 A large herd's worth of beef cattle has passed through the Cooking Light Test Kitchen over the past 24 years, almost all of it standard-issue, grain-fed supermarket meat. But with beef, as with everything in the American diet, change is afoot. Shoppers are seeing more and more grass-fed beef in regular grocery stores, along with meat from breeds marketed as special (like Angus), and meat from organically raised animals. The local/sustainable movement has been singing the praises of the grass-fed cow, while the grain-fed industry has been under attack by food activists. |
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Yes there should realize the opportunity to RSS commentary, quite simply, CMS is another on the blog.
Go Bison! Lean and delicious. I have switched completely from beef to bison.
BUFFALO MEAT QUICK FACTS
•Slightly “sweeter” than beef. Buffalo is tasty, tender and nearly fat free.
•70% to 90% less fat than beef. (depending upon the cut of the meat).
•They are not subjected to questionable chemicals, drugs, steroids and hormones, and are not force-fed in high density pens.
•Farm-Raised on open pastures.
•Buffalo are very high in the essential fatty acids and have an excellent ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 acids.
•Higher in Iron (great for women).
•There is even a buffalo diet! Dieters claim weight loss and cholesterol levels reduced by 40-45% over about a 6 month period.
•Because of the lean qualities, it is best prepare rare to medium rare for burgers, steaks and roasts.
Cows were designed to eat grass not corn. The E-coli problem that repeatedly sickens and kills many people increasingly every year is directly caused from the grain that is fed the cattle. If they ate 5 days worth of grass it would kill the E-coli in their gut, but no, instead, big business has a meat filler soaked in ammonia that kills E-coli stuffed into your hamburgers! That doesn't sound very effective or very appetitzing does it? By the way, cattle farms are basically non existant, they are now mass production cow lots. Cows don't move very much, and they stand in their own manure half way up their legs. They are coated and caked over their bodies with it by the time they go to the slaughtering house! It is very sad how big business mistreats not only the animals but ultimately us consumers. The biggest business consumer of beef, potatoes, and many other things is Mc Donalds's. And as we all know, they don't care about our cholesterol, sodium, or sugar. Do you really think they care about E-coli? Even the FDA can not put the repeat E-coli offenders(meat packers, etc..) out of service. Why? Because, the big businesses took the FDA to court and it was ruled that the FDA did not have the right to shut down businesses even if it repeatedly tested positive for E-coli and they knew about it and shipped it out. Public health and safety are in jeapardy! That's why grass fed is better.
Whether grass or grain fed, the resources consumed to feed one cow eater could have been amply used to feed ten people. It's not hoiier-than-thou. It's about a dying planet. No Jesus is not coming soon, nor any Jewish or Muslim messiah, so start getting concerned and getting worried about the planet's dire state of affairs.
Indulging in food that causes hunger to the rest of the world, throwing your gold trinkets and jewelry to be shaped in the form of a cow and bow down to worship it and partaking of food offered to beef idolatry.
bg, In a 100% grass fed operation (and there are many of them), there is essentially nothing consumed by the cattle that could be eaten by a human and derive any nutrition. Much of the land where cattle are raised is unsuited for crops or vegetables. I'll won't argue against feedlots being a waste of resources, but pasture-based livestock production takes plant resources that could not be used by humands and turns it into valuable food.
By the way, the planet may be changing, but it is not dying. Individual species are disappearing, but the planet is not dying. It is only human arrogance to think we can kill the planet and it is even more absurd to think we can save it. Extinction and evolution are the rules, not the exception.
We have a farm: we sell beef animals:
Anything dark brown/black is classified as "angus"
Do you know what color it was before you bought it – NO! Are they "Angus" – frequently NO!
The marketing people think the color is a distinction for higher pricing and a GREAT marketing gimmick.
Get real people – and research!!!!!
All delicious
It doesn't matter what you eat, some of us wish we could survive on veggies, but we can't , or won't, whatever! Take a look at a FACTORY FARM VIDEO, see how these animals are treated, before you get to eat them, if you it doesn't bother you, you weren't much to start with! I know we are going to eat meat, but no animal should be treated like this! Now make sure you watch it all, don't be coward, I watched as much as I could, now I can't gt those images out of my mind! But I'm more angered at the way some of the people treat them before they die, go for it!
Does it really matter if the meat is grass fed or grain fed. It's still rotting corpse meat in your body. Not good.
I guess the holier than thou Vegans think they are special, because they eat vegetables, yet many of those vegetables have been sprayed with harmful chemicals!!!
I'll eat my Ribeye any day over your funky brown, rotted lettuce!
as a vegan I like my hygine like I prefer my vegetables
that brings me closer to god and makes me special, wanna sniff?
Oh god, not again.
Fact: Excessive beef production and practices are harming our planet. Greenhouse gas emissions are on par with driving vehicles.
Fact: Meat eaters experience higher rates of fatal cancers than vegetarians.
Fact: Nearly 70% of agriculture lands globally are devoted to beef production.
Fact: Most of that meat is consumed by the USA, followed by western Europe. (70% of agricultural land devoted to feed 1/6th of the world population?)
Fact: Humans are not required to eat beef. We choose to.
Make your choice, admit and own the consequences of it.
Fact: You are an idiot.
I buy my meat at local butcher shop which gets its meat from local farms and as I live in Maine sometimes the animals cannot get out to graze. But it does not come from a feedlot with diet of horomones and antibiotics and corn.
Every vegan I know is a retard.
Just sayin.
lonely? knowing one person is not everyone
"grain-fed" beef in feedlots rarely receive anything more than a 50% grain-based diet. They need forages (grasses) to maintain rumen function. As a farmer, yes I want to be as efficient as possible, but I also want to provide the best care possible to may animals. Sustainability is not just an environmental idea, it is also a business principle. If I can't make a little money raising food for consumers, I lose my livelihood (and you lose a source of food). Also, just like with ourselves, we try to avoid giving antibiotics to our animals – it can create resistance and whenever any antibiotics are given to our animals, we must wait until the withdrawal period has passed before slaughtrering them. I like that this article talks about the importance of giving consumers choices – I'm all for that, but some things it says – about getting back to concentratingon breeding and husbandry – are not realistic. I spend hours researching the genetic traits of the sires I use and matching them with dams so that the they have the best possible offspring. I use computer software to track each animal and monitor it's health, any medications given, its breeding history, weight gain and find abnormal trends that might indicate a problem before its apparent just by looking at the animal. Probably the best and truest piece of advice from this article is to buy directly from the farmer. With our traditionally raised beef (and its not even what most of you would call a true feedlot, we're too small), we spend about $2.27/lb for a whole steer's worth of meat (animal, processing, etc.). A chest freezer pays for itself with one animal. Our customers know how their meat was raised, who raised it, who slaughtered it, and IF it ever received any medications. If you'd like to save money and eat better, contact your local extension service office or Farm Bureau office and I'm sure they can put you in contact with a local farmer where you can purchase your meat (beef, pork, goat, lamb, turkeys, chickens, etc.)
Forget the whole beef argument. Eat more RABBIT. Lowest in cholesterol, great protein – and delicious. Rabbit strips are fantastic over a leafy salad (for all you vegen's who want to cheat – I won't tell if you don't).
The meat industry isn't sustainable and damages the environment. I eat meat still, but only from local farmering and ethically raised locations. That being said, if everyone in the world "consumed" (in all senses of the word) as Americans do, it would take 4 Earths to sustain life (The Empty Ocean by Richard Ellis). The truth is we don't need meat to survive, so we are farming high volume meat for our own want, not need. And if you want to use the "protein" excuse, just google "vegan bodybuilding" and get suprised. P.S. There is no good meat substitute for bacon, dang't.
I will pay higher prices for a better product. It's not just about taste. Health and environment are important to me too. Some time ago someone decided food should be cheap. Food is probably the most important purchase we make. I'd rather have a healthy meal and skimp somewhere else. You are what you eat. I don't want hormones, antibiotics and or ecoli!
Henceforth ALL self righteous VEGETARIANS who will not STFU are required to subsist solely on SOYLENTGREEN.
No,...wait.... it's made of oceanic plankton so there are SOME teensy ANIMALS in it. The Soylent Corporation is researching the issue and will get back to you with a purely vegan planktonic brew. Here's some green tea that should hold you for a while.
No,... wait....the soil the tea was grow in has WORMS in it. Maybe some worm stuff got sucked up into the tea plant. Well,....here's some fresh air to hold you for a (shorter) while.
Create something like a Soylent V-Green from vegans. Then vegans can consume it without reprisals and the PETA gods won't rain down fire & brimstone on their heads (or whatever they think will happen if they eat meat) .... WIN WIN!
As a natural body amateur builder, I eat meat every day, at least twice a day. I have never been fitter or healthier. My cholesterol, blood pressure, and blood sugar are absolutely perfect. There's nothing wrong with the meat you buy at the local supermarket. Sure, grass fed probably tastes nicer, but it's more expensive. Nothing wrong with treating yourself, but don't buy into the stupidity of "how bad the meat pumped full of hormones and antibiotics, and fed corn". The problem with American diet isn't corn fed beef, it's too much junk food and not enough exercise.
As for vegetarians and vegans, all the ones I know are sick looking. They are either fat (because they eat too many carbs and not enough protein) or sick thin (because they don't eat enough period). And yet they insist that vegetarian/vegan diet is better for you. Please!
They should feed the cows donuts...mmmmmmmmm donuts,
a good dvd about our food supply system FOOD INC check it out @ netflix
I have been raising beef for only 5 years
I am working on grass fed beef. I have worked on kill floors and restaurants. I have cut beef for a total of 12 years.
Beef in slaughter houses are handled as good as the people working them. It is hard to keep an animal totally calm when they have been transported and put in a strange pen with different animals all around. Beef are herd animals and they know there herd. AS far as grass fed beef they are healthier fir you mainly because of the C>L>A> content in the fat., Which you would consume more from raw milk or butter from grass fed cows. Grass fed beef need to be over 24 months old and on good grass. Beef start natural fat gain after 2 years of age . The last beef I slaughtered were 27 and 29 months. As far as antibiotics stay away.It does not make faster weight gain . Most by mineral that is medicated and that is small doses for a long period of time. That is crazy. Expect to pay more for quality beef and it will be for sale.You do not need a pound of beef tree times a day. Be responsible. Beef prices have not kept up with the times
I have been raising beef for only 5 years
I am working on grass fed beef. I have worked on kill floors and resturants. I have cut beef for a total of 12 years.
Beef in slaughter houses are handled as good as the people working them. It is hard to keep an animal totaly calm when they have been transported and put in a strange pen with differant animals all around. Beef are herd animals and they know there herd. AS far as grass fed beef they are healtheir fir you mainly because of the C>L>A> content in the fat., Which you would consume more from raw milk or butter from grass fed cows. Grass fed beef need to be over 24 months old and on good grass. Beef start natural fat gain after 2 years of age . The last beef I slaughterd were 27 and 29 months. As far as antibiotics stay away.It does not make faster weight gain . Most by mineral that is medicted and that is small doeses for a long period of time. That is crazy. Expect to pay more for quality beef and it will be for sale.You do not need a pound of beef tree times a day. Be responsable. Beef prices have not kept up with the times
Eat beef made from cattle that was raised on spent grain from your local brewery. It all stays local and the steaks are great....
All you need to do to ensure tenderness and flavor in grass-fed beef is age it longer. The Beef Factory can't take time for that, but the small producer can. Take a grass fed steer and age the carcass for 30 days or even more. It will be fork tender and flavorful.
It used to be that people ate meat, vegetables, fruits etc. to survive. Today we parse everything down to the smallest components for marketing purposes. Remove all the corporate marketing interests and you will al be fine, again in moderation.
When it comes to organic vegetables, why are they more expensive if they don't use chemicals normally used. there is less work and higher cost. Go figure.
If it were cheaper to grow "organic" fruits and vegetables, they wouldn't be using the pesticides and other chemicals in the first place. "Organic" is much more labor intensive and my guess is it generally produces lower yeilds per acre due to losses to pests, etc.
Again I must school you... Please go an read teh Omnivore's Dilema! It will really open your eyes to the truth!
These new industrial "organic" farms do have trouble with pests because they are still trying to farm commercially with limited crops. They need to go back to the way it was in the 1940's.. you rotate crops and animals over your entire plot of land that you farm.. you need to also have enough trees and water to sustain the land.
By rotating the crops AND the animals over the same land, you get the natural fetilzers that the pest avoid and other animals eat the pests! If done properly in an educated way, every farm working for everything like it used to be, we would all be better off..
It will never happenthough because the big food giants have figured out that corn is cheap and works as a great filler in anything.. they have their hands in the nutrient and pesticide game too!
That all sounds great except for the fact that 40s-style farming could not sustain 6 billion people. If you want to advocate that, I want you to also tell me which people deserve to starve to death so that you can believe you're somehow getting healthier food.
We get "Grain/corn" in tons of our food. Read "omnivore's dilemma" and you will notice a common thread with all the food we eat. Corn syrup, corn chips, corn flakes, corn fed beef/pork/chickens...we are what we eat...we are corn fed one way or another.
http://michaelpollan.com/books/the-omnivores-dilemma/
EVERY ONE NEEDS TO READ THAT BOOK! It really opned my eyes
Here is an interesting story how an arid land was restored by the reintroducing of a cattle:
"Savory won the 2010 Buckminster Fuller Challenge Prize of $100,000 for the Africa Center for Holistic Management (ACHM) in Zimbabwe by demonstrating that by INCREASING the number of livestock on barren land by 400% we can convert it from desert back to productive grassland".
On a Primal Wisdom blog http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/03/operation-hope-meat-is-medicine-for.html
Consuming wholesome foods (animals as well as other foods un-contaminated and raised as intended by nature) you will see illnesses, obesity, lethargy and numerous other conditions simply begin to fade away. This means less stress on our health care system, as well as happy, healthy, productive, clear-thinking people. E coli is the modern-day result of feeding and raising beef in an improper manner, for example. When WE eat improperly, we get sick–the same as animals. We're animals, too. When our food supply is messed-with we suffer. It's as simple as that.
You have two choices. Eat wholesome foods now and enjoy a happy, healthy life or eat whatever you see and use prescriptions and have numerous procedures as you age.
The reason why we're hungry, overweight and keep eating is because the foods we consume lack the appropriate nutrition our bodies need. We remain hungry because our bodies trigger our brain (appetite) to keep trying to find nutrition.....and we just keep eating.
If you want to consume foods "as intended by nature", you're going to have to start foraging for yours. Virtually 100% of the food we eat has been modified/created by man over millenia. Even fruits and veggies. Especially fruits and veggies. You and I wouldn't even recognize the truly "natural" foods that were eaten by our caveman ancestors.
abcd,
I agree that we have altered ALL of our foods.. but we can all make the decision to STOP and to try to get back to nature. Today, we can grow a garden, even if its only one plant in your window sill.. I grow a lot of my own veggies and just planted 3 new fruit trees in my yard. None will EVER be treated with toxic pesticides or the stupid NPK nutrient formula.
I do the same more or less. Love to garden. But I am also not gullible enough to believe this BS that anything manmade or man-altered is bad. Science doesn't back it up. Even with rampant obesity, people today are much healthier an live a lot longer than they did when everything was "natural".
I raise my own cattle. They are fed grass hay and corn, that's it. The corn adds flavor to the meat, but they don't really need it. Commercial lots need to "finish" the cattle in a specific time period, so they may feed supplements or other stuff to reduce cost. It also tends to get more fat development. I treat the cattle with respect and they live quite comfortably until the end.
Yahoo!
JRR,
Glad to hear you are feeding SOME grass.. but why the corn? You admit tehy don't need it.. but did you know that it is actually bad for them? Cause an un natural amount of gas that they can't expell and it kills their liver!
The delicious Kobe beef (the real stuff in Japan) is grain fed.
I don't care if they are fed Popcorn,Everyone of you is lucky that you have meat or pork to eat at all! Now STFU or I'll start passing out these Human Pills and you can fight over how they taste!
written like a boy in his parent's basement with a fist full of meat and going back and forth from CNN to porn sites
Its not about the taste. Its about how grain/corn fed beef is not good for the cow, people, or the environment.. Get a book called "The Omnivore's Dilema"
It will open your eyes to our lovely obsession with corn and beef
difference between grass fed and grain fed? gaminess. i've bought parts of cows that have been either/or. grass fed cow is leaner, but not as tasty. no matter, i just soak it in milk for a day like i do my venison and bison and voila!! yummy cow. i prefer the taste of the grain fed...but dont mind saving $$$ and getting the grass fed. at least i know which ranch my cows come from and can pick the one i want out.
Wendy,
You got it backwards.. grain, or corn fed beef is cheaper than the free range grass fed beef. Did you know that corn is actually toxic to cow? They are fed hormones to make their bodies except it! It bloats them so much that often time a hose must be shoved down thier throats to get rid of the gas or the cow will suffocate and die! Further, the corn messes up their liver so they won't live past 2 years old! THAT is why they are pumped with other hormones to make their meat ready faster!..
I'm an omnivoure.. but try to eat right
Ah, so now it's the hormones that magically make the cows digest the corn. Please review your high school biology. And as someone who has consumed copious amounts of fiberOne bars, I can assure you that massive gas can find it's way out. And we all know that cow farts account for like 15% of greenhouse gases, so we know cows can fart.
What? I am not sure that this should even be considered an article? It doesn't actually say anything more than a title- the debate exists. There is literally ZERO content. This is absurd.
this is pretty common for CNN, and the debates go off the rails pretty fast
i've had both grass fed and grained. there is no comparison, grained beef is by far tastier and easier to cook. if anyone cares, beef has changed considerably over the last 20 years. it is much leaner then it has been and continues to become leaner. most people are misinformed about the beef industry and the nutritional content of beef. this conversation is an interesting one and would take several posts to get most of the correct information across. as for me its grain fed all the way.
You poor misguided fool...
While I agree that grain fed can be tastier.. you really need to try FREE RANGE.. its not the same. Corn is fed to the cows to fatten them up.. not make them leaner! Corn bloats their stomach and this can suffocate them.. corn also kills their livers so they won't live past 2 years old
I've been educated more by these posts on here than from the article itself. It's amazing how America carries on the idea of being "organic" and making sure you pay the extra bucks for it (WHOLE FOODS, TRADER JOE's, etc. which is ridiculously expensive) My family is from Haiti (when it was the Pearl of the Caribbean!) and 'organic' was something that was natural, not a fad. Why should I have to pay more for an apple that contains less contaminants?? Oh yeah, becasue it's actually cheaper to produce mass product of crap! Interesting to see the grain vs. grass debate. What will it take for people to see that what we are consuming is not good for us? Your child should NOT have breasts at age 7!!! Wake up people, we're being duped!!!
Ah yes. Messed-up hormone production. It leads back to consumption of unwholesome foods.
What is up with this two link article path? Are you trying to get more page views CNN? Cut it out or I will stop coming here.
Sadly, this is all about fuel corn-you call it grain! This monstrous creation is the bane of our existence. Paid for with tax dollars, polluting and e-coli dangerous. Get used to eating food again. Yes this fuel corn tastes better, but makes you obese and very sick. Cows, chicken and pigs raised on fuel corn are just plain dangerous. CNN-omission and deceptions are still lies and you continue promote your greedy, uncaring global corporate sponsors, ignoring our suffering citizens! Journalism is a gift-use it wisely.
Just FYI, Dutch Shell, Monsanto, ADM and Pfizer are working with our entire political system to hide this. Monsanto bought BlackWater just to use machine guns and helicopters to do Agra business. ADM gets paid by the US tax payer to grow and process and dump fuel corn into everything. Patented, GMO, RoundUp ready, aluminum proof and sterile mono-cultured seed crops keep prices cheap, people fat and provide the multinational Pharmas with a life time of profits. McD burgers, HFCS, ethanol, are all created from dictator controlled, Middle Eastern oil! Good luck. (Ignore the dopes who ignore the facts, as they love to blog and promote the confusion they are manipulated into by the elite globalists)
Monsanto bought blackwater? Xe is a privately held company...
Facts don't matter to those with an agenda. If it fits their agenda, they assume it's true. If it is counter to their agenda, it must be false.
Sounds like Tea Partiers to me! C'mon! Join the party over here!!!
I'd follow you anywhere, just don't speak
not unbelievable however
but all the same, lay off the crack pipe
Careful, your hysterical paranoia is showing. Besides being factually inaccurate, your rantings indicate that you may have a problem. Off your meds?
I am DEFINATELY NOT a conspiracy theorist.. but what rnp1 is saying IS the truth! if you people took the time to educate yourselves and stop listening to the TV so much you might actually have an idea of what is going on around here
Google the owner of Blackwater. Report back and tell us who it is. Try to use reliable sources.
giving out assignments accross the internet are we
wow you are such the manager of people you have never met
all beef was once grass fed years ago, grain fed is the weird change.
If your refering to Michal Pollands argument that 50 – 60 years ago all cattle were grass fed that is entirely wrong. When the Shanendoah Valley in Virginia was settled in the 18th century farmers could grow a lot of corn, but there were only two ways to get their product to market, turn it into wiskey and carry it, or feed it to your cattle and walk them over the mountain. As long as cattle have been bred, they have been fed grains. Corn, wheat, or whatever has been avalible.
I think if you check history a little closer, you will find the corn not made into whiskey was fed to hogs, not cattle, and it was hogs they drove down to the Peidmont for market.
I guess there were only hogs in the Shanendoah during the 18th centruy. My mistake. LOL
No, Timmy, I didn't say there were only ogs in the Shenandoah in the 18th centrury. I said they fed corn to hogs and drove hogs to the Piedmont markets. They also drove cattle down there, but the cattle were not corn fed. Even 200 years ago farmers knew hogs were much better converters of corn to meat than were cattle. Whiskey and hogs were the two most efficient ways to utilize corn. Beleive it or not, there were also turkey drives to get from remote farming regions to city markets. I don't know if the turkeys were fed grain or not. Could have been.
The first time I tasted grass-fed beef was in Argentina. Wow, it was yummy! Several years later my family had the opportunity to raise a steer on my grandfather's farm, which we eventually butchered and stored in a meat locker. That animal only ate grass and wasn't stuffed with grains at the end. If I have the choice, I'd go with the grass fed beef any day.
The reason your meat tasted better from the locker was because it was dry aged for around two weeks. I get mine aged for three if I can. From there it is immediately frozen. Store bought meat is not dry aged and who knows how long it's been sitting in the fridge.
what a bunch of liberal idiots. Just eat and shut up or pay out the nosie for smoke & mirrors, it just makes the seller charge more and the buyer feel good about paying more. Captiallism at it finest. I work in the industry so I know!
bbbbbbbbbut I don't eat meat, so nobody should!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I bet you eat yeasty fist
Great Link for more grass-fed benefit information including were to purchase around the US!
http://hrtlandhippie.blogspot.com/2010/10/happy-cows-come-from-grass.html
cows are not meant to eat corn; it makes them sick, causes liver damage, etc. That's part why they are injected with antibiotics. Beef factories are terrible, unhealthy, unneeded, and just wrong
Yes, because antibiotics are designed to prevent or repair liver damage, right? Uh huh.
No, they kill bacteria. Bacteria is more prevalent in feed lots regardless what food they are fed.
Gary, where do you get your info? Are you just making this crap up. Do you know what an antibiotic is?
I'm more concerned about why grains are supposedly so good for humans to consume (6-10 daily servings suggested by the FDA) yet they are so bad for the cattle and pigs that we eat. Grains make cows/pigs fatter/bigger, yet we are supposed to be healthier when we load up on them. Does anyone see a conflict there? Kobe cows get to eat gummy bears and they taste better. I really don't care what my beef ate as long as it isn't poisonous or another cow, and it's tastes good with my baked potato.
Oh yes, and of course GMO foods are causing cancer rates to skyrocket.
No, wait. Cancer rates peaked something like 10yrs ago and have been dropping a little. Scratch that BS argument, too.
I love it. On the one hand cows fed grain gain weight and fat very quickly. On the other hand, you have people who claim that cows can't digest grains. Really? So then how, exactly are they putting on the weight? If they can't digest the food they are given, they will lose weight. Simple concept.
Oh, wait. So antibiotics make them digest the food, right? LOL. I'd love to hear someone explain how that works. Antibiotics have nothing to do with digesting food. They get them because they are in close proximity to so many other animals that a bacterial outbreak would be devestating.
If you like grass fed beef, that's fine. Eat it. But don't make up BS arguments so you can feel all high and mighty about it.
And obese people are obviously digesting their food, so what they're eating must all be good for them, right? I'm wondering why more people are not concerned about the growth hormones cattle routinely get pumped full of. The reasons other countries reject our beef are the hormones and excessive antibiotics, not what they are fed!
Thanks for the reply that had absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
what exactly did you say?
The ability to digest something and it being good/healthy for you are two completely different things.
I read Omnivores Dilemma....
I saw Food Inc....
I read the China Study.....
Woo....freaking....hoo. Did you read "STFU: A Novel"? Or maybe you caught that new documentary, "STFU: A Documentary"? Reading one book or seeing a documentary on something does not make you an expert on said topic. If you want to make a change in your personal life based on reading a book or watching a movie then by all means, have at it! And in the meantime, stop toting all left and right wind "entertainment" as "your" fact sheet.
STFU.
Well said!
That's been brewing all morning :)
So should I read 8 or more books that tell me that 2 + 2 = 4 before I decide it's true, or would it be OK if I realized that that was true the first time I read it?
Go ahead and read all the books you want. Everybody has an opinion and opportunities to express them. The difference is any math book you read is going to tell you 2+2=4 and anything else is a lie – or a joke. Maybe treat your "what should I eat" books the same way: add everything together and find out for yourself if it's true.
I already do that.
Alls I'm sayin' is: Look at both sides of the story before passing judgement.
What if the book said that 2+2=5? Would you agree with it then? Would you just "realize" that it was wrong? Or would you accept that it was right?
I always look at every sides of every story. There is no other way to make informed choices.
I agree. You still didn't answer my questions though... :)
"Grass- vs. grain-fed beef: What's the diff?" This is easy to answer. FLAVOR.
Hmm, there's actually alot more differences between then two than flavor. Do any of you people who are naive enough to think there's nothing wrong with feeding animals something unnatural to them, then ingesting it into our own bodies, ever watch the news?? Or read it? Ever notice the vast amounts of recalls associated with the products these types of plants put out? Or ever get suspicious about these huge farm corporations who will not allow cameras or access to their plants?? Personally I do. Unfortunately most of American society is apathetic and could care less about how much the government (unless it's a party you don't agree with) or corporations f**k us over. Which is precisely what they want and how they continue to operate essentially unchallenged.
This all depends on where you get your beef from. If you shop at Safeways, Kroger and the likes the meat is at the lowest quality of "choice" rating that there can be, everything comes from a plant already sliced and packaged. You have to pay good money for getting a superior product. I get all my meat from Whole Foods, they have independent providers who don't allow corn in ANY of their meats and they are all kept on vegetarian diets. If you go to one you can actually see butchers breaking down huge beautiful pieces of beef, grass-fed or grain-fed really makes no difference to me. As long as it tastes good and i get what i pay i could care less if its grass or grain fed.
Hate to break it to you but Whole Foods cattle are slaughtered in the same plant as in-organic meats. How do you really know which is which. You can go to Kroger or wherever and get a great steak. Choice meat is choice meet. I do like Whole Foods concept, I looked into working with Whole Foods myself, but I dont like the idea of relying on one company to market my product. They could too easliy change thier purchacing agreement and destroy my buisness. I think it is good to pay farmers a premium for producing a premium product.
When you actually know what your talking about you can speak. How about you do your research next time before you try to chime in with the rest of the class. You can trace every single piece of meat at whole foods from farm to store. Next time you want to say something make sure you know what your talking about.
Yeah, I know what I'm talking about. Whole Foods uses this same packing plant that I send my cattle to. Like I said in the post above, I was in discussions with the Whole Foods people about this process. I'm not selling to them now but I may in the future. My point is there is no way for you to know that Whole Foods meat is organic unless you or a rep of the company watches my cattle being slaugtered. Which they dont.
timmy, just stop man, you keep making yourself look bad, The CCOF (california certified organic farmers) monitors all practices for every farm, plant, distribution center and store to make sure that if something says organic it IS organic. So sorry, Chefs 2 – Timmy 0
YOU look bad.
100% grass-fed meats, from any kind of critter, are the most perfect food for man.
Grass-fed meats will supply 100% of your body's nutrient requirements in perfect balance.
Grass-fed meat is the ONLY food type you can eat exclusively and still have optimal body function.
"Grass-fed meat is the ONLY food type you can eat exclusively and still have optimal body function."
So I will have "optimal body function" eating grass fed steaks for all 5 meals of my day? No fruits, veggies, carbs, etc. I find that VERY hard to believe.
Grain feed vs grass fed,is there really a problem here?When graas is plenty by all means feed the cows grass,if it's not feed them grain,is there a diff in flavor? I don't think the consumer can tell the diff.
Clearly you have never eaten grass fed beef before, but you had to make a comment acting like you know the difference.
Grain fed tastes better than grass fed (But probably not a noticeable difference for people who rarely eat beef). Gummy bear fed beef tastes the best. The more fat a cow can gain (Marbling of the fat within the steak) the better the flavor. We like salty/fatty tastes, and that's what you get from a cow that's been fed grain/gummy bears vs grass.
All supermarket meat tastes like shit. But I'll keep eating it, one way or another.
Grass fed beef? YUCK!!! I grew up on a farm and all our cattle were grass fed and the meat always tasted gamey. Nearly ruined me on beef. Good thing our farm went belly up or I'd be a vegan.
You all do realize that grain is the seed of a grass? so yes – cows eat grass out on the prairie. They also eat the grain – out on the prairie. "Grain" comes from the cereal grasses. In reality, cows eat what cows eat.
And if you think it's all sunshine and hapiness out on the prairie for the cows – you need to get out more.
(sarcasm) No! No! No! We all know cows can't digest grains. They pick out the grass seeds, mix some of their manure into the dirt, and plant them so that there will be peace on earth and harmony among all it's creatures.
(serious) You make a good point. My guess is very few people know that most if not all grains are simply seeds from grass plants. And the plants cows eat out at pasture often have seeds on them.
I am a rancher. I will eat whatever I like, whenever I like, however I like. I am sick and tired of new age hippies attacking my rights as a human every time I turn around. You all live the way you want to live and let me live to my standards. CNN, once again great job on posting information that is more harmful than any ounce of beef fat, cow flatulence, or gallon of diesel per acre of grain. I am dumber for having read your article.
Hey man, nobody is saying you can't live how you want. You should live however you want. I would never stop anyone from eating a very tasty grain fed beef product. I will undoubtedly eat grain fed beef again, especially when I can get prime.
However, the fact is that 100% grass fed animals are a healthier option. It's undeniable and all people should have access to that information so they can make informed decision about the food they consume.
Truth be told all Americans would be doing themselves a favor by learning everything they can about the food they eat, where it comes from, and how it is produced, rather than just blindly accepting it's OK.
Who gives a shit what you are.
Ok, don't have time to read all the posts. Has anybody done the People Eating Tasty Animals joke yet? <= Well, here it is in any case.
Hey, I'm Chaz
Grain fed beef has superior taste...grass fed like swamp...there's an after taste that is similar to that of gator. But, Kobe' is the best. Second, organic, grain fed from the States.
If you can't tell the difference between grain fed and grass fed, you shouldn't be eating beef.
You are a complete tool for leaving such a comment. Get off your high horse j@ck@ss.
Reading some of these comments about range fed beef and free range chickens, it seems that we should all go back to being hunter/gatherers so we will appreciate eating the few scrawny tough horned bovines we might catch. Wildebeast – oh yummy. Ever wonder why Texas Longhorns are only "novelty" animals ? Eat a steak from one, you'll understand.
Exactly!. Thank-you kind sir.
I love how all these vegetarians are saying everyone who eats meat is going to die of a heart attack. Just like all the morons who claim that everyone who smokes is going to die of lung cancer. You folks really need to get over yourselves.
On a lighter note, I am definitely a carnivore. My mouth started watering as soon as I saw those two huge hunks of meat hanging there. Mmmmmm........
Finally! Sanity on the posting! From one omnivore to another, thank you!
You're a carnivore? So you only eat meat?
LOL, I knew someone was going to bring that up. No I'm not a carnivore, I just like the sound of it lol.
Read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" by Michael Pollan. An excellent book for us Omnivores.
Google the Omnivore's Delusion. Its a really good short read.
Cows are meant to have a grass fed diet, it is what they ate LONG before industry came along. Unfortunately, it's about the product these days and how much beef can be made from a single cow. So grain is fed to cows to fatten them up, producing more marbeling, more product, not to mention antibiotics and hormones that they are fed to increase size and avoid infections in the animals. Grass fed beef is actually leaner and can be compared in terms of lean-ness to chicken breast. I would highly recommend that people look more into organic, locally grown, and grass fed beef. Your health will be thanking you in the long run.
Animals are tasty eithre way so give me some beef
The real problem with meat is all the hormones and crap they put into the beasts. Not to mention the living conditions. would you really store your meat in trash can before you cook it? Because that is how most of our meat is raised. I am not tree hugging hippie but I want my meat clean and free of hormones and antibiotics. they would not need so many darn antibiotics if they just kept their living quarters sanitary. I hate the abuse of my food. I can give a hoot about vegan. I just don't want my food to be treated like crap before it gets to my plate.
As for the whole grain vs grass. What would/did these animals eat before we started feeding them grain?? Just asking. I would imagine more grass than grain. I don't think they are made to deal with grain. Look it up.
There is no difference, they both give you heart disease and cancer.
Not true.
Aaron=@sshole.
yes it is, no its not, yes it is, not its not
yes it is, no its not, yes it is, not its not
yes it is, no its not, yes it is, not its not
yes it is, no its not, yes it is, not its not
YOU two sound like our government
Sorry highermath.
You start out being respectful but some people aren't worth the effort. For instance, look at the post abopve that Ahole, I mean Aaron is responding to. The guy says that both give you heart disease. Which is obviously true. Eating red meat is not as good for you as leaner meats, like fish. Yet Aaron posts something as silly as "not true". There is no basis for what he says, he offers no proof. Just the Pee Wee Herman defense.
Meat tastes just like the food you feed it. Grass is best, but if you feed the product sour grass the meat will be just as bad. grain should be used only to finish the process. 4 weeks max.
One thing is for sure, whatever goes in has an impact on the final product. If the input is crap, so is the product.
Much like the products grown in your garden. Bad soil, bad vegies. people deserve their own choices. And the issues associated with such decisions.
It is impossible to adequately "grain finish" a beef animal in 4 weeks. Period.
Not sure where you get your info. But my family has been doing it for nie on 50 yrs. But to each their own. the angus beef we raise is the best. well marbled for taste and sufficiantly lean to pass the heart test. that is how we roll, period.
I try to eat only things that smell like fish. There are only two things in the world that smell like fish. . . and one of them is fish !
If it smells like fish, It's risky business.
Fish has too much mercury and contaminants.
This is an OLD joke . . . but everyone is so serious nowdays. Lighten up !
I thought it was funny! If we can't laugh, we might as well give up on the world.
Some of what I post is true. This is !
I can tell you this. All the people who proclaim how great grass fed or open range beef are must never have had any grainfed, midwestern beef. It is more tender, juicier and just tastes better.
Chum, I ranched in Missouri for over 20 years before moving to Idaho. For the first 40 years of my life I ate Midwestern corn-fed beef and thought it was great. And then about 15 years ago we finished some cattle just on pasture to see what it would be like. I was pretty skeptical. But it turned out to be the best beef I had ever eaten in my life and since that time we have only finsihed on pasture and that is what we eat. Occasionally when I eat at a restaurant I will get a steak but it is very rarely (1 in 10 maybe) ever as good as eating at home. As I have emphasized in earlier posts, though, we finish cattle typically to low choice grade. A lot of grass fed is low select to select.
So are you saying that the lower grades of beef cuts are generally grass fed?
That would make sense.
I haven't eaten grass fed beef or what is advertised as "free range" beef for quite some time so my actual recollection of the taste is sketchy, if not hard to descibe. I do rememeber that it was definitely leaner and a little tougher. My wife and I decided that we would stick with regular beef from then on.
For the heck of it we may buy some grass fed beef to try again. Whats the worst that could happen?
On a side note, several months back, a particular gallon of milk we had bought had a distinct taste of grass. My mother, an old farm girl from way back, said that the cow had eaten too much grass. When questioned, she said that was what her uncles, whom both raised dairy cows, always said when their milk tasted like grass.
Most of the beef local to me is grass fed. I like it just fine, but I've been eating it for awhile. You do tend to just be more careful cooking it, but it can be tender and juicy, and if you like it undercooked or rare like I do, it definitely has a good flavor.
But, I do agree that if you're used to fatty, juicy, melt-in-your mouth corn fed beef, it's going to disappoint you. You almost can't compare the two tastes, but you can enjoy them separately for different reasons and in different ways.
Grass fed is leaner, taste better, period.
Just feed 'em a combo of A-1 Sauce, onions, garlic, butter and salt & pepper. To the vegans I say, "If God hadn't meant us to eat animals he wouldn't have made 'em so darn tasty".
The fact you believe in supernatural and fairy tales doesn't surprise me.
Funny how things that are so damn tasty give you heart disease and cancer.
Oh and one more thing, a lot of beef at the store is coming in new packaging that says 100% vegetarian diet. Well guess what, that includes corn and grain. It is just feed lot beef with misleading labels.
@sshole!
Shouldn't they *always* have a vegetarian diet..??! (whether grain or grass).
Bottom line: grain kills the cows which is why they need the antibiotics to survive. On top of that they are packed into those feedlots and stand in their own feces for the entire time they are there. That is why e-coli is a problem.
Grass fed, free range beef is a superior product which will not give you e-coli.
I don't know where you got any of that, but it isn't true. Grain doesn't kill beef. The rationale for the anti-biotics, and I disagree with this reason, is that there is an assumption that if one gets sick they all will. This is due to the close quaters they live in. And yes you can still get e-coli from grass fed beef. If grain causes e-coli how does it get on vegetables?
Grass fed cattle are probably happier, that is fine. But there is absolutely no disputing the fact that grain fed cattle are juicier and more tender. Taste is an opinion, I concede that. I like grain fed.
Sorry it is true, if it wasn't I would not have said it. I heavily research all of the foods I eat. Beef is not designed to eat corn and grain, period.
Feel free to remain ignorant, I won't stop you, just don't ask me to join you.
Aaron, there is a difference between you believingsomething to be true and it actually being true. I was polite in my response to you and you took the low road.
All you have done with your post and your other ridiculous nonsense about free range eggs tasting better is prove how stupid you are.
I don't care how much "research" you claim to have done. I live in a rural community and have been on cattle farms. it is the big "factory" farms that have the problems with e-coli. The small farmer with a few hundred head of cattle rarely if ever have health issues with their cattle.
Now go back to reading your book and acting like a know-it-all snob, who truthfully doesn't know jack sh*t!
You just have to pity the truly ignorant like Chumlee.
an animal whose sole purpose is to go to slaughter when it reaches the ideal weight
happiness?
From the same company that tells you to have a happy period.
as a husband that is my wish every month
I politely disagree with you and you call me ignorant?
F*ck you @sshole!
BTW, you are still wrong!
Nope, I am right and you are ignorant. Deal with it.
Sorry, but NO. Since you claim to research this stuff, go and do that and report back with the truth. We'll be waiting.
Meanwhile i think I'll go to Kroger tonight and pick up some nice grain fed, Angus beef steaks. The tastiest steaks one can find.
LMAO I don't bother wasting my time with people like you. You can do your own homework, or you can remain ignorant. I know I am right, I don't need you to confirm it for me.
Nope, I'm right, you're wrong. Next!
Seriously though, tghe same argument holds true for wild game, like say deer. The midwest, where we have abundant corn fields, produces the biggest and best tasting venison by far. Know why? Because they eat corn you idiot!
Aaron and Chumlee are gonna fight
Look up E coli recalls in the United States. Very few cases of E coli are actually traced back to meat. The vast majority of E coli contaminations are from vegetables.
Humans aren't supposed to eat so much meat. There is too much junk in animal meat anyway. Just go vegan. Your future colon will thank you.
I use Colon-Blo everyday, so it doesn't matter what I eat
after I quit huffing, a lot of objects quit talking to me
I just use hot sauce to clean my colon.
Being a vegan requires supplementation in order to maintain health. That alone proves it is not the ideal choice. I'm not saying don't be one, just don't make me, because I will never even consider it.
Aaron=@sshole
dont eat it;meat is acidic; you need an alkaline and oxygen body for optimal health; and b12 is the only thing you get from it you can supplemnt that else where;eat fish and you get all the trace minerals that you need;but dont eat to much of the top of the food chainie tuna mercury; and eat your salads and friut all alkalining; and get rid of anything in a box or a bag and your body will love you
Being a vegan requires NO supplementation AT ALL. This INCLUDES B12 AND IRON.
100% wrong.You cannot get everything yo need from a vegan diet. This is an undeniable, unarguable, scientifically proven, fact.
Aaron does research, you should listen to him. He'll tell you exactly how smart he thinks he is. He isn't very smart though. Plus he's rude to boot..........I bet his wife is ugly. At least he has that going for him.
It's a scientific fact Vegan is the healthiest way to eat. Humans have known this for thousands of years. It's only in the last century have people been eating so much animal meat. Eat the way you want. Just stop posting nonsense, Aaron.
Sorry Boka you are not correct.
You have no way of knowing what the hell a cow ate other than someone else's word for it. This is just like the idiotic "organic" food label. People who charge you extra for that label are laughing at you for being such idiots. I know for a fact that a major national grocery chain pulls the exact same items off of a pallet and randomly sticks the pretty green "organic" tag on a few of the items just to charge extra per pound. "Free range" chickens and their eggs should be nauseating to everyone. if you've ever seen the crap a roaming chicken will eat, you will know what I mean.
Sorry, free range eggs are superior to sweat shop eggs all day long. The taste is absolutely amazing.
I bet you say things like "fabulous" and "to die for" don't 'cha Sally?
You and the boyfriend going to wine country this weekend? Probably listen to Culture Club, Wham and Elton John all the way there with the top down on your little BMW? Booty pirate!
I don't agree. I've eaten both and they taste the same. Some lady here at work raises chickens. I buy eggs from her cause she's a co-worker. (And she sells them cheaper than any supermarket.) They taste EXACTLY the same as any other egg I have eaten. I would bet you could not tell the difference in a blind tasting. You'd have a 50/50 chance of getting it right.
Actually, I agree with Aaron, here. At least if you get free range local eggs. I thought like you did, Milk, that eggs are eggs. Then a friend's mother who raises chickens started giving me eggs, and the taste was incredible. I can definitely taste the difference, which is unfortunate because unless she gifts them to me, they are at least twice as expensive as store bought eggs.
It may be a matter of differing taste buds, though. Some people can taste the differences between certain foods that others cannot. There's a lot out there that people tell me is so much better than the more common product that I cannot taste the difference in. Eggs, however, I can. And once you taste how good fresh, local, free-range eggs can be, it's hard to switch back. At least for me.
I can't speak for beef, but I recently have a wild boar pork chop. It was unbelievably good! Probably the best pork chop I ever had in my life! If the difference in beef is that strong, then sign me up for grass-fed.
My Family only eats range feed animals Beef, sheep, Chickens from a trusted source, my parents farm) not because I think it's necessarily better product, I don’t trust the food&drug agency on the East cost to keep us safe.
I don't think it has anything to do with Grain VS Grass feed but its about that the hormones and antibiotics that is associated with grain feed animals in order fatten them up on an accelerated scale for a higher profit. (profit is not a bad thing)
Scale back the heard numbers, take away the hormones and antibiotics they receive, balance out the diet between grain and grass and you will still get a leaner product that is just as tasty. The down side to this getting the beef industry to re-think/ re engineer its business practice and the cost for the product would sky rocket to a point that most Americans would not be able to afford to buy the product.
It's obscene to see how these poor animals are being fed a diet of grass.
They must be wicked stoned all the time.
Dave's not here.
People who think this an America-only issue are sorely mistaken. Most of the other big meat eating countries – Australia and Argentina prominent among them – have moved to predominantly grain-fed beef as well.
For better or worse, grass-fed is just too inconsistent for me. I've had fair ones, and I've had awful ones. Maybe my tastes developed with grain-fed and I just can't go back. Good producers with good stock and good finishing practices can get good results from grain-fed beef, whether it's "natural" or not.
The reason Australia and Argentina are moving toward more feedlots is for the export market, not domestic consumption. Argentina is also facing the issue of too much of its good grasslands have been converted to grain production for ethanol. Last year, for the first time in its long history of beef production, Argentina was a net importer of beef.
Only think i like to do with meat is beat it.
I concur with this deep statement of life philosophy.
tree falls in the woods and all that
Have you met Aaron? He's a whacker too.
Consumers reject grass fed beef in the meat case because the fat is yellow rather than white. The yellow color comes from large amounts of vitamin A stored in the fat. It's the same reason free range chicken egg yolks are almost orange. My personal experience is that the difference in flavor comes more from what plants the cow is pasturing on. "Grass fed" is almost a euphemism for the variety of plants available in most pastures, some of which have very strong flavor.
There are many areas of the West where pasture finished cattle would be practical, if consumers would buy the meat.
Yeah, I heard the actually feed chickens dandelions to give the meat that yellow color that consumers look for.
My issue, i cant cook grass fed, and most restaurants cant. It is too tough no matter how slow i cook it and it is very expensive, i cnat afford to throw out anymore meat of this price.
Grain fed is easy to cook and with good quality meat little can go wrong.
In Switzerland the grass fed meat is great, they have cows in pastures their claim to fame, i wonder if we just do it wrong here, USA, and thats our issue.
That just mean you are not a good cook in the first place. I can, and do, cook grass fed rib-eye's and NY strips to absolute perfection. In fact, if I did not tell my guest it was grass-fed, they would never know. They just love them.
Did you marinate them in your special sauce you freak? The kinds of guests someone like you would have are probably used to the taste of c0ck and @ss.
It's time to educate ourselves. "Grass-Fed" means that cattle graze in a pasture up until the last two months before slaughter after which they are fed only corn. The "nothing but corn" diet these last two months removes the benefit of the grasses they've consumed previously–including Omega 3 fatty acids. The next time you're in a grocery store and they have grass-fed meats stocked, ask the butcher if the animal was "Grass-finished". If they say "yes", they're lying. If you truely want a "grass-finished" meat, you'll have to find a local farmer who subscribes to "Grass-Finished" practices. Fact: cattle in this country are fed corn because there is an astronomical amount of corn produced and the way to get rid of it is to feed it to cattle. It's cheap to do so. To all those who posted saying that grain fed tastes better or is more tender, they're dead wrong. We're the only country that feeds cattle corn. Brazil is known for their quality meats and I've never heard anyone complain about their steaks. Do you know why? They're grass-fed and grass-finished my friends. Let's wake up and start farming with more healthful and sustainable practices. Cattle were never meant to eat corn.
Bison tastes better than beef. I would assume they're grass fed. But maybe not if they're commercially raised for their meat now.
Joe, I'm sad to report the majority of bison sold in the US is grain finished. There are some fully grass-fed bison outfits around, but it not the majority. All but a handful of Ted Turner's thousands of bison are feedlot finished. Ted personally prefers the corn finished flavor.
Wrong! The grass-fed beef I eat never sees a single kernel of corn, end of story.
I bet you like corn speckled sewer trout, don't you?
It depends on the farmer Aaron.
You write in a pretty authoritative tone for one who doesn't know what he's talking about. You must subscribe to the old saying of "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with bull___t".
"Grain finishing", if properly done, takes significantly longer than 2 months – try doubling that. The animals aren't fed "only corn" while they're being 'grain-fed', either. You are either very uninformed or you are a liar. Either way, you're doing a wonderful job of spreading misinformation.
Try rereading what I wrote "What?" You're correct in saying they're not only fed corn. Woops! I forgot the antibiotics and tens of other ingredients that are mixed and fed to them before slaughter. You say it takes more than two months to feed them on corn? Ok. Thanks for proving my point that cattle are moved from feeding on grass to something they're not supposed to be eating. Where's your experience/research from?
Who cares about the flavor. The important thing here is that cows' stomachs are not meant to process heavy grains. In order to be grain fed you have to pump cows full of antibiotics.
RIGHT NOW on CNN there is an article about a super bacterial infection that is completely resistant to all but one antibiotic running rampant in southern California. I can almost guarantee you that bacteria is a result of antibiotic use in industrial farming. We will pay the price for this eventually. People will either wise up and fix this or biological mechanics will make us pay for it the hard way.
I think if you actually look into the increase in antibiotic resistant bacteria you will find it is attributable primarily to overuse of antibacterial hand cleaners and doctors prescribing antibiotics whenever a patient or parent demand it. Prescribing antibiotics for viral infections is a total wastte of time, money, and product but they do it anyway.
Even though we do not use any subtherapuetic antibiotics in our ranching operation and I am not trying to protect the conventional beef industry, people should know about 98% of the antibiotics used in animal agriculture are not used in human healthcare. Over 90% of the antibiotics used in beef production are what are known as rumen modifiers and all they do is change the balance of microbial population in the rumen in order to favor starch digestion. (i.e. make it so they can eat corn more efficiently).
If you really want to fight bacterial resistance to antibiotics, throw away the hand cleaners and quit going to the doctor.
turn the cattle loose. where do they go? to the corn field or grass pasture? it takes a good fence to keep beef cattle out of a corn field. what's natural? the going trend is turn em loose right?
Turn a human loose in a mall food court and where are they going to go? To the health food booth or McDonalds?
as much as free choice is nice, we actually don't have it
think seat belts, smoking, yelling fire in a theater
asking which they would choose, health food or McDonalds and saying which should they choose is the point, not simply asking which WOULD they choose... we might eat candy all day (as my 5 year old surely would) if we could make any choice we want sans reason
AMERICANS WERE ALL ABOUT convenience.... too bad. all lthis healthy stuff takes work. Because,,,, our stores do not supply anymore cause we like it quick and processed. We wonder why all this sickness.
I have been told by a farmer were suppose to eat chicken and beef that eat what they were born to eat. If this happend we would get a lot of our vegtables through eating our meat. Do you know cows love sweat potatos
I thought they were all forced to eat corn.
I have only eaten grass fed beef for all of the reasons above. Rampant cancer has been attributed to the hormones that are added to inhumanely raised, feedlot animals. In fact, 50% of all pets will get cancer and it is directly linked to the cheap animal food, often from downed cows. The same people who think smoking is disgusting will go to McDonald's and down a quater pounder that is almost as bad for you as smoking!
I am a beef producer and have been producing pasture-finished beef for about 15 years. There is a difference between common 'grass-fed' and 'pasture-finished'. We finish cattle on pasture to USDA Choice grade without any grain or other supplements. The fat content of the steers or heifers (not cows) is equivalent to the amount of fat in a feedlot finished steer, but it is very different fat composition. Our beef and feedlot beef cook identically, but taste very different and affect your metabolism very differently. Also, no hormones or subtherapuetic antibiotics used. Never have, never will.
People in this country need to get over the 'Big Fat Lie'. Sugar and refined carbs is what is driving the obesity epidemic, not fat. Especially not animal fat, the consumption of which has dropped by about 40% since 1960. Consuming the right kind of fat is essential to being healthy and at the appropriate weight. If you consume fat, the body does not want to store fat. It utilizes it as necessary. However, elevate your blood sugar with sugar and grain-based carbs and your body will try to store all the fat it can.
Pasture-based dairy, beef, lamb, and other ruminant products are some of the healthiest food around. Get over the 'Big Fat Lie'!
Good post. Thanks for that information. But how do we tell if it's pasture finished beef or not?
I agree about the fat. There was a couple that I was friends with several years ago that went on the "cave man" diet. Which was mostly meat, baked broiled or boiled but not fried, and water. They lost 25 lbs each in 30 days. It's the carbs that put fat on you.
If at all possible, the best thing to do is to get to know 'your' farmer. Visit their farm or ranch and learn first hand what they do. That is where you get the highest level of trust and reliability.
Second best is join a CSA where the organization maintains an in-house certification program or verification of the production practices used by the cooperating farmers and ranchers.
Unfortunately, having a reliable pasture-finished meat supply in local supermarkets will the last place this takes hold in an honest way.
Grass fed meat with no GMO's. Soy free and non GMO fed chickens we eat. Soy free fed chickens that lay eggs. Everything in our diet has soy. Not good! I have been on this. Research all this soy, GMO's. Grass fed is so good for you our children. Too much of anything is just so bad. Our bodies need the real deal. Throw in "milk" these GMO's get me sick. I only know of one that is sticking to non-GMO as long as they can. Maybe grass fed has a different taste but like anythng your body will get use to it I was at Whole foods now I have to go local . If enough people want these things maybe we can get at least Whole foods to deliver.
Grain fed beef will always depend on basic supply and demand. I grew up on a farm, where we raised both grass and grain fed cattle. Are the living situations for grass fed cattle more humane? Arguably. However, when it comes down to basic taste, the leaner grass-fed cattle cannot compete. The gristle on the meat is what makes the meat tender. We can talk all we want about the advantages of grass-fed cattle but until consumer tastes change, fatty burgers always win. People don't want to pay more for a product that doesn't taste as good (see McDonalds).
SO... Until we find a point in which we can make grass fed beef as tender as grain fed, the US population decides that it doesn't want fatty burgers, or we manage to make perfect beef chefs out of the basic population, the grain fed monopoly will never end.
Farmers that run stock yards provide a (relatively) cheap and efficient service to this country, and until grass-fed production changes, this service will dominate the market.
Doc – if you are a doctor – I'm sorry, but "gristle" is not what makes meat tender. Gristle is connective tissue, period. Primarily collagen, but with healthy doses of elastin and reticulin (in some tissue) thrown in. Connective tissue and "tender" are polar opposites. How you cook the meat can break down some of the connective tissue and make a particular cut more tender, but the relationship between gristle and tenderness is inversely proportional.
Please do dazzle us with your credentials since you're an expert "What?" You've discounted every person's comments on this board but yet we haven't heard much about who you are. Hmmmm...I'm very skeptical.
I like how this post receives not one comment as nobody else wants to recognize the simple economics! If consumers demand grass fed beef and are willing the pay the extra funds for it they can eat it tonight! We raise both on our farm and cater to both sides of the argument because at the end of the day we are capitalists and we have a market for both. You can argue about both sides all day but at the end of the day it is your dollar and by spending it you control what the market produces. Some people enjoy coming to our farm watching the cows in the pasture and pay the long dollar for grass fed, no hormone, antibiotic free beef. Others come in on a budget and want what they can stretch their dollar to feed their family for. By trying to change the system you are taking away people's choice and options which ultimately will hurt one side or the other. One last thought and I apologize as I have tried to stay non bias is for those that have thrown around farm subsidies and being a waste of our tax dollars. If you have a chance to read through the farm bill you will notice that only 15-20% of the "farm bill" goes to farmers. Where does the other 80% go you may wonder, social assistance programs! So basically the farm bill is the "welfare" bill most of it is paid directly into food programs and a small portion is given directly to the farmers to ensure a cheap food supply for those that can't afford the "grass fed"
Correct me if im wrong but isnt grain fed cattle suseptible to e-coli and the only reason we're feeding our cows grain is because its cheaper? I saw this on the "food inc" documentary and got so grossed out... I started buying grass fed beef and organic chicken. Sure i still ingest the grain fed, its permeated our society and i cant avoid it but grass fed is what my family is getting when they eat at my home.
That's the one Food, Inc. Wow, it changed our lives.
"Cheaper" is not the 'only' reason cattle are fed grain. In fact, grain IS NOT cheaper than grass/hay. It is much more efficient, though, in putting the 'finish' on the animals than grass is. It would take many – not 3 or 4 or 6 – more months to get an animal to a desired slaughter weight on grass than on grain because there isn't enough energy (aren't enough calories) in the grass to allow the animal to put on the weight fast enough. There isn't enough grassland, either, to 'finish' the number of cattle that are slaughtered in this country.
A lot of people think that "well, that's just grass; it's natural and they will eat it and it doesn't cost anything". That is not the reality of the situation. Yes, it's grass, but is it a grass they will eat? Cattle won't eat just about anything, unlike a deer or a goat. Not all grassland is created equal, either. Pasture land is generally rated by how many "hooves/acre" it will support. In a lot of places in the east, natural pasture is rated at something like 2 hooves/acre (it would take 2 acres of land to support 1 animal). In a lot of places out west, the "natural" grassland is rated not at hooves/acre but acres/hoof. A lot of that land, or the grass growing on it, is so poor that it takes 10 acres or more of land to support one animal. You can't raise cattle to the point of having a 'decent' product like that in a reasonable amount of time.
Which corn company do you work for "What?"
This article is grossly slanted and ignores some of the major points of the local and grass-fed movements. First, it's much better for the environment: look into the connection between corn and oil. Second, the reason corn-fed beef is less expensive is that the corn industry is heavily subsidized by the government. Third, the reason corn-fed cows require so many antibiotics (creasting antibiotic-resisitant strains of happy little fellas such as ecoli) is that the digestive system of a cow is not capable of digesting corn. They get sick. They need antibiotics. Suddenly super strains of ecoli abound. Fourth, while the article acknowledges that "marbeling" means levels of fat, it fails to acknowledge that this system was created in connection with boosting the corn-fed market because corn is fatty and makes the cows fatter. Fifth, as far as "taste" goes, Paula Dean shoves a stick of butter into a hunk of flour and sugar and people marvel at her delicious dessert. It's not hard to cook with fat!! For heaven's sake, it shouldn't come as a surprise that you have to use a little more effort to cook a good piece of lean, grass-fed beef since it's got less "natural" flavor (i.e., FAT). Sixth, they're acting like 16,000 calories a year isn't that much when, in reality, an extra 100 calories a day = 10 pounds of fat a year!
I'm pretty sure we know which industry sponsored this little article. It's about as fair and balanced as a Fox News report on health care.
Quote: "It's about as fair and balanced as a Fox News report on health care."
And your is, too.
First – do you have any idea of the relative land areas required to provide the needed level of "feed" for these two groups of animals? Think you can get the same amount of grass off one acre as you can corn? If you do, you're just plain ignorant. It would take at least 10 times the acreage of grass to feed the same number of cattle as one acre of corn will feed, and probably significantly more than that. You still think you're being more "environmentally friendly?"
Second – the reason grass-fed is more expensive is because it takes so much longer to 'finish' them, because grass doesn't provide the same level of energy as corn. A major portion of the "subsidy" for corn is for ethanol-production, which has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.
Third – Blatently untrue. Not all animals are fed antibiotics. In a 'confined' situation like a feedlot, though, if one animal becomes sick with a transmittable disease, it would spread like an epidemic through the rest of the feedlot. The antibiotics are used at a sub-therapeutic level and usually aren't the same drugs given to humans – similar, but not the same. They don't need the antibiotics because they're eating grain. And I suppose you don't know they are still getting grass (hay) even while they are "on grain", do you? (Of course you don't, because that would weaken your 'argument'.)
Fourth – And you got this information from where, exactly? It is a well-established fact that the level of marbling is highly correlated with juiciness and flavor, and also has a positive effect on tenderness. That is why it is a major determinant of the "quality" grade assigned to a carcass. The comparison is a little extreme, but think of it as eating a piece of meat versus eating a piece of leather. No fat in the leather, so it's tough, dry, and has very little flavor.
Fifth – The technical term is 'plasticizing'. It means to alter the normal physical characteristics of a substance by making them more 'plastic' – not to be confused with a petroleum-derived "plastic". The fat helps 1) lubricate and 2) tenderize the meat, which in turn makes it more palatable (easier/better to eat). Please reference the previous example.
Sixth – Your distortion of the math is admirable. You act as if you want to equate 16,000 calories/year with 100 calories/day. I wasn't aware that there were only 160 days in a year. I need a new calender.
And you're griping about "fair and balanced" . . . hmmmm.
First – We routinely finish 2 to 2 1/4 hd per acre. Are you suggesting 20 to 22 hd are finished from an acre of corn? That would be roughly 8 bushels per finsihed animal. That is approximately 20 days in the feedlot. Don't quote that Jude Capper BS.
Second – Most of our cattle will grade high select – low choice at 18-19 months of age without ever seeing a bit of grain. The notion they have to be 3 yrs old to finish on pasture is so 19th century.
Third – Ionophores such as rumensin and bovatech are antibiotics and they do affect digestion of grain by altering rumen microbe populations. You are correct that subtherapuetic antibiotics are usually not the same as used in human healthcare. Far more antibiotic resistant bacteria have developed in response to antimicrobial hand cleansers and irresponsible human prescriptions than will ever come from livestock antibiotic use.
Fourth – Pasture-finsihed cattle (not common grass fed) are as well marbled as fedlot beef and so have comparable juiceness and tenderness. You can have all the desirable traits of grain-finished cattle in conjunction with the healthier fat composition of pasture-finished. Just get your eat from the right rancher or farmer.
I guess we all need a little more of the fair and balanced gene....
JRG,
Hopefully you're still looking in on this one. Time for me to learn something now, if you'll help.
My comments have been made based on "grass-fed" being restricted to 'lightly managed' "turn 'em loose and let 'em have at it" pasture. I assume, from what you've posted here, that your 'pastures' for the "pasture-fed" animals are under somewhat more intensive management? What kind of grass(es) are you using? Are the animals on the same kind of grass the entire time, or are they grazing different grasses for 'finish'? Are the animals on the same plot from weaning to slaughter?
I suspect that if you're 'finishing' 2+ head per acre, then those pastures must be under pretty heavy 'management'.
What, We rotate cattle to new paddock every day. Location is 6000 ft elevation central ID. To frosty to grow crops up here. Center pivot irrigation gravity feed water supply from direct snow melt. No pumping costs. Pasture is multi-species grass-legume mixture. (Orchardgrass-meadow brome-smooth brome-timothy-bluegrass-redtop-western wheatgrass-tall fescue-red fescue-alsike clover-red clover-white clover-hop clover-alfalfa) Only fertlization is phosphorus about every five years. Cattle are primarily red & black Angus with a bit of polled hereford in the background.
At this location we do not commercially pasture finish cattle, only for ranch consumption. We work with a number of pasture-finishers through the region on cattle selection, forage mixture, and grazing management. Most of our cooperators manage as I have described above with similar results to what I described. It is a production model that could be implemented on millions of acres across the country
Thanks for asking. More people inside the cattle business, as well as out, need to know there is a real alternative..
JRG,
Thanks for the info. I put in an earlier reply, but I "replied" in the wrong place. To prevent a double entry, please look a couple of posts down for additional questions.
Thanks again.
"Sixth, they're acting like 16,000 calories a year isn't that much when, in reality, an extra 100 calories a day = 10 pounds of fat a year!"
Please educate yourself before posting. A pound of fat is roughly 3,500 calories... so 16,000 calories a year would be roughly 4.6 pounds of fat per year.
JRG,
Thanks. I've dealt with a lot of those same grasses and legumes. Not at all familiar with the 'brome' grasses, though.
Are you watering heavily? Any significant difference in forages in their winter hay? Do you have a rough estimate of their feed conversion ratio at 12+ months of age?
why do you have to click TWO links to get the story? c'mon, cnn...
To all of those saying grass-fed beef tastes better, I would say that's true, IF YOU LIKE THE TASTE OF GRASS!! Why don't you just eat venison and leave the cows alone?
Because venison sucks. Just sayin'.
Yeah, venison just doesn't taste very good.
you need to change cooks
Sorry, but venison is absolutely succulent... if you know how to cook it properly!
But after reading the "China Study" I'm really cutting down on the meat. Mind you I have always eaten very little meat, but lots of vegetables.
Meat has a tendancy to make me feel sluggish after a meal. Not with the vegs though.
Don't cut on meat. Read what the expert study-dismantler Denise Minger sayed about the China Study on her blog. http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/08/03/the-china-study-a-formal-analysis-and-response/
THE TITLE of this article should be "WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MEAT AND SHMEAT?" because this is EXACTLY what the site NoShmeat.com is about - the difference! Read the first article there under "Most Popular" section there – noshmeat.com. Read some of the comments there too, very informative.
Been a fan of that site since it rolled out, and it just got a much-needed facelift too. Looks good, prolly more ppl will pay attention. And the most popular article is pretty awesome i think it was the first one. Anyways, no shmeat-eatin' fo me.
+1
feeding livestock corn is unsustainable for our water resources.
A "debate" between grass-fed and grain-fed beef requires a discussion on the problems associated with the industrialized production of beef. To ignore this aspect of the "debate" by labeling it "political" is irresponsible and frankly the result of a lazy journalistic effort, nothing new for a news organization that lost its journalistic identity long ago.
Take it direct from a farm-boy who grew up on a cattle ranch. Grass fed beef is generally tougher, leaner and less flavorful (fat adds the flavor most people like) than corn finished beef. Some people like it, some people don't- a matter of personal taste. Back in my day 20 years ago, the rancher got the same price for a grass fed beef as you did for a corn finished beef. You can add a couple hundred pounds of weight real quick with corn finishing, so guess what we all did.... Now with grass fed bringing more money, you'll see more of it. And that's a good thing for the consumer- meaningful choice. They can get whatever suits their lifestyle and taste.
Pick up a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma". There is no comparison at all here. Cows can't eat grain, they a ruminants. Biologically, it makes them sick. However, our corporate welfare system in the US sees to it that farmers are paid to grow tons of #2 field corn that we don't need (your tax dollars at work, it really is welfare) so Cargill and ADM have a cheap supply of raw materials. We can jam it into cows if we pump them full of enough antibiotics. They still get sick, but the drugs keep them alive long enough to get them to the slaughterhouse.
Sit down to a steak from your local supermarket, and one from Argentina. It's not even a fair comparison. We're eating garbage in this country.
I wish more people educated themselves on this matter. I tired to get friends to watch some documentaries on the food system in our country and they all said " I would rather not know." How sad is that? Not even 5 mins later asking her kid is she wanted a happy meal. Yucky!!
And you are 'qualified' to make these "factual" statements by what, exactly?
If you think that a 'cow' can't eat grain, turn one loose in a field where somebody has dumped out a big pile of corn sometime. They're "free range" cattle, not those poor, mistreated CAFO animals who don't know any better and don't have a choice. I'm sure you'll find that they will walk up to the pile of corn, smell of it, turn their noses up, and just walk away. I'll let you in on a secret – they'll eat it in a heartbeat.
Deer are ruminants, too, aren't they? Think they won't eat grain? How uneducated can a vast portion of you be? For those who have grown up "in town" or in their nice little cozy subdivision and never been around a farm, let alone raised animals, I guess you have an excuse. But that doesn't mean you swallow all the anti-meat/anti-production farming pablum that you're spoon-fed without ever trying to find out if there's any truth to it. "Oh it must be true, that man on the television said it was so, and they said he was an 'expert'."
God help us all, and protect us from the prevailing ignorance in this country today. Amen.
this country was founded on false advertising
ignorance is marketing and the impulse buy is factored in to our GNP
don't protect us from ignorance, embrace is
Either way, it's a heart attack on a plate. But it will be YOURS, not mine. I don't eat the stuff, either kind.
Then your'e not very bright. Humans are omnivores, not vegitarians. We evolved big brains by being hunters. It doesn't take much intelligence to sneak up on a leaf. And carbs are the big killer, not meat. Carbs cause you to store fat. Eating fat does not. So eat all your veggies filled with carbs and we'll see who gets heart disease first.
Agree 100%.
vegetarian – old native word for poor hunter
Ah, what a bunch of bull. I used to eat meat but turned lacto-ova vegetarian years ago. I am heavier, more muscular, stronger at 49 than any other time of my life. Most of my diet is made up of organic milk and whey protein, organic yogurt, organic free range eggs, nuts of all kinds, organic peanut butter, berries, beans, whole grains; especially oats, some organic fruit. Trust me folks, you don't need meat to live. I used to love meat but my love for all animals and my hate for the factory farms far exceeds any selfish needs I might have.
"It doesn't take much intelligence to sneak up on a leaf." – HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Although, as a counter, it doesn't take much intelligence to sneak up on prepackaged meat at the supermarket either. ; )
I got much healthier after started a very low-carb , high saturated fat diet nearly 4 years ago. Allergies , asthma, urinary tract infections, leg edema, mood problems are all gone, all my cardiovascular markers are excellent. Also, 30 lb weight loss.
Meat doesn't cause heart attacks, grains do. Humans aren't meant to eat lots of grains because they're extremely inflammatory. Humans are best suited for a diet of mostly fat and protein, which are inflammatory-neutral or mildly anti-inflammatory, along with vegetables, which are also mildly anti-inflammatory. A diet full of grains is EXTREMELY inflammatory and is what causes, among other things, heart disease. Meat does not cause heart disease. If anything, meat cures heart disease because fats regulate cholesterol and cholesterol repairs your arteries. Things like eating lots of grains or smoking damages your arteries, which is causes your cholesterol to go up because it is trying to repair your arteries.
The same applies for cows. Cows were made to eat grass, not grains. A diet of grains produces lower quality meat and milk, and also makes the cow more susceptible to disease. You are what you eat, but you're also what you eat eats. Grass-feeding cows might make beef and milk products more expensive, but also healthier, saving money by having fewer health problems as you get older. I'll be the first to say that "animal rights" is the most laughable and pseudo-religious idea of this century, but just like any product meat and milk products require proper care in order to produce a quality product. If you treat the cow like crap and feed it crap then you're going to end up with a crap. Who wants to eat crappy meat? I don't.
We saw a documentary on this recently and will never eat grain fed beef again. It's bad for us and the cows as well. The single most swaying point is the taste, once you taste grass fed beef, milk, cheese or yogurt, your life will change however, it's very costly however again, my grocer says if it starts to sell better, the cost will stabilize.
Just by feeding cattle grass for the two weeks leading up to slaughter will reduce e-coli contamination risks. So I am for this but I am leery about the flavor of grass fed beef. I once had "organic" beef that was gamier than the venison I had eaten the week before.
I have had market meat all my life. Recently I bought Grass-fed meat. What a surprise I had. The smell and taste where completely diferent to a point I was not able to enjoy it. I agree that our tastes palets have been corrupted on all this years.
I guess it will take some time to get use to it.
Yep.. In my travels I found that our American palates seem to be so used to bland, soft (low quality) meats and vegetables that sometimes we don't even know what they are supposed to taste and feel like. Then our food is bulked out with salt, binders,flavor enhancers, gloop, etc. to make up for what's lost in mass production.
All beef is grass fed for most of their lives. It's only the last few months or so that they are in feed lots eating stuff other than grass.
You are poorly informed. Watch "Food Inc." and get your facts straight.
Maybe you need to get your facts straight? "Food, Inc." was made with no bias at all, wasn't it? If you believe that, you can stop now, be cause reading further will be useless for you.
Cattle are fed grain to 1) put a "finish" on them – this is both the marbling inside the meat (intramuscular fat) and the exterior fat on the outside of the carcass, and 2) to change the fatty acid composition in the fat to give the meat what has historically been proven to be a 'more desirable' taste. It only takes a little over 100 days to effect the fatty acid "switch". Most cattle can be adequately finished in 120 days (4 months). They do not stay in a feedlot for "years" or even "a year".
Feeding grain is expensive, so they don't stay in a feedlot any longer than necessary. Trying to finish on grass may actually be more cost-prohibitive, and is certainly more time-prohibitive. "Finishing" is accomplished by supplying enough energy (calories) to the animal to enable it to lay down those fat deposits. When forage-fed (grass) only, there isn't sufficient excess energy to allow them to lay down much fat. Therefore, yes, 'grass-fed' beef is leaner than grain-fed beef. It also is lower in "quality" – by definition, the way the USDA grading system is established – and will tend to be tougher, since fat adds not only flavor to the meat but also acts as a 'plasticizer' to help improve the tenderness and juiciness of the meat. To achieve a comparable level of 'finish', forage-fed cattle would have to be fed many months longer than grain-fed cattle.
But by all means take the word of self-serving eco-journalists over that of formally trained scientists in a debate. That way you'll frequently be on the 'popular' side, but almost never on the "factual" side.
Yeah, I don't think so. I use real facts, not biased documentaries with an agenda. You should try the same . Heck, go click on the link in the above article to get to the full article. Even there it confirms that cows are simply "finished" on grain-heavy diets. Anyone who lives in "cow country" can confirm that most of the cows they see are out in fields, not in feedlots. I've travelled all over rural central US and have only seen a few feed lots. But I've seen pleny of cows in pasture.
And in places like Colorado, there are areas where hundreds of thousands of cows graze freely on millions of unfenced acres.
It sounds like "What?" works for the corn industry. You are so full of BS it's not even funny. Grain Fed is expensive? You are clearly on some good drugs. There is so much corn in this country that it's in every product and we couldn't get rid of it all if we tried (try reading labels on the products you buy and look for the high fructose corn syrup–based on "corn" and cheaper than sugar. That's why we use it). You obviously know little about the laws of supply/demand. The greater the supply (corn), the lower the price. Corn is fed to cattle because it's cheap to do so considering the massive supply we have in the U.S. Please conduct some research before you embarrass yourself in public again. Bye bye. Oh, I almost forgot, what corn company do you work for?
What?-It's precisely the predominance of grain-finished beef in the marketplace which prevents the buying public from discerning to determine whether they'd prefer wholly grass-fed or not. While the palate of most Americans has become accustomed to processed and doctored foods that are rich in trans fats and O-6 fatty acids, many others are not. Furthermore, the USDA criteria for beef 'quality', which is the disemination of fatty marbling, is highly subjective in the light of nutritional value comparison, and ethnic groups who would prefer leaner, cleaner beef if they could get it. (I am one of them and there are some recipes that just won't fly with American fatty meat, the stew cuts for instance, are no good for island style fricasee.)
Mike, I think there are some issues that are lost in translation here. Yeah, grain is relitivly cheap when you compare it to vegetables or sugar cane that we need to import. But when you compare corn to grass, corn is VERY expensive. This year its costing me just over $500/acre to grow corn, I dont have a dollar amount on my grass but I'd bet its under $100 to maintain an acre of pasture. So we as cattle producers like to keep our animals on pasture as long as possible and not waste that high priced corn. Honesly Mike, "WHAT"? is providing a lot of verifiable facts in his post. Your not providing anything but oppinion in this argument.
Mike,
I can readily admit when I'm wrong, but you, apparently, can not. You have chosen to reply to nearly all of my comments by attacking their veracity and my work affiliation. I do not, and never have, worked for a "corn" company or anything resembling a corn company. My work deals with the agricultural/food sectors, and – just so you'll know – I have a Masters degree in food science/meat science. So I am 'somewhat' qualified to talk about this subject. You, on the other hand, seem perfectly capable of delivering much verbage about things you really don't know about.
Corn, while not "expensive" in an absolute sense, is quite expensive in comparison to grass, as Timmy G pointed out. And it is much more expensive than it was just five years ago before all the ethanol subsidies entered the picture. I may not understand "supply and demand" according to you, but I understand enough to know that the artificial and government propped up industry of corn-to-ethanol has severely inflated the price of corn in the last few years because of the artificially created "demand". You really are showing your lack of breadth by making the narrow arguments that you make. You should try to get a good grasp of the "bigger picture".
Good morning "What?" Yes, I can admit when I'm wrong. While not a Food Scientist or a rancher, it does not mean that I cannot add to the discussion in a meaningful way. My knowledge was acquired in the same way as you–reading and experience. As far as my opinion as Timmy G pointed out, opinions are formed based on one's experiences and my experiences are different than others. It is arrogant to say, "What?" that because I'm not in your industry that I cannot possibly add to the dialogue. You say that I attacked your comments, but yet you have succeeded in attacking many people on this list. Nobody here knows it all. Be open to others input in a less condescending way and perhaps your points will be better received next time. So what's my background? My in-laws have a cattle farm and my job is ensuring a more healthy product in this country from the field to the consumer. Good luck and no hard feelings.
Mike,
There are no hard feelings. I don't begrude anyone their right to 'speak', and I never said that you could not add anything to the discussion and dialogue. However, a good bit of what you have posted immediately above – and farther down in this string, if you're the same "Mike", is just downright wrong. There's enough "misinformation" out there already today without other people "piling on".
"What?",
Please propose some resources for the list. If I'm wrong, let me read the other side. There's quite a bit of information out there supporting my perspective and I've chosen to speak for the side that supports farming practices that support healthier land and soil, animal, and person. There's always room for improvement no matter the system and the status quo Big Agriculture model is broken. Yes, that's my opinion based on my own research. Rather than speak to my concerns on chemical fertilizers, perticides, overgrazing, grain feed, antibiotics, growth hormones, land erosion, soil fertility, hypoxia in the Gulf of Mexico, etc, I would love to read people's thoughts on why these things are. I do know a little something "What?" and I would be happy to read the opposing argument. As I mentioned, humanity is my concern and it's my job to ensure a healthy future.
Timmy G,
You've misunderstood. I wasn't referring to the cost to grow corn per acre. What is it costing you for your grain feed per head? If corn is so expensive, especially as a raw ingredient, how is it so cost effective to include it in the form of high fructose corn syrup that appears in everything from soda to bread to cottage cheese to seasoning for peanuts?
Mike,
I can't really give you anything to add to the list. Anything I would recommend would not be from the 'popular' media or on the shelf at the bookstore, and most certainly would not be 'light' reading. I'm not an elitist, and I don't have my head stuck in the sand, but there's so much crap being spouted and printed these days about meat/farming/agriculture that I have lost interest in trying to weed out the truth from all the half-truths and not-so-hidden agendas that predominate in those forums. The only reason anything ever gets published is to make money. The more 'controversial' or sensational it is, the higher the sales are likely to be. "Prey on people's fears and insecurities."
I don' t know you, and I don't know what you've read, so please don't take this as a personal attack. You talk about your "research" that you've done to lead you to the perspective that you have. Research is a wonderful thing, but if one chooses the wrong sources for references, then the research can lead to erroneous conclusions. Anybody, regardless of what they are researching, should always consider "the source" of the information they are using and consider the affiliations and agenda of the author. Researching peer-reviewed academic articles – while extremely 'dry' and unentertaining – will prove to be much more valuable and reliable as a source of information than reading almost anything in the popular print.
I am curious as to what you do. You state that your job is "ensuring a more healthy product in this country from the field to the consumer", and my knee-jerk reaction to that – given my training and experience – is that you may work for either the USDA (FSIS or APHIS) or the FDA. I don't expect specifics, but would like to know if I'm correct or not and, in a general sense, what your "job title" would be, if you don't mind.
I wish we would raise more grass-fed cattle. If we continue using the amount of water we do right now on cattle AND the corn to feed that cattle (among other uses), we will run out of clean water before we run out of coal or oil.
Does anyone ever think where all that water used to grow crops or pasture goes? It just goes either back into the atmosphere to rain down somewhere else or into the ground to recharge the ground water supply. I once had someone say to me it took 3000 lb of water to produce a pound of beef. I asked them where the 3000 lb of water was now. They said it was in the beef. I asked, "So, there is actually 3000 lb of water inside one pound of beef?" Their reply was yes. That shows how stupid and naive a lot of people are when it comes to questions of resource management and utilization.
No doubt that was probably a Republican.
Who's ignorant? The water cycle reference is obvious, but you're missing a major point. The aquifers in the midwestern and plains states that furnish irrigation water are being pumped dry. Shortages are already showing up. Surface water is quickly replenished by rain, but overpumping is depleting the deeper groundwater, which takes considerable time to replenish. And when the surface water is being used, too, replenishing fails. The next economic wars coming around the world will be over water rights and use, and excessive growing of corn is a part of the problem.
go the taco bell route
There is a story about how the land was restored by introducing a cattle herd. The title of the story is "Th meat is the Earth medicine" http://donmatesz.blogspot.com/2011/03/operation-hope-meat-is-medicine-for.html
Amen, bro, a lot of these talking 'heads' (if you can call them that) can't even pinpoint their hometown on a world atlas.
OMG! Gag me with a spoon! Fer shure! "What's the diff?" Use your words CNN!
Cows are allowed to eat grass? Then why do humans need a prescription?
Nothing better than Grass-Fed...! But it's cheaper and easy to provide Grain-Fed. Time's Magazine got an article a frew years ago comparing 300 oz of American Beef and Argentinian Beef and the amount of calories it's horrendous...! (for the American Beef) + all of the Hormones and etc.... In US the American Beef Association don't care much about quality, taste and health....! The mass produce just for the profit and the money. That's why most Americans looks so fat and the meet taste like "plastic". Same thing with the chicken and turkey. Plus charcoal with oil (briquettes) instead of natural charcoal + flame cook instead of heat cook, etc....This is the recipe for those naughty barbecues that we see every Sunday in US. Make a trip to Argentina or Brazil and taste real meet, at least for once in your life. Make a short trip to see the cows in the country side and then ask yourself....Why Buenos Aires it's pack of American Turists....?
And why, why the world the beed it's so tasty and delicious...
Lear more at:
http://argentinebarbecue.com/
Google Argentinian Barbecue and go to images.....
No offense...., just some reality....
I couldn't agree with you more! Buenos Aries was my first taste of grass-fed beef and it is truly remarkable how much better it tasted than grain-fed. The chicken was also better.
Why would the chicken taste better? Do they also feed them grass?
Not all Americans use those easy light briquettes. Just saying.
I am sorry to say I was terribly dissappointed with the quality of meat in Buenos Aires. Maybe they were importing from the US during the trip I took. Great prices though!
Oh yea, did I forget to mention that grain-fed beef consumption makes the grain-state lobbyists and politicians, as well as multinational biochemical companies like Monsanto and DuPont, REALLY happy?
Jorge said that "grain fed beef" makes multinational agrabusiness happy." This only happens if you eat the stuff. I don't eat beef at all so I don't make ADM happy at all, which is fine with me. sanjosemike
Your still making ADM happy if you use or consume oil seed based products. Soybeans anyone?
the difference is taste. Grass fed beef tastes far, far better than grain fed. In fact, you haven't even tasted beef until you've had grass fed beef.
I agree, unless I am getting my steak form Peter Luger's in Brooklyn N.Y. For that kind of coin I definitely want the prime grade beef they use.
I bet you get meat from a lot of places. H0mo!
Are you two still going at each other? Enough already. Agree to disagree and stop attacking each other like 5-year-olds fighting over the last yellow crayon.
Grass-fed beef is leaner and more nutritious than grain-fed, it also has a more genuine beef taste and requires more cooking skill, as it tends to be less marbled. This goes against the preference of the U.S. market, which has developed a corrupted palate in which everything has to be greasy, sweetish and cloying. I myself much prefer grass-fed, as it is easier on my system than fatty, marbled CAFO beef.
I ate grass once when I was a kid waiting to get our baseball pictures taken. I didn't care for it, so I can see why they go for grain.
Yeah ...... but try to smoke corn ...
and not bad in a hoka either
I have been to Colombia where the cattle are grass fed and there is no comparison in taste. The grass fed is much more delicious. The difference is actually astonishing.
The majority are not buying the grass fed beef. It does not have the flavor or texture of beef that is finished with grain. I raise my beef to 9 months on grass and finish 3 to 4 months on grains. The difference in flavor and quality is remarkably different. It is as different as and unripened store bought tomato and one picked from the vine at it's peak. The beef industry tried raising extra lean beef in the past. it is much cheaper to raise but takes longer for the animal to reach slaughter size. It just did not sell because the flavor was not there. We raise what the consumers want. I have to go now and feed my herd.
In the paleo-verse a number of people that have switched to 100% grass-fed prefer the taste to that of grain-fed. Granted that's a small (but growing) minority. I can only hope that as more grain-fed beef becomes available to the masses that people's tastes evolve to prefer the healthier option.
By switching your grain from corn and soy beans to flax seed, you will have meats with a better fat ratio and still be able to fatten them in the time frame you need.
to inefficient. flax yeilds about 20 bushells an acre. corn on the other hand yeild 160. a farmer growing there own feed would need 8 times the land to finish the same number of cattle.
You've obviously never tried to commercially harvest flax either. There is a reason it is so expensive.
Look at Crossfit.com. Look at the paleo diets. Many athletes around the country are switching to a lower fat protien. There is a niche growing that demands grass fed beef. As a fellow business man, I would take advantage of that right away. The price per pound is higher. You say that people don't like the taste, yet they are writing a story about it on CNN.com. Don't be so quick to dismiss. I did the exact same thing recently (obviously not beef but a new product), and now I have come around the new idea, it has the potential to be my biggest seller.
cattle can not be finished on grain alone they are provided with hay usually free fed. If you want to know about feeding cattle ask those who actually do it every day. Jeff Fowle has written great articles. If you really want to know about this topic educate yourself. Did you know grain is grass?
http://commonsenseagriculture.com/2011/01/24/force-feeding-cattle-grass-fed-vs-grain-fed/#comments
Rancher: I completely agree with you. My family owns a small feedlot, and you can really taste the difference between grass-fed and grain finished. I really wish some of the people opposed to grain fed would talk to an actual agriculturalist. Our animals are like pets and it isn't cruelty to slaughter them. They are fulfilling their purpose in life, just like us having kids and going to work each day. Agriculture literacy is a critical problem in America and if we don't do something about it the agriculture industry will suffer.
I've been wanting to have grass-fed beef at restaurants but all I've seen so far is grass-fed veal... which I refuse to eat. I love meat but I'll pass on eating a poor veal calf!
I admire your compassion, but the grass-fed beef was once a cute little grass-fed calf too! Me, I eat 'em all if they have been raised on their natural diet (in this case, grass).
Joel, the problem with veal is that it's caged for it's entire life. I eat beef, but refuse to eat veal as well.
I'll say that grass fed beef is way better than grain. And, if you can, find a bucking bull ranch to get your beef. We're always culling animals that don't buck and you can buy them for meat. Best beef you'll ever have. Very lean and tender.
Diana and Righton,
I understand your passion and compassion on the subject of eating veal. I too fell as you do, and am opposed to the cruelty of hurting animals (both old and young). However, I am willing to eat veal. Let me explain why.
First, I assure you that the calves don’t suffer long. My extended family has been hauling veal calves to market for years. I can assure you that it is a needed. Most of the veal calves are bull calves born to dairy cows. They make terrible beef steers and they eat more than it is worth to raise them to adolescents (18 – 24 months, the age that you normally butcher a standard beef steer).
Second, I assure you that there is no such thing as a grass-fed veal calf. We don’t let them get that old. All of them I have ever seen are still only on milk when they go to market if even that. Usually they are pulled away from their mommy cow and are sent to market within 24 hours of birth. They don’t get a first meal let alone a last of milk, let alone grass or grain.
This may sound cruel, but this is a part of the diary business. It is one way diaries keep the price of milk down. Keep in mind that the veal calf is never going to cover the cost of his food at any point in his life. The longer we let him live the more he will consume. Keeping the little guys around, only to eating up food supplies when they are produce nothing in return, would make very bad business. While I am concerned about cruelty of animals, I am willing to eat the by produce of the dairy industry in the form of veal.
Dave,
Sure they are sent to market rapidly, but the Veal farmers buy the calves. They are not slaughter right away. The ones you haul could possible go to processing right away, but there are different types of veal. Each type has the animal getting different feed, treatment, and age before slaughter. And there is most definitely grain-fed veal.
I know of a place in San Diego at Horton Plaza call "O Brothers" They tote the "All Organic beef Burger". I'm not sure if it is grass fed beef or not, but it's really good.
There's a restaurant in Lewisburg WV (near where I reside) called "Stardust Cafe" that uses local beef and produce. The beef there is all grass fed. I know the odds that you live near one of these places are thin, but I thought you would like ot know that such places exist in the restaurant world.
It's not killing and eating the calf that is so wrong, it is the fact that they are kept amenic to keep their meat white and tender. Many of them can barely stand on their own. THAT is cruel.
If you're opposed to veal, it's important to acknowledge that the veal industry goes hand in hand with the dairy industry. Cows must be impregnated regularly to keep producing milk, and the calves are immediately (or in best case scenarios, a week later) taken away from the mothers so that the milk can be harvested for humans. Some of the female calves are saved to be milking mothers, but the majority of the male calves go straight to the veal farm. Dollars spent on dairy products are dollars spent on the veal industry.
The veal farmers themselves proudly discuss this relationship here:
http://www.vealfarm.com/industry-info/faqs.asp
I learned something new today. I never hear that before. I'm not thrilled about veal, but I'm also not a PETA type...somewhere in the middle I guess. But I love, love, LOVE milk!!! I guess since I am contributing to veal anyway (drinking ~5 gallons of milk a month myself), I may as well start eating the little guys!
you don't know what you're missing. besides veal calves are dairy animals that have no value because they are male. only females are important in the dairy industry. male calves would otherwise be ground up for pet food or fertilizer.
Dear Diana ,veal calves are fed milk not grass.
Good! That's more veal left for me! That is about the ONLY beef that I like.
Grass-fed beef is rich in omega-3 fatty acids, while the abundance of omega-6's in grain-fed meat only adds more insult to a diet that is already hugely overstuffed with the latter.
This is why I won't eat fish unless I know it's open sea. Farmed fish are fed grains, among other things, which is nothing short of obscene.
The standard American diet has an omega-6/omega-3 ratio of 20-40:1. Ideally, it should not be more than 2:1. Omega-6's are necessary fats, but are inflammatory, and in excess have been tied to a range of diseases, particularly cardiovascular illness, diabetes and cancer.
I agree with everything you said Mike. Not only bovine meat, but milk, cheese and chicken eggs also have an unhealthy ratio of fatty acids.
Ditto on what Mike said...I'm a nurse and only eat grass fed beef and wild fish...
Not only is it better for you, in my opinion, grass fed tastes better too!
I agree with Chumlee,
One nice thing about raising cattle is you get to taste the grass fed beef and the grain finished beef. Grain fed beef to me has much more depth in flavor and is much more tender due to the higher fat content. I think that is one reason why cattle straight from the pastures sells for less than grain finished cattle.
It seems like we are the minority. I've been eating only grass fed for 3 years. I think it is so much better, and I am way healthier.
Agree. I've been eating organic food and hasn't had any major flue or any health problems. It does taste so much better with grass fed beef too.
flu i mean
I live in Texas and have had both grass fed and grain. In my opinion grain does taste better; grass fed can be a little gamey tasting depending on the cut. It is healthier for sure but you can taste a more grassy earthy flavor in the meat. I get my beef from a local organic long horn cattle ranch. BTW, longhorn cattle is super low in fat and far more healthy than your average store beef.
Yes Mike, but if you are poor you simply can not afford the more expensive grass fed beef, let alone the Angus. Us poor working folks are stuck having to eat whatever is cheapest and/or on sale. Until the HEALTHY stuff becomes lower in price to where there is genuine competition then KNOWING that there IS a healthy alternative is merely adding insult to injury. It further emphasizes the facts that ONLY the rich can afford to be healthy (as in afford REAL health care, REAL healthy food, and show REAL concern for the environment through action)
Cost is not a problem if you aren't eating too much meat to begin with.
I eat 6-7 oz a day (ordinarily). Mainly fish and chicken, very little red meat. The chicken I eat isn't free range, I'm sad to say, but not eating too much of it limits the downside.
I was an SF medic for many years. When some folks would ask me for dietary advise, I'd get out my knife and tell them, "eat as much meat as you can catch with this."
I LOVE fish, my wife hates it. So, I'll frequently have fish for breakfast, with some potatoes and one egg.
I also love duck, lamb, goat, rabbit, American bison and duck.
I also love dark, leafy greens. While, they may lock up a lot of minerals, they ARE good bulk and keep me regular.
I have to wonder if the mass production in cattle feeding and those good ole boys at ADM (Archer Daniels Midland) with their love of CORN!! These huge "farms" are really just write-offs in reality. Regular, smaller farmers do a good job of raising cattle – people on these "agri-farms" want to fatten them ASAP and rotate in the next bunch – it's all about the $$$$$ and the write-offs and the HUGE SUBSIDIES BY THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT THAT NO ONE WILL TOUCH!! I saw an old interview with the late Duane Andreas and when he was asked if he felt guilty about all of the subsidies – he said OF COURSE NOT. There you have entitlement, corruption (oh, yeah), arrogance – well, you get the drift.
It's a little early in the week to get the VEGANS all riled up-Don't ya think?
Maybe the peanut posters needed a break.
Look up feed lots and see where most of your beef comes from. I was sickened to my stomach. Thats why you get sick from this stuff. Check it out
@AleeD – best laugh I've had all morning. Too funny!!!
@ranp. I've been to many feedlots. It makes me sad, but not sick. Maybe a little hungry :(
Sorry, they're not being tortured. They're being fed and eventually slaughtered to become food.
Try going hungry some time, you'll lose that excess of emotion when you can eat again!
The term 'grain-fed' sounds better for marketing purposes, but what they really are is corn-fed in these feed lots. It's not a viable long term diet for the cows. Their ability to move about is also minimized.
Watch the film "King Corn", and get the low-down in this area.
Sunny Guy
Why exactly would the vegans get riled up from this article?
What's your beef with vegans?
Is that a pun?
Listen, there was a GREAT article recently exactly about VEGAN vs. OMNIVORE bickering and how counterproductive it is because there's actually 99% that they agree on, like the brutality of factory farming, that results in both terrible quality meat and cruelty that is far beneath a 21st century superpower. You should read it. Go to NoShmeat.com, and it's about the 3rd post down "Olive Branch Over Vegans Omnivores" or something like that. Read the post, then check out the article. I assure you, you won;t be wasting your time.
noshmeat rocks. Read the top shmeat sandwich article there it is WIN! (Does anyone say win anymore, I'm trying to be hip?)
agreed, I eat meat, but I'm very much in favor of changing the food industry to prevent animal cruelty and poor factory conditions
vegans and meat eaters mostly disagree with the principle of killing another animal or using another animal to benefit humans.
I mostly stand on the grounds that eating meat IS the most natural thing, our physiology is designed for meat eating and our anatomy is consistent with omnivorous species. In nature, animals eat other animals, animals kill each other, that's how it is. Species usually only grow to the detriment of another species, humans are no different. However, just because we eat meat and use animal products does not mean they need to be treated cruelly in the process. There are many ways to obtain meat without causing excessive pain and discomfort to the animals, and ways to be more efficient by using ALL of the parts of the animal (similar to the native american philosophy).
We really do usually agree on 99% in the end
I'll agree that beef isn't that tasty. That's why I prefer lamb or even goat.
I can suffer with pork. I prefer duck to chicken, any day.
And rabbit is extra tasty.
Last count I heard, more than 1/3 of the feedlots and slaughter-houses are designed and checked by Temple Grandin, who is the most famous animal activists and she makes absolutely certain the animals are well cared for, and slaughtered without violence. She, herself, is a meat-eater, and no one cares more about cattle than she does. Many of you who look at some of these films floating around, are looking at old films which no longer apply. I have lived in cattle country all my life, and I can attest to what TG has done for the industry.
Ignorance is bliss. Isn't it Richard?
Nah- this vegan has no 'beef' with grass-fed cattle raised locally and butchered humanely.
http://bit.ly/e6mQIg eats meat is going to die
This effects you too. They pump cows and chickens with hormones that causes many isses within humans!
I own a conventional feedlot, we do not pump our animals full of hormones, nor is it the industry standard. Just because you watched Food Inc. does not make you an expert.
Not to mention the FDA requirement to discontinue any hormones and drugs 60 days before the animal goes to market.
Olivia, Most grass fed beef programs are never ever programs. which means the animal is never given atibiotics or growth hormones. If an animal gets sick it can be given antibiotics but then must be taken out of the grass fed program and put into a commodity beef program.
What do vegans have to do with this article? Im a vegan, Im not "riled-up". This is an article for meat eaters. Im reading it to stay educated on both sides.
Feed lots. Look it up. Cows literally stand on four to five feet of crap. Get fed grain and antibiotis and are slaughtered with generations of cow crap on them. Look it up
Four to five feet of crap. My cattle are four to five feet tall at the hip. So you are saying they are swimming in crap? I'm not going to waste my time looking this one up.
Obviously biased exaggerations to not help to support your argument btw...
Or are you saying they're standing on 4 or 5 feet because you can't count their legs? 1, 2, 3, 4 is the norm for most cows.
I don't want to look it up!
Cows aren't supposed to eat corn. It gives them disease. Cows naturally eat grass, but big business would rather poison the public than have safe and quality product.
All you tree-hugging freaks are the same. You sit in your green yards and drink your green tea and buy organic because you have some idea that you KNOW what the real world is like. HORMONES ARE NOT PUMPED INTO CATTLE. GRAINS ARE A HEALTHY PART OF CATTLE DIET. FEED LOTS ARE NOT BUTCHER SHOPS WHERE POOR INNOCENT ANIMALS ARE SLAUGHTERED IN INHUMANE WAYS. Don't believe everything you read or see and use some COMMON SENSE. WITHOUT FARMERS AND FEEDLOTS AND GRAINS AND WAYS TO FEED THIS ARROGANT, GREEDY COUNTRY, YOU WOULD ALL STARVE. Do the rest of us a favor and STAY IGNORANT.
Did you say something?
Corn is a grass. If only you hadn't slept through high school biology.....
mmm is an idiot.
If anyone's ever been to Argentiina or Uruguay you would know that there is no comparison in taste. Grass fed beef blows corn fed beef out of the water.
mmm- Your all caps and your misinformation prove that you are blinded by emotion on this issue.
Understanding the fact that beef steers are "supposed" to eat grass. Eating grain stresses their systems and then you get into the antibiotic issues. Too bad people don't tell the whole story. Or maybe they don't understand steers and that is why they mistakenly call them cows!! How funny. The antibiotics are causing TONS of problems for the cattle, our children and the population in general.
The antibiotics prevent infection, hence cause the cattle to gain more weight. They are also REQUIRED BY LAW to be discontinued 60 days before the animal can go to market.
Hence, any drugs are long cleared from the animal's system.
Personally, I don't like the tastelessness of beef. I prefer lamb, goat, rabbit, duck, American Bison.
Let the Vegans go back to Vega and leave those of us from Sol 3 alone.
I prefer beef that was fed beer and pretzels.
The worst feed lots have names like Golden Corral, Hometown Buffet, Ryan's Buffet, etc. They do a lot more damage than just consuming meat ...