4-H stands for "Head, heart, hands, health" and apparently a fifth - for "haters."
To many, 4-H Clubs are all about nurturing sweet little calves, adorable children winning ribbons, urban garden patches and proud future farmers grooming prized pigs for show. To others, it's a calculated system for turning the youth of America into cold, unfeeling animal killers.
When Eatocracy ran a 5@5 feature with chef Kelly Liken on the topic of Five Reasons to Buy from Your Local 4-H earlier this week, we quickly identified within the comments two distinct perceptions of the organization - which was originally set up by the United States Department of Agriculture to train the rural youth of America in hands-on skills like agriculture and raising animals. One was that 4-H promotes responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way and the other was that it serves to desensitize children to the suffering of animals.
Here's what our commenters had to say:
In cold blood
I don't and would never support the 4-H. This group helps desensitize youngsters into having no emotional attachment to animals raised for food. For those who say no one should have attachment to animals raised for food, I say "of course". This is how the meat industry stays in business. If children are raised to love all animals and not try to see them as products, they would not be interested in seeing them killed. "Listening to the auctioneer and seeing how excited the children get when their animal is purchased is an incredibly fulfilling experience."
Really? Incredibly fulfilling experience. You mean knowing the animal that trusted you from birth is off to be mistreated before being slaughtered! That's fulfilling? Maybe that's because the 4-H has successfully desensitized these children who may have once be appalled by this. It's simply horrific. Shame on you 4-H for what you do to animals and to children. - Heather King
Education, not desensitization
What 4-H does do is promote responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way. I accept your position that any killing of animals for food is, in your position, not ethical or moral, however most of us are omnivores and I for one would rather that those producing the meat I choose to eat do so in a humane and ethical way. I respect your position, but I would also hope that you would rather see people brought up to understand, and therefore demand, that there an ethical way to treat an animal even if that animal's eventual purpose is the nourishment of a human being.
Desensitization is the wrong word–education is the right word. These kids (I was one) are not at all desensitized to the process–rather, they are educated about proper raising and care of these animals. Not only was I a member, but growing up we also purchased meat and produce from 4H and FFA members–talk about locally sourced! We could be confident in the quality, origin, and raising of these products in a way we can rarely be in a supermarket. - Value rather than desensitization
A lasting impact
Have you ever been at a 4-H auction? Most of the younger kids end up crying after their animal gets bought and not donated back. As they grow older, they wrap their head around the idea, but when they're first starting out they have a hard time accepting it. It doesn't mean they're "desensitized" to it, it's the fact they they've matured and understand that animal's purpose more as time goes on. - Brianna
The circle of life
Someone asked earlier in the thread how many 4-H kids had actually seen an animal slaughtered. In my club back home (rural Sierra Nevadas), the answer was ALL OF US. We toured the packing houses where our animals would later be slaughtered (note packing HOUSES, as these buildings housed perhaps thirty head at an outside estimate, nowhere near large enough to call a "processing plant"), examined carcasses, viewed the taking of animals lives and the bloodletting afterwards, and were given briefings on the saws and tools used. This while spending hours a day bathing, training, feeding and cleaning up after our own still very alive animals. - 4-H fo'sho'
The value of life
It is really so unevolved. Why are people proud that the kids are crying as they lead their animals onto the trailer to be killed for food? You are teaching them that relationships are disposable. That animals are disposable. NOT A GOOD LESSON, and these poor animals raised as pets are off to the slaughterhouse where they will be tortured before they die. - Kathy
It keeps them off the streets
Small scale food-animal raisers aren't cold blooded killers, they're making money doing what they enjoy doing. If anyone is desensitized to animal life, go to Youngstown [ed: where the commenter grew up] and talk to all the thugs on the street that grew up around murders happening weekly. THEN you'll find someone who doesn't value human or animal life.
If I have kids, you bet they'll be in 4-H. I'd rather see them doing that than doing what most of the people I grew up with did. Kids deserve more of a chance than what drugs, crime and partying can offer them. - Brianna
It should be noted that animal husbandry and sales are only a portion of what 4-H Clubs do. Other former members spoke of "arts and crafts like pottery, painting; outdoor activities like camping, canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, and...skills like woodworking and leather-working" as well as horse showing and "cooking, photography, jewelery making" and others. Still, with the issue of animal raising and slaughter on the table, we'd like to know what you think in the comments below.
Previously - A day two pigs would die: ethical slaughter
Hello to all, it's actually a good for me to go to see this web page, it consists of important Information.
i am a 14 year old girl who is devoted to 4-H, i can say personally i have been taught so much! 4-H is not all about selling your animals for meat, allthough that is our common stero type. we learn about leadership , responsibility, devotion, communication skills, compatability, genorasity, compassion, we even learn a little bit about math with the role of the treasureure. cant you see that when you stero type us it hurts!! most to all of us are completely loving and caring for our animals no matter where they are going in the end. we probally love our animals more then the common child. i show dogs as my main hobby/ project. it teaches me pataice and to have a slow temper, because i know that my dog is just learning and no matter what happens in the ring i will always love him( he is an aussie named truman). i am compassonaite about 4-H, infact i have been in it since i was 5 and a half that like 8-9 years!!! 4-hers do a thing called presentation day were we learn communication and speaking skills. we have to prepare and present a 5-8 minute presentations with boards ao a power point. it is nerve racking but it teaches us to follow through. my club wins the slo county gold seal every year because our officers books win gold i am currently the vice president and i love it! look iam just saying that you can speak your opinon but dont make it seem like we are heartless brats because our motto is to make the best better and i belive that we are making best kid better.
just read our pledge:
as a true 4-H member... i pledge my head to clearer thinking my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service, and my heath to better living for my club my community my country and my world.
As a 14 year old, female 4-H-er, I can honestly say that I am appalled at this article. I can also say that it most certainly does NOT desensitize us to killing of animals. I have been a member of 4-H since I was 5 years old, and involved with it since birth. I've shown goats, cows, sheep, chickens, and pigs.
For those of you who say the way we treat the animals is cruel, it isn't. In pig shows we use sticks to guide the animal. We may tap them to make them move a certain direction, and use a bit of force, but in no way do we "beat them half to death" with it. The same goes with showing beef cattle. We aren't stabbing the cow, we are using pressure points so that they will position their feet correctly, similar to a doctor's visit when they tap your knees to test your reflexes. When we push the sides of an animal to make it move, we don't use excessive force, to a human it might be, but for a 200-1200 pound animal, it's simply enough to make it move a little. When you walk throught the livestock barns at the fair, and don't see any food or water, it isn't that we are depriving them of it, it simply isn't feeding time. We walk them to the water every hour or so, and feed them plenty at least twice a day, and they usually have constant access to hay.
For those of you who claim that we are "de-sensitized" or "don't know what happens after they get sold", trust me, we know... and yes, feel sorry for the animal in some ways. We know that after the fair, dairy cattle will be sent to a dariy farm and milked (And yes the calves on the farm do get REAL milk, and get PLENTY of it along with feed), Beef cattle will either be bred or slaughtered, Pigs will be bred or slaughtered, and so forth. If you've ever seen us working with our animals, or washing them, we are most often sweet-talking and petting the animals. If you've seen us at the sales, tears are shed at the parting of our animals and ourselves. However, we know and respect the fact that God put them on this Earth for apurpose, and take pride in knowing that they were raised properly and kindly, better than most of the animals that end up on your grocery store shelves.
For those of you who say that the animals aren't treated right after the fair, they are. Have you ever been to our farms? the pens won't be "Spotless" But they are animals after all. The enlosures are outside, spacious, and with access to shelter, food, and water. They might not be petted as often, but they are given attention daily.
All in all 4-H DOES NOT DESINSETIZE US!!! It teaches us respect for the animals, the life cycle, leadership skills, and so much more. It is a COMPLETELY positive organization. If you have a problem with us, come to the fair and talk to us about it. Thank you.
- A proud SC 4-Her
I'm sorry, but you are all full of crap. It's all wrong. Whether you buy your meat at a grocery store or raise it "the right way." It is still killing.
Animals in the commercial meat industry suffer greatly. And it's also wrong to raise an animal as a pet, then auction it off to the highest bidder. It's a betrayal.
It's easy to talk about the value of 4H and the circle of life; you don't have to do the dying.
One day, we humans may no longer be at the top of the food chain, then, you will see things differently.
Humans do not HAVE to eat meat; they choose to. Just as they choose to make excuses for why it's o.k.
The first step is to say "this is wrong." even if you don't have all the answers yet. Because if enough people stand up and say that it's wrong, solutions will come, and change will happen.
And yes, I am vegetarian.
You guys all talk a good game, but one day, humans are NOT going to be at the top of the food chain. We are going to be the ones taken to slaughterhouses. Then, your views will be quite different.
It's easy for you to talk about the circle of life, having respect for the animal, or doing things the right way . . . you don't have to do the suffering or the dying.
It's a betrayal to raise an animal as a pet, then sell them to the highest bidder. It's also wrong the way animals are treated in commercial slaughterhouses.
The first step in evolving or promoting change is to say "this is wrong." Even if you don't have the solution. Because once enough people say "this is wrong." Solutions, and change will come.
And yes, I am vegetarian.
What is it you think will be at the top of the food chain above humans? Are you spending too much time watching those alien history shows? I don't what it is you think will be above humans. I came across this while doing research about 4-H I have three children two are old enough to be in 4-H now and take care of their animals (mostly on their own) I think it's a fantastic way for them to learn responsibility and develop strong social skills. I personally think animals taste delicious and children need to except and understand the process of where meat comes from. Its animals, some one has to raise them, some one will eat them its never going to stop Cathy Cobb, so its important that children are taught how to care for animals properly (even if they are just for meat). What exactly is it people like you think would happen if we didn't animals? Cows just roam around, breeding, making more cows to roam around, then what... Like deer in the wild population control is a must, we hunt because it feeds our families, but it also helps keep balance. Over population in an area (by animals) isn't going to solve any problems its going to cause them. The circle of life isn't just about the order of how things happen its a need, we need the circle of life, and its livestock's role to be nutrition for people who chose to eat meat. 4-H in my opinion (as a mother of three and someone who was not raised on a farm and loves delicious animal meat) is a fantastic program and I can't wait to see the way 4-H helps my children grow, mature and develop. I also look forward to how it affects the things they think they want to do as a career when they grow up. ( right now my daughter wants to be an artist and my oldest son wants to be an orthodontist, maybe they will want to be vets or own farms or one of the many other things 4-h has to offer might influence their future career decisions like photography) I normally don't comment on things like this but there was that lady who just went overboard on how awful 4-H is and I think that's wrong, just because she thinks its totally wrong to kill animals doesn't mean that the 4-H program is wrong for teaching children about the process. There are many things I don't agree with in life but that doesn't mean i think they are wrong, they just are not for me but I know they serve a purpose for others and that makes it important.
also, what is it you think would happen to the economy if we raised children thinking farming and killing animals for food is wrong...? Lets say everyone jumped on your boat and everyone decided it was wrong, now people don't own pig, cattle or chicken farms ect... which makes them pretty much useless animals so now we have a bunch of animals that are not serving their purpose. So what do we do with them? The slaughter houses will close, there will be no need for truckers who transport the livestock, meat processing plants will close, and the quality control inspectors at these places and the managers and owner and employees of all these places that have their finger in the meat business... its ridiculousness to think that people quitting eating meat and stopping programs that educate children about the process of farming and stuff related to this topic is a good thing, its a bad thing to change the way things are with this topic. Animals are for food and people need to farm and slaughter animals they've been doing it one way or another for ever and it will and needs to continue for many reasons.
I am currently in 4-H and FFA and both of my parents are leaders. If you don't think we have an emotional attachment you obviously have never been to a county fair. I cried my eyes out when I sold my first steer. It may be sad but it is the circle of life. I make money from all the animals i sell, and the buyers eat the meat. I put all the money toward college. I love 4-H; always will. I can raise beef and a lamb. 4-H teaches responsibility,not to be lazy, and much common sense that I would not have learned without 4-H. The next time you judge 4-H or farming and ranching, do your research not on the internet actually go to a farm, a county fair. and talk to 4-Hers. See what they have to say. I would sure as heck love to tell someone what really goes on. ENJOY YOUR MEAT!!! P.S. Where do you think all of the farmers and ranchers who raise meat today came from?? (Hint ~ lots of them were in 4-H!)
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I am sorry. I am a vegetarian and I love 4-H! I have nothing against animals being used for meat. I dont eat meat because I feel better (Physically) when I dont eat it. 4-H has nothing to do with hating... In fact its the complete opposite... It teaches you to love other people and treat them with respect. 4-H Educates youth to work well in any environment and gives kid the opportunity to expand their knowledge, wisdom, and understanding of anything they would like to know. I am so sorry you have not been effected the way I have, but you really should know more about the people before you make false statements... I raised sheep and goats, rabbits and ducks... And for your information... I named each and everyone of them... I did not eat them... but I took care of them. :) Smile Jesus Loves you!
Thank you for not being bias in your quotes... :)
Thank you, Mason, for your viewpoint. I agree, 4-H has nothing to do with hating ... I think the story meant, some people hate 4-H. The story doesn't have a very good headline and starts off a little badly. I do like it for presenting for and against. I too don't eat meat, but I understand why people do and feel that they need or want to. I don't bash meat-eaters :). I just ask people to try to be careful about where their food comes from, to try to buy from compassionate sources, like 4-H. And truly, I don't think this story is bashing 4-H ... just making the point that it's hard on kids to raise animals and then send them to slaughter. I agree with that perspective, being a former farm girl :).
I am not surprised that CNN ran this story. CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC, and NBC are only too happy to run stories that are meant to destroy our American values. I grew up on a farm. We raised cows, horses, sheep ,and 4-H pigs. Both my brother and I raised and showed sheep and pigs. My Daddy took me to the local bank to borrow the money to buy that first lamb. I was nine years old. When I sold "Baby" I cried. I wasn't too happy about paying back the bank either, BUT, I learned valuable life lessons: some animals are raised for food and, when you incur a debt, you pay it back with interest! As an adult I served as a 4-H professional educator for 36 years. During that time, my son became a 4-H member and showed pigs. He was also involved in the Small Engines, Automotive, Foods, Public Speaking, and Leadership Projects. He is now a Lt. Colonel and Batallion Commander in the Texas National Guard, a good husband and father. He is making a difference in his country and community. His story is only one among thousands I could relate about how 4-H has influenced the lives of children from farms, rural areas, and inner cities. 4-H members and former members are good solid citizens. They contribute to society – not take from it. They are leaders in their homes, schools, churches, communities, states, and country. They are homemakers, scientists, teachers, farmers, doctors and lawyers. They serve in all walks of life. On their behalf, and that of the many professionals and volunteers who believe in and work for hese youth. I am HIGHLY OFFENDED by this story. If CNN did due diligence and researched the true value of
4-H, the largest youth organization in the world, they would be telling a different story. That, however, would be too much to ask of this news (and I use that term lightly), organization. Want to show how our youth are being desensitized to killing? Do a story on video games, movies, TV, and gangs. Leave youth organizations that help develop citizens who make thier world a BETTER place alone!
Please read the story. It includes positive viewpoints about 4-H that you would like and appreciate. I think a story is unbiased if it includes both sides ... and this one does.
Wow, I am SO sorry, but I beg to disagree ... I think it's terribly hard on kids to have to "kill their project" as someone says. To me, that statement there says, yes, 4-H does, in some sense, desensitize kids to killing. You are calling a living, feeling creature "a project." I was in 4-H myself. There were great aspects about it, but I do believe it teaches us as a society to treat an animal as a commodity. You raise it, love it, and then, sell it to slaughter. I went to college on a scholarship based on academic achievement, not on pain and suffering caused to a sentient being. And I took out student loans and worked like crazy. Again, I don't mean to offend, and I know I'll get yelled at and blasted for my opinion, but it's a valid opinion. I'm not saying 4-H'ers are cruel people in any way. I think they're kind and caring and are the salt of the earth. But let's just be honest about this and not sugarcoat it.
I’m in 4-H and FFA and without both of these organizations I don’t know where I would be! Both of 4-H and FFA have helped me decided on what I want my major in college to be (Agribusiness and possibly Agriculture Education.) I live on a cow calf operation, and I’ve shown cattle for seven years. Because of this I’ve made a countless amount of friends, gain so many leadership skills, and have been able to serve as an officer in my 4-H club. When you go to the fair you see 4-H’ers and FFA’ers fitting their calves. We’ve spent the whole year getting ready to show that steer off, and we want that calf to be the best he can be. When you win with that steer, whether it’s a showmanship class or a market class, it is the best feeling on earth!! Finally when you’re in the sale pen and you’re showing off your calf for the last time, you look up and you see all the buyers biding on your animal, it’s unbelievable! Knowing that you raised a calf that someone WANTS to buy is one of the most rewarding experiences! Not to mention most of us are using our sale money for college. One the last day of fair many members are found lying on their calves crying. How can anyone say that’s desensitizing us to killing our projects? We’re proud of them, and we care about them. If we didn’t care about our animals, then why did we spend our whole year raising them? 4-H and FFA are both amazing programs and I know they will always be part of my life. And someday when I have children, they will be involved in and 4-H and FFA!
I serve on the State Executive Board for Louisiana 4-H. This board of thirty youth oversee all youth 4-H events at every level to make sure that they are run efficiently, they are educational, and that they are fun for all 4-H'ers in attendance. You can obviously see that when the 4-H community feels attacked, they come back with a vengeance. But let's cover the issue at hand. In Louisiana raising livestock in any form is considered a project. When the members begin the project (usually in elementary school), they are given a project that teaches them how to feed and nurture their animals. As the 4-H'ers get older the project books become more challenging and offer more advanced information. 4-H agents and volunteers are always ready to help the members when and their families when the members have a problem. Sometimes the members come from farming families; simultaneously, the simple 4-H project has become vital in strengthening family involvement. Together, they rejoice when that Angus steer wins grand champion and console each other through the tears when that same steer is auctioned and sold. These children are not desensitized; 4-H'ers grow and mature through this project. They learn how to love and care for animals, unlike some urban areas where the children treat their pets like dish towels. These 4-H'ers gain work ethic, MORALS, and a new respect for farmers.
Hi i first want to say i agree fully with you Austin and i am a 4her and in FFA AND a beef farmer i live in minnesota where my family raises Horned polled and club calved HEREFORDS so i was just saying i agree with you except for the part were you say AN NGUSSTEER IT COULD BE ANY bred such as hereford blackbaldie charolia
This article is really a joke. 4-H does not stand for "hatred towards animals". Try reading our pledge and motto.
"I pledge my head to clearer thinking,
my heart to greater loyalty,
my hands to larger service
and my health to better living,
for my club, my community, my country, and my world."
Where is hatred in there or the ruthless children slaughtering animals? Our motto is to make the best better.
4-H is a lot like FFA (Future Farmers of America) with the agricultural side but that is only ONE aspect of this great national youth organization. It's wrong of you (arthur of article that decided to be nameless) to pick out one part of 4-H and then to twist it to benefit your view.
4-H offers more than showing cattle, hogs, horses, and other farm animals at state fairs across the country. It teaches youth in all forms, races, and ages about healthy lifestyles, community service, public speaking, and networking. This article should not be aiming readers to hate children for living on a farm. The author should change the title to "Does video games desensitize kids to killing?", it sounds more appropriate and accurate.
In all of my years of being active in this great organization I have never heard of anything remotely more absurd. I was always involved with summer camp, community service projects, county 4-H events such as workshops to prepare for District Project Achievement (a public speaking competition in over 30 different categories), district events (Competing at District Project Achievement against 10-15 other peers in the same category and/or weekend retreats to learn about financial literacy, internet safety, or health classes and community service projects of making cards for our troops overseas and helping out with the 4-H program Operation Military Kids.), state events (State Congress where you compete with other kids at the project achievement level to win a master 4-H'er status award and eligibility to go to the National 4-H Congress, running for a State 4-H Board of Directors Board Member where you campaign against peers across the entire state, 4-H Healthy Lifestyles Ambassador, 4-H Technology Team, etc.), national events (National 4-H Congress, 4-H Citizen Washington Focus–where 4-H'ers spend a week in Washington, D.C. learning about our nations capital and about politics, several other 4-H teams compete on the national level), and world wide events (such as seeing how other 4-H organizations operate in different parts of the world such as Puerto Rico).
There are so many other activities and events that a child can do in the organization of 4-H that was not listed above. 4-H is not only for rural children but made for children living inside America's great cities as well. How can a child take care of a pig, cow, horse, or other animal while living inside a metropolis such as New York City, Chicago, Washington, D.C., or Atlanta? Also, 4-H on a national scale has been implementing the new standards for the 4-H SET (Science, Engineering, and Technology) curriculum. This goes hand in hand with what the government has challenged our nations' schools with promoting more children to go to college and pursue a career in the Science, Engineering, or Technology fields to compete on a global scale.
So, tell me readers, "haters", CNN editorial staff how can this organization of 4-H that prepares a child for public speaking, networking, community service, a love and understanding of their country, and greater sense for future college and career goals make a child desensitized to killing? Why don't you publish a study by several research based institutions? 4-H is ran through land grant research based universities. Please do your research before you criticize something that is preparing your child for the future. Our children our the future of our country.
Please read the article. CNN is just raising a questions about one aspect of 4-H; it is not saying anything about hating the entire organization. In addition, if you read the article, it gives both criticism and praise for 4-H. I appreciate your viewpoint and support for 4-H; it's wonderful and your comments are really educational. But, honestly, I find it so odd that so many 4-H'ers have leapt to defend something that's not even being attacked. In addition, at the end of the article, it notes that 4-H teaches other things beside animal husbandry. I'm not sure if I'm proud that 4-H'ers defend their organization with such passion, or dismayed that 4-H'ers don't appear to utilizing their reading/critical thinking skills. Again, great that 4-H folks are proud of their group and it sounds like a lot of good happens there (and I remember plenty of good stuff from my days in 4-H), but everyone needs to apply their critical thinking skills here.
I'm not going to to sit here and write a book for you to read to get my point across... I'm just going to leave you with a statement that was told to me by my local sheriff and parish District Attorney: "You never here about 4-Hers in the news, or anywhere for that matter, being put in jail for stealing, selling/buying drugs, or being in any kind of trouble with the law." Why do you ask? Because we as 4-Hers are too busy with our projects, whether it be in leadership, science, engineering, technology, fashion, healthy living, livestock, citizenship, and many other crucial areas that are needed to make us into well-rounded individuals.
I do realize that the 4-H folks who have posted here are caring people who obviously mean well and try, in the best of these circumstances, to treat their animals with kindness and compassion. I have tried to learn from the folks who've posted here and listen and understand. I've realized that there is great goodness there and none of the people who've posted is insensitive to sending an animal off to slaughter. However, re slaughter - someone incorrectly mentioned that it's done in the most humane way - unless you walk the cow through the process, there is absolutely no way to guarantee an animal is humanely slaughtered. I can guarantee that the animals are terrified as they're trundled off to the slaughter-house. It's been documented that some animals - in some slaughterhouses, not all - have survived the stunning stage and are still alive when they're hung upside to have their throats slashed. Luckily, I can guarantee that they're dead when they're beheaded and skinned. I also don't buy the "circle of life" argument because we don't then eat the raw flesh of the slaughtered cow. No, it's so repulsive to us ... or so tough for our little spade-like incisors to rend, that we have to cook it before eating. Yes, as a 4-Her mentioned, we should question anything we're told - but that, no pun intended, cuts both way. I think the term "circle of life" romanticizes what really happens once the cow leaves the farm, and implies that we obese Americans need yet another steak on our already full plates.
To everyone who doesn't understand agriculture,
I am a proud member of the FFA, and organization similar in many ways to 4-H. This program has given me buisness, speaking and every day people skills as well as teaching me how the world really gets its food.
I personally raise sheep and cattle, some for breeding and others for slaughter. I also know hundreds of other young men and women who do. And if there is one thing I can tell you, it is that we do love our animals. I name all of mine and care for them like I would a dog. I have seen almost all my friends cry on auction day because of the attatchment to our animals.
FFA and 4-H does not teach you "killing is OK", it teaches you that it IS the circle of life. Everyone has to eat, and I know that those involved in responsible agricultural practices, the practices taught in such youth organizations, cares for their animals to the best of their ability and when their day rolls around, the are slaughterd in the most humane way possible. That, I promise.
It upsets me, that people has such little faith in what they don't understand. I want everyone to understand agriculture, FFA and life. Don't be afraid to ask questions, but don't trust everything you hear.
When you think about how "terrible" organizations like these are, I want you to consider that these are the people feeding you. And feeding you is their passion! Don't make them afraid of you. And also, think about all the kids who truely think their food only comes from the super market. I had a young boy who asked me "why we have to grow chickens if they grow chicken meat at the store?" I've gotten similar questions about hamburger, bacon and even milk.
The FFA and 4-H are trying to inform youth, not hurt them.
Thanks.
People who write articles like this are the individuals who are ignorant to the situation! It is evident that they have never taken part in a 4-H project and do not understand the strict guidelines applied to slaughter houses. The idea that all animals are abused before slaughtering is a misconception based on, once again, ignorance. Please be sure to educate yourself about something before you make yourself look foolish. I have been an active 4-H/FFA member for over 10 years and I see the amazing lessons of hard work and responsibility we gain from experiences within these amazing programs. An animal's purpose on earth is to be used for our food, It's the great circle of life.
Tierra, the article actually says good things about 4-H too. It's a shame people keep harping on how terrible this article is without really reading it. But I do understand that its headline is confusing and not a good choice of words. And you'll note that there are comments within the article by people who are in 4-H, so that doesn't exactly make them ignorant of the situation. As for the circle of life argument, well, that's a really tired one. While I agree that 4-H kids don't abuse their animals, in general, what we as a society do to animals in this country is a crying shame. We treat them as commodities without feelings, we breed them as mere meat/milk machines, we cause genetic aberrations all in the interest of meat/milk production, and then, we send these intelligent creatures, just as capable of suffering as we are, off to slaughter. That's a circle of shame, not life. And ironically, we as a country are so overweight and/or obese, it'd behoove us to switch to veggies.
Wow, um, thank you for your rather insulting and shrill response, PROUD 4-H FAMILY. I appreciate your viewpoint, by don't understand the insulting tone. It's admirable what you do - raising your animals, but don't insult those of us who choose not to live exactly the way you do. Also, there are other options to buying meat at a grocery store (which I agree, is a bad option). One could not eat meat at all and thus, help one's health and the environment. So you too, as you say, try living outside the box too!
UGH......some people are just down right STUPID!! who or why would anyone pick a burger from mcdonald's then a burger made from an all beef steer, your home raised steer will give you a burger thats nothing BUT ALL BEEF. Do any of you that are against rasing your own steer to eat know what your REALLY eating when you go to fast food places or buy packed meats at a grocery store? I doubt it! Theres nothing better then an all pasture raised animal to eat, the most organic your gonna get! Do you know how they raise the chicken that you all buy at the stores? I doubt that too! Have you even seen an injected chicken? Thats what you eat when you buy them from a store. If you buy them from a kid that raised them for show, your gonna get something thats all natural, MUCH BETTER!!! So all you that are against kids in 4-H must not know how to do anything for yourself that you count on the stores to provide you with everything for life. I know my kids will ALWAYS be able to take care of themselves and not rely on stores or fast foods. We raise chickens, turkey's, steers, goats, ducks, sheep and hogs all JUST TO EAT!!!!! So when the stores close and the fast food places shut down I'll be sure to remember whos against 4-H so when they come knockin on my door asking if they can eat with us, I'll ask them how bad is 4-H now?! Lets see who knows what circle of life means then. Get a life people, learn how to live outside of a box!
When I was ten or eleven I cried like a baby when they took my steer's lead rope out of my hand, led him
into the trailer and gave me back an empty halter. Eight years later when it was my job to help load the
trailer I almost cried when I looked at the younger kid's pain. You don't spend all spring every day with an
animal and not get attached. But life, love, and loss of life is all part of our world. 4-H was an important
part of my early life and taught me skills I still use every day and I've been gone from the farm for decades.
I too was a 10 year 4-her, and after my involvement, have went back to my county and continued to help and stay invluved. With that being said, "desensitized" is assnine. I love how people think that just because we raise animals and sell thehem at market, that we are bad people. Bottom line is, 4-H teaches kids about how to accept what animals purpose is. We are still sensitive to the fact that they are being sold for slaughter, however there is a general understanding that this is part of life, and without them, we would starve. And while we are on the topic, lets focus on the positives of 4_h . the fact that it teaches kids resposibility, sportsmanship, dedication,how to care for something else other than yourself. In addition the life long friends that are made. What about interview skills, character and everything else? 4-H and agriculture incldued are good programs, and I hate that everyone who isn't familiar with it bashes on it. Take a walk in a 4-Hers boots before you judge, and you"ll see how much of an impact that the program has, and how much care goes into the animals.
Ok, I'm 15 years old. I have been in 4-H for 10 Years and am still continuing. I started out showing market goats at my county fair. Every year i would get extremely attached to my animal, and every year they had to go to the same place in the end of the week. The packer truck. And every year i cry my eyes out because it was my animal. Grant it that some were harder than others. For instance i started showing market steers 2 years ago. My first year i had a kie-main/angus cross. most of you probably don't know what that is. In other words its a calf that's breed is bigger built than most with a very bad additude mixed with an angus or regular meat calf. I never really made friends with this steer. but I was the only one who could handle him, the only one he trusted. I say that we didn't always get along though. When i was at the fair with him he through me over a 5.5 foot fence... At first i was a little rattled but then i laughed so hard i was crying. Then after the auction at the end of the week i wasn't satisfied with his sale price. I actually lost $400 on him between purchase price and the feed bill. After all that I still couldn't stand to be in the barn when he was walked down the aisle to load the truck. And when i came back he wasn't there and yes i cried. This being the steer that had injured me several times and thrown me over a fence, and I CRIED WHEN HE LEFT. Most people would have said thank the Lord he's gone. My point is that the killing and dying part isn't what 4-H is about. It's about the Building of a relationship between you and your animal and taking that to competition. And how many of you have actually been inside a slaughter house? I have. My group took a tour of it. it wasn't the prettiest thing i'll give it that. But for those of you who haven't and are speaking out on what you don't know. The animals die quickly and painlessly, by shotgun or rifle. Also I just want to say WHO ARE YOU TO HAVE ANY RIGHT TO TALK ABOUT ANIMAL CRUELTY BEING ONLY ON 4-Her's??? When my steers are getting into shape waiting on fairs. they get fans, ;misters , and more baths than i do. Some even have their own air conditioned boxes. Its almost crazy the care we get. Also no matter what anyone may say trying to guilt trip you into believing that animals trust you they don't. they all have minds of their own. They just learn to tolerate you being around that doesn't mean that they don't have favorites because they do because thats the person they are used to being around. Last year i got the Grand Champion Market Steer. and yes he also went to the packing house, and yes i cried. Just goes to show you that no matter how many times you do it you never get "desensitized" to your animal leaving. Like i said i've done it for 10 years and still going and it still gets to me every time.
Does 4-H desesnitize kids to killing? One has to ask the question, what is being desensitized? I believe the way this article presents it, the answer is a resounding "no." Being desensitized is described as emotionally unresponsive. In all my years of 4-H, I have never seen a child that was not affected by their animals, wether it be with pride because their grand champion steer commanded the highest selling price the auction has ever seen, or getting teary because the knew it was time for their animal to go. In both cases however, it was still the child's choice to sell that animal. Kids fully understand what they are getting into before they raise a meat animal. 4-H is up front about meat animals and their intended use. And yet, despite having to load that animal up on the truck for the packers, the children come back again next year. And the year after that. One has to wonder, if showing 4-H livestock is so terrible, why do children willingly come back and do the same projects year after year?
This article and many people are extremely misinformed. 4-H children are not forced to sell their animals at the auction. They can choose to keep the animal indefinately or pursue other livestock projects that do not consume the animals for meat. They can chose to raise egg laying chickens instead of broilers. Dairy cattle instead of beef. Wool sheep instead of market lambs. Milk goats instead of meat. Rabbit wool instead of meat rabbit. Let's not forget there are several animals that you may show that will never be slaughtered, such as horses or llamas. You many also participate in dog obedience, cat showing, or pocket pets, which include a myriad of little critters like hamsters and guinea pigs.
I am eternally grateful for the lessons I learned from 4-H. It was a blast, and my 10 year membership secured a job for me from a complete stranger. They didn't even talk about my credentials during the job interview, just 4-H, lol. Nothing but good things come from this program and the FFA, and I wish more children knew about it. There is nothing more healthy for a child then to have something productive and educational to do that they enjoy, and I wish more places, especially the inner cities had more postive programs like this for their youth. I bet you would see a drastic decrease in drug use and crimes.
4-H taught me the value of life and the simple fact that we all have a purpose. I loved my animals and realized that they were a part of our food chain. I respected the fact that they became a part of our sustenance. You may feel differently, but don't shove your values onto 4-Hers. Raising animals successfully requires a caring and compassionate soul. And for that matter farming in general takes a moral mindset that most of this country has forgotten. Try raising your own food and then get back to me. I also have never seen a news story start off with "suspected murderer and known 4-Her". Just saying...
Orange Goat: How is expressing an opinion "shoving your values onto 4-Hers"? Are people who disagree with you not allowed to express their opinions? In addition, try reading the story - it presents viewpoints both pro and con.
Wow! This is very different from the week we just experienced on the farm. Four-year-old Addison had to learn this lesson a little earlier than we had anticipated due to a freak accident. Believe me, we ALL cried (from my mother-in-law in her 50's to little Addison). Raising food for the world is a noble profession, and this article remind me of how many people don't understand the basic concept. Without farmers caring for them, these animals would not exist. Read about the "Hello Kitty" lesson here: mycowsandpigs.blogspot.com
Carrie, so sorry about Hello Kitty and your daughter's loss.
Also, I'm not quite sure I understand your logic about "without farmers caring for them, these animals would not exist." Don't the farmers breed the animals? By having the animals reproduce, farmers then, yes, have to care for them. If the farmers didn't breed them, the animals wouldn't exist to be cared for. Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding.
As a 4-H alum I was shocked and offended by this article. I can assure you that showing livestock in 4-H and FFA was the most beneficial activity I ever participated in. I wrote a blog responding to this article here: http://tiffanyd22.blogspot.com/2011/07/family-farm-friday-59-fired-up.html
I am a active 4h member they teach how to care for animals. they also tell about meat production but meat production is totally different then hating animals they also don't teach how to make animals suffer they tell you never to do that. this article is full of lies an you should take it down and write an article that tells the truth.
Lots of hype on this issue...there is a 4H group in my town with 8 kids between 8 and 13 years old, they are investigating raising chickens. They're already WAY ahead of their counterparts through their (4H) immersion into fertilization, cell growth and mitosis concepts, embryology, nutrition, along with getting to raise chicks /chickens from eggs and ultimately growing very high quality eggs to eat. You honestly don't have to watch too long to see these kids are learning advanced biology concepts years before their school system gets into it. This article looks more like radical vegetarianism than an honest look at "desensitizing" kids. It's a sign of the times that CNN and some media-minded people malign groups like 4H for what appears to be little more than food source ignorance. Anyone who has thoroughly investigated industrial/commercial food knows that it fails by comparison to small-scale, locally produced food. Eat a tomato, chicken, cucumber -whatever- from your backyard and see how it compares to its industrial counterpart, shipped 1,500 miles in a refrigerated truck.
4-H farms are vastly more humane conditions for animals to be raised in than the medieval hell that is factory farms. That beef you picked up for $1.29 a pound came from a cow that could never so much as take a step because of how jam packed it is with other cows, never seeing the light of day or being able to move freely, living covered in defecation, sores, and only kept alive through powerful antibiotics.
4H farms on the other hand raise animals the way it's been done for millennia – the animals are raised on small farms with freedom of movement, loving care and an overall comfortable life before it's time to fulfill its role in the food chain. Kids learning these skills is a hell of a lot better than staring at screens, and gives them an appreciation for where their food comes from. I'm all for animal rights but attack factory farms and not 4H.
Your time might have been better spent talking about the video games that children play. 4-H is the largest youth organization in the world for a reason. Maybe you should have researched your topic a bit more. You are waaaaaaay off base on this one. In fact, I believe you might find an apology is due to 4-Hers across the country. We won't, however, hold our collective breath waiting for that to happen.
Sounds like you only read the title and not the whole post. YOU are waaaaaaay off base.
Wow now we are attacking the 4H program in this country. In post colonial Africa programs have been set up to get people back to subsistent farming to survive. At the rate PETA & USHS are trying to cut off our feeding our own country we will be third world with them. My son said goodbye to his 4H goat last year sitting with the animal in his stall at our county fair. The entire program is nationwide and one of the greatest bunch of people in this country volunteer to see it's success. I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to greater service and my health to better living for my club my community and my world!
This article is ridiculous. I am in my last year of 4-H and it has helped me grow more mature than any other of my college friends. And guess what?! I am a meat eater and my best friend is a vegetarian! It’s not too hard to put aside our differences. We need to stop hating on each other and let’s do that by getting the correct message out there on how food animals are raised. Don’t listen to PETA or the HSUS, considering that they have a vegan agenda and give the public many wrong pictures and misconceptions. Listen to your local farmer. And farmers, we need to tell our story before animal activists keep on doing it for us-because they aren’t getting it right.
I come from a dairy farm and I am close with many people who raise meat animals. I know they have shed some tears when their animal goes to harvest. As time goes on, they get used to it. It’s not desensitizing them, rather they are understanding that every living creature will someday cease life. If anything, the kids are proud and happy that they were able to care for and raise a wonderful animal. The kids definitely have an attachment to their animals. They have to spend a lot of time with them-halter training them, taming them, washing them, brushing them, shaving them and showing them. Personally, I love my show cows more than some of our cats and part of that is because I’ve spent so much time with the cows. 4-H does NOT support any kind of animal mistreatment whatsoever. It is definitely required in Minnesota and highly likely in other states that the kids attend a Livestock Quality and Ethics training in order to show.
This goes for all of us: please read this excerpt from Romans 14. “Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man’s faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.”
I think that verse speaks for itself.
Just so all reading this are completely aware 4H does so much more then just crafts,competitions, and skill sets. The children coming out of this program have the utmost respect for all of those around them. 4H teaches respect, leadership, the joys of education/learning as well as giving the children a sense of goals and accomplishments. These values are something the general community is lacking. i'm proud to be a supporter of 4H and will continue to encourage all youth to join in some form or another. It should also be noted that 4H provides large amounts of support in the Operation Military Kids (OMK). With out 4H OMK would not be able to provide great activities such as archery, hiking, crafts, swimming, fishing, boating and so on for the children of our deployed service members. 4H also provides the best camp counselors and organizers for these events. These staff members are trained and compassionate to the needs of the children who are struggling with there mother or father being deployed. In conclusion 4H provides so much more then the raising of livestock. Open your eyes and look into a subject before you judge others. 4H has done this and always will. They have core values taught to them to not judge others is such a harsh manner. Maybe those of you judging need to speak to a 4H member or attend an event. It would be insightful for you.
I simply cannot believe this article. I was a member of 4H for years. It taught me responsibility, friendship, leadership, craftsmanship, loyalty and most of all, humane treatment of animals. I was raised young on a dairy farm and understood NATURE, of which human beings are a part of, and of which many people around the world are forgetting more and more. I am so tired of people telling me how and what to eat. I buy local and support local farms. Not just because it is healthier and better for my community and my personal health, but I also see how it supports local families and their kids. When I walk through the county fair and look at all the 4-H booths, I well up with pride. I was once one of those kids. I have lived in the country and in many big cities around the US, and eventually found my way home again. When I hear the ignorant crap that comes out of people's mouths about 4H or farming, I get so angry. If you live in a city, you meet kids who have no idea where ANY of their food comes from. Period. Not meat or vegetable. They are totally desensitized to the entire food process. Ergo, they eat more crap! I see the children here in the countryside as healthy, happy and vibrant young people. Especially if they are in FFA or 4H. They tend to develop a sense of themselves and their surroundings early in life. They tend to have a good self esteem. Why? Because they learned at an early age how to actually do things and aren't molly coddled and hampered through life. They have less problems with drugs and alcohol. On the whole, as my dad, a dairy farmer for over 50 years would say, "they are darned good kids." Tell the Author to take a tour of a local dairy/beef, goat, chicken or vegetable farm and actually see the hard work, determination, and pride that comes from a farming family. As we say in our family, "never bad mouth a farmer on a full stomach."
This is absolutely ridiculous I have been a 4-H'er for 10 years and raising and selling market animals for 8. I am now an alumni of 4-H. To think that 4-H makes kids feel very desensitized to animals is ridiculous. Each market animal I have had I have had emotional attachment. What some people have to realize is that meat animals, like dairy animals, have a purpose. To be a meat animal and become meat is their purpose in their life. I am sure most of you on here eat a burger from say McDonalds well that burger or chicken sandwich even, was a living breathing animal at some point. To say you are not supporting 4-H due to market animals is stupid plain and simple.
If you want to teach your kid how to eat local, sustainable food you have to teach them where their food comes from. How many of you 4H bashers out there teach your kids how their food is raised? Have any of you planted and raised a garden? Does your kid know that the carrot they are soaking in ranch dressing doesn't come pre-washed, sliced and in plastic bags? Do they know that the milk they wash their breakfast down with comes from cows? Can they identify the difference between spinach, lettuce, arugula and mesclun? Do they know that apples come from trees and potatoes come out of the dirt?
If the answer to any of these things is no, then I argue that those of you bashing 4H have some work to do before you can talk about how we raise our kids. My child knows that food from our garden is better than the crap in the store (even Whole Foods "organic" crap isn't as good as home grown) and she knows that hamburgers and steaks come from the cows she sees when we drive down the road.
4H is helping teach her not only about her food, but how to sew her own clothes, decorate cakes, make friends with kids from all walks of life. It's teaching her public speaking and how to have confidence in herself.
I ask all of you 4H bashers out there – can you say the same things about your kids? Do they know where their food comes from? Can they grow their own food? Can they make their own clothes? Can they speak confidently and appropriately in any situation?
My child is not "desensitized " to killing animals. She is hyperaware of where her food comes from.
Kids who don't know that their hamburger comes from a cow or think that their carrots are prewashed, sliced and come with a side of ranch are the ones that are "desensitized" and are shocked when they find out that food isn't just something you go to the grocery store and magically get any time you want it.
If you have a problem with CAFO's and the way animals are treated before they are slaughtered, go fight that battle elsewhere. 4H isn't the problem. Leave us alone and let us raise our kids to be productive sensitive educated consumers who know how to buy local sustainable food. We take the time to teach our kids.
"To Make The Best Better" is our motto. Quit hating and pick a fight elsewhere. We'll be right here, doing what we've done for decades – raising good kids to be great adults. Can you say the same?
Lynn, I thought about that too - if the kids cry when they lose the animals, then they aren't desensitized. So that's a good thing! Maybe it would have been better to ask if they're traumatized. The headline isn't very good. I think they were alluding to trauma. But maybe that's another discussion :). Yes, 4-H does engender hard work and responsibility. I agree with that definitely.
Everyone commenting should really read the article, if they haven't. The headline is misleading, unfortunately. It shows various views of 4-H (via the included comments), but doesn't call 4-H a "hater." The headline is confusing and provoking, but the article then goes into a discussion of how various folks feel about 4-H. Although the headline is provoking, as I mentioned, the article really does say good things about 4-H too.
If more youth had done a livestock project I am pretty darn sure that there would be a lot less random shootings, gang violence and more would have the basic knowledge of life. A 4-H livestock member not only picks their animal and sells it, they learn about and experience life!! The chosen animal recieves more loving than your traditionally raised livestock but there is so much more. My three kids cried every year including the all grown up age of 18, if they hadn't I would have been seriosly worried about their mental state. Learning that giving all your love and attention to someone or something and knowing that loosing them is a natural way of life does not desensitize them it gives them first hand experience in how it really feels and how to handle those emotions. It is not a game where you get great at killing everything around you without ever feeling anything and later getting the urge to go see what a real killing feels like.These children are the ones who are strong, sensative and productive members and leaders of our society 4-H gives this to our youth, the knowledge that hard work despite the sorrows is ever rewarding! They get up shortly after dawn to work the animals, groom them, feed them and all the while trying to be a nutritionist, a physical trainer learning to provide and maintain the land as well as working at being a vet. Top that off with keeping your grades up in school, playing sports and trying to be involved in just about everything that invoves leadership, then turning around that evening and doing it all over again. How can this be desensitizing or bad for our youth? It's not! This is the best teacher of life and I will always support it. They give their heads to clearer thinking, their hearts to greater loyalty, their hands to larger serviceand their health to better living for their club, community, country and world. How many hard working Americans can say that and mean it!!~
As a 4-Her for 6 years, i have learned many values and skill needed to succeed in live. I have raised swine for 4 years and beef for 2. People disrespecting 4-Hers by calling us 'haters' is hurtful. I have raised each and every vne of my animals with kindness, love, and compassion. If people think that we dont care what happens to our animals, you obviously have not been to there when our animals are beeing loaded onto the trailer and we are forced to say our last goodbyes. There are MANY tears shed, from both girls and boys. My animals are given a great life. if you want to call us haters, go ahead, but dont make yourself look like fools because you dont know what you are talking about. If you would take the time and learn what we really do, then you would understand. I will always be a 4-her and will always be proud to say it.
4H is vital, because without it, how would the neocons indoctrinate the next generation of slaves to the military industrial complex...
You're right, 4-H mom. I think if we're going to eat animals, we owe it to them to raise them with kindness and compassion. And yep, there's way more chance of that on a small, family, and/or 4-H farm. Most of the folks from 4-H who've posted have made a point of reminding us that they try to raise the animals compassionately and in a fashion that's right for their nature (space to move around, etc.). That's good to hear and I'm gaining a better understanding of how you all feel. Yep, I agree - shop at local stores; try not to patronize any place that supports large-scale farming like the farm in Iowa. Unfortunately, the large stores offer meats more cheaply, and it can be hard or impossible to spend extra money on grass-fed, organic meat. I have meat-eating friends who feel bad about what happens on large-scale farms (like the Iowa one), but they feel like they can't afford anything but. It's a problem. I also believe that meat from a small farm is so much better for you: no hormones, no antibiotics, no stress hormones in the tissue, and maybe the health benefits outweigh the higher cost. You're absolutely right: know where your meat comes from and if you eat meat, buy locally.
Story link. Warning, video is stomach churning, per others: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/iowa-pig-farm-filmed-accused-animal-abuse/story?id=13956009
This is kind of an aside and sorry for that ... but the ABC News site has a horrific "undercover video" story about animal cruelty at a large-scale industrial farm in Iowa. The video is supposed to graphic and very upsetting. Any way this farm supplies pork to a variety of stores including Costco. It's terrible stuff. It's a real argument for, if you want to eat meat, supporting local farmers and being careful who you buy meat from. I don't think any of us, I hope, would want to support this perversion of farming. I do believe people will always want to eat meat, so if we're going to do that, let's support small and family farms that treat their animals well and slaughter them quickly and humanely. I do believe 4-H is part of the small family farm culture and from what most folks post here, sounds like most 4-Hers try to give their animals good lives. If that's all true, I'd rather support that than the horror of places like that industrial farm in Iowa.
I agree with you and do not support animals being mistreated in any way. I do not like buying from big box stores and prefer our little small town store. We know where most of our meat comes from because we support our local youth (4-H) by purchasing their projects at the youth livestock auction. A 4-H animal has had the best possible life, it is not overcrowded in a feed lot, has fresh water and the best grain. In addition they have the care/love from a child that wants it to do it's best. Come fair time they want their animal to win that blue ribbon and hopefully the purple. The sad part of this is that the child who cared for it and loved it for months must part with it.
4-H Mom, thanks! And thanks for sharing. I think although we may disagree on this forum, I appreciate the opportunity to hear other viewpoints. It's good to hear your side and hear that you're proud of your son's accomplishments. It's nice to see parents interested in what their kids do and so involved. Yes, animals get into our hearts, don't they? Thanks again for sharing!
I cannot possibly see 4-H as a tool to desensatize children. It was created to teach children skills as to how to care for animals properly and humanely, and teach them skills that will be used in life. But it doesn't just focus on animals. Sure, I did horses and we didn't kill them in the end, but I had friends who raised cows, and pigs for show. They were sad to see them go but they were also very proud as to how well they had rasied that animal. How healthy it was and that it was goign to feed a family, or a few. There's nothing wrong with it. 4-H was not just based on animal raising, it also focused on a lot of other life and career skills. Vegitarians and Vegans who are against killing animals for consumption for the simple reason that "killing is bad" are retarded and extreamly uninformed. The kids who participate in the 4-H program end up being far more well-rounded than the kids that sit in front of the computer and television all day. At least 4-H encourages the child, whatever program they've chosen to participate in, to go out and learn something outside of technology. Maybe get some fresh air and make friends outside the unrelenting cyber-world of Facebook, "farmville", and any other ridiculous website that has sucked america's children back indoors it seems perminantely
Thanks so much for saying that! I totally agree. I can't stand the way kids are all cooped up inside playing video games. They need to be outside playing with their friends. Getting some sun!
4-H Mom - I see my earlier comment and I can see where it probably sounded, well, insensitive toward you. My apologies. You are probably a great mom who loves her kids and wants the best for them. I typed quickly and didn't review what I meant. I apologize for that. Although I was in 4-H and lived on a farm, for me, I could never make my child sell what has become a pet. To me, and this is MY opinion, that seems insensitive. That's my opinion. When I express an opinion, I'm not saying you're a terrible person, so I'm sorry if it appeared to be that way. However, per this forum, I do wish people wouldn't just assume anyone who disagrees with what they do is someone who's never lived on a farm or been in 4-H. We can have lived on farms and been in 4-H and still disagrees with aspects of the organization. Thanks for caring about your children - it's very clear that all the moms who have posted on this form dearly love their children. No debate there!
thatis .......apology accepted! I didn't make him sell his market animal, the animal that just happened to earn him that so sought after purple ribbon.When he started this project he knew that selling him was going to be the end result. As much as he was saddened by that he was committed to what he started. I admire him for seeing it through, this country has forgotten what it means to give your word or to finish what you start. The minute things get a little uncomfortable people bale. He will be a better person for being the winner that he is and not a quitter like so many. He did a very brave thing saying good-bye to an animal that we all truly loved!!!!!!!!
Guess what, 4-H mom? I grew up on a farm AND was in 4-H. I'm sorry that expressing my opinion causes you to hurl insults. Hope you can learn how to debate with others some day like an adult.
thatis – You have no idea what you are talking about I have lived on a Farm my entire life and have loved every animal that has ever crossed our property line. I cried just as much as my son but only on the inside... I'm not about to match wits with a moron, so get educated in the ag world or get a life!!
I don't think anyone is saying broadly that 4-H is bad, Sam Z, just raising points about this one aspect of it.
4-H teaches life lessons and gives kids a project to call there own. Just because it doesn't envolve a ball, doesn't mean it is a bad thing. I could talk about a long list of things that 4-H brings to the table, but I will stop here.
4-Mom: Per your posting, "If you would of saw the tears rolling down my son's face as he loaded his animal into the holding pen after the livestock sale..."
I would say you're the one who's desensitized, not him.
First off this article is a joke and sickens me. The problem is the fact people dont do their own research on a subject so a person will read this and have no idea of the truth and will ASSUME this is true. Which is COMPLETELY wrong. I am a 4-H leader I have been in the program for over 16 yrs. Tell me how many kids at the age of 16 were getting up at 5a.m. and taking care of there lambs and steers? Not many but My brother and I were EVERYDAY. Just so You know most of the 4-H animals in our county are auctioned and then get donated to meals on wheels to help feed people who cannot cook for themselves. So animals are not being killed in vain they are helping others live. I am not desenitized but I understand life and my children will learn to respect any animals the same way I was taught.
WHo is the author of this ridiculous article and why isnt their name posted in bold letters underneath the article? I personally would like to know and I am sure millions of other 4-Hers would too. Since 1902 4-H has helped MILLIONS of students across the nation get out of the streets, turn their lives around, and succeed in numerous activites. As an active 4-Her for 9 years now I would like to say that 4-H has taught me valuable life skills. My family owns a goat farm and I have been showing since the 2nd grade and every year when it comes time to get my new show goat I become attached to my show goat and they become apart of the family. I would NEVER be okay with my goat being slaudered nor would any of my fellow 4-Her's with their animals. No matter if you show a goat, cow, chicken, lamb, pig, or horse it takes a lot of work and a lot of time spent with the animal, time that you become attached, not time spent planning to kill them. CNN you should be ashamed of yourselves. You say your home is Atlanta, Georgia (and it may be physically wise) but emotionally wise it IS NOT because Georgia 4-H has over 100,000 kids in it and if you truely call Georgia your home you wouldnt have written this ridiculous article.
I'm so sick of tree hugging, bug eating liberals trying to shove thier lifestyles down my throat. If you would of saw the tears rolling down my son's face as he loaded his animal into the holding pen after the livestock sale you would no way say that these kids are desensitized!!!!! They love the animals that they have cared for but also know the purpose that they have, which is to be part of the food chain. I don't tell you to stay out of the trees so don't try to give me an opinion on something that you obivously know very little or nothing about!!!!!
I am sorry, but i love 4-h, and it oonly teaches us children to be strong. I am 12 and i LOVE every second of 4-h, and this is bull crap.
People, people, people ... are you reading the article? It merely brings up an aspect of 4-H and then shows opinions for and against that aspect.
David: Yes, people will disagree with you and express their opinion. That's not interfering with your right to eat meat, as you so dramatically put it.
And some of you 4-H'ers are acting pretty darn hateful yourselves, with your rude, loud comments.
Apparently, you do not know anything about 4-H. I am a teenager and I'm in 4-H in Kansas. It's a lot more than just livestock. I've learned so much and how to work hard at something. 4-H is fun. So know you're facts before you write an article about 4-H and stop acting like an IDIOT. Bye! :) BTW, I LOVE 4-H and this is a bunch of baloney.
Whoever thinks 4-H is a bad program for kids needs to recheck their factss & talk to differant people. Its a wonderful program that I was lucky & blessed to a part of when I was growing up. I used to be very shy as a kid but because of 4-H & the people in it I was able to grow & learn from that. There's so many differant things kids can learn about. Anywhere from raising animals to understanding how bills get passed. 4-H has been around since 1902. That's over 100 years. If it was such a bad thing it never would have lasted as long as it has.
All I have to say is WOW!!!
The first time I read this article I was so shocked that I had to read it again just to grasp the concept that 4-H "desensitizes" kids. Who comes up with these ideas? For all those so called "haters" out there, how about you go to your local fair sometime or even go to a local club meeting and actually get your facts straight about 4-H before you go bad talking 4-H. There is more to this organization then just animals. If you have even been to a fair before, you might of seen something we 4-Her's like to call our hard, damn work such as woodworking projects, leadership posters, horticulture projects and photography exhibits. These are only a FRACTION of what a 4-Her can work on all year. Do people REALLY think that 4-H is all about killing the beloved animals that 4-Her's such as myself took years to raise? What the hell is going through peoples mind these days? Yes, some 4-Her's do sell their animals at livestock auctions HOWEVER that only is a fraction of the 4-Her's, the other 4-Her's will TAKE HOME their animal to TAKE CARE of them and FEED them to RAISE them to show them next year at fair and the YEAR AFTER THAT! In my state, my county has one of the largest fairs in the state, and not even half of the 4-Her's even participate in livestock projects. So what does that mean to all ya "haters" out? That maybe 4-H is a little more then livestock? I think so. Maybe one of the most important lesson that is taught and learned in 4-H by everyone is LEADERSHIP. I will be a junior in college this fall and the leadership that were instilled in me those years ago is still being used as of today as we speak.
For some final thoughts on this subject, a question comes to mind to all you "haters". What did you people do with you time back when you were younger, and in school? Please tell me that you were not hanging out with friends at the mall spending your PARENTS money? Oh wait! While you doing this, I was working hard on my 4-H projects with other 4-Her's showing my hardwork and being rewarded for it as well. SO you can say that I was getting a head start on my life while you were wasting yours in a mall. 4-H even led me to the college that I am currently attending. Hmmm....4-H, education, leadership? HOW can it be that these three words fit so well together? But hey, go ahead and think what you want. But I will say this, I will now and FOREVER SUPPORT 4-H and you can bet your ass that my children, when I have them, will be a 4-Her.
All of you who don't like it feel perfectly free to not eat meat. I'm fine with that. But as for myself, and my family. Bring on the steak! Enjoy your vegetarian life, but mind your own damn business and don't interfere with my rights to eat it.
This article makes me very furious! Infact I am a very active 4-Her in Georgia, and Georgia is one of the leading animal showing states in the US. To know this is what others think of 4-Hers is outragious. Even though this will be my 1st year showing a goat most of my friends either show an animal for 4-H or FFA. I nor my fellow 4-H members have ever been taught to be known as an "animal killer". Killing animals for no reason is not the reason for showing animals. For people to think the 4-Hers and their famillies do not get emotionally attatched to the animals is wrong. Naming the animal, talking to it, playing with it in the pasture, visiting it, bathing it, and getting ready to show all it has learned from you at the next show is what raising an animal is all about. We almost think of the animals as another member of the family. Having an animal is a way of learning with life time experiences. 4-H's motto is "Making the best better" through public speaking, community service, leadership, team building skills, safety, health, agriculture awareness, outdoor activites, and freindships made. Before every 4-H activity the pledge, "I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to large service, and my health to better living, for my club, my community, my country, and my WORLD" is said because all 4-Hers are dedicated to this wonderful and healpful club each and everyday. All 4-H leaders are the best learders a child could ever want because of the life lessons they teach. The leaders never know how much of an impact they are going to make on one certain child for the rest of their live, so they teach the 4-Hers necessities in order to succeed in life. This article was not written for people to comment about what foreign country they are from, or what they like and dont like about America and their meat, or how clean the slauderhouses and hospitals are, but for the responses of the people who DO know what they are talking about because they DO have a wonderful 4-H background. Again, 4-H does not appreciate it when CNN makes a post about something they know NOTHING about!!!
Well put!
This is absolutley outragious.. I am an active 4-Her and NEVER HAVE I EVER been taught or told that it is okay to kill animals or that we shouldnt care that our show animal is going to be slaughtered. 4-H is more about community service and public speaking with the agricultural impact and experience added into it. So to CNN if you dont know what your talking about keep your mouth shut.
It seems sad to profit from someone who's "there for you when you have no one to talk to." Seems like a bit of a betrayal, sorry.
4-H is not for killing animals. It is a learning and leadership filled experience that helps kids to get out tof the house and learn about their world and community.They do projects that are fun and important to the future. Animals just happens to be one of them. We raise and show animals because they teach us responsiblity. We do get emotionally attached sometimes, but what is wrong with that? We have feelings, and animals are there for us when we have no one to talk to. They also provide college money for us when we sell them. And it promotes the meat industry, which provides food for millions of people. Eat meat! The west wasn't won on salad...
Are people actually reading this article? Yes, the headline is provocative and probably offensive. But it's posed as a question, not a statement, if that helps The article then goes on to present multiple viewpoints, pro and con. Do you think every single editorial piece should agree with your viewpoint?
Yes the title is offensive to most 4-Hers. It is kind of like saying parents kill their children or teachers kill their students, but proposing it as a question. This is just wrong and rude!
Your headline and first statement are very unfair. Get the facts of 4-H, for starters, and then interview some of the fabulous, outstanding, mature, repsonsible, respectful, caring 4-H youth and families. We'll see who talks about the values they learn from 4-H, the lifeskills that make them successful, contributing adults. go eat your vegetables and hope they have no feelings !
Wilson, I hope you realize that all-caps means you're yelling. Hard to have civil discourse with a lot of yelling :).
It's interesting how some people accuse anyone who disagrees with their point of view of not having been in 4-H or having grown up in a city ... well, I was in 4-H and I grew up on a farm. It's best not to label people - you'll often find that those labels don't stick. Also, I don't think disagreeing with anyone's point of view is being disrespectful or dissing kids (unless I missed a not nice post). People here, mostly with some exceptions, aren't attacking lifestyles, just expressing opinions and perspectives. Also, from a recent USDA census: "...Americans are still overwhelmingly eating food produced in massive industrial farms." I believe that most food is grown by large-scale industrial-complex farms, not family farms, unfortunately :(.
As a current 4-Her, I find this article was written by someone who has NEVER experienced the 4-H way nor have they spent time showing animals. Although I haven't showed animals myself, I've had many friends who have.. and yes they DID alaughter the animals to eat or took them to an auction to sell, but that doesn't mean they didn't put hours upon hours upon hours of work into raising and treating their animals right. These 4-Hers that show animals have dedicated THEIR time to raise the animals. The 4-H's stand for Hands, Heart, Health, and Head.. and obviously you have NEVER recited the 4-H pledge as 4-Hers do at EVERY event that they participate in. "I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service and my health to better living for my club, my community, my country, and MY WORLD". 4-Hers do not ONLY show animals but they also participate in other activities such as archery or poultry judging or forestry judging.. they also do community service and participate in services to the military kids and other organizations. The 4-H motto is "To make the Best BETTER" and by preparing these 4-Hers with life skills as the 4-H club does, the world will become a BETTER place. But if people like YOU (who wrote this article) ahve NO CLUE what you are talking about nor have you experienced the 4-H club you have NO RIGHT to say what was said especially if you DONT know the FULL and ENTIRE story! The 4-H club's mission statement is The mission of Georgia 4-H is to assist youth in acquiring knowledge, developing life skills, and forming attitudes that will enable them to become self-directing, productive and contributing members of society. This mission is accomplished, through "hands on" learning experiences, focused on agricultural and environmental issues, agriculture awareness, leadership, communication skills, foods and nutrition, health, energy conservation, and citizenship and by raising and showing animals 4-Hers are learning life skills of RESPONSIBILITY and CARING. So as a Georgia 4-H NorthEast District Senior Board Member for 2011-2012 I take this article very seriously and find it very disappointing that someone who has NO IDEA what 4-H is about could write anarticle that says 4-H "desensitizes" children.... Do you think that you have put hours of work into raising an animal, naming it, becoming friends with it.... do YOU think that YOU could go get it slaughtered and it eat?? No probably not because YOU dont understand the hard and tiring work that goes into raising an animal for show. I respect EVERY child that shows an animal because iI know I couldnt do it. So I guess if 4-H so called "desensitizes" children I guess FFA does as well. Because children of the FFA program also show animals and do the same as many 4-H families. So before someone else opens their mouth and doesnt know the full or enitre story and has NEVER experienced the 4-H experience I would suggest you research some more! Because I know that the 4-H family takes things like this VERY seriously and we don't appreciate people like YOU, who have NO EARTHLY idea what we do in the program to give their idiotic and DESENSITIVE opinion.
A very CONCERNED and Open-minded Georgia 4-Her,
Wilson
NorthEast District Senior Board Member
I am not here to judge or pass judgement on anyone. The joys of being American is that we all have the right to choose our own path, our family chooses to eat meat your family may not and thats ok. 4-H teaches kids about all types of lifestyles and careers not just livestock/farming. I don't think that the majority of you have a problem with the 4-H organization you have a problem with animal agriculture.
American farmers and ranchers raises the safest and cheapest food supply in the world, for many of us (farm families) allowing our children to exhibit an animal gives them an opportunity to use the skills they have learned in everyday life on the farm. I don't expect 98% of the American population to understand since you are not involved in food production and its been generations since most of your families have but i do expect for you to be respectful of farm and ranch children. I don't degrade your children and their organizations for going against my beliefs, so please don't degrade my child.
Everything lives and everything dies...that is the circle of life. My son knows that our market animals have a purpose and that purpose is to feed people. This knowledge empowers him to understand where his food comes from and the hard work and dedication that goes into American agriculture.
Tammy, I would disagree with your statement: "You buy your food at the grocery store, but it doesn't come from there. Someone grew it, or raised it and processed it. Chances are, that someone isn't a member of a factory farm."
I believe most of the meat we buy from the grocery store is from a factory farm. Buying locally is a different matter. Buying meat at a grocery store isn't usually buying locally.
@thepoint I agree buying meat at the grocery store isn't the same as buying local however our beef ends up on those supermarket shevlves and I am not a factory farmer, in fact 98% of U.S. farms are family farms!
The problem here is not 4-H. It is the way we people think of our food. We are not thankful enough for it or even realize the practices that are beiing implemented in the raising and production of it. We have allowed the process to become factory-like because we need to eat and not enough of us are willing to participate in or support local food production because we can't "afford" otherwise. Many vegetarians are vegetarians because they believe in the "rights" of animals without properly questioning how their choices affect animals also. There is also such a thing as factory farming in crops. How many animals loose habitat to endless fields of soybeans, corn, wheat, oats, lettuce and produce? You say you eat organicly? That does not mean that it wasn't grown large scale and that animals didn't loose their homes or suffer as a result. The plain fact is any choice should require thought and care when it comes to our food. I support ethical food choices whether or not you eat meat or are a vegetarian. We should be helping all organizations that has a responsiblility for teaching our kids by informing them of changes and providing the correct material so that our kids are much more responsible in their choices than we were. Supporting the small farmers to give them more power will end the power of the factory farms and large processing companies that make slaughter a hideous thing for the animals and makes all our food hazardous to us. The only way we can do this is by supporting those programs that will foster responsible smalll farmers who care about the way their animals, crops and the surrounding habitat is treated. The only way we can do that is to be much more thankful to our lord (whoever we whorship is), the earth, and the animals for their sacrifices to help us humans to survive. In the end, ...no matter what our choices are, we humans will affect some animal in a potentially negative way. Even you who are a vegetarian and believe in the rights of animlas. It is time we ALL realized this and worked together to make things better for all. Each time you sit down to eat give thanks to the animals who made the sacrific for you... whether you are a omnivore or a vegetarian. Then support the farmers and programs who can and do make a difference for the better in the lives of ALL those animals and in the end ...us.
As a senior 4-H member, I believe this is all a bunch of lies. I have attended an agricultural high school, where we raise animals, and yes, they go to slaughter. Its a fact of life. Humans were developed to eat meat, such as dogs and cats. 4-H is not the ONLY organization who sends animals to slaughter. Animals are raised, and yes, they go to food. BUT ITS HOW LIFE IT RUN AND WE TEACH KIDS ABOUT AGRICULTURE AND HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS. Not all 4-H clubs are animal related, many are arts and crafts, horse clubs (which do NOT sell animals to slaughter) and science related. Kids get attached, but they learn about life. Its all about learning the values of life: being born, growing up, and serving a purpose. 4-H is not all about slaughter, and I would never want a younger member who does not want to attend a slaughter house, go to one. There are 23 kids + adults in my club, no one has ever been to a slaughter house. I would like to attend a slaughter house, to LEARN about agriculture and LEARN how it works. 4-H is an educational program, same as FFA and school. NOT ALL 4-H CLUBS SLAUGHTER ANIMALS. Blaming 4-H for this is just another way for PETA to 'make them selves look good' because they think they are doing a good deed...but they are not. I agree with someone above me, if God didn't want us to live, and eat, animals wouldn't be here.
I just farted on a Vegan,She is turning green. I think she is dead. +1 for Cows–Eat More Chiken.
Both of my sons are in 4-H, and I am an advisor. I will be the first to admit that yes, you do get attached. Last year as I went with my son to take his market rabbits to the processor truck, I cried. This year I watched a little girl cry and pet her steer as it was being driven away in the processor's trailer. It sucks and it hurts a person's heart.
But we are omnivores. We eat meat. My family even processes some of it's own rabbits and we buy a cow from a local farmer. My sons are taught that before you can eat an animal, you must have respected that animal's sacrifice. You must treat that animal with the utmost respect and care, because it is giving its life to you.
I teach my 4-H kids to be very respectful of the life they are responsible for (in their market animals). They realize that these animals are giving up their lives to feed another. Our animals are treated very humanely by our 4-H members. In fact, animals were injured at our fair this week. Not by 4-H members or FFA members, but by people who called us "ignorant hicks." I don't think that it is those of us there with projects who are the ignorant ones.
Some of you need to realize that a market animal is not treated like a pet. I certainly wouldn't let a steer sleep in my bed in the same way that I let my boxer sleep in my bed! Pets are pampered. Market animals are groomed, fed, kept in clean and safe environments and prepared for harvest.
It is your responsibility to know where your food comes from. You buy your food at the grocery store, but it doesn't come from there. Someone grew it, or raised it and processed it. Chances are, that someone isn't a member of a factory farm. Respect and get to know your local farmers. We aren't cold blooded killers and we aren't raising our children to be that way. We are raising them to be responsible, educated and caring members of the society and guardians of this earth. 4-H is a major help to us. It is your ignorance that is showing when you denounce this program without having ever experienced it.
This is really disappointing since I'm a 4-her and have just raised animal for fair you do get attached to the animals you raise and it is hard to see them go
I am a current and 8 year 4-H member. One thing I cannot stand is that with the exception of the small section at the bottom, this article makes it seem like all that we learn in 4-H is about the Agriculture industry! For all of the parents saying "I will never enroll my child in 4-H" please know that there is SO much more to this amazing program ! yes, I do show animals, but I show them through FFA. My main 4-H project is leadership and I have been able to educate over 2,500 kids about the dangers of drug, alcohol, and tobacco abuse through a program called "Health Rocks!" Being in 4-H has changed my life in ways that no other organization could have.
I'm an actual 4-H member....I show pigs & goats and I do not raise them to slaughter them.....They are not just animals they are MY PETS!!! And I know that god put them on this earth for food... What do you think Bacon,Steak,& Pork Chops that you buy from the grocery store comes from?? Just going to say that 4-H is an awesome club that children can be apart of and have fun!!! I love 4-H!
Dear CNN,
Get your facts straight!
Go talk to National 4-H Headquarters inside the United States Department of Agriculture in Washington DC. We are a program that is STILL run by the USDA!
FOCUS ON THE GOOD OF 4-H and not just about the slaughtering of animals!
Some people need to learn where food comes from!!! The fresh meat in plastic does not come from the back of walmart!!!! 4-h'ers = VERY good cared for livestock = responsibility = slaughtering = fresh juicy meat!!! Circal of life!!!! What do you want us to do with all the animals in the usa?!?! Because letting them all run lose is not an option! ! Get your facts stright!!! Please do some research first. You are picking the a fight with the wrong group!
Here is what I think about the whole thing. I was in a 4-H program and I am now a 4-H leader. I just earned my B.S. of Animal Science and live on a farm and raise show pigs and Boer goats that I show all across the mid-west. 4-H gave me the chance to learn about where food came from and how to properly take care of animals. These animals get some of the best care, always spend money on the best feed and best products for them! It also teaches children and members many other factors in life how to be responsible for what they are doing and teaching them life lessons! It has currently lead me to my current career path working with animals doing what I love, caring for them. But livestock have a purpose on earth, FOOD! If God didn't want us to eat meat then the livestock would not be here.
I wonder how many of these people who are defending food animals support abortion? Most of the ones I know do. What a bunch of hypocrites.
I think all of you need to ask yourself why you are so opposed to an organization that teaches responsiblity (i.e. taking a project and finishing it), manners (community service projects) and loyalty (the pledge to the US and 4-H flag is said at every meeting). 4-H is not about killing animals, it is about building better leaders for tomorrow. If you are a vegan and oppose the slaughtering of animals, please find another outlet for publicity. Trashing a worthy organization just to raise some publicity for your campaign is selfish.
First, I would just like to ask everyone to think through their responses before posting. Name-calling or bashing others beliefs is no way to win or even solve an argument. That being said I would like to state that I am a former 4-H member and meat eater and thanks to all of my 4-H and FFA training (I was a state officer) I have made it into vet school and plan to either be a food animal practitioner or work in food safety. I don’t know that I ever would have made it this far if it weren’t for both of the previously listed organizations. As a child in 4-H, I raised both market hogs and market steers. I also participated on the cattle working team and livestock judging team, as well as Home-Ec type baking, arts, crafts and sewing. Through 4-H, I learned work ethic, something not commonly seen in children not involved in extracurricular activities. The animals I raised were sold for food at our auction, and I even ate some of them. This is not to say that I was DESENSITIZED, if that were the case I would be numb and devoid of all feelings about where my animals were headed when I put them on the trailer. No, in fact I knew exactly where my animals were going as I had seen the facilities and knew the process from stunning the animals into an unconscious state with either captive bolt guns or electric shock (both a very quick process) to exsanguinations to the actual steaks being cut on the ban saw. Knowing that my animals would eventually be eaten by someone, hopefully appreciative of where they came from, was well worth raising them, not to mention the experience I gained. As far as emotional attachment goes, I only cried over one animal in my entire 4-H career. This was because we were taught to view our animals as a FOOD project, not as pets. The one animal I did treat as a pet was my first steer, Smokey. He was born on our farm from the cow my dad gave me when I was six. I raised him, trained him to lead and set his feet like a champ. I even got to the point that I could ride him. At the fair, he surprised us all by winning Grand Champion and selling for $4.00/lb at 1225 lbs. Needless to say that night, I sat by him balling. Our fair staff is awesome in that they load the animals at night, so we won’t have to walk them to the trailer, then they take the halters and put them away for us. Thus, the next morning, I came in and Smokey was gone and that’s when I knew that he would be the best tasting steak ever, simply because he was amazing at everything. However, from that point on my steers were names T-bone, Porter(house), and Hamburger to help keep it all in perspective. As I mentioned above, my animals sold for a fair amount and the money I earned from my projects went into a college fund. Additionally, with this record-keeping, money management, animal husbandry skils, motivation and determination taught by 4-H and FFA, I was able to apply for and receive many scholarships helping to pay for my entire undergraduate college career. I am now in Veterinary school and continue to show my respect for animals as I know they have their purpose in life, whether it be breeding seedstock, dairy production, meat, etc. In my class of veterinary students there are some vegetarians and one vegan (even though he buys meat for his dog to eat), and I respect their decision. One doesn’t like the texture of meat, one can’t eat it because of certain GI implications, and one just doesn’t want to eat it. The one that is a closet meat eater, kind of bothers me, but only because of the bashing I received for eating meat. Needless to say the day I caught him in a restaurant eating a bacon cheeseburger, ended all bashing from his end. It is free choice, it is not wrong to eat meat after all in Mark 7:17-23, Jesus declared all food clean. That being said it is still a nutrient dense food and the comparison of a 3oz daily serving of meat is still more economical that buying the needed amount of spinach (which has also led to E. coli) to provide equal nutrition. I am a firm supporter of 4-H and FFA, and would like to share my storing with CNN and all those commenting on the article.
To answer the question, no, 4-H does not desensitize kids to killing. I was one of those 4-H members who raised meat animals for the fair. I treated them with TLC, just as all farmers I know treat their animals. I always cried when I sold my animals, but nobody told me I had to sell them. We later visited them in the slaughterhouse, hanging in the freezer. It's the circle of life. I've seen animals slaughtered, and every slaughterhouse I've been to does it humanely. I don't like watching, but I have watched. The animal is guided into position and killed instantly–no torture, no pain, no reluctance because the animal "knows what's coming." These animals were treated humanely and with compassion all their lives, and when their life was ended, it was done with compassion so humans can eat. People like having a cause, so they rally against farmers and make up stories about torture so they can feel good about what they're doing. Livestock abuse would be horrible–if it happened–but it does not happen at any of the many farms I have visited. I’ve been allowed to wander freely and take photos freely. It's interesting how people who know nothing about 4-H–or farming–can condemn those of us who do. Next time, write about something you know something about. If kids are desensitized to killing, it's because of the dozens of killing scenes they see on TV every week.
Anyone who truly believes that 4H teaches children to hate doesn't know anything about it. That is not only moronic but naive. I have nieces that have raised pigs to show, sell, and eat in 4H. These girls love those pigs. They spoil them, give them attention and adore them. How is that considered insensitive? Yes, they do understand that the pigs will be slaughtered to eat. That my friends is called the circle of life. I consider it much better than growing up not knowing where your meat comes from. I once had neighbors who had a foster child from NY. She was so thoroughly disgusted when she found out where meat came from and refused to eat any form of meat again. It astounded me that she didn't know where it came from considering she was 15 years old! What kind of idiots seriously believe that 4 H teaches kids to hate and not value life. In fact, these kids probably have much higher personal values than most other kids.
I'm in 4-H.
I show dairy cows, no we don't "sell" them for beef.
I've seen cows shipped off for beef, (not the show cows) yes I cry. Its our emotions and we can not control them.
You basically state in this awful story that kids can control there emotions. Hmm?
In the paragraph "To many, 4-H Clubs are all about nurturing sweet little calves, adorable children winning ribbons, urban garden patches and proud future farmers grooming prized pigs for show...." Yes, its what 4-H is about. Being proud of all the hard work you put into a project.
and saying that we are "cooled blooded unemotional animal killers is completely wrong.
Whatever City Slicker wrote this saying that how we don't care about an animal being killed should get there facts in order.
because clearly they have no idea what there talking about.
CNN. You fail me again.
I find it horrifyingly offensive that through the hard work of myself and other farmers, and through technologies developed over thousands of years to accommodate the needs of a ever-growing populace, so many people have been able to grow so distanced from where their food comes from, and have such luxury that they can make shallow political statements out of a vital necessity of life- namely, their food.
Sorry, but if God didn't want us to eat animals he wouldn't have made 'em out of MEAT. Keep your self-righteous vegetarian religion to yourselves.
>accusing someone of pushing religion on someone in the same sentence as telling me what "god" put me here for
Please use a little bit of metacognition and try to realize when you are being a hypocrite BEFORE you hit post.
However, to argue your actual point, we're made of meat too. Why isn't cannibalism okay?
I haven't eaten animal flesh in many years. Why would I?
"those of you who are considering yourselves "sentitized" to the killing of animals" (correction)
While we are hanging all these 4-H clubs out to dry, we should put farmers and their families on the chopping block. I was not in an animal husbandry 4-H club, but oh dear... I was the daughter of a small family farmer, who raised pigs and cows to feed our family. You know what? I remember their names. Yes. The food we eat once had a name. Bossy, Sukey, Whiskers, Squealer, Willber, ... all the old favorites. My dad tried naming one of the cows "T-Bone" to help him remember the end goal – but it didn't work – T-Bone was his favorite. Dad would sit in the pasture on a rock, just because he knew T-Bone would saunter up behind him and gently bump him off the rock, trying to use him like he was a scratching post. And... while all we little girls would go off for the day when Dad's friends would come over and help him out with difficult task of butchering his animals – I know that he was torn to pieces inside each time he did it.
Think about it this way, those of you who are considering yourselves "desentisized to the killing of animals... Which would be worse – to turn our heads, close our eyes and walk blissfully down our grocery store aisles of prepackaged animal parts – while cows and other livestock are mistreated on slaughterfarms and houses... or to raise these animals, on your own property, in your own yard – giving them love, kindness and respect as they live on family farms where children are also being raised – to love, respect and honor the animals that will eventually nourish their own families one day?
Beefburger: So... your argument is that you are not gifted with higher reasoning and the ability to choose but rather have the intelligence of an amoeba and exist on instinct alone and all humans should be like you? Tell me, do you have the self-control to choose what you hump? If so, you should realize that means that you choose what you eat too. If you wanna eat meat, whatever, but don't blame biology when you have a mind to work with and it is your CONSCIOUS CHOICE for animals to die for your menu. Lions on the Savanna don't have that luxury now do they? And what in the name of Abe Vigoda does the concept of a "soul" have to do with anything? I don't believe souls exist, in humans or animals, and I don't give a flying rat's butt if you do or not, that has nothing to do with the fact that everything has a right to live. Honestly, I can't tell if you're trolling or if you really are such a neanderthal. I don't dislike meat-eaters... but I get the feeling if I ever met you I'd probably dislike *you*, and it has nothing to do with your diet.
See, 'cause you're a jerk, that's what I was going for there. Just in case you didn't get that.
BTW, if you do NOT think that the chickens and the pigs, or humans for that matter, have souls. Then the argument is rather pointless from the beginning is it not?
Unless everyone in the world is going to suddenly change to a granola knoshing hippie with Morrisey whining from every radio, then yes, animals will be killed for consumption. DEAL WITH IT.
Do you think lions give a flip how a wildabeast feels when they are feasting on it? Unless we all suddenly evolve to creatures of pure energy we will continue to consume to survive.
Has our society so devolved to think that animals have spirits? But wait, these same people refuse to believe in God, but yet they think a chicken or pig has a soul.
In the same light we have placed ourselves as being equal to animals but yet superior to them at the same time. Ok, the next time I am on the losing end of the food chain I will ask the creature to please take pity on his fellow being as we are all the same under the fur and skin.
My favorite bumper sticker: Vegetarian-Native American word for "poor hunter"
Sorry Lady Gaga, meat dress aside, baby I, and BILLIONS of people, were born this way.
Join my organization. PETA – People for the Eating of Tasty Animals or else let your eyes start to evolve to looking from the sides of your head, rather than the predators' front facing eyes. Let all of your teeth turn to cud chewers rather than have canine cuspids.
It seems to me that CNN sees the world through some funny glasses, they seem to think that the majority of people want be married, gay, vegetarian, illegal immigrants with a substance abuse problem. You really need to stop hiring from the Hunter S. Thompson School of Journalism.
As a vegetarian who won't even kill bugs, the heirarchy of dislike goes like this for me:
Most disliked are the psychopaths that really don't care one bit about animal suffering and sacrifice. You know the type I mean... You show them pictures of the atrocities that go on in factory farming conditions and they laugh and say "Mmm, I could totally go for a bucket of extra crispy right now!" These are the types that hunt for sport and legitimately see nothing wrong with killing something just to turn its head into a decoration for your study. They're a step away from becoming sadistic murderers of human victims – lack of empathy spans species, you know.
Next are the people who will gladly eat a hamburger but don't WANT to be reminded that it was once a living animal. This makes up the vast majority of our society. I think separation from your food source is MUCH more dangerous. Animals are not products.
Next come organizations like this that teach that killing is just the way it should be. I don't think the idea is inherently bad, just the way it's presented. How about giving the kids options? This is as bad as sending them to Jesus camp – it's brainwashing. Do not get me wrong, I am a reasonably intelligent human being, not a banner waving MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY-er, and I am well aware that biologically speaking young children NEED to eat meat as their developing bodies need the protein and fat content. But when you join 4-H you don't stay that young. How about spending one season doing their animal nonsense and the next season cultivating soy and learning how they turn it into the vegetarian foods they make? You know, exploring OTHER lifestyle options rather than slaughtering for food? How about a lesson dedicated to learning about factory farms and why they are bad? 4-H has potential but the way it's set up now it does seem like they're desensitizing kids, not to the killing itself so much as the fact that that's just "how it is."
The least disliked, in my opinion, are the hunters that kill for their own personal use and eat what they kill, and ideally make use of the rest of the animal as well. I support them.
As you can see, there are worse things than 4-H. That's not to say it's anywhere NEAR great as it stands, but there are much worse things than kids learning about the sacrifice that goes into their food. In fact, I still say that unless you have personally killed your food animal, you should not be ALLOWED to eat it. If you can look something in the eye and still be able to take its life just because you want a nice tasty steak, then do it. Me... I'll make due with non-meat protein and be able to look at myself in the mirror with my head held high.
KP – If you would read my previous comment up just a little higher than yours, then you will see that 4H and FFA are about so much more. Those with their negative comments are focusing on such a small portion of what these organizations are about, and their postings could not be further from the truth. FFA & 4H do exactly what you speak of in your comments. First off, many times they do have the option to send their animal projects to auction or to take them back home with them. They are not always sent to the chopping block, options are in place, ( we have kept several of the kids projects) secondly both 4H and FFA teach a well rounded education, just as you talk about. They learn how to grow productive organic gardens, and they can actually compete with their vegatable they grow, they learn about forestry, soil and plant conservation , foraging crops, and yes even about soy cultivation . In FFA, the schools actually have a wide variety of classes to choose from. There are many kids in FFA that will never raise an animal project, for various reasons. They may not have a place to raise it, they may have alergies that prohibit animal contact, etc. so there are many other avenues to participate. The classes teach them grain and plant identification and soil preparation among other useful tools, and they actually have judging competitions where they take the aquired classroom knowledge and compete against other schools. They also learn about the Dairy industry and how to improve the quality of milk production for human consumption. I know because my kids not only raised the livestock, which my husband and I still do today, but they were on Poultry judging teams. Grain identification teams. Debate teams, etc. Please, people, do not believe everything someone spills out of their mouths. Check the facts before you so quickly choose to throw it under the bus. As with any blog, there are some comments that just go off in the wrong direction. Whether a person chooses to be a vegatarian or a consumer of meat is irrelivant here. The facts just need to be accurate and from the beginning they have not been. Abundent Blessings.
Let me start by saying THANK YOU for a well-thought out, respectful response. You don't see nearly enough of that on the internet (even I got a little testy after Beefburger's unnecessarily aggressive post, and I apologize for that). Now then, I would like to say that I am THRILLED to hear that 4-H is branching out. I grew up in a tiny little farming town and 4-H was huge among the kids I went to school with, even though I was never personally a member. The 4-H I knew back then through those people with whom I attended school was much like I described in my post, and I had a friend who actually dropped out because she didn't wanna see her animals go to slaughter, so I don't know if they gave her an option or not. Our area was one of those be-like-everyone-else-or-be-ostricized kinds of small towns, and it seemed there was very little room for any opinion other than COWS=MEAT. MMM. Most of the 4-H members, however, did seem awfully callous about the animals THEY RAISED being slaughtered, to the point where I actually occasionally overheard them JOKING about it. None of them ever talked about anything but the raising of food animals, even though I had a feeling that they did do SOME other things. And I got a lot of the same comments from them that I have been reading on this article, such as "God put animals here for humans to eat," which I think is so f-ing arrogant it's up there with the geocentric solar system theory... but I digress. In any case, if the modern 4-H experience is as diverse as you say it is, AWESOME! And I could be pretty easily persuaded to give the organization the beneit of the doubt, considering I am not opposed to the possibility that it was just my area that sucked – those guys were a-holes anyway.
I was speechless, (then pissed as hell) when I saw Heather Kings comments on 4H and FFA. My girls are 35 and 29 and I myself, am a former 4H leader of a club in Texas. I moved out of the city and to a rural area so as to have the opportunity of raising my children in a positive rural enviorement. One that offered the benefits of these great organizations. Apparently many of the people think that WALMART or HEB wave their magic wand and poof more beef and poutlry just fly on the shelves. Sorry folks, it takes a bit more than that. And whomever thinks that these kids do not get attached to the animals they raise,well they are just stupid mindless individuals who know not of what they speak. They are taught that in order to produce the best quality product the animal must be fed properly, wormed regularly kept happy, calm and exercised regularly. Not mis managed, stressed out and ill handled at slaughter. These 4h and FFA youth are the ones that go on to college, major in agribusiness, graduate with a clearer understanding of what will better the industry and assist in integrating more humane and rational care in respect to the feed lots and slaughter facilities. Now does everyone understand that animal husbandry is but a mere fraction of what 4h is turely about. I ran a 135 member 4H that mainly taught about horses and the horse industry. In addition the kids participated in consumer decision making, which teaches them how to shop smartly, spend wisely and be able to explain why their choices are the best economical decision. They participated in the Adopt a highway mile clean up program, where every month they and their family members would go out on the dangerous highways to cleam up all the crap that lazy, careless individuals would rather throw out than take home and throw in their own trash cans. After this experience. not a one of those kids would ever toss even a gum wrapper out of a window, because they know how hard they had to work to clean it. I think these are pretty damn good values being taught, thus far. Now lets get into community servicehall we. These kids did not spend their weekends hanging out at the mall, they were at the nursing homes, at the handicapped horse riding facilities, at the community outreach centers volunteering their time, to help people not as fortunante as themselves, again a few more wonderful, life lessons learned. Then lets talk about public speaking opportunities. I have seen 8 and 9 years olds come into the organization scared to death to leave their mothers side, and afraid to open their mouths to even answer a simple question. With some great guidance and wonderful roll models of the jr. leaders in the group, by the end of the year these same kids were standing up in front of their piers, talking about personal experiences, giving little hands on demomstrations and feeling pretty confident in themselves. Yeah I can see where this could have a very negative effect on someone. Hell people get a grip. If you have never walked the walk, then don't talk the talk. About 6 years ago I turned over the reins of my 4H gorup to other responsible parents to carry on the blessing at hand. I have followed 4H my children on facebook, through their high school and college years , on into their careers, their marriages and their parenting challanges and I could not be prouder of the type of WELL ROUNDED young adults that they are. We are talking businessmen and women. Agricultural extension agents. School teachers, small animal and large animal Vets. horse trainers and breeders, commercial poultry breeders and the list goes on and on. I thank God everyday for the life lessons my own children learned from their many years in 4H and FFA. One of my daughters is a vet. tech and dog trainer, and the other one is a small scale dog breeder and trainer of some of the state's top field trial champion laboradors, both handling their businesses in a professional manner that not only benefits the quality of care that the animals receive while in their hands, but the positive manner they are able to communicate with people they do business with. Yep, yet another benefit of those horrible, horrible killing fied orginations you speak of. May God grant you half the wisdom and common sense of a 4h'r.
I'm having trouble understanding just what is "unethical" about eating animals. Animals die and are eaten everyday, usually by other animals. "We are evolved enough to understand that we shouldn't," well, going by your own theories, that's how we "evolved" in the first place, we were animals that kept getting killed by something so we "evolved" to overcome it. So, wouldn't we want to keep consuming animals so they might one day start to realize they need to change and "evolve" too? Bottom line is, it's natural for us to be carnivores, it's part of the eco-system, if we all stopped eating meat the planet would surely find ways to get rid of the extra resources and would probably include us in the extermination. Want to save the planet? EAT MEAT. I'm not too concerned about these "evolved" "ethical" people though, they are already working towards their own extermination (homosexuality, abortion), soon the smart families who can live on their own, growing and raising their own food, and who had 15 kids, will far out number the "evolved."
These guys piss me off.... Just cuz you dont like killing animals, doesn't mean you spread bullshit lies, and BULLSHIT... if these guys that created this stupid ass story were having a meeting, I would come to the meeting with the deer and a rifle and show the little uneducated tree hugging faggots how a hunter kills and skins a deer
The headline on this story is deliberately provocative and pushes buttons needlessly. If anything, 4-H teaches a respect for life and the abilities one can acquire living close to the land. Everybody can't live in a 5th Ave. penthouse without ever knowing where food comes from.
while i can not say i was a 4-H member i know for a fact that 4-H is a great organization espiliay for the younger kids who cant join FFA just yet. go to a local country fair in your state and your area and ask the kids there 4-H project or your SAE (supviosed Ag experince). i am proud to say i was a member of my local FFA Chapter and a member vairous Junior Association...ie. the ANGUS Breed.
thourgh this i have learned that MEAT is GOOD For your Health because its filled with Zinc iron and protien...and while the push to be more vegan or vegatin is growing the way i see it is as long as there are still hungry people in world and as long as farming still goes on and is not rooted out by animal rights activist then there will still be a need to feed the world and our farmers can do that.
those people on who dont know where they food comes from i encourge you to find out, learn more, and become educated take a trip to the county fair, or drive out to a dairy, or beef farm, or even plant just a garden.
what i learn in life and in school i hope to use to help make a better nation for our farmers and my state. if we farmers are ever going to gain ground or proud 4-hers then we need to educate people .
i too have been feedlots and processing plants the plants are spotless and i know that after an animal is killed they clean it all over again safe and satainy.
this thing about naming your cattle i luv having an emtiomal attachment to mine that i show... i sell bulls...the only bull that did not get sold was elvis and he is in our frezzer he was a misbevhing bull and i could not show him so there are expections
but i want people to that organzations like 4-h and FFA are great organizations...FFA taught me so much and made me come out of my shy shell and it can unlock so many doors for any body involed in it
education is key to this battle!!
This topic is just plain stupid. Do you think chicken comes in neat little nugget ball? Not so long ago we did not buy meat in a story .. you had to kill it yourself and clean it and serve it. Housewives HAD to launder clothes (by hand), hang them on lines, sew up torn clothes, make clothes, make bread (every day), make beds, pick and can vegetables, make their own jelly and jam and catsup. The could not afford to buy it. There was NO refrigerator and no electric light. This generation is so spoiled they think everything comes frozen in a bag and just "nuke" it .. or else go out and buy it (and it "comes" ready to eat). You fools. You %%$&## fools. Wake up. (before it is too late)
I am a 4-H Alumni and I remember reading studies that were done about kids that were in 4-H and FFA. These studies show that kids raised in these clubs were less likely to become members of gangs or commit serious crimes as adults. Raising animals is only a small portion of what these kids get out of these clubs. They are taught record keeping, public speaking, and many more things that can help them throughout their adult lives. I would rather my son learn responsibility, patience, and discipline by raising animals for human consumption than to be out doing drugs, running with gangs, and someday possibly killing someone and ending up in prison. Oh and next time you eat a good steak, say thank you to all those 4-H and FFA kids who sold their steers to the local supermarkets for you to eat.
Interesting thread. How about some science to go with the emotion. Humans are endowed with canine teeth. They are designed specifically to tear meat, therefore, humans are clearly intended to do just that. Now I would ask a question: Who is more ethical - the 4H kid who cares for animals every day in the pursuit of clarifying lines and improving the genetic stock available or the uniformed masses who think hamburger comes from those funny little styrofoam trays pumped full of nitrogen and stacked on supermarket shelves? I would posit that the kid involved in learning the proper treatment of animals is a far more ethical consumer than the uniformed masses who not only don't know where their food comes from, but couldn't care less so long as waiting for their Big Mac doesn't make them late for their latte before work. Feel free to avoid meat if that is your choice, but please exhibit the common courtesy and maturity to avoid demonizing those who choose to eat the meat humans have evolved to consume.
What a ridiculous load of cow poop. I'm sorry if I just insulted any of you poop worshipers. So you want to hide from your kids where burgers come from? What a crock. The only problem with 4-H is that it's paid for by the liberal cash cow known as the USDA.
4H is a bunch of liberal hacks who work to undermine family values in the kids they indoctrinate. I would never let my kids join such a crowd.
you are stupid, apparently you are a fan of harry potter, so having your kids read about magic and fake things is more important than learning about the actual things that put food on your table....and for the undermineing family values....it take a family to be apart of the 4-H program, not just the child, the whole family has to invest....there for it builds family relationships!
Now Now. I'm a Georgia 4-H'er, and while HarryPotthead (?) post tears me up inside, because their kids will never gain the leadership, outstanding speaking skills, or making lifelong friends like we will. We shouldn't be rude about it. Rise above and be mature. I will agree with you that I am outraged by his comment, but let's show him that WE are the bigger person.
Really? they undermine family values? have you even been around 4-H? There is a something i would like call Family and Consumer Science aka FACS which if you knew anything about anything, 4-her's learn family values. Or maybe food sciences, or even fabrics science, or wait MAYBE even LEADERSHIP? but hey, if that is undermining family values, then i must have one f"ed up family!
I grew up in 4-H. Saying that it desensitizes youth to killing is showing that misinformation is truly the cause of the majority of anti-ag and anti-meat opinions. 4-H goes way beyond raising an animal. Many people have stated already that raising animals teaches responsibility, work ethic, how to humanely care for another life and so many other valuable lessons.
Even more so, there is 4-H EVERYWHERE! In the county I grew up in, non livestock project outweighed livestock projects I'm guessing about 10 fold. The kids from the "city" were learning just as valuable lessons as us livestock kids were. On both sides we learned how to present a project that we completed, to take pride in our work, do the best we can, and to treat others with respect. My parents ALWAYS made us congratulate the winners in what ever category we were competing in.
In meetings we all learned parliamentary procedure, which I took as speaking when it was your turn, listening to what others had to say, and coming to an agreement with a group of people (compromising!) even if you didn't like all of the terms of said agreement.
Yes I grew up raising and caring for livestock and yes I eat meat. Just this past Christmas my brother and I spent hours in the barn trying to help a cow have a calf and then helping the calf get up and nurse from its mother so it would stay alive. 4-H taught us to do all of this. I am a proud alum of Long Creek Critters 4-H in Macon County, Illinois!!
i love your post! I'm a 4-h member from the jr. sunflowers/westfall winners club from Lincoln County Kansas!
That's a wonderful story, thank you. I still disagree, however, with the practice of traumatizing a child by making them sell a creature they have loved and nurtured. I'm not saying 4-H is a horrible organization, but I think this practice is. The sad thing is, a child cries over losing a beloved pet, all so a most likely overweight American - who doesn't need the calories - can chow down on a steak. Don't think it's worth the cost to the kid, the cow, or the overweight foodie.
Traumatizing a child? Having been raised in 4-H and FFA and doing the same with my own children I see no traumatizing events. Watching children kill other children is traumatizing. A child being starved, beaten, and demeaned is traumatizing. Innocent people killed by religious zealots, impaired drivers, negligence or ignorance is traumatizing. Teaching children how to be responsible caretakers of their animals as a food source with an inevitable end point is not traumatizing. It is a lot easier to do that than to explain why their friend's grandma was killed in her bed during a home invasion. That was traumatizing.
I was in many ways exactly the kind of kid you imagine when thinking of 4-H. In the morning before school, I put on my rubber boots, trudged out to the granary, filled up my buckets and went to feed my calves. I brushed them, I gave them baths using Suave shampoo, I sprayed them down with fly spray…yes, I knew my calves were destined for slaughter, but I loved them nonetheless. And yes, more than a few tears were shed outside of the sale ring…but my parents taught me that I raised my steers and heifers for the very purpose of providing for someone else.
My mother was a 4-H extension agent before I came along. Both my parents were raised showing animals in 4-H. Instead of desensitizing me to the world around me, they brought my calves to school to show my classmates, made me responsible for taking care of my animals (albeit they helped out a lot, especially when I was younger) and instilled in me a belief animals raised for food should have an environment where they can be “happy cows.”
4-H is not just for farm kids, but I’m sure glad we farm kids are included. Every day, I use my head for clearer thinking in my job. I use my heart for greater loyalty to my husband and my family. I use my health for better living by exercising regularly (I’m training to run a marathon), cooking meals at home when I can and eating healthier. I use my hands for better living for my community (I’m the block captain), my country (I am a proud Air Force wife) and my world. And, more than anything else, I am grateful everyday for all the lessons I learned as a member of the Eureka Homesteaders 4-H Club in Barton County, Kansas.
Please read my full note on my facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=140216639385936
I too took part in the livestock project in my 4-H program as well. I learned so much from 4-H that, that is what i want to do with the rest of my life. I have been involved in the program since i was 5. I learned how to cook, sew, fix cars, care for animals, grow a garden, and many other life skills that a lot of other children miss out on. I know way to many people who do not know how to cook, or do anything for themselves and are completely dependent on other people to feed them or fix their tire...I am able to do it all on my own. I would never have learned the things i did had i not been a member of the Jr. Sunflower/Westfall Winners Club from Lincoln County Kansas.
Plus, I don't think anyone here has suggested we put the lives of animals above those of humans. That's such a knee-jerk reaction to anyone who dares disagree or hint at any issues with eating meat. Your posting was reasonable and thoughtful, but I hated seeing you rely on that old saw.
Aaron,
Not sure why the HSUS would donate to individual shelters. They're not the SPCA. They're involved in animal cruelty issues from small pets on up to livestock and wildlife. Please note that there are agri-business detractors who love to discredit the HSUS, so really dig into your sources. I found a site slamming the HSUS. I tracked it all the way to agri-business interests.
@thepoint The only reason I brought up the HSUS and local shelters is because of their constant appeal to helping animals. I've heard about a few groups out there to take down HSUS, but I haven't explored them closely. The bottom line, however, is that they DO have a fairly radical set of views toward animal agriculture. I don't have a problem with individuals who don't consume meat or animal products. I think it is part of what makes our country unique and diverse. I do have an issue with those who would like to dictate miniscule lifestyle choices, like what we eat, instead of tackling bigger issues like our growing national debt or the war in the Middle East (not trying to open the bag of worms).
I'm all for animal welfare, but not for animal rights. While no one has directly said that they choose not to put the lives of animals over humans, the action of having articles like this and organizations like PETA do exactly that.
I am not a fan of slam campaigns by either side. It isn't necessary. But that's my $0.02 worth :P
I'll be honest-this article make me a little sick. I have seen kids who were raised in agriculture (4-H and FFA) and those who weren't-as an employer, I'm much more likely to hire ag kids if I can (I live in LA) because they understand what it means to look at the bigger picture. They know what it means to put in effort to accomplish something. They are also some of the most courteous and considerate individuals you'll ever meet. If you think for a minute that they don't take into consideration the treatment of the animals, you're sadly mistaken. Although I'm not connected with agriculture, I've taken time to be educated about it, and many of you would do well to do the same.
Agriculture is striving to find ways of continuing their practice. Many love to ridicule practices (which haven't always been the greatest), but forget that farmers eat out of the same food supply that we all do. They don't want to have a bad product.
Please take a moment to consider the people. When we begin placing the lives of animals above the value of a human, there is something drastically wrong.
Btw-PETA killed more than 23,000 dogs, cats and other animals from 1999-2008. The vast majority of money donated to the Humane Society of the Unite States (NOT your local humane society) goes to legal fees and lobbyists-not to animal shelters. Food for thought.
As an agricultural producer and also an employer for the USPS I have found that work ethic is woefully lacking. There is no age bracket that explains this odd occurance. But there is a common background for these potential employees. No blue collar background. I can teach you customer service, computer skills, and financial matters. I can also teach you how to rope, put up hay, and put a well rounded healthy meal on the table. However, I cannot teach you to have a work ethic, empathy for others, and how to take a world view.
Why is it ok to pick on CHILDREN and not CORPORATIONS that are causing mass murder.
4-H teaches RESPECTFUL RAISING AND PROCESSING of animals. It teaches LIFE CYCLE.
CORPORATIONS are murdering animals unhumanely. There is NO reason to pick on children and the 4-H Program.
4-H teaches life skills and character. You would have never posted this if you would have been through our program.
Thank you.
Yes, 4-H children are horrible and they hate animals...yep, that is why 4-H turns out more students that become veterinarians than any other youth organization...Oh the Humanity!
I hate vegetarians. Why are involved in the innocent slaughter of innocent plants, damn you. When I look into the eyes of a helpless cucumber it makes me sad to know that somewhere an innocent carrot might be put to death. Why must the killing of innocent vegetables go on. In only incites the use and destructiveness of cheese, who is horribly and publicly displayed on salads. People from California are the cruelest killing those innocent grapes. But I'm not going to talk about fruits, that's a whole other issue with people today in the modern world of computers and high tech society we live in. Next time you talk to a vegan, let him know that pulic opinion is changing, one day they will be punished by irregular bowel movements!!!,!,
"Vegetard".....yes, i like this new term, I'd love to see a handful of these fools starving to death on an island with limited food sources, how long would it be until they beg for anything edible.
That there are people who believe raising an animal as a food source is barbaric sickens me. If you have never gone through the entire process that brings meat to your table then you have absolutely no room to talk, you have NO IDEA how these animals are raised, how loved they are, how well taken care of, ect... Have you seen how the big operations run their animals compared to how the smaller and 4-H operations do theirs?
There can be up to 300 DIFFERENT cattle in your one single McDonald's hamburger, there is NO WAY to trace what happened to any single animal in those big processing plants, their medications, their food, ect...
When you raise your own animal, or one for someone else, you know EXACTLY how that animal lived, what went into their care, what they ate, what medications they received, that there are no added hormones, ALL OF IT. And you also know that the more handled the animal is the easier it is to tell if there is something wrong with it so you can help it, and the less afraid it will be when it goes up the last chute. It will never suffer because it won't be afraid, it won't be panicking in the last few seconds.
Yes, you care about that animal, but it is exactly that caring that allows you to appreciate how YOU survive. You get perspective on the world. Animals have to die in order for you to eat, but that does NOT mean we learn to desensitize ourselves to killing, we care just as much as the first time we did it, but we know that we have done the best we can in order to give it the best life possible before we end it. Can you say the same thing about that steak you had last night? Do you know how that animal lived? Did you appreciate it while it was alive, give it a peaceful existence without suffering?
So yeah, maybe some of us cry, and some of us don't, but that doesn't mean the ones who aren't crying don't care, everyone expresses themselves differently.
I did 4-H for 12 years and I'm still not "desensitized" as you call it; and I started when I was 5. "4-H teaching kids to be cold blooded killers" is a load of Bull. It's the rest of the population that needs some perspective on the world.
Dear Heather King,
Were you ever a 4-H member growing up? Did you raise animals that were your best friends just to sell them at auction, gain a large premium, and send them on their way? I did. Not only did I grow up on a cattle ranch, I showed and sold my market animals each year in 4-H, from my first year at 8 years old until I reached18. Did I have an attachment to my first few calves? Yes, absolutely. Did I know that they were going off to be slaughtered to feed a hungry family? Yes. Did I cry my first calf or two? Of course I did. Coming from a farm, I love animals of all sorts, and having to sell my prize steer named Sebastian did not ruin my love for animals. Why should we shelter our children with the outcome of their steer, rather than educate them so they know the whole process and can appreciate what other people along that chain of command do to produce the delicious hamburgers and steaks that we enjoy? I would rather educate my children to know the humane practices of slaughter and raising animals, than shelter them from that knowledge.
Whose to say the animal sold at a 4-H auction is going to be mistreated before slaughter? Do you know how this process works? Let me enlighten you. Joe Meatpacker buys 20 steers at the county fair that he intends to render at his meat packing plant. The animals are loaded onto a trailer, hauled to the plant location, unloaded into the packing plant, and then slaughtered. These are not inhumane practices, yet acceptable standards in today’s slaughter practices.
When the children see their animal go for a high price, of course they are excited. Do you know why? They know they raised a quality animal that someone was willing to pay a premium for. The child might even know the buyer, which adds to the positive experience of talking to the new owner of your animal. That is not desensitizing, that is getting and understanding the whole process. It’s an education difficult to teach outside of this example. It’s a fantastic way to establish relationships with people in your community.
I have and will continue to support the 4-H, and other organizations like it, who educate, relate, and teach the youth of today about animal agriculture.
4h does NOT teach children to be killers in any sense of the name. that is completely bogus! 4H teaches children responsibility, respect for others and their property, leadership etc. many of our veterinarians were 4Hers. many of our doctors, scientist, politicians, etc were 4Hers back in the day. the only reason some people would say "4H teaches children to kill" is bcs many people out there today believe that we shouldn't care for animals. these people see owning a dog as slavery. NONE of these people have ever taken care of a sick livestock animal let alone any animal. i have many discussions with people of this nature. one stated that a horse was a ruminate and screamed at me bcs i told her that wasn't true. my professor told us a story about how he talked to this vegan on a plane that would eat chicken wings bcs the wings grow back. you know like a lizards tail. common people! do not this these people rob your children's lives of these wonderful animals. 4H is an amazing program that teaches children aspects of life many city children do not know (and some adults). children prosper into adulthood with amazing skills, and maturity bcs of 4H. oh and you don't have to be around animals, have them around home, or know anything about them to be in 4H! 4H has a wide range of activities for children to do to public speaking to baking cakes!
It's interesting that people equate being a vegan/vegetarian or just an animal advocate with being a whiner or weenie. It's a shame being see things in such black and white terms. Good to be open to other viewpoints. Not good to insult and label anyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do.
There appears to be bashing on both sides of the argument. However as we are all humans and as such think that our opinions, each and every one of them, are superior to anyone elses this will continue to happen. We are all entitled to our own opinions and life styles. I will not force mine on you if you will respectfully do the same.
i just think anybody saying that 4H is trying to desensitize me needs to learn how this process works. im in 4h and i show MARKET aots. they go to the MARKET and i have known from day 1 my animals will be slaughtered. also the article talking about us being happy when we get our auction check we are. not because we are not sensetive to our animals going to a slaughter house but because we know our hard work has payed off and it covers our expenses in raising the animals.
*MARKET goats*
while people are starving in africa we got so much food that we have the audacity to say we cant eat animals. Ya know their are ton of starving north korean kids living off of grass who im sure would love to have a hamburger for dinner.
as for myself... im going to keep eating meat. have like 30 kids cause im conservative. and teach them all to be meat lovers.
4H is the political brainwashing organization that Neocons use to indoctrinate their kids. NOTHING good comes from this organization except future disciples to bow to the military-industrial complex.
This is hilarious....do you ever actually go outside and look around the world and visit new palces?! wow.....
You sound like your mother raised you in a basement and only fed you celery your entire life. You do understand that things have to die in order for other things to survive, right? It's sort of a fact of life, and has nothing to do with anything you just spouted from that thing you a call a mouth.
Have you ever been a 4-H'er? I would assume you haven't been because of the ridiculous comment you posted. 4-H is a wonderful organization that teaches kids leadership, speaking skills, forms everlasting friendships, and many other innumerable qualities. As a 4-H Senior board officer, I've seen just how these skills can affect a person's life. I was a shy, soft-spoken, contained little girl. Through 4-H, i'm outgoing and bubbly. I talk to everyone and anyone about why they themselves should join 4-H. So before you go criticizing an organization you must know nothing about, come talk to an actual 4-H'er. It may make a world of difference.
Do us all a favor and shut up. 4H is the best thing that a child can participate in. Good wholesome values. Farmers are not desensitized they live life so that the remainder of your goobers can enjoy everything else.
I don't believe that raising animals for auction at the 4-H/FFA livestock sale with the end result being the slaughter of the animal desesnsitizes our nation's youth. Perhaps the larger group of food (be it meat or vegateable) purchasers have become so far removed and insulated from the realities of food production that they lack a thorough understanding of the process. Ignorance and misinformation seem to create zealots bent on attempting to bully those who choose to act, think, or do differently into their way of thinking.
bit.ly/k6uwOk
My story about FFA not desensitizing me!
This article represents the larger problem with people that can use a platform like CNN to defame a great organization like 4-H. To simply make an allegation that is "un-true" and unwarranted should be against the law. This crosses the line of free speech. Kids that participate in this organization (including my daughter) understand that the well being of animals is fundamental with being a good human. Farmers/Ranchers all understand how important it is to care for their livestock. Kids that grow up on a farm learn about life and death at a much younger age. This does not de-sensitize them anymore than watching video games or main street tv. Kids in 4-H learn great values in life and should not be de-humanized by some group with a personal agenda like PETA!
Well said! Children who grow up in some form of production agriculture have a much better grasp on the reality of life. From the very beginning to the very end. And as a bonus the "Big Talk" about sexuality isn't so big, take your kids to semen and trich. test bulls or preg check cows sometime.
I have worked at a 4H camp for the past two years. In those two years I have never seen anything that would make me think that what 4H does or stands for is wrong! I was never in 4H as a child because I grew up in the city, I was however in boyscouts. One day when I have kids of my own you bet your bottom dollar they will somehow be involved in the county 4H program.
4-H teaches valuable life skills. I'm sorry but animals are not all designed to simply populate the earth. Cattle, pigs, sheep – those are food and clothing animals. They are raised to provide life sustenance and if you get caught up in emotions then you can't do the job of raising these vital sources of food, clothing and other life sustaining products. I was raised in the country and in 4-H. I have an immense love and respect for all living things, but I also understand that the circle of life for things requires that some animals are sacrificed for our own human needs.
You who think raising animals for food is disgusting: Stop eating all animal products – meat, eggs, milk, butter, ice cream. Don't buy dog or cat food either because those contain animal meats and/or by-products. Don't buy leather shoes, belts, purses or wallets – for gosh sake don't have leather seats in your cars! You're the ones living a dream. Life is full of hard lessons. I'm sick to death of all you weenies and whiners who think life is all about feeling warm and fuzzy. Some of us have to work for a living and some of us have a real life in which we're the ones doing those unpleasant things that let you lazy whiners lead your luxury lives in your dream worlds complaining. Eat a bon-bon and watch re-runs of Oprah.
We did rabbit breeding for 4-H when I was young, and I can say for an absolute fact, after being around it and the other aspects of 4-H activities, it absolutely does NOT desensitize kids to "killing." Some animals like cattle do get taken to slaughter, but this would be true if they were 4-H related or not. Cattle become steak, this is what they are for in the US. Teaching kids how to care for the animals and be involved in the process teaches them an appreciation for the life of the animal, and even though we lost a lot of rabbits over our time breeding, it only made me appreciate their LIVES more.
These anti 4-H people are probably PETA nuts to begin with. They're anti-pets, anti-working animals, anti-meat, anti-fur, anti-everything really, and it just isn't realistic or feasible.
That, and rabbits are incredibly tastey and extremely good for you, and for people with heart problems because of the low fat and fatty acids. But I will never get over the killing part of it, it's all worth it because you know that you are capable of producing your own food, ect.. but that doesn't make killing them any easier.
We are to watch over the meat providing animals with care. They were put on this earth for our nourishment. I'm sure the writer of this blog lives the city life and has never set foot on a farm. If he had, this would not have been an issue. Write about something you have experience with. If you've never interviewed a farm family or visited a working farm and talked to the people, then this article is irrelevant. Write about what you know. Not about what you don't know. It's all about control. You don't want to eat meat fine but don't make me follow your misguided and uninformed philosophy.
IM sorry but what exactly is your idea of how they are tourtured? These animals are fed the highest quality feed, cared and attended for every day, givin clean fresh water, and exercised. these animals are...dare i say...pampered.
you people make me very sad that you are willing to hang an organization that does so much for our youth, and quite frankly i am affraid that because you are louder and more annoying, other people with no brain cells who can not decide for themselves will belive what you and other uneducated and ignorant people tell them.
My goal as a future ag teacher is to reach each and every student possible to educate them on the importance of agriculture. not being mean to little piggys and laughing as they die. but to care for your livestock, work hard and value what you get out of it, and to be greatful and respectful for the food we have. And also!!! belive it or not!!! how to grow crops, and vegitables...to feed you, the very type of person who is trying to stomp us out. Get rid of us honey, go ahead, but then i beg you to tell me where you will get YOUR food??? or the clothes you wear?? or didnt you know a farmer (who was more than likely in 4H) had to grow the cotton to make it.......
It is unfortunate that you have so much money in your pocket that you have never had to break a sweat in the hot sun to make sure your animals are fed and their pens are clean BEFOR you are able to sit and the table and have supper
Do you think that countries less fortunate than ours would prefer to eat a carrot or steak that is full of nutrients (not to mention ummm...flavor) to help them and their dying families grow???
You and people like you are a discrase to the people who founded our country, your very own great great grand parents had to farm and ranch to survive, they weren't a bunch of cry baby softies who drove their car to the store everyday to get their grocieries....but you probably think that they just appear there by magic.
Your blind ignorance of agriculture in its entirety makes me SICK and i pray for you and those you influence.
We joined 4H @ the age of 9 to have/give a positive influence in our lives & in the lives of those we come in contact with. 4H & FFA grow amazing youth into amazing adults. Proud to be the Mom of this future Ag Teacher! You go girl!!
People have no clue where their food comes from these days. I myself was a 4H'er (one letter short of the 5H'ers described above) and I cannot tell you how many valuable lessons I learned during my ELEVEN years in this club. I did raise pigs and I did sell them off to market. At first you are right, it was very very difficult to sell my hogs, but over time, I learned that this is part of life. This is how we eat. This is why former farm kids understand and appreciate a good meal and many of the kids I work with today think food comes from McDonalds or a grocery store.
4-H offered me the opportunity to create a homemade pie, create bread from scratch, completely strip and refinish an antique rocking chair and teach my dog of 8 years obedience. I learned discipline from getting up in the morning to go feed and care for the hogs that I showed. It was this same discipline which has helped this small town Iowa farm girl complete medical school and become an MD. So if you want to go ahead and insult this wonderful club which teaches kids life skills and values which will help them succeed in life... go ahead, but know that you are truly naive and wrong in doing so.
I grew up showing dairy cattle and we also had many beef cows as well. Yes, most dairy cattle do not go to slaughter until they are old but we do still send our steers. Every single one of the animals that are born on our farm have a name andthey are just like big pets. Everytime we put them on a trailor it is hard to see them go but we are educated on the cirlce of life. Today, I am a 4-H educator and we educate students on the circle of life and where their food comes from. 4-H and FFA are teaching kids how to do valuable careers because if we don't continue to teach this art someday we may not be able to eat.
As a former 4H'er & FFA member, and now as a 4H leader and County Ag Extension Agent, I can honestly say that you don't become desensitized. You become appreciative of the hard work it takes to raise that animal, treating it much better than simply humanely, and then are rewarded by a check and the companion animal on your plate. There is no substitute for growing and harvesting your own meat. And yes, I have harvested and butchered my own 4H animals. It's a tremendous learning experience but one every person should have!
It's an interesting perspective. However, what a lot of vegetarians and others who don't believe in killing animals for meat do not understand is that all of the plants and plant products that we all eat are the result of killing the plants. In fact, many are eaten while they are still alive (i.e. raw vegetables, salads, etc.)! Is this more humane? In the cycle of life, living cells must be consumed. There are no alternatives. It's up to each individual to decide what he or she chooses to eat. 4-H is a first class organization that is doing a lot of good things for our young people. Anyone who looks into it further will certainly come to the same conclusion.
I grew up on a small dairy farm near a rural community of just 800 people. 4-H is a staple in communities like this, and for good reason. Our high school didn’t have enough kids to field a football team or a marching band, but our local 4-H group had more than 70 members. Yes, I had a livestock project. And yes, I loved those animals… sometimes even like a pet. But I always knew they were not pets. They were raised for a purpose other than companionship. Growing up on a farm, I had seen a calf born, and I knew that animals would eventually die. I don’t believe this desensitized me. I believe it helped me to learn a valuable life lesson that each of us has to come to terms with eventually. We treated our animals humanely, and cared for them the best way we knew how. But they were our livelihood – not our pets. Our freezer full of steaks came from the locker plant, not the grocery store. We understood the cycle, and it did not make us sad. It’s just the way life works.
4-H was my first opportunity to be involved in a community organization. It was the first time I was a member of something. It represented my first exposure to networking, to teamwork, to volunteering and to experiencing other cultures. It was my first opportunity to work on a project and follow through to the finish. That meant planning, implementing my plan, deciding how to exhibit my project for the 4-H fair, preparing for an interview about my work with a judge, and keeping records on the entire experience. It was my first chance at public speaking, which would be an integral part of my future. Sometimes it meant winning an award, and sometimes it didn’t. Much like sports for kids who are passionate athletes, it was the chance at success and often the time to learn to lose gracefully. All of these things helped to prepare me for life in the real world, where teachers and professors have expectations, employers want productive, efficient and ethical workers, and organizational leaders need people who can work well together and execute a plan. 4-H was the beginning of all of those skills for me.
I understand that there are people who don’t believe the same way I do about the purpose of animals like cows, pigs and chickens. I will respectfully disagree with the opinion that animals should not be harvested for meat. But I won’t stand idly by while people use that argument to give a black eye to an organization that holds so much value for young people across the world. It was an important part of my youth, it is the reason I continue to support 4-H today, and it is the reason I plan to find a 4-H club for my children when the time comes. No matter what the interest, there is a place to grow that skill and challenge that child to his or her fullest potential in 4-H.
How anyone can choose to take a living thing, extinguish the life and consume it, is beyond me. The way I've seen heads of lettuce ripped from the soil, or corn torn out of its husk... the whole sale slaughter of entire wheat fields by giant combines, so many living things, one moment enjoying the sun, the next cut down without so much as a shutter from the "human" aiding the annihilation.
Life is beautiful because it exists. However in order to exist we have to gain the nutrition to survive. Plants take nutrients from the Earth, spiders eat the small bugs that eat our vegetables, larger animals eat those that are smaller, and it continues on. Without the cycle of eating organisms there would be no life for you to appreciate.
4-H is really making the best better! Over 6 million yourth and adults are comprise this dynamic organization that is proven to be an integral part of the personal development of the future leasders of America. Anyone not convinced on the sincerity and continuity of this program should take time to visit with a 4-H representative in their area.
I joinged 4-H when I was nine years old, and continued my membership until my 21st birthday. Each year I took livestock projects to learn more about the cattle and sheep that my family raises. Not only did I become a more educated producer of such commodities, but I also became more aware of the importance of consumer interests. Rest assured, there won't be a fifth leaf added to the emblem anytime soon. There is no organzation that displays more compassionate for others and acceptance of varying viewpoint than 4-H.
It is not just kids with cows and plows that are participating iand learning about modern agriculture. There are youth in rural and urban areas involved in opportunities to become more educated about the food being produced and consumed.
Maybe not everyone had the 4-H exposure that I was fortunate to have, but I feel strongly that "haters" is pretty harsh. If it comes down to global responsibility, 4-H has been green since 1902.
My children have hand raised dozens of 4h animals. They have learned responsible behavior through this program, the economic benefit of raising a meat animal in a humane environment, and they understand the role their animals play in the food chain. Do they sometimes love their animals? Yes! And sometimes it does make it hard to lead them to that truck in the end. But they are committed to an industry that provides human beings with a valuable source of protien and that feeds the world. While my kids are out cleaning pens, feeding and grooming their animals, check to make sure yours aren't ripping human "enemies" up to a bloody pulp with a machine gun on their Black Ops video game. Now that's producing a "sensitive" kid.
You put into words exactly what I was thinking! Good job. :0)
You have got to be kidding me about the 4-H clubs...they are an organization that supports good ethical growing up in america standards and teaches good animal habits. Now I want everyone to go out and help support a 4-H'er !!!
4H is nothing short of evil and should be outlawed.
why? why is it so evil? Did you read anything 4-Hers have posted here?
Great argument; very direct and to the point. Oh, for the record, it's pretty obvious that this was only posted to see people react. Relax everyone, I wouldn't get too worked up over this one.
4H is nothing close to evil. IT teaches us life values and not to be judgemental about something they probaly have no idea about like some people. -from a CURRENT 4her
Seriously!!!!! you have no idea what you are talking about!!!!!
Horror movies, slutty celebrities, pornographic movies, smoking, abusive drinking... These should also be outlawed. How can you compare something as wholesome as 4-H to those?
Do you even realize how valuable 4-H is to a community? I have been a proud member of 4-H from the age of 7 to the age of 19. 4-H has taught me how to be a responsible adult, how to care for animals properly, how to train a dog humanely, how to cook, sew, draw, paint, identify rocks, build rockets, and plant a sustainable garden. Likewise I showed horses and goats for several years and I can tell you I have been behind the front lines of the animal division of 4-H. You will never ever find better cared for animals then you do at a 4-H fair. Our pledge is "I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service, and my health to better living for my club, my community, my country, and my world" We pledge to think logically and humanely, we pledge to love our animals for what they are and treat them with the utmost respect, we pledge our hands to committing acts of kindness toward those around us be it animals or humans, and we pledge to live healthy lives meaning we do not take poor care of our animals or ship them off to large animal processing plants. We sell them locally to people who appreciate our hard work of tenderly raising the animal from birth. We do all of this for ourselves, our families, our communities, the United States of America, and we even have international programs where we go to other countries and teach them just how valuable of a lesson it is to be fair and just to all creatures.
Obviously you have never actually been to a local 4-H fair. Every year I have watched dozens of kids that range in age from 8 to 17 cry and hug their cows that are about to be sent into the auction ring for slaughter. Likewise when they have to auction their meat pen rabbits (which are often required to be slaughtered before hand) their parents often have to take the rabbits into the ring because the children are crying too much. In a day and age when the care of our animals is of the utmost importance, organizations like 4-H and FFA set shining examples of how animals should be treated before consumed. I dare you to come to one of our 4-H fairs and look at all of the cattle that are lovingly brushed, decorated with ribbons, given names, and well cared for by their children. Also I dare you to sit in on an auction and see how common it can be for relatives to buy the animal so at least the child knows where it is going. Do not accuse 4-H for teaching children how to be responsible and loving toward other living things. Get your facts straight.
As a past 4-Her who raised cattle and saw my 4-H friends raise all kinds of animals – I completely disagree that we are the kind of people who are desensitized to killing animals. In 4-H, I gained an appreciation for my food, where it came from, and the people who produce it.
What's sad to me is the desensitization of kids who were not as lucky as me to learn about and respect the food chain. Kids who don't understand this process are similar to kids who think you put a credit card into a machine and you get money. Good nutrition doesn't come from a grocery store - it comes from farms all over the United States and the world.
All the 4-Hers in my club and county value hard work, a direct lesson we learned from all our projects, including raising our calves, hogs, goats and chickens.
One thing this article failed to mention is how sensitive 4-Hers are to the animal. I was raised with 4-H, I was taught to care for the animal before myself; breakfast came for the animal before it did for myself. 4-Hers are taught how to properly care for the animal including nutrition, stable living conditions, and what truly makes an animal happy and healthy. From the beginning of time animals have been used to survive for humans. Cave men: paintings of men fighting for their survival. Bible stories: sacrificing animals for the lord. Mayans: killed animals. Throughout the history humans have given to the earth and the earth gives back. Humans survive with meat, basic knowledge. Should we call ourselves murderers if we find a beautiful cherry tree fall in love with it because it has beautiful blossoms and then pluck away the cherries and some day cut the tree down for the use of wood for something as measly as cabinets in our homes. These are our natural resources that we use just as animals are one too.
It amazes me how ignorant people can be in this day and age. How is it that the general population discriminates on a youth leadership development program that does more to defining youth than some parents ever do? The majority of the population does not even know where their meat comes from, or what the meat packing industry does for a living. Indeed, it is illegal to fly over one such meat farm and take pictures because the images are so horrifying. The fact is that 4-H is a program that teaches kids responsibility, ethics, integrity, leadership, and confidence better than almost any other youth organization. If you honestly care where your meat comes from that much, why don't you make a difference as to the treatment the animal receives before it is killed- because you can bet that when the animal is treated correctly (as it is in 4-H) its life will be one that was momentous before it dies, unlike almost any meat farm. Do your research before you talk. Ignorance can only protect your reputation so much.
This is a bunch of crap. Our kids in 4-h do love their animals as they grow and learn just because you don't like meat doesn't mean other people don't! Here in Kansas we know what is right and stick to our values of God, family, and MEAT on our dinner tables. We depend upon agriculture to live around here its the way of life. That's just too bad you city folk think these animals are being mistreated these animals have it good they play, eat, and run around our farms as they grow. And just an FYI the kids don't put the animals on a trailer here off to slaughter. It just goes to show you jerks have no idea how it works so let's makes stuff up. And I have full confidence in our FDA regulations that are on these packing plants. Why don't you look on you tube and see what happens in other countries where there are no stipulations? Just because 1 was bad doesn't make them all bad.
I did not grow up in 4-H because I lived in the city and back in those days 4-H was not yet in the cities. By a strange quirk of circumstances however, my first professional job was as an Extension 4-H youth agent in Michigan. As part of an annual awards ceremony, I invited the local circuit court judge to make a few remarks and help pass out the awards. In his remarks, the judge indicated that while he had not been a 4-H member, he greatly appreciated the 4-H program and then he said the following, "To the best of my knowledge, I have never had a former 4-H member stand accused in my court." From that time on, I vowed that if I ever had children, 4-H would be the only 'required' extracurricular activity in our house. All four of my children were in 4-H from when they were old enough to high school graduation. Compared to their non-4-H friends, their leadership skills and confidence in public speaking have really allowed them to shine in school. It's amazing how much of the high school leadership are 4-H members.
I for one am proud to have been raised in an agricultural community, the daughter of a 5th generation farmer and have witnessed nothing but respect and care for livestock. For anyone to assume that these animals are abused across the entire industry is unfair and quite frankly, ignorant. In a society where we are constantly taught to accept EVERYONE, regardless of race, color, creed, origin and orientation, are we not supposed to remember and appreciate those who actually attribute to our economy by working in a dignified and respectful manner? Programs like 4-H teach children to understand the world of farming and provide the ultimate pride in what they do, not only for themselves, but for the products their families produce.
I am aa 4-h member right now and i can tell you that the animals that i rase are respected and treated with the more caser then any fo the animals in the factory farms and i have leaned about things like friendship and respect through 4-h and i will never forget them and i am positive that 4-h doesn't teach kids anything but valuable life lessons. being in 4-h with my friends an neighbors has taught me that a good person with help you out if you need it and always be that for you.....as for that people that think 4-h is all about the money or the killing of animals do you have any people in your community that woulddrop anything if you needed help?
I am amazed by the lack of education of the agricultural industry in this country. As a life long member of 4-H, I am nothing short of proud of my involvement with livestock projects. As a college student pursuing a degree in agriculture, I only hope that I can benefit the agricultural industry as much as it has benefited me. I have become the person that I am because of 4-H and there is nothing that will deter my opinion of this wonderful youth development program.
4H is a great program! 4H is preparing children for the real world and farming. People, who are saying terrible things about 4H have no clue about what it takes to become a farmer. Most of the children, that are in 4H are going to be your future farmers and without farmers we would have no food. I was in 4H, when I was a child and it did not desensitize me. Television, video games and texting are the problem!!! This is what desensitizes children. I have seen more killing, abuse, and torturing of animals and people on TV and video games, than anywhere. Change TV and video games violence and change the world!
I am grateful for the many logical, well thought out responses that have successfully presented facts without emotion getting in the way.
The most detrimental part of this article are the rash, poorly thought out responses of people in agriculture (or meat eaters in general). 4H and FFA are great organizations, a portion of which is dedicated to teaching youth the importance of their role in continuing the future of agriculture in a way that is responsible and respectful of themselves, their society, the environment, and the animals... But, that point is lost when we react in ways that imply the opposite.
I am proud to say that my children are members of 4-H, involved in livestock projects, and I am a 4-H adult volunteer. We also run a small vegetable farm. My children get up before dawn every morning to care for their animals and to work in the garden. They are learning responsibility in having to care for something other than themselves. Their animals are well cared-for and loved but my children fully understand that the livestock that they raise are raised as a "meat project". How DARE you accuse my CHILDREN of being "haters" and "cold-blooded killers"! They are loving, respectful, responsible children and those are the values that 4-H promotes! Get your facts straight before you attack our 4-H kids!
Look, 4-H is amazing. One year I showed a pig and at the end of the show season, we butchered it. You raise animals to eat. I'm an offspring of a 3rd generation farmer/rancher. My grandpa raised cattle to butcher. Clean, home bred, angus cattle. I was always raised and taught that no matter the farm animal (cow, goat, sheep, chicken, pig), you are going to eat it. God put the animals on Earth for us to take care of and as a source of nutrition.
They don't educate only rural people, but also suburban kids. I've gone around teaching about where their food comes from and then it clicks to them. They understand that hamburger doesn't just come from Walmart, but from a cow. It's just simple facts of life.
Besides, 4-H is much more than just showing animals. We also offer photography, rockettering, robotics, sewing, woodworking, leatherwork, and so much more. It also teaches children how to be responsible. How to take care of things, be on time, public speaking, leadership and citizenship skills, the list goes on. Some of the most succesful people in the world are 4-H or FFA alumni.
For the whole India thing, it's like in America we don't butcher horses. Different culutures and different belifs. If you like their culture, you should probably go live over their for longer than a few days. I for one, like living in America with our meat-eating ways, Freedom, etc.
CNN and others need to be more educated. I challenge this reporter to actually go interview some 4-H'ers, extension agents, FFA students, ect. You all are the "haters." And for the record, the 5th H in the all-star emblem is the "HOME".
RIGHT ON!!!!
Look, 4-H is amazing. One year I showed a pig and at the end of the show season, we butchered it. You raise animals to eat. I'm an offspring of a 3rd generation farmer/rancher. My grandpa raised cattle to butcher. Clean, home bred, angus cattle. I was always raised and taught that no matter the farm animal (cow, goat, sheep, chicken, pig), you are going to eat it. God put the animals on Earth for us to take care of and as a source of nutrition.
They don't educate only rural people, but also suburban kids. I've gone around teaching about where their food comes from and then it clicks to them. They understand that hamburger doesn't just come from Walmart, but from a cow. It's just simple facts of life.
Besides, 4-H is much more than just showing animals. We also offer photography, rockettering, robotics, sewing, woodworking, leatherwork, and so much more. It also teaches children how to be responsible. How to take care of things, be on time, public speaking, leadership and citizenship skills, the list goes on. Some of the most succesful people in the world are 4-H or FFA alumni.
For the whole India thing, it's like in America we don't butcher horses. Different culutures and different belifs. If you like their culture, you should probably go live over their for longer than a few days. I for one, like living in America with our meat-eating ways, Freedom, etc.
CNN and others need to be more educated. I challenge this reporter to actually go interview some 4-H'ers, extension agents, FFA students, ect. You all are the "haters." And for the record, the 5th H in the all-star emblem is the "HOME".
This is the most pathetic post I have ever read. 4-H does not DEsensitize, rather it gives the child a more respect for animal life. You city slickers may think you know everything about farming, but I will place money on the fact that most of you CNN and PETA people have never stepped foot on a farm. Before you go blabbing your mouths, know the facts before making ridiculous accusations! Get a life!!
First of all its very sad that people making comments have to be so belittling of each other here and use such offensive language. Some of the comments here make this incredibly important topic appear so childish because of the childish comments.
I am proud of the fact that I can say I was a 10 year 4-H member! I was able to participate in so many wonderful activities as a 4-H member, including 4-H camp where I went swimming, made crafts, worked in teams on projects and made lots of friends. I also participated in public speaking contests, learned to sew and cook and yes, I also learned to raise my cattle & pigs and keep detailed records on the cost of raising them. One of the greatest things I was able to do as a 4-H member was show my animals at our state fair! And after I was done showing my steer & barrows, I knew they were going to the slaughter house and then would be in our freezer. Was I desensitized to the killing of my animals – absolutely not!! Livestock serve a purpose and their purpose is to provide food. I can remember my Dad taking me to the butcher (we didn't call it a slaughter house in the small town I was raised in) when we dropped the animals off and yes, I was in the kill floor many times when those animals were being processed.
My son isn't quite old enough for 4-H yet, but he is certainly looking forward to joining his local club this fall!
I am not interested in peoples choice to eat meat or not. It is the fact that CNN has taken the Global symbol ( a Cloverleaf with four H's on each leaf which stands for Head, Heart, Hands and Health) and has defaced it by adding "hatred". Our motto is, I pledge my Head for clearing thinking, My Heart to greater loyality, my Hands for larger service and my Health for Better Living. For my Club , My Community and for my World. We are a National Organiztion.....with world wide ties.......our kids are not just involved in Livestock. They are about learning life skills such leadership , community service, envirometal education, healthy lifestyles and making independent decisions. Our youth come from ALL walks of life and are taught to be positive and productive indivduals. To respect everyone reguardless of their beliefs. To associate the word "hate" with 4-H organization and members is going way to far.
To most of you it may be about what you are eating but for me I see a horrible word labeled to a youth organization that has made some outstanding contributions to our world. Please stop fighting over what is on your table and be thankful you have food to fight about. Look at the matter at hand.......CNN owes thousands of kids more than a huge apology.
If you aren't familiar with our program you can check out your Statewide 4-H website and our National 4-H site.
Be real journalist and show all sides of the story for a change. We, as intelliegent citizens are fully capable of drawing our own conclusion . Or is that what you are afraid of?
Is it just me or has nobody actually found any statistical evidence linking animal abuse/violence to 4H? I'm no expert on the topic, but I'm pretty sure debates are supposed to have "supporting evidence". Maybe 4H does teach people to be abusive; I really don't know. But so far in this discussion, there are just as many 4H supporters and members that claim to not be abusive as there are 4H opponents that claim to not be abusive. That in itself is evidence supporting 4H. Maybe not strong evidence, but it's more that the opposition has, which is nothing. I would also like to point out that I was never in 4H and knew almost nothing about it growing up, so don't think that I'm biased. I will gladly support the opposition if someone can actually provide support for the argument which so far they have not.
what a great article.what more could we expect from the liberal misinformed communist news network.i believe in freedom of speech but get your facts right or shut up.
I showed hogs in 4-H. I always thought cattle were a little high maintenance, with all the baths, walks, specialty feed, haircuts, special barns, etc. Yeah, those 4-H kids, sure hated their animals. Are you kidding me? 4-H kids adore their animals – even the smelly goats. Yes, a lot of 4-H families (like the rest of the population) eat meat. And a lot of 4-H animals end up as meat. But, most 4-H animals have a very nice life and receive lots of extra attention. So, the idea that 4-H teaches kids to hate animals holds ZERO logic.
The logic that holds water is that 4-H teaches kids to care for their animals – it teaches them the responsibility of providing for another living being. Through 4-H children develop leadership skills, communication skills, responsibility, creativity, technical skills, and life skills. It really breaks my heart that 4-H would receive this negative publicity. I hope that anyone with a negative attitude towards 4-H takes the time to develop a relationship with the 4-H organization to learn its true characteristics.
This is a case in point of being so open minded all of your brains fall out. There's a really disturbing way of thinking out there now that attributes human qualities to animals. An animal must be treated humanely, of course, but they are not people. And their purpose on earth is very different from people's. We NEED 4-H if for no other reason than to make sure at least some of our youth have a clue about this very thing. It's certain that there are plenty who will not.
To say that 4H is in any way negatives means you have never been involved with 4H. The program foster respects for all living things. And as far as my person experience is concerned I must concede we are only small herd dairy farmers – but we have been so for over 800 years in Ireland, on the same farm. You cannot farm and not care for the animals. To say that is very naïve. No one puts that much work into the land, sacrifices vacations, money and time to foster something they do not care about. In this country we make pets of everything, often to their detriment. Dogs are not made for baby carriages and co-sleeping in your bed. IT IS NOT IN THEIR BEST INTEREST – but people do it to fulfill some need of their own, not taking the dog’s needs into consideration. In my opinion if children are desensitized to death it’s due to the television and movies they are permitted to watch and the video games their parents are purchasing for them – not because they have raised a cow and sold it.
this entire blog is screwed up my 4-H chapter never had me raise an animal or kill that animal my 4-H chapter just told me when the cattle show was at the fair, told me when I had to work at the ice cream booth at the fairand that was about it. Our chapter never had anything to do with my animals and my choice to send them to the bucher
I can understand the ire over the headline. The article itself doesn't imply that 4-H is a cruel and terrible organization, but, yes, the headline is provocative and I can understand why folks would be upset over it. The piece itself presents various viewpoints, which seems fair. Also, note that CNN/Eatocracy also previously ran a feature called Five Reasons to Buy from Your Local 4-H. So, no, I don't think there's a vast conspiracy by CNN to take down 4-H :).
CNN has desensitized kids if anyone has !! There is not a day that goes by CNN does not use the word KILL !! CNN also hates any kind of organizations that they don't agree with or THEIR kids would be misfits in. What about all the killing of humans on CNN ? What about all the killing in the ghetto's? What about the tornado's ? It's a fact of life that things die and get killed !! I now know why liberal kids are behind the rest of the kids, their parents have hid everything from them
After reading some of the comments on this article, it is truly amazing to see the outstanding support for programs like 4-H and FFA. Both of these programs are internationally known for developing strong leaders, responsible consumers, and informed community members in the youth of our nation, and also around the world. These organizations teach leadership, communication, confidence, and responsibility through agriculture education. The agriculture industry provides 1 in 5 jobs in the United States, and yet, less than 2% of our population is directly involved in production agriculture (dairy, beef, grain, veggies, etc). The students who eventually go back to the farm are providing the rest of us with the freedom to pursue our own interests, rather than scratching out a living from the land, like our grandparents had to do. These students take immense pride in what they do, and work hard every day to provide a wholesome, safe product for all consumers. It is sad to see the hurtful and derogatory comments on both sides of the "eat meat" argument, whether we are talking about pesticides or slaughterhouses, because all of these comments stem from a disconnect from the agriculture industry and a lack of a hands-on, personal experience with the people and the processes involved in raising our food. 4-H and FFA are striving to re-connect the youth of our nation with one of our most important industries: agriculture. Through their efforts, they are not only providing for a future for the agriculture industry, but for YOUR future as well, because as long as there are people who eat, there will be someone to raise what is eaten. 4-H and FFA members go through extensive ethics training programs and certifications to be able to show their animals and sell them at county fairs across the nation. Mistreatment of animals is not tolerated on any level, and I know individuals who have been removed from the show ring for mistreating their animals. Students involved in these programs grow up to be responsible animal owners, raising their animals with care and pride. I am proud to be a former 4-H and FFA member, and am thankful for my upbringing on a small dairy farm–I hope to provide my children with the values I learned on the farm and as a member of these organizations. I encourage all of you to buy locally and to get to know a local grower of meat or vegetables. Get ALL of the facts to support your choice before ridiculing the choices of others. Take ownership in the production of your daily food and fiber, and gain a greater appreciation for those who chosen to make this their livelihood.
I could not stop laughing at the "desensitizing" remark. It is like saying we should not support Boy Scouts because they teach kids how to start fires. Every few years a group or an individual is so starved for attention they attack something that is the heart of America. I guess, this group/person has chosen 4-H this week. (and a very slow news day at CNN)
LOL
Are you kidding me, 4-H livestock kids are not desensitized. These children have been raised as compassionate caring kids that love their animals. The animals these kids raise are an investment of their time and money. These kids are lucky to break even financially but the rewards are worth all the cost. These “desensitize” children learn what it takes to care for something that depends on them day in and day out. It’s not like a video game that you can play when you want and then leave it for days, or shoot someone who comes back to life because you want a do-over. 4-H teaches real life, real issues, problem solving. My family and I live and work on the farm. 100% of our income comes from raising crop and livestock, these kids take excellent care of their animals because those animals are their “paycheck”. No one hands them a check every Friday and they know how to work so they don’t stand in the welfare line. 4-H helps parents to guide their children to become productive citizens in today’s society and it also teach tolerance for those who have different opinions than ours. So I would recommend that everyone who believes that 4-H desensitizes kids to killing to spend two weeks with one of the kids and see what 4-H and raising livestock is really all about. It’s easy to judge when you have no experience or first hand knowledge in 4-H or raising livestock.
I'd like to address Kirby's posting: unfortunately, the industrial farming complex is quite cruel to animals. We're not talking about one slaughterhouse, not at all. In addition, yes, the animals are stunned before they're sliced open. Most of them are not conscious while being gutted. However, others are. This has nothing to do with 4-H; I'm not at ALL implying that 4-H condones this kind of treatment of animals. Additionally, these animals - factory farmed animals - live a life of misery, filth, and confinement before they're slaughtered. Wanting to treat animals with respect and kindness is a basic tenet of decent, moral behavior. I'm just talking about some of the postings here - when people start insulting vegans and vegetarians and joking about eating them ... or implying that it's a vegans versus meat-eaters scenario, well, that just shows their ignorance. If people want to eat animals, that's their choice. But don't immediately start insulting and pointing fingers at people who don't. That just shows that you're frightened to face the truth - when you eat animals from a factory farm setting, you're participating in animal abuse. Sorry, these are well-documented facts.
why don't we start eating vegans? I'm sure they "taste like chicken".
We should appreciate organizations like 4H and FFA that teach young people about food and fiber production and lead many to colleges and universities for additional training and preparation to go into the agricultural industry. Without them we would be a hungry and naked nation. My sons raised livestock projects in 4H and grew very attached to them but also knew where the animals would eventually end up. My sons understood the purpose of the animals and knew they were not some kind of "Disney" character. Today, both of my sons are majoring in an agriculture field at a university and plan to work in the animal agriculture industry. Thank you 4H for preparing my sons for the future!
Here's another ridiculous article by some urbanite or vegetarian who doesn't understand the agricultural system. You grow animals so that people can eat them. We've been doing it for approximately 5000 years, and it's one of the reasons we've survived for this long. If these types of organizations were "desensitizing kids to killing" then we would have a number of rural sociopaths...and let me set it straight that there are no more sociopaths in the country then there are in the city. If anything, organizations show people the realisms of life, and where there food comes from; something that many 'urbanites' simply don't understand.
I noticed that the person(s) who wrote this article are too CHICKEN (pun intended) to give his/their actual names. I am so pissed off about this, I am going to make sure my kid is in 4H this year.
Good grief. "Does 4-H desensitize kids to killing?" What an idiotic premise! When is the last time you read about a serial killer "he must have been in 4-H" ??? 4-H is one of the greatest programs ever in the school systems, and you guys are worried about a few farm animals? What about those 6 cows that were slaughtered last year for McDonald's? You aren't bitching about those. It appears that you want all school kids to be mindless video game freaks who do nothing but sit on their asses all day waiting to be served by their Moms, and later, by welfare. 4-H teaches kids to actually DO SOMETHING with their lives. Whoever wrote this article is a Big Fat Jerk.
Join 4-H it's one of the best things out there. This article has NO idea what it is talking about. No idea.
oh darn! I thought it was video games, Nightly TV news, ScifI movies, bullying in the schools, and people dying in hospitals vs at home that "caused" kids to be "desensitized". Live With Intention, DrBillToth.com/blog
I feel that is you are going to be a namby pamby veg, then you should man up and join the trend of removing your k9 teeth. I am a hunter, farmer and caretaker of the lands in my care. I not only kill animals for food, but also process them with my own hands. If you can't handle it.... then put a stop to it.... until you put a stop to it, it is legal and I am going to do it. Simple as that. Being a whiner is not productive in any circles.
i think that this article is an extreme misrepresentation of the 4-H and FFA programs. just because we raise animals that in some cases are raised for slaughter doesn't mean we are insensitive to the deaths of the animals. I know for a fact that in the 30+ years that my grandparents have been 4-H leaders they have had kids that raised animals for slaughter that are now veterinarians and leaders in their respective AGRICULTURAL fields working to protect farms and everything that farms represent.
I would like people to understand that the kids who choose to raise livestock animals for fairs and auctions are doing so because they want to take on the responsibility of caring for and raising an animal that depends on them in order to survive. These livestock animals are not pets, they have a purpose and in order to successfully raise an animal of this caliber the child raising the animal needs to understand that. I am an ag teacher and when my students purchase a livestock project I tell them from the beginning, "these animals have a purpose and that purpose is to fill the nutritional needs of those that choose to eat meat. Your job is to provide them with the best life that you can before they are harvested" The kids that raise these animals understand that there is another living thing that depends on them and if they don't fulfill their duties that animal will suffer. These kids are not desensitized, they are responsible and well informed people that will become the sensible and productive members of society that our nation needs now more then ever.
I find the title of this article to be both utterly misleading, and inflammatory, as well as completely uninformed and biased. I participated in 4-H as a youth, and as much as this article would lead others to believe, it was not some kind of right-wing extremist, animal-slaughter training ground. First off, it is not a requirement for members to raise and sell animals, as a matter of fact, only a few in my group had the land to raise any cattle. Secondly, the purchasers of the animals bought them from the 4-H members to take to their own farms to add to their current livestock, while this article almost makes it sound as though the kids were forced to push them in the meat-grinder or something. Lastly, since when is it NOT a fact of life that some animals are raised to be food? It's not like hamburger meat, pork chops, or chicken breasts just drop out of the sky. There was never once any sort of cruelty towards the children or the animals while I participated in 4-H. Myself, and my fellow members took pride in showing our projects, and the hard work it took to complete them successfully. We learned to try our best in all we do, help others in our group and in our community, behave in a respectful and civil manner, and to be accountable to ourselves and others. Unless I was home sick the day they taught us to wantonly slaughter all the living creatures in our midst and become heartless cold-blooded killers, I'm pretty sure that isn't part of the 4-H curriculum. I am a better person for having been a part of such a wonderful group, and when my children are old enough, I hope that they decide to join as well. Oh, and CNN, I can only imagine some of the delightful titles you have planned for your future articles. How about "Is Girl Scouts training our daughters to be prostitutes?"........really, this is above ridiculous, and CNN should know better than to resort to National Enquirer-esque headlines that could be so easily misconstrued by someone who hasn't read the article completely. I'm just sad that a group that has touched the lives of so many young people throughout the years in such a positive way (at least in my case, and those in my group), is being trashed without any sort of informed opinion or investigation of the matter being written about. Clever to use comments from the Eatocracy article as a way to make a slanderous article without any accountability on CNN's part.
This is the most absurd thing I have ever read. How dare someone say something so ridiculous about a group that is so innocent. 4-H groups are well loved by many. Clearly, the people posting comments disrespecting 4-H were never in or near the groups and their meetings. I was never in 4-H but have been around it and can honestly say 4-H kids are some of the most intelligent, responsible, caring people i have ever met. This article is an absolutely horribly researched article and seems to be made out of a lack of anything better to talk about, or out of haste. Please, research and think about things before you just go saying them. Rumors, like this, are ignorant. 4-H is a caring group and would never think to do anything in harms way of humans or animals.
I tell you what. This crap is stupid. "These crazy people need to quit killing animals. If I want a steak, hotdog, deli ham and turkey, bologna, sausage, or any other kind of meat then I can go to the grocery store and get it." Well where in the world do you think the stores get it from! From killin animals. It wouldnt suprise me if this site got shut down from being invested with virius and trojans from people like me that love meat. These people are a bunch of dummies. If you vegitiarins want to quit killin living things then you are pretty much gonna starve. What do you think a brussel sprout or peas or oats and wheat, because all those are living plants until you pick them and eat them. Make you kid stop eating chicken nuggets even if that is all he eats and no more hot dogs or ham sandwiches, corndogs, pot pies, jello, jelly, jam, hamburgers, sausage, bacon, porkchops, steak, potted meats, pizza, shrimp, fish, lobster, soap, chicken noodle soup, and pretty much everything else. You guys are so stupid it doesnt suprise me why yall dont want the animals killed, cuz they are yalls only friends. Dummies
Those who think 4_H desensitizes young people to the suffering of animals should see my two daughters.They have raised rabbits for 12 years now and each one is precious to them. We do not eat them, nor do we sell them to be eaten. They see them as individuals with different personalities. We learned all we could about the rabbits we raise so the kids and I could take care of them to the best of our ability. This included giving injections to sick rabbits etc. Most of our rabbits live 10 to 12 years which if you know anything about rabbits is a long time. The get to graze in pens in the backyard with supervision to keep them safe. They are kept inside and out of the cold in the winter. They are loved and well taken care of. They each have their own fan and are given ice water bottles to keep cool in the summer. the building that houses them is screened so they are not bothered by insects or other animals. These are 4-H kids with 4-H animals. They learned all of this from 4-H.
Call me,
A 4-H leader and proud of it
Whoever thinks that 4H and FFA and other agriculturally related organizations are a bad influence can go suck on a carrot. You do realize that without farming and organizations like these you wouldn't even be able to eat your sad little vegan foods? Maybe you should do your research before you start spouting off about how "immoral" and "cruel" farm life is. You see things that the media (like CNN) completely blow out of proportion like ONE slaughterhouse they found that was mistreating animals, when 99% of the time companies will stun the animals before they kill them, costing a lot of money out of their budget to make sure it is humane. And yes, I know this because I've seen this stuff before; I was raised on a farm in rural Tennessee and used to own a Sale barn. Pay attention grass eaters. Research your cause before you bash it. This is why agriculture is gaining a bad name. Way to go, America.
As a former member of 4-H this article offends me beyond words. I raised animals and had some slaughtered. I grew more attached to these animals the more time I spent with them. Just because they are raised for slaughter does not mean they are not some of our best friends. We (as 4-H members) become just as attached to these animals as people are to their dogs or cats. To say that 4-H desensitizes kids to killing animals sounds like something that would come from an animal welfre group. Agriculture is an imortant part of the US economy. 4-H is not creating cold blooded killer, it's an informitive agriculture program that reaches out to the non agriculture community and teaches agriculture kids the responsibility needed not only for the farm but for the career paths they will take as adults.
4-H and FFA projects are not meant to desensitize these kids at all. It is meant to teach children values and work ethics. Being a former 4-H and FFA exibitor as well as an employer I can tell the difference between a kid that grew up working and a kid that was given everything they wanted. These children do not have to be told what to do in a work situation, they just work. I can tell you from experience that these animals are not mistreated from birth to the plate. I realize it is our (agriculture's) fault for the public perception of our industry and perhaps in the past animals have been mistreated. However, things have changed and we do not like to see them treated wrongly either. Everything is as humane as possible and the best thing we can do now is educate the public to our new ways. We are not bad people and I would give my life to keep 4-H and FFA animal projects goin.
Being a member of 4-H and FFA, I can truthfully say that whoever wrote this article needs a reality check. I have seen more truth on the back of a cereal box. In fact, I have been taught plenty about how animals die and that they are humanely slaughtered. I agree with a friend of mine who called this article "bullcrap" (I would have not been as nice).
4H & FFA are amazing organizations. I grew up in both (my dad was a butcher) & I am now a high school science instructor. Am I desensitized to the value of life – nope! Do I have a true grasp of the value of life – yep! I wish crack heads & their families valued life and respected others like my ag. friends and I do.
In Regards to this article,
As a life-long member of 4-H, this article is deeply offending. Why would you blame a simple fact of life on a youth organization? People need meat to survive. If you have a problem with meat, then simply become a vegetarian. There is no need to slander an organization that has created so many leaders. We are not “Haters”, and are continually trying to make the best better. It is sickening to think that this author is connecting animals dying to a youth organization. Know the facts before you write. Most children develop such a bond to their particular animal that it breaks their hearts when they have to go to the slaughterhouse. You can’t just assume that it desensitizes children to death. That is an assumption and NOT a fact. Ask Nancy Grace, another member of CNN, about 4-H and she can tell you just how great the program is. Agriculture is an important program in the world today. The fact that you are also only blaming this on 4-H is horrendous. Numerous other organizations have agriculture programs and are using them for the greater good. We are not creating cold-blooded killers. We are creating the leaders of tomorrow. Get your facts straight! Don’t make assumptions about a program that has done so much. Without these programs the world would be in a much darker place. A fact is animals do have to die. There is no getting around it. This is not an excuse however to slander an organization that is doing the greater good. This author needs to get her facts straight, stop making assumptions, and stop being a person who hurts programs credibility for no reason. I’m 4-Her and I’m Proud!
Sincerely,
One Sickened Individual
I have many things to say to those who think 4-H turns kids into people who torture and murder animals, but I know they'll be overlooked in the thousands of comments here. So I've summarized my argument on my blog:
http://venividiscribi.wordpress.com/2011/06/23/what-i-learned-from-4-h-animal-stewardship-not-murder/
You guys who are saying that this article is bias, yada yada, are wrong. This article is in response to another article eatocracy posted yesterday. They took reader's comments and are trying to form an "argument" with our opinions. If you read carefully, you will see that I (BRIANNA) was standing up for 4-H. I've read a lot of responses here and it seems like my opinions are getting overlooked and everyone is getting pissy about all of the "idiot commenters".
I'm not an idiot. I did grow up in Youngstown, OH. I was NOT a 4-Her, but I knew plenty of them, I went to my county's fair to support my friends who were in 4-H. I wasn't able to be a part of 4-H because my mother was a single mom, who didn't have the time, money, or means to allow me to join. But, had things been different, I absolutely would have been a part of it.
I am going to college for an agricultural degree, I've taken a livestock judging class, have had a lot of hands on experience with cattle, swine, sheep, horses, rabbits, etc. I'm not one of "those" people who are bashing the organization. Please re-read the article and realize what I'm trying to say. The author only took snippits of my comments, so they seem a little awkward and misplaced in this article, but had you seen my original comments you'd see that I'm trying to say that 4-H DOES NOT desensitize kids to killing.
Please reply to this if you read it, I feel terrible my words are getting misinterpreted :(
Brianna I don't think people are misinterpreting your (altered) comments, based on their defenses of 4-H in the same breath that they are scolding CNN. I think what you've got here is an overwhelming agreement, actually almost a total agreement, that 4-H does NOT desensitize kids to killing. I'm guessing that many people didn't take the time to read the first article and I think the "getting pissy" comments are all targeted at the two anti 4-H comments in this article under "In Cold Blood" and "The Value of Life". I didn't find your original comments in the first articles posts to see what was altered, but even so, I think I got the basic gist of what you were trying to say and agree with you. I think CNN has their answer. As an avid back yard barbequer, and a member and Certified BBQ Judge of the Kansas City Barbeque Society (KCBS) I give my thanks to everyone involved in farming, 4-H and related industries! We love our local slaughterhouse...they've got the best meat around. : )
I was a 4-H member and I know my history. The people who wrote this don't know a thing about it. Do they think that since they're vegetarians/vegans that their ancestors were that way. Heck no!! They lived off the land and raised their own animals to butcher. There is no way that they could have survived without it. The technology was different i.e. no air conditioners/heaters. They had fire places. They didn't keep warm by eating vegetables. They ate animals who supplied them with enough fat content to help them insulate themselves. And the clothes they wore? MADE FROM ANIMALS i.e. WOOL!! Yes, they had cotton but someone had to teach them to grow it. They don't just plant the seed without cultivating it and expect it to grow. And believe me, they didn't HUMANELY kill their animals. It was one swift hurl of the axe and it was down. We, 4-Hers are taught that life is sacred, even if we have to kill our own animals. My cattle, pigs and chickens were killed in a slaughter house HUMANELY!! I AM INSULTED to be categorized this way. I know GOD made these animals for us to eat. And if it's in The Book then it's true my friends.
Please read my response below yours. My comments are used in the article, and I was trying to say that 4-H doesn't desensitize people. They took snippits of my comments so my entire point was not able to be made.
Brianna, you totally came off like a 4-H supporter. I don't think anyone doubts that. They were showing both sides.
I just want to say that I didn't grow up with 4-H but I always had a generally good impression about it. The passion of people like you and your fellow commenters makes me think that it's something I need to consider if I ever have kids of my own.
I think that 4 H is a learning opportunity, I too toured a slaughter house, however we did not watch the actual killing. I do find pride in producing my own food for my family, you can trust the quality of the meat, bc you know the history. I was only in FFA growing up, and I will say that I am who I am bc of the agriculture aspect of this! I am now a junior in college for ag. Business and would love to work for usda or extensions (which does 4H. We are not haters at all I love all my livestock and want to see them grow and develope, to me there is nothing better then to walk out my front door to my pasture and pet my livestock. All I have to say is you are suppose to walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you judge them! Why don't you actually go and work and experience real farm life, I bet you will have a different Outlook on the matter and the people!
This is why I hate the media, some random guy that has an opinion and no experience to back it up talking about something he knows nothing about, Idiot. 4-H is investing in a kids future and the future of agriculture, look at your shoes and belts before you start throwing stones. Livestock production is a huge market, which i doubt even CNN could deter from making money. This is a business, not unicef, so CNN hire someone with an agricultural background to write something like this, rather than somebody who is in love with ingrid newkirk, bias much?
I am 19 years old and i will be showing a steer and a pig for my last year of 4h. I have shown and sold a pig for two years and shown steers for 11 years. In all my time I have learned way better leadership and responsibility than I would of if I was not in 4h, a vegetarian or cried about killing animals. 4her's arent killers, and whoever wrote this must love getting torn down and wasting days on end writing a stupid article. Your worse than oprah trying to tell people not to eat hamburgers.
As a former member of both 4-H and FFA, and a current FFA advisor, I am shocked at the author's statement that 4-H desensitizes youth towards killing animals. During all of my combined 11 years of membership in those youth organizations (through which I exhibited lambs and hogs) and in my lifetime experiences of living on beef cattle farms, I certainly did not become "desensitized" to the killing of animals. I was also one of those youth who bawled after the sale the first few years, but I was always aware that my animals were not being raised as pets, but instead were raised to provide food.
As a current beef cattle producer, I certainly know that my cattle are not pets but instead are destined to provide meat for a market where they are in demand. Notwithstanding, I certainly treat my animals with the respect and care that they deserve. They receive treatment when they are sick or injured, available vaccinations to prevent sickness, and the nutrition they need to maintain healthy growth. I grew up as, and still am, a very proud family farmer – one who is proud not only to be a farmer in America, but also a leader in the preparation of the next generation of youth who will become the caring and responsible animal producers that we need.
I am a member of not only 4-H, but FFA as well. I show horses, pigs and steers. Nothing has taught me to be a leader and a better person like the 4-H and FFA program and the people involved in it. I love all of my animals and i live on a farm. You tell me how many kids eat a hamburger or any meat product and really understand the concept of raising an animal and the time and emothion behind all of the time spent with the animal. I for one am very insulted with hearing all of this. You obviously havent ever been in the program yourself and had to go through the hard work and money involved in giving your animal the best life you can before it is slaughtered. With out 4-H imagine how the animals would be treated! At least the kids spend time, love, and care for their animals and give them the best life possible. Yeah, it hurts to see an animal you cared for and loved go on to that meat truck, but think we are feeding families! Not only that but every 4-H and FFA club participates in their community trying to make a difference and learning responsibility. Before you go and criticize the 4-H program and make assumptions about it, go walk in the shoes of the members, you obviously don't know what you are talking about unless you have.
As a 5 year 4-H adviser, past 4-H member for 10 years, farmer and future Agricultural Educator this article points out some serious issues with people's understanding of food from farm to table, 4-H, and folk's inability to think for themselves.
I agree with a comment I read earlier on this article: to be economically viable animals must be healthy, well cared for, and in my opinion LOVED. I have raised numerous animals from birth to finished weight. I sent them to harvest, because that was their purpose for life. That was my family's livelihood, food supply, and passion. I don't know how many times while loading the trailer I would hug the animals, and cry. I am 22 years old, and to this day sending animals from our farm to feed the world has not got gotten any easier. If anything, 4-H taught me the value of life, responsibility, and a strong work ethic.
I respect those of who have chosen not to eat meat, but would ask you to do exploring past what the media would have you know about food production. Farmers, 4-H and FFA members are some of the MOST compassionate, caring, hard working, and dedicated people you could ever be associated with. Educate yourself about your food. Find out where it comes from, and how it is processed. Ask a local facility for a tour. You won't find an industry that is more dedicated to quality, and customer satisfaction.
As for 4-H, it is the nation's largest youth development organization. It reaches children in over 200+ project areas that range from sewing, nutrition, environmental sciences, robots, engineering, public speaking money management, sports nutrition, leadership, etc. It costs the average taxpayer pennies per day to assist in the funding, and has had a significant decrease in the amount of youth going to jail for crimes. The average inmate costs taxpayers approximately $35,000/year. 4-Hers cost less $100/year and increases the likelihood for youth to attend college, and avoid illegal situations. Dsensentize kids to death...well that's not in the mission statement either. 4-H is a community of youth across America learning leadership, citizenship, and life skills. I know I can only speak for myself, but 4-H provided me with opportunities to travel this nation to conferences about leadership development, career exploration, and community service. 4-H provided me with the opportunity for scholarship money, and got me to participate in my first public speaking opportunity. 4-H is the reason that I am in college, and helped me through the hardest times in my life by providing me with activities to make my life significantly better for myself. I am a small town girl from Ohio, first generation college student now chasing Graduate School because of what 4-H has given me. I owe much of who I am to 4-H. I assure you many of you could use some serious research into 4-H. Here is a link to their website: http://www.4-h.org/
Articles like this remind me that agriculture and our organizations need to reach out those who are not involved in our industry, let you know what we are about. Without speaking up we open ourselves up for this sort of accusations that are ridiculous. I hope that you will choose to educate yourself before believing "manure piles" like this article. I am disappointed in you CNN.
It is Stuff like this that exemplifies why CNN is basically irrelevant and tanking in the ratings. I couldn't get through this article without wondering why there are no opinions/ Quotes from current 4-H members. I am also wondering what gives the author of this article the merit to say how 4-H psychologically affects its young members. This Article/ "news" report is sad And I question the Professionalism of all associated with it especially CNN.
You do realize that I, Brianna, who has TWO comments in the article is sticking up for 4-H, right? I wasn't a 4-Her, but I know many people who were, and I attend county fairs to support those who were in it, visit the auctions and shows, am dating a 4-H alumni, am going to college for an agriculture degree, have taken a livestock judging class, have had much hands on experience with cattle, swine, sheep, horses, rabbits, etc.
Like I said in the article, I grew up right outside of Youngstown, OH. My mom was a single mom and didn't have the money or time or means to allow me to participate in 4-H. However, I see the value in it and was standing up against Heather King's stupid comments about 4-H desensitizing kids to killing. Please re-read and realize that there is someone (actually two different people) standing up for what you believe.
I'm guessing that there aren't many comments in the article from 'current' 4-H members because CNN generally has an older target audience. Aren't most 4-H members under the age of 19 (per my Google search)?
I meant to add to my comment the fact that the question is being asked about kids, therefore I don't think the author was expecting kids to respond.
I grew up with 4H, 10 year member, 4 years as a member of the 4H Federation, and now I am an active 4H leader. While in 4H I took part in all the experiences 4H offered. I also raised and showed livestock. While I was young, I never knew how hard it was caring for another living creature. I was proud to raise my own stock, show them, and yes sometimes send them to slaughter. I was the taught reasons why we did what we did, I was taught to treat animals humanely, I was taught leadership, responsiblity, and caring for others. 4H made me the person I am today, and I am proud to have a child in their first year of 4H. 4H builds strong, caring, responsible youth. I am able to walk into a interview beacuse of 4H; I can cook my families meals because of 4H; I am able to teach leadership and responsiblity because of 4H. I know the first admendment, and I too believe people can speak their mind. However, I hope all facts are sought before making assumptions on others way of life. Please support 4H, our youth are our future.
This is absolutely ridiculous. Anyone who thinks this has zero experience with 4-H.
I really couldn't help but laugh when I read this. "Haters"....really? I shovel less crap that comes out of the backside of a cow than I read in this article. I DARE you to find a more compassionate group of kids than 4-Hers. We take care of animals in sick and in health. This article is just more Peeta agenda bull. I thought you hippies were about choice? At least we KNOW where our food is coming from and we aren't as ignorant as you, you freakin' birkenstock-wearing, granola crunching a-hole. And you must know this article is a load of bull or you would have put your name on it. How about you do something useful and write about fast slaughter houses owned by fast food restaurants as opposed to 4-Hers who sell their livestock to local, organic, markets and butchers dumbass? Because I KNOW that's where my animals are going, and I'd much rather people eat that than the "meat" sold at places like McDonalds, Burger King, etc. But thanks for the laugh anyways pal.
The commenter is flawed, in that 4-H is an excellent program that teaches its members responsibility, hard work, accountability, team work, respect for others (and animals,if that is the project of choice), compassion, care and leadership. 4-H proivdes opportuniities for children to understand where their food comes from and how to respect the source of that meat, milk, and eggs. Perhaps the commenter should plan a visit to a farm to see how an American farm family cares compassionaltely for their animals, their environment and their communitiy. Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity.
Ok, I participate in FFA and its the exact same thing as 4-H. These two programs DO NOT desensitize children. They are meant to bring up the next generation of farmers and teach them the many paths they can to take in these programs. The people that say they would " never support these programs" dont realize how idiotic and ignorant that is because these programs are what help you survive in your day-to-day life. So everyone who doesnt want to support these programs are basically saying to get rid of all the grocery stores, farms, crop ground, dairy farms, ect. So before posting comments that make no sense at all do a little something called "research" and maybe you will view it differently because as an FFA member it makes me feel unappreciated for what we all do for the United States of America.
4-H is an extremely valuable experience for most children and their parents. It isn't about the killing, it is about nurturing. I speak from experience, as I have raised 11 market steers, a handful of replacement heifers, feeder hogs, sheep, goats and trained a few horses. It teaches you how to humanely take care of your animals, because if you don't then you won't do well. It doesn't desensitize children to death and killing, it teaches about the circle of life and the purpose of livestock (as opposed to pets like dogs and cats). Leaders and parents teach the kids how to properly care for their animals, and believe me, we all get attached. Spending months feeding, grooming, bathing, and practicing with the livestock, it is impossible not to care for each animal. I invite the naysayers to come spend some time at their local fair or 4-H function and talk to the children, parents, leaders. You might find out that 4-H does a lot more good for those kids than just sports and school. One last thing, 4-H is also about respect, for each person involved in 4-H, competitors, leaders, animals, and even opposing opinions. If we expect children to open their minds the the world of cultures, responsibilities, and opposing viewpoints, shouldn't we as adults be able to do the same?
I have never been in 4H, live alot of my childhood living in the city, but to call our kids who are involved in these 4H clubs desensitized or killers comes from those who eat only bean sprouts and green things. But wait, those are living things also. Our kids are being taught how to respect living things as well. My wife and I have a son who spent the better part of his 19 yrs, in 4H, training 3 wonderful pygmy goats for show. Not all animals are auctioned, and not all animals are slaughtered. 4H does not "desensitize" the kids. For one, it would be part of the responsibility of the parents, to teach the children which animals are "food" animals, and which ones would be pets. Second, unless someone is willing to become a vegetarian, they have no room to talk about desensitizing kids to selling an animal for food. This is just another way to take something good and turn it into something reprehensible. Shame on you, CNN, don't you have anything better to report on??
Hmmm... It sounds to me that somebody Has nothing better to do than obstruct in anyway they can the livelihoods of those that do have something worthwhile. My underprivileged friends used funds raised from auctioning their stock at fair on clothes and supplies for school. And when school started they ended each day by sacrificing one student... That was for laughs, actually most served their country and are now working and not living off of the system. This is just a fuss created by someone that is unable to provide the opportunity for their own, and seeks to ruin the reputation of an establishment that keeps kids active during the summer. And I'm not talking about x-box live.
I'm eating a hamburger reading this and thinking, "This is delicious" MMmmmmm eating animals is so fulfilling.
I come from the most rural of rural backgrounds and we raised cattle, horses, and chickens (which my entire family still does). And I had countless friends in both 4-H and FFA. It is a false assumption that every vegetarian on here is sheltered, naïve, and livin’ in the big city, because I’m none of those.
My background raising animals played a big part in me becoming a vegetarian, which I have been for nigh on 30 years. I, along with all the other healthy people who avoid meat, are evidence that you won’t keel over if you reduce your fat consumption. (You can most definitely get adequate protein from numerous other sources.) Animals were no more “invented” for the sole purpose of being eaten than humans were “invented” to work in offices.
One main argument presented here for meat-eating is that “we’ve been doing it for thousands of years.” And that right there is why progress moves at the speed of frozen syrup. It's also more proof that wherever you are and whenever you are, it’s all about what you’re acclimated to. I can assure you that one day people will look back on this time and be appalled by the primitive and barbaric way that we get our food (and be surprised that we were still doing it in the 21st century) just like we're appalled at the practicies of centuries past. Every generation has its tiny pocket of people who try with all their might to drag the rest of us kicking and screaming into a new and better world.
I do think it’s great that the kids in these programs are more in touch with the realities of what is behind their food, especially if it causes them to raise their own meat or forego meat because their conscience won’t allow it. (I guess I’m just surprised that a higher percentage of them aren't horrified and don't realize that all they have to do to avoid the slaughter of their animal is lead it in the other direction and then skip the baloney on their sandwich. Are they really taught that humans will die without regular steaks? And do kids not come out of a biology class understanding that we’re as much animals as animals – and not all that high-level animals at that?)
Whatever you end up doing, think first. Many people here have done that by deciding to eat meat but do it with the understanding of its source and the assurance that it was humanely treated and killed. Yes, I’d go for a 4-H steak any day before one at the supermarket that came from a factory farm. In this world of meat-eaters, I guess it’s good that programs like 4H and FFA exist.
Two great articles were recently published on synthetic meat – in the New Yorker and Scientific American. Maybe one day in the advanced future you can have that juicy hot dog and be happy (and healtheir)…and I can be happy that it happened without the slaughter of a sentient being….and the planet can be happy that it happened without environmental impact.
I went from being borderline vegetarian in California to a Hunter/Wild Game Processor in Montana. Thanks to my 2nd husband, people can be educated and change for the better. I'm healthier and happier than ever. Thank God for my second chance. I fully support our 4-H program. :)
4h is an Amazing organization and there are 2 reasons the person who wrote this article put anonymous 1 they know they are wrong and 2 because they know that so many other people knows they are wrong and they couldn't face the truth of them being wrong
All this talk about cows makes me wanna go cow tipping tonight. Maybe after dinner. Oh yea, I got four thick porterhouse's on the grill for the family and I.
BTW, it's also economical to NOT eat meat (for starters read Maneka Gandhi's Heads and Tails). The amount of grain fed to animals, and the amount of water wasted on cleaning them can actually solve a lot of hunger and water issues. AND NO, I am not talking about Africa or something. I am talking about kids and families starving in our very own US of A! Watch rare documentaries like Motel Kids in Orange County, or visit any number of homeless shelters and you'll learn about the money facts as well! I know it is in our nature to be egocentric and just think of our own selves, but there are times that call for the ability to think beyond I, Me, Myself. There is something really ironic about money that's made out of the meat and tobacco industries while people starve in the world's wealthiest nation! btw, you can also do a comparative analysis of health risks and costs directly tied to meat consumption.
Not sure what USA you're referring to, but we definitely don't have a shortage of food to feed our population. Also, when we feed livestock, we are turning a grain (which doesn't really have many nutrients for humans) into a protein, iron, zinc, and B12 -enriched product. If you are referring to the poor and homeless, they much prefer a protein-enriched meal over a garden salad and some fruit because that's what fills them up. And if you have been keeping up on the recent revelations in nutrition, you will see that lean beef, chicken, and pork are key elements in a healthy, well-balanced meal for EVERYONE. And how could you say that ranchers and farmers are egocentric??? They raise animals on their own dime to feed the rest of the world...sounds like one of the most selfless jobs/lifestyles you can possibly have!
@Mel, exactly my point! Most folks don't know the hungry and starving right here in the US! Tell you what, watch the documentary that I have listed. It will begin the process of education. Also travel a bit around town! If you choose to look the other way, it's one thing, but if you have a receptive mind and ability to introspect, you'll see the reality. Ciao!
@Mel, PS: To correct your misinfo on nutrition etc, read Heads and Tails by Maneka Gandhi. Good luck!
I was a devoted 4-H (and FFA) member for 9 years, and there were many reasons i came back year after year – I loved raising livestock, learning about the animals i was raising, having fun with my friends, and the fair week that came every July. 4-H taught me more about responsibilty and other lessons in life than school, sports, or even my parents could have ever taught me. It especially taught me that animal husbandry is extremely important, and that while we are raising livestock for meat, they need to be treated with respect while they are alive, up until they are humanely slaughtered. The first time I saw a pig slaughtered, i do admit, it was not pleasant for me. But with my Dad's and 4-H leaders' guidance, I learned the value and techniques of humane slaughter. I do not think i was desensitized to the "killing of innocent animals"...4-H gave me a front seat to understanding the circle of life and taught me that we raise animals with the intention of processing them for meat to feed the masses in a HUMANE and RESPECTABLE fashion. Those of you that are anti-4-H and anti-agriculture in general have most likely never experienced more than your city lifestyles or what PETA posts on their website. The one thing that you have to understand is that ALL livestock species are the same in the sense that they will yield a larger quantity and better quality of meat when they are happy throughout their lives, and yes, that inculdes even the last seconds of their lives. Meat quality is GREATLY affected by the treatment of the animal long-term and short-term (right before they are slaughtered), so it is actually not financially (as well as morally of course) smart to abuse your livestock. This is one of the lessons that our 4-H leaders stressed to us, so we fed them the highest quality feed and provided them with nice facilities to live in. I would not replace any of the experiences (good and bad) that I had growing up in 4-H. It opened up the world of agriculture to me, and I have not left it since. I now work for JBS, the largest protein producer in the world, and when they asked me in my interview what got me started in agriculture, my answer was of course 4-H. It was the one organization that I can say shaped who I am today, an agriculture advocate AND animal lover. I can't wait till I have my own kids to raise in 4-H as well :) Please support your local 4-H groups!
4-H has given so much to the community, country, and world! I’ve been in 4-H for 6 years and I’ve been able to explore the world, interact with livestock, and commune with various races and personalities. Understanding that 4-H was founded on the principles of agriculture; over generations 4-H has broad into various fields such as education, healthy living, the arts, etc. 4-H has viewed and has tackled struggles that young adults and children has, will, or haven’t faced and they have instructed workshops, classes, and activities that would help many 4-H’ers and others self-esteem, shyness, public speaking, and performing in front of peers, family, and friends. Those classes have helped many people and some of those same people are superstars, because they took the time to adhere to what was given and didn’t second guess the offer of a life time. The organization has expanded across the world to instruct many young people into their rightful destiny and better their potential in life. I am a 4-H’er that stands for heart, hands, health that represents me as a individual that betters myself in any and everything I do. As a 4-H’er I believe that WE ARE THE PAST, PRESENT, AND FUTURE to our success in this life.
My head started hurting after the first 50 or so posts. I am a former 4-Her and am married to a former 4-Her. We have been leaders and our son has grown up showing cattle, pigs and sheep. He has a real respect for where his food came from and how to treat his animals with respect. He is growing into the kind of man we hoped he would. He values life, respects others, even if he doesn't agree with their point of view. He got that from 4-H and FFA. Go Green, Go Blue/Gold. Thank you for helping us instill values in these young people.
As a 4-H member since in diapers, this is the STUPIDEST article I have ever read in my life. I am sure you never attended anything that involves 4-H. Not all 4-H clubs are about agriculture.
So if you think 4-H is bad, what about FFA? FUTURE FARMERS OF AMERICA?
Do bad opinion based stories count for good reporting? Apparently on CNN they do.....I'm switching to PBS
Can the author of this article explain how the owner of CNN (Ted Turner) (who owns several large cattle/bison ranches across the United States, ) feels about you writing this article? Aren't you being a hypocrite for working for such a man? Is he a Nazi or Communist sympathizer? How do you justify making these claims given this?
Great point! Love this comment! :0)
For anyone who showed an animal in 4H, most of them will tell you that it always sad to sell an animal. But you have to look at it this way, they are all PRODUCTION animals, raised for one purpose, to FEED you. No matter how the animal is raised, they will all have the same ending, hanging on the rail in the slaughter house. So why not spoil your calf with baths twice a day, spend the hot summer days in front of a fan, or even in an air conditioned barn, getting treats, and as much attention as you can possibly give it. The other alternative that a calf can have is spending its life fighting the other calves for space at the feed bunk. 4H teaches children how to treat animals with respect and how to raise and nurture them. It makes them be more mature then most people when it comes to production agriculture. 4H teaches children how to prepare a project and to be proud of their accomplishments.
And what about the animals killed on the roads trucking your vegetables???? And the animals killed by the herbicides used to protect your vegetables??? And the animals killed by the construction equipment building your homes??? And the animals killed by the lumber harvesters to build your homes??? Have you ever seen an animal run through a sickle bar when harvesting wheat??? with it's legs cut off??? Or a hen pheasant killed on her nest during harvesting operations?? Death happens with everything.
This is bs. I was in 4h for my whole life, raising many animals and everytime I was upset to see them get slaughtered but it's the way of life. all the money I raised from my 4h animals I'm using togo to school. If it wasnt for 4h I wouldn't be the way I am today learning everyday life skills from respect to proper animal care and good work ethics . 4h kids are americas future leaders, ceo's and doctors who work hard for things they are passionate about maybe if more people did 4h our country wouldn't be going in the hole because of everyone being on welfare and foodstamps. Think about that
Unless you were ever in 4-H, then you should just shut up. I was in 4-h from 9 to 18 and in the junior fair board. I had animals and other projects. I would never in my life give up my 4-h days and experiences and the friendships I made. I saw it improve kids attitudes and empower them and give them self esteem including with myself during some very troubled times. The animal to auction thing isn't what 4-H was all about and to just make a blanket statement like that is wrong. I had to lead my animals to slaughter, but that project was not a requirement and 99% of the time I was entered was an animal that I took home. I am not desensitized to the killing of animals, I am against factory farming, and inhumane meet packing practices. I am not however against the family farmer. We were not inhumane. It is the circle of life. Do I see the arguments of vegetarian/vegan lifestyles? Yes. But last I checked people here in America were free to choose. If you want to promote your lifestyle, then use education not ignorance to make your point and don't attack a very valuable program that more children should be involved in for some small aspect that you might disagree with, by making a blanket statement implying that all 4-hers are going to be heartless animal haters growing up. Besides kids cry when you first leave them at school but they grow up to get over that one too huh!
Just so you know, there are millions of animals and creatures of all kinds slaughtered and habitats ripped up every year by FARM EQUIPMENT being used to GROW YOUR VEGETABLES!!! So stop being so judgmental, righteous and hypocritical!!! Have you ever heard of the cycle of life.....well 4-H teaches it and you GAIN RESPECT FOR ANIMALS AND THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE GIVEN WHEN YOU EAT!! I am a hunter and let me tell you I have FAR MORE RESPECT for those animals than any of you who blindly think that eating a vegetable is saving an animal!
I just want to say for everyone crying foul at CNN for "writing this article", this is a BLOG showing the RESPONSES from a different ARTICLE. This isn't an article. Learn how to read.
Folks, if you ate today, animal or vegetable, you killed something. That’s the way it works. We kill, we eat. Not teaching a child how to kill and eat is more damaging that doing the opposite.
For the last time; Bambi and Thumper didn’t talk!
I am currently in 4-H and have been for several years. I am learning how to be a leader, about citizenship, and all about photography. I hope to be a professional photographer someday and 4-H has been invaluable to me. It helped me overcome my shyness and has taught me many life lessons. It has shaped who I am today.
Please stop hating.
The people contributing to this article speaking against 4H do not know what they are talking about. I like so many people who have posted on here agree that 4H is all about education and teaches children about humane treatment of animals as well as teaching them about the responsibility that comes with caring for an animal. In addition, I would bet that at least 95% of the kids participating in livestock projects come from families who make their living from farming and raising livestock... for them (and all other 4Hers) 4H is about more than the project, it's about learning, service, and making friends. Another item that shows the lack of knowledge about the 4H auction setting alone, these contributers fail to recognize that more often than not in the auction it is the kid's friends and family purchasing the animal. The other buyers at this auction are local, and well respected butchers and meat shops. It's not like any random person can walk in and sign up to be a buyer at the auction and do whatever they please with the animal they purchase. In addition, there are numerous other projects that members can participate in, such as woodworking, sewing, photography, not to mention Junior Leaders which is all about teaching participants about helping their community. I am disgusted by this display of ignorance.
Farmers are some of the most tender hearted and sensitive people I know. They work endless hours!! They gently and tirelessly nurture all their animals and their ground from birth to harvest. The children participating in 4H and FFA are learning to continue a way of life that has benefits for many people, even a vegetarian. 4H and FFA also educate children about the environment and sustainability. When readers attack people who choose a way of life such as farming, they clearly demonstrate having never met a farmer or a farmer's children. These people are hard working, honest, definately sensitive and most importantly a priceless member of our U.S. economy.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I am a sixth generation farmer and we are farming that same land my ancestors did. Thank you again!! God Bless you.
People are so quick to judge without ever really being the steps of the person they are judging. 4-H does NOT endorse animal suffering or encourage desensitizing children. It's about responsibility and community service. I was in the 4-H program from 8-18, the longest that you can be in it for. The majority of that time my project was only horse, but for part of it I also raised lambs. It taught me where my food came from and that amount of work that goes into raising an animal for food. I did not celebrate when my animal was slaughtered after fair, but I did not cry either. I am a very sensitive person and a huge lover of all animal and am still involved in agriculture to this day. I went on to receive my Bachelors in Agribusiness. My family did not farm, nor were we immersed into agriculture, but being in 4-H is what started my interest in Agriculture in the first place. Many children don't know where there food comes from, is it really okay for them to think that it comes straight from the grocery store?
I'd also like to add that our country was founded on Agrarian principles and that is another thing 4-H supports. I am so insulted that someone (who probably didn't do their research) made off the cuff comments that will have a detrimental effect on a program that helps so many youth. Shame on you!
Be a veggie if you want to be a veggie, be a carnivore if you want to be a carnivore, but our kids NEED to know what both of those things entail so that when they get older, if they want to change the system of pumping meat full of hormones and putting chemicals on veggies, they'll know how to do it differently! Every 4-H er treats their animals the same way they treat their gardens- with respect and love. If we want our food to change, we need programs like 4-H that will teach us how to do it right instead of letting big corporations do it for us the wrong way.
*Omnivore, not carnivore. I got into a one-track mindset. But I suppose if you want to be a carnivore, you can do that too.
I live in hawaii and my club focused on art & crafts, baking, sewing, speech, and cooking. and community service and service learning. It was a wonderful experiecnce.
"This idiot has probably never spent time in 4H or on a farm or at an auction to know what really goes on. It is idiots like that that give us Ranchers and Farmers a bad name. DO YOUR DAM F*&IN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SPOUT OFF SHIT YOU NOTHING ABOUT!!!"
I totally agree, If these people had there way we would all be living in grass huts smoking and wearing Hemp. Just goes to show oyu what a bunch of over educated idiots that have never stepped out of there concrete jungles try to impose there holy than thow beliefes whach have no merit or substantiation behind them. If you don't like don't go, don't buy, go live in a secluded area and talk amounst your selves AND LEAVE EVERYONE ALONE!
I think we are beating a dead horse buy now.
This is all a load of bull. God put animals on Earth to eat. Dont eat them if you dont want to, but leave us meat eaters alone. These programs are HELPING kids. Whoever agrees with this article most likely sits inside all day and has never once stepped outside the city, and definently not onto a farm.
I can't believe people would say this shit! 4-h is the best damn thing to help kids learn to be leaders as does FFA. I support 4-h as well as FFA I also raise cattle chickens and rabbits to EAT! The food you people eat the is beef pork etc comes from Past 4-h and FFA members so if it wasn't for us you alp would starve ask me if I care bout that hell no I care bout my fellow farmers rancher etc so get a life !!! As for getting excited after a steer sales big means they made a profit from HARD WORK! So take it and stick it where the sun don't shine! 4-H & FFA rock and kick ass!!!!!!!!!!
I have been in 4-H my whole like, even before I was born I was going to 4-H events with my mom. I was one who chose to not be in the Livestock club because my mom explained to me what would happen and I decided against. However, for those of you who are against 4-H in anyway, have you ever been to a 4-H event or been a member. My guess would be no, because if you had been able to experience the fun and educational experiences that 4-H has to offer you would not feel this way. The livestock club is just one of the great things that 4-H has to offer, maybe if your only against the livestock club say that and not just 4-H in general. I believe that my time spent in various 4-H pograms and clubs made a huge impact on my life and the decisions I have made in my life. Cleaning up a community, throwing a dance to help raise money, pop can drives, Learning sign language, learning to be a caring, productive responsible and honest memeber of society that is what 4-H teaches you through the years, how to be an adult.
Ok they want to bitch about how the pigs and cows get killed well then bitch about the ducks, chicken, goats, sheep and horses cause the chickens get killed so do the goats and sheep... the horses have to be outside in the hot weather with saddle pads and saddles on and plus they are gettin worked when all the other animals get to lay around and get to have fans on them so maybe they should think before the put shit up and not to piss off people
I was raised participating in 4-H and I will tell you that I LOVED my animals! I raised calves and gave them the best life possible and really cared for them BUT I realized that cattle were created for us to eat! Not keep as pets forever! Which by the way is VERY expensice if the animal "lovers and savers" want to spend their money saving them, well feel free to realize the cost and time involved with caring for an animal like that. By the way that's hyposcripsy "...4-H promotes responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way and the other was that it serves to desensitize children to the suffering of animals." Responsible and ethical means treating that animal well and not causing it to suffer unnecessarily (you learn that in 4-H what you put into that animal is what you get out of it so you don't treat it well than it won't make weight or do well at the shows). People need to realize where their food comes from - the farmers and ranchers who raise it, not the grocery store! Just remember that next time you go to purchase a gallon of milk or a fresh vegetable! The store did not just make it in the back. It took hard work, sweat, and sometimes tears to raise that animal or plant just for you and your family to enjoy and and turn around and be ungrateful for! Thank you to those who appreciate the hard working Americans who are doing this for you!
-One of the people raising your beef
I think this writer is a complete idiot. I think children should know what happens to their animals once they are sold. I think anyone who eats meat should watch an animal be slaughtered. Yet I was never in 4H I doubt that children are desensitized to death. These children grow up in an environment where they learn about caring for an animal and yes some may get attached to them but they know what happens to them at the end. My children will sure enough learn what happens to their pet cows/pigs and sheep in the end. I work in the animal field and see it on a frequent basis and I have to say I am not desensitization to it but sure know how to handle my self and I know that someday my favorite cow may be sold down the road to become hamburger but that is just the process of being in this industry and that is the circle of life. If she is not producing a calf than she is no good us. That is loss revenue when she no longer can have a calf.
This idiot has probably never spent time in 4H or on a farm or at an auction to know what really goes on. It is idiots like that that give us Ranchers and Farmers a bad name. DO YOUR DAM F*&IN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU SPOUT OFF SHIT YOU NOTHING ABOUT!!!
It is sad that so many American children have no clue where their food comes from. There are many city kids who think that their food comes from the store and then many go on to be uneducated idiots like that writer who no nothing about the industry.
If you don't want to eat animals fine but don't shove your uneducated nonsense down my throat. Vegans have been proven to have smaller brains than meat eaters and it shows.
You said it! It is not cheap or easy to raise an animal or even let them go but as mature and hungry people we must accept the fact and that is animals are for eating! You hit it on the head! As you siad : People sdo your homework and actually go to a ranch or farm and see the real process not just what you heard , read, or saw on tv. Find out the FACTS!
Does 4-H desensitize us to killing, I cried each time I sold one of my animals but it was all part of the learning experience. I loved my years in 4-H it taught me responsibility, it kept me out of trouble and has made me a well rounded self-sufficient individual that if it came down to it I could survive on my own. Now days everything is laid out before us, that only gives people an excuse to foster the "why should I learn that" mentality. Those people won't ever learn or be half the person that 4-H has made me after my many years of participating in the program as a child and young adult. Its a shame!!
The 4-H Club is a very educational experience for children in both finance and the realities of life. I learned profit and loss when it comes to raising and caring for my pigs, along with respect of the cycles of life. My pig was raised in far better conditions than that of a processing plant, and was immunized and given well balanced meals. It was difficult knowing after 3-4 months I would no longer be caring for my pig, however, I appreciated meat products a great deal more after I learned the realities of where meat came from. I worked hard raising my pigs for 7 years, and I was able to pay for some of College and buy my first car. I believe 4-H is a great Club, and very educational for youth today.
I eat them too!
My official post is earlier on in response to someone's idiotic point they try to make but I just want to say a couple more things. We all need to stick to our opinions, they're a God given right, but God did not give you the right to speak lies about topics you obviously don't have a clue about. I was raised a farmer's daughter, a farmer's granddaughter, and a farmer's great granddaughter and many more greats beyond that. We had to sell our farm and move to town because of my mother's failing health, but we all miss it, everyday. Apparently those of you who think "4H bad, idiots good" well all I have left to say is: "who do you think founded this country?" No matter when your ancestors came to America it's a safe bet they too farmed. Farmers fought and died on the battlefield throughout our nations history, they fed the homefront, they fed our soldiers, farming is why you get to enjoy the freedoms that we have, the farmer is who held this country (and continue to do so) together when politicians, businessmen, and idiots tried to tear us down. Maybe you should think about that the next time you want to flash lies about topics you have no comprehension about. Simpler–try walking thru and actually look and listen when you encounter a 4H or FFA building at city, county, and state fairs across this great country everyday and maybe if you listen with your heart (and ears) and not with your mouth some truths might actually take root in your warped sense of right and wrong. To those who think 4H should be 5H after adding "haters" to the mix , what is your excuse because according some of these posts by not being in 4H you don't hate, well it sounds an awful like you "hate 4H, FFA, farming and farmers. Where did your hate come from if you weren't "subjected to 4H"?
Do children learn about the processes that make the world go around? Yes. Do they become desensitized to killing? Absolutely not.
Those naive individuals (so-called vegetarians) who deny man's fundamental need to partake in nature's cycle of life and death are wholly dismissing reality. The advent of agriculture is a relatively new phenomenon in the grand spectrum of time. Man was designed as hunter-gatherer and no amount of PETA-protesting, 4H-bashing or Hollywood politics will ever change that.
Every aspect of human anatomy points to our evolution as hunters: forward-facing eyes, simple stomachs, remnant canines and even our ability to wield tools through the design of our digits. Make no mistake, it is not the vegetarians alone how harbor ill-will towards ranchers and hunters; there is a plethora of omnivorous people who abhor the necessary killing of animals. Such people falsely believe that their ground chuck is created vacuum-wrapped and was never a living, breathing animal.
My family and my husband were all heavily involved in 4-H, both as members and leaders. We all took part in the livestock clubs. In those clubs we learned a lot, all focused on good animal husbandry. Us, and all of our friends in the clubs, have formed strong bonds with the animals we showed over the years. Personally, we kept all of the animals we showed as breeding stock. Some of our friends had market animals, but they did not value their animals any less. They always took great care of their animals and made sure that they had the best possible care throughout their entire lives. 4-H is very important in helping youth learn a number of skills, including how to properly care for animals so they are well-nourished, comfortable and healthy for their entire lives.
i grew up in 4-H it was the best thing i can think of for a child it teaches them responsibility and respect. my children will grow up in 4-H as well.
P.E.T.A. – PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS
I would like to know how many of you who are soooo vigorously defending the non-slaughter point of view are also pro-life when it comes to abortion??? How about preborn babies – let's talk about what is really important instead of this foolishness regarding meat.
I would never defend abusing animals but I will eat what was placed on this earth to be eaten and defend the right of helpless babies to be given their life.
Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't support abortion and do support animal welfare.
Oh no! Vegetarians! They're eating the poor, defenseless plants that are just standing in the field! Oh, the horror!
First thing, every year 4-H kids (at least in Iowa) have to complete FSQA training. This training teaches kids starting in 4th grade about responsible, ethical food production. It teaches kids about proper antibiotic usage, proper handling, feed, biosecurity, and ethics. Those kids are very young to be getting that info every year but they learn it and they are better stewards of the environment and those animals than people who know nothing.
The 4-H program (and FFA) runs so much deeper than the raising and harvesting of animals, although that is an important project for a lot of kids. 4-H emphasizes citizenship, responsibility, healthy living, healthy families, and healthy communites. Where else do kids have to take complete responsibility for an animal at a young age and manage its diet, environment, and the economics of the project? I don't think you could ever find youth that young in any other project maintaing financial records and profit/loss statements. For most youth, any profit (sometimes very little if any) goes toward things like a college savings account. In rural America, the addition savings may make or break some kid's chances of going to college vs. a community college.
These kids can communicate, work in teams and make decisions like no other kids their age. Recently a long term survey of 4-Hers was published and the data showed that the ethics and life lessons they learned in 4-H stayed with them and benefited them in the careers and life.......doesn't sound like a bad activity to me.
As a former 4H kid, I wanted to share my experiences with the program.
Yes, I named every animal I raised, and I cried every time they passed on. The big thing I learned in my program, however, was to give my pet/4H project the best life possible, and in death the most honor possible. Death is a part of life, and how we die is as important as how we live. We were lucky to have a butcher who was very humane when it came time to end a life, and my animals were locally purchased and butchered with great care.
Growing up on a farm, I realized that there are unfortunately many ways that an animal can die not by human hands. I saw pets killed by dogs, cars, coyotes, foxes, owls, etc...Each of these instances made me realize that humans can make the choice to kill humanely, and when done properly, you are giving great honor to the animal that you eat.
As an adult, I am massively against the industrial slaughtering process, but I still eat meat. My family now purchases 4H or locally grown animals, and we have each humanely butchered. We say thanks to the animal that we're eating so that we can live, and in the process we're getting superb meat that is free range, hormone-free, and we know that each animal has had an excellent quality of life.
I raised cattle, sheep and chickens, and did the canine 4H companionship program as well. I learned so much about how life works, how to be responsible, and how to truly care for our animal friends in all stages of their lives. The lessons I learned in 4H have been irreplaceable, and have held me through high school, college, and in to the working world. I still remember each of my projects by name, and I know they made the most excellent and important contribution in the circle of life.
I know my experience may differ from other 4H programs across the country, but I deeply appreciate every lesson I learned, and would not trade it for anything.
My involvement in my local 4-H club was one of the highlights of my childhood growing up in rural Illinois. At the age of 8 when I was finally able to enroll, little did I know just how much my 4-H experience would shape my life, and now my career. I learned how to respect agriculture and the importance agriculture plays in keeping food on our tables and clothes on our backs. I could on for days about the skills I gained from 4-H, but I guess the biggest take-away that I have from that organization was learning just how integral agriculture is to our lives and because of that, I will forever stand up for an organization who undoubtedly has american agriculture and youth's best interests in mind. Never once did 4-H teach me how to be desensitized about animal agriculture, but it taught me what it's like to raise a FOOD animal correctly, care for it, show it, love it, and send it off to market where it is processed for food production because after all, it's a FOOD animal. I don't think that process is inhumane, it's just common sense. I have a great respect for the animal agriculture industry and can't wait for the day when I can teach my children the same lesson. It's easy to point fingers and throw blame when we accuse without fully understanding or experiencing something. I firmly believe that if you walk "a mile in the shoes" of a 4-H'er, you will learn a lesson or two about how much 4-H means to youth and agriculture and just how important it is to the rural communities across the nation raising the next generations of farmers, ranchers and agvocates who would love to prove you wrong.
I like boys! Preferably young, hairless, and unconcious.
I was a member of 4-H and it was nothing about a darn cow or growing foord. Went to camp every summer nothing like this. Can say I love beef. Do we start to listen to these stupid ass people and only eat greans because the chickens, fish, beef, pork and deer suffer for us to eat. Get a darn life and stop trying to run something so smile as this.
I'm glad your experience with 4-H had nothing to do "with a darn cow or growing foord". (What, by the way, is foord?) However, it is sadly evident that you failed to get any education from there given this posting. These "stupid a– people" may simply have more compassion than you choose to offer to God's creatures. And if my infusion of God into the discussion prompts you to say God made 'em for food, may I suggest that you study the Bible. There is says the original diet was not meant to include animals at all. They were included after the fall of man and after the flood. It is also not part of the diet following the 2nd coming–in case you subscribe to that belief. But I digress. You have a right to have happy memories of 4-H. But not everyone enjoyed raising an animal only to have it become unnecessary food. Yes, that's right, unnecessary. Meat is a choice, not a necessity. Any knowledgeable nutritionist will tell you that. PS pork is not an animal.
Actually, it is. Pork, from the latin Porcine, aka Pig. See? Ag Education is more than animal slaughter, so how about you go learn more about what you try to criticize before you criticize it.
What kills me is these same people who are so fired up about protecting animals and keeping kids from being desensitized to killing, are the same ones who want those kids to think that abortion (which is murder) of a defenseless innocent human being is perfectly okay.
You are absolutely wrong, Thinkaboutit. I am one of those "so fired up..." and I'm opposed to abortion as well. This should show you that we cannot make assumption about people. One kind of abuse, mistreatment or murder does not negate another. Just because I want to end the suffering of animals and how kids are harmed by exposure to some 4-H programs, doesn't mean I care any less for the unborn.
I'd offer that people who choose to eat meat are free to do so, and those who choose not to are also free to refrain from it. In the same vein, I'd offer that (While a bit off topic) abortion is such a personal decision on so many levels, it should not be up to anyone else to decide it for someone else. When one person removes the right of another to choose, nothing good ever comes of it, be it the choice of their diet or their lifestyle. Its subjegation.
I should add, our lambs never went to industrial meat processing facilities, which is where the inhumane treatment of animals that most posters mention actually happens. Herring Brothers meat packing is a small family-run business that treats the animals it processes with as much respect as the small local farmers who raised them did. I doubt many 4-Hers send their animals to huge facilities.
I grew up in a rural area and raised lambs for 4-H. This was what my brother and I were expected to do, among other things, from the age of about 10 onward in order to help support our family. We started buying our own school clothes and things like that at a very young age and our 4-H auction proceeds were typically how we did it. Growing up on a farm and raising animals (and yes, butchering chickens to have for dinner) didn't make me a senseless killer. Now I live in Philadelphia and they way people treat each other and companion animals like dogs and cats in this city really blows my mind sometimes. Talk about being desensitized. Little kids take guns to school and teenagers shoot each other in the streets over drugs. Dog fighting is a popular pastime in most of our urban ghetto. A kid beat his mother to death for taking away his XBox this past spring. Our media cycle that lingers on the morbid details of every heinous crime and endlessly reports on death and pain, while kids play video games that are nothing but endless loops of death and pain, these are the true culprits. 4-H demands that you show respect for your animal and the pride I felt when I won grand champion with my docile, beautiful little lamb gave me tremendous respect for myself. The lamb had to respect me as its leader, while I led it around the ring, made it stand still and pretty for the judges, ran through the obstacle course. Only by handling the animals every day and developing a bond can you show them properly. The lamb had a cushy life, it's own stall, fresh hay and lots of fresh water every day, pasture in which to roam, and when the time came for its life to end I did not feel sad because I knew that its life had been good. It had been respected and cared for and would now fulfill its purpose in the environmental cycle by becoming food. We don't raise livestock and expend lots of resources to make them into pets. That, in my opinion, would be even more disrespectful because you're robbing that animal of its ultimate purpose and destroying the environment in the process (land area + feed + water = food or waste, your choice).
Oh, for crissake. Most of us DON'T raise our own food, much less personally slaughter the meat that we eat. But it has to get into that package in the grocery store somehow... how do you think it happens, magic? Kids who grow up on farms and ranches aren't desensitized, they're seeing food production as it actually is, and they're also learning that there is a difference between a pet you are emotionally attached to and a cow or a chicken you're raising to be eaten. The rest of us who have never watched our steak dinner get butchered are actually OVER-sensitized to a reality of life that ought to be normal to us, but isn't because we never see it in person.
I get why vegans oppose animal consumption due to widespread cruelty and abuse of the major meat packing companies. Really, I get it, and to an extent I agree with them. But raising an animal for slaughter does NOT have to mean that you are treating it with cruelty. That chicken or cow or lamb being raised for slaughter can have quite the happy little life, eating all it wants and grazing out in a field somewhere before it is butchered, and professional butchers know how to kill the animal as quickly and cleanly as possible so that it does not suffer.
It's ultimately about respect for the animal and for your food source... respect that can be observed across many cultures and peoples. It is not contradictory to care for the animal during its lifetime, keeping it fed, clean, and healthy, and then butchering it for food. That... is... what... it's... for. The family cat or dog serves an entirely different purpose. So does the family horse or ox or donkey, if it's a work animal. It is not cruel that we as humans have domesticated animals to serve our needs. It is only cruel when the animal is being neglected or harmed as it serves its purpose, rather than being properly cared for by those responsible for it.
Of course 4-H is there to desensitize children from the killing of animals. Children by nature are averse to this and we need to raise the next generation of butchers and livestock raisers somehow. No one likes war either, but if we don't teach our children to kill then who will protect us? If we want to keep eating meat then we must kill. It's ugly, it's messy and it might even be heart breaking, but that's life.
I love Carnivore's beef stick! I savor the cocksnot that he gushes down my waiting throat!
The only people who can really comment about 4-H would be people who raised animals for food and were not apart of 4H. Otherwise all the vegetarians and idealists commenting would like to put them out of biz. Instead of allowing an individual to decide, haters manuever to limit your choices. This same logic goes for why refineries can't upgrade without some lawsuit. Since they can't upgrade they can still maintain their label as polluters or whatever. Raising animals for food isn't abuse neither is putting them down. Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation (CAFO) is abuse, but I don't think those who cry abuse would stop buying hamburgers or fast food. Rent Food Inc.
This really is the most absurd thing I EVER heard. Eating farm animals desensitizes, but TV and video games with dead humans are OK? Our country was FOUNDED by people who raised and killed their own animals, and now suddenly the left wing-nuts thing it's desensitizing? Right! Cause food comes from, "the store," these days, not real life living breathing animals.
@Carnivore
I don't eat meat but I like pork swords, throat sausage, meat pipes, & trouser trout.
@Jeff
My boyfriend gives it to me in the seat, then I do "ATM" and clean his fudge-scented septre! I'm so gay! My breath smells like shyte!
I like when my bf gives me a hot Carl. Then a pittsburg platter! I love to eat steaming piles of doo doo!
Is this what America has come to? A generation of weenie-boy gamers that has grown up in the bubble-wrapped suburbs? America is doomed!
I didn't grow up on a farm, but many of my uncles had one. They had to hold down jobs as truck drivers and equipment operators to pay the bills. I've taken my children to dairy farms to show them where their milk comes from, and they know about beef cattle. Meat doesn't just show up in foam containers wrapped in plastic. So many choose to think it does.
I joined 4-H as a young person, I showed cattle, I grew up and married a farmer and we now raise cattle on a farm in Illinois. We are counting the days until our oldest child is abls to join 4-H, and so is she. In all my years, I have never been involved with an organization that cares so deeply for teaching young people and for mentoring them through scientific and vocational skills the way 4-H does. Essentially, the argument that's being played out in this comment secion is among those who believe in eating meat and those who don't, and the 4-H organization is being drug into it. Please, if you have questions about 4-H, ask a 4-H member or leader or someone who is actually involved with the organization. But don't misrepresent a an organization that is the fabric of our rural communities based on your idealogical beliefs. 4-H teaches community service, learning, public speaking, how to conduct a meeting and how to operate within a group of people in a public setting. It teaches teamwork. It teaches small engines, model rocketry, food preservation, cookie baking and animal care. It teaches hog and cattle production, livestock judging and it gives kids the chance to be successful in a non-athletic setting. And it's an activity that an entire family can participate in – how many organizations can say that? Let's keep in mind what 4-H really is: it's good for families, it's good for communities, it's good for kids.
Um...if you can't handle seeing an animal killed, maybe you shouldn't be eating them. Too many people just pretend that meat grows on supermarket shelves so they don't have to think about an animal dying – it's pathetic and cowardly.
Have you ever been to a local 4H or FFA show. These kids get very attached to their animals and have a since of pride for what they have raised. These kids know that their animals are going to help feed America and are prideful for the animals they have raised. Having raised show animals for 11 years I am very aware of the emotional attachment that you get with these animals. You learn their personalities and get very attached. For younger kids this is then hard to understand why they have to leave but it is also a good life lesson as everything that you have in life will one day leave. As they get older they then learn and have an easier time coping with why these animals have to leave and it doesnt bother them as much on the outside. Its not " desensitized" its reality and learning that hard work and dedication is required for anything in life that is worthwhile. It makes me sad that their are so many people out there just like heather who never had to work a day in their life and have all these negative views about things they have never even been a part of. 4H is a way of life and a very good one at that. Its all part of life....no one have ever made it out of this world alive and it helps these childeren apprecieat the fact that that animal gave up something so that we can survive, and they are taught to be gratefull for that product. Why would they mistreat and "poison" something they themselves are willing to ingest?
So until you fully understand the organization don't go ranting on how these kids are being trained not to care for animlas. These animlas are their best friends and part of the joys of 4H is being able to get new animals every year and learn something new about them. Besides what else are you going to do with a 1300# steer...thats what they are made for is to feed people...where else do you think you get your food it magically appears on the shelves. Even if you are a vegeterian...some farmer out there grew the food that you like to eat and if you are a vegetarian your eating the animals food also....4H and FFA have been a big part of my life for my 21 years of living. And I would also like to clarify that I am also a female who has been involved with raising livestock all my life and charish the memories and friendships that I have gained through these organizations.
I am also currently going to college to become an agriculture teacher to help these kids grow up to understand and respect the very things this land was founded upon...if you dont like it leave this is how we have grown as a society and the everyday ranchers and farmers are not givin enough respect for the things they do to put food on your tables. So yes stock shows will always be a big part of my life and what I do, that is the biggest reason I chose this for my carreer path cause everyone knows its not for the money.
Also true country kids will be some of the most polite well mannered, well raised kids that you will come across we are still raised with morals and 4H and FFA are big parts of helping shape these kids into members of society that will make a difference!
And now the Obamatron zombies and CNN are attacking 4-H! LOL! Guess country kids don't figure into the same Obama equation as gays, blacks, Muslims, 24/7 Sarah Palin Syndrome Sufferers and radical feminists.
This is complete and utter horseshit. I did 4-H every year but two growing up. I may be slightly desensitized to animal death, but it's also because I hunt, fish, and had to protect our animals from harm. Every single year on the day that my sheep went into the truck to be sent to the slaughterhouse, I bawled my eyes out. You can ask my mom. She was always there for me. It was so sad, but it made me a better person today, rather than some snivelly little writer who sits on his computer and spouts bullshit about how 4-H is bad for kids. All of my friends that I did 4-H with will agree that 4-H is one of the best programs for growing kids. It teaches many valuable life lessons. Life isn't fair and people and animals die.
My uncle would bring his calves to our house so they could grow in our pasture. Then, when they were old enough, they were sent to the slaughter to be made into some of the best tasting burger and steak I've ever had. If the author of this post wants to talk about desensitizing people, then how about the movie industry, where movies like Texas Chainsaw Massacre and Saw 17,215 are being made. I don't care for these myself, but I'm not going to demonize the movie industry just because I don't like what they're doing.
I've had to put animals down too; and bury them for that matter. We had a sick cat that showed up, and we shot it in the head to put it out of its misery. Another time, while my dad was away in the middle of the Michigan winter, I had to bury one of our hunting dogs that we loved very much. I, again, cried like a baby. But she had to be buried, and I had to do it. 4-H teaches kids how to be mature in a world of sadness. I actually get picked on a very small amount because of my upbringing, since I go to a school in the "big city," but I wouldn't trade anything for growing up doing 4-H.
4-H is not only about raising animals. It teaches youth about leadership, enhances life skils and helps youth develop socially. 4-H members learn to be leaders and active citizens. In this world we live in today, it keeps children active and off the streets. Our society needs more programs like 4-H to serve the youth. There are so many choices of projects to participate in. 4-H taught me how to sew and prepare nutritional meals. I also learned how to keep record books and I made money from selling my projects that I saved and later used for college. Not everyone is athletically talented, but are very well deserving of scholarships for college just the same and 4-H provides this opportunity. Many, many youths have been afforded an opportunity to attend college because of scholarships they have received through 4-H. 4-H also offers a multitude of volunteer activities for youth as well as adults. I encourage you to search the web for the 4-H program in your state and locate a local 4-H club and attend some meanings and find out first hand what 4-H is really about. I think you would be pleasantly surprised of what you will find...dedicate youth conducting the meetings, discussing business or fund raising plans or ways to improve their communities or help their neighbors. I think you will be even more surprised of what you won't find. One more thing, until you have had to hunt and kill for your own food...you shouldn't go around judging others just because they eat meat.
I also love how many former and CURRENT 4-H'ers are standing up against this. As a member of GEORGIA 4-H we have already seen how our state's 4-H'ers can rally together. Earlier this year, we as Georgia 4-H were threatened to be cut from the State's budget. Meaning, we were in danger of not existing anymore. Every 4-H'er IN THE STATE rallied together and sent letters, emails, phone calls, anything to get people's attention on why they should keep 4-H. Clearly, if thousands of children care enough to do that, 4-H must not be too terribly horrible!
I am absolutely outraged at this article. I have been in 4H for eight years and it has completely changed my life. 4-H teaches youth hundreds of life skills. 6,834,338 youth participated in 4-H activities just last year. 4-H is found in 82 countries spanning the globe. Personally, I have served on Food and Fashion Boards, Junior Fairboard, Junior Horse Council, Camp Counselor, Junior Leadership club member, and tons of other activities within those things. The truth of the matter is, people don't understand where their food comes from, how much agriculture impacts our lives, and what would happen if 4H didn't exist. I'm sure that the left wing nut job that wrote this article doesn't know what it feels like to exhibit at a county fair or know how good it feels to have sweat dripping down your back from a hard days work in the field. To put such a broad and negative blanket on 4H is absolutely ridiculous. 4-H Alumni have gone on to create new fields of biotechnology so you can have meats and grains on the table for your family. Faith Hill, Dolly Parton, David Letterman, and ironicly, your very own Nancy Grace were all 4-Hers. No matter where you live, what you do, or what you believe, you are impacted by a 4H member everyday. You're just too ignorant to notice.
Let's just send all weenie-boy gamers, PETA cult members, vegans and vegetarians to Afghanistan.
The article on 4-H is hypocrisy, unfounded, and biased. I am a product of 4-H, started when I was 9-yrs old, and owe much of my success as a father, a successful businessman, and as a community leader to 4-H. I am now 52. Did 4-H desensitize me to killing – Hell No! If anything desensitized me to killing it might be films at the movie theater and/or video games, albeit, I know better....BECASUE of what I learned from 4-H. Kids that raise their own food through a 4-H program, FFA, or any other agricultural program are much more in tune with the effort to raise healthy food and the sacrifice made. And anyone that feels or has an opinion that 4-H, FFA or the other ag. programs desensitize kids to killing has no a clue of the programs, their scope, or their history. The comments herein re killing animals is bad, barbaric, etc.....are obviously biased. Beware all vegans....I like my vegetarians BBQ'd!
Everyone is entiltled to their opinion...so here's mine! Anyone who thinks that 4-H is awful because of training children how to be responsible in raising animals is severely out of touch with reality...I am far more worried about children being raised in a society that devalues human life by supporting the murder of unborn babies than I am about children learning how to care for animals that will end up on somebody's dinner table
Very well said.
EXACTLY, Jenny!!!
first off im at a loss of words you just have no clue what you talking about! yes i live on a farm. yes i am a active 4-H member aparently you, Heather King are not, in this organization because it does not stand for tearing people down an thats what your all about god have you ever saw a 4-Her in real life we are not about plastic smiles or killing at all in fact i almost cryed when i sold my first steer i swear if it takes spending a day with real 4-Hers to solve what ever pretend idea is in your head then just let me know and i would love to fix your messed up mind any day.
.... this is a new low someone trying to give 4-H a bad name, whats wrong with you?!?!
Wow! I've never taken the time to read through a blog such as this ...some of you need to get a life!
I've been raising cattle for 20 years (city folk previously). My kids have been through 4-H, FFA, and NJAA.
We focus on livestock because that is a large part of our operation. Our kids changed from pink hair, pierced ears, and skateboards to young men who have an appreciation for life and death; ethical treatment of animals; respect for your fellow men(women).
Our 200+ animals are "pets" in that we know each one, provide them with safe food and shelter, and eliminate their suffering, But just as humans have a purpose (or should have) these animals have a purpose. We know the end result and are sadden when their time comes to meet their purpose or their maker.
Amen to Mister Jones and Dennis.
To stay on track of discussing 4-H, the program is extensively teaching a wide range of skills: animal husbandry, marketing, business management, responsibility, goal-setting, speaking, communications, personal presentation, just to name a few, in raising an animal for 6-8 months, exhibiting it in front of a judge, and marketing to the best of their ability. Additionally the lasting friendships that turn into networking opportunities as adults are priceless.
I agree with the sensitivity issue. People who actively manage animals, no matter what the setting, dealing in life and death have more appreciation and value of life in all facets. The more distant you have from the food source the less sensitive you are to the process.
One of my favorite projects at the State Fair is talking to people who are illiterate in agriculture and answering their "stupid" questions. Actually, just the fact that they ask the question means they are NOT stupid........
as are some of you who have no involvement in the industry but "report" wild facts??...
If you really want to know about the busniess or 4-H just ASK.
Anyone of us folks who have been there would be happy to host an intelligent discussion. R.
Why don't all of you who believe that 4-h & FFA members turn into "animal killers", check out http://www.ffa.org and/or http://www.4-h.org & you will QUICKLY learn that animal killing IS NOT what the organizations are about.
As a former 4-H member I'm disgusted at this. Being around agriculture and raising animals taught me responsibility! I understood at a young age what a true hard days work really meant. I cried everytime my animals went to slaughter no matter if I was 8 or 19! People who judge this program have no idea of all the hard work and effort that are put into raising these animals!!! If you have never been in 4-H or had a child in 4-H then you have no idea what you are talking about!
At least I know where my food comes from which is less then I can say for most people in America! I appreciate farmers everyday because I know the hard work it takes to raise animals to keep ignorant people fed and clothed! I'm NOT and will never be desensitized to animals dying!!!! If you actually went to a fair on pick up day every single child is upset and most are usually crying!!!! As for 4-H it taught me life long skills to work hard in life and money! Children from 4-H understand that people have to eat so don't not judge!!!!!!!!
Are you kidding me? Being an Agriculture Educator I believe it is my civil duty and right to inform our children (the future of this country) how to produce for the betterment of mankind. Dogs and cats are pets, cattle, sheep, and swine are livestock. They serve a purpose just like the vegetables in the ground. Yes students and children get attached to the animals. I know from experience. Not only does the majority of the money the students win from selling their animals go into college funds for other children it also helps them attend college. Raising animals helps improve responsibility, leadership, and self-worth. The students who are involved in 4-H and FFA are more likely to graduate college, raise families, and become productive members of society. Not only will the have an education they will be feeding your family someday with their knowledge in Agriculture. Quit being ignorant! We as agriculturalist respect your opinion and we can only hope you do the same!
"Excuse me. Pardon me. CAN I GET A WORD IN?" It seems as though the author of this article clearly didn't get any 4-H'ers opinion or comments on this article. And as an active 4-H'er of 7 years, I would have been more than happy to give him a thought on why we ARE sensitive to killing animals. From the 4-H'ers perspective, we learn to raise the animals, care for them, and let them go if needed. This does not mean we learn how relationships are disposable. In fact, 4-H teaches us the very opposite! We learn to cherish and create long-lasting friendships and relationships.
Just because people eat meat doesn't mean we are insensitive to the animals. A few of our Georgia 4-H'ers understand that this is an act of Free Speech, but please will YOU understand what we are asking? Give us a chance to tell you that we aren't what you say we are. We also think that our organization does more for us in a day than this article will do for ANYONE in 5 years time. Let us show you what we learn and what we know.
This is the biggest load of bull i have ever heard I am a current 4her and have been for 8 years and i have sold meny animals through both 4h sales and public livestock auctions and i get attached to every animal i raise im there when there born and im there the day they leave but i undersatand that i raised that animal for a purpose antd the purpose was to be slaughtered i have cried after a meny 4h sales because i was attached to the animals but i understand the reason im not desinsitzed im educated and any person that thinks that the 4h is a bad program need sto spend a week at a county fair with a group of 4h kids i grantee they are some of the most polite and most well behaved kids u will ever meet and watch how the kids live for there animals and watch the heartbreak of some when there animal is one of the animals that get loaded up on the slaughter house truck and to all those that think that its wrong to use aniamls for meat guess what meatis wat gave ur body the protein thats need for brain development and remember 90% of all everyday products from makeup to basketballs came from animals
Excuse me I am I very proud 4-H er and the auction is exciting only to know that you HARD work PAID OFF! VERY VERY VERY few buy these animals others go to the farm were there raised and treated with repsept. Shame on you for reporting such trash about 4-H. This is a complete lie! I am ashamed of you people!
I am a former 4-H member as well as FFA member. If it weren't for 4-H and FFA there would be a lot of life skills that I would not have learned. I raised and then showed cattle, sheep, and pigs through 4-H and FFA. I have come to respect animals and what they have to offer me, whether it's meat, leather products, cosmetics, or even shampoo, and so many more products that I use on a daily basis that all contain animal by-products. I'm not going to lie to you, I cried the first time going through the sale ring as a nine year old, tears knowing that I wasn't going to see my animals ever again, but I also learned that I was doing my part to support the world food supply. I grew up on a large grain and livestock farm, and will continue to farm and support my industry. In my opinion 4-H and FFA programs are in place to teach children how to properly raise and handle livestock, as well as all the other things that come with these programs. We are all entitled t our opinions and I respect others opinions, I am willing to listen to their opinions and hope that others will take my opinions into consideration too.
Pick on innocent young people. Is that the new "American Way"? They are merely, contextually learning about real-world supply & demand forces of the world we live in.
Sure it would be great if people did not need to eat to live, but biologically-speaking, it does not work that way. Do people how advocate against consuming animals, also advocate against driving? We may swerve to miss a deer, bunny, cat, etc., but most (all) of us have killed an un-countable number of insects. Even vegetarians indirectly kill insects when plant products are delivered to stores/homes.
Let's all grow up and stop attacking others, until we can truly live what we preach.
I am a 16 year old kid that has showed animals in 4-H and FFA since i was 6. 4-H and FFA have taught me life skills that no english class or math class will ever teach me. It prepares kids for the real world so that when they kicked out from mommy and daddy's roof, they can survive. We need more of those kids that have learned those healthy and humane ways to raise livestock so we can stop the factory torture to animals. People say all this crap on farmers and dont realize where their food comes from. Less than 2% of America is farmers and it is slowly going down. My family is one of those 2%. Food is not made in the grocery store and no magical geni puts the food in the stores. Before you go bagging on 4-H and saying that it is bad for kids, maybe you should get your facts straight.
Also, God put those animals on the Earth for a reason and that was for consumption.
First, I do not want any vegetarian or vegan or anyone on here who is anti-meat think that it is somehow right or wrong, it is simply your choice to eat meat or not, one of the best parts about living in this country is our ability to have a choice. However, to all of you who think it is morally wrong to eat meat, as well as share your opinion and try to make others feel bad for eating meat that is the problem.
Second, 4-H is an amazing organization which not only taught me a lot about life and death, but also taught me leadership skills, helped me to find my passion in life, and introduced me to some of my best friends and best people I have ever known. So it is not just about raising and killing animals. Also so what if children are exposed to the circle of life, I grew up on a farm birthing, growing, and killing my own animals and yes it was hard to do when I was young, but I also appreciate my food and do my best not to waste it or take it for granted. So I am not sure what 4-H has to do with anything whether you are for or against eating meat.
Third, to the hundreds of people on here who simply do not understand the animal industry, maybe you should not make speculations about an industry you do not know. I live and work in the animal industry and absolutely hate the term factory farming. Are you aware that 95% of farms are family owned, across the entire industry corn to cattle. Are you aware that most of cattle (even factory farm cattle) comes from operations with 50 head or less and spend 7-12 months on pasture? They only are sent to feed lots for 6 months prior to slaughter to gain weight, which is not always possible on pasture? Are you aware that pigs raised in confinement are more healthy and comfortable than their outdoor counterparts who have to experience mother nature even at her finest? Getting into the science here, are you aware that there are 1.9 nanograms of estrogen in a steak (even from a steer which has been implanted with "hormones") and there are hundreds to thousands of nanograms of estrogen in the salad you eat before the steak? Finally, when my children get sick, yes I will take them to the doctor to make sure they get the anti-biotics they need to be healthy again, this is how the animal industry works, when an animal gets sick we must treat them to make them well again. Overall, the animal industry is an amazing industry and we do our best to treat our animals with respect not only early in life but also in the slaughter house before their death. Did you know that animals which are stressed before slaughter do not go into the food chain as high priced items (steaks/pork chops) because the meat becomes discolored and hard to sell? Now why would we stress our animals and make it impossible to get the highest amount of money for them. It makes no sense. So please to all the critics out there, next time look to the science of the industry and what actually happens before you choose to have an opinion on something you don't know.
Americans and indeed much of the civilized worlds citizens are raised today with no real idea of where their food comes from and what to do if it stops magically appearing in the supermarket . Besides that obvous point , there are entirely too many delusional people trying to convince other people that the fantasy that they live in their mind is real . If the delivery trucks stopped tomorrow it would not take long before all of the " bunny huggers " would be looking for some delicious animal to invite for dinner .
I am a Proud 4-Her !! CNN I got news for you ! I just left the barn a few minutes ago and what was I doin in the barn ? Takin care of my calf and speical lamb !! I think you should get your facts right before you put down 4-H !! Really I dont even know what to say cause all of this is wrong ! We LOVE our LIVESTOCK !! It is hard on sale night but I keep thinking that I can just do it again the next year ! I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU THINK YOU ARE but 4-H is my life and I dont know what I would do with out it !! Everyone 4-H is not what CNN makes it out to be ! It is the best thing that will ever happen to you ! We love our livestock and we care for them ! I love my calf and my speical lamb !
4H Programs have done a lot of good........they teach klids responsibility. As for the livestock in 4H programs, they play a very important part in teaching us all to handle LIFE and DEATH!!! nuff'said!
My food poops on your food. Enjoy your salads. I eat meat, I always have, I always will. I don't try to pick fights or argue with vegetarians about what they eat so you damn people need to stop trying to push your way of life on the rest of the world. I live in farm country and I got news for you. The same farmers that slaughter the pigs, chickens, and cows also grow your friggin vegetables. (in the manure produced by those animals).
I'm an 11 year 4-H member from Kansas and I show sheep and cows. Do you really think we are desensitzed? Why don't you come to our 4-H fair the last night of the fair at the auction? We know where our animal is going and there are definitely tears shed by a lot of the girls and many of the boys. I have shown since I was 8 and it doesn't get any easier, but I know that I am getting better quality meat and that they are hormone free and better for you, unlike meat you buy in the stores are. Buying show cattle also helps you with money management and how to run a "business" without losing money. I will never regret the time I spent as a leader in 4-H and I'm very sad that this is my last year to be in 4-H. Here are a few facts about 4-Hers verses Non-4-Hers...
If you are in 4-H you are...
More than twice as likely to contribute to their communities
41% less likely to engage in risky or problem behaviors
Twice as less likely to engage in drug use
Twice as unlikely to use cigarettes or drink alcohol
Less likely to be victims of depression
More likely to spend more time exercising or being physically active
More likely to have better grades and see themselves going to college
So really, I don't see 4-H as a bad thing at all and if you want to continue to call us desensitized go ahead, but know that 4-Hers go further in community organizations as adults and they are more likely to have a leadership career.
I know that 4-H has been the best opportunity for me and because of 4-H, I was the Valedictorian of my class and a leader in all organizations at my school, so while all you guys argure about us being desensitized remember our motto "To make the best, better" and that it isn't all about animals and 4-H is an opportunity for all. I'll always be a 4-Her at heart and none of you will ever change me.
This pretty much sums up what I want to say. I honestly can say I'd be proud to have Jessica as a part of our country 4-H, or be a part of hers. She understand the importance of what 4-H does for us.
Eat soy not meat! Stop the innocent animals from dying! Stop it! It starts with you!
Save the animals! Save save save them!
You're joking, right? I can't tell, but I sure hope you're joking.
lol...gotta love "Ms Piggy". I think she should've added a "hiii yaaah" in there somewhere for more effect.
These comments about desensitizing kids to killing animals just appalls me. I grew up on a family farm and was a 4-H member and proud of it, i exhibited swine and sheep for over 12 years at the county fair and have participated in state and national shows. Majority of the 4-H members are upset when they ship their animals off to market, but they know it is part of life, we were made to eat meat. I cant count the numerous times i have cried after sending an animal off to market, even if they are just ones from the farm that i was close to. I am 23 and i still cry when one of my pets sows are shipped. These animals that are exhibited by 4-H members are taken better care of than their owners and even live a life of luxury. I know in my house if we had not feed the animals we didn't eat till we had. These 4-H members spend all summer taking care of their animals. As a recent college graduate, whose dream job is working with 4-H it is upsetting when people and media have a negative image towards it, because it hurts the organization.
Plus when animals are butchered almost every part is used for something. I can almost guarantee that the ones who are claiming to be vegan or vegatarain, use or eat something with a product from an animal. Jell-o, the gelatin in the Jell-o mix is made from pigs, along with crayons, leather, some medications, and much more.
4-H is not just about livestock but it is also about responsibility, leadership, and networking. 4-H is a great opportunity for everyone,even if they are not interested in livestock.
The last I checked, the Bible says that God gave us dominion over all of the animals. This would include slaughtering them and eating them. There are many jobs out there that really aren't the "perfect" job and that can be seen as making the average person a bit queasy.... Mortician and embalmer are a couple that comes to mind. So, by the "desensitizing logic", those that have the will power to actually work on humans, draining their blood and other tasks, would be desensitized to kill humans? I think not. The same logic can be said for a Veterinarian that has to euthanize a sick animal... again, I think not. Years ago, we ALL had to hunt and gather to feed ourselves. My kids hunt and fish. This does not make them haters of animals. They have been taught that killing for the sake of killing is wrong and that anything that is killed is killed for meat, not sport. Survival-ism is becoming a lost art in this Country... and the haters are those that don't understand or cannot stand to do themselves. 4-H and FFA programs are vital to keep up responsible farming. BTW, this would include the understanding that farm animals or market animals are bread for the purpose of slaughter. Do some research, it's not just meat that comes from the animals that are slaughtered, there are MANY inedible products made from parts of the animals as well.
Just like banning horse slaughter has caused unbelievable suffering to unwanted horses, these same people think that something as educational as 4H is bad for kids? And now 4H is mostly crafts? We truly are a coddled, soft society whose ignorance causes terrible suffering for the things we are trying to help. Let's replace those last few family farms with the factories and feedlots. As long as you can sleep at night, the lie is ok. Lol god, you're all ridiculous. Heaven help the animals you are trying to help.
Amen. How many horses are turned out in the woods to fend for themselves because their owners don't want them/don't have the means to take care of them anymore. Or, how many of them starve to death each year on the farm because the owners can't supply grain and hay for them? Had they allowed horse slaughtering still, none of this would happen.
But, since crazy people think of horses as pets and not livestock, that ended that.
4-H kids are responsible, confident and give back to their communities! http://www.4-h.org/about/revolution/stories-of-responsibility/
I hope that every single one of you who oppose and/or say it desensitizes children are vegetarians. If you are then I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I do respect that as long as you respect mine, however, if you are not a vegetarian you are a HYPOCRATE and tryingto argue a logical point with you is pointless.
I grew up showing cattle and my children show cattle. We also raise beef prok and chickens on our farm for our customers. If anything this gives children a better respect for life, it shows them that it is important to care for the animals, because they take care of us. Desensitizing is leaving a child wander the city with no guidance, or sit in front of an electric box with a remote in their hands....now THAT is desensitization! How many 4-H or farm children grow up to be killers or gang members?!
I am sorry but I was a 4-H'er I raised many animals for years and it made me aware of where my meat/produce came from. The people that have a steak and then say that we are desensitive to the slaughter of animals need to get freaking clue. Where do you think it comes from. GET OFF THE BACK OF THE AG COMMUNITY, or better yet. why don't you just not eat anything grown, or touched by a farmer, and see how long you last.
Wow, why don't they talk to all the FFA members about this, they are the ones killing animals, whoever wrote this article is clearly an idiot and just wanted to have something to write about. What losers.
::As I pass the burgers around to my fellow meat eaters and chew on the deliciously juicy BEEF: Okay I don't care if you are a vegetarian, vegan or whatever thats perfectly fine with me but DON'T try to force your views on me- I love meat. I was born and raised in cattle country (TEXAS) I now live in Farming country (ILLINOIS) and my whole family HUNTS and eats what we kill- including my daughter. We have all hunted, field dressed, processed,cooked and eaten our own kills- we have all had animals we raised that later became food, there isn't a thing wrong with that. I'm more upset about those that hunt and kill and then WASTE the meat.
4-H gives kids the opportunity to be an integral part of the circle of life in a proper and meaningful way. It teaches them proper care of animals and to VALUE what they have done with their own hands. DO some of them get upset when their animal is taken away- yes which is a clear indication they are NOT desensitized! Eventually, these kids gain a better understanding of what these animals are for- to provide the hungry with something to eat; they do not become desensitized they just acknowledge the purpose of the food chain.
Anyone who feels they are better because they don't eat meat is simply egotistical and unrealistic. Believe what you like but keep your ignorance to yourself- I don't hate on you because you eat only vegetables (I enjoy the occasional salad now and then) so don't hate on me because I'm a steak and potatoes kind of girl!!
Could not agree more!!!!
I made the same point before. Hunting and producing your own food teaches people to respect that food and prevents it from being wasted. Once you process your own Animal you will not let any of it go to waste.
I am a farmwife & vegetarian (& been a non-meat eater since a baby- despite my parent’s efforts to have me eat meat). I don’t eat meat, my family does & I prepare all their meals. I SUPPORT the animal agriculture sector as well as our own farm’s wheat/garb crops. People need to know where their food comes from & yes it does include animals dying to put food on your table. 4H as well as FFA are great organizations & kids that participate are healthy & well-rounded. I’ve compiled many farm blogs at http://www.farmerinc.net, so check it out to read about the men & women who put food on America’s table. I also have a farm blog at http://www.idahofarmwife.net, so read about what farmers do & why.
I just heard of this article being posted to the CNN website in one of my graduate agriculture communication classes.
A small town, rural farming community is the picture of perfect place to grow up, that’s why my parents moved my sister and I to a place so far away from our original "home" or so I thought at the age of ten. I entered this community with no friends, little self-esteem and the personality that would be injured at the wrong look from anyone. In my prior life to the move we had raised slaughter steers, I watched my first horse die after a great day of riding and we had to put down several dogs. Death of a "pet" and or animal was nothing new to me, but still shocking every time. My parents were both avid outdoorsmen, so bringing home birds and other wildlife from a weekend hunting trip was nothing new to see either. This still didn't change how shocked I was when I sold my first 4-H lamb, Jen-Jen.
Let’s start this with the fact that, Jen-Jen was one of the idiotic creatures on earth, I told my mother this everyday, several times a day. I spent between two and three hours a day with my sheep and spited the market lamb named Jen-Jen. This never changed even at the show where she took me down and drug me throughout the barns. Still when I went to sell her, knowing perfectly well of her fate, I was devastated, I was a crying mess. At the age of ten, I realized shortly after I had loaded my lamb on to a trailer, that I had worked really hard for months with that sheep and I still didn’t have champion lamb or I was not the champion Junior showman, but I had earned a high placing in my market class and showmanship. I had been successful, done exactly as I had set out to do. For that I was proud of what I done and I was glad that mean, stupid sheep was to never be seen again. I continued to raise market animals, steer and hogs, throughout my career as a 4-H and FFA member. I worked hard every year raising those animals, I was dedicated to them and it made me the person I am today.
I love a hard days work, I love the beef industry, I still hate sheep and I am proud of that lesson I learned early on. That lesson was, life is tough, I had contributed a quality animal to the food market and reaped the benefits of having more work ethic, dedication and determination than any other kid in my high school class. I was the only kid in that class that was involved with an agriculture-leadership based program. I am now the only person who is working to obtain higher education.
I can not imagine my life without the time I spent in 4-H and FFA, I grew up raising animals, having the snot kicked out of me, learning that seeing a new born calf suck from its mothers teat is one of the most beautiful things. I also understand that I enjoy consuming the highest-quality, safest, most nutrient dense foods that one can consume comes at a price of that animals life. This is how HUMANS AND OTHER ANIMALS have survived for all of time. Raising quality livestock from a perspective that I learned by the time I was twelve and madly in love with cattle and horses took sacrifice, but so is everything else in life.
I challenge any of you who did not learn the value of 4-H whether it was through an arts program, cooking, archery or livestock to take a look at your life; what challenged you, what shaped you into the person you are today? I am proud of agriculture and the youth programs such as 4-H and FFA, tomorrow’s leaders who have experienced loss of something so loved or challenged in some way shape or form will help to make this world better.
Also, I think the 4-H program is one of the most wholesome educational programs in existence. And I have never been in 4-H, nor have my kids been in it, yet. I know many people that have been in 4-H and I have watched 4-H kids come through the program. My kids will be in 4-H.
Just a note to the Katie that you refer to in your article. Thesre is a difference in raising an animal for a pet and raising one to sale. We have dog, horse, rabbit groups etc that show with their pets. We have Pulblic Speaking, Share the Fun, Clothing, Cooking, etc for those that don't want or can not have pets. Then we have cattle, goats, sheep and swine that 4-H members show in Market and Breeding classes. A market class consists of male animals that are not of breeding quality. I guarantee if you ever purchased one of these animals from a 4-H or FFA mmember you would never purchase meat at the store again. For a 4-H member to raise a market animal to the best of there abilitiy and then sale that animal and some 4-Her's have been through the process of the packing houses and to know that you are giving someone quality meat is a great feeling.
If the human population was to eat only vegetables we would have to clear almost every inch of ground on this planet for crops . so the question is what would happen to all the animals? They would have to eat our food to survive Right? Well after someone watches a loved one starve because wild life has taken some of our crops do you think those animals will still be around the next year to take our crops or do you think people will hunt them down. Not to mention that the animal populations would explode due to people not hunting them. sooner or later it will be us or them. the ecosystem is a difficult thing to maintain. It is made up of predators s and pray. do i realy need to explain what happens if you eliminate one or the other?
It is simply learning about life. Life has some harsh realities and death is one of them. Animals kill to eat and survive. We grow produce and animals and we kill to survive. Life is not all about Bambi and Thumper. Life has it's ups and downs and it's good and bad parts. Sometimes we have to make decisions or do things that we might not like, but that is life. Apparantly the "adults" that made this "article"/trash never grew up and look through rose colored glasses at life.
This is absolutely ridiculous! I am currently in my 10th year of 4H in Laporte county Indiana and have learned and accomplished so much. Without 4H I wouldn't have some of my best friends, half my lifes memories, I'd have nothing! As for desensitizing, I raised sheep for 5 years, and come auction day I had to get rid of them because my family didn't have the facilities or the money to keep them over the winter. There was no choice, and I can honestly say that it hurt. Every year I wanted nothing more than to put them on a trailer home, but instead I couldn't go near the barn after fair or I would start crying. even at 15, not just as a little kid. Also through my experiences and work in 4H I decided what career I wanted to go into! All I have to say is, its sad someone has to be talking badly about one of the GREATEST programs in the country. They obviously never spent time around a 4Her or a county fair and maybe should before voicing an opinion like this!
Thank you, Sharon, for that comment. You hit it spot on – because of my 4-H experience, I am comfortable speaking in front of large crowds. I know how to bake and plant and care for a garden. I learned to better manage my finances – because of 4-H I've been balancing a checkbook since I was 10 years old. And yes – I learned what it takes to raise healthy animals, which are the foundation for a healthy food supply here in the United States and around the world as well. I learned about feed rations and about animal handling. There were summer days that I would have rather gone to the swimming pool with my friends, but my siblings and I were responsible for ensuring our animals were cared for first. They had to be fed and watered but also walked, cleaned and groomed.
I am proud of every lesson I learned from my 4-H (and FFA) experience and someday hope to pass those lessons on to my own kids. Rather than pointing fingers and at industry that some who've commented on this article clearly don't understand, take a day and go visit an honest to goodness, real life working farm. Learn about what we do to feed you and your family. Then I'd love to have an educated conversation with you about animal agriculture.
I was a 4-H club member in our local dairy club and also in our conservation club. The 4-H builds character and leadership. It teaches and promotes thinking for oneself. It teaches responsibility and exposes rural and farm kids to the larger world around them. It encourages college enrollment. It is about the local and county community. The fairs are the highlight – times when one can share, demonstrate, and meet new friends.
Farming is the practice that many dislike, that harvests animals for food. Farm kids grow up with this. It is not done with cruelty. It is simply a fact of life. I grew up on a dairy farm and chose as an adult not to get involved with the butchering of animals. I have horses and chickens and support stray cats. I have a garden. Living on a farm, being in the 4-H does not harden you, but it does not hide life's choices. There is no sugarcoating. I don't like the meat end of the business, but then I don't like to see the lobster tank in the grocery store either. Nothing likes to die. Our farm animals hate dying. Our soldiers during wartime don't like to die. Our enemies throughout the world hate to die. We need to stop pretending. You can't prioritize death. Nothing deserves it, but it happens. Lets respect the 4-H clubs and what they do. Let's drop our hypocrisy and be fair.
Thank you for posting some of my comments in this article. I wish there were a few more of them shown, because I feel that I made more valid and applicable points in other comments I made. It takes one person to blow a perfectly good thing (4-H) way out of proportion.
Now, thanks to eatocracy, I have more passion to become involved with 4-H to help educate the youth and the world.
This argument is so ridiculously flawed. I know plenty of 4H and Future Farmers of America (FFA) kids that raised goats or cattle that ultimately ended up in the slaughter house, but they certainly loved them as pets during the time they cared for them. They are just mature enough to understand that ANIMALS ARE NOT HUMAN, ya stupid jackasses!
I would encourage you to compare children who have grown up in 4-H and FFA programs vs. kids that have not. 4-H teaches children many valuable life lessons and every employer that I've ever spoken to values a former 4-H/FFA employee over the majority of non-4-H/FFA employees. The lessons you learn through these valuable programs can't be bought or found anywhere else. Knowing where your food comes from is an important lesson and knowing how to care for a live animal (proper nutrition, care, etc.) is even more valuable. We all require protein, and many of us enjoy animal protein. I encourage you to be appreciative of the lessons learned through 4-H rather than bashing on the program that was valuable to so many of us, and helps contribute to putting food on our tables everyday. Sign your children up today, you may be suprised at how many valuable lessons the program serves rather than just "raising an animal for slaughter". There's a bigger picture here.
4-H is a community of young people learning citizenship, leadership and life skills. They are good kids from across the nation learning to work together. The aren't "desensitized" to anything. By the number of post – it's obvious CNN hit a nerve, and that's the true goal.
The fact of the matter is that you are targeting an organization that promotes responsibility and community in youth. Another fact of the matter is that these animals that are being harvested (not slaughtered) are not only being used for food. They contribute many different substances that are used to produce products you and I use everyday. Everything from paint brushes to toothpaste to marshmellows to baseballs to steel to rubber to surgical sutures is made up, in part, from various substances from livestock. I feel that before you make the agricultural industry out to be nothing more than a bunch of heartless human beings, you should take a step back and gather all of the facts. I do believe that with ALL the information, you might think twice before you lash out against one of the largest youth organizations in the United States.
Thank You!!!
Right on Megan Parr!!!! Love ya sister!!!!
Some people have no idea what 4-Hers go through with raising animals for slaughter. I personally am in 4-h and have been showing and raising pigs for 6 years. I can say that it doesn't get any easier to see your animal sold for meat, but it's a fact of life. And I know some kids only care about money, but I know most love there animals and cry so much when they are sold. So don't sit there and put down the 4-H and FFA industry just because you think we are "torturing" our animals, when in fact you have no idea how much we actually love and care for our animals, and I for one am not desensitized to it, and NEVER will be!
I honestly thought this was a joke when I first read the title. But no, people really are serious. We look at the world today around us wrought with violence, drugs, sexual slavery, abuse, and hatred, and there are really people out there who think 4-H is desensitizing our kids? It really is laughable. Maybe it wasn't meant to be a joke, but I sure think it is one! I grew up in 4-H in a more metropolitan area, so our focus was never really on the agricultural side of 4-H simply because we didn't live in that environment and have the capability to raise animals. However, we learned about the natural world and being a positive influence in the lives of those around us. The idea that 4-H is anything but a positive educational experience is silly, and anyone who has actually been around 4-H of any kind wouldn't assert such nonsense.
As a proud 11 year 4-H member and a current emember of the Agriculture community I feel I must state my opinion. I am pretty sure I cried all 11 years when cleaning out my pens and taking out the food and water dishes. I cried when my father took our flock of ewes to auction 2 years after I was done showing. HOwever I fully understand the reason we raise livestock. My 4-H animals were not "pets" yest I loved them as such. Trust me I am not desensitized to death or killing by any means. Living outside of a major city is disgusts me whenever I see another murdr on the news. I credit this with heloing me to cope. I have had a few people very close to me pass in the small time period, but it was remembering what I sill had that helped, which is what I learned to do while showing. I also credit it with my public speaking abilities, responsibliity, work ethic, leadership skills, thinking critically, learning how to cook and bake, and bringing my family closer together. Even though my parents were seperated they were both there for everything from selection, to helping work with animals, feed them, show and sale. I must agree with Sharon, we all make our own choices, I too am respectful to those who choose not to eat meat, but it is my choice to eat meat, and the meat that my family has produced. 4-H builds leaders and better contributers to society.
"The propagandist's purpose is to make one set of people forget that certain other sets of people are human." Aldous Huxley
YA I am desensitized!! that is why you see all of us 4-H'ers doing drive bys in the big cities. Well all have to get out killing fix. Doesnt the media have better things to write about? People... if you eat anything you are killing something. Meat=live animals.. Salad/Vegetables= live plants... So when you walk out to your garden and pick that nice fresh plant remember you are killing something. Oh wait I learned that in 4-H.
The bible clearly tells us to rise kill and eat. It also tells us we can eat of the animals on earth. I am an avid hunter and I will kill and eat my game till I die. I have never been a 4-H member but from what I understand from the group they raise much better kids than what the streets do. However, if we all followed what scripture tells us, we would never have this concersation in the first place.
I just wanted to state that I am a member of 3S–Shit,Shower and shave. That is all.
FIRST OF ALL:
So ... "carnivore" ... do you kill your prey with your claws and rip through their skin with your fangs and eat the corpse raw??? ... NO??? ... then guess what ... YOU ARE NOT A CARNIVORE!!!!!!!!!!
NOW:
Yes ... vegans are wussyish.
Only wussyish little pansies will stand up for what they believe in in the face of social norm and make it a central part of their lifestyles instead of just following what everyone else is following ... RIGHT???
Albert Beckles - Bodybuilder
Alexander Dargatz - Bodybuilder, 2005 Body-Building World Champion, and a physician
Anthony Peeler - Basketball Player
Anton Innauer - Olympic Gold Medal In Ski Jumping
B J Armstrong - Basketball Player Star
Bill Pear - Bodybuilder
Bill Walton - Baskeball Player and Sportscaster
Brendan Brazier - Professional Ironman Triathlete
Carl Lewis - American Track and Field Athlete, 10 Olympic medals including 9 golds, and 10 World Championships medals, of which 8 were golds
Chris Campbell - American world champion wrestler
Chris Prince - Vegan Muay Tai and Mixed Martial Arts Fighter
Cory Everson - Bodybuilder, 6 Times Mr. Olympia
Dave Scott - Triathlete and Coach - Six times Ironman World Champion
Desmond Howard - American professional football player
Donny Lalonde - Professional boxer
Ed Bauer - Bodybuilder
Edwin Moses - Track and Field athlete, Olympic champion - 4 Golden Medals
Jack LaLanne - American fitness, exercise and nutritional expert, celebrity, lecturer, and motivational speaker
Jacque Vaughn - American professional basketball player
Jim Morris - Mr America 1973 y Mister Olympia 1996
Joel Kirkilis - Bodybuilder and Lifter, Victoria (Aus) Bodybuilding champion, 2009
John Salley - Basketball Player
Mac Danzig - Professional UFC Mixed Martial Arts Fighter and Instructor
Marv Levy - Professional Football coach
Peter Hussing - Boxing Champion
Ricardo Moreira - MMA Fighter
Rob Bigwood - Profesional Armwrestler ... and many, many more ...
When was the last time you used your "MANLY" abilities to do ANYTHING remotely close to what these vegan athletes have accomplished????????
Typical ignorant corpse muncher! MEAT IS FOR PUSSIES!
Look. You guys can believe whatever you want, CNN and sympathizers.
The bottom line is that there are two types of farmers. You've got the tractor-driving crop farmer and the cattle rancher.
You veggie-lovers may love eating only plants. Good for you. Stop trying to force it on us. You may be able to handle it, but there are many, MANY people who's body chemistry requires meat. So lay off.
And as for becoming cold-blooded killers, that's hardly relevant! There is a difference between a cold-blooded killer and a farmer: the killer kills because he wants to. The farmer kills to put food on people's tables!
Yeah. It is hard to kill an animal that you have raised. I'm not a farmer, but I know. I've had to but down many pets myself. Don't worry. I put them in a hole afterwars. ;D
Fact: predatory mammalian life forms on this planet have two eyes in the front of their head so they can judge distance to pray.
Fact: predictors eat meat.
Fact: Humans have two eyes in the front of the head.
Fact: humans were intended to eat meat.
Fact: this can also be determined by examining human teeth.
Fact: we can not provide an adequate amount of vegetation to feed everyone on the planet.
Raising animals and hunting are what teaches people to respect the food that gets put on the table. How many of you non hunters-farmers have ever eaten hart or brain or any of the other parts that are typically discarded by meat processors? My bet is verrrrry few. hunters and farmers have more respect for our animals wild or not than the vast majority of society. I bet allot less food would be wasted if we all had to do the work to get the food on the table.
It is this kind of sensationalistic, one-sided, supposed 'news' blogging that has me believing that somewhere in CNN's news leadership is a platinum membership card carrying PETA trustee. This and how they handled the Michael Vick saga and all the cuddly critter, 'man's best friend' pieces than ran the two initial weeks when the Vick story broke have me convinced. Some 'people' just don't get the separation. Animals, raised as pets or food or left on their own in the wild, should not be abused or misused. But this movement toward the 'humanizing' of animals at all costs is not a price most of us are willing to pay when we fully review its implications.
Education in public schools should include where our food comes from. It is a sad state of affairs to read some of the idiotic statements about harvesting animals. Killing an animal does not include torture. As a hunter and a person who has killed many animals I always want a clean kill. Food comes from animals.
I also was raised on farms where butchering animals was observed and no animals were ever tortured, it is food and it was respected.
HELLLLLLL YESSSSS!!!!!!
That"s what I am talking about
why don't we just compromise and not eat anything.
Clearly, some people are uneducated about 4-H. This is one aspect of 4-H under an umbrella of so many different fields of opportunity. A lot of these "desensitized" kids as you'd like to call them, probably would have grown up with this in their life regardless of their 4-H membership. This is not an attact to just 4-H, but also the parents of these children. For some, this is a lifestyle and a source of income. People eat meat, it's life. This is simply another industry that people have the option of making a career in. Other organizations do similar competitions as the ones described in the article, why single out this one. However, that is not to shove blame to them either. With what goes on in this world and on the television many Americans have in front of them daily, you are blaming 4-H? Why not blame the over-exposed reality TV stars who promote drinking and partying, and become a staple in American Culture? Or maybe the violent video games that not only cause our youth to think violence is ok, but have them adding to the growing obesity problem in America as they become couch potatoes? At least 4-H has kids up and moving and making something of their time. CNN you've got this ALL wrong.
Yum, hamburgers!
Let's get together and eat meat! Then we can eat each other!
4-H? Puh-Lease...kids know more about killing from the video ames, movies & mostly the news.
Is this about cruelty to our food supply? Would it make you feel better if they threw the animal out a ten story buildings window to kill it?
At Least a 4-h Child Will NOT be posting in a Newspaper......Thinking Meat at the Grocery store Came from a Box and NO animals were harmed in the Process. Shame on You CNN for putting down a Program for Children that gets them away from the T.V. and video games. 4-H is about Family, and Hard work that gets rewarded.
For people freaking out about the title of the article and/or the "content" might I suggest re-reading?
First, the title. You will notice the "?" a the end of the sentence, this means the author is asking a question and not stating a point. It does NOT say the 4-H does desensitize kids to killing nor does it say that the 4-H does NOT desensitize kids to killing, rather it is asking for you to form an opinion.
Now what are you to use to form an opinion one way or ther other? Let's take a look at the supporting sentences. Notice the line that says "here's what our commenters had to say:" The " : " means that the selections that follow are taken from the comment section of a previous article. If you look at the individual paragraphs you will notice the contributor's name is included showing who it was that supplied that original opinion.
If you read all of the supporting commenters' comments you will notice that they are falling on both sides of the fence, this way a person can read opinions from multiple angles before answering the original question.
For those going after CNN for promoting PETA's agenda I suggest reading the original 5@5 article which clearly paints 4-H in a VERY favorable light.
Don't need to reread. This should not have ever been a story regardliss of what the title or content is.
Then you shouldn't have spent time reading it the first time or even bothering to comment on it. Take your stupid hipster attitude outta here and get a life. You apparently don't have one if you're willing to read articles you don't care about and read comments on an article you don't care about and reply to comments you supposedly don't care about. kthanks.
Earkthered! I own a farm. I make my living from raising beef and famring. All this story does is put ideas into peoples head about how bad eating meat is and how bad 4-H is. It is clear that you do not read before posting.
@kayakerjess, This is why my family choices to eat our own animals. We eat the heifers born twin to a bull, they are unable to reproduce. I live on a dairy farm and we take the best care possible to make sure they are healthy and live long comfortable lives. Including the best diet, comfortable clean housing and even emergency vet services when something goes wrong. I still hate having to sell cows for meat when they have reached the end of their life. And that is the only case that I will. I love my cows. I agree there are problems here. But know one knows how to go about it. Stop going after the group and focus on the individual. Feeding America and attacked for it.
Does no one realize that we have already been desensitized as a society to animal cruelty and death? Most Americans have never killed their own source of meat, let alone seen the process, yet make it a daily habit to buy and eat meat they are not connected to. They have no idea how the animal has been raised, nourished, treated, killed and processed. That is real desenitization! Our culture lives paralell to Marx's fetishism of commodities. While we all (I hope) realize that the hamburger meat we buy at Buger King or the steaks we by at the grocery store come from animals, most don't even have a clue (and even more don't want to know) what an animal goes through from birth to plate. If anything 4H is making people more aware and appreciative of the fact that life is beautiful, precious and needs to be respected. Factory Farming- the source of close to 90% of America's meat- has no value or respect for the lives of animals. No one is asking you to be vegetarian, but bottom line: if you want to claim to live with integrity you should be willing and able to kill what you eat, otherwise you're just another hipocrite and we have enough of those.
That doesn't make sense. If that desensitizes us to animals being injured or dying, why do we keep pets and protect them like they were a family member? We have some animals that were domesticated for food, and some for pets. Claiming that it's all correlated is a flawed analysis.
Our nation (America) has become infested with pansies and weak willed youth who only see violence on screen. They have become cold hearted to fellow man and over protective of livestock. Go online and the video of a man getting beaten gets humorous comments while that of a dog getting hit gets death threats...Schools should raise livestock and have a BBQ at the end of the year with those animals...Teach them what death trully is, a part of life ...not some voyeur fuellled web broadcast... they would respect the animals sacrifice and gain value from it...todays youth barely have an idea what leather is let alone where gelatin comes from...
The animal shown above is not raised for meat. Whoever started this should be better informed. Animal welfare/rights is a complicated issue. If you want to start a intellectually useful debate, at least get the basics right.
LOL I thought the same thing. Dairy heifers only become McDonald's hamburgers when they don't produce a high yield of milk anymore. It wasn't the intended purpose of the animal, just a byproduct. I guess you can't expect too much from people who actually gave this silly idea some dumbA put into their heads an article all of it's own.
I don't know if anyone will read this, but being in 4H was one if the best experiences of my life. I ended up showing lambs for six years and went on to become president of my FFA chapter when I was a senior in high school. My family was not agricultural, but being in 4H and FFA taught me about the food we eat and how it gets to the table. Take it from someone who had a terrible home life as a child, that lamb I raised was my best friend that went on to breed more animals. If that makes 4H unethical, then I guess that makes me unethical, and I don't have a problem with that.
As a current 4-Her I was taught the difference between animal rights and animal welfare. Animal rights is a philosophy where followers believe animals should not be used for human benefit, and the animal should have the same rights as humas. Animal welfare supporters (including me) agree that animals should be treated with respect. I have raised market projects for 6 years, and sold them at the county auction. The first few my friends and I would cry and were sad that our animals were going to be slaughtered. We learned that these animals were raised to be part of the food cycle, and their were other animals that we kept to be pets and breeding stock
This response is one of the best posted. It's eloquent, well-written and worded, it shows the character of the writer. And you know how the writer learned to be all of those things? 4-H. Because kids who are active in 4-H aren't just participating.... It become a part of them. Their parents are active, they eat meals as a family and I can promise you that when they screw up, they get grounded. They have a good "head" on their shoulders, a kind "heart", strong "hands" and live a "healthy" lifestyle. These kids grow up to run this country. And I for one would like that particular tradition to continue. I learned so much more than raising animals. I was a state council member and participated in the 4-H Exchange program. I saw the great USA and paid for college .
Animal raising is such a small part of what makes 4-H great but it's done well, with respect for the animals and high quality education for the youngsters involved. My kiddos are young but I can't wait to be a 4-H mom. Just as many fathers out there can't wait for their boys to e boy scouts. This article is very down the middle and I applaud CNN (that is not said lightly!) on their reporting. The bulk of the responses are in support of 4-H and those that aren't well, you can read them for yourself.
4-H, FFA, Boy and Girl Scouts of America, YMCA's.... These are the organizations who create the men and women of this country that are worth knowing. Support them, do not belittle them.
I credit 4-H with so many positive impacts on my life. Public speaking, critical thinking, Responsibility, dedication, work ethics, and how to be an active member of society just to name a few. However, focusing on the "desensitizing" issue, I would like to respectfully call "bull" on. While showing livestock for many years I learned valuable lessons on where our food comes from, the correct way to raise and slaughter livestock, and how to respect not only those who raise our food- but the animals that would become my food. While 4-H is much more than livestock projects- to blanket those projects are harmful to youth shows the ignorance of those who have only read the negative and ignored the 99% of the positive and humane interactions youth have with their food source. And while I am respectful of those who chose to refrain from meat- I encourage you to also be respectful of those who do, those who raise livestock, and those who process livestock to provide a safe and affordable food source. And respect is the true lesson of 4-H.
@EriktheRed, read Maneka Gandhi's Heads and Tails. Highly Recommended. If you have a receptive mind, you would get answers to a lot of your questions. Ciao!
sorry. I can't resist. Which question are you referring to? If vegetarians know that plants are alive, or if they can be anymore self-righteous?
I know that plants are as alive as we, or any animal are. I do have a rather receptive mind, or I at least try to have one anyway. However, I'm not sure if vegetarians can get anymore self-righteous, but I'm sure I'll be proven wrong about that. lol.
@EriktheRed, uh oh! again a question! READ the book that I mentioned- you'll understand the fallacy of equating animals with plants. It answers all those popular-mythical questions/arguments, and much more. Ciao!
I don't think you should hate on it if you've never been in 4-H.
#enoughsaid
Really? I have been involved with 4-H, FFA, and the agriculture industry all of my life. When I was a kid, I didn't sell my animals as they weren't meant to be eaten, all of my friends were in the species that were sold for food. All of those members would take all of their earnings from their sale, and add them to their college fund. Many agricultural colleges that support these programs in their state even give full scholarships to students that stay in the program long enough. Desensitizes children from death? No this shows students the process of how their food is produced, and gives them a strong work ethic that any employer would kill for. Being a student at the Culinary Institute of America I understand the process that all of my products take from field or pasture to my clients' mouths.
To all the Vegetarians out there. Shhhhuuuuuuut Uuuuuuuuup! You do know that plants are living things as well right?!? To be honest we need them more than the animals right now, because they take carbon dioxide from the air and produce oxygen!!! Just because a plant doesn't have eyes, a nose, or a mouth doesn't mean it's not a living creature. All in all you kill stuff for food, and meat eaters kill stuff for food. Can you people be anymore self-righteous?
Exactly, I thought they sounded normal before. Now they're starting to sound like those hardcore religious die-hards.
@LOVELY MISHRA
You have misinfo about India and Hindus, and yet you're overgeneralizing it. I'll do a few corrections, and hope that you start reading a lot more.
You say, "Most Indians are vegetarians."
I say- WRONG! Most Indians (52%) are non-vegetarians.
You say, "in India the cow is a sacred animal, but this is where the hypocrisy starts."
I say- Yes, for many folks it is, but India is also the largest exporter of beef in Asia. You seem to live in either/or world of extremes- but the reality if more varied. For example, many Hindus or any religious groups living in the coastal areas have always consumed fish, while many in the landlocked areas see it as against their idea of vegetarianism.
You say, "While most hindus do not eat meat, they consume dairy products and also do not hesitate to wear leather jackets and shoes and carry leather handbags."
I ask- Why is it a Hindu issue? It is a question that everyone whole believes in animal rights and calls him/her a vegetarian needs to think about, but it defeats the purpose when you make it a religious issue? I know Muslims who are vegetarian? Should I make it a Muslim issue? Meanwhile, start with Maneka Gandhi's book titled Heads and Tails.
You say, "Don't they realize that once the cow stops producing milk she is set free on the streets, surviving on garbage and plastic bags."
I say- True (you got one!), and this is why PFA and other groups in India have started creating awareness and raising funds for stray and abandoned animals. It is no different than Indians or any x, y, z, who talk big about child labor and yet employ young kids to work for them! or stay quiet when they see children working in small restaurants. I bet you have seen these things and remained quiet. I wonder why?
You say, "And where do they think leather comes from ? Do they think leather grows on trees?"
I say- Of course they know, but what I don't know is why you think it's a Hindu issue? Religion is not a monolithic entity. You'll find Hindus and Muslims who believe in killing animals, and those who don't! Just like within Indian context even Sikhs and Christians have upper and lower castes among them- something that was unheard of! It tells you religions adapts to the local good, bad, and ugly traditions. For you to paint everything with the broad brush is rather naive. Alright, hope you now actually start reading- education is a good start to break the shackles of ignorance. Good luck!
The majority of 4-H programs are now located in inner city schools and are less and less agrarian, even in rural communities – more and more sewing, cooking, nutrition, physical exercise, bicycle safety, photography, woodworking, some horticulture, electricity, crafts, "create your own" projects, leadership projects and way less livestock. Really? Of all the things to attack? A program that instills leadership and gives opportunities to youths who otherwise wouldn't have them? Get off your high horse. No pun intended. Also, the livestock that is slaughtered is sold at auction to local butchers and/or grocery stores – the youths never see or partake in the killing of the animal. Some donors who buy the animal at auction (all the money goes to the youth who raised it – usually for a college fund) even give back the animal to the youth because they only bid for charitable purposes / local campaigning. Next time, please consult your local 4-H extension office for facts.
PURE STUPIDITY!! Plain and simple. First we allowed the sexul deviants to destroy the boy scouts. Now I guess 4-H is next on the list. Guess what folks. Not so long ago, the overwhelming majority of Americans were all "desensitized killers" (meaning rural dwellers and agriculturally oriented). And guess what folks. Back then, kids didn't go around shooting up their high schools and killing their classmates and teachers. Nor did they go around sexually assaulting their preadolescent playmates. Today we have kids with rings in their noses who sit on their rear ends for hours and hours a day playing 'murder simulating' video games and listening to blatant glorification of violence on their i-pods, and nobody seems to have much of a problem with that. But if a kid takes an interest in agriculture and wants to work hard and raise an angus for market....QUICK, CALL A COUNSELOR! I realize that the person who wrote this article is just one person and their stupidity is not representative of the entire media, but when you have an orgaization like CNN actually giving that person a platform, it makes you wonder. (God bless 4-H. There is nothing more American.)
I am a past Tri-Dam 4-H member, and I believe that every child should have to raise and auction a livestock animal at some point in their life. It teaches responsibility, independence, hard work and the way of life. In REALITY, livestock animals are bred to eventually be utilized in many different ways, including feeding people around the world. The food we demand here in the US does not magically appear from the sky, there are many hard working and heart felt people out there that make sure the demand is matched with a supply.
I had raised livestock animals from the age of 8 to 18 years old, and here I am now putting myself through college on a budget built upon my earnings through those ten years. I am proud to say through 4-H and FFA I have grown to be a responsible, hard working, ambitious and loving person.
Give me a break, are you going to take away FFA next? I was raised on a small farm. I was hunting when I was 10. Dont send your kids to 4-H then, it was good for me and good for any kid. Because of 4-H, I was able to learn alot about life. You cant hide the world from kids. Stupid article, put kids in a rooom and lock the key is the only way huh.
This is ridiculous. If you don't like meat, don't eat it. I'm not forcing it down your throat. But for the love of GOD stop with this stupid moralistic love-all-living-creatures overkill (pun intended). You know what I find truly ironic and hypocritical? SO many of these IDIOTS are the same people that are pro-choice. You really REALLY shouldn't be able to have it both ways.
Oh, and I'm not a republican or right wing. I am a center-leaning liberal and proud Obama supporter, but sometimes I am ashamed of the fools we have to deal with in the "liberal alliance." Just as bad as the nut job Tea Party/Sarah Palin contingent.
Would you ignorant drones prefer these kids to mindlessly consume meat (like the MAJORITY of the country does), or could you perhaps drop the vegan activism for just a moment and see this organization for what it is: a life lesson. You all like to think that you are better (perhaps more EVOLVED) than your "savage" ancestors. Well, let me tell you, you most certainly are NOT! Millions of people in this country consume meat without ever knowing what it takes to put that meat on the table, I suppose to them IGNORANCE IS BLISS. I grew up hunting and fishing to sustain our family and neighbors. I never even had a an ounce of protein that I didn't harvest myself until I was in my teens and moved to a big city. These kids, (as well as the program), deserve a standing ovation. Kudos to the parents who have the foresight to raise their children to be self sustaining. I'm ashamed that CNN runs a story with this headline. This network has become as corporate as Fox. DOWN WITH RED JOURNALISM!!!
@LOVELY MISHRA
You have misinfo about India and Hindus, and yet you're overgeneralizing it. I'll do a few corrections, and hope that you start reading a lot more.
You say, "Most Indians are vegetarians." WRONG! Most Indians (52%) are non-vegetarians.
You say, "in India the cow is a sacred animal, but this is where the hypocrisy starts." Yes, for many folks it is, but India is also the largest exported of beef in Asia. You seem to live in either/or world of extremes- but the reality if more varied.
You say, "While most hindus do not eat meat, they consume dairy products and also do not hesitate to wear leather jackets and shoes and carry leather handbags." Why is it a Hindu issue? It is a question that everyone whole believes in animal rights and calls him/her a vegetarian needs to think about, but it defeats the purpose when you make it a religious issue? I know Muslims who are vegetarian? Should I make it a Muslim issue? Meanwhile, start with Maneka Gandhi's book titled Heads and Tails.
You say, "Don't they realize that once the cow stops producing milk she is set free on the streets, surviving on garbage and plastic bags." True (you got one!), and this is why PFA and other groups in India have started creating awareness and raising funds for stray and abandoned animals. It is no different than Indians or any x, y, z, who talk big about child labor and yet employ young kids to work for them! or stay quiet when they see children working in small restaurants. I bet you have seen these things and remained quiet. I wonder why?
You say, "And where do they think leather comes from ? Do they think leather grows on trees?" Of course they know, but what I don't know is why you think it's a Hindu issue? Religion is not a monolithic entity. You'll find Hindus and Muslims who believe in killing animals, and those who don't! Just like within Indian context even Sikhs and Christians have upper and lower castes among them- something that was unheard of! It tells you religions adapts to the local good, bad, and ugly traditions. For you to paint everything with the broad brush is rather naive. Alright, hope you now actually start reading- education is a good start to break the shackles of ignorance. Good luck!
As a 4-H alumni that took many lessons from the projects done, I didn't see anyone desensitized. Perhaps having a reality of where food comes from is seen as cruel or desensitized but is it better to be dependent on others and processed almost like meat products? How about the processed synthetic meat from human poop, or processed soy that has far more processing than a cut of beef? 4-H teaches a wide variety of positive things, which many in the US would benefit from.
Those who say it's raising kids to have no feeling/sensitivity have never been to the fair when the kids have to sell the pig/goat/sheep/steer ... Perhaps there would be more vegetarians if ALL kids learned this lesson? Additionally, there are a lot of kids/people who have an insensitivity to animals who never partoook in 4-H - explain that please.
How ridiculous– the idea that 4-H desensitizes youths to the killing of animals for food. Only some radical militant vegan would come up with that crap.
I was traumatised by the horrible and inhumane – and yes, indefensible – things that were done to carrots. No one seems to understand that they are living entities and we must take care to not harm our carrots.
I find this entire thread somewhat unbelievable. People eat animals and (usually) kill them before doing so. Killing for food desensitizes you only to killing for food. This natural and is not limited to 4-H ... I remember eating a pig named Sadie – she was raised for food, named and eaten.
Exactly, killing for killing's sake (like what gangs and criminals do) is obviously unnatural and immoral, but killing for food is completely natural, so the argument that eating meat makes you less of a human is retarded. If that makes us non-human, I guess the vegetarians would be pushing for annulment of our human rights next.
4-H Kid – 13 years old and mature beyond his/her years. This is why I am proud to support 4-H.
I spent ten years in 4H and learner many wonderful things. I raised and sold many animals. The money I earned went toward my college education. These animals were VERY well taken care of, living in large pens and eating pricey food. Yes, I felt bad, but I knew I took good care of them and they had a good life. 4H taught my the value of life and respect for others, including animals. Join 4H and see for youself what the have to offer. Our country needs the values that 4H teaches, now more than ever.
OMG this makes me so mad! My local 4-H club was an incredible, life-changing experience for me (Go Town & Country Hillbillies!). Not only did it help prepare me for college, help me get scholarships, and let me participate in the county fair in a way that is just so fun and amazing, but I developed friendships I know will last me the rest of my life, and I figured out what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Yes, I took market steers during my last few years, and yes, almost all the animals were being taken as food animals for market and would therefore eventually be killed, but I did not meet any single child who was desensitized to killing. In fact, many of the kids became so attached to their projects it wasn't uncommon to see kids crying after the sale at the idea of having to give up their pet! If exposure to experiences that will only help kids learn necessary skills they will carry into adulthood is not an opportunity that is desirable for our youth, there is a serious problem with the people of this country. SUPPORT 4-H, and don't let this propaganda spread. It's one thing to push for animal rights (hey, everybody has a right to their own opinion), but this is just ridiculous. This is one of the best programs out there for American children today, and it does not deserve this negative label.
Don't be opposed to meat in general, but everyone should be aware and very skeptical of the industrialization of the American food supply. Chemicals upon chemicals heaped onto our vegetables and into the water table in the name of the almighty dollar. Chicken houses are off limits to journalists or cameras because they are so horrendous. And, you cannot convince me that a slaughterhouse that processes cows in such masses can possibly ensure the cleanliness of all of that meat. They walk off the feed lot covered in excrement, after all...
Seriously? If anything it teaches kids about real life...caring about the environment, caring for animals, and knowing what really happens before the burger lands on their plate. it's a tough lesson and hard for kids to let that animal go up for auction after caring for it for so long, but that is reality and we need to stop sheltering our kids from that.
all you "christians" read history. jesus was more than likely vegetarian! yep, sorry to burst your christian bubble.
maybe, maybe not, but there is only one of him, the rest of us arent him, that choice was his, my choice is mine
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but I couldn't resist. Just exactly WHERE does it indicate this in the Bible? As someone whose read hers' pretty intensively, I'd love to know what tidbit of information I've missed here.
Meanwhile–here's what I've got–In Luke 24: 42-43, we see Jesus eating a piece of broiled fish given to him by his disciples. Another time he sat on a hillside and fed people loaves and fish. And another time told a story about a father who killed the "fatted calf" in celebration of his son's return. And–of course–there's the famed Passover feast (the last supper) in which they ate lamb. Also, Jesus dispelled the tradition of clean and unclean meat when he spoke to Peter by way of a vision in Acts 10:10-15 when he was making him understand that the Gentiles were just as important in the kingdom of God as the Jews were. And–one last thing–In Romans, the Apostle Paul stated that one man's faith may let him eat anything and another only vegetables, but both are loved by God. So if he was vegetarian, he did a good job of disguising it.
Unless these detractors are vegans, they should shut the h3ll up. I'm willing to bet at least some of them just prefer their meat in neat little styrfoam and saran wrap packages.
You can tell some of you idiots have probably never stepped outside of a city block and have no idea what goes on in 4-h. Most kids grow attached to their animals, because you know, people are emotional beings. The worst part about it is selling or auctioning it off. What kids learn, is reality. It doesn't desensitize them, rather helps them mature.. The problem is oversensitive idiots like some of the commenters featured in this article who have been pampered their whole life that do not understand reality and know nothing about livestock other than that they can eat it at McDonalds.
the question is WHY do we eat meat, wear leather, but love our dogs? let's shift the question. as a vegetrian of over 30 years I'm happy, healthy and don't have to kill other living creatures who lives inhumane lives just so i can get a TRILL of someone liking my handbag or shoes or gobbling down a steak to appease my tastebuds for a few minutes.
This is a truly sickening article. And in no way correctly displays what 4-H is about. Shame on you for writing it and shame on you, CNN, for putting it on your site. This kind of untruthful TRASH, is the reason that so many people have a problem with farmers. They don't care enough to look for the truth but read some outrageous article and run with it. Yesterday PETA was protesting the National Holstein convention. Tomorrow they will be yelling at our children on the way to camp or while showing their pride and joys(livestock) at the local show. SHAME
I do not care what others say. I have decided I can not eat an animal without its consent. And since no animal is going to consent to sacrifice for my stomach, I have become a veggie.
There are ones tell me God give them to us as food. Well, obviously God forgot to inform them, because none of them seem to be happy to be killed.
You do know Jesus ate fish....right?
So?
I am no Jesus.
Do you thinkthe Robin that eats the worm getsconsent from the worm before it eats it? Or the fox that eats the goose? Etc . . . It is the way the natural world works. If you don't want to eat meat, that is fine. You did not say that you believe that those who eat meat are ging against God, but is that what you are getting at?
I do not know about Robin but I think I likely have more compassion than a fox has. That's how nature works is just such a lame excuse, there are animals kill their own kind for food, so it's ok to be a cannibal? When did we give up the idea that we can be better than animals?
I did not say if you eat animal you are non-christian. I just do not believe the animals were given to us as food, that is all.
Not true. He obviously did, my pet pig told me he was the best tasting BLT ever... HA!
I would like to know how many of you who are soooo vigorously defending the non-slaughter point of view are also pro-life when it comes to abortion??? How about preborn babies – let's talk about what is really important instead of this foolishness regarding meat.
I would never defend abusing animals but I will eat what was placed on this earth to be eaten and defend the right of helpless babies to be given their life.
First, it is important to note that 4-H was not started by the USDA, as you incorrectly stated above. It was started as a boys and girls club in Springfield, Ohio by A.B. Graham, a man who wanted to teach the local kids how to raise food and improve food system. This became the premise for the Extension Service (also not part of USDA). The Extension service is part of our Land Grant University system, which is supported in part by federal programs.
Second, I would content that 4-H actually serves to cultivate sensitivity to the lives of all animals regardless of their ultimate purpose. Children learn about different environments for raising animals and experience the human-animal bond. More than 95% of the population consumes meat, milk and eggs, and we all generations need to understand how to effectively nourish human life in a responsible and sustainable way. This means farming in a variety of ways. In addition to teaching how to sustain human life through the nourishment that animals provide, 4-H also teaches about companionship (dogs and cats), recreation (horses), veterinary science (animal health), animal nutrition (used for improving pet and livestock foods), and food and nutrition. If anything, 4-H allows children to experience how valuable and important each and every living creature's life is to the Circle of Life, and that being the top of the food chain, we possess a greater responsibility for ensuring that care exists for all of God's creatures.
By the way, those of you vegans who will attack this statement, please respect my philosophy. It differs from yours, but we are both entitled to our perspectives. Respectfully yours, Melanie
i am sure that those who are oppossed to the 4H and see the org as molding killers, are also the vegan types that push their ideas on others (not all vegans). I have no problem with vegans, unless they push their view on me or others. If anything, 4H teached kids respect for the animlas that they eat. How many kids and adults have no thought, whatsoever, about where the steak they ate came from, and often times throw away food that they can not finish on their plate. I would bet that the kids who grow up attending 4H events have much more respect and consideration for the animlas that eventually become our food and wasting uneaten food.
If I had posted an article about how the Hip Hop culture desensitizes kids to violence I would be labeled a racist. But apparently it’s okay for social elitist to label us country folk however they like.
You are so right.
People are getting too soft in this country. How will you ever survive?
They won't. If the supermarkets are ever empty, most of them will starve. The survivors will form rampaging mobs that will spread out through the suburbs and urban areas, eating anything edible that they can find. Eventually a few will arrive at the farms that they deride so much, and will be at the mercy of the "dirty farmers."
They need to pray to the God they don't believe in that the magic food maker in the back of the grocery store never gives out.
It's people like you!
It's people like you.........
I am also a 4-H alum. If you think having a working understanding of how the food industry actually functions is some how a negative, and doesn't instill a healthy respect for the animal you might be eating at dinner tonight and the care and work that goes into raising it, you're delusional.
I was born in 1945. I was raised on a farm. You people must be from another planet. We grew crops of every kind. We raised chickens for eggs and for food. We raised pigs for food. We raised cows for food. We hunted Quail, Rabbits,Squirrels, Turkey and deer for food. All this wasen't available like it is now in it's neatly plastic packaged place on the Wal-Mart shelf. Hello, We KILLED them! I was not raised in the neat subourban world you live in or the nice big city with it's gangs that KILL PEOPLE and have children that have to find their way back into a gang to survive. I have been a machinest, tool and dye maker. a bussiness owner. I was raised with christian values and have never been arrested for anything. Well, I quess you can see what all that killing did to me. You let your dreamscape dissapear and we will see what you have for lunch! I loved my childhood and the killing was not a big thing that I think of. What you have a squirrel making a hole in your roof. Honey! where's my shotgun, we are having squirrel tonight.
I grew up on a cattle ranch and was a 4-H er for seven years. I raised steers and sheep that were sold at auction and slaughtered. Growing up in that culture, I didn't know any other way and the sale of those animals subsidized my college education. However, I was traumatized by the loss of those beautiful animals, my pets. I would find them in cattle trucks before they were hauled off and bid them a tearful good-bye and would grieve for weeks after. I still can't pass a cattle truck on the road without crying, fifty years later. I was traumatized but sensitized and am committed to animal rights. I haven't touched beef or lamb in 30 years and currently only eat fish. Parents, do not assume that your children are emotionally/mentally managing the difficult terrain of raising animals that become treasured pets for slaughter.
I've forced myself to read a lot of ill-informed, stupid (defined as willful ignorance) articles and posts on cnn.com but I have rarely been offered such a feast of outlandish and false positions. There are a lot of good reasons to be a vegetarian but moral superiority isn't one of them. You're more evolved becasue you have a brain and therefore choose to eat plants? Oh, please. There are a lot good reasons to eat meat but moral superiority isn't one of them. The state of U.S. industrial agriculture is nothing to celebrate. The use of chemicals and factory methods is not to be excused. That doesn't negate eating meat that you've hiunted or raised yourself.
And what is truly sad is that too many on both sides of this issue are so far removed from actual life processes, it's enough to make you weep – and reach for an organic beer.
I thought this was a fair and appropriate followup to the author's previous article about why you should buy from 4-H. The author didn't randomly ask the question of "desensitization." Instead, it was debated in the comments posted to the previous article, so this followup topic makes sense. And the number of comments posted here shows there are a lot of passionate views.
How does one get so far removed from reality to see 4H as a pernicious evil perpetrated upon our youth? Eat much? Wear much? Sythetics the way to go for clothes? What about all that horrible oil? Once we get rid of that, then what will we wear? Cotton – then we will hear about how the cotton plants can feel pain and need to be protected. It is amazing to me that the idea that 4H is bad is held be anybody who eats food. 4H is important and helps children to have a balanced view of the world in which we live. Long live 4H!!!
I work with adults who know how to find all the entertainment in town, but don't realize the fruit and vegetables they find in the grocery store grow in dirt and should be washed...that to be safe, meat should be cooked to a certain temperature and handled in a sanitary way, that you can bread a pork chop with flour or crumbs if you don't have a box of Shake 'n Bake. A 4-H-er knows all that and more. 4-H makes good citizens who are self reliant and knowledgable.
I was raised in 4-H as well as my 6 other siblings. We did dairy judging and also raised hefiers and steers. All 3 of my children have also raised calves. The heifers we put back into the herd and they are usually the best at rearing quality calves. The steers are slaughtered by our family and this usually feeds us for a year. Undoubtly some of you have never had a great steak that has been hand raised!!!! Best you will ever have. Most of your finer restaurants will also offer to buy 4-H calves because they know the meat is great!!!! So, get all your facts before you look like a complete FOOL because you don't know what your talking about and also, slaughter houses are the cleanest places!!! Ever heard of USDA!!!! They are governed!!!!!!!!!
I was a 10 year member of 4-H. During that time, I exhibited market projects at our county fair, including lambs, rabbits, and pigs. I grew attached to my projects, but I always understood that at the end, they would be sold and slaughtered. I was not desensitized to the killing; at the end of the project, I shed a few tears, but then I moved on. 4-H is a remarkable program that taught me leadership, responsibility, and the importance of a solid work ethic. I credit those experiences with my desire to live on a family farm today. People need to realize that animals are raised to fulfill many needs in our society, including the need for safe, affordable protein. 4-H is one way that youth can gain that insight.
@Carnivore Eating Vegans is a special treat. It gives you long ears and great big feet. (But is sure is awful stuff to eat)...I made that last part up myself!
When I grew up, we used to use toy guns and shoot the TV screen when watching Bambi because we couldn't go hunting...
Ya know vegans can go on and on about mis-treatment of animals blah blah blah...but there are WAY more mis-treatments of the land and sacred earth in regular crop farming. The problem is death has been hidden away from society, it is not something people are used to. They're afraid of an every day, common occurrence. Don't wanna eat meat? I say good....more more me...
To those of you who are arguing about the raising of an animal and then killing it for food, because that is what the animal is for...well you are probably the hypocrites that would want a tiger, crocodile or shark killed for attacking a human...If humans eating animals is ok to you, then don't get mad when a truly carnivorous animal eats a human.
Yeah, the vegetarians get so hysterical over these articles they forget that humans are animals too, and part of the circle of life.
@BeReal Your Idea = Fail
Sharks/Tigers/Crocs are not raising us for food....if you had some meat maybe your brain could evolve enough to form a proper argument.
Apparently your cognitive skills are "failed"...because you completely missed my point. I would stay out of the water if I was you, you may become what your name suggests...
As a former 4-H member and FFA member, I truly believe that there is no better "gang" to belong to than these two organizations. From the age of 8 to 18 I was actively involved in as many aspects of 4-H as possible. I showed sheep and cattle, competed in the Food and Nutrition competion, participated in 4-H Round-up, and was a member of the Fashion Show/Sewing part of the club. The thing about 4-H I'll never forget is level of leadership it instills in our youth. From the early age of 8, public speaking was implemented at our meeting. In front of a room full of fellow members and parents, we were required to stand up and state the progress of our project. With public speaking being the number one fear in our county, beating out death (yes, as Jerry Seinfeld states the majority of us would rather be in the coffin than giving the eulogy), starting kids early eases some of that speaking anxiety; I should know, I'm now Speech teacher with Master's degree. This degree would not have been possible without the leadership, speaking, and interview skills I learning through this wonderful organization. My senior year of high school, after years and years of 4-H public speaking events and interviews for 4-H, I sat before a panel of judges for a scholarship. I ended up receiving this scholarship which paid for my entire undergrad education. I couldn't have been more blessed. I realize that none of this has anything to do with killing, but that's my point. 4-H is so much more. Did I know that my sheep were headed to slaughter? Yes. While in high school did I take a trip to the local slaughterhouse to view carcasses and cuts of meat? Yes. However, this did not desensitive me. It educated me. It educated me not only about the food chain and agriculture, but on science and biology. I learned the food and exercise I was providing the animal with was going to produce certain results; stronger muscles, leaner meat, less fatty cover over the meat, level of marbling. These are all things that apply our human bodies as well; exercise, food intake, amount of fat...health choices me make on a daily basis. Am I against cruel treatment of animals? Absolutely. But maturely watching the process helped me realize that there is nothing cruel about the was 4-H and FFA member produced animals are treated. Is a person who has thier beloved family dog or cat put to asleep accused of being desensitived to killing because they killing an animal this isn't even going to eaten? Heck no! So why are we? Our ancestors (and I say "our" because all of ancestors did it) hunted and fished for food. This supplied them with nutrition. I am totally against "trophy killing" such as killing wild game that are not going to be eaten, but if an animal (sheep, steer, chicken, pig, goat, rabbit, whitetail buck, gator, fish, etc...) is going to eaten and provide nourishment, thus revolving the circle of life, that's nature, science, common sense. For those nay-sayers out there, did you speak out against the life cycle lesson in biology class? Probably not because you headed to lunch after class to enjoy your hamburger, a hamburger that had meat in which its sources were unknown. Anyone watch Jamie Oliver? I'm an avid follower of his show and his philosophy. Anyone watch the last episode? High schools did not know that milk or butter came from a cow. They didn't know that popcorn came from corn. That's a sad lesson America! Our kids don't know where their food comes from! They just eat...and eat...and eat, having no knowledge of the effect is plays on their bodies...thus obesity. Let's open our eyes folks, 4-H teaches so much more. According to studies 4-Hers are nearly two times more likely to get better grades in school (we also implement the "no pass, no play/show/compete" policy), two times more likely to go to college, and 25% more likely to positively impact their communities. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like nazi-esque, heartless, blood thirsty killers to me.
Whoa, slow down there, Cowboy. As wrong and ill-informed as many posters are here, let's not put 4-H on a pedestal just on your say-so.
I get just as tired as the bleating that farmers are the salt of the earth and can do wrong as I do from listening to the "twigs-and-dirt" crowd of vegetarians.
4-H can legitimately stand some criticism. In particular, 4-H, at least in Wiscoinsin where I had my longest exposure, makes a contest out of everything. And then insists on everyone winning. As a former 4-H county fair judge, I gave up because I was tired of the pressure from the leaders and parents to give out multiple blue ribbons in every class. That ignores the life lesson that there are winners and losers and sometimes a kid puts out bad work just to earn the county fair premium.
My favorite was the 4-H leader who ripped me a new one for not giving her club any kind of ribbon because the kids had worked so hard. And it was HER reflection in at least one of the photos taken to "document" that hard work.
sorry. I meant can do NO wrong.
I agree with the life lesson of winners and losers, and from my 10 year 4-H experience in Texas, all of which I worked my butt off with my projects, I came home with ribbons of all colors. Not all of us received blue ribbons, that would have been unheard of in my neck of the woods. If my sheep was the best, I got Grand Champion. If it didn't hold a candle to the $1,000 lambs in the ring with it at the San Antonio Stock Show, I got the gate. Yes it is competitve, but if its not showmanship, people have to remember that the judge is judging the animal, not the exhibitor. Its also important for them to remember that the judge is but one person, and everyone has the right to their own opinion (judges included!). That's something they care going to encounter thier entire lives. Thank you for clarifying that 4-H can vary from state to state.
I guess my first reaction to this article is total shock. Having been in 4-H I find it hard to believe that anyone would lump the humane way we raised animals into the same category as feed lots and CAFOs that turn agriculture into an assembly line. There are some truly stupid people on here spouting a bunch of non-sense! I don't care how you get your food it has to come from somewhere. Why would you attack the dwindling number of people doing it in the most moral way possible?
Okay vegetarians, biology 101. Humans = omnivores. Omnivores = animals. Humans = animals. Animals can eat meat if they want to.
@Omnivore, lol! this might help you too. Read Maneka Gandhi's Heads and Tails. Highly Recommended. If you have a receptive mind, you would understand the difference between various categories of animals, including humans. Ciao!
I don't known about 4H but some of you get pretty mad at people who just happen not to believe in eating meat. I happen to like animals but I am not a vegan.
What I find more offensive, disgusting and disturbing is that "tradition" for lack of a better word of putting a rifle in the hands of a small child whose brain and body are still developing and teach them how to kill animals by going hunting. There are plenty of supermarkets where you can buy food. This is the 21st century. You don't have to kill your food!
Really! Thats part of the problem. Just go to the grocery store they have food. I strated hunting when I was 9. I was driving, rasing and processing and cooking my own food. There are people in there 20's and thirtys that could not do what I was before I was a teenager. I know own my own compney teaching people moving from the citys to the country how to manage farms.
The best use of a rifle is not to hunt for food. The best use of a rifle is to defend our culture and traditions from those who would take them away from us. And, by extension, to defend our farms from the starving hoards that would come pillaging if the supermarkets were ever empty.
Ignorance is bliss, huh?
You have no idea what hunting entails if that's your opinion. I've been hunting since age 12, and I plan to teach my kids as well. They're 6, 4, and 2, and they've already seen me shoot rabbits out of the garden. They also know how to spot a buck rub in the woods and what type of trees surround our house. You have more respect for your food and your environment when you're a hunter. ... Course, it must be nice to keep your hands clean and let someone else kill your food for you. Supermarket my foot.
I only got about a third of the way through all the comments before I barged in on this conversation. I am a hunter and fisherman. I have always hunted animals for meat that I can't get at the store...aka, venison, antelope, etc...once I killed that animal, the first thing I did was shed tears...they are indeed beautiful animals. Then I thanked God that he provided for me. But after I cleaned my animal, cooked my animal and ate my animal, I no longer cried, but instead felt like...I was full. And complete. I'm wondering where these fools are going to get their food once the world implodes...I'll still be here, hunting and fishing for mine...heck, I might even grow a few vegetables...
Vegetarianism is a luxury in our society. We are so stinking spoiled because we think times are rough when they really aren't, and we can STILL afford to have non meat eaters in our society. The fact that food is still so abundant that many have the LUXURY of making this food choice is a testament to how NON cruel we are. A savage nation and people simply could not/would not live this good. They just wouldn't have the cognitive ability.
Hollywood movies slaughtering, torturing, raping = good entertainment.
Killing animals for food = desensitizing our youth to killing, and therefore bad.
All this BS from the "vegetable killers" who think nothing of killing helpless plants to keep their miserable meaty bodies alive.... Amazing how egotistical they are as they stereotype which form of life is "OK" and "not OK" to eat based upon their own personal preferences. We're animals- we have to kill something to stay alive. There is no other way, except by committing suicide- and I wish some of you snooty plant killers would do just that!
Exactly, animals and plants are all living things. If the difference is that one can think for itself, then shouldn't the vegetarians be trying to eat brain dead humans? I mean they can't think anymore right?
I've read Rifkin et al about the evils of meat production including cruelty, environmental impact, labor concerns and more. There are some truly compelling reasons to move away from eating meat as a species. I respect anyone who chooses not to eat meat for ethical or health reasons.
That being said I personally DGAF. Every time I see whiny veggies spouting the same tired crap I resolve to eat a big juicy steak before the day is over. Not everybody feels the need to pick up the torch of food ethics, nor should they. DIAF, evangelical vegans.
Why is this article targeting the 4H. If you do not believe in humans eating animals, that is your choice. The 4H does a lot of things, but desensitizing children is not one of them. If you have been given the opportunity to participate in any 4H or FFA events you will see compassionate and very respectful children. These programs help teach students how to work together and also give great leadership and speaking skills.
Most children learn the reality that the food they eat comes from farm animals regardless of their involvement in 4H. Lets face it, if cattle and other animals weren’t being raised and bred for production purposes we wouldn’t have many of them in this country! That is why they are being feed, housed and tended too!
I have no problem with someone pushing their agenda of not consuming animal products. I have the right to love eating them, just as much as they have the right to think its disgusting........but don’t attack a program that is bettering the leaders of tomorrow!
I'm sorry but where in this article is the 4-H organization being targeted? Where it mentions the motto of the 4-H organization? Where it talks about proud future farmers?
If you had actually read this article for comprehension rather than just skimming the surface you would have realized that this article is presenting two side of an argument. The entire reason this article exists is because of an article posted yesterday PRAISING the 4-H organization which resulted in people insinuating that the 4-H club "desensitizes" kids. The only negative comments against the 4-H organization are from people on the internet who commented. This article was created in order to give more feedback on BOTH sides of the fences.
Next time I suggest reading the entire article, and then rereading it, before making outlandish comments.
My 17 year old has raised and sold 4 steers as part of his 4H Beef Clubs. He has learnt not only good feeding and housing habits for raising top quality beef but also a strong sense of being responsible for another living being , the value of hard work and importance of a healthy lifestyle for both himself and the animals he raises. What more could you ask of a program that has a $50 per year membership fee. No soccer or hockey coach could instill these values.
This article shows how little people get educated on where there food comes form. You may live in a little appartment and only understand that the grocery store has food. Don't go arount wrighting articles on subjucts you have no knowledge of.
It's real easy in our current civilization for someone to jump on their sef righteous soap box preaching about the evil of meat The reason we even HAVE that luxury in our current society is because how we live now was built on the hard labor of the backs of meat eaters. Back in the middle ages in Europe, it was consiered a crime for peasants to eat meat. They were killed if caught. The reason: Meat eaters were smarter. Royalty back then wanted to keep the peasants dumbed down. I've known a number of vegetarians, vegans, as a matter of fact, and none of them seemed that bright. I care deeply for my vegan friends, but I think there is an element in animal products that positively affects intelligence.
I won't debate the ethics of some of the slaughterhouse conditions, since I realize they aren't great at all, but I think meat eating is essential for propert cognitive development and function. Keep in mind also that one cow will feed a family of four for about six months, but one chicken will only feed that family for one meal, so more killing is done when eating chicken or fish.
I teach my kids not to get emotionally attached to people. That way if you want to get an abortion later in life it will not be a problem.
really? I am disappointed in this article. The 4H is an amazing youth organization and you all should be ashamed!
Dissapointed but not surprised. This is just an effort to reboot the moribund animal rights movement by people who haven't the foggiest idea how food is produced.
Perhaps we should just satisfy all the vegetarians and exterminate all the carnivorous species on the planet. After all, they eat meat for food too, right? I mean imagine the sheer terror a poor deer goes through when a mountain lion leaps at him! OMG! Cute little deer! Big evil mountain lion! OMG!
Keep it up city dwellers, trucks and tractors wont run too long on rainbow power. I can hear you stomachs growling all the way out here!
I was a 4-H member from the age of 9-18 year old, and I am proud to call myself an alumni. I participated in both the Steer (these animals went from meat consumption) and the Heifer Project (these were breedering projects that I kept in my herd). 4-H didn't desensitize me to killing, it did all of the positive things that you mentioned above taught me animal husbandry skills, responsibility, life skills. It's purpose was not to desensitize me to killing. I spent more time with my projects that my friends, I had compassionate towards them, they were important to me, but I also knew that the steers I was raising were for food purposes. And because I knew someone would be eating that meat I wanted to ensure it was raised in the best and healthiest way possible.
Every day I utilize the skills I learned in 4-H both on my farm and in my office job. 4-H makes better citizens for your communities and that is something to support. http://www.crystalcattle.com
Everyone is different... has different feelings and objections.
If we were all the same the world would not be as interesting as it is.
Just because you have an opinion about something you have no personal knowledge of yourself, does not mean you need to put others down for the way they feel or their choices, unless if effects you directly....
Get a life people... AND WORRY ABOUT YOURSELF ONLY...
Dodgr can you name me these guys cause I think you are getting misinformed or intentionally putting wrong info on here. I'm not a big mma fan but the major guys that are well known in the sport are not vegans or vegetarians. I'm not saying that vegetarians can't be strong and manly as my diet consumes minimal meat but i just don't like misinformed comments.
I hardly know how to respond to this debate. As a lifelong supporter of 4-H, I learned the practical reality that steak doesn't grow on trees. More importantly, its a choice – if you can't see the value in having your own children participate in a program that gives many meaningful experiences and lifelong freindships – then don't, but don't tear it down just because you disagree.
There are many programs not perfectly suited to many particularly individuals – but make the choice for yourself and find the respect to recognize that others may choose 4-H as a great avenue to grow the minds of our future.
LOL at the "holier than thou" attitude of the vegetarians, accusing everyone else of being inhuman. You want to be a real human? There's a reason humanity evolved with canines and not just molars. Read: We're omnivores.
are you kidding me? i raised steers for 4-H for ten years and it never got any easier when auction time came around. I cried with the auctioneer shouting on and on and walking what we called "the green mile" nearly killed me every time. Yes i knew it had to be done and those 10 years of hard ass work paid for my college education with one check but i still have pictures of my Oscar, and Fritz, my favorites. They taught me valuable lessons and how to care for living things and I still tear up when I think of the green mile, but it had to be done.
I am sad to see 4-H getting a bad name. It did sooooo much for me when growing up. First, 4-H is NOT all about animals. It’s one the biggest misconceptions. Think of anything, and there is a project. 4-H helped me learn about how to take care of my money, how to write checks and keep a bank account. It taught me how to do laundry which helped me prepare myself to live on my own. It taught me how to cook. There are soooo many different cooking projects for example one project just about microwave meals which helped me in college. I also did sewing projects and other clothing projects which have help me go shopping and find good deals. 4-H also goes beyond the projects, you make friends and you have great memories at camps and other activities. 4-H also taught me how to run meetings properly and how to be a great leader. I was lucky enough to be president of my club and I learned about the importance of leadership. Most of all 4-H helped me find my passion for teaching. As I got older, I worked with the younger members helping them with their projects and this helped me make the decision that I want to be a teacher. 4-H is a very very good program that helps child and young adults for the future.
It's actually rather funny. The original article praises 4H, but someone at CNN gave life to an entire sub culture here by headlining a coulpe of the comments made against that viewpoint. One of the livliest topics I've seen in a while – good job.
Yeah, sure, 4-H is desensitizing kids to killing. It has nothing to do with all the TV shows, video games, or even the nightly news shows that routinely show violence and death. I grew up on a farm, and was in 4-H for many years. You learn that these animals may serve as pets for a short time, but in the bigger scheme of things they are being raised as food for humans. At least I know where the food I eat comes from, and how much work goes into producing that meal. It's an appreciation that fewer and fewer people have these days. Also, if something were to happen to the food supply tomorrow, at least I have an education about how to sustain my family and myself. Would it be easy, NO, but at least I wouldn't have to sit around wondering where the government was, and waiting for them to save me like so many people do whenever there is some sort of a disaster. Honestly, I think it's a basic education everyone should have.
Nope...stupid generally is eliminated once the meat reaches approximately 165 degrees F. As long as you prepare it on a clean surface and cook it to the correct temperature, you should be just fine.
Does 4-H desensitize kids to killing? Nohh... HOLLYWOOD does.
Have you seen the latest trailer to Conan The Barbarian remake?
Does 4-H desensitize kids to killing? No, the VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY does. Have you seen the latest hyper killing hyper violence in the latest offerings at E3?
Does 4-H desensitize kids to killing? No. Hip Hop gang banger, thug, bling culture does. They literally get obsessed with guns.
Kid you not.
Yaaaawn. Gosh. I don't hate anything but hate itself. The whole "holier than thou" attitude of the vegetarians and folks that tout organic production is laughable. The arguments are based on ignorance and fear. The "scientific" studies you reference were written by "scientists" with an agenda and who found a way to get funded writing grants for work that supports the vegetarian lifestyle or that supports organic farming. I don't hate you for your ignorance. However, fear and ignorance dictate a lot of policy, and that policy affects people and their well-being. When fear and ignorance negatively affect people, this is wrong. I know a lot of vegetarians that don't bust on omnivores. They eat veggies because they simply don't like the texture of meat. If you eat vegetarian for any reason, I think that is fine, even if it is because you don't want to eat animals. And to think you have some higher awareness of your humanity, and you choose not to eat meat because of that, that is fine too. Just don't beat up on people that don't agree with you. There is too much history and data to disprove your arguments. Just do what you feel is right for you, but don't try and make it policy. Same goes for organic. I think it is fine to grow, sell, purchase and eat organic. If folks can make money on it, more power to them. Just don't make pesticide use or GMOs out to be bad. You really don't have a leg to stand on.
I participated in 4-H when I was younger, and I can say that I appreciate that my school offered this. I can't say that it was life-altering, but I definitely appreciate what I eat much more than others. I remember raising ducklings when we were first introduced to this program. I cried when they were taken away from us. Unfortunately my time with 4-H was short as I moved to a school without this program. It's interesting though to see how my view of eating duck differs from that of eating any other animal. I never at duck as a child not because of the 4-H program, but just because it was never a choice for me. However as I grew older and had the opportunity to eat duck, I could see the effects of 4-H. Every single time I eat duck, I'm reminded of my ducklings that I raised. I appreciate duck so much more than I do any other food. And I can say that this is because of 4-H.
Article is hypocritical unless the ones against it want everyone to be vegetarians. If anyone has a problem with raising animals then eating it, just become a vegetarian. Yes those MEAT we're eating come from animals. Don't sugarcoat that fact.
WOW, I can't believe I just read this crappy article. I suppose next some whiny A@@ will complain that the Boy Scouts and Girl Scout teaches manners and respect and how to be a productive individual. The fact is 4-H teaches about life, the cycle of life. These kids see how that cycle goes and have a better respect for life. I suppose these same idiots will complain that farmers are a bunch of insensitive killers as well, while they are eating their steaks and corn. Grow up people!
Shh! Don't get them started on the Boy Scouts! The same trendy urbanoids who accuse 4-H kids of immorality for raising animals will get their panties in a wad because the Boy Scouts won't hire homosexual scoutmasters for moral reasons. Remember: your morals are bad because you are a conservative hick from the sticks and mine are good because I live in a $3000-a-month city loft and enjoy chai tea enemas.
My daughter was in 4-H and she is vegan.
Oh yeah... 4H bad. Lets all go eat tofu and hug a tree. The world is getting crazier every day.
Frankly, the "eat tofu and hug a tree" rhetoric is just as ignorant as the bleatings of the "meat is murder" crowd.
Well, I am pretty liberal and I was a "4-Her" begining at 9 years old, until I graduated from High School.In addition to raising lambs and rabbits, I participated in the sewing, cooking, baking, and photography programs offered by 4-H. The LIFELONG skills I learned through 4-H are inmeasurable, but I will list the benefits I reaped: organization, public speaking, growing a successful garden,maintaining a beautiful yard, making all meals for my family (and I work full-time–I am not a stay home mom), I sew missing buttons back on rather than taking them to the dry cleaners for $5 per button and I can hem my own pants. I know how to select the BEST cuts of meat and how to buy an animal to be slaughtered. 4-H is an incredible program that has something to offer everyone.
you can't be a liberal...that was just too intelligent of an answer...you've got to be a conservative...I mean, you sew your own buttons back on for goodness sake!!! :-)
Give me a break. ANYONE who eats or uses any animal product should have to take a class where they see the actual processes. It doesn't desensitize them to killing ... it educates them on exactly what their consumption entails. Yes, if you completely 100% forswear the use of animal products then you get to not like these kinds of education. But for the vast majority of the population they are just grossed out because their children are involved in a part of the process that they have otherwise been allowed to abstract themselves from. How many children (AND adults) eat rainforest beef at McDonalds ... but are still disturbed at the idea of killing an animal? I'd rather know people who are willing to kill what they eat ... and therefor treat the animal better than wholesale farming tends to ... than those folks.
Don't feed the trolls...well don't feed them meat anyways.
As an organization that does so much for youth, I'm shocked to find there are people that have a problem with 4-H animal programs.
Raising an animal through 4-H requires time, dedication, care, and the development of knowledge to fulfill the needs of another living being. Let's be real-4-Hers who participate throughout life (until high school graduation), receive a lifetime of lessons through 4-H animal programs and have to keep a living, breathing creature alive and healthy.
Focusing on the end result of the animal programs is focusing on <1% of what 4-H teaches about animals and responsibility.
Many 4-H raisers go to great lengths for their animals. Assuming that 4-Hers are desensitized to animal slaughter is naive. Many have seen their animals born, helped them take their first breaths, fed them, bathed them, exercised them, doctored them, hugged them, laughed, been saddened to see them go, and ultimately receive a greater appreciation of the gift these animals are and why it is so crucial that animals be raised and cared for properly. I will always remember the animals I raised through 4-H.
I pledge my Head to clearer thinking, my Heart to greater loyalty, my Hands to larger service, and my Health to better living. For my club, my community, my country, and my world.
oooo-rah
ps i too grew up on a farm. The fact that vegetable farming is also fraught with the over use of chemicals by big ag business in NO way negates the arguments I made against factory farming of animals for moral and/or health reasons
When we have more people living in apartments than there are farms what do you think is going to happen. We have people who don't know how to use a lawn mower much less farm. Its a lack of education about where food comes from besides the grocery store. This is exacly why 4-H is more inportant now then it ever has been
I personaly was involved in 4-H most of my life, from a mini member to my teens. These are some of the best years of my life. I raised Pigs, Sheep, rabbits, etc. I was also in clubs within 4-H like photography, bee keeping, tole painting, aquarium, arts and crafts, and my favorite, an Off Highway Vehicle group which I participated with my Jr. Dragster. I do not believe the raising of animals to go to auction to be slaughtered desensitized me what so ever. I love animals, and love the experiences I had. Even though it was hard to part with the animals I raised for so many months, I knew it was the circle of life, and did not effect my thoughts of animals one bit.
I believe 4-H is the best thing you could ever do for your kids. Get them out of the house, socialize.. I even went to a 4-H camp yearly in the Napa Ca mountains.
The 4-H people's comments may have some merit in a farming community, but how do they explain that in my area which is quite urban without a farm for miles they have kids breeding rabbits.
We need more rabbit breeders in our cities like I need a hole in the head. With over 1000 rabbits in the shelters in just my area alone, why would they teach kids to breed and raise rabbits who are not needed. No one around here raises their own food and so there is no need to pump out hundreds if not thousands of rabbits to what purpose?
Those rabbits most often end up at the shelters or sold for almost nothing to just "get rid" of them when their 4-H experiment is over.
I see the booths set up at the local street fairs using live rabbits to lure the kids into their organization. What 8 year old girl does not want to hug and play with a cute fluffy rabbit, but rabbits are not kid's pets contrary to popular belief and it is wrong to teach these kids that it is OK not to spay and neuter your pets so that you can breed them.
If 4-H taught more responsibility to the kids instead of teaching them to breed animals and not worry about where they will eventually end up or go when they are done.
I hear stories from the kids about breeding dozens of baby rabbits to get one good "show" rabbit. What happens to the other non-show quality rabbits. Good breeding practices should include dealing with every animal you create instead of dumping them into the pet world to deal with such as our local 4-H does. With thousands of rabbits who will end up being euthanized because they cannot find enough homes for them all, why are we teaching these kind of values to our children?
Maybe 4-H has it purpose in a farm community but it has no place teaching kids to breed animals in the city that they have no plan on eating or keeping long term. Those animals end up suffering in shelters or being euthanized. Personally, I think it should be a crime to breed animals just to kill them for no good reason.
Perhaps you should take your thoughts concerning this issue to your local extension office and offer to give a talk on the care and the indiscriminate breeding of pet rabbits. They are always looking for role models and educated speakers for their youth. If you bring in literature, an interesting approach, and good hands on exhibits (such as shelter rabbits that have been neutered and trained), you'll be well received. This group is about good resource management and animal husbandry and they would not consciously contribute to a problem.
I am sure that the booths you're referring to aren't being run by the extension office itself; they don't have the resources to raise rabbits. If it is indeed being run by anyone from 4-H it is probably well-meaning project leaders who are simply trying to find homes for the inevitable overflow of rabbits. They probably view it as kinder than euthanizing them.
Being part of the solution is about more than dealing the results (sheltering the over-flow of rabbits). It's about community outreach and education. If you really believe your local 4-H chapter is part of the problem, then this is where you need to start. Do not take word of mouth as proof. Get involved with the kids themselves.
Mother of Four, I don't think they want to be "part of the solution." They want to control you and your kids.
I find this headline absolutely crazy... anyone that has ever been in 4-H will tell you the exact opposite. 4-H teaches empathy for animals, how to care and love them and raise them right. The kids are learning how to be great farmers, and unfortunately that also means taking animals to auction. I cried for EVERY single one of my animals I showed in 4-H, and thats 10+ goats and 20+ hogs. I loved and named everyone single one of them, but I also understood that while we love them like pets- they are still livestock. They have a purpose and 4-Hers are simply giving them the best lives they can before that purpose if fullfilled. Not to mention, they raise the healthiest animals around, no better meat, so again they are caring for the human race by producing the healthiest meat products. I am a 4-H advisor and know that one of the best thing I can do for my daughters is raise them on a farm and be in 4-H. I can assure you that a child that has raised animals in 4-H knows so much more about life than one who hasn't. Those who are desensitized are the ones who eat meat but have never raised a farm animal.
I ask everyone to not comment negatively on an organization you clearly know NOTHING about.
I couldn't agree more. I did FFA in high school, hogs, lambs, and a dairy goat. I understood these animals' sole purposes, but felt great about giving them a dignified life. My dairy goat Rosie is now a milker for a little, local farm.
I find it odd that this article doesn't seem to have a posted author, but who ever they are, they aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Through out all of human history up until about 150 years ago humans had to survive by killing animals to eat. We started as hunters and then worked our way up to farmers with herds or flocks of animals that were raised and then slaughtered for food and other resources. Children get attached to things easily, but a child that has grown up on a farm knowns that the animals aren't pets; they are a profit making resource and/or source of sustenance. 4-H just exposes kids to that reality who may not normally do so.
There is no storyline because it is a question.
Go back to the top and click on the " Five Reasons to Buy from Your Local 4-H" link.
Why do you pity the animal over the plant? At least the animal has a chance to run away. The plant's just stuck.
You Are a JOKE! Why do you assume I know nothing about farming? I am VERY aware of the chemicals and pesticides that are part of the process. Its all part of the same problem, mass production for profit by big business without regard for health or wellbeing of humans or non-human animals!
Also, no comment on the morality of the issue?
You seem to only look at one side of the ag industrie. So many poeple today are uneducated about ag and do not know simple facts. Yes there is corpution in the way some companys handle there anamles and the over use of some pesticided. Done properly though it produces a qualtiy product that feeds larger number of people from the same area.
The products used on crops are to help & protect them from pests/diseases – just like the shots you probably received as a child. Farmers are regulated by the EPA & we have the safest food in the world, as well as most inexpensive.
How did you people get sooooo far of the subject of the article. I have volunteered with 4-H for 8 years and have watched hundereds of kids grow into responsible upstanding citizens. Yes, 4-H teaches kids how to raise farm animals and how to show them. It teaches the kids responsiblity, how to take care of another living creature and at shows it teaches them how to be conifdent and in control. At shows they are really saleing themselves like they would in a job interview. Weather the animal goes to market is up to the family, but even for those that dont chose that course the children get an understanding of the overall picture. It doesnt matter if YOU eat meat or not, you should be correctly educated in where every food product comes from. That way you are not ignorant to life. This is what 4-H teaches, it teaches kids to understand about agriculture, animals, buisness, finance, crafts, community service, sports, public speaking and the world we live in. No, I don't believe that 4-H desensitizes kids to killing, it teaches them how to handle the bad with the good in life.
Duh, everyone knows that you don’t have to kill your pets for food. You just have to go to the supermarket to get some meat. And everyone knows that meat comes from a delivery truck. Oh, and peaches come from a can in a factory downtown.
I'm a former 4-Her. My kids are in 4-H for the first time. Here's what I have to say about this issue:
Makin' Bacon with Tender Loving Care
http://www.farmgirlfollies.com/2011/06/makin-bacon-with-tender-loving-care-8523.html
As a consumer of meat, and meat products I'm seriously offended at the suggestion that animals used for human consumption are thought of as "disposable". I've raised animals. I've hunted. I've prepared and eaten my own meat and dairy. To say those items were a result of disposable animals is frankly disgusting to me. I honor the source of my food. Whether it be from an animal or from plants.
I have more respect for those animals than some of these people who apparently think they're better served just by dying of natural causes and rotting on the ground.
All kinds of living things kill other living things for sustanance. It's neither morally wrong or right, it's just the natural way of things. To not respect the fact that we ALL depend on each other or suggest those who eat meat don't have that respect is wrong. Plain and simple.
All this other junk about desensitizing etc is just propaganda by an organization seeking to convert others to their way of thinking. How about this PETA et al, try respecting OTHER'S beliefs. I respect your right to not eat meat. In fact, I generally don't even serve meat as an option when I have vegetarian friends over. But trying to slander and dehumanize those who do eat meat is sick.
Very nice comment.
Paul McCartney doesn't look like that because he's a vegetarian... he looks that way because he's OLD and BRITISH. :)
There is a hilarious article on C.N.N today about PETA protesting leather products in L.A one of the organizers was interviewing pople on the street their leather shoes one lady said she had no idea leather shoes were made from cow hides. This is a hoot it is great for a laugh. What does Peta want meat processing plants to do with the cow hides just throw them away? Seems like that would be awfully wasteful of good leather.
Having worked for the Cooperative Extension Service in Texas, the sentiments presented in this article are horrible and one-sided. The 4-H program is internationally recognized for it's education to youth of the world and teaches youth about everything. Life, death, compassion, caring, community service, reality and to appreciate and understand where our food comes from. The author is trying to villanize a wonderful program to fit their own view of life. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but this article is just ridiculous.
Don't they kinda taste like chicken ?
I am a 13 year old 4-H member. I raise beef cattle, chickens, and sheep. I love my animals! Some animals are not pets and they are meant to be eaten. That means that they are going to die some day. That doesn't mean that I don't care for them, it means that I understand where food comes from. I raise some of the meat that our family eats and I am proud of that. I raise some of the meat that your family eats too. I am proud of that as well.
I work really hard and give up stuff so that my animals are healthy and well cared for. While other kids are at the pool or sitting in the house playing video games I am feeding, bedding, and cleaning up after animals.
Thanks you for reading.
4-H Kid, you have the best, well spoken and highly educated comment here. You are obviously a very well-rounded, hard working and thoughtful individual and I'm sure you got that way by tending to your livestock every day of the week, hot weather and cold, rain and shine and not sitting inside the house playing video games. You are more mature at 13, than many people here. I too am a former 4-H'r and very proud of the industry and what it teaches children. You are amazing!
Meat is murder. Tasty, tasty murder. Give me a steak anyway. You can keep your vegan diets to your pale undernourished looking self.
@Carnivore
I love Carnivore's meat whistle. I'm a raging sperm-burping gutter slut. I swallow pork swords!
One major omittence from this article, is that the sale of the 4H'ers animals give these children college money. Many of these kids live on farms, and already know that these animals are for someone's dinner plate.
My youngest is a 4H'er and raises her pigs on her half-SILs parents farm (we're more city folk). The sale of her pigs allowed her to contribute to the purchase of her car, something we were not going to do. The rules of the animal husbandry is that they have to take care of their animals, train the pigs to 'walk', learn good sportsmanship in competitions and hope their animal sells.
We've attended these auctions and have found that many of the people who buy the cattle & pigs, own restaurants. Why? Because the animals meat is the best there is and one owner said he would never buy anything other than 4H raised meat.
My daughter's "cousins", who live on a farm eat their animals, have seen them slaughtered (a shot to the head) and gutted. They are also all A students and go to college, on 4H earned money.
It's not just the animals to the 4H, there's project research, public speaking, community service, record keeping, horsemanship (for those that have horses) and a lot more. The girl scouts & boy scouts with their 'badges' (I saw how those were supposedly "earned") do not compare with the 4H. The major part of this is that the KIDS have to do the work, not the parents!
Let me tell you a story – my oldest daughter was also in the 4H, but we weren't in 'farm' country so the few animals that were entered went home with the families. The 'arts & crafts' rules, were that the kids HAD TO bring in their projects to the judging area. If it was too heavy or awkward for the child, then they had to have other kids help. That's the rules, plain and simple. If a parent helped (obviously the parent drove there), then they were disqualified. The leaders say it over & over & over. Guess what, several kids had their projects rejected because the parent just had to help. Of course the parents were ticked off, but you know what? Too bad. Rules are rules and these had to be followed and I totally agree with them.
So Heather King, you don't know squat about the entire 4H system. I would rather hire a 4H person than anyone who was in the boy or girl scouts.
Oh – my then 16 yo girl, was hired over a 17 yo boy because she was in the 4H, and he wasn't. Why, the owner said that every 4H person he had every hired (for summer work) was more responsible & considerate than non-4H kids (boys or girls). That sure says a lot doesn't it?
when i first saw this title i kinda wanted to slap my computer....
I was a 4-H member with livestock projects for ten years. My beef and swine projects taught me a great work ethic. My sisters and I put a higher priority on the care that was given to our animals than we did for ourselves. We put hours every day, into making sure our cattle and hogs had optimal nutrition and living conditions. Growing up on my family's beef cattle farm, I learned to treat animals well because it was the farmers' job to provide the omnivores of the world a wholesome, nutritious and high-qualtiy source of protein. After my 4-H career I even worked in an animal harvest facility for two years. I can truly say that I have raised, harvested and consumed my own beef and pork. I believe it is important for the future of a hungry world that kids have the opportunity to learn how to respect animals, treat them with dignity in life and in harvest, and continue to meet the nutritional needs of a growing population through organizations like 4-H. While I respect those who choose a different dietary lifestyle than myself, there are people all across the world that depend on our U.S. supply of animal protein. It is vital to educate the next generation on how to meet that need.
Someone should have told our ancestors about how atrociousness their hunting behavior was and they should have just starved. Then we wouldn't be having this 'debate' today... mostly because we wouldn't be here today.
I did not do 4-h, but I did raise my own cow every 4 years for slaughter. For my family it was a way to cut the cost of beef. We could have up to 10 people at my house for dinner on a given night and raising our own beef and having a family garden helped take down the cost of things. I would say that I am not desensitized to the death of an animal, but its a different feeling than when a person I know dies. For me an animal is an animal. They do feel pain, happiness, and sadness; but its an animal. If its purpose is to become food then that's its purpose in life. Yes I felt sad when my cat got hit by a car, even recently when my goat of 16 years died of old age. But I don't spend the day crying, I had an emptiness in my heart for a moment or two, then moved on. If a person in my life dies then that is a different story. IT was a PERSON, who could TALK to me, INFLUENCE my life in some way. Totally different then watching the butcher come out with his truck, load up his shot gun and shoot my cow (whom we named Beef-Cake), because I knew that he filled his purpose, and that he had a good life on my little farm in CA.
4-H teaches youth about farming and animal husbandry. Many of these students come from farming families and 4-H provides a group setting where different people come and instruct the kids on how to care for animals, grow different foods and make crafts. These are skills that are going extinct in our country/day.
Let me ask you this? Can you go a week without going to the market to get food? Can you in your urban settings grow your own garden to feed your family? Can you raise your own chickens for eggs/food, raise your own dairy cows for milk and make butter? For most of us we would answer "No".
We need groups like 4-H and FFA to teach this generation how to raise animals and grow our foods.
Remember "Without Farmers, there is NO food".
This article is silly and only a further example of the liberal agenda of the media. Only someone extremely ignorant could mistaken the killing of animals as bad. We have thousands of medicines, medical procedures, medical devices, surviving communities from famine, clothing, transportation, protection, and many mores things all from using animals, often having to kill them.
Most UFC/MMA fighters are vegan/vegetarian. So those sissy hippies can eat their salad and than whoop the ignorant shit out of you manly meat eating tough guys.
Never bring a Vegan to a gun fight.
Yes most UFC/MMA are vegitarians not vegans because many people (expessily UFC/MMA fighters) consider themselfs vegitarians evan though they eat eggs and fish.
WELL said dodge017!!!
Corpse munchers wouldn't last 30 seconds in the cage AND they NEED to overcompensate with machismo for the fact that most are impotent by clogging their arteries with all that cholesterol!!!
LOL!!!
I confess, I don't eat meat, except for my boyfriend's throat sausage. And no meat byproducts, except for throat yogurt. I like an occasional meatpipe in the seat, or sausage in the can.
I think American eat way too much meat. I for the most eat meat only about once a week if that. With that said though just because you eat meat doesn't mean you are unhealthy as if we see most of are elite athletes are meat eaters. On the other side just because you are vegetarian doesn't mean all you eat is salads. There's many options of food out there for vegetarians and also it doesn't quite mean you are healthier. Remember sugar people. Now my problem with vegetarians is that much like religious extremist, they try to push too much of their beliefs and practices on others.
I'm guessing that more than one card holding PETA member is one of those complainers. Simply put, get out of your Manhattan apartment, get your hands dirty WORKING the land and feeding yourself and you'll be eating cow. And I'm not talking The Fabulous Beekman Boys working the land.... If I had been "desensitized" as a 4H member, stupid comments from ignorant people who not get me as angry as this did!
I was heavy in 4h. I cried when i sold my first steer, but guess what, all of those 11 yrs in $h taught me how to respect, take care, of all my animals from horses to chickens. NOW my 11 yr daughter is in her 3rd yr in 4h. She has taken goats, and gets very upset when they have to be sold, BUT she will tell ya that the money she gets from them will help her in her future. She is the one that feeds, cleans, doctors her goats, she feeds her horses etc. So far it has taught everything she needs to know about animals. She knows where they will end up, and where. 4H is a GREAT thing to have your kids into. Yes some do cry, but they get over it as soon as they get that check in the mail. There was a girl in my county that was in 4h for 11 yrs. guess what she bought a house and paid for her first yr in college IN CASH in FULL with the money she earned from selling her animals at the county fairs. WOW right there tells ya something how well 4h is.
4-H isn't just about animals and farming! 4-H kids today also do robotics, rocketry and computer science too! The best part is that kids choose what they want to do.
What is wrong with CNN? Not everyone needs to buy into the latte sipping, metrosexual, multi-cultural, BULL$h1+ they continue to dish out.
Someday there will be an article about how stupid people look driving a Prius and wearing skinny jeans.
Get a life CNN.
What is wrong with CNN? I think the answer is obvious. It is run by liberal ignoramuses who won't be content until everybody lives, thinks and even eats EXACTLY LIKE THEM.
And what is funny is that they think we are the intolerant ones.
lol
I concur, you are my new hero.
Whoever wrote this article obviously needs a reality check. I live on a farm and I am currently majoring in animal science. Raising livestock for slaughtering purposes is part of nature. Yes we get attached to them, but it's part of life. I was NEVER desensitized due to the fact or how i was brought up. I love animals and would never do something to them i thought was unethical. I am currently paying for an education to help those animals who need it. Do you still think im a killer? Look around at how horses suffer ever since the horse slaughter act was put into place. They are let loose, because people aren't able to feed them. They end up wondering around being hit by cars or worse suffer, starve to death and die. To those who think killing livestock is horrible, you think letting them suffer and die is better? Obviously if you think so, you should reconsider the way you live your life and your thoughts. You are worse than those who support slaughtering for food and educational purposes.
The 4-H, FFA are great orginizations that help kids out. I guess the people aginst these orginizations have there kids sit at home a wach tv and play on facebook all day.
First of all, 4-H is not all about livestock. 4-H involves crafts, sewing, cooking, baking, heritage, and horticulture. 4-H clubs are designed to educate youth on basic skills. 4-H helps youth to make positive choices, become involved in their community, and develop responsibility.
Second of all, one comment stated "This group helps desensitize youngsters into having no emotional attachment to animals raised for food." I am not sure about anyone else ever involved in 4-H, but I had way more of an emotional attachment to my animals than anyone not in 4-H. I thought that was a good thing? Also, 4-H does not slaughter the animals–the slaughterhouses do. I was never encouraged in 4-H to slaughter my animals or not care about what happened to them. 4-H does not give "points" for killing animals–so perhaps people that believe this should check into the video games, websites, and television shows that their children are watching before speaking.
Third of all, one comment stated that, "This is pretty disgusting. It's like what Hitler and the Catholic church does. Get people when there young and warp their minds. " Can you honestly refer to 4-H and Hitler in the same sentence? First of all, these animals would be slaughtered regardless of whether the kids were in 4-H or not. 4-H is used to educate children and the only mind warping it does is education and responsibility. What is so wrong about knowing how the food supply works? Nothing.
Finally, 4-H requires every 4-Her who shows livestock to attend a Quality Assurance training before they are allowed to show. This is required every year unless the students test out at an older age. Quality Assurance training teaches students how to take care of their animals, raise them correctly, and treat them humanely.
4-H goes above and beyond to teach students about their animals and how to treat them humanely. Before you compare 4-H to Hitler or try to say that 4-H encourages killing, check your facts. Then go in the living room and look at what your children are watching. I can almost guarantee students have seen and heard more about killing on television, video games, and on the playground than they have in 4-H.
I rest my case.
People are omnivores, that's the way it goes. The USDA has strict laws in place for the humane handling of animals that are bred to be food. I guess the people who moan about meat eaters would also think sharks are murderous and would try to make them eat seaweed so the little fish didn't get "murdered".
Children growing up on farms have experienced the slaughtering of animals long before 4 H was even a glimmer in someone's eye. This is the most ludicrous story title I've ever read.
Wow, Carnivore, your argument is so inspiring, so intelligent. Yes, you have swayed me, SWAYED ME.
Giggle.
Absolutely every single thing you just posted is pure bullshit man, every single word from the top to the bottom.
I prefer to get my meat from the grocery meat section where no animals are harmed in the process. Why would anyone want to actually kill an animal for meat, when they can get death-free meat that is sealed in plastic and presented next to an appetizing selection of spices and marinades?
Of course! Only savages kill animals for meat! Civilized people eat only meat from the Moon Meat Mine!
You know where that meat comes from? A cows dead body.
I eat pig's feet, hog maws, all that. Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of nothing
The people that are "desensitized" to killing animals are those that never SEE the animals. All the vast majority ever see in the United States are prepackaged cuts of meat. They live lives that never get them off an artificial surface. They have never been to a butcher shop in other countries where birds are hanging from hooks on the ceiling. They see "legs and thighs" or "boneless breasts". They have no idea which muscle is cut for filet mignon. Few have seen entire fish. All they see is "fish sticks" or "fish patties".
This article is entirely processed male bovine feed.
Ha! That last part made me giggle more then just a little bit.
Reading the flames, munchin' on beef jerky. Mmm, meat.
Of course leftist urban trendoids think that 4H is cruel. The meat they eat is spontaneously generated in the special meat production box in the back room of the supermarket, right next to the chicken synthesizer and the fish replicator. No cruelty for them! Hypocrites.
What on earth does this have to do with liberalism you whacked out right wingers? To you guys anything that isn't presented to you from Fox News is left wing and liberal. Jesus Christ. This article has absolutely nothing to do with liberal politics.
Can you please make your point without taking God's name in vain?
Funny, how most people here sling mud at the vegetarians/vegans.
Do some research before you make a post. Take some time and do some valid research (note, this research doesn't come from websites with agendas, but from third/neutral parties). It's a fact that most Americans over-consume meat and meat products. Just look at the leading causes of deaths in the USA. Sure, eat your meat, but think about cutting back for health reasons. Not to mention ethical and environmental reasons. The 4H doesn't direct kids one way or the other... they cannot brainwash your children..., and if you're that concerned about it take time to do research and educate your kids according to your beliefs, that's your right anyways!
From what I can tell, the only vegetarians people are getting mad at are those who are up in arms against meat-eaters. It's a free country, like it or not.
How unbelievably uneducated this story is. 4-H is a program for youth development. What it teaches at its core are life skills in communication, responsibility, integrity, team work, hard work, and continual learning. Yes some kids do show market animals. However to believe that all 4-H is is about slaughtered animals is like assuming all that is America can be gleaned from one visit to one city. I grew up in 4-H and was even able to attend college in part due to scholarships I received in the program. I never raised or showed any livestock but I did tour a meat packing facility a couple times. And that was during a cooking project. We learned about different cuts and grades of meat and how to best and properly prepare them. So this clearly desensitised this pro life, anti death penalty individual. The alternatives to being in 4-H, such as being in a gang clearly would have been a much better choice for my development into a contributing member of society.
I would like everyone to visit a farm and spend time with 4-Hers working with their cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, ducks, and chickens and any other animals that I may have forgotten. You will see the true compassion that kids have for their animals, but they know the facts of life. I showed cattle and every summer, at the end of the fair it was time to sell them. It is their purpose. I would appreciate it if people would do their research on 4-H before they start talking about something they know nothing about. 4-H has so many values that it teaches today's youth that are forgotten in the hustle and bustle of the fast moving cities. It is a way of life, and it is a living. Farming is the backbone of the United States, and the world. Kids are to sheltered today, parents not teaching or letting their children be educated on different types of living and cultural salutations. There are people and kids who have never been to a farm, have no idea what one really looks like besides what is depicted in movies. And mostly they have no idea where their food comes from besides the store.
For crying out loud!
I have never read such a liberal, alarmist, or biased example of journalism in my entire life. 4-H helps our youth in rural areas stay involved in the community. Most who are members are also involved in the agricultural community in some way, so they understand that their efforts lead to sustaining a nation. There can be no comparison between 4-H and the meat factories because purchasing a 4-H-raised animal means you can see the animal before buying it. You then know whether or not it's healthy and can dispatch it in as humane a way as possible before slaughtering the meat. How about examining the benefits of membership in more detail? The sense of involvement in your community, learning the value of hard work, or making lifelong friends? Or keeping kids and teenagers involved so that they don't stray into destructive habits like drinking or drugs? No. Instead, the typical urbanite vegan goes on a rampage trying to tear down a way of life that she neither knows anything about nor understands, but which effectively sustains life in the entire United States via crop and animal harvesting. Well, here's one right back at you.
I'd say educationg children (or anyone for that matter) of where their food comes from whether it is a living creature or a plant is very important. If education = desensitization them maybe. (for the ignorant)
My sister and I both went through the 4-H program. She showed goats and rabbits, where as I showed goats, rabbits, dairy beef feeders and beef steers. I was more interested in learning all aspects of agriculture and she was only interested in a small part. She is a vegetarian now and I raise beef cattle on a farm. Guess what, we both experienced the exact same things but she chose one method for her diet and I another. She has a very good knowledge of the production animal market and still promotes 4-H, all the projects terminal and non terminal. Even though she is a vegetarian we get along and can talk intelligently about production animals, so take my advice and meet a farmer, maybe even a 4-H kid and see why they are so passionate about their industry! We aren’t desensitized, just more aware of what it takes to raise animals for food production.
This is the single most ignorant article I have read yet on this website. I was in 4H for ten years. The goal is to teach young people responsablity and to give them a taste of the real world. These animals are not meant to be thought of as pets. I love animals and believe that we should be good stewards, and that is what 4H promotes. I really think that CNN should spend its time reporting real news not this biased drivel.
Eat mor chiken!
What a really stupid premise; that raising animals for food "desensitizes" to killing. Let's see how this goes. A 4-H kid buys a cow, with their own money not mom and dads, the cow gets pregnant but has trouble delivering on a very cold, windy March morning so the kid rolls out of the sack at 4:00 A.M. to "pull the calf" (assist the cow in delivery for those of you in the PETA group that wouldn't know a cow from a bull or steer). The kid then moves the new mama cow and calf to a barn so they are protected; gotta protect that investment. The kid then doctors the cow and the calf till the calf is strong enough to survive. When the calf is weaned the kid takes the calf and feeds it by hand and doctors it by hand so he/she can show it at a county fair (yeehaw). He/she washes and grooms the calf regularly and trains it to walk on a lead until the big day comes. The kid hauls the calf to the county fair, or state fair (yeehaw) where the kid sells it to a buyer who pays three times what the animal is worth so the kid has the funds to do the same thing again next year. Sound to me like a process that really does devalue life and de-sensitizes the kid to killing. What foolishness. If you took every inner city kid and walked them through this process we wouldn't be having the problems we're having in the country. 4-H teaches about the realities of life, personal responsibility friendship and a whole group of values that aren't being taught in schools, churches or homes. I think every kid should be required to be in 4-H. Screw the critics!
The same people who are saying 4-H is desensitizing children to killing might be the same people who park their children infront of the t.v., video game, etc all day. At least the children involved in 4-H are out doing something constructive that will build skills sets, leadership abilities, and citizenship skills rather than a couch potatoe zombie that will stay unemployed living in their parents basement until he/she is 30.
There is a difference between raising animals as pets and rasing animals for food. There are emotional ties to both. Just because one is eaten doesn't mean you haven't loved it, cared for it, and became attached to it. If anything, this program shows the reality of how we get food to the grocery store. It doesn't magically appear. It has to be raise from a baby, into adolecence and then into adulthood where it finally becomes food on your plate. If more people truly understood how are food is raised instead of reading sensationalized articles and idiotic comments on said articles by anonymous people, then articles like these would be so outrageous who would waste their time.
Please, know your food, know your farmer, and be a responsible consumer.
As a former 4H member and now 4H advisor nearly 40 yrs total and country born and bred not to mention educated. I can tell you these kids and parents work HARD and they are no haters. A lot of times that money earned when their project is done is used for college education so you are not supporting them thru welfare with a strew of babies and other means. they learn to be self sufficient, well mannerd, educated, they know the meaning of work, goals and perfection. While helping their fellow human allong with livestock. We've helped developed Engineers, Dr's, lawyers, nurses, teachers, reasearch scientist, photographers over the yrs to name a few. While they and others are learning about animals and the food chain, I strongly suggest you dine on your local lawn complete with chemicals or the food grown in the magic back room of your local grocery while wearing those pricey shoes that some child under 10 made in some slum country. Who says farmers don't treat their cows good, never got out of bed at 20 below zero to make sure they had their needs taken care of 1st. Wake up ppl, you cant live in a pretend world if you want to eat and surrvive.
I don't care what any of you think about raising and killing animals for food. Be a vegan and spout off your D-bag rhetoric as much as you want , but don't come between me and my steak. You live your life, and I'll live mine.
Hear Hear!! I may just stab you with my knife if you come between me and my dinner!
If it's not human, it's there for eating.
yes, 4-h desensitizes kids to killing. but these kids are closer to understanding the role bovines and other animals play in american food chain than the majority of americans (who, ironically, resemble bovines). this headlne should be less bait-ey, because 4-h desensitizes kids to the reality that eating an animal requires killing the animal. but what's the scare here? should we be more concerned whether or not a group of intelligent, knowledge seeking kids are being desensitized to human killing by watching people being shot, blown up and killed on tv every night (including iraqis and afghanistanis on this news channel?). also, cnn is making money off your opinion. this question was asked so people would argue. every post, including this one, becomes a number on a spreadsheet. that spreadsheet is used to sell advertising. look at the banner ad at the top right of this page or the one below. ad placement prices are negotiated by # of visitors/click through rates. that we've expressed our opinions here just makes cnn more money. click one of the banner ads to make them even more money. the economic recovery is underway. now, let's all buy a boat.
My family is deeply involved in 4H. We work at the local county fair and also witht he junior livestock auction. To say that this "desensitizes" kids is a total fabrication. Both of my children raise and show animals, specifically goats. We like the animals but the truth is theyu are raised as meat animals. The kids care for them fro birth but the understanding is that the animals are being raised for slaughter. We don't celebrate that fact but it is the truth. Why should it be sugar coated? It is true I see kids every year that are crying when they leave the sale ring. It's hard to see but it drives home the fact that they do care.
Rule one, don't name your food like a pet. Vegetables are what food eats. I think everyone should know how to dispatch, clean and dress food sources, whether land or water dwelling. I also think everyone should know what vegetables are edible and well as what ones are not. It never ceases to amaze me how much is NOT taught anymore. Living in North New Jersey in the late 60's we brought our shotguns to school during small game season and many would hunt when going home in the after noon or take one of the other buses that went further out on the game lands or farms where we had permission to hunt. Both my son and daughter hunt, If I had had more time I would have gotten involved in 4H where I now live in rural Pa so my kids would have learned more.
4-H is an excellent organization. In our society, most people do not understand where there food comes from. 4-H teaches children to value the food that is served to them. These children learn the money, time, and effort that it takes to produce meat. For those of you who are vegetarian, I respect that choice. I will not tell you that you are wrong for refusing to eat meat. In return, I expect the same respect. Eating meat is a valid dietary choice, whether you believe that or not.
I owe 4-H a debt of gratitude for teaching me leadership, responsibility, public speaking, social, goal-setting, budgeting, and hard work. Regardless of weather you agree with meat production, you should realize that 4-H'ers are some of the most responsible, intelligent, and hard working children you will ever meet. They understand where their food comes from and how much it takes to provide that food.
My daughter (13 yrs old) raises lambs. She is an active 4-Her. She feeds her own animals. She gives them their shots. She cleans their pens, feeds them treats and takes them for walks. She cleaned up the mess when the neighbor's pit bulls got loose and attacked. She insisted that we drive their bodies two hours away to a wolf reserve so their deaths would not be wasted. It's her tiny hands that pulls the lambs out of their mothers when they get stuck. She's the one who bottle feeds the ones that are too small to make it on their own. She is there from the day they are born till the day they go to the butcher. She loves them. Every one of them has a name and a place in her heart. I am proud of her and of those tears she cries when her lambs go through auction. She knows they are headed to the butcher and then to someone's dinner table and her tears bear witness to the fact that she respects and values both their life and their sacrifice. It is important for her to understand where her food comes from and at what cost.
I was a 4-H kid. I raised and butchered my own animals. I see small scale farming as more humane and ethical than factory farms. When you're only raising 2 cows or 4 pigs at a time, each animal is cared for to a much higher standard than it would in a pen of hundreds of it's kind. My understanding and appreciation for eating meat grew because of my role in 4-H. I know where my food comes from and I care how the animals I eat are treated.
For the people who think eating meat is unethical, you aren't going to convince enough Americans to stop the meat industry. You're better off focusing your efforts on the humane treatment of stock animals. Animals are better served on small farms than in industrial settings.
While I haven't eaten red meat in almost 20 years, I found this to be a very irresponsible column merely written to criticize an organization representing the breadbasket of America. I choose not to eat red meat for personal resaons but certainly don't force my beliefs on others. We don't have to go back too many generations when most of our families were growing and raising their own food. I have friends with kids in 4H and they can raise a calf to send to auction yet have a family dog that they love and sleep with. They certainly are not desensitized.
good post
Thank you for your insightful comment. I respect your personal decisions and certainly appreciate you respecting those of others.
You want to start talking about how 4-H *supposedly* desensitizes children, but it is actually the people like you who are blinded by their own ignorance. There is also a saying for people lke you "Ignorance is Bliss". We 4-Hers participate in these activities so that we can be better prepared for possibly enternig these job fields when we grow up. 4-H is much more than just raising livestock. 4-H is about "Making the Best better", and creating life-long memories in the process. Idiocy is a disease that can't be cured when ignorance is present.
I was in 4-H for 10 years while growing up and it was one of the best experiences of my youth. In my club we did a lot of crafts and community service functions but I had plenty of friends who lived on farms and raised animals. The 4-H program does not work to desensitize kids about their feelings towards animals they raise. In 4-H I was given many leadership opportunities and they have served me well in my career. Great organization!
Bring on the MEAT!... I was never in 4-H but my cousins in Alabama are and my aunt is a coordinator for her local club. I saw a live auction and slaughter by the time I was 7 years old. My grandfather owned a farm and raised livestock. There are harsh realities to the nature of our existence and eating animals is one of them. Humans ARE omnivores so get over it. Somebody has to do the dirty work to make life easy for those too lazy or scared to do it themselves. You're dreaming if you think the entire human race will become herbivores overnight... Even if they did, it would only thrust us further into environmental peril, as we eat all of the plants that provide us oxygen and provide food for other animals (that would become extinct in this case).
IF YOU HAVE EVER EATEN MEAT, MEAT PRODUCTS OR USED ANYTHING THAT INVOLVED ANIMALS IN THE TESTING OR PRODUCTION, keep your criticism to yourself!
I dont know how to tell you this, since many of you seem to use the same ignorant argument, but if we all became vegetarians we would eat LESS plant life because it takes more plant life to feed a farm animal than that farm animal produces in meat. If we all became vegetarians there would be MORE food and MORE oxygen Mr. Simple Mind.
Clearly dodger, YOU are the ignorant one. As I've commented before: visit a farm and learn the truth about how animals are raised. The plant life that is used to feed farm animals is NOT the same plant life that humans can or do consume. Before you make accusations, learn the facts.
Not a huge fan of eating beef, its so tough and bad for you. I really prefer Veal. And rabbit. Venison is also good.
God, I would kill for a hamburger right now! All this chatter has really got me jonesing for some Wendy's....
Where are all my fellow PETA members at?
And by PETA I mean: People Eating Tasty Animals.
the vegetarians are killing the kelp! oh the humanity!!
A nation of sensitive panzies who wouldn't last one week without the local grocery
To the people that claim we are cruel to raise animals, then eat them... You my friends are the uncivilized people who forgot where your food comes from, how your ancestors made a living, and who take so many things in life for granted. Ignorantly criticize Agriculture development and education programs all you want. Maybe someday you'll turn to eating food grown from a petri dish. I'm sure it'll satisfy for food welfare and safety concerns... oops, so much for my filter.
I can't even imagine how many people would starve if everyone were a vegetarian...
That is because you are retarded. There would be a whole lot more food and a whole lot less starvation if everyone were vegetarian. Derrp
They wouldn't starve so much as die of malnutrition. We can get the calories we need from plants pretty cheaply, but to get all the nutrients we need we'd need an extremely varied diet, which gets very expensive. Most Americans could afford it with a few sacrifices, but many third world nations would struggle.
@Sarah
Let's get together and eat meat! Then we can eat each other!
Get a life! If you want to be a vegetarian, be one but stop looking down your nose at the rest of humanity when we all do something perfectly natural -eating meat. I know it must be "incredibly fulfilling" to believe you are morally superior to virtually every human that's ever walked the planet. It must be great to be so enlightened, but give the rest of us a break. We'll respect your choice, you do the same or at least just shut up. Ad by the way, I was not "emotionally attached" to the chicken sandwich I had today. I'm not trying to "be cruel to vegetarians" as one responder put it. I just want people to think twice before using inflammatory language language with words like "cruelty" about the perfectly natural process of growing food.
This is total crap who comes up with this nonsence it's almost comical? Kids these day's are gonna grow up to be such cupcakes, computer games and soft dainty parents are killing this country!!
As a 4-H leader and the mother of two daughters, both of whom raise cattle, chickens, and sheep as part of their 4-H project, I have to say that I am stunned that anyone would think that our kids are being desensitized to the death of any living thing, much less animals. My daughters are two of the most compassionate young people around. They appreciate that the meat we eat was once a living animal because they raised the animal themselves!
As parents it is up to us to teach our children the right way to go, and the opportunities presented in the 4-H program are but several tools we use to do just that.
As a 10 year member of 4-H taking both beef and sheep projects, and now a leader of our couty sheep club in Indiana. I truely feel that anyone that is against 4-H and doesn't allow their kids to be in it is doing a great injustice to their kids! I bought my steers in early fall and had them until July, yes they were my PETS! However, death is a part of life. Animals that are sent to a processing plant are killed in teh most humane way possible. Where as kids that sit and play HALO or Call of Duty are learning to kill in cold blood and hate each other.
The livesetock 4-H project is meant to teach kids about everyday agriculture. And as long as you keep enjoying a nice big juicy steak, animals will keep providing that for you. Its a fact of life. 4-Her's learn early on about animal welfare.
As an Ag Teacher for two years I took my animal science class on a field trip to a beef processing house. I learned that no matter what anyone thinks the kids need to see it. I had multiple kids tell me after the trip that it was nothing like they imagined. They could tell that the animal felt no pain during the kill process. The group of kids that I took was made up of mainly kids that lived in town and didn't have any experience with farms, sprinkled in with a few farm kids.
The world is just overly sensitive to everything that goes on in the agriculture industry. And while everyone likes to eat no one wants to know where it comes from.
Seriously people? The heart of America is in beef. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve of "high volume" slaughter houses, but farmers raise beef for quality – and FOOD. Just like chickens, fish, etc.
Was this article put up just to see how many people would get annoyed about it? The writer is a complete loonie. To suggest that 4-H is for "desensitizing kids to killing" is just ludicrous. Where do you idiot bunny-lovers think the meat in the supermarket comes from. This drivel is straight from the PETA lunatics.
This is one of the stupidest articles ive seen on cnn, coming from rural florida my who family raises livestock for our family. There is an attachment to something that youve raised from a piglet no doubt, but you always know that you are raising it to be eaten and there is nothing wrong with that, it didnt make me a heartless monster, i have a dog and a cat of my own who I care for and would literally cry if they died. But somehow saying that raising your own animal to be eaten is unethical is ignorant, home raised animals have a much better and cleaner life than ones on a large commercial farm, and there is zero chance of catching mad cow or some other disease related to treatment of the animal or its meat when the animal is raised at home
The article might as well be titled, "Do Farms Desensitize Kids to Killing?" or "Do Pets Desensitize Kids to Killing?" The answer is an unabashed unashamed YES. There is no way you can raise animals of any kind, even dogs or cats, and not be aware that animals die. I remember the first time I had been exposed to death was when the family dog died. It awakened me to the fact that /all things die/.
As a farm kid, it's more of a reality on a farm that animals die. Sometimes, animals die so that we can eat them. They are living things that are raised for a specific purpose. Dogs are raised for companionship, horses for transportation, and cows for beef. Farms give kids a way healthier outlook (in my opinion) on the nature of death and why things die.
My husband is a vegetarian, and I respect the fact that he doesn't wish to partake in meat. He respects that I do. I've raised animals for 4-H and raising beef put me through my first two years of college. Meat has educated me, fed me, and helped me adjust to the simple fact that things die for a reason, and life goes on. I can't think of a better lesson to teach kids, honestly.
If you ate any food today, you should thank a farmer.
Ha! And all this time I thought 4-H club was some sort of pre-teen character building thing.
Wow...seriously? Ok...in order to eat you have to remove life from either plant or animal. The degree of "morality" is 100% arbitrary. Something must die for others to live, and simply people come first.
What is amazing to me is how people think this happend all of a sudden. The killing of animals for food has been going on for centuries. It does not DESENSITIZE children. I was raised in the 4-H lifestyle. I am an NRA, NWTF, TRA, and WITO member. For you that do not know those are hunting clubs. The animals I have killed I eat, same with the cattle we have raised, some we sell, and some we kill for meet. I do not feel densensitized, as I love animals (I have several, dogs, cats, horses, goats, cattle, chickens, turkeys), but killing for food is not wrong, nor will it ever be wrong. What is wrong is how children at my local elementry have no idea where burgers and chicken nuggets from McDonald's comes from. They don't know that a burger is cow meat, and chicken nuggets is actually chicken meat. To me that is densensitizing children. Not telling them or providing them the knowledge of where their food comes from.
Seriously your taking on 4-H. A club that keeps children focused, busy, and out of trouble. So you would rather have them sitting on their tails in front of the tv/computer, or running around getting into trouble. What a cause you are on. How about you take up the cause of feeding all the hungry children in the USA with the meat from the cows that are sold at the 4-H auctions. I bet those children would not care how that cow felt, just that they have food on their plate.
Durrrrrrrrrp. Seriously folks, where do ya think hamburger comes from? useless article
alas; American Indians bred domesticated dogs because they didn't have anything else which could haul goods and property. Those dogs were their beloved pets; when the going got tough, those dogs also made a great meal. Why must we fret over such minute issues? Why must we call each other murderers and fools etc.? What does abortion have to do with this?...well more than one would think. What value does a human life have when it can be created in a test tube? Hell, what does "value" even mean? Throw away the subjectivity and realize that in order to substantively exist one must take an objective stance from a relative position. Sometimes I wonder what my dog would taste like in a good stew...is that wrong? Is it fair that through advanced medicine we allow our animals and grandparents to live well past their limited lifetime warranty creating even more complicated problems leading eventually to a quite miserable and prolonged death? May the world be engulfed in flames and our souls float through the time-space continuum so I can be rid of your stupidity. Good riddance.
Take your meds...
As a 10 yr 4-Her, and now a 4-H Mom, I'd like to share that I feel that learning where food comes from and about the cycle of life is terribly important for my children. Living things are born, grow and then die. That's how it is. Every living being has a purpose. That's also a truth. I teach my children to care properly for their animals, and respect their sacrifice. How much food does your child waste? Do you think he or she would waste as much if they understood the work involved in producing it, if they raised some portion of that food themselves?
4-H livestock projects are about learning important life lessons, like appreciating your food and other blessings, and about understanding the cycle of life and death. You can't shield them from the harder realities of life. And in learning the harsh things, you experience a great deal of beauty, too. These things balance out, in my experience.
Proud to be a former 4Her, mother of 4Hers and 4H leader. Teaching the youth of America leadership skills and pride in what they do. On a personal note, I am also an agricultural professional that respects others rights not to eat meat and just wished the same respect was on my choice to take care of animals wisely for the consumption of high-quality protein and essential amino acids.
One more thought... With all the violence on video games, TV and movies...it's 4H that desensitizing kids?? Really?
Aww...now see...all you had to do was walk away. But instead you came back and had to be a hypocrite. So close...
I cannot believe how sick and disgusting some of you are. Many people here are proud of the fact that they kill and eat other living things. If you do eat meat I can understand that, but to express pride and joy in the mistreatment of another life form is absolutely disgusting. By the way, every cow eats more vegetation than it provides meat. So those of you saying by not eating meat we would starve have absolutely no case. Its ass backwards. There is also not a single nutrient you cannot get from plants. There are a lot of ignorant meat eaters here who are simply ignorant or just telling straight out lies. In absolutely every single case and scenario it is better to be a vegan than a meat eater. Every single one.
Go to a farm.
Humans can't eat the same vegetation (silage) that cows do. Common sense. So while they do consume more vegetation, if we eliminated the practice of raising them for food, we wouldn't get any more food from it.
Let me know how your GRASS diet goes... Nobody here is "proud" of killing animals for food. PLant eaters are always so condescending when they get on their high horse. Always pointing the finger at people who work hard (harder than most) to provide the things that help to sustain life for our societies. THIS IS THE NATURAL ORDER OF THINGS. If you own a stich of leather, use make-up/beauty products, own furniture, etc... you have no ground to stand on. Even the reflective paint used to make the trafic lines in the road contain what were once of living organisms critters (FUN FACT: that's why road paint is reflective). Either accept it or loathe yourself to sleep.
Of all the ridiculous useless politically correct left wing articles I have read this may be the worst ever.
EXACTLY!!!
If you don't want to approve then don't participate but you have no cause to prevent others from participating. K....thanks.....bye
Americans are so far removed from the food they put in their mouths. People really need to think about where that Big Mac comes from or where did that gallon of milk comes from. As a farm kid, I learned to RESPECT the animal in 4-H and learned RESPONSIBILITY and ACCCOUNTABILITY, one of the things children have no concept of these days. Mom & Dad usually take care of everything attitude Yes, I KNEW that at the end of the 4-H year, I would have to sell my animal and KNEW what was to happen to it., as the beef steer was destined for slaughter. And yes, I cried. As a youngster, it was a difficult thing to experience, but prepared me for the hard things we have to learn about and deal with as adults. Death being an obvious one. I also learned social skills and developed a great sense of fellowship, experiences that help us fit into humanity and function. I firmly believe that 4-H is an organization that does NOT desensitizes children from killing, but rather develops a greater awareness of life and its cycles. I believe also that 4-H teaches children AWARENESS of the world around us, how animals DO serve us, as WE serve them by caring for them and giving them food and shelter. What more could an I think the author of the article here should actually take adequate time to research before launching assaults and accusations. Seems that any reputable writer would.
I can't believe how cruel people are to vegetarians in this thread. I have been a vegetarian 20 years and never told anyone how to live their lives or that they were stupid for believing what they do. I am sad to see so many do this here.
But I will make at least a few points that I haven't heard mentioned. First, my school affiliated with 4-H and FFA was in a big city, and a few of our members did go on to activities like gangs. Unfortunately, there was even an incident where they hurt some animals and an animal had to be put down because it was crushed. This was not common however.
Incidentally, no one has mentioned that even not all of these clubs follow all the safety and ethical treatment rules. Our school was cited multiple times, but it was always the teachers that didn't follow these rules. Most of the kids loved their animals. We worked with steer, cows, pigs, sheep, goats, chickens, and rabbits (our group also did gardening). Many kids got very attached and purchased their animals so they wouldn't have to be slaughtered.
I knew some that became "desensitized" to killing because it was done often right in front of their eyes. However, no one has mentioned the other possibility and that is kids becoming more sensitive. I absolutely attribute my time in the program as what sparked my own vegetarianism. There are three others in the club during my time that also became vegetarians. I would be surprised if that isn't the case in other places as well.
Dear PETA, ect. T.V. violence and violent video games are culprits, not 4-H. Humans are carnivores, primarily. Why do you think we have those "eye" teeth and incisors? 4-H also promotes farming. Don't tamper with MY food supply. If you don't want to eat meat, etc. that's your choice. Stop trying to force your preferences on the majority.
Do any of the people who are opposed to"desentisizing youth" watch movies or play video games that promote violence between people? Talk about desentisization! Are you squaking about that too?
All you sensitized people who think 4-H is creating animal "Haters", come on over and I will fix you some tofu on the grill next to my rib eye.....and then watch your mouth water as I cut open that succulent steak.
Some people just won't be satisfied till everyone is a vegan.
God gave us dominion over the animal kingdom. It is not wrong to kill animals for food as long as the animal is killed quickly and as painlessly as possible. As much of the meat should be used as possible to minimize waste.
What about the slaughter of that innocent head of lettuce or that poor tomato? Oh the horror!!!
To all the vegens and vegitarians out there... Humans started off pure carnivores and only became omnivores after they over hunted and reduced their food supply. In fact the appendix is a bacterial breeding colony to aid in meat digestion (I think, not completly confident of this info, feel free to disprove it). Also desensitization does not automatically lead to enjoyment of killing and the cruelty.
My last comments are thus:
Think with your head, feel with your heart, Not the other way around.
We are who We choose to be, We will be no more, We can be nothing less.
Humans started off as vegetarians, but became omnivores as we moved out of the jungles and onto the plains.
Seriously, anyone who thinks being in 4H desensitizes the kids is a moron. If anything it heightens their appreciation for the food that they eat. The same thing goes for hunting. Those people who say they started do 4H or hunt and stopped, because they didn't like the thought of killing an animal are the very people who prove that it doesn't desensitize you.
How on earth do people like this get a spot in public forum as if they are experts. They have not thought that if it were not for the efforts of people in our rural country, they would propably not exist. They or their ansestors have depended upon farm bred food or crops at some time in their lives.
They obviously don't knowsquat about what 4H is or does. The majority of 4H members are rural / semi rural familyies that have depended upon raising animals or farming for most of their lives. Yes, its sad if an attachment develops, but I have seen several families adopt those animals and bring them back home. Get a life and get out of ours !
There was a woodchuck (ground hog) that was eating in my garden. It completely destroyed my cabbage and broccoli crop, and most of my beans. I shot it and cleaned it then let it soak in salt water for two days in the fridge. Cooked it in a crock pot for a few hours. It was surprisingly tasty! Better than rabbit. Try woodchuck – you won't be disappointed!
I am a 4-H leader and my children have been very involved in 4-H for several years. If by desensitization, you mean that it makes children aware that every piece of meat on our plate was once a living, breathing animal, then yes, I guess it does. We talk very frankly and freely about what it means to be an omnivore and what choices that entails. Our family does belive that the animals we raise are overall happier and treated more humanely than the animals raised commercially or in feed lots.
Quite frankly, I am surprised that more vegetarians and PETA members are not pro 4-H as at least it teaches children to make very informed descisions about where their food comes from. I feel most Americans a very far removed from the package of meat on their counter to the cow in the lot. Most Americans are totally squimish about killing themselves but then happily eat meat and wear leather. 4-H teaches responsibility and accountability for these choices. I think the anti 4-H folks are misguided because they believe a child simply could not raise an animal for meat, and be ok with that unless they are brainwashed. That is simply untrue. My children are humble, thankful and respectful of the food on their plate. Should they choose to remain omnivores or should they choose to become vegetarians, that is a choice we support. At least I know it will be an informed one.
4-H has done so much for our kids and the kids we lead. I feel they will be actual forces of change for the better in the world. They know hard work, accountability, responsibility and presentation skills. There are a lot of people in today's society who spend a lot of time feeling superior, and bemoaning the fact that others are not as enlightened as they are and doing nothing to make the world better. Meanwhile, the 4-H, FFA and farm raised kids are out, quietly and humbly working. "Take a little, give a lot", and "Love God, love others and serve the world" are our unofficial mottos. (Before the haters start posting- let me point out that we welcome children of all religious and spiritual beliefs, sexual orientation, race, ethinicity, whatever.)
Our County charges $35 a year for an unreal amount of services: sewing, rocketry, fishing, computers, consumer education, leadership, wind energy, food preservation, hydrology, etc. There are a ton of scholarships and money for kids involved in many, many areas of STEM (science, technology,engineering and mathmatics) with or without livestock. I urge any parent to run out and find your nearest 4-H club. You will not find a better youth organization, period.
Very well put.
I don't think it's desirable to put kids in front of the Xbox either. There are other activities in life :).
Or how about this... each of you could worry about your OWN children, beliefs, morals. I am sure each of you that agree against 4-H are eating a chicken sandwich as you write your comment...mean while that chicken you are eating started its life stuffed into a cage with 40 others and tube feed till it was fat. Yea that sounds a like a much better alternative to responsible raising of animals. Worry about yourself, you have plently more problems.
I am a 4H advisor, however I was not raised to know 4H at all. I now have 15 kids in my group and we currently do Horses (primarily), chickens and goats. We also do a handful of other things such as photography, scrapbooking, etc...
The reason I am writing is to respond to the people stating the kids are raising 'pets' and then they are all taken off to be sold to be killed. This is not the case. MOST of the animals that are done with 4h (with the exception of horses) are born with the intention of being eaten. This IS the reason they are alive. If it was not for the food industry, the animals wouldn't have a need to exist at all! The kids that get these pets know from the start these animals are to be sold at the end of the 'project'.
I would agree this does desensitize the kids to the letting-go of an animal. All three of my children are animal lovers and have their own pets they don't ever want to lose. My daughter has two pot-bellied pigs that are pets... not to be eaten. If they were to die, she would be very sad. We would have a funeral and we would weep. We would then go in the house, and fry up some bacon, from a hog that maybe another 4h kid raised.
The fact of the matter is we eat meat. We like meat. The vegitarians out there are not going to ever ever ever change that fact. It is in our genes, and how we are built. Get over it. I am not riding you to eat a porter house and you should not get on your high horse and try to tell me to eat vegies!
The comments about the animals suffering is unfounded and ignorant. Obviously there are many that do, and those plants need to be dealt with. There are many treated humainly (as humane as you can, when taking a life) and those pork chops are yummy!
We teach our kids to love animals and to respect them. Also to love nature and respect it as well. They learn all about the anatomy, how to keep them healthy, what to watch for, etc. It is educational, with the unintended consequence of desensitizing them to the loss of an animal. Let's face it, are we REALLY causing a lot of harm in this? Are we REALLY causing kids to have a 'throw away' mentality? I say no. Society as a whole is doing this. Advertising is doing this. You can't watch TV, read the paper or flip through a magazine without seeing an ad for the newest 'something'. Throw out the old and get the new. For those people commenting on that, get out of your car, stop reading this on your IPAD, turn off your PC, and live in a cave. Apparently you don't like the throw-away lifestyle...right? Afterall, where is the cell phone you used to have??
Just remember... none of these animals would EVEN exist if we didn't eat them. They just have a much shorter life span when not tagged as a 'pet'.
...this article is a joke, right?
Yeah, better pull your kids out of 4H and park them in front of the Xbox so they can play Black Ops all day. Wouldn't want to desensatize them, would we?
good point.
Hey, I think it's a cool idea to raise your own food, kill your own food, prepare it and all. I actually think I'm too sensitive because I'd actually like to own chickens and rabbits and be able to butcher them and have them for a meal, but I don't see myself able to kill these creatures. My parents raised animals for food when I was growing up, but I was never required to kill them. People used to do this all the time before you could go to the supermarket to get your food. I bet if you go back 100 years and have this same discussion people would laugh in your faces.
Obama has the gays, blacks, Muslims, radicals feminists and 24/7 Palin Syndrome Sufferers all wrapped up for next election. Is he pitching camp with those wild and cray vegans and vegetarians?
wild and crazy
You are ignorant. First off you know NOTHING about 4-H you idiotic fool. Secondly, at least we know better grammar than you do. It's people like you that ruin children. Foolish reporting.
Heather King (In Cold Blood) you made a (in your warped mind) valid point. So to humor you, we've all decided to stop feeding you. Buh Bye.
We are worried about 4-H. HOw sad. I teach and my First and second graders are allowed to play DS, video, play station games for hours that do nothing but shoot and kill other people, animals or objects. Talk about desensititation. And don't say the games are rated. The kids play all the mature games their parents do. These are the kids we should be worried about. The don't know the difference between real and fiction and when they are teens and have guns in their hands, watch out!!! It will not be the cows and sheep that need to worry.
Humans know what needs to be done to stop meat eating.....all tigers and lions, and other meat eating animals need to be protested against and corrected for such awful, and cruel behavior! Shame on ALL the animals that eat meat! I cannot believe a lion, or bear would kill a baby deer, or eat a fish trying to spawn! Its awful! I cry when I watch Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, and some cheetah kills a baby antelope to feed her evil, meat eating babies!! PISSES ME OFF!! I lose sleep over it. We need to take a stand against such evil things and teach these animals to eat veggies and berries! Maybe we can reverse extinction rates and have a world free of such horrible atrocities! This HAS to stop.
Thank you so much for the laugh. I needed it.
Who do you think farms all that local sustainably harvested organic food, or that local pasture raised grass fed beef? People should be encouraging young people to learn more about sustainable and responsible agricultural practices, and these programs are the way to do it.
For those of you trying to shove animal rights down our throats, for every animal you don't eat, I'll eat 3.
Asking PETA what they think of 4H is like asking the KKK what they think about the NAACP.
Just who are the author(s) of this article? Who are the authors of "Eatocracy" and what might their qualifications be?
From the looks of it, they have no credentials.
Let those who have troulbe eating anything once alive eat dirt, vegatation can grow in soil so obviously there is nutritional value in dirt. It would be a tragedy to have vegans and their like minded ilk feel remorse for enjoying a good meal. Myself, I can live with the guilt of supporting 4-H and enjoying a good steak, chicken, pork chop or anything else produced by those fine young men and women. Furthermore, CNN should concentrate on reporting news, not giving a voice to delusional whiners.
exactly!
This article would seem to appeal to the creepy, weenie-boy gamers that grew up in the bubble-wrapped suburbs. No wonder we are witnessing the "decline and fall" of America in real time.
I just have a REALLY hard time believing the problem with today's youth is 4-H.
I was one of those kids who cried each time my steer was sold–a 4-H member who cares deeply about her animals. As a 16 year old girl, I cried my heart out as I led my beloved Bubbles (yes, he had a name and the sweetest personality) onto the semi truck that would haul him to the slaughter plant.
From the moment I purchased Bubbles, I knew that he was meant to become beef, to feed someone a juicy steak, or hamburger, probably in some city I'd never even heard of. I knew that from the get-go, and I raised him anyway.
I fed him twice a day, making sure he always had plenty of clean water to drink (especially on hot days), many times before I myself ate my own breakfast and dinner. I taught him how to lead, how to show, and how to present himself in the showring.
At county fair time, I showed him and then sold him at the auction. Yes, I cried, but I cried because I knew that Bubbles had fulfilled his purpose–to become something that someone will eat. Bubbles was never intended to be a pet. After time is spent with a person or animal, you grow to care about them. I knew Bubbles was created to become food; but I still showed him love and respect, because that's how we are meant to treat other living things–people or animals.
Through 4-H, I have learned many things–how to bake awesome cookies, how to give a speech, how to be a leader, how to socialize, and have traveled the U.S. Another 4-H member I met became my husband. But the most important thing I learned through 4-H is about life. We are each born to fulfill a purpose, and that includes animals. I fulfill my individual purpose each and every day; Bubbles fulfilled his as someone's delicious steak. Everyone acknowledges that purpose, that cycle of life, each time we bite into a cheeseburger, a chicken nugget, or drink a glass of milk.
God created animals to provide food for us so that we could then glorify Him through our deeds.
Crap like this is what is going to kill our country. DESENSITIZING? IT'S A REALITY YOU MORONS! The animal has to die before we can eat it! Where is the logic, the outright common sense in this argument?
Let me guess, the people who think this is true are probably the same ones who wouldn't kill an armed robber in their own home because they're people too.
Pathetic.
just like the rest of you I will use my FREEDOM OF SPEECH to comment on this.
4H is a FABULOUS program. My daughter is actively involved and I am an actively involved parent. This club promotes good care and health of the animals, education to the children on so many levels.
the animals these kids raise are not done on steroids or fillers. these animals are not kept in dark crowded barns while being pumped with steroids to feed the masses (Like Corporate America does so you can conveniently go to the grocery store and get your steaks for the 4th of July Grilling!) These animals are well cared for, these kids do it themselves. they nurture and some of them teach them silly things. these kids do get attached and it is crushing for them when the animal is sold.
these kids raise enough money (depending on how many years they've been doing the animals) to put themselves through school or partially through school from the sale of the animals. they put it in the bank every year and by the time they are ready for college many of them can pay for 2-4 years of college. Plus the 4h program has scholarships also.
these kids understand the purpose of the animal and most have good leaders who teach them the difference between the way they are raising the animal and the way large corporations raise them.
these kids cry when they sell their Steer or pig. these kids get attached. But these children are also full of pride knowing THEY raised that animal.
Please, LEAVE $H ALONE!
if you going to attack 4H please find a reason to attack the Boy Scouts and the Girl Scouts, and don't forget to attack the FFA and oh I'm sure there are plenty of other 'HEART OF AMERICA' clubs you can attack to completely destroy what is left of this country.
In my experience with 4-H, kids that raise cows, sheep, rabbits spend a lot more time learning to breed these animals, care form them and give them proper veternarian care than slaughtering them. You average 4-H kids knows more about taking good care of livestock than any of these people demonizing this great program because some animals are sold for meat. 4-H kids have a lot more respect for life than other kids – including all these self righteous vegans and PETA members! Leave 4-H alone. It is a fantastic program for rural kids.
The eatocracy column really ought to be renamed the vegocracy column. The articles I've seen continue to promote incorrect 'truths' of all kinds, including ridiculous claims such as eating meat isn't healthy or that eating fat makes you fat. That said, the last thing I want to do is convince vegetarians to eat meat, as that will only drive up my costs. So, eat vegetables and be merry! (oh yeah, I'm a liberal who engaged his liberal brain to do the research to figure out what to eat - my conclusion has been to eat high quality meats and dairy of all kinds coupled with vegetables).
Last time I checked 4-H members were not walking around with automatic weapons hunting down animals in cold blood. I should know. I've been a leader for 4 years and was a 10 year member. Extension educators who manage 4-H work hard to teach youth the true value of working with animals. Yes, the award winning animals such as cows and pigs are auctioned off to local butchers at the end of fairs but it is done in a respectful manner and is very hard of the member. Their animals are part of their family. In many ways this is respectful and much more humane than any hamburger you buy from McDonalds.
Good comment!
@Rachel, let's get together and eat meat! Then we can eat each other!
I also believe that some of those animals are purchased for breeding, because of the excellent traits exhibited.
Yes, they are also purchased for breeding, especially the steer. Many other cattle holders do purchase the animals for this as well. It just irritates me because the person who wrote this article probably knows very little about how 4-H is actually ran. Ignorance spreads hate.
4-H = Columbine.
You are uneducated on this matter & need an eye opening!
I am quite educated on this matter, which makes it all the worse. This is an absurd article, written for absurd reasons. My statement just took it one step further. I suppose you could call it trolling, but I did not make the statement purely to get a rise out of people.
Well I guess when Cows are the only beings that will hang out with you, then you can make that analogy.
Strange, wasn't the lack of friends one of the core reasons for the Columbine shootings? In any case, my statement was taking the article to absurd lengths.
Docit- I bet you're laughing that you riled someone to respond to your post. Do you have anything else to say other than showing that you are not able to complete a sentence?
Why sure! I was merely pointing out how silly thinking 4-H turns kids into killers is. I just took it to absurd lengths. I was a member of 4-H for several years, and I am now an animal advocate, helping strays receive rehabilitation and find good homes. But being in 4-H and also being an advocate for animals has not turned me away from eating meat. I have no illusions where my food comes from. Then again, I suppose I might have some hidden inner killer waiting to come out, all thanks to 4-H. I guess we'll see. =)
This is the most absurd thing I have EVER read!! I am in absolute shock after reading this numb-skulled article! 4-H is one of the single most important aspects of a responsible child's life! Instead of planning unruley things to do with others every single night 4-Hers plan feed regimens, time to clean pens, feed & water animals, & time to walk & exercise said animals. I have shown swine since the ripe age of 2 1/2 years old. I currently still show & it is a huge part of my life! When I was in high school my nights consisted of practices for two varsity sports followed by carefully planned care or my 4-H animals, my pigs were exercised outside (that means in the open, on our 800 acre farm, not fenced in) at least 5/7 days of the week. I am truly personally offended by this article, I can say with near 100% certainty that the author of this article is likely a person who grew up without pets or the opportunity to show & is now expression anger due to jealousy. As I said before I am in complete shock of this article. I am a successful nursing student that works full time & also manages to handle my household & personal finances. Without all of my experience with time management & budgeting I have gained through 4-H my failure would be imminent. People need to get the facts, visit & meet with participants BEFORE writing non-sense that causes such distress in people who are wrongfully being called "desensitized killers."
It is good for us to know where our food comes from, veggies and meat, 4-H is one of the best experiences a young person can have. Also I would like to say Hats Off to the 4-H'ers that walked out of the Carrie Underwood's concert at their Natioal Convention a few years ago. Ms. Underwood is an avid supporter of the Humane Society of the United States. A terribly corrupt organization who's goal is to remove our rights to own, breed and consume our own property-our animals!
@ Vegetarian – "Being a vegetarian and mostly vegan I'm not fat and sluggish so that works out pretty well"
Since when does eating meat make a person fat and sluggish. Sure obesity has nothing to do with people stuffing their faces with oreos, chips, fries, pastries, ice cream... I'm sure meat has very little to do with people being fat.
I'd rather have my nieces and nephews know that their meat had a life before it ended up on the plate. This will show them to respect all living things, and teach them to respect the earth as well. Food (meat and veggies) need people to propagate, we need to respect that. Food doesn't come from a factory, wrapped in plastic.
While I think some of these comments are getting away from the original intent of this article (mine included), bottom line is this: We simply can not feed the world without animals and animals byproducts. It is literally impossible. Would these hippies who are going on about animal cruelty prefer that half of the world die of starvation, in order to save the lives of soul-less animals? These are probably the same hippies who voted against genetically engineering rice that contained more vitamins and minerals for 3rd world countries for the simple fact that they fear the word GMO. So please, someone tell me... if we can't eat meat, eggs, milk, or enhance the plants that we do have, how will the world survive??
Given many of the statements from people in PETA, along with other organizations like that (including the many eco-terrorist organizations out there), they would LOVE if half (or more) of the human population died out. Some are even advocating racial suicide.
My response is: You first.
Whoa there Annoyed. Let's leave that GMO debate for another day.
I didn't even need to read the article. Wow, what a concept! Everyone should just buy their groceries at the supermarket and pretend that no animal died to put that steak under the glass. I grew up on a farm and I believe that raising animals and understanding the purpose that they are there for is important. I also learned as a hunter on the farm that you don't just indiscriminately kill animals. If you kill it you eat it, otherwise you just injoy the beauty of the creature that God created. No, I don't care to hear from you veggie eaters. God put us in charge of the animals to use as we wlike and to care for .... there is a balance to be maintained.
I was in 4-H between the ages of 9 and 11 years old. I raised three lambs. Each year, I became very attached to the animal I raised...feeding it, walking it, cleaning up after it. In my mind, it was my pet. On the last night of the county fair, all of us 4-H kids took our lambs to a giant pen, and let them loose. They stayed in the pen for a couple hours before being loaded en masse into the truck that would take them to slaughterhouse. MANY of kids were crying their eyes out over it. It was definitely the most painful night of the year for me. I can still remember it vividly. But yet, the next year, I would get another lamb, because I remembered the joy I got from interacting with it. Finally, after the third lamb had come and gone, it clicked in my mind that this was wrong. How could I love that animal and then send it off to be killed, just so some already overfed American could have another lamb chop? It did not make logical sense to me to love animals and then eat them. So I became a vegetarian shortly after that. My younger sister had the same experience, and she's a vegetarian as well. That was 20 years ago, and I have not eaten meat since then.
I'm not sure if 4-H "desensitizes" kids to killing–in my case it sensitized me and made me wake up. I think it has more to do with the level of intelligence and empathy a child (or adult, really) already has to determine if they can make the connection between the food on their plate and the animal they loved. Of course, some people can never make that connection. You'll see these mental deficits not only in the way people treat animals but also other humans. That lack of empathy is sad. And still some choose not to think through the implications of their actions because they're lazy and it would be an "inconvenience" to change their habits.
So you are saying that 4H members can't interact with other Humans properly ? Lets not stretch it here.
so you are saying that myself who takes VERY well care of her animals, or my brother, or my daughter will or have abused or neglected animals and are mean to other humans, because we bought, raised, sold, repeat for 11 yrs. My daughter who is in her 3rd yr of 4h is taking goats, watches those goats go on the trailer, tells them to have a nice ride, and go feed someone, will grow up to be rude and abusive to animals. HA HA HA HA HA let me pick myself up off the floor first. GET A LIFE.
I remember when my father killed my rabbits for food. I was about 10 years old and I did cry to know they were killed. I matured a bit that day but it was not in a bad way. I never had a desire to be a hunter, but I know the difference between a good and bad kill. We are omnivores and I wonder what these animal rights folk are thinking. They must not have ever felt the real burn of hunger..
Most of America is rural. 4H teaches kids to live well, survive, and humanely provide food for those that are too emotionally sheltered or frail to provide it on their own.
I was in 4-H as a boy and it was a great program. Although I didn't raise animals, some of other kids in our club did, as well as many of my relatives who grew up on farms. The kids who did raise animals learned a lot about how to care for animals in a humane way. You're simply not going to raise a prize winning animal if you abuse it.
And I'm always puzzled by all the people who equate vegetarians with liberals. I was also a fairly strict vegetarian for several years, but during those years, I was a straight ticket voting Republican.
Choosing to be a vegetarian vs being an animal rights activist and trying to forcefully stop other people from eating meat are two entirely different things.
This website makes me laugh: so many idealists that know what's best for everyone else. Let people be free and make their own decisions. Yes, we see how compassionate you are for the cows–now please allow us to make up our own minds.
people who refuse to eat meat for "ethical" reasons are a tiny minority of weirdos. Why do we have to read stuff from their point of view.
Where are the stories from the point of view of people who think the world is flat or man should not fly or that skin color has some moral value
This article is so dumb, there is nothing wrong with having children involved in the process of the meat market. It's better that children understand that their meat was a life so they better respect the animal's sacrifice rather than having them eat meat without thinking twice about where it came from.
What a stupid claim. I bet 4-H kids are guilty of a lot less homicides than thugs from the ghettos. Where do they learn their killing from?
It amazes me how many people will attack a way of life, or organization. I will try to make my point without doing so. I believe that every human has the right to choose what they do or don’t believe. However, that being said, it does upset me when someone attacks my way of life. I am disappointed to see that as adults expressing opinions, several have been unable to do so without name calling and brutal attacks to personal thoughts. I was in 4-H for several years. While a 4-H member, I learned to be a productive member of society, to contribute to my community and to respect the livelihood of others. I did raise market beef and showed horses. I understood from a young age that my calves were someday going to end up on someone’s plate. For that reason, they received excellent care. After all, this was our food supply. I do not feel like I am desensitized by this reality at all. I have a great respect for life and death. I still raise cattle to supply the meat eating individuals of our world with a wholesome food product. If you have never sat on a horse in a blinding snow storm to make sure that your herd will be okay, then you do not have any right to tell me that I do not care for my animals. The weather they endure, I endure. They are raised for food. That is a fact. It is important to me that these animals still get proper care and handling until they are harvested. That is why I am intimately involved in the industry. Thank you, 4-H, for helping me to learn the valuable lesson of being a good steward of land and life. I think that a lot more kids could stand to learn the lessons that I did.
Well said......hats off to you.
Great comment!
Excellent points KCRanchGirl.
Born and raised in the country, growing up we learned these skills without the 4-H program. I am assuming all the people that are complaing about this program, and the slaughering of animals are vegitarians. I am also assuming that they do not use any animal products, such as leather shoes, leather couches, leather car seats etc.. If more people actually had to raise their own food, and kill their own animals for food....they would have much more respect from where our food comes from and this country wouldn't have such an issue with weight control. Todays youth has no idea where their food comes from, other than a fastfood restaraunt or grocery store.
4-H isnt the problem, parenting is the problem. It is ashame that we take a great program like 4-H and say 4-H is what is the problem; I bet that these kids in 4-H will turn out to be a much better person than the majority of the people who's parents keep them in a bubble. Life and death is a part of living... and by the way, 4-H is much more than just animals!
I am very much a carnivore, omnivore actually, as our bodies are designed to be, and i have no problem with the food chain. I do, however, have a serious problem with the way our food animals are treated before they are slaughtered. there are humane ways to treat cattle, pigs, and chickens that makes them healthier and, in turn, makes us healthier. people do need to stop thinking of and treating animals as things. they are beings with a right to a decent life. but everything, including some plants, kills to eat. that is the nature of life on this planet. children should be tought to respect animals and thank them for what they give us. and above all, they should be tought not to kill for fun or sport. nothing sickens me more than seeing a kid posing proudly with his first buck! unless you cannot afford to go to the market and buy meat, you are killing for fun, which is a true abomination.
horrible that an animal might be shot to death when it should be eaten alive or starve as God intended
you are kidding right? I ake PRIDE in my hunting. ONE SHOT. I took my 11 yr old daughter hutning this past yr, after she passed her hunters safety. SHe TOOK ONE shot, helped gut the deer out,a nd then PROUDLY got her picture taken beside that deer. So did myself when i took my first buck.,
To say that if you can't afford to go and buy your meat, is STUPID. Guess what its MORE expensive to buy a hunting LIC. then a deer tag, then a gun, then the shells, to go out and hunt for that deer. Your meat costs what 5 bucks for a pound or so. ONE deer will feed my family for 3 months and it only costs me the tag and the lic to go out and hunt it.
Liz – you should take a Hunter's Safety class. Being from the suburbs, I didn't understand hunting and was pretty much against it. But taking the class I learned that many animals would die slow, agonizing deaths through the winter becausde of the lack of available food sources. In order to keep herd sizes to a number that the land can actually sustain, hunting tags are issued. There are rules on what type of animal can be taken... (not Bambi or his mother). Because I now live in a rural area, many of my friends hunt to sustain their families. Get some knowledge and then you'll have an informed opinion.
This is sad. Very much like the article I read a while back – some urban children were asked where milk came from, and they replied, "The store."
For all of you who are SO concerned about these poor, desensitized children: Do you personally mourn the many animals who have died to support your lifestyle? Even you "vegans" are indirectly responsible for the loss of thousands of animal lives.
Do you drive a car? Look up mining, manufacturing, average roadkill (right down to those bugs that get squashed on your windshield, they're alive too). If you don't use a car, do you use mass transportation? Heck, even a bicycle has caused many animal deaths. If you've ever used any sort of mechanical transportation, YOU are also responsible for those deaths.
Do you own a home? Or live in a home? Or an apartment? Look up manufacturing, home building, etc. Many animals died so that YOU can live in comfort. And I won't even go into the furniture and other accouterments of your daily life. Thousands more animals dead, for you.
You obviously use a computer, and the internet. There's more animals dead. Look up how they make computers, where they get the materials from, what they do to animals in laying down internet lines and what they use to keep animals from chewing on those lines.
I could go on and on – NOBODY is innocent of animal deaths and suffering. Nobody. It is part of the natural world. Even out in nature – you think animals don't kill each other?
We cannot separate ourselves from nature. But sobbing crocodile tears over the death of some food animals while blithely ignoring your own responsibility is PATHETIC.
Well put!
No one FORCES any 4-H kids to take an animal project where the animal is slaughtered. 4-H kids (and they have to be 8 or 9 to take any type of project at all) have their choice of a huge selection of 4-H projects in a wide variety of topics. I know kids who take market animals (knowing they will be slaughtered),I know kids who take show animals (knowing they will not be slaughtered), and I know kids who take projects that have nothing to do with farm animals.
And even before become 4-H members, I taught my kids that meat is from an animal. A hamburger was a cow, bacon was a pig, and I didn't to it to desensitize my kids and make them future mass murderers. I did it so they know the truth of where their food comes from – and that is not Walmart.
Every year we give away one 1200 pound fat calf, have it processed by a processor who is USDA inspected and donates his time and we give all the meat to the Food Bank.....that is what I learned in 4-H....how to give back to the community.
I guess I was taught wrong.....
You were taught well. All kids ought to know where their food comes from. Farmers are the very foundation of our entire food supply. Without them, most people on this planet would starve because they litterally don't know how to feed themselves.
According to the FAO 925 million people dont have enough food to eat right now. The World Health Organization says that starvation is still the single "gravest threat to the world's public health". NOT IN AMERICA THOUGH, so we have these fools trying to tell us we shouldn't teach our kids that killing cows is ok.... Almost a billion people starving to death at your feet and your of the opinion we should stop killing animals for food??? I do consider myself a liberal on most issues, but this is just ridiculous, I'm shocked theres even a "discussion" about it.
I find it interesting how the photo depicted at the top shows a dairy cow. One that is not normally used to produce milk and not slaughtered for meat consumption.
Thanks to those who have posted positively in favor of 4-H.
The 4-H motto is: To Make the Best Better.
I believe that it has been shown here by those who have commented.
The 4-H Slogan is: Learning by Doing
I hope that those 4-Hers who read this, will turn this into a learning opportunity. All of us can learn from each other, and hopefully we can appreciate our differences of opinions and get past the blame and judgement. This comment board is a great example of how important education is on both sides of the points being discussed. I would love to have a formal debate about this with the commenter in person.
How utterly stupid. 4-H is about teaching young farmers of the future. If you raise animals for food you have to realize they're going to be killed and be okay with that. I grew up on a farm and helped slaughter pigs, chickens, sheep, etc. 100 years ago the majority of families in America were home farmers. We've turned into a nation of namby pamby sissies that can't hack it. How pathetic.
Humans evolved intelligence by HUNTING. It doesn't take any brains to sneak up on a leaf. Stop all this whining about eating meat and go get yourself a big steak. What a bunch of pathetic, loser, sissyfied, laimo wussies.
Another dumbing down of the populace with such crap articles. Honestly, WTF are you media whores trying to prove with your nonsensical BS writing????? Don't eat meat? FINE! Don't want to slaughter? FINE! Take care of yourself, and don't forget to see how the government is eating YOU.
It is tough being at the top of the food chain. Get over it and quit crying.
Sometimes I feel I've been asleep for 30 years, and when I woke up, the world got stupider. If that's a word. I grew up in the country and people knew where meat came from. These days kids just don't know. It's kinda scary. Really.
Kansas Cowgirl,
Thank you for your opinion, but that's your reality, not mine. And truly, 4-H has NOTHING to do with the reality of how animals are raised and slaughtered today. But I'm glad to hear that 4-H does teach responsibility and that the organization has some good points too.
Agm,
Not everyone objects to slaughter, but to the animals' lives before and during slaughter. Today's farming - the kind that puts meat in the fridge at the grocer - has nothing to do with the circle of life. It's a total negation of it. See post from Former Meat Eater for a better explanation.
And I'm not saying anyone should be a vegan or vegetarian. Just please educate yourself about how we now farm meat.
4H isn't the problem. The real issue here is that the entire country is totally removed from the mutilation and abuse that occurs every day in factory farms. At the very least we should hold our position at the top of the food chain with some level of morality and/or respect for the life of the animals which sustain us!
If the moral argument doesn't persuade perhaps the importance of your health will? Animal husbandry has turned into a giant science project with more hormones and antibiotics being pumped into your food every single day. Just don't complain when you are dying of cancer and bemoaning the fact that you never once smoked a single cigarette. I will be around to remind you of all the chemicals and poison you consumed while selfishly downing filet mignon or scarfing "chicken" nuggets. Bottom line is that if animals are raised humanely and in suitable environments/space for their "happiness" the level of hormone and antibiotic would not be necessary; but raising animals the right way for food just wouldn't be profitable now would it? Wake up America. you are all sheep led by big industry. Use your brains and stop believing the crap that big meat companies are shoveling on top of you. I for one gave up meat 6 years ago not b/c I believe the raising of animals for food is wrong but b/c the way we allow it be carried out is VERY wrong.
I raised sheep, then hogs for 4-H for 8 years (all sold at auction) along with all 5 of my brothers. I learned commitment to responsibility even when it's inconvenient like cleaning up after my hogs/sheep, like feeding them when it was raining, snowing, and freezing, like fixing their water-lines even when I had other things I wanted to do, like having to be home on time to feed them no matter how cool an event was happening. I think being obligated to their care was good training for parenting frankly. I also learned how to be comfortable working in front of an audience performing in showmanship and market class at fair, I took my first trip away from home with 4-H to state fair, stayed in my first dormitory, learned to present material to my fellow 4-Hers and made friends I otherwise would not have. I also earned a 4 year scholarship that helped pay for my college education. I also learned that when you send a thank you letter for that scholarship check, the scholarship amount increases each year. I made money selling my animals and started my first savings account with with funds from selling a sheep at auction, I still remember it was making 5%, sure wish I'd have kept that account now! I learned to manage my money wisely and choose my investments. I learned the limit of my dollar. I learned to calculate the amount of food my animals required, purchase it, and later learned to fill out a tax form with deductions for expenses like feed, equipment, travel to shows, etc. My what a terrible organization they were indeed! I learned to love and appreciate animals, and the value of caring for them rightly not only from 4-H but my family and my community. My wife and I take excellent, loving care of our 2 pets. I actually offered to sell my motorcycle last year when my dog was sick and we thought she might need surgery. Thankfully she didn't
That said, what I didn't learn ANYWHERE is that animals are HUMANS and that killing an animal is the same as murder, or that eating an animal is a crime. I didn't learn that it's okay to take a post-modern trend life-style and assume that the other 99.9999% of all humans in history and the other 98% of people currently inhabiting the planet were all desperately mistaken and that somehow this new tiny minority who just appeared on the scene suddenly have the 'corner market' on morality and ethics for all time. What an indulgent thought! I believe in heaven, hell, sin, and eating animals. God killed the first animal to make clothes, I'll take my cue from Him, not some late-stage self-indulgent, arrogant know-it-all's screaming loud and making life difficult for average people without cause. No I don't think that ALL treatment of animals produced for food is ethical (or safe) for human consumption, no I dont "enjoy" the killing of animals, yes I think it's wasteful to kill an animal JUST for it's hide. Yes, I hunt for my own food and grew up on healthy, range fed, game meat. Yes, I know that every time I kill a deer, I'm preventing a needless car accident that could take not only a deer's life, but human lives as well. Every time I drive by a dead deer on the side of the road I think ... some careless person trying to save animals restricted the amount of hunting licenses again. I drove by 10-15 of those in the last 2 months. (That's raising my insurance rates, and yours by the way)! I stopped recently for an 70yr old lady who I watched hit a deer on Rt 80 going 70 miles an hour. The deer cartwheeled 45 feet in the air and landed on the side of the road bleating and bleeding out with broken mangled legs as it breathed its last. The woman had air-bag deployment and totaled her car. Thankfully she was otherwise okay. Guess that was another "victory" for people who think the idea of "population control" in a state where all the natural predators were killed off ages are is "stupid" and where the responsible humane killing of animals for food is "wrong" . I'm pretty sure this is the same people who said it was "natural" to let the Yellowstone fires burn in 88 and watched it go until the fires were so huge they jumped 1/2 mile fire-breaks. (They still had people out there fighting it with pick-axes and shovels for MONTHS because God forbid they tear up a little ground with a bulldozer.) Good think that 'natural fire' sterilized 1000's of acres that wont grow anything for centuries. Yeah...there's really a new corner market on intelligence that's finally graced our planet. As for me, I think my local park looks nicer when we tend to it by cutting out the parts that don't belong and properly maintaining the parts that do. I also think that donating game meat to the local shelter that was processed in a clean packing plant will save my friend a car accident, will feed some people who can't afford healthy meat themselves, and will ensure that my deer died with a human single shot, not dangling through the shattered windshield of someones Jeep Cherokee. My .02, worth all the paper it's printed on.
Nicely written Moto.
Thanks.
The real problem is the evolving ignorance of people in the basic facts of sustenance and survival. As someone who was raised on a small Midwest farm, I had the honor of learning firsthand the value of the earth and every life. And I learned firsthand how to kill a chicken and dress it for cooking. I had the honor of having $H as part of my growth and education. We raised our own hogs and cattle for slaughter. Trust me, I have an understanding and respect for life, all life, that no blindly liberal vegan could or will ever have. I am appalled that we are raising generations that have no idea of where the food that sustains them comes from.
To "Kathy" who said these "poor animals are raised as pets" before being sent to the slaughterhouse–they are raised as livestock, they are not household pets. That doesn't mean that there is no emotional attachment–of course there is! But it also teaching children to be responsible and work hard, which they do when they get up every morning to feed the animal before school, and clean, feed, and water the pen after school.
I was in 4-H for many years after moving from Los Angeles as a child, and I did raise a pig one year, and was devastated when I auctioned it off and sent it to slaughter–so devastated that I never raised one again. However, these animals have a good life being raised by a 4-H-er and would otherwise have lived the course of its life on a large factory farm, meeting the same end.
Those who have never participated in 4-H really shouldn't comment on what it does or does not do to kids and should realize that these animals would be feed animals whether raised by a 4-H-her or not.
4-H is an amazing program! I was a 10 year member and have used the skills gained through 4-H to start my own bakery decorating cakes and making yummy desserts. I also showed hogs and yes, sold them to market after the fair. It's all part of the circle of life.
There is a dearth of understanding about agriculture and the economics of eating in this country. The first clue in this article is a photo of dairy cattle used in an article about meat production. Additionally, why do we have to suppose that the method used to kill meat animals is less humane than natural death? Most wild animals die from predation, starvation due to tooth loss, disease, or injury. In America, our livestock are rendered unconscious and allowed to bleed out before awakening. It appears some people have been desensitized to reason.
4-H desensitizes children? I can't help but laugh. It is quite hilarious that one of the best student organizations is now facing such ridiculous claims. Would you rather lead every child to believe their food source actually comes from just a grocery store. Ask a child where his/her food comes from and 80% of them couldn't even explain on the simplest of levels where that hamburger came from. Most responses...."Food Lion, Harris Teeter, Whole Foods, Fresh Market..." The other 20% are found within the families that put food on each and every one of YOUR tables and clothes on your back, that made themselves smarter by real world experiences within organizations like 4H and the National FFA Organization(which by the way is the LARGEST STUDENT lead organization in the world). Organizations that teach TRUTH, HARD WORK, and DESIRE TO HELP YOUR FELLOW MAN.
I served in many leadership roles within the National FFA Organization and cherished every single moment I was able to portray truth and honestly to children across North Carolina. Many may think these groups are all about tractors and hogs...many of those people have never divulged into the real purpose of the organizations. To give our youth an honest and beneficial education with hands on learning and development of personal success. I can speak for hundreds, if not thousands, of young people who have in my presence praised that organizations like this were a MAJOR factor in their successes. I know in my life college was out of my reach, not academically, but financially. My family was as poor as they come. Teachers, supporters, leaders in these organizations paved the way for me to further my education. Most of which never even glanced at my face, but went to bat for me...and would do it for any other young person in the same situation. I praise the work these groups do for our young people and will continue to support them 100%.
“All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.” – - -Galileo Galilei
being in 4-H is like being a farmer or pet owner, you actually appreciate life more and understand where our food comes from. 4-H provides an education that McDonald's and other fast food chains dont: that we need to appreciate the food we eat.
Where do people think meat comes from? Desensitize? Doesn't the media, movies, video games, rap music, and all that other bullcrap already do that? Does America want our children to be wimps, and cowards in the eyes of the world? Who ever wrote this article is a spineless wimp trying to goad people into becoming one just like them. What happens if the world economy fails and all of a sudden there is no food at Walmart? Are you going to be too pussified to go hunt meat for your own family? Grow up, and wake up America.
Most members of our society already are. We have bleeding hearts to thank for that.
Was never a part of 4-H, but I did see them at every county fair and went over to pet the animals. They seemed content and friendly as if they weren't being abused.
I think that its all okay if you make it clear to the kids from the beginning that these animals will be slaughtered at some point. Its not cruel that we eat meat, but that we should keep them in convenient comfort from birth till their untimely demise. I just find that 4-H is really for kids who will probably have a career in livestock or for kids who live in close proximity to livestock. Livestock are commodities, but at the same time, living conscious animals. The level of intelligence is irrelevent once the threshold of being able to suffer is crossed. The arguments of eating meat in general being cruel has no place here. What is of concern is whether they aren't making it clear why these animals are even being cared for for the sake of eating, and the practices and treatment from birth till slaughter.
Every vegan I know is a complete retard. And a liberal, though that is redundant.
Give me a break, you obviously didn't take the time to talk to any kids that have been in 4-H for years and love it ! I was a 10 year member of 4-H and so were both of my sisters. Now my niece and nephews are in 4-H and showing hogs, calves and rabbits. I am sure their children will continue the tradition. To say that you don't get an emotional attachment to the animals is a bunch of crap. You do but as a farm kid you realize that this is how Americans are fed along with the grain that the farmers harvest. 4-H is not about desensitizing kids about animal killing. It is about responsibliity for your projects, community involvement and fond lifetime memories. Before you decide to write about something you need to educate yourself.
I am amazed CNN would even reference a link to this article (yeah right)...... :)
Getting ready to fire up the grill....can't decide on Rib Eyes or thick cut Pork Chops? Decisions, decisions......
I say go for the bacon wrapped steak. Or bacon wrapped chops are good too. bacon wrapped anything.
i don't read comments, but they're a lot of fun to write!
Dear God, we really are becoming the biggest pansies on the face of the planet.
If you are looking to what desensitizes children to killing and the suffering of livestock animals, it would more likely be the disassociation between the food on the plate or in the store and the animals from which it comes common in the majority in the US population because they did NOT participate in something like 4-H and never had any contact with animals we typically use for food. The people I participated in 4-H with had a greater respect for animals.. and the hard work and resources that go into producing food in general... than most of the urban raised people I know.
To comment on why some kids cry at animal auctions as stated in your article, it is because of the attachment that has been made during the course of the animal project. When the kids spend time everyday with their animal project, of course they are going to get attached. My daughter was very attached to her pigs but that did not mean they were not going to be slaughtered at some point and time. That is the tourble with some people, they think the natural circle of life doesn't include slaughter but those same people sure do like to eat!
You know some people just have too much time on their hands and minds. Information gathering before commenting is often a good action for all of us. These animals do need to be treated humanely and it does not "desensitize" any 4-H member to raise animals and care for them. It does however, equip them for reality in life. Not that something "has" to die but that we have responsibilities to ourselves and our families. Actually, these kids learn more about giving back and being a responsible community member than just about any other organization other than Scouting. I was raised on a farm and rode stick horses and later real horses and yes, I packed iron on my hip. If I had ever done that in any fashion other than a toy to play with my father would have dealt with me properly. I did not grow up in violence and therefore I am not violent. Like the rest of you I do have strong opinions about some things. America is about us all having that right.
This article is ridiculous. I grew up on a farm and ranch, appreciating both animals (meat) and vegetables. In addition, I was in 4-H where I learned how to care for animals, sew, and bake. Of all the things that I learned in 4-H the most important thing was compassion for the world and having appreciation for all things. With the knowledge that I gained from 4-H I understand that everything has its place in the world.
Secondly! I absolutely cannot stand people crying for animal rights and pointing fingers telling others that eat meat they are insensitive when they have never been to a ranch or a farm or anything close to it. Personally I am disappointed that this article even made it to the light of day.
4H isn't the problem. The real issue here is that the entire country is totally removed from the mutilation and abuse that occurs every day in factory farms. At the very least we should hold our position at the top of the food chain with some level of morality and/or respect for the life of the animals which sustain us!
If the moral argument doesn't persuade perhaps the importance of your health will? Animal husbandry has turned into a giant science project with more hormones and antibiotics being pumped into your food every single day. Just don't complain when you are dying of cancer and bemoaning the fact that you never once smoked a single cigarette. I will be around to remind you of all the chemicals and poison you consumed while selfishly downing filet mignon or scarfing "chicken" nuggets. Botom line is that if animals are raised humanely and in suitable environments/space for thier "happiness" the level of hormone and antibiotic would not be neccessary; but raising animals the right way for food just wouldn't be profitable now would it? Wake up America. you are all sheep led by big industry. Use your brains and stop believeing the crap that big meat companies are shoveling on top of you. I for one gave up meat 6 years ago not b/c I believe the raising of animals for food is wrong but b/c the way we allow it be carried out is VERY wrong
Ummm... It teaches responsibility and how to care for another living being. The world is truly coming to an end. And not fast enough for me.
What a bunch of nonsense.
Ever scrape the dead bugs off of a vegan's windshield? They hem and haw and deny that it is the same thing they're complaining about here.
This article is written in the same way conspiracy articles are written – to attempt to sway people into believing someone else's contorted perspective on life. That's right, 4-H is breeding cold blooded killers. What a load of BS.
If anything, it's important for all people to learn where their meat comes from. It's up to the individual to determine if this is acceptable or not. If you kill your own meat, you develop more respect for it, that's for sure.
Sorry, MistiBean, I think sensitivity in a child is a good thing, LOL! It's a characteristic that can be equated with strength, not wimpiness. Kermit, sorry, dude, or girl, I'm not a hippy, just someone who's concerned about our society's treatment of animals. Mark, if 4-H also includes information about industrial farming (chickens crammed in tiny crates, brooding sows who don't even have enough room to turn over), I'd feel better about it. Unfortunately, we don't live in the idealized world of smaller farming, where animals can be raised and slaughtered with kindness/dignity. A child raising their own calf isn't getting the true picture of how it works in agri-business today. Again, not talking about smaller farms, but big farm business, which is where most people buy their beef, so to speak. The treatment of animals in those types of so-called "farms" is sickening.
This article has so many points wrong in it (as do many commenters). First off, it doesn't desensitize the killing of animals for food, which really wouldn't be all that bad of an idea anyway. Children have partaken in the killing of animals for food for centuries and centuries. How else will the family butcher the meat it needs for food? The elder children were the ones who helped.
Secondly, not all these animals are to be killed. The sheep will often be bought for their wool, which they will produce for many years. The goats and cows are often bought for their milk. A good bull can bring about calves at a local farm. Chickens, ducks, and geese bring eggs and more chickens, ducks, and geese. They also raise kittens and puppies to be farm animals (barn cats and herding dogs) or pets, as well as pocket pets. The point is to teach children how to raise animals properly, not desensitize them.
I don't get it. Killing animals for food seems fine to me.
Ever notice PETA types like to throw fake blood on society ladies wearing fur, but never on bikers wearing leather. As for the anti-4Hers; ignore them. It's a waste of time arguing with twits.
i think we are all missing the point here. it is not a question of whether or not the 4H is going to desensitize children to "killilng" but more of an appreciation they can gain of just how much effort and labor goes into the process of raising the food that feeds America's population. The animals that they encounter and deal with are not taken from them in some sort of dramatic fashion and run straight to the slaughter house. I would know, i was in 4H. The animal(s) that you are placed in care of are used as learning tools for the agriculture industry. They are NOT stolen or taken from the children, with the child forced to participate or watch. STOP OVER REACTING. Educate yourself first, do your own research and avoid catch phrases such as "Does 4-H desensitize kids to killing?" What happens is, you hit the insanity button without knowing what you are talking about, thank you "Thepoint", for proving MY point. FYI, tigers dont cook meat because they lack the opposable thumb(s) needed to properly use propane grills. Its also why we are way, way ahead in the evolutionary race, because, well... we won. And being a student of biology, and agriculture, holding degrees in both from Ohio State, along with many years of experience on a farm, I can most certaintly tell you that livestock, that would be cows, pigs, chickens etc, are in no way, shape or form "just as responsive" as cats and dogs. You need to research why that is, a hint... they have been bred differently and cultured differenlty by humans for quite some time. My guess is that you yourself have never actually participated in the 4H or any similar community envolvement. Try next time to ask and learn before you pass judgement on something you are not connected to. Education is key to successful, well rounded people, something gained from 4H by way of teamwork and local community envolvement, not angry posts regarding the emotional trauma sustained by children. Besides, how do you know its not fun for the animals either, my pet pig told me he was the best tasting BLT ever... HA!
Our ancestors have raised and slaughtered livestock for thousands of years. If our kids are going to eat meat, then how can it be bad for them to understand everything that goes into the process of raising and ethically slaughtering a healthy animal? When we compare that to feed lots and other corporate sources from which we typically get our meat, it seems to me like a healthy choice. Don't eat what you aren't willing to participate in yourself. Eating meat doesn't have to mean animal cruelty. We are omnivores, people. That means we evolved to eat meat along with our fruits, veggies, and grains.
Pretty sure the kids at Columbine or the kid at Virgina Tech weren't "farm kids" raised through the 4-H program.
I went to my first and last 4-H meeting at someone's home when I was about 8 years old. Me and my parents thought it was going to be like a girl scout type of thing. I thought I was going over there to make new friends and do crafts. Less than 10 minutes after being there I was told about how this particular club raises and breeds rabbits. I thought it was pretty cool, since I loved animals...We were then asked to go into the kitchen, when to my horror, I also learned that they raised these rabbits for food. I will never get that vision out of my head, as the poor rabbits were being prepared for dinner. I left immediately. All these years I thought I was at a "bad" 4-H club meeting...now I see I was at a normal 4-H meeting...How Awful !
So, what are we supposed to do for food? My family hunts deer, rabbits, squirrels, grouse, and other animals so we can survive the winter. The animals can't be released into the wild, as they're domesticated.
Some of these comments are truly ridiculous. I was in 4-H and raised sheep. The sheep I got would have been feed sheep whether I raised them or not. I was taught to treat the animal humanely and compassionately. Did I cry when they were auctioned, of course, but I also learned that I gave them a good life before they were sold for meat (again something that would have occurred either way). I am a very socially conscience and empathetic person, not cold and heartless like people here are trying to imply. By the way, for all of you armchair activists, please give me the address of your farm animal sanctuary so I can post it at the local 4-H meeting!
4-H is a great youth organization that teaches leadership, community service and various life skills through a range of projects. 4-H members do learn about healthy nutrition and some learn where food comes from and how lucky we are to have quality and abundant food in American thanks to our production agriculture industry. The one thing 4-H does promote is family time. 4-H has trained many leaders in many industries. I am very disspointed that CNN would have such a bias story. You have just made yourself like Fox News by this type of information (incomplete). We need more organizations like 4-H that teaches kids about agriculture because it is our ability to produce food that keeps this nation going and strong and too many kids in the cities think the food comes from the back of the grocery stores because that is what their parents have taught them because the parents don't know either! Shame on you for blasting a quality program such as 4-H.
If more people had been up to their elbows in a warm carcass, there would be less weirdness about death in America. Everything dies. One of the finest gifts you can give an animal is a good death, which does not include letting it die of old age. 4-H does not desensitize kids, it teaches them wisdom, which is sadly lacking in so many adults.
How many kids in 4-H clubs are going around killing others? How many kids from inner cities, slums, etc with no 4-H clubs? I suggest there is not quite as much of a correlation as they may think! I couldn't care less about 4-H clubs and have been in large cities all my life also.
I raised 2 calves, as well as chickens, and sheep with the 4-H in Georgia. And I can tell you from personal experience that you are not desensitized one bit. If anything, you come to have a much deeper understanding and respect for all life – even the smallest. You all but live and breath with these beautiful animals as you come to not only respect them, but work hard day in and day out to understand and work with them.
Is there a practical side to the system – yes. But too many young kids have no attatchment to food. They have no idea what goes into their meat, nor any connection what so ever with the life each animal had. If anything, I came out of 4-H with a deeper understanding of life and what I put into my body.
If you don't like the killing of animals then in addition to not eating meat you should also not use: Explosive, Chewing Gum
Make-Up
Paints
Saddle Soap
Solvents
Industrial Oil & Lubricants
OLEO Margarine
Shoe Creme
Ceramics
Hand Soap
Medicines
Creams & Lotions
Dish Soap
Mink oil
Antifreeze
Tallow for Tanning
OLEO Shortening
Chemicals
Rubber Products
Crayons
Insecticide
Floor Wax
Cosmetics
Paraffin
Herbicides
Shaving Cream
Biodegradable Detergents
Protein Dog Food
Protein Hair Conditioner & Shampoo
Tires
Canoles
Dog Food
Chicken Feed
Sausage Casings
Instrument Strings
Surgical sutures
Tennis Racquet Strings
Sports Equipment
Clothing
Saddles
Insulation
Hide Glue
Textiles
Paint & Plaster Binder
Asphalt Binder
Luggage
Rug Pads
Footwear
Artist's Brushes
Ointment Base
Upholstery
Felt
Rouge Base
Methane Gas
Urea Fertilizer
Combs & Toothbrushes
Collagen Cold Cream
Bone Meal Fertilizer
Dog Biscuits
Pet Food Ingredients
Buttons
Piano Keys
Cellophane Wrap
Cellophane Tape
Bandage Strips
Emery Boards & Cloth
Neatsfoot Oil
Marshmallow
Glycerine
Bone Charcoal Pencils
Ice Cream
Bone China
Abrasives
Steel Ball bearings
Phonograph Records
Gelatin Desserts
Crochet Needles
Adhesives
Dice
Syringes, Adhesive Tape
Shampoo & Conditioner
Collagen & Bone for Plastic Surgery
Rose Food
Wallpaper & Wall Paper Paste
Photographic Film
Gelatin Capsules
beacuse they all have ingredients from cows. You're ignorance is mind blowing!
And you are proud of this because????????
Like the Bible says, God gave man dominion over the beast of the earth and fowls of the air and isn't it great that they can be used for so many things? Good stewardship of course but the animals are serving their intended purpose and blessing the lives of MAN.
This whole argument that we should hunt our own food if we want to eat meat is outlandish. I could make the same argument for all services. Go generate your own electricity. Clean your own water. Empty your own septic tank. What difference does it make who shoots the cow in the head? The reason so many of us would have a hard time killing a cow today is simply because we haven't done so for centuries. It's been done for us for so long, that we've lost the "stomach" to kill our own food, thanks to major beef manufacturers who've been doing it for us. If you have issues with the MANNER in which beef is currently raised by major producers, that's a different argument. But providing food to people, whether it's beef, vegetables or otherwise, is a service like any other.
If PETA crusaders weren't such puritans and aimed for more reasonable reforms, we would have cleaned up the industry long ago. Americans would get behind a movement to treat our food better if it wasn't accompanied by all the hyperbole and accusations.
When animal rights reformers are more interested in actual reform than feeling rightious and superior, things will change.
Really! Your way of thinking is going to turn these kids into whimpy, sensitive kids that wont be able to deal with lifes challenges in the future! Disgraceful!
I remember growing up as a child in NW ****** during the mid '50s. We raised EVERYTHING we ate. When papa went to the store, he would buy things such as black pepper, double colas (where has THAT drink gone?), sugar salt, etc. We literally raised everything else. We had chickens, cows, pigs, and some goats. Papa had a "smoke" house where we salted down a lot of pork; he also rubbed Sorghum syrup (which we also produced) and honey on the hams.
He raised winter wheat (sold most of it, but had enough ground into flour to last a long time); he raised corn (used to feed the stock (and. . . to make whiskey!)