even pay their tab without running/robbing. Black teens love calling in a delivery to a "trap house" (from a cellphone) and then robbing/killing the driver for some free pizza. Truth hurts don't it blacks? Don't come on here and deny it, we all know it's true.
I don't much care for your attitude, comment or point of view. I'm not black but I am "Canadian" and I generally tip in the 20 to 25% range. A tip is for the level of service provide. If you know your getting the tip in advance the service becomes, due to human nature, much worse and you are taken for granted. Not a good situation for the #1 person in the restaurant "the Customer" plese don't forget it.
I, too, have been locked into paying a large tip, greater than 15%, even though I received far less that satisfactory service. The worse time, I happen to look into the kitchen area when the door was briefly open, only to see our waitress, plus several others, just sitting and joking around. All while we sent out entire meal without a single service check.
Since any restaurant automatically adding a "tip"–if it's not voluntary, it's not a tip–is denying me the opportunity to reward good service or punish bad service, my only option, given bad service, is to refuse to go to that restaurant again, which is exactly what I do.
So, question, restaurants: Is it worth losing the business of people like me? I tip fairly. Actually, I tip very well if the service merits it. But I'm not particularly tolerant of being told how to tip.
Anyone who'd automatically tip for crummy service or poor food is a fool. And, that old saying that a fool and his money are soon parted is obviously true for lots of the jerks voting here. I leave usually 20% or more, if the service is good. If not, you know how much I leave...2 cents. Because I intend to give a clear message about what that service was worth to me. I pay for what I get. And, I get, usually, what I pay for. Buy cheap, get cheap. But, when it comes to paying for any kind of service or labor...it better be worth it. Or, I don't pay. You people need to grow up. This restaurant should be taken to court.
"Anyone who'd automatically tip for crummy service or poor food is a fool"
I have to agree, 100%.
Crummy service deserves nothing more than a crummy tip in return. If that makes the wait staff unhappy, then possibly they need to work on their service and their attitude.
"Anyone who'd automatically tip for crummy service or poor food is a fool"
I have to agree, 100%.
Crummy service deserves nothing more than a crummy tip in return. If that makes the wait staff unhappy, then possibly they need to work on their service and their attitude.
Just another way for the lazy wait staff to get my money without doing any work.
Stewie – the Auto Gratuity goes to the restaurant – not the staff – I will tip the wait staff if the service is good – if it sucks I will not pay the gratuity – no matter what the policy is. That's why I HATE AUTO GRATUITY!
party of 5 auto tip, no – 6 to 8 OK if service is bad no
If you don't like the way a restaurant runs their business, then don't eat there. It is that simple.
i totally agree. however, the reverse side of the coin is also true...if you don't like the low wages or having to depend on customers tipping to pay your bills, then don't be a waitperson/food server. everyone knows how hard the job is and how little they are paid, so if that is a problem for you, then don't do the job. BUT if you do take on the job, then do it well and just understand that, like anything in life, you aren't going to please one hundred percent of the people one hundred percent of the time. and as a side bar, that cop that showed up to the restaurant where the people had been locked inside and not allowed to leave should have immediately arrested the manager of the restaurant. that is legally a form of kidnapping and absolutely illegal. those customers should consider bringing a suit against that restaurant. that would stop any manager in the future from ever trying such a bone headed move. and someone should give that cop some unpaid leave to contemplate his own stupidity.
Here in central Ohio, restaurants recently have been ordered to stop adding the gratuity to the tabs for large groups! I actually preferred the old way (I'm getting lazy).
Ok so some of you out there don't understand that many servers work for no salary at all or so low that taxes all but take care of everything you made. In other words unless you leave a tip we make nothing and in fact when you report your sales at the end of the day which most restaurants do these days. The government taxes 8% of those sales. Chew on that! And I know the type who are saying tipping is not mandatory or complain about the service. Bad service happens, I realize that, but servers take the brunt of everything whether it took to long for them to be seated or their dinner was cold or not ordered correctly. There are many moving parts in the restaurant but only 1 takes the fall for everything no matter what. That's ok though don't leave me a decent tip and come back to the restaurant, you'll get the special treatment. I guarantee it! Bon Appitite!
Woah daddy, it's an attitude just like yours that makes people act this way. Or else? Or else what? You'll adulterate the food in some way? Do so and risk losing your freedom, because you can be thrown into jail for it. I've worked in the food industry for a good deal of my young life, probably 12-15 years looking back on it. Here's the deal. You have a certain amount of people you serve. Out of that amount of people, there are always the 20+ percent tippers that make up for the deadbeats that don't tip. Having said that, I've had my fair share of people that simply didn't tip. These could be regular patrons too,but they just don't tip. In the scheme of things, you're ultimately there to make money for the person that owns the restaurant, and make money for yourself too. Always do your best to give a customer a great experience no matter what. You may not be putting money into your pocket with the notipper, but you're keeping the doors open another day for the ones that tip well which will ultimately come back to you anyway. But seriously, don't mess with peoples food or drinks. Not only is it poor form, but you really can get in major trouble for it and also give the owner a black eye that they may never recover from. If the tips are that bad, find another job.
tip
I understand that a lot of things are out of the wait staffs hands and I my self use to be a waiter. That being said, however, I will leave a poor tip if I get crappy service from my server specifically. Taking a long time to seat or a long time to get food or a wrong order isn't the fault of the server and I will not get angry at the server for those things. Letting my drink sit empty for an entire meal or disappearing for extended periods of time is the servers fault and the tip will reflect such. Also, a simple apology goes a long way.
We know that most waiters cheat on their taxes, you collect 18% and declare 12%, so go F yourself.
I can see an autotip on a large party where the wait staff works one table or even a separate room. But if any decent wait member can't work multiple tables of five, they should