 5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe. Uh - what exactly is a 4-H, you say? Well, we're glad you asked. 4-H Clubs - an acronym for "head, heart, hands and health" - were originally set up by the United States Department of Agriculture to train the rural youth of America in hands-on skills like agriculture and raising animals. Essentially, the goal was to make public school education more connected to the country life, while fostering a sense of community and personal responsibility. The programs have since expanded to more urbanized areas and focused in on overall nutrition and well-being, but a number of clubs still get their hands dirty by helping raise and sell livestock to the likes of locally-driven chefs like Kelly Liken. Kelly Liken is the executive chef and owner of Restaurant Kelly Liken in Vail, Colorado; she was also a contestant on "Top Chef" Season 7. Five Reasons to Buy from Your Local 4-H: Kelly Liken When you buy a whole animal you have a responsibility to it, to use as much of it as you can. This is a responsibility that we do not take lightly." 2. 4-H animals are some of the best quality in the nation 3. 4-H supports the education of local children Most importantly, all the money raised by the sale goes into the child’s individual education fund." 4. Knowing where your food comes from is not only very important but it teaches a life-long lesson to children, while shaping their future decisions with regards to food, cooking, and nutrition Removing the transportation of animals along with the multi-person handling out of the equation allows for a more streamlined simple choice." 5. It’s fun! Listening to the auctioneer and seeing how excited the children get when their animal is purchased is an incredibly fulfilling experience." Find your local 4-H, and share your thoughts on 4-H clubs in the comments. Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down. |
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To Heather and all the other nay-sayers:
Unless you have had first hand experience with a 4H or FFA livestock project, you have no right to say these things about the program. I have been involved in 4H and FFA all my life and it has made me the person I am today. There is so many other things to do in these programs that most people don't see and that is what you are basing your "facts" around. I have raised and sold many animals through my hometown county fair and I take a sense of pride and joy in the product I raise for my buyers. My animals have always had the best care that they deserve. I spend about 4 hours a day with my livestock projects and travel all across the state with them showing them at different livestock shows. Showing animals is what I love to do and the money I got from my last years projects is paying for me to go to college. All of the kids that raise animals don't do it because our parents force us to, we do it because we love it. Plain and simple. Yes I do get sad selling my animals from time to time, but knowing that they went to a well deserved buyer that wanted to support me makes it all worth. There is a lot more to the Agricultural industry then meets the eye, I just wish you would realize that.
@ Heather King: pick on the people who really matter. such as people who actually abuse, neglect, and mistreat animals. not those of us who raise them for food.
Hello Jessica – I think what you don't understand is that some people have thought these issues over with immense dedication to clarity... And their uncompromised conclusions all lead to the fact that it IS "abuse" and "mistreatment" to kill an innocent being when it's NOT necessary.
Over and over on this thread I kept reading that "being a vegetarian or vegan is your choice". And THAT's exactly the point! There IS a choice! There is no existing evidence that eschewing meat/dairy/eggs is anything but beneficial to human health. Therefore, when you breed these beings just to slaughter – It is done by choice. It is seizing someone elses body and life for frivolous "want" not irreplaceable "need. Meat is eaten due to habit, taste and/or economics alone. And these are very poor guides to follow when setting examples of integrity, responsibility or self-discipline.
And someone justified 4H livestock programs by comparing them to robotics, rocketry, go carts, cake decorating, building model airplanes, etc. But can't anyone see how absurd this is? The notion of sentient beings being manipulated and discarded as things reeks of "othering" which is the foundation to all human atrocities. Clearly, if one has to explain the moral value and sacred difference between a model train and a cow, pig, goat or chicken – Then I believe the point of "disconnect" and the consequences are made obvious.
Will all 4H kids grow up to be serial killers or sociopathic demons? No. But I have every belief that they will be less whole and less emotionally alive. They will be more apt to ignore the value all life has for it's self, for the sake of the standards of "purpose" or "usefulness" that others may have for that life. They will be inclined to think that it's okay to force lesser, weaker beings to "serve" wants and desires others have made claim on. They will be more likely to turn from compassion in favor of expedient pragmatism.
They will shudder when they repeat their "circle of life" mantra. For their authentic intelligence knows – That they are the culprits in the circle of death. They will depend on the mutual head-nodding of all in agreement, lest anyone show the collective-self-deceit for what it is.
If we are ever to nurture this world we need to elevate ourselves to standards of empathy not reduce it to the bare minimum of an illusion that we can slaughter "kindly". No calculated extinguishment of life is ever kind.
Heather King, you are a shameful and ignorant blogger as are all in PETA. You are uninformed and unfortuantely no one can have a battle of witts with an unarmed person such as yourself. I was raised in 4-H, raised my children in 4-H, I am educated and have a good job. My children are repesctful and responsible. They have learned how to run their own business, and the value of creating a good product, which is more than I can say for the 4-H haters such as yourself. I highly suggest you pull your head out of the darkness between your legs and stop blogging your uninformed crap.
Well said,Pilgrim.
There is a 4-H club for every interest, and if there isn't, you can start one. 4-H is not just for the farm set. I participated from age 8-18, exhibiting mostly home economic projects: sewing (made my own long wool coat and all my prom gowns), cooking, cake decorating, food preservation, etc. I was a member of an exchange club and got to go to different areas of the country. I grew up on a small farm, and although I never joined a club to raise project animals, I knew what the purpose of those animals were. I helped birth lambs that were later sold. I know what those lumps of meat in the grocery store started out as. I was present during some of the slaughters and most of the processing. Am I scarred for life? Not that I can tell. I respect a person's choice to be vegitarian/vegan, but that's not for me.
My daughters are currently in a dog training club and in a small animal club. They are having very positive experiences, and learning lots. Somerset County NJ 4-H has clubs for robotics, rocketry, go carts, fishing, model airplanes, model railroading, dogs, cats, herpetology, dairy, beef, sheep, goats, alpaca, and tons more.
Regarding crying after auction and teaching that animal relationships are disposable: Please explain how giving away a seeing eye puppy is a disposable relationship. Our county has a seeing eye dog club. The dog moves on to fulfill its purpose. You better believe that the entire family cries.
I am the seventh generation to be raised on my family farm in Kentucky. I am also a proud 4-H alumni and Certified4-H Livestock Club Leader today. I am so pleased to see that a renowned chef like Kelly Liken is promoting 4-H and livestock projects. Today we live in a society with generations being removed from farming and having a true understanding of where our food is grown. We have so many urban counterparts who lack the understanding of the, how's and why's of food production. I am so pleased to see people who have the same passion for agriculture and 4-H that I do, but it does bother me to see people posts who haven't had the opportunity to hear our story and have a negative connotation of the club and lifestyle that molded me into a hardworking, productive member of our society.
The 4-H motto is to make the best better. I give most of the credit of my success in life to 4-H, FFA and of course my parents. Growing up on our family farm gave me an appreciation for hard work, responsibility and values. I spent over a decade raising market steers and was able to pursue a college degree thanks to local community members who bought my animals each year. My siblings and I would wake up early before school to go out to the barn and make sure our animals were fed and had plenty of water. When we returned home from school and extracurricular activities in the afternoon/evenings we would head back out to the barn to work with our animals and make sure that they were properly taken care of. Through my 4-H project I learned about respect for animals and proper livestock husbandry. It gave me a sense of pride to know that my hard work was helping provide a nutritious meal for others.
Today I am a Certified Volunteer Livestock 4-H Leader and work with many youth. It is my hope that they will learn how to properly take care of their animals, responsibility for taking care of them, have fun traveling to shows and meeting new friends. It is my hope that when they become adults they can look back and realize the important life lessons that they learned as 4-H members. My own children are not old enough to participate in 4-H programs, however I will encourage them to participate in 4-H and livestock projects when they are eligible.
Through the years I have also realized that many people do not have a clear perception of farming and modern agriculture practices. I along with a network of volunteer farm women are hoping to solve that. Common Ground, http://www.findourcommonground.com gives people the opportunity to meet farm women from across the United States and learn more about their families and modern farming practices.
Thanks to world class chefs like Kelly for promoting 4-H Livestock projects and the benefits of going to a county fair 4-H auction to purchase a quality animal!
I am a third generation livestock slaughterman, my grandfather, father, mother, two brothers as well as several cousins either owned or worked in slaughterhouses with over 130 years of combined experience on the kill floor. I hold a batchelor's in science in Livestock and Meat Science and have been slaughtering since I was 16. I observed my first beef kill when I was three, my first hog kill at five (and because my parents taught me what animals were for, I had no reason to cry when Dad or any member of my family knocked, shackled, hoisted and bled the livestock). I am also a 10 year alumni of Colorado 4-H and my home club is Plateau Pioneers of Peetz, CO. Our club was well known in Colorado for having the top market hogs in the region. I showed market hogs, market lambs and meat production pen of three rabbits (all of which I sold through the sale, knowing full well at eight years old where the animals were sent to. I observed high speed kill floors and small plants...any of the supposed "inhumane" treatment was always firmly shut down promptly. I am not a cold-blooded killer, however, I will raise my child to exhibit meat animals and teach them firmly what it is we are doing. There is no reason not to. To those who riducule us for raising meat animals, I'd like to see them take a walk in our shoes. Try spending cold nights pulling piglets out of sows because the heat crashed in the barns, try seeing what it's like worrying that your animal might not make weight two weeks before fair...and that's the only animal you have going that could go through the sales....you will never understand.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals.
About eight years ago, I volunteered to start up a 4-H livestock club and enlisted the help of our local cooperative extension service representatives to get it started. The reason: Today in our society, the majority of folks are at least three generations removed from the family farm and have a lack of understanding (and many times, a lack of appreciation) as to what it takes to get food to a grocery store. This bothered me. And too, I loved 4-H and FFA when I was growing up, and I wanted to share with others the wonderful things you can learn through the organizations' programs. It was because of these two organizations, I opted for a career in agriculture - a field that "everyone" relies on.
Our club has grown in size from five members (when we started) to around 20 members today - and still growing! As a former 4-H and FFA member, it is exciting to see this growth! What is even more exciting is that some of our members don't come from a farm background, and most of them have beef and dairy projects! As a club advisor, I believe it is my responsiblity to help educate our members about proper care and treatment of animals, and to make sure that they understand where their food comes from. To help educate kids about food production, we do community service projects at a local food bank so that they can experience first hand how livestock and crop production is so important to everyone - especially those in need.
In our club, it is a family thing. Moms, dads, siblings...everybody pitches in to make 4-H members' experiences be the best they can be. I can honestly say that our kids are some of the best mannered, responsible and compassionate youngsters I've ever met. In many cases, I credit 4-H for playing a part in building their character.
If you haven't experienced 4-H today, what are you waiting for? Call your local cooperative extension service 4-H agent or your state 4-H office to find out how you can get involved as a volunteer or to be a member. I haven't regretted it....either will you!
I have been a proud member of 4-H from the age of 7 to the age of 19. 4-H has taught me how to be a responsible adult, how to care for animals properly, how to train a dog humanely, how to cook, sew, draw, paint, identify rocks, build rockets, and plant a sustainable garden. Likewise I showed horses and goats for several years and I can tell you I have been behind the front lines of the animal division of 4-H. You will never ever find better cared for animals then you do at a 4-H fair. Our pledge is "I pledge my head to clearer thinking, my heart to greater loyalty, my hands to larger service, and my health to better living for my club, my community, my country, and my world" We pledge to think logically and humanely, we pledge to love our animals for what they are and treat them with the utmost respect, we pledge our hands to committing acts of kindness toward those around us be it animals or humans, and we pledge to live healthy lives meaning we do not take poor care of our animals or ship them off to large animal processing plants. We sell them locally to people who appreciate our hard work of tenderly raising the animal from birth. We do all of this for ourselves, our families, our communities, the United States of America, and we even have international programs where we go to other countries and teach them just how valuable of a lesson it is to be fair and just to all creatures.
Well said life long 4-Her!!! I'm so disgusted what these none 4-Her's have said!!!
To Heather King! You need to learn more about 4-H because at this point you are totally ignorant of what 4-H is!!!! As a former 4-H member and Cattle rancher in 4-H you are learn responsiblity of taking care of your projects and getting them ready for show!! You also learn leadership skills!!! From all my friends in and out of 4-H the ones I have shown with over the years are much better people and citizens then the ones I didn't go thru 4-H with!!! I will support 4-H and junior livestock functions for the rest of my life because they are better people then you!!!
You want to be a vegetarian? Fine. You choose not take part in consuming animal products? Go right ahead. I will respect that we all have these freedoms to make our own diet and consumption decisions, but I can't stand to see people make judgements about organizations, or agriculture in general, when they have A) Never been involved, B) Not researched properly, or C) Choose to criticize something because it's easier than accepting the fact that they are wrong.
When you speak negatively about 4H, FFA, or farming, you are degrading an entire generation, industry, and livelihood. I have grown up in a rural area and have been involved in all of the above. Agriculture will forever be a part of my life, not only because it is a choice, but because it is inevitable. Agriculture is America's number one industry and provides over 24 million people with jobs, and it can only keep on growing. If you check out this link you will read the many facets of life that involve agriculture
http://www.farmersfeedus.org/fun-farm-facts/
Agriculturalists take their job seriously. They understand that if they don't do their job, 155 more people will go without food. Watch this video to find out how important ALL forms of agriculture really are
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A4oAyKOGHg&feature=related
So please, if you feel like you have the type out an essay about why you don't support agriculture, take some time to get the facts (I even gave you websites to look at, can't say you don't know where to start). Ask a farmer in the area if you could tour their facilities, they would be more than willing to educate you. Actually TALK to a current 4H or FFA member. Look online for a local "Breakfast on the Farm." Follow the process being made with the 2012 Farm Bill. Make an effort to understand the industry that makes living on this planet possible instead of making irrational assumptions.
Sincerely,
A proud 4H and FFA member,
Anactive agriculturist pursuing a degree in Agricultural Education,
A member of our society that supports those who feed the world.
I am super liberal and totally love 4-H! I had rabbits, cats, photography, and sewing. 4-H is so much more than livestock!
"super liberal" You need a cape and mask.
Has anyone else on here noticed that the ONLY people criticizing 4-H and livestock projects are people who have never been involved in either?!? I like to say "Stupidity is a nuisance, ignorance is an opportunity", many of us have taken the opportunity to educate those who are ignorant of 4-H, if they choose to no to take from the opportunity they've been given, then you really "can't fix stupid"!!!!!
As I read these I am happy to see so many people supporting 4-H. That organization, along with FFA, made me and many of my friends the successes we are today. And all of us "showed".
Growing up on a farm or a ranch, and participating in these two, fine youth organizations you were aware of what was expected of you. You picked a young animal, you cared for it, feeding it twice a day, preparing it for the shows, you really put your heart and soul into making sure this animal was well cared for and well trained. Then came the time, you made the premium sale at the big show, you walked your animal on the truck after. It wasn't easy, it never got easier. These were my friends, but I knew they had a greater purpose, feeding our country. If they didn't make the sale, you took them home, finished feeding them out and your family fed off them or perhaps a neighbor bought them for the same purpose. Some of my funniest family moments came from around the dinner table asking, "who are we eating today?". It was a way of grieving over the loss of that friend.
It was hard, I won't lie. But I know that all that hard work, the leadership skills I learned have made me, and my friends the people we are today: best selling authors, lawyers, politicians, Emmy winners, doctors, and even farmers/ranchers.
Maybe I was desensitized, but I still cry when my favorite TV show kills off a beloved character, or when my dog gets ill. But there is so much more to 4-H and FFA, please all of you who don't support the idea, learn more about it. Take a chance and wonder your upcoming county fair, you'd be surprised to see the passion these youth have for what they do and how well a 10-year-old understands that even though they are saying good-bye to an old friend, they are helping the greater cause.
Remember, this country was founded on agriculture. Don't turn your backs on it.
I worry about the commenters who say the kids are "desensitized" to the fate of their project animals. If a commenter is a vegetarian, that's a fair opinion to have, but anyone who eats meat should as a matter of principle, observe, understand and honor the process. Those who hunt and those who raise food animals, such as 4-Hers, have a greater awareness of what happens to put the food on the table. To say they're desensitized is to presume that the steak on your plate got there by magic.
I am a former 4-Her who proudly raised the Grand Champion Steer at the Orange County Fair, Costa Mesa CA. in 1983. Not only did I raise my animal with love and compassion, I learned valuable skills that helped me start and run a successful culinary business.
I can't say enough about how great the 4-H program was for me. I have bought from the auction for my own use and plan on encouraging other chefs to do as well.
So proud of all the strong support for 4-H. 4-H is a great organization. Again, those liberal nut-jobs just don't get it and sadly they never will!!!
Excuse me, I'm a liberal nut-job and I totally support 4H. Could we maybe leave the political mudslinging out of this?
The 4-H association has released the following statement; "We respect all forms of life, even Vegans. However, given a choice to save a Vegan or a Non-Vegan from a burning building, we would definitely save the Non-Vegan. They usually smell better."
And now back to your regularly scheduled Eatocracy...
Win!
Also, do I want animals destined for slaughter to be treated humanely- absolutely!
Do I want to eat children's pets- NO!!!
4H animals are not pets. They're raised by children who know exactly where meat comes from, and exactly where livestock goes to.
These animals are NOT pets. Can you speak to where you are getting the idea that these animals are pets?
Are people comparing 4-H with being on the street and joining a gang? Talk about being damned by faint praise!
I am a 4H member and have been since 6th grade. Now I'm a senior in high school and I have done over 100 hours of community service by coaching a 4H robotics team and teaching computer programming to kids. 4H is not all about farming – our 4H is done through an a University of Illinois extension and there are agriculteral activities and outdoor activities for people who want to do them – everthing is optional. Otherwise there are so many activities to participate that I cannot name. The ones I have participated in are robotics, computers, ceramics/sculptures, and wood shop. I will be attending the University of Illinois next fall seeking a degree in electrical engineering and 4H robotics sparked my interest in engineering.
I was a 4-H member for 8 years, from 4th-12th grade. I raised two animals each year: one to keep for our family's table and one to sell. I wasn't desensitized to the animal's end. My pigs or lambs wouldn't have existed for any reason other than for me to raise, sell, slaughter, and consume. Developing a respect for and a bond with a being that would nourish me created much respect and reverence for that animal. My livestock (they were livestock, not pets) received daily walks, frequent baths, and excellent health care. They received healthy nutrition and a healthy place to live out their lives. Yes, they were slaughtered. Yes, I took part in processing some of the animals once they were killed. For me, it's a matter of respecting the process. If I can't handle watching a food processed, I certainly wouldn't be comfortable consuming it. However, not everyone has that opportunity, but I wouldn't judge them regardless.
That upbringing keeps me from purchasing CAFO-raised meat. I raise chickens in my suburban backyard for eggs. I grow most of my own produce. I buy raw milk products from a local dairy. These choices are all informed from my experiences raising livestock in 4-H, and growing up on an farm.
I have yet to find someone who raised animals in 4-H or FFA who didn't have respect for his/her livestock project. We each find what works for us. I think, however, we all need to be closer to the food we consume, be it cattle or cucumber.
This year, my 6 year-old daughter will begin 4-H. While she won't raise an animal until she's older and more responsible, I look forward to watching her learn many new skills that will serve her into adulthood.
I grew up in Chicago and I was always envious of my cousins that lived in rural central Illinois and were very active in 4H. Not just the raising animals (which didn't appeal to a city girl like myself), but there were all kids of arts and crafts like pottery, painting; outdoor activities like camping, canoeing, kayaking, rock climbing, and learned skills like woodworking and leather-working, it was like combining boy scouts and girl scouts – a lot of it was fun and educational.
They did talk about raising cows and selling them at auction, they weren't super young and understood what was going to happen and whatnot. They had pets at home, and new the difference between livestock and pets. My aunt and uncle actually went in with a 3 other families to buy a quarter of one of their cows one time.
To those that seem to take issue with kids being exposed to slaughtering animals and whatnot, some people choose not to keep their kids completely sheltered from reality. If you eat meat, the meat comes from somewhere, its good for kids to have some appreciation for where their food comes from other than thinking hamburgers grow in the drive-through at McDonald's. My cousins are all grown up now, in their twenties and thirties, they are not emotionally scarred for seeing their cows go to auction – and actually eating one of the cows they raised.
Mostly PETA and HSUS collects money thru advertizing to pay themselves a lot and sue. Nice money making idea!
John
If you have never been involved in the 4-H program, how can you make judgements? I have been a Minnesota 4-Her since I was in pre-school, and am now approaching my graduation from the program. I am proud to say that Minnesota has one of the strongest programs in the nation and it has made me the person I am today. 4-H helped develop well-rounded children that not only have knowledge in agriculture, but also leadership. Throughout the years, 4-H has become more urban. I have never lived on a farm. I have never raised an animal. I don't think people understand and are extremely misguided in what they believe the 4-H program is. Yes, agriculture is its founding factor....but there is so much more to it.
I cannot believe that some people believe that 4-H members all cry after an animal is sold at the county fair...first off it is 100% optional to actually sell your animal at the fair! Secondly 4-H is not just cows, plows, and sows; it is so much more!!! Members gain so many important life skills that they will use for the rest of their lives! Just because you do not like animals to be slaughtered, even though it is part of life, do NOT take it out on 4-H as an entire program! Like someone else said earlier, 4-H is a program that encourages positive youth development and teaches members and others who care to listen about belongingness, independence, generosity, and mastery! I am a 4-H member and I think it is great! I will be able to pay for all of my bachelor's degree from earnings from generous donors from my area who come to support 4-H members at my county auction!
People need to learn that 4-H is more than just livestock! Livestock makes up a tiny portion of 4-H across the United States! 4-H is the largest youth organization in the United States with over 6.5 Million Members.
Through 4-H, members learn Belonging, Independence, Generoscity, and Mastery.
If you don't want your kids in the livestock area, DON'T ENROLL THEM IN THAT PROJECT AREA!
Enroll in another area (Photography, Visual Arts, Public Speaking, LEADERSHIP, Aerospace, Tractors, or Wood Working!)
I'm an ICU nurse. I get to see fairly young vegans die all the time. Vegies/grains do not give all the nutrients needed, so going without meats will lead to a fairly early end if you do it long enough. We Americans eat too much meat and also come to an early end. The long lived peoples in areas of the world eat a little meat and mostly grains and vegies. If the meat wasn't included they would also be short lived!
John
Thanks for that intelligent comment.
I have a question – was 4-H ever in the schools? I am sure that FFA is the school organization that the author is referring to. 4-H is through the County Extension.
4H was never in schools, just a community thing.
John
Sorry I posted my other comments where I had intended to post this in response to your question about 4-H being in schools. It has been my experience that if a school/teacher requests 4-H project materials they will be provided. While 4-H is not a "school activity" many teachers in our area do in fact use the materials. Also, 4-H projects are used extensively by the Home School Programs to expose home schoolers to activities and projects while getting school credits. 4-H is supported through a state's Land Grand University as is the entire Cooperative Extension Service found in counties throughout the United States. 4-H is a worldwide youth program. FFA is a school district supported program which also offers other subject matter beyond livestock.
Yes 4-H is in most of Georgia School's....& also in the Homeschooled Programs & even A few Private School too.......I go in once a month & teach the Healtly Living Lifestyle, Agi, & lots of other subject!!! We start in 5th grade(Cloverleafs) on up to (Jr. & Sr. 4-Her's) 12 grade,some Counties may do 4th grade also.you can become a 4-H member at 9 yrs. and like my County I have a pre club (Cloverbuds) who are younger brother & sister to 4-H'ers!!! We are more than just Hay & Hick,Some of these kids are in the advance "Gifted" programs....Some who are offered full scholarship.to some of the best Colleages in America!!!! If you don't believe me just attened one of their judging advents, (like the kid who built his own computer & design his own sofeware to go with it), or kids who made a fortune on his invention in the medicial field (while still in High School)!!!
Having been a 4-H Extension Agent, a 4-H leader and a 4-H/FFA mom over the past years I've pretty much seen it from all levels. I know of no counties that permit 4-H or FFA member to show an animal at fair and not require them to sell them at auction. The only reasons they might not sell is that the member has raised and shown several different animals or the animal itself has not met the judging requirements to sell. Many counties may allow a member to sell more than one animal but the norm is one animal per exhibitor.
Secondly, it is a pure and simple fact that a member will cry even though they went into this knowing exactly what they were getting into. I recall thru the years more than one livestock leader asking at the first project meeting, " You DO know what is going to happen to your animal after fair." The majority of kids go in with their eyes wide open. What I haven't seen mentioned (I don't have time to read all posts) is you see many of the parents with tears in their eyes. It's not just the members who become attached to the animal, the entire families can and do.
I have seen the 4-H program set the foundation for outstanding achievements by our young people for too many years to remember. I relish their goals and when they reach those goals. I love hearing from people I knew as young children who have gone on to become upstanding, productive citizens and so many times they give credit to their experiences in 4-H. So, buy your meat from whomever you choose but we will continue to support our 4-H youth just as others supported our own children when they were in the program.
4-H is through County Extension which is through local land grant universities. But Yes... 4-H is offered through schools! County Extension Agents (4-H Agents) go in to the schools and teach curriculum offered by 4-H which supports individual state education standards.
4-H is operated by the Department of Agriculture and managed by the county Ag commissioner. It starts younger than FFA at 9 years old.
Actually you can belong to 4-H at the age of 8. You must be 8 by January 1 to join. In our state 4-H is part of the extension service which is part of our state University. And, as to auctions, those are the choice of individual counties. Our county does not have an auction because many of our youth choose to take their animals on to State competitions. If you choose to take your animal to slaughter after fair, all youth are paid the same per pound price from a contracted slaughter house.
As being a 4-H member, it is an amazing experience getting to raise your animal and take pride in showing it. As living on a dairy farm, I know what it takes to work hard. 4-H kids everywhere take a lot of responsibility in doing this. You need to purchase your animal (or lease), train it in its specific needs, take care of it every day (grooming, feeding etc.) and of course, showing it at the fair! I know myself and all of my 4-H friends, when we gather at the county fair each year, we have a blast and enjoy spending time with hard working people. It gives us all a good feeling when we know we have done good. When I sold my grand champion heavy weight steer last year, I was proud- not sad. I knew I would be selling him either way. 4-H teaches good, not bad.
Ranting against 4-H? Really?
The left: for baby killing, against Boy Scouts, and now, against 4-H. Do people see a pattern here?
This isn't a political thing. There are representations all across the political spectrum here. I, for example, am a liberal, and I very much approve of what 4-H is doing. And I know a number of people on "the left" who are of similar mindset. Don't be putting blame where there isn't any. This is just people ranting.
Really? Come one, just because this is on the CNN website, it has nothing to do with ideological leanings. Left, right, liberal, conservative, lots of folks care where there food comes from. There is enough discourse out there, keep it out of this discussion please.
Seriously? I am liberal and 4-H has made me the person I am today. I will support 4-H for the rest of my life. Now, for your political statements that make no sense whatsoever, you can take them elsewhere.
Sorry, I'm a meat-eating, 4-H supporting, lifetime democrat. And I loved Girl Scouts! I just don't like corporate greed is all.
The Left believes X, Y, and Z. How do we know? Because people who believe X, Y, and Z are the Left, obvoiusly.
(substitute "right" or any other faction of your choice as necessary)
Stop bringing up politics in this. Plenty of life long Democrats support 4-H and farming. Extreme vegan\Vegetarians are a small but vocal group. 4-H is not a Republican organization and plenty of liberals eat meat and belong to 4-H.
I don't buy 4-H animals directly, but I buy my meat from a local butcher who routinely buys 4-H and FFA (Future Farmers of America) animals. The meat is noticeably better than the supermarket cuts, it helps local agriculture in general as well as the kids directly. It is good to know that my meat results from respectful animal husbandry.
@Heather... will suck for your kids when you don't let them play little league or pop warner because they may cry after they lose a game... a horrendous experience they could never learn anything from other than how to be a loser.
I am an advisor to 27 of the most responsible, very well behaved, respectful kids!! 4-H is /has taught them more responsibility than Heather will probably ever know. I cry with my kids each year after the auction but each one of them knows that they can take great pride in knowing that they treated that animal with the utmost respect and care while it was in their possession. Alot of the time the money these kids are making is going into a college fund right along with turning it around and using it the following year to purchase their next project and to pay for the care of it until they head back to the fair only to do it all over again.
I wonder if Heather wears fancy leather shoes, how about a leather belt, or wonder if she carries a leather purse or brief case? Where does she think those sorta things come from?
Heather and Kathy. These kids are sad because they are giving up something that they spent a long time raising. Have you ever raised something and had to give it up, a kid perhaps, getting married? They would cry when the animal died naturally anyway. 4-H teaches responsibility, and keeps them off the streets. Why should we care what you think about where food comes from? How do you think the pioneers lived? They killed their own livestock for food. And yes, there are other sources for protein, but honestly, meat is the best one. Do you go and protest these auctions? And how do you know that ALL of the animals are slaughtered? How many may be sold to farmers to be raised on a farm for other purposes?
Kudos! to all who took the time in detail words to answer Heather King. You have way more patience than I. I laughed out loud @ Utahsang!
I was a 4-Her my entire life. Showed swine, sheep and cattle...they were our 'babies' but you bet, we sold them to be butchered. Any person that wants a good dose of protein will eat some good 'ole farm raised MEAT.
4-H ROCKS.
@Heather...become informed before you write endlessly about something you know nothing about.
My kids are involved in 4-H and FFA animal livestock projects: Dairy cattle, beef, swine and sheep. My son was also involved in FFA Ag Mechanics. This program is far from desensitizing youth about animals. We are teaching youth to be responsible and contributing members of society and to be future leaders. There is so much more to 4-H than the Market Shows. There isn't enough space here to tell it all.
Thank you, Eatocracy for the wonderful article.
It is really so unevolved. Why are people proud that the kids are crying as they lead their animals onto the trailer to be killed for food? You are teaching them that relationships are disposable. That animals are disposable. NOT A GOOD LESSON, and these poor animals raised as pets are off to the slughterhouse where they will be tortured before they die.
I was in 4-H for many years. We were NEVER taught that animals were "disposable". As far as livestock are concerned; we were taught that we provide good care for the animal and in turn the animal will provide us with nourishment when it was time. That's reality, humans are omnivore and we eat meat, it's far better to eat what you know has been ethically raised than to buy factory-farmed meat from the grocery store. As far as animal projects that weren't livestock, such as dog, cat, horse, etc.; we learned how to properly care for the animals; both in the methods (feeding, grooming, training) and also the responsibility of having animals. We learned that animals were a big responsibility and the ownership of animals should not be entered into on a whim or impulse.
4H is just an extension of the whole animal using, human-centric world we have created. Of course none of the harmers (farmers) or parents here want to judge 4H negatively – That would require the courage to question your whole life "purpose". To "feed the world" on meat, eggs and dairy. Meanwhile, a billion people a year, who could be eating the grain instead of the fattened animals – Starve!
If television and movies de-sensitize kids – 4H and "meat" indoctrinations only add to it. Say all you will about teaching kids responsibility and setting goals – But learning how to "nurture" then condone the pithing of your "project" for the silver coins isn't anyone I'd want on my "build a better world" team. If one can betray affections so easily for greed – Me and my sort – wouldn't stand a chance among them.
Finally, the whole myth of where "food" comes from? Certainly eating highest on the food chain and closest to the sun is the most beneficial for us. I truly admire the growers of my plant based foods for which without I could not live. Food grows from the soil – Not "filtered" through and made by the slaughter of innocent beings.
Thanks, Kathy. My point exactly.
So what do you say to the people who get a dog, rabbit, guinea pig, or cat for their 3 year old kid to "take care of" and wind up sending it to the pound in 3 months when they don't want it anymore? I'm not saying this scenario and being in 4-H is related in anyway, but you seem to think the parents are teaching the kids that the animals are disposable, well, your pet-people aren't exactly angels. At least these 4-H animals are being used after they are slaughtered. Cats, dogs, rabbits, etc are thrown in a dumpster and left to rot away.
Are you a vegetarian? Do you eat meat... chicken, beef, pork, fish? Do you wear leather shoes, carry a leather purse/brief case/cell phone holder, belt?
Ever hear of the saying... to each their own?
These 4-H kids probably have more responsibility in their little fingers than most kids will encounter in their whole entire lifetime. The 4-K kids are learning life experiences – it's a fact of life that livestock animals are raised for food. I would rather eat something that one of my kids raised knowing what it was fed and how it was cared for while it was here than to go to some grocery store somewhere and get meat that came from God knows where!
Here's a hankie for your tears.
Notice there are rubber treads on one side of it so you can get a grip.
During the many years I spent in the 4-H club, never did I learn that animals were disposable, and never were feed animals considered family pets.
Kathy, do you speak from personal experience with a 4-H club? Were you a member who raised these animals?
@ Kathy,
I have never thought animals were disposable!!! But all animals have a purpose. And livestock animals are used as food and millions of other products. Just like my wonder puppies and kitties are here to be my companion and let me love them spoil them rotten. And wild prey animals are there to feed predator animals. I showed beef steers as my 4-H project and yes I cried following the auction with all of my friends. But it really was a bitter/sweet emotion, I was so proud of the product I made and knew the people that consumed that animal would have the best quality beef possible, and that animal had lived the life of luxury the entire time I owned him. I also knew where that animal was going and the person that would euthanize him would do it humanely. I cried because I'm human and got attached and knew I would miss him, just like I cried when a friend moved away and I knew I wouldn't get to see her anymore.
IM sorry but what exactly is your idea of how they are tourtured? These animals are fed the highest quality feed, cared and attended for every day, givin clean fresh water, and exercised. these animals are...dare i say...pampered.
you people make me very sad that you are willing to hang an organization that does so much for our youth, and quite frankly i am affraid that because you are louder and more annoying, other people with no brain cells who can not decide for themselves will belive what you and other uneducated and ignorant people tell them.
My goal as a future ag teacher is to reach each and every student possible to educate them on the importance of agriculture. not being mean to little piggys and laughing as they die. but to care for your livestock, work hard and value what you get out of it, and to be greatful and respectful for the food we have. And also!!! belive it or not!!! how to grow crops, and vegitables...to feed you, the very type of person who is trying to stomp us out. Get rid of us honey, go ahead, but then i beg you to tell me where you will get YOUR food??? or the clothes you wear?? or didnt you know a farmer (who was more than likely in 4H) had to grow the cotton to make it.......
It is unfortunate that you have so much money in your pocket that you have never had to break a sweat in the hot sun to make sure your animals are fed and their pens are clean BEFOR you are able to sit and the table and have supper
Do you think that countries less fortunate than ours would prefer to eat a carrot or steak that is full of nutrients (not to mention ummm...flavor) to help them and their dying families grow???
You and people like you are a discrase to the people who founded our country, your very own great great grand parents had to farm and ranch to survive, they weren't a bunch of cry baby softies who drove their car to the store everyday to get their grocieries....but you probably think that they just appear there by magic.
Your blind ignorance of agriculture in its entirety makes me SICK and i pray for you and those you influence.
I was a member of 4-H since I was 5 years old. I am now 22 and can honestly say I have gained more from this organization than any other I have been involved in. 4-H is more than a rural program for kids to learn how to raise livestock. 4-H is a youth development program for children to learn in a way that they can not in the schools. They get an opportunity to learn skills hands on in a fun and stress free environment. I took a variety of 4-H projects from dairy to sewing to interior design. I had the opportunity to learn leadership skills and gain confidence in who I was. I have gone into job interviews and had the ability to speak confidently, because of the experiences I had the opportunity to partake in as a 4-Her.
4-H has been a program to raise youth...not just livestock. There is far more to the organization than livestock. Yes 4-H does have projects geared toward market livestock, but in these projects the 4-Hers are taught about the animals and how to raise them in a humane way. 4-H helps teach the youth lessons about raising these animals in a quality manner. 4-Hers partake in a program called Quality Assurance. They take skillathons to show the knowledge they have gained about their livestock areas.
Like all organizations there are some people like @Betty who had a poor experience, but at the end of the day I feel the vast majority of 4-H alum would say they walked away from the program with a positive experience. It has helped me grow into the responsible young woman I am today. I gained compassion working with the other youth in my county. I learned how to communicate and respect all kinds of people. 4-H opened many doors for me and helped guide me into my career field now.
I respect the views of those who do not eat meat. That is a personal decision, but I hope that those who feel 4-H is a negative organization are not lumping the whole program in with livestock. 4-H is much much more than kids raising animals. It stretches beyond those small borders and is more about become a responsible citizen and leader in your community one day. It teaches kids how it feels to be proud of an accomplishment. Some of these 4-Hers are not successful in sports, school, or the arts. 4-H gives them an outlet and lets them show their skills in a new area. I knew many fellow 4-Hers who finally found a place to feel wanted, proud, and accomplished in 4-H. This is an amazing thing. Our youth need an outlet like this, and I am not saying 4-H is the only program that provides this, but it one that does.
For those of you who do not know much about 4-H, you state's website and learn a little more about it. Look at the national opportunities it provides. It's a good program that I can say truly made me the strong confident woman I am today. Check out http://www.ohio4h.org/ to see how Ohio 4-H helped me.
Kids in 4-H are never taught that animals and our relationships with them are disposable. They know where their animal is going to end up from the very beginning of the project . They don't have to do an animal project and they aren't even required to auction off their animal if they do choose to do a market project.
We are taught SO many things in 4-H that help to make us better people later on in life. We meet life-long friends and build relationships that we wouldn't otherwise have. We are also involved in community service and other activities. We learn about animal husbandry, as well as record keeping and budgeting. We learn about where those packages of meat in the grocery store come from. We also earn a sense of pride knowing that we are producing good quality meat in a humane way. I think the most important thing taught is RESPONSIBILITY. Something that many kids these days don't know anything about. Parents aren't allowed to help, so by committing to raising a project, we HAVE to take care of them, no matter what. This sometimes means not going on vacation because we have animals to take care of. It also means taking care of them when you're tired or sick and don't really want to do anything. It means taking care of your animals no matter what the weather is. It means feeding your animals before yourself, as well as feeding your animals before hanging out with friends or doing anything else you want to do. I honestly believe that the world would be a better place if more kids were involved in 4-H.
These animals receive more care and attention than most people's cats and dogs. They are fed 2, if not 3 times a day, receive all of their vaccinations on time, get groomed daily, and always receive vet care when needed. All of this leads to better-quality meat.
These animals become our pets, and as with any pet, we are sad to see them go. We are in no way proud that kids are crying as they say goodbye to their projects. Bonds are formed with these animals that nobody would understand if they've never raised one. However, these kids are left with the pride in knowing that they produced excellent quality meat in a humane way. The money from these projects often goes towards the 4-H member's college education or purchasing an animal for next year's project, or even towards their future in raising livestock. Many of these kids wouldn't be able to afford college if it wasn't for the projects that they raised and sold during their time in 4-H.
Like I said, 4-H members have the choice of MANY other projects, including showing breeding animals that will not be slaughtered, or projects that don't even involve animals. Even if a member chooses to do a market animal project, they aren't required to sell it in the auction.
Finally, the animals are in no way tortured before they die. Around here, a butcher truck picks them up after the auction. They are then taken to a grassy pasture where they live out their final days. When they're ready, the butcher comes and takes a few at a time for processing. They don't know it coming, don't feel anything, and are in no way panicked. (BTW, this also contributes to good-quality meat).
I advise that anyone visit a county fair and talk with the 4-H members about their project and what they've learned. I'm sure they can teach you a lot.
Good write-up on a very narrow view of the largest youth development program in the United States of America...yes, that United States of America, the one where people can say what they want, and more importantly make decisions about what they eat. While still owing it's roots to Agriculture, 4-H has evolved into one of the most diverse programs available for youth. Some (@T3chsupport) would be surprised to learn that the bulk of 4-H'ers come from suburban areas, not rural and not poor. However, you do find 4-H programs across the nation, in small towns and big cities. Others would be surprised to learn that 4-H focuses on three mission mandates, citizenship, healthy living and science, engineering & technology. Finally, while 4-H is the youth development program of the Department of Agriculture, it is actually administered at the local level by each state's Land Grant Universities. You may have heard of some of them...Cornell, Virginia Tech, Texas A & M, Florida, Rutgers, etc.
So, now you know a little more about something you probably knew nothing about...unless you are one of the 6 million + kids (and their parents) who have some contact to 4-H each Year, or one of the uncountable millions who have been a 4-H'er in the past.
btw...I was never in 4-H, but I wish I was.
I work in a small family owned and operated meat processing facility. I see crying 4 H members lead their animals onto the trailer after the auction sale. I see pride and determination to raise quality animals. I see 4 H members hug and thank the buyer of their animals. I see a buyers dinner a week after the sale put on by the families for the buyers. I see buyers come to my facility to get their meat. They are so happy to have food that they know who and where it was raised and who and where it was processed. It make so much more sense than the alternative. Nuff Said.
Another graduate of 4-H and a 4-H parent. I learned responsibility at a very young age (my yearly projects were raising lambs, hogs or a steer [only once, way too much work!] and I learned horsemanship in 4-H's program and went on to teach horsemanship principles in 4-H.
Yes, I got attached to those animals, for the most part. My animals were fed before I had breakfast; were cared for before I did my homework and had dinner. I cannot eat lamb to this day; something Freudian about the smell and taste, and I'm reminded of sheep dip, something we had to apply to our newly-shorn animals prior to being brought on show grounds. The money I earned went back into horsekeeping, usually upgrading my tack, and purchasing another animal for market for the spring fair.
At least the 4-H market animal is well-fed, treated with respect and cared for one-on-one for its life. Better to have a kid bring you your meals, clean your pen and encourage you to sleep in clean shavings as opposed to beign pushed and shoved by other animals when your meals are served, standing in your own poo and never having a moment's peace.
While some of the animals in 4-H are slaughtered, in my experience as a member, parent and leader. It teaches respect for the animal.
4-H is a wonderful organization that deserves everyone's support whether it is buying a market steer, viewing the projects at the fair or allowing the neighbor kid to have a hen or two in his backyard,
Yes, absolutely!
I was heavily involved in 4-H as a teenager. It kept me out of a LOT of trouble, and I learned a ton. My last year, I took on over 20 individual projects, and placed champion for 9 of them. My 4-H leader would teach me anything I had any interest in learning, which was good, because we didn't have much in the way of the internet at the time, and school was fairly useless.
#3 though, must be a new one. The money from our sales went directly to us, not into any sort of fund. Most of us used this money to buy school clothes and supplies for the coming school year, and the leftover stuff we'd usually end up spending back on our animals.
You learn a lot about raising an animal for auction. You learn where that animal comes from, you see their personalities come out as they grow up. You learn what they need to be healthy, and what kinds of diseases affect them, and how to prevent them. It teaches you about grooming, and gentling your animal for show. It teaches you immense confidence when you have to show your animal, and have to answer specific questions about it to a stranger who is judging your poise and knowledge. You learn about overhead costs, and profit, and investing. You learn about treating an animal with all due respect, as a disrespected animal will not be as presentable as a well treated one. You learn about letting go. You learn about the food supply, and why it's important to know where it comes from, and how it lives. You learn about goals, and responsibility, and hard, dirty work. You learn about a job well done, and you certainly learn about failure, as well as triumph.
Plus, there's nothing more exciting as watching a little kid with his first steer grinning from ear to ear as the bids keep going higher and higher.
I support 4H not only did this program help me earn money for my first car, laptop, and college it taught me great simple values in life that are still in me.
It also helps support local businesses & families.
@ Heather King – I raised swine in 4-H in the early/mid eighties. Your anger is misdirected. I did grow attached to my animals and cried profusely at the end of each auction. I do eat meat, and take some solace in knowing that during the life of my animal I was able to treat them with care and respect. I never felt pressured by any of my 4-H leaders to distance myself emotionally. Quite the contrary. I was encouraged to respect the animal and abuse was strictly forbidden. My experience taught that it is possible to not only raise animals for meat but also to plant a vegetable garden...which I'm quite sure that you would support. I do agree that it is mean to kill animals...but until we live in a world that is vegan I take solace in knowing that an animal was raised humanely...not in a cramped meat factory. Through 4-H I learned to respect the intelligence of animals and to treat them accordingly....which is in stark contrast to most commercial meat operations.
4-H is one of the best programs for kids out there. I cannot sat enough good things about the program. I showed horses in 4-h as a kid and it kept me learning and having fun all summer long. Shame on the states that want to cut the program! We take away enough form our kids.
I do not agree Heather. 4H is so much more than just the aspect of the animal projects. There is cooking, photography, jewelery making and other crafts. And as far as the Animal Projects, my niece who is a vegetarian, even raises an animal (she is 17 and completely her idea). As a mom I am proud of the responsibilty that my kids take on when they are raising an animal. Kids do bond to these animals and do enjoy them, but they understand that these animals are raised to be processed for food. It teaches them about the food they eat. No kid is forced to raise an animal and 4H has so many other projects that kids can do that do not involve animals. I have kids that raise animals for showmanship only too. (Those are pedigreed animals for show, not food).
Yes, most kids do love showing thier animals and enjoy the auction experience. I think that unless you are fully involved and know about 4H, please DO NOT bash this worthy orgainization.
This is one of the best things I have seen reported on in a long time. Eatocracy, you have just won a new fan. As to Heather King, she hasn't a clue what the 4H or FFA programs are about but most of you have probably already figured that out.
agreed.
I completely agree.
For the reasons cited above, I don't and would never support the 4-H. This group helps desensitize youngsters into having no emotional attachment to animals raised for food. For those who say no one should have attachment to animals raised for food, I say "of course". This is how the meat industry stays in business. If children are raised to love all animals and not try to see them as products, they would not be interested in seeing them killed. "Listening to the auctioneer and seeing how excited the children get when their animal is purchased is an incredibly fulfilling experience." Really? Incredibly fulfilling experience. You mean knowing the animal that trusted you from birth is off to be mistreated before being slaughtered! That's fulfilling? Maybe that's because the 4-H has successfully desensitized these children who may have once be appalled by this. It's simply horrific. Shame on you 4-H for what you do to animals and to children.
Throughout my elementary & high school years I do did 4-H and I would NEVER say I was desensitize when I came to my animal. I would raise my lambs or swine and I would get attached to them and some of my friends even would cry when they parted with their animal. Even until we were seniors. No matter what we understood the process of life and people need to eat and that is how the cycle of life goes. Yes some kids would get excited for good prices during the auction but only because there was VERY hard work put into raising the animal. I did 4-H for many years and I truly know what it takes. When kids were sleeping in on Saturdays and Sundays I was out cleaning the pen, feeding, and watering my animal. It took a lot of responsibilty for that age and I learned many great things that set me apart from peers. I think it's a great program and I proudly support it all the way.
Heather, you comments come from a person who has never experienced 4-H, so let's break down the fallacies in your argument, shall we?
First, you assert that 4-H desensitizes youth into having no emotional attachment to animals. This is not true. 4-H animals are easily among the best cared for food animals out there. 4-Hers have commitments that last a month to a year, and over that time, they are personally taking care of those animals and develop strong attachment to them. It's not uncommon to see kids sad after their animals are sent off to be processed. 4-H is a group that teaches kids where their food comes from and all that goes into it. Most people, including you, I would wager, do not know all that goes into where their food comes from (not only meat, but plants as well). We are carnivores, after all, and everything in our biology shows it.
Second, you state that animals are mistreated before being slaughtered. I would guess you do not actually know this to be true, because it is not. More often than not, 4-H clubs get their animals processed by local companies and farms (for example, my chickens were sent to an Amish processing farm). The animals are driven, typically by parents and 4-Hers, to these areas, and the animals are processed the next day, and packaged the following. There is no mistreatment there. And the auctions are very fulfilling as well. For many kids, this represents the most amount of money they've ever had, and seeing their hard work pay off is incredibly rewarding.
I would suggest actually going to a fair and talking to 4-Hers about their animals. I think that you would find that the are better taken care of than any commercial equivalent or even local farm equivalent. They're cleaned regularly, exercised, often free range, etc. It is about as best you can get for raising food animals. You may not like meat, but it is a necessary requirement of our biology, and I would MUCH rather have 4-H raised animals than anything else since they would be so much better cared for.
So, shame on you for jumping to conclusions about such a beneficial organization!
Well spoken :)
In defense of Heather. . . I was in 4-H as a child in rural Alabama. I never participated in the livestock area but my brother always did. I grew up on a large farm which included the raising and slaughtering of cows, pigs, chickens, goats and sheep. I was a sensitive child and could never deal very well with all the sounds and sights of slaughter. I am now a senior citizen and to this day, I have many issues because I was expected to understand and accept the killing of the very animals I saw every day and grew to love. I was ridiculed most of those days by a family who did not care to understand a child with a very compassionate and sensitive nature. Obviously many of you are still like this. Heather was not cruel to you. . .why are some of you cruel to her?
I have had some post traumatic stress related to memories I cannot forget.
So, I have chosen to live my life not eating meat and trying everything I can to raise awareness of how factory farming is done today. If you really think all animals are treated with respect and compassion on the way to your plate, you are delusional. I KNOW from experience that they are not. . .especially in this society today.
And if you believe that animal protein is better for you than vegetables, beans, whole grains, fruits. . .then you need to check with the latest research on meat based diets. Read the facts about heart disease, diabetes, kidney disease, RA, lipid disorders and then tell the world that eating meat is the only way to get good protein.
So, thank you Heather for speaking up. I understand you completely. And to all of those who cannot see the sensitive nature of Heather and would rather put her down. . .where is all that respect and maturity and wealth of "goodness" YOU learned in 4-H? Guess it was not for humans, huh?
Umm...I think we're actually omnivores, not carnivores.
And everything in our biology shows it.
@Betty, tell us about the lambs...
@Betty
I appreciate your view, but I'm very sad that you grew up in a family that didn't treat livestock properly. I live on a cattle ranch. Our cows always have food and water in front of them. They spend their winters at home where we can watch them in the bad weather and their summers in green pastures–literally. The cattle are checked and watered everyday. They recieve their immunizations on time, and are medicated only when necessary to treat illness. We regularly have cows that produce claves as old as 15, which is a very ripe old age for a cow. This is possible because of the excellent care they recieve through their life and the quality breeding program my in-laws have run for nearly 100 years.
We raise beef cattle, so yes, they will go to slaughter. That is a fact of life, just like you and I will die some day. I will donate my body for organ harvesting or research at my death. The cattle will benefit society in their death as well.
I was a 4-H member for 10 years. I never participated in the livestock projects, only horse and leadership. But that doen's tnegate the fact that I learned responsibility, the value of money, compassion, leadership, working towards my goals, social skills, and so much more.
The members of the livestock projects that I know have a healthy understanding of what it takes to raise livestock and the true, not just monetary, cost of the meat they consume. Most of the "modern world" does ot understand where their food comes from. Ask inner city children where milk or meat comes from, they will reply the store. Same for bread. I know, I've been in the classroom. 4-H may teach children wehre meat comes from, but it doesn not desinsitize the children to "killing". These children are invested in their animals, and often the meat on their table at dinner time. I fail to see how understanding the food chain is a negative. At least these children can understand that a cow, pig, or chicken nourishes them. That is better than the alternative of not having a clue what it takes to produce the food on their table.
@Heather King, I see why you might see things this way. However, what 4-H does do is promote responsible animal husbandry and the cultivation of food resources in a responsible, ethical way. I accept your position that any killing of animals for food is, in your position, not ethical or moral, however most of us are omnivores and I for one would rather that those producing the meat I choose to eat do so in a humane and ethical way. I respect your position, but I would also hope that you would rather see people brought up to understand, and therefore demand, that there an ethical way to treat an animal even if that animal's eventual purpose is the nourishment of a human being.
Desensitization is the wrong word–education is the right word. These kids (I was one) are not at all desensitized to the process–rather, they are educated about proper raising and care of these animals. Not only was I a member, but growing up we also purchased meat and produce from 4H and FFA members–talk about locally sourced! We could be confident in the quality, origin, and raising of these products in a way we can rarely be in a supermarket.
But Heather if you choose to a vegan I have no problem with that but you should learn to be more tolerant of most people who enjoy a good steak cows happen to be very nutritious. PETA- People Eating Tasty Animals.
Heather, you have the support of all animal lovers. How many of you 4H'ers stood around and watched the animal being slaughtered? How many of you have watched an actual assembly line at a meat processing plant? if you did, you would never say such things about animals being treated decently.
I certainly hope you and heather don't wear leather shoes how could you ever consider such a thing.
4-H raises people to become insensitive to animals. Plus it traumatizes the children when their "pets" sre sold to be killed. Great education.
Thanks, J.
Food animals =/= pets. Pets are companion animals, like a dog, cat, some say horse. Food animals (cattle, chickens, sheep, rabbits) are called food animals for a reason. They've been bred for hundreds of years to serve a purpose, and that's to give people FOOD. Humans are omnivores, they eat meat. Don't try to kid yourself into thinking that we're not supposed to eat meat. The kids know what the fate of that animal is when they sign up for that species. If they don't want their animal sold, they would pick a horse, rabbit or another strain of 4-H to compete in.
Like I stated in another reply, have you ever been at a 4-H auction? Most of the younger kids end up crying after their animal gets bought and not donated back. As they grow older, they wrap their head around the idea, but when they're first starting out they have a hard time accepting it. It doesn't mean they're "desensitized" to it, it's the fact they they've matured and understand that animal's purpose more as time goes on.
To naysayers,
The simple fact is that short of eating no meat at all, the best one can do to support the humane treatment of livestock is to purchase a 4-H animal. I was involved in 4-H from ages five through seventeen, raised eight project hogs in all, as well as numerous animals on the side for my personal dinner table and private buyers. Let me tell you, you could not find a group of children more responsible or respectful of the well being of animals.
Someone asked earlier in the thread how many 4-H kids had actually seen an animal slaughtered. In my club back home (rural Sierra Nevadas), the answer was ALL OF US. We toured the packing houses where our animals would later be slaughtered (note packing HOUSES, as these buildings housed perhaps thirty head at an outside estimate, nowhere near large enough to call a "processing plant"), examined carcasses, viewed the taking of animals lives and the bloodletting afterwards, and were given briefings on the saws and tools used. This while spending hours a day bathing, training, feeding and cleaning up after our own still very alive animals.
I first heard rumors of barbaric meat factories and cruel, filthy slaughterhouses as an adult when I left home. In all sincerity, I did not believe it. Not for years. But I did taste a difference in the meat served within the limits of urbanized areas, and I know for a fact that it is the cruelty that I taste. I spent enough years smelling the testosterone and adrenaline of a panicking animal to recognize it when it hits my tongue, and knew that no responsible butcher would ever slaughter an animal in an emotional state for that reason. It was this finding that prompted me to open my eyes when one day I passed a factory cattle ranch while driving. The conditions there could not be farther from how I was taught to produce meat. In our club, animals were routinely checked for overall well-being by our project leaders as well as a veterinarian, often without notice, and once at fair all irregularities in gait and muscling, as well as bruises and scratches, were logged and checked out. Any youngster accused of mistreatment of an animal was banned for some period of years and could expect never to work in agriculture locally. While I remember one or two instances, it was very, very uncommon. To reiterate, you could not find a more responsible or knowledgable group of kids.
4-H families love animals just as much as you do, and they usually have a better understanding of them. Domestic cows, sheep and pigs exist so humans can eat. Attacking 4-H is nuts and self-righteous. I don't care if you are a vegan, but I want my kids to be healthy. If we lived in the country they would be in 4-H. As a child, I was in 4-H and it was a great program. I can remember having many meals that were entirely raised by our family. How can that be wrong? It is a lot better to undertand where meat comes from than to just think it comes from a package at the store.
Kathy-the animals that are raised are not "pets"–the purpose is clear from the start. They are livestock and are raised as livestock. If you talked to any 4-H-er raising swine, sheep, cattle, or even goats, they would tell you that the animal is not a "pet". This doesn't take away from the care and dedication that each 4-Her shows to the animal, but implying that children are traumatized when their "pet" is taken away and slaughtered is certainly not accurate.
@Kathy – Kids who are showing livestock generally know they are not being raised as pets. And 4-H teaches so much more than about livestock and food and nutrition. A big part of 4-H is leadership – outside of a showring.
These are often rural, somewhat poor kids. They don't typically care about your touchy feely crap. They love the animal, but they also respect that animal's purpose. They live more reality in one day than you probably will your entire life.
Bravo!
I really like the point you make about the children loving their animals but also having a respect for their purpose. I particpated in 4-H for almost 15 years. The animals are truly loved. Kids are taught that the animals have to go on, so everyone can eat. There comes a level of respect and pride of the animal that I have seen nowhere else. I also think 4-H gives something more than a project or something to keep busy. I have lifelong friends, and lessons I couldn't have got anywhere else. 4-H truly emphasizes doing things the right and respectable way.
Well said!
I've seen animals be born and animals die in the same day. It's a part of life that most people try to pretend doesn't exist.
Heather King,
As much as you want to be in denial about where food comes from and that humans are omnivores, your post is flat-out wrong and based on ignorance.
I grew up on a farm, in a farming/ranching community, and was in 4-H. It didn't "desensitize" me, nor were my parents, neighbors, and friends "desensitizes". We learned to respect the animals more than you probably ever will. Yes, we got attached, but we also knew exactly where our food came from, both crops and livestock, and learned to have great responsibility and respect for the both land and the animals.
And not every 4-H project has to do with livestock and raising animals for food. There are also many other projects: cooking, rocketry, sewing, dog showing, photography, just to name a few.
Dear SGL, as for needing some good ole farm raised MEAT, there is certainly enough evidence to suggest that protein can be accessed in ways that do not include the killing of anmals. Furthermore, I know people who were involved with the 4-H and base my statements on things they have shared with me.
I'm glad to know of the other things that 4-H does. However, the fact that I'm against the area of children raising animals who will be auctioned off for slaughter is an indication that I'm not in denial about where meat comes from. I have seen it for myself and am sorry so many people apparently think that subjecting kids to this kind of experience is acceptable.
I agree, the major agri-business companies and factory farms have a LOT more influence and pull than people would ever know. It's unfortunate, almost all of the decision makers working at the USDA were previously executives/VPs/presidents for meat production companies....it's no wonder that the USDA's agenda is everything but regulating and reforming what goes on in factory farms....p.s. the E.P.A. will also tell you every way to help the environment except anything that involves negative impact to the meat industry. Even though, in their very own report on greenhouse gases, the #1 culprit was enteric fermentation (it comes from animals such as cows, sheep and other animals poorly raised in factory farms) which is a large contributor to methane. Methane traps 20 times as much heat as carbon dioxide....I digress, but before anyone has a rebuttle to my comments or someones alike please educate yourself on what goes on in the meat industry/factory farms and the USDA's and EPA's agendas.
Just an FYI-over 98% of farms are family owned. Factory farms are wrongly portrayed and are simply farms that are owned by multiple groups, individuals, or companies, but this doesn't mean that it is a negative thing. These "factory farms" are often very similar to the family farms that most people are familiiar with.
I can honestly say you're very wrong. If you ever attended a 4-H auction, you will see MANY kids in the back crying after their animal was bought and not donated back. A lot of the kids get attached and don't want to see them get slaughtered, but they know that it's a possibility. Many lambs are donated back, but you rarely will ever see a cow or pig donated back to the kid, it's expected. It's a learning experience, kids do it because they like raising the animal and showing it, and plus they get a nice reward in the end for all their hard work. I'd much rather see these kids raising a cow to slaughter then doing drugs or joining a gang in their spare time. The kids don't throw it in a pen outside and stroll into the barn once a day to feed it, they have to work hands on with breaking and training the animal to stand, walk, brace, etc. It's a lot of work and bonding (do you really think the child will go into the ring without ever bonding with the cow? No.) so of course the kids will get attached.
Also, don't lump kids hand rearing animals with the large scale beef cattle/poultry/dairy/swine producing industry. If you go to a big operation, you'll see lame and unkempt animals like you won't believe. As long as they can make it to the slaughterhouse and walk in, that's all the company is concerned about. THOSE are the ones with no value for animals. These 4-H kids want the BEST for their animals while they're alive.
I never was in 4-H as a child, I lived in Youngstown, OH. Now that I moved to WV for college for an agricultural degree, many of the kids I meet do 4-H and I see what good comes out of it. I wish I was a 4-Her when I was younger because you learn amazing things, and get to experience a lot of great things, and you meet great people while doing it. Get your head out of PETA's a$$ and look at it from a different perspective. Small scale food-animal raisers aren't cold blooded killers, they're making money doing what they enjoy doing. If anyone is desensitized to animal life, go to Youngstown and talk to all the thugs on the street that grew up around murders happening weekly. THEN you'll find someone who doesn't value human or animal life.
If I have kids, you bet they'll be in 4-H. I'd rather see them doing that than doing what most of the people I grew up with did. Kids deserve more of a chance than what drugs, crime and partying can offer them.
My previous reply was to Heather King. I don't know how to work this website.
Brianna, you have certainly added to my point. Children crying about the animal they were forced to sell. That's exactly why I don't like 4-H. I also don't like the large institutions either. Frankly to anyone who disliked my comments, animals suffer and children suffer and that's what I hate.
Heather, NO ONE IS FORCING THE KIDS TO PARTICIPATE. There are SO many other strains of 4-H for them to compete in that don't require their animal to be sold. They know what they're getting into when they start. I used that example to show that the kids care, not that the kids are ruined forever. They value the animal and love the animal, and they're sad to see it go. They're not desensitized at all. They come to accept the fact that that's the fate of the animal as they mature, but they don't ever think of the animal as disposable or worthless.
You're taking my words and twisting them around. Had I never said about how the kids cry because their animals are auctioned off, you would have never known because you clearly don't know sh!t about 4-H.
People like you never cease to amaze me, at one point in my teen years I was a vegetarian, PETA-follower, yada yada and then I got real. Thank God I did, because I'd hate like h3ll to have your viewpoint. Have a fantastic night, next time you see a cow in a field, go give it a hug and kiss for me. Oh wait, you probably would be too scared to get anywhere near it because you've clearly never dealt with farm animals before or else you probably wouldn't think like you do.
To defend myself for those last few comments, I love all animals (except for chickens they creep me out), I've worked with cows, sheep, horses, dogs, cats, rabbits, etc and I treat all of them very nicely and they get tons of love from me. But, I understand what their purpose is, and accept it. Everyone I know talks about how much I love animals and are surprised at how much passion I have for their well-being while they're alive. But, that isn't stopping me from eating some delicious steak!
And, I think it's complete BS how large scale operations treat their animals and can get away with it. But, like I said, don't lump those guys and 4-Hers in a group together. One only cares about money, the other one cares about the animal. Complete opposite ends of the spectrum
You want to talk about desensitizing... turn on the TV! That's what's wrong with America! Not 4-H! 4-H allows kids to develop positive life skills and positive attitudes!
Dear Heather King.
1. Kids join 4H voluntarily. If they were "suffering" they would quit.
2. Animals aren't suffering. They are getting treated like royalty. Food and water always available, people that care about them, shelter from harsh environments, care is provided when sick or injured. Not even all PEOPLE get this kind of treatment in this country....
3. If anything, suffering is a part of life and you can't shelter people forever because it is going to be experienced at some point in time.
Or perhaps 4-H sensitizes future farmers into the responsibility they have in raising livestock and vegetables properly and humanely, in treating them with appropriate respect because the animals and plants will be used as food. That was a very important part of 4-H in my area. People are going to eat chickens, but you should know better than to lock them in cages or torture them. People will eat cows, but that doesn't mean then have to be tied up in pens and terrorized all their lives. The difference between cold commercial practice and 4-H values is immense. Additionally, 4-H emphasizes practical living skills for both rural and non-rural populations. One of the best programs they run here is a weekend retreat for teenagers, where they are introduced to a variety of fields and experiences outside usual academia (there is SO much more to education than the 'three Rs', though our education higher-ups seem to forget that), and appropriate social interaction is emphasized.
4-H does a lot of good, and I will always be supportive of their programs and values.
Oh get real!!!!!!!!!!!
HeatherKing, do you realize that the world HAS TO EAT? It is a fact of life. There is a growing need for food with a population of 7 billion. If 4-Hers were desensitized to killing so much, they would treat all the animals like crap because, in your mind, they are not interested in the animal itself. Big meat corporations are the ones who treat animals poorly because they are raised in large numbers. 4-H er's actually pay attention to each animal's needs.
I would also like to add: 4-H participation results in Positive Youth Development, through 4 elements of... Belonging, Independence, Mastery, and Generosity.
Being a vegan such as yourself is a choice. However, it is not a choice that everyone makes. Many other people choose to eat meat. Pretending that meat isn't meat, or it doesn't come from animals (maybe it grows in those foam trays in grocery stores?), is fundamentally dishonest. I would think that, as a vegan, you would value honesty about where one's food comes from, instead of encouraging avoidance of the whole process.
Great points! This headline caught my attention thinking that they would be promoting people adopting great farm animals that have been raised by kids, groomed, and continuing to raise them as pets. Instead, it talks about how wonderful they are to eat? And watching them move around helps you to see muscle tone?? Are you serious?? It blows my mind that people can't make the connection that farm animals like cows, pigs, goats, ducks, etc...feel pain the exact same way that dogs and cats and other animals do. Google Meet Your Meat to see exactly what animals endure during slaughter....this includes 4-H animals that are sold to local farmers, fattened, and then sold once they're big enough to give their owner a profit.
Snoopy,
4-Hers raise their project animals to "finished" weight it is EXTREMELY rare that anyone will purchase and animal and take it home. The whole point of a meat animal project is to raise that animal to the point at which it is ready to become meat. That is how the animals are judged during the livestock show. And as stated earlier, these animals normally go to small local slaughter houses that deal in very low animal numbers. Where I'm from the most animals our local abattoir ever processed at one time was following the county fair. And there are many places out there that euthanize animals humanely. It's is really disappointing that the actions of a few heartless idiots ruins the reputation of the entire livestock industry.
@Heather King –
If you have a problem with people who eat meat, could you please use another platform for your grandstanding? 4H teaches a lot of things, but "desensitizing" kids is absolutely NOT one of the things that a 4H'er learns. I was a 4H kid, I DID tour the packing houses, and I know where the livestock from the livestock programs went after the fair sale. I know where my food comes from and that's why I would much prefer to buy beef from a kid who raises it in his backyard, takes it to the fair to be judged on his work, and then sells the steer to be slaughtered so I can bring home locally grown beef. I know the whole time where that steer has been. Can you say the same thing about whatever it is that's on your plate? Unlikely unless you grow everything you eat, or you buy food ONLY from local growers and processors.
I respect your food choice – it works for you. Don't come on here throwing flames at an organization that does nothing but teach kids life skills. Those kinds of organizations are falling by the wayside and it is a shame. More people could use a dose of:
I pledge my head to clearer thinking
My heart to greater loyalty
My hands to larger service
and My health to better living
for my club, my community, my country and my world.
Motto: To Make the Best Better.
THANK YOU EATOCRACY – Love to see 4H getting some props in the press! Passing it on to all my chef friends!
Well said. My 4 kids are all in 4H and FFA. They learn how to provide shelter, food, water and immunizations for their animals as well money management. Yes, they cry after the auction, but they are beaming with smiles and very proud in the show ring knowing that all the hard work has paid off. It has kept my kids and family close together, we spend evenings and weekends doing chores and projects, not wondering where my kids are or what they are doing. Heather is deluded!
I am appalled at the simple fact that you think 4-H desensitizes youth. YOU must have never seen the "behind the scenes" when the youth are tearing down and cleaning up after the local county fair is over. There are young men and women, who have in some cases been with the animal from birth, but in most cases have raised the animal after purchasing it from another farmer. These youth who show and sell their animals, can be found in a corner of the livestock barn, crying because their animal is not leaving the fair with them. NO matter how old they get, it is the same thing, sometimes every year. I've seen it while I was in high school, while my sister was in high school and now with my two boys, one of which is autistic. The youth of 4-H are taught to care for and love the animal as if it is the last thing on the Earth for them. They learn every detail and aspect of raising that particular animal.
To say that the youth are desensitized is an outrageous remark.I realize that we are in America and that we all have a right to say our mind – but I wouldn't be closed minded about something until you go and experience it for yourself. Find a local 4-H chapter and ask the youth what they think about taking an animal to auction and selling it. You might find that your comment is out of place and belongs to a society that doesn't want to understand how our country used to survive prior to the farming revolution during the late 1930's, if I'm remember my US History.
Local farming is the opposite of factory farming and 4-H is the epitomy of local farming – I have a lifetime of county fair experience watching proud 4-H farmers show their prized, adored animals. Of course the animals will be slaughtered – just like they would in nature. Animals in nature kill other animals for food. There are no retirment homes in the wild sheep and goats would go to live out their golden years, looking back at a lifetime of grazing in the meadow. Factory farming ruins the environment and reduces food quality and safety, but that is not what you are objecting to. Meat is not murder – meat is nature, life, the food chain.
Candice in response to your comment, "Factory farming ruins the environment and reduces food quality and safety". I'm assuming that you are referring to the confined animal livestock industry. I was raised on a broiler farm and have worked in environmental issues associated with the livestock industry for the past 12 years. Almost all of these farms are ran by families that have been there for several generations. These farmers are wonderful stewards of the land and water resources because if they are not, it would destroy their livelihood. Proper land application of manure is one of the most environmentally beneficial practices you can do. It grows crops which provides root structure and ground cover to prevent soil erosion (the #1 water pollutant in the US). It adds carbon to the soil which increases soil tilth and feeds the microbes needed to break down the nutrients into forms the crops can use. Also, it sequesters carbon in the soil, reduces the use of limited natural resources such as natural gas (which is used to produce inorganic N fertilizers), petroleum products to transport material long distances, rock phosphate, and coal (through reduced energy usage required to process inorganic fertilizers into useable forms). Have farmers over-applied manure historically, yes, but they were following the recommendations from the experts (NRCS, land grant universities) and it was before we knew all of the water quality issues we do today. I'm not saying that manure is never over applied, but I would say most of our livestock producers see their manure as a valuable resource and not a waste. "Agriculture is a business. Farming without financial motive is gardening."- Russ Parsons
Over 98% of farms are FAMILY OWNED. And factory farming is a very negative term, and it is not what you imagine it to be. It is just a type of farm that is owned by multiple groups, individuals, or companies. These "factories" often look just like the family farms that most are familiar with.
Another liberal nut job at work!! 4-H is a great organization!!!
I am about as liberal as they come and I completely support 4-H. Don't use this to attack liberals.
I was in 4-H myself from 9-19 and it was awesome. Raising animals is just one part of it, but a valuable part.
I am actually shocked by the attacks on 4-H here! If you want to eat organic, free range meat, a 4-H raised animal is the ultimate choice. I have been thinking about doing it for years, but need to get a freezer.
Seriously???
Oh Heather King. I wish that you would take the time to get involved in your local county livestock show. You should go out and visit with some of these 4-H members that you are speaking of. Have you actually met a child that has been involved in this amazing organization and that has participated in a livestock project? I am very certain that you haven' from reading all of your comments. I raised steers (castrated male bovine) for livestock shows since I was 9 years old. My parents as well as my county agent made sure that I understood the purpose of what I was doing when I sold my animal. I knew from the beginning that I was a part of something bigger than myself. I was a part of the cattle industry and I was helping the cause of every member of the agricultural society, TO FEED THE WORLD. I have always been proud to be able to aid in such a great cause.
Never was I desensitized! I loved all of the animals that I have raised! I could go through all of the pictures that I have of every single steer that I have owned and even tell you their names. These animals taught me great lessons as did the two great organizations 4-H and FFA.
To all of you that believe that these children and animals are suffering, I challenge you to go out to your local county fairs! Talk to these children and their parents. Get to know them! When you do I KNOW that you will see the greatness of these organizations and how greatly these projects make such a positive influence on these children's lives.
Heather, I respect your opinion, but I just think that you need some more education on these organizations. It is not fair to these children and more so the organizations for you to bash them and not have even experienced the TRUE puprose and mission of these projects and organizations.
I pray that each and every one of you that oppose these organizations take up my challenge and go out and experience for yourself the greatness of these children and their projects.
Thanks!
That is an ignorant and stupid comment. I suppose you are a complete vegan because otherwise you are a hypocrite. 4-H is a fantastic program and the meat they raise is about as truly organic as it comes. 4-H kids are no more "killers" than anyone else eating meat. Veganism and vegetarianism are unhealthy for kids and most adults. People are supposed to eat meat. At least 4-H kids understand where it come from. Your self-righteous attitude makes me sick.
Actually Rachel, most 4-H animals are feed corn and/or soy bean based diets that are not "certified organic" so although they are locally grown and are feed and treated better than most people, they are typically not "organic". Also, these animals are vaccinated and receive antibiotics if they are sick. In my opinion, in is much more humane to treat a sick animal with medication to make them well rather than let them suffer and sometimes die a horrible death because no treatment was administered. I personally am not into the "organic" thing but completely respect the freedom of choice of both agricultural producers and consumers who feel organically grown food is the right choice for them.
Heather,
I respect your point of view on the food chain. If you choose not to eat meat, that is fine. What you are doing in your generalization about the 4-H program is not fair to all of those young people and their advisors who spend many hours on meaningful community service projects, public speaking competitions, citizenship development programs, and skill building from hundreds of projects that are not animal related is a real disservice. 4-H is the largest out of school educational program in the United States, as well as being an international organization with many lifetime friends made by those participate. Alum of 4-H are in every business sector, military, and public sector jobs in the nation. Learning what the word "responsibility" means by completing a 4-H project and then competing with your peers to be the "best" is quite American. The motto of the 4-H program is "Too make the best, better." How can these values and responsibilities be so wrong that you would make such generalizations is perhaps out of ignorance, not intentionally. As thousands get set to visit their county and state fairs to watch the 4-H competitions this summer, it is more than just livestock and auctions - is the heart of what we want our youngsters to become, good, responsible citizens. Please do not caste stones at the entire organization because of those who choose to raise a hog, steer, chickens, etc. And at the same time, know that those who do raise the animals raise them responsibly, local meat markets slaughter responsibly, and those who purchase know they are purchasing food raised with lots of TLC, not like the industrial approach to the raising of food animals. As a 4-H alum I personally have freinds that because they sold their animals had an opportunity to get started with college. While you may disagree with those who are 4-H members who raise animals, and those chefs who may buy them, I will defend your right to disagree - that is why we live in the USA. All I ask is that you soften your generalization for all of the kids all over the country who love the 4-H program.
Have you ever been to a local 4H or FFA show. These kids get very attached to their animals and have a since of pride for what they have raised. These kids know that their animals are going to help feed America and are prideful for the animals they have raised. Having raised show animals for 11 years I am very aware of the emotional attachment that you get with these animals. You learn their personalities and get very attached. For younger kids this is then hard to understand why they have to leave but it is also a good life lesson as everything that you have in life will one day leave. As they get older they then learn and have an easier time coping with why these animals have to leave and it doesnt bother them as much on the outside. Its not " desensitized" its reality and learning that hard work and dedication is required for anything in life that is worthwhile. It makes me sad that their are so many people out there just like heather who never had to work a day in their life and have all these negative views about things they have never even been a part of. 4H is a way of life and a very good one at that. Its all part of life....no one have ever made it out of this world alive and it helps these childeren apprecieat the fact that that animal gave up something so that we can survive, and they are taught to be gratefull for that product. Why would they mistreat and "poison" something they themselves are willing to ingest?
So until you fully understand the organization don't go ranting on how these kids are being trained not to care for animlas. These animlas are their best friends and part of the joys of 4H is being able to get new animals every year and learn something new about them. Besides what else are you going to do with a 1300# steer...thats what they are made for is to feed people...where else do you think you get your food it magically appears on the shelves. Even if you are a vegeterian...some farmer out there grew the food that you like to eat and if you are a vegetarian your eating the animals food also....4H and FFA have been a big part of my life for my 21 years of living. And I would also like to clarify that I am also a female who has been involved with raising livestock all my life and charish the memories and friendships that I have gained through these organizations.
I am also currently going to college to become an agriculture teacher to help these kids grow up to understand and respect the very things this land was founded upon...if you dont like it leave this is how we have grown as a society and the everyday ranchers and farmers are not givin enough respect for the things they do to put food on your tables. So yes stock shows will always be a big part of my life and what I do, that is the biggest reason I chose this for my carreer path cause everyone knows its not for the money.
Also true country kids will be some of the most polite well mannered, well raised kids that you will come across we are still raised with morals and 4H and FFA are big parts of helping shape these kids into members of society that will make a difference!
@ Heather and Kathy....this is a direct insult on our way of life and how we were raised....don't hash on something you know nothing about!
you must be either a member of "hugs for puppies", or PETA. and quite frankly, your comments display your ignorance for all to see.
You are a fool if you think that the caring and feeding of an animal can be 'desensitize' because they know it will be sold for slaughter. These kids put their hearts into this work and many are vegetarians and all are very aware of where every bit of food they eat comes from, both meat and veg.
Today's children are far more desensitized by movies, video games and music than by anything taught by 4H.
Your ignorance is absolutely unbeliveable. Those young people are not insensitive to their animals, but they know that those animals are a way to pay for college in most instances and when you have been at the sale and handed out as many tissues as I have to those who have just sold an animal maybe you will have more insight into the subject.
My wish is that you exist on pills as you have no conception of what goes into raising the food you put in your mouth.
Heather you have the right to believe what you want and I respect that. However I dont think you should bash 4-H or FFA or any group that teaches our youth the values and responsibilty that 4-H does. My children raised cattle and swine as their projects, we kept some for breeding and others where harvested. They knew from the beginning the possibilities and accepted this as part of life. They were taught the responsibilitry of something depending on them for food and water, our animals are fed before we stop to eat thats just the way life is on a farm. When my youngest daughter went to college and got a job, she called me one day and thanked me for allowing her to learn this responsibility she learned from caring for her animals. The other college students she worked with waited for someone to tell them everything to do, she realized what needed to be done and did it without being told, her boss hated to see her leave when she finished school, he told me she was one of the best employees he ever had, they still 8 years later stay in touch. She is a Respiratory Therapist and has taken that responsibility and is still using it today when she cares for patients.
I dont know if you believe in God and the Bible but hopfully you do, we read in Genesis that God gave us dominion over the animals, they were intended for us to use for food and clothing. Naked and Hungry that is what you would be without farmers. I dont think you realize what all is made from animals beside food. Medicine, clothes and makeup are some of the many things, I dont know you but I believe you proabably use all of the things I named.
I dont have any children in 4-H at this time but I am still a leader, I guess I do have children in 4-H because everyone that I become involved with iin my county become my children. I will do my best to teach them the values, responsibility and respect that my children were taught. This respect is not only for other people but for the animals that God gave us to use for our needs. The more time children spend learning these things the less time the have to get in trouble. I challenge you to look at the statistic to see the ratio of 4-H and FFA members to non members that commit violent crimes.
Ma am, When these kids work so hard all year up feeding before going to school, coming home from school and then having to halter break the calf, THEM SELF because the parents are not aloud to help. Then the grooming of the animals,
the work of loading the cridders for weighins.It is not a cake walk, So when the animal sells, most of the kids use the money for there college fund. The plants that you and Betty eat are also living and we go out and check our plants. Maybe for a differant reason than what you think. You are depriving My animals the plants that you are eating.So, please don't give us this BS,and mightier and higher than thou crap.
As a current 4H member I resent your comments that 4H desensitizes youth. Your comments seem to contradict themselves. You state, "This group helps desensitize youngsters into having no emotional attachment to animals raised for food." However, you say you support meat products from animals who have been raised with no attatchment. I also do not understand how you know the animal is abused before slaughter which is actually a poor assumption. Most 4H members willingly participate in livestock projects to learn about the production of FOOD animals. Most 4Hers learn about the processes of food production through their own experiences rather than having it forced upon them by 4H. in fact, 4H is a great organization helping to shape the leaders of tomorrow and the people who will help feed the world. so I must say you are quite wrong in lashing out against 4H,
Shame on you Heather King, shame on you.
4-H is a very worthy organization to support. When I was in high school in the 80s I was fortunate to be part of 4-H in an urban setting. Here, 4-H led kids in community service, health, safety, automotive, photography, and culinary projects, just to name a few. Of course, kids in more rural settings also have access to agricultural and livestock education and projects.Very wide-reaching!
Interesting!