 Gentlemen - dare I say your special lady friend looks just smashing tonight? She went out and got her hair and nails done, tweezed various things, squeezed herself into magical, shape-carving, circulation-repressing undergarments (that she'll discreetly remove before you ever see them), and painted on her date face. She's pretty hot. But you, sir. Would it truly unman you to put on a tie? Maybe one without a passive-aggressive Looney Toons character or sports logo stitched uponst it? Okay, okay - that was overreaching. Might you consider dress shoes? Perhaps something with a non-rubber sole or without a visible logo? Maybe something that covers the toe area? No? Well, it was worth a shot. And congratulations, sir. Your female companion must be exceptionally enamored of your other attributes because as I mentioned before, she looks like a million bucks and you...you were aware that this dinner date was taking place in public, right? At a restaurant? This is why dress codes rock. They set up expectations and a calming assurance that you will be neither over nor under dressed. They're egalitarian, not elitist - from "no shirt, no shoes, no service" to "gentlemen are required to wear a jacket in the dining room." If exercised in good faith - which it often is - the policy will relegate a Fortune 500 CEO in deck shoes and an open collar to the restaurant lounge, while the broke student in a borrowed tie and jacket, who saved up for months to take his date out for the meal of a lifetime, gets a "Right this way, sir." He played by the rules. While some establishments make special exceptions for celebrities and high-rolling regulars, it's certainly not always the case. Culturemap Houston reported just this week that Food Network star Paula Deen was denied entry to a Vic and Anthony's Steakhouse because her husband's pants were of inadequate length, and the couple's assistant hadn't packed any that fit the restaurant's stated, "We do not allow hats, shorts or flip-flops" policy. The couple decamped to a nearby Morton's steakhouse. Just last week, I sat in the bar of a high-end, award-winning restaurant I'd always been a tad too intimidated to visit, fearing I just wasn't fancy enough. As it turns out, I shouldn't have worried. I'd fussed and fretted and put on what I hoped was a sufficiently swanky ensemble, and watched as a stream of clearly well-to-do gentlemen strolled in with gorgeously decked-out women on their arms and jeans and sneakers on their lower halves. They were inevitably escorted to the equally expensive, but rather less prestigious lounge area. Their dates looked...disappointed. The restaurant's dress code is clearly stated on their website, and I couldn't help but ask a friend of mine who worked there what was behind the under dressed men's thinking. His take - with a check average of $230 per person, plenty of diners feel entitled to wear what they want; but it's still his job to enforce the rules. Napa Valley chef and restaurateur Michael Chiarello recently evoked the same sort of scenario in a column for Inside Scoop SF, writing of a customer who'd come into his restaurant Bottega in flip-flops and a torn T-shirt, "The more virtuous side of my brain says, 'They’re paying for the meal; they have the right to wear what they like.' My brain’s snarky side (which seems to expand on hot days) says, 'He is embarrassing every table that chose to dress appropriately for dinner.'" "Embarrassing" might be a strong word, but I get what he's saying. Perhaps in an ideal world, we should be wholly focused on our own experience and that of our companions, and how other people choose to comport themselves should be the least of our worries. But restaurants, at their very best, are a grand and invisible theater, and everyone in them plays a part. It's why we leave our homes to eat in the company of others, rather than just gnawing at hunks of cold pizza on the couch while watching Law & Order reruns (though that is a frequent and awesome option). The food (and not having to cook or clean up after it) is a significant part, of course, but so are a thousand other factors - the service, the music, the decor, and yes, the behavior and sartorial stylings of other diners. When all these things are in harmony, magic can happen. When it doesn't, the whole night can hit a sour note. Give it a shot - flip-flop your policy and knot up a tie before you tie one on next time. If you find you don't like it, there's plenty of room in the lounge. |
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If you don't agree to it, then don't go to that kind of restaurant. There's something for everybody.
Went to Morton's in DC and guess what .... the women dressed nicely and properly and many of the men of an Obama persuasion wore shorts or baggy underwear showing jeans and baseball hats. Thank god there are 2 places in the city that still refuse entry without a jacket or tie to prevent riff-raff from dining.
Really? You had to bring up Obama? So "Obama persuasion"....they were the duly elected leaders of democratic nations?
RIGHT? Great answer to the (thinly veiled) RACIST comment!
I work in the biz and fully support dress codes! I live in Hawaii and one of my complaints is that this place it too casual. I know of, and have worked in places that do keep a few jackets in the closet for men who are otherwised "dressed appropriately" but have no jacket.
If you're on the beach, great, wear your shorts and sandals. If you're going out to dine, put on some proper clothes. I don't want to put time and effort into getting dressed only to have to look at someone who just came from the beach sitting next to me. AND I don't want the "aromas" wafting from under someone's tank-top clad armpits to *%#^ up the taste of my '58 Lafitte either!
A great place for food and drink specials is SpecialsAgent.com. They have over a million bar and restaurant deals, coupons, discounted specials and venue features. The site even features handy reviews and content from open table so you can find specials, book a reservation and get directions all in the same place. Check it out!
I don't own a tie and wouldn't spend my hard earned money on a ridiculously over priced meal at any of these restaurants! For that kind of money you could by groceries for 2 or 3 weeks!! Times are REALLY tough now and snooty people at overpriced eateries are slitting their own throats driving away paying customers....Well when your business is failing (or failed) don't come looking for a hand out or sympathy when your back working 3rd shift at Steak & Shake!!
That's what was so nice about the sixties, a la Mad Men and Pan Am style. Everybody dressed up. It showed respect for oneself and others. Now I see half dressed women with tattoos everywhere – fat half-dressed women. And the men aren't any better.
I wouldn't eat at a place that had a dress code for its customers. If I am paying 230$ for a check, I'll wear what I damn well please. Dress codes are for school and work, not for when I'm paying to enjoy a meal.
You will not be missed. Hooters will appreciate your business.
Agreed. If you are dropping that kind of cash, then within reason you should be able to wear whatever. Stupid restaurants lose a lot of money from their snobbery.
What about respecting your date with dressing appropriately? Would men like it if we showed up in “whatever”. Maybe our nice comfy sweatpants!
"Restaurants should be able to enforce a dress code if they want" is a reasonable-sounding claim repeated many times in other comments. But in actuality, "dress" is a culturally-determined norm. Would we be ok if someone was turned away for not wearing a turban at a traditional middle-eastern restaurant? Or if you *were* wearing shoes at a conservative Japanese establishment?
The fact is that requiring specific clothes is – beyond hygiene – more of a cultural-exclusion measure. It's ethnocentric and wrong, to not serve someone who does not share your cultural values. In countries which celebrate their unique culture that's acceptable, but in America we support cultural diversity by law.
Dress-up can be fun, and restaurants should state if they please "Dress Suggestions", but not a Dress Code. Getting turned away from clubs and restaurants because I'm not wearing your shoes or your jacket is insulting and offensive, and you should not support it. The fact is that anyone who doesn't meet the dress code will not "fit in" at these places, and that's everyone's loss, but it's a greater loss when we exclude each other for such trivialities.
"The fact is that requiring specific clothes is – beyond hygiene – more of a cultural-exclusion measure."
Yes, and if one wishes to celebrate the values and traditions of his own culture by upholding them in his own restaurant, that should be applauded. Multiculturalists have been saying that America should be a "salad bowl" not a "melting pot" for decades now–meaning we should expect pockets of differing and unique values and traditions to persist, not to be melted down into colorless PC goo. You should celebrate dress codes for their contributions to diversity and to the preservation of unique cultural traits at risk of disappearing.
"It's ethnocentric and wrong, to not serve someone who does not share your cultural values."
No, it is selfish and arrogant for a guest in someone else's establishment to disrespect the host's cultural values by not expecting to abide by clearly posted guidelines. If I go into a Japanese restaurant which asks me to take off my shoes, I will do so. If a Middle Eastern restaurant requires traditional dress and I'm not wearing it, I would expect to be turned away. If I go into a restaurant which requires a collared shirt or a jacket and I don't have one on, I will expect to be turned away. To expect anything else would be as arrogant and selfish as if I were to go into an Indian or a vegetarian restaurant and expect them to serve me beef.
"In countries which celebrate their unique culture that's acceptable, but in America we support cultural diversity by law."
We certainly do not. I can discriminate against any cultural norms I dislike and the law in America has nothing to say about this protected act of First Amendment freedom–if I want to turn people with baggy pants or collarless shirts away from my restaurant, I am free to do so. If you want to turn me away from your restaurant for wearing a shirt and tie you are free to do so. And yes, I as a descendant of WASP culture do have my own culture and traditions and proud ethnic heritage and I have every right to celebrate them as much as if I were a Latino or Black American. Shame on you for your discriminatory ethnic and cultural hatemongering.
Considering that turbans are a religiously-mandated piece of clothing for Sikh Indians and /not/ for Muslim men, you would be much more likely to have that issue while Not in a Middle Eastern restaurant. However, Sikhs are also unlikely to require someone else to wear turbans. Still,.. barring that bit, you make a good point.
I have enjoyed dress codes on occasion, because it adds to the regality of a special night out. But it's especially important to old people who need to replace the playing field in terms of appearance to feel more comfortable, shifting from their decaying bodies' beauty to how expensive their clothes are.
Regular bitter, always-excluded because of his personality guy.
I disagree but who cares just one less jerk off that doesn't over charge me for food. I have gone to a few places of high dinning that want you to fallow a dress code. I have had them refund my money a few times too. Just because they have a dress code doesn't mean there food is good. 60$ for 6 grilled shrimp and a few veggies. When you can go to sizzler and get the same shrimp and a steak for $25 if not less. The places just give people a reason to act fancy and say the next day oh ya I went and ate here.
Bottom Line________
If you want to go to an expensive restaurant dressed like a vacation beach-goer, find one that suits your needs. If you want an expensive restaurant with other people who enjoy being "dressed to the nines", find it and be a patron. If you don't care, eat anywhere that suits and that will allow you, dressed however, through their doors.
Businesses tailor to customers/clientèle. Find the one that fits your desires and have a blast (or maybe just enjoy yourself).
Bottom Line __________
If a restaurant wants my business or any of my friends or any of my coworkers, they better treat me with respect. If I pay, I get a say.
A restaurant has the right to set and enforce a dress code policy. Simple as that. It's not discrimination. The restauranteurs build up their businesses as they see fit in locations that will hopefully bring them the most income. If they're smart, they'll know who their clients will be and what they'll expect. If you put up a new restaurant in the Theater District in Manhattan, you have to decide if your clientele will be the dress-up type when they go to the theater or tired tourists who will be going home after dinner. If it's the former, you want to ensure you have a dress code to keep your clientele as comfortable as possible. But if you get more of the latter types of customers, you have to adjust your business strategy....and most likely your dress code.
There is a restaurant in Newport, RI, that actually has TWO "sides" to it. One is the "tavern" side where you can dress up just about any way you want. And then there's the "Admirals" room where men MUST wear a jacket and tie. So this business has very smartly adjusted to the situation and just about everyone is happy. AND it's still in business after many decades.
So, if you don't like to dress up, don't expect ALL restaurants to accept you in your torn jeans and tie-dyed t-shirts. Do your research BEFORE you make reservations (you DID make reservations, didn't you?? Hmmm?). Call the restaurant or look them up on their web page. You'll be better off.
We will never be a civilized society until we stop judging people on appearance. It does not matter if you are black, white, etc...or if you are in an expensive suit. When I go to out to eat, which I do frequently, and occasionally in very expensive locations I dress comfortably and almost always more casually that everyone else in the establishment. My money is green just like yours, and I enjoy the comments and looks when I tip better than the pretentious ass in the suit.
So you would rather a world where people are based on their green money than their appearance? Dressing appropriately is a sign of respect for others; there are as many if not more places to dress casually so I suggest you go there to throw your money around and feel important. The others there may actually care.
I don't care how much green money you have if you can't manage to spend some on decent clothing to go out to dinner. Surely you can find comfortable clothes that meet the dress requirement. If you want to go out looking like a slob, please stay at home because the rest of us don't want to look at you and lose our appetites.
there is a place for everything. why am i a 30 yr old man who dresses better than the so called classy folks of our previous generation. i have gone to restaurants with people twice my age wearing blue jeans and t shirts. if i feel like wearing blue jeans ill go to applebees, dress shirt ill go to red lobster, shorts ill go to dennys or perkins and sweatpants should get me into hardees. it is not about class warfare or class plagarism. i dont make much but i dont blow my money on stupid sh*t like liquor, cigarettes, and excessive material needs. your lack of class and lazy attitude towards your own budget is not an excuse.
Loved the signs in so establishments in Germany back in the 08s and 90s "Pets welcome, children if behaved" (Obviously in German – Hunde sind willkommen, Kinder, wenn verhielt)
Sorry, the sign was actually "Dogs welcome..."
Sadly, not many people know how to dress properly today. At an annual work event for inner-city high school kids, a human resources officer would discuss proper work attire. It was always hysterical. My favorite quote was, "I wouldn't hire Albert Einstein if he wore baggy pants."
And, quite frankly, whose loss would that be? Celarly not Dr Einstein who would find employment elsewhere. Heck, if they didn't lkike baggy pants, they would also probably object to his hair as well.
And that's the point, everyone can lose when we make the choice of judging a book bits cover, and the occassional Einstein can be passed over. good hiring managers know this and make allowances. But applicants should also realize, rightly or wrongly, that they are going to be judged on appearance and adjust their grooming/dress appropriately–going to an interview at Apple in a suit and tie is probably as inapproriate as showing up at IBM in a sports coat and banded collar (no tie).
I haven't 500+ comments, so maybe someone else has already said this: America has become a nation of slobs. It seems that since the 60's (of which I am a product), we have taken the "freedom" thing to mean we can dress as slovenly as we like in every place we might want to. I attended a church service once at which a man came dressed in a wife-beater, torn cut offs, and no shoes. I nearly fainted. Some would say, "At least he was at church, who cares what he wore?" Please, people...have some respect for those around you if not yourself.
If you would simply mind your own business and realize that that persons' dress has absolutely no impact on your life you would be much happier.
yep, and especially at a church. Is a church a fashion show, or somewhere to go to worship? Don't worry about other people; worry about yourself.
One other "code," is needed at high-end restaurants: NO CHILDREN UNDER THE AGE OF 5, and IF YOUR CHILDREN DISTURB OTHERS YOU WILL BE ASKED TO LEAVE.
Actually, my favorite restaurant in manhattan has a "no children under 12 in the dining room policy". I have a toddler, and frankly, wholeheatedly agree. If you're paying a lot for a very special dinner, you do not want to have a nuclear war going on at the next table.
I agree completely with the "no children under __ years old" rule. While most people I know, including myself, have raised their children properly, I NEVER fail to encounter a young siblings who decide to run around the dining area. Most times, the parents of these children do absolutely nothing. I understand that kids need to be entertained, but parents should not take their children to restaurants and other public venues (besides parks) until they know how to maintain their composure when appropriate.
I am paying for a nice dinner, not a reservation to a toddler game of tag.
I worked in a hi end restaurant and couldnt believe how many people on mothers day would show up in flip flops, shorts, baseball hats, even the girls w/ stretch pants & scrunchys. Unbelievable, one day a year you cant hose you and your kids down and put some clean decent clothes on for a few hours? Not gonna kill you to class up for 2 hours. I wondered why they didnt stay home & cook hotdogs.
I find it amusing when people dress themselves up in their little costumes. They put so much effort into putting on a show, always seeking attention and approval from others. This applies to those who dress in suits and ties as equally as it does to goth kids. I find it a bit pathetic really.
So what do you wear? What doesn't constitute as a costume?
You clearly don't understand my posts. I won't dumb them down for you so you're on your own.
Some of us have been taught that being well dressed is akin to having good manners. A show of respect to those around us. A way to say, I think enough of the company I am in to put some effort into how I present myself.
But by all means, keep ridiculing everyone better dressed than yourself. It's just about the only way for a guy in sweatpants on his couch to feel superior, I guess.
The worst of the lot are the ones who think their silly little costumes make them superior when they play dress up.
@Whatever – I hope for your sake that you are not an adult. If you are, you are doomed to be a failure in life. The point of dressing up isn't to give off an air of superiority. The point is to dress appropriately for your environment and company. This is the same reason you don't wear pajamas to work. Sure, they may be more comfortable, but they are not considered appropriate for your setting.
Research dramaturgy. It may be helpful to you.
Obviously, for many people it is, as shown by the posts on this page. I'm a failure at life because I don't believe in tying my self-worth to the clothes I wear? Get real.
"Whatever" is a troll who sits in his mother's basement eating Cheetos all day playing World of Warcraft and d!ddling himself. Please don't feed the trolls.
How's the air way up there on your pedestal?
I find it funny that there are people like you that judge others based on how they dress. Maybe you should try having a life of your own, I bet then you wouldn't feel that need to reflect your own need for attention onto others.
My husband and I stayed at Galley Bay in Antigua for our honeymoon. The resort's website clearly stated that after 7;30 there was a strict dress code. In the restaurants, shoes are worn and bathing suites are covered. After 6:30 p.m., men wear shirts withcollars and short or long sleeves (no T-shirts or tank tops) and long pants or stylish jeans (no shorts, Capri or 3/4 pants); and women wear dresses, skirts, long pants or stylish jeans, culottes or in the Summer tailored Bermuda-length shorts (no "short shorts" or cutoffs). Despite the defined dress code, there were several nights when men would show up in shorts, flip flops and t-shirts. Thankfully the staff did tactfully request that they go change, but that did not stop mena dn women from showing up each evening bucking the dress code.
Yes, it was warm for my husband to wear dress slacks in 85 degree weather, but he looked great and I appreciate the added level of class the dress code brought to our nights out.
My 5 year old knows how to properly dress himself for dinner. He insists on wearing a collared shirt and tie and occasionally a suit jacket. Now granted he also often wears these with some form of cargo pants but he is only 5. I think most of the whiners who complain about having to dress appropriately for dinner can take a lesson from my 5 year old. Of course, there is always Applebee's.
Wow! Pretty impressive. Meaning you...with your 5 yr old...and therefore your own child raising skills. I believe the article was about eating out and factoring into society. Not how formal someone's home should be.
Whipped at 5. Great job!
I'll see your I'll see your five year old in a coat and tie and raise you a three-year-old in formal attire: Tiara, tutu, shoes with sequins and a scepter.
You're missing the entire point of the story. You cannot compare children's make-believe costumes with grown men who live in sneakers and t-shirts.
I dress up for National Biscuit Day.
Oooo, when is that? Can I bring apple butter?
Apple butter? Thanks for mentioning that. I haven't had that stuff in years. It is pure awesomeness!
Unless a man is really in touch with his feminine side, he hates to dress up. The only reason he will do it is if his lady makes it clear he has to (you know what I mean).
So, ladies, you can make us dress up, but you can't make us like it!
I'm looking forward to seeing you kids in your first job interview after college, when you come shuffling in wearing your flip flops and your silly visors worn upside down on your head. Don't feel too bad when you don't get the job dressed like a hobo. The world needs ditch diggers, too.
You'll see me as soon as you apply to my company for a job.
While I respect your hatred for dressing up, you do not speak for all men in touch with their masculine side. My husband is very much a man in every sense of the word and he likes dressing up WAY more than I do.
As a man I've never minded dressing up, and often will over, rather than under, dress. but i don't think that every one else has to dress up just because I chose to, nor do I fell out of place when people around me aren't as dressed as I am. As a musician I have many times been the only person in a tux in a restaurant before or after a concert, and it never bothered me. Wear what you want, it won't make me enjoy the meal any more or less. Now if you sell bad, it will bother me even if you are in a white tie and tails.
Amen.
It's ever so much easier to go downhill than to go up. So many people are so very determined to be non-conformist, and not only in dress. Take these comments, for example:
Qwerty
You damn Skippy on that one!
timmy
eat in your underwares!lol!
Apparently, knowing how to talk and spell correctly is also proudly non-conformist. Qwerty and timmy should be proud that they are non-conformingly functionally illiterate.
Hoep yew dont git cawt inna rane storm. Yore knows is so terned upp, you'd drowneded.
I only wear a tie to interviews and weddings. I dress very nice and have nice, expensive clothes that stay clean and ironed, but if you are expecting a tie then you can go date a Blues Brother or one of the 3 stooges.
Some of you lowlifes act like wearing a nice pair of Dockers with a Polo shirt to a nice restaurant, along with shoes that don't look like they came straight out of the city garbage dump, is high fashion. LOL.
YAY! now if they could just apply the dress code to operas, ballets, and musicals. i'm so tired to seeing attendees in flip flops and shorts at 8pm on a saturday nite at the Music Hall.
Again, most musical theaters (at least on Broadway) have taken away any sense of elegance, forcing peple to line up in the streets in front of the theater rather than admitting them to the lobby like they used to years ago, serving them drinks in cheap plastic cups (rather than glassware like they used to years ago), and having tuxedo-clad ushers who escorted you to your seats rather than just grunting "5 rows down, 6th seat in). If there's no real elegance or special event feeling attached to attending a play(and those producing the play don't even try to make it seem different), why should we pretend like there is?
nothing worse than walking into a nice restaurant and having to see a bunch of apes dressed up like its still the 1800s.
Inaccurate. It is much worse walking into a restaurant and seeing a bunch of apes dressed like they need their dirty, ripped jeans, exposed boxers, and gauge earrings to show how non-conformist they are
Ironic isn't it that in order to display their non-conformity they must adhere to the code of the non-conformists and in doing so become just another band of uptight snobs (albeit, poorly dressed) who disdain others that don't conform to their views of non-conformity.
Here's a hint for all of you non-conformists; if you weren't first to do it you are simply conforming to a different code, but a code nonetheless.
There is nothing worse than paying for an expensive meal only to sit next to a character straight out of "People of Walmart". If I wanted the ambience of McDonalds, I would have eaten there.
Rectumus, there is one thing worse. Sitting next to a fashion snob more interested in judging other people than enjoying their dinner
Have we really gone so far down hill as a society that appearance matters more than character? I wonder why the author of this article didn't get into the history of this practice, and how it was originally used to separate the haves from having to be near the have-nots. Classism at play in our society.
Having the decency to dress appropriately IS a measure of character.
Kevin has it right!
Totally agree with Kevin and Bob... Not every restraunt is McDonalds you know!
So If I wear the same outfit to Mcdonalds will I be escorted to my table for me Big Mac ala Supersized?
How is a restaurant having a minimum level of dress snobbery? Is it the only place to eat in a hundred miles? In other words, if you choose to come to a restaurant that doesn't have a drive thru or a canoe on the ceiling and serves a finely crafted menu created by dedicated professionals you CHOSE to do this. It may just be Wednesday to you, but for the guy at the next table who is trying to create a memory with the woman he loves it's much more.
Bottom Line: If you are opposed to the rules of the establishment don't go. Let others who aren't enjoy their meal.
I agree with you. The only ones offended by restaurant dress codes are dirtbags. Let them gorge themselves at Carl's Jr., where they belong.
If you have to dress uncomfortablly to enjoy a meal, take your money elsewhere and have a better time!
you clowns supporting dress codes wouldn't be so smug if you were eating rats in the death camps where you belong.
my screen name is 3 times longer than yo-o-o-o-ors :P
I"d rather see a 'baby' code. now that restaurants no longer have no-smoking sections, they should have no-child sections so folks can eat the meal they paid good money for in peace instead of having to put up with other people's screaming brats! if your kids can't sit quietly and eat without disturbing folks at neighboring tables, LEAVE THEM HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! just because you can tolerate their carrying on, NOBODY ELSE THINKS IT'S CUTE!!!!!!!!!
I have kids and I couldn't agree more!
+1, if you can afford to dress up and go out to a nice dinner, you can afford another $20 for a sitter for the evening.
As I said before, my wife and I considered these evenings as training sessions for our children... We would NOT tolerate their "acting up" and disturbing other guests and we definitely would NOT entrust them to a sitter. The worst thing I can remember happening with them was my oldest son falling asleep in his mashed potatoes (he was 4) No fuss, he just fell asleep. We always received compliments on their behavior.
Llz, I agree with you to a point. I have children and while they're not perfect, they know what is expected from them when we are in public, whether it's a fancy dinner, ballet, symphony, church or fast food. Huh, these are actually the same expectations I have for them at home: be polite, respectful, show grace and courtesy and feel free to engage in the conversations. However, I know that not all parents expect anything of their child and so they receive nothing in return. People don't magically become productive citizens who know how to treat themselves and others with respect. It needs to be taught and that starts in the home with the parents. So please don't lump my kids in with a lot of brats because they aren't.
Amen to that! I just went through the same thing at a restaurant/bar the other night. Children LITERALLY running up and down benches, knocking down plants in the garden area, and another toddler screaming at the top of her lungs (whose parents had the approach of – "If you ignore her, she'll stop." which wasn't really working). I understand that it was a German bar... but WHY are you taking your young children to a rowdy bar? Yes, it was a "casual" place... but there was no PlayLand in site... and that doesn't imply your kids can or should turn the whole patio into one.
When I was a kid, my parents took me to fine dining establishments all the time (we're talking age 4). I threw a tantrum one time. I remember being picked up and carried out. My parents then hired the meanest most un-fun babysitter ever specifically on nights they went out to dinner. They let me know why I had the crappy babysitter on dinner nights... it was because of my crappy behavior. I learned my lesson and soon enjoyed lots of quiet, wonderful meals with my parents where I learned to eat tons of crazy, weird, fantastic food. And, I remember really enjoying the dress code!!! Teaching your kids that dressing up for some places is a special, fun activity helps them to appreciate its importance as an adult.
I'm taller than you! :-P
Get over yourselves, you freakin' snobs!
If people demonstrated a bit more concern for others instead of "doing their own thing", this wouldn't be an issue. If a restaurant establishes a dress code, then it stands to reason that most customers will observe it. Therefore, what does it say about someone who thinks they deserve a special exception, especially when other patrons chose to show consideration for their fellow diners? Like dogs learning to walk on a leash, selfish, arrogant, clods who have been coddled way too much need to be jerked up short once in a while.
You damn Skippy on that one!
And what does it say about a restaurant that makes those exceptions? It's their business and management can do what it wants, but IMHO if a restaurant has a dress code the least they can do is enforce it; if they don't, they why should I observe it (or of it's unevenly enforced, why should I go there)?
"If people demonstrated a bit more concern for others instead of "doing their own thing", this wouldn't be an issue."
Exactly.
eat in your underwares!lol!
"...But restaurants, at their very best, are a grand and invisible theater, and everyone in them plays a part. It's why we leave our homes to eat in the company of others, rather than just gnawing at hunks of cold pizza on the couch while watching Law & Order reruns (though that is a frequent and awesome option)." -Are you kidding me?? Your life must be reeeeally pedestrian, American & dreary. The best dine out in company I ever had was seafood paella and sangria, on a beach house porch overlooking the Caribbean at 2:00am, buck naked with my date in Curazao.
Now that is what I'm talkin' about! Good food, great beverage and "dessert" afterward!
Man, now that Oprah is gone I am so bored. What should I do?
I agree with a previous poster that during the 50's, people dressed as if they had a purpose in life. Men in chinos, a button down, wing tips, and a sport coat. Maybe even a fedora. Women in skirts and sweaters or a sensible shift. Can you imagine walking down a street and seeing people with pants that actually fit around their waist? Or not having to see anyone's undergarments? If that is Pleasantville mentality, I'll take it.
It is possible to be comfortable and well-dressed. This whole sports-jersey,flip-flop,rumpled clothing casual bit is an eyesore. Especially in a restaurant.
If you look good, you feel good...
"If you look good, you feel good.."
Balderdash. I've never felt comfortable in hose & heels, but I rooked mah-ve-lus.
Then Kaye Wyee, I suggest you shop around for a pair of heels that fit properly. You will know the correct fit when you feel it. I can (and have!) spend 16-18 hour days in mine. Pantyhose? Again, they should be snug but not constricting. Amazing how a little time spent on yourself pays off in terms of clothing that fits. Quite frankly, I see a good many women who would benefit from wearing a girdle.
The feeling of knowing your attire is well put together does wonders. Style is a mindset, and you cannot buy it. When I dine out at a certain price point, I would like to be surrounded by others with this mindset. It has nothing to do with socioeconomic factors.
Good manners and respect for others are free of cost.
*snap, snap* Pay attention. One last time, you said, "If you look good, you feel good..." I disagree with that statement – which is why I copied it into my comment to you. I didn't say they didn't fit, I said I didn't feel comfortable in them. Wearing stuff like that isn't who I am. Dressing up for special occasions is fine, but I'm glad I don't have to wear the FMP's women wear today. Now run along and play. Thaaaaat's a good girl.
@ Kaye Wyee...you don't appear to have any manners, even in cyberspace. Tisk, tisk. Take your comfortable sweats and flip flops or whatever getup makes you "who you are." Personally, I like being pretty and dressing up.
I imagine your biting wit and sarcastic tongue make you a lovely dinner companion. You sound like a femme hater–the type who never could get it right, and just gave up.
Darlin', you derailed yourself and took the low road. Congratulations on your inability to stay on topic. Now I understand that you are among the trolling populous. Don't let the door hit you on your way out and have a nice day.
Now let us also bring back smoking inside everywhere, and then slapping our wives!
I agree with "no shirt, no shoes, no service," but I find the requirement of a sports jacket to be a pain in the dining rooms of cruise ships, where a dress shirt/pants/shoes and tie should be enough to set the same tone take up much less space in the suitcase.
"no shirt, no shoes, no service," The fact that businesses have to post such signs is another indication of the decline of western civilization. USA=Greece.
When visiting a restaurant, I check to see how many obese females have either a) tattoos, or b) muffin tops over low rider jeans that fit her when she was 10 years younger and 50 pound lighter. If I can find at least 1, chances are that restaurant does not have a dress code.
Ladies, I don't know how many times it has to be said, tattoos are disgusting on women. Physically revolting and disgusting. What's funny is that you seem to think it's "edgy" when you wear a dress. It ruins the dress. In addition, servers with visible piercings other than their ear are also revolting. Why do I want somebody serving me with puncture wounds in their extremities?
Men, your beer belly and shirt that reek of cancerous cigarette smoke should also be abandoned. Americans look like rolled up hamster dung lately. Time to tighten it up, from the butt to the gut.
Do you think it is a coincidence that when our economy was humming in the 50's, people dressed like we had a purpose in life? When you walk into any store, to buy any product, and two cashiers are waiting to ring you up, which one do you choose. No need to answer, I'll do it for you. You choose the more competent, and visually appealing person. You do this because 9 times out of 10, the person who looks the part, can act the part. Sure, there are exceptions, I get that. However, it reflects poorly on the business, the country, and most importantly, yourself, when you have metal bolts shoved through your skin which trigger the gag reflex in other patrons.
Questions? Operators are standing by.
Respect? You could stand to practice showing a little respect yourself. While you make some valid points in you comments, they are overshadowed by your repeated insults.
The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Holy cr*p, you must be REALLY charming on a date; waiter, I'm done, pass me the poison dinner mints please.
Well said!!!
"If exercised in good faith – which it often is – the policy will relegate a Fortune 500 CEO in deck shoes and an open collar to the restaurant lounge"
In my experience, people who make millions a year, and known to leave good tips, will be seated in the main dining room even if they are dressed like Charlie Harper (Charlie Sheen).
I certainly think that it is not inappropriate to set up a reasonable minimum standard but certain things are silly. Ties for example. A nice tie probably costs more than the shirt, and is harder to clean as well. So eating with one on is just asking for a stained tie.... of course this ignores the fact that ties are simply the single most pointless piece of clothing ever invented.
I was a single mother. I scrimped and saved, and once or twice a year took my son out to different restaurants in different places. He was 5 when he was bundled into his first real suit and proper tie (not a clip on), and taken out for a proper sit down dinner in one of the best restaurants in town. He was 7 when he experienced his first 5 star restaurant in a tiny tuxedo. We spent the week learning about place settings. He ate everything from "Micky D's"to Caviar. He's 28 now, and can fit in at a BBQ or at the White House. Manners, knowing how to dress, understanding of current affairs... these things all count. No shorts and flip flops there... and shame on any parent who hasn't taught their child to be appropriate for any situation they may encounter in life!
Agree 100% and hope to God my daughter holds fast to the standards by which she was raised and not get the dreaded tattoo she's been coveting in order to fit in with her young peers.
That article was sexist, to say the least.
I went to a restaurant with a posted dress code (coat and tie for men). I complied. Seated at the table next to me was a family and their teenage boys were wearing basketball shorts and high tops. I demanded a discount.
why? because you were forced to dress like an adultand teenagers weren't?
Sadly, the "Slovenly Generation" requires this. Most boys grew up in a home with no adult male role model, thanks to mom. It is a small wonder they look like they slept under a bridge, or that they take umbrage at any attempt to groom them.
"thanks to mom"? you must be a real winner
It's always the woman's fault... because guys are never scumbags, you know...
how sad people still care about things like this
How sad was it that you felt strongly enough about your sadness to make an effort to leave a sad comment?
If you dress like a slob, the preconceived notion is that you ARE a slob that doesn't know any better. I live in Malibu, CA. College kids and movie stars all dress casually on a daily basis, so I know that there are millionaires running around in shorts driving a simple Prius. Can't judge people's wealth on looks alone.
Don't expect good service if you stick out like a sore thumb. I'm not saying it's right or even smart on the waiter's behalf, but by the time you complain to the manager or stiff the server, your evening is already off to a bad start.
Eat where you're comfortable. It's your money. If you don't like the dress code, go somewhere else.
I think dress codes are elitist, period. No graphic shirts, no open toed shoes (men or women), nothing over the knee, no baseball hats. Done.
But...that is a dress code....
Reading many of the replies already...
I think it's a myth that places with dress codes have better food and better service. Clearly customers often want to think this to justify the expense of the meal. I've eaten at really expensive places only to have better food at a diner or something the next day.
As for the dress code, I think it's crazy to require a jacket or tie, etc. It is elitist in that it is not accessible to everyone, it by very nature excludes people who cannot afford such clothes. That said, there is something to dressing for an occasion out of respect to the person/people you are with or out of respect for the occasion. Much like wearing a suit to an interview: it's not mandatory, but it shows respect.
I think dress codes should be limited to: t-shirts ok if plain and don't have anything offensive written on them, closed-toed shoes so I don't have to see people's feet while I eat (not that I'm looking at feet anyway), no baseball hats, something along those lines.
It's ambience. Plating a dish is important because we take everything in visually first. We're attracted to the feelings we get from places. So, the restauranteurs have spent a ton of money figuring out what kind of atmosphere it is to get people in the door repeatedly.
It goes both ways, too. Red Robin and Outback Steakhouse figured out that the mood they set is what works for their clientele.
"As for the dress code, I think it's crazy to require a jacket or tie, etc. It is elitist in that it is not accessible to everyone, it by very nature excludes people who cannot afford such clothes."
A jacket, tie and pair of oxfords can be had for next to nothing if you shop sales or second hand. If you can't afford a jacket, then you certainly can not afford the type of restaurant that would require such a dress code. Chances are, you'll be struggling to make it to ihop in that case.
I strongly suspect the" baseball hat and ripped jeans crowd" just don't know how to dress themselves. I've seen these kinds of creeps at funerals just as inappropriately dressed, in their ratty jeans, scuffed and unpolished shoes, and cheap "designer" knockoff T-shirts. An embarrassment to everyone in their families with an IQ over 48.
If one cant afford a suit jacket and a tie, HOW CAN THEY AFFORD A RESTAURANT THAT REQUIRES ONE... if you cant afford to purchase proper attire for a 5 star dinner, its cool, go eat at Friday's, Red Lobster, or hell Burger King because nine times out of ten, they are going to faint when they see the bill from an upscale dinner ($100+). I'm so confused how people are mad over needing to wear a suit jacket, but almost every facet of your lives have dresscodes... your work, school, religious settings, almost everywhere! Why is this so different from those places? As with all the places I previously mentioned, if you cant afford the dresscodes these places require, you find somewhere else to go (public school vs. private, corporate office vs serviceman, etc). So buy a tie, clean socks, a shirt with more than three buttons and a sport coat and move on with your lives or stop pretending that you can afford this lifestyle when you know you really cant!
Wow, that may be the most conceited, arrogant, aristocratic paragraph I've ever heard. Really, just come down off of your poser pedestal and be a human being instead of the dregs of humanity that you obviously are.
Just telling yourself whatever it takes to sleep at night, right?
I am jeans, or shorts and tee shirt guy, I will not eat anywhere that is not acceptable, and without giving details, I am quite comfortable economically, educated, and not full of myself either
Great! Then you just sit back and enjoy your AYCE Sonny's BBQ. They have real paper napkins for you, too.
Don't you just love how all of these comment-board "millionaires" with their fictional Ivy League educations and wealth refuse to wear a coat and tie to a restaurant that requires it - you know, like dressing well is somehow an an affront to their sensitive feelings? Sucks to be them.
Most of you people on here, are exactly what's wrong with America. A bunch of cry baby, elitist snobs. Next time i'm sitting in a fox hole, eating an MRE, i'll remember to tell my guys to put on something nice.
Don't you have certain "attire" you're supposed to wear in that foxhole?
his attire has demonstrable utility. camouflage obscures his location, his harness allows easy access to life saving equipment, his helmet might save his life.
your blazers, suits and ties also had their origins in warfare but european nobility bought into the craze and now for whatever absurd reason we still think imitating croation soliders from 500 years ago by wearing a bit of fabric around our neck is a good idea. it is all very silly. who you are matters, what you do matters, judging people by their appearance is the domain of racists, simpletons and elitists.
Ugly or plain looking people dressed up are still ugly and plain.
I got lucky during the dot com boom, comfort is key for me. Shorts t-shirt flip flops. The fact I can buy or sell most people I see in a restaurant who have the nerve to try and tell me to wear a tie is comical.
Lastly if you have time to look at other diners either the food sucks or you are a closet gay. What the heck would I care what wears I went there to eat and enjoy the wife's company not some tool in his Macy's $150 buck suit.
Obviously you are a pretneder.... but thats OK – Dress codes are for people that have a confidence defecit....
People that talk specifically about how much money they wish they had also have a similar problem.... Good luck with that mate... (See you an Amanyara.... not...)
Buying and selling people is not legal in America! Even minorities! Can you believe that?
I have a whole rant about it, but I have a Glamping trip to go on now. Another time.
$150 suit....joking right? $150 suit will not buy you crap. Try more like $1500 suit is about average
so far every one of you morons replying missed the point. wow.
No one's making you eat at nice restaurants with successful, well-dressed people. Go where you and your kind are comfortable. You know, Taco Bell, Car's Jr., Chuck E. Cheese. And for a really big night out, you can hit Chili's. You can sit around and tell each other lies about how wealthy you all are.
"Your kind"? That pretty much says it all.
It's driving me crazy, all the people who think it's "elitist" or "snobby" that a nice restaurant would ask for something as simple as asking people to look nice and respectable. Really? Wearing a tie and dress shoes is asking too much of them? To hell with those slobs, let them eat at Arby's where they belong!
@FL REZ; My wife and I considered these evenings out as "training sessions" for our children in order to teach them how to properly comport themselves in public. They both have matured into polite, productive members of society with families of their own. They have both taken their children to Bern's and other fine restaurants in Tampa, Atlanta, Montreal and Atlantis and NO ONE who knows them considers them snobs.
I would venture a guess that if they're able to afford to go to expensive restaurants in all of those cities, most of the people who know them are probably rather well off themselves, and therefore not necessarily the best judges of snobbery.
This is all pretty pathetic. IT would seem a lot of diners have some serous self esteem issues if they consider how people dress at other tables to be a substantial part of this experience. I invite people who feel that this is a serious enough issue to them to wish others to be denied service because they find what otherwise would be perfectly acceptable forms of dress in other settings to be offensive to them. Do they feel that they somehow are more important if they dine in a more formal setting? Are others interrupting their fantasies? I don't get any of this other than to say that this is a rather odd fetish indeed and one that people need to subject themselves to a little self examination, and perhaps they will realize how childish they are behaving.
Snobs: Anyone with more money than FL Rez
Mmmmm, Bern's. Wild Truffled Mushrooms & a filet you can cut with a fork. Ahhhh, thanks for the opening. We're taking my parents there next month and I am excited!
If a restaurant – or any other establishment – feels they have the right to tell you how to dress when you go in to give them business, then theyre far too interested in things they should not be paying attention to.
I wouldn't trust the quality of the food in any restaurant so invested in how their customers dress. I dont care if Michelin gives it 150 stars...I do not follow dress codes. Ever. They are the domain of the shallow and pretentious and I refuse to stoop to such ridiculously low levels.
If I dress up, it's because I want to (and that's extremely rare) – not because it's "appropriate" to some narrow-minded, judgmental meatsack. Who I am on the inside has nothing to do with what I wear or what I look like. And who I am on the inside is what matters. If that's too high-minded for the pinheads who think appearance is everything to grasp, well, that's not my problem – that's theirs. I'll take my business elsewhere. It would give me indigestion to eat in such an uptight, pretentious environment anyway.
Perilous, you confess to rarely dressing nicely, and you also seem to suffer from indigestion. Let me guess - you're an obese slob. Thank goodness you will never eat in such establishments, because you would be unwanted there anyway. Go to Denny's where people like you belong.
Actually, who you are, on the inside, is definitely indicated by how you deign to dress and behave. If you choose to dine at a five star restaurant and refuse to dress appropriately, then you are expressing your contempt for proper social mores.
Those around you who do not know you, can only judge you by your social choices and their opinion of you (whether you care about it or not) will not be favorable. These choices can be far reaching.
stop being such a primate and grow a human brain
@BeenThere – totally agree!
@Been there; here, here, my good man.
If I'm going to spend that kind of money, and I can well afford to, then I'm going to dress any way that I want to. Thankfully, I live in a part of the country where the dress code is pretty much EXCEPT suits and ties for men.
If you think it's pleasant to sit at a restaurant counter or table next to an unshaven guy with a tank top, belly hanging out, smelling to the high heavens, flip flops which allow his smelly feet to overwhelm the fragrance of your own food, and for his grossly 400 lb wife to be at his table wearing a bikini covered by her folds of fat and smelling like a fish bin rotted for a week, and their kid's unwashed hair has flies buzzing around it, you are welcome to frequent establishments that allow such customers to express their desire not to dress up. I walk out of those places. Go ahead and show how inconsiderate you can be of others and pay attention only to your own desires. You'll go far in life, just like the slob in the tank top and his lovely bride and child. I can see you are striving for that place in life.
Not necessarily true. I retired at a young age, AND I'm working on two Master's degrees simultaneously. When we eat out, which is often, I'll dress any way that I want to. In this economy, the restaurant owners should be glad that I'm willing to spend money in their establishments.
Do you have a job? There are very, very few jobs (if any) that do not have a type of dress code. Generally, the better the job, the more strict the dress code. But hell, my garbage man wears the same thing to work every week. Dress codes are everywhere. Get over it.
Yes, you're such a good little rebel! You don't dress up just because others expect you to, I'm sure your boss thinks that cool, and your sister will be so happy you dressed all comfy in jeans and flip flops at her wedding, etc. Like someone already pointed out, how you dress in social settings is a reflection of who you are on the inside. And I think you've adequately exposed your inner child to us.
Thank you for portraying an alternate version of "shallow and pretentious".
Thank you for writing this!! I went on a dinner cruise a few years ago, and their website said that they had a specific dress code and that it was enforced. I went out and got a nice dress and snazzy shoes and dolled myself up for a date with my boyfriend. When we got there, there was a bunch of tourists in line wearing jeans and shoes... I felt so embarrassed, as if I had over dressed even though I wore what was said was required. Everyone kept looking at us and it made me feel very uncomfortable. Apparently no one else got the memo and my boyfriend and I were the only dressy ones on the boat! Fortunately we got sat at the front of the boat in a private area so we had access to the outside but we missed all the entertainment that was taking place in the back of the ship. I guess it paid off since everyone that walked up to go outside saw this dressy couple sitting in the room alone and would turn right around and go back to the back of the boat. hahah :D
You should have complained to management about their faux pas and ask them for which night that their dress code applies that you would return then, a subtle barb. I certainly would not give my business to that establishment.
Anyone who calles themselves "Beefburger" must be a slob anyway, and would be an eyesore in a nice establishment anyway. Go to Arby's where losers like you belong.
@ Beef , I didn't really want to complain as it would of added more annoyances to the night, but it was just a bummer that we were expecting a nice evening and it wasn't what we were expecting since no one else adhered to the dress code. I'm not saying people ruined my night because they didn't dress up, but if you are paying for an evening you think will be fancy and everyone else just rocks up in whatever they feel like it does put a bit of a damper on the over all mood. I wasn't embarrassed about what anyone else was wearing, I was embarrassed about what I was wearing as I looked and felt overdressed and out of place.
Key West Guy
Unfortunately many will view your comments as "disin-genuous ".
Not sure If I'm the only one who feels this way. I didn't really read all the comments. Am I the only one that likes to get all dressed up nice (suit and tie and all). Take a nice lady who is also dressed really nice to a nice place where other people are also dressed nice for some good food? Sure the portions are a bit small but whatever. Have a bottle of wine. Romance it up a bit then when you get home go at each other like a bunch of animals? Not only do women like to dress nice. Some guys (like me) like to wear a tie and get all spiffy for the ladies. You look good and feel good. I like dress codes sometimes!!! Nice to see a group of people well dressed for a change.
How nice to read that a man wants to take the time to look nice. I live in a small rural area and my last date was for a casual evening dinner. My date showed up in flip-flops, torn cut off shorts and tshirt that was stained. He had not shaved and was wearing a ball cap. I on the other hand had spent some time on myself, shaved, makeup, good jeans, heeled boots, button down shirt with sweater. My 1st thought was why did I bother and my 2nd was no way was I wasting my time driving 45 minutes to Outback Steakhouse with this man. I cancelled the date and explained that if he did not care enough to look good, then I was not interested in getting to know any more about him. I could see 1st hand that he did not care about himself and probably not about anyone else.
Good job canceling your date. You sound like you have a concrete sense of self-worth. How refreshing.
Nobody is forcing anyone to go to where they don't like to go! So if YOU decide to go somewhere YOU are the one who gotta respect their dress code policy! Otherwise go somewhere else!
As an 18 year old college student, I'm all for it. Seriously, we're completely destroyed the idea of actually looking good for the sake of comfort. When did we stop taking pride in ourselves enough to present ourselves in a thought-out and damn good looking manner?
Damn right!! It was a shock to see the homeless in Paris, who were dressed better than I bet the complainers in this forum are in the average restaurant. Rarely unshaven or smelly, there are public showers and bathrooms, others spring for the cost of razors etc, because they are embarrassed to see shabby citizens. A German will never be caught with unpolished shoes, it is considered disrespectful to the progress they have made since "the war". Civility and respect are good things.
While I think this is true. I also like my secret spot that sports the no shoes no problem motto. It's by the beach... dress for the occasion.
Exactly my thoughts!!
@Time and Place – exactly – dress for the occassion – I love a good beach bar and I also love a good high end restaurant and each require a different level of dress or lack of dress!
@gremlinus True, I did assume the children were young, which might or might not be accurate.
I support dress codes. In fact, Morton's Steakhouse in Denver, I will not return. Any resturant where I can drop $300 on dinner for two should NOT allow jeans and flipflops. Seriously? What the hell? FLIPFLOPS?
I see this one in just the opposite way. I can afford to spend that kind of money. For that reason, I will dress however I want to. In this economy, the restaurant owners should be glad that I'm spending money in their establishments.
I think dress codes are an archaic bit of hooey, held over from when we had a formal class-based society. Of course now we have a society where merit is based on wallet size, which is not really better - at least the nobles of old were trained in etiquette and understood their role in society.
I do not think I would go to a restaurant with a formal dress code, but that's because I don't want to dress up. I'd rather eat in jeans and a t-shirt (clean, neat, but no tie or jacket!). Plus, I don't have enough money to actually afford a fancy restaurant, so it's kind of moot...
Edwin sounds like a loser, so he should go to Arby's where he belongs.
no, he doesn't. you sound like an actual loser. you shouldn't be eating at any restaurant. your last meal should be the taste of my boot as it kicks your snob teeth in.
I love Las Vegas. Not too many restaurants are pretentious. There are so many great places to eat and pretty much wear what you want. Nobody wears suits unless you are entertaining a client or potential client. Otherwise a guy can get away with anything. The ladies usually dress up but don't have to.A lot of women display their assets in a playful manner and that making dining even better.
Which is why Vegas has lost all of its sense of style. Long gone are the days of The Rat Pack and more the days of the Innebriated Brat Pack, Lindsay Lohan, Brittany Spears, and Snooki are now the norm. Overpaid millenials and drunken $luts, great....just great.
Yeah, because Vegas is now run by Jews, who will do anything for money. In the old days when the mob ran the town, people had to dress nice. I wish I had been old enough back then to go into clubs and dinner theaters.
@JB - you have zero idea of the old days. Yes, plenty of places with fancy dress codes. And even more dives with total slobs. You either weren't there and don't know what you are talking about, or you are senile and forgot what it was actually like. And your racist comments are totally inappropriate and out of the blue.
@Jerry I'm certainly not a "whiney socialist" and I don't have an "everyone-is-a-winner attitude." However, the very concept of snobbery is inextricably linked to conspicuous consumption choices. When wealthy individuals choose to consume products or services that are not available, due to financial barriers, to a majority of the population, and especially when they then go one step beyond that and presume to dictate the way in which other individuals should use those products or services, they are automatically engaging in acts of implicit snobbery.
y'all are a bunch of gender conforming, classist, xenophobic, mean girls.
So, you wouldn't want to be in a place that we-all would be? Richt?
Does the food not taste as good if a man at the table next to you isn't wearing a tie? If you like dressing up, then good for you. Enjoy youself. But I don't like to associate with pretentious snooty sorts that think they're better than someone else because of the way they dress.
Feel free to cavort to your heart's content with the screaming 5 year olds at The Sizzler, that seems to be your answer to a non-snooty good time.
Dressing well does not mean being snooty, just as casual doesn't mean if you are a 500 lb woman you can wear a bikini and not bathe for a year and walk into anyplace you want and be seated. And if you don't want to go to Sizzler, that's fine, but there is zero reason to make demeaning statements about those who prefer one restaurant or another, whether for cost or dress code or whatever.
We don't have a Sizzler any mower. That last trailer fire was too close to they're bilding. Can I go too Golden Corral instead?
And us rich pretentious types don't want to have dinner at Arby's with you poor slobs with no self esteem who smell and have obvious anger issues either. Oh wait, was that a ridiculous stereotype just like you made?
the death penalty, bullying and suicide, natural disasters, the economy. and this is what you people are concerned about? sociopaths...
Right, illegal immigration, abortion & high corporate taxes that stifle growth and this is what you're worrying about?
You seem to be concerned with it since you clicked the link, so maybe stfu, eh?
Back atchya
@Box Lunch, John & Conqui: it's a food blog. If you want murder and mayhem news, click on CNN's home page. Or better still, click on their Business link and take your b!tching over there because there's no news about sports. I.D.10 T errors abound.
Reading the rebuttals of people who complain about dressing nicely when walking into an elegant establishment....it's not about "keeping up with the Joneses" or what ever other nonsense I've read in these posts. It's about having pride in yourself to put some effort into your appearance. Restaurants are private businesses, if they want to have a dress code that's their call. So who cares if someone dressed like they just got out of bed would "leave a 35% tip"....for men, it's about having class and conducting yourself as a gentleman would. If you're so adamant about "Wearing whatever you want to" go dine at McDonald's. The rest of us are going to have fun getting dressed up and going for a night out on the town.
Thank you!! Going into a nice place for dinner, and being sat next to a table of people wearing velvet jumpsuits, kind of ruins the feel of the evening! In love the fact that places still have dress codes, like you said, private business!, I wish airlines would do that!!
I support nude dining.
Love it...we came into this world nude..we will dine and leave this world nude..
He!! Yeah! That'll teach you to eat hot foods slow and easy. Jury's still out on nekkid frying tho'. :D
Always keep your napkin on your lap!
This is funny. My husband is a very intelligent guy, he is not a professional cook, but he makes the best steaks for me. So, when he asks me about eating out, I say " why won't you just go to the grocery store and make a steak for me on the grill?" Come on, people, are we living to eat or are we eating to live?
Living to Eat! Always :-)
Marie, It's fine that you appreciate your husband's cooking, but why would you send him to the store to get food for you when he was actually telling you he didn't feel like cooking tonight?
I don't eat at restaurants with dress codes. I live in a major metropolitan area, there is plenty of fine dining establishments without bothering to patronize one that tries to dictate how I'm allowed enjoy my meal. It's my money, in a down economy it's their loss. I'm not paying for someone to look down on me because I don't choose to wear a tie.
Agree. You want your business to survive – you go with the flow.
OK, that is fair. But why MUST a baseball cap be worn at a table? This is a rule never to be broken by some. Also, Talking on a cell phone seems to be a must also. These are very strict rules that must be followed by some. Why? As for flip flops wash your feet at least on the same day you visit a restaurant.
I seriously want to smack the baseball caps off of anyone inside of any resturaunt. Where I was raised, baseball cap capital of the world, we were all taught to take our hats off from the days of elementary school lunch room.
@CharlesCT & Beefburger: Funny. Of all these comments, your comments about hats got to me. When I see men wearing hats indoors, I feel like they weren't brought up right and they're being disrespectul. Ties, tshirts, cut-off jeans, none of that bothered me, but the hat issue does. FTR, I've never supported the rule of etiquette that says women can leave their hats on. I understand where that comes from, but it's still a double standard and it's not right. end rant.
You do that then. Maybe they will have the NICE paper napkins for Saturday night? Welcome to The Sizzler.
Exactly!
I'm just going to say whats on a lot of women's minds: Why not? Its nice to get dressed up and go out to dinner sometimes. A special occasion often calls for a woman to get fancied up a bit and be taken out by her husband/ fiance/ boyfriend sometimes. (Or she take them out, depending on the situation.) Couples are not forced to go to a restaurant that requires a dress code. If a couple intentionally goes out for a nicer dinner than a simple bistro or cafe, they will probably get dressed up regardless, so why argue with a dress code?
If my date "tweezed various things" I wouldn't try too hard. But if I found out she "shaved various things" I would be puttin' on the ritz.
Trust me, tweezed doesn't leave that rough stubble, think "Brazillian", all I can say is "AMAZING!"
I am a young man and have worked in the service industry all of my adult life. I currently work in one of the oldest and finest restaurants in New Orleans. My coworkers and I work hard, long, late hours. We come to work neatly groomed in uniforms clean and pressed. We treat our guest courteously and we take pride in our jobs. Is it too much for us to ask that men and women coming to dine dress and act appropriately? I often dine out with friends and family, and despite not being affluent, I would be embarrassed to dine at a fine restaurant if not dressed appropriate.
So Dennis
While I understand your arguement, as on who was "in da biz" for over 20 years and has run fine-dining establishments, let me ask you a question. I come into your place. I am deemed "not appropriately dressed", but manage to talk my way in. You wait on me. I pay for dinner and leave you a 35% tip. So, now, how do I look to you?
Key West leads the nation in homicides per capita. Not something to be proud of.
You could never get passed our maitre d. And the fact that you could have left a 35% tip and never got to enjoy our fine establishment would be a disappointment by all. But trust me no tip amount is worth having our regulars and guest who did "play along" agitated by those who didn't. That is why you would never "talk your way in". Our standards and reputation are too valuable.
Mark Knopfler
ROFLMAO! Really? And your crime stats come from where? We have virtually NO crime here. Remember, 97.2367% of statistics are made up on the spot. And btw, how is that Dire Straits working out for you?
Dennis
A c-note speaks wonders. Been there, done that. Just sayin'.
Gosh, Dennis sounds.....well.... a little snobby. Sorry.
I'll spend the tip money to buy attire to my waitperson's liking.
Appropriately dressed according to whom? Some shallow business execs who lack any sort of real qualities so they try to make up for it with expensive clothing? I guess you can polish a turd.
Dress codes are for sheeple.
Most of those who can afford prefer not to be recognized.
to Dennis pn his Sept22nd comment: first of all, I did not go down to more comments after yours which were plenty I see afterwards;
second: you are so right – if a person decides to fine dine in a white cloth/reservation kind of fare he/she/all better read the fine line (we always do) about the dress code/small children(pets), etc.
There are about a dozen restaurants on the same block if the fine print insults you – please read it! and comply happily or go on to the next one that suits the needs.
That's all!!!
P.S. I know, reading fine print or other kind of particular advertisements are kind of out of site, especially when one is already enraged with behavior... Most of us try our best to be our best... most of us ARE the best as we CAN
That sort of "talking" is accomplished with a couple of C-notes, it still doesn't make you classy. "You can put lipstick on a pig....."
I just read the responses to the poll and saw that nearly 75% of the people here support restaurant dress codes. Well, you all have a nice life in Sheboygan, WI or Rochester, NY or whatever place you are living,. Me? I live in a place with hundreds of thousands (millions?) of tourists a year. A place that doesn't care how you are dressed, what you drive, what you do for a living, which part of town you live in, or where you kids go to college. Keeping up with the Joneses does not, by and large, exist here. We aren't in a hurry, we don't dress up, local women NEVER wear pantyhose and rarely wear much make-up (its too hot) and no one cares. If that lifestyle appeals to you, come visit. If you, stay at home and go visit the "Jonses". You can compare tuition tabs. My work here is done. Have a nice life. Hope you enjoy it up thyere in the United States. And.......are you really happy? I guess not. I wasn't. And I thought I had it all!
So you're saying that just because that is the culture where you're at, every other place in the world else should revolve around you and what you're used to, is that it?
If that is your local culture, fantastic. However, I think it is more than a little arrogant and disrespectful of you to go stompin' around someone else's town where it is NOT like that and get all uppity because they don't allow you to wear your flip flops in a restaurant in Downtown Manhattan.
The way it is where you live is no more correct than anywhere else. I am not a very formal person, but I can at least show respect for others in their place of business/residence by dressing according to their norms.
If you don't want to adhere to a dress code, the solution is simple: Don't go there. Trust me, they won't miss you.
Whatever! There are a lot of people who live in the Keys, frequently drive up to Miami and enjoy the finer things in life. Also, cut the BS about how you don't care about anything in life, you wouldn't choose to live there is that was the case!
/highly agree w/ ProChef. "The Home of Tacky" Key Westers are completely out of place in the upscale Miami scene. Just keep to your giant plastic lobster and 60's pink flamingo lawn ornaments there in Key West, ok?
Disney World has very low standards when it domes to fleecing the sheep in a make-believe environment. You can dine in a place that looks nice, but that still doesn't upgrade you from being anything more than just another tourist even when you live there.
Just come on down to a Texas steakhouse yall. All you need is a pair of wranglers and some boots! Besides there aint nothing like chicken fried steak!
And a bottle of Lipitor or two.
I hate to have to agree with ya but that was funny and all too true! Chicken fried steak is really good, but its really bad for ya. That's why we actually only eat out but once a month.
Either you maintain a "decent" society and enjoy the decency of it, or you allow it to break down into a chaotic 'anything goes' society and put up with that. I prefer the first option. You can either have slobbering farts at the table next to you, or you can have well mannered snobs next to you. I still prefer the decent society with the dress codes. But then again, I'm a conservative.
not really sure how that makes you a conservative? a jackbutt i can see but not conservative.
I miss those old well dressed folks that had segregated schools, wives that didn't talk back and kids that accepted molestation as part of life. Fine clothes always make fine people.
I think that what many people are missing here and what the article doesen't really speak well to, is by what reason you are eating where you are?
If you simply seeking to be fed an enjoyable meal, then by all means you should be allowed to dress however you choose. if you are seeking to have a culinary "experience" where being fed comes second to being entertained...then just like going to a show you may be asked to add to the environment of that show by dressing in a certain manner. I personally like to travel and experience more "street food" as opposed to "fine dining." I think that one place we a nation could better benefit is by learning what many other nations already know...that you can get a nutritious tasty meal better from street food than fast food. You want to eat well and dress how you like and not pay outragous prices for mostly obnovious food? Stick to the diners and local chow houses...you will eat better anyway! Want to let a chef take you on a taste journey where you have to eat the food his way in a suit and still pay a large bill? That is a "foodie" lifestyle that many can afford to enjoy. I personally don't like the company of place that needs a tie and a reservation, I like a place that feels like a dinner table where people will feed me with food they made themselves. Just me.
Funny how when you age it is so easy to understand that dressing in a decent manner shows respect for yourself and for others around you in a close setting as a restaurant. If I have to explain what decent means then you have more going up to do.
I work in video game development. My co-workers and I can pretty much define our own dress code (a comfortable artist is a productive artist), so nearly everyone dresses comfortably but not shabbily (undamaged jeans, nice-looking t-shirts or button-downs, healthy sneakers or boots that aren't falling to pieces, with the ladies often wearing even nicer ensembles) at the studio. We also wear shorts in the summer if the weather's good.
That said, I wouldn't dream of dining at a nice place in anything less than nice clothing - it's great working in casuals, but come on - dress to suit the environment/occasion. I actually enjoy the opportunity to dress up a bit with a date, family, or friends. It's reassuring to see that plenty of folks out there still believe in tradition over slobbiness.
Well said!!
I agree, very well said!
Fukn' A!
I live in Orlando and this is a HUGE problem – especially with tourists. Do you wear your Hawaiian shirt and velcro sandals to nice restaurants in your home town? Neither do we. In fact, we don't wear them at all and think you all look utterly ridiculous in your "vacation clothes".
Barney Stinson says it best "Suit up"!
Eat a dick.
I suppose it is an appropriate reply from "Dire Straits". Does he know about you using his name?
so what you think now, stupid?
As someone else said, a restaurant with a dress code is probably too expensive for my budget, but I have no objection whatsoever to the dress code. I like dressing up. I am often one of the best-dressed men around. I routinely wear dress slacks and shirts to work while others wear shorts and tee shirts.
The only suits I presently own are a bit out-of-date for most occasions (two are from the 1940's, and one is from the 1920's), and unfortunately they are 800 miles away with my soon-to-be-ex-wife, but I own and wear dress slacks, sport coats and enough ties that I could probably wear a different one each day for a month. I also own a tux and tails, and I gladly wear them on suitable occasions. I recently attended opening night at the opera (a major splurge!) and was a bit disappointed to find that, in a nearly sold-out 2900 seat theatre, I was one of only about a couple dozen men appropriately dressed.
Most guys care more about their families and kids rather than their looks. Sorry... But you probably will be a perfect catch for a retired high-profile lady without kids. Just hope she has interests beyond styling her aging hair and perfecting her old body.
@Marie,
You know not whereof you speak. Accusing me of not caring for my family because I like to dress well is not accurate.
The only reason I am 800 miles from my family is that, after being out of work for over a year and a half, I had to go where - anywhere - that I could get a job in my field to support my family. That my wife is my soon-to-be ex is her choice, not mine; I would gladly cut off my right arm if that would solve the problems between us. I talk to my kids almost every day, and I provide for them financially above and beyond what is required, to the point that one month I was almost evicted for not paying my rent so that my wife could pay hers.
As for the nice clothes, dressing up for an evening out was something we did as a family - not just a couple, though we did that, too. How many 15 year old boys out there own, and happily wear, a tux and tails (now, sadly, a couple of years outgrown)? Don't even get me started on how many fancy dresses my wife owns, and my daughter has her share, too.
Vain? Perhaps. But dressing well for the times we did things together was one of the things we did, uh, together, as a family.
When I go out for a dinner that costs $150/person, I go out in my nicest dress, with an hour spent on hair and makeup, to look classy and well-kempt. My boyfriend wears a suit, tie, and dress shoes. It never even occurs to us to go out in jeans and flip-flops. It's all about respect for the establishment. If they say "jackets only" a gentleman WEARS a jacket or when they are told "I'm sorry you're not welcome here" they aren't surprised. A restaurant is a private establishment, and they are welcome to make any rules they want.
Good for you Faith. You sound like you belong in whatever god-forsaken (and likely snow-bound) city in which you live. Please stay there. I bet you never leave the house in holey underwear either. After all, your Mom told you not to in case you ever get into an auto accident. I bet I'm right!!!! Btw, which of the hopeless cases for President are you going to vote for in the 2012 Republican Primary. My gawd. get over yourself.
sooo are you against private businesses making rules? or should all businesses be government controlled?
Hey Key...maybe you ought to take your slacker beach bum self back to Hooters and leave real women to real men who can act like men and not overaged boys.
Nope Not against private enterprise making business decisions about their establishments in the slightest. I have owned my own businesses for years and I feel like it is my right to make whatever decision I feel proper about my business. It is my money, and I have to live the consequenses. If one wants to say I have to wear a tie to eat in their restaurant, I will simply find a different restaurant. Seems pretty simple to me.
So........ let me ask you a question. I own a restaurant in your state (or if not in your state, in many other states). You are a smoker. If you come into my restaurant in your state and want to light a cigarette, are you allowed? In many states you are not. So, whats the difference?
Oh my...an opinionated, self-important douchebag ! How novel, you sir have impressed us all. Newsflash though – Faith is your better, and we'd all rather be at the restaurant with her. Adio.
Same to you, guy. She has a right to her opinion just like yourself.
Get off your soapbox.
Whoa, the only person who needs to get overthemselves KeyWest Guy. You are a total jerk and too stupid to recognize it. You clearly are so into thinking how cool you are I can see that you probably never get a date with whoever you might want to, or if you do it doesn't end the way youwant it to. You are the sad one here. Oh and by the way, as a person with self respect, dresses appropriately for the situation casual or not casual, I am a registered card carrying democrat! Democrats have pride too.
kpkpkp
Wow. You assume a lot. I probably can't get a date. I don't think my wife would understand. As far as the rest. I am not a card carrying anything. I am an independant. As far as being "stupid", my IQ is over genious level. How's yours? I just happen to live in a place where people don't judge. Is that all that wrong? Have you ever been in a place like that? I doubt it.
Maybe you should try it. Judging others basically exposes one's own short-comings.
A genius that can't spell?
Key West Guy, you sound pretty full of yourself. I won't wish a hurricane on you, "genious" IQ guy, but I hope an iguana pees in your pool.
Key West Guy, please do us all a favor and shut up! You sound like a total and complete moron. Some people enjoy the fine dining establishments and enjoy the getting ready process. This doesn't mean they belong to a particular class or where they live. Please, do us a favor and keep your low class, thong wearing (or not), flip-flop attire in the KEYS, hopefully it will be all swept away with one of the Hurricanes.
I'm a Democrat, pretty liberal by most, living in Santa Barbara where my boss shows up without shoes. Obviously, your comments are pretty rude. I think your taking this whole dress code thing a little personally. Your free to do as you please; don't go to a restaurant you don't want to. Here is a link to a website that makes some good points.
http://artofmanliness.com/2010/11/12/7-lessons-appearance-marine-corps/
I am from Florida so I know about what I speak. Key West is known as "The home of all things tacky" (no, not joking) and also tried to seceede from the United States. Do not blame Key West Guy for being the way he is, that is just what the inbreeding there does.
Do you dress up and put on pearls to clean the house?
Good comments, but they are lost on the lowlifes and dirtbags here who just "wanna be who they really are." Obviously, personal hygiene and being able to dress themselves properly is not a part of their makeup.
Here in Tucson we have a very strict dress code if a gentleman is wearing a tie, the hostess will pick up a pear of scissors and cut the tie off and have it tacked to the rafters. flip flops are also about 60 percent of the shoes worn by men and 75 percent of the women. It is called Tucson casual. Matter of fact I know of many men who will not live east of the Mississippi river since than they would need to wear a tie occasionally. The only ties out west are made of rope and are for what we call varmints.
LOL Love it Marcia. Here in Key West, anyone caught wearing a tie is immediately labeled as "counselor" or "defendant".
No they are not. I have friends living in KW and visit there regularly. i think you are clearly a very minor minority.
Hello from the East Coast!
While you are enjoying you mild weather we are worrying about our tomatoes because temperatures are reaching freezing point, plus, "stink bugs' (of which you are not aware of) are beginning looking for a winter home and trying to enter our houses.
Anyway, that is aside from the topic. Almost every summer we spend a couple of weeks in "Golf Villas" (I bet you know what I am talking about, especially if you are a resident of "Rancho Vistoso"). We love the place, and in the past we tried to eat out just to make it feel more like a vacation. I can't speak for my husband and my kids, but I found that elderly overdressed and overly entitled patrons behave worse than toddlers. I remember one case when an older (perfecltly dressed) gentlemen asked a Hispanic waiter "to burp him like a baby" because he was "so stuffed" and needed room for more food. Poor guy didn't know what to say, and neither did I (just to help him out of this situation).
So, here is the point. There are more "wannabees" out there than most of us think. Just because someone comes to a restaurant dressed like 007 does not mean he is (or she is). I always oppose "Abercrombie & Fitch"'s love for flip-flops simply because here, in the Northeast, you can't wear flip-flops with a heavy winter coat (comfortably) when you have a couple of inches of snow on the ground, just as I can't see a guy wearing a wool suit with a tie to a restaurant in the Southwest when there is 110 F outside. What is your point? That you can afford it? I can too, I just think it's stupid. Oh, by the way, our kids are very well-mannered (in public) and quieter than most senior sitizens residing in upscale communities of Tucson (but I sure love the city).
We lived in Tucson for 2 miserable years, people go everywhere in that town dressed like slobs! Pj's in Best Buy, at dinner, girls dressed like hookers and most the guys look like trash! Cutting someones tie, yea, try that and see what happens! Thank god for leaving that dump and coming back to the east coast where people have respect for themselves and you can go into a nice steak house and not see people who looked like they just crossed the desert from the slums of Mexico! Maybe we should give AZ back to them!
Feel free to do your thing down there in Tuscon, but if you want an amazing night on the town in Scottsdale (the choice living spot of many a celebrity, as well as being voted as "The Most Liveable City in Arizona") you are going to have to look the part.
I'm from Boston originally. When we moved out to the Pacific Northwest, I left my suits and ties behind. Here in North Idaho, only the Mormons wear such things. Also, Portland, OR doesn't have any sort of dress codes either.
Along with a dress code, could we ban piggy, ill-mannered, noisy little wombats, as well?
Awesome comment. I'm so sick of paying good money to share a fine dining establishment with whining kids and adults dressed like slobs.
Yes!!!! Why should my evening be disturbed by someone else's bratty crying screaming kids! I love places that ban kids after a certain time, i think it's great!
That's what The Sizzler and Golden Corral are for.
The restraunts have a right to demand customers dress properly and to their standards. If you don't like it, don't go!
Really? "The restraunts (sic) have a right to demand customers dress properly and to their standards. ????
The standard should be.....you go to a "restraunt", order your dinner and pay for it. Demand? Since when do we allow a business to demand anything from a customer except to pay for products and/or service given? How about the next time you go to Wal-Mart and they demand your hair be cut in a mullet and your belly hangs out over your shorts and below the bottom of your t-shirt? That seems to be the "standard" there. Would you be offended?
And btw, in my neck of the woods, its spelled "restaurant". "Restraunt" sounds like a lazy aunt.!
If you don't want to play be the club's rules then don't 'demand' to be let in.
its a private business they can do whatever they please and make any rules at their establishment that thye want
*they
Polo
I don't "demand" anything. That's why I chose to live here. No one cares. In the past month or so, I have gone to the best steak house in town here, spent over $300 for two for a meal and another where I spent well over a c-note and saw plenty of people in both places in shorts and flip-flops. Did I feel cheated? Not in the slightest. Why should I? Who am I to judge?
So, when you go to Wal-Mart, do you dash to your hairdresser and spend $5.95 demanding your hair be cut in a mullet before you go?
Sorry KWG, don't believe you have the skills or ability to have made enough money to do what you have said you do. Find a life!
My life is pretty good. Where do you live?
Funny how you rail on him for writing "restraunts" when it could very well be just a typo. In your other posts you type "independant" and "arguement." Hope those were just typos too.
Anyway, focusing on spelling to bolster your own argument is petty. But then again self-righteous people don't care.
A restaurant is a private business on private property with a resonable expectation of reserving the right to refuse service. Yeah, try your "demanding", you'll wind up like Ron White's "Tater Salad".
Hey KWG, why don't you stop bragging about where you live. You sound like you really think you're at the pinnacle of high society down there. I come from Bethesda, MD, where the average family makes over triple what an average Key West family makes. How's that for putting you in your place? Anyway, people here dress for the occasion. You can have a fine dining experience in a business casual atmosphere, or you can go to a diner. Take your pick. Nobody's putting a gun to your head and telling you that you have to go to a certain restaurant and dress the way they ask. Don't like a particular restaurant's dress code? Pick another restaurant or stay home and shut up.
And you sound like a real turd...guess making typing errors make a person less "right" than you. I don't shop at Walmart, so could care less what they do, Yes, a business can demand anything they want as long as it's not against the law and it's up to you to comply or not. Again Mr. Genius and arrogant all around poop..if you don't like it don't patronize!
Sounds classy there.
This whole arguement is ridiculous. Living in Key West, a small island with a large number of oustanding restaurants, and as one who was in the restaurant biz for many years, I feel like I am as qualified as most to speak re' this subject. The bottom line is quite simple. If you can afford the tab, who gives a crap how you are dressed. If you feel "cheated" or "uncomfortable", or "embarrassed" about how the people at the next table are dressed, isn't that really YOUR problem? Live and let live. If I want to walk into the nicest place here in flips, shorts and a t-shirt (which I can, btw), how in the world does that distract from YOUR dining experience. I take a shower daily and my hair is always neat. My fingernails are clean. My money spends exactly as yours does. Really people. Try to get the hell over yourselves. You aren't that important. And if you are, you really wouldn't care.
Come to Key West and see life in person how it should be lived. People think we are "weird" here. As I see it, it is the REST of the country that is weird. We have it correct! We don't care how you look. Oh, and you will eat really well when you come to visit. No matter how you are dressed!
agree
two words " PRIVATE BUSINESS "
Already answered this ridiculous argument in another post, but I will try again. So, if it's "private biz", which I totally agree with btw, why cant I lite up a smoke in a restaurant in the state of Florida because the government says I can't? Before you start in on me abouut health hazards and all of that, please understand the principles of "private business". I own the place. If I want to allow smoking, I should be allowed to. If you are worried about the health aspects of that, you have the right to not walk in the door. But the government says I can't do that. You can't have it both ways. Or maybe you think you can. Seems to be the way our country is heading.
So, if you owned a private business and you wanted to allow murder, or to sell children for sex, you should be allowed to do it? There is a monumental difference between "laws" and "dress codes". Let's maintain perspective, shall we?
Once again, I reiterate "Key West – The Home of Tacky". 'Nuff said.
BLAH BLAH BLAH. THE CLOTHES DON`T MAKE THE PEOPLE.PLENTY OF PEOPLE RIGHT NOW WEARING $ 5,000 SUITS THAT SHOULDN`T EVEN BE WALKING WITH HUMAN BEINGS!
Sooooo agreeee with you. Very hypocritical! Don't you all be so concerned about how people look but what they really are. You'll get a much better world this way.
Sorry, nothing personal... But am I paying for a meal or am I paying for others to look at me and admire my suit and tie and want to know who my designer shoes are? I never show up at a restaurant wearing flip flops and torn clothing. But at the same token, I do not get all "gussied" up to impress the folks at the table next to me. I can be just as respectable dressed according to the seasons. If it's summer time, then I will be in a polo, khaki shorts and closed toed sandals. If it's winter then I will be in khaki slacks, a polo and maybe deck shoes or tennis shoes. I am paying for the food and service, not a dress code.
they are a private business they have the right to do whatever they want with it. that includes having a dress code.
You won't be paying for jack if you don't obey the dress code. While we are at it, on top of the dress code we should be asking for more child-free evenings. You can have a wonderful date night in the presence of grown-ups for a change, or otherwise take the squabbling tots to McDonalds Playland.
It would be interesting to know the ages of people who post comments to this article. It would most likely reveal a generational difference in opinion. It would also be interesting to know the socio-economic situation of those who post as well. Fashion changes and someday in the future t-shirts and flip flops may be the new standard. Feelings associated with certain styles of dress, such as black for weddings or long pants and jackets for dinner, are purely social constructs. They can easily change with fashion. Someday society might require wearing bathing suits at funerals (although unlikely this case would happen).
I don't really care about dress codes. I think requiring them for health concerns is right. I'll still wear a tie if they require it, but I'll still think its all about fashion. I'm 23 years old and male.
If you are in Southern California, where I hail from that is one thing, BUT most people are not. Reserve your torn clothing for the beach, house cleaning and pool.
NO person paying a decent sum of money wants to be seen by you no matter what you pay.NO double standards. Americans, and yes I am one, need to grow up and dress like grown ups.
If you look a bum you are a bum, no matter what color your credit card is!
sorry DUDE, I am under 40...
Have the dencency to dress properly, or better yet, order in!
It is about looking and acting like an adult in an adult world. You want to wear flip-flops? Go to the beach or head to The Sizzler. Because even at Red Lobster or The Olive Garden you would be given "the raised eyebrow". It is a matter of laziness that men have fallen away from being a compliment to their ladies. The ladies WANT to go places and look nice, but with your sorry butt in khakis and Birkenstocks makes them want to cry about what has happened to real men.
Having pride in your appearance does not make you a snob, acting snobby makes you a snob. You can still be a snob and dressed like a bum, all you have to do is judge people who don't look or act like you, regardless of whether thats because someone has a tie on or flip flops on. I personally like mixing it up – you've only got one life here on Earth, might as well enjoy the best of both worlds.
If a private business has a dress code and you don't like it, it is pretty simple – don't spend your money there. However, if someone else wants to spend their money there and you can't stop complaining about how dress codes are for losers, you fail to realize you are what you hate.
"Perhaps something with a non-rubber sole"? Hell, no! I've a lovely scar on my right shin from the last ("last" as in "final", not "previous") time that I wore leather-soled shoes because I was "supposed to look nice". Concrete steps may seem rough, especially when they're flaying your skin, but to a leather sole they might as well be coated with K-Y Jelly®. And that event occurred in 1992. As for the ridiculous, superfluous, and utterly useless "necktie", I'd rather wear a hangman's noose. Coincidentally, I last wore a necktie in 1992.
What nonsense. You tripped and blame it on leather soles? Plenty of people wear leather soles all the time, walk on all sorts of surfaces, including ice, and manage not to fall down. For this you wear sneakers the rest of your days? For heaven's sake, there are plenty of dress shoes out there for both sexes with composition soles if you fear leather ones. Just an excuse to dress inappropriately.
Did you omit the all-important "scuffing" phase of breaking them in? Leather-soled shoes right out of the box are neck-breakers, sure, but once you've pre-scuffed them, you're golden.
You think the ladies don't have their share of "war stories" in trying to look like a million bucks for your whiny arse? I am sure they are throwing you the biggest pity party when compared to remastering how to walk in Italian stilletos. Make no mistake, dressing up nice is for the ladies, you egotistical, pompous a$$. If it were up to the male population it would be sociably acceptable to scratch your butt with the salad fork and do the "pull my finger" routine with the waitress.
...you go to to great restaurant for a special occasion... prepared to drop $500.00 or so on a great 'dining experience' and expensive wine. Wife looking great....me, the best I can look with sports coat, etc. Only to find that the couple sitting at the next table – the guy has on a tee shirt and flip-flops and his date/wife with sweats....looking like she just got out of bed. Completely destroys the entire evening. Hoping more and more high-end restaurants start enforcing (and I mean enforcing) descent dress codes. They don't have to go too far...just prohibit the low life's that were 'raised by wolves'.
Yep, been there – going to a great restaurant with beautiful ambiance and food, wonderful service – and the slobs sitting at the next table looking and smelling like they've been pitching hay all day. And since they're dressed casual (the very low end of casual, one step from derelict-garb) their behavior reflects their dress. I'm all for dress codes being enforced. If you want to dress like you're going to eat at McDonald's, head on over to the golden arches!
Drink enough wine and you won't care. Your dolled up wife couldn't keep your attention?
It's not even about people telling you what to wear. Are you telling me that you think it's okay for you to show up to a date looking like a slob? Especially if you are going to an expensive place? Dressing well is about self-respect and respect for the person you are going out with. It shows that you're putting forth the effort and that you take pride in your appearance. If my date told me we were going to a nice restaurant and showed up in jeans and a t-shirt after I spent an hour or more getting ready and trying to look nice because they were taking me some place special, yeah that date would not go well, if at all. If you show up looking like that, you're displaying the level of effort you think the relationship is worth.
This post kind of ticked me off because of it singling out men. The fact is, women have a lot more options as far as what's appropriate attire – a particularly big issue if it's boiling hot out. Open neck? No problem. Skip the stockings? No one will say a word in this day and age. And if it's chilly, want to wear slacks? Of course! It's the 21st century! Guys are still expected to wear a tie and jacket, always, all the time – phhbt, I'm not doing it when it's hot out. I'll skip restaurants with requirements like that because I think it's sexist and unreasonable. Women's attire got liberated, men's didn't. And I think that's one of the problems with this post – it fails to recognize that. Oh, that and the fact that women are BY FAR the bigger flip flop violators, so I feel like the author's observations are pretty selective.
Well actually there are a lot of summer suits that are quite cool. And jackets are usually optional at places that are "boiling hot." Most climate-controlled restaurants don't fit that bill. And women in generally are held to a higher standard of dress in most situations. If you think women's attire is liberating you should be glad you're a man. As a professor, my male colleagues show up in jeans and the most god-awful t-shirts. I get all kinds of sideways glances if I dare wear jeans. There is flexibility in men's clothing and unless you are at a truly formal event, you aren't stuck in a 3 piece suit. And if you are, they usually have the A/C blasting so you'll be just fine.
AMEN!
Dave, may I suggest you work an eight hour day wearing a body briefer, pantyhose and high heels – then get back to us about how the standards for women's clothing are so lax. And yes, most women who are held to a high standard of dress wear these things, all day, every day. Maybe you just hang out with slobby women.
You make some good points about the suit and tie although there are many varieties of fabric, texture, and weight to distinguish between summer, winter, spring, and fall attire. What about the double standards of going topless? Can't tell you how many man boobs I have to endure each summer. Men with breasts that could fill a B or C cup. Just because they have hair on their chest, it somehow makes it okay, socially acceptable for men to go topless just because they can. A woman has to put tape on her nipples or at least where a sports bra when in public places. All for the protection of women who may be sexually assaulted by men who cannot control their impulses. Authorities have very little concern that women or gay men are going to sexually assault a topless man in public.
Testing
Sorry! Dress code. I will not go.
Ties in todays world are out of place. The only decent thing you can do with a Tie is to use the Tie to check all the fluids in all of your machines. Ties are a joke. If you think a Tie makes someone a better person or a Professional please think again...
You clearly are below this conversation...have fun at TGI Fridays
Funny, I just went to a professional development seminar that underlined that a suit and tie are a must for most professional careers. And Brooks Brothers seems to be doing fine. If you don't want to wear one that's fine. But assuming it fits and looks neat, people do look more professional in a suit and tie. Period.
I work in menswear. News flash – why don't you just try going to a job interview without a suit and tie. Try working as a real professional anywhere without a suit and tie. You can't even get a management job in Walmart without a tie. So maybe a job checking fluids is your speed – at least you won't have a wear a tie!
Based on this and your other responses, it is abundantly clear that there is much about civilized life that totally escapes your understanding.
When I make dinner reservations to a place I have not been to before, I ask about the dress code and comply.
I agree, with one exception. iI I have to dress nicely to joy a great meal for a price – I don't want to hear screaming, out of control kids with their parents sitting their ignoring the fact that their children are disruptive to everyone in the restaurant.
That's what the tie is for...to hang your brat over a chair.
Why do people get upset about this sort of thing? In America, we generally believe in private property rights and free enterprise. If a restaurant wants a dress code, let them have one. It's not like the restaurant with the dress code is going to be the only decent place to eat.
Absolutely ridiculous. No way will I let someone tell me how to dress when I am footing the bill. If you are going out for a nice romantic dinner, then you shouldn't care about anyone but your date and yourself. People here are acting like appearance is part of manners. It's NOT. I didn't even own a tie till a couple years ago and I do not own a suit jacket. If I went to a nice restaurant, I would want to dress nice so I would feel more comfortable, but I sure as h3ll am not doing it for the stranger at another table. And if I was dressed in my non-existent suit and tie at a fancy restaurant, and someone came in wearing shorts and flipflops, it sure as h3ll wouldn't distract me from enjoying my time.
I feel sorry for your date. It might be particular to women, but I get tired of society basically demanding that women dress up at all times (check out men vs. women in TV shows and commercials sometime. Like that stupid McDonalds commercial with the two people talking at the same time) yet men seem to think that expecting them to wear slacks a decent shirt and *gasp* a tie is somehow a crime. Try wearing 3 inch heels, immaculate makeup, pinned up and sprayed hair, not to mention the seriously uncomfortable strapless bra that is a must if you are "well-endowed" and then we'll talk about how unreasonable a tie and a jacket is.
As the article says, dress codes tell you what kind of restaurant you are going to. If you don't want to play along, fine, don't go. However, those that do, expect to you to play by the rules.
Dress the part. If you want to eat steak in your pajamas, do it at home.
Mike, exactly!!
Nicely put.
I don't understand why, with all the freedom we have to dress comfortably and not conform to old-fashioned social rules like pantyhose for women, ties for men, that flip flops, t-shirts and shorts is considered the pinnacle of comfort. You can wear them practically anywhere these days from restaurants, to movie theaters, to airplanes. Can't we take some pride in our dress and step it up a notch?
MyOpinion, well said!
Several years ago, Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa relaxed their dress code "to accommodate tourists"... My family and I were there one evening when they showed in a couple (she in a tank top and shorts and he wearing shorts, a Hawaiian shirt and flip-flops) I felt cheated! We (my family and I) had dressed for the occasion; I and my sons in suits and my wife in a nice evening dress. All of the other guests were appropriately dressed, as well. We are NOT Snobs... In fact we are middle-middle class and just wanted a pleasant evening out in a five star restaurant and they allowed these SLOBS to ruin the ambiance and the total experience. I, for one ENJOY "dressing for dinner" and I have little patience for those who know the required dress for a particular establishment and chose to ignore/defy the rules.
If you don't agree with the dress code, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Sorry, but any family with children who wants "a pleasant evening out in a five-star restaurant" is a bit snobbish by default. Most families can't even consider paying for a luxury experience like that, especially not in the years since the recession began.
Does this mean that those who can and who want to and who desire to expose their children to this experience should not do so? Why?
@Chuck That isn't what I said at all. I simply pointed out that most families can't afford to dine at five-star restaurants right now. If people can afford it, it's their call, but they do automatically come off as a bit snobbish to everyone else.
Snob by default? Give me a break! What is snobbish about taking care of your apperance in public and looking for a nice experience?
They certainly don't come off as "snobbish" to me. There is nothing snobby about wanting something particular, even if that something particular is cheap beer, pizza, and Law and Order reruns. Judging someone about their consumption choice? That's something a whiney socialist with an everyone-is-a-winner attitude would say.
FL Rez, your perspective was a bit snobbish there!
FL Rez, your comment is a bit snobbish!
FL, it is NOT being "snobbish" if you want to dine in a 5-star restaurant. It's simple: dress up for it. If you don't want to, then fine, eat at Carl's Jr or Taco Bell.
You assumed the children were young. They could have been adults paying for themselves. It's not snobbish to expect someone to dress for dinner. I lived in Tampa for 10 years. As a resident it gets really old when people roll in wearing whatever they want to everywhere. And I mean whatever. I'm far from a stylish dresser, but it is seriously ridiculous sometimes. And you just can't get away from it.
Whenever we go on vacation I always pack at least 1 nice outfit "just in case". We may not be dressed in formal wear, but we're NOT wearing tank tops, jeans, shorts and flip-flops. Like I tell my kids, "there are times you dress up and times you don't and you NEED to know how to tell the difference."
@Kathy Yes, choosing to dine at a five-star restaurant with one's family is implicitly snobbish, since the vast majority of families in this country currently don't have enough money to make that dining "choice." By automatically choosing to be with other relatively wealthy individuals, whether consciously or not, you're segregating yourself from the general population, and in doing so, engaging in a textbook act of snobbery.
If you can cogently explain exactly how my comments are snobbish, be my guest.
@Pattysboi Dining at a five-star restaurant is implicitly snobbish because most American families currently don't have the economic means to do so. In this particular case, snobbery comes into play not simply as a matter of dressing up or not dressing up, but rather in relation to the background circumstances and expectations at the outset.
The children were12 and 9 years old and behaved impeccably (unlike the SLOBS who exhibited such boorish behavior)
We saved for weeks to enjoy that evening, and it was ruined by these unthinking idiots. As I said, that was some time ago... the "boys" are now 39 and 36.
@FL REZ; My wife and I considered these evenings out as "training sessions" for our children in order to teach them how to properly comport themselves in public. They both have matured into polite, productive members of society with families of their own. They have both taken their children to Bern's and other fine restaurants in Tampa, Atlanta, Montreal and Atlantis and NO ONE who knows them considers them snobs.
haha this story cracks me up, snobs can keep there overpriced nit that great of food restaurants. plastic sheep!
meant to say not that great of food.
"not that great of food"????????
Did you sleep through English, or is it too inconvenient for you to spend ten seconds more to express yourself in a somewhat more conventional, and, perish the thought, grammatically correct manner?
Wake up and realize that a substantial portion of the population, to whom you refer as "snobs," are actually normal people who care about their experience and who are trying to teach their children that there is life beyond the depths in which you obviously live.
It wasn't that long ago that restaurant nights were special occasions and people treated them as such. In "these economic times" as someone said it's getting to be that way for many people again. And when it becomes a special occasion the atmosphere is important. There are a lot of people in the last two or three generations that almost exclusively eat at restaurants once they leave home. So to them, it's just another night out. I think this causes a disconnect.
haha, I bet you walk around looking like you got a potato chip stuck up your rear end.
Depends on where and what restaurant there, Josh!
I like to be nekked when i go out to eat.
I wore a miniskirt to the Plaza once. The waiter kept lookin up it.
That was you?
Ties? No. Never. Not even on a special occasion. What's their purpose? To hide your buttons? Are you for real? Ties are the most OVERRATED garment a person can put on. I absolutely REFUSE to do so. They're restricting and uncomfortable to boot.
Now ... I don't mind wearing a nice shirt, shoes, etc to an establishment (dress casual) .... but the minute you start trying to tack on suits and ties, you've gone too far as a restaurant.
I never understood why people considered monkey suits nice.
In all seriousness, your shirt collar may be too tight. Too many salesmen advise customers to buy a shirt with a collar a half size too small. (I think it's intentional: the shirt will shrink ever so slightly over time as you wash it and then you will have to buy a new shirt sooner.) In any case, go up half a size on the shirt collar and the tie will be more comfortable.
To say, though, that a tie is a useless piece of clothing? That could be said about button-down shirts (less efficient than sweaters), shoes with laces (less efficient than loafers), watches (redundant to cell phones), and cuff links.
I guess you wont want to get a decent professional job then... or have someone look at you and think "wow... this guy knows what he's doing"
thats funny when i see someone in a suit i usually think con artist.
Hope you never have to go to a job interview.
I make a lot of money. I do not have to dress up to do so. Why do I need to do so to eat good food? Totally silly. If I can afford the food, let me eat there. I won't be loud or obnoxious, but I damn sure insist on being comfortable.
If I pay the same as you in a fancy restaurant and am there because it's a special evening, then I should expect some basic, common manners from my fellow diners, which may include not looking like frat boys. Being comfortable, agreed. Looking like a lazy bum is not.
Absolutely true – you don't have to dress up to eat good food. You can order it "to go" – call in your order, pay for it with your triple-ultra-platinum-and-diamond credit card, pick it up out back at the kitchen door, and take it home to your sty. The rest of us who are there have come, not just for the food, but for the ambience... and seeing you walking through the dining room with your dirty jeans and your belly hanging out from under your too-tight shirt doesn't exactly match up to our expectations.
We don't care about your money. Shame on you if your money can't make you fit in a distinguished environment.
A poorly dressed patron is obnoxious.
suits and ties are obnoxious and quite frankly extremely dorky.
"I make a lot of money. I do not have to dress up to do so. Why do I need to do so to eat good food?"
Why do you think there is any connection between the two? Appropriate dress for formal dining has nothing to do with either what you wear at work or your salary.
it really bothers me that people go out in public looking like they just rolled out of bed, no matter where they're going. does anyone have any pride anymore? say all you want about being comfortable and "this is me, take it or leave it" – appearance DOES matter! why do we chose one thing over another? sometimes for durability, but (i think) the majority of the time, we make the final decision because something is visually appealing to us.
I feel badly any time I see a couple dressed more nicely than I am for a dinner out. For many people a dinner out is a rare and special treat. Fortunately for me, I am able to eat out often. If I were seated next to a couple dressed nicely – even if it was at Red Lobster – I'd feel a little badly being seated next to them in shorts and a tee-shirt.
Now I crave one of those crazy-delicious cheesy biscuits from Red Lobster. Damnit.
Merv, if you feel bad about undressing, go to Mickey D's next time. If you're going to dine-out (read as not fast food) and you can afford to, why not at least have on a dress shirt, pants, and nice shoes. Tie and jacket is usually optional, but couldn't hurt. If I'm wearing jeans and deck shoes, I eat in the bar.
Personally, everything has gotten more casual. even at work my co-workers wear shorts. I'm not really crying for the demise of panyhose, heels and ties. Those items cost money, were uncomfortable and made no sense for people working in a call center who never meet customers.
but still jeans are comfortable? i wear a dress & pantyhose every day, and i find it unbelievable when someone in jeans questions how can i stand those hot pantyhose? really!?
Yes, jeans are much more comfortable than panty hose.
The heck jeans are more comfortable than pantyhose! Stiff denim, rivets, double sewn flat felled seams – they are NOT comfortable unless they're so loose they're practically falling off. They're hot, they're bulky, they cut into your waist. The only reason people claim jeans are comfortable is because they've become universally fashionable. Sheep mentality has a lot to do with what we consider comfortable – at one time, women claimed that being corseted was comfortable and supported their "weak" backs (made weak by their dependence on corsets).
Some restaurants need to get with the times and accept that ties and jackets are not always in fashion. You can still look dressed for the red carpet without a tie and black jacket. Customers are not employees, its ridiculous to expect them to all dress exactly the same.
Im fine with dress codes but they should be common sense enforced, someone with a good fashion sense can make a regular shirt look like a million bucks while the guy wearing the oversized black jacket hes had since the 1980's can look like a slob. Any restaurant that thinks that way isnt worth your money, there are better more progressive restaurants out there.
You're throwing the Hollywood trash on the red carpet into the mix? Get real.
Better yet, get over your obsession with celebrities and move (carefully) into the civilized world.
wow speaking of obsessed with celebrities
If people used common sense when going out we wouldn't need dress code.
Like I said to my daughter 100s of times (and she says to me now that she is in the work force) common sense is not all that common.
Mom? Did you change your name? You said that to me all the time!
I'll never forget my sister having an absolute canniption because my short hair was still wet from a shower as we left for a Zion National Park hotel restaurant. I actually had to blow it dry before she'd let us leave the hotel room. I cannot fathom who cared other than her? Or for that matter, why it was so important to her. It is still beyond comprehension.
Simple, some people don't want to go out in public with slobs.
Wet hair is slobby?? If I had greased it back flat like some fashionista, it would have been high culture.
I wouldn't say "slobby", but it suggests unkempt. Going out with wet hair is similar to going out with an unbuttoned blouse - appears the person didn't quite finish. But there's a difference between truly wet hair and hair that's just damp but not dripping. Damp is ok in a hotel or your own place, because it's likely to be mostly dry by the time you get outside.
A business has the right to set whatever rules they like regarding dress code. The customer has the right to spend their money at the businesses that make them fell welcome and comfortable. There is a common sense expectation that you should dress nicely at high-end restaurants, but that can vary by region. Living in Texas, it is completely acceptable to dress more casually at most establishments. I would rather see a dry man in an open collared shirt than a sweaty one in coat and tie. Again, just common sense...
"A business has the right to set whatever rules they like regarding dress code. The customer has the right to spend their money at the businesses that make them fell welcome and comfortable."
Agreed Rondell. I don't adhere to dress code, personally. I wear what I want. I always make sure that I am clean and neat – I couldn't care less about "fashionable". If a restaurant does not want to take my $230 per plate because I'm wearing jeans and a shirt, well then that's their right. I'll happily spend my money elsewhere. I'm getting so very irritated with today's attitude of "I get to tell you what to do". I'm not trying to tell the restaurant what they can serve or how much they can charge, etc. so why do they get to tell me what I can wear? But, hey, if that is what they choose to do so be it. It's their prerogative. It's their restaurant. But I certainly don't have to give them my money. There are tons of other restaurants out there that will gladly welcome me, my jeans, shirt, sneakers and $230 into their establishment. (Although I do find it slightly amusing that the same restaurants that stick their noses in the air about what you're wearing have absolutely no problem with people who have on too much cologne, show too much skin, have obnoxious or loud ringing cell phones, bring in crying babies, etc. etc. But don't wear a tie and you're – gasp! – hauled off to the "lounge". LoL)
But in the big picture everyone should just relax.... it's only dinner. :)
$230 per person for a meal? What a joke!
I agree, If you charge enough there will be people stupid enough to pay, it makes them feel important, meanwhile management is laughing behind there backs all the way to the bank.
"...restaurants, at their very best, are a grand and invisible theater, and everyone in them plays a part." LOL. It's nice that you admit the petty motivation for your opinion. In the end, its just a game of dress-up. When you go out to enjoy "the behavior and sartorial stylings of other diners", its just a game of fantasy escapism. Maybe you should grow up. Instead of soaking up the ambiance of a room full of pretentious douches, you could just worry about your own life. Why on earth do you care what total strangers are wearing? And why should they care about your silly outfit? I guess that in the end, its the opposite of what you said. It has nothing to do with egalitarianism. Its a fantasy to retreat into, devoid of fashion victims, red-necks, and poor people. As for that student you mentioned who spent his life savings on a date, maybe he should have used that money for some books, or to pay his parents back for the education they bought him.
You never tried to "impress" a date before, have you?
If you have to spend an large amount of money to impress a date how is that any different than getting a hooker?
If you mean deceive when you say "impress," then no.
Since when was Looney Toones "passive-aggressive"?
Since some people don't like the content of those cartoons.
We don't have too many places that have strict dress codes in Arizona. Obviously there are excellent dining establishments in Scottsdale, but when it is 115 khaki shorts become the standard. If you required a tie and jacket, your patrons would be fainting from heat stroke. Even professionals and politicians only wear ackets when they are going to be on TV and they quickly shed them afterwards. I think if a person is clean (smells fresh, clean hair, freshly shaven face, trimmed nails) a full shirt and shorts should be fine.
A full shirt and shorts? Like long sleeves and shorts? Now...that's just silly
AWWWW I so miss AZ.
I think the other point the author not-so-subtly hinted at is that if your female companion takes the time, expense and discomfort to dress to the nines for your viewing enjoyment, men should man up and reciprocate that effort out of courtesy for his companion. If both people dress comfortably, that's fine. When people are obviously unmatched in dressing effort, that's not acceptable and your better-dressed companion may be looking around for a better-dressed companion. No, it isn't about fashion. It's about mutual respect.
Precisely why that would be my last date with the moron.... Lack of respect for me and lack of respect for himself... Not a worthy prospect.....
LMAO! That's a great Golden Rule for going out with your significant other! If you both dress down, then you both should get shown the door – and vice versa of course. :) Thanks for the chuckle!
Hogwash. I'm in the Tampa Bay area. There are plenty of hi-end places where it is unacceptable for anyone to wear anything but suits, ties, heels, bras, etc.. I'm sure that new invention called air conditioning is available in Arizona, too. So don't shovel that stuff over here.
I personally long for the days when there was an understood dress code. It truly takes away from a special occasion to go to a nice retaurant all dressed up only to find the couple next to you dress in a tee shirt and flip flops (or even worse, wearing a hat indoors). If you want to look like a slob, go to Chili's; if I'm shelling out $125 plus, couldn't you at least put on a pair of long pants, collared shirt and docksiders?
Hats in restaurants is a pet peeve.
Hats (ie: cowboy or otherwise) when dancing with a woman is also very disrespectful, and I won't dance with a guy that's wearing one.... Manners have long since flown right out the window... Sad... but at least in places like Wyoming, Montana and Idaho there are still places that ask the GENTLEMEN to check their hats at the door!!!!!!
Right, Roland. But a nice restaurant is still a nice restaurant. That means you dress nicely for it. Are you saying that there's some subjectivity to what nice is? Yes, that's true, but its more of a sliding scale than full on subjectivity. I like to wear a tie to a nice restaurant, but I understand some people don't. There are still lots of options on the sliding scale. Khakis, collared shirts, etc. But nice is still nice, and t-shirts, shorts, and ball caps at the dinner table don't cut it.
Oh, SO true. I used to work at a private college, and I had a rule. NO hats in my office.It's a matter of simple respect. My boss didn't like that I had this rule, but guess what? The students did NOT respect her, but they did me. Gee, I wonder why?
agree with you on the hats. Do they wear them at their dining room table or at the kitchen table in their house? I want to ask the individual with a hat on in ANY resturant (not a fast-food eating establishment) is his head cold? Does he not have any respect for his wife or person sitting next to him?
"t truly takes away from a special occasion to go to a nice retaurant all dressed up only to find the couple next to you dress in a tee shirt and flip flops"
Not sure how this takes away from your special occasion. My special occasions are spent focused on the people who are with me that I'm sharing the occasion with. What the other person at the table down the row from me is wearing is completely off my radar. Don't care. Let them enjoy their special occasion their way and I'll enjoy mine my way. Now if the person at the other table is doing something to physically interrupt my special occasion then we will have a problem (i.e. – loud cell phone ring tones every 5 minutes, loud obnoxious conversations that prohibits you from hearing the person sitting at the same table with you, foul odors that don't allow you to eat your meal, etc. But shorts and a t-shirt???...who cares!)
Don't pretend like you don't understand what ambience is.
Ambiance is subjective. Don't pretend you don't know what subjective is.
My guess is that your mommy taught you from a very tender age that you are "special" and not to worry about the fact that the rest of the world thinks you are just uneducated in the area of (gasp) manners.
The article should have been titled "In support of a dress code for men"
When I am in a restaurant, I don't pay much attention to the other customers. I like to focus on my meal and my dining companion.
Amen, right on, and hallelujah Thomas! I'm shocked at how many people are so terribly concerned about what someone else is wearing. If you really can't enjoy your meal because I'm wearing shorts then it sounds like you have some issues that may go beyond simple dinner attire.
For 5-star or $$$$ restaurants I definitely support their dress code rules. What really grinds my gears, though, are those other restaurants who try to enforce a dress code that is above their means. If I'm paying less than $20 for my main course I do not think a strict dress code should be enforced. I'm sure its different in every city, but I live in Dallas and man there are some stuck up restaurants here. I can't wait to move back to Austin one day.
I agree. If a restaurant has a dress code, they better have a service code and a food quality code to go with it. It is a two way street.
Being in a public place like a restaurant isn't just about the food and service quality. It's also about being in a public place and showing respect for others. Once I've gotten my food, it's nice to know the restaurant won't allow some smelly slob with a too-small tank top, a fat wife wearing a bikini hidden by folds of fat, and a barefoot kid who hasn't bathed in years. That goes even if the food and service are really lousy.
I don't care to see someone's feet. bare chest, bare back, or bulging bare stomach in a restaurant, no matter how cheap the menu prices. When I walk into a restaurant and see some gigantic man or woman in clothes that expose a bare belly and folds of fat, I go elsewhere. Ditto for bare feet, including flip flops. Shoes keep the odors in. I actually wish some guys would keep their hats on, then the look and smell of their never-washed hair wouldn't cause me to get up and leave.
Sounds to me like you have a problem with fat people, not dress codes. If an attractive person was wearing these types of clothing you wouldn't mind. Also, what about high heels? You think women should refrain from wearing those because you can see their bare feet?
I am all about looking decent when you go out somewhere to eat. I don't want to even be in the dining room with someone with baby puke smeared on their shirt or smells like they bathed in urine. However, requiring someone to dress up in a jacket to have a meal seems snobby to me. I can't understand why I can't eat at a nice restaurant if I have the money to do so. If I am paying for a meal, I should be allowed to wear what I would like. Now I wouldn't be coming in looking like trailer trash, but I think a nice pair of jeans and a blouse should suffice. Why should I be uncomfortable? I hate dressing up! If you don't want me in your restaurant because I am not dressed up enough, then I will go spend my money elsewhere. It won't hurt your business at all, but it lowers your chance at getting more people in to spend money.
Valid point, but you can't post a sign that says, "no stinky slobs here, please." Something more polite like, "appropriate dress required" ends up being way too subjective (your cargo shorts are another man's dress pants). I think it all boils down to respect - for oneself and others. I used to work for a lawyer who would race in from a tennis match, sweaty and stinky in his shorts, for a closing. I always felt he did it just because he could (as in "I make so much money that I don't even have to dress up for work"). Dress and appearance should not be about money - they're about dignity and respect for yourself and others.
The very worst is that big, hairy guy in the Harley tank top, with his armpit hair cascading out. I can just SEE all the hairs shedding off this smelly, fat *uck and he's sitting in a high end restaurant in the dining room! I just got up and walked out before the server even made it to my table.
Wanting to look nice and appropriately attired for an evening does not equate with being a snob. Neither does wanting to look at other people who are dressed in a similar way.
There is nothing wrong with making an effort to look good, nor asking those who attend your establishment to dress accordingly.
If I host a dinner party, I expect people to make an effort to look nice. I didn't spend the day cooking, and the expense on the food and drinks, for people turning up in their gardening clothes. Likewise, if somebody is hosting me, looking good shows respect to them as hosts and brightens up the environment.
I look out at people dining in restaurants, or walking down the street, or even turning up to work, and I can't help but think "People just don't care anymore".
When you dress like a slob, you're showing the world that you're lazy, and that you respect neither yourself nor those around you as it takes the same amount of time to put on a nice pair of trousers and a shirt than it does jeans. It's even faster to put on a dress.
Note about ties: I'm a woman and I had to wear a tie every day for 5 years as part of a uniform (including eating in it). If it's tight or choking you, then it's not done up properly or the collar is the wrong size. You should be able to fit 2 fingers easily and comfortably between the collar/tie and your neck.
"Note about ties:... If it's tight or choking you, then ... the collar is the wrong size. You should be able to fit 2 fingers easily and comfortably between the collar/tie and your neck."
Exactly. If you're choking, it's your shirt, not your tie, that is the problem. And if you have to struggle to button your collar, then your shirt is the wrong size. Try shopping somewhere where the shirt sizes are a bit more granular than S, M, L, XL, XXL, XXXL, XXXXL, and XXXXXL
The country is full of rude, self-centered people who think having manners is snobbish, and go out of their way to do the opposite just to show they can do what they want and annoy others. I wish airlines also had dress and smell codes, too.
having "manners" is fine. It's insisting others conform to your own idea of what is appropriate/inappropriate that's snobbish (and reveals a serious lacking in "manners").
Exactly, BJG. I think that showing respect means being clean, neat, on time, polite and kind. It has nothing to do with a tie or pantyhose. I rather someone show up to my dinner party on time, neat, clean and be a wonderful person to be around then to have 5 spectacularly dressed snobs. Attitude should mean more than fabric.
Flips flops, tatoos and divorces: the visible signs of a decadent society.
Orgees, you forgot orgees!
Don't forget the teabaggers. They're right up there with nascar and roadkill.
They seem to know how to dress for dinner, though.
that is too funny!!!!
I would also hope that the dress code is clearly stated on their web sit at at the restaurant's reception area. Sometimes a night out is suppose to be extra special and women should wear nicer cloths and shoes too not just the men. I wouldn't insult a establishment by doing anything other than that. If you don't want to dress up – go to somewhere else.
Fully support dress codes...at the very least people should wear clothes! Dining at a casual place with my husband and daughter and while the place is casual and has an ice cream by the scoop area, kids came in just in their bathing suits and bare feet. And it's not like they were babies...the oldest was at least 12. I get that you can go in and order a quick ice cream cone but put a pair of shorts over the suits at the very least and a pair of flip flops. I was appalled...didn't want to see dirty feet and dripping hair after their swim lesson while I enjoyed a meal with my family. The place was under new management and had asked us to fill out a suggestion card...gladly. Dress code. At the very least shirts, pants and shoes! The manager read the card when we paid and he nodded at us...he wasn't pleased with their appearance either.....THEN HE SHOULD HAVE SPOKEN UP!
I agree KS! I see so many younger kids and tweens coming into restaurants, convience stores, everywhere in their bathing suits. Yet the parents of these kids want to raise cain when their child is approached by an older man who says something perverted to the child. I mean cmon? You think your kids are perfect but lead by example. Yes they are going to have a meltdown when you tell them that in order to get ice cream they must change clothes, towel dry their hair and at least put it in a bun or pony tail and wear some shoes. Guess what? You are now setting an example and showing the world that you have raised intelligent, respectful children who will someday benefit society.
Yes I agree the manager should have spoken up but lets cut him a little slack as he was new to the job and that may have been a gray area where he was wishing for a customer to fill out a suggestion card so he could amend the restaurant policy. You did the just the thing and kudos to you for making a stand!
You lost me there, what does a kid in a bathing suit have to do with a pervert (or perhpas a child molester)? I can't see any connection whatsoever.
If topless bars can have a dress code, why not restaurants?
I see a different problem with this. A few years back, while dining at Charlie Trotter's in chicago, I saw several women walk in dressed very casually. Their host was dressed in a jacket and tie, as I was dressed in a jacket. Why is it ok for women to be dressed down, but not men? That's pretty much what I see in most instances.
I don't have a problem with dress codes, but many restaurants DO NOT include dress code info on their websites or when making reservations. As long as it's not too disruptive, it shouldn't matter. Just have the courtesy to make sure the entire dining party is evenly dressed, so to speak. If you're going to let women in that are very casually garbed, do the same for men.
I agree Kevin and this type of post has come up before on here. As a woman I want the same standards and I dont believe it is right to not have that. Check out my post further on down where I elaborated at length about this and let me know what you think.
Your business- your choice. I don't have to eat there.
I have 2 schools of thought here. Why should I dress up like they think I should look. If I am in a jacket and tie, my waiter better be in a tux. Second from the restaraunt's view... It is their place and if you don't want to dress to their expectations then go eat at Friendly's.
Now, Pappadeux is not the nicest restaurant on the block but for Albucrackie, NM it is. I see guys there in wife beaters. I would refuse them service at the door if I was in charge.
What a sexist load of garbage. Written by a female. I ate at Per Se the other night in NYC; it runs about $400 per person. Men are required to wear jackets and ties. No dress requirements of any kind for women, of course. The loud, drunk females at the next table were in tank tops. I really don't want to see some woman's armpit while I'm eating. Hey "Kat", why don't you give equal opportunity advice to your female slob readers as well? Or are all women perfect in your sad lilttle world?
Lots of women agree!
That wasn't clear – lots of women agree with you. Women should not be wearing tank tops in a nice restaurant, although a nice sleeveless dress? Well...
yesssss!
My now fiance and I went to the Russian Tea Room for dinner before a show and we had the view of a woman with jeans and a t-shirt and a cross body purse and the guy had his baseball cap on backwards. It was disgusting.
Oooh....not a snob now, are we? Jeans...oh so awful. Could have been short shorts and a halter top and gang tattoos all over. Jeans...pheh...can't wait til they make dress pants look like jeans.
LOL
Oh so you were half of that couple. No wonder you are so sensitive. I get it!
Try going to a place like Fujiyama where they sit you at the same table with a bunch of strangers.. Okay the girl they set me by reeked of marijuana and wore low rider jeans with her thong sticking out, a skin tight tshirt that she cut the neck on to make it plunging and then it hit about an inch abover he belly button. I havent even begun on the body piercings she constantly played with including but not limited to the enormous tongue ring. She also had greasy hair in dreads and dirty, I mean dirty, unkempt fingernails.. Her boyfriend on the other hand was channeling Marilyn Manson meets Orange County Choppers and we will leave him at that! Yet here I was sitting next to them trying to eat and the smell, their manners, their clothes, all came together in this nightmare that made me leave the table before the appetizer was finished! Disgusting!
I'm sure there were other people sitting at the table thinking, "At least the smelly hippies are friendly unlike the other person who just has that scowl on her face and acts like a total B."
she sounds hot. i bet you are fat.
I wasnt let into a Karaoke bar in NYC becasue i was wearing shorts. Luckily I had a pair of jeans with me. Changed next door at the pizza place and was let in. Didnt see the big deal once i got in there however. It was dirty, sitcky and smelly. Come to think of it, I am really glad they made me put on pants
Why would you go into a stinky smelly place at all??
Thoroughly agree with you.
With having no one to emulate the young people are just as bad.
I don't wear dress shoes, period. They hurt my feet. I hate ties and if forced, will drag out the 3 Stooges one I have, or the fish tie, or cheese tie. Make me wear a jacket, will ya...I will show up looking like Herb Tarleck or Les Nessman. A black-tie dinner invite or banquet is one thing, but if I am paying for the meal, I will wear what I want. I have actually been to a restaurant where they will cut off your tie if you wear one...now THAT I will agree with.
You sound like a real charmer.
There is a difference between not caring what other people think of you, and being disrespectful to other people. It sounds like you're going with the latter.
Why the antipathy toward dressing like an adult? And by the way, if dress shoes hurt your feet, you are buying the wrong shoes.
Well Grumpy, it's a good thing you aren't female. Almost all clothing Western culture forces on us is uncomfortable in so many ways. We wear it because if we don't, we're being "frumpy" and there will be social consequences. Good thing you don't have to style your hair or check your makeup either for men whose only valuation of women is physical appearance. Well Frumpy, methinks you are a hypocrite.
hahahaha hysterical!!! Right on, Grumpster. If I ever saw you in a restaurant you'd make my day. Being respectful to others is about being neat, clean and polite, not about what friggin tie you're wearing or if you have on a jacket.
Grumpster and roland are a-okay in my book!
I grew up in a time and in a place where eating out was quite the treat, whether it be to KBobs or to the local Mexican eatery. I watched my grandmother put on her makeup, her best (church) clothes, as did my grandfather. Her smile and laughter added fancy to anything. She did her best to bring me (and my siblings) up to have the same regard, though it isn't always held to (especially when you're headed to the local Applebee's and just getting off work). As a tourist I've been to fancier places and have felt out of place when eating there. No wonder. I let my attitude get as sloppy as I have been dressed at times. Here's to more than a shower, clean clothes and whatever shoes are nearby.
he tuk off his shirt in buger king!lol!
"... they have the right to wear what they like...." You never have the right to do whatever you want in public, especially if it infringes on the comfort level or offends those around you. Let the slob in and see how many customers are lost. It's a simple business decision.
"You never have the right to do whatever you want in public, especially if it infringes on the comfort level or offends those around you." Exactly. And this is something your mother should have taught you, something you shouldn't even have to think about anymore because it should be second nature for you.
I'm sorry, you certainly have the right to offend those around you. The restaurant certainly has the right to prevent you from that possibility based on a stated set of rules.
"The couple decamped to a nearby Morton's steakhouse."
Well, Morton's just drop a few notches on my "Classy" scale.
Agree 100%
die in a fire you idiot.
I wouldn't mind wearing better clothes than I normally do at work, but since store's refuse, yes, refuse, to carry clothes for those of us who don't look like hippos, it's essentially impossible to find something decent to wear.
This isn't to say I would run out and blow my next paycheck on a buying spree, but if there were a store which carried clothes in my size, they would get my business in a heartbeat.
As to restaurant rules, they are private businesses open to the public. You can either abide by their rules or not, though the gentleman above who had part of his tattoo showing and was told to cover up while a woman was not shows the haphazard ways rules can be enforced.
If you're going to have rules, enforce them equally. Don't make excuses for why one person can do something but another can not.
"I wouldn't mind wearing better clothes than I normally do at work, but since store's refuse, yes, refuse, to carry clothes for those of us who don't look like hippos, it's essentially impossible to find something decent to wear."
There is this thing called, "The Internet." Maybe you've heard of it? The world is your oyster... all delivered to your door.
Ya can't try on clothes from the nets before you buy them. Measurements listed aren't always accurate. A size 3x at one place is another store's 2x ... and vice versa. And not everybody has the cash to tie up in buying multiple sizes of the same thing to see what fits. Don't be a d!ck Chuck.
I'm confused...you say you can't find clothes that are made for anyone who DOESN'T look like a hippo? Are you seriously a skinny person who has the audacity to flat out lie about all nice clothes coming in only sizes 00-8? Or was that perhaps a typo?
I'm with you, MJKP. How skinny is this person that she can't find clothes in stores? Or is she heavy, and she's saying the clothes out there for bigger women are all so unflattering that they make a person look like a hippo? In any event, there's always a way to find clothes that fit!
I have never read such rubbish my my life!
First time I have heard that shops dont stock small sizes. Since you have a mouth as big as a hippos perhaps you should gain some weight and look like one!
I have never heard of such either and I am actually a small size woman with an hourglass figure. Most stores carry something in your size, of nice quality. If it doesnt fit exactly and is worth the money then take it to a tailor to have it fitted. Watch the show "What Not To Wear" and that is exactly what Stacy and Clinton preach all day long to women who have bigger clothes issues than unable to find something that fits.
@el flaco clearly you have bigger issues than not liking a coat or tie; but ...it makes men look foolish??? really? i love to see my blue collar worker husband in a suit, which he does own more than one. when appropriate it is a neccessary item in a male closet, i for one would not even venture out the door with a man who cannot dress up once in a while, just as men tire of seeing us in sweats or dressed down we women do too but we are obsessed aren't we.......
Any restaurant that expects me to wear a jacket and tie is probably out of my price range anyway.
Probably.
It's a double standard.... there's no difference between a nice dress and open toed shoes compared to shorts and flip-flops... calves and toes are on display in either case
It's a double standard if you are gay. If you think girls are pretty and you like to look at their skin, it seems perfectly in accord with hetero norms.
Quite the opposite, gays and metros (is there a difference) tend to be your most fashion conscience... Clean and kept seems like a good place to draw the line in the sand
Well, I knew I shouldn't have gone there, anyway. Now we've got to deal with the stereotype of gays and metros being better dressed and more fashion-conscious.... Pretentious, we allow women to show their skin, but not men. We have all kinds of double standards - if you want to call that a double standard instead of "vive la difference", then go ahead.
It's actually a funny standard, considering it's difficult to find flattering women's clothing that is dressy AND warm and yet women are the ones most likely to be freezing and men overly hot. And men have to wear dress shirts and jackets. I'm not disagreeing that a restaurant can have a dress code if they want, I just find the standard of clothing backwards. Additionally, if the man is supposed to wear a jacket for dining, when I'm freezing is it not ok for him to give me his jacket then? Cause that's pretty much the sole reason that my bf brings his jacket, for in case I get cold, even with my own jacket on too.
Wastrel, any guy coming in attired in a nice dress and open-toed pumps would easily pass code and be seated whilst his flip-flop and shorts-clad female companion would be seated in the lounge. We both know it isn't about skin at all and rather about being "nicely attired".
Apologies for not being clearer. My "loads of crap" statement was in response to your statement "women are just better than men at changing the rules"
Great article, although it's amazing that the things we learned in grade school can be the basis of a good article for adults....
I don't mind the dress codes, it's the pretentious prices that they charge. $25 for a sandwhich, really? I didn't realize that by making a turkey sandwich with au jus and heating it up added $15 to the value.
Then maybe you should go to Arby's.
I had gone to a restaurant at lunchtime with a friend from work. There were no signs on the door about "dress code". I had jeans and a t shirt , but my tattoo on my arm was slighlty showing. We were seated and looking around the room while talking. Ordered our drinks and not more than 5 minutes passed and someone came and asked me to put a jacket over my shirt as their "dress code" did not allow tattoos to be visible. I was stunned, after seeing a woman with a tattoo on her lower arm and short sleeved blouse. I pointed this out to the server and was told it was ok, that it was actually impossible to make them put on a jacket. I asked the manager where the sign stating no tshirts or tattoos were allowed and she stated they had taken the sign down to wash the window, could not produce it to show me......at any rate, being that it was NOT a highend restaurant, we left and I have never gone back nor will I ever. As my mother always told us growing up, as long as you are clean and not looking like you came out of a laundry basket , there is always someone that looks worse.
"Always someone that looks worse" is a pretty low standard.
Actually have to agree with you on that one but I guess every one has to have their standards. haha
As Arlo Guthrie would say, "Think of the LAST guy."
Maybe it wasn't the principle of a tattoo that was the problem. Maybe it was YOUR tattoo. Was yours a Swastika? A gang sign? Huge breasts? I could see those as being offensive.
I think if a restaurant has a dress code, it should be followed. If someone doesn't like it, they don't have to go to that establishment. If any restaurant required me to wear hose, I would choose not to go, and if I did go, I would not be surpised to be turned away at the door.
My husband and I do tend to differ in what we choose to wear on the weekend. He is a lawyer and wears suits all week so on the weekend he tends to wear jeans and a t-shirt. I work in a very casual office environment where jeans, t-shirts, and flip flops are the norm and tend to dress up on the weekend, unless we are doing something more active such as hiking. It doesn't bother me one bit that he wears jeans while I wear a dress and heals. However, if we were to go to a classier restaurant, my husband does try to match my level of dress. More often than not, we are much happier in a more casual restaurant, where the prices aren't as ridiculous, there is no dress code, and the people are less judging.
It's all supply and demand people. If there are enough like minded individuals who want to dress up to eat, then there will be restaurants with dress codes.
In the past two weeks I wore a coat and tie to a restaurant, funeral, church service and wedding. The other six guys I saw wearing similar clothing were all over 55 yrs old, like me. I suspect it's a generational thing. I'm sorry to see more formal attire becoming a thing of the past, but then I don't wear a fedora like my father did, either.
Love men in suits! They don't have to be expensive either. They just look amazing! YUMMY!
Dress code...Please.
Typical unrefined Americans needing themselves to be told how to dress. Most Americans have no taste and no manners. So typical.
At least Americans bathe once in a while! I'm so sick of Europeans vacationing in the US who stink up the joint because they think Americans are pigs. Sniff yourself and the world around you!
Most Americans ARE PIGS!! TAKE A GOOD LOOK AROUND
Do you live here? If so, please go back to where you came from and stop putting down our beautiful country.
...says the person leaving a disrespectful, rude comment. Maybe you ought to learn some manners yourself?
I'm French!!! Why do you think I have this OUTRRRRRAGEOUS accent you silly king!?!?!?!?
I fart in your general direction.
Oh Thank God, finally, someone with some sense!!!
I went out for a special occasion dinner at an expensive restaurant not long ago. It was a big event, and I took time to get dressed nicely, as did my date. Most everyone in the restaurant did also. The restaurant itself looked gorgeous. But at the table right in front of me, some goofball showed up in shorts, tennis shoes and a baseball cap, looking like he just finished mowing the lawn. It sticks in my head because it was just so obnoxious and disrespectful of the other diners.
That's what it comes down to...respect for others. Clothing isn't just all about the wearer. Appropriate dress shows respect for an occasion and for others. That's why we don't wear T-shirts and flip flops to weddings and funerals.
If someone isn't aware of that concept, sadly I guess it falls to restaurant managers to remind them.
Agree completely. My husband and I recently went to a very high-end restaurant for a special event, and while even the barely-20-somethings had the decency to dress up nicely while wearing silly paper hats for the birthday party, two older couples at another table couldn't be bothered out of their jeans and ratty t-shirts. No respect to the establishment, and no respect to the other people eating there.
Unfortunately, Sydney, I have seen shorts, t-shirts and flip flops at funerals. I'm over 50 and find that very offensive and disrespectful.
THANK YOU SYDNEY, and thank you again!!! You are absolutely right. My husband and I frequent many nice restaurants as well as very, VERY casual ones. You simply dress appropriately for the one you will be attending. The rules are that simple. I see it constantly, and it sickens me.....shorts, flip flops, and baseball hats. What's worse is parents that allow their teens to dress this way in nice restaurants. If Americans insist on this sad representation of themselves, perhaps we should just direct them to the trough with all the hay around it.
On another note, my fiancee and I dress nicely -anytme- we step foot out of the house.. Unless it's 2 am & we're heading to WalMart for late night munchies in the dead of winter.
It's not a sign of insecurity for me to dress well & put on makeup. I take pride in looking good & even being in shape. Moreso cuz i'm a "single mom" & the thought being the frumpy mom who runs around in crocs, socks, baggy sweats & t-shirts is kind of appalling to me..
Whether it's Olive Garden, Mortin's, or somewhere nicer, I will be "dressed". So will my fiancee.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I go to a restaurant to have a meal (lunch, dinner, whatever) with family or friends. I don't go to a restaurant to see what everyone else is wearing and getting my nose into other people's business. I don't believe in injecting myself into other people's business, just like I don't believe other people have the right (moral or legal) to inject themselves into my business. Everyone's business is their own. What anyone wears out is their own business. Now, if someone violates obscenity statutes, then that's a whole other matter should be dealt with by law enforcement. But it's really nobody's business what the hell I wear, including the author. And for the record, I do dress up going out. But it's not your place to state what I can and can't wear.
Mark,
I don't think they were talking about Friday night happy hour at the Olive Garden. It's up to the owner of the establishment to decide who they wants to let in. It's up to you to decide if you want to eat there or not. This is not about obscenity statues. You don't have to wear a neck tie to eat in my presence, but you'd better not be wearing flip flops or you'll be eating alone.
Vacuous snob alert! Case & point. You're attempts to insult me are falling flat. Kinda like you were with your girlfriend last nite.
HAHAHA....I see you're giving the word "vacuous" a real work out today, eh? I guess you must've just learned it yesterday. The funny thing is that the only one on here posting anything mindless is you. I guess you're still sore about me leaving you at a table for two @ LeCirque. And I also see you're still single 10 years later. What does that tell you girl-dog? If you can't figure out why you're still single, you're probably the problem. You angry lonely pathetic old maid.
Will you two knock it off or I'm coming back there and separate the two of you!
Vanessa,
You pathetic excuse for a single woman. I don't have a girlfriend. I'm a married man w/ children. Not all of us are still trolling the singles scene in our 40's like you.
Keep missing targets with aim like that and your wife is going to sue you for extreme dissatisfaction in the bedroom. Did you finally confess to her that the flat tire last night wasn't really on your car but on your side of the bed?
Vanessa....I'll bet you're 4 feet tall w/ a hunched back and a big mole on your nose. You are the definition of troll....Sad, pathetic, single, angry, and dumb to boot. Your existence serves no purpose. You are what you wish on others....VACUOUS....
"You are what you wish on others...." It's almost as if you expect me to reply, "I know you are but what am I?"
That explains your flacc!d, sophomoric comments. You can't be more than 10 years old. Aww *pats him on the head* it'll get bigger as you grow older. Don't worry little one.
OK, you two kids go kiss and make up and play in someone else's thread.
you bet it is your 'right' to wear what you want, but as a paying customer it is my 'right' to expect a certain level of dress an decorum in the restaurant I choose. I don't want to looks at slobs while I enjoy an elegant dinner. It is part of the experience, part of the enjoyment, part of the respect for others. Europeans aren't challenged when it comes to dressing for the occasion. And yes, thank you very much, I am headed there as we speak.
There is no Constitutional right to dine at a restaurant. A restaurant can offer or decline to serve anyone at its discretion. It's true that you have the right to wear whatever you want as long as you don't violate any laws; it's also true that a restaurant has the right to decline to serve you based on what you're wearing.
You are 100% correct. It's also the establishment's right to refuse you service. With regard to how customers dress, it IS their business to conduct anyway they like.
I dress like a GQ model most of the time. I've always been a neat dresser from my younger single days working and having a night life in NYC. These days I'm a more domesticated family guy in the CT suburbs, but I still like to maintain a neat appearance when I'm not out hiking, mountain biking, or fly fishing. I do it mostly because of the office dress code, but also because it makes my wife proud that her husband doesn't look like a slob like most of the other dads in town. I do not wear ties or jackets to dinner. I'll wear a tie to a job interview, a boardroom meeting, a wedding, or any other special occasion, but I don't eat w/ a tie around my neck. It's uncomfortable and stuffy. If you feel you need to enforce some overly riduclous dress code to keep dirtbags out of your establishment, you have to remember that you're also excluding a good portion of people who are not slobs, but are somewhere in the middle and completely acceptable in appearance to be seen in a semi-formal/formal setting. I think that requiring people to wear long dress pants, a neatly tucked shirt or sweater, and dress shoes is a more reasonable request for any establishment that wants to maintain some sort of respectable atmosphere and appearance. The stuffy old school "country club" look w/ the jacket and tie should be reserved for just that, the country club. If my attire doesn't suit the picture you're trying to paint in your establishment, I'll gladly take my business elsewhere and recommend the same to everyone I know. You can be exlcusive to the person who goes out once a year without repercussion, but people who dine out regularly and maintain an active social life can really hurt your business if you alienate them.
If a tie is uncomfortable to wear, I would suggest that your collars are too small. They shouldn't feel physically uncomfortable to wear. Go up 1/2 an inch on your collar size and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks for the fashion pointer CW. I think I'm all set. I don't eat wearing a tie period.
Then how about just eating your tie you vacuous snob.
@Vanessa You sound like the snob. It's his right to not want to wear a tie. As he stated he doesn't go to those type of places. He doesn't get them service and they don't want his. Not a big problem. Geezzzz
Meant give not get. LOL ooppps
Patrick's got a loooong history of serious hi-falutin' snobbery. I couldn't begin to match his arrogance, nor would I try to, but thanks for the vote.
LOL! Vanessaa comes out swinging!!
Hey Vanessa, I don't know what history you're referring to. This is my first ever time posting on here. Stop being such a spiteful girl-dog and maybe someday a decent man will court you. I'll bet you're that girl I met on the train 10 years ago that was I was supposed to meet at LeCirque. I'm sorry I never showed up, but you seemed like a crazy kook. I guess my assumption wasn't too far off. Anger will only keep you single sista. Break the cycle.
Patrick, you sound ABSOLUTELY FABULOUS!! what ever you do, don't listen to those other pathetic losers!! Continue to dress the way you like and maintain your lifestyle and your good marriage. I couldn't agree more with your comments about places alienating those of us who prefer to "dress", while accomodating those who have just "washed their cars".
The problem is that there are no restaurants with dress codes. I'm all for relaxing at a casual restaurant, but there is just nowhere to go where people dress up. Can't we at least have a couple of restaurants per major metropolitan area where people still look nice?
Its not just restaurants. The theater, symphony, church & synagogue, etc. Nobody will bother to dress up for anything anymore. Whatever happened to wearing the coat and tie as part of the experience? Whatever happened to the fun of looking nice?
What happened? Establishments got greedy and realized that money spends the same no matter who's wearing what. However, there are places out there that still have various forms of dress codes. Lots of restaurants on the beach don't want people coming in wearing just bathing suits (possible wet butts on cloth seats) or yo be barefooted (for insurance purposes). When my husband & I go to a new place and don't know the dress code, we make a simple phone call and ask.
I completely agree about the church, synagogue, and theater comment. I cannot, for the life of me, understand why people going to a religious service don't think they should look a little nicer than jeans and sneakers. I have NEVER worn anything but a dress or skirt/blouse with dress shoes to church. I don't understand that one.
And maybe I'm somehow old fashioned while only 27 years old, but there is something about the theater that makes me want to look nice. At least some nice slacks if not a skirt or dress. Comfortable nice clothes do in fact exist, so I don't understand why so many people insist on living in only jeans and graphic tees.
My husband and I were walking in down town Chicago trying to find a middle of the line price range restraunt.. and were guaging the price level based on how nice people were dressed in line. Our logic was that the higher priced the place, the nicer the people would be dressed.. So we thought we found one that would be middle of the line... Turns out we payed over 100.00 a plate! Mind you the food was mind blowing but we were baffled why people were wearing Jeans and Hawaiin shirts to sucha nice place.
Same can be said for an orchestra or symphony. Granted, I only paid twenty bucks for tickets to see the Nashville Symphony Orchestra @ the Schermerhorn (they were specially priced "student" tickets), but I still dressed in a very nice dress & a great pair of heels. It was an amazing experience.
It's interesting that you brough up orchestra/symphony. I would like to add that I think venue is an important part of the dress code equation. The same orchestra in a more casual setting could call for a more casual mode of dress.
Case in point: a couple weeks ago I went to see my dad sing with the Cleveland Orchestra & the chorus. Normally I would at least put on dress pants and a nice shirt and shoes (I'm a twenty-one yr old female) if it were at the concert hall, but the Cleveland Orchestra summers at Blossom, which is a *much* more casual venue than Severance Hall. My mom said that what I was wearing was fine...I happened to be wearing black cargo pants, a gray high school alumni t-shirt, and sandals at the time. For a venue that offers lawn seating right next to the elegant wine bar (and caters to both rock bands and orchestras) the dress code can be confusing.
I'm so lost without the Oprah Winfrey Show...
...and no damn flipflops!!!!
I had occasion to dine at the Fortuny restaurant at Hotel Cipriani in Venice last year – truly one of the more elegant experiences I've ever had, complete with call-up motor launch that takes one from Piazza San Marco across the lagoon out to Giudecca where it's located. It was definitely a dark suit and basic black dress setting. All diners present when we were thought the same thing and dressed accordingly . . . except the sneaker-clad American family, with the teenage son sporting a tee shirt and cargo shorts and the father about the same, save his "cargos" were pant-length. When handed a jacket by the captain, he waved it off "Don't need it. Don't wear them" and the captain humbly withdrew, the rage on his face clear as he turned away. Based on our tariff for two, he Americans probably spent between $500 – $1000 that evening, so one has to sympathise with these types of establishments – but it would be grand just once to see a party such as this turned away at the entrance, it being made clear that their dress was both inappropriate and unacceptable.
YES!
They should have asked him to leave. Want good service in Europe? It is easy. Wear shoes. Wear pants. Wear a blazer/sport coat. Mission accomplished.
The thing I don't understand is why you let this bother you so bad.
GHASTLY!!! But oh so typical. While vacationing in Italy not to long ago, my husband and I played a game......who can spot the badly dressed Americans first!!!
It's NOT the dress that makes the man.....It's whether he can make it look good while walking in heels.
I support them if they fit with the decor of the restaurant. I won't dress up to go to ANY chain restaurant like Olive Garden, PF Chang's, etc. even if its a nicer one. My rule is I will present myself the way a restaurant presents itself.
Sooooo you're a snob and a foodie .... oh wait .... same thing.
Dress codes are needed at restaurants (and the workplace) because a whole lot of people are absolutely clueless on what constitutes appropriate dress.
I find it funny how some people think that only certain people can afford the clothes to go in these places.
A nice suit with shoes anyone can find for $200 but some people prefer saying that they can afford it do they buy a $10 pair of jeans, a $8 t-shirt and a $180 pair of reebok running shoes
TRUE! I can spend the same money on a beautiful dress and heels that someone else spends on t's, jeans & sneakers...and like you said, sometimes even less. It isn't about money, it's about self respect.
So true. Especially guys–any man who has reached the end of puberty can go out and buy a $200 suit and shoes that fit and they will last him the rest of his life (disclaimer: if you keep growing around the middle, that's your own fault). Whereas women are expected to buy a new dress, shoes, makeup, accessories, etc. for every change of seasons, let alone individual special occasions.
Shadowflash: Not exactly correct about getting both suit and comfortable shoes for $200. Comfortable, well-fitting men's dress shoes will cost $200.-300. by themselves. The upside is that they will feel like part of your feet and will last for a few hundred wearings (a lifetime for many men, a year or so for others). However, if you'll be wearing them for just a few hours at a time and can settle for slightly uncomfortable, you can get nice looking shoes for well under $100.
Have you seen the way people do not dress to go to a Broadway show! Outrageous!
I agree. If people don't care how they look for themselves they should at least consider that other people have to look at them. I think it is a matter of self-respect and respect for your spouse and society.
Broadway? Are you kidding me?! Have you seen the way people dress for church these days? When I was a teenager going to church, wearing your "Sunday best" meant something.
Black people still dress to the nines for Church.....Easter is every Sunday at the Baptist church...LOL...
Another snarky comment from the vacuous snob. I rest my case.
I agree and that is a crying shame! Look at how they dress for an opera or even a movie compared with say 20 or 30 years ago!
there was a time when attending a Broadway show was an event; people would be whisked into the lobby quickly and respectfully, and then given the opportunity to have drinks in real glasses from the bar. Now, pople are lined up outside on the street, in the stifling heat or snow or rain, and herded into the lobby and their seats. Any drinks are served in crappy plastic glasses at bars that have no semblance of a line or time to the show's start. If the elegance is gone form the experience, why should people dress like it's still there?
Are people expected to dress up? I can't speak for Broadway, but at opera and orchestra performances, there are usually a few rows up front called the "dress circle"; those folks dress formally, as that's the place to see and be seen. Everybody behind that is allowed to dress as they please. A tuxedo on the mezzanine would look just as inappropriate as a baseball jersey in the front row. And no, this isn't a sign of the times; it's always been that way.
I Always wear a dress and heels when I go out with my husband on a date. In fact, I wear dresses & heels 6 days out of 7. I don't have to look frumpy/dumpy to be comfortable.
they should make sure its a real dress code and check the labels on the guests clothing if its a suit boght at target or walmart keep them out so they dont take a table from someone in an armani
some one needs to get off their high horse!
I would not agree with that opinion. Armani is acceptable in SoCal only. In the rest of the country Brooks Brothers, Hickey Freeman, Turnbull and Asser, Brioni, Corneliani, Canali, would take precedence over Armani. Maybe Ralph Lauren Blue Label, if you're at a more fashion-forward/non-conservative place. Outside of SoCal, Armani is only acceptable at a nightclub or a lounge.
You are aware that this is a food blog, right? No one cares if Armani makes cow turds or Vera Wang does. Please stay on topic.
Shorts and/or flip-flops have no place in any decent establishment. Ever. That applies to everyone. Even though most restaurants don't require jacket/tie anymore, I don't think putting on pants is too much to ask. Unfortunately, in this economy, restaurants need business from everyone, which has all but eliminated any sort of dress code. As a result, I have to look at some dude's nasty feet while I attempt to enjoy my $30 entree.
Why are you looking at the floor and his feet rather than your food?
At least you don't have to salt the food. Your tears do it for you.
Thank you! Through all the low-grade trolling and vacuous snarkery on the CNN comment boards an actually witty remark is quite refreshing.
thank you so much, i really REALLY needed the laugh!!
Really support a dress code. Nothing more disgusting than going to a 5- star restaurant and having someone next to you looking and smelling like they just hiked across Sahara desert
Just because they're dressed "appropriately" doesn't mean they're not going to smell. That's an entirely different matter, and one that can be a much bigger problem (to me at least) than what a person is wearing. Basic hygeine is many times lacking.
Perhaps it would be better for you to eat in. That way you don't have to rub elbows with your social inferiors.
I prefer to eat out ..... doesn't matter if she's inferior or exterior.
The coat-and-tie look that is classified for some reason as the appropriate look for men compels men to look stupid. It's 103 outside and we're all dressed as if it were a chilly morning in London in November? We use a cloth band to tie our collar tightly around our necks so that the howling cold wind can't blow down our collar? It makes men look foolish. It is a ridiculous working-class imitation of the wealthy class.
I dress for myself, not to please others or to allow others to accurately assess my economic and social standing. The coat-and-tie is the look of a long-dead moment in European history. We need to forget it.
Agreed.
You can say you dress only for yourself, but the way you dress will still, inevitably and always, affect perceptions of others about you. You can use that to your advantage or disadvantage. And dressing inappropriately will definitely work to your disadvantage, whether you know it or not. (And no, appropriate doesn't always mean a tie.)
On a level I agree with you. I personally don't wear ties unless I absolutely have to. They are an invention of the French in the late 1800s with the sole fashion purpose of pointing to the penis. They were adopted by corporate America because someone in the 1900s liked the idea of their slaves walking around with "nooses" already around their necks.
But if you go somewhere classy, dress classy. I usually go with a Mandarin style Jacket.
Jason, none of that is true.
Neckties can be traced by to the 1600s not the 1800s. They have nothing to do with male genitals or hanging people. Nice try though, but I suggest you pick up a book and learn historical facts versus making them up. Men look very nice in a good suite versus a slob wearing jeans and t-shirt.
Buy a linen or seersucker suit. They look terrific.
@ El Flaco – I agree, don't see the need for a tie, however a nice jacket and a pair of khakis looks very nice. Even a jacket with a dark pair of jeans and nice shoes looks good. I enjoy seeing men who care about their appearance, particularly when dining out at a higher end restaurant. A slob is a slob – ick.
Under that reasoning, our soldiers should fight bare-chested and in kilts. Or wear tee-shirts and jeans, like half the world's "militaries," most of the members of which picked up their AK-47 last week and proclaim how "professional" they are as they ride in the back of their white Toyota pickup truck (which has been modified to carry a Soviet surplus machinegun). A dress code is a uniform for social functions. It identifies us as belonging to a group and carries with it all the associations belonging to the group. The Roman lengions, the British redcoats and the US Marines all realized this and used it to their advantage. Their enemies started shaking and crapping themselves when they saw those uniforms approaching. Would their enemies have reacted the same way if they saw troops approaching in a mish-mash of tee shirts, jeans and Toyota pickup trucks? What do you want people to associate with you?
Related topic that the author raises in the first paragraphs: why are women, especially under 40, dressing nicely and spending time and resources to look nice when the go out while their dates dress like they're reporting for cleanup duty? We see this all the time and in various cities. What's the real story there?
That's an excellent point, indeed. Perhaps I can coax my colleagues at CNN Living to do a follow-up.
Women are obsessed with what others think of their appearance. It is a weakness that is built into them by evolution, their mothers, and fashion advertising. Women would be happier if they dressed a lot sloppier. They would not be so insecure.
Really El Flaco you missed the entire point, actually you missed the boat. Seriously women, me included, love to dress up not because fashion or family or whoever told us to. I was raised by a single father, in a poverty ridden family and taught that it doesnt take a million bucks to look like a million bucks. Why do you want to look like that? Hmm could it be because it takes 10 seconds for a complete stranger to make an assumption about you that lasts a lifetime. Who cares you say? I do because I am unemployed, fresh out of college, and that complete stranger may have a job for me or that stranger may be a missing connection to help me network to great volunteer activities. It is a matter of pride not vanity that dictates how I dress. I want to be proud of myself, show that I have self esteem and self confidence, so I educated myself and learned to dress in a manner that is becoming for me not society. I love nothing more then going out to a nice restaurant that supports my standard of dressing and dining in like company. If I wanted to slob around with a guy then guess what? I could do it at home, with cheap pizza and wine! In the end you are the company you keep...
Sooooooooooo do you feel strongly about this?
Wow, angry much?
I think I have a theory why you are unemployed and alone. And as for the company you keep, you may want to get used to some solitude, as you sound like a complete killjoy who is trying to overcome for insecurities formed during an impoverished childhood.
Good point. I am 31 years old and in the same boat as many of these women. I can dress to look smashing but my date, eh not so smashing. I wonder why? Men under 40 tell me the same thing over and over.. They were raised in a totally different era than the over 40 guys. Okay think on this.. Any guy 40 years old and younger grew up in the 1970s and on into the 1980s, 1990s. Those years were known for more relaxed fashion and parenting styles as compared to men raised in say the 1940s, 1950s, or 1960s. Start looking into the generation gap like I did and your eyes will be opened. Women on the other hand have always had a mold to fit but guess what.. the generation gap still applies.
To Dr. Phil and Stew,
I am not angry because if I was I would have used alot of capitol letters and exclamation points which I didnt. I just stated my point in a strong, educated yet respectful way.
I am not alone every night. I have dates coming out of my ears but have decided to enjoy the company of an educated, well dressed, all around great guy who loves nothing more that shorts, flip flops and time out in his boat.
Also I am unemployed because if you really do watch the news much then you would realize alot of people are unemployed. My unemployment is different. I work part time, by choice, while I continue on through grad school.
Really Dr. Phil you should know all of this unless you are of course a farce :)
The answer to that question was one I explored in a lot of my anthropology major. The short answer is that the media and marketing shapes a good deal of image formation these days. Another part of it deals with what men and women consider desirable traits in potential mates, as s3x is the biggest marketing tool ever. Another part of it is the perceived value of a particular gender and the characteristics associated with that. And it starts early. If you are ever up in the mornings or some other time that you can catch children's television, check out the gender conditioning that goes on even there. It's an interesting topic.
I always ask for a clean diaper when I go out to eat.
I suppose these dress codes only apply to men, since men always wear shorts and flip flops everywhere, yet women are somehow immaculately put together for every occasion?
So predictable that the first comment would be a misogynistic one.
"First comment"? You either aren't real observant or you didn't type what you meant.
No, women are just better than men at changing the rules–shorts become capris and flip flops become dress shoes. Even T-shirts become dressy tops. I have seen men turned away for not wearing a jacket or tie, but have never seen a woman turned away for her dress. And, FWIW, could you imagine what would happen if a restaurant were to see "All ladies must wear dresses and stockings to be seated"? Be you'll never see it.
I would love to see the same rules enforced on women. Being a woman does not mean I swim in the same stream as them and many of my friends would agree with me on this point. We are tired of looking so Jen Aniston in t shirts, capris, jeans, flip flops, etc. The fashion world aims to please women simply because we spend the most money on their clothes. Yet men are becoming more and more the spender in fashion.With that said I have noticed the trends changing to more feminine, dressy clothes that take cues from the 1950s through the 1970s. The problem is where do women wear these outfits to if restaurants and our workplace does not set the dress code so that we look in place not out of place. No one, male or female, wants to look like the only person in the room over or under dressed ya know. So BJG I agree that women should play by the same rules as men and I applaud you for mentioning that. Just watch the sarcasm, a woman may take that as an insult or worse yet, that you are some poor me kinda guy :)
I suspect, that if a woman showed up at an establishment that has a dress code dressed in jeans and a T-shirt, that she would be turned away. Dressing nicely adds to the dining experience.
You would lose that bet. If she looked like the girl from Ipanema dressed like that they would let her in more often than not.
You, sir, are out of touch. Well-dressed women don't wear stockings anymore. Or pantyhose either for that matter. And women don't change the rules, the fashion industry does. Women who want to and can afford to look fashionably up-to-the minute, the rules, as you call them, are important. Just because it's not important to you doesn't give you the right to make ignorant assumptions.
The restaurants that put up signs that say "appropriate dress required" will not specify what's appropriate. It's left to the judgment of the management for obvious reasons. Sound like there have been women in your life have been shoveling large loads of crap on you.
Fashinably L8–loads of crap? Why? All I said is that restaurants which see no problem in telling men that they must wear a jacket and tie will not make the same demands of women, be it requiring dress and hosiery or even the type of material. And FWIW, I don't think you will ever see a woman turned away from a restaurant because of her dress, while men can be required to wear a relic of the late 19th/20th centruy in a jacket and tie, even though one can be fashionably dressed without either.
As far as i am concerned, I don't care what you wear, or don't wear, and am perfectly comfortable with allowing restaurants to establish a dress code or not. But let's not kid ourselves, the dress codes will only be enforced against men (now clubs are a different thing, and I have seen men and women turned away for inappropriate dress).
I'm a lady and I totally agree with you. Half the time, its not the underdressed men that bother me, its the underdressed women that look like they walked off a Jerry Springer show that bother me. Tatoos, short skirts, udder shirts.....I call it "ho wear". But we choose to pick on the guys if they are wearing cargo shorts and birkenstocks....I'll take a hundred of those just not to see a chicks aureolas in a nice restaurant. It's all about respect, respect for yourself and your mate. Perhaps guys underdress because we let them or because you never have to dress up for your prostitute.
One reason you won't see such a sign is until the 1960s or so women were required to wear dresses and stockings in most public establishments including restaurants. So until you get forced to wear a suit and tie EVERYWHERE for about 150 years, deal with it.
Fashionably L8@BJG, you're the one out of touch. Haven't you seen all the articles about the return of women wearing stockings and pantyhose, largely due to the influence of Kate Middleton? Businesses all over the country are requiring their female executives to wear stockings, and stocking/pantyhose sales are going up. The Wilma Flintstone look of bare legs with a nice dress and shoes is what is out.
Luca – yes, mostly. It's pretty easy to spot couples in any city now where the woman is dressed nicely or appropriately and the man with them is dressed much more casually. Hard to find the reverse. The author is dead on in her comments. There's plenty of unwarranted male bashing out there, but on this topic, it's the real thing.
Thank you FCavali! Me personally I am tired of all the men ganging up on women and vice versa. I mean to dress up doesnt always mean a coat and tie guys. Maybe some establishments want that but ya know a girl gets tired of always wearing heels to everything. So what do we do, scale it down but still look dressy. For you guys that could be something like a nice dress shirt and khakis or dark dress pants. If you want to wear shorts and tshirts that have graphic prints us women totally do not understand but hey that is your thing then we can do that. Just not every night should be a "honey I am running to get pizza or fastfood" kinda night :0
The US is a culture of slobs in sweat pants, flip flops, sacky ass pants and caps for men. The majority of people in this country dress this way because they are so obese. Anyone who travels can pick an American out of the crowd anywhere.
Restaurants that have a clearly stated dress code, I will support wholeheartedly. Having a dress code establishes the type of clientele they would be welcome in their place of business. Sure the money from someone who dresses like a beach bum spends the same as the Armani-styled couple. It's up to the management to decide if they will let in Warren Buffet in swim trunks, a wife beater and flip flops or Joe Blow in his JCPenney business suit. Their business, their call.
Khakis, a pressed dress shirt (either white or light blue) and a navy blazer will get you almost anywhere. If you need a tie, go with a red or dark blue print.
Thanks, Truth, for providing a bit of practical advice. Really, is a tie that painful? Think about that next time you see a woman dressed well wearing stockings and 4 inch stilettos. Isn't that nice to look at? How comfortable do you think that is? Don't we deserve the same effort from men? How can you expect us to snazz up when you refuse? A well-dressed, polite man of any age gets more attention from me than a twenty-year-old sporting six-pack abs with biceps to match.