 5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe. When Andrew Zimmern tells us we ought to try a particular food, we screw up our courage and do it. His travels as host of "Bizarre Foods" take him to some far-out places and sometimes challenging cuisine, which he always tackles with an open mind, and a wide-open mouth. Zimmern has seen it all, eaten most of it, and believes that with slight adaptation of the American palate, we can change the world. As he says, "You can change the world one plate at a time. If we can take better advantage of the global pantry and eat from a wider variety of choices we would do more to combat food poverty, our damaged food production system, obesity and other systemic health and wellness issues than any one single act I can imagine. Here are some suggestions, but be creative. It works." Five Foods That Can Change the World: Andrew Zimmern Really, any alternative hoofed protein source would be beneficial for the economy and our physical health. Venison, kudu, elk, buffalo - it's all out there waiting to get us off our addiction to feedlot beef and commodity-raised pig. Heck, I will throw rabbit in there as well, even though they have paws and not hooves." 2. Little fish Little fish with heads on are loaded with omega-3 fatty acids. Sardines and mackerel are some of the healthiest foods we can eat and contain almost 2000 milligrams of omega-3 per three-ounce portion. They don’t have lots of toxins like bigger fish. They are sustainable and quick to reproduce. This is one single act that anyone on a coast, lake, river system or pond can put into play today." 3. Your own vegetables If everyone grew what they could, supported urban farms and community gardens in cities and local CSAs, the pressure relief on our overtaxed system would be immense. The resulting dollar shift would be staggering and deliver a positive shot in the arm to local economies. Our food would also be safer. Small action here can yield tremendous impact, immediately." 4. Game birds The best way to fight flavor fatigue in your home and spread out our dining dollars is also the best way to force a return to a more healthy manner of poultry raising: just eat less of it. Adding a few meals a month from well-sourced poultry protein like duck, squab, goose, turkey, pheasant or guinea hen will not only thrill your taste buds, but ultimately create a more wallet-friendly food world as well. More sources equals more competition and supporting local poultry farms that do it the right way is better for our national system as well." 5. Offal Look, I don’t expect everyone to go crazy for pig ears, but with all the news that the processed foods that contain all the ignored parts (commercial bologna, hot dogs, sausage) limit our life expectancy and cause increases in cancer and heart disease in direct proportion to consumption, I think it's time for us to wake up and smell the coffee. The hearts of lambs and cows cook up better than commercial choice grade sirloin, and I challenge anyone to tell me differently. Tongue tastes better and has better mouth feel and cooks more consistently than any other muscle in the ‘pot roast’ comfort food category. Offal seems to be the sole province of ethnic eateries and swank gastropubs and I think it's high time we returned those ingredients to the dinner table of the American family." Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down. Previously: Chefs with Issues: Making seafood sustainability palatable |
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Not only will I NEVER eat horse or donkey or mule or any other equine.... I will also NEVER watch mr zimmerns show again or anything on any network that produces his shows. Used to be a fan but now... not so much.
I do not support this man's views at all. He shows great disrespect for animal life. There are alternative foods other than the animals he would have no trouble slaughtering.
He seems to have a lot of people who disagree with his treatment of animals on the Petition Site. Their comments are interesting and, if you love animals, upsetting:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/stop-quotbizarre-foodsquot-with-andrew-zimmern/
Here's a blog that better expresses this man's behavior toward animals. I'm dumbfounded anyone would think he's interested in "animal protection."
http://comfortablyunaware.com/blog/bizarre-foods-andrew-zimmern-and-the-head-of-an-octopus/
This blog is by Dr. Richard A. Oppenlander. His words say it so well:
"I am writing this in complete amazement, utter disbelief, and true embarrassment of how we as a society can place this person and his work in such high esteem for not merely perpetuating, but essentially sensationalizing the gruesome, medieval act of torturing, slaughtering, and eating creatures that, if they had a choice, would certainly run, fly, or swim in the other direction—away from this predator."
That's just one bit of information about Andrew Zimmern and his "protection of animals" beliefs.
Give me a break. He eats animals just like the other 7 billion people on earth do. Asians treat animals completely differently than we do in the west. I find it hilarious that on one hand, people will cry out about protecting their culture, and then on the other hand cry out for their treatment of animals, that is part of their culture. I couldn't care less about them boiling octopus alive, they boil cats alive as well and shuck their fur off their still living bodies, that to me is far, far nastier.
Other cultures may consume horses, but we as individuals or even as a culture don't have to follow other cultures. We can make up our own minds and hearts. That's not being close-minded, as some have suggested, but simply being firm in one's beliefs. Let's keep it that way.
We don't need yet another type of steak on our already over-filled plates, per this writer. Other cultures may consume horses, but we as individuals or even as a culture don't have to follow other cultures. We can make up our own minds and hearts. That's not being close-minded, as some have suggested, but simply being firm in one's beliefs. Let's keep it that way.
Agreed, everybody can make up their own minds. So lets not force our ways onto other people. If someone wants to eat a horse or donkey, and it's not doing any harm to the world, then why would anybody try to stop him/her. It's about being open-minded and accepting of people and customs that our different from ourselves and our own. That's something that A LOT of people on this forum could learn A LOT about from Andrew Zimmern. He's not speaking to people with specific moral qualms against this or that and telling those people to drop them or become like him. Anybody who knows anything about the guy knows he would never do that. He's just throwing suggestions out to every day Americans for ways in which they can broaden their horizons and their palette. And it's easy to see what the man stands for based on his suggestions like offal, wild game birds as opposed to the horrendous factory farmed chickens, small fish as opposed to many of the over-fished larger ones, and last but not least, growing your own garden. He stands for environmental and animal protection through and through. And anybody trying to paint a different picture of Zimmern just clearly doesn't get it.
No one would ever associate Andrew Zimern with "animal protection." This is the man who has eaten the beating heart of a live fish, beating frogs' hearts, and bats (threatened species in many parts of the world.). Robert, I'm sorry, but if you research Andrew Zimern and animal protection, you find absolutely nothing about his work for the cause of animal protection. Far from it, it's more about his glutenous intake of animals, and their hunting and killing.
Robert, please see my posting above. Just one quick search on animal protection and Andrew Zimmern yielded that nugget of information.
Umm, actually, to set you straight here, many people WOULD associate the man with animal protection. Just watch his show and you will probably understand. Or else, you could just, you know, take the article that this discussion is about, where every single one of his 5 suggestions is VERY much related to animal or environmental protection.
And it's common practice around the whole world to kill sea invertebrates by just boiling them. So please try to be more culturally aware Skydog. I find your posts offensive to people around the world.
I think the proof is in his own actions ... from another animal protection/welfare site talking about Zimmern eating a guinea pig:
"'It made me cry, though, and I have been in rescue for 17 years now and I’ve seen a lot',” said Judi Lainer from Metropolitan Guinea Pig Rescue. “'Mr. Zimmern obviously has no respect whatsoever for the animals he eats.'”
"Is Zimmern educating viewers about these cultures by showcasing them in this way? This is debated. Guinea pig supporter Erika Walther commented, 'What Zimmern is doing however, is not educating. He is perpetuating the polarization of cultures by engaging in these 'bizarre” eating rituals in a flamboyant and arrogant manner rather than educating the US about these people and trying to encourage us to think about the reasons behind these cultures.'"
“'Mr. Zimmern obviously has no respect whatsoever for the animals he eats.'”
Erika Walther obviously has no respect for other cultures and the people that are a part of them. It would appear that you may not either Skydog.
But anyways, back on topic. Skydog, do you disagree with Zimmern's suggestions and beliefs in the benefit to the world of getting off of the horrendous factory farmed animals, growing your own vegetables when you can, reducing waste of animals by eating more body parts (which would result in less being killed), and stopping the over-harvesting and over-fishing which as become abundant in the world and which is driving certain animals to extinction? It seems pretty CLEAR what Zimmern stands for with these suggestions. But you on the other hand Skydog, who would vehemently go against a person who stands for these ideals, I would certainly question what it is that you are really fighting for. Your accusations are pretty absurd when the proof against you is right in the article.
Educate yourself. Guinea pig was one of the first animals to EVER be domesticated for use as food. They became "pets" thousands of years later for privileged western kids.
Oh, my goodness, Robert. You find my comments offensive? I'm sorry I presented you with research/information and that upset you. Neither am I culturally unaware, and I don't appreciate being told I'm "culturally unaware." I see from your previous postings that you immediately turn to some kind insulting commentary when people disagree with you. At this point, I find you offensive too, along with your slavish devotion to Andrew Zimmern.
I didn't find your research insulting, I found your complete disregard for other cultures and customs and beliefs that differ from your own to be offensive. I found it offensive how you specifically try to portray people in ways that they openly disagree with, which is just plain deceitful.
I challenge you to find any of my posts where I just randomly sling any insult or make any offensive statements to or about any group of people. Sure, you can go ahead and accuse me of it. But I'm positive that you can't back that up. You're treating me the same way that you treat Zimmern, and the same way which you are apparently treating other cultures. You don't understand, and so instead of trying to figure the truth out of anything, you throw wild accusations out that completely misrepresent the person or culture.
I think my postings do pretty much say it all, as I am quite clear, straightforward, avoid distraction from my points with random insults, and I have been consistent. The same cannot be said for you. I'd love to hear your answer to my question, as it is quite confusing where you truly stand. You cover yourself in a veil of animal protection and the like, yet you so vehemently go against a leading man in "your" cause. It makes me question whether you really even truly believe in the protection and humane treatment of animals or not Skydog.
I think it was pretty clear what I meant already, but to avoid confusion, since one of those sentences in my post could have taken 2 entirely different literary meanings, I would just like to clarify. I would have better worded it by saying that I avoid the distraction of random insults in my posts.
Robert, I hope to conclude this conversation ... you've taken it to the level of insults/commentary on me and I don't want to further dignify your games. I think your postings pretty much say it all and there's nothing much else to be said.
Good Grief Charlie Brown. Either take the remedial reading class and understand what's being said or ....
Robert, you are well-versed in trying to turn the tables on others, using "hyperbole" (a favored word of yours) Additionally, when someone disagrees with you on this board, you bluster and become offended. Your posts have included such descriptive words and phrases toward others as "bigoted, lacking cultural awareness, delusional, hypocrite, and having tunnel vision." Let's not count "ridiculous and crazy." Let's not count "bigoted hypocrite," of course. Unfortunately, I've met people like you who become angry and indignant when others don't agree with them. There is no civil discourse with someone like you, or any who finds disagreement "offensive." I'm looking for civil discourse and I'm sorry this has taken a turn for the worst, but it has. I'm sorry if my disagreeing with you offended you or made you believe I'm ignorant about other cultures. I'm not sorry for me. I'm sorry for you, that you hide behind this facade of "if you don't play my way, I'll be mad." I wish you luck and applaud that you do seem somewhat interested, although confused, about animal protection issues. That's a start and I want to wish you well on your journey of learning. Take care and be well.
It's clear you don't know how to leave comments on these threads anymore than you know how to read. Good luck with your life. BTW, I'm not Robert.
I agree Move on...
Skydog, I have not become offended by anyone on this forum because they disagreed with me. What I have done is express strong dis-appreciation with people who have posted hateful comments or posted lies or misused information in order to deceive others in order to push a cause, whether or not that cause was just (Because even if one is doing that to push a possibly just cause, like Karin seems to have been doing, using those kinds of tactics honestly do more harm to it than good in my opinion. I know I'm not the only one. Even devout horse lovers are likely to be absolutely appalled by Karin Hauenstein and what she does. Assuming they are level headed, fair, and adept at keeping their personal bias out of their initial impressions of things.)
And I will fully admit that I have made some strong statements, but you will find that none of them was simply inflammatory. When I've used those words, they have always complied with the most objective definitions of the words. I believe when I used the phrase bigoted hypocrite or something of the like, it was in reference to a person who was touting for respect, but at the same time, condemning people to death just for being different. There's really no way around denying the truth that "bigoted hypocrite" was a quite objectively and truthfully accurate description of the person at the time. The rest of your quotes of words or phrases I have used have been in similar contexts.
I have remained completely respectful to you Skydog, as I intend to, despite the fact that you continually make baseless and disrespectful accusations of me.
Again, if you wish to continue, I'm quite curious what your answer to my question is. Note, I might not have much time to get back to you, as different aspects of my life call to me. But I will try to respond within a couple day's time.
Robert, let's part in peace, LOL. I think your heart is in the right place. These boards do get hot and I can get potty about things too. I disagreed with your beliefs about Karin the horse person, and how you handled her comments, but I'm not you. I have to remember that everyone won't respond as I would. In that, I did you a disservice and I apologize. I also prefer a really non-confrontational approach, although it may not seem like it today. But I think the subject matter is just too touchy and we could all just go around and around forever. Each of us, me included, needs to continue to learn and do our research. You resolve to keep an open mind and I will too. I think we're both getting annoyed and I'd rather just stop now before we say poopier things. How 'bout that? Let's part in peace and wish each other well. I probably won't post again due to time constraints (and that will make others happy, I'm sure, LOL), but I do wish you well and I'll take your words and thoughts to heart as I continue to mull over these topics.
Thank you for the respectful post and the probably much-needed cool-down. I'm glad to hear that one way or another, you are and will continue to critically think about the topics. I really honestly was curious about your answer to my question, but it's not particularly important, and if you come back just to read my response, but wish to stop now and choose not to further respond, I'll respect that and not badger you any further for an answer. In any case, I wish you well too Skydog! :)
Thanks, Robert, for your kind response. I'll real quick post - yes, I do agree that we should, if we eat meat, choose small-farm, rather than factory farmed animals. I do agree with that section of his article. However, he doesn't mention the cruelty of factory-farmed meat or compassion as a reason not to choose them. He may indeed feel that way, but he doesn't mention it. I've not seen him exactly rallying for the cause of animal welfare (considering his behavior on his show and gluttonous consumption of all things living, LOL), but the end result of doing what he says - choosing farm markets, etc. means we don't patronize factory farms. I'm fine with people eating all body parts if they choose to eat meat. I'm against cultures or anyone who kills an animal simply for one body part that might be considered a delicacy. (I'm not saying he condones that.) I hope that helps answer your question. I still don't see Andrew Zimmern as a champion of animal rights, but in the sense that he's trying to steer us away from factory farms, one could argue that indirectly, he is, in this case, moving the cause of animal rights forward. But only on this case :). Hope that helps. Take care.
Move On, I don't think Robert would be offensive enough to assume other names and attack that way, but you sure sound like another poster called Practically Raving, who also loves to use "remedial reading" as part of her/his insults. Or maybe ... "great minds" think alike! So to speak (giggle).
I wonder why this writer assumes we'd be any crazier about eating donkey than horse? Most Americans just don't consider equines as food animals. Additionally, one thing we obese Americans (and I include myself in that assessment, LOL) don't need is even more food on our plate. And he even mentions how donkey muscles can be proportioned larger for a larger steak? Ugh. He comes across like a greedy over-eater, careless of what he hurts/maims/kills to satisfy his over-sized appetite.
Yummy, yummy, yummy! I've got horse in my tummy!
Posting from Canada today, where horse is on the menu all over the place. My favorite so far: a combo of duck leg confit served with a horse tenderloin filet, called the 'Quack and Track'. Heavenly.
Please consider staying there.
SixDegrees, so proud of you that you've learned to cut and paste, since your comment also appears below. We get that you're in Canada, thanks, really.
well I can honestly say after reading all of this, I am going to stop eating all meat products what-so-ever.. I think a good solution to the mass murdering of all animals in the U.S. would be everyone get a gun license, and wander out in the woods and hunt and kill their own food, one animal at a time, eat it, use it's fur for warm, use everything, like they did wayyyyyy back before there were time clocks and calenders... no one ever died from eating deer that were killed by a bullet, why would killing any other animal one by one off a free range land where it lived a happy life doing all it wanted, eating green grass under the sun and shade, wandering free, playing with it's own kind, killed in an instant, no fear, no machines, no blood stained floors, or torture devices, the world can't be perfect all the time, but it could be better
You do realize that with the current world population, by not breeding animals for the purpose of consumption and instead just going out and hunting the animals, practically everything would probably be extinct right now right? At the very least, animals like cows, goats, sheep, pigs, horses, and chickens would probably all be extinct. So unless you want species after species around the world to all go extinct, or else billions of people of the world to die of starvation, I'm pretty sure the current practices are much better and more sustainable than your alternative.
I'm glad to hear that you're thinking critically of how things are. It's important for people to do that, or else positive change would never happen. But your rather extreme solution would be nothing but destructive to the world.
Meh. Never really cared for horses, so yeah, I could totally see eating them.
Oh great , this "incredibly positive" poster again.
Oh, gad, I know. Thought the same thing, LOL!
Us Americans take EVERYTHING for granted....that is why I am so happy I have experienced many things. My mom is Filipina and dad is American & being in the Philippines as a teenager was so rewarding and eye-opening. I lived just as they did-bamboo house, dirt floor, went to the market EVERYDAY for just about every meal. (Even used the bathroom as they do-picture "Slumdog Millionaire") But ate as they ate also. I could live off rice and vegetables! & yes, horse!!! Even dog!!! (sorry all you animal activists, but for some parts of the world, this is called surviving)....most Asians are lean and live longer than us here in the US....
row9502, good you experienced other cultures. Please read all the postings about humane slaughter, or rather the no-way-to-be humane slaughter for horses postings. It will open your eyes even more. It's good to be open to new things in other ways too, other than food. And here's one thing: we don't live in Asia. I'm not saying that people in Asia are wrong, but we don't necessarily have to eat as they do. That doesn't make us close-minded, but capable of making informed choices. It's being open-minded, in another way.
Do you still eat dog and horse meat? You don't have to if you live in America. If so where do you live so I can watch my dogs bette.
Can't we all just get along? If that Karin broad don't watch her mouth,we are gonna swat her face with our tails.
Horses are agressive and ugly creatures. May as well go ahead and eat them.
Aggressive ?? Horses are not in anyway agressive, maybe the few that are messed up by humans but thats it. Horses are not food, just the same as dogs & cats aren't. Simple as that.
A horse tried to bite me once. And horses most certainly are food in most of the world. So are dogs and cats, but not so much as horses.
Yummy, yummy, yummy! I've got horse in my tummy!!
Posting from Canada today, where horse is on the menu all over the place. My favorite so far: a combo of duck leg confit served with a horse tenderloin filet, called the 'Quack and Track'. Heavenly.
None of you people know what you are talking about. Horse sounds delicious and I would love to try it.
I vote for CANNIBALISM ! Yes, that's right... Mankind today needs to be needs to be more humane, nay, more HUMAN ! And since you ARE WHAT YOU EAT.... this would give NEW MEANING to American food, Mexican food, Chinese food (ooh, a PLENTIFUL food sourse)... With all the anger, hate, greed, and bigotry in our modern world, a little more HUMANITY in our diet is JUST what the DOCTOR ORDERED ! Boy, this discussion will turn ANYONE into a VEGAN !
Oh, BTW... if my cannibalism comment seems too sick (and it IS)... rent the 1973 classic movie "SOYLENT GREEN" with Charlton Heston. It takes place in 2022, and is starting to look more and more prophetic.... read more at Wikipedia or IMDB ... "In 2022, Earth is overpopulated and totally polluted; the natural resources have been exhausted and the nourishment of the population is provided by Soylent Industries, a food made by "plankton" from the oceans..." (or NOT plankton)...
I happen to know for a fact that the Obama administration is working on a very similar plan to this.
No one is asking you to eat your horse if you don't want to. If people want to eat horses, cats, dogs, turkeys let em. I don't understand why some of you are so hung up on the drugs horses get throughout their lives. Have you ever looked through a Jeffer's Catalog and seen the medicines and treatments available to all livestock? I'm willing to bet that horses are less medicated than any other livestock that we eat!
Really Now, you should read some of the postings. I think the point is, horses can't be slaughtered in a way that doesn't cause them more distress than necessary before death. Also, some points were also made about how horses synthesize the chemicals we give them, and, also, the chemical (bad for us) reaction that occurs when they are slaughtered. I'd recommend reading some of the postings - there's plenty of information better spelled out than I can do here. I don't think being worried about the death of an intelligent creature - that it not be a terrible, painful process - is, as you put it "being hung up on horses." It's just not as easy, if you have a modicum of conscience, to suggest people eat dog, horse, whatever. It's not a pretty, neat package as the article's writer suggests.
If you love animals called pets, why do you eat animals called dinner?
If you love animals so much, why are you eating their food?
OMG This man sounds like a glutton that eats anything put in front of him, he also looks like it. To listen to a man who eats our pets about horse slaughter is ridiculous. I hate it when an idiot happens upon getting a tv show, which I watched once and got sick to my stomach as he shoveled something grotesque down his gullet, as an intelligent person is just as ridiculous. Next we will be getting etiquette pointers from those idiots on practical jokers. We don't eat horsemeat here because sorry but this nation is starving enough to look at our pets and see roasts. Chinese are trying to stop the old habit of eating cats and dogs. There are meats that just aren't good for you, in fact most of our meat is not good for us anymore. We had a thing on the farm called "Fear Meat". You kill fast to not let the animal become afraid and release a hormone into it's meat. The Horses fill fear from the first moment. Horses and burros are much more sensitive to their surroundings than cattle. You are a glutton and I rank you up there with rush lumbaugh.
Sorry that's "Our country ISN'T starving enough..."
I had some horse meat once, thought it was great, told one of my friends who got all upset with me....I said, what's the big deal? She said, "You don't eat your friends." Fair enough.
Karin is right, I have done the research and she is right on. Commercial horse slaughter is never humane. Horses are not food animals, go read the bible. God did not intend for them to be food. We train them to trust us and obey. They are the most forgiving animal on the planet. They are so sensitive the can feel 7 times more than us. What a betrayal for their end in life.
Well done, Karin. Well done.
Quite the lively little discussion here. I my opinion, Mr. Z doesn't deserve this much attention, and this article really should have been dismissed as nothing less than a ratings ploy
But, be that as it may, I have to weigh in on the equid meat aspect. There have been a few who have suggested raising equids commercially, solely for meat production. Not feasible. It takes approximately 4 years to raise a horse to slaughter weight – twice the length of time it takes for beef. In the meantime, you have to feed it and muck out stalls or pens.
Then there's the issue of medications. Horses are notorious for carrying parasites, including Trichinella spiralis..hence, the reason horse people worm them on a very regular schedule. Current worming drugs are not suitable for human consumption, or some other animals. The pet food industry does not use horse meat and hasn't since some time in the early 70s when someone finally figured out why countless dogs were dying...ivermectin, one of the drugs of choice for horse wormers, is deadly to a few breeds of dogs, most notably, collies. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if dogs can die from eating meat from horses that have been treated with a certain drug, that these medications and others do accumulate in the tissues of horses and can be passed on to consumers. Phenylbutazone (bute), is banned by the FDA for human use, even though it was initially developed for use in humans. The EU, the largest market for horse meat, strictly bans bute (and a whole list of other veterinary drugs) from the food chain. Any horse given bute at ANY time in its life is ineligible for slaughter for human consumption. A very recent inspection study of horse meat in England (where slaughter is legal according to EU rules), found more than a trace amount of bute in chilled horse meat. Needless to say, that even with the strict passport system used in the EU to identify slaughter eligible and non-eligible equids, there is still the possibility of contamination. The biggest concern for health professionals regarding bute in meat, is the possibility of a child developing aplastic anemia, a condition where bone marrow does not produce sufficient new cells to replenish blood cells. If horses are left untreated, there is the real risk of trichinosis from eating raw horse meat, which is considered a delicacy. There have been reported cases of this condition in France and Northern Africa, traced directly back to horse meat originating in North America.
Aside from the economic and health problems associated with eating horse or donkey meat (or any other equid for that matter), I have a real problem as an American taxpayer, with supporting an industry that doesn't benefit the American consumer. Culturally, Americans do not eat horses. There is no real market for it in the US and I do not want to be forced to pay for inspecting the safety of meat whose only destination is foreign. The USDA has enough trouble as it is, trying to keep the current food chain safe, and with the current slashes to the USDA budget,it doesn't make sense to stretch further over stretched resources for the sole benefit of a handful of Americans (those who have ownership in horse abattoirs) and a purely foreign market. If other people in other countries want to eat horses, then let them bear the full social and economic burden of supplying the market.
Finally, I have researched the subject well enough to come to the conclusion that there is no commercially viable method for slaughtering horses. Even Temple Grandin, the recognized expert in killing food animals, hasn't been able to design a system despite having studied it for decades. Horses and other equids aren't designed for commercial slaughter techniques and it's just not fair or humane to subject them to such a cruel process when there are enough other meat sources in the US. If you want to try horse meat, slaughter your own horse yourself, or cross either our North or South border, or travel to Europe, Japan, or Central Asia.
Very well stated, Thank you
That sums it up nicely. Let the horse eating countries raise their own and stop burdening American taxpayers. I agree this guy is only stating what he is to stir pots and get attention. If one isn't worthy of fame, one can try infamy instead.
Looks like the good Mr. Zimmern eats about everything that passes in front of his eyes.
Interesting stuff!
I like Zimmern and I have heard that horse makes for a good meal. Maybe worth a try!
Personally, I think there are enough other things to eat without resorting to eating horses.
Of course, you will eat anything ...I do know that.
I suppose if times got tough and starvation was on the horizon, I might eat horse meat or dog meat. But in this day and age horses and dogs do not have to be slaughtered for the purpose of eating them. Actually people probably eat too much red meat, and I am not at all sure the slaughtered horses have meat that is safe to eat considering the possibility of the presence of residual pheylbutazone and adrenal stress hormones.
You are likely being paid to promote the slaughter of horses, so I do not think I will trust anything you say to rebuff my opinion. Businessmen and women want to make money slaughtering horses..."Follow the money honey".
Carol
Ahem, our donkeys and horses in America are not global foods. Want to talk slaughter houses? well, let's open up one that serves up human. Unethical? You wouldn't know the meaning of the word. Have you ever tried HUMAN FLESH??
I hear its a delicacy. You want to eat your pets keep it away from us. You stink.
Bo Derrick speaks out about this issue. This is the process Mr. Zimmern is promoting in this article.
OHHH-MYYYY-GAAWD! Why didn't you just say like that Bo Derrick like was behind this cause like!? I totally get it now! Like I am going to the mall in my pink Escalade to tell allll my BFF's about this.
I posted this because about a 1/4 way through the video is footage of what commonly happens in the kill box. You see how the horse pulses and struggles. That is plain evidence their endocrine system is delivering large amounts of adrenaline and cortisol throughout the flesh of the soon-to-be-harvested animal. Any good hunter who watches footage of a head-shot horse knows innately what I am talking about. This isn't rocket science. Anyone who has the courage to watch what really happens in Commercial Horse $laughter can understand easily that the kill process is flawed and the meat is bad.
Karin, good comments you do have backup here...You have them on every comment...
the kill process may very well be bad and the meat may vey well be flawed, and it probably is important to get attention on the issue. But telling people that that encompasses every single possibility (when there are infinite possibilities) for horse slaughter is just ludicrous and it's a dirty lie.
I see you've done some more insult-slinging, and name calling Karin. That's quite unfortunate. It's unfortunate that you feel the need to try to control people with your lies and deception in order to push a cause. But as I have said, right now, you Karin, are doing more to hurt horses than ANYONE in this forum. When intelligent people are present, you can never do good to support something when you ooze out hatred, intolerance, and bigotry in every single post you make. Not to mention all the transparent lies that you tell.
And no, Andrew Zimmern has not posted any support for anything in the video. You know NOTHING about that man, about me, or about anyone else on this forum. Please stop shoveling out lies and deception. Hell, for the sake of the horses. Think about them before you make your posts. You are only hurting them Karin.
Are you kidding? She's been one of the few people who's actually backed up her claims with more information. And no, this is not Karin :). But, truly, all of her information has been helpful and in-depth, and I don't find her claims unproven. She's provoked a lot of thought and discussion, and while her postings are prolific (and long), she's been smart enough to show and explain her position. I think she bested a lot of the folks on this comments board.
See my other post. I disagree - I don't think she's done anything to "hurt horses." In fact, she's provided information to back up her claims. Nothing wrong with that at all, and I appreciate the information.
You are the one who continues with insults. And you make absolutely baseless statements proving your ignorance of this entire subject. "Infinite possibilities"??? What planet are you from?
I provide documentation and proof that everyone can easily understand about what I and many other people are saying about this cruel, unnecessary and poisonous "industry." Do you have any comments that are not inflammatory and provide any kind of factual representation whatsoever?
Karin, I agree. I don't think Robert is adding anything to the discussion, other than pointing fingers at you. I think when people are bested in disagreements, they tend to start pointing and trying to "insult." Robert, I think she's provided plenty of proof - I know you're trying to be courteous, because I see other areas where you're trying to encourage people to be courteous, but I think in this case, you're off the mark. Part of the problem is, it's an issue that everyone is passionate about and things get heated ... and it's hard to convey emotions via post other than with broad term declarations and exclamation points. But I do think she's made her point and given plenty of backup information. Best to just let it go - you learned some information, Karin has learned the ways in which you disagree with her and how you feel - and that's what we come to these postings for. She's done her homework, and presented it. There's not much more one can say.
Again, Karin, I welcome you to point out any single instance of me slinging insults in this forum. The truth of the matter is that I have not. Not once. So again, you are lying. Regarding infinite possibilities, and what planet I am from, my response to you is Earth, a planet of logic and reason. If somebody were to ask, "how can one kill a horse?". There is an INFINITE list of possible methods that he/she could use. That is an INARGUABLE FACT.
To Hey, thank you for being moderately respectful despite your disagreeance. It is true that Karin has somewhat backed up some of her claims. But the other side of the truth is that none of her backed-up claims have any relevance whatsoever to the disagreements that I and others have with her. And she continually tries to use them as proof, but there is just no link, and because of that, she is just lying to all of us. I believe all living creatures deserve to have their rights fought for an protected, including horses. And it's good that there are dissenting opinions on both sides, people standing up for them and everything. But honestly, I really believe Karin has done more harm to horses in this forum than ANY of the other posters because of the nasty and harmful tactics that she uses to try to fight for them.
Robert, darn if we aren't all highly impressed with your high education and your lengthy travels around the world. You are one heck of a wonderful person and should be elevated to a golden podium where you can wear a crown and demean us all from your lofty perch. However you are so misinformed and yes we do still use the phrase 'third world country'. That is what America is quickly becoming because idiots like you choose to change the words instead of change the cause of the problem.
Horse take a lot of food and you can't just feed them crap because they have to have better food than cows. It takes at least 3 to 4 years to get a horse raised so there would be enough meat to viably slaughter. The medications we give in America are highly toxic to humans and canines. This stays in the fat and bones of the horses and if you ever ate horse in Mexico I'd suggest you start on golden seal and then go right for anything that cleans out the liver and pray a lot. Now knowing that you are very educated but obviously haven't the foggiest idea as to how to research both "sides" and only researching the pro slaughter side which, by the way, are about 85% lies and misinformation. They change their arguments almost as fast as mr zimmerman changes his underwear. (or zimmern) Don't watch the eejit, did once and about threw up. Cows have 4 stomachs. They have a different metabolism because they are a different species than a horse. They process things better and clean their food up. They also eat silage which is rotten feed, mostly consisting of wheat stalks, corn stalks or anything the farmer throws in there to ferment for winter feed. Horses would die after one meal of this. There is a reason God told the Jews to only eat hoofed animals that chew their cud. It is cleaned meat. The fact is that beef is cheaper and easier to raise. Here we have open range and the cattle just roam from one piece of land to the other. We have a "fence out" law. Don't want em on your property fence em out. They roam around here all summer then some one comes and picks them up and takes them to auction. You can't do that with horses. They are a more sensitive and higher reasoning abilities than cattle. No amount of high flaunting attitude you try to display you come off as an idiot. You are regurgitating words that I hear from the pro slaughter people all the time. However You actually can spell and use good grammar so maybe you should approach ol slaughterhouse sue and see if you can speak for them. The ones they have are all ignorant jack asses that can't put a pronoun, verb or noun together correctly in the same sentence and totally ignore spell check.
Thanks for this video with Bo Derek. I had not seen it, but was aware of her involvement. It is beautiful and well done.
Karen, you obviously know nothing, have nothing to back up your wild claims and are only trying to troll. Let it go already.
Hi Robert! How are you doing?
Haha, Karin! I wondered if that was that person too. I appreciate your postings and have learned so much from them as I'm reading them this morning. It's a shame that the people who are so scornful about others not being open-minded are so close-minded about this information you're posting. Anyway, you go, girl!! Proud of you!
"In his recent article, Josh Ozersky makes the ill-conceived argument that Americans should consider eating horse meat. He mistakenly suggests that horses can be slaughtered humanely, but horse slaughter is inherently cruel and inhumane. Horses’ instinctual flight response makes them ill-suited for stunning, so they often endure repeated blows and sometimes remain conscious during their dismemberment. U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors have, in the past, discovered violations and cruelty in horse slaughter plants.
Furthermore, horse meat is not safe for human consumption. Horses are not raised as food animals and aren’t monitored in the same way as animals that are raised for consumption. Horses are frequently administered drugs that are prohibited by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and would be extremely harmful to humans if ingested. Horses deserve a more dignified end than to be inhumanely slaughtered and served at mealtime."
Nancy Perry, Senior Vice President of Government Relations, American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, NEW YORK CITY
Google "Commercial Horse Slaughter" and learn the facts for yourself before you eat the tainted meat of head-shot horses or donkeys.
We get it Karen, we get it. You have posted this how many times now? No need for the long face, no one here is going to shoot a horse. Move along now little doogie.
Do you really? or are you possibly in denial and don't want to hear the truth about what you may put in your body on a daily basis?
When you trust an industry that cannot be trusted with your life and then have a man who claims to be an authority pushing a "practice" that will cause horrible outcomes because he did no research before he made his statements, I find that offensive.
I will gladly post many pages of research and testimony before U.S. Congress right here so you can see, because it seems that the only thing you can really do in discussion of this is try to demean me on a personal level, and therefore, you need to be convinced.
Mr. Zimmern should not have posted his #1 recommendation to eat Commercially Slaughtered Horse Meat without thinking about the health implications it could cause. That is dangerous, as dangerous as contracting Colon Cancer. How many people do you know who eat beef are suffering from Cancer?
How many people do you know who eat beef are suffering from Cancer?
Reply: No one.
You are rare, because 1 in 20 Americans will develop colorectal cancer in their lifetime. It is the second leading cause of cancer-related deaths in the United States and since the beginning of this year we have over 143,000 new cases.
Karen,just saw the picture of you and the horses walking in traffic. Do you shoe the horses yourself with Air Jordan horse shoes, and how many cases of Twinkie's have you put onto the pack horse?
"or are you possibly in denial and don't want to hear the truth about what you may put in your body on a daily basis?"
Reply: Not in denial, and I don't put horse in my body on a daily basis, beef either. And if I wanted to know about the "truth", I would do my own research. This is a food blog, and as such, I enjoy reading about food related articles.
EasyCare's Easyboots sponsors me. I use boots similar to those used by many Police Mounted Units today. My possessions and gear is carried by my packhorse.
Mr. Ed, Karin has a right to post whatever she wants to. At least she posts information to back up what she's saying, instead of just blurting out insults ... kind of like you just did ...
I see no where that I implied an insult, I was simply answering her question to me. As well, I see no where in the article where Mr. Z advocated eating commercially slaughtered horse meat as she has claimed. She can write what she wants, doesn't affect me, but I don't appreciate the preaching and ranting about a subject. Seems useless and distracts from the food related article.
Get 'em, girl & Karin are still going thru their remedial reading classes, Mr. Ed. Since they both seem to misunderstand the the same way, I'm pretty sure they are one and the same person.
Practically Raving (an apt screen name for you) ... I'm not Karin. I'm another poster. Your insult was pretty rude. But many of your posts are too.
Insult – Speak to or treat with disrespect or scornful abuse.
Rude – discourteous; impolite; ill-mannered
So what if PR was insulting or rude? Pointing that out isn't going to change them, is it?
Because of what I have learned over the course of my studying this issue intensely. I no longer eat any commercially slaughtered meats at all. I am still a meat eater, but unfortunately because of accessibility I'm forced to consume only meat that is taken by a hand I know personally. I will eat certain hunters' kills, who I know and respect. I will eat the organically raised and humanely (Kosher method) killed animals that come from some of my friends sustainable farms on the West and East Coast. I am not a Vegan, nor am I a Vegetarian. I am experiencing success in bringing this issue, of Adrenaline and Cortisol which are Cancer causing, naturally occurring hormones and steroids found in beef and more so in Commercially $laughtered Horse Meat, to the public's attention.
This is a Human Health Issue, caused by the inhumane and downright wrong way the Commercial Horse $laughter Industry operates. Head-shooting equines (and bovines) and expecting them to produce healthful, harvest-able meat is a pipe dream.
Why doesn't the USDA test for the levels of Adrenaline and Cortisol in Commercially $laughtered Horse Meat? They do in beef. They are required to by law. Since Horses produce more adrenaline per pound than any other animal, you would think this makes sense. Logically, scientifically, they should be testing the meat. Yet, they test for NOTHING... Hmmm...
Here's the exclusive, front-page article on me, published on 2/14/2012 in the Los Angeles Times: http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/14/local/la-me-adv-horse-ride-20120214/2
Mr. Disrespectful Robert, let's hear your juvenile musings on this. :0)
You both need to let this go. It's like you're beating a dead horse or something.
This Robert person keeps attacking me, lying about me and what I've said. People who are offended should encourage him to grow up.
Karin – You are obviously passionate about this subject, but really, take it easy there girl. No need for a long face, lighten up a little.
You've beaten this to the point that your comments look manic. It doesn't matter what either of you have done. Robert's poking your proverbial bear and you keep enabling him. You're not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours. The answer is to let it go and move on.
Or, it could be she's just trying to provide us with some information. I appreciate her postings. If they offend you so much that you have to resort to petty insults, drop off the comments board, for heaven's sake. Nobody's forcing you to read them.
You read into my comment that I was offended? Wow. How's that remedial reading comprehension class coming along?
Oh, by all means, I don't expect to change her mind. Her mind is obviously quite settled already. I'm just trying to spread openness and tolerance of those who are different, and promote the coming out of the truth. Unfortunately, Karin has chosen to try to battle me on all 3 of those fronts in this discussion board. Karin may think whatever bigoted lies she likes, but I'd like to do my part in quelling the spread of those lies and that hatred onto other people. Makes me feel like I can sleep better at night by doing so.
And how's that anger management course doing for you? Not too well, I guess.
You & "Karin" are the only ones who seem angry. Have an ice day, honey.
You too, sweetheart. And here's the thing ... you can actually exercise your right not to read the comments board. Go for it and happy Friday, honey bunny!
If it bothers you so much that you need to keep coming after me for something you imagine is going on, please feel free to seek help.
I believe her clutch is slipping.
You aren't even who you claim to be, so whose "clutch is slipping..." :0)
I'm a Corvette lover myself.
I am positive that is Lee Iacocca and I have a Corvair to sell you. It's an automatic.
Cuts both ways, toots.
Karin calling me disrespectful or juvenile is like the pot calling the kettle black. And the thing that's most interesting about it is that in this case, I am not even a kettle. Maybe a bowl made out of red clay. But not a black [using the color black as a metaphor for evil doings (eg. the blatant disrespect that Karin has shown to me and everybody else on this forum)] kettle or anything of the like. When it comes down to it, Karin has told lie after lie, and when people have called her out on her lies, she has resorted to insults because there is just nothing supporting her claims. She is also quite delusional because she seems to believe that everybody disagreeing with her is the same person. She fails to realize just how ridiculous she is making herself out to be with all of her crazy and untrue propaganda that she shovels out. It's no surprise that I'm not the only one who can see through her bogus "facts", as they are really not all that hard to see through to be quite honest.
No, we should not be eating donkey meat, neither horse. We should be restoring these animals to their rightful freedom in North America where their evolutionary origin is and where they, as a non-ruminant herbivore, have so much to offer in the way of soil building and seed dispersal, because their feces are less degraded. If there's predation to take place, leave that to the restored wolves. Mankind should not continue to eat up all of life but should become vegetarian wherever possible and to a much greater degree. We must not allow gut appetites to prevail over higher conscience in relation to the whole of life!
Thank you for sharing with us about eating different meat types. I see the animal rights folk have just had an emotionally ranting hay day over this topic... but I say, if it's good meat.... EAT IT!
The Tofurkey Folks are really criminalizing any meat producing industry they can in hopes we will all become vegan... NO THANKS. At the end of the day, the only people they will hurt are the city folk when the food runs out... and all the farmers and ranchers will be sitting back, eating steak and laughing.....
I say, give them a taste of what they want and lock them all out and see what the American population thinks when they can't get staples to their diet.
I don't think anyone's criminalizing the meat industry willy-nilly, and for fun, Fred. I think a lot of people just hope to affect the mass slaughter big agri-business industry. I won't repeat all the info (others are more articulate it better), but the plants are a cruel mess to the animals processed through. I think people will always eat meat, but we could certainly eat less and learn to slaughter quickly and effectively to eliminate the animals' fear/pain.
So, I have to admit the responses to this article intrigue me. For those who are neither vegetarian or vegan, can you please tell me which animal protein sources you believe are an ethical choice? I am not about to quibble with those who disagree with eating donkey, horses, dogs and cats because while I may not necessarily wholly agree with the basic premise of this, I respect your opinion. Thankfully we live in a country where this is not a cultural norm nor necessity for you to HAVE to abstain.
Again, I welcome civil discourse for those willing to share what animals are, in his/her opinion "OK" to eat and how to best go about dispatching said animal for it's meat.
I eat eggs from a local farmer's chickens. He doesn't sell or eat the chickens; they produce eggs and then live into their dotage :). Some people will trounce me for this, but I also eat fish. It works. I grew up on a farm and well, kind of saw the intelligence of creatures like cows, pigs, and chickens. It just doesn't feel right for me personally to eat them. But I'm realistic and just ask that people be cognizant of where their meat sources come from.
Oh, sorry, "another thought," I replied to you below. Meant to put it as a reply. And to say, if you do eat meat or feel that you can't do without it and aren't satisfied with eggs, you can interview local farmers and ensure that you pick one that slaughters quickly and efficiently, and also, compassionately raises his/her animals. I shudder saying that, because I can't do it, but I'm trying to be a realist. Not everyone wants to go vegan or vegetarian. It's a discipline for some, easier for others. I do disagree with the author of this article - we eat enough meat and don't necessarily need to explore the joys of eating even more meat of more types. Not bashing other cultures for what they do, but from my readings and reading postings here, it's not advisable in terms of health and compassion to eat equines. Plus, it just seems kinda piggy (forgive the expression) to just consume and consume everything animal on the planet.
Sorry, ignore my musings about my postings and my inability to realize where they appear in response to your posting. LOL, if only I could post decently!
Thanks for your thoughtful response Hereyago. I do try and eat locally, eat organically, and eat foods that are considered "humanely" tended both meats and veggies (I think many people should be ashamed at how their veggies are grown and harvested but that's another story for another board) as much as possible. I grew up in an area of fishermen and my husband grew up on a small farm where they raised the majority of their meat and vegetables. Most of the people that I know that are successfully making a living in the fishing industry and gardeners are also some of the biggest advocates for respecting the environment.
The one thing that I would maybe draw your attention to and again and therefore invite your thoughts would be his basic premise of expanding our palate rather than simply introducing more. At least that's what I got out of the article. I believe Mr. Zimmern was saying that by expanding what we consider as meat sources we can effect change in being more humane with our treatment of animals people chose to eat, how their dispatched and in a the macrocosm we will also positively effect nature as it would change our tendencies to over-fish, over-harvest, and over-butcher and as you so accurately put it, "consume consume consume!" I also believe what he was saying was that by expanding the palate of those who do consume meat, we will lessen the amount of waste of any animal who is butchered for food.
Again, I thank you for your respectful and thoughtful answers! (and I also find it somewhat confusing that when "replying" to someone on this board you get sent to the bottom and hope that it gets placed correctly! ;)
Thanks, "another thought" for your postings, too. One issue that worries me about expanding our palates (except in the case of vegetables and fruits) is that we've totally messed up the system for just simply eating cattle, pigs, and poultry. If we were to expand to other animals ... woe betide those poor creatures, because we'd figure out a way to plump them up artificially, give them antibiotics, confine them, and whatever else that would make their lives miserable - I'm talking farming on a large scale, of course. And when you look at the arguments against eating equines - well, to me, they're pretty persuasive. I think there's expanding our palates, versus being greedy little buggers want something NEW on their plates. But that's a good point about over-harvesting fish. I believe fish and other sea creatures are the only ones we over-harvest, correct? I think the better option is to further tone down our appetites; to make thoughtful decisions about sea harvest, etc. I don't have all the answers, unfortunately, but I appreciate the point you're making and I agree with you about how we raise vegetables too. Talk about another example of how we mess things up when it gets beyond the small farm scale, yike! Thanks again very much for your thoughts.
Another Thought, I tried to post back, but my comments disappeared, LOL. Thanks for your posting – basically, I said that I fear expansion of our palates because we seem to have mucked up just handling the raising and slaughtering of cows, pigs, and poultry (in the scheme of mass farming industry). I fear that we'd take yet another set of animals and plump them up artificially, fill them with antibiotics, and generally make their lives miserable. Yes, I agree with you about vegetables – something else we've totally messed up. We just don't seem to be able to do this right, do we ? Re over-harvesting – I believe that's for sea creatures, correct? I don't see that we'll ever have a problem with over-harvesting conventional meat animals. I think the solution for sea over-harvesting is to just try to cut back, to be less greedy about our appetites. And reading the postings about eating equines ... well, I'm persuaded that that's not the route to go. Anyway, thanks so much for your posting and I'm sorry this is a rush posting. My original response, which may appear eventually, was a little better thought out, LOL.
"Compassionate" or "Humane" Slaughter of Horses DOES NOT EXIST. The only way to kill a horse humanely is with Chemical Euthanasia and the meat cannot be harvested. As it is now in Canada and Mexico, they are shooting horses in the head and ensuring that all of the adrenaline and cortisol in these animals is flushed throughout the meat before harvest. They just don't care that the consumers don't know this. Consumers like Andrew Zimmern. He should get a body scan to detect early stages of Cancer.
I won't pretend to know about every single fact about the rest of this post, but quite frankly, it's irrelevant. Because the very first sentence is a complete and utter lie and is false to the core. She is willing to lie to people in order to push an agenda. Please people, do the research yourself, research horses, research horse slaughter, research commercial horse slaughter, just find some reliable information. Please just don't be fooled by this poster because she is feeding lies to all of us.
Karin, if you really are truly not intentionally lying and are instead just delusional, then I'm doing you a favor anyway because I'm telling people to do the research, which, IF you were telling the truth, would support you.
Robert-YOU ARE THE LIAR. Anyone who reads your posts can tell that you are the one who is biased.
We can continue with this, because I haven't just devoted 2 years of my life to studying Commercial Horse Slaughter and ALL forms of slaughter on the face of the Earth, to be run off by some idiot.
If anyone wants to know the truth, all they have to do is GOOGLE "Commercial Horse Slaughter" and they will LEARN FOR THEMSELVES. I encourage everyone who reads these posts to do so.
It is a fact that head-shooting horses is not humane. They suffer greatly and are rarely put unconscious by the .22 shell.
Have you done ANY research on this subject at all? You just like to call me a liar because you have no legitimate response. Mr. Zimmern started this with his very pointed statements in this article. It is obvious to me that he has done no research himself and is trusting the Commercial Horse $laughter establishment, as they are betting on. At this point though, I'm suspecting that he's probably being compensated for his "point of view." I would like to know the truth about that.
Robert, have you ever ridden a horse? Have you ever hunted? What can YOU tell us about the facts behind Commercial Horse $laughter?
I agree, I would be happy if people were to google commercial horse slaughter. It'd be great for people to see the truth of what's going on and what they can do to help.
I'm not an expert on current commercial horse slaughter practices, but if they are as bad as you say, I'd totally support trying to make them better, more humane, and safer.
The thing is, we're arguing apples and carrots. Anything that you have said that has been factual (like I assume your information on head-shot horses has been) has been irrelevant and not even part of the discussion. On the other hand, anything you've said that has been relevant (like when you say that there is no possible way whatsoever to slaughter a horse humanely that is safe for consumption), has been completely untrue and quite simply, baseless lies.
And again, I will point out, that because of your obvious lies and deceit (the deceit I'm referring to also covers your irrelevant facts because you are trying to use them to prove points that they do not apply to, which is quite deceitful, plain an simple), and also because of your constant badgering, insult-throwing, and overall childishness in your responses, I would go as far as to say that you have probably done MORE harm to horses in this forum than ANY other poster. And it's quite unfortunate. It's unfortunate for the horses in my opinion that somebody with as much passion as you to protect them (a valiant intention indeed), uses such dirty tactics so that you are instead doing them so much harm. I feel compassion and love for horses as much as any other animal, and for the sake of them, I am politely asking you to either adopt better, more respectful tactics to protect them (without all the distraction that your lies and hatefulness have caused) or else, if you cannot do that for whatever reason, then for the sake of the well-being of horses across the world, please stop talking about them for God's sake!
Please get this through your head Karin, your current behavior is HARMING HORSES. You are NOT helping them. So think about the horses before you continue doing what you are doing, or else you can only blame YOURSELF for anything inhumane that is happening to them.
Robert, I would really like to know what your background and credentials are that make you so much more knowledgeable than Karen. I don't know either of you, but your attacks on her are quite vicious, and I haven't heard why you are so sure you are right, and she is wrong. She isn't attacking you (unless you're a horse slaughterer); she's demonstrating that the process is inhumane. Why don't you stop attacking an individual, and instead demonstrate how humane it is, and how you know this to be true. You will be much more influential that way.
I have no attacked Karin in any way in my posts. If you read our posts back and forth, you will see quite clearly that it is she that has attacked not just me, but almost anyone else who has disagreed with her. And because of her lies and deception, she has also basically attacked the minds of every single person reading this forum.
It's unfortunate if you truly have read all the discussion here and you still are so ingrained in your statements. I've done what I could on this forum to spread openness, tolerance of those who are different, and last but not least, KNOWLEDGE on this forum. But of course, I can not get through to everybody. Those who are so extremely biased who will not even read the discussion, or else, only see what they want to see, will not be budged in their beliefs no matter what heap of evidence there is to go against their beliefs. If this describes you, then I'm sorry to hear that. And I'll leave you with a tidbit of advice that you should try hard to open up more and look at the world from broader perspectives. Good luck to you!
Robert Karin H. IS telling the truth. Sorry you don't like the truth but the truth is what she is sharing. So shut your yap already.
Please show some respect. As I have said, not everything she has said has been untrue, but the things that haven't been have also been completely irrelevant. But the fact that she tries to use them to prove unrelated points, she is being very deceitful. And yes, not everything that she has said has been irrelevant either, but unfortunately for her argument, everything that she has said that has been relevant has been completely untrue.
It's unfortunate, because I love horses, but this Karin person has done so much harm to them in this discussion forum, and for the sake of horses, I wish she hadn't.
How disappointing. Why don't you also suggest that we start eating our dogs and cats? Donkeys and Burros have had many roles in our country. They helped us colonize the West. Even today they serve as excellent pack animals, protect livestock from potential predators, and are pets and friends to many Americans. Horses, donkeys, and burros have become family animals in the modern age, despite their large size. That's part of our culture, and it is not a part that we should do away with.
I feel like people are missing the point here. We should be focused on eating healthier, more sustainable foods. I think we should be cautious though, since as soon as the demand for these things increase, we will end up in the same boat we are in with chickens and cows. I don't think we should mass produce anything, just take what's out there and don't turn your nose up at it. If yo uhave the ability, plant a garden. I'm growing herbs and smal veggies on my window sill at work. It isn't much, but if everyone did a little bit, the results would be huge! If you live in a city and don't have space to plant a garden, eat a rat :)
Agreed Witty One, that we should be focused on sustainable, healthy food. Which is why I'm perplexed about horses being sited in the donkey reference. Horse is probably the least sustainable, most carbon-intensive production of any animal. To bring a horse to slaughter weight (4 years of age) requires obscene amounts of feed, orders of magnitude beyond cattle.
And because Americans don't want to eat horse, there are only a handful of plants around North America that kill for foreign markets. That means horses being trucked for thousands of miles to get to the plants. And then their carcasses are flown overseas! Doesn't get more carbon intensive than that.
In addition, horse slaughter plants are notoriously bad for the local environment, with all three former American plants having multiple environmental violations.
And healthy? Seriously, as someone who understands the standards and requirements for food production, I can tell you eating North American horse meat is taking your life in your hands. No other food animals receives even a portion of the toxic drugs horses do. The USDA doesn't really care, because it's not consumed in this country.
"Pig ears have changed the world..."-They have, trickle-down economics, BabyBush's Iraqui war and Phil Gramm type legislation have busted us all.
Modern horses are not native to North America, and are a blight on the landscape. I bet those wild herds that are devastating various national parks would make good eatin'. Getting rid of them would help return the areas to their natural state, and provide tons of grass-fed, organic horse meat to boot.
YOUR Brains are located where you sit !!!!!!!!
Are you being sarcastic? Wild horses that are a blight on the landscape? LOL. The states with the dwindling wild horse herds use them as a major tourist draw. And what happens when they take wild horses off the lands? They fill the spaces with truly invasive domestic cattle. THAT'S what's decimating our public lands dude.
Is this guy another one of Sue Wallis's Flying monkey's,,, what a idiot, another brain dead american,, these people have some kind of illness like mad cows disease,, Sickos !!
Everything you stated here is completely and utterly FALSE!!!
The Equine was here before the ice age for tens of thousands of years so IT IS NATIVE to this land and IN NO WAY is it a "blight" to the landscape this is the BIGGEST LIE OUT THERE ABOUT THE HORSE. The FACTS are the equine is the MOST LESS INVASIVE animal on the plant not only to the land but to US HUMANS! There are NO diseases transmitted from horse to human and the horse is one of only a hand full of animals that cuts the grasses at its roots allowing the grasses to grow BACK. The horse is a WANDERING eater and never stays in the same place while eating, horses also have small stomach and drinks ONLY the water it needs unlike a cow for instance which will stay in one spot eat the entire grass roots and all STRIPPING THE LAND and the cow has 4 stomach and will drink until full!
Your facts are WRONG about the wild horse "destroying our lands out west, The MUSTANGS in this case, has NOT destroyed the America west not one bit! YOU NO NOTHING ON THIS ISSUE, YOU ARE JUST SPEWING HATRED, you do not know the first thing about the equine!
The 1971 ROAM ACT passed the House and Senate WITH NOT ONE DESCENDING VOTE, THE ONLY BILL IN AMERICA HISTORY TO HAVE THAT HONOR! WOW HUH bet you did not know that!!! The American people have spoken time and time again with an OVERWHELMING VOICE for 43+ years straight saying NO to horse slaughtering in America and to LEAVE OUR MUSTANGS ALONE. In this REPUBLIC (yes we are a Republic not a democracy) the PEOPLE'S MAJORITY VOICE RULES THE LAND!
The one thing and most important point of all that you have NO CLUE about is that 95% of ALL American horses are given BUTE and/or other drugs that are FILLED with chemicals. BUTE (Phenylbutazone) is the number one drug given to our horses, BUTE was BANNED for human usage by the FDA because their test showed that BUTE caused several sickening elements in humans and even caused cancer in some tests! BUTE and these other chemicals can not be and are not "COOKED" out of the meat, they remain and by eating American horse meat WILL MAKE YOU AND OUR UNBORN CHILDREN SICK AND CAN EVEN KILL YOU AND YOUR UNBORN children! FINALLY even the EU is waking up to this health concern and has started running very detailed in depth testing, and has ALREADY rejected 250 thousands pounds of American horse meat in the past few months because of the high BUTE levels as well as the horses coming from very inhumane and abusive processing planets in canada and mexico!
The HORSE is NOT A FEED ANIMAL, IT IS A COMPANION ANIMAL just like our K-9 friends and they deserve the same protection! America owes its very existence to the Horse, even several of our Founding Fathers (Washington, Jefferson, Franklin Sherman, etc wanted the horse protected and to be the symbol of America instead of the Eagle. The horse BUILT this country from the ground up, WE OWE IT TO THEM!
BTW gas hits $10 or $15 for a gallon, you still going to drive you gas powered vehicle or ride a horse for FREE (free water and free grass, is all the horse needs)!
WAKE UP and do your own research, stop listening to idiot people!
My old horse had Cushings and was on Pergolide 3.5 mg for 10 years (high dose), Strongid 2x (daily wormer), Bute every day,and a few other meds for all his senile conditions. Is he in the food chain? I'll never tell. Without a "clean" passport, his flesh should never be fed to people–in any country–unless that's the "secret weapon" plan. Pink slime is bad enough for me. EAT BUTE and DIE !
Wave the horse meat banana, and all the Flicka monkeys start howling.
Really, the simple fact is that of all the animals created according to the Bible, horses are listed as not to be eaten. Then you go into the modern issue of the chemicals used to keep a horse healthy are not for human consumption and the fact the EU is beginning to catch on and are realizing they have been shipped tainted meat from the U.S.
Oh and Zimmerman has a lot of room to talk about eating lean to fight obesity. Looks like he could afford to lose a few pounds in that picture. Personally, I would be livid to find out that horse meat is being served in public school systems since that is part of the argument of having horse slaughter. And there are people that say it will be an inexpensive meat to purchase, at $40.00 a pound I don't see that as inexpensive.
People need to get the facts on safety, health and humane treatment of horses and slaughter and the meat that would be available.
Speaking of getting the facts: who is "Zimmerman"?
Dr. Lester Friedlander, DVM & former Chief USDA Inspector, told Congress in 2008: “The captive bolt used to slaughter horses is simply not effective. These animals regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck, they are fully aware they are being vivisected.”
HEY ANDREW! YOU NEED TO READ THIS!!! YOU REALLY, REALLY NEED TO DO SOME HOMEWORK INSTEAD OF JUST WORKING YOUR BIG MOUTH!
http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/captive_bolt.htm
THIS IS HOW THEY ARE KILLING THE DONKEYS AND HORSES TO GET WHAT YOU SAY MORE AMERICANS SHOULD EAT!
Not a problem. Go back to using sledgehammers. More effective, and cheaper to boot.
This guy is really bad at trolling. Ignore him : P
HEY KARIN!! YOU NEED TO READ THIS!!! YOU REALLY, REALLY NEED TO DO SOME HOMEWORK INSTEAD OF JUST WORKING YOUR BIG MOUTH!
Zimmern NEVER supported that. One comment about eating horses, and you start making up all these ridiculous lies about the man, bringing up topics that are not even part of this discussion, and then trying to use them to prove completely unrelated points. You clearly know not which you speak of. Please stop condemning a man for deeds he has never done. You are doing a very evil and hateful thing Karin, and you should be ashamed in yourself.
He quite clearly recommends that we in America put horse on our plates ... ergo, Karin is discussing why that wouldn't work. If Andrew Z. wants to fling out a recommendation like that, I think it's fair game for Karin to talk about horse slaughter and why it doesn't work. How do you think the animal gets on the plate? There has to be a slaughter process.
Of course a slaughter process is necessary, but it doesn't NEED to be unsafe. It doesn't NEED to be inhumane. Karin is, and has been for a while on this forum, been continuing to take specific examples and trying to apply them to cover 100% of the possibilities. Zimmern wasn't suggesting eating unsafe meat. I haven't been suggesting it. And few to no people in this topic have been suggesting it either. But Karin continues to put words in people's mouths and accuse us of that, in addition to the aforementioned skewing of facts by bringing up unrelated points and attempting to use them as "proof" for things which are just simply not provable. And when she's not doing that, she's blurting out falsities as if they are scientific fact.
All the while, she is condemning anybody who disagrees with her. It's not just hateful and disrespectful what Karin is doing, it's borderline tyrannical the way she is trying to control everybody using tactics similar to brainwashing.
I recommend and hope that anybody interested in horse slaughter (no matter which perspective you have on it) or anything else that's been discussed in this forum so far, to actually DO SOME RESEARCH from a variety of sources because there have been a few good valuable points by people here, but there has also been A LOT of deception and false statements, certainly not the least of which has come from Karin.
Robert is very upset because I'm challenging his "boy." I don't mean to upset you on a personal level, which obviously I have, but you are stating something that is CATEGORICALLY FALSE. You are stating that this celebrity is supporting "humane" horse slaughter for human consumption, which DOES NOT EXIST. Watch a slaughter video. I seriously doubt if this Andrew Zimmern character has seen the process himself. I believe he has not done any research and should bear the brunt of making statements so grand about this issue, one that is being debated in many communities across our country right now, without doing any homework whatsoever.
Karin, first off, please remember to be more respectful on these forums and refrain from adding random insults, baseless accusations, and outright lies to your posts. You don't know me, so you have absolutely no authority in making judgments about my feelings or my motivations or anything of the sort. I have not had my feelings hurt by you. I am simply here trying to spread openness and transparent knowledge of the facts. Additionally, I have made several comments on this forum in the name of combating intolerance and supremest attitudes and promote cultural awareness, and truth in general.
You have no proof whatsoever for your claim that it is impossible to humanely and safely slaughter a horse. You tell others to do their research, and so I will say the same exact thing to you. The research does not support what you've been saying. You have no proof, and because you continue to try to use irrelevant points that are unrelated to the discussion at hand, you have not even gone as far as to even allude to proof. I welcome you to bring any research you have to the table, cite any sources you like. If you're going to go as far as to claim that it is categorically impossible to humanely slaughter a horse that is safe for consumption, then you NEED some evidence to back that claim up. Thus far, you have presented none. Your continued allusions to some horse slaughtering video/s are irrelevant, because that one or 2 methods of slaughter does not encompass the result of every single possible slaughtering method. You need to broaden your perspective and open up in general. The world cannot be intelligently looked at through this tunnel vision and one-perspective approach.
I. The Humane Slaughter Act of 1958
The Humane Slaughter Act ("HSA"), was first enacted in 1958, and amended in 1978 and 2002. HSA requires slaughterhouses to render livestock unconscious before they are killed. On May 13, 2002, President George W. Bush signed into law the "Farm Security and Rural Investment Act of 2002" (Public Law 107-171), which includes a Resolution that the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act of 1958 should be fully enforced to prevent the needless suffering of animals. It also calls upon the Secretary of Agriculture to track violations "and report the results and relevant trends annually to Congress." In January 2004 the General Accounting Office investigated violations of the ‘Humane Methods of Slaughter Act’ which amended the Federal Meat Inspection Act and extended the policy nationwide by requiring that all federally inspected slaughter establishments adopt humane handling and slaughter methods. The results of the GAO investigation can be found at http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04247.pdf.
PRIMARY CITATION: 7 USC 1901 – 1907
7 U.S.C.A. § 1901 Findings and Declaration of Policy
The Congress finds that the use of humane methods in the slaughter of livestock prevents needless suffering; results in safer and better working conditions for persons engaged in the slaughtering industry; brings about improvement of products and economies in slaughtering operations; and produces other benefits for producers, processors, and consumers which tend to expedite an orderly flow of livestock and livestock products in interstate and foreign commerce. It is therefore declared to be the policy of the United States that the slaughtering of livestock and the handling of livestock in connection with slaughter shall be carried out only by humane methods.
7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 Humane Methods
No method of slaughtering or handling in connection with slaughtering shall be deemed to comply with the public policy of the United States unless it is humane. Either of the following two methods of slaughtering and handling is hereby found to be humane:
(a) in the case of cattle, calves, horses, mules, sheep, swine, and other livestock, all animals are rendered insensible to pain by a single blow or gunshot or an electrical, chemical or other means that is rapid and effective, before being shackled, hoisted, thrown, cast, or cut; or
(b) by slaughtering in accordance with the ritual requirements of the Jewish faith or any other religious faith that prescribes a method of slaughter whereby the animal suffers loss of consciousness by anemia of the brain caused by the simultaneous and instantaneous severance of the carotid arteries with a sharp instrument and handling in connection with such slaughtering.
II. Captive Bolt/Exsanguination: Method of Achieving Insensibility Used in the United States
The penetrating captive bolt followed by immediate exsanguination (bleeding out) has been the preferred method of achieving insensibility of equines in American slaughterhouses since the early 1980’s. The mode of action of a penetrating captive bolt gun is concussion and trauma to the brain. This requires that it be held firmly against the surface of the head over the intended site. Because placement and positioning of the projectile is critical, some degree of restraint is required for proper use of this device.
While the destruction of brain tissue with the penetrating captive bolt may be sufficient to result in death, operators are strongly advised to ensure death by exsanguination.
(Source: http://lacs.vetmed.ufl.edu/HumaneEuthanasia/Ex.htm)
It is important to note that in the foreign owned equine slaughterhouses operating in the United States, no form of restraint is used when the equine is in the kill chute or ‘knock box’ waiting for the penetrating captive bolt to be applied. In some instances, it takes several attempts to effectively apply the penetrating captive bolt the equine, if this is achieved at all. The use of the penetrating captive bolt is in violation of 7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 (a) of the Humane Slaughter Act as this methodology requires more than one blow and is inefficient at rendering equines immediately insensible.
(Sources: (i) Dr. Lester Friedlander, DVM and former Chief USDA Inspector, and (ii) Humane Farming Association video documentation at http://www.manesandtailsorganization.org/media.html)
Use of the captive bolt causes extreme pain.
In a study conducted at Hanover University, EEG and ECG recordings were taken on all animals to measure the condition of the brain and heart during the course of slaughter and stunning. EEG readings showed that although the animals were apparently unconscious soon after stunning with the penetrating captive bolt, they were experiencing severe pain immediately after stunning.
(Source: http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm)
Horses regain consciousness approximately 30 seconds after the captive bolt is applied.
Due to the inherent differences in skull structures of bovines and equines, each species reacts to the captive bolt differently. The brain of an equine is further back in the skull compared to a bovine. The equines regain consciousness and are not insensible to pain shortly after they are shackled and hoisted. Therefore, they are very much aware of being butchered alive.
(Source: Dr. Lester Friedlander, DVM and former Chief USDA Inspector.)
III. No Other Methods of Equine Slaughter Comply with the HSA of 1958
(1) Electrocution – has been defined as 'cruel' by the American Horse Show Association in response to owners who have electrocuted their horses for insurance money. Federal Courts have upheld the Association's contention that electrocution is cruel. Therefore, it cannot be used as a method of humane slaughter for equines.
(2) Drug Overdose – this method saturates the tissues and leaves residues thereby making the meat inedible.
(3) Carbon Monoxide – this method saturates the tissues and leaves residues thereby making the meat inedible.
(4) .22 Caliber Gun Shot – This particular firearm is inappropriate for equines due to the thickness of the skull structure of an equine. Using the .22 caliber rifle does not achieve instantaneous insensibility of equines. Larger caliber firearms such as a 9mm or .357 are required to efficiently penetrate the skull and cause the massive brain destruction necessary to achieve instantaneous insensibility. (Source: Procedures for Humane Euthanasia of Sick, Injured and/or Debilitated Livestock – http://lacs.vetmed.ufl.edu/HumaneEuthanasia/gun.htm). Additionally, the horse cannot be restrained and this method is dangerous to workers.
IV. The American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Equine Practitioners Positions Regarding Equine Slaughter
Both the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Association of Equine Practitioners deem the use of the penetrating captive bolt ‘acceptable.’ The American Veterinary Medical Association 2000 Report of the AVMA Panel on Euthanasia evaluated Euthanasia according to this criterion:
(1) ability to induce loss of consciousness and death without causing pain, distress, anxiety, or apprehension;
(2) time required to induce loss of consciousness;
(3) reliability;
(4) safety of personnel;
(5) irreversibility;
(6) compatibility with requirement and purpose;
(7) emotional effect on observers or operators;
(8) compatibility with subsequent evaluation, examination, or use of tissue;
(9) drug availability and human abuse potential;
(10) compatibility with species, age, and health status;
(11) ability to maintain equipment in proper working order; and
(12) safety for predators/scavengers should the carcass be consumed.
The use of the penetrating captive bolt gun does not meet the AVMA Panel's criteria regarding "loss of consciousness and death without causing pain, distress, anxiety, or apprehension." Unlike bovines (which the penetrating captive bolt was designed for) equines possess different skull structures, are flight animals, and attempt to flee the 'knock box' or 'kill chute.' That being the case, it takes numerous attempts before the animal is properly stunned, if this is achieved at all.
From documentation provided by the Humane Society of the United States and the Humane Farming Association it is clear that these equines are feeling pain due to the number of attempts taken to stun them, and are extremely distressed, anxious, and apprehensive.
This invalidates criteria 1, 2, 3, 6, and 10 of the AVMA's criterion for 'humane euthanasia.'
The AVMA position regarding the use of the penetrating captive bolt is in violation of 7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 (a) of the Humane Slaughter Act as this methodology requires more than one blow and is inefficient at rendering equines insensible.
CONCLUSION
The use of the penetrating captive bolt is in violation of the Humane Slaughter Act generally, and 7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 (a) specifically. Any other method of slaughter as applied to equines is in violation of the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958 generally, and 7 U.S.C.A. § 1902 (a) specifically.
Thank you Karin for that block of irrelevant information. I now welcome you to find any accredited information that proves any of your points that I have contended. I will call that block of information "strike 1". It was interesting and all, just didn't prove in the slightest anything that I have disagreed with you on.
You guys are being a bit hard on Andy Zimmern. I watch his show often and I give him lots of credit for traveling to the ends of the earth and having the courage to sample nearly everything that people harvest, kill and cook (and sometimes eat raw in less than sanitary conditions). To his credit, the only things I recall that he could not swallow and keep down were sea cucumber and stinky tofu from the infamous House of Unique Stink in Taipei.
Humans are omnivores by design and evolution, and most of the world's population does not survive on chicken nuggets. Ironically many people who eat bats, scorpions, and rodents are appalled at our fondness for cheese. To them, it's just rotten curdled milk. So before we berate other culture's diets, let's consider some of the unsavory things many Americans eat – scrapple, spam, chitterlings, hog maws, haggis, pork rinds, liver. When the next global famine occurs, people will not only beg for donkey and pink slime they'll settle for soylent green wafers like in the apocalyptic film.
Americans have emotional attachments to horses that cannot and should not be ignored any more than we would expect people in India to ignore their religious beliefs about the sacred nature of cows.
The role of the horse as helper, servant, partner, friend, and companion goes back to the BIble in terms of written history.
Is genetically modified food WMD?
Apparently, CNN does not have any standards for what they air on their programs. A new low -congradulations!
Agreed – disgusting and shameful.
What the proponents of Commercial Horse Slaughter in the U.S. are not taking into consideration is the fact that the end “product” of this industry contains Adrenaline and Cortisol in levels far higher than what is not allowed in beef by law and regulated by the USDA.
If you want a real education yourself, Google “Commercial Horse Slaughter” and you will get one. This abhorrent practice was ill-regulated and only cursory inspected for meat quality, with the standards at all U.S. Commercial Horse Slaughter Plants in the U.S. being almost non-existent. Someone was protecting this industry before, but no longer. The American Horse Racing Industry was feeding it — ARE THEY STILL? Officially, No. Behind the scenes and out the back gates, Yes.
In Commercial Beef Slaughter they call it “dark cutting.” Google that and you will get an education about the toxic hormones and steroids that are making their way into your hamburgers and steaks (especially fast food beef.) It causes Cancer and other disease in humans and causes the Commercial Beef Slaughter Industry’s largest financial losses every year.
Equines and bovines are completely different species of animals. The equine senses are better than canines and their herd mentality extremely keen. It is virtually and practically impossible to kill a horse humanely in a commercial setting. The proponents of this issue are lying to everyone and the proof will come in the toxicology reports that will be mandated by the lawsuits filed against them and the USDA for attempting to distribute harmful levels of these toxic hormones and steroids to the population.
Every single head-shot horse is a “bad kill” with their autonomic endocrine systems delivering extreme amounts of adrenaline and cortisol throughout the flesh AFTER the shot. The evidence of this is in the pulsing of the horse post shot. Review some Commercial Horse Slaughter videos and see for yourself. This also happens in slower, dumber bovines at a much lessor rate but is supposedly tracked and managed by USDA officials on their lines. The same USDA that is already stressed and thin in ranks because of the economic budget issues our country is facing.
The evidence that will make this “product” illegal is scientific. The Commercial Beef Slaughter Industry is already suppressing information regarding the levels of Adrenaline and Cortisol that are making their way into U.S. diets, causing Cancer and other disease. All of this will come to light with further scrutiny.
I thank the proponents of Commercial Horse Slaughter in the U.S. for being so outspoken with their propaganda and misinformation to bring so much attention to this issue. We all need to make a concerted effort to know exactly what we are ingesting and stay away from products that are proven harmful to our health.
Are all these people going to die? Are they monsters? Should they be beaten with hoses?
From Wikiwpedia
In 2009, a British agriculture industry website reported the following horse meat production levels in various countries:
Horse meat production levels
as of 2009[38]
Country Tons per year
Mexico 78,000
Argentina 57,000
Kazakhstan 55,000
Mongolia 38,000
Kyrgyzstan 25,000
Australia 24,000
Brazil 21,000
Canada 18,000
Poland 18,000
Italy 16,000*
Romania 14,000
Chile 10,000
France 7,500
Uruguay 8,000
Senegal 9,500
Colombia 6,000
Spain 5,000*
* Including donkeys.
If the horses they eat are treated with the drugs that U. S. domestic horses, mules, donkeys, burros, etc.,, yes, some of them will die because they ate equidaie.
The more popular horse and donkey become, the more effective regulation will be. If you want unregulated slaughter to be curtailed, eat more horse!
You are recommending that people eat toxic levels of adrenaline and cortisol. It's a very good thing for the Europeans, Canadians and Asians who eat horse meat that it is so expensive and considered a "delicacy." If not, more consumers would undoubtedly be stricken with Colon Cancer, as many U.S. Consumers now are who eat diets high in fast food beef and low in vegetables.
Read what I wrote, or get someone to sound it out for you: more demand == greater regulation == end to all your problems, real or imagined.
Six Degrees, you have no idea what you are debating. The only process available to kill a horse in a commercial setting is completely inhumane and produces levels of naturally occurring hormones and steroids in the end "product" that are harmful for human consumption. That is a fact. More regulation??? How would that change the actual process itself. It doesn't. You are arguing apples and oranges. Your statement does not apply to this issue.
Although, some of the rhetoric I've heard here sounds like it comes directly from the ranks of the Commercial Horse Slaughter proponents. They claim that if they are given the opportunity they can and will make the process "better." And they have been asked to provide that model now for years and never do. I found out, through multiple sources, that this proposed facility they want to build is completely contained. Nobody sees in, nobody hears in. With everything hidden and then claiming they have objective eyes on the process, which are all theirs, it sounds much like McDonald's beef processing to me. And we all know what the fast food beef processors are doing in their facilities because it's giving us Cancer. Paying off USDA officials and hiding from the public is not an appropriate business plan.
Please post this allegedly "humane" slaughter method, so we can all be aware.
Mr. Zimmern most certainly brought this discussion all up with his very pointed statements, and he also listed them as #1 to change the world of eating? Bad move Andrew...
You need to visit Veterinarians for Equine Welfare’s web site. It explains in great detail why horse slaughter is not humane. Horse slaughter via captive bolt is not humane. This is because the horse’s brain is more deeply located behind the skull of the horse. Veterinarians do not like to use it for euthanasia because of the flight nature of the horse. The horse, unlike the cow or other animals, wants to flee and will not hold its head still. The gun needs to be in contact in point of the horse’s skill that is in front of the brain. Even the most highly skilled veterinarian will have difficulty with this. Neither the AAEP or the AVMA approve of the captive bolt for the slaughter situation, despite what Sue Wallis’s United Horsemen or Unqualified Equine, LLC contends.
Not just the captive bolt, but head-shooting horses is also not humane. The horse cannot be killed instantly with head shot. There is very frequently complete regaining of consciousness. But for the meat safety issue, any head traumatized equine's endocrine system, which is autonomic and extremely sensitive due to their very keen flight responses, pumps all of the adrenaline and cortisol directly into the muscular flesh, tainting the meat to toxic levels. The Vets know this, the USDA knows this and the Commercial Slaughter Industry knows this and that is why you cannot find any evidence of it anywhere. They just don't test Commercially Slaughtered Horse Meat for ANYTHING... Really... They think the consumer is an idiot. They don't care to give them Cancer or other disease. They really only want their money. The Commercial $laughter Industry is the most corrupt industry, next to the World Financial Industry... and we trust them to feed us? How's Cancer doing with your family?
Not a problem. Either quickly sever the jugular – ala halal slaughter – or electrocute them. Or just go back to using sledgehammers. There's no problem here without a solution.
I bet neck meat is tasty. It sounds like it gets a lot of exercise, like shoulder. My guess would be it braises well.
Six degrees, you like to debate but you really need to stick to subjects you are familiar with. So, how is someone supposed to simply "severe the jugular" of a horse who is not calm because they are in a foreign environment, being handled by someone they are not familiar with, and fighting for their lives because their sense of smell (that is better than a dog's) is picking up the blood of other horses and the smell of death? You have not been near Commercial Horse Slaughter. I have. You would not be saying what you are saying if you ever had. They cannot use Halal methods of slaughter, which also require above all that the animal be calm and at rest, because men with very large, very sharp knives would likely be impaled themselves.
Horses are very smart and very powerful animals. That is why it has always been a common practice in Commercial Horse Slaughter facilities for the handlers to gouge the horses' eyes out just to head shoot them.
Horses will fight for their lives when they cannot run. The healthiest ones do anyway... The sick and old ones don't put up much fuss. So, which horses are Andrew eating??? The healthy ones? or the sick and old ones? Hmmm...
SixDegrees, I think the point is that regulation is very poor. When we do it, we often fail at regulating these types of industries. I wouldn't just say we just should just eat more and then regulations will take care of it. If we had decent regulations, the issues of compassionate slaughter at processing plants wouldn't arise.
WOW, did this article bring everyone off their seats. CNN must be ecstatic. I want to throw in my 2 cents by saying, yes, I am an animal lover, yes I have donkeys to guard our animals, our acreage and they are naturally superb. I would never eat one – too much respect. Yes, I own 5 horses, who each have a different personality just like the human friends I know. They have brought more joy into my life and hard work, but they are my PARTNERS, not my next meal ticket. I live near Kaufman,TX and know of the horrors of a slaughtering plant for the land, the people, the city. It is not a job creating plant. I would never sacrifice all the ills that befall a slaughter plant town for 50 or 60 workers. Even in Canada they have had to shut down a famous state- of- the art facility because it turns out there is NO HUMANE way to kill the horses, let alone donkeys. Mr. Zimmern is more than welcome to push any kind of diet he prefers. I have not seen any recipes for dog or cat, but he probably has a few. These are all animals with intelligence to work with humans, so they are OFF my plate. I support many groups which fight against horse and donkey slaughter, abuse to dogs and cats as well. God has given me a heart of love and devotion to them, and I will always fight because they cannot. I will not condone cruelty to kill and process food for other countries which get tax exemptions, are able to avoid prosecution (foreign you know) and give nothing back, leaving us with the trssh and clean up and blood on our hands. I dare you to watch a few of the slaughter videos on YouTube and then feel like you want a horse or donkey burger. Good luck, Mr Zimmern, trying to change the world with your five foods.
The world as a whole disagrees. A steady diet of John Wayne has turned America into an aberration in this regard.
John Wayne, Black Beuty, My Friend Flicka, Mr. Ed, The Black Stallion, Seabiscuit, National Velvet, and so many other cultural influences.
If you have ever been to our capitol and walked the area, you cannot miss the numbers of famous soldiers on horse back.
We do not want our equines slaughtered.
Speak for yourself. Lots of Americans aren't nearly so squeamish. And all those soldiers on horseback? I hate to break this to you, but they had no qualms at all about eating their rides, and did so regularly. There's no point in wasting perfectly good meat.
SixDegrees, I find it funny that you read this well-thought out post by missshahera, and come up with "we've been watching too many John Wayne movies." Huh?
So glad you have somewhere to voice your bitterness against animals. God loves you. (He's the One who created all the animals before man.) Your comments are certainly entertaining...as most all slaptick is.
Again – What is with you people – Beat you with a stick, with a rubber hose, Idiot, Moron, Cannibalism. Have you all such closed minds that you cannot accept that others would have different view points and different tastes, different backgrounds? This was a discussion about food and one persons perspective on the state of what we eat. Some of you have obviously never watched his show where he explains how different cultures have different eating habits and the reaction to those foods that we would normally never see here in the states. Are these people in other cultures wrong, ignorant, worthy of beating with a rubber hose? Don't like it –DON'T EAT IT!!
Obviously, almost none of us have watched his show which should tell you something, but one thing we are watching is the attempts by a nefarious Wyoming state representative and her band of not so merry men who want to make money on the blood of our horses. If might be just a TV show to you, but we are fighting BIG FOREIGN BUCKS who want us to pay to have meat that they will sell for up to $40.00 a pound in their countries after we have paid for the FSIS, APHIS inspectors, ruined our rivers, our land, our air, had our horses stolen, etc. Horse slaughter is a breeding ground for the underbelly of society. You can’t find one main stream American whose life is unattained by allegations of fraud, bankruptcy, abuse of power, misuse of funds, conflict of interest, or who has been voted out of office by his or her constituents or will be soon that supports horse slaughter. Supporting horse slaughter is like asking for bad karma.
I think this chef put himself wide open for these comments when he "recommended" we eat horse and try donkey. He's not just chatting about what other countries do; he's proposing we do the same thing. People will disagree if someone expresses an opinion/recommendation like that. He writes an article like that, he's going to provoke strong opinions. I find nothing wrong with disagreeing with his recommendations and like many people here, explaining exactly why.
I predict Zimmern will die early of some sort of cancer. Some items are not meant to be consumed by humans.
That is true. The biggie is grains. Humans cannot digest grains unless they are ground/cooked first; we cannot digest them in their natural form, they are supposed to pass through us and have their seeds land in a nice pile of fertilizer. (I'm willing to bet you eat grains though.)
But meat, vegetables, and fruit? Those are part of our natural diet.
Many experts agree that people don't need meat to survive. In truth, many experts believe we do. There are plenty of healthy non-meat-eaters out there ... they seem to be thriving quite well!
Andrew you are disgusting! When they do allow humans for consumption, which could be coming right after cats and dogs, I hope you are the first to go!!! Obviously, you lack love and compassion in your life!! I would like just once for you to feel the fear and pain these animals experience at their moment of death. You are a horrible sad excuse for a human being!
I'd like to beat you with a stick.. thx for showing your ignorance you moron...
Robin, you are a bigoted hypocrite. In one sentence, you express hope for the swift death of another human being. And the VERY NEXT sentence, you accuse him of having no love or compassion.
Please try to learn to have an open mind. Most people honestly don't get very far in life without one...
I'm waiting for the news report about Robin swerving to avoid a bear in the road, only to run over a person, hit a tree and have said bear eat her head because he thought it was a candy. Everyone goes in the end.
This is way mean. Really sick.
How is it any different from what the OP said?
People already eat dogs; they're very popular in the Philippines and large sections of Asia.
Cats, not so much. They're kind of greasy. But they'll do in a pinch.
This is true but sick though...Humans for CONSUMPTION...Right out of the movie Soylent Greens...Start lining the humans up and Andrew Zimmerman will probably be first to try the green protein crackers...Good comment Robin Boren..Directions of what is coming??? All the slaughter and destruction, cruelty needs to end...
Sarcasm or not, it's ironic how so many people who are supposedly fighting against cruelty and the like are the ones supporting cannibalism. Even as far as suggesting that certain individuals get killed and eaten. That's so hypocritical, it's almost amusing.
Reminds me of the woman in recent news who tried to hire an assassin to go to a park and murder a random person wearing fur.
If the cause you fight for is the protection of lives (aka NOT VIOLENCE), then you shouldn't have violence be what you use to fight for it. You will garner little to no support that way. More likely, people will think you are a lunatic and take nothing you say seriously.
I am surprised no one has mentioned the biblical prohibition on eating the meat of mammals without cloven hooves? That lets out equines, and dogs and cats as well...
But more seriously, folks, those of us who have been working for years to stop the slaughter of US horses for human consumption in other countries know very well what a barbaric industry it is. It is cruel, it despoils the towns where it occurs, and the end result is - as has been amply noted - toxic.
There is no dispute possible about the fact that the present means of killing horses is inappropriate for flight animals (especially those with long flexible necks). We could tell you horror stories that would curl your hair. The brutality, the fraud, the deceit - do you know that horse theft goes down when slaughter is eliminated in an area? And the plants' disregard for the inadequate regulations that do exist is just about complete.
We want this despicable industry shut down. It brought no profits to the US, as the plant owners were and are not American companies, and its products are not consumed by Americans, nor are they likely to be. So, given that the market will still be offshore, thus requiring higher storage and shipping costs than a domestic market, profit pressure will continue to mandate the current brutal approach, because it would be too expensive to make it humane. And the will is and was not there even to make it as humane as it could be.
So, the last thing we need is some smart-aleck pushing donkey meat as a food to save the world. I think it is irresponsible of CNN to publish this article.
Fact: During the meat boycott in the 1970's horse meat rotted off the shelves. Fact: The FDA classifies all Equidaies as companion animals and not livestock. Fact: Anyone who eats horses or their cousins is violating a Federal statute as this meat has to be inspected by the USDA.Fact: 80% of Americans are against the slaughter of horses, ponies (these are their own species), donkeys, mules and hinnies.
I think that CNN was having a slow news day to post this article which details a man whom is so far removed from the majority of the people of the United States that he is an agitator and just craves attention. I will no longer watch CNN.
Well, not that it makes any difference since you've stopped watching CNN, but...no. Do at least a wee bit of research before posting.
I don't understand you people, this site is to spit out comments but some of you are attacking each others comment. Why can't you just leave it alone whatever comment other people have. We have different opinions and respect it.
I agree 100%. I will go only as far as respectfully contesting when people state either opinions, or objective falsities as facts. But I wish people could leave the blatant disrespect out of these discussions.
How about all those flying fish up and down the Mississippi. Export them to China.
Asian carp? There have been attempts to popularize them as food – they're eaten in other countries. They aren't all that appealing. They're carp, and like pretty much all carp the flesh is sort of mushy, and they have a lot of bones that are difficult to remove.
Sadly, they're here to stay. The only solution would be to poison the river and kill everything in it, then restock with desirable species, but that's not really a solution at all.
A recent article I read about the dead zone in the Gulf suggested that the river is already poisoned. You do realize that all the pesticides and chemicals from the many states eventually end up in the Mississippi, and in everything that floats in ti.
CNN, you should be ashamed of yourself. You lost what little credibility you had a long time ago, and puking out stories like this just makes you look even worse than you already did.
And yet you read the story,tsk,tsk.
I hate clowns like you that say that.. Just because someone chose to read an article does not make it a good article to read.. ????? You are a moron and your stupid comment is awful.. People like you need to be beaten with a 6 ft section of garden hose..
That was a horrible thing to say. You should grow up and learn some manners. You could have just made your point, and that would be fine. Hell, it was a good point. But to say things like "he should be beaten" for one tiny little 6 word comment is horrible.
In any case, regarding CNN and the article. I completely disagree with that. I find it to be probably the best source of television news (which might not be saying much, but hey, it's still leagues better than Fox in my opinion). But regardless, kind of silly of you to go onto a CNN article and try to pick fights with people like that. You won't see me going onto Fox article comments sections (or whichever news sources you prefer) and slinging baseless insults at it.
OKAY, I am against the barbaric slaughtering of horses but what I do not like JMB is when people use violent words because you are the ones that give the us a bad name and I would never say any violent words, not even to Sue Wallis that makes me ill..
"Tongue tastes better and has better mouth feel"
/lame pun
When people resort to eating innocent allies the burros and the magnificent horses, horses and Burros were not meant for anyones plate , Mankind makes me sick to my stomach !!!! and I wonder what else this is coming to ???? This gent is fat I dont care what he eats.............................. The horse and the Burro are our prestigious allies without them there would be no west !!! They Built it , is this how we repay them ??? This is broadcasting at its worst sickening, It will be a cold day in Hell the next time I watch CNN shame on you for Broadcasting this pure crap !!!!!
Oh god.. please shut up.. unreal.. please go do something fun to yourself..
Perhaps part of the problem here is that those of us who are fighting against the inhumane slaughter of our equine friends have quite a bit of information that has been obtained through FOIA documents from USDA from January 2011 through November 2011 detailing violations of U. S. slaughter plants, pictures of horses with their eyes poked out, missing limbs, hanging upside down by a hind leg, eyes wide open, fully alert, watching their killers slit their throats, etc. We also have videos such as A Horse’s Worse Nightmare which was put together by Animals Angels. I’d suggest googling it because it is only seven minutes but shows what happens to horses from the time they are sold as “kill” horses until they are slaughtered (not excessively graphic–believe it or not). We have read reports of the chemical residues that are commonly used by almost every horse vet in the country to treat soreness or injury in horses, but can cause bone marrow suppression, kidney disease, serum allergic disease, and cancer (National Toxicology Report).
There is nothing humane about a single step in the horse slaughter process. Buddha is believed to have said something to the effect that one should not believe what anyone tells you, no matter who they are, if what they tell you is against what your own experience and knowledge tells you is true. This is indeed the case when it comes to horse slaughter. Horse slaughter is inhumane.
Don’t take my word for it. Go to Veterinarians for Equine Welfare’s web site, read the papers, look at the video, review the FDA’s comments about drugs banned in animals intended for human consumption.
It would be easier for anti-horse-slaughter advocates to deal with a story like this if CNN used its investigative team to explore the deeply flawed GAO report that was ordered by Montana Senator Max Baucus to show a relationship between the close of horse slaughter plants in 2007 and the (perceived) decline in equine welfare in the U. S. As a former teacher, I can saw without a qualm that if one of my students had turned this report into me as part of a class grade, he would stay everyday after school until he had fixed all the logical fallacies, lack of data, failure to use appropriate authorities (GAO used authorities, but not the ones with the actual data). This report doesn’t make it out of the starting gate, and to think that we tax payers spent millions of dollars on a junior high school level report is a national scandal as is most of what CNN has not reported about horse slaughter.
Correction: The dates were from January 2005 through November 2005.
Probably necessary for you to do , but not for me I have you to have fun with !!!!!!!
That was very bigoted of you arlene.
DUMP this obnoxious semi-human.
After reading most of the comments recorded here I am appalled at the venom coming out of a civilized society. If you do not like, eat, or condone meat eating state that. Name calling and outright attacks on someone who was willing to state his opinion on the state of food is not what helps. I do not think I will be partaking in donkey and probably not horse but if you have not grown up in an ethnic family do not insult the many foods that are everyday to them. Blood sausage, head cheese these where all foods I ate growing up in my house with european 1st generation parents. Wether I eat meat or not is a personal choice.
I suppose you dont think eating a animal that is our ally venomous????
No, Arlene, just you.
And you are exactly the mentality of a poor excuse for human !!!!! and have no common regard for the Beauty and service of our beloved Horses !!!!!!
Are you concerned that about 70% of the drugs that are used routinely in domestic horses are only approved for use in drugs that will not be used as food animals?
Are you aware that the USDA has no effective, efficient tests that detect the presence of these drugs in the tissues of the food animals. They are no better in bovines which we do eat than they are in equines that we don’t. The difference if that these drugs are commonly used in horses, but are forbidden in cattle. However, for those of us who have been debating the issue of toxic horse meat, we have been confronted by pro-horse-slaughter so called cattle people who tell us that cows are treated with drugs such as phenylbutazone which is expressly prohibited in food animals. Do you understand that if a cow treated with phenylbutazone is sent to slaughter, the chances that its carcass will be tested and that it will be removed from the food packing, transportation, and your grocery shelf are almost none and next to none. With horses, we know that 80% of the horses that are sold for slaughter from the U. S. contain these very dangerous drugs, but three members of Congress, Representative Jack Kingston of Georgia, Senator Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, and Senator Roy Bunt of Missouri voted to omit language specifically prohibiting the funding with our tax dollars inspectors for horse meat.
Why would we pay six million plus dollars to pay for inspectors to inspect meat that almost every horse owner in America knows is contaminated. There is no approved amount for these drugs. They are prohibited after one administration.
Americans who own horses, love horses, or love animals do not want to ad horses to the food animal industry in this country. I, for one, am finding it increasingly difficult to buy meat at the grocery store. I look at cuts of beef and immediately, I recall pictures I have seen of beef steaks and horse steaks side by side. The same with roasts or ground meat. This whole debate has slowly, but surely, ruined my enjoyment of any meat-.
Again, part of the anger that this story was run on CNN is due to CNN;s failure to examine the different issues surrounding horse slaughter. For those of us who have been following Reprsentative Wallis’s story for the past couple of years, to run a story like this in combination with running comments by her after the 2012 Ag Appropriations Conference Bill was passed, but to ignores the drug issue, the humane issue, the environmental issues, the crime issues, the increase in horse thefts, is like rubbing salt in the wound.
This man knows nothing about the toxicity of Commercially Slaughtered Horse Meat??? How could he recommend this without doing any research. The levels of Adrenaline and Cortisol in Commercially Slaughtered Horse Meat are at toxic levels and the meat is actually unfit for human consumption. The industry itself has created their own methods of policing and these facts are heavily suppressed. Although, anyone who wishes to Google "Commercial Horse Slaughter" can learn all the facts for themselves. Watch a horse slaughter video and see for yourself the pulsing after the head trauma that distributed extremely high levels of Adrenaline and Cortisol directly into the "harvest-able flesh."
Good hunters do not eat bad kills. Good hunters do not head-shoot animals. Look at the human practice of taking animals for harvest that produce far less amounts of Adrenaline. We breed Thoroughbreds for increased adrenaline production! Do you actually believe you are correct advocating this, Andrew Zimmern? To me, an experienced and educated horse professional who has been studying all methods of slaughter intensely for years, you sound like an absolute fool or that you may just be ignorant of the facts behind that which you speak. That's dangerous to people's health.
Your views are obviously biased, so your "facts" are suspect.
Also, adrenaline and cortisol levels are only "toxic" when it is your own body producing them. They can't be absorbed through the digestive system, and are also broken down during the cooking process.
Your statements are a total fabrication. Google "Dark Cutting"
I don’t know about toxicity with cortisol. However, the beef industry has invested in both physical design and animal handler training to reduce the amount of stress in cattle.
The difference between cattle and horses regarding stress is that cattle cluster while horses run. Fight or flight. What chemicals do our bodies produce to cause us to flee or fight and what happens when we cannot do either.
The beef industry seems to believe that it does make a difference in the quality of the product. Since Americans do not eat horse, there is unlikely to be such a study in this country.
Nonetheless, the chemicals that veterinarians and horse owners use on the horses and their residues that do remain in horse after death are toxic to humans. See the FDA for drugs used in horses that are banned or humans or go to the Veterinarians for Equine Welfare web’s site. Then ask yourself what kind of people we have in Congress who would ignore these very serious implications for human health, There is no doubt that a very large percentage of horses that are sold for slaughter every year are treated with these drugs.
Equines and bovines are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPECIES of animal! Stop listening to what the Commercial $laughter Industry mouthpieces are telling you. Research and study this issue for yourself, like I did, for years. Familiarize yourself with all forms of slaughter, why they are used differently in different cultures and then look at the escalating rate of digestive Cancer in the U.S. Population. This issue really has nothing to do with the horse accepting the kill box calmly. It has to do with the method of slaughter being the very one that ensures ALL of the adrenaline and cortisol in that equine is completely distributed throughout the flesh of the animal. That is what people are eating, carcinogens. Anyone who rides a Thoroughbred or handles one knows intimately about the extreme levels these powerful animals have been bred for over the ages. I agree with the previous immediate statements, although, we cannot regulate humanity successfully. What we can do is call for complete medical transparency in food. The extreme levels of adrenaline and cortisol found in Commercially $laughtered Horse Meat will eventually make the product illegal. It is now only a matter of time.
Do you have any facts? Most of the “facts” I’ve read, viewed, or acquired through interviewing members of the horse industry, including those who are either ambivalent toward slaughter or support it, speak for themselves.
Call your local (state government’s/your county’s) extension service and ask them if cortisol is a problem in food animals and how people in the meat industry try to reduce or prevent it. You might be interested in the work of Dr. Temple Grandin, whose claim to fame is the more humane design of beef slaughter houses that allow cattle to cluster (in reaction to fear response) longer. She is also an autistic woman. HBO produced a movie staring Claire Danes about Dr. Grandin.
Please re-read the article and stop trying to tell the good readers of this comment board lies. Nowhere did Zimmern recommend eating any meat that is toxic. He's not telling people to just go raid the next farm they see and kill a horse and eat it. You're arguing apples when the discussion is about carrots. Obviously, if we were to start eating horse in the US, it would mean horses getting bred SPECIFICALLY for consumption, and any type of harmful chemicals or toxins would not be an issue, because they wouldn't be administered.
Robert, you are obviously a pro-commercial horse slaughter plant. You are attempting to confuse people by making huge misstatements yourself! You are very, very wrong stating that levels of adrenaline and cortisol in meat is not harmful to humans. If you were telling the truth, then the Commercial Beef Industry would not lose millions every year due to "Dark Cutting" in beef! The levels of adrenaline and cortisol in beef is regulated by law and supposedly by the USDA...
I've done my homework, and then rode over 200 miles to Hollywood with a 3 horse pack string to bring more public awareness to this important issue.
It is impossible to humanely slaughter a horse for healthful human consumption in a commercial setting. Anyone who will tell you different is a liar and likely being paid to distort the truth.
there you go with more name-calling and lies. It is ENTIRELY possible to do, and you have no proof whatsoever to back yourself up.
The proof is in evidence all over the internet. I suppose you are going to claim that the pulsing of the equine, which often lasts up to 10 minutes after the "kill," is due to "kisses from God." You are the biased one. I was a member of the Untied Horsemen's Front and approached by them to take a small business loan to raise horses specifically for slaughter. That was when my education began. The more I learned, the more I understood just how devious and corrupt this industry really is.
You, Mr. Robert WhoeveryouareisprobablybeingpaidtosaywhatyouarebytheverypeoplepromotingCommercialHorse$laughter, have called many of the people commenting against this "practice" horrible names yourself. You are a hypocrite.
Karin, I welcome you to find any post of mine where I am tossing meaningless insults at people randomly just because they disagree with me the way you have done. If you can find any, I will apologize. Your posts, however, have been ridden with blatant attacks and insults on people, likely just because you have no factual claims to back yourself up, so you instead tell lies and sling mud. And you seem to show no remorse for it whatsoever. It is frightening to say the least because you appear to be at least mildly intelligent, and when intelligent people have evil intentions, no good can come of it.
And I agree completely, the evidence IS all over the internet, so I hope people on this forum interested in this ACTUALLY DO THE SEARCHES instead of just listening to your biased and deceitful posts.
I am not arguing, nor have I ever about head shot horses or whatever any commericial horse slaughter tactics are being used now. Frankly, I don't know a damn thing about them. But what I do know, and what anyone with a bit of common sense knows, is that horse meat is not poisonous to eat. Whether or not the industry is feeding safe horse to people or not right now is not even the issue being discussed, and by keeping on bringing that up and arguing with it, you are only arguing with yourself, because few to no people in this forum have even argued with you there. But when you say things like "it's impossible to slaughter a horse and have it be safe for consumption", that is complete and utter bull and you know it. I'm merely contesting your points because I see what you're doing. You clearly have an agenda, and you feel perfectly ok with stating these irrelevant points and outright lies in order to push your cause. I'm telling you that is bad. Instead, you should just give the truths to people, and let them decide on their own how they feel. We are not children on this forum, so please Karin, stop trying to treat everybody like we are by expecting to just hand-feed us lies and fact-skewing irrelevant points.
That style of arguing will get you nowhere among intellectuals. Sure, you might be able to string on a few less free thinking unintelligent people who will believe anything they hear along the way, but that is just a really ugly way to play the game Karin. A very ugly way indeed.
Robert, everyone who reads these posts knows that you repeatedly attack multiple people. I believe you are an antagonist. But you are also a complete liar because you are trying to label me as attacking other commenters and the only one I have addressed is YOU.
You disagree with whatever I say just to disagree and I really hope people Google these topics and educate themselves because you are spreading misinformation saying that there is a "humane" way to slaughter horses. There is not. If there was, I would not have ridden my horses cross-country after spending a year studying this issue intensely.
Post this alleged "humane" method for everyone to see, please.
Karin, I have not sent any nature of attacks or insults at anyone in this forum. You have done a good number to quite a few people here, with a good majority of it being to me. Meanwhile, I have taken the respectful grown up approach and turned the other cheek. There is nothing rude about me calling you out on being disrespectful, which you have continually been. I agree, I really do hope people google these topics because you are the last one anybody should be listening to based on your continued deceit and childishness with your insults.
I honestly find it unfortunate for horses that someone like you is such a big "supporter" of them, because you are quite honestly doing more harm than good. I love all beings of the planet, humans, animals, plants, you name it. Horses included. I think they are beautiful and majestic creatures. But by shelling out deceit and insults in the name of them supposedly, you are doing nothing but darkening my, and likely others' views of you and your cause. I suggest you take notes from people like Amy on this forum. She gave out fairly factual information, mentioned specific sources to search, and, while not perfect, was generally respectful to people on this board unlike you Karin. Now, unfortunately, whenever I hear about a horse activist, I will remember you Karin, and I will have to consciously tell myself to give them a chance because they are probably not like you. And for the sake of horses and animals around the world, I certainly hope that they are not.
You remind me of the person in the news recently who tried to hire a hitman to go to a park and kill a random person wearing fur in order to push her cause. Using those kinds of methods, even if it's for a good cause, will do no good for the world. Remember that Karin. Please do.
And I don't need to provide any proof Karin, as there are an infinite number of possibilities for any animal to be killed. And if we're using the generally accepted definition of the form "humane", (not that of an extremist on either side of the issue) then rest assured, there will be at least one humane method. The burden of proof lies on you Karin, because you are the one arguing that the issue is black and white and that there is 100% 0 chance of humane or safe kill (for later human consumption). It's not likely to be an entirely provable point by the definition of "proof", but if you can provide ample proof that can defend the case to the likelihood of incorrectness being a mere fraction of a percentile, then that should be good enough. But your continued allusions to only 1-3 methods of slaughter do nothing of the sort.
Karin Hauenstein (Horse Activist) Your comments are perfect and exact..The horrible pro's are trying to breakdown your comments...Go Girl!!!!
Robert,
Where is your proof–I mean pictures, video, etc. that it is possible to slaughter horses in a commercial setting humanely. If you have it, you missed an opportunity to earn $2000.00 in a contest where a man in Texas offered to pay anyone who could offer evidence that it could be done humanely.
I used to think that horses were dead when they were slaughtered. Perhaps this is possible in a small, local abattoir. However, this is not what happens in commercial slaughter. In commercial slaughter the horse is hung upside down, usually fully conscious, watching the killer slit his throat. In commercial slaughter, the horse needs to be hung alive upside down so that the horse’s heart can pump blood out of the horse. A horse has almost twice the blood volume of a cow. So slaughtering 100 horses a day is like slaughtering 200 cows. The blood volume and other waste is next to impossible for the waste treatment system to handle. Just research Kaufman, Texas. Find out how many fines Dallas Crowne paid for all the violations it had.
Don’t take my word for it. Go to Veterinarians for Equine Welfare, Kaufman Zoning, Animals Angels, Equine Welfare Alliance. Forbes. Reliable and well-sourced information is out there, but you will not find it at United Horsemen or United Equine, LLC. Wyoming state Representative Sue Walllis used to lambast equine and animal welfare advocates saying we didn’t know anything about animal agriculture. Gues who doesn’t know anything about horses? Guess who has never owned a horse, but been President of a 501 ( c ) 3 that is supposed to “educate” people about “humane” horse care? If you cannot answer these two questions based on your CNN viewing, then you will hopefully understand why some of the anti-horse-slaughter anger is so intense.
Most news businesses seem content to just take the Press Release from the BLM or United Horsemen and not do any research. There is no search for the truth, and when it comes to America’s horses right now, the truth is pretty ugly.
It's too bad people on here are so condescending/disrespectful of other people's comments if they don't agree with them. There's a lot of info about horse slaughter. I'll post a few links. Many people are not aware of the realities of American Horse slaughter & how risky it is to eat American horses. I don't have info on European horses, so I won't write about that.
First of all, race horses that are too slow to race or are not sound DO end up in the slaughter pipeline. (thoroughbreds & standardbreds). Here's 3 links; there's tons more-look it up if you are interested.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickeryeckhoff/2011/11/29/racing-industry-silent-about-slaughtered-thoroughbreds/
http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96113
Ferdinand, a Kentucky Derby winner even ended up at the slaughterhouse.
http://community.tvg.com/t5/History-and-Photos/Ferdinand-The-Horse-That-Still-Haunts-Me/td-p/181276
Second of all, horses in this country are not raised for meat purposes. We have 6 horses-they all get vaccinations, medications if they are injured/arthritic & they get wormed regularly. If you look at the packages of the drugs, it says not for use in animals meant for consumption. It's VERY common for horses to get these drugs. Most horses that are slaughtered from our country were NOT meant for consumption, so they have not met FDA or USDA standards to be a food animal. Incidentally, the FDA classifies horses as companion animals, just like dogs & cats.
Horses that end up at the slaughterhouse, were bought at auctions all over this country by dealers & then are sent to slaughterhouses. Again, none of those horses were raised for meat, so do not meet criteria mandated by FDA & USDA . Here's a few links about safety:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/vickeryeckhoff/2011/12/06/horse-slaughterhouse-investigation-sounds-food-safety-and-cruelty-alarms/
http://horsebackmagazine.com/hb/archives/13173
http://www.americanhorsemeat.com/uploads/Ppt0000002.pdf
Everyone's entitled to their opinion & there will always be opposing views...but based on my own research & experience with horses(race horses, competition horses, rescue horses), it's not something I'd feed my family. I hear in Europe horse meat is 14 to 22 dollars/pound. That's expensive!
There is a reason we don't produce food locally: productivity is increased by growing a crop in the environment to which it is best suited, hence the increasing spatial concentration of production.
"The model of a few generations ago, where food production was less mechanized and more regional, made for a healthier way of doing business and was more economically and culturally sustainable as well. "
And global wheat yields were less than 1/3 what they are now–it would take at least three times as much land to grow the same amount of food with the "healthier way of doing business" and a few billion more people would be chronically malnourished.
"America's food system is in crisis"
No it isn't. We are producing more and safer food than ever before, and yields continue to increase. A crisis may be coming in the global system, due largely to a diversion of research funds from productivity to environmental concerns. We don't throw away the non-meaty pieces of animals. We even use the bones and skin (and most horses do end up being processed for a variety or products).
Is it better for someone to get less to eat, and have the food that he gets be healthful or to get as much as he wants and have it be full of penicillin, phenylbutazone, and chemicals that are going to kill him sooner or later because they were in the meat of the animal.
Americans are very concerned about the way their food is being raised. As an adult who once lived on a dairy farm I remember how farmers used to care for their animals. Many, many farmers still do-but there are lots of places in the farm to table part of he chain where things can break down.
"Is it better for someone to get less to eat, and have the food that he gets be healthful..."
Your statement doesn't make sense from a global perspective, where we are most worried about the billion plus people who are chronically malnourished. This article was titled "Change the World" after all. Maybe a better title would have been "Five Foods that Will Make Your Diet More Interesting."
If feeding the world means slaughtering horses meant slaughtering horses, which it does not, I would leave the world to its own devices far away from our country. Where is it written that the U. S. has got to sacrifice our ethics, in order to feed the world. Our country has the responsibility to feed the people and the animals that belong to it. I am not opposed to sharing, but I see absolutely no reason why the U. S. should spend money paying for meat inspectors to inspect and test over 100,000 carcasses of horse meat each year when anyone with any connection to the horse world knows that this meat is full of banned for food animals substances. It is totally unethical to suggest that we feed the world food that is known to be carcinogenic, suppress bone marrow, cause kidney disease (think tens of thousands Central American farmers dying of kidney disease of unknown origin). Everything about horse slaughter is evil. And yes, I have been offered horse meat before while on a trip with a university group in Japan. We were all offered horse meat at a banquet. I rarely think about it, but knowing what I know now that this meat was probably from the U. S. I am certainly glad that I did not take it. This also points out that selling horse meat to foreign countries does not assure that contaminated meat will not harm Americans. I was on an outing with several other university traveling groups.
Wow... we Americans really do know it all, don't we? So far superior to every other nation in the world.
Offal is delicious when prepared correctly, and making the most of an animal is responsible. What Andrew says about the state of our factory-farmed meat is absolutely correct. We should be looking to alternative animal proteins that we traditionally shun for being "too cute."
If you have an open mind and have travelled internationally, you would realize what you are missing. This isn't a vegan/ omnivore debate (or shouldn't be), but the quality of the available meat in the US is just pain frightening.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply Jeepers. You apparently did get the message he was trying to send about not being so wasteful and myopic in our consumption in order to allow the whole of nature to maintain a sense of balance. Shame that many of the others here did not.
Glad it wasn't just me. Thanks @ another thought.
If you think that horse is going to improve the situation, you are misinformed. We do not raise horses for food, and most of them are treated with drugs that can and will kill you or someone you know and care about. Furthermore, poll after poll shows that 80 or more Americans oppose horse slaughter. In my opinion, trying to force horse meat on Americans will backfire on the meat industry because the more people push horse slaughter, the more people dig into the way the rest of our animals are treated as well as food safety, and i don’t think anyone reviewing this information is going to be jumping up and down asking for more meat. In fact, the push to slaughter America’s horses could very well start the decline of the domestic meat market.
Shame on CNN and most of all shame on Zimmern. This is NOT a 3rd world country and we that still have some sense will never let it happen. The majority of the US is strongly against horse, burro, etc. slaughter and will keep fighting until these awful horse slaughter people go away. We just finished a major battle here in MO against Slaughterhouse Sue Wallis and Unified Equine who wanted to put a horse slaughterhouse in MO an if we have to fight state by state, we will. Why doesn't CNN present this issue for news, since there has been a major outcry against horse slaughter.
Pigs are cute too, you know.
Just because you rode one as a child doesn't mean they are unfit as a meat source.
The levels of adrenaline and cortisol present in head-shot horse meat makes it unfit for human consumption. Ask a toxicology expert.
Real American's will Never Eat Horses or Burro's. This guy has his right to do what he wants but my tax money supports all meat businesses and I'm sick of all of them. I don't eat animals anymore but others can have at it but don't make me pay for it. Harvard just posted that after their long extensive study, red meat (that would include horse and burro) is very bad for you. But hey fat man, knock yourself out!
That Harvard study is bunk. If couldn't see through it yourself, here's a write-up as to why: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-eating-red-meat-kill-you/
Wild birds are good. Also, pigeons are easy to raise, and one pigeon is enough meat for a person. In hard times, there are plenty of them in the park, but the law, in its magnificent equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor from catching birds in the park and eating them... yes, that does sound a bit like Anatole France.
About the only thing I agree with (except making meals of birds besides the usual ones, and Zimmerman's take on that is elitist) is that we eat too much meat. I'm no vegetarian. I think we are natural omnivores. Some people take vegetarianism to the point of an eating disorder. But less than a quarter pound of meat every couple of days is enough, if you eat good vegetables and fruit.
It is a given that this so called man (how did he get a show?) will eat anything.....like a carp in human form he eats all......and now he wants to throw donkeys under the bus. Is this not the animal that carried the Wise Men ? and Jesus? Ok, leave religion out of it........no DONKEYS! Really and throw a horse in too? He is vile and disgusting ......and the Travel Channel should kick his "donkey" off the air. I have always loved the Travel Channel but could never watch his shows, I find watching a walrus roll in all that vile so called food to disgusting for me....
And, this is a perfect example of American's superiority complex. It may be wonderful for the rest of the civilized, Western, world, but here in the US it makes us squeamish and feel icky. We're just better then they are, right?
Right on Wendy! The man is an idiot! I don't give a damn what people in third world countries may have on their plates because they have to survive but he is making a game of publicizing the most outrageous items just to get us to write these comments.
He knows that the more crap he stirs up, the more people will watch his wretched show just to see how ridiculous and disgusting he can get.
People who are honestly concerned about the cruel and unnecessary practice of horse slaughter will turn off the t.v. when his show comes on and write his sponsors to let them know how much we dislike him and his show. Donkeys,burros,horses,etc. are not normally used for food. It should stay that way! I imagine Zimmern also thinks it's o.k. to kill tigers,bears and other innocent animals for their "parts" to be used in the backward Asian countries who think those body parts will give them health or vitality. UGH!
Really? Those poor third world countries like France and Germany have to eat whatever thay can to survive? You are foolish and sentimental when it comes to horses and donkeys.
Kathryn and Wendy, with all due respect, I know for a fact that there are many people who eat many parts of animals and many animals you believe are relegated to solely 3rd world consumption. And could you please, and I do ask this with sincerity, define what makes a place 3rd World in your opinion?
Well said "Another Thought".
Kathryn and Wendy need to wake up a bit. Clearly, neither of them has even a shred of knowledge about either culture or Zimmern to be taken seriously in these discussions.
PS Kathryn, I would caution you against "imagining" what Mr. Zimmern is thinking, has thought or will think as I'm not certain you grasped his basic premise of fully utilizing the meat from any animal and ecological preservation by ceasing over-fishing and over slaughtering any food source. I would also encourage you to rethink your use of the description, "backward Asian countries". While completely agree with your vehement distaste of slaughtering animals for parts, please remember that many of these "backward Asian countries" had running water and indoor plumbing before our current Western Civilization had either of these things. I applaud your passion. Unfortunately your choice of expressing your opinion is overshadowed by what can only be deemed narrow-minded and racist verbiage.
I live in Mississippi where obesity is beyond rampant. I understand some people eat meat, I chose not too. But enough is enough. I am sick of watching humans treat anything that moves like a meal. Horses and donkeys are service animals. We are not in a third world nation where we need these foods for survival. Stop treating animal companions as a meal and stop being so disgustingly fat. Red meats are unhealthy and fattening. Look at Andrew Zimmerman. He is fat and sweating like a pig in that picture as his arteries clog up after every meal. Simply vile.
You really need to refresh your research. It's actually grains that are the most fattening. Meat from organic pasture raised livestock is actually a healthy part of one's diet.
Read "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, "The Primal Blueprint" by Mark Sission, "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain PhD, "Protein Power" by Michael Eades MD & Mary Eades MD, "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price DDS. And watch "Fat Head".
"We are not in a third world nation where we need these foods for survival."
A highlight of your ignorance about cultures. Please go do some traveling or something or take some cultural studies classes or something before you continue to try to feed us with your ignorance.
For one, we generally avoid even using the term "third world nation" anymore in the scholarly world. Usually "developing nation" or something would be better. And 2, meat like horse, donkey, hell, even dog is eaten in plenty of places that are just as industrial as the US is.
Your audience does not live in the scholarly world.
True, but positive change has to start somewhere.
I love people from all parts of the world, and I'd like to know when I go to bed at night that I at least tried to do something to quell this hatred of people who are different.
It is amazing that a food "expert" would be so clueless about food. He complains about factory farmed chicken, but turns around and brags about eating horsemeat. Are you that clueless? No, really, are you that clueless? Horsemeat from the US is one of the most contaminated meats available. Since they are not raised as food animals they are given all kinds of drugs that will kill humans. Not a single drug approved for horses is approved for horses sold for meat to humans. Come on, be serious about recommending things. Don't just say stuff to be funny or appear clever.
Why do you think he is Bald?
Horse is really good, you should try some.
You can have my share of bone marrow destroying and carcinogenic phenylbutazone or nerve destructive ivermectin.
Sue, Sue, Sue, sweet, ignorant Sue. I think you're arguing two different points. He's pointing out the need to look at alternative proteins to beef and pork. You're pointing out problems with the current production of domestic horses in America (which isn't for human consumption, so it's really unrelated). If your points are taken and horses are produced for their meat instead of their current work/recreation potential, you both can coexist.
Alternate protein? Go vegan – TONS of plant bsed proteins that are certainly more friendly to the earth than flesh-based protein.
You have no idea what really goes into growing crops, do you? Sorry, but a vegan diet isn't as "cruelty free" as you think it is.
And I'd rather not have B-12 deficiency, milk so lacking in nutrition it can't support the life of babies I have, my children being behind developmentally, etc.
The vegan diet is an extreme and unhealthy diet. No culture has ever traditionally been vegan,.Vegetarian cultures highly prize the animal products (milk & eggs) they do eat. The only reason there are modern-day vegans is because of artificial supplements.
You are better off eating appropriately processed meat alternatives than getting Cancer from toxic levels of Adrenaline and Cortisol in the meat of bovines and equines. Look around you! How many people you know are battling some sort of Colon or Digestive Cancer because their diets are too high in fast food beef and not enough fresh organic vegetables... Stop feeding the machine - yourself! Wake up and you may live longer and healthier!
Karin Hauenstein, I would argue that people are battling those health problems due to a grain-based, low-fat diet.
Read "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes, "The Primal Blueprint" by Mark Sission, "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain PhD, "Protein Power" by Michael Eades MD & Mary Eades MD, "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" by Weston Price DDS. And watch "Fat Head".
AJ are you a corporate lobbyist for the big agri-business'?
The reason why she & others mention what is going on with American horses is because over 100,000 of them are being slaughtered every year & being shipped to Europe for them to eat. Horses in this country are bought at auctions by kill buyers, shipped to Canada & Mexico to be slaughtered & then shipped overseas. That is why it's a good idea to know what is going on with American horses. You are right-they are not raised for human consumption, but they are being marketed as food.
JAS1044, because I've read about healthy diets and I eat meat, that makes me a lobbyist? (By the way, if I were a lobbyist for big-ag, don't you think I'd be saying "eat more corn!"?) Why do the veg-heads always claim anybody that disagrees with them is a lobbyist or it's a conspiracy?
To answer your question: no, I'm not a lobbyist. I'm in favor of buying from small, local farmers whenever possible. I grew up on a farm and know how tough it is for the small farmers: for every big rich farmer, there's dozens of small farmers barely making ends meet.
Dear AJ, if you were an agri-business lobbyist you wouldn't be trying to defend corn sales, there is no need for that. It doesn't relate to this article at all (except for the football fields of forestry that are cleared every day to plant grains/seeds in order to feed the livestock which in turn feeds someone like yourself). Secondly, what makes me a "veg-head"? Because I'm aware of current day factory farms?
lsj401, the idea of pastured grass-fed beef escapes you, doesn't it?
Cattle are not meant to eat grain, it's not good for them, nor is it good for us humans eating it. (Grass-fed beef is leaner and higher in Omega-3s. Corn-fed beef is fattier and higher in Omega-6s. Most Americans are woefully lacking in Omega-3s and eat far too many Omega-6s. Corn-fed cattle also more easily harbor e coli because of their unnatural diets.)
I grew up on a farm and in a farming/ranching community. Your small, local farmers are not "factory farm" operations. They raise livestock on pasture, which is land that is usually unfit for crops because it is too hilly, rocky, or sandy. Many smaller farmers raise both crops and livestock, and rotate the animals onto the land when crops are cut. For example, after milo harvest, the field is fenced and the livestock are moved onto the land for several months to eat the stubble. During this time, their diet is often supplemented with hay bales. Where do these hay bales come from? Farmers sign up to cut & bale the ditches along roadways, and also cut & bale waterways between fields. It's a win-win, the farmers get food for their cattle, and the county saves money on mowing the ditches.
Almonds, walnuts, legumes, fish, seafood, free-range turkey and chicken
Sorry, No donkey, blood sausage or pig guts for this boy. I stay with beef feedlot steak.
Soylent Green is people!
Andrew Zimmerman disgusts me. When I saw him eat live octopus I knew that he was a complete piece of garbage. Some people love human flesh; maybe they can start with Zimmerman's fat a$$. He could feed a family for a few months.
I'd advise against eating Zimmern, considering what he's put into himself over the years. Think of the heavy metals & PCBs accumulating in his body. (Pretty good argument against cannibalism in general.)
Wow, your appaling ignorance is stunning! Please go eat some more ammonia treated pink slime, and have a shortened lifespan so the rest of us can have real food. You are the disgusting one, ignorant slob.
sounds like someone is a little above everyone else, you gotta love elitists.
actually we don't, we just tolerate them.
Good one Loriel! He is a disgusting piece of crap and even though he would feed a family for a month or more, no one would be able to stomach his nasty taste!
Loriel, you are the disgusting one. That was just an awful awful thing to say. I wouldn't say that about my worst enemy. You ought to grow up and learn some respect.
Robert !!!!Your the one who needs to learn respect, you ought to start learning it with the Horses, throughout History Horses have provided us with unlimited services for which you obviously have no Idea about , ignorance must be bliss for you !!!!!
Oooo – Andrew's coming out as a horse eater! Careful big fella – hell hath no fury like Horse Romantics.
;)
You are right though, broadening the American palate would be good on just about every count. Bison are better for the land and for people, rabbit is easy on the environment too – both are delicious. Deer are abundant and also native to N. America – unlike horses which ARE very hard on the land (altho we may need them for transportation again in the future)
Good luck getting people to eat this stuff though. Ironically, most Americans like bland, taste-alike food. Give 'em anything that tastes like real, unadulterated meat and they'll cry "It's gamey!" It might help if people remember that many of these good meats would cost you a small fortune in a fine restaurant, – which is the only kind of eating establishment you'd fine it in to begin with most likely.
We need to eat less meat in general – and what we do eat needs to be better meat.
Horse romantics? There is a great deal of hypocrisy in human consumption and I understand that completely. What makes one animal's life more valuable than another? I guess the problem most people have with eating horse meat is the unique relationship we have with horses. What they have done for humankind. It doesn't make it right for other animals but to not understand that thought is just ignorance. It is the same with dog mean consumption. After everything the domestication of dogs has meant to the human race; they lead our blind, find our missing and dead, protect our homes, give us completely devoted love and companionship, etc., we owe them that respect. I do not eat meat at all as that is my choice and believe me; if all of you great carnivores out there spent time in a slaughterhouse you would not look at your meat the same way. I am not saying you would stop eating it; but it would be a real eye opener.
People say all kinds of things about visiting slaughterhouses opening people's eyes. I have been to several and know many who have been to several. In my experience, more than half are not repelled at all. I was interested in seeing how it all worked.
JLS639.....if you did not find a slaughterhouse repellent, then you are showing what a cold fish you are. Any slaugterhouse is a sad and cruel place. Do you butcher your own meat? Maybe you raise your own beef, or perhaps you raise horses and when they get old or are no longer useful to you then you slaughter them yourself and hack them up for your freezer.
Whatever possessed you to make your comment? I find you a person that I would not want to meet. Good luck with your attitude.
Its the SMELL that's totally disguesting!
To you Kathryn, I say good luck with your attitude and thoughts that you can just pass judgment on any person with different beliefs and opinions than yourself. Try to keep a more open mind please okay. I for one think it would be quite interesting to visit a slaughterhouse and see how the process works as well.
@Loriel – Well said!
Yay, Loriel, go girl!!! I hear and like what you're saying.
Actually horses are native to the Americas. They migrated to Asia about 6 million years ago and learned to fear our ancestors who were not as good hunters as anatomically modern humans. When anatomically modern humans came to the Americas, they were great hunters and the naive horses did not know to fear them. The horses were hunted to extinction (along with most of the other big game).
The equine evolved in North American over 55 million years ago. Horses actually nurture land. After they eat and digest their food, they deposit the seeds of plants back into the soil and fertilize the soil. No animal is as destructive to land and riparian areas (water–ponds, rivers, springs) etc. as cattle.
Except for donkey, I've had of the above, plus gizzard, kidney, tongue, tripe (and horse meat). In many countries animal protein is hard to come by, so they waste as little as they can. These foods are not delicacies, just everyday food.
When it comes to waste, it is impossible to beat the efficiencies of a modern beef processing plant, where every single usable scrap of the animal is extracted.
Have a suggestion for you , this Country has many Rats, You could try them if you like eating them there are millions of them for you !!! you could be the Pied Piper of Slaughter for something that would rid our Country of disease and vermen , wow !!!! Thank You !!!!!
My father, a first generation American and one of 10 children, was raised on the family farm in Illinois. I remember him saying "the only things to go to waste were the squeals and the moos". Dad wasn't squeamish about eating anything! From pigs feet to cow tongue (and worse) to beef brains (and worse) to sardines with heads attached and even Limburger cheese. Nothing was outside of his taste palette because that was how he and his siblings were brought up. On the other hand, those of us born during the 50s and 60s (and not raised on a working farm) can't get past the sight of taste buds on cow tongue- I guess I'm not as adventurousan eater as I thought I was.
Andrew Zimmern is into gratuitous meat eating. You can tell just by looking at him. Fat, pasty, double chins. Karma is gonna get you, Andrew.
i think you summed it up pretty well John
Actually grain will make you fat much faster than meat.
but is grain likely to give you Cancer?
Sugar feeds cancer. Grains are sugar.
Does the grain cry when you separate it from the chaff?
Andrew Zimmerman is anything but charming and most closely exhibits the traits of a rat, as they will eat anything including their nest mates. Not having boundaries is as deadly as the toxins I hope he ingests from consuming horse meat. Our horses are not raised for meat. Period. We do not watch his show and I could care less if he has to eat his fellow rat to stay alive.
It's unfortunate that in the supposed veil of horse protection, you are expressing hope that a man becomes poisoned.
Unfortunately, in the process, you are poisoning everybody's perceptions of horse-lovers and damaging the cause of protecting our hoofed friends.
Next time, just make your point about horses being important to protect, and leave the hatred out please.
Until we realize that meat does not have to be the central part of our diet, we are doomed. We are just a selfish species and we deserve to suffer deeply for the evil we cause for animals.
If you're going to eat meat – whether a little or a lot – diversifying your taste and sources can only be a good thing all 'round.
So eating spareribs is less karma than eating pig ears? Whatever you say.
Yes, because eating what we evolved to eat is "selfish". Better tell the lion he is selfish for eating meat, and the rabbit is selfish for eating grass and vegetables, and the bats are selfish for eating insects.
You can deny and hate your physiological makeup all you want, it doesn't change the fact that humans are omnivores.
Very well said AJ!!!
What a repellent article! It's all meat meat meat and oh yeah, grow a tomato or two. Totally unhealthy. And singling out chicken factory farms as the worst? ALL factory farms are diseased torture chambers – that applies to all meat. And now this idiot has just sentenced donkeys to a life of factory farming ...
Donkey sounds pretty good; the rest of the world seems to do OK by it, along with horse. I imagine I'll have trouble finding any around here, though. But it's still worth a look.
And you might try actually reading the article instead of just vomiting forth bigotry and prejudice. If it's too hard for you, you might be missing a few amino acids in your diet.
You are right. The author has a meat oriented view of things. Time to see things differently.
He has good points about using more of the animal. Here in America, we don't eat much of the animal that other countries eat. It's wasteful. And if you're concerned about the number of animals eaten, that could actually DECREASE it. Instead of eating only the meat of 10 animals, we could eat the meat and organs of 6 animals and have the same amount of food. (Not exact numbers, just illustrating a point.)
I'll be the first to admit that I've never really eaten offal. I've had liver once, that's it. But I'm willing to try it.
What are you talking about? Not everyone wants to eat all parts of the animal, but there are enough different tastes and cultures that many people eat what other people do not. For example, chitlins, tongue, liver, gizzard etc.,
Sure, a lot of people eat those in other countries, and some people eat it in the U.S. But it's just not enough, and so much of it gets thrown out. And what is the result? MORE animals get killed to feed people's meat interests. His suggestion of offal is definitely a good one and is all about respect for and protection of animals.
This brilliant man has never supported factory farming, and certainly NOT in this article. And he never said that chicken factory farming is bad, therefore other kinds are good. He merely pointed out that what has been happening to chickens in this country has been PARTICULARLY bad. And that's something that MANY experts agree on. Are you only seeing what you want to see? You can't just say, "Hey everybody, this guy said A and B," when he NEVER even did. You're talking to reasonably intelligent adults here on the internet for the most part. You can't expect anyone to take you seriously if you're using toddler argument techniques of just making stuff up.
see name
Oh, yeah. You're that guy off "Spaceballs."
Howya doin'?
Absolutely correct....Offal is delicious, especially kidneys (my personal favorite...well other than sweetbreads). Nothing like some lamb kidneys sauteed rare and served with arugula.
Although I mostly agree with Zimmern, there's one big problem he doesn't address: availability. Even less controversial items like duck are very hard to find in most food stores, and when you get into offal, it's just not there at all unless you special order it or deal with a farmer directly. And because of this, it's all expensive, just because of its rarity. 30 years ago, every meat counter had tongue, kidneys, liver and other bits on display; now, you won't find it anywhere, and the resulting disappearance has made these items disappear from people's diets as well.
My interpretation of the article in that case is that you do totally agree with him. I kinda figured that's what he meant. Making these kinds of foods more available, and in turn, eating them.
It's a Catch-22, though; you won't get demand without availability, and you won't get availability without demand. Also working against availability is the rapid spoilage of a lot of organ meats compared to muscle; some of them are only salable for a couple of days, as opposed to nearly a week. There are more losses, then, so they're less popular with retailers, let alone the public.
There is a regional aspect to this, as well, I'd think. I know of many markets in Southern California that I can go in and get pretty much all of these meats/offal. Local Carniceria's have much of this, and if you get in good with a real butcher, they will set aside pretty much anything you ask them to. Easy money for them to earn something from what is typically trashed.
Eat what you want, but leave our loyal, companion animals out of it. Our horses, donkeys, burros, dogs, and cats are out of bounds. Eat, pork, squirrel, beef, elk, lamb, mutton, venison, quail, bison, goat, fish, rabbit, or whatever else. However, it is important to respect the values of a culture or a society when determining what you are going to support or not.
I have enjoyed meat most of my life, and I am not happy that as a result of people who want to kill and eat horses I am almost unable to buy and prepare meat. I go into a restaurant and get squeamish because I am afraid the meat I get will not be the meat I ordered, so I end up ending up ordering something vegetarian (which is always good). I may become an accidental vegetarian.
Amen, Andrew Zimmern, Amen.
Thanks alot vegans. I tried to celebrate meat out here at work today and got fired over it
I love blood sausages, it can be found in Louisiana.
I don't think this article is about big agriculture or eating vegetarian or anything else. It is about eating some really delicious and healthy things, like venison, rabbit, or really, actually, honestly garden-fresh vegetables, that are tough to come by in a lot of places but really shouldn't be.
Yoooo
According to the "man" who promoted eating a frog's beating heart for ratings, but hey I'm very supportive of foreign delicacies too. Let's send the fat man to New Guinea for the cannibals to cook up. It's ok it's part of their culture.
It is against biblical laws to eat live animals. Kind of cruel and barbaric, dont you think?
I need this guy with 5 chins telling me to eat he healthy??? He has a show on the grazing channel?
What a good christian you must be, citing biblical laws- then passing judgement on somebody strictly because of their appearance...
I totally agree, send him to go see what the cannibals like, and see if the cannibals like him! He seems so unconditionally ready to try anything, put any animal on his plate, has he ever thought that humans are just mammals? Hey, here's a thought! Let's all try some human meat! There are sooo many humans that are just wasting our resources, space, time and shared air. So, what do you think, people who will defend this disgusting man to the last breathe?
If it isn't wrong to eat donkeys or horses, animals who have ALWAYS been there to serve us when we needed, and been our loyal friends and companions, than why is it wrong to eat human meat? Tell me why that is illegal and oh so disgusting? I would rather see some of the disgusting humans in this world appear in grocery stores before our actually faithful companions.
I think this man, and a lot of you people defending him and calling the appalled people terrible things, need to think less about your stomach and what kind of extreme variety you want in your diet and maybe eat something actually healthy like vegetables, people need to slow down on their red meat anyways.
It is not like other countries who NEED to eat whatever they can, Americans are NOT starving. They are already eating TOO MUCH.
This is the most hypocritical and disgusting comment on here yet. Has it ever occurred to you that not everybody has the same opinion as you and that yours can't just be prescribed onto everybody else. That's just plain tyrannical. I've seen very few people defending Zimmern throwing out random insults the way you are. And certainly not saying the horrible things that you are saying. It's like you're suggesting that genocide of all those who YOU deem unworthy would be a good thing for society. That's horrible. You need to drop the tunnel vision goggles and look at things from a broader, more open perspective. It's like you're suggesting that everybody either only eats plants or only eats meat. That's ridiculous. Nay, on the contrary, most of us reasonable people are omnivores. I believe in environmental protection and animal rights as much as any activist, and that doesn't stop me from eating meat. It tastes good, and it is healthy. Humans have been herding, breeding, and raising animals for thousands years. For SURVIVAL. You don't have to eat meat if you don't want to. I won't force my ways onto anyone. But to condemn anyone eating it and acting like your the "good guy" here is just preposterous. I swear, your post is so ridiculous, it would put old James Bond villains to shame.
Why, Robert, should any one of us adopt your perspective?
I think nobody needs to specifically adopt my perspective. I think I've specifically advocated against that elitist way of thinking. I believe that my post that you have responded to makes it pretty clear how I feel and encourages tolerance of different view, unless of course those views are supportive of genocide or something like the one stated by the person I was responding to.
"Donkey is ideally suited for pasturing in America, the muscles can be portioned larger... " It takes an ass to eat an ass.
LMAO! Thank you.
Perfect... You said exactly what I was thinking!
Well said my friend!
Why no mention of fresh road kill? Heavens to betsy, broiled raccoon is scrumptious as is the occasional pre-flattened crow. Then again, deep-fried squished toad is easily mistaken for pork rinds and until you have sampled some slow-roasted road rabbit, you have not lived!
So folks, the next time your auto goes "thumpity thump" over some poor critter, do yourself and family a favor. Stop, retrieve and devour! Yummmmm.
A hoot! Thank you ... loved it!
What's funny about it? We pick up road kill if it's not badly damaged. Most of the time it is however.
It's really funny how people are so revolted by roadkill, but they'll eat any pink slime wrapped up in a package. Fools.
yep
Actually, a lot of rural areas have a "road kill list". If someone hits a deer, the sheriff's office calls the next person on the list to come pick it up. It's freshly killed, it hasn't been lying on the side of the road for hours or days.
Ugh, I cannot see myself eating donkey or pigs ears or bugs, etc unless I was absolutely starving to death! Blech!...
It all sounds delicious to me! :D
Bugs is not available. Hasenpfeffer, however, is. It's like saying you don't want to eat Bambi, but venison is great. Don't let the fictional characters stop you from eating the real critters.
I'm glad I can't see you doing that either...
Hunting and fishing is the only humane way to get meat for consumption. And no I don't mean pay someone else to do it – I mean YOU do it ALL. Once you pay for someone else to do the dirty work for you, you get factory farms, animal cruelty, tainted meat, poison for your body.
Not only is your slippery slope concept ridiculous and full of hyperbole, couldn't it be applied to plants just as easily as it could to meat. Should we just become a hunter/gatherer society again then?
That's one way to drop some pounds, haha! But I think he's saying that somewhere along the way, we lost something by depending on big agribusiness to raise, slaughter, and process meat. In that situation, animals are fed antibiotics and hormones, and eat unnatural diets. We then consume that meat. And there is the theory that anyone who eats meat should kill it themselves to be part of the entire process, rather than being handed a nicely packaged steak or whatever. Perhaps if we ourselves did the killing, gutting, skinning, some of us - not all of us, of course - would lose our appetite for meat.
Nonsense.
By all means, I hear you about the big business and and everything becoming so unnatural, I just felt that person's comment was way too exaggerated to not warrant a bit of criticism. After all, people can take other steps like buying locally produced meat from farm-raised animals.
And of course, there are other interesting factors that are all a part of the discussion of morality and everything too. It's no secret that all that factory produced, less healthy stuff is cheaper. Not everybody is in the same situation where they can afford the lifestyles that some people are so prone to try to force others into. Not to mention the differences in educational resources that everybody has. Yes, I believe food is a very interesting subject when looking at it in terms of all those little social factors.
So we should all arm ourselves and head out to the bush to shoot us some deer? Actually, my husband does hunt and we love deer but it's dangerous and crowded out there and mostly private property.
i do not think animals are "here for us"/ However to kill something yourself for food is much more honest than going to the grocery store and paying others to do what you would not or could not do and be totally oblivious to their complicity in doing so,
I have been an ethical vegetarian for 28 years.Like Shandi, I would not eat "meat" if my life depended in it. In some countries they eat dogs-we eat pigs,cows, chickens, turkeys!
Does that apply to gasoline too? How about bread, grow your own wheat, build a grist mill, grind it to flour and make your own. That is what my 4th great grandparents did in 1835.
There are local farmers who would be able to sell you meat without those things
Squirrels should be on everyone's dinner plate. Nasty, destructive little buggers.
totally agree.
Cole slaw is excellent with squirrel. Make a pan of brown squirrel gravy to put over mashed potatoes. A real Indiana treat.
They're adorable and that reminds me I need to put some peanuts out for them.
TODAY IS THE GREAT AMERICAN MEATOUT! Time to use your brain and your tastebuds for healthier and humane food choices. See http://www.meatout.org and go meatless for a day. Celebrate life, don't smother it in ketchup.
Sorry not eating meat is not healthier than eating grass fed meats and wild game. This is an undeniable fact.
Not true/ Watch specials by CNN’s own Sanay Gupta and also by cardiologists at the Cleveland Clinic. Heart disease is reversible.
yes!I have not used ketchep since I became a vegetarin 28 years ago.
Is today the meatout? Looks like I am going to miss the events again
Primal: Depends on how it is done
I feel bad mostly for those that have not tasted any other meat than the typical chicken, beef and pork. I mean, we as humans have been eating anything and everything under the Sun ever since the dawn of Man. To limit yourself to a handful of resources is a shame to us as an alpha species and for those few animal species that are suffering so very much due to Big Agriculture. This is what's so wrong with America.
Save a cow, eat a horse? Sure! Why not?
What's with the logic of not eating certain species because they're smart or cute? Relative to what? We eat octopus, which is an intelligent creature. I think they're cute, but they're tasty as all hell too! It's defintely dumb enough for me to catch, dispatch and eat.
Get off your high horse and eat it!
All quite true. Most people even turn their nose up at lamb, even though it is fairly easy to come by.
Where do you live? Lamb is very hard to come by here. We went to every grocery store in town and the next couple of towns looking for lamb and no one had any. I also love kidney, heart and some liver as it's not so good for you...cholesterol and it stores all the chemicals the animal ingests. I feed my dogs pig ears. I love rabbit too but have to order it from a farmer and it's expensive. I found no difference in taste from buying our friend's free range chickens and the store bought kind at 1/4 the price.
I can go out and catch salmon, but not sardines.
I think the smart and intelligent Donkey's of the world would secretly like us to eat Zimmern.
Great comment!
Gooooood Goooooooooood COMMENT.zimmerman makes me sick, and im very in shock with cnn.STOP HORSE SLAUGHTER AND DONKEY KILLING, thats what CNN SHOULD BE WRITING ABOUT AND HELPING WITH.
Sometimes I wonder if he is BSing when he eats some crazy stuff. "MMmmm! This poop on a stick rolled in ants is some good shlt!" Then gags on gizzards. I don't get it.
meh, it's understandable. Everybody has their preferences. I'll try bugs and pig ears and a lot of those more "bizarre" foods over a spoon of peas or a bell pepper any day. And I don't think he's ever eaten any fecal matter on any episodes to my knowledge...
Instead of bewailing horse slaughter, why not work on making it more humane?
Try a system of on-farm euthanasia by a trained slaughterman, with the carcasses then being taken to central processing facilities, for example–far less stress on the horse, better/more humane results, and you still have a useful meat animal.
Think about it...because just warehousing all these 'excess' animals isn't going to work for much longer...heck, it's not working now!
I don't think being concerned about this issue is "bewailing." You're implying that people are weeping and wringing their hands, when in fact, activists are working hard to fight the issue of horse slaughter. Re creating special scenarios for killing horses for slaughter - do we honestly need to be eating yet MORE meat? Do we obese Americans honestly need yet another steak of yet another type on our plates? To the point where we come up with a scheme for slaughtering horses to satisfy our rather over-done appetites? I'm not dissing you - I applaud you for trying to come up with humane alternatives, but, wow, I don't just don't think we need to add more meat into the mix. We have enough trouble coming up with humane ways for large processing plants that slaughter cows, pigs, and chickens. I would think by now, we'd be kind of sated in terms of our zest for meat ... but sadly, I suppose not.
The whole point of this was to say the meats we are eating is killing us! Red meat, over populated and poorly taken care of chickens, really fat pigs... What he is trying to show us is there are BETTER meats for us out there and not be affraid to try them. You, Hmmmm, are thinking the way every other ignorant american thinks. Another source of meat, you bet! Healthier, and leaner for you? You bet! So think outside the box huh?
Well, Patrica, thanks for calling me ignorant. Why don't you think outside the box and try going veg? If you're that open-minded, surely you could try something a little different too. So, Patricia, why don't you trying thinking outside the box, as you put it, huh?
hmmmmmm...sorry but people like you are just as much the problem as the normal dumb american. You think its a hippy vs the world thing. Its not people want to eat meat, there is nothing wrong with that we have been doing it for hundreds of years and only in the past 20 yrs have americans become fat as hell and becoming very unhealthy from eating things that are not natural. Hmmmm you and all your smelly hippy friends need to wake up and realize the meat eaters arn't your enemy the production plants of most meats and fish are. They are more interested in profits then making sure their kids and friends are healthy and have a long life. Everyone involved in these production plants from owners to truck driver are the reason america is becoming a joke. It makes me sick fu everyone
Hmm, I understand your offense to Patricia's comment. Aside from perhaps coming off a bit rude and stepping a little far by basically calling you ignorant, she did make good points though. Your comment suggests that becoming vegetarian is some sort of challenge that everyone should do. I myself for example could easily become vegetarian, and if I thought that eating animals was wrong, I would. No problem. I enjoy a great number of foods of all kinds, and will even find myself enjoying some vegetarian foods even more than ones that include meat. But the fact of the matter is, I see nothing morally wrong with eating meat. I find it to be normal, acceptable, and really to be exactly what nature intended for humans. And when done right (not all that deep fried fast food crap) it is quite healthy too. I think this article by Andrew is all about trying to get the food industries on a better track, and I support it 100%.
Actually, I was specifically challenging Patricia, LOL. I appreciate your thoughtful comment, thank you. I disagree, and many researchers do, that nature intended man to eat meat. But I do understand that many researchers disagree with my statement and do indeed believe we were intended to eat meat. I myself tread a slightly weird line and hope that people who choose to eat meat also patronize and encourage humane raising and slaughtering of the animals. I have read that horses are a special case in terms of slaughter because they are flight animals. (I need to research that more, but it's info worth exploring if we as a society talk about eating horses.) I have moral qualms about eating meat, but I understand when/if people don't, like you. It won't help if I sling insults at you or anyone else; we can all just try to understand each other's viewpoints with courtesy as best we can. On my side, I shouldn't have let Patricia's remarks cause my rather childish response. I guess we're truly all perfectly imperfect, LOL.
so, animals are here for us-to eat, to wear, to experiment on, to use for entertainment. Isn't this an anthropocentric slelf-serving myth.?
Right on Andrew!
While I got to try eating a lot of different interesting and unique foods in a couple of my own travels, I unfortunately missed my chance at donkey in China when I saw it on the menu, and horse in Japan, where I know some of my friends had tried it. I did eat some delicious little fish in China though. It's nice to know they're so healthy too. Your points about goat and other hoofed animals are great too. I've tried goat at enough Indian and Mediterranean restaurants to know it's delicious. And anybody who's a fan of burgers but has yet to try a venison, elk, or buffalo burger is really missing out.
Oh, and no kidding about the poultry in this country. There's just no comparison to those chickens that get to run around the farm and live healthily compared to the fat greasy cage fed chickens that Americans are constantly scarfing down, nugget by nugget.
And not only were the fruits and vegetables that I've grown throughout my lifetime with my family delicious, working on the garden was also a great way to spend time with the family and enjoy some sunshine outside, and as a kid, it was a great way to learn a bit more about some good work ethic.
If I ever catch Zimmern in my pasture, I will string him up like the flimsy POS he is. Stay away from my donkey and my horses! They are NOT food.
Yours may not be, but as far as I know, Andrew Zimmern doesn't make it a habit to just raid random people's pastures and kill and eat their animals. But what would be so wrong with other people raising and breeding animals like horse or donkey specifically for the purpose of consumption? I'd be thrilled to get the chance to eat these new foods, and I know it could help boost economies and combat food poverty as well.
But... but... you CAN'T eat a horse! It's, um... cute! Please, don't eat a cute animal. Uh, horses are... smart! You can't eat a smart animal. Horses are... meat! No, not meat, horses aren't meat, they're made out of snuggly love. Don't eat them, for God's sake!
Did you mean "KFH?"
But some animals aren't cute and it is okay to eat them?Hmmm
But they feel pain and can suffer and do not want to be slaughtered
Because horses and donkeys are not livestock. Look up horse slaughter on google and check out how they die.
Pretty much everyone else in the world disagrees. Horse meat, for example, is extremely common in Europe and Asia; donkey's popularity was already mentioned in the article.
Something else you won't like much: lots and lots and lots of people eat dog, too.
You are right on.
Do your research Andrew. While I am a big fan I would never recommend ANYONE eat horse meat in this country. There are no horses that are raised for human consumption and the chemicals that the average horse ingests just in their monthly wormer is enough to turn you off. It should anyway.
I am a horse owner and my horses would be put down before they would end up at the inhumane slaughter plants that are potentially opening back up in this country. Even if I believed in horse meat consumption they are not meant to be eaten with all the medication and supplements they ingest on a daily basis.
For Example: My Welsh pony receives her monthyly wormer (rotated depending on the type of wormer and the season), her daily Pergolide for her Cushings Syndrome, and MSM for her joints and lung issues. My Appendix Quarterhorse receives a supplement to help her hormonal issues and MSM for her joints. I wouldn't wish that tainted meat on my worst enemy.
I don't think anywhere in there did he suggest that people just slaughter the next horse they see and eat it. Of course people should not eat food that has been chemically treated to the extent that you are saying. But why not have people start raising horses with the intent on butchering them for consumption? If that were the case, then those horses would not be getting the same kinds of chemical treatment that yours do. Your argument or point that you are trying to make doesn't make any sense Amy.
Robert, the point is that they are not currently treated that way and are not safe for human consumption. My horses are the norm. The medication and supplement industry in this country is a booming business. I myself buy from Smartpak, which is a huge company based on selling supplements to horse owners. Go to any tack shop in the nation and you will find aisle after aisle of supplements fed to horses to help them in some way which renders them unsafe for human consumption. These are the horses who are sent to slaughter. It could be anyone of them. Think about all of the chemicals that went into off the track Thoroughbreds, and they are a huge percentage of the horses that are currently sent to slaughter in Canada and Mexico. It's not like they are testing them before they slaughter them, it's all the same to them.
Amy Posted...
"Go to any tack shop in the nation and you will find aisle after aisle of supplements fed to horses to help them in some way which renders them unsafe for human consumption. These are the horses who are sent to slaughter. It could be anyone of them. Think about all of the chemicals that went into off the track Thoroughbreds, and they are a huge percentage of the horses that are currently sent to slaughter in Canada and Mexico. It's not like they are testing them before they slaughter them, it's all the same to them."
This all seems very unlikely to me. You're making very bold claims that you would need to back up with some hard evidence before any reasonable person starts believing you. I'm not saying I'm certain that it's all untrue, but what I'm saying is I doubt it.
And even so, yet again, Andrew isn't saying to just eat any old horse in the country. Obviously he would never start telling people, "Hey, you should start eating dangerous chemically treated horses." It's about the idea of bringing them strategically and obviously safely into breeding for the purpose of eating. That's why the point that you are making is invalid. It's like you're arguing about apples with nobody while everybody else is talking about carrots. You're on a whole different tangent.
Robert, start by going to http://www.smartpak.com. It is a company that is now a multi-million $ company based on selling and distributing supplements for horses. I have been in the industry for a long time, even today I fed my mare phenylbutezone for an inflamed leg. My pony has had it a lot. You really do not want to eat a horse that has ever had that but it is very commonly used as horse " aspirin" for injuries and pain. My local tack shop alone has over 2 full aisles of supplements meant to be ingested by horses for various reasons, and then there are the topical products used like DMSO etc.
This is real. The horse industry is huge, the horses who are sent to slaughter were once show horses, race horses, old lesson ponies, peoples' pets who had all of this used on them at some point and then were sent to auction for whatever reason. Do a search for Camelot auctions or new holland auctions, you will see the horses that are sent off.
Thank you for your respectful post Amy, I might check out those camelot or new holland auctions and see what they're about. As for smartpak, that doesn't matter to me. I don't doubt that. But what I'm saying is that it's irrelevant. If horses were to begun being eaten with any regularity in the US, obviously, the idea would be to breed them specifically for that. That would mean those horses that people would potentially be eating wouldn't be getting any of those harmful chemicals. It's interesting that you point out about these chemicals, and it certainly is even more interesting if these "toxic horses" really are being eaten by people somewhere, but I'm quite positive that's not what Andrew Zimmern is supporting. So don't condemn the man or anyone else in this discussion for that which we have not even done wrong.
Thanks, Amy, good post. No animal should have to suffer the horrendous process our slaughtering plants put them through; it's even worse for a flight animal, like a horse. I also take offense to his comment that the horse is "another animal we should be eating." I don't appreciate and agree with the recommendation! I hope the author finds something better to do with his time than zestfully slurping up donkey, horse, and other animals, and happily writing about it.
Im sure other people in other countries don't appreciate the way americans slaughter animals everyday. It doesnt matter to me what you are eating, on the whole, in my opinion, other countries (especially in africa) are very respectful to their food and more thankful for it. why do you think in other countries they use EVERY part of the animal? $ is an issue yes, they cant be buying filet mignon every day, so they work around it. Id o agree that we shouldnt be slaughtering horses etc unnecessarily, but we are wasting so much food and only scratching the surface or what we could be taking advantage of. BUGS also, they are huge in asia, i have tried them, delicious and nutritious. granted, bugs can be viewed quite a bit different from horses, but im sure ppl have the same soft spot for bugs as you and Amy have for horses. I can honestly say that most of the negative comments on here are uneducated, and mostly american bias/culture/social norms/what we deem to be "okay" or "alright". just because WE dont eat it/do it, DOESNT MAKE IT WRONG or somehow inhumane because we arent used to it. Try to explain to me how a small village in africa raising a few camels for transportation, and eventually food, while only wasting 10% or less of the animal, is somehow "the wrong thing to do"
So are you never going to visit Canada again? Cause you can buy horse meat there... Americans are so ignorant. I raise my own rabbits to eat, and my own goats, for both meat and and milk (nothing better than young kid!) So grow up america, we are not always right.
So, Patricia, every single American you know is ignorant? I would say you're stereotyping people by saying that. Great that you eat your own animals, but not everyone agrees with that. That's life, Patricia ... not everyone has to agree with you. We can all agree to disagree without slinging insults at each other and wrongfully terming others "ignorant."
In some countries they eat dogs and we are aghast. In the US we kill and eat billions of cows ,pigs, chickens, turkeys, and other sentient beings .We are not aghast.??????
"The world must become vegan in order for us to survive." (Einstein, ( he was not a vegetarian in spite of popular belief)
Unfortunately Amy, I think it is you that needs to do the research. About horse meat, and mostly about Zimmern. Have you seen his show? Not only is he not close-minded like you and many other Americans, he is consistently respectful to other cultures/people/food/religion/anything you can think of. To say that he is uneducated or doesnt know what he's talking about is blasphemy at the very least. Not only is he educated and well-versed in global food as well as cultures, he probably knows more about food than you or I ever will. As for the horse meat, the other guy is right about your statements. People in other countries who are eating horse are not feeding them massive amounts of pills as you describe. Why would they?
Chris, Amy has a right to her opinion. She feels strongly that it's wrong to slaughter horses ... are you not doing the same thing to her you're accusing her of? This is her norm, and her mores. Plus, she lives in this country, not in Africa. And because it's okay in another country, doesn't make it okay in this country. You could also look at it that way. We shouldn't judge, but we do have the right to our own opinions based on our own cultural preferences.
Agreed, a little bit.
"We shouldn't judge, but we do have the right to our own opinions based on our own cultural preferences."
–of course we do, but when our own "cultural preferences" are blinded by american standards/mores etc, and we cant even begin to accept what other people eat/do, then our "preferences" are solely based on USA and what we know, not on trying to learn and educate ourselves, and in turn we are becoming ignorant of whats out there. respect to your comment tho. I see what you are saying. mark my words tho, its only a matter of time until america opens up its palate per se. either by choice or because we are left with no choice-
80 percent of Americans (according to a recent ASPCA survey) are against horse (and donkey) slaughter. Reckless, cheeky comments about equine consumption do not reflect most Americans' views. There is no market for horsemeat in America for a reason: We hold horses in the same “favored animal” category as cats and dogs. Eating horsemeat is culturally repugnant here. Horses now, dogs and cats tomorrow?
Susan24 posted...
"Horses now, dogs and cats tomorrow?"
Sounds good to me! I think it's silly that people can't think of a species of animal as being both available to being a pet and being a food. It's not like people who live in parts of China where dog is consumed just sneak into their neighbors' houses and steal their pets to eat them. I'll judge my animals in that regard on an individual basis. I don't see why other people can't do that.
Just to clarify... Would I eat my pet or anybody else's? No, of course not. But I certainly wouldn't mind trying some dog or even cat one day. I bet it could be quite tasty. Hell, some women eat their own placentas after giving birth.
The point is there are NO HORSES in this country bred for human consumption. They are all tainted. Even those that are rounded up from the wild are then given wormer. It's what is done. In the Netherlands they are bred for human consumption and there are whole herds that are treated as stock cattle would be. In the US they are not and they are not SAFE to eat. Regardless of how I feel about horse slaughter. If the process were humane in the slightest I wouldn't have a problem with it. It is not and shouldn't be done and shouldn't be eaten. Simple as that. I've been in the horse industry for over 30 years, I know what reality is for the horses.
Amy, I understand how you feel, believe me. Is there research on what I alluded to in another post, about horses being flight animals, and thus the slaughter process is ten times worse for them? And I'm not at all saying that it's a pleasure for cows, pigs, or poultry by any means. I find our appetites disheartening somehow - as if we're greedy children with greasy chins, grabbing at whatever we feel like consuming. We over-consume resources and we over-consume food. Anyway, yes, I'm a horse lover too and it's especially hard to hear folks talk about eating these magnificent creatures. Yet I understand that if you're a meat-eater, meat is meat, whether it be horse, cow, pig, chicken, etc. I don't think any of us want any creature to suffer for our appetites - perhaps that's one commonality we can all build from. (Please, for those posters about to leap in now with something rude/immature/nasty, please don't bother. Nothing new you can say or contribute.)
Even if what you are saying is true, which seems doubtful to entirely be the case, as your posts are jam packed with exaggeration and hyperbole, it still is NOT RELEVANT. NOBODY is saying to eat unsafe horses, what people are saying is suggesting to breed them for the purpose of slaughter and consumption. If you really are such an expert, you would not be feeding people such fact-skewing hyperbole unless you just have some kind of agenda which would mean that you are biased to the point of being completely untrustworthy. Your example of the Netherlands is about the only relevant thing you've added to the discussion.
It's obvious that Amy doesn't know what a taint is or what hyperbole means.
There is no humane way to slaughter an equine in a commercial environment. Men with very large, very sharp knives would be impaled by these animals fighting for their lives, which is what frequently happens... Any people who are on this thread advocating raising horses for human consumption are ignorant, greedy fools.
Do the research yourself. Look up a head-shot horse slaughter video and see for yourself the pulsing of the animal post shot, which is evidence of the extreme amounts of Adrenaline and Cortisol these animals produce being flushed into their flesh because of the head trauma. The person who made the comment referring to the Commercial Slaughter Process as being much, much worse for horses, you are completely correct.
If you want to become a tortured animal, eat a tortured animal. There is reason why human beings for many ages and in many countries never eat horse meat. It is unfit for human consumption, causes Cancer and other disease.
Yes you do amy.
Karin, your first sentence is completely objectively false. And so is your last paragraph. Basically, this post is a sandwich where the 2 slices of bread are just great big lies that you are trying to feed us.
You're fighting for a cause which is not necessarily bad, but you're doing it in such a bad and deceitful way, that the only result really is that you are pitting people against each other who may very likely not even disagree very much.
Robert you are a Troll and an idiot. I most certainly know what I'm talking about and have received national media attention because of it. I suspect you are a pro-commercial horse slaughter plant, likely connected to Wallis and Duquette directly. If "dark cutting" in beef, which is "bad kills" on the line, does not produce levels of adrenaline and cortisol in beef greater than is allowed by law then why is it monitored and regulated by the USDA and costs the Commercial Beef Industry millions every year? To say that adrenaline and cortisol would not be present in horse meat, with the same inhumane head-shot kill process and an animal that is bred SPECIFICALLY for increased adrenaline production is beyond ridiculous. You are the liar and I also suspect you are a plant.
Well that certainly was rude Karin. Do you call me names and make wild accusations because you have no logical arguments to prove your lies. I don't doubt that you are educated, but you are so biased and unable to look at things from any perspective except for your tiny little one, that your points are nothing but lies. I don't know about commercial slaughterhouse businesses, nor of these headshots you speak of. But surely, any intelligent person can tell you, "there's more than one way to skin a cat", or in our discussion, which you attempt to derail into an argument with your insults and deceit, there's more than one way to kill a horse. You can't take one video of a horse being slaughtered inefficiently, and say that EVERY horse slaughter possible will have the exact same results. That is false, and if you are the intelligent person that you try to pretend to be on the internet, you know that by spreading falsities, you are LYING. Additionally, human beings HAVE eaten horse for many ages, in many locations. And it has been completely healthy, so your last paragraph was also false, and by stating it as if it was truthful, you were LYING again. Now, I've caught you in your web (or sandwich) of lies, so please stop spreading them and messing with people's heads Karin.
Your supposed "national media attention" is irrelevant, even if it is true. Not all attention is given for good reasons. Lastly, we are not here on this site discussing animals bred for increased adrenaline. We're talking about the possibility of them being bred for consumption. You are on a completely different tangent Karin, so far from the discussion at hand that you are basically arguing with nobody but yourself. But you are using those irrelevant tangents and outright lies to try to prove other points which they just simply cannot logically do.
Lastly, you know NOTHING about me, so it's extremely ARROGANT of you to try to act like you do. I am many things, none which are connected to any meat slaughtering or packing plants. I would never go as far as to show you the same disrespect that you have shown for me. And I suggest that in the future, leave the disrespect and name calling out of your arguments, because among intellectuals and pretty much adults in general, it will likely lead you to nowhere except for alienation from your peers, and you will only be able to blame yourself. You are the last kind of person that I would want fighting for animals, because if you can't even respect a fellow human being, I find myself unable to believe that you can respect animals.
I'm not talking about choice Chris. I'm talking about the safety of eating the meat. It is not meant for human consumption.
There is horse meat for sale at our local farmer's market but it's imported from England.....I'm in Canada.
He's so right. We've been brainwashed to believe that only certain proteins are edible or acceptable. So crazy because your digestive system doesn't care and knows no difference. I can't stand Big Agriculture. It's a monster and nothing but profit in mind shelling out chemically induces garbage labeled as "food". I like his suggestion about local farmer's markets and CSA's, too.
Healthcare is not subject to normal market forces! Anything that you have to buy at any random moment in order not to die is not something to which a rational supply/demand calculus can apply. Check out "Penny Health" articles on how to reduce the cost of insurance.
Andrew certainly knows what he's talking about. He couldn't be more correct about exactly how these foods – and food perceptions – can literally change the world. Embrace them. If nothing else, they will change YOUR world, and in doing so, will eventually (with enough people) change the WHOLE world. I'll bet that if he could have listed a few more items, he would have mentioned insects too... so much cheap and tasty protein...
Hemp protein is one of 2 plants – soy being the other... that can sustain the life of human over extended periods of time... HEMP FOR VICTORY.
Soy is not the protein source you claim it is, Susan. If someone has a thyroid condition or they are male, they can't just consume it to their body's content. It's a goitrogen and it mimics estrogen. For the ladies, everything in moderation. You can get protein from many other types of beans, too.
the research on the negative effects of soy because it "mimicking" estrogen are sketchy at best. And besides, as you said, moderation is always important. And unless you are just massively consuming extreme amounts of soy, research suggests you will not be receiving any harmful effects from eating it. After all, it's eaten all the time all over eastern Asia and they're doing just fine with it.
Robert, isn't their soy processed differently, though? I thought "our soy," for want of a better term, is less healthy because of the harvest process or the lack of fermentation in its processing. We don't eat it the Asian way, which is supposed to be the healthier way, I believe.
Susan mentioned planting soy & hemp, Hmmm. Fermented soy (such as soy sauce) has been found to be safe for thyroid patients because the fermentation process eliminates the goitrogenic properties from the beans. Evolutionarily speaking, Eastern culture has been consuming soy, in all forms, for much longer than Western culture. So it may take some time before our Western physiology becomes accustomed to the some of soy's side effects. As with all foods, soy effects everyone differently.
Lentils>Soy
yes,yes. No dead animals on my platei. ahimsa
I have been vegetarian for 33 years. I definitely prefer lentils to soy
Pig ears sauted with green onions, soy sauce and a little vinegar is incredibly tasty!
Oink oink!