 Food brings people together. A great deal of bonding can happen over a pot of soup, but when one person wants chicken noodle while the other wants vegetable, it can turn into a food fight - and not of the John Belushi variety. Couples expect the normal relationship woes – sex, money, respect – but with the growing prevalence of dietary restrictions and interfaith marriages, the kitchen is increasingly turning into an all out turf war. This shouldn't be a surprise, says psychotherapist Karen Koenig – food is an "anything-but-simple subject." Dean Thompson, 41, of Austin, Texas, and his girlfriend, Amanda Abbott, 39, know the anything-but-simple nature of food all too well. Thompson is a vegan; Abbott is not. "The first time I brought Dean over to my family's home for a meal and he just put salad on his plate, passing up most of the huge gourmet meal my father had cooked, I remember thinking this might be a problem," says Abbott. "At first, I knew it was an issue, but did not notice or think of it as such a big issue," says Thompson. "Most people I was around did not eat like me, so it was not so 'weird' for me to be different in that way." While the couple says there were always moments of contention, Abbott and Thompson said their culinary contingencies reached boiling point when their now 2-year-old daughter was born. They have since started counseling. At the time, Abbott was struggling to produce enough breast milk for the baby and Thompson suggested they feed their daughter vegan-friendly almond milk. "Dean did his due diligence in showing me some studies, and after a long discussion with our pediatrician, I surrendered," says Abbott, who admits she is a cheese lover and grew up on cow's milk. "This was extremely hard for me since most of our friends and family were in my ear with their opinions on how crazy it was to only give a growing child almond milk." While neither says they will change from omnivore to vegan or vice versa for the other, Abbott says she does find herself cooking more vegetables and eating more healthily. "I had done the 'regular American diet' for more than 30 years previously. I know what it is like and I have no desire to go back to it," says Thompson. Lindsey Rosenberg, 27, and Daniel Weisinger, 31, an engaged couple who live in Berkeley, California, say they also argue about how their child will eat, even though that child doesn't exist yet. Both are Jewish – they met on the Jewish dating Web site JDate.com – but Weisinger keeps mostly kosher, avoiding pork and shellfish products. When they started dating, Rosenberg confesses she just thought he was picky and that her home cooking would change his ways. "I was dearly wrong," she says. "If I ever bring bacon or shrimp into the house to cook for myself, it's like I may as well have brought in rotting fish guts," says Rosenberg. "You know how a small child reacts to broccoli on their plate? That's how he reacts to those foods in our home. He insists on turning the stovetop fan on full blast, opening all the windows. It's a hilarious reaction." Like Abbott and Thompson, it came down to compromise. When they started dating, Rosenberg refrained from cooking any pork or shellfish and changed her ordering style at restaurants so they could share dishes. To reciprocate, Weisinger always made an effort to eat whatever Rosenberg cooked that was within his dietary restrictions. "In our early months together, I made a quinoa dish with turkey sausage (instead of pork sausage) and kale. Quinoa and kale were totally foreign to this picky eater, but he didn't make a peep, even though I could tell it was a stretch for his more conservative palate." Relationships, like gravy, aren't always smooth, and couples must learn how to whisk through the bumps, says Ramani Durvasula, a licensed clinical psychologist and professor of psychology. Here a few of her tips: Respect: Regardless the reason for the choice – religion, ethical conviction, medical – it is critical that one person not mock or otherwise ridicule or put down the choices of another partner. That runs both ways: If one person is a committed vegan, he or she may need to get off his/her high horse and not make it a moral indictment of the partner who does not choose to eat that way, because that is a choice that may not be amenable to that partner. Find ways to voice preferences that are not disrespectful. Communicate: Such different choices only work if there is clear communication about grocery shopping (perhaps one person will not buy meat for the other), meal planning, restaurant choices etc. Compromise: If the person with more restrictions also does the bulk of the cooking, then there may need to be a way to meet halfway so one doesn't feel there is no choice but vegetarian, etc. It may also require both parties to step up to the plate and cook together. Meet halfway: Cook together or surprise each other with a restaurant choice that suits the preferences of the other. Be an opportunist: If the husband is a card-carrying vegetarian and finds it hard to go to places where steaks are the "thing" on the menu, but the wife loves her steaks, then a great time for the wife to eat her beloved steak is on a girls' night or at lunch. Create space: In some dietary restrictions (like kashruth), there should not even be proximity of one food to utensils, pans, etc. Create zones in the kitchen that respect those choices. |
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It's pretty much a food psychosis when mother is convinced "almond milk", a highly man-made processed product, is better for a new born baby than it's mother's milk. Now if these people were fanatic Santorum fans, that would be the ultimate in brain washed insanity.
Did you even read the story? The mother was having problems producing enough milk, and it was the father that suggested the almond milk. Good grief.
I just went vegan a few weeks ago after being vegetarian for over a year. My boyfriend is a meat-eater, but I don't think it really is an issue for us yet. I cook almost all the time. When he wants meat he cooks some. No biggie. Everything I make is delicious anyway.
i used to eat animals and animal products. but i've come to realize the effects of those habits - i don't want to hurt animals, i want to protect the planet for future generations, and i'm also vegan for food justice (human rights) reasons. i would find it difficult if not impossible to be in a shared household or in a relationship with someone who didn't share my values of compassion and justice for other people, for the planet, and for animals. granted, some are not yet aware of the impacts of our food choices on others; but once one knows, the decision becomes one of "i want to help" vs. "i don't care, i like 'my' steak, milk, cheese, fill in the blank." i couldn't be with someone who put their eating habits above the needs and lives of others. i like the video at VeganVideo (dot) org. it's pretty short and not graphic if you have time to watch it to understand why so many people are choosing vegan. :)
If you wanted to protect the planet, then why are you eating what is good for the planet?
Plants release oxygen into the air.
Animals only release carbon, and methane.
Yet you eat what's good for the planet, and not what's bad for the planet.
and youre vegan for "human rights" reasons? What human rights are being violated by omnivores?
You wouldn't share your home with someone who didnt share your compassion, or values for human life?
You make no sense what so ever!
First of all "compassion" means to understand or accept for others what you do not understand or want for yourself.
Secondly, what does being vegan have to do with "values of human life"? You do know that omnivores, dont eat people, right?
you must be extremely blissful. Because you are most extremely ignorant. And if ignorance is bliss, then your bliss must be unsurpassed!
Eat some turkey, or fish, cuz clearly the vegan style has left a big hole in your brain, that is seeping out stupidity in great volumes!
On most any summer weekend, I can take a forty minute drive to the mountains of Colorado, and within hours, catch my limit of trout. From there, I can eat for about a week. Fried or blackened are my preferred emthods of cooking. My environmental impact is a dang site less than yours given the amount of pesticides you support putting into the soil, not to mention all the effort it takes to transport.
How about thsi: You do your thing, and I'll do mine. Or is that too simple?
Truth.....sounds good to me. I am a long time veggie, but what you say sounds like a reasonable position. While the trout doesn't sound like something I want, the mountains of Colorado thing is enticing,
Okay Gandhi, I bet you also LUV cats and can't stop thinking about cats. You want to hug every cats, right?...
I am not a vegan, but I do understand that for some people, certain lifestyle decisions are more or less their personal "religion." I think it's ok not to marry someone who does not share your deepest beliefs. I might be a little more confused if you refused to have any non-vegan friends, but I don't think we should be so hyper-critical of someone who is self-aware enough to recognize their limits in an intimate relationship. Whereas other people jump head-first into a relationship and assume they can sweep profound moral and lifestyle differences under the rug, at least this person is taking an honest look at what he/she can handle.
It doesn't matter if your omnivore, or herbivore!
Everything you eat turns to s*hit!
Here's an oldie, but a goodie:
– How can you tell you are talking to a vegan?
– Oh, don't worry, they will tell you. Repeatedly.
Wow, can't argue with someone who claims to have a trademark on the truth (capital T)
1). soy should never be given to baby boys, as it turns into estrogen (a female hormone) when you eat it.
2). Cheese is not a vegetable, so if you eat it, you are "not" vegan!
3). Corn is not a vegetable, its a grain and contains gluten!
4). Meat eaters dont hate animals!
5). Just because you dont eat meat, doesn't mean you dont eat dead things. Remember any vegetable or fruit you eat was alive, before you killed it and ate it!
5). A food allergy is not a choice!
6). Vegans are not "allergic" to meat.
7). Don't not eat meat because of dogma, god doesn't care if you have a burger on Friday.
8). Vegans must take a large amount of supplements to maintain health.
9). Pork is not the food of the devil. (have you tasted bacon? Its heavenly!).
10). Vegans dont live any longer than omnivores.
"5). A food allergy is not a choice!" BTW, nice list. An addendum to your list: barring anaphylaxis, having an allergy to something is not something you can declare simply because you broke out in a rash, had an intense toilet episode (ITE) or because you believe it to be true. If you haven't been tested, you cannot truly claim to have an allergy – chiefly because you could be wrong about what you had a reaction to unless that food item is all you ate.
I thought I was having an ITE from eating rare beef. After having my blood tested for food allergies, it turned out I was allergic to, among other things, garlic. I've tested this on several occasions since being tested and, yup, sadly, it's the garlic.
100% right you are! If you suspect a food allergy you should get tested. Ige and sometime even igg blood test (RAST test), or the skin prick test.
But to the vegan in here that can't bare to be with someone because of what they eat, you dont need a prick test, as you've left little doubt that your a prick! (pun intended).
PS: sorry to read, that your allergic to garlic. It seems when we become allergic to something its generally something we really enjoy!
furthermore, at first glance a garlic allergy doesn't seem so bad. But when you realize that most restaurants put garlic on nearly everything, and nearly all processed food (even at the super market) has garlic in it. then you realize how difficult it is to avoid it. And how easy it is to have a reaction to something you thought was safe.
food allergies are serious, and complicated to live with.
Vegans aren't vegan to live longer. We do it because we believe in it. We feel being vegan makes a difference in the world. All plants have some amount of phytoestrogens. And we don't take a "large amount of supplements to maintain health." That's total bull. Dietitians recommend everyone take supplements because it's hard to get the right amount of all nutrients. The only supplement I take is one 250mcg b-12 pill once per week. That's such a large amount, right? Idiot.
I didnt say that vegans were vegan to live longer. I just said vegans dont live longer. Don't put words in my mouth.
And soy doesn't have "some" phytoestrogens, soy has large amounts. So large that they interfere with normal hormonal balance. So why some doctors "believe" they may help protect you from heart disease, other doctors "know" of their bad side effects. Such as a lower sex drive, sterilization in men, development of man breast, depression, confusion, malaise, stupor, higher risk of cancers. soy no matter how you look at it is not healthy. But it's easy to grow, and very inexpensive. Thats why its so widely used, not because of any "good health" reasons.
And ask any dietitian, about being vegan, and they will tell you that it is more difficult to get all required nutrition on a vegan diet. And supplements are required!
And youre wrong, omnivores can get all the nutrition needed without the use of supplements.
and b4 you call anyone an "idiot" you should be sure your not an idiot yourself.
All vegans aren't vegan for the same reason you are, and to assume so makes you again an idiot. If you dont know what youre talking about, then keep your mouth shut and learn!
im not vegan, and I dont take any supplements! Now you try to not take any supplement and you will land yourself in the hospital with things like anemia, malnutrition, and heart palpitations, and on and on and on!
I dont believe you personally are vegan to "make a difference" if you are vegan at all!
The only proof I have of you being anything so far, is the simple proof that you are an AZZ! That call people idiot. And it doesn't matter what you eat, you have to kill it before you eat. So get off your "im better than you" pious attitude, and realize youre just another piece of sh*it pretending you fly like a bird, when youre just floating like the turd you are!
There! Put that in your garden and eat it!
Animal products also contain vast amounts of hormone. Also, doctors do not know anything about nutrition other than the basics. Asians are so unhealthy, right? Yeah, Chinese people have been eating soy products for a couple thousand years and you're gonna say it's unhealthy. Okay, how exactly are you qualified to make that assumption?
How exactly do you consume your recommended 4,700 mg of potassium? A banana only has a few hundred milligrams of the nutrient. A serving of fish only has about 600 mg. So what if veganism requires a few supplements. Big deal. Plenty of people should take supplements, regardless of their diet. And anyone can suffer from anemia, especially women who are on their period.
For someone who says they don't deserve to be called an idiot, you sure don't comprehend the basics of you vs. your vs. you are. Veganism is a lifestyle. If you eat vegan for your health and no other reason then you aren't a vegan; you're a strict vegetarian. Sorry, the label is quite specific.
Ha, you're pathetic. Most everything is fortified, even your precious cow's milk. Yes, the nutrients in your cow titty juice isn't natural. I know exactly what I need to consume in order to be healthy. You have probably never even picked up a book on nutrition. You come onto a vegan article to complain about veganism and you don't even know a single thing about it. That's really sad.
By the way, I don't even have a garden. I'm too lazy for that. I'm done wasting my time on you. You're just another ignorant and biased person and there's no use talking to you. See ya.
Interestingly enough, CNN had an article in 2007 that basically said Americans ALL eat a lot of soy, because it's one of the things we feed to the animals we eat. In addition, soybean oil is an additive in a LOT of foods. So we actually all have a lot of corn and soy in our diets. http://articles.cnn.com/2007-09-22/health/kd.gupta.column_1_high-fructose-corn-syrup-corn-refiners-association-soybean-oil?_s=PM:HEALTH
Reply to: Vegans aren't vegan to live longer. We do it because we believe in it. We feel being vegan makes a difference in the world.
Yep, veganism is like a religion. People don't do it for health, they do it to have "something to believe in", to have an agenda to push. Even when their health starts failing, many vegans have a hard time giving it up, it has become something they define themselves by and become lost without the "vegan" title.
Yeah. So do Muslims, Christians, Catholics, and any other person with a belief out there.
Stop spitting out lies and being a waste of space and maybe someone would take you seriously.
I have recently decided to become a vegan myself, but not for any animal rights reasons you may suppose. I joke with my friends who accuse me of such by answering "I've killed a cat just for jumping on the kitchen counter"...of course I'm just kidding.
One point I do want to make: the tons of grain we use to feed our livestock could feed the world, with grain left over! So for all of you meat eaters out there, perhaps you would just consider cutting back to lower the demand, in hopes our grain surplus as a result could be used for better purposes.
Everybody needs supplements? Anybody with a brain bigger than a mollusk knows that supplements are what they say they are, they make up for something you aren't getting in your diet naturally. And eating naturally, isn't that what being a vegan is supposed to be about?
If you are truly conscious about being kind to living things, why don't you just drink water and take more supplements. You'd be happy taking Soylent Green, perhaps.
And what is it about vegans who work so hard to make their food taste like meat, cheese and BACON?!!!!
And what a whimp, and bad mother than woman was to give in to her insane, devil vegan husband, for stopping breast feading her child & giving her child almond milk instead! that is pathetic on her part! stand up for your child, not for your twisted husband.
I am disgusted at the vegan thompson man in this story-he accually is implying almond milk is better than mother's milk? that is treason against God's creation! so according to male chauvs like him, women's breasts are purely for sex instead of nourishing our children! what a cave man barbarian veganism is! that has crossed the line way too far! and no, never date or have children with someone who eats differently than you, save the headache. opposites=divorce. vegans are devils in disguise!
hi best. i understand your frustration - breast feeding is by far the best solution. i think the article could have been more clear - the husband wasn't advocating almond milk over mother's milk; he was advocating almond milk over cow's milk. the mother in the article was having trouble lactating, so they were looking for an animal-friendly, healthy alternative. i'm sure they would've stuck with 100 percent mom's milk if she had produced enough. good for them for checking into healthy, safe, kind solutions.
When there is plenty of food human creatures are very selective and when there is little food they eat any living thing. Its not just about food human beings can even hate another human being for the way they are.
"Devil vegan"? Overreact much? Sounds like it was a compromise–they are BOTH parents of that baby, after all. Also, did you miss the part about how the mother wasn't producing enough milk? They had no choice but to supplement with something other than breast milk.
...huh, I don't know why this comment went here, it's not in reply to this comment. Disregard :)
I don't think I would want to be in a relationship where someone said I could not bring food I enjoy into my own home because of their dietary choices (not allergies or medical conditions such as diabetes, but a choice to not eat meat or animal products) . If you are that opposed to meat, then you should really find someone of like mind where there will be no consternation about diet later, especially when kids are involved.
As for me, I like my steaks and chicken and pork too. I also like vegetables, lots of them. What really gets me is folks who are "vegetarian" but don't eat vegetables. FRENCH FRIES ARE NOT A VEGETABLE. IF all you eat is cr@p, then being "vegetarian" is useless.
Although all the comments about how couples should not have such problems with each others' diets have merit, this ability to coexist can completely break down when children are involved. Should the child be vegan? Eat kosher? Like religion, when a set of parents have different standards by which they live, each standard has the possibility of becoming a point of contention when deciding by which standards the children should be raised.
I kinda agree.
I think parents should be more inclined to make the kids eat healthy, and any meal should be balanced! And if you give in to a child because he's screaming and crying for a candy bar. Then you have no business trying to eat healthy for yourself. It's disingenuous at the least, and can harm your child, and ruin any good eating habits you may have instilled in him/her. You have to be firm, but loving with children. And candy or snack cakes is no substitute for love or care. If you are vegan, then you have to pay close attention that the children are getting everything in their diet to help them grow, learn, and function to their fullest potential. If you like to eat meat, thats fine too, so long that youre not filling his ateries with cholesterol. The main issue again is not about what the adult likes or dislikes, but the main objective is the health of the children.
Doesn't matter what you eat!
Because it all turns to crap in the end!
Lol I thought it was funny!
As someone who cooks for a household that includes people with life threatening food allergies, I have to say that any comparison between that situation and people who just decide to eliminate one or more food groups from their diet is apples to oranges. And, I really don't see the big deal in living with someone who eats differently than you....if that puts you into counseling, I'd bet the farm that it is not your only issue as a couple.
Im not really sure why you would make that comment in the form of a reply to my last post...
But here's my take on food allergies!
Asking someone to eat a food that they are allergic to, is the same as asking someone without food allergies to drink liquid plumber. As the end result could be the same for the both of you!
Food allergies are a very serious matter and should never be taken lightly.
And if you dont eat something like peas because the texture grosses you out, then your not allergic, just picky, and probably whiney too. there is nothing wrong with not eating something because you dont like it, but it's a far cry from not being able to eat something because you are allergic. Im always surprised at how many people dont know the difference.
You are completely wrong. After 9 years as a Vegan, any sort of Meat/Fish are untenable and and completely undigestible, not to mention wholly undesirable. It is not a matter of being "picky" -I have zero desire to begin eating dead things again. As your "allergies" are important to you, Vegans have no desire to eat dead matter and get sick thereby. You are judging the choices of others and making your issues more lofty.
you apparently have trouble comprehending my replies, or youre just desperate for an argument?
But let me say this.. Not eating meat is anyone's "choice"!
A food allergy can't be compared to to a vegan eating a steak 9 years after not having meat, period. At worst, you vomit!
You can't compare vomiting with anaphylaxis! You may vomit when having an anaphylactic attack.
but vomiting alone doesn't even begin to compare to anaphylaxis.
Look it up! There's a huge difference.
And furthermore show me where in a single post that I have said anything negative about not eating meat? I dont understand your negative attitude!
im not sure if your comprehending what my replies are.
Your interpretations are a little off kilter. But I digress!
Are you kidding?
You can't compare vomiting which is the worst thing that will happen if a vegan eats meat.
You can't compare your minor issue to anaphylaxes!
One would send you to heaven. And the other you get a tummy ache.
Im surprised that im even replying to your pathetic argument.
Now if you were a vegan who ate strychnine then you night have a comparison. But your not.
Allergies are the universe's way to tell you you don't belong here, you are on the wrong planet. Live it or live with it!
I am vegetarian and my husband is not. This has never created issues with us. As far as restaurants go, I can usually find something to eat no matter where we go. His family often likes to go to steakhouses and I am perfectly happy eating some of the meatless side items such as salads and/or potatoes.
I do the majority of the cooking and I do cook meatless, mostly because I am grossed out by handling meat (I even was this way when I was not vegetarian). My husband will sometimes add meat to a dish if he would like meat in his meal (bacon to a veggie sandwich, chicken to a salad), but mostly will eat the meal as is. He does not mind this method, because he says he knows he is eating a balanced meal since I balance out the carbs/protein/fat and he would prefer not having to think about it. I am not one of those people who demand that he not eat meat in my presence.
Someone who has a food allergy can't comprise. Its not a choice. It could mean life or death for them. So to expect someone allergic to peanuts, to eat peanuts, because you ate tuna is not the same thing!
And to an earlier post: morality is not religion In any way shape or form! Morality is how we chose to live our lives, based on what we believe is right or wrong. and not because someone does believe or doesn't believe in an invisible baby sitter!
an ethic is not morality either. They too are different as an ethic, is a plan, or a fashion to reach a particular goal!
And if you dont like what your spouse eats, then eat something else. If you thin he/she should eat what you do, then you have some growing up to do!
It's all about communication and working as partners. My wife and I have extremely different diets... she's allergic to beef, and I'm staying away from white carbs (blood pressure and triglycerides). We tend to eat out a bunch, and seafood and Mexican are our favorite go-to restaurants. For the home meals, we substitute beef with ground turkey, and we can hardly tell a difference any more. But we only get along with the different diets because we talk to each other about what we like and don't like, what we can and can't have, and we take turns choosing the meals.
"Like Abbott and Thompson, it came down to compromise. When they started dating, Rosenberg refrained from cooking any pork or shellfish and changed her ordering style at restaurants so they could share dishes.
To reciprocate, Weisinger always made an effort to eat whatever Rosenberg cooked that was within his dietary restrictions."
Um...I'm pretty sure the definition of compromise went WAY over their heads. Compromise would include BOTH of them making changes...not the one person not cooking ANY restricted items...compromise would be "So we compromised and ate meat only on Sundays, Tuesdays and Thursdays".
If food or diet is your reasoning for not being with someone, then you'll probably be living alone for the rest of your life. Mostly because this is such a minor issue, if you can't deal with this, you definitely will not be to handle any of the real challenges that married couples face. And if your diet is the result of dogma, then not only will you have a troubled marriage, you will also have a very troubled life. Remember that this book (bible) was not written by god. It was written by fallible men, who had their own agendas. And getting you into heaven was not their priority. Give up the good (very bad) book. And live your life. If you need a book to tell you what is right and wrong, then you're a danger to society. and diet should be the least of your worries. Live your life, as this one may be the only life you get. You're not a computer, so dont let any deity program you as such!
Will you marry me?
Tesla is a closet case hom*ose*xual who goes by many different names. because he not man enough to be honest with himself, much less to be honest with anyone else. He is not vegetarian, or vegan, because he loves to put meat (mostly meat shticks) in his mouth, even if he's not man enough to admit. This because he was raised by redneck, trailer trash, who's ideal of a balanced meal is a 12 pack of beer, and a full case of white castle sliders!
Its not your fault that you were raised by bible pushing, hippocrates. But you should at least be able to step outside of your own craziness long enough to know what's right and wrong! And you mr. Tesla are not right in your head, and couldn't be more wrong in your learning challenged ideas! im just saying youre borderline "retarded"! I dont mean that to be derogatory, but more of a clinical diagnosis! Get some help dude!
100% correct!
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Hippocrates? Wasn't he the Greek who created the Hippocratic Oath?
Seriously, everyone's computer has a spellchecker. There is no excuse to spell phonetically.
Maya are you the grammar police?
Furthermore the word is spelled correctly, just not use correctly. Mr, grammar cop! And shouldnt you be changing your name back to Tesla soon?
I am a lifelong vegetarian (healthy, good weight, physically active, thanks!), and my husband is a meat-eater from the Dominican Republic. They eat a LOT of meat there. He loves to cook and if he wants to eat meat, he will make it on the side. Since we got married he's experimented with tofu and meat substitutes, and if he likes the substitute better he'll make it instead of the actual meat. When I cook, I may make him chicken or something but I don't like to handle it. He understands that I won't eat something cooked with meat (how many times have I been told to "just pick it out"!!). Making a big deal about others' food choices (having a fit because there's a meat product in the house) is just childish. I agree with the posters who've said that if you can't get over the food differences, it's a sign of a bigger problem in your relationship.
Is this really such a huge issue? My parents are vegetarian, and I am not. It has never really caused an issue between us, and they stay over for months at a time.
I also cannot believe a previous poster's assertion that we NEED meat in our diets. I have met people who cannot digest red meat or are allergic to chicken. Are they really missing something nutritionally that they can't get from non-meat sources?
And for the above that says gluten-free is a crock, maybe that person has never met anyone with celiac's or has an allergy to gluten? Does that poster also believe that food allergies and lactose intolerance are made up?
I think that poster is referencing that a very small portion of the general population actually has an allergy, yet gluten free for the most part is a fad with people claiming they are healthier due to the placebo effect. If I had a nickel for every time I hear someone claim "I am so much healthier since I began eating Gluten free...."
My cousin has Celiac's, and for hear, I understand the need for gluten free. However, it is annoying, and an insult to her, that her inconvenience has been made into a new eating fad with no provable results
The problem is that vegetarians do not want to compromise and for some reason seem to think that they have the "high road." My sister complains if she thinks I do not say "vegetarian" with the proper tone of reverence, yet thinks nothing of saying "meat," as if it were the most disgusting thing in the world.
When she comes to visit, I can make pizza with meat just on my half, tempura, with shrimp just for me and eggplant just for her, and enchiladas with beans for her and meat for me. At least she does not complain that some meat might have somehow contaminated what is meant for her. Some vegetarians probably would.
I could not imagine having to live with a vegetarian and have this hassle every day.
Would you ask someone who is kosher to "compromise" by having meat on half a cheese pizza? The restriction is no different for vegans and vegetarians. As a vegan I'm not going to give you a hard time if you want to order a separate pizza with whatever you want, but I'm having mine separate if yours has non-vegan ingredients. Compromise when you're talking about dietary restrictions is that we get a vegan pizza, and half is mushroom because you like them and I hate them. There's a world of difference between a restriction and a preference.
If you are a vegetarian/vegan because you think it is healthier, that is a PREFERENCE not a restriction. You are physically able to eat meat, there is nothing restricting you. You're not allergic, you don't even have a religious objection...you just prefer to not eat it.
Just to let you know!
CHEESE IS NOT A VEGETABLE!
What you described is not a compromise at all. It's my way or the high way.
This argument seems to be a moot point, given that pizza almost invariably has cheese, which is an animal product. Regardless of whether or not it has meat on half, eating pizza is probably off limits. If you eat cheese from an animal, you are not vegan, you are vegetarian. Vegans will not consume any animal products.
I'm a veggie loving omnivore. (In other words I can make a meal off anything.) My best girlfriend is vegetarian of the fish eating variety. We take vacations together and get along fine. Her husband is a very strict vegetarian perpetually threatening to go vegan. She swears if he goes vegan it's grounds for divorce. (They've been together like this thirty years. I'm not really worried.)
There are plenty of people to date out there. I would never date a vegan or vegetarian. If you meet someone you like, and find out they are vegan or vegetarian, just move on to the next person. It's just as easy to be with a non-vegetarian than to be with one. Problem solved. Next.
I doubt you can find any date ever! Regardless of their eating habits!
Isn't that akin to prying into what they do for a living or what car they drive? Seems kinda shallow to me. I'd rather find out what kind of person they are. If it's someone I want to spend time with, that will come before what they eat or what they drive. Twitch his zone.
Find out if they are in to compromises in life, like eating some of the stuff you like every now and then.
What someone does for a living is relevant to who they are as a person. For example, if you are a vegetarian, you may not want to date a pig farmer. While I agree that it's what's on the inside that counts, some details, such as major lifestyle decisions, do matter if you want a long term relationship.
First of all, never trust a male vegan. Second of all, and finally, despite how important food is physiologically and culturally, if you can't get over food differences, perhaps look further into what other issues may exist as to your relationship. This is coming from the epitome of an omnivore generalist who is engaged to a fickle vegetarian who doesn't particularly care for vegetables.
why?
Wow. That's like saying don't trust people with two first names. Wow.
Fighting over what food to eat? Talk about a First World problem.
That doesn't make it any less of a problem. What's your point?
It is very insignificant if you move your eyes off of yourself for a minute.
Wow ... just wow.
Let's try to staying on topic, shall we?
El Diablo, just because something isn't a 1st world problem, doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
that would be like a young, slightly unattractive girl going to the hospital, and asking the doctor to stitch up her facial wound so that it doesn't scar so much. And then the doctor asking the little girl, "why are you worried about it? You're not pretty, and thats not a 1st world problem".
Do you not see how that would be wrong for the doctor to do that?
Your comment is heartless in nature, then you have the nerve to ask others to take their eyes off of themselves for a minute.
So I would have to agree "Diet Rite" and say WOW!
The top 5 keys to a healthy relationship: http://thenaykedtruth.blogspot.com/2012/02/5-keys-to-healthy-relationship.html
My husband and I have been happily married for almost 25 years. I have never been a vegetarian, he has been one since he was 14. He has food allergies, including all dairy products and canola oil, so now he is basically vegan with the occasional fish or shellfish meal. He likes super spicy food and is very adventurous about taste combinations, I am not. Our daughters are now both omnivore although they both tried being vegans and /or vegetarians during their teen years.
I just don't understand all the angst over having different food choices. I read carefully ingredients to make sure there is no canola or whey, we both cook, and it is easy to take into account what each of us need or like. I often prepare meals by cooking a dish that can be adapted in both directions, for example I make a baked ziti that is a family favorite, at a certain point I split the dish and add tofu and more spice to his, and riccota and mozzarella to mine. He will wait to add the hot and spicy stuff after I take my share or at the table. If he wants some East African dish I won't eat he makes it anyway and I will have chicken and a salad that night. It is not a big deal unless you make it one.
I don't expect him to wash a dish I cooked a steak in and he doesn't make gagging noises when I eat my steak. We tend to prepare our own protein courses and share sides. Compromise is the basis of a long lasting marriage, if you cannot work around your loved ones food choices/needs early in a relationship, what are you going to do when you are much older and have to make much bigger changes due to health or career issues?
From the article, it sounds like the problems in these relationships stemmed more from religious beliefs and how to raise their children more than just individual food choices. Couples have to work through those no matter what if one or both has strong convictions. But at least they're working through it. In my family, if my dad didn't like it, mom didn't cook it. For herself or us. Unfortunately he only liked about 16 foods and we had to have meat and potatoes for EVERY meal. As a result I love to experiment with different types of foods. My husband is a more "routine" eater, but I always have quick fix stuff for him to make himself or I'll occasionally make him something to eat throughout the week if I'm doing mostly vegetarian that week. Of all the things we argue about, food has never been one of them. We each like what we like.
i've been completely vegetarian since 1976 and vegan since 1999. i completely agree that it's easier if veg'ns are in relationship with other veg'ns.
You don't eat meat? Okay have some Lamb.
I am veggie and my boyfriend is not. I don't think we have ever had a fight about this. We simply cook a meal and he adds meat to his if he wants to. Or, we cook our own dishes the day before and heat them up for dinner the next day. This is the most minor of all issues.
Thank you Skottikins. I was raised that it was bad manners to "make fun of what other people eat." That translates in adult language as "it is rude to make disparaging remarks." IOW don't judge. You eat what you want and I'll eat what I want (pun intended) ~_~ and we'll deal with the rest as a respectful, loving couple should.
It's people who judge others that are the problem – and not just with regards to food.
BTW, I'm still trying to figure out the obtuse title of this article, "... Cattle Field..." It is supposed to be a cutesy play on "battlefield", with a twist about eating meat vs not? That's the most I could make of it. Or, perhaps it's just a typo.
Perhaps, it's that you have no sense of humor.
I was married to a militant vegan. He was bitter, angry and judgemental. We are now divorced. Honestly, the veganism was the biggest "issue" that we clashed over. There was not any room for compromise whatsoever. (What compassionate person who claims to believe in the vegan ideal is more concerned with an unfertilised chicken egg than the embryo he has created with his wife? Human life and emotions are worth nothing to most vegans I have met.)
I can't see how an omni and a vegan could ever have a succesful long term relationship. I have known literally hundreds of vegans and to a one they all have had chips on their shoulders. I have also never met a mentally balanced person who has been vegan for more than a year or two. Any "normal" vegans I have ever met have been newbies. After a few years they start getting strange. I firmly believe the are missing out on something that is affecting their mental health. A prime example is my ex.
well, if your ex is like that, all vegans must be like that.....
I agree with the part about "chip" on the shoulder. It sometimes seems that vegamites use it as a badge of honor, with a bit of holier-than-thou pinning that badge to the chest.
ive known a lot of omnivores with a chip on their shoulder.
wow, talk about a generalization.......
I can tell you as a vegetarian I have been soundly trounced and insulted by many meat-eaters. It goes both ways. People can be jerks from all sides of the fence. I've been called a "liberal" (not sure why that relates to my food choices) or a "tree-hugger." And I don't say a WORD about my beliefs when the food comes out; people pester me to explain why I'm not digging my fork into the roast. And no matter how gentle the explanation is or how elusive, the knives, figuratively speaking, come out. I realize there are rude people among vegetarians and vegans, but there are just as many rude people among the meat eaters.
Absolutely. I wish I could have met more veggies like you!
Thank you. It's not my job to make people feel bad about their food choices. We should all learn to agree to disagree politely and gently, or just not talk about it at all. But people get passionate about these things, oh well :).
Well said! I have been vegetarian since 1994 and would never, ever judge anyone who isn't. I have been ridiculed by my family (at the beginning, they finally realized it wasn't a "phase" and stopped bugging me), my co-workers, etc. but I find that my friends and family now actually enjoy my cooking and even make special dishes for me w/out meat when inviting me for a meal. As for meat in my kitchen, I used to let others cook it as long as they cleaned the pots, stove, etc. and didn't stick their meaty spatula in my veggie dishes. Now that my boys are older, they have decided that they will no longer eat tofu or meat substitutes that they have been eating all their lives. My little one (okay, 12 is not so little I guess) developed a protein deficiency problem because of this, and started loading up on carbs. His pediatrician was worried and so, what to do. Since I've been veg since 16 yrs old I have never cooked meat and had no idea how to even buy it BUT – I have now learned to do so, for my child to have protein (both my boys have always eaten meat when at their dad's house, just not here at home before recently). I cook lean chicken and beef for him and use my Nuwave oven for that so I know it is cooked properly (obviously I can't taste it) and it keeps the rest of my kitchen meat-free (see comment on "zones" in article – this works great!). In any event, I am sure many would/could judge me for putting $$$ into the meat industry even though I am a veg – I guess that is hypocritical but as I said, I don't judge anyone else and I would hope they wouldn't judge me for doing what's best for my kids. I don't think I'll end up in the veggie underworld for cooking meat once or twice a week. Have an attitude of tolerance and everyone will get along! :-)
I know some very nice vegans. In fact, one person in our lab was a vegan and I didn't find out until a lab function and the lab manager said in passing "I wanted to make sure there was something so and so could eat because she's vegan." She never complained or even said anything, she just ate what was vegan and skipped what wasn't. It sounds like your husband had control issues that had really little to do with being vegan. Many people take food and exercise to an extreme as part of a psychological problem with control issue. Many body builders have similar problems.
My boyfriend is a vegetarian. I never have been, officially, but largely have eaten that way because it's healthier and veggies are far less gross than meat if they get a little old in the fridge. This one was easy – happy to just go veg and start cooking veg for him. He seems really appreciative of my efforts and I still get to fulfill that urge to feed. There are more important issues than what's on (or not on) the dinner plate!
My beloved likes fish better than I do. It's not that big a deal to pop his fish in the toaster oven and my steak on the George Foreman, and have the same side dishes for both of us.
I don't know why, but that just struck me as really sweet.
This is really a non-issue. You know why it's a non-issue? Because if you are fighting over food, then you need to just end it now. You will certainly not be able to work out any REAL problems in your relationship, like money, child rearing, death, job loss, etc. So do yourself a favor and get some personal therapy–maybe you will learn why you don't know how to compromise or respect the person you are supposed to love.
Well said.
I agree! End it now and save yourselves a lot of grief.
Relationship issues and requirement: sexual orientation, food orientation, money, religion, political...
Thank you, Lana, for supporting my point.
So why is it always the one who has a less restrictive diet does the bigger part of the compromise?
They should literally meet half way, the vegan eat some meat and the non-vegan eat more veggies. Otherwise it not much a compromise at all.
Understand where you are coming from. My significant other is a vegan and I am not. Not only will she not eat meat, she will not tolerate anyone else eating meat in her presence or have it in the house. Fine with me, when I want meat I go out for dinner. When she complains I tell her to stuff it.
I will keep meat out of the house because I love her. But she will not dictate what I eat when I am not with her.
Don't worry, a vegan life style is not sustainable for good health. All vegans must eventually change their lifestyle to include meat or face serious health issues. Amazingly of the three food types of fat, carbohydrates and protein the only one not needed for good health is carbohydrates yet loonies try to only eat plants. All the vegans I know have serious problems.
That's utter hogwash and you know it. Veganism can be very healthy. Why is it that carnivores are so insecure they must pretend they know about things they are afraid of, and run them down? Nobody should force a vegan to eat meat, any more than a vegan should pressure a carnivore to give up his preferred menu. The very fact that people on here are denigrating vegans shows what intolerant and frightened people they (the carnivores) are. Shut up and mind your own business. I am not a vegan but I get sick and tired of all these childish twits acting as if they are superior to vegans just because they like to chew up and swallow dead animals. None of you knows what you're talking about, you just feel threatened so you lash out at someone who doesn't do everything your way. Grow up.
I don['t know why they are so insecure. I have dealt with this since I started the veggie thing (March of 1979), and the folks who issued the most dire warnings are all either dead or massively overweight
Oh, my gosh, Charlotte, thank you, THANK YOU. Well said!!!
You need to stop painting people with an oversized brush. I am a long time vegetarian (30+ years) and primarily vegan, and I have no significant health problems. If you want to call me looney, have at it.
I agree totally too bad these militant vegans will keep shouting out their BS testimonials about how perfect in health they claim to be totally ignoring their obvious mental disorder caused by an improper diet. Ever wonder why people when rescued from a religious cult get fed animal protein to deprogram them? Because a vegan diet makes people gullible brain washed zombies.
gullible brain washed zombies?
have another burger, big mouth
I can totally understand this article. When my wife and I first met nearly 10 years ago, we were both obese (but not like Springer Show obese) and we both loved food. Since then I decided to eat healthy and exercise and lost nearly half of my body weight and my wife is still the same. I love her and all is good, but in the kitchen we don't always agree on meals. Sometimes she gets disappointed when I won't share the same meal as her. But, we take it one day at a time.
I hear you. It's nearly impossible to lose weight when your spouse is constantly cooking up gourmet desserts. We finally had a confrontation and I demanded that our lives focus on something other than food. That's what I thought this article was about.
I'm a gluten-free vegetarian and my boyfriend is an omnivore. He ended up losing weight when I moved in since I do the grocery shopping and most of the cooking and I don't prepare meat (except for making crab cakes on his b-day!). It really does come down to respect; what we choose to put in our bodies is a choice. We can educate others, but we should not try to force "our" way upon others.
http://lessonsfromtheendofamarriage.com
Ah, yes, "gluten-free", the latest food fantasy – a complete crock for more than 0.5% of the population, has been latched on to by the advertisers to sell stuff. I'm just waiting for the "gluten-free" eggs to show up at the store.
Some people have a gluten allergy. And it's not uncommon. A woman I worked with had a son who was allergic and it is really difficult to manage. The increase in gluten-free products might be used as a fad by some, but there are people with a real need whose lives are made easier by it. There is no reason to make fun of it.
Vegans always say they are healthier and they really believe it too. I have a few vegan friends, it comes with the territory living in Boulder, CO. If they claim they are so healthy than how come none of them can keep up with me and my meat eating friends while hiking and mountain biking? Maybe it's that they aren't taking the correct supplements but this is just my first hand experience.
Your sample size ("me and my friends" and "a few vegan friends") is too small to draw any meaningful conclusions about who is healthier. And at any rate, this article wasn't about what diet is "right." It was about people coming together and negotiating their differences. For the record, though, there are vegan athletes competing in all sorts of sports including power lifting, mixed martial arts, Olympic sprinting and Ironman triathlons. Some vegans are healthy, some surely aren't, same as for anyone else.
Health and fitness are not the same thing.
A friend was ordered by her doctor to stop being vegan because of the impact it had on her health. I'm allergic to soy and can't get enough protein from beans unless I do nothing but eat beans all day ... which sort of made it difficult to do my job. So no chance I'll ever go vegan on a permanent basis.
jimmy: im primarily vegan, and do ultramarathons. i don't know why your friends cannot keep up with you.
As long as everyone is respectful of each other, this really never has to be an issue. But part of respect in this case is realizing that it's not just about food; it can be about family, faith, comfort, deeply held beliefs, or of course, medical necessity. Make an effort to understand where your partner is coming from and make whatever arrangement suits your relationship accordingly. I'm vegan and my boyfriend is a meat-eater. I'm a far more adventurous cook than he is and I get a lot of joy out of cooking for loved ones and sharing food with them. He gets that about me and nurtures it, and in turn he knows I have no designs on converting him, that I can work around his onion allergy and that I'll save the oh-so-tempting cinnamon rolls for when he's out of town. When we cook together it's vegan, when we're in a restaurant we each order what we want and when he's on his own he cooks his way. We'll share a home and a kitchen one day and there will be chicken and eggs alongside a ton of veggies and that will be fine with me because we've negotiated this potential battlefield with love and respect.
And for the love of mike, I hope that almond milk story is misreported. As much as I like the stuff, it's not a suitable replacement for breastmilk or formula.
I also found that very troubling. Baby's can starve on normal milk or milk substitutes (this isn't just about vegans but also people substituting in regular cow's milk instead of baby formula). This is very dangerous advice to casually throw into an article.
The Vegetarian Resource Group in the US and the Vegan Society in the UK both provide helpful guidelines for raising vegan children and advocate vegan diets as healthy (with advice on how to ensure sufficient nutrients for a healthy pregnancy and breastfeeding.. both of which need extra care for any diet but especially any restricted one). However, both very clearly state that one should NEVER substitute a non-baby formula milk for breastmilk and recommend using one of the soy based baby formulas on the market (there are several), if breastfeeding isn't feasible, for at least the first year of the baby's life (obviously adding in solid foods as the baby grows).
I believe the article said she could not produce enough milk to feed the baby. The almond milk would be a supplement, not a replacement.
It doesn't matter if it is a supplement. Formula is specifically made to be as close to breast milk as possible. Babies need a certain amount of protein, fat, and sugars to grow properly. The idea of using almond milk for an infant is really disturbing.
Disturbing? Really? How about you worry about what you feed your kids, and let others worry about what to feed theirs.
I have to assume the article is leaving out a bit of vital information, like maybe that the baby was older than 6 months and already starting solids in addition to breast milk. Because NO pediatrician would OK someone using almond milk to supplement breast milk when the baby is still relying completely on breast milk (or formula) for sustenance. The baby would become malnourished. They wouldn't ok cows milk either, because neither of those contain sufficient nutrition for a growing baby. It's like saying it's ok to just raise a 5 year old on cows milk and no food-would you think that's a parent's decision? No, it's called malnutrition. The article must be wrong.
I don't think almond milk would be a good replacement for breast milk, but I wouldn't suggest a cows milk based formula either. Perhaps there is a formula that is almond or rice based but with added nutrients that a growing infant needs. Or perhaps the mom should have tried to get her milk supply up by nursing more :) Once a child is weaned and this should for sure be at least one year, better perhaps to nurse into the second year, then almond milk and a vegan diet is totally healthy :)
yes, there is soy based formula
I'm an omnivore and my fiancee is a vegetarian. We cook largely vegetarian at home because honestly its easier than cooking two things (I was never a huge meat eater anyways.) When we go out, I'll have meat if I feel like it... Our biggest struggle right now is that I'm trying to lose weight and my FH loves his cheese as his carbs. It's not that I don't love it too, but my waistline doesn't!. We've talked about what we are going to feed our children, and they will be allowed to chose how they eat.
If your financee is vegetarian for ethical reasons, he should check into how horrible the dairy industry is (I think even worse than the meat industry!) and then maybe he will give up the cheese! Try Daiya, it tastes different but melts great and now I've forgot what cow's milk based cheese even tastes like :)
Cheese is not a carb.
looks like its all about the label that gets placed on you...vegan?.. meateater?.....whats up with that... folks you have to much spare time on your hands.
This was an article about relationships between people with differing diets. How exactly are we supposed to have a meaningful conversation about that topic without identifying what we're talking about?
i won't date anyone who doesn't eat sushi.
It will be tough...check out my post on healthy choices when you have special dietary needs at
http://www.evans4life.net/2012/03/healthy-living-thursday-healthy-eating.html
Why not just marry someone who likes to eat what you like to eat?
Hopefully you'll learn there's more to finding a mate than common food interests.
If you study different cultures you will find that one of the overwhelming similarities from one culture to another are their eating habits. Food has, until just recently, been a very regional and cultural phenomenon. So I would suggest that Marie's advice is more true than you might think. We may be more "hard wired" to be compatible with someone who has the same dietary preferences.
Finding someone who shares his taste in food would definitely benefit my ex, who flatly refuses to compromise on anything. Even my food allergies weren't negotiable; when grocery shopping, he claimed he "forgot" I have allergies and continually bought the things I shouldn't eat. When I did the shopping and bought the brands I can eat, he'd complain the food "didn't taste right" because it didn't taste exactly like what his mother used to make.
i specifically chose to date only other vegetarians.
Much ado about nothing. Complaining that you don't like your partner's food? Or they yours? Get lost together in the wilderness for 3 or 4 weeks. A few weeks of true starvation will cure both your attitudes.
It will certainly cure the vegan's attitude. Since most plants are poison the vegan probably will not survive.
Vegans are a very trying bunch.
wrong, most plants and or vegetation is edible indeed, that is why most wild creatures are predominantly vegetarian. Any of the meat products that you may consume -mostly get their nutrition directly from plants, or how else do you think nutrients enter the food chain in the first place? Any carnivorous animal gets it nutrition from a vegetarian animal -ultimately.
So true! I've told my meat eating friends and family this many times :)
I am vegan in that sense; I eat animals that eat vegetables. Circle of life, no harm, no foul.
a very trying bunch? wow, are you a blowhard
People lost in the woods will survive by gathering food. That will certainly exclude meat unless frogs and snails are gathered. Most plants are indeed edible as well as roots, nuts and the cambrium of some trees. Go ahead and try to capture wild animals larger than a mouse with your hands and nonexistant knowledge of trapping. It will be a reality check indeed.
If your going to pre-assume ignorance of hunting and trapping then be consistent and do the same with gathering edible vegetation. I'd rather take my chances trying to spear a deer then playing Eeny-Meeny-Miney-Mow with the poison mushrooms.
Human beings have evolved over millions of years (or thousands, depends on how you see the world) as omnivores...from the Old Testament to the New...from Judaism to Islam to Christianity and even unto Aethism...meat is is "lawful" "permitted" "kosher" and "halal".
When you personify animals you don't elevate them to equality with human beings or "God's chosen" but rather, you bring human beings down to the level of animals...whereupon, it's predator versus prey anyways.
Your body is evolved, designed, engineered to process many things including meat...a desire to not be an omnivore is about as realistic as not wanting to age or die...what is...just is.
Thinking that killing animals is inhuman equates the death of a chicken or cow with the death of a family member...and if you have ever stood by the side of someone you love with all your heart and watched them die, then you will understand that a chicken or a cow does not compare...no matter how much some animal lover wants to equate the two.
Until we can find some other entity where we can park the "essence" "soul" "spirit" that makes us sentinent humans, we will be connected to our lesser animal relatives via biology.
Do we have the ability to fuel our bodies with things other than meat? Yes. But if we didn't kill and eat animals, we would still have to kill them to prevent over-population...let cattle, deer, bison roam free...when the wolves become to many to count, kill the wolves and feed them to your domesticated dog or cat or just wait until the the wolves starve and the cycle begins again...at least the animals won't suffer the horrible death of being slaughtered...just being eaten alive.
Read Diet for a Small Planet to see some information on the increase of meat consumption around the world, its true impact on the health of people and the environment (have a look at what "feedlots" do to everything around them) as well as its impact on the economy. Do you seriously believe that if we don't all eat meat, that the cows are going to start running around wild all over the place? Are you kidding?? How about if we don't all eat meat, then the people who breed cattle don't breed as many in the future, and the ones that are still being born are allowed to have a less stressful time before their brutal death? They can live in pastures and eat grass like they are supposed to instead of tons of grain and sometimes even other dead cows. And they would not have to be loaded up with antibiotics which end up causing all sorts of trouble with humans' health. If you seriously believe that the wolves and other animals of prey are going to take over because of wild, marauding cows running out of control all over this country, you really have some serious issues besides being misinformed about nutrition.
We are not 'omnivore' because a true omnivore does not cook flesh to eat. As humans, we are not equipped to eat raw flesh. Our 'canine teeth' is a joke compared to the common house cat. As for 'lowering humans down to animals' we do it all the time to people who commit hideous crimes (would you rather save Jeffrey Dahmer or a turkey given the choice?) and during times of war – we dehumanize under certain conditions.
Psychologically we are not meat eaters and it is easily proved. Put a hungry two year old in a room with an apple and a rabbit and come back in a couple hours – I guarantee the kid will have eaten the apple and be petting the bunny.
1) You don't get to change the meanings of words simply by adding your own absurd caveats "Oh we cook our meat, that means it doesn't count."
2) You can't seriously think that "2-year-olds aren't instinctively good hunters" is any kind of convincing argument, can you?
house cats aren't omnivores, they're carnivores. Good examples of omnivores are chimps, bears, and pigs. We have also bred dogs to be omnivorous. Also fossil records demonstrate that our teeth and jaws have become less robust due to cooking. Carnivores have very simple intestinal tracts, herbivores have very large intestinal tracts (see cow stomachs), omnivores are in between. Our intestinal tract is most similar to other omnivores.
Dogs are NOT omnivores. We have not "bred them" to be omnivores; selective breeding does not change a carnivore into an omnivore. The digestive tract of a dog is identical to the digest tract of a wolf.
dogs and I think bears are the more omnivorous of the carnivores (and dogs and wolves are pretty much the same.) Cats are the most carnivorous of the carnivores. Bears and dogs will supplement their diet by scavenging. Cats generally rely on their kill for everything. This is in the wild of course. One difference between dogs and cats is that cats have to derive one of their amino acids, I think lysine, from animal sources or they will go blind and eventually die. Dogs can subsist on a vegetarian diet, but it's not their natural preference.
A dog's digestive system cannot efficiently break down plant matter. They lack digestive enzymes such as amylase. And their digestive system isn't long enough to allow proper nutrient extraction. For dogs to get much of anything from plant matter, it most be pureed first. (If you feed a dog plant matter, like carrots or blueberries, then look at their poop, you'll see whole chunks of the vegetable/fruit in there. Just like when a human eats corn.) Dogs may be able to survive on a human-prepared vegetarian diet, but they need meat to thrive. And just because they can survive on such a diet doesn't change them into omnivores, they are still carnivores. If the classification of carnivore was that the animal never eat any plant matter, there would be very very few carnivores; many carnivores, especially scavengers, will ingest plant matter, but that doesn't mean they get much of anything out of it, and they would be missing required nutrients.
You are comparing us to a carnivore and saying we aren't the same. No, we aren't. We are OMNIVORES. Not carnivores, not herbivores.
We can eat raw flesh (sushi/sashimi with raw fish, beef carpaccio, tartare dishes, etc), we just often choose to cook it for flavor. We also cook vegetables for the same reason, different flavor. And use herbs and seasonings. No other animal does those things either.
Alex, the health and wellbeing of my cats is much more important to me than the health of any member of your family. I will shed no tear if someone from your family dies and I expect you to shed no tear for any of my pets. We are all, indeed, equal and signficance is in the eye of the admirerer. You've probably cheated on your partner and as such, hold far less moral value than any of my pets. It is humans who need to be elevated to the level of our loyal non-human animal companions. They are unflinchingly loyal and people abuse, neglect and abandon them by the millions every year because they feel like it.
wow did you really just make the assumption that Alex cheated on his partner because he is human? Or is it because he eats meat? ITry not to project your issues on others. And frankly, I think it's sad that you wouldn't shed a tear for someone else's loved one. You talk about humans needing to be raised to the level of animals, but you don't even have basic human empathy.
In our household we have (4) dogs (4) cats and hamsters...all living in harmony and all ethically, and very well cared for.
Morality and ethics are not the same thing. Morality is defined by religion and ethics are defined by people.
Your assumption of my "morality" is, by the moral standards of every religion I am familiar with, slanderous, and therefore immoral.
And if "morality" is your gauge, perhaps you should re-read my original post where I explain / acknowledge the existence of religious teachings that describe the morality of consuming animals.
Finally, the suggestion that your cats are more valuable than ANY memeber of ANYONE's family is so far beyond the realm of moral or ethical standards that I cannot begin to comprehend your views...having watched my love die in front of me, I can tell you unequivocally that I would have traded a world's worth of cats for her.
"Thinking that killing animals is inhuman equates the death of a chicken or cow with the death of a family member..."
Alex, you've never met my family...
The issue we have, is that my BF cooks, and I don't. He is overweight, I never used to be but have gained 14lbs since we started dating 18 months ago! It's a problem. I have asked for food that isn't fried, but he tends to fry almost everything and never cooks fresh veg. I have taken to cooking dinner on weekends when I stay there now, and making something healthier and lower calorie.
He's also much more into meat, I am by tendency more vegetarian, and can't ever resist when he cooks a steak. I feel bad, but don't have the will power to really say no. I feel bad that I am not always strong enough to do something better, to cook myself, or to stand by my vegetarianism.
I just wish he would try to respect what I want a little more, and realize that it's an issue for me. I don't feel happy about my body, and don't feel supported by his laziness in the kitchen or out.
it's such a shame, I otherwise adore him, and we get on well, just not over food and exercise.
Sounds like you need to do some communicating about your needs. You've been together a year and a half and you can't tell him how important your this is to you? He won't compromise with some healthier meals? That's a problem
Shakti, start cooking half the time what you want or shut up. You can't complain if he's the one doing the labor in the kitchen. You can help him and steer him towards healthier choices by helping him in the kitchen. He cooks what he knows. Help him learn new recipes and you will both have fun and benefit.
you're calling HIM lazy in the kitchen, and blaming him for YOUR diet? Why don't YOU cook and quit being lazy and take resposibility for your own actions
One tip I could give you would be to limit your portions when you are eating his fried foods. Weight gain/loss has little to do with healthy food and everything to do with calories. If you eat less calories than you burn, you will lose weight no matter what you are eating. Of course to be healthy at the same time is another issue.. try eating healthy snacks between meals and eating smaller portions of the higher-calorie foods that he's cooking.
More than 60% of the inhabitants of this planet have inadequate amounts of food. While different people have different tastes, if you have enough to eat, then don't sweat the small stuff.
I have always been strictly vegan. When I met my husband to be, I made it clear that there would be NO meat or animal products in the house. Case closed.
Your husband must be a dbag to put up with you.
What a dhead thing to say.
What you meat eaters do not seem to realize is that there is NOTHING offensive about vegetarian food, meanwhile meat is HORRIFYINGLY offensive, especially if you have been meat-free for years and years. Meat–the look of it, the smell of it, the thought of blood and bacteria contaminating our utensils and cookware-it's REPULSIVE.
You know how a smoker gets when he or she quits? They CANNOT tolerate cigarette smoke at all in any capacity, on any level? That's what happens after a person breaks his or her meat addiction, and make no mistake-it IS an addiction, and meat is marketed to be exactly that.
When you have been without it a number of years, you cannot be around it. The smell of meat cooking is enough to make you want to throw up.
A grocery store in my area sells rotisserie chickens and bbq ribs. I have to look in the carts of people I'm about to stand behind in line. If I notice they have a rotisserie chicken or a package of bbq ribs, I move to the next line because those items smell like a baby's crappy diaper, and that's no exaggeration. It smells EXACTLY like baby poop, and I cannot stand to be in line so near it.
So, for a person who finds everythign about meat to be intolerable to state the ground rules in the very beginning is a good thing. Someone who can't adhere to something like that should just date someone else.
My husband is a pescatarian. Our rule is-he can eat fish all he wants in a restaurant, but he cannot bring it home, and cannot cook it or eat it here. Is he a douchebag? Hardly. He sets PLENTY of his own ridiculous rules, and we are expected to abide for the sake of harmony, so for me to tell him he cannot bring fish into MY kitchen and use MY cooking utensils to make it is fair.
The same kind of rule for other households is not unreasonable.
I have to say that almost everything you describe in your post is not ‘fact’ even though you present it as so. You are describing personal preference and a number of phobias. Not all vegetarians are repulsed by meat; in fact there have been studies that show only a small percentage of vegetarians/vegans are truly repulsed by meat. And in most cases it’s a feeling that can be reversed with practice or therapy (I’m not talking about eating it here, just being around it).
I’ve known many vegetarians and vegans, including my sister who hasn’t touched meat in 35 years, yet she is able to live with her partner who eats and cooks meat regularly. After reading your post, one would come to the conclusion that this is an impossibility!
Also, I hope you realize there are bacteria everywhere, including loads of it on fruits and vegetables, in eggs and cheese and milk, and in and on your body at all times. Without bacteria we would be dead. What you are describing is called a phobia. Bacteria can be killed and cleaned off utensils and cookware easily, yet you seem truly afraid that it will cause you harm at any moment.
Having said all that, if you have come to an understanding with your husband, then that’s all that really matters. But to lump all vegetarians into your personal lifestyle is far from accurate.
Your finding meat repulsive is your mental problem. Meat is not an addiction, it's part of the natural diet of humans. You, however, have twisted it in your mind to create a repulsion to it.
Or a loving soul who understands and appreciates those who take a stand against cruelty. To find a dbad, look in the mirror.
jimmy: you are the one who sounds like a dbag. now, boy, go home and get your shinebox
I'm surprised he puts up with that.
Oh, like you don't have any rules of your own that a housemate is expected to recognize on a daily basis?
Good for you! That way there are no surprises. And if he couldn't abide, then fine, he was free to move on. This way, he knew what he was getting into. :) We have to set rules like this, otherwise our beloved items like iron skillets are used to braise some kind of red meat.... EW! No. No way. Can you imagine? Nasty.
You do know buildings displace and kill animals, right?
I love, love, love this headline. (And the article)
I like that the men in the article were the ones with the restrictions, not only women are vegans or are on restricted diets. I've been in a relationship with someone with severe food allergies, and it does make it difficult, but compromise is key during meal times. Thanks for an insightful article.
who cares you eat together love together why break it up
My husband is a good Mid-western man raised on meat and potatoes. When we first moved in together he told he that he felt he could date anyone expect for a vegetarians. Personally I don't like meat. I do not eat any pork products and rarely cook red meat. We have come to the understanding that he who cooks decides the menu so if I am making dinner it might be veggie focused with a small amount of fish or chicken. He might make something more substantial like grilled burgers or chili. If the other person does not like the meal, they can make a can of soup, sandwich, or salad. Basically, we respect each others tastes and try to make something the other would still be able to eat and enjoy.
It would have been more interesting to read about what happens in a relationship when one member is on a restricted diet for health reasons such as diabetes and high cholesterol. I'm constantly amazed at the negative reaction I receive when I try to stick to a specific, health-related diet.
Me too, it's like they want to almost sabotage you! It's almost like doing anything different is a threat to some people, the way they react. I never tell the women (or men, come to think of it) in my office that I am trying to lose weight, they all bring in donuts and tell me I'm not overweight!
Yup. Have been there. Keep the diet on the down low...
BTDT. My ex SHOULD have been on a restricted diet, so I cooked the things he should eat, but found out that those after-dinner "errands" he always had weren't really about going to the library or the hardware store - he'd supplement my healthy food with a bucket of fried chicken or a triple-scoop ice cream cone.
Why the snarky comments about vegans on "high horses" making "moral indictments"? Seems like killing animals is the greater disrespect, not an honest effort to be ethically consistent.
QED
+1
Agreed. The need to discuss the ethics of eating meat, especially when children are involved, should not be swept under the rug because others may (and probably will) see you as condescending.
The high horse and snotty comments about vegans are usually because of vegan's attitudes towards others. I have had vegan friends(now ex friends) that make dry heaving sounds when I have a burger. I have had a guest DEMAND, not ask that I cook vegan, cooking vegetarian is not good enough for them, but they wont offer to bring something. I rarely cook meat, and I love vegetarian dishes, but the whole vegan thing, like making their kid spit out gum because it has gelatin from cow hooves in it. Thats just going too far. Just like the guy in the article that didn't eat his father in laws gourmet meal? That's disrespectful. If you come to my house, I am not obligated to cook a certain way for you, I can certainly humor you and cook that way, but I'm not obligated. In the same way, you are obligated to eat what I have to offer, or risk offending me and not getting an invitation back. My son in law got all kinds of crap from me when he pushed all his veggies to the side and wasted the food I spent hours cooking. Of course if your allergic, thats different. Be respectful with your veganism, its your choice, not mine.
Well, not every vegan is on a "high horse." Assumptions=make an a** out of you and me.
Do you actually think that if a vegan was over at your house and you decided to cook something with animal products in it that your vegan friend should eat it? All the vegans I know are eating and living a vegan lifestyle out of ethical reasons. It is not the same as being on a low fat or low carb diet and they might cheap a bit every now and then! Eating vegan is not a diet, it is a lifestyle choice!
Cuz meat eaters ALWAYS feel threatened when an alternative way of eating is mentioned. That's why. Just because THEY think they can't live without eating animals, they think everyone else wants to snatch it away and ruin their fun.
Plus, some of them KNOW the way they eat is BS and just don't want to be reminded of it.
This whole discussion is actually an exercise in accommodating selfishness. I can see the need for compromise here and there (which shouldn't be an issue) when food tastes are voluntary.
However, as a card carrying diabetic I find it astounding that there would be arguments and "issues" over medically necessary dietary restrictions. My BF is fabulous in NOT bringing home high carb foods or eating them in front of me. He is a good person for never complaining about the necessary thought that must go into the purchase or preparation of anything I eat. But he is mature, loving, and intelligent............
I couldn't imagine being with someone who doesn't have an adventurous palate. Since I'm a foodie, I needed to be with someone I could try different things with. For me, it was pretty high on the list of deal breakers in a relationship. I'm so happy my fiance will try anything and everything :)
Same here. After years of men who won't eat anything they don't recognize, one of the little stories I always include when meeting a new man is the day I got creative and put cinnamon in the beef stew. I thought it tasted interesting, my ex complained it didn't taste right. If the guy sides with my ex's opinion that cinnamon only belongs in desserts, then I think twice about getting involved. OTOH, I found a man who not only loved my cinnamon idea, but offered a few suggestions of his own what could be added to beef stew.
First world problems.
If your dietary habits are that different from your partner's, I can't understand why you'd be together in the first place.
Hear, hear!
"I can't understand why you'd be together in the first place." -SeanNJ.
Simply because food may not be a top qualification for someone looking for a partner. Mine wasn't; his wasn't either. I found a partner I love, who treats me like I mean something to him and vice versa. That was our #1 priority and still is to this day.
Having read your other post, with all due respect, the situation you describe isn't remotely close to the types of conflict that are described in the article.
My wife is like your husband: she eats like a pre-schooler. If I gave her nothing but PB&J every day, for all three meals, she'd never complain, and it irritates me to no end; but that's a far stretch from someone whose spouse wretches when a type of food even enters the house.
My point still stands. If someone is so vehemently opposed to a type of food that you enjoy, so much so that you can never have it, then that's not the person for you.
Sean, what if a guy has a dingbat wife who insists on not vaccinating the children but is otherwise a rational, lovable person? That's the same issue as food intolerane. It is a strongly held belief that is not shared. Should those two people separate? Should a couple share all beliefs?
We don't have the complication of clashing culture or religion in our little family. But we have, over the years, evolved into making our own meals. I wish communication and compromise were as simple as the article makes it sound. SIGH. Maybe it is simple when both parties are willing to meet each other halfway. But when only one person is making all the concessions, that's hardly a fair trade.
My husband has very simple tastes and I love a wide variety of foods & flavors. For example, he likes egg salad, cheeseburgers & his view of Italian: pasta with a meat / tomato sauce. I like such a wide variety of foods & dishes from so many different cultures that I wouldn't do a list justice here.
I used to enjoy experimenting with cooking when he showed zero interest in eating what I made, made it clear that he's not eating that "stuff" and started complaining about the smells (curry, onions, etc.), I stopped. Stopped experimenting & finally stopped cooking. Over the years, no more cooking has evolved into eating only prepared foods & leftovers from restaurants ... which has led me to where I am now: depressed in the kitchen. Thank God we have love for each other in other areas and have a variety of other things in our lives.
When a couple needs "counseling" over eating, maybe they should not have gotten together in the first place. Part of being together includes accepting one another, faults and all, without judgement.
Giving a baby almond milk? That guy should be flogged. Make whatever diet choices you want for yourself, and work it out amongst the adults, but don't compromise a baby's health because of your beliefs. Almond milk does NOT contain nearly enough nutrients to even supplement breast milk or formula!!
"Dean did his due diligence in showing me some studies, and after a long discussion with our pediatrician, I surrendered," says Abbott" I guess the pediatrician and the research have different opinions on that. What are your credentials? Are you a registered dietician or a doctor who has studied nutrition or simply an omnivore who feels that other choices besides your own are not valid. Just wondering.....
Don't be ignorant. Read the China study, or any of Dr. Fuhrman's books. If you believe we need cow's milk you are mistaken. Breatfed is best, of course.
The problem with any study is that we see what we want to see. I simply do not enjoy vegetables; I am primarily a meat, potatoes, and pasta person. If meat and carbohydrates were directly responsible for the health issues people like to link them to, I would be as big as a house with a cholesterol and blood pressure off the charts. Yet, I'm at the lower end of a normal weight, have an excellent cholesterol and blood pressure status, and experience no heart problems or diabetic conditions. You know what I do? I exercise. Regularly. Weights and cardio. Exercise mitigates a great deal of diet. The problem is most Americans do not exercise.
My doctor friend ate the way you do. He exercised all the time, too. He also felt diet fixed nearly any problem a diet might cause. He's 52 and had a mild stroke almost a year ago. He's now vegan. He's studying food in a new way and says he should have started eating vegan 10 years ago instead of scoffing at us for doing it. He can't believe all the mythology he's uncovering in his new studies. It's good you're experiencing good health, and I hope it continues that way. My point is-if a person who has made medicine a lifelong career is seeing flaws in the standard American diet, and he's not part of any study at all, maybe there is some truth to something large scale like the China Study.
The conclusions in the book "The China Study" are not the actual conclusions of the study itself. Vegetarians love to say "read The China Study!", yet they don't realize how flawed and twisted the book is.
I agree.
As a vegan myself, who has never given her child cow's milk, I agree. Almond milk is not a good replacement for breastmilk. It even says on the cartons it's not to be used in place of formula.
When my daughter was born, we had a few issues with her getting dehydrated until my milk production fixed itself, and we supplemented with soy formula for awhile-NOT almond milk, or any other non-dairy milk. I can't believe a pediatrician would agree to using nutmilk as a supplement when they could have just used a soy formula.
don't buy into the hype about soy, it's not necessarily good for you and people who eat any processed foods get exposed to way too much processed soy products. There are also a lot of people, including infants, with soy allergies. Additionally, it wasn't a replacement for breast milk it was a supplement. If you're going to use milk instead of formula to supplement, they do suggest rice, almond, or oat milk as a supplement for babies with allergies.
BTW – if you have a decent blender, skip the store bought nut milk and make it at home – it is so friggen easy and there are no additives when you make it at home
Thanks. Like most vegan households, we have a Vitamix. LOL Can't live without it. As to the warnings about soy, yes, I'm well aware of those, too.
My son is 19, used soy formula exclusively, and has grown up eating it as PART of his diet, not a huge CHUNK of it like most people are led to believe about vegans, and guess what? He doesn't have girl tits, still has a penis, and has a deeper voice than is father! LOL
So, if one person wants chicken noodle and one wants vegetable, why not make two pots of soup? This is about silly.
Riight. YOU will make both pots of different soup? WHo lives on soup? What if a child comes into family, thrid type of soup? YOU have all that time to do that? Ever been in a relationship at al?
In a perfect world, everyone would live on soup!
mmmmmmm a hot bowl of soup on a cold and/or rainy day = heaven
Just make a pot of vegetable soup with noodles or rice or whatever. Cook some chicken or pull a rotisserie chicken and let the person who eats chicken add it to the soup.
If one person wants chicken and the other person wants vegetable, just make tomato soup with grilled cheese. How can anyone argue with that? ;)
i totally judge that couple.
Arguing over food?
Really?
People should just be thankful they have something to eat.
I have to totally agree. To be honest, I thought this article was going to be about food fights when one half of a couple is dieting and trying to loose weight and the other person is not. That is a situation that I can see causing real tension.
That would have made a much more interesting article that touched on more psychological issues than this one. All I can see in this article is selfishness... and when it concerns the person you love more than anyone else in the world than you have your priorities out of whack.
Personally, I'm trying to stick to a low calorie diet and get "fed up" when my girlfriend decides to bring home a box of donuts. I understand she doesn't want to diet and I don't care what she eats, but she is going to moan and complain if I don't eat any of the donuts she bought "for us" even though she knows I don't want any – she does. It'll be the same thing when we go to a restaurant and she'll insist on ordering appetizers when I'm trying to limit how much food I'm eating. Either she'll try to convince me to eat them with her or try to get me to eat left overs. I'm trying to let her know without sounding cheap and also not trying to make her sound like a pig... but it's hard to be tactful when someone's shoving donuts in your face!
If you can't sit her down and have a heart-to-heart talk with her about this, maybe you should rethink your relationship with her. She is not respecting your choices and is being self-centered about her own. That's not how you treat someone you supposedly love.
I would have to agree with Diet Rite. If you are not able to have an honest conversation about food, how are you going to tackle the really hard issues and problems that life throws at you? Your relationship should be a loving partnership not adversarial and undermining. You should be able to work as a team for the betterment of both of you. She should be supportive of your diet and trying to be healthy. It means you will be around a lot longer for her.
I probably over dramatized that description a bit. This time last year I was 185 lbs and now I'm around 155-160 at 5'10"... so it's not like I can't eat a donut or two if I so desire. I think the reason she does it is because she isn't ready to give up those foods and I'm reluctant to start eating them regularly again after more or less giving them up for the past year. I'm not trying to lose any more weight but I'm also not trying to let it creep back up.
The thing that bothers me is that the entire time I was excercising and dieting I knew she also wanted to lose weight but didn't want to commit to it. I don't know if she was afraid she would fail in meeting her goal or she didn't have the will power to go through with it, but she had a perfect example of how to lose the weight right in front of her!
She has a compulsion to not waste any food. Normally I would agree, but I'm not going to eat week-old food that is questionable nor am I going to clear my plate if I'm full. The only time we really argue about food is when the box of donuts is almost a week old and I tell her to throw it away – that's when she complains I didn't eat any and she forces herself to eat the rest instead of just chunking it. That also falls back with the appetizers – it's more food than I want and need, and I know she will refuse to throw any of it away. She will call me wasteful, and that is upsetting because I am putting my own health (and hers) ahead of the idea that throwing away leftovers contributes to worldwide starvation.
Sometimes I can't decide if that reaction is to spite me for somehow having the willpower not to eat it all or if she genuinely thinks that throwing away a half eatten sandwich from last week will contribute to starvation...
Either way, food is only a small part of our lives and I could never see it really harming our relationship. I realize that losing weight is not easy and that not everyone is ready to commit to it at the same time. There are many aspects of food and eating that we enjoy together, and this by no means exemplifies a typical day at our home.
Thanks for the advice! I avoid the "honest" conversation because I'm not trying to force her into dieting if she doesn't want to and I find her perfectly attractive as she is. I support her efforts at going to the gym and encourage the right food choices when she makes them. That being said I would be lieing if I said that I didn't want her to change, but for herself, not for me.
Your girl sounds a lot like my husband. When we had kids, he insisted on finishing anything they didn't eat because otherwise it was wasted. When I was watching my weight, he'd bring home things 'on sale', cookies, cakes etc. I know his issues stem from how he was raised, it's the same thing when we visit his mom. He finally was able to see and break his habits when he had medical problems associated with his weight. How we are raised with food lasts a life time, not that we can't change but many folks don't even realize how ingrained their eating habits are. The funny thing is, when the kids got older (8-9), they'd tend to choose salads while mom & dad went for the burger, had many people comment on how did we get the kids to eat that way, it was just a case of breaking our bad habits when we provided them with food. If you like the girl, you'll work it out, food really shouldn't be the deal breaker in any relationship unless it is an extreme issue from the start.
JT,
If your girlfriend wants to buy donuts then she needs to learn that often, you will not be eating them. If she wants to buy some she should buy enough for her. Buying a whole box and expecting you to eat your share is not fair to you. Good luck with that conversation. You need to be honest with your needs. And it sounds like she has food issues.
JT, your issue is not about food. It's about effective communication and respect. Ineffective communication and lack of respect are the two biggest, baddest relationship breakers of all time. I suggest you have a series of respectful yet firm conversations with your partner about both of your needs and how they can be met. If she still knowingly disrespects your needs, ditch her and move on. She won't respect other needs either and then you will lose respect for her.
My ex should've been on a low-calorie diet and HE'S the one who kept buying the donuts (and cookies and donuts and fried chicken....). Eventually, I realized that the only one who was being deprived by not having ice cream in the house was me.
Like like like
And someone to eat it with.
Hi