 Chefs with Issues is a platform for chefs we love, fired up for causes about which they're passionate. Caroline Jann Dunbar is a graduate of the University of Michigan and Le Cordon Bleu. She currently works as a chef in Austin, Texas. Let's just pretend for a second that you haven't grown an inch since seventh grade, can French-braid your hair while driving and have a higher pitched voice than some small children. The guy standing next to you? Well, he’s your age, graduated high school around the same time and has been cooking nearly as long. On paper, a fair opponent for the “Mystery Basket Test” which will determine who will earn the new line cook position. Oh, did I mention he’s about 6’5’’, probably twice your weight and his face is the only area of skin without a koi fish motif? The Executive Chef lifts an eyebrow signaling that you and the other applicant can start. You and Bigfoot grab your knives and begin furiously preparing your mise en place. Moments later, you are speeding between all the stations trying to justify your technique and experience to the observing kitchen staff. Time’s up! Chef tastes, nods, tilts his head and declares that you did a “pretty good job.” Your competitor’s chicken, on the other hand, may technically be cooked, but squishes down too much at a light touch for anyone to risk a sample. The line position has to be yours. Easy choice. Your dish was well executed and won’t give anyone stomach cramps later. Unfortunately, your food is not the only thing being judged. I think it’s a fair observation to say more females cook at home than males. Many women love to get culinary creative in the privacy of their own abode and many men who don’t cook professionally can’t figure out scrambled eggs. Why is it that our culture accepts women as the Executive of the home kitchen, but much less often in the professional kitchen? Professional kitchens are hot, crowded places with the opportunity for physical harm around every corner and on every surface. We all signed up for it, though. As a friend and fellow female cook said lovingly, “our line is a pirate ship.” She was talking about the less-than-pristine language and jokes that accompany many restaurant kitchens, but I think this statement is also applicable to other aspects of the kitchen culture. There is the captain and the crew - no room or time for a princess. “Stop being a girl about it.” My mother still tells me when I flake, take the easy way out or don’t speak up for myself. Not to say that professional cooks should lack femininity (I love me some pink lipstick), but if we want the same opportunities as men in the kitchen, we can’t be girls about it. No, we must be women. In hindsight, I have contributed to the stereotype that women are not tough enough to survive the grueling conditions of the kitchen. In culinary school, I gladly stepped aside when a male classmate offered to lift the 25-pound box of canola oil off the shelf. I took a moment to relax while the men were put in charge of cleaning out the fryers. Instead, I should have been looking for opportunities to prove my physical ability. My culinary ideas were respected and my dishes given high marks, but I know that my chef instructors put me and my female colleagues aside when thinking of how physically demanding a busy restaurant gets. One young man in my final segment of culinary school was obviously a favorite of our chef instructor. His untried pride came off as arrogance to me - to my teacher, a strength. My peer’s goal of working at wd~50 enthralled the instructor and he gave his unreserved support to the goal. When I asked the same instructor for a recommendation for a local Italian restaurant, he smiled, patted my shoulder and suggested a different place with less volume and notoriety. “You wouldn’t like it,” he explained, “It’s old school, darling.” He told me to try the smaller place because it would be a good learning environment. The instructor turned around and continued to congratulate my male counterpart on his ambition to go to New York. Luckily, I had found a mentor in my protein-fabrication instructor who was himself a seasoned New York chef with the smarts not to disqualify my vision. He recommended me to the Italian restaurant. While I practiced my pizza toss, I realized I was the only woman working the dinner shift. I began contemplating kitchen statistics while kneading the dough: Why aren’t there as many women cooking professionally as there are men? Is it because women don’t want to work the irregular hours? Give up their evening, weekends and holidays? Are women afraid of collecting scars on their hands instead of manicures? Maybe it’s the minimal pay and lack of health care benefits at most restaurants? Obviously unable to relate fully with the women who won’t even try the profession, I’d like to address the females who’ve accepted culinary world - small paycheck, sharp knives, late nights and all. We’re out there. Why is it so shocking to see a lady in chef whites? Ladies, you could try overcompensating for your femininity. You could try to distract the rest of the crew from the fact you have boobs. In my experience, it just doesn’t work. Don’t be a girl, but also don’t waste energy trying to be just like the rest of the men. I tried to blend in with the all-male line team of a Spanish restaurant I worked at for a while - everything from regurgitating football trivia to showcasing my unusually grand knowledge of '80s metal bands. Despite my vigorous efforts to downplay my femininity, they were still stuck on my sex. Poaching eggs seems like a straightforward task. Poaching 200 in an hour? A bit more complicated. The “big poach” at the Spanish place was a glamorous duty left for the garde manger to do before Sunday brunch. Two of us shared the prep duties for the weekend, which included handling more eggs in a day than most people will eat in their whole lifetime. We found a rhythm to accomplishing our prep list, and, just as sliding the eggs in the poaching water became routine, the two of us became very efficient. After a few weeks of the groove, I took a weekend off to visit one of my brothers in California. Upon my return to the restaurant, the weekend’s top joke floated down the line to my spot by the salads. “I dare you to guess who poached this?!” one of the cooks snickered. Another replied without looking up from his cutting board “Is it perfect? Caroline.” Sweet! They finally accept me and appreciate my attention to detail, I thought to myself. I’d been trying to be one of the guys since I started, but no matter how many times I reassured them that I know plenty of ball jokes, there was an obvious lack of camaraderie. I’m used to handling my two brothers and their teasing. Some kitchens I’ve been in are very much like a family ... or a fraternity. Break in the new kid and eventually he can drink beers in the parking lot with the other guys. Even as a seasoned younger sister, I couldn't find a method to break in this club of line cooks. After trying to fit in with no avail, I gave up. I decided to just get there early, work hard, learn their recipes and cook to the best of my ability. The day I came back from vacation, I thought the guys had finally forgotten that I was a female and saw me just as a solid cook and member of the line team. “We have to be on our best behavior when you’re around, Caroline,” the grill-cook admitted to me while I helped him skewer pork for his station. “We try not to swear too much or corrupt your innocent ears...” So, instead of seeing my skills as an asset, they saw me as someone stifling their usual banter. Maybe I broke them in for the next lady who steps up to their line and they’ll take her more seriously. I’d like to think they appreciate me more in hindsight now that I’m not around to poach their eggs like a beast. I believe that the ratio of males to females in the kitchen will someday even out, but perhaps we can accelerate this evolution by remembering how women sustain these gender roles. We can’t just blame the guys: we have to take some of the responsibility. Don’t over-apologize, don’t cry when your chef chews you out, keep composure when in the weeds and don’t shy away from responsibility. Expect respect, but steer clear of accepting chivalrous help when on the clock. Also, lift the heavy sh*t. How can you men affect this culture and evolve our professional world? Don’t assume that the women who want to work alongside you are unwilling, incapable or less of an asset because of their stature or genteel appearance. Cooking is a beautiful profession but a tough business, and anyone willing to take it on as a career understands that it’s not going to be easy. Also, make everyone lift the heavy sh*t. Why should an industry so in-tune with the harmony of flavors be happy with cooking in such an imbalanced, male-dominated work place? Just as a top-notch dining experience takes advantage of all senses, and a quality menu calls upon many techniques, our kitchens would benefit from more perspectives and an evolution of what is expected, accepted and typical. I have confidence in the American kitchen. We all want to cook delicious, interesting dishes, right? Let’s not only introduce diners to food they should be eating but let’s redefine the “normal” composition of a professional kitchen staff while we’re at it. |
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Arguing on the internet gets you nowhere :o) honk honk
I have a question for the professionals and or careerists out there. In full disclosure I have no culinary experience aside from the TV and a few books. Why would anyone in their right mind go through the abuse that I've read about here or have seen/read about working in a kitchen. I mean in the military, boot camp is supposed to be rough to introduce you to military life but until you either become the owner or become The Chef, life is misery filled with blood, blisters and barking chefs.
I just got a new tattoo and tried H2ocean and it burned my skin and tattoo is scabbing..Anyone have any ideas on something that actually works?
Caroline,
While I can empathize with your predicament, I have been an executive chef for nearly 25 years and we want one thing from our chef de parties.... slavish, unwavering, hezbollah-like dedication to your tasks. We do not care at all, in any way, about your politics, gender, bad days, dying relatives, or family dramas. Do what I pay you for... or I will bring in the next eager candidate and try and break them as well. This whole process has a military ring to it for a reason. ONE unit functioning in perfect harmony. Spend more time honing your skills (which may be formiddable!) and less time moaning about a hierarchy that has been in place since the days of careme, and you may find that you no longer will be viewed as someone who has a misguided sense of entitlement simply because of gender. If you are a man or woman, this is immaterial... if your food is uninspiring, you will be chewed up and spit out. I am sorry that you had to learn all of this from a "school"... I prefer to hire those that are self taught. They are far more malleable and competent.
This is a man's world, but I am excited about the future of ALL qualified candidates. Perhaps this may change too, no?
Thank you so much for this. I'm a chef in Toronto Canada. It's like you were talking about my experiences. I love this life so much, and am so passionate about it, and that's what keeps me going.
Wow, I loved reading this thanks so much for sharing! I am so lucky to have you as a friend and to have had you cook for me many times!
Just my point of view...
I've been a cook for 13 years (started when I was 16). I was just saying to my wife this exact subject. I find it odd that the traditional view of "a woman's place is in the kitchen" doesn't carry over to professional cooking. (I don't believe that for a second. My wife and I share cooking since I work 5 days a week until 7:30pm).
I have worked with female cooks over the years and find them just as good if not better than some of their male counterparts. I've said this many times over the years about many areas...I want the best person for the job doing whatever it is that they're doing...they can be white...african-american...man....woman..
"Why is it that our culture accepts women as the Executive of the home kitchen, but much less often in the professional kitchen?"
The article in its entirety is so poignant and well-developed, but this question in particularly really made me think. I've never consciously realized or pondered this juxtaposition of sorts. As a proud woman who loves to cook and hopes to be a part of this industry, this article has made me even more excited about the future. You are helping to change that stereotype and I hope I may too. Change can happen with one woman at a time.
in the kitchen where they are supposed to be!!!
Having gotten four kids out of bed, fed, dressed, and to school for fifteen years without female help, I don't care where the women chefs are. I don't care where any women are. Went back to Venus hopefully.
Have you met Jackie?
Wow, what a great outlook. I learned a lot, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience. I feel so privileged to have had you cook for me a number of times!
How did the woman cross the road?
Who knows? The real question is how the heck did she get unchained and loose from the kitchen?
Many of the comments are quite troubling to me. They seem to simply accept the sexual discrimination, and put the blame on the woman by telling her to "stop crying" or "learn to lift the heavy stuff" or "just do your job". Are we truly at the point that nobody decries sexual discrimination in the work place? Nobody is actually blaming those men who discriminate? Are we truly at the point we have accepted it and tell people to live with it? That's incredibly sad.
I used to be the only male teacher in a private school. I fyou think it is only men who discriminate against women, you are crazy. Some of the worst cases I witnessed were women who were threatened by other women.
For a second I thought Caroline Jann Dunbar's article was a worthy beef. Cooking isn't all peaches and ice cream. Then I started to think of Rosie the Riveter and the conditions those ladies toiled under, their work was hot and hard and they weren't making mashed potatoes. Then I started thinking about some of the women I've worked with, both the dainty and the brash. My conclusion is this: no matter the occupation a persons personality is going to determine if the work environment is right for her/him. If you blush at a minor swear word or complain about the constant crass language, then that place is probably not for you.
I understand Caroline Jann Dunbar's instructors opinion about the Italian restaurant. It'd be all about the pasta and pinching girls bottoms. They do that in Italy.
Maybe Caroline Jann Dunbar is in the wrong part of the county. After Austin is in Texas and Texas is full of the cowboy mentality where women should be wearing a dress. Caroline could do much better than cook in Austin, both on the West coast and the East coast. She is battling perceptions and culture during a time where she doesn't have to.
In all honesty, the low pay and hours simply aren't worth it to me. I've taken culinary school classes (did not graduate, but earned all A's and I already hold a BA and MS in anthropology) and can spend 7 days a week cooking part-time at home while making a much better living for my family and being there for them. I don't cook full time, of course, but some weekends I "go on a bender" and spend 20-25 hours in my kitchen making my own veal stock, baking bread, steaming tamales, making pasta, sauces, etc. At the end of my effort, I share the fruits of my labor with friends and family and can take the apron off before 11pm.
In culinary school, I saw the sacrifices one has to make in terms of family and lifestyle and I just couldn't make those my priorities. My friends in the industry (even working at Beard-award-winning restaurants) have had their children go without health insurance and live at daycare. The chances I would make it big and get to the exec. chef level at a hot spot with a comparable salary to what I make at my company were slim.
What is sad to me about this article is that we as a culture can't seem to raise ourselves above junior-high humor. Why should anyone, male or female, have to degrade other people or accept degrading humor toward themselves to be accepted?
men are such PIGS! i just hate them so much. thats why me and my partner have chosen THE life we did. i HATE MEN.
You do? Really? Tell us all about it.
As a male having worked in two male dominated fields, I can tell you why many women have difficulty advancing in those professions. As a amle we learn early on that in order to be part of the team and build a team rapport, we have to conform and hang out with the guys outside of work. The individuals whom we calll "introverted" or "unsociable" don't succeeed as part of the team. Sometimes that means going out to lunch regularly, sometimes that means grabbing beers or talking about sports that you only started watching because your co-workers do. And there lies the crux of the problem. Women in those fields do not enjoin in such activities. Often, the concern that the in hanging out with a co-worker is starting a relationship gets in the way. Often, the view that the person is not someone they want to hang with gets in the way (we as men still hang with those "lame" co-workers because we have to work with them). And sometimes the focus on raising a family, managing a household, raising or having children are also blockers to hanging with the team, but in the end the result is the same, the women are individuals and not teammates. In an environment like a kitchen where you have to rely on others, you do not feel that you can quite trust the individual as much as you can trust the guy you spent last Friday commisserating about the Cubs always letting you down and that is the real reason women do not advance as quickly.
I'm happily married to, and co-own a restaurant with, an amazing female chef. But I will admit, twenty years or so ago, female chefs were a rarity on kitchen lines across this country. Things are on the up and up. Keep fighting the good fight, ladies.
Yes, the commercial kitchen has been a man's domain but more women are graduating from culinary schools and change will ultimately occur as more women prove they can handle the rigors of kitchen life. It is hard work, demanding, hot, sweaty and not very glamorous. You must have passion to cook well, with confidence and authority or just be downright "crazy" to be in the business but here I am loving it. Women, just do it with love and comittment and the accolades and promotions with come.
I work in a commercial kitchen. There are women who do great work (and I love working with them) and women who do terrible work (and I hate working with them). Same can be said for the men.
There is one woman who is really competent and quick, yet is really petite. She recognizes this and asks her male counterparts (usually me) to move the items for her. She is also better at some things than I am, so I ask her to do it for me (like making spring rolls).
There is also a Sous-Chef at work who is SO competent et humble that is always a pleasure to work with her. I'm convinced that she could do her daily job AND mine that I would be able to go downstairs and take a nap. She also has such great knowledge about food that I ask her for the answers. She has also helped me on my knife skills that it is because of her I am able to tourne a potato.
I say, you ignore a woman's ability in the kitchen at your own peril. Each person in the kitchen is an idividual and can be competent or incompetent, fast or slow, or any other combination of skill levels.
I too am a culinary school graduate, have been working in the industry for over 20 years and a male. This might help. First off, stop crying sexual harassment every time one of us smiles at you. Don't forget, the primary reason more employers shy away from hiring female chefs, is that there is a greater fear that they may be sued for something, they know it will just be a matter of when, not if, it will occur. Secondly, Caroline was right on here- if women want equal work and equal pay as men, for goodness sakes, don't wait for us to lift all the heavy sh*t. And there is tons of it in the profession kitchen. ;)
Thanks for the camaraderie! I'm a female chef at the world famous Palmer House in Chicago and I wouldn't have gotten to this level had I not been a strong woman willing to set an example of integrity, creativity and professionalism. Mentoring young women and setting a good example will shift the profession to be more gender balanced in the future. Keep on rocking!
awesome article about more women being excellent Chefs in major restaurants. I too am a Chef, happily a male one, however, I totally respect women who take it upon themselves to put hard work in the kitchen, on the stove, and on the fryer and ovens, to produce great-tasting meals AND not burnt neither! I applaud those women who dare to step-in the "Hells Kitchen" arena where men spew vulgar words and act-out their tantrums when things don't go their way. hehehe and I, for one, have been there many times! I was a Chef at a Le Bernardin, a 5-star restaurant in NYC for 2 yrs until I decided it was not paying me sufficiently for my cuts, my pain, and the discrimination against my "Female" co-partners. Eat well Americans...for tomorrow is another day with a new appetite in mind!
Eric Ripert? Is that you!?! What are you doing posting here?
( for the uninitiated, there are currently two and only two chefs at Le Bernardin. They are Eric Ripert who is the head chef, and Michael Laiskonis, pastry chef. Anyone who so much as took out their garbage would know the difference between a cook and a chef.)
wow I'm suprised to hear that La Bernardin is like that too, I liked Chef Rupert...not anymore
Hmmm how interesting a long distance from those kitchens to a sweet spot growing in the Texas Hill Country kitchens. Where men MAN the grills and women cater to those who require their reception/ dinner party be remembered. Food is not all about taste it seem. Albeit the high priority, clients wish to impress, and demand the quality care to each
guest. From pies coveted from the local bowling alley patrons love to surprise their well to do guest with. Women in these parts call their domain, no demand their domain to be their own. Pick up any review to these parts and there will be a women standing by her man.
You can all gobble my sausage.
Susan Spicer toured the tables @ Bayona this past thursday and talked to me/us. I have followed her career and talked to her Staff over these many years.This is a person your can wrap your career with whomever your are.Outstanding person.Superb chef
This "woman" was known to be whiner in culinary school, and cried (bawled even) on at least one occasion. There are plenty of women possessing the mettle to hang in a kitchen. I've worked with them. I respect them. And, Caroline isn't one of them. They act exactly as Caroline recommends in her screed. So take her advice, just pretend it comes from somebody with the authority to speak credibly one the subject.
This is such a beaten topic. I am a female chef. My boss is a female chef. I've worked with great male chefs. My husband is a chef. We get it. We hear this crap all the time. I am so tired of hearing this nonsense. Yes, it happens. But it happens everywhere. Get over it and cook. Stop making such an issue out of it. Put those guys in their place with your skills and they will respect you. Sure there's a turd in there somewhere, but they're everywhere. Stop beating a dead horse.
Oh and also, unfortunately, the most emotionally charged and over the top chefs I've worked for are women. Does it mean anything? No... but women aren't perfect either!
no but you can't allow or abide women being harrassed and or assaulted by simply saying " suck it up"! Things have to change and your views on this situation are irresponsible. Would you allow any man to do this to your daughter, sister, mother? and then tell THEM to suck it up? Come on, really?
Can we drop labels and look at people as individuals? Gender, race, religion, sexual orientation, political beliefs, are just starting points which are inadequate to describe an individual and his/her unique talents and gifts. Just be nice...it goes a long way
I'm a restaurant consultant and build ops systems for multi-units. I think unless you've actually been IN a restaurant kitchen you have no clue about the atmosphere. I've been treated with everything from respect to vile contempt with not much rhyme or reason for it other than I'm a woman. I would venture to guess it's one of the most sexually harassing industries out there. Just ask a server or a female bartender. Most of them won't even venture BOH for fear the Chef will call them out or act in a totally unprofessional manner. Why – in this day and age – is it acceptable for women to be treated in such a demeaning manner in ANY profession?
I guess I'm one of those cro magnon construction people, useless in a kitchen and a danger at the stove which is why I run equipment for a living. The same can be said for my sister who ,,I'm proud to say,, can run a bulldozer better than I can. If you want to fit in with the guys just do the job well and everything should fall into place. Lastly,,don't sweat the heavy lifting. If somethings too heavy for you to lift safely then get help,,and that goes for men as well as women,,believe me there is no shame in it,, and if someone refuses to help you then tell them to go eff themselves. Best of luck to you Jann!!
there to busy in their own kitchens. make me a samwhich
http://dogdays-phoenix.blogspot.com/
funny blog
I would rather open a catering service after I finish Culinary school or do something where I'm my own boss and I don't have to deal with the kind of high pressure that ruins cooking for most. I would rather have the time to cook a meal properly (which also prevent me from wasting food if I'm in a rush and make a mistake) and have people enjoy the best of the best I can offer than have to rush and worry about people complaining that their food isn't ready in 15 minutes (raised in Italy I was used to wait at a restaurant for an hour or even two for my meal but that's how we prefer it because we spend that time with our family and friends talking instead of complaining that the food isn't ready yet). Some people can produce acceptable food in the amount of time people request it, but it also means that you will experience a quickly prepared risotto, or a sauce that hasn't had enough time to cook - some people complain that you should always make food fresh ready to order no matter what, which is impossible with a lot of slow cooked food. Some food even takes days of cooking to be prepared properly and can never be reproduced (even if you can still make a good tasting dish) in the amount of time they expect it to be ready. As a caterer I would be able to prepare dishes that I took time preparing - and also, as a chef I wouldn't be able to offer courses to the local families on how to cook and feed your family a healthy and balanced affordable meal. As a chef you don't have time to give back to the community - many women enjoy helping those who can't help themselves. Heck, I doubt that as a chef they would allow me to have a day where I feed the homeless. Kudos to the women who don't mind that every aspect of their life is focused on dealing with a fast paced world of the restauranteur. Sadly, a lot of people (men and women) lose their passion for cooking only because they chose the wrong outlet for their talent. I know of a man who was a brilliant cook from his early teens and even got his degree in the CA. But after working as a chef in a fast paced restaurant environment he eventually quit and wasted his talent working in an office. Sometimes I think, if you want your food fast, then go to McDonalds. If you want your food to taste good, then you can wait an hour as the magic happens in the kitchen.
You need to get out of this business NOW!!! Anyone who thinks that their risotto is prepared from scratch per order is higher than my dishwashers!!! You always cook your risotto to "a la minute". Finish with hot stock, butter and/or cheese and you are golden. And you better get ready for an eye-opener when you get into catering and think it's all gonna be about laboriously and painstakingly creating your family masterpiece. Your clients are going to tear you to shreds!!! There will be countless times that something will not be right for them and you must change it immediately.
Good luck.
Sexism is as alive and well as racism. Probably even more, in fact.
Where are the scholarships for men, since graduation from university is already 40/60 (men/women) and declining for men? Where are the male elementary school teachers? Sexism is always wrong. I am a firm believer that society was incredibly moronic for going through 5000 years of scientific discovery keeping half the population out of it (i.e. women). But articles like this aren't helpful and do nothing to truly address the problems.
As a guy my recommedation for females is don't try to be one of the guys. I say this to your benefit because that is like trying to change your gender for the job. Reason for that is lot's of guy stuff just won't interst you and might even offend you. Trying to act like it's fine is very easily seen by the guys around you and eventually you just hold resentment trying to fit in. Any female that want to be treated equally or accepted equally is simple. DO THE SAME WORK and do not expect ANY special treatment at any time during your work time. Remember you are equal live up to it. I'm not telling you to hurt or kill yourself but whether is trash, grease and reasonable heavy items. Get the job done and DO NOT ACCEPT ANY GESTURE OF A GENTLEMAN IT"S NOT A DATE. In turn you want them to treat you more like a sister than one of the guys. Your still accepted and equal as long as you live up to the equality. I hope it makes sense.
Norm, I agree with you almost 100%. As a female cook, I've always gotten along the best when I didn't try to change who I am to better fit in. I'll weigh in on the topics that interest me, participate in whatever shenanigans I find fun and keep my mouth shut when the guys are discussing their NCAA brackets. As far as doing every single thing your male counterparts do, that is a top priority with the caveat that you have to know your limits. Very early in my career I would go out of my way to prove that I was as good or better at the yucky, physically demanding jobs. I took this way too far too many times and earned myself a permanent shoulder injury. Now, and for the rest of my career, I will have to ask for help or find a stepladder whenever I have to lift something heavy above my head. This doesn't slow me down much, but it has taught me that some things are more important than bravado and keeping up with the Joneses. I'm not setting the feminist movement back decades and throwing the restaurant into chaos if I take two trips from the walk-in instead of one. Climbing a rack of shelves to grab a cookbook after refusing your tall colleague's help is just silly. Besides, you'd better believe you're the one diving into a puddle of god-knows-what on the floor and reaching your arm elbow shoulder deep to unclog a blocked floor drain! (little arms fit down the pipe.)
Seriously as a female Chef in production kitchens I could tell you stories that would make your head spin! There is so much sexua harassment and assault in these kitchens, it's no wonder why women don't want to become Chefs. Caroline got this 100% right. Why can't men respect female co-workers like they would they're own daughters , sisters or mothers? I now own my own catering business, no macho bullshit goes on in my kitchen!
So you want us to treat you like we would our sisters, daughters, and mothers? Would you treat them as if they were your brothers, sons, or fathers? I highly doubt it. In fact I would be more akin to believe you acted like a "girl" around them and are surprised by the results. You just completely invalidated the author's point, to grow up and take it like a woman. You clearly quit because you couldn't handle the pressure that everybody goes through.
Who are you? I did quit under the pressure absolutely and I opened my own business how is that undermining what the author was trying to put across? I think it illustrates it and answers the question "where are all the women Chef's", answer, they're running they're own kitchens!. Anyone who knows me personally knows I'm absolutely not a prissy girl I can lift more than you, change out the fryer oil myself, carry full sheets of product, clean out the freezer and then work a full shift. I carry more and work harder than any man I ever worked with. I got tired of working harder, longer and better, for less pay and respect, now im in control and I'm happy. GO FUCK YOURSELF TROLL
Thanks for sharing! It's so interesting for me to hear the experiences of women in other male-dominated fields. Bravo to CNN for giving coverage to these issues!
As a female mathematician, I know how difficult it can be to fit in with a predominantly male set of colleagues. I've learned my fair share about video games, Star Trek and football so that I can participate in conversations with "the guys" but I've heard (from a few of my closer male friends) that the discussions are much more guarded when I'm in the room. It bothers me that I change the social dynamic without meaning to.
It sounds like we've both been plagued by "non-threatening" female stereotypes in our respective careers. You've noticed that some customers are less comfortable with a small female chef than with a large, beefy-looking guy at the helm. In my case, students tend to assume that I'll be an "easy grader" because I'm a friendly, petite female, and then they get angry when I grade them on the same curve that the other professors use.
Nonetheless, I'm proud that I've stuck with doing work that I love, in spite of the obstacles, and you should be proud too. If we stand our ground and encourage other women to enter our chosen fields, then hopefully one day the culture will change and we won't feel so out of place.
Best of luck with your career! I hope that one day I'll have the opportunity to eat at your restaurant.
Wow. I've not read such sexist comments by anyone for years. From the article, to Jackie, to the people responding to Jackie. WTF???? What world are you living in? Everyone seems keen on skewering the others. I am a female that works in the male-dominated industry of construction. I love it. Are there jerks? Sure. Were there jerks in female dominated industries I worked in previously? You bet. I'd pick the male dominated over the female dominated industry any day. That way I don't have to deal with psychologically impaired people like Jackie. Sorry honey but you need to see a therapist – honestly.
@ the author
Good article. You're right: in a world full of heavy sh*t, we all need to lift a little.
I have seen several female Chefs. One thing they had in common was they were tough as nails and took crap from nobody. Sounds just like a male Chef. Doesn't matter if you're a man or woman, if you are a little girl a kitchen is no place for you. I dare anyone to try and treat the female Chefs I have known as girls. They'll stab you!
I agree the plethora of "reality shows" dealing with cooking has everyone in a kitchen thinking they should be a star. Nope, sorry, someone with 5 years of experience (or less!!!) does NOT a "Top Chef" make.
This gets so tiring; like people who play the race card.
Its because women don't think of cooking as a competitive death match.
Very nice piece there. I agree. I used to work in an Italian kitchen with all men and I held my own, I worked the crazy hours (5am-12:30pm) in the busy seasons, I did all my own heavy lifting and all my own prep work. I was a pastry chef there, but would also work the line and do the grill, salad and pasta stations. It was very much fun for me. Until another female joined and she had the men doing all her work for her. It drove me crazy. I eventually left there and moved to Boston. But I will never forget all the fun I had there. I hope that more women who can hold there own do take jobs like that,
Well told story. And you're an admirable person for reflecting and reporting on this life in this way.
As a line cook and chef of 20 years, I've worked with very few women in professional kitchens. At the beginning, I learned the Italian sauces and recipes from the Italian Grandmas I worked with, but after moving to Denver, I've only worked with two women that could hold their shit on line. Which is pretty good, considering I've worked with maybe 8 female cooks total. BTW, not saying I or men in general are the shit, I might crash my kitchen tomorrow!)
If you take the bait you deserved to get hooked.
Thanks for those who posted meaningful comments about the article. The rest...waste of time.
Where are the articles questioning why females are not taking jobs collecting trash, digging ditches, or otherwise working in dangerous or dirty jobs? Oh, that is right, the only jobs females should have to take are the safe, clean ones. When females in the U.S. have to register with selective service or face prison, I will care what jobs females are able to get.
Well, how about you write such an article?
Interestingly enough, when my company recently had a couple of forklift/handler slots open at our distribution warehouse, probably 1/3 of the applicants were female. I was genuinely surprised by the number, considering it does buck the trend you describe. Perhaps there is hope after all.
Are you under the impression that it's women who have made the draft only for men? No... that was decided by men. And seeing as congress is still made up of mostly old men, it's likely going to stay that way for some time.
Wow folks. Just yesterday women were complaining about how they do all the cooking and now they're complaining about men being Chefs. What gives? So you missed out on a position. open your own restaurant. You don't hear males out there giving women grief because they beat us at an interview. Grow up.
Hello people. If you would like to read more information about female chefs, here is the link.
http://www.reporterus.com/archives/8687
She burned my Paella at Fino a while back.
What world are you living in? Just judging by my friends and acquaintances who are all between 35 and 45, women of our generation DON'T cook. All of my male friends do most of the cooking in their households. You must be living in the 1930's. They haven't made a woman that cooks in almost half a century.
Okay, "gentile" is noun for a non-Jewish person (or non-Mormon if it is being used in a Mormon context), or an adjective relating to such a person. "Genteel" is adjective meaning "polite, refined, or respectable, often in an affected or ostentatious way."
Please do not leave all the proofreading to automated spellcheck
This article is complete drivel. Just another article proving the real feminist agenda is to de-mean and belittle men, as well as form biased conclusions to justify their perceived inequities. The proof is in this sentence and when the author wrote:
"Many women love to get culinary creative in the privacy of their own abode and many men who don’t cook professionally can’t figure out scrambled eggs."
The depiction of men as brutes and lesser beasts has become commonplace in articles such as these, and really, it is getting old. There are just as many women who don't know one thing about cooking in the kitchen, and you have made the horrible generalization that if you are a man and don't cook professionally, you are more likely to be a bad cook than a good cook. I hope you were just trying (poorly) to inject humor at this point to keep your audience interested at this pathetic and futile rant of feminine superiority.
You are naive to think that men do not treat other men in the same manner as you have been treated. I've seen firsthand that, as is the case in many job positions, there is derision, and a resistance to accept new coworkers into a circle of friends. Stop hiding behind the excuse of "Oh, I am being treated this way because I am a woman." Maybe you are being treated the same way other men would be treated if they are in your position, and you are socially awkward enough that you perceive some outside inequality to be at play here, rather than your own ineptitude of forming true relationships. Men all over the country work with others that they don't have a cameraderie with, and have worked with them for years. It happens, deal with it, and stop blaming the world around you for your own shortcomings.
The sooner you stop belittling men and making them out to be the enemy that is trying to hold you down at every turn, the sooner I will be more receptive of your rants.
I don't know, I didn't see any of these generalizations in this article. Are you sure you read it? Like that article up there?
Where does it say men are assholes? It sounds like she's saying some men are assholes (which, being a man, I will confirm is true) and that some are not (like the chef who gave her a recommendation to the Italian restaurant).
Furthermore, she gives advice to men (don't treat women like girls) and to women (don't act like girls) pretty equally.
I never once used the word assholes. That is entirely your verbiage. Did you read what I wrote? Like that one up there? Stop using ad hominem, I see right through it.
You're absolutely right. Apologies for paraphrasing.
Please insert "making them out to be the enemy that is trying to hold you down at every turn" where I put "assholes".
Peace and love little buddy.
The depiction of men as brutes and lesser beasts in published articles is getting old? It's not even 1,000 years old. Human history, of which most is ultimately a depiction of men behaving like brutes and lesser beasts, has at least an order of magnitude's advantage on that number.
You falsely equate living today to living 1,000 years in the past, where things were different and different standards applied. You need to wake up and look at the reality: women are far more equal in today's society than in ages past. While there may exist some inequalities (but I absolutely do NOT believe this author is listing an accurate one here), it works both ways. Where are the female waste management employees? Where are the female construction workers? Where are the females being forced to register for the military? It's a two way street and people have to grow up and deal with the realities.
Also, we don't live 1,000 years ago, so your point really doesn't matter. You have no frame of reference and you're not making a valid argument towards anything useful for today's society.
Right on, Caroline! And for those of you using the comments thread to air your grievances about the opposite sex or your own, save it for another time or place. Kitchen work IS hard work, whether you are a male OR a female. Impossibly long hours, rushes that when you're in the weeds, you pray for death rather than one more ounce of work, hurting back and throbbing feet...the whole nine yards. I think the point that Caroline is trying to make is that although it's tough work and generally, by those "in the know" about the restaurant business, a man's fortress behind the line, women deserve some culinary credibility, too! Caroline, if you haven't read Blood, Bones and Butter by Gabrielle Hamilton yet, order it on Amazon and get reading. I believe you two will share a lot of similar sentiments about what's it like being a woman in the restaurant industry. She's tough, fierce, brave and hardworking, just like you! Gender knows no role when it comes to achievement in this day in age, and your ability to speak out about it just proves the truth as such! Awesome article!
What a whiner! You only graduated cooking school in Fall 2010! There are a heck of a lot of more qualifed cooks then you, both male and female. You obviously want to be a media star without putting in the years of effort need to become a great chef. I call it Food Network syndrome. A lot of people have been sold on culinary as a career as a result. You will find another profession in two years, and it will not be because of discrimination.
There are countless men that are far better than the ones that you described Jackie, which you have always overlooked because they unfortunately they may have the physical appearance that you seek after, which you likely described as "not my type" and then go for the losers, who ultimately turned out to be....losers.
In my opinion women are generally not very creative in the kitchen ......
The truth is I cook all the time, but I cannot lift a 25 lb box! It is okay for a woman to accept help from men for physically strenuous activities in her own kitchen. Why should I waste my efforts in areas where I am decidedly weaker than men? I have a brain and I know how to use it wisely!
Why should a man have to do YOUR job? This is why you will never succeed in a professional kitchen. There are dishwashers who can lift a 25 pound box AND cook better than you, without having gone to cooking school. Like Emeril says, "It ain't rocket science"
If you can't lift a 25lb box, you need to get yourself checked out. Are you serious!? That's the weight of a small dog!!
of course women don't want to Work in a kitchen for pay! for the love of god! we worked too damn hard to get real jobs that DO NOT involve cooking, laundry, childcare or other domestic duties. if we wanted to do that crap we'd be home doing it and not out working in something fulfilling like engineering, law, or whatever. let the men do the grunt work in the kitchen, women already know how awful it is, no wonder we avoid it, anyone who ever made a thanksgiving dinner for more than 4 people would know better than to take a crap job in a kitchen – women are too smart to do a dumb job like that. LET the men do it LOL!!!!
So this explains why, every time I turn on my cable TV, at least 3/4 of the cooking shows are hosted by women? Me thinks Ms. Dunbar hates men and wants more eye candy at the office!
pssst, I will let you in on a super secret bit of information.
TV isn't real.
No, really, it is manipulated for profit. SHOCKING!
Bah-ha-ha-ha! You fuuuunee! No it's like WWE wrestling – ALL REAL ALL THE TIME!
Boo hoo. My life is so tough but I am going to break my arm patting myself on the back for dealing with such adversity. News flash – the world s not fair, life is not fair and you are owed nothing. Shut up and do your job. If you don't like it, do something else. Those of us here in the real world deal with adversity and stress every day. You can complain about it or you can do something about it. The people that succeed are those that respond to it in ways other that penning solipsistic self-serving cr@p.
Thanks for the entertaining and educational look at your experience in the (professional) kitchen...I love you mom's advice! Great job!
woman should be cooking not man. its their job provide meals for the family and men.
Ha, ha, ha, Got any more jokes?
That idea is ridiculous and old-fashioned (sorry if i made a spelling error) so GET REAL!!!!!! That is a tradition made by men, for men. Yeah, women are usually better in that area, but I'm a woman and I can't cook to save my life.
Women should make the man's dinner, wash his clothes, have his babies and rub his shoulders, and men should not slap their women so hard when they don't. This would make things so much better for both.
men are pigs, always have been and always will be. they'll always stand in the way of women who try to do something with their lives.
lots of times, we just get fed up with it. every single day, every single hour, to put up with asinine comments, sexist bigotry, a–hole attitudes...it's just not worth it! now, of course, to even state the obvious is called "whining," since asking males to engage in self-examination is like asking glenn beck to be rational.
and btw, the comments here will just prove me correct. but the males leaving them are too dumb to realize this–WHICH IS THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Bitter much?
That's the truth.
no, i'm not bitter. i'm just telling the truth. it's funny how no one actually responds to what i'm saying (since it's true) and instead throw personal insults or pick on my use of capitalization (wow, great point!).
men are pigs, and they will always be an obstacle to women who want to do something with their lives. end of story. now unless anyone has a real response, they can forget about "bitter" remarks or pontificating about capitalization.
Your emotionally driven statement that "All men are pigs" is obviously a result of some bad relationship/experience either at home or in the workplace. Your argument has no logical basis. It is simply fueled by anger and resentment. Saying "all men are pigs" is just the same as saying "all women are psychos" or "all minorities are criminals." As you state in your rant, you have obviously been passed over for some kind of position or career and you assume it was a male who caused your failure. Well perhaps you should examine yourself again. Maybe you are standing in your own way, blinded and biased by your anger and resentment. Working in the professional field, there are many women who are above me in the food chain, and they have earned it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and blaming others for your shortcomings.
@Steve – I don't understand your point. All women are psychos. But specifically, Jackie is a jerk. Jerks know no gender. And, as far as being held back: My wife is a physician AND has a PhD. Not really "held back". Maybe you're held back because people don't like your attitude. That has more to do with being held back in today's corporate culture than any other reason.
Again, don't question anyone's intelligence if you cannot even do something as basic as capitalize the first word in a sentence. Your third grade teacher failed you.
Saved all your capital letters for your last "sentence" I see.
Don't call anyone, especially an entire group (way to generalize!), dumb when you cannot even master third grade English.
Jackie is just trying to save time. I kinda agree, but that's beside the point. Why is it that people always find something negative to say about other people's tendencies? Some people just don't like capital letters.
She's trying to save time? Really?
That's not a tendency. That's laziness and disrespect to the English language.
Get therapy.
Sounds like you need to get laid!
That comment just proved Jackie's point.
I'm a bitter lonely old hag and all of you will see that and call me names. Are you making excuses for your failures or your inadequacies? I ask because I am sure that nothing could ever be your fault.
C U Next Tuesday.
D oesn't
I nvolve
C ommon sense or
K nowledge
sweetie, come up with something original. why didn't you say something about my period, or a sandwich? i understand males have problems with language and verbal communication, but this is getting ridiculous.
You are obviously the one with the language problems, Jackie.
Yous damn women should stop stealin our names first, Jack is a man's name.
And Jackie is a female name.
U(you)
R (are)
An idiot.
No nice person would say that.
Anyone who says something like that is ignorant and a jerk.
Some people think it's cool to have a name like Jackie,
So I'm defending her. My name is like that too.
(PS read vertical to see the truth about u)
@Ana- Hear, hear.
@Ana: I'm sure Messrs. Chan, Gleason, Martling, Andreozi, etc. will take that under advisement.
Jackie, or it's complete form: Jacqueline, is a French female offering of the name Jacques (i.e. Jacob.) As with the majority of names of European adoption, it is a derivative of what was originally a male name. This does not, however, make it male. The derivation is intentional. My five year old son's name is Cameron. Although used as both a male and female first name, it is in fact actually a Scottish surname.
At the end of the day names are intended simply to represent unique identifiers. This allows individual address, much as a file name or postal code does.
Male/female attribution would be unnecessary, were it not for the need of the sender or transmitter of information to format the data a certain way based on the receiver's gender. This speaks more to transmission protocols and communication types, which I think could be said in the most general sense are different between males and females. To that point, however, I believe personality type (i.e. Myers-Briggs) to be a greater discriminator in how data must be formatted prior to delivery.
As for women in the kitchen, I can think of no reason a woman should not be able to excel in that environment. There are no requirements of a physical or mental nature that would inhibit her success, and the kitchen represents one of the most highly developed human environments with regards to tool development. Individual criteria such as natural affinity and talent, patience, motor control, and cognitive function would seem to be the most likely discriminators when considering the degree of success for any given human being, be they of male or female gender.
Well said. The prejudice comes from all sides, from men and women and from every color and creed of male on the planet. The misogyny I put up with on a daily basis is horrifying. And women who don't work, who are mommies, are happy because their husbands hate us. It makes them feel secure. I don't feel like it is getter better, I feel like it is getting worse.
i just feel sorry for those women, because they're going to get a rude awakening when their husbands dump them for the secretary in a few years.
the worst is woman on woman crime, because we need to learn solidarity. but when they get to divorce court, they're going to be happy for all those things feminists fought for, believe me! then they'll learn.
@Jackie – Ah, the truth finally comes out. Left you for the secretary, eh? That's too bad. Maybe if you stopped making broad generalizations you'd be able to see that there are a lot of decent people out in the world, and some of them are even male! Shocking, I know.
Not ALL men are pigs. Some are really nice and responsible. I have the misfortune to know a lot of men who are pigs, though...
well not ALL sharks will bite your arm off, but i still think the vast majority that will give reason for concern.
You have a point there...
I love you Jackie. Can we mate?
I agree with you that anger should never be the force behind any statement on societal problems but I do agree with Jackie and think your use of "bitter" reveals the attitude toward women who speak up. Unfortunately, the problem today is with women being held back in subtle but pervasive ways and NOT speaking up enough. I don't think it is in general women feeling sorry for themselves. Also, Jackie didn't discount other forms of discrimination that also exist. Women like Jackie who share their personal story and feelings on this issue ARE doing something about it by sharing on a public forum like this and should be applauded so more women feel comfortable sharing. I hope we can get past the predictable language like "bitter" and "whining" which are just condescending and dismissive and actually hear what more women have to say– women AND men need to work on this.
Nothing wrong with speaking up against injustice. It's how our country go it start. However, the difference is the way in which the arguments are presented. If an injustice is professionally and logically argued, then I find it valid....but using semi-clever word puzzles (D: doesn't I: involve C: common sense or K: knowledge) actually hurts the cause. Arguments like this come off as childish and uneducated and therefore will not be taken seriously. If you truly want to stand up and fight against something you feel is wrong, do it in a manner in which people will actually take you seriously.
I think the use of D) I) and so on was just her responding to others on their level considering the comments they made. lol.
The comment before hers ended with "C U Next Tuesday" which spells out..... I think I support Jackie's comeback to that one. Although, we can all do without it and step up the discussion to something more professional and serious and not dismiss the very real problem as a joke.
"Women like Jackie are doing a thing by sharing"
OMFG, right. I am doing a thing by typing away at my keyboard and getting sooo many wimmin to read my post. You qualify for the "sammich-bringer of the year" award. (But Jackie wins it)
I can't believe this conversation is still going on. Here it is in a nutshell (concise and full of small words so you can follow along):
1. Stop complaining. Life is not fair and you are entitled to nothing but an opportunity.
2. If you work hard and you are good at what you do, you will excel (Anita Lo, Amanda Frietag, April Bloomfield).
3. Jackie is a whiny bitter pain in the ass. Her ad hominem (oops, sorry, I let my education show) opinions about men are no more accurate or valid than stereotypes about women, minorities or gays. She should not be taken seriously, as she is an idiot.
4. If all of you would spend less time making excuses and worrying about what everyone else was doing in life, you;d be better off.
5. I am amazed by the amount of people talking about "fitting in". Be yourself, be an individual. Otherwise you run the risk of being a disenfranchised phony hated by everyone. Right Jackie?
And for the record, I called her a cunt. She came out attacking men – don't pick fights and not expect repercussions. Anyone that defends her and fails to acknowledge that (1) she is wrong and (2) she's a cunt, then you are all cunts too.
Jackie is a whining, misandrist sow. She always has been and always will be. Her responses to people here just prove this.
Asking females to critically examine the decisions that THEY make that lead to their failures in life is a waste of time because many, like Jackie, are not smart or rational enough to do so. Instead, they spew hatred toward all men. And they expect men "to put up with asinine comments, sexist bigotry, a–hole attitudes...it's just not worth it!"
The way Jackie presents herself here leads me to believe that her problems are of her own creation. Not that she will be able to figure that out because she is either too angry or too stupid to think rationally. Of course, she will respond that it is all the fault of men.
The posts defending her just prove that there are females stupid enough to support any crap spewed about men, regardless of how childish and irresponsible the comments are. The females leaving these posts just prove that many, if not most, females are deep-seated sexist sows.
Please read a book on misogyny and present facts before leaving a heavy comment again. And no one knows Jackie, this discussion isn't about her. It's about sexism.
@Jackie:Starting from that posture, no rational person is going to listen to you. Opening with a bigoted and sexist barrage of insults only proves that the characteristics you attribute to men can apply equally to women. Indeed your post only confirms that not only can those characteristics apply to women they do apply to atleast one. You aren't making well reasoned statements that prove your point, you are instead creating a caricature of a resentful hypocrite.
Oink! Oink!
Holy crap, Jackie, ease up a bit! Not every single problem in the world was caused by males. They are not all pigs, irresponsible, inconsiderate or losers. Just because you haven't found one yet that wasn't all of those things doesn't mean that the "good guys" don't exist. I've been married and divorced twice – once by my choice and once because he cheated – and though I don't plan on getting married again – ever – it's not because I hate men. I simply find I'm a better person on my own. It hasn't turned me into a bitter, spiteful person. It's made me realize who I am and how to best live my life.
coming from a woman... men are not pigs – a few are, but most are not – the same can be said about women, using a different discriptive word – a few are, but most are not. With a negative blanket statement like that, it's no wonder you've received all of the nasty responses. While I do not know you, you do come off as bitter and I can only imagine that comes through in real life. I'm sorry for you.
Caroline, I never realized how male-dominated the kitchen was. Thanks for the entertaining telling of your experiences and lets hope that kitchens come into the 21st (or even late 20th) century.
I work in a male-dominated field, too. Engineering. You hit the nail on the head regarding fitting in. It is not about becoming one of the boys, it's about doing your best at whatever you're doing – regardless of your sex – and the ones who are worth their salt will accept you. The ones who don't are the ones who lose out When you suck-up and try too hard, it will back-fire on you every time. GoodONya, Girlfriend, for figuring that out! Many women never do!
@AleeD
Yeah, Engineering is a male dominated field, but it is full of well educated, post-feminism, white collar guys who are much more sensitive (on the whole) to political correctness, etc. The kitchen is still, in many ways, a bastion of traditional chauvanistic attitudes, so it is a harder nut to crack. It's gonna take time and more women putting up with stuff to get to a more level playing field.
In the end, the answer is the same even if the odds are steeper - you need to be comfortable doing all the same work the guys do, and you need to excel in some obvious way to get ahead. They aren't gonna stop noticing that you're a woman, so you can be a little feminine if you want, just don't go overboard. (i.e. lipstick is fine but night-club makeup will kill your credibility)
Wow. Really? How long did you say you've worked in the engineering field? Apparently not long because your assumptions are way off.
Education does not equate to being wise or open-minded. Misogyny is not influenced by the color of one's shirt collar. There are plenty of well-educated people in all professions who, to this very day, believe that women should be bare-foot & pregnant. And I would never let that influence my career. Never.
@someguy- I work in an engineering field, and let me tell you- these guys are often the worst when it comes to being biased against women. There's a well known wide gender gap in engineering, and there are so many old white engineers who don't feel women are smart enough to be in the field. It's really quite sad.
Totally agreed. I'm in aerospace engineering as well. And my mother was piercing the medical field's male domination by attending medical school in the early 80's. Both of us have always agreed with you, never lose your femininity, but don't lose your shit, either. Once male coworkers realize they can trust you to do your job, your gender is never an issue again.
Woman's work is in the kitchen ..... Unless the pay is good .
men's work is in dirty ditches and dangerous construction sites–that is, before this male cause recession sent men onto to couches with beer bottles. this is why domestic violence rates have gone through the roof, and hospitals are dealing with an influx of women and children with injuries.
You must be a complete joy to live with.
Well, Jackie without these Construction men then we will have no grand architecture buildings that exist as we see today - somebody has to build the buildings.
Thank you for articulating exactly how many if not most women feel but don't want to say it because they know they'll be told in some condescending tone they're "lonely" or "bitter." I, by the way, am a joy to live with and it's irrelevant to this post anyway. Since when do personal opinions make someone unlikable? I accept people for what they believe whether I agree or not. More men should do the same.
"Male caused recession"? Actually, the recession was caused by Democrats who forced banks to loan money to people who couldn't pay it back. Women are more likely to vote for Democrats, therefore, the recession was caused by women. Grow up.
Ha! Jackie you are so right. @Kile, you wouldn't know "grown up" if it bit you in the backside. To wit: you labor under the delusion that Democrats caused the recession. Any`one with any brains at all knows this is not true, but you go ahead and make stuff up if it makes you feel better. Now that you feel better, do you also not have the brains to grasp that Democrats might also be men? Most REAL men are Democrats, in any case.
@Kile Anderson: The ression was not caused by Democrats who forced banks to lend money to people that could not repay the loan; it was caused by greedy banks that are mostly Republican money hungry people to pluck the eye balls out of ordinary people. The criminals who knew better than giving loans to people they knew could not afford them. The same banks that gave loans in high risk areas and to people who bought homes for mega dollars but were the first to let them go. I am quite sure, the person that made most money out of this blunder were Republicans.
"Where are all the women chef's." Barefoot, having babies and bringing me my beer. opened. and cold. just like they should!
Just being cheeky . I knew it would spur some good comments . I love to cook & yes women seem to be doing better during this recession . Just having fun . All in jest .
Glenn: Way to troll, Goofball! Sure, it's all fun and games 'til some bitter, angry "Jackie" posts some stupid generalization (redundant much?) pokes a stick in someone's eye! ;)
Jackie, if you post statements like you did about men, you have to expect someone to post similarly about women – or more specifically YOU. You're hurt & angry – got it. But take a deep breath and choose your words more carefully so they will be more effective. Spouting off like you have makes you look ignorant and ineffective.
"... men [sic] they'll always stand in the way of women"
Bull. The only thing standing in the way of a woman ... is herself. If you have a goal that is important to you, then there's nothing that can stand in your way. If you start placing blame and spouting excuses as to why things aren't getting done, then you give up too easily.
If you're driving your car on a road and there's a boulder in the road, you don't just throw-up your hands and stop your ride. You find some way to get around it, don't you? Goals should be treated the same way.
Well said,Job well done and please cook for me the next time I'm in Austin.
she could cook for me too if you know what I mean
I graduated from the CIA in Hyde Park at age 45. My chef instructors were, for the most part, amused by the fact that I actually thought I could make a living as a chef, given my age and my sex. I have worked as a chef every day since the week I graduated from CIA. I love my work and I am very, very good at what I do. I make a 6 figure salary, and I know there are other women like me, out there but unknown. Intimidated by men? Trying to compensate for something I think other people see in a male chef and not in me? Not even for one moment, ever.