 5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe. When crying kids disrupt dinner, who ends up paying the price? That was the question posed last week, and more than 21,000 readers weighed in saying that restaurants with stated policies about children's unruly behavior would actually entice them to spend money there. While Firefly executive chef Danny Bortnick has taken steps to make his restaurant more kid-friendly, it is a two-way street - your kids need to act right. And before you go off thinking Bortnick is some kind of booster seat hater, he is a father - and his restaurant is in the middle of Washington D.C.'s Dupont Circle: a densely populated urban neighborhood often busy with families and young kids. Five Ways to Make Your Child More Restaurant-Friendly: Danny Bortnick 1. It all starts at home
2. Make meal periods interactive At restaurants, let them choose what they would like to eat and bring a restaurant-appropriate activity (kids are not interested in adult conversation or spying on the couple at the table next to you, but whatever the activity, make sure it won’t be bothersome to neighboring tables). 3. Make dining out sound like a special, rewarding and fun experience 4. Discuss restaurant etiquette BEFOREHAND as it applies to children
If you are looking for more than the above as you are building good habits, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. The rules for home as far as eating your vegetables, etc., may need to evolve into the restaurant rules. After all, dining out with kids can be stressful enough, so you may want to consider lightening your own stress-load. Focus on the behavioral aspect. Again, use dessert as a reward for good behavior/eating. And be consistent - I cannot stress this enough! Also, be patient. It is going to take time to go from zero to sixty. 5. Call ahead to the restaurant Give the restaurant a heads up that you are bringing children. This gives them a chance to select an appropriate table and perhaps assign a server that has a better disposition for serving families. Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down. |
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Make your self more kid-friendly: 1. Provide, as in most of Europe and other human beings, an appropriate setting for all whose money you wish to collect. Room for wheelchairs, quiet corners for romantic couples, and a kids' corner with coloring table and quiet toys - as they do all over Europe. 2. If you can't stand the part of our population that is under age 21, stay home, or visit/vacation adult-only restaurants and resorts exclusively. Do not attempt to impose your tightly-wrapped, nit-picking personalities on the rest of us.
Such great tips! Thanks!
Had to share: http://minipiccolini.com/2012/03/its-friday-7/
Slurp-o-lishous is what I'm sayin'.
This is not that hard, folks.
1. Bring scratch paper and a pencil for the child. He/she can draw or you could play tic-tac-toe. It keeps the child occupied.
2. If there's no children's menu, order an appetizer for the child with a side order of veggies and ask the server to bring it out with the adults' entrees.
3. If the child acts up, take the child immediately outside (to the car, parking lot, vestibule, whatever). Remind the child about using inside voices, etc. End it with if you act up again, we leave. And be prepared to follow up on that.
This works. By the time our son was 4 we were comfortable taking him to almost any restaurant.
Good, sage advice. However, that only works if you aren't completely self-involved. Alot of these posters *cough,Angela,cough* don't even know what that means.
The dining experience that triggered this was about 6 years ago, but:
If you know your kid does not eat seafood of any kind, don't bring him to a sushi bar and just expect they will be able to accomodate his tastes. Sure they have tomago, umeboshi, cucumber, and avocado, and a meager selection of vegetarian rolls, but there is only so much they can do. What's that? He doesn't like the sushi rice, nori, or inari wrap either? Out of options. Going to go someplace else now? No, of course not, going to stay and continue to whine at the staff for not having a menu your loinfruit could enjoy, all while he loudly proclaims "eeewww, gross!" at what other diners are eating. That's the way to teach your kids how to act and ensure that everyone else in the restaurant hates your guts.
No kidding, is that for real?
I don't think it was mentioned in the article, but take your kids/family to restaurants in the late afternoon or early evening! A lot of times the screaming and melt downs are because little kids are up too late. Restaurants are less crowded at this time of day, anyway, and you get your meals much quicker.
I don't normally get involved in debating such issues but found that after reviewing most of the good and/or bad comments I decided to provide what I hope is a helpful and educational primer to those that have a problem dealing with what my wife and I found to be a simple matter. First, both our children were taught manners and etiquette from practically the time they were born (yes they knew the difference between good and bad behavior at a very early age).
I am not married to Tiger Mom and I am not Tiger Dad, we are simply parents that deal in practicality and logic. Since our daughter first started joining us in fine dining restaurants at 5-6 months of age and her brother following 3 years later we are very, very proud of the fact that NUMBER ONE both of our children were always provided with ancillary activities that kept them busy throughout every meal; not to say they were perfect due to maybe not feeling well on a particular night I can only recall having to leave a fine dining restaurant twice in 20 years due to unacceptable behavior. Maybe we are extremely lucky, I don't think so, what I do think is that it comes from planning and execution to make our children's experience as enjoyable as ours and those sitting around us. Our children definitely raised some eyebrows when entering some restaurants, on the other hand the children over the years discovered that behaving well resulted in a goldrush of rewards from numerous admiring Maître d's, waiters and waitresses (they were liberally comped over the years with treats, desserts, etc. for their behavior). By the age of 11 or 12 our daughter began critiquing her favorite escargot and/or beef bourguignon dishes and to this day neither her or her brother are fast food customers. The downside of this is that our average restaurant bill has increased proportionately through the years.I do disagree that with Chef Bornick to notify the restaurant in advance of bringing children, but agree with his assertion that there is not a need for children's menus. If you don't look forward to dining with your children then you probably need to re-assess your need to partake in fine dining with them; think babysitter. I think that it all comes down to some simple rules in life; education, respect and awareness. Bon Appetit!!!
thank you! While breakfast and lunch are a bit more carefree, dinners in our home are when we practice our manners. Dining out and dinner at home are basically the same. I was raised the same way.
oops! now=NOT above...
Sometimes things are not as they seem. I have a special needs kid and we have used the advice above (kid friendly places, kids menu, etc) and I sometimes give our daughter chips or she might take a few shakes from the salt shaker while the meal is coming because it keeps her seated and quiet. It took many "failed" dining experiences just to get her to tolerate pizza places, and it takes a lot of work. And still, even though my daughter is now loud, I get dirty looks from other patrons if she does things like eat chips before the meal, or starts to act up in a minor way and I am trying to handle the situation with "unusual" techniques. I am a peaceful person, but I just want to clock the sanctimommies who give me those disapproving looks.
You bring your special needs kid to a restaurant knowing she is going to interfere with the meals of other paying customers and then get mad and "want to slap" them when they dare to look at you when your kid starts spazzing out and disruptin their meal? You are the typical self-centered and selfish jerk.
I don't think grahamta is wrong at all. It sounds like her daughter is relatively well-behaved, and most of the "looks" she gets are from other mothers who think she's a bad parent for allowing chips before the meal, or from patrons (at a *pizza joint* mind you) who can't tolerate even the "minor" disruptions she causes.
I could be wrong – maybe "minor" to grahamta means her daughter is flinging food and punching other patrons – but I suspect it means a brief (30-60 second) outburst or something. If I'm right, then that's far less annoying than the adult patron with the horse-laugh or the businessman talking loudly on his cellphone.
"I just want to clock the sanctimommies." Well guess what grahamta? You reproduced not us so take responsibility for your off spring. There is no reason why the rest of us must accomodate you and your special needs child.
I don't like to have d-bags at the bars. STAY OUT OF MY LIFE Michael.
Keep the kids at home
my thoughts exactly.If I do not bother anyone else (and I don't), why should other people bother me with their screaming brats? And this goes for restaurants ,swimming pools and airplanes.Either leave the kids at home or take them to special kid-friendly places ONLY.
I miss the days of going to a restaurant and not hearing screaming children at every table. How about a grown up friendly restaurant for those of us who don't want to be around children 24-7. Is there any place left sacred for adults. i even have happy hour moms rolling their strollers into the bar for a cocktail with the girls in my local bar. I really have to deal with kids in a bar too? Get Your Children Out of My LIFE!!!!!!!
Amen!! I can't even go to an R rated movie at 11pm without screaming babies and toddlers running around anymore. It's crazy. What are these "parents" thinking? My husband and I started making a tally of the number of times a movie has been interrupted by babies or toddlers. Right now the score since we started this tally is 8 disrupted movies, and 3 peaceful movies. Not a single one of these was a kids movie (we wouldn't count those because we expect kids in those movies).
Have you tallied how many times the movie has been disrupted by people texting and talking on their phones? Do you propose to not allow certain races or other demographics to the movies too? So bigoted.
The movie theater I go to has a zero tolerance policy on cell phones and texting. They throw people out without warning the second they are caught, and the problem hasn't happened in a while. What they need is a zero tolerance baby policy too.
And how is anything I said bigoted? What does the race or skin color of a person have to do with this? This is about irresponsible parents letting their kids ruin the entertainment of others. Get a clue.
Claudia: I never comment on these posts but I need to for your comment....nothing that person said was 'bigoted'. The issues are completely different..that person wasn't proposing a n y t h i n g close to racial and/or demographic distinction. Its attitudes like yours that perpetuate further division among various groups of people within our society...not everything needs to spiral into a race issue. It was about not allowing disruptive children into theatres, NOT anything similar to separate water fountains or the like. I can't believe you would suggest that. Sorry but geez.
hi claudia
I don't like to have douche nozzles at the bars. STAY OUT OF MY LIFE Michael.
Where do you live? I haven't been an "adult" movie...particularly an R rated movie with a baby or toddler at it. I do see them at the G rated movies, but I do consider that fair game.
Blinky42 likely lives in an urban area. This is the second larger city I've lived in and in both there are theaters I would not/will not frequent due to experiences of folks bringing babies and toddlers into decidedly NOT kid-friendly films that were showing at or well past bedtime. The crying and whining were bad, but really I would just feel so bad for those kids, considering what crappy parents they seemed to have.
These same rules should apply to the MANY adults who should be asked to leave restaurants. At lease kids have the ability to learn...what's the excuse for the annoying adults I have to endure at many restaurants!
Yep. I've had to endure drunk diners talking too loudly and with graphic profanity, and even with a couple who were (audibly) getting it on under the table. But the difference is those folks tend to stay in their seats. They aren't climbing over into your booth, running between tables, throwing things. Usually, anyway.
Parents cannot win. My husband and I are VERY strict with our children and their behavior. Thus, we are constantly trying to teach them not do be disruptive in public. However, I've been told that I'm a Tiger Mom and I should let them be kids. Conversely, we've also been complimented when my children (5 and 7) have made it through entire 3-course meals at "nicer" restaurants and most other patrons didn't even know they were there. Will my children be tainted as they grow up because we don't let them rule the roost? I think not – we hope they will be respectful, polite, contributing members of society. If that makes me a terrible and tough mother, so be it.
Don't listen to those "tiger mom" comments. They obviously don't know what a tiger mom really is. You're doing the right thing.
I was raised by a "Tiger Mom" and myself have become one as well. My daughter is now almost 7 and she is bothered by what she calls "kids that don't know the rules" and even commented about a young girl throwing a fit one evening in a restaurant. I think her words were..."Wow, she is a mess. Doesn't she know, you get what you get and you don't throw a fit?" There is nothing hard about adults teaching and kids learning good manners. Keep up the good fight!
I really don't think it is appropriate for children to be in certain environments, such as finer dining establishments. #1. there should be a place in every society that is exclusive to adults, where adults can go to be exactly what they are, adults. It is not unreasonable for grown ups to have grown up talk with alcohol in a fitting environment (which is not license to be a rude drunkard), but why should a diner feel censored or uncomfortable simply because you want your kids there. There is booze there. I don't get it. What kind of parent subjects their child to an adult world like alcohol serving eateries? As I said in an earlier post, I see Mom's bringing their kids into bars for a mid noon cocktail with the girls. I actually got shushed at a local bar for being too loud, BECAUSE SOMEONE'S TODDLER WAS SLEEPING!
Seriously, it is not okay to be forcing your kids on adults. You have a sound argument that there are not enough family friendly oriented establishments in this world, but that does not mean you force an adult one to be something it never was: a place for kids.
Is nothing sacred anymore?
I guess I would ask how you define a finer dining restaurant. Alcohol isn't the answer. Applebees, TGIFs, and other mainstream family restaurants serve alcohol. Personally, I do draw a line. That being said, being loud and disruptive at any restaurant (be it by a child or an adult) isn't considerate to other guests. And I'll give children a bit more empathy, if they're at certain restaurants, because they are still in the process of learning better.
Please keep in mind, that most moms don't take their child to these places. All it takes is a couple to give all moms and children a bad reputation. I do think that there is a middle ground.
There is nothing worse than dining out, whether casual or upscale, to have screaming, crying kids or unruly ones tearing up the aisles. I have seen too many parents sit and do nothing, thinking this behavior is acceptable just because "they are kids"! It's equivalent to crying babies in the movies; NERVE WRECKING!! Take control of your kids cuz if you don't, I'm going to the manager and I'm going to complain about you.
"nerve wrecking" made me laugh. It certainly does wreck nerves!
Some of the parents who preach endlessly (and complain endlessly) about how everyone else needs to accommodate them and their precious progeny are completely incondsiderats of restaurant staff. I had lunch at a casual but upscale restaurant not long ago - a very kid friendly place. Two self-absorbed mommies sat in the booth next to mine, with four little kids. The women ate and fooled with their cell phones while the kids clambered all over the booth and under the table, bothering other diners and making an unholy mess of torn napkins, opened and spilled sugar packets, crushed crackers, and God knows what else. These mommies - models of modern parenting - got up and walked away from that disaster at the end of the meal. They didn't pick up one shred, nor dis they ever correct their brats' behavior. So to all of you posters who chide anyone who suggest control the beasties or leve them at home, maybe the problem lies with you?
Urg! That reminds me of the time my husband got a potato in his lap that had been thrown from the other side of the booth by an unruly toddler. What did the parents do? Laugh, and claim "isn't he cute?" I think they were actually really embarrassed about it and were trying to cover up by laughing it off. So, what did the kid do in response to their happy laughter and praise? Threw another potato at my husband. Who saw that coming?
It is the responsibility of parents to teach their children good table manners and proper etiquette while out in public. If the parents have not taught their children properly and the kids become unruly and sloppy in the restaurant, then it id the manager's job to advise the parents to keep their children in line and clean up the mess, and if not, then to immediately leave the restaurant. Every retaurant is a private place and the management always reserves the right to ask people to leave.
Karma visits the self-absorbed couples that let the kids run amok, scream, and trash the table at a restaurant. They are being served healthy portions of snot and spit with their drinks and meals. We witnessed such an event at one of our regular haunts. After they left, the staff were laughing and openly talking about these two couples and what they would do when they saw them coming. It also took two wait staff ten minutes to clean up the carnage.
I agree. I've been in the same situation where parents – with margaritas, martinis, rum and coke, etc in hand – were busy chatting away and their kids were running rampant through the restaurant. 1 – Why would you take your children with you if you plan on drinking 4+ drinks? 2 – Do you have no consideration for any other patrons? 3 – Have you ever heard of "home training"? If these kids act like that in public, I can only imagine what they would act like in their own homes. My daughter is 7 yrs old now. When we go to a restaurant, she reads her menu, gives me her order or asks if she wants something she's not usually allowed to have, and engages in appropriate conversation with me while we wait for our food. People always tell me that I treat her too much like an adult and have restricted her from being a child. If having a well-mannered child means that I've done something wrong, maybe I should go to one of those drunk parents for lessons.
Your daughter reminds me of me at that age. Manners were expected and practiced at dinner at home, as were manners and behavior appropriate to a "grownup" restaurant. Behaving properly was how I earned the privilege of being out shopping with my mother or out for a movie or some similar event with both parents. Being in the "grownup" world required grownup manners and I never had any trouble meeting adult expectations. Then again, my parents always planned ahead to make things easier for all of us.
Actually having two drunk adults start a yelling match or a fight is worse. I also am frustrated by loud talkers who think that everyone needs to hear their conversations about...just about anything.
People, you only remember kids who misbehave. It's unfair to those who does when you say "keep them all at home". Parents probably hate it more than you do when the kids misbehave. But it is sometimes unrealistic to keep the children home all day, and for every meal. Sometimes family travels, sometimes the parents are just too tired to eat at home and would like to be served or families are out for some special event (grandmother's birthday maybe?). There is a huge difference among taking an infant, a toddler, a preschool, a kindergardener or elementary school age kid out. If you say ban them all, then it sounds like you still have some growing up to do.
Parents of misbehaving children hate that too? Really? I doubt. Let me give you example: we went to the zoo. Some 4 year old started chasing a peacock with young ones. What did kid's daddy do? He stood where he was and said once, "don't do that honey." the kid did not stop and continued to do that for the next almost 10 minutes wrecking havoc in the area (not to mention some stress to poor peacock mom). Misbehaving kids have bad parents.
Actually, you just made this individual point. While most parents woudl be mortified by a child's poor behavior, you selected one example of the one child whose one parent didn't seem to do much. I'm guessing that this child was the only one at the zoo...or did you forget to mention the dozen or hundreds of other children you met who were well behaved?
Seriously, you're trying to say parents letting kids running wild at the zoo is a sign that parents don't care that their kids misbehave? Are you going to give me another example with children running wild at the playground is another sign of bad parenting too?
A playground is not a zoo. Kids can "run wild" at a playground. At a zoo they are, or can be, tormenting defenseless animals. It's unfortunate an attendant was not around. The kid described and his clearly clueless parent should have been made to leave.
The original article was more focused on babies. While a lot of kids do control themselves in public, babies will always be unpredictable and should never be taken anywhere that isn't kid-friendly.
You may be right that parents need to get out, etc, etc. However, the parents do not have the right to go into a restaurant with unruly kids who have not been taught good manners and proper etiquette. I owned 11 restaurants in 3 cities until . I retired. I had signs posted at the entrance welcominmg families and children but it stated that the parents had to maintain discipline over the kids or they might be asked to leave immediately. Over the years, I only had a handful of occasions when parents did not abide by the rules and they were immediately escorted to the door. There is never an excuse for impolite and sloppy kids.
Your post also demonstrates that most children and most adults are able to negotiate restaurant meals. I don't think that your signed impacted patron behavior...it just allowed you to act on poor behavior. People rarely remember the good children...only the one bad that one that was loud a year ago.
exactly. kids can behave at restaurants. Many commentators here have issues with kids period. Of course I won't deny that there are some parents who do let their kids run wild. Many don't.
Mr. Bortnick, your article is written like a one size fits all model. Unfortunately you are wrong. I applaud you for having kids that you can easily mold to be dreams in a restaurant. I assume it is your wife's full time job. We are of the type that we don't take ours. Why? Because one of our kids is a beautiful, sweet, loving and extremely sensitive child. Like OCD for 4 year olds. Nothing you suggest would closely help my child or the estimated 15% that full under the same category. They are extremely particular about everything and their wants and desires change by the minute.
I am someone who hated being in restaurants with screaming kids. Now I feel bad for those parents but also agree the parents shouldn't have brought their kids with them. Like me, they should have left them at home. Use their quiet voices: hysterical. Stay in your seat: hysterical. A parent finds themselve being louder than the kids themselves trying to enforce these rules.
You might have wanted to consult with a child psychologist before you drafted your article. But alas, what is done is done.
Jon – it's 2012 not 1950 it is NOT solely the wife's job to be at home with the children and "train" them. Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound.
We will not leave our child at home. If we want to bring him with us we will and if you don't like it too bad. He's learning to behave but he's not yet two. If he gets unruly one of us will take him outside. It works and each time he gets better and better. If we leave him at home when will he learn? All you small minded people out there must have been spawned because you certainly were never a child. I hate when children are rude and impolite but that goes for the parents and other guests as well. Parents need to teach their children, it is not the restaurant's job. Don't let your kid run around and don't let them rip open all the sugar packets – that's just rude. It's up to the parents to determine if little suzy or tommy is ready to go out to eat at something nicer than McDonalds.
"We will not leave our child at home. If we want to bring him with us we will and if you don't like it too bad"
Susan – you are the kind of selfish parent this article was written for. Please don't spawn anymore. One entitled brat from your selfish loins is more than enough.
Your comments are right on! My response just above named "scorpiosrq" answers it the same way you do. You are right in trying to teach your children "on the spot"..... and when they misbehave, you take them outside for discipline or a talking to! You are responding to poor behavior. For the few bad parents with unruly children, I had thousands more that were polite, patient and quiet in their seats.
You are a LAZY parent. Your kids behave that way because you let them. Unless your child truly has a disability, man up and teach them how to behave in public rather than avoiding it. You are doing them no good by not taking them out to dinner. What will happen when they are older??? People like you make it horrible for people like me who have to work with your adult children in the adult world...lame!
This is solely the fault of the restaurants. Instead of shunning those who bring children, they should reach out, and offer to entertain the kids more, and to speed up the service. Family friendly means more business.
And for the record, my kids never do act up.
That's for Chucky Cheese, fast food places and casual dining. As for the rest I always avoid children when the waitress heads toward a table with kids nearby. I ask for another table.
You are obviously a chauvenistic pig and a child hater.
Child hater maybe but not sure about the rest of that. Why does everyone have to accomodate you just because you reproduced?
So, anyone who doesn't want screaming kids in a nice restaurant is a child hater? Yeah, that sounds logical...
I don't mind kids in restaurants as long as they're well-behaved. Of course they don't belong in nicer places, but a normal family or chain restaurant is fine. I've often remarked to my husband, "Look at that little kid. S/he's so good!" On the flip side, parents who allow their child to run around the restaurant or sit in their chair and scream their heads off should be asked to leave the restaurant. Kids will be kids, but it's up to the parents to respect other diners. It doesn't surprise me that restaurants who have instituted a child-free policy have seen a rise in business. When I have date night with my husband or want to have a drink with the girls, the last thing I want is a kid screaming in my ear or flinging potatoes at my back.
It is definitely not the fault or the responsibility of the restaurant to teach children how to behave. It is solely that of the parent(s). Furthermore, if the kids cannot be properly controlled by the parents, then and only then should the management require the parents of the unruly kids to all leave the restaurant immediately. People at the adjoining tables should not be required to listen to loud, obnoxious kids who yell, throw things and run up and down between tables sometimes causing undue hardship to servers trying to carry food on large trays. If those parents who have kids not properly behaving believe that they have the right to eat out, then they should start eating at a McDonalds or Burger King until the kids learn to behave and work up to a better level restaurant.
Mom of three,
Please enlighten me as to why is it the responsibility of the restaurant to keep your kids entertained? You can't bother to pack some crayons and paper or a book? Restaurant waitstaff has enough to worry about without having to put on a show for your kids. Oh, and before you call me a child hater, I am most certainly not. I love going out to eat with my friends (well behaved) children. I am a waitress at bar (that doesn't generally cater to children) who makes sure to have packs of crayons stowed away for when your kids get bored and drops off packages of crackers when I see that you're too busy sipping on your martini to realize that your hungry kid is getting restless.
So how much does real estate cost in the STATE OF DENIAL?
It is the fault of Le Bearnardin and the French Laundry for not hiring clowns to keep your kids entertained? Or does "restaurant" only mean Chuckie Cheese and TGI Fridays to you?
II recently had my 2-1/2 y/o daughter out to two separate 4-star restaurants. She sat in her chair, ate her dinner and politely asked the server for more water – manners, table or otherwise start at home. But when she started getting fidgety and wanting down from her chair then it was up to me as the mother to know her limits; take the child for a short walk (outside, not around the other patrons). I’ve also always made arrangements that if I need to leave because she wasn’t in the mood to sit quietly then again it’s my responsibility to take her home – people work too hard for every dollar earned and it’s not fair for their meals to be disrupted by anyone; toddler or drunk obnoxious patron. Understandably that’s not to say that even the best manners and upbringing won’t stop a melt down from a toddler in unwanted circumstances. Parents need to use common sense, don’t put your child in a situation that he or she can’t handle. If you generally go to “family-friendly” restaurants that don’t mind the noise level of your children, then expect to take them to a nicer restaurant and have them behave completely different, it’s not going to happen. Also, here’s some tips; bring a portable dvd and either their favorite movie or a new movie that will keep their attention, some crayons and coloring books because the nicer restaurants don’t always provide these, if they have a small hand-held game that they enjoy – kids need stimulation and adult conversation is not going to cut-it!
If all else fails and its just not working out ask for your meal to be packed to go and make a special night of it at home, it can be just as fun to throw an old blanket down in the living room and make a picnic.
Here are my rules for kids in restaurants:
1. Get a babysitter.
Thank you.
You will enjoy your meal more. Your kids will enjoy their evening more. The other diners will not be paying for a dining experience they can't enjoy. And the restaurant will make more money, because the other diners will stay for dessert. I can't count how many times we've left a restaurant early and bought less food and drink because of other people's kids whom they believe "never act up." Parents are like penguins in reverse: Instead of recognizing their children's cry amid all other noise, they tune their children's cries out, becasue they're so used to hearing them. The rest of us aren't so lucky, and we do hear your kids, even if they're not actually crying, and are distracted by their running around the restaurant like it's a playground. So we leave, and the restaurant makes less money.
Exactly.
I agree that parents need to be attentive and perceptive about how their kids act in a restaurant, but I think that you unfairly characterize how parents and children act in a restaurant. If my daughter (age 2) can't use her inside voice, can't sit still, can't act like a normal human being at the dinner table like she does at home, she is OUT. We go OUTSIDE. She has a time out or whatever it takes so that we can enjoy a meal together (and not disturb other eaters). And I'm not afraid to pay and leave if necessary.
I know more than one set of parents who do this. I won't apologize for the people who don't understand how to discipline their children, since I'm not part of that group, and I've definitely experienced my fair share of "other people's kids" in restaurants. It seems like you are almost at a point where you can't even stand to hear a child's voice in a restaurant, which is too bad. Kids on the whole, while immature, can be very rewarding people to be around. And that is why I continue to bring my child with me to a restaurant. I ENJOY her company; I don't feel forced to have me with her, and we have a good time.
While these kinds of topics aren't going to make or break world peace, I hope that there are some parents reading out there who can wake up to the fact that they have an opportunity with their kids when they go out to eat. If they will take a moment and stop thinking about themselves and ignoring how their kids act, how great would they feel to know that they are contributing toward the next generation of gracious, responsible people, who have manners and know how to use them? Well, I think it feels great anyway.
Same applies to shopping – kids hate it!
I was reading this article and I don't remember ever being taken out to eat as a child except to MacDonald's or a drive-in where the servers fit a tray over the driver's side window. And it definitely wasn't because I lacked manners. If I misbehaved at the table at home, a spanking was sure to follow.
I agree and it was the same for me. Until we were old enough to behave without being reminded, we stayed outside or were left at home with a babysitter. It was considered normal common courtesty to others.
If this current generation of selfish, narcissistic parents doesn't start to get a clue, they are going to find themselves banned, or 86'd, from more and more restauants. Other people are fed up and have had enough of their misbehaving spawn screaming and allowed to run wild all over the restaurant, hijacking the pleasure from everyone else's dining experience.
My parents had a line that never failed if we acted up in public when we were little: "Have your way now. I'll have my way later." Straightened us right out because they never bluffed.
Nor I. I can't remember being taken to an actual restaurant until I was about 10 or so.
How many decades ago was this? Were both of your parents working? What was their commute time? How many hours did they work? How many siblings did you have? Life has changed a lot over the past 50+ years. The family, family life, and family time have all been squeezed so much. Resturant meals have been come cheaper in comparison to salaries and other expenses. When I hear comments like this, I want to ask did you also have walk to school uphill...both ways?
I'm a few weeks shy of 30, so I clearly didn't grow up 50 years ago. And I can't remember eating at a restaurant other than McDonald's 'til I was a preteen. My parents got a babysitter for the 4 of us kids when they went out, because they wanted a BREAK!
I'm 22 and also didn't eat anywhere nicer than a diner, pizza place, or fast food place until I was around 10. My parents cooked, and my sisters and I cleaned up afterwards. We took a normal bus to school, had nice things and new clothes, a TV, movies, cell phones later on, did team sports, etc.... clearly not decades ago. Additionally, if peoples' salaries really are so much bigger and people can afford to go out more so than people did 20, 30, 40 years ago, why does everyone use credit cards when they pay? Why do so few families actually OWN their house or car? Why is everyone in so much debt – and still going out to places with $13, $18, $20, and $50 dollar entrees with their FIVE YEAR OLD.
My children never act up, raised with good Christian family values. We rarely dine out since our meals are home cooked.
Then why exactly did you leave a post? You basically that you would not participate...
I have raised my daughter with completely secular values and she doesn't act out at restaurants either. It's more about parents setting an expectation and less about religion. We left a restaurant once when my kid was acting crazy and have never had to do so again.
I was raised with no religious values of any type. However, my parents did expect me to behave myself when in public and that's what I did. Religion has nothing to do with it. (But going home without dessert does!)
Isn't that special...
Johnny, thanks for that! I hope that was a reference to Church Lady, because I actually LOL'ed to see what I was thinking already posted by someone else.
Anyone who says their kids never act up is lying – to themselves or to us. And Christianity has nothing to do with it (maybe you were joking about that part?).
And that's the way it should be!
Really now....what does religion have to with good manners? My kids behaved superbly wherever I took them and we did not read the Bible.
I don't care what your personal believe system is – babies are going to cry no matter what.
I guess as a Christian you condone selling your daughter into slavery though. That's what the Bible says.
I taught some of those kids with good Christian values. They can make a jerk of themselves just like the others.
Unfortunately a lot of these posters here feel that having a kid means business as usual, and it doesn't. Having a child means SACRIFICES. You have to sacrifice date nights, going out to the movies as often, going to nice restaurants. You have to find babysitters, arrange your schedule around child care, and pay to have your child looked after while you enjoy yourself. Basically, you give up a lot of your freedom to take on the responsibility of a tiny human being.
If you aren't ready to make these sacrifices please PLEASE don't have children. You aren't ready yet. If you want the date nights, movie nights, and classy restaurant experiences then stay childless until you are ready to make a complete lifestyle change. Some people are never ready to give up their freedom, and so they don't have kids – and that is perfectly fine. My husband and I have always known that we didn't want kids, but we have friends who have always dreamed of being parents and have made those sacrifices.
Just imagine a couple with young children who have hired a babysitter so they can have a nice date night, and then you bring your screaming kid to the restaurant and ruin their night. I hope you people choke on your meal.
Well said!
Snooki is pregnant and the world is better for it. (sarcasm)
Applause! Agree 100%!
Truly well said, but unfortunately we're in the age of the helicopter parents where their children are never wrong and all the world needs to accommodate them. I raised my daughters to behave in public, but (being children) they sometimes did not. Unlike many I see today, I would take my children outside or home and we wouldn't return if they weren't behaving. I do see some very well behaved children while we're out, but unfortunately it takes a very small number of misbehaving children to ruin the entire dining experience for everyone else in the restaurant. Now that mine are grown, I look for Kid Free zones unless we have nieces or nephews in our party.
True 'nuff.
I whole heartedly agree! My husband and I did not go to a movie for three years after our twins were born. And when we finally did, we got a babysitter. I must admit I was so very frustrated that night when some one brought their crying infant to that movie. If you can afford to go to the movies, then you can afford the babysitter. If you can't find a babysitter, then wait until the movie comes out on dvd. Its so simple, parents!
LOL! Why yes, yes it does.
When kids are out they'll act the way they're used to acting, there are no two ways about it.
It's all about parenting, so if they're monsters at the restaurant, they're bound to be monsters at home too.
But go ahead and let them run amok, parents. You're the ones who have to deal with them 24/7. Our ordeal, while unpleasant and inconvenient, is temporary.
Let them get away with behaving like little animals now and when they burst into the real world not only will you pay even more, they'll pay as well.
But even non-monsterish kid behavior can be annoying at a restaurant - getting exciting, talking loudly, and having trouble staying seated, is all normal kid stuff - many kids do much worse stuff of course, scream, disobey parents, whine, throw food....but the point is even the most well-behaved kids need to be taught special rules for special circumstances. Kids can run and jump and dance around all they want in a playground – but they need to be taught at home that change in scenery = change in behavior. There's all sorts of situations that allow parents to teach their kids how to do so, but many parents don't seem to find it important. And that means that parents are either way too indulgent, lazy or they simply don't care about considering other people's feelings.
One of our biggest things when we go out do dinner is to try to get my 2 year old daughter to "not notice other people." Virtually, every person she meets she sees as a potential friend to be smiled at or waved to. If you ignore her, she quickly stops. If you induge her, she'll keep going. During meals out, I often have trouble differentiating the difference between kind responses and those people who actually enjoy it. We had my daughter at church and I felt she was being a bit distruptive so my husband took her out as she was quitely "reading" outloud to herself. After the service, a number of parishioners came over and told us that she wasn't being a problem and that they liked having her there. i doubt that people could hear her 9 feet away, but where do you draw the line?
Use dessert as a reward....and then wonder why 30% of kids are obese.
I think he's saying do this as opposed to give it to them 'every night'. But I agree. Have dessert on a special occasion, that's what me and my husband do...and sometimes our dessert is fruit - we're going to raise our little one to think of dessert as an occasional treat
I agree. If children have already had a healthy meal a small dessert is not going to make them obese.
Dessert isn't going to make a kid obese, but putting the idea of food as a reward into their head is. It teaches them that high calorie, unhealthy foods are a reward for achievement. I don't think we want to go down that road.
Huh, never really thought of it that way. I like your point.
"Use dessert as a reward" also implies withholding it if they don't earn it. It isn't being offered as "everyone is special so everyone gets the molten lava cake" model of parenting, but as "since you made it through a meal without us being asked to leave, you can have a cookie."
I think the chef offers some good ideas. As for the idea that 'kids will be kids'...that is a cop out for parents too lazy to teach their children how to behave in public. Also, parents need to learn how to behave in public with their children as well. If your child is disturbing others when they are paying for a nice meal out, the parent and the child are the ones that need to adjust – not the adults who are, again, paying for a nice meal out. Why anyone would think we should accommodate poor behavior is beyond me.
Spot on!
Agreed, Sargosun.
"My child is special" says Angela & Nate. "If I can tolerate the screaming and carrying on, then everyone around me should be able to look thru junior's bad behavior and appreciate the specialness that is in him." Eeeesh.
C'mon folks. We all have to live together. Just show the consideration for others that you want them to show to you. Recognize that you're raising self-involved Devil's spawn and take it outside when necessary. You made this choice to be a parent. Su ck it up and do it right.
He has some good advice, but I think the "No kids menu = kids aren't welcome" rule is actually pretty standard. If a restaurant welcomes children it will provide a kids menu. Parents should stick to those places, use them as training centers for kids, and once their kids know how to behave in those places, it's time to graduate to the classier places.
Parents who inflict their screaming brats on other paying customers need some kind of punishment, or they'll never learn, and their kids will grow up to be entitled brats. I was in a movie theater last year, and the parents of a screaming baby were just ignoring it. A bunch of people were asking them to do something about it, and they still did nothing. Eventually about a dozen people stood up and surrounded the parents blocking their view of the movie. They finally got the point and left. There comes a point when these rude parents no longer deserve courtesy, and we have to stick together to put them in their place.
Binky42, someone once posted on another thread that they hated the meager & unhealthy selection on some kids' menu's – mac & cheese; chicken nuggets; hot dogs – so they fed their kids off of their adult plates when they go out to dinner. Just based on the mentality of some of the "Angelas" posting here, a restaurant that doesn't offer a kids' menus is too subtle an indicator of an adult only restaurant. IMHO.
Some kids menus do look awful, but just the fact that they have a kids menu means that restaurant welcomes kids. You aren't forced to feed your kids from that menu, but it is a way for the restaurant to say "Hey, bring your kids with you." Also, keep in mind that most restaurants with a kids menu serve crappy kids food because that's what the majority of the public wants.
There are a few restaurants that we attend with my 2½ year old that don't have a children's menu...and they are actually very child friendly. Most of these restaurants serve ethnic food. We were regulars at the restaurant and my then 9 mo daughter lost it so we had them pack up our meal as my husband took her outside. We apologized and they were very gracious about it. They actually described that in their culture they expected children to be part of the family...and to a certain extend children were...children. I had always noticed how many children were at the restaurant and now I know why. They didn't have a children's menu because children were part of the family and ate what the family ate. That being said, I would say I usually go beyond the children’s menu rule to decide if we’d go there. We go to places where we can get a booth as it helps to control her. I also think about when. We try to avoid Friday and Saturday night meals when restaurants are busier. We usually go out once a week and opt for Sunday evening. She is usually very good; but it is funny thought how people think it is ok for adults to speak or laugh very loudly…but if they can even hear a child’s voice talking it is a problem.
I totally agree! Adults are the best model for kids. And that starts at home too. Calm, subdued behavior as a normal state of being will provide a better example for children, not just in restaurants. And exposing kids to lots of experiences in public gives them a chance to see how to behave outside of the home, so that he occasional restaurant outing doesn't lead to such total awe that kids are crazily overstimulated.
@ Angela burrrrrrrrrnnnn
@ Angela ohhh snap
Yes, "kids will be kids", and yes, many adults also behave badly in restaurants. Most of us understand when a child is a bit fussy or fidgety, or is doing "normal kid stuff" at the table, and can deal with it. However, your child's rights end where they infringe on others'. If your child is causing a disturbance (yelling, throwing things, having a tantrum, etc.), remove him; it is NOT doing your child any favors to allow him to have his own way. If your child is running around (and I understand toddlers can sometimes take off unexpectedly), that is a safety hazard to staff and other diners, and you need to stop it immediately. No one is saying that a child needs to sit completely still and silent for the duration of the meal, but we ARE saying that you and your child should respect others as you expect to be respected (sound familiar?). If your child has a developmental disability that causes sudden outbursts, plan ahead. If you know there's a good possibility of your child having an episode while you're out, choose a more child-friendly place to go, and be prepared to leave if the situation becomes uncontrollable. Yes, I have been there and have been the frazzled mom trying to quiet the yelling little boy. We HAVE left places as soon as it was obvious that he wasn't going to stop. Children, no matter what their temperament, age, or capability, need to learn how to act in public places. Again – not robots, just reasonably quiet and respectful of others.
I am ok with kids, can we instead ban the liberals? Nothing annoys me more than having to sit next to someone all meal blathering about a woman's "right to murder" or unlimited spending, or why the rich should pay more, etc. etc. etc.
Why would you ever want ot go out to eat, since like a good little NeoCon you keep your wife in the kitchen fixing your dinner..
Don't forget "pregnant......."
Typical greedy conservative. You all sound like little bratty kids, "me me me mine mine mine." LMAO! Yeah, just keep chasing those red herrings while the Ricky Santriums of the world laugh all the way to the bank.
I eaten out in a lot of places, many that are pro-liberal hipster places, and I've never heard anyone BUT Republicans talking about abortion over a meal.
Using single syllables, I'll bet......
Nice troll.
Honestly if I'm out for a dinner after 8pm and I see very young children behaving badly then I judge the parent because it's obvious that the child is tired and they should be in bed. If I'm going out for an early dinner then I expect old people and families and what comes with it.
When I lived at home my little brother has autism and when we first started taking him out we would go at odd hours just in case he did have a major outburst and didn't start taking him out during normal dinning hours at nicer places until he could behave.
Actually, we usually eat dinner after 8 pm most days because of my work schedule. On that note, we eat out later...and it helps because the restaurants that we go to tend to be nearly empty. Because her schedule is shifted, this actually seems to work well for all involved, and she isn't tired.
Please keep in mind that family structures and schedules in 2012 are different than they were 20 years ago. Flex schedules allow parents to spend more time with children...and odd times to eat.
Well kids – I have to go ...
The lesson for this evening is this ...
Each of you can be reduced to the temperaments of children. It took me one post to reduce you. One post and you became the child. One post and you became disparaging of women; children and classes of people you perceive as lower than you ... You called woman horrible names; made fun of poor mothers and tied being poor in with worth or value of life and how they value or teach their children ...
I'd be scared to think any of you parents or responsible for teaching children to be loving members of a diverse group of life ... one rapidly becoming globalized and will be subject to many cultures with different views on parenting; poverty; women and et al. Some of you will fail miserably at business.... Because any business owner knows the customer doesn't give a damn about being a guest... They know most come in with singular view – themselves. This is why they try to offer an array of foods – and atmospheres. In some cultures and unruly child is a welcome sight – it means spirit. It means the child will not – as another put it – be trained as a dog. Nor does it mean he/she will be bad their entire lives or grow up criminal. Some of the most beautiful minds talented artists and etc – were horrible; incorrigible kids. I guess I just have faith in people though – where most of you, with your highfaluting moral sense of ought( which is crap) on child rearing failed to exhibit the results of said rearing in yourselves. If this were a restaurant – you'd be the vile little children you despise so much.
Good job.
blah blah blah, don't you have someone to stalk at the grocery store with your craziness?
Angela, you're a sad little person who needs a lot of help in life. You have an incredibly incorrect sense of self-importance and are rude and nasty to boot. I hope you get the help you need.
Agree!
Angela please relax. What kind of a response do you have to important articles? Wow!
You're a dumb broad. Please have yourself spayed for the good of the gene pool.
Angela = everything that is wrong with our society.
Good night. Hopefully you'll get enough sleep to be on time for your eight-o'clock appointment with English 101.
Re-read your post and you'll see what I mean.
WHAT!?!?!?!?!?
@Angela.... Lady, you really need to go find yourself a good Patent Lawyer and Patent that drivel you spew out as the first "Literary Laxative". Bet you'd make millions.
Actually I do write ... Realistically. Not drivel spewed from minds of people trying to pretend perfection for thumbs up or likes... Or to get the liking of complete strangers on a thread. I'm an eclectic – on the fringe intellectual who is parent of a possible dictator. I have a dream- MLK is not in it though ... *Sad face* ...
a grocery list... things to git [spelled wrong on purpose}......twinkies cheetos orange pop twinkes potato chips (bbq) twinkies paper plates hot dogs twinkies ...........
My husband and I go to expensive restaurants every once in a while, I have not experienced unruly children, I have, however, experienced unruly adults, Cell phones with loud conversations. At restaurants such as fast food and some of the chain restaurants, Chilies, Applebees, TGIF Fridays....i could tolerate children that get cranky.
In an expensive restaurant, I expect quiet!!!
I love it when they have too many cheap, watered down margaritas and start making out in pleather booths. So respectful ... refined. Why I can literally feel all the high brow morality rolling down their backside ... or crevices elsewhere.
Major disagreement here on one issue: do not use dessert or sweets in general as rewards for something a child should do anyway (I.e., behave at mealtime and eat what he or she is served. This sets up a relationship where you are bargaining with the child. It gives them power over you. I cannot stand parents who refuse to be PARENTS!
Child rearing is much like dog training. You offer positive LIFE rewards for desirable behaviors (that means praise, attention, kisses, playtime, etc.) and you either ignore or mildly correct undesirable behavior. In a restaurant or at a home dining table that means that the child is welcome to participate in the meal as long as he is eating, talking politely, working on the coloring book, etc. If the child acts up, a parent must excuse or remove the child from the table. In a restaurant that means taking the kid outside for a walk. If it's too cold or wet outside to let your child blow off steam, and you aren't in a hotel or mall where you can safely walk the child, you should have left him home with a sitter.
Parents need to think through the possible scenarios and solutions for management before inflicting a tantrum-prone child on people who are paying hard-earned money to dine out in peace. Be thoughtful towards others. It will be a good lesson for your child, too.
So limiting dessert unless your child has eaten a good dinner gives the child control while you would just ignore it if your child only ate dessert?
As a parent of a 2 yr and 2 month old I'm confronted with eating out pretty often. My youngest is fine so long as he's fed (which gets us into public nursing – a different topic but I'll say I'll make Angela above seem like a model of civility if you have even the slightest problem with discreet public nursing). My oldest is usually good, but sometimes difficult. When he's difficult I am very aware of other people's dining experience, but I hope for some understanding from my fellow diners and the restauranteurs. Specifically:
- If my kid is having a meltdown at the end of a meal I'll get him out as fast as I can. Please help me do so by boxing up my leftovers and helping me settle my bill as fast as possible.
- If the meltdown is early in the meal I'll try to take him out and calm him down. If it doesn't work we'll leave. If you see a parent take a misbehaving child outside or away from other diners for a while please be prepared with to-go boxes and a totaled bill.
- On the way out he may make a break for it. I'll keep him out of the kitchen, but I might let him go between tables a bit. He doesn't mess with strangers, but he might get underfoot. Please be aware. We're on our way out.
- For my fellow diners: I'm dealing with it as fast as I can. Judge me and my children silently if you please.
That said, our most common experience is that he behaves great and people around us at most comment on how cute he is. Last weekend he and his pinecone wer the life of the party in a bakery/cafe that was horribly backed up.
If you can afford to dine out that often you can afford to hire a sitter. How dare you give orders to restaurant workers to work around you and your kid! "May get underfoot"? Your kid could trip up a server who is carrying hot plates. He could trip an elderly diner who could break a hip. For krioe's sake, think about other people for 10 seconds, you self-centered jerk!
Because having a child means that you should become a hermit and not expose them to anything otherwise they may offend you. They are right, a good waiter will notice the situation, notice the parent is handling it and do what they can to keep all customers happy. If that makes people a jerk, then you must be a damn moron.
First, people who call others "moron" online are a species unto themselves. One of the lower phyla.
Second, how would hiring a sitter make a parent a "hermit"? Do explain, sweetpea. I'm dying to know.
Third, I hope you haven't bred.
Fiona – I'm sorry, but agree with Brian. If you're willing to call someone a "self-centered jerk." You've got to expect some heat yourself. Now, you pull out the big words "lower phyla."
And just so you know, I do have a 2 1/2 year old. I'm not sure when you were (or if you were) a parent, but a sitter isn't reasonable for most meals out...if your child is generally controlled and you go to the right places...and they don't need to have golden arches. When my daughter is out (at specially selected restaurants at specially selected times), she is usually very good and quiter than most adults there. We've had to pack up the meal 3 times when things didn't go as planned. And while I feel badly about any distrubance, I do think that the 2-3 minutes...was just that 2-3 minutes...or the amount of time it takes for us to realize that there is a problem and pack my daughter up.
Awesome reply! You took my "work with me here" comment as if I was forcing others to raise my kid or something! You reveal an awful lot about yourself there...
In a crowded environment I don't let him wander off. We usually go to wide-open restaurants for this very reason. When there are wait staff around I usually hold him close. But I'm not perfect and he sometimes is under foot. For that matter sometimes I get up to go to the bathroom and will encounter a waiter with a full tray. They've got to keep an eye out for me too – just as I am keeping an eye out for them. I'm just saying look down when there's kids coming to the table or leaving the table.
And as to the "you can afford a sitter because you eat out" – you don't know what you're talking about. We do fine financially and both work, so we eat out pretty often. We're not going to expensive places, however. The sitter would cost at least as much as the meal. Plus our goal is to feed the little guy. It sorta defeats the purpose. Finally its not easy to find a sitter. Sitters are for our nights out (maybe 1/month), not for grabbing dinner at Chipotle!
I love reading all of the posts! Makes me wish for some bleach in the gene pool. I do have a couple of my own comments, which I'm sure will inspire other rebuttals, insults or name calling, but here goes. In many European countries (used to be anyway), children weren't allowed in most restaurants after a certain time of night. Kids should be in bed, not in restaurants disturbing adult diners late in the evening. Granted there are times when that is unavoidable. The real message here is that ALL children need to be taught how to behave in public. Those adults talking too loudly on their cell phones or behaving in any other way inappropriately for a public setting were probably uncontrolled children themselves.
And one last thing on eating out: way to go to teach your children how to cook good wholesome meals! Eating out is only encouraging bad food habits. Yes, we're all busy, but even the lamest of cooks can figure out how to make extra to freeze when there is time to make a meal. Eating out for my family is a treat in itself and not the norm.
Show us the ignorance more please!
Furthermore! Most of my requests were along the lines of "I want to leave fast, please facilitate it." How is that different from a customer waving his hands saying he's late and needs to get the check fast? You may be unhinged...
Nate – As a former server myself, thank you. An unruly child could effect my entire section whether it be by angering my other tables, creating a hazard, or something as simple as creating a big mess. Your attempt to control the situation as best as you can is appreciated by the staff and personally, I would have gladly totaled your bill and boxed up your dinners. My other guests would also appreciate our efforts to get the dining area back to normal.
Nicely said, Nate. Restaurants, as with airplanes, are always tricky places to be with kids. If I see the parents trying their best then that's enough for me. The parents who are yakking away on their cell phones while their children are "under foot", or expect that because they are good at tuning out their screaming children then everyone else is too, or parents who think that their kid tossing macaroni at other people is "cute"..... those parents just chap my hide. But parents who are aware of those around them and are trying their very best in a difficult situation will never get judgment from me (silent or otherwise).
Parents thank me for being on the ball and keeping an eye out for that delicate balance... when I can tell the children are SOOO nearly on the edge of ALMOST just about to be fed up with everything.. I bring to go boxes and the bill right away and process their check BEFORE bothering to bus or take the plates, so that the family can bolt (if need be) as soon as little tears or whining begins. These people are regulars who I enjoy serving ($$) and enjoy my service because of my understanding of child diners. Thank you for your courteous post.. but I do agree with Fiona that you should not require the people of the restaurant to be on the lookout for your child. There are 13+ servers, 200+ guests, and only one of your kid, who comes equipped with 2 parents, 4 eyes, just for him/her. Come on now. The activity inside a busy restaurant is very unpredictable: there can be liquid spilt on the floor briefly before it gets cleaned, the lighting can be dim, your kid is – what – 2 feet tall?, some guest with crutches could drop his crutch, the hostess could drop a stack of menus, there could be a power outage, WHO KNOWS? and the staff must move around the floor very quickly and methodically in order to retain their jobs and give everyone good service. We are lowly service people, here to lick your boots, but even on the airplane you gotta stay out of the aisle.
I would appreciate this kind of service. It is interesting how some servers are better with a child compatable dinner than others. We usually work out our menu choices early or before we get there to help smooth out the process.
My daugther (2 1/2 years) isn't allowed to run, but she often needs to wash her hands before eating. Because she is a "big girl," she doesn't want to be carried any more so she walks on her own. Some places we get many glares as she goes once to the bathroom and back. It is almost like she doesn't have a right to do that! We recognize that she is hard for servers (or anyone else to see) so we go with her to help prevent collisions.
It is interesting how people seem to feel that young children don't have rights...she wasn't even given a meal voucher when our plane was delayed...and she paid full price for her seat so she should have gotten the full benefit.
I breastfed in public. I had one man say something – he got his eye popped. My husband spanked him all over the place. It was a real bad scene. He went to jail – but being business owners, we had the luxury of delivering justice. Taylor just wants what he wants – NOW. I will take him outside ... I try to bring things and plan ahead ... He is just totally different from the others. I have even tried letting Jeff go in first- with the other, order and let it be served. He does good though the first part – but then all hell breaks loose when he's done. He wants to say hello to everyone – any old people and he is a fool for grandparent kisses. He thinks all old people are his grandparents and wants to be with them. Hell he wants to sit with you :) He has no fear of strangers and will come to chill with you. It's when we pick him up – or try to stop him from saying hello or chilling with you – that he gets pissed.
Thanks for that creepy run down, not.
zizi, don't mind Angie. She fancies herself some kind of fantasy writer. The rest of us see him/her as a troll.
Please let me know where you are going to be dining so I can make sure I am someplace else!!!
JESUS.........
Your husband struck another simply for voicing an opinion!? That is unexceptable! If the gentleman in question did in fact go to jail, there is a bit more to the situation than that. Your husband had no right to hit someone for exercising their first amendment rights. If your children are bothering other diners, it is your responsibility to correct the situation. Or by your husbands way of handling things, you deserve to get smacked and sent to jail because your children are harrassing strangers.
I guess I'm struggling with this comment. I think most people in a restaurant (or airplane, for that matter) do not have an issue with a parent who is clearly taking responsibility and taking action when their child is clearly having issues in a restaurant. I AM concerned, however, about the 'underfoot' part of the comment since that's clearly a hazard for the restaurant staff, who don't deserve the risk of being injured because a parent has let their child run around the restaurant. As I've heard many times, people's 'right' to do what they want (and allow certain behaviors in their children) end at the end of their noses. They shouldn't be teaching their kids obliviousness or self-centered behavior.
As a former server throughout my teenage and college years, I have to say that I agree with most of what Nate has posted as long as I can make the assumption that the restaurant isn't a fine dining establishment with a dress code (that is a big clue that even relatively behaved children shouldn't be brought).
I do have to take exception to the "On the way out he may make a break for it. I'll keep him out of the kitchen, but I might let him go between tables a bit." I have a scar on my arm caused by just a circumstance. The child decided to 'make a break for it' and ran into me from behind, shoved against me and I ended up slipping despite trying to right myself and dropping the tray full of wine glasses I was carrying. The child continued running down the hall away from the parent who then shoved past me knocking me into the wine glasses on the ground I was trying to collect. They then had the nerve to tell me after the had their child by the arm that I was endangering their child. As a parent myself I understand being protective, but their 5 year old child ran full force into me, from behind and caused about $200 in lost product and actually physically injured me.
Waitstaff do not have eyes in the back of their head. They should try to avoid running into people walking in the restaurant, but it is not reasonable or even right to expect them to watch for your unruly child. Children should not be running in between tables as that is a certain recipe for disaster. I have also been tripped by a child sticking their legs out from beneath an 'empty' table they were hiding under at the last moment, toys thrown on the ground right behind me with parents not giving a warning and shoved even more times by small children. A shove to the back of someone's knees by a 3 or 4 year old running is actually quite dangerous. I wouldn't believe it was possible for such small children to cause such havok if I hadn't seen it on an almost weekly basis in some of the restaurants I worked in (and those restaurants did not have children's menus).
I would have been more than accomodating by having your boxes ready and your check ready only if you warned me in advance to handle it that way if something happens. I have had the unfortunate experience of not being tipped because I made a family in a similar circumstance 'feel unwelcome' after I asked if they were ready for desert or if I could assist with something and the wife advised they were finished as the father was walking back and forth with a screaming toddler. So I brought boxes and the check and started to box things up. I never made that mistake again after they sent a letter to corporate about how unwelcome I made them feel.
So my advice to parents taking children out to restaurants:
1. Have a plan for if something goes wrong
2. Bring entertainment (multiple & if possibele non-messy types) for your child(ren)
3. Recognize that your 'right' to eat out ends when your child is kicking the backs of seats or throwing tantrums
4. Never let an unruly child away from you in a restaurant, even if it is in the seating/bar/lobby. It is your job as a parent to protect your child and you are failing it if you are relying on others to keep a watch out for them.
5. Advise your waitstaff of how you want possibilities handled. If you want your check and food boxed up during a meltdown without you having to ask during it, let them know ahead of time. Say something like, my spouse and I are attempting to get out of the house but we know sometimes kids can throw a wrench in it. If my son/daughter is having a meltdown, could you help out by boxing up the left overs and getting the check ready ASAP?
Simple, clear expectations that are a win-win for everyone.
Oh and I have a child. We often take her out to eat with us and have since she was a toddler. When she was a toddler, we went to casual establishments and went early or late so we didn't have to wait as long. We kept her entertained but taught her that tantrums and running away were not tolerated. As she grew older we started taking her to more diverse restaurants to the point when she was eight years old she was complimented by the maitre'd at an upscale fine dining establishment for having better manners than many adults. But two weeks ago, she decided at age 11 that making bodily noises with her seat was funny and continued to do so after being asked to stop. I could see the looks other patrons were giving me. I gave her a final warning, paid for the meal I had not yet eaten and since it was not finished yet, left the restaurant with nothing. She was without her ipod for a week as punishment in addition to doing dishes. She apologized the other day and said what made it the worst experience was not getting to eat her favorite meal and that she hadn't believed I would make her leave without it. But that she understood that she was ruining the peaceful meals of everyone around her (this has something to do with my twin nephews visiting and throwing pasta in her hair I think).
It depends on the type of restaurant. A family style restaurant is where I expect children to behave like children, but if it's a nice restaurant, it's best to hire a sitter and have a date night. You don't have to live like a hermit because you have kids. Just take them to kid-friendly places if they tend to behave badly while dining out. It's really not rocket science.
This is all well and good and very great scturctured ideas. For most kids these work or can work. When you have a special needs child all of these go out the window. What gets me is that most people just don't care either if a kid has a special need like autism or downsyndrome or other things like that. These children can be difficult no matter what because they can not express their feelings or needs. People always jump to say that it is bad parenting when in fact it is not. I was thrown out of a resturaunt once because another customer threw a punch at me because my autistic son was upset and couldn't tell us what he needed. I was even on my way taking him out of the resturaunt so he wouldn't disturb anyone anymore when this all went down. The manager and owner were both their at the time and I was told never to come back even tho I was not the violent one. Well there is no longer a resturaunt there after and it will be a long time before that owner ever has a resturaunt again. Its all well and good, but if you want to have a family resturaunt then there are situations you are just going to have to deal with and if you don't want to have those situations then make your place 21 and over!
It's all the fault of others, eh? There are restaurants where noise and disruptive behavior would blend into the ambient noise level, and there are small, intimate restaurants where people might be more willing to give you some space. Perhaps you chose an inappropriate restaurant for your autistic child? I was in a very expensive, small, quiet restaurant a while back and a family had brought "grandma" out with them. She was deep into dementia, talking too loud, squawking. The other diners pretended nothing was going on whenever she did it. You just need to find the right place. It's your responsibility to protect your child from encounters that are bound to go badly.
Here's the hard truth about the world in general – while there are people with special needs, there will always be the world at large that does not really care. It's unfortunate, but all too often there are people who do not raise their mainstream kids with good manners and expect everyone to treat them 'special'.....and those with disabilities who have special needs suffer because of that. The reason this topic is so volatile is BECAUSE more and more parents are not setting expectations of civility and manners for their children, and get upset because they feel infringed upon because they are chastized for not following normal rules of public behavior.
So I guess in order to please you and make your life perfect, my special needs granddaughter should wear a sign stating that she has "WHATEVER".
Go to chuckie cheese. When I am paying for a restaurant meal, keep the "little dear" away from me!
Richard, if I was as classless as you, I would wish that you or your grown children would have a child born with Dravet's Syndrome. Maybe then you would appreciate the little child more than you would your pristine meal.
Richard – that comment is a perfect example of why mainstreaming children with special needs is so important. It is called empathy. While I do think that parents need to make smart choices and attempt to control their child, a community is made of many different kinds of people and things will go much better if we work together.
I'm the woman who accidentally spills water on you at nice restaurants when you bring your child and he/she disrupts my dining experience. Get a baby sitter you cheap credit card carrying over extended pukes.
Hi Pot, yeah this is Kettle calling...
Lol :)
Angela I bet your kids are doing really well in school following all the rules and sitting still.
angela. ill keep this short instead of posting 6 paragraphs of rambling. for u not to care about other peoples dining experience is selfish, ignorant, and direspectful. u are teaching a horrible lesson to your kids. please stay OUT of my restaurant!
Amen.
If it's an upscale restaurant leave the little varmints at home!
Way #6
Shock collars
Save your breath. The kind of parents who let their kids get out of control at restaurants are NOT the kind of people who would do something like read for leisure, let alone CNN.
Hmmm. I enjoy nothing more than watching children act like robots – devoid of all life and sitting glibly by as their parents – who never smile, chew like cows. As a parent – I've been forced to live in reality. Reality is – that not all children are mindless drones who sit as little empty baskets awaiting to be filled with good manners and social etiquette. Children learn from experience when it comes these types situations. The more we go out – the more they learn etiquette. Going out to dinner is not an adult activity – it never has been, unless it's specifically an adult only restaurant or before hand agreed upon adult excursion. Not all kids are patient – they have to be taught patience, sometimes this is annoying as all hell. This can be very frustrating – more frustrating to the parent than it is to the witnesses of your 4 years old's meltdown over her yellow crayon breaking or her 2 year old brother eating it. Sorry if us parents – don't share your delusional – utopian view of dining out with children dear readers. Let me point out something to you :
I don't give a damn about what you think if my kid should have a fit. They are children – not adults. They are not mentally nor emotionally mature(most adults haven't even accomplished this) full sized human primates. They are fun sized bags of wonder and unabashed temperament. You can firmly place your lips on my arse...
Worse than seeing a child act – as a kid, is a kid who is so riddled with fear of social repercussion from snot nosed adults and possible child abuse once they get to parking lot( I've seen that) ... Worse is seeing a child sit an entire meal with eyes cast down and no life at all ... No wonder or emotion. Just little robots sitting – chewing food and listening to the adults chatter on their boring sex lives; ideological political views and how all women dress as skanks – except them and their mother... and religion.
While I can appreciate the children who are well behaved – I realize that not all children have the same temperament- some are naturally headstrong; strong willed; and outright dominant type a personalities ... who fear no hand to the arse. or time out or whatever. Some – like Taylor, who is good at home dining – bit a terror elsewhere, is enough to cause a parent to have a mental breakdown if we have to pull into a parking lot of a sit in diner. So do I care about others eating? No. No I don't – and I will purposely move closer to you if I see you make a snide look or comment. If you do it at grocery store – I will follow you, cart and all, creaming kid and all ... smiling as I do. I'm also known for asking a person if they have something to say – I'm not a nice woman to trifle with. You better remember – I'm in toddler hell, I'm stressed the hell out – and I'm trying to shop or eat. I'm already on edge – you better think twice before saying something. As stressful as it may be for you – I can guarantee the parent is feeling it 10 times more so. So instead of sitting around whining about the inconvenience of children being children – and making snide comments and giving looks .. You instead realize the parent is several times more anxious or stressed and be decent – look the other way and don't give the child attention. You people who've never had children – take a long walk. Your opinion counts even less.
Once again – NO .. I don't care about your dining experience, I just don't. Being a parent of two toddlers has made me desensitized to the feelings of others in these types of situations.
I will however ask them for a seating area nearly vacant or not as busy... Taylor does better if he can't see old people- who he is convinced is his grandparents and will scream till he can sit with grandpa or grandma. Yes – some old people have held him an entire meal. Come to think of it – the older generation never say a word when the kids have a meltdown ... They simply jump in and help. Usually they something like, " They each have their own personalities and we are at their mercy until they adjust! Aren't they wonderful?"
Yes, yes they are.
Screaming – not creaming.
I hope I am never in the same restaurant and you and your kids.
If you're a jerk – hope not either. I've put my boot in places where sun don't shine. I have low tolerance for men in penny loafers.
Wow, you're a real class act, aren't you?
but angela , you could take the pennies and get off welfare
Please identify yourself as the author of this comment the next time you come into my restaurant, and I will gladly show you the door.
Please identify your crappy restaurant.
Yes please identify it so I can go there and not have to deal with this woman and the kid
im in
me too
Wow I'm not allowed to write on here what I really think of low class trash that would write something like this: "I don't give a damn about what you think if my kid should have a fit." then this "Once again – NO .. I don't care about your dining experience, I just don't. Being a parent of two toddlers has made me desensitized to the feelings of others in these types of situations. " Sadly parents like you give all parents a bad name and are the reason restaurants have had to create tough restrictions on children. Most adults are sympathetic and know kids can cry but watching a parent just sit there and do nothing is truly disgusting.
Irony – " low class trash that would write something like this" while insulting me for being what you perceive as me being insulting.... Now who is low class white trash?
Angela she didn't say anything about "white trash". How do you know the ethnicity of this person?
Are you retarded?
Are you retarded? She said low class white trash in response to me ... Please learn to read. I was quoting. So you should be asking how she knows my race.
Angela – that's not what she said. She said, and I quote "what I really think of low class trash ".
The word "white" was not in her sentence. You seem to have worked yourself into such a state that you're seeing words that aren't there. Really, go take a break. Listen to some soft music, lay on the couch and relax for a while – sounds like you may be having a stressful day. Peace :)
BUT,you are
She didn't say "white"
If your kid doesn't "have the temperment" to make restaurant eating tolerable for the rest of us, please STAY HOME (or visit McDonald's). My kids all had different temperments, but I didn't take them to a nice restaurant until they could handle it. Meanwhile, please realize that it takes some work to prepare them well to handle this experience, and it may take more than sipping a martini on the parents' parts to make sure that all goes well once you are seated. 'Cause here's the thing: you are undoubtedly going to be much more forgiving as you teach your kids to behave than the world will be. If you don't care what I think of you and your kids as you destroy my evening out, then I am not going to be particularly cordial as I tell you what I think of your misbehaving brat(s)!
We don't go to nice places with our kids ( Maybe mia- not tay)- adults act this way everywhere though ... So yea, you can't take a snobby; closed off adult anywhere.
Great response. I love it. I would dine a the same resturaunt as you and your family any day! I don't want to dine at a place filled with robots and snobs!
I'm there with you!
You are the kind of parent that makes the rest of us look bad. Your disrespect and "I don't care about anyone else" attitude will ruin your children, if it hasn't already. I feel very sorry for them.
Hmm – Nope. Not caring( about dining). Actually we do a lot of charity.... We run events; make hygiene bags for homeless( out of our own funds)... I run the breast cancer funds here locally all the time... Hold special benefits for people. We hunt and provide meals for homeless...
I'm sorry- I forgot to ask – what do you do?
ANGELA FOR PRESIDENT!!!
They are wonderful because they are your kids and not everybody loves or even likes your kids – just you. Kids that act up in a restaurant do so because they have not been taught better at home. You are shame and a prime example of poor parenting. Me, me, meeeeeeeeeee is all that you truly care about.
I guess if I was anal and assumed the parents haven't disciplined the child ... You must beat yours. I have no stomach for beating.
I don't beat my kids and yet I still expect them to behave in public. It's sad that the only way you think you can get a kid to behave is to beat them.
must be anal
You must be the chick I tell to shut your kids up at the restaurant while they are yelling and screaming and being little animals and you're the one probably making the faces and yelling at the top your voice "What are you looking at? They're just kids." Because of you, I'm never going to McDonalds anymore.
Lol – see McDonalds. You were in the play-ground area huh?
No mention of a husband. Sound like you indeed have two evil bass-tards on your hands. Good for you MISS Stressed Out Mother (you have to earn the right to be called 'mom')
Again assuming. I'm married. Does every woman need to list herself married? Kudo's – women with no husbands are whores and misc low lives. Hahaha. Good job Mr. morality.
Nope. Not at all. Just referring to you. You said it quite succinctly I might add.
trollllllllllllll!!!!!!!!!
Wow. Your rant left me just a little speechless there for a minute. Although I do appreciate your unabashed honesty, let me say that I believe it is people like you who are the problem parents in society.
Yes, I know that children will be children. And no, I don't think any child should act like a mindless drone. I understand that kids will talk and laugh and wiggle in their seats when they're at a restaurant. That's all perfectly reasonable behavior. But the second your 'precious little angel' becomes so disruptive that he's ruining my dining experience then you and I are going to have words. Running around slapping people's seats, screaming their fool heads off, kicking chairs, throwing food, yelling "mommy mommy mommy" over and over again for 20 straight minutes.... all completely unacceptable behavior and behavior that should not be tolerated by any parent.
When my kids get like that I take them outside and tell them they will get no dessert if they keep behaving badly. If they continue, I get my food to go and we leave. I refuse to raise a child that thinks he is the center of the universe and his feelings are more important than others around him. He will learn to show respect for others, at an early age, and often. Parents with your attitude is why we even need articles like this and restaurants that have a "no child" policy. Grow up and stop being so selfish. Goodness.
iheartYOU. Effectively and eloquently put. Thank you for being a voice of reason.
It is quite obvious that you are not Angela's parent or s/he would be a much better behaved troll than s/he is.
It's totally possible to have happy children who know how to behave in public, and it's possible to do it without child abuse. Just because you don't know how to raise your children doesn't mean that it can't be done.
Yes clearly – it's a case of parent not disciplining.... I have 4 kids, I mentioned 2. It's only 1 who acts up- a 2 year old. So yea- you're of low intelligence. Kill yourself.
discipline =/= beating
Jeeze, you just have such a charming personality
"kill yourself".... good gravy, woman! and you're a parent of 4?!?!?!
Is this how you teach your children to treat people or do you just save this type of behavior for us lucky blog readers??
At first I read this and became angry....and then I just realized you need some sleep, maybe a massage and most likely a child-free vacation. I'm a single mom and have three young children and they behave or we leave. Period. End of story. I have paid the bill and packed up the entire crew and hit the road just as our meals were placed on the table. Interestingly enough, I've only had to do that ONCE and my point was made. I did not leave because I was afraid of disrupting someone else's meal....I left because my children were out of line and it is my job to teach them MANNERS.
We do not sit and talk about adult subjects. I talk to my child about THEM and they often lead the conversation....with manners. Of course they get off track and it is my job to steer them back on the right path. It is your job as well. You aren't doing your kids any favors letting them do whatever they want. Perhaps that is not what you're saying at all, but that is certainly how you come across in your post.
I have offered help to more than one mother or father who looked in distress. But someone that is just ignoring their kids crummy behavior will not get help from me.
Amen!!!! Well said.
I never ignore my kids. There is isn't a one story fits all scenario for parenting. That's the point. Being a mother of four – with one child who is 2 and is hard to handle in public – isn't so bad. One out of4 is pretty good:) Every child is different. You see the thread – how quick they were to call me white trash and etc – you didn't. Why? You're intelligent. You stopped- you thought logically and rationally and without bursting into an emotional tantrum .. which is what children do. The other readers and comments ... were as children. Throwing an emotional tantrum on a thread. I can pretty well say – they most likely lie as to their children's behavior- judging by their comments. Or have no children whatsoever...We don't take our children to nice places- only family fun places. Taylor though isn't like the other kids and is difficult. Different families have different cultural methods for parenting ... Families differ entirely on parenting. I'm pretty well tired of all the " holier than thou" comments on parenting – who'd if you took half the perfect family lies as truths – we wouldn't be reading this very article or having this discussion.
AHA!
Angela, you need to relax for a minute. Take a deep breath and understand what's going here. Your initial post was, let's say, less than friendly. Then you replied to someone and said: "you thought logically and rationally and without bursting into an emotional tantrum .. which is what children do. The other readers and comments ... were as children. Throwing an emotional tantrum on a thread.", and yet look back at your initial post – it is pretty much the rant of a spoiled child. That's why people are reacting to you the way they are. And every comment you have replied to you have become increasingly more nasty. You're telling people that they have low intelligence, that they must beat their kids, you even told one person to kill themselves! If you do nothing but respond with childish emotional responses how can you expect anyone to listen to your point of view or take you seriously. Lighten up a little and maybe you'd get more people to see your point.
ohmy has hit the target. Your initial post (and some others after), sound more than a bit hostile and I'm sure got some people pretty riled up. I'm sure you're stressed out.....especially with a stubborn 2-year-old. I remember those days and I totally get it. My youngest just turned 5 a couple of days ago and I remember when I actually got to travel for work about 6 months ago and "slept in" to 6:30 a.m.....I realized I hadn't had a good night's sleep in almost 8 years!!!!
Take a deep breath....and realize that some people just don't get it. There is no use in fighting them here or in a restaurant. Hang in there....soon enough, your youngest will have moved onto a whole new stage....probably stubbornly!
but you said you dont CARE what people think or feel when your kids act up face it! you are a lousey mother who gave up! excuses excuses!!!!!
Angela, you need a day off, a nap, a peaceful bath with a good book, or something because you seem a little frazzled. I think you are really hung up on the whole "trash" comment. I would like to mention you are the one who brought race into it though. Your comments seem to be made simply for the purpose of getting everyone riled up. If that is the case, enjoy your fun while it lasts. Comments like"kill yourself" won't be allowed for long and are a form of bullying. People are starting to be charged criminally for things of that nature so if I were you, I'd be a tad bit more mindful of the venom you post towards others. Good luck with your brood
I don't understand why people who have this I-Don't-Care-Attitude don't think about the couples out there who don't go out that often and/or don't have a lot of money, and this eating-out is a special and rare experience, which gets ruined by your loud and distracting child. Maybe they don't have enough $ for a super fancy place. It could be a couple of any age, old or young, who had to save up money to hire a sitter to watch THEIR kid so they could have a nice dinner, and to their disappointment a loud screaming kid is right next to them. They might as well have just stayed home and saved the money, and you've ruined their special planned out night. Can't you have some compassion and caring for those type of people who don't want you next to them, and are going to shoot you angry looks? They are parents, too, with a dynamic child that isn't a robot, but they chose to be responsible and courteous and spend hard earned $$ on a sitter.
Probably because we don't have a lot of money either? So when we can take them out – and have that one child who is difficult ( we don't believe in dumping him off on others- they'd kill themselves) – we aren't punishing the one who isn't. Life isn't fair, suck it up.
Going to a babysitter isn't 'punishment' it is part of teaching independence and learning to cope without you and to trust other adults and be exposed to novel situations. Young ones are taken care of by adults around them too not just be their parents and it has been a social aspect of human life since forever. You will want your son to be able to go to summer camp, team trips, and eventually off to college without you right? Additionally, forcing diners around you to absorb his *difficult* behavior is like dumping him on them too, which you apparently are nice enough to not do to the sitter but not nice enough to not do that to strangers in a restaurant.
snip and tie them off angela for the love of humanity
For some reason I get the feeling this is the trailer park mom down the street. Dirty kids that look like they haven't had a bath in a week running all over the yard while she sits in the lawn chair smoking her cigarette and drinking her bud lite.
And you're are the clean, well mannered- never name calling, moral high ground white jerk who insults women and their children by assuming living in a trailer means your trash and your children are dirty? I see. Well pointed out.
lol This woman is truly hilarious. This can't be real. She can't be serious.
S/he's not. S/he first came to the regular posters' notice as Just-a-dude and has been trolling under different screen names ever since. Maybe even further back as Jellefo. S/he's just a troll.
I remember Just-a-dude. I always thought that he was also Shirley -U-Jest as well. Same writing style and use of hyphens.
You are correct kind sir! I had forgotten about that moniker. Thanks for the refresher. :)
It sounds like you are being run by your kids. How sad for you. Buck up! Kids will push the limits, and feel most comfortable and thrive when they know the boundaries. Give them some. I've raised 5 boys, and even the one with issues was always well behaved in restaurants. You're not going to ruin your kids by giving them some guidance.
Incase it wasn't obvious, this comment was intended for Angela. Good luck with your kids.....maybe you should go to some parenting classes. If nothing else, at least you will know you're not alone with your challenges.
Wow, what a lot of words just to say "My life sucks so I'll do my best to make yours sucks too when I'm near you."
LMAO! Amen!
Ha ha! The best response. Angela can bite me and everyone posting here.
You sound depressed.
Your remark ">...No I don't – and I will purposely move closer to you if I see you make a snide look or comment. If you do it at grocery store – I will follow you, cart and all, creaming kid and all ... smiling as I do...<" smacks of STALKING, which is illegal.
"I don't give a damn about what you think if my kid should have a fit." Clearly, you're a major part of the problem. Stay home and teach your brats some manners.
Angela, please don't be surprised when your attitude (which you are passing on to your children, whether you intend to or not) results in a polite visit from the restaurant manager or owner informing you that, while you may not, the establishment does care about what other patrons think about their dining experience and has determined to not serve you. Nothing warms the heart so much as the polite round of applause for the house from other patrons that have been subjected to your ilk as you are escorted from the premises.
Yeowzaa Angela – I too hope that I'm never in a restaurant with you or your kids. FIrst of all, if you raise your kids correctly they BEHAVE when they are in public – sure they'll toss legos all over the house or slam the door on you when you pi** them off, but they do that at HOME – like my kids (and surely others!) have done. You raise your kids to (of course), be themselves, but being themselves should also include behaving in public scenarios as they are PUBLIC – not your own home. Creativity, spontanaity (sp?) and other creative vices are indeed wonderful – those attributes should not incude disrespect, or disruption of other people's experiences. If your kids can't handle haute cuisine then take them to the local Chucky Cheese and let them go wild – there is a time and place for everything and every attitude and, yes these lessons will follow them into adulthood. I spend time dancing with my kids in the kitchen and wrestling with them in the living room. Would I expect them to do that in public? NO! If a partent does try to maintain control over an unruly child in a public setting, then that does earn some points in most peoples books but if it gets to the point of disrupting their own and other's experience, it's time to get out and go home. Sadly a lot of parents schedule things for small kids right around nap time or when the child may be out of sorts to begin with. If that's the case, then shame on the parents, either wait until your child is rested or happy or hire a sitter. No need to inflict your misery or issues on others.
I personally don't put up with my kids throwing a fit in a restaurant (though I am lucky to have 2 "easy" children, knock on wood), there are plenty of times I've had no choice but to drag fussy kids to the grocery store. Sometimes there is just no way around it. If people can't even handle being around children in a grocery store of all places then perhaps THEY should hire a delivery service. Even poor families who can't afford to hire a sitter just to buy groceries need to eat. Get over yourselves people.
Forget about causing stress to the surrounding patrons... my question is why would you put your child through that? You know that eating out causes distress for your child, why are you putting him in a situation that causes such distress that he needs to scream? That's just wrong.
Please give us all advance warning the next time you & your family are dining out!
Just look for azzmarks on front walks of restaurants where management bounced Angela's ignorant hind end out.
does anyone else hear a bango when angela chimes in??
some old guy who you dont know is allowed to hold your son? on his lap??? wake up girl!!!!!
Recently we were at a very nice restaurant and a couple came in with a little girl of about 2-3. My husband (who professes not to like kids) groaned when they were seated near us and said "here we go"... We noticed that they were speaking to her in a somewhat intelligent way and kept her entertained by talking to her about various things around them (the restaurant is in an old house) and basically we didn't hear a peep out of her, and no raised voices. She fed herself with a minimum of assistance. The family happened to be Indian Americans but I'd like to think that isn't a dying art. On the other hand we've seen another family with a girl the same age when the hugely obese parents were yacking on separate cell phones the entire time and the child was left to its own devices. This time the little girl was also well behaved but you felt her parents probably didn't notice either way. Which girl do I expect to grow up into a happier, healthier person?
Exactly what does the fact that the second set of parents were obese have to do with the behaviour of their children?? Oh wait...I forgot. In america it's still ok to make assumptions about and discriminate against fat people, but if you do that about anyone else you get in trouble with the aclu. My bad.
Their crass behavior and weight are interconnected, or did the fat cells overwhelm that part of your brain? ...fatty.
Really, your self-pity is off the point, here. Try another conversation.
WellI think pointing out their obesity was off topic and had nothing to do with anything. Obese people can also be good parents. It is besides the point that these people happened to be obese.
Well obviously being fat meant they were bad parents ... duh. Don't you knwo fat people are lazy ... and moms who live in trailer parks are unmarried and dirty whores? Where have you been? Lol.
the truth hurt??
I was stationed in Europe when my son was from 2-5 years old. He sat still and behaved- this was expected and required. We brought a box of crayons and a notebook (we called them his "tools") and he drew to his heart's content (pre-electronics, of course). It is what he expected to do when we went to the restaurant. When the subject warranted, he was included in whatever we were discussing and we always included such topics so he was included. We continuously admired what he drew and kept looking for things in the restaurant he could draw (he got pretty good, in fact). We did not stay too long (which is relative, since European dinners can be pretty long) and let him know how much longer we would be staying before he asked. And, we stuck to our word as to how long we actually did stay.
At 17, he is comfortable sitting at the table as long as we want- and of course is a much more active participant in the conversations. He can carry on a pretty educated discussion and is very respectful in the discussions since he has observed how adult conversations should occur his entire life. He is impressive and I am proud of him.
Knowing who is in charge + rules consistently applied and enforced + encouragment and respect = good parenting.
My parents brought us to restaurants from a very young age - and there were three of us each a year apart! But, we were expected to behave, and if not, we left (and I can think of maybe one time where this actually happened - most of the time we had people come up to us and tell my parents how nice and polite we kids were). I expect the same from my children, and we have had great times as a family at restaurants (and not just "family" restaurants) without disrupting other patrons.
My parents also had one recommendation that I keep in mind today with my own kids: you need to be able to get in and out in about an hour (and that includes wait time for a table). You might have really great kids who know how to behave in restaurants, but they're kids - anything over an hour is stretching their limits!
And trust me, I'm not lenient when it comes to behavior: I've taught preschool for 12 years and it annoys the hell out of me when I have to listen to kids (and parents!) misbehave in restaurants, in stores, in theaters, wherever. I don't tolerate it at home or at work, and I certainly don't want to hear it when I'm "off duty" and out for dinner.
Kudos to you! As someone else stated, consistency & discipline are not punishments, regardless of how your child responds to it. Both are required to teach pets & children what is acceptable behavior and what is not. If you aren't consistent, how will your child know when X behavior is right or when it's wrong? They will not and that is where problems begin. Raising a child or keeping a pet is a responsibility, not a chore. If you do not see it that way, please do not breed or keep pets.
Too bad there has to be an article like this for what should be common sense. We've lost a sense of shame – some people don't seem to feel embarrassed that their child's behavior reflects badly on them because they live life on their own little cloud anyway. :P In continental Europe it used to be that you would see lots of families with children at restaurants, and dining together was a family activity where they learned how to behave right as part of socialising. They are still ahead of us in that respect but lately that's started to break down and people actually worry that they will be going down the same road as us.
Spoiled, unruly children usually behave exactly like their parents – in restaurants and other places.
So I'm assuming you blame parents for every ill act a person acts out – for their entire lives? Children have different temperaments. Some children are easily controllable and consoled – some are not. To say that a child who is unruly – mirrors their parent, is ignorant.
No Angela you are a poor parent.
angela? seriously? and you drive a car and can vote? frickening frighting
Here's an idea... teach your children [what used to be called] manners- at home- BEFORE you take them out into public.
Because children show respect to- their elders, YOU, and others in general- doesn't mean that they're going to go through life at a disadvantage- or that you are stunting their individualism. Quite the contrary.
kids should not be permitted in restaurants, its not that I dislike kids, but lazy parents don't teach them any manners (or don't have any themselves) and the kids become a bother for everyone around them.
Kids need to be exposed to different situations to learn how to act in said situations.
That being said, if the parents don't have the common sense to take a screaming kid outside or to the car until the kid calms down, the restaurant manager should politely advise them to do so.
you're an idiot
People like this are the opposite extreme from Angela and equally as wrong.
Of course children can behave at restaraunts, but of course they may act up sometimes. It's simply a matter of dealing with it and not ignoring it.
This guy is the snob that Angela thinks the rest of us are.
Meki60, so you think all parent-with-kids should not go to restaurants you frequent because you have come across a few kids are unruly (because of their upbringing). Wow ... just wow ... talk about upbringing ...
I just choose to go to restaurants where kids are more likely NOT TO BE IN ATTENDANCE. Nothing ruins my meal that an unruly squalling kid – Restaurants should have signs outside that state KID-FREE restaurant.....if I go in and see a bunch of them....I immediately turn around and leave.
Just because children are in a restaurant does NOT mean that they are unruly and that narrow-minded people like you will become nauseous at the sight of a well-mannered family enjoying a night out. I would much rather ban loud-mouthed businessmen who insist on their right to blab into their cell phones (as if they are all-important). To me, they are no different from the unruly young people you so disdain.
Well that's rude too..! I'd hate to see the kids of people like that!
You were a kid once. Sounds like you're smelly and old now.
Nikki: I'm in love with you.
I would like to know who is still feeding their kids tons of sugar these days. I mean, it's not like it hasn't been in multiple headlines for the past 10 years.
you ever been to Texas? wellll, they must not have gotten the memo (my aunt being a prime example).
Texas is not part of the United States any more.
Just look in people's carts at the grocery store! Full of soda and other sugary junk food.
Actually, they've found that sugar has no connection to hyperactivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperactivity#Sugar_consumption
Obviously, it's not good for you and should be done in moderation, but that's not what's got kids going nuts.
First Off – _DO NOT TAKE YOUNG KIDS TO ADULT PLACES – - I am SICK of young parents who do NOT understand – they are NOW parents – - take the kids to KIDDIE PLACES – - NOT nice quiet restaurants – - better yet – COOK HOME – - ORDER IN – - enjoy the kid time now – - have Adult Time LATER . .
Amen! My dogs act better in public than the vast majority of children these days.
My dog acts better than the majority of adults in public places.
Mine too! I have three kids.....and 3 dogs. I would put any of them (dog or child) up against many of the ding-dong adults I see running around the world these days!
As a mother of two young children...I totally agree with you! The kids hate it, it's embarrassing for the parents, and it just sucks for everyone else at the restaurant. I have NO problem getting a sitter when I want to go to somewhere that caters to adults. EVERYONE involved has a better time!
Agreed, Only when they are mature enought to enjoy the "treat" of a fancy place do I take them. When my son turned 11 he got a treat to go to the Melting Pot (not super fancy, but a nice place for a 11 year old). It was fun for all to see him enjoy himself, our little one stayed with Grandma and Grandpa were she belonged. It was a nice evening out and fun for all of us because there was no 2 year old to worry about. When our little lady is 11 if she is as mature as her brother she will get the same treatment.
Thank you! Those same kids who are allowed to scream and misbehave in restaurants are the ones who grow up and sit in my junior high class, expecting the entire world to accommodate their every whim. Believe it. It only gets worse as they get older.
K, thanks for the insight Debbie Downer.
Raise your kids with manners and take them out to restaurants from day 1 and you won't have problems, or have to wait until they are 11 years old! They should be fine be 5 or 6. But believe me, I've seen many who are not. It's simple laziness on the part of the parent.
Or the kids have special needs, such as autism. You really can't be too judgemental.
Laziness is Angela's problem. She does not get the whole parenting thing. She thinks kids just grow up like weeds.
Young parents? Hmm, I'd easily say old parents are just as crappy.
I actually find most children to be well behaved in restaurants. A well behaved child, however, is not an adult, and to expect all children to behave like adults is something only those without children do! The chef appears to understand this, as is evidenced by his point about no throwing food and having low expectations if the child is under three.
Are you delusional? Good grief . . . If you're a parent already, and this is truly your perception, please keep your own kids out of restaurants.
I don't know where you live or where you're eating out, but where I live probably 90% of the children I see in restaurants are quite well behaved. As in all things it's the minority who ruin it for everyone else. Adults are great at this, too!
Any child, even young ones can be taught enough manners to talk quietly (use indoor voice), use silverware, and sit at the table and not disrupt others for 45 minutes at a meal. If this behavior is expected at home, which it should be, then it shouldn't be hard at all. It all starts at home. If you can't make your kids do this at home, then you probably should limit restaurant visits to fast food places and chuck e cheese. There is nothing wrong with teaching a child to respect the person who prepared the meal, and everyone else at the table by allowing everyone to enjoy it.
I completely agree with this! But even so, kids are going to want to color the children's placemat, if there is one, they're going to wave at people they don't know, or they are going to count sugar packets while they wait, or they are going to get squirmy if the check takes fifteen minutes. None of this is bad behavior, but it's also not adult behavior. If you're dining at a restaurant with a children's menu and you see the above, I don't understand how you can be offended.
Exactly. I don't take my kids to fancy places anyway ... People get attitude at a Chili's ... daytime. You'd think their whole world is going to crumble if a two year old should break out in a scene.
Angela, it sounds like you're saying it's ok for kids to misbehave at Chili's, but not at fine dining establishments. The point of the article is that children can be taught to behave anywhere regardless of the caliber of the restaurant. Would that you take heed when teaching your own offspring.
If you read all Angela's posts .... she is just a lazy sloth of a parent. Sorry you got pregnant. I have a feeling you are a single parent and depressed. Get help with some parenting classes.
Lmao!!! chilies isnt fine dining you hick!!!
I wholeheartedly agree with you Kristen! Some people really need to loosen up. Having once worked in a restaurant during my younger years, I learned it was the over demanding adults who were much more obnoxious and rude. At least kids have an excuse, rather than a belligerent, grumpy fat man. I'd rather have served a table full of kids than adults any day!
:) Bingo.
Did the kids tip you?
Are you trying to imply that adults can be as disrespectful and rude as they want because they tip?
Actually, they do tip...because their parents do.
And no, tipping does not excuse bad behavior by a child and more notably an adult.
As a parent of a 2 1/2 year old I do appreciate good friendly service...and it is a different kind of service than I wanted when it is adult only. Don't fret if I order everything at once (beverages and food). It is nice to bring my daughter's meal before ours just like an appetizer. Please include my child in the roll count when you bring rolls to the table. A smile and a comment to my daughter helps her to engage...and you'd do it to an adult. You won't make us feel rushed if you bring us the bill while we're still eating...actually, we often reqest that so that so that we could leave if my daughter gets ready before we do. My daughter has melted down three times while out and we had her out within 3 or so minutes.
Also, parents need to choose where to go wisely. I would not take my children when young, or my grandchildren now to a fancy place. We go to chain type places (i.e. Chilis) which are set up for kids and quicker in and out.
What if the trend is already established that the children rule in a restaurant. What would you do if as soon as you sat down with a couple and their two children and the 1st child said, I am not going to eat anything unless I get a dessert. I am going to talk loud and stand on my chair unless I get dessert and on and on it goes. While his brother says me too. This is how all meals are at home or when they go out. I wanted to suggest I give up my meal and that the boys and I would be outside waiting for the rest of you.
That's not a restaurant behavior issue, that's a simple overall parents need to be parents issue. That family is in for a world of problems when these little tyrants are no longer pick up size.
we started our child early: sit up at the table, arms off the table, hold your fork correctly, chew with your mouth closed, speak, but do not yell, stay in your seat, ask to be excused. They taught the same at day care.
Now, we, as parents, had to be on our best behavior as well. Discipline is not punishment, it is also courtesy. Unfortunately, the kids with awful manners seem to have learned them from their parents.
I've been around my relatives' kids at mealtimes, and I'm shocked by the lack of enforcement of the most basic rules, just like the ones you mentioned. They stayed with us over christmas and they made every meal stressful, including christmas dinner, and it was all about them. 90% of the time, they refused to eat, and then it turns into this power struggle where they start fooling around, standing on their chairs, getting up and down from the table, yelling and just generally being rude. This cycle would go on until their mom hand fed them (they are way too old for this) or they got in trouble and got sent crying to timeout. Having to sit through a half hour of "If you don't eat, you don't get dessert. I guess you don't want dessert...eat your meat...you have to eat that, or you will get a timeout...sit down and eat...stop playing with your food and eat..." over and over and over is enough to ruin the entire meal, and they are old enough to be made to sit politely and eat, and not disrupt the meal for everyone else. I know I wouldn't put up with this...I wish more kids were brought up like yours.
My daughter was probably her worst over Christmas. Because of multiple flight problems (a door, an engine, weather, rebooking), at 2 hour flight took 36 hours and loading up the plane 5 times instead of just once. In order to make the trip as plesant as we could for the other passangers on the plane, we ended up catering to her every whim...which we generally don't at home. At my mother's house, she was also spoiled and had every need met. In addition, I think that she felt stress from being at home or bed and the change in her routine. All these things came down to her having the worst behavior I've ever seen in my 2 1/2 year old, while she didn't run at restaurants, she stopped following instructions. When she got back, they even noted the change in her behavior at day care. Well, a week later, she was back to our happy, well-behaved little girl.
I guess my comment is...don't use what you see at Christmas as the whole story about a child's behavior.
It also takes many repetitions. My youngest when she was old enough to be out of the high chair started playing with her food when she was done, basically making a mess. I was able to just take her plate away to solve the problem. However, her sitter did not have this luxury with more than one small child eating at once. She asked if I minded if she tell my daughter she had to go back in the high chair and eat baby food if she wanted to act like a baby. I was okay with trying it, my daughter being a strong willed child, said she liked baby food. It took a few days but she finally understood the rules and followed them. Most children take patience and the proper environment for learning – a restaurant is not that environment, home is.
Yup, sounds about spot on for how I was raised and that seems to have worked pretty well. I love going to nice restaurants as an adult now, like trying unusual dishes, and I'm completely comfortable with it. I can always tell who at the tables around me was raised in Chuck E. Cheez exclusively because they have zero manners and mispronounce their orders. Teach your kids proper manners from the beginning and it will pay off when they're adults.
How about the adults who can't live without their cell phones while dining? I really don't want to hear your conversation blaring.
I can totally agree with this.... in a nice restaurant. However, I was at a certain sports bar/restaurant, you know the type. at least 600 televisions, music playing and people screaming for their teams. I was waiting for a large group of people for a birthday get together and was answering calls to make sure everyone knew how to get there. After the third call in probably 15 minutes, a couple had the nerve to tell me to stay off the phone. I laughed and told the guy that if he was trying to impress his date with a classy dining experience, this wasn't the place. I then (very facetiously) offered to compensate him by paying for a round on the guitar hero or perhaps the test-how-hard-you-punch arcade game.
don't get me wrong. I put my phone on vibrate when I go to a nice place (i.e. ones without televisions) and usually when I take a call, I leave the dining area. but this was just ridiculous.
You sound very respectable to others, and I appreciate that. A short call is no issue. You are not the one I would be referring to, but rather the person who puts it in speake phone mode and talks so loud you can't help but hear every word and its just a normal conversation – "hey – how are you doing..."
Absolutely!
I am seeing more and more kids who can't live without their cell phones, too. They play games and/or watch movies on their or their parents' phones the entire time.. while waiting in the lobby, then glancing up once to bark their drink order ("shirley temple"), and while they eat. Most have a little stand so it can stare them in the face without the need for physical labor (grasping). The parents won't even move the kids' phones out of the way when I'm trying to set their plates down in front of them. It's true that this keeps the kids quiet at the restaurant but it also makes them look like glow-face zombie children and predicts what their adult life will probably end up being..
Hands down one of the better articles I have read this year. Sorry, Donkey (using Shrek voice), children do not rule the world and all of the world is not a plaground. This holds especialy true for restaurants that do not have ball pits or slides: restaurants are where adult people go to interact as an adult activity, be it business, romance, or relaxation. Adult activity can include sharing family time with children, but it shold not come at the expense of the other adults who don't have young children, shelled out for a sitter, or who have well behaved children at the table.
To Don Key, its not that we are not "kid friendly" Its if i want to enjoy a nice night out i don't want some parent that can not control their kid for an hour. I just think parents need to be more mindful of the people they are around. On the other hand i also give parents wiggle room if they are trying to calm their children. I just don't like the parents that let their kids run wild in a store,
Maybe i was just brought up different. but after a certain age i would never yell, cry or throw a temper for something. It resulted in my getting my backside painted red.
Really? I agree that we need to be more attuned to children's needs, BUT, children are working themselves into grown-ups. I don't think it's at ALL over the top to teach, at an age-appropriate level, etiquette and expected behavior for when children are going to be out of the home. Kids deserve to be kids, yes, but there are societal expectations for public behavior. I hate squealing children at a quiet restaurant, unsupervised kids on heelies knocking over grandmas at WalMart, and kids being rude to teachers and each other at school. It's NOT okay.
If parents take the time to teach and model appropriate, courteous behavior, they give their children skills they're going to use for a lifetime.
Sure let's make restaurants more kid friendly that way they can die from eating that crap just like grownups.steak is tender cause they soak it in butter,the big fast food place processes the hamburg so it looks like a pink snake before they make it look like a hamburg and don't forget that these places don't buy the real good food,if they did they wouldn't make a profit.eat the fat,butter,gluten and all the garbage they serve to keep the population at an even level.Oh i'm sorry,that's why we have wars.stupid me.
OK. Bit of different take, but fair point.
Don ( I refuse to say Joy because that seems to have been robbed from all aspects of your life, dietary and otherwise )....
Seriously? Its the evil restaurants that are killing us? And, with Gluten? Seriously? The protein that has been found naturally on earth and eaten for years and years? Get off your wheat grass eating, Whole foods shopping, high horse and live a little. And if you choose not too, fine, but stop being so unfairly judgmental. When you go to dinner parties, I am sure the hosts love having to cater to your dietary "needs."
Thanks for contributing nothing to the subject at hand
Don ( I refuse to say Joy because that seems to have been robbed from all aspects of your life, dietary and otherwise )...
Seriously? Its the evil restaurants that are killing us? And, with Gluten? Seriously? The protein that has been found naturally on earth and eaten for years and years? Get off your wheat grass eating, Whole foods shopping, high horse and live a little. And if you choose not too, fine, but stop being so unfairly judgmental. When you go to dinner parties, I am sure the hosts love having to cater to your dietary "needs."
Thanks for contributing nothing to the subject at hand
I can't believe I'm reading this stuff. When crying kids disrupt the restaurant....what do you do?? Hahahah....you take the kids OUT of the restaurant and spank them. My parents took my sister and I to restaurants when we were very little and let me tell you, we behaved because we were TAUGHT to by our parents. You don't cater to spoiled little kids, you make them behave for pete's sake.....that's the parents job. Sheesh!!! I guess some people were born to be parents and some weren't.
Some places that works and some it doesn't. My sister and I were at a department store. Her daughter was acting up and she gave the kid a swat on the but. Even caught it on video, but she spent 90 days in jail for it. The judge said it wasn't that bad, but because of the way the law was written in there county she had to serve those 90 days for being a parent. What has this world come to.
Spank a child, in this day and time, in front of people. Then you're going to have another type of dogooder reporting you to CPS for hitting the child.
My sister is a well known chef in St. Louis. She and my brother in law often dined in fellow chefs restaurants, At eight months old, she put a fork in her daughter's hand and, in her words, "taught that baby to eat". By the time she was two her manners were perfect. Following that, we did the same with our daughter, adopted from China at 11 months. Nothing gave me a bigger kick when a snooty waiter would say "we don't SERVE little children as we DO NOT have booster seats". Fine, we would reply, no problem. By the end of our meal, they would invariably lean over to say, "that's the best behaved baby I have ever seen". We'd smile and simply agree.
Parents, learn to control your children and teach them good manners. If you want to act crazy, take them to the Golden Corral or any Chinese buffet where chaos is tolerated.
I went to dinner one evening with my family, including my niece with her three small children. I cringed at the idea until I heard her say to them "be on your restaurant behavior" before we got out of the car and headed inside. The kids were quiet and well-mannered. They sat quietly at the table, ate their food and continued to sit quietly when they were done. I was amazed and complimented her on her child-raising skills. And they are grown into smart and well-adjusted young men and women. It can be done, you just have to have the will and discipline to do it.
Are you kidding me how about making the human race more kid friendly.
Spoken like a true parent of an "unruly" child. Most of us understand one scream, but a continuous stream of shrieks and leaving a table behind that looks like a disaster zone while my husband and I are trying to have our one quiet evening together as a couple is the kind of self-centeredness that has created our self-destructing "me-first" society.
Don, you're the guy who probably needs to take their kids to the Golden Corral or your local Chinese Buffet. Kid-friendly (chaos) is tolerated there. Just look at the mess people leave. And yes, I have a child, and since two, has had perfect restaurant manners. And she LOVES going out to eat in nice places. Tends to order salmon or filet, so there is a down side to developing your children's palate early. She's gotten pricey.
You are the problem everyone talks about. Is it everyone's place to please you? Do you understand the concept of good manners, or civilized behaviour?
or.. like the comment above you, actually teach your children to be respectful of others.. look at the comment above yours, see how well that one turned out? when you go to a restaurant, you are a guest.. paying customer or not. act like one.
The thing is, letting kids get away with disrespectful behavior isn't doing the kids any favors, either. Eventually, those kids grow up and find out the world really doesn't revolve around them. Why not teach them how to succeed in life instead of setting them up for a fall? This article could have easily fit in a parenting section instead of Eatocracy.
No, it's making your child fit into the human race, not dumbing everything down for them!
Human primate. Animals. There is no such thing as race by the way ... It's a social concept ... not a biological one. My four year old knows this ... I'm sad for you. I wish you had a mother like me – you'd know these things. But alas I wasn't and so you don't.
Angela, while your sentiment is nice, your statement is wrong. Biologically, there are different races. As an example, sickle cell anemia is a disease that effects people of only one race of the species homo sapiens. What we are is one species. I would like to think that's the word you were intending to use. I hope you are more selective of your words when teaching your children than you are at posting on the 'net.
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Angela, while your sentiment is nice, your statement is wrong. Biologically, there are different races. As an example, sickle cell anemia is a disease that effects people of only one race of the species h o m o sapiens. What we are is one species. I would like to think that's the word you were intending to use. I hope you are more selective of your words when teaching your children than you are at posting on the 'net.
LMAO!!!! Stop angela !! your killing me!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!
Sorry, I hate to side with Angela on this one.
Since the 1960's many scientists have come to understand the concept of race as a social construct mapped on to phenotypes in different culturally determined ways, and not as a biological (genetic) concept. There have been multiple prominent scientists and journal articles that have come out against this term describing genetics. And yes, I too was surprised when I first read about this.
That being said, race as it used here was correct. Human race is a term for the human species not a social division of humans.
A faculty member who teaches genetics
A medical genetics faculty member
Sorry, I hate to side with Angela on this one.
Since the 1960's many scientists have come to understand the concept of race as a social construct mapped on to phenotypes in different culturally determined ways, and not as a biological (genetic) concept. There have been multiple prominent scientists and journal articles that have come out against this term describing genetics. And yes, I too was surprised when I first read about this.
That being said, race as it used here was correct. Human race is a term for the human species not a social division of humans.
A faculty member who teaches genetics
A medical genetics faculty member
race (noun)
(1) A group or population of humans categorized on the basis of various sets of heritable characteristics (such as color of skin, eyes, and hair).
(2) A descent from a common heritage, ancestor, breed or stock.
(3) A tribe or family of people sharing a common breed or lineage.
(4) A population of interbreeding species that develops distinct characteristics differing from other populations of the same species, especially as caused by geographical isolation.
hu·man (noun)
1. A member of the genus Homo and especially of the species H. sapiens.
2. A person: the extraordinary humans who explored Antarctica.