 November 16th, 2010
01:00 PM ET
Quoth commenters on our recent post It's not Thanksgiving without...:
Earlier today, Eatocracy shared another installment of our T-Minus guide to a laid back Thanksgiving, centering some of our efforts around ways to make all guests - even non meat-eaters - feel welcome in your home on a holiday. Silly us. I've been the vegetarian at the passive-aggressive table on Thanksgiving and assure you that it was no picnic. Aunt dragged me to her friends' home, disallowed me from bringing along any food I could actually eat and the hosts, whom she'd pre-warned of my freakish eating habits, made sure the meat - which was in every dish but the bread - was in big chunks so I could easily just "pick it out." Aunt compounded my discomfort by pulling me aside to chastise me for not just gobbling down drumsticks and bacon-laden casseroles. Upshot - I sat at the kids' table, refusing dishes as politely as possible (no sense in wasting food for show), gnawing at burned dinner rolls and wishing I'd just been allowed to bring along some roasted veggies to share. But no - that would have been "rude." |
  Recent Posts
Jesus Christ ice pops made from frozen, inadvertently blessed wine. No, we can't believe we typed that, either. http://t.co/8eLcJriH 10:23 pm UTC, May 18 2012
Our @kittenwithawhip is moderating Restaurant 101 @GoogaMooga Sun. 11:15-12:30 w/ panelists @asytsma @kkrader & @mylastsupper. C'mon by! 9:34 pm UTC, May 18 2012
If you had Zuck-style cash, where would you take your pals for IPO dinner? We're thinking we'd just rent out New Orleans. You? 8:23 pm UTC, May 18 2012
RT @ChefBradleyO: @eatocracy In its honor, a twice-baked blue cheese souffle, for your consideration: http://t.co/swcaPfNX 7:50 pm UTC, May 18 2012
RT @qualityrye: Writing a four-star review can be as stressful as a goose egg b/c if you get it wrong, you've wasted your readers' hard-earned $$ @eatocracy 5:11 pm UTC, May 18 2012
 |
 |
|
© 2010 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertise with us | About us | Contact us | Help | Advertising Practices
I'm a carnavegatarianavor...I only eat vegatarian animals!
I have been a vegetarian for a few years and Thanksgiving is always one of my favorite meals to eat. I am usually the chef for the event so I suppose it is a bit easier for me. I have a large family (there are going to be 14 people here this year and that is a lot smaller than normal) and I am the only vegetarian. I have no problem cooking the turkey and the gravy like always, but as for all of the sides I find that it is just as easy to make them vegetarian without any cost in terms of taste. This year I'm planning on a big turkey like always in addition to about 14 sides: home made rolls, stuffing, buttermilk mashed potatoes, orange sweet potatoes, turnips, apple cheddar and spinach salad, brussels sprouts, green beans with caramelized onions and almonds... I could go on. The point I'm trying to make is that I'm a vegetarian and I never go hungry, and the rest of my family who aren't vegetarians are more than happy.
Also, I don't know that anyone needs to get into an ethics debate about vegetarianism over Thanksgiving dinner. Family meals can be stressful enough. But that's just my two cents.
I am a vegetarian because I became aware of factory farms' impact on the earth, health of the animals, and overall safety of the food we eat. I think it is in everyone's best interest to make informed decisions about the food we eat. You can find turkeys that are free range!
I'm pretty sure that Thanksgiving is a time when you get together with your for family to spend some time with them and give thanks- well- for whatever is important to you- good health- a place to live- a job – your family. The food really should come second. That being said – half of my family are vegetarians- the other half eat everything. So we all make food that everyone can eat. The meat eaters make the turkey, ham and stuffing and the everyone make the other sides vegetarians. Green bean casserole and mashed potatoes don't even contain meat. If the veggies want more than side dishes someone is more that free to bring some fake meat. Don't really see the issue here- family and friends should accomondate everyone. People who are asking others to "pick out the meat chunks" really don't have a handle on why people are vegetarians.
Yes. Oh, yes. Those meat-eating carnivores can be an angry lot, indeed. Perhaps you should have worn a necklace made of freshly roasted garlic bulbs to ward off the meaner ones? Next year, simply go in peace and hold you lips tight (as you wear your t-shirt reading, "I don't eat non-human animals!"). Hang tough, hang true my friend!
Chucky
http://chucky-thefatvegetarian.blogspot.com/
I've been veg for 24 years and my grandmother was veg for 90 out of her 98 years but made a turkey for my meat eating grandfather and the cats and dogs.The holiday celebrates abundance and harvest so lets focus on greens,corn,cranberries and I bring in Tofurky for my coworkers as I work holidays.Many new Americans are veg and they like variety and a Native American woman at work is veg and said her tribe was always.I see turkey eating as celebrating ritual slaughter or yearly genocide of birds so I turn it into thanks for produce.
I've been a vegetarian since the age of 15 and for the past few years we have been invited to the home of a friend of my husband's family. I spoke with the hostess weeks in advance the first year we were invited, explained what I do and don't eat and offered to bring some sides to share. She told me to not even worry about it, she was thrilled for the chance to get creative with veggie dishes. I'm always cautious eating out or eating at peoples homes who don't know that some things do have meat products (ex. Stove Top stuffing even if cooked outside the bird still has chicken fat/broth), I'm never rude about it...if I'm unsure I just stick to salad. She has always made a point to tell me what is "safe" before the meal.
On the flip side, my hubby eats meat and when I have guests over I have no problem cooking meat for them. It's all about respect for your fellow human
love all the vegan comments about how they "cant" eat meat...LOL
like me saying i "cant" eat lima beans...same both ways- we just CHOOSE not to.
Lucky for me I dont know any vegtablearians.
PS- I dont CARE if you dont eat meat....your call...good for you Special K...
But I am going ot enjoy a nice turkey that day. And a bleeding steak the next day(walk it by the grill- good enough- a good vet could revive it!)
I sure have noticed the way you "can" repeat yourself over and over again...
I have been a vegetarian for 18 years. On the few occasions that I have gotten something cooked with meat (ex. beans cooked with pork lard), I have been extremely ill, nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, sweats etc. Longterm vegetarians may lose the enzymes required to digest meat (just as meat-heavy eaters may require Beano to handle some veg).
Please, everyone- holidays are way too stressful even without diet/lifestyle issues. I have been a very NON-militant, non-grandstanding mainline vegetarian for nearly 30 years. My really conventional family is still puzzled and confused after all of these years, but has finally stopped making a big crisis out of it by welcoming the dishes I bring to accomidate
Ah, very nice. I like civility.
Looks like we have sadly become a country of McPeople with McManners.
To quote Homer Simpson, "Salad isn't food, salad is what food eats!"
In light of the serious obesity epidemic and the spike in Type 2 diabetes and heart disease, having healthier choices are critical for our survival. Yes, we romanticize the traditional meal–but the body doesn't in the long-term. I had serious health problems that I had no choice but to change my entire diet for year-round eating. Also, cooking a huge meal like this is very stressful, lots of work, and should not be like this. I also changed my belief structure that to give thanks does not require the turkey dinner. Instead I am cooking brown rice with lime/cilantro, shrimp/scallops, fresh tossed salad, and perhaps a baked acorn squash. My body cannot handle the big meal anymore. Eating vegetarian is new for me, yes, but I have lost 20 lbs. since July. I have more to lose–I want to celebrate living and giving thanks everyday, not just the 4th Thursday of every November.
(I haven't eaten meat since 1998.) Seriously, with all the food on the table, you can avoid the dishes with meat. Anybody who leaves a Thanksgiving table hungry was not paying attention. if the smell of meat bothers you, bring a sliced lemon to put in your water and on your plate–I have no idea why this works, but it reduces that "fat in the air" smell of a fried turkey.
Happy Holidays!
would not serve a meat eater meat at a thanksgiving meal at my house. "meat eaters" are really omnivores and therefore they can eat and enjoy vegetarian food just fine. for the past five years my family has celebrated a vegan thanksgiving even though they are not vegan and it has been great.
um- you CAN eat meat too...you CHOOSE not to.
Last time I checked Thanksgiving was about sharing harvest and being thankful for what the Earth produces for us. Fresh, organic and locally grown vegetable and fruit dishes on the Thanksgiving table is not only good for vegetarians but for everyone eating. Classic holiday dishes like cranberries, yams, mashed potatoes, rolls, green bean casserole, macaroni and cheese, peas, fruit salad, and macaroni salad are all vegetarian and also easy to make dairy free. My family, friends and their families have always been very accommodating of vegetarians because they are hospitable people and accepting of others' beliefs and dietary needs.
Last time I checked a person would not serve a person with a nut allergy chocolate chip nut cookies and ask them to pick the nuts out. Accordingly, we should be respectful of what people like to eat and not criticize them for it. As Calpurnia put it in To Kill A Mockingbird, "'There's some folks who don't eat like us, but you ain't called on to contradict 'em at the table when they don't. That boy's yo' comp'ny and if he wants to eat up the tablecloth you let him, you hear?"
All the comments TL;DR
First off, I'm an opportunivore.
Secondly I cook, and my repertoire of dishes are appreciated by a wide range of eaters from carnivores to vegans and everyone in between.
I just want to mention a peeve of mine that I know is shared by vegetarians and vegans alike, and that is it should be obvious to anyone that meat releases juices when it is cooked – juices which mingle with whatever the meat is cooked with. Picking the meat out afterward doesn't make something meatless. If you stir the vegetable soup with the same spoon you just stirred the beef stew with, then the soup isn't vegetable anymore.
THIS is why it drives me nuts...yep- that same spoon just ruined your life forever.
You shouldn't criticize the choices of others especially when you so obviously do not understand them. That would be like telling someone with a gluten intolerance to use the spoon from the stuffing to scoop themselves some mashed potatoes...when you do not have animal products for an extended period of time and then have even the slightest bit it causes an allergic reaction similar to a food intolerance...not to mention if someone is vegan for ethical reasons...you can eat all the meat and whatever else you want, no one is going to stop you or is trying to tell you to do something different, so I have to wonder why you are so hellbent on criticizing the choices of others
I'm vegan and usually get stuck making food for everyone–including having to cook all the gross meat, the cranberry sauce that no one eats (and someone inevitably hides in the back of the fridge until it gets fuzzy), all the fixin's, plus a Tofurkey and vegan mashed potatoes for me. Not doing it this year! I'm buying a Tofurkey holiday feast and getting out of town! No muss, no fuss, no everyone complaining how gross my food is while they eat a rotting dead body!
Anne- You have yourself a wonderful thanksgiving lil' buckeroo!
my two vegetarian nieces have ruined hoildays for the rest of the family until we can hardly stand to have a meal together. It is not like there are not non-meat dishes, their mother is an excellent cook and helps prepare enough assorted dishes to satisfy anyone. Their pontification and preaching ruins the day for everyone, they are not happy until the meal is awkward and a trial for all. This year one of them cannot make it home for the holidays. Some are actually relieved.
*sigh* I'm sorry you have to go through that. Unfortunately, their behavior is just as bad as the aunt referenced in the article. Holidays are not the time to soap box about food. Snide comments just create ill will and does absolutely zip in changing anyone's minds. They're ruining moods and being counterproductive to their own cause. Feel free to show them this post, btw. Sadly, I don't think it'll do any good, but you can try. *hugs* Take care.
if they ruin your dinner why invite them? A rude guest is a rude guest, whether they are family or not and whether the discussion is turkey or religion. We've sometimes changed our family plans to have smaller dinners just to avoid the stress of inviting certain relatives. Either that or speak to them in advance and tell them the truth.
i agree that a rude guest is a rude guest.. its unfortunate they make your thanksgiving lackluster... i think the best way to teach people at vegetarianism on thanksgiving is to bring great veg food that everybody can enjoy....and lead by example. ruining people's thanksgiving leaves a bad impression.... but if these girls are teens,then they probably have a lot of passion and energy and just havent quite figured out how to direct it without alienating people.
I used to have a brother in law who was gay and a severe heterophobe, who used to do the same thing. Used every holiday as a soapbox to explain how everyone should be gay and how "Hets" as he called us, are the ones who have it wrong. Nobody really misses him anymore.
That's when I'd put a fist full of turkey in my piehole and mumble... mmmmm mmmmm good!!
I didn't read the comments because honestly, I've heard it all. I am a 95% vegetarian in central Texas. You can imagine I'm sure. I do eat fish regularly and I make exceptions for Turkey from time to time (during Thanksgiving). The majority of my diet is based on healthy choices, organic, hormone free etc. I have come under every attack they come up with. I have decided that people just simply don't like people that are not like them. I have been forced to start my own Thanksgiving tradition outside of my family because they do not care to understand or make exceptions. Truth is, there are delicious vegetarian dishes out there and if people would make healthier choices, this whole conversation might be avoided. Love people, be thankful for people, this is what the holiday is about anyway, right?
Just serve healthy vegetables and fruit. Everyone can eat that and enjoy healthy vegeterian dishes. Maybe the meat-eaters will give up their meat dishes when they taste how yummy vegeterian dishes can be!
I dated a vegetarian for a long time, and I did have a holiday meal with him and his parents, who were also vegetarian. There was of course no meat in their dinner, and while I thought the idea of seitan was a bit weird, it was delicious.
I don't eat beef or pork. I know this is a pain for a lot of people. Eating something with beef or pork causes me to be physically ill, and that doesn't make for a lovely occasion. I don't mind eating only a few things at the table, I just try to make sure the host doesn't take it personally.
Being from the South, I do have to be on my toes with the vegetables. Is it really necessary to put pork in everything? This is why most of us are chubby, y'all.
If a vegetarian or vegan wants to bring something to eat, by all means. If you have a favourite flavour of Tofurkey, or know a cheap place to get it, that makes my life easier. If you'd rather bring seitan, Quorn, or another fake meat, please do! Just please bring enough to share, I'd like to try it as well.
I've never actually thought of Thanksgiving requiring a specific protein dish, though I realize some vegetarians prefer it. Normally, I find I can get more than enough protein for any given single meal from a variety of grains/beans/etc. without requesting there be meat substitutes (not that I'm opposed to them... just that I definitely understand most cooks aren't used to preparing them).
The pork in everything is the one problem I've encountered... which is especially confusing to me when a host does this after being informed of my dietary restrictions since I have a serious allergy to the stuff in addition to my personal choice to be a vegetarian. Not that I would expect them to exclude pork from everything.. but how hard is it to make at least a few dishes without it or at least not scold me for bringing dishes I can eat? I had never really made the connection before to it being a specifically Southern problem but now that people have mentioned it, it is making more sense.
Thank you, by the way, and to all the others that have expressed tolerance and awareness in these threads. It is nice to see so many people who don't consider it a major imposition to make sure there are some things a guest can enjoy when they invite them to dinner.
If anyone is interested, here is some information about where to order an entire vegan feast that can either be picked up locally in Los Angeles or shipped overnight to you- it's from THE most revered vegan restaurant in the US, Madeleine Bistro. This will help you out if you're a vegan/vegetarian planning to go to an omnivorous celebration, or if you're a meat-eating host wanting to accomodate a vegan guest.
http://treekisser.tumblr.com/post/1594303162/your-ultimate-vegan-thanksgiving-solution
If I were to invite a vegetarian to my home for Thanksgiving dinner, I would make an effort to prepare at least a couple of dishes my guest could enjoy and I would encourage my guest to bring along a protein he or she could enjoy to avoid the turkey. Many vegetarians do indulge in milk, butter, eggs etc, so there are a wide variety of dishes that could be made by a host that wouldn't hurt the other guests to try as well. Given that I opted to invite someone who doesn't consume meat, i feel I at least owe it to them to place dishes on the table he or she can enjoy.
Just my opinion.
I have both meat (turkey, ham) and non-meat (corn on the cob, potatoes, yams, green beans) dishes at my table. As a member of P.E.T.A. (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals), I will eat meat whenever I can, but do not expect my friends and guests to do the same. I respect their dietary choices. But if you scoff at my dietary choices, you don't have to come to my home.
well said.
...said the person who has left a dozen comments criticizing the dietary choices of others
How about not going to someone's house who is cooking a turkey? That should solve the problem, that's what I do.
Most of us have non-vegetarian friends and family. I'd rather spend the holiday with people that I care about than limit my choice of companions to eating only with people who share my dietary restrictions.
From the other side of the discussion, I'm a vegetarian – been that my entire life. Not a militant, just prefer to stay that way. When I go to someone's house for Thanksgiving or any other time, I do two things. First as a courtesy, I make sure they know I'm vegetarian so there is not an awkward moment of discovery when I don't eat something they have taken time to prepare. Second, I always offer to bring a vegetarian dish along to the meal. I understand that I am the odd person out and I don't expect a host to prepare things especially for me. There are times when I don't eat as much but that is the price of my decision.
For all those who think vegetarians can just pick the meat out: Can't be done. The flavor and the juices are cooked into the entire dish. To think otherwise is ridiculous. Ordering the vegetarian to do so is not only rude and ridiculous, it's also bullying. Mocking anyone for food choices (from EITHER SIDE) is bullying. Yes, I consider vegetarians who nag at meat eaters to be just as big of bullies as meat eaters who mock vegetarians.
Seriously, it's not hard to cook for vegetarians on Thanksgiving. Replace all chicken and other meat-based stocks with vegetable stock. Not only will the dish be healthier, but it'll also taste lighter and be less calorie and fat riddled. It takes no more effort to buy vegetable stock/broth than it does to buy chicken, beef, or turkey broth. If someone wants to insist on putting bacon in the casseroles that would otherwise be vegetarian, there's a simple solution directly in the bacon bits section: they're called Baco-Bits. Taste virtually the same, much healthier, adds the zing, and pleases vegans, vegetarians, and meat eaters. Read the labels of pre-packaged stuffing/dressing. Pick the one that doesn't have chicken or other things in it, and then make it with the vegetable broth. Add apples and dried cranberries. Delicious and entertaining as well as meat-free.
Those three tips right there will change a meal from being mostly inedible to a vegetarian to giving them a huge range of choices. Trust me, vegetarians go into Thanksgiving knowing that there will be turkey and gravy and ham involved, and that they'll be eating a lot of sides. It's really not that hard to be polite to vegetarians. Honest.
I'm a vegetarian, and I don't get why people (vegetarians or their non-vegetarian hosts) stress about Thanksgiving so much. At a typical Thanksgiving feast, there are SO many options on the table, and meat is only one of them! Other traditional dishes served at Thanksgiving, such as mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, green bean casserole, sweet potatoes/yams, winter squash, salad, cornbread, etc., provide plenty to eat for a full meal. I do enjoy if there are vegetarian stuffing/gravy dishes in addition to the traditional ones, but that's not completely necessary. Compared to a regular dinner (maybe one meat, one vegetable, and one grain), the non-meat options are plentiful! Why so much stress?
You would think it shouldn't be stressful. However, you'd be amazed at the number of people who put meat into everything. Bacon in the mashed potatoes and squash, lard in the biscuits, sausage/oysters in the stuffing, ham in the green beans... etc etc. I've learned to either bring something or eat ahead of time unless I'm going to somebody's home that I know understands/respects my dietary choices/restrictions. In my case it is a bit more complicated (in addition to being vegetarian I have a life-threatening allergy to pork products so I really have to know if such things are in a dish or ruin the dinner by a trip to the hospital) so I might be a bit more hyper aware of the issue than most vegetarians.
I'd really rather not make my dietary restrictions a major issue and it amazes me that it is given that I'm perfectly content with a plate full of side dishes given that something like Thanksgiving should be more about the company than the meal. And I even used to cook turkey when I hosted Thanksgiving for those who considered it essential. Some hosts though seem to consider it a major imposition to leave the bacon out of the beans or whatever.
I'm the vegetarian. When I eat at others' houses, I try to accommodate myself by eating the sides that ARE vegetarian. I expect the hosts to do nothing special for me. Since I'm the veggie and the rest of my family is not, when someone comes to our house it is definitely available. I've discovered that Quorn Turk'y Roast is the best choice at Thanksgiving. I've tried Tofurky and did not care for it. It's been nice for the veggies who do come to my house to know that they have "traditional" choices like everyone else. I am always very grateful to hosts/hostesses who go out of their way for us veggies, but it's never expected!
Don't see what the big deal is. Its not like the only thing served on Thanksgiving is meat. What about the veggies that are also on the table, and a whole host of delicious desserts that are meatless.
Go redracer! But wait, they probably won't believe it! Us vegans are just cult-like and trying to rope those meat eaters into a diet that supports health and long life!
You should really take a step back and read that comment. If that's how you voice your opinion and choices when not hidden by the anonymity of the internet, I’m sure you see a lot of eye-rolling when you walk into family occasions. Tolerance and acceptance should be the thinking. I may not agree with the choice of Vegans, Vegetarians or Pescatarians, but I’m definitely not going to pigeon-hole them all into the same category.
It’s not us and them... we're all "Us" – it's just that our dietary choices are different. If someone cannot accept your choice, then you probably shouldn't waste your time explaining it to them, because they just won't listen. My daughter (she’s 15, made the choice 2 years ago) who has chosen to become a vegetarian has never, EVER had to explain her choice to me, and no friends of mine who are vegetarian have either. And I've never had to explain my choice to eat meat to them. We just coexist. Try it. You might find get-togethers are much more enjoyable
Vegetarians are the devil. Send them home with the Mexicans.
Here's a challenge for all meat-eaters: Read "The China Study" and then get back to me about your new eating habits. If nothing more, it should make you think more carefully about the food you eat.
This about says it all:
It was bad enough having all the VEGANS p.o.'d now you've got the peanut allergy and gluten free people involved.
hehe that vid is so funny.
Dear Vegans,
On Thanksgiving, enjoy the sweet potatoes, corn, 3 bean casserole, cranberry sauce, and mashed potatoes (but no gravy! it's got animal products in it!). Don't bother with the stuffing, as it's been inside the bird.
If you want more than that, I suggest you bring it yourself. Or not. Sorry, but I can't be bothered making something special for someone who can't eat meat.
most of the dishes are meatless. cranberry sauce, pie, green beans, vegetables, bread etc. vegan is a different story. they'd really need to do their own prep if they are that fussy.
There are so many AWESOME vegetarian Thanksgiving dishes, I can't even imagine this being an issue in my house. We always have 2-3 kinds of salads, yams, potatoes, grilled veggies, breads with a bunch of spreads, fruit, the list goes on. Then again, my family likes to cook so we consider Thanksgiving an opportunity to go wild. But even if we didn't, if someone had a dietary restriction so they brought another dish (with enough to share) that they knew they could eat, I'd say the more (food) the merrier! I'd only be offended if someone brought only enough for themselves.
Y'know - everyone is forgetting the reason for Thanksgiving.
It's not about turkey. It's not about forcing people to eat meat or not eat meat (and the Aunt in the original article was unbearably rude to her guest, btw. What if this person had suffered from celiac, instead? Would they have forced that person to eat stuffing & stuff, as well? Or what if that person followed veg for religious reasons?).
The day is about giving thanks for what you have. It's about being grateful to be alive, with all the blessings of your life. THE FOOD DOES NOT MATTER. Folks who invite guests to their homes should be sensitive to those guests needs, if only to allow them to bring dishes that fit their dietary restrictions. Forcing someone to eat what they do not want, or can not eat, no matter what reason - that just bombs the entire reason for the holiday.
The best thanksgiving dinner I ever had was not turkey (I'm not veg, but I don't like turkey) - someone stuffed & baked a whole salmon. NOM
Its all about the side dishes. Thanksgiving is one of the best holidays for vegetarians. Other than the turkey, and the stuffing, most of the rest of the food is vegetarian. My wife loves Thanksgiving because all she needs to do is pass the turkey plate to the next person and stuff herself with all those other wonderful dishes.
and Thanksgiving is my fave holiday for many reasons but one being DRESSING!!! i never cared much for turkey so i don't miss it...
I don't really like turkey, and I'm not vegetarian. for me it is about the pie, ice cream and sides.
i usually bring some/most/all of what i'm eating simply b/c i don't expect or even want anyone to have to go out of their way to prepare anything for me...i prefer it actually because then there's no question about what's in it and i'm not being 'overtly picky', i just 'choose' to be vegan just like everyone else 'chooses' what they want to eat (or not to eat)...31 of my 36 years i was a carnivore btw...
ok...i gotta ask...by a show of 'hands', who's plate looks as bare as the one's in the photo up top on Thanksgiving? lol Thanksgiving is when i consume 6 months worth of calories and i wouldn't be angry if this family invited me to dinner (with a turkey on the table) but i'd b/c ticked if they handed me a plate with 6-7 green beans like the woman sitting!
You can eat at my house. We do cook a turkey, but I love vegan food and cook it much better than I cook meat. And my husband's cornbread dressing is AWESOME. No meat required.
Thanksgiving is about thanks. Lets thank animals by not eating them. They give us milk like cows do and we thank them by eating beef.... HORRIBLE!!! Lets not eat meat, what a good choice to start 2011.NO meat.
I've cooked Thanksgiving dinner with a good friend's wife who is a vegetarian and another guest who says she is but eats fish and turkey/chicken once in a while (I call her our Texas Vegtarian). I tell them to bring a dish or two and let them know what I'm making and what is in each dish so they know exactly what to bring.
I do turkey, stuffing with meat, meat gravy, mashed potatoes (no meat), carrot-parsnips dish (no meat), rolls (no meat), cranberry sauce (no meat), sweet potato dish (no meat) and may be 1 or two dishes that probably do not have meat. Also apps like cheese and fruit/veggie dips, and plents of dips – all with no meat. That is pretty typical food for anyone's Thanksgiving dinner and you are looking at 3 dished with meat. So these people who are pissed about vegetarians ruining a holiday are full of beans. They bring 1 dish each and put that with the rest of your food and you are all done. No muss, no fuss.
I can't stand people who don't respect other folk's choices. You don't want to eat meat, not big deal. They aren't asking you to go Vegan, why are you asking them to eat something that goes against their lifestyle? Truly what someone puts in their mouth is none of your business!
I grew up in beef cattle country. Love a good steak, and bacon is like candy to me... however, my daughter has chosen to be a vegetarian. Being the one in the house that enjoys cooking, i have found it very fun to make the same dinner with a meat free substitute.
I've had grill outs with vegetarian friends that come. What kind of raging jerk would i be if i did not try to accommodate their dietary beliefs and needs?
Now, I may not understand the choice, but I’ll sure as heck support it… besides, that just means more steak for me!
" besides, that just means more steak for me!" That's the kind of logic I can get behind!
Actually the meal itself is the least of any vegan issues in my house. Usually I go hunting in the morning and have a deer hanging out back by evening. Not sure most vegans would be down with that.
And for the record, if you are in my home, I really do not care what you eat, how much you eat, or even if you eat. Just please don't turn it into a lecture on the evils of meat. Used to have a brother who was a heterophobe and used to use holiday as a lecture circuit. It was always uncomfortable.
Actually, I had this very conversation with my brother who was bagging vegetarians. Most vegetarians I know think that if you are going to eat meat, you should kill it yourself. I don't eat factory farmed meat. I eat mostly vegetarian and vegan. But I don't have a problem with my brother and family hunting. That deer lived a nice, free, happy life. With one very bad day, and a quick end.
GO VEG PEOPLE!
Get your sustinance from the Earth, rather than killing animals while they are still alive! Eat grains rather than disease riddled meat!
It's so nice to see so many vegetarians on here, I feel all warm and fuzzy that we outnumber the mean meat eaters who feel the need to trash our diet because we don't want to ingest fear and disease.
YOU GUY ROCKS! GO VEG!
I demand an article on Charbroiled Steak to take back the lead!
To bad all the monocrops are actually destroying the earth. Crops destroy natural habitats of animals, strip the topsoil from the land faster than it can be produced (even with crop rotation and summerfallow), and crop run-off has caused a dead-zone in the Gulf of Mexico the size of New Jersey. A diet containing some some meat is actually more sustainable than a veg*n diet.
I won't even get started on the health problems attributed to grains and the overeating of carbs.
most monocrops go to feed animals, not feed people. The diet that involves factory-farmed meat is in no way sustainable.
Overeating of anything (grains included) is bad for you. Small amounts of humane meat can be part of a healthy diet. I say can be, because some people thrive on a vegan diet and get sick by eating meat, whereas others cannot handle wheat/gluten or various grains.
MM1970, I totally agree that grain-fed animals are not sustainable. And it's a shame that grass-fed meat is so hard to find. I wish all meat in the store were grass-fed; far healthier.
Unfortunately, due to government subsidies, nearly EVERYTHING has corn in it.
Amazing! We are talking about Thanksgiving, about being thankful for what we have. And all we can do is get angry at one another for what we eat or don't eat? Let's try to remember WHY we are getting together for a meal, and maybe, just maybe, meat or no meat, we can find reasons to be thankful for everyone around the table. Just sayin...
Very ironic that the person who accuses of making 'militant' food choices is the one that advocates destroying a life for a meal. I am not completely vegetarian, though I follow a kosher diet, but I find it irritating that some meat eaters choose to paint all vegetarians with a brush of intolerance. Speaking of intolerance...
My family is vegetarian but we typically go to a friends house that eats meat. We just bring vegetarian stuffing and anything else we would like to make meatless. It works well for everyone and our host doesn't have to make two of a certain item to accommodate us.
It is horrible to eat meat. Why kill the poor inocent animal just to fill your stomach. Why dont you fill your stomach with delicious and healty vegetarian choices like pasta with sauce and cheese or mashed potatoes. Meat is wrong, let these inocent animals live, what did these poor animals do to you???Please don't eat incent souls. I will make a difference in you and the world. Please and Thankyou if you do.
Most cheese contains meat. It is listed on the ingredients as rennet, pepsin, or enzymes. Unless it says "non-animal," it is most likely calf or pig stomach.
I was there for that comment! I remember that!
I am a vegan, and for Thanksgiving I am bringing 3 dishes that I can eat AND other people will enjoy. Yam puff casserole with vegan marshmallows (no gelatin in them), a vegan whipped cream "salad" with pineapple and canned cherry pie mix, and a pumpkin cake made with angel food cake and a canned pumpkin mix.
Delicious!
Luckily, I grew up with a vegetarian Thanksgiving and only had anything different when we went to visit non-vegetarian friends or family members. We always had plenty to eat and Thanksgiving was always a great holiday – big meal, time with loved ones, and being THANKFUL, not greedy and mean.
What a lot of people don't know is that today's common American Thanksgiving meal is in no way "traditional." For starters, the turkeys bred today have been so grossy over-bred that they can no longer support their own weight and they cannot reproduce sexually. They must be artificially inseminated. They are often packed tight into factory farms and do not get any natural sunlight or get to peck the natural earth and grass. They live miserable, short lives and then suffer during transport to the slaughterhouse and during slaughter.
Funding that is no way to celebrate gratefulness. Being a part of that cruelty is no way to spend a holiday.
Thanksgiving is a time to be thankful and loving, not mean and greedy. Say no to the torture. Say yes to healthy, compassionate options. Have a vegan Thanksgiving!
How about natural free-range turkey? I agree that "turkey farms" are gross and full of hormones and steroids. Get a nice, free-range, organic, turkey (it will be smaller than you are used to), but you will not only be supporting REAL farmers, but the protein you ingest will be free of chemicals. And it will be DELICIOUS!!!
I enjoy the challenge of finding vegetarian options for Thanksgiving. I don't mind at all and usually I take on the meatless entrees so my sister doesn't have to. I often find wonderful recipes that I normally would not have made. In our family we respect each other and the decisions we make in life. On that note we would miss her if she decided to not come because we served turkey and ham.
Everyone talks about wonderful vegetarian dishes – and I've had many that are really great. Unfortunately, I'm a horrible cook – cannot follow a recipe for the life of me. I'd like to eat more vegetarian, but not being a cook is a real problem. the extent of my cooking is boiling vegetables and throwing something on the grill. Eating only vegetables isn't really healthy – we all need at least a little protein (and I do get tired of peanut butter) - and, from what I've seen, that protein usually comes from a "lovely recipe I whipped up".
veg heads should be ignored like any other cult followers.
They have mental issues that lead them to eating disorders.
Many were young girls that were shown misleading images of Bambi and thumper being mistreated and their little minds are engraved with these images at a early age from there the seed is in place.
It's all about brainwashing in the end. Sad commentary really.
Brainwashing starts with a society teaching something should be the "norm" and any other ideals are weird...which is what modern U.S. society does when it promotes meat as the basis for a "normal" meal. If having "mental issues" means educating yourself (not buying into the normal, everyday societal brainwashing) and making a conscious choice about your food, then sign me up!
***yawn*** .... another drone.
You have to be kidding or one of those lonely souls that make super-ignorant comments just to get a rise out of folks.
I eat meat, I love meat but could care less what other people put into their pie holes. Why would you? Vegetarians never take to the streets in protest of eating meat, sure you might find a preachy one once in a while but for every one of them there are 10 "I hate vegetarians lets shove my ideals down their throuat wrapped in bacon". Not that everything doesn't taste better wrapped in bacon but why would you even care?
Ever been to a meat packing plant? Ever seen the reality of what goes into butchering an animal, I have and books like Fast Food Nation describe it right.
You need to stop getting extra jerk sauce on your jerk chicken, it's rubbing off on you.
Cult?! Vegetarianism an veganism is not a cult- trust me! I have no eating disorder-and I became a vegetarian long before I watched Bambi. Whoa- what a false assumption, lumping people into such a weird category.
i see you are also a misogynist ("young girls ... and their little minds") in addition to being intolerant of other dietary choices. tomorrow i am thankful i do not know you IRL
I am happy to put on a couple of dishes for my veg guest. I only wish that they would be willing to prepare a nice meat dish for me when I go to their place.
Why do I doubt you have any vegitarian friends... If you did you'd find out many would simply meet you out for dinner. Of like my best friends wife who is a vegatarian who cooks a real turkey for Thanksgiving since 12 of 15 guests are meat eaters.
Stop being so ignorant.
I'm not vegan. I'm not vegetarian. My wife is, and I 110% support her choices. For all of the people posting ignorant comments about how important it is to eat meat, or how bad vegan food tastes, or how stupid the concept of not eating meat is, all I'll say is that I've met a lot of people like you at events, parties, and gatherings. Nothing is funnier than seeing you narrow minded dummies eat a dish that my wife or I prepared as vegan, commenting on how much you loved it, and then magically changing your mind that it suddenly sucks when you find out it's vegan. How does that happen? WTF? I also take great pride in preparing something vegan or vegetarian, like buffalo chicken wing dip, and then not ever bothering to tell you idiots that there's fake chicken in your Buffalo chicken wing dip, and just watching you devour it. Keeping it a secret like that is also greatly satisfying. All I'd ask is that you respect people's decisions. It's that kind of narrow-mindedness in people insisting they're way is the only way to do things that creates so many problems in this world. This blog post and the insensitive idiotic comments are nothing more than a metaphor for the stupidity in our society in general. Happy Thanksgiving.
I would be p*ssed if someone lied to me about chicken like that.
Would your wife want to be lied to by someone saying "oh, it's faux meat" and then after she eats it they tell her it was real meat? No.
It's just as disrespectful to go the other way. I personally try to avoid soy, and most of the faux meats are loaded with soy!
I have nothing against veg*n dishes. I eat an omnivorous diet, but I do eat a fair amount of vegetarian meals as well. I just make healthy dishes I like, I don't care if they have meat or not.
An easy way to accommodate the Vegan/Vegetarian in your family/life is to move towards the Asian spectrum of dishes when planning for the Holidays.
They use a lot more vegetables and array of starches than the Western meal which is focused around the Meat as a center piece.
(That's why they call it Turkey Day!)
We go to an Indian restaurant with Thanksgiving guests...they get their turkey (curry) and I get my vegan meal. Second choice is a Chinese restaurant that provides for everyone's needs... You're right that Asian cuisine can focus the best kind of attention on veggies...
This is our first Thanksgiving as vegetarians. We did it for cholesterol and obesity reasons. We have been invited to dinner and we will bring some items for us and anyone else who wants to try. No problem for us or our friends. Ironically, while we are meat free, our three dogs are on a grain free diet because our holistic-minded vet said it was healthier for them.
I am the Vegetarian at the table. I am not rude about it. I have food allergies so things like fish and seafood are an absolute no-no for me. I cannot eat meat, meat broths and can tolerate the rare egg. All of my friends and family know this and will either suggest I bring something that I can share or they will make sure that there are enough things that I can eat. If I am new to your table, please don't ask me to pick out the offending bits. I still won't be able to eat it.
If you are coming to my house on Thanksgiving, you bet there will be a turkey or, like last year, a stuffed pork loin. I can't eat it, but I can cook it! As my guest, I am happy to plan a meal that we can ALL enjoy.
I find it very sad that people fight so much about the food when spending time together is the most important thing.
I can relate. I started cooking and bringing my own delightful, delectable meat-free dish to Thanksgiving a few years ago. I try something new every year. Last year was vegan pumpkin pie. Not sure what I'm going to make this year. Mom has FINALLY (over the course of 10 years) come to the realization that I do not eat meat and has relented to occasionally surprise me with a Tofurky, which she forgets has to roast about as long as a real turkey, therefore, I am left picking at cold turkey-shaped tofu on Christmas and Thanksgiving, hoping for at least a tasty salad and maybe some asparagus to hold me over until dessert. It’s hard for these holiday dinners to be “special” when you must scrounge together an impromptu vegetable collage or be forced to hunt for the Wheaties in the pantry.
I guess first I have to describe myself as someone that does not eat beef very often. This is due to the fact that I don't want Colon issues and it makes me feel very sluggish after eating it.
I was not raised vegan or vegetarian but meat wasn't emphasized because too much of it can be detrimental for your health. A balanced diet of an omnivore species should only about 1/3 meat and 1/2 at the very most to avoid stressing the internal organs too much.
That being said, the Holidays are a great time for the Vegan/Vegetarian to loosen up just for one day and have some meat. Unless you are religiously bound it should not be that big of a deal. Then again I am not into Animal Rights and I reduce the amount of meat in my diet for a reason other than how sad the Pig, Chicken, Cow feels when it is slaughtered...LOL
Really simple: When I host ANY events where I'm serving food, I ask everyone on the guest list if they have special food requirements in advance. If there are vegetarians, I'll make some options. I'm not an "obligate meat eater" myself, and enjoy many vegetarian foods in ADDITION to tasty animal parts. I can cook lots of tasty foods without meat. It's Thanksgiving, so I WILL be roasting a turkey, but I can make some vegetarian gravy with veggie broth in addition to the turkey gravy. I can make a batch of meat-free stuffing. There's NO reason in the world to add meat to the mashed potatoes, the green beans, the sweet potatoes (I believe in baking them plain, not drenching them in goo), the cranberry sauce, the bread, or any of the desserts. Succotash, pilafs, and hearty grain dishes go GREAT with Thanksgiving seasonings – hearty sage and rosemary flavors.
Now, if someone shows up and THEN announces they're vegetarian and why didn't I make them a Tofurkey, I'll be annoyed. However, in all the time I've had GOOD friends who are veggie, they're the most polite and flexible people ever when it comes to rolling with the punches, and people who try to force them to eat meat are obnoxious. Why should we force anyone to eat anything? Is this a dictatorship?
And actually, I went to a friend's house for Thanksgiving last year with a whole bunch of my friends. The vegetarian who came made the most AMAZING glazed ham for everyone else. It was excellent. Yes, a real bone-in, spiral-cut ham. And I made a vegetarian dish to share. Go figure, right?
wow! what is with all the nasty comments about vegans and vegetarians? i'm not a vegetarian but my father and a few other friends are and i have absolutely no problem with nor being able to put together vegetarian friendly meals and most of the meals i've put together have been completely meat-free and so fantastic that i didn't miss the meat at all. finding great tasting meat alternatives isn't always easy but there are some wonderful meat-free products that if served to a group of people without telling them that the items are meat-free (i have done that and nobody was the wiser), taste so good that the people don't even realize it's not meat. sadly, my aunt is someone who goes along the attitude of "i'll make whatever i want to and if someone doesn't eat it, then they can starve". it's unfortunate that some vegetarian family members have had to resort to eating before going to my aunt's home as they know that all they'll likely be able to eat is salad. there are reasons why people go vegetarian. many do it because they don't want to be associated with mistreatment of animals while others do it for health reasons (such as allergies or health problems). so meat eaters, the next time someone tells you that they're vegan/vegetarian, instead of thinking they're crazy and trying to convert them to eating meat, stop and think about how you'd feel if you were in their place.
I am a vegetarian, and when I go to my parent's for Thanksgiving, there's always plenty to eat. My dad nicely puts aside stuffing without meat, and I gobble down that, potatoes, squash, veggies, and plenty of sweets. My husband eats meat, so he's happy someone has cooked a big turkey with lots of gravy. This year we're bringing a veggie potato and leek pie.
I never make a comment about what other choices people make (especially while food is being consumed, that's just gross), and I only get gentle ribbing on what I choose to eat. It bothers me that the comment at the beginning says we should put aside our militant choices. I don't really think of it as that. I feel good about what I eat, and I feel good about the people I'm eating with. Perhaps everyone could just allow each other to make their own choices? My traditional meal is much more about WHO I eat that WHAT I eat.
Thanksgiving is THE best day of the year for vegetarians (I am one) because on no other day are there so many non-meat side dishes!
I always find it funny that the mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, green bean casserole, roles, and my mother's sweet bread stuffing are all vegetarian dishes. No one has a problem if I eat all of these dishes. But the second I refuse a serving of turkey, I have people taking a fit.
I don't preach. I don't care if you eat meat or not. I don't care if your jacket it leather, or if you wear suede, or if your hair products are tested on animals. We all have our issues we fight for, and we can't all take on every single cause or else we'd go nuts from the stress of it all. If someone is eating meat next to me, I don't get up on my "soapbox" and tell them why I choose not to eat meat. If someone asks me why I don't eat meat, I'll give them a few brief reasons why (animal cruelty, environmental factors, and my health are my reasons btw). If someone is interested and truly wants to learn more, I'll tell them more. If they don't, I'll shut up.
I see my doctor regularly, and am in pretty good health. My vitamin, iron, and protein levels are all right where they should be. Yet as soon as I pass up a turkey leg, someone feels the need to tell me that my hair is going to fall out, my skin will dry out, and I'll have no energy ever again because I'm "obviously" low in all my nutrients.
I hope this doesn't sound preachy. I'm just tired of everyone being so divided because of one big meal. Not everyone is going to eat everything being served. People are going to bring side dishes, and some of them may not have meat in them. It's really not a big deal, and definitely not worth arguing over or complaining about.
Apparently you are unfamiliar with the terms "rational" and "rebuke." I believe several people have effectively made alternative points that are valid. Vegetarian vs. omnivore is not a religious argument – it is a lifestyle choice. Neither is right or wrong, and there is plenty of history, research, and facts to support either choice. It is about respecting other peoples' beliefs and choices. So get off your soapbox and put a sock in it (or a tasty drumstick – that would be better).
This really isn't rocket science folks. It's etiquette. If you invite someone whose dietary needs are unknown to you to a meal and they accept, you get to make what you want. If they accept and also inform you that they are meat-averse (gluten-averse, or broccoli-averse, etc.) then it is you responsibility as a host to accommodate them or dis-invite them (which would be super-rude by the way.) If you're the veggie invitee, and there's no reasonable expectation that your host knows you're veggie, and doesn't make a veggie-friendly meal....too bad. Eat what you can and be polite about what you can't. They'll know for next time.
I cringed when I read the comment from deedee about vegetarians and their "militant food choices". I do not eat meat because of a genetic condition which requires me to eat a diet with very low amounts of iron. I am very sensitive about not appearing "militant", and I usually provide meat dishes at my dinner table, especially at Thanksgiving and other holidays. When I eat at other homes, I try not to bring up the subject, and fill myself up with vegetables, always abundant at Thanksgiving. If I know people well, I explain my medical condition and tell them that it is not necessary to make special arrangements, I'm very adaptive. Before you judge a person who is a vegetarian for any reason, medical or ethical, look into your heart and try to make room for people whose diet may be different from yours.
Hemochromatosis huh?
Yes.
I've made meatless dishes for vegetarian guests before–I'll be honest, it flopped badly. I made the newbie error of not doing a trial run a few days before! I'm willing to make the effort, but I'd give the guest in question a heads up that they may want to bring a dish as well. I never cook anything like tofu at home, so I'm not practiced enough to guarantee good eats!
I will have enough food that is vegan Compliant that I will not have to fix something different for them. If they complain that others have meat on their plates they will be asked to leave.
I will accomodate their needs in every dish, except the Turkey and Gravy for the turkey (I do not stuff mine.). It is rude to keep pushing your veggie diet on people who have heard the discussion and decided it was not for them. You want to determine what is on the menu then you need to be the cook and host.
I have no problems with vegetarians, until they start acting like a Baptist at a beer convention. Not all do, granted. But if both sides are willing to have an armistice for the day, everyone eating what they want, they are welcome at my table.
I don't understand this article at all aside from the Turkey almost everything else on the table are vegetables. Mashed potatoes sweet potato broccoli corn. Whats the problem here?
Militant attitudes towards diets (not just your own) are the main problems here.
I never really had a militant attitude towards food but I guess some people do. Plus I didn't even think of butter. But If I had Vegan people over they would most definitely need to give me a recipe cause I wouldn't even know where to begin.
I agree. Most of what we put on the table is vegetables. And I usually use margarine instead of butter. I suppose the milk in the mashed potatoes could prove a difficulty for a vegan. (I've only had vegetarians in attendance.) Oops – and eggs in the corn casserole. The rest are straight veggies.
It isn't an issue if most of what is on the table is vegetables cooked without meat. As I've said above, for most vegetarians the problem is when there is nothing to eat that doesn't contain meat. I've literally been to a meal where the only thing other than the dishes I brought (and the hostess scolded me for bringing) that didn't contain pork of some kind was the cranberry sauce. And... not only am I a vegetarian but I have a medically verified, life-threatening allergy to pork that the hostess knew about (and ironically, none of her other guests ate pork either due to religious restrictions... she had lots of left overs).
Einstein was a vegetarian. JillMarie thinks it's a sad meal and that you should compromise your principles just because she thinks you are not having a great meal. Every Thanksgiving for the last five years I have gone to a vegan Thanksgiving. We have a wonderful meal adn a wonderful time. Meateaters just don't understand that a meal can be great without meat. In colonial times meat was usually part of the meal one or two days a week. No frigs.
Happy Thanksgiving
After I returned from the war in Iraq I was angry. bitter, and hateful; it was not until I learned Buddhist meditation and took the Bodhisatva vows (including no killing and hense no meat) that I found any peace. Many people don't understand that the vows I took are constant reminders to me that I need to be mindful of my emotions and not give into the negative spiral of negative thoughts and emotions which I feel constantly on the edge of my consciousness. My vows keep me sane and I can't let them slide, not for a moment and certainly not for a day even if it is turkey day.
Have a happy and peaceful Thanksgiving Mike.
I, JillMarie, am the vegetarian- not the one who made the comment about a "Sad meal"- that was deedee! Don't confuse the two-PLEASE!!!
Plenty of green beans, stuffing, cranberry sauce and other goodies for the vegans. Come on over. The selection is even wider for the lacto/ovo crowd (pies!).
However, if I get a vegan who looks at me in disgust while I eat my turkey and says something to the effect of "I can't believe you're doing that. It's so gross." (that's actually happened before), said vegan will get kicked out and never invited back.
I have no issue with vegetarians. Heck, I could see myself living comfortably as a vegan. I just have an issue with the "holier than thou" militant vegetarians.
The last time I ate meat, which was somewhere around 20 years ago, was at Thanskgiving, when I ate a tiny piece of turkey to "be polite" after having gone vegan for a year.
I was sick for more than 24 hours, doubled over with stomach cramps. So much for being "polite".
For the past several years, we have traveled to my mother-in-law's home for Thanksgiving. She hates to cook, so we cook up a ton of vegan-friendly dishes (potatoes, sweet potatoes, broccoli, various other veggies, and a fantastic veg-filled stuffing baked in a casserole pan) and she orders out for a small turkey, gravy and meat-based stuffing. Everyone eats well, those who want turkey can have it, and those who don't want it can skip it. Since we're running the kitchen, we can keep meat and veg stuff completely separate. It works out well for all. Helps that we just eat a vegan diet, we don't actually get militant about it.
One word for your sickness and stomach cramps: idiosyncratic. Look it up.
Close-minded moron: look it up.
I have been a vegetarian for 20 years and when I go to my parent's house for holiday they make sure to have non meat items for me. I also tend to bring a veggie over just in case the options there are not enough. However, if I was to host a holiday party at my place which is meat free zone I would kindly ask my friends/family to only bring vegetarian dishes. It's my house and I have the right to make the rule.
Regarding people talking about how high and mighty vegan & vegetarians can be: I try hard not to act liek that or make comments (not even when turkey is placed in front of me at table) but from my experience meat eaters are the ones that act all high and mighty. I always hear meat eaters say things to me like "look at this juicy piece of turkey or cow", "you are really missing out! etc... That is rude.
So, your parents are accommodating to you at their home but it's "It's my house and I have the right to make the rule." at your home. That sounds like a double standard to me. Can you see why some people posting here are having problems understanding? (And, by the way, I always accommodate in my home.)
If it helps, I think the simplest explanation (at least from my perspective) is this: folks who eat meat can also eat vegetables. Folks who do not to eat meat can only eat vegetables. And while I understand the argument that there is a choice involved (incidentally, that choice goes both ways – people choose to eat meat, or not to eat meat, for a variety of reasons), the point is that if you eat meat and I invite you for dinner and don't serve meat, you can still eat well (very well, if I do say so myself). If you invite me to dinner and then serve primarily meat dishes (and/or veggies with meat cooked in, or something containing meat broth, or gelatin, etc., etc.) then I can't eat. That's the difference. It doesn't mean someone can't also serve meat in their own home, obviously, but for individuals who intend to accomodate their guests (like you do), it's nice to serve something the veg guests can eat as well. (Plus, if you're coming to my house for dinner and asking me to serve you meat, you're asking me to contribute money – by buying it – to something I am strongly opposed to, whereas if you serve me vegetables, unless you're a member of the save-the-vegetable alliance, you're not having to compromise any deeply-held principles.) My two cents.
I'm not a vegetarian, but if I have a friend who is vegetarian for moral reasons, why would I expect them to allow something they consider unethical in their homes? I may not agree with them, but I'd respect their wishes. A double standard would be SMA demanding that his/her hosts not serve meat at all in their own homes.
SMA , you are right. I've found that meat-eaters are the rude ones, by always commenting on my food. It can be a veggie sub, which looks the same as a turkey one, yet they have to make a comment about it. I don't make comments about what they're eating. Why do I have to hear "Mmmm, Bacon." I know what bacon tastes like. It is great. I'm just not eating it anymore.
Talk about double standard. You expect others to accommodate you in their homes, but you don't afford that same accommodation to your own guests?
I am happy to eat vegetarian occasionally, and when I have vegetarian guests over, I usually don't even make meat for the meal at all, but I do that because I really care about making them happy, and it's one meal. I show them that consideration in my home. I'd be highly offended if, in turn, they would not even attempt to make something according to my tastes when I'm at their house. Even if they merely offered and I refused, I'd appreciate that they were thinking of me first, just as I thought of them first while they ate with me.
It's pretty sad that it's your way or the highway for you.
I moved in with a vegitarian over a year ago and never ate better. I can't imagine adding meat to our dishes and changing the great flavors we achieve. Our biggest reason for not eating meat is all the hormones, chemicals, and processing that takes place, the stuff is just bad for you. The cruelty to the poor critters helps as well.
PS. I have not been sick one day since giving up meat, and my allergies are much better.
Great flavors can be achieved with meat as well. I eat a variety of dishes and ethnic cuisines. Different meats give different flavors to the dish just like different vegetables and spices do.
You can find meat that doesn't have hormones and antibiotics. Pastured grass-fed livestock or hunted game meat are your best bets; no hormones/antibiotics and the meat is leaner and has significantly more Omega-3s.
you are so full of crap. eom
I've been a vegetarian for 20 years; I've always scratched my head when people ask me what I eat for Thanksgiving–um, everything on the table except for the turkey & the gravy! The remainder of the traditional feast is all very vegetarian-friendly (but, admittedly, soaked in butter and cream, and therefore not vegan-friendly). The only change my mom made was to the stuffing–she switched from chicken stock to veggie stock; I suspect nobody ever noticed the difference. There's so much good food, I really don't miss the turkey & gravy, but I do usually have tofurkey & veggie gravy. In any event, I can't imagine inviting someone over to my home for a meal and then ignoring/refusing to accommodate their dietary needs/preferences; that's just inhospitable.
I have a question for vegans (I guess). I once overheard someone saying they wouldn't wear wool mittens because the sheep were tortured to get the wool. Now, we used to raise sheep and, if we didn't sheer them, they got so uncomfortable and miserable. They would go around rubbing their coats on trees trying to get the wool off. Once shorn, they used to leap around with a "grin" on their faces. You could tell they were delighted to get rid of their coat and be cool in the warm weather. Can someone enlighten me?
likewise, I suspect you'll never get an answer about the sheep and vegans. Just like I never get an answer on how one would feed the world on a vegan or even a vegetarian diet without destroying the entire ecosystem by making fields and greenhouses everywhere, from Antarctic to Arctic.
@vel – you actually think that? Hoo, boy – you are uninformed! Your response actually made me laugh out loud!
there is a HUGE difference between a family who raises a few sheep or small farm that relies on manual methods of sheep-shearing and factory-raised sheep. I'll wager that you and your family took into account whether or not you harmed your sheep (why would you, if you were worried about their comfort level, as you stated), but factory-produced wool makes no such assurances. Those animals are generally treated horribly.
That makes sense. Then why the blanket statement "I won't wear wool." Why not look for locally raised sheep. How is this different from saying all vegetarians are militant?
it can be very difficult for people, from a situational/geographical standpoint. Maybe not everyone has access to locally-produced wool or other products? In any case, as an ethical vegan, I can see why this is a question in some people's minds. I, for example, ride a motorcycle, and purchased second-hand riding leathers for protection. Second-hand means that no animal was harmed by my specific purchase, and I am not contributing to animal cruelty by buying something that's used.
Sorry, I forgot 'freedom of speech' only applies when people agree with you. I've never complained about anyone's banana salad. In fact this is only the 2nd time I've ever commented on a post on CNN.com.
As for kissing my husband – luckily for me he brushes his teeth.
I just don't understand why we can't let people live and let live. I have no problem with people who eat meat. I just want the same respect.
Oh, oh, oh, I can top Banana Salad – Creamed Celery with Walnuts. My parents elderly friend brought that one year and the dog wouldn't even eat it.
Really the only meat items on our Thanksgiving table is the turkey and the stuffing that was inside the turkey. Sometimes we have a ham as well. Other than that each dish is generally already vegetarian friendly – potatoes, squash, green bean cassarole, plain stuffing, etc. My cousin and his wife are vegetarians and usually bring a dish or two as well. Their vegetarian stuffing with cranberries last year was amazing!
Also my family usually does Thanksgiving as more of a potluck – everyone brings one or two dishes so that we have enough food to feed everyone (it's usually around 50 people for dinner). We would never think it's rude to bring a diet friendly dish, it's just more food to go around.
That's how my Thanksgivings are with my family. It's very easy to not eat meat (or anything cooked with meat) and still be very full. There are also some vegans in my family who bring interesting dishes like maccaroni and "cheese." I would venture to say the worst food at our Thanksgiving is the turkey when compared to all the other tastey food. Some of the squash we have is amazing!
I feel that if I invite someone that is either a vegetarian or allergic to whatever, than I do need to accommodate them, yes, it would mean more stress on me, but that is the price of being a good host.
I've only been veggie for the past year. I don't force my views on others and I don't understand the hostility of meat eaters comments and always trying to "change me back." If farming went back to the days of non-GMO feed, free range & grass fed cows, no growth hormones and humane treatment of the amimals, I might consider eating meat again. But it won't, it's all about the money. I just can't eat an animal anymore that was tortured, skinned alive, and abused it's whole life. Yuck!
You are aware that all fruits, vegetables and otherwise that you eat are the product of selective breeding and grafts? You are selecting for characteristics that would not appear if the plants and animals were living wild. Yes...you are eating genetically-modified organisms.
people should just be thankful that they have food to eat. being overtly picky about food just shows a lack of gratitude for the fact that you actually have food to eat.
too many people in the world...let alone, our country...don't even know where there next meal is coming from. oh to have the luxury to be able to pick and choose your food...WAKE UP!
I'm an enthusiastic meat eater, but I also appreciate tasty vegetable dishes. We have a group Thanksgiving with college friends, a couple of whom are vegetarians. The main dish is a traditional turkey. They bring their own pseudo-meat-like patties and gravy, but the rest of us try to make our many vegetarian offerings without meat products, which isn't a big deal. Everyone has a great meal, and nobody ends up feeling superior or inferior, and certainly nobody goes home hungry.
REALLY ARE WE HAVING A DEBATE?! WHO CARES?! IF YOU DONT EAT MEAT WHATEVER!!!! IF YOU DO ENJOY!!!!! I AM MAKING VEGAN & MEAT DISHES...SO EVERYONE SHOULD BE HAPPY DANG I DIDNT KNOW IT WAS THAT SERIOUS!!!!!!
I'm a vegetarian, and I don't expect anything special. Really, though, most side dishes are vegetarian anyway. Mashed potatoes, green bean casserole, sweet potato casserole, rolls, salad. That's a huge meal all by itself. Plus desserts!
I don't eat meat, but my father and girlfriend do, so we have vegetarian, vegan, and meat dishes abound that will keep everyone happy on Thanksgiving. To be honest, I think tofurkey is the best thing since sliced bread. Don't bash it until you try it! When properly prepared they are soooo rich and flavourful, I prefer it to real turkey! I never feel deprived on Thanksgiving as there are so many delcious vegetarian friendly dishes you can make. I wouldn't invite a meat-eater over and expect them to not eat turkey, so I expect the same level of respect. I'll prepare my own tofurkey as they can be almost as labour intensive as a real one, but having a couple sides that aren't basted in chicken broth is easy to do, just as making some pork and beans for the meat eaters at my table is for me. Just try to cater to people's needs, it's Thanksgiving after all, not Shut-Up-And-Eat-What-I-Serve-You Day.
If someone wants to contribute to the meal, what's the big deal? I'm surprised by how many people are saying that the host won't let them bring something. Are they that set in their ways that they can't make room for another dish on the table? Who cares if someone eats meat or doesn't. Tolerance towards all goes a long way. Build your menu carefully. Adjust the recipes as needed so everyone can enjoy them. Be a good host and make sure everyone is comfortable and having a good time. Relax. It's all about spending time together, catching up, laughing and creating memories.
"If I invite them, they're my responsibility and I'll put a lot of effort into their dishes." I am glad to see this got the most votes so far and that the world isn't as devoid of good hosts/hostesses as a lot of comments on this subject would lead me to believe. I may not make a Tofurkey for an herbavore, but i'll keep the meat out of the side dishes at least, and maybe even whip up a few other things with more "depth" than just steamed veggies.
http://www.wthr.com/story/13507312/dumped-in-indiana
(sorry, forgot the link)
Before people comment negatively about vegetarians, they should read what factory farms are doing to states like Indiana. Here's what WTHR news (Indianapolis) recently had to say on this issue... and the dumping from Ohio is the tip of the iceberg. One 8,000-hog CAFO (concentrated animal feeding operation, aka factory farm) means about 3.9 million gallons of waste and water per year. Now multiply by all the hog, chicken, beef, turkey, veal factories in Indiana and what do you have? a cesspool. Then look at Illinois, Missouri, and others. If you can't get on board for the poor little animals, do you at least care about your children's health?
If you don't know already, this is exactly why meat eaters act the way they do around vegetarians. If you would let other people enjoy their food in peace, they may do the same for you.
I've been vegan for over two years now (vegetarian before that for many years) and Thanksgiving is always the hardest holiday to work with visiting family. Two years ago, my mother-in-law was in tears that I wasn't going to provide a turkey for their visit (we'd compromised for them before as vegetarians–something I regretted and didn't want to repeat as a vegan). They were so vocal about not "getting a turkey" that I scrapped my delicious non-meat dinner plans and we went out to a restaurant. They had their turkey and I had my vegan dinner. While both my in-laws and I were content with the food choices, the experience leached all the joy out of sharing this holiday with them. We repeated the same restaurant compromise last year, but this year they've decided to spend the holiday with their other son's family. While we'll miss having family present during this Thanksgiving, I have a simple viewpoint on the issue: pass the celebration roast and chestnut dressing!
If it's important to your family to eat turkey on Thanksgiving and you won't provide it, you shouldn't be surprised that they chose to go elsewhere for the holiday. Just as I would provide vegetarian dishes for a guest who didn't want meat, you should also accommodate your holiday guests. I'm sure your "celebration loaf" is delicious for any other day of the year but on Thanksgiving people want a traditional turkey dinner.
I do provide them the food that they want...at a restaurant. Then, I'm not compromising my ethics/health/the environment and they're not compromising their expectations. Everybody's happy!
Turkey and all the trimmings are traditional at Thanksgiving. That's what most households do. There are always plenty of vegetables at my table. I wish I had the money to serve clams and oysters, too, and a ton of other stuff. The First Thanksgiving was not exactly the same as what we have on our tables today. But we celebrate the day and give thanks with a turkey on the table (and the awful sound of football in the background as I cook it!). ButI can't wait! I am thankful for what I've got and if someone doesn't want the delicious turkey that I prepare, there's nothing I can do about it.
I'm surprised at the difficulty some people have with accepting guests. When we host a meal, especially T Day, it's all about inclusiveness. We have a turkey with all the trimmings, but we also have plenty of vegetarian dishes. If we have vegans in attendance, we do what we can to accommodate them with our meal plan. All guests are friends, and are aware well ahead of time that the only thing we "ban" are faux foods (tofurky made most of us ill the last time it made it's abominable appearance at our table). It's always a relaxed, fun atmosphere with a community feel and plenty to eat for everyone, and we encourage guests to be as involved in preparation as they care to be. We're easy going people in general though, and we don't suck at planning.
I always consider my guest when I am hosting a dinner. A vegetarian would never consider a meat eater when hosting a dinner.
Chip, a lot of vegetarians are so for moral or religious reasons, you think they should toss that aside to make you some meat? If you're allergic to peanuts or are Jewish should I feel that you should accommodate me with a PB sandwich or some pork regardless? I've had meat eaters over for dinner and none have left hungry. I make spaghetti or gnocchi with homemade marinara as a main course and have homemade garlic bread available along with veggies. My enchiladas and lasagna rolls are devoured by everyone regardless of diet choices and I've made some pretty amazing desserts that you would never know are vegan. So really, what's the probably if you walk away stuffed and happy?
My daughter is a vegitarian. What people may not realize is that because she does not eat meat, if she accidently ingests meat, it can actually make her sick. So you shouldn't expect a vegeterian to just "suck it up" or "pick it out." But neither does she require us to make a special meal. There are plenty of sides, salads, and un-burnt breads that she feasts on. It was a little more difficult when she was vegan, we DID bring special dishes to relatives houses during that time period, but everyone was very supportive and it opened up a lot of dialog about healthy eating!
Another poster apparently has my name...interesting.
I cannot imagine a worse Thanksgiving than one without turkey, so I wouldn't invite anyone to my Thanksgiving feast that would berate me for making/eating turkey or expect me to replace it with tofurky for them (ew). However, vegetarians would certainly be welcome if they are ok with enjoying veggie side dishes while the rest of us dig into the bird. I make some awesome mashed potatoes, squash, and desserts that could be enjoyed by non-meat eaters.
If you invite someone to your house to dinner, you are kinda obligated to serve something they will eat. That's not a problem. Just don't sit there giving me crap about being a murderer and ruining my holiday. To each his/her own.
I find it amusing the number of individuals that equate Thanksgiving with eating meat. Since when is stuffing our faces with an animal carcas the primary thing we are thankful for? I am personally thankful for many things. I don't need a turkey for that.
I look forward to thanksgiving so I can "stuff my face". HA!
If they give me a fair warning then of course i will put just as much efford into their meals as i will in the meat dishes. I just need to know that there is a vegetarian.
I had a bbq once at my house and i totally forgot that one of my friends is a vegetarian and i felt really bad!
Though I certainly eat meat – and I did actually work in a somewhat vegetarian restaurant at one time (we did serve chicken and seafood) – I respect their choices. I would accommodate my guests and they would also be welcome to bring anything they wanted. I like the comment on the appetizers. There are a huge variety of appetizers that can be made to be vegetarian or vegan. Now regarding the comments about the sister who insists on preaching about her views – that I do not care for, and it certainly sounds like the family has tried to accommodate her. But likewise I am not going to extol the virtues of eating meat.
It can be so simple. I am a vegetarian. My family is happy to have vegetarian stuffing baked outside the bird, vegetarian mushroom gravy, and of course mashed potatoes are generally vegetarian. I make these dishes for the Thankgiving dinner. There are also rolls,veggies, dessert, etc. There is plenty to eat for vegans and vegetarians on Thanksgiving if both sides simply collaborate and cooperate!
If some of my guests were jewish or muslim I wouldn't try to force them to eat pork just because I might happen to like it. If I am inviting someone over to my house for a meal (special or otherwise) I would make sure that what I served was acceptable for them. Some in my family are diabetic. So we make desserts that aren't laden with sugar out of respect for them. Same would go for people who are lactose intolerant or have any other health needs or lifestyle preferences. Just common decency. You might want to try it for a change.
Ahh, my quote landed here! I too have faced criticism for my veg ways. I'm asked if I'm "still a vegetarian"- I'm 26 and became one at 6 years old- my own choice! No, Aunt This and Cousin That- it really wasn't a "phase". Problem is, I'm not even judgemental on others AT ALL! I work at a weight loss centre where we offer plenty of entrees- many I'd never personally eat- but I still sell them to my clients who'd like them! My hubby is not a veg.
People ask "How can that work?" Well, it works just fine!
BTW, my veggie version of T-day dinner is my own version of a traditional meal, and that nasty post that followed was a sad comment, not the meal I'll be enjoying.
Thanksgiving is a time to share with friend’s family and guest you invite. The meal is part of the time and should be catered to the people you invite. If you are not sure what to make asks the guests who are vegetarian to bring a dish or suggest something you can make. The meal is only a meal the time you share is what’s important.
Militant is a funny word to use towards someone who eats plants. Funny how being the only vegetarian at work, all my coworkers feel the need to let me know when they ate something vegetarian. I don't ask them about their meat dishes, or what they eat. I would like to eat in peace, just as I let them eat what they choose without comment. Even when the smells of meat bother me, I keep it to myself. But when I'm heating something up in the mircowave, they are so interested in what I'm eating. Did they think the vegetarian suddenly became a meat eater? or do they ask, so they can tell me that same thing each time "Oh, i could never go without meat, I don't know how you do it." I feel the same way, but I don't feel it's necessary to carry that conversation with someone who eats meat. Why be so concerned about knowing what I'm going to eat? What you consider to be a burden to yourself, is not to me. Talk about it with people who you know you share this in common with. Why are they telling me when they ate tofu or beans or a veggie sandwich? I don't care. Those are things I eat daily. Some may feel attacked because I mention these things, or feel that I'm being "preachy", but really, I feel that it comes from a form of guilt. If I have fruit or nuts on my desk. I'm asked things like "are you on a diet?" This is my diet! They ask for tips on why I look healthy, but are quick to critisize when I tell them what I'm eating for lunch. As far as thanksgiving... i don't expect someone to cater to my vegetarianism- but I always seem to be the center topic at the table. Same goes for holiday office dinners....
I hear ya, veggie1. Have you ever noticed how peolpe will also try to say they are a vegetarian when all they've done is cut back on red meat? It's funny how people misconstrue things! I don't like my vegetarianism to become a topic in every interaction either- honestly, especially during a meal! The worst is having dinner with new friends, aquantances, and double dates. I hate being asked "so, what do you eat?" The answer I give sometimes is..."Food." :)
I don't mind being asked what I eat. I think it enlightens people to know that there is so much to eat without relying on meat. Since becoming a vegetarian I've tried a lot of new things that I never would have thought of eating before and a lot of it has become part of my every day diet.
I hear ya. The wife of my boyfriend's coworker insisted on telling me about her week as a vegan at a social event. Of course during her week of being vegan she admitted to cheating and eating meat a few times (???) I just nodded and smiled partly out of disbelief and partly because I was gritting my teeth to keep from telling her she's an idiot.
Karen, you are right about enlightening people and introducing them to some new ideas about veggie food. I have intelligent conversations with those who are respectful and who will get something out of it. It's those that judge or aren't fun to be around that I don't waste energy on explaining.
My sister is vegan. (I also have a food allergy so I am sympathetic to special diets). I have been able to adjust every item I'm serving, with the exception of the turkey, to be vegan. Sourdough bread, veggie broth, etc. It was very easy. She will bring her own tofurkey.
My father in law (although not coming to my house this year) is allergic to cinnamon, and I have accommodated him in the past as well.
I don't understand, I always felt like Thanksgiving was a fairly vegetarian friendly holiday. Yes the main dish is meat, but at least is my family everything else we cook up (rolls, mash, sweet potatoes, veggies, cranberry sauce, jello salad, pumpkin pie) it's all meatless, and the only thing that even uses meat broth is stuffing! Maybe my family is rare, who knows, but I feel like there are already plenty of vegetarian options at out table. That being said, if they still felt like there wasn't enough of a meal between all that I would be happy to work out to have something else for them!
Now vegans on the other hand...well we put butter in everything so they'd be in trouble! (but we'd accomidate them too of course :) ).
Jello Salad contains gelatin, which I as a vegetarian do not eat. Same with marshmallows on the sweet potatoes. I still agree with you on lots of vegetarian friendly sides! I hate meat, but I love food and I love Thanksgiving!
I'm finding some of the responses here horrifying, but I'm very happy to see by the poll results that kindness and civility are winning.
The Roman army was vegetarian.
For the last few years, my nephew has been vegetarian and I've always looked at it as an opportunity to serve a few new meatless dishes. This Christmas we've invited my daughter's friend's vegetarian family for dinner. My daughter told them that I'd be thrilled to have an excuse to find new meatless recipes to prepare!
I used to eat meat like chicken, eggs or fish but more I found how and where they come from, yikes now I cant eat meat, meat is like eating a dead body to me now not that I would eat a live one like in many cultures... I am repulsed to meat. Yes it is nice looking and tasty when offered to you but just take a step back and see how it comes to your table you will know how I feel. Try Youtube, many videos on how you get your eggs, beef and chicken all from hidden cameras. Once mass production and greed comes in no one is treated nice neither animal, humans nor nature.....
I have been a vegetarian since I was 14 (that's 22 years now...), and my husband became a vegetarian 9 years ago after figuring out through observation that he could make the change and not have to subsist entirely on salad... One thing that never fails to take me aback is the overt hostility expressed by some people when they learn that we are vegetarian. We don't make a big deal of it (in fact, we never raise the issue unless we're, say, ordering pizza with meat-eating friends or have been invited over by some folks who may not be familiar with our eating habits – and then we just say, "Hey, so you know, we don't eat meat, but we eat everything else... and is there anything you'd like us to bring?"). Yet fairly frequently, and apropos of nothing, should we, say, decline a burger or select a meatless menu choice, we are grilled about our choices and even accused of thinking we're "better" than everyone else (you said it, buddy, not me) or that we're (eye-roll) "un-American." I know that there are some vegetarians/vegans out there who like to lecture every meat eater within earshot, but truthfully, I've never met one. And, while some of my "accusers" may have, I know for a fact that a number of them (I'm looking at you, in-laws and my maternal uncles) have never met any veggies other than the husband and I. Do I harbor a secret wish that everyone would turn vegetarian? Sure, I do – I hold the convictions I hold because I believe they're right, just like everyone else in this world. But I understand the society we live in, and I understand that perfectly nice human beings can make choices that I happen not to agree with (for my own reasons) and still be perfectly nice. So I do my darndest not to judge, and I certainly don't spout off (even if I were out there to try and "convert" the meat-eating public, I'm smart enough to know that criticizing people tends not to persuade them, and ruining cherished family holidays definitely doesn't). And, by the by, while I definitely don't expect anyone to jettison the turkey just because I'm showing up, I'd love it if you'd let me contribute something to the festivities that we can all eat and enjoy: cornbread dressing made with "no chicken" broth tastes just like the "real" thing, and dishes like wild-rice-and-cranberry-stuffed acorn squash, kale and cauliflower gratin, chipotle cranberry sauce, roasted butternut squash with granny smith apples, sherried shallots, and roasted brussels sprouts with maple-crusted pecans never killed anyone (though I suppose too much bourbon pumpkin pie or apple pie with vegan shortbread crust might). Just ask my meat-eating family, who have asked me to prepare that entire spread for Thanksgiving again this year...
At a meal recently I learned that the person sitting next to me was vegetarian for similar health reasons I was dealing with. Another person, in response, launched a 15 minute debate about why vegetarianism was wrong even though the only words at that point had been "I needed to change my diet to vegetarian because of my health problems" and "oh, you're vegetarian too??". I guess that is why I don't mention that I am a vegetarian unless asked. I don't like the impromptu debates and tirades, especially when I do it because I have to for health reasons.
One of the arguments that I always hear from my vegetarian/vegan friends and relatives is the evil of factory farms and the lack of compassionate treatment of animals used for food. This belief also extends to vegetable and fruit farming – watch the movie "Food Inc." and you'll know what I mean. I don't disagree – I abhor factory farms and usually purchase meat from local ranches that raise the animals in free pasture and don't use antibiotics and hormones, and utilize humane slaughter practices. I also purchase most produce from local farmers at farmer's markets and stores that buy from local farms. The cost is considerably higher in sourcing food this way, but I have enough disposable income that I can choose to do it. Many people do not have this choice – they purchase food that is available at the lowest cost for economic reasons, food that was grown or raised on large, commercial farms, which results in a much lower price to produce the food and bring it to market. Factory farms address the need to feed large populations economically. It simply is not possible to use small, organic farming and ranching techniques to feed a growing global population with limited economic resources. Perhaps those of you who are critical of factory farms could focus some of your energy on population control, which is the root of the problem, rather than condemning factory farms as inherently evil.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with 'population control' because in factory farms, cows are artificially inseminated to produce dairy!! The baby males go to the slaughterhouse for veal and the females will have a life of artificial insemination, thus multiplying the species! Factory farms in no way help with 'population control'
I think he meant human population control. He cites factory farming as a necessity to feed the growing population, so one solution would be to reduce the population. One thing he fails to realize is that vegetarian food takes for fewer resources (land, energy, water) to produce than meat, so if everyone ate vegetarian we could feed a lot more people with the same amount of resources.
"It simply is not possible to use small, organic farming and ranching techniques to feed a growing global population with limited economic resources."
It IS possible if the growing population collectively chooses to eat less meat, and to demand that it is organic and/or free range.
the "humane" slaughter of animals is a myth. there is no humane way to slaughter animals and the terms free-range, humane, cage-free are not regulated by the USDA. for example, most free-range hens live in dark warehouses of 100,000 birds and only have "access" to the outdoors - this means a teeny tiny door most cant get through because the hens trample each other trying to get out. free-range animals also are killed at the same slaughterhouses are factory farmed animals, the chickens still have their beaks sawed off with a hot blade without anesthesia, etc.. i very much appreciate the fact that you care about where the animals you eat come from, but unfortunately you are not being told the truth by the producers... :(
If you don't eat meat, let me know and I won't invite you over for dinner. I don't care that don't eat meat, even though I do think it's silly. I just don't want to deal with the hassle.
Just proves that meat eaters are very angry, intolerant people.
And by making this comment you have proved that you are simply a bigot who has labeled all meat eaters as being exactly alike.
Nope – not true.
Aggressive vegetarians are painting us as close minded killers – we object.
We live normal lives, like meat and respect vegetarians.
And people, no matter what they eat, who make rash and emotional generalizations should be flogged until they understand that everyone is entitled to make their own life-style choices. ;) Your opinion about what I eat matters not. Nor does it matter what my opinion is about what you eat. This is a blog. This is not the planet. All meat-eaters aren't "x" and all vegans/vegetarians aren't "y." ALL Y'ALL GET OVER YOURSELVES!
My brother's a vegetarian, and when we get together for family dinner at my parents' house, my dad makes some simple alterations on the sides like margarine instead of butter and brown sugar on the yams instead of marshmallows (geletin). He also finds one new, and hearty, main course recipe to try each year. While no particular entree has becomme family tradition, I look forward to trying something new over the holidays that my brother and I can both enjoy. He may not eat meat, but nothing's stopping me from eating veggies!!
vegetarians piss me off
LOL!
My sister is Vegan. And she's the type of Vegan that insists on lecturing you on how terrible it is that you eat meat. It’s highly annoying and pretentious.
She isn't coming home for Thanksgiving this year b/c she says the smell of meat makes her physically ill. Also, no one but her “thinks about what that turkey had to give up in order for us to eat it”. My parents are very upset she isn't coming home. We offered to cook the turkey at a friend’s house so there wouldn't be an overwhelming smell of meat. But that didn't fly. She claims she's incapable of putting on a happy face for ONE day in order to make my parents happy. They’ve even offered to cook her a Tofurkey of her own so she’ll have something to eat but she still said no.
I have no problem what-so-ever w/ her being Vegan. I find Vegan food actually pretty good. But do not preach to me about how wrong eating meat is when it is something I enjoy consuming.
I am a meat eater, and was also a Biology major which meant lots of dissections, but I take offense when people say I don't think about what the animal has had to give up. I encourage people to look up the work of Temple Grandin, she revolutionized cattle slaughter to be much more humane. Animals have lived and died soley for my benefit (both sustanative and educational) and I value them greatly for this. I don't take it lightly, nor am I racked with guilt.
one thing i would point out is that you can have an amazing, wonderuful vegan meal without having any fake, 'weird', or tofu-like products in it. the faux meats were created to help people transition to a vegetarian diet and still feel like they could eat things somewhat similar to meat. however, unti maybe 20 years ago, there werent a lot of faux meat choices and people relied on fruits, veggies, grains, legumes, nuts, seeds, etc. you can even make almond milk from scratch and cupcakes without using any fake products... : )
Kat– don't know if you will see this post, but how old is your sister? I was militantly vegan once. I grew out of it. She probably will too. I still hold the same core beliefs, I just don't preach them anymore. Once you "discover" these things, you want to change the world. She will realize this isn't the way. I still feel that animal abuse is wrong, but I also know that you can't change anyone that way.
Linda – My sister is 26. I really hope she does grow out of it. I honestly have no problems w/ the vegan lifestyle. Personally I couldn't do it but the food is actually really good. She's cooked meals for us before when she's come home and it was very tasty. I agree that animal abuse is very wrong and really I don't eat much meat as it is. However, I really don't want her telling me what's wrong w/ me when I'd rather be spending time enjoying her company. Thank you for your post :) Enjoy your Thanksgiving!
If your family honestly made all those concessions and your sister still refused to share the holiday with them, I say count yourselves lucky she's not coming. She seems to be missing the whole point of Thanksgiving, like many have said previously, it's not about the food.
You're right. I called her the other night to try and convince her to come home. Really we just want to see her and spend time w/ her since she lives 3 hours away and rarely comes home. My parents in particular miss her very much. My parents make every effort to have things she can eat whenever she comes home. There is a Vegan bakery near my house that I buy desserts she can eat. But she still refuses. At this point, I think it'll be a better holiday w/o her. It's just unfortunate that she can't be with us.
Have you ever thought that people are vegetarian just because they don't like meat? It's not always a "militant" choice, but it's still a CHOICE! Why do meat eaters care so much what vegetarians will or will not eat? If I am invited to someone's home for a meal, I always warn them that I am vegetarian and offer to bring something meatless along - courtesy cuts both ways, whether you're a meat eater, a vegan, or a vegetarian. And an ass is an ass no matter what you choose to eat - as evidenced by some of the rude people on this board.
There are so many meatless side dishes that one can serve that would share the bounty among those indulging in meat and poultry. We have been hosting a harvest dinner for many years. We invite a bunch of friends–many vegans and carnivores–and we sit togther and have a wonderful meal.
What about the booze?
My best friend is a vegetarian, and I always go out of my way to make things he can eat. He never wants to feel like a burden, and hes not. I think what that lady responded to that person's comment in the article was incredibly rude, insensitive and close-minded. "Militant" choices? Not everyone is a vegetarian because of some high-minded ethical reason.. many are vegetarian for simple health concerns. One of the effective ways to reduce cholesterol and fat in the diet, and thus reduce heart disease, is to not eat meat and dairy. Its not easy but sometimes it is necessary to be healthy. That needs to be respected, any day and thanksgiving. What kind of host are you that you force someone to eat something that can make them sick?
Hooorrraayyyyy, I like this response. Someone who understands that some of us just can't eat it!
Hey everyone with the rude opinions and comments regarding vegans and vegetarians. All bark and no bite. Let's see you go out, shoot the turkey, cut it up and cook it. Then you can blow your hot air!
Please read Jonathan Safran Foer's book, Eating Animals. Or at least Matthew Sculley's book, Dominion.
PETA – People Eating Tasty Animals!
hee hee hee
Unoriginal
I wouldn't call myself a vegetarian. But whatever it is they started putting in the meat a couple of years ago has not agreed with me. Most meat, except for a handful of certain brands makes me quite ill, ranging in symptoms. I have never been 'forced' to eat anything I didn't want to eat at certain gatherings. But I have struggled with explaining to my hosts that its probably better if I don't eat their meat dish.
So I don't see it being totally unreasonable, given notice, that a host cannot make a couple other dishes that are enticing to other individuals. I mean, most hosts cater to the children too anyways (children are picky eaters too!). So I don't see it being a huge deal. And if it is, I'm sure that person would be willing to bring dishes along that they enjoy and think would be enjoyed. I know I would.
I have heard a number of people say exactly that about the type of reaction that you are having. You're not alone on that one.
My oldest son is not just a vegetarian but also a vegan. I go to great length on all holidays to have food for him to eat, i.e., tofurkey feast, (really delicious I might add) tofutti substitute for sour cream for the veggies and dip, butter substitute, rice milk, you name it. Before I add butter to any of the vegetables, I take out plain helpings for him. He has just as much of a feast as we do and I'm happy to do it! It's takes very little effort and makes him feel so welcome. Before he comes, I get a list of things he likes and I make a trip to health food market. I would never want him or any vegetarian guest to feel unwelcome at a holiday dinner.
Yummm! Can I come to your house for dinner this year, Barbara? You sound like a lovely hostess and a great cook!
ooh, ooh – me, too! :)
if I know someone has a health issue with digesting meat then of course I'd accomodate. Otherwise eat the "other stuff" provided: mashed taters, veggies, salads, etc. I know the argument of not wanting to hurt animals but we're on top of the food chain, they are not. The human animal is a predator. Remember this – if the food chain were rearranged don't you think they'd be eating us? Trying to have tolerance for vegans but not finding much....
I always wonder why people think this is a valid argument. Just because we eat it today does not mean we evolved to eat it. If you followed a diet based on that of our evolutionary ancestors, you would eat meat maybe once or twice a month. If you consider factory farms a part of the food chain, you have a very impoverished view of ecology.
That is a valid argument. Regardless what you think about it. Homo Sapience is an omnivore.
And most of people on balanced diet, like me – do not eat meat everyday. 2-3 times a week maybe.
Golly,I thought today was National Fast Food Day-Not get Everyone P.O.'d Day. Free Tacos after 2:00p.m today at Jack in the Box!
Yeah, a lot of pissy people today on all threads. Apparently, no one is entitled to an opinion.
I noticed that too
usually if you are having people over for thanksgiving, you likely know if they are vegetarian, but if someone is one and the host does not yet know, they should give the host fair warning; it would be rude for them to just show up at the table and say "oh we are vegetarian" and expect a menu change at the last minute, but if they give the host a few days notice, they could plan and create options for them.
Thanksgiving should be about more than food. This is a day that we should pig out on the love shared between family and friends, gorge on the blessings received over the past year, and indulge in a few football games. A roasted turkey or roasted polenta shouldn't be an issue to disrupt the day!
She don't eat meat, but she sure like to bone.
Vegetarians have a choice so I have no sympathy. Try serving a gluten-free dinner.
Same reason I don't feel sorry for meat eaters when they have heart attacks or get cancer.
Wow...you sound like a terrible person. I'm talking about a dinner and you're talking about people dying. You honestly don't care if people die if they don't live like you? Does your car have a lot of Bush stickers?
Alicabeds is proof positive that eating meat is good for the brain. He/she is a vegetarian and posts diatribes that have no place in logic.
I have yet to hear a logical argument for eating meat, which is why I abstain. I would be more than happy to hear you out if you have one. I might point out that my posts are supported by research, whereas your posts (and those of most meat-eaters in these comments) are either one-liners or ad hominems.
Eat meat because it is good for America's economy. You won't live forever just because you are a vegetarian.
Studies have shown that when you factor in the cost of health care that can be directly attributed to diets high in meat, the beef industry is actually a net drain on the economy. Which is really saying something, since raising animals in conditions that barely keep them alive (and that would get someone arrested were they raising cats or dogs) is extremely lucrative, it turns out. So it's not really very good for the economy after all. I wonder where you got that information... Have you been subscribing to the Cattlemen's Association newsletter?
So if your "points" are supported by research (and not by perverted ethics, where domestication of animals is evil), than why didn't you comment on the 6 points, fully supported by science that I provided to you.
Oh, I know! Because I said that you are an a-hole for purely and illogically hating people based on their eating habits.
So, that's not about meat – it's just about you.
Good trolling my friend.
To be a vegetarian doesn't mean eating gluten free food. How old are you? 5?
Ok let me rephrase that.
If you thinks it's inconvenient to serve a vegetarian dish for someone who CHOOSES not to eat meat, try altering the ENTIRE DINNER because you CANNOT eat gluten no matter what. I don't expect anyone to alter their entire dinner for me so I bring my own wherever I go.
I'm a vegetarian, I don't think it's inconvienent to serve meat at my Thanksgiving dinner. I don't expect them to show up with a turkey if I'm hosting it. I would serve it, but again, I wouldn't eat it. Why host a dinner if you can't be a good host. Having a friend that is allergic to gluten wouldn't put a damper on my Thanksgiving dinner either, I would find recipes to accomodate them. So freaking what. It's not like I'm cooking for these people everyday, it's ONE day out of the year.
Being allergic to gluten is a condition. They don't choose to be allergic dude, it actually sucks for those people that have an allergy.
You are saying that you are offended when you have to make some gluten free food for your guest that is allergic? Man I wouldn't want you as my friend.
I got ya Matt, you are allergic to gluten you are saying. Right?
I'm just making fun of your "they have a choice" argument. Meat-eaters make the choice to have a diet that contributes to heart disease and cancer, but of course I still feel sorry for them when their diet takes its toll! Honestly, I shouldn't though. When I try to inform my friends about the health benefits of vegetarianism (endorsed by the AMA, not just my opinion) they tell me I'm being preachy and forcing my beliefs on them.
Everyone has cancer cells in there body MORAN, whether they eat meat or not!
*moron
If you're going to insult me, at least spell it correctly. And it is fact that a diet heavy in meat (especially red meat) is correlated with instances of heart disease and cancer... So, I'm not really sure why you're calling me a moron. It seems like someone who eats meat would be the moronic one.
Better to burn out then fade away.
Yeah, because something we've evolved to eat over millions of years is cancerous to us...
Meat isn't bad. It's what is done to some meat (hormones, antibiotics, improper diet, etc.) that is bad. Organic pastured livestock meat and hunted game meat are good for you.
Soy, on the other hand, is not healthy, yet most veg*ns base their entire diet around soy products (tofu, soy burgers, etc.). I eat an omnivorous diet and I avoid soy just like I avoid hydrogenated oils and HFCS.
@Meat-eaters make the choice to have a diet that contributes to heart disease and cancer@
That, sir, is a lie. Pure and simple.
You are referring to McDonalds burgers as meat. Again. Oh, wait – people get cancer from stuff that they put IN THE MEAT. Or feed to the cows. Not from the meat itself...
Please, go ahead and try to eat veggies with TONS of oil every day and you will get same heart problems as people who eat too much fat meat, like cheap pork.
Respect vegeterians and meat consumers alike. Or don't pretend to be anything but a moron.
Really?! REALLY???? Its come down to "if you don't do EXACTLY what I do, you are horrible and you need to go away. Wow. When did children start running everything? This is pathetic! GROW UP Everyone. We don't have to all like the same things. We are all allowed to like different things, eat different things. Wow....just wow.
Oh and yes I am a vegetarian, my husband is not. We make it work because we respect each other. That is something some of you need to look up – RESPECT. Maybe then you wouldn't be so miserable and feel the need to spread your misery.
How can you kiss him? That would be repuslive to me, and many of my vegetarian and vegan friends. You may think it's mature to compromise on issues that are important to you, but maybe it would show a little more respect for yourself if you would take a stand for your beliefs.
Again, it is attitudes like this which are the reason why many non-vegetarians don't respect many vegetarians. You don't have to say a word to find ways of letting others know you feel superior to them.... Of course, you do say the words as well. I don't have a problem with vegetarians or vegans, I do have a problem with bigots. I don't believe there are many vegan's who are like you, but all it takes is running into one and many of the rest of us have to wonder if others feel the same way.
Um, it's not a question of superiority. I just don't want to kiss someone who has bits of carcass in their mouth. That is not sexy in my book, and many vegetarians and vegans feel likewise. It's hard to share your life with someone when their every meal is a reminder of the cruelty to which they turn a blind eye in order to indulge their sense of taste.
You may have a problem with it.. and if it repulses you personally so much then don't date meat eaters. However, many vegetarians don't. Many of us... even ethical vegans who haven't knowingly ingested or purchased animal products for decades... understand that our dietary choice isn't shared by everyone and don't judge other people solely on what they eat.
You may believe that your judgmental and intolerant attitude make you morally superior to those of us who don't share it; however, I happen to believe that ahimsa applies to humans as well as other creatures. All I ask is that meat eaters have similar respect for my choice.
Dude, I almost believed in your "I am just provocative, I respect reason" comment in the discussion with Rex...
But now I take it all back. What had meat eating do with kissing or anything like that? You simply discriminate people, based on their eating habits and have a nerve to call for respect to your eating choice.
You think people who eat meat are less people than you? I hunt animals, but never for fun and I have dogs and cats in my house which I love and care about. I love meat, but I have no problem eating vegetarian food (if it well made). I and my wife hate tofu, but we have vegan friends, we respect them and on our Thanksgiving we are looking for good new recipes for them. And none in my family EVER was a vegetarian, but none in my family EVEN question a right of person to become one.
Now a bit of education in human evolution, history and physiology. You think that been vegetarian is advantageous? Here is some news. Double check that if you wish.
1. Homo Sapience are omnivore species. Our digestive tract is designed to process meat. Not like cows for example.
2. Meat was a major source of food during all human history. Most of the time at the dawn of civilization the temperature was either too hot or too cold to fully rely on plants.
3. Humans start to domesticate animals either to eat them or to hunt other animals (dogs, cats and birds alike). Partial exception for horses.
4. Meat diet is not a bit less healthy that a vegetarian – and DON'T call Big Mac crap a MEAT.
5. At young age to generate sufficient muscle and bone structure children have to consume products derived from meat or milk. When you were a kid – you were NOT a vegetarian and your mother still kissed you.
6. On the USA territory, due to the terrain and climate the absence of meat in diet would mean no civilization. Nor for Native Americans, nor for the colonists.
You can agree or disagree with hunting. You can agree or disagree with farming. You can agree or disagree with meat-eating. That’s your choice and your right. Nobody is taking it from you – but you are harshly trying to take it away from others. That puts you in the shoes of close minded, rude a-hole whose only point on forum is to attract attention to himself and not to the issue.
I was just conveying my personal preference in the above post. I don't think I stated that no vegetarian should or would ever kiss a meat-eater. It would be like an atheist living with a Christian. The only way it's going to work is if they just never talk about it (and it's hard not to notices someone eating meat at every meal).
I'll address some of your points, since you seemed offended that I didn't. It's difficult to even know where to start. If there was much truth to your post, it was mixed in with a lot of misconception.
First, vegetarians and vegans object to factory farming much more than hunting. If everyone only ate food that they hunted and killed themselves (or even raised and killed), we wouldn't even be having this discussion. My father is a hunter, and I actually killed a deer with a bow and arrow once when I was in my teens, before I stopped eating meat. I was raised on a tobacco and cattle farm, and am no stranger to seeing animals die. Now that I am older and have had the opportunity to educate myself, I personally don't see the point of taking life if you can live without it, especially if you love animals as much as you claim.
1) Just because we can digest meat doesn't mean we should eat it. I will also point out that in factory farms it is common to find ground up bits of animal flesh and feces in the animals' feed. So using cows was probably a bad example, since we have very little regard for their digestive tracts in the first place (also, their not meant to eat corn and grain, which is pretty much all they are fed). Our bodies could potentially process a pound of pure sugar every day, but it doesn't mean that it won't kill us after a while.
2) Our ancestors did not eat nearly as much meat as Americans do. That is fact. In many parts of the world meat has never been a primary food source, and it still is not. These parts of the world have citizens who live longer healthier lives. Also fact. Civilization began when people started raising crops, even though they had been hunting for a long time before that.
3) Children do not need animal protein, from milk or meat, for healthy growth and development. I have several friends who are raising children as vegetarians and their children are happy, healthy and two of them are above average height for their grade. I have another friend whose child is phenylketyluric (sp?), which means he has to follow a strict vegan diet. He is also happy and healthy. The meat and dairy industry want you to believe that their products are healthy, when in fact they are the biggest contributors to obesity, heart disease and cancer in this country. That's right, worse than cigarrettes, according to mortality rates.
4) I don't think I'm better than you or any meat eater in this thread. I do think that I am more informed than most of them, however, and I'm not afraid to share that information with you. I encourage you to read more on the topic and decrease your meat intake. Your body will feel better, you will statistically live longer, and your life will be more in accord with your love of animals.
Alcibiades, so lets see, not only do you not want to associate with meat eaters, but you essentially have judged another vegetarian for choosing to do so. If that is not the definition of feeling superior, I don't know what is. Further, more by running down a vegetarian for associating with a meat eater, you have demonstrated more real cruelty, I think, than many who work in the meat industry. There is no point in showing compassion to animals if we are not first compassionate to other people.
Look everybody! Crabby Vic is poppin' off again. Go now, lay by your dish.
Those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones Victoria. You made a negative comment about my banana salad posting. Thanks for the "respect". By the way... Sounds like you could use a stiff one, and I don't mean a drink! ;)
Hit her with a left hook and an immediate right cross.Will knock her right on her ass!
We have to go through the same story every Thanksgiving. I eat meat – and vegetables and fruit and grain – it's what human beings were evolved to eat. If you are vegan and insist on constantly lecturing everyone around you on the evils of eating meat, or how it isn't fair to the animals, then you can't come to my house at Thanksgiving. If you are respectful and realize that it is your choice to unnaturally exclude animal protein from your diet then I will make some dishes vegan to make sure you have food to eat and I will not harass you for not eating meat. As for me – I believe in the right to eat anything that's lower on the food chain than me and will try to minimize the lower life form's suffering in doing so.
Do you kick the arrogant, jerk meat-eaters out too or just those that don't eat meat?
I love the way you think.... thank you for putting it so eloquently! ;-) Gonna go grill me out a steak tonight....
See, now, I DON'T try to change anyone, but if you are going to debate, we were NOT meant to eat meat. We evolved from primates, and they are vegetarian.
Humans are omnivores. In fact, not a single species in our genus have been herbivores, all have been omnivores.
Most primates are, in fact omnivores, although predominantly vegetarian, which is probably what we should be too. As a society, the U.S. eats more meat than we should, and that is problem in terms of health, use of resources, and environmental impact. I tend to follow the guidelines in Michael Pollan's books – eat lots of different foods, mostly plants, and try to get them from local farms when possible. I just get irate when people approach vegetarianism like a religious crusade. Have a great holiday whatever you believe in, and remember to take the time to appreciate your friends and family, which is what Thanksgiving is really about.
just because we started out as omnivores doesnt mean we have to be now, it doesnt mean we cant still be healthy on a vegan diet and often vegans are more healthy than people who consume a lot of meat... i feel we have a moral obligation to reduce the suffering of animals and the environment as much as we can.. we have progressed a lot in the last million + years so we shouldnt feel like we have to hold ourselves to everything we did back then. another thing to point out is that if you think veganism is unnatural, you should remember that so is modern day factory farming as well as our ability to digest cow's milk.
Sorry, but I don't consider a diet which requires supplements because you simply cannot even get the required nutrients to live on "healthy" or "the best diet".
You can eat whatever you want. But for me, I find a "healthy diet" is one that includes fish and lean meats.
I think people should be more accomodating to vegetarians and vegans. Some of us have diet restrictions, and in order to not get sick and throw up all over your Thanksgiving table, have to avoid animal products. It's not a lot of fun to want to eat Thanksgiving dinner and have to watch everyone else enjoying it. Its depressing, so some of us would appreciate it if you didn't rub it in. Thanks!
At home we are a mix between vegetarians and vegans. I have only one person, my husband, who is a meat-eater. He eats meat occasionally and out of our home, he will normally eat whatever we eat; lots of legumes, veggies, tofu and saitan.
Since we are a mix vegetarian-vegan family we celebrate Thanksgiving eating Tuforky and veggies, vegan pumpkin pie, vegan carrot cake and Nogg(from Silk). But since every year we host my in-laws for this celebration I would cook meat for them. I don't expect them to follow our traditions and I respect their decision, as I also expect them to respect ours.
To any celebration I wouldn't expect anybody to bring their food to our home, I always prepare something for the meat-eaters. When I am invited to any of my friends' homes I don't expect them to have anything special to fit my diet. I simply eat veggies or whatever is available, without meat. It is all about making things easy and simple, but the most important part, to enjoy the moment we have to get together, not worrying too much about the food.
Agreed. My wife and I are both vegetarian, but our daughter is not. We're very much looking forward to hosting Thanksgiving at our house this year and are expecting a group of about 20 people (all meat eaters except for my wife and me). We'll happily prepare a turkey (not a tofurkey), someone else is bringing a ham, and we'll have a big variety of other items for everyone to enjoy whether they eat meat or not. I never knew that people had to declare themselves as Vegetarian or Carnivores before they could enjoy things like cheesy potatoes, buttered broccoli, corn on the cob, cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes with brown sugar, dinner rolls, apple pie, pecan pie, iced tea and plenty of other traditional Thanksgiving meal items that don't typically have meat in them (even here in the South), but the replies to this article would make it look like everything on a Thanksgiving table will involve meat by default and that there's absolutely nothing that meat eaters and vegetarians both enjoy without significantly altering the usual recipe. Seems a shame that it looks like plenty of families and friends represented on this forum will be unhappily apart on Thanksgiving Day because they can't figure out how to allow others to choose to eat meat or not, and they're unwilling to accept or accommodate each other's choices . . . even on an excellent day like Thanksgiving. Jeesh.
My question to you is, what choice you had giving to the animals that were slaughter. Kill on the name of Thanksgiving is not a good thing. If you are really a vegetarian you wanted to point out to people to be healthy, meat doesn’t digest on your system, only 50% of the meat that you eat gets digested.
So is nothing wrong to point to people that what they are doing is not healthy , make people to know the true is not to be rude or anything like that, of course we should be polite and mention a healthy life style to those who wanted to listen and not to the people who are very narrow minded
I am sad for your husband
I'm sad for you
Did it ever occur to any of you that just maybe vegetarians don't LIKE the taste of meat? And I'm not militant about it. That's just how it is for me.
My sister in law is a vegetarian and I always make sure to have food for her on Thanksgivng along with anyother day of the week she may pop in. I always keep veggie burgers, tofurkey and chick patties in the freezer for her. But why shouldn't I, she has meat in her house for me!
I wonder if the people who insist that guests eat meat to be polite would also insist that an alcoholic or a pregnant woman have a drink "to be polite" or that someone with a nut allergy have some nuts "to be polite." People make food choices for all sorts of reasons, some good and some bad, but I would far prefer inviting a vergetarian than my cousin with the obnoxious husband.
It really is a non-issue on Thanksgiving when so many of the traditional foods are not made with meat.
In response to most of the above ocmments: Unlike vegetarianism, veganism is not a diet or something someone does simply for their health. It is a core belief system that encompasses your entire way of life from how you dress to where you shop and eat, what products you buy, and so on. It is more like someone's religion, and is not something you can simply put aside for a day. Please understand this and respect the beliefs of others during this time of year. Thank you.
I have a vegetarian friend that I have over every Thanksgiving. She is my friend and I want her to be confortable at my gatherings so I always make certain to have a vegetarian main course to go along with the turkey. Last year everybody loved the veggie lasagna that was meant to be for her.
"Get off your soapbox" is what meat-eaters say when they realize their eating habits are indefensible to a rational person. There are three reasons to eat meat:
1) You are uninformed about the impact on your body and the environment.
2) You value the pleasure of tasting meat more highly than the lives of animals.
3) You feel that it is too difficult to abstain from meat because it is the societal norm.
In short, you are either stupid, selfish, lazy or a combination thereof.
You can't be serious...
Is there a reason for eating meat that I missed? Certainly not a valid one, or you would have posted it.
Meat is tasty, not murder. Unless you are a cannibal I suppose. That might be murder.
The Masked Avenger, apparently you have never worked in a meat processing plant.
You are entitled to your opinion but I personally like meat and especially turkey. So get over your self
You like meat because you feel that it is delicious enough to justify an industry that slaughters billions of animals each year after they live out their short lives in deformity and pain, in a windowless room, ankle-deep in their own excrement.
You must think really highly of yourself to hold such an opinion; I think it is you who needs to get over himself! FYI, that would put you in the category of "selfish".
Anyone else?
If I wasn't supposed to eat animals, why are they so tasty?
Meat is an acquired taste. We learn to eat it in this culture at about 6 months because most parents incorrectly believe that it is necessary for healthy development. Many children resist eating it until they become accustomed to it. I'm not telling you anything you wouldn't already know if you spent your time informingt yourself about what you put into your body and less time posting trash on people's comments.
Just watch this wonderful movie on http://www.meat.org narrated by Paul Mccartney great movie for meat eaters
Alcibiades – you are clearly too wrapped up in your smug sense of self-righteousness to actually listen to contrary opinions to your own, and that makes you the poster child for what omnivores cannot stand about proselytizing vegans. To address your points in order:
1. I am very informed about the impact of farms and ranches on the environment. I choose to eat meat because I like it and my body has been evolved to eat a wide variety of foods, including meat. I buy my meat and plants from small, local farms because I can afford to do so. Animals have been raised for food by humans for thousands of years. Until global population took off in tandem with the industrial revolution, small farms and family farms were sufficient to produce enough food without a significant impact on the planet. Factory farms do, in fact, treat animals and plants in an inhumane way and have a significant impact on the environment, but they exist because the world's population continues to grow geometrically and needs to be fed. If you do not have an alternative solution to this problem, then simply criticizing factory farms offers no solution and just paints you as a pompous jerk. Criticism without an alternate solution is one dimensional and intellectually bankrupt.
2. Correct – I do enjoy the experience of eating meat which necessarily involves taking the life of the animal. I prefer to see that life taken as humanely as possible, but I also believe that meat in moderate quantities is a very concentrated form of protein, vitamins, and minerals and has significant nutritional value.
3. Wrong – see #2 – I eat meat because I enjoy it. I also eat a lot of vegetarian and vegan dishes because I like them too. I try not to succumb to societal pressure.
I am not stupid, selfish, or lazy. I am respectful and open minded for the most part, and try not to attack others who do not share my beliefs under the pretense of high-minded intellectual conceit to mask my elitist intolerance, like yourself. Have a nice Thanksgiving holiday.
Respect
I don't take as much issue with meat-eaters like you who are more aware of the impact of their behaviors and take strides to eat meat conscientiously. But I think you could agree that you are not representative of the general population in that regard. I was being abrasive on purpose, in hopes that someone might try and defend a practice that is morally unjustifiable. As an introspective person, maybe you can appreciate my use of a forum in which people can express ideas and invite criticism.
To address one of your points, the amount of corn and grain that is fed to animals in factory farms could easily feed every starving man, woman and child on this overpopulated planet. That is not to say that there aren't problems with the way we farm those crops, but there's a solution for you. The reason that factory farms exist is so that you can buy a cheeseburger for a dollar, not because people would starve otherwise. Although you probably don't eat those cheeseburgers, if your eating habits are as you say they are.
I probably shouldn't have boiled those reasons down to "stupid, selfish and lazy", but can't you see my point? The only legitimate reason that anyone eats meat is because it tastes good. If you value the taste of flesh more than the life of an animal (not to mention the health of your body and the planet), don't you think that's even a little vain? Do you place no value on the life of an animal? Have you ever had a pet? There are plenty of things that taste absolutely delicious that do not involve slaughter. It blows me away how many perfectly compassionate people have the cruelest eating habits.
I kind of guessed you were going for effect – me too. I agree with you that using grain to feed livestock for food is an incredibly inefficient use of the grain. Feeding livestock with grain rather than pasture is an unnatural way to feed them, and leads to poor health for the animal as well as higher fat content in the meat. The U.S. eats too much meat – it really should be used more as a dietary supplement, but of course the beef industry and their lobbyists would not like that. I tend to follow the guidelines in Michael Pollan's writing, which is to basically eat a lot of different foods, mostly plants and whole grain, with relatively small amounts of meat. It just irks me when people try to "convert" you from one side to the other (and I know it goes both ways). Whatever type of Thanksgiving meal you serve, enjoy it and take the time to reflect on the people and things in life that are important – that is what Thanksgiving is for more than the food itself.
You are the reason why certain people do not like vegans.
1) You are uninformed about the impact on your body and the environment.
Meat is highly protein enriched food – in normal amount is has no negative effect. If normally consumed from overexpending populations of animals it has no impact on environment.
2) You value the pleasure of tasting meat more highly than the lives of animals.
I am hunter. As all human kind. You would not be here if your ancestors would give up on meat.
Human rights > Animal rights, always.
3) You feel that it is too difficult to abstain from meat because it is the societal norm.
Nope – just like the taste. Live with this.
In short, you are either stupid, selfish, lazy or a combination thereof.
Sorry – but based on your statement it is you are stupid, offensive and totally close minded.
High-five! So far, no one has been able to rationally rebuke your arguments – good for you.
I love it when meat-eaters get all angry that they're being attacked, when all you're doing is pointing out the truth.
This is a very pitiful attempt to lie... Rex and me answered the comment logically and fully.
Eating meat is a CHOICE. Hunting it – is a lifestyle. You call it slavery, habit and cruelty and that call yourself open minded... Am I the only one who sees the irony?
Seriously, "Rex and me"? Are you inbred?
If someone told you this was the best way to get someone to adopt a vegan or vegetarian diet, they were wrong. How about making a nice vegan/vegetarian meal and invite your meat eating friends over to show them how delicious a non-meat diet can be instead of berating them for eating meat? Before I became a vegetarian I did feel bad about the harm it cause animals but I didn't know what I was going to eat. Before I actually made a conscious decision to stop eating meat, I decided to have a few meat-free days in which I would try things I'd never tried in order to gain some variety. After about a month of doing that, I realized I had so much variety that I no longer felt that I'd miss meat.
I will concede that it is much more effective to invite friends over for a vegan meal to inform them of the benefits of my diet; I pride myself on being an exceptional cook! Unfortunately my home isn't large enough for all of the people on this thread ;) I should have presented my opinions a little more delicately, but I get so frustrated with the people who post misinformation, silly pro-meat slogans and the like. I admit- as someone who has spent a lot of time and energy educating myself on this topic, it brings me some sadistic pleasure to refute their bumper sticker wisdom by pointing out how woefully uninformed they are about their eating habits.
We eat meat(s), fowl and fish because it's part of a BALANCED diet.
We don't sit around eating 2lbs of meat every meal. At best I may eat 6-8oz portion once or twice a day along with vegetables and bread/milk.
People like you make make the rest of us puke.
Remember the word .... Balanced ...
The serving size is 2-3 oz a meal if you are eating meat. Too much protein causes the bone to loose calcium.
1. Equating ignorance with stupidity doesn't say much for your rhetorical skills. It insults your audience, and proves you don't understand that there is a key difference between the two. Ignorance can be fixed, stupidity alas cannot. We will figure out which you are based on how you react to this.
2. Having a 16 month old at home, I can tell you, that we made no special efforts to get him to eat meat. Sometimes he wants it, sometimes he doesn't. We didn't give him meat until he was about a year old. He likes chicken more than broccoli, and when we let him have one, he likes hot dogs more than anything (Though cheerios and shredded wheat come in a close second).
3. The science on the optimal human diet is still not out. There are quite a few people who are convinced, with reason, that at least some animal based foods are necessary in the diet. Considering the fact that humans probably evolved as opportunistic omnivores, this makes sense.
4. Further, it is natural for all animals to put preference to their own species over another species. Humans are the only species that is capable of eating meat that even questions whether it should or not.
I was being purposefully inflammatory by equating ignorance with stupidity, indulgence with selfishness, and conformity with laziness. Just the same, I can't imagine someone wanting to be an ignorant, indulgent conformist.
I would say that if you have a good grasp on recent medical research, you would find a strong consensus that a vegetarian diet has a lot of health benefits. Certainly you would find that the average American diet contains dangerous amounts of meat.
And thanks for pointing out that humans are the only animals capable of that level of self-awareness, though I thought that was obvious. I will point out that although we are capable of questioning whether or not we should eat meat, many of us never question it at all. Those who do (and who are honest with themselves and the values by which they hope to live) often end up abstaining from meat.
While research strongly leans in the direction that most Americans eat too much meat, the jury is still out. Further more, while the evidence suggests that a vegetarian diet is healthier than the standard American diet, the evidence also shows that it might be healthier than vegan diets. This raises the question of whether a no meat diet or a restricted meat diet is healthiest. I know a lot of vegetarians and vegans like to site the China study, but of course the China study was studying a culture where meat provided about 10% of the calories in the diet! It is not self-evident that the correct conclusion is that a vegetarian or vegan diet is best.
I was pointing out the level of human self-awareness and that they are moral agents primarily because your "rhetoric" seemed to indicate that eating meat was more or less akin to cannibalism (i.e., the obvious inference you were going for was that there was little moral difference between eating a cow and your next door neighbor). Further that difference in awareness, means that it is not as clear a case as you you state about whether eating meat is a moral or immoral act.
Further, you provide no basis for your moral calculus. Obviously, if it is based on a religious belief then you might have grounds for such an absolutist position. On the other hand, if it is based on some secular ethical system, then you have no basis arguing for such an absolutist position since those systems don't have any basis that suggests they are universal definitions of good.
I'm glad that you have taken the time to read up on the medical research. I have a lot of respect for people who take the time to educate themselves about their diets. That said, you don't have to be religious to know the difference between right and wrong. Let's try an ethical dilemma.
Fact: You can live a healthy life without causing the suffering and death of animals. Do you:
A) recognize that we are all animals and there is no reason to cause unnessecary pain and death to fellow life forms, or
B) eat them anyway because they taste good.
Anyone who answers with the latter is not in a position to give me an ethics lecture.
It's really not that hard to be a vegetarian at Thanksgiving. There's so much food, and most of it is already vegetarian. The only thing I don't eat is the turkey. We have mashed potatoes (I bring my own gravy mix), stuffing (easy enough to cook a portion outside the turkey), sweet potatoes, green bean casserole (made with cream of celery soup to accommodate a mushroom allergy), creamed onions, rolls, salad... There's always a ton of food. Other meals, where there's only one choice, can be much harder. For a few years my mom insisted on cooking me a veggie patty to substitute for the turkey, but there's so much other food there's really no need to substitute.
Sheesh, so much vitriol from both sides of the issue. If there are vegans/vegetarians at my house during Thanksgiving, I don't make them feel out of place, and I'm liable to kick anyone out of my house that would do that. I welcome the opportunity to learn something new. There are past holidays where I've invited them into my kitchen to show me how to make a favored dish of theirs. Most times, their dishes are the ones that are eaten first.
The whole idea is supposed to be enjoying everyone being together, and giving thanks for that bond. Or at least that's what I thought.
the anger is really disturbing. maybe its all the hormones in the meat? why would you care what i eat?
I haveTthanksgiving at my house every year. I've been a vegetarian for over 12 years. I serve a free range, organic turkey for my family and friends who eat meat and expect a turkey at Thanksgiving. It's a little difficult for me to prepare but I suck it up and make sure that turkey is as tasty as I possibly can. I've never tried it, but my guests really love it! The reason I started doing Thanksgiving at my house is because I was so tired of going to someone else's house and not being able to eat anything but dinner rolls. I don't see why catering to someone's dietary needs, for whatever reason, should be a problem.
Ah, gotta love Thanksgiving, meat-eaters never miss a chance to act all high and mighty.
You are sooooo full of shit. Why can't you just allow people to LIKE meat?
While I eat meat, the Thanksgiving feast at my house is a joint offering between all the guests. Since everyone brings something to share, there is a guarantee that everyone will have something they can/want to eat. 7 of the 13 people this year are vegetarian so we'll be having a hefty veggie lasagna beside the smallest turkey money can buy.
Religious, ethical, personal, and (yes) medical reasons are all something to consider. After all, vegetarianism isn't always a choice. I wouldn't force someone at my table to eat something they're uncomfortable (or unable) to eat and I wouldn't ever forbid someone from bringing something to share. How insecure in their cooking or traditions does someone have to be to force everyone else into such strict confines at a meal like Thanksgiving?
As a vegan, people always ask me, "What do you eat?" There are so many great foods that don't have meat or dairy in them. Sometimes, I don't think people give them a chance. They think I just sit around and eat sticks and grass all of the time. If I am invited to a meal, I usually just mention (because people don't normally remember) that I am trying not to eat meat or dairy and I would love to bring something to compliment their planned menu. That usually works. I don't eat meat for ethical reasons, but I don't sit around telling people why. To me, it's only responsible to know where your food comes from and if you don't, it's because you don't really want to know.
Since I live too far to visit my parents for thanksgiving, my nearby relatives often invite me for Thanksgiving dinner. They are really fantastic cooks- but the fact that I’m a vegetarian is somehow always an issue. And they’re the type that don’t let their guest bring anything. The first year I went they cooked me a salmon fillet (I had once mentioned that when I travel to places where there are literally no meatless options, I will be a “flexitarian” and eat the local fish). To be polite I ate it of course, but got lots of questions at the table from the other guests about why I’d eat fish but not turkey. The next year I begged them not to make me anything special and filled up on sidedishes. Still got lots of questions as to why I wasn’t eating turkey. Honestly, people who complain that vegetarians are preachy should quit asking them to explain their life choices at the dinner table. It shouldn’t have to be this awkward, and yet somehow it always is.
This year we’re visiting my boyfriend’s parents, who are southern and big meat eaters, which made me a bit nervous at first. But his mom is being so incredibly gracious about making sure there’s enough for me. She even asked me for main dish veggie recipe ideas.
What is the difference between a vegan and a vegetarian?
vegan is much more strict... they (like vegetarians) dont eat meat, but they also dont eat any animal byproducts- eggs, milk, cheese.. you'd be surprised how many foods are affected!! My best friend is Raw vegan which takes it to another level- they cant really cook anything over a certain temp... that one really boggles my mind, id never be able to!
Properly speaking, from the strictest definition, a vegan strives not to use any animal products in their life at all. As such, veganism is necessarily speaking an ethical/moral choice not to make use of animals who are unable to consent to their use. In contrast, being a vegetarian, does not necessarily imply any particular ethical world view. Thus (as far as I understand), not everyone who eats a vegan diet is vegan.
I can't wait for our Thanksgiving meal. A plate full of delicious variety which I don't normally make for myself throughout the year. Get stuffed and have leftovers the next day.
All vegan of course!
Veganism is as much a 'personal dietary choice' as slavery is a 'personal labor choice'. Ignorance is no excuse.
Wow, as someone who is not a vegan I am gonna go ahead and still use juuuuust enough critical thinking skills to figure out connecting veganism to slavery is...pretty dumb.
eating meat is morally equivalent to slavery is what I am saying
You are an idiot. Sorry – nothing to do with your diet, just observation.
And you are the one; the vegan/vegetarian who is the reason why many of the rest of the vegan/vegetarian's here keep hearing about their "self-righteous attitudes".
Sorry but Thanksgiving is my personal revenge on turkeys(was attacked by a bunch of them once). I will be serving it, you will eat it, and you will like it. If you can't handle that then don't come.
It sounds like people wouldn't want to attend your Thanksgiving if you insist on being a tyrant.
I'm not a restaurant and I am only one person. I cannot make two separate meals(one for meat and one for vegans). And there are plenty of sides that veggies can eat like pumpkin pie, green bean casserole, mashed potatoes, etc. I was raised to appreciate the meal prepared and not to demand special treatment.
...that doesn't mean that you have to be a douche about it. Do you actually have any friends? Or just people that you tell how to live their lives?
wellllll...more turkey for me!!!
We have always had meat eaters and vegetarians at our Thanksgivings, and I don't understand why it has to be an issue. The more options, the better! For meat eaters, too! And being vegetarian does not mean forcing anything on anyone. I have never once required someone else to eat as I do, so why would I limit anyone else's options. Especially when so many "traditional" dishes do not need to be made with meat: stuffing, mashed potatoes, yams, rolls, pies, green bean casserole, etc...
This is my first Thanksgiving as a vegetarian and my parents are hosting dinner. I offered to make a few vegetarian dishes for Thanksgiving dinner that everyone will enjoy. I also suggested a kosher, free-range turkey. They taste better anyway.
I know many people with special diets. Not only are there vegitarians, but people with food allergies, low sodium or sugar free or gluten free diets, there are many possibilities. I've never thrown a dinner party where I do not personally know the guests and their eating considerations. It is very easy to accomodate special diets, and most of my friends with special eating considerations will ask to bring something, which I do not take offense to, but rather, am happy for the help. I'm surprised there are so many people that are offended by this. I guess it depends on your past experiences with people who have special eating considerations, but I have always been able to accomodate my guests.
Nice comment, very well said.
I am not a big fan of meat. I do not eat Turkey. Just because I am a picky eater does not mean I will ruin everyone else's Thanksgiving. For some reason, everyone feels they need to make extra food for me, but the truth is, I am 100% happy chowing down on bread stuff, mashed potatoes, yams, salad, and all of the other veggies sitting about... and then I am still hungry enough to hit that pumpkin pie :D
I think all of the anger towards vegetarians and vegans comes from a place of guilt. Why else would people get so mad about how other people are choosing to live their lives when it doesn't affect them at all?
I used to feel that vegetarians were on a soapbox, until I realized exactly what you said. I felt guilty, so I became one too. Now I'm vegan. Who woulda thunk?
I get irritated whenever anyone tries to force their ideals on me. Whether it's religion or eating meat. I have no guilt eating meat because veggies and fruits actually do make me ill(I get the runs like you wouldn't believe, my body can't handle the fiber).
Because 1) some people feel threatened or bewildered when they meet people who are different from then and 2) some vegetarians/vegans can be kind of judgmental towards meat eaters. I feel no guilt whatsoever about eating meat. In fact, I rather enjoy it. I enjoy eating veggies too, but I don't see the need to eat them exclusively. I can make my own dietary decisions while respecting those of others.
Being a vegetarian over half my life, it still amuses me that people are baffled about my diet. I get the "What do you eat?" question often. I eat everything you eat, except meat. Thing is, we're a Black family with roots in the South, which means virtually EVERY dish has meat in it. My family is so good and gracious about making things I and others with diet restrictions can eat, but chances are they won't eat their own meatless cooking. They're scared of what it'll taste like. It's a shame, because they don't give themselves enough credit for the good cooks they are.
The strange part to me are the wonderful cooks and otherwise skilled hostesses who seem to be afraid to cook without meat and make a huge deal out of how much of an imposition it was to cook for a vegetarian guest... even though they knew the guest was vegetarian when the invitation was issued and even though the non-meat version of the side dishes they made to accommodate the vegetarian were devoured with rave reviews by their guests along with any dishes brought by the vegetarian while the meat dishes result in left overs. Even though I've been vegetarian for decades this still baffles me.
I'm a vegetarian, and my family is pretty cool with it. We have a pretty big Thanksgiving celebration, and even though it's held at my parents' house, my mom isn't the only one responsible for making all the food. My relatives bring the side dishes that are inadvertently vegetarian anyway, so I never run out of stuff to eat! Plus, I like to cook a lot, so I'm always trying out sweet new recipes on my family. To all the haters on both sides of the issue: live and let live. Your food choices don't affect me, and mine don't affect you either, so shut up and stuff your face with that Thanksgiving goodness!
I have weird food allergies (Can't eat any leafy herbs except cilantro.) and so I can sympathize with the vegetarians. Forcing someone to eat what you think they should eat is not being hospitable. That kind of mentality is best reserved for fighting with your own kids when they won't eat their vegetables. Is that really how you want someone to remember your Thanksgiving dinner?
I don't understand why so many meat eaters are so offended by vegetarians. I went "veggie" four months ago, and when I informed my family of my decision, they looked at me like I was crazy. Vegetarianism is a personal choice – I'm not forcing my agenda on anyone, and I would appreciate the same respect and courtesy from the meat eaters in my life. The upcoming Thanksgiving holiday has been quite the source of stress for the people I'll be dining with, but I offered to bring a meatless dish or two and that seemed to settle any disputes. I don't expect anyone to accommodate me; likewise, I don't expect anyone to change anyone's values or ideas. To each his own!
I am not offended by vegetarians, I am however offended by most vegetarians constant shoving that eating style in the faces of those of us who are not. I cant stand stand vegetables, rarely eat them at all, but when I have people over I do make sure there's a salad and a vegetable dish, if someone offers to bring it. If thats not good enough for you, you are welcome to bring your own, but don't ruin my guest's evening by trying to shove it down their throats or criticize what they do eat.
If someone is showing up at your house and criticizing other guests for what they eat I don't think their problem is vegetarianism so much as rudeness. I'm kind of astonished by all the "Vegetarians on their soapboxes! Grr!" references. I eat meat and I've never been criticized for it by my vegetarian friends. Two years ago I lived in a house where I was the ONLY meat eater, and there were no problems.
We usually wind up with a few guest-made dishes at Thanksgiving dinners. Everyone makes sure they get to eat something they like. No one is inconvenienced or offended. Having a vegetarian at a Thanksgiving dinner doesn't have to trouble anyone. Now, if I had a vegan guest, I'd have to start doing some research.
I don't think there are as many vegetarians on their soapboxes as meat eaters claim. I have experienced the exact opposite. I never want to talk about it, and constantly am debated on the subject. If you ask me, the very presence of a vegetarian makes meat eaters question their conscience and they don't like it. They think you are judging them just by BEING a vegetarian– but really it's their own nagging conscience.
I am soooo sick of meat eaters labeling vegetarians and vegans as preachers who shove their beliefs down people's throats. Really, how many have actually done this to you? As a vegan I am constantly harassed about what I do and don't eat. It's one thing when I decline something and people ask why, "I don't eat meat, dairy, or eggs" and that's it. The only time its ever expanded on is when I'm pestered about it. I have a coworker who obsesses over it and says he wants to break into my home at night and drop chilli in my mouth while I'm sleeping. On work trips peoples loudly smack meat in my face or loudly praise how good their "dead animal" is. I don't mind answering questions but meat eaters can get so defensive and antagonistic, I am so tired of having to be a target by people like you.
Fortunately, when I told my family I was going vegetarian they already thought I was crazy.
I never real "went veggie". Just decided to try it out. After 25+ years, still at it and it's still working. The longer I went without meat, the more objectively I was able to look back on it and the less it appealed to me.
The longer you keep at it, the easier it gets. You will develop large repertoire of dished to choose from.
Wait for it – you're in for a lifetime of rude questions by (sometimes) ignorant people. The best answers are always delivered calmly, with a sense of humor.
My husband and I eat meat, while our kids (ages 17 and 11) are vegetarian. So is my sister and one of her daughters. So 4 out of the 11 of us are vegetarian. This year, all of the side dishes will be veggie friendly (mashed potatoes, stuffing made with vegetable broth, etc.), we will have turkey, turkey gravy and meatless gravy, and vegetarian black bean soup. It's not hard to make everyone happy!
I eat meat but my husband is a vegetarian. If we're invited to somewhere (not just Thanksgiving), we let the hosts know and ask if we should bring a dish or two that my husband can eat but yet the other guests will also enjoy. I don't see the problem with this. It's selfish to impose your food rules on somebody else though I've seen both meat eaters and vegetarians do so. Life is a compromise, is it not?
And thank you for addressing this issue – I've had similar hellish Thanksgiving experiences and wondered what was the purpose of being so evil and demeaning by inviting us only to make us a target.
I am vegan for ethical, personal and religious reasons. As for those who say we are unhealthy, you don't see that many overweight and obese vegans do ya? I understand people have different views and we always offer to bring food and we usually find that others want to try ours and ask us to bring the same dish year after year.
Actually, I have seen some overweight veg*ns. And I've read books by several authors (Nina Planck, Lierre Keith, and others) that were formerly veg*n, they reported being "soft" on a veg*n diet.
I'm not criticizing your diet, it's your choice, I'm just saying there are in fact overweight veg*ns out there.
This is why god gave us inciscors!!! To eat meat!!!
Actually they are for grinding plant materials. You must have meant canines.
Well god didn't give us anything, but that's a whole other argument. We Evolved from a class of primates who's diets consisted predominately on fruits and "meaty" vegetables and roots. Our teeth are actually best suited to a raw all vegetable diet than anything else. Our teeth aren't very good at breaking off chunks of raw meat, or breaking it down. Which is one of the primary reasons meat is cooked (it makes it easier to chew, and to digest). If you honestly believe you were "designed" to eat meat, by all means please go enjoy a raw steak. Let us know how it goes...
This is true, however, our distant ancestors diverged from the rest of the great apes in many ways, not least of all the fact that we do eat meat and require a vitamin (B12) that ONLY comes from animal sources.
Hunting and consuming meat and fish, caloric dense foods, helped our ancestors develop and power our brains (which use most of our caloric intake).
@Reykjavik – actually, b12 comes not only from animal sources, but from microorganisms that grow on plants and in the soil, and on certain algae. And human bodies produce it in the intestines.
Also, most nutritional yeast is fortified with non-animal B12, so any diligent vegetarian/vegan will be good to go.
The portion of the human intestines that contain the bacteria which produce B12 is posterior to the portion that absorbs it. So though it is produced there, it is not absorbed.
Yes, nutritional yeast does produce it, however I highly doubt our prehistoric ancestors were wandering around taking multivitamins and eating nutritional yeast.
There has never been a completely vegan society (vegetarian, yes, but it is more than feasable to get all of your nutrients with the inclusion of milk and eggs), it is a modern invention. If you choose to eat that way, you have every right to do so and I will not argue that. I was actually a vegan for a few years of my life. Just remember to be sure to plan the diet correctly and supplement the vitamins that it cannot provide.
Thanks for replying civilly. I am happy to stand corrected when I stand corrected! :)
Actually, our teeth are not particularly good at eating a raw anything anymore - if you compare our teeth to those of chimps and bonobos, you will find they are not as robust, nor are our jaw muscles nearly as strong. We have been cooking our food, plant, animal and other long enough now that our bodies have evolved towards eating cooked foods. That is why salads (minus calorie dense dressing) are always good for loosing weight; our bodies suck at getting the calories out of most of that food.
I have been a vegetarian for over 25 years. To say "just eat meat this one day" is like telling a Christian "Just worship Satan once a year". It is a deeply felt spiritual decision, especially if you have stayed with it for a long time.
Fortunately, my family has been very understanding and I still have a sense of humor. I eat bread, veggies, potatoes and anything else that is meat free. I also bring along a large vegetarian dish to share. I take people arguing with me that the dish had to have meat in it as a compliment. Of necessity, I have become a very accomplished chef.
I have hosted vegetarian thanksgivings at my home and you can rest assured that the lack of a turkey did not dampen the spirits. Non vegetarians who attended were quite surprised by the variety my friends and I could bring to the table.
I generally need no extra accommodation. If you choose not to accept me for who I am I will not be back. I do not discuss vegetarianism, unless asked. When asked I will give very general answers. If you want me to discuss details, I will, but I do not do so otherwise. I respect your right to choose your diet.
I have been a vegetarian through 14 Thanksgivings. In all honesty... It's not that hard. Meat makes up a couple of the dishes, and for the rest it's non-existent. So what if I don't eat the turkey? There are plenty of other delicious things to enjoy. I can take a few jokes about it from family and friends, but I know they love me anyhow despite my "freakish eating habits." :) Thanksgiving is more about the company you keep than the food you eat.
I would make a couple of things but not go overboard. I would also look and see if anything can be easily altered to satisfy their dietary restrictions, as long as it doesn't appreciably effect the taste or quality of the food.
Another thing that has me surprised, to me it is extremely rude to bring food to a meal unless it is a pot-luck style meal or the host asks you to (desserts aside, anyone can bring dessert!). To me it's like saying "I don't think you're good enough at making the meal, so I'm going to make sure there is something good. In the case of dietary restrictions, like vegitarian diets or allergies, then bringing a dish is fine, but make sure to ask ahead of time and explain the reasoning.
Bringing a dish to add to a meal should definitely be cleared with the host ahead of time.
These days, it is imperative to discuss menu issues ahead of time. Vegetarian, lactose intolerance, peanut allergies, diabetes, gluten intolerance, shell fish allergies and so on.
I offer to bring a dish to lessen the burden on the host. No one who has ever eaten my cooking has said no.
People choose not to eat meat for a lot of different reasons. The impact on their health, the environment, and the animals come to mind. I'm sorry that these commenters can't understand sticking to your values EVERY day. I wouldn't ask someone to ignore their diabetes because it's Halloween, drink egg nog in spite of their lactose intolerance because it's Christmas, or eat pork in spite of their religious beliefs because it's a 4th of July cookout. When friends suggest dinner at their house, I let them know I don't eat meat and tell them that I can just get food on my own and then meet them out for a movie or whatever after dinner or bring a veggie friendly dish to share. Friends have rarely taken me up on this offer though, and even though I tell my friends not to make anything special, that I can just help myself to sides and the salad, they usually go out of their way to make a veggie friendly main course, just like they would if I couldn't eat salt due to a heart condition or couldn't eat wheat due to an allergy. I never expect anyone to cook me a special meal, and I take responsibility for getting myself fed by planning ahead and not assuming there will be something meat-free on the table, but given that most people who invite me into their homes want to make their guests comfortable and welcome, it's rarely an issue. I extend the same courtesy to my friend with a nut allergy and the one who is allergic t soy lethicin and to my in-laws who do not eat pork or shellfish. I feel sorry for all the vegetarians and vegans out there that have such disrespectful friends, and I also pity the commenters who can't understand what it means to have integrity, to do the things you believe in, ESPECIALLY when it is inconvenient.
Very eloquently said.
(As stated in another reply) I'm a meat eater, but this type of issue is one that is a matter of respect, and I like your outlook on it.
I agree, well said. Vegetarianism for non-religious purposes is a choice you yourself made, not anyone else. I never expect anyone to cater to me. I eat the same things as everyone else, just without the meat.
I'm a vegetarian but will be partaking in some turkey with my family this year. My wife, also a vegetarian, will be skipping the turkey. It's a non-issue to all parties involved.
I choose not to eat meat for a number of reason that I only share if asked, I never openly frown on people's choices to eat what they do but rarely receive the same courtesy in return.
I'm an American and therefore I've become used to judgmental, selfish, close-minded people.
You're not a vegetarian if you're going to eat meat. It's actually the definition of a vegetarian not to eat meat so while your wife may remain a vegetarian, you should cease calling yourself one.
My husaband and I are vegetarians who host most Thanksgivings. I make chestnut parsnip soup to start followed by roasted root vegetables (carrots, onions, sweet potatoes roasted in herbs), butternut squash with apples and maple sugar, steamed broccoli, steamed broccoli spinach pear salad, home made biscuits and three to four kinds of pie (apple, cherry, pumpkin and maybe toll house). My Mom will bring over a perfectly roasted 20lb bird with her classic English stuffing. My siblings will bring their specialities and we will all sit down to a great dinner with the chaos of the grandkids running around. My husband and I are the only vegetarians; but are fabulous cooks. Mom gets the showpiece and attention that she wants. It may not work for everyone but it works for us.
Very similar to our family Thanksgiving and my husbands family. Everyone has a specialty dish that they bring, both meat-eaters and vegitarians can sit down and eat to their heart's content. It has never been an issue as there are plenty of non-meat dishes. By the way, that menu sounds delightful.
I make Thanksgiving dinner for a large number of people – my son's gf is a vegetarian and a new friend of ours has celiac disease. Because of the number of people we host, I make 2 turkeys – 1 with stuffing, 1 without. The gf eats the stuffing and all the veggies (we make a ton of different kinds) and the woman with celiac disease can eat the unstuffed turkey. It takes a little more effort, but this way everyone is welcome, there's always plenty to eat and we all have a good time without anyone feeling left out.
Considering Vegetarianism is akin to a religous tennant to some of us, comments that I should just "Shut up and eat what you serve me" is is down right intollerant. If you wish to eat meat, that is your choice. I would not chastise you for it at your table. But if you invite me to dinner, have some consideration for me as well.
I second that, Lucy. It's a ridiculous idea that personal values should be thrown aside in the spirit of "manners." I've never tried to convince someone to stop eating meat unless they've asked me to, but I can't go anywhere without someone asking me "why are you?" and "don't you miss meat?" or "are you sure you don't want to try this?" Honestly, if you can't deal with having a vegan at the table, tell them they're not invited. Most wouldn't want to be at that table in that case, anyway.
As a vegan I make it a point to always offer to bring a tray of a vegan dish to share with everybody. I find it interesting that usually my tray is the most popular one at the party and don't get to bring the leftovers home as all of it is enjoyed by all.
For those that are not aware of this, you might mean well but picking off the meat from the dish won't do – some for ethical reasons, others for health reasons. I lost count how many times I've been offered this "solution" and then they roll their eyes when I politely decline. Please understand – No insult meant for anyone. Besides, you can make and enjoy your turkey and stuffing, most side dishes are either vegan or can be easily made in a vegan version.
I also make it a point to not be rude and insult the omnivores for their choices (I know some might not agree with me). However, I find it annoying as hell that the same courtesy and respect is not reciprocated all the time and some try to harass or mock my lifestyle (I have a condition that prevent me from consuming dairy products and I avoid meats for there's a history of colon cancer in my family).
I am always very grateful and deeply touched when a gracious hostess makes it a point to have things available that my love and I can eat. So for all those omnivore hostesses that are willing to put an effort to accommodate your veggie friends and family I SALUTE YOU for your compassion, your grace and your kindness!
Wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving filled with gratitude, love and laughter
What's the big deal?!?! You invite -someone they want to contribute so let them. Making a couple of meatless dishes just in case isn't a horrible ordeal.
People who feel so strongly about not welcoming vegetarians at the Thanksgiving table should make sure all vegetarians know how you feel BEFORE they come and are forced to put up with your boorish company (not to mention having to witness your gnawing of animal carcasses, a grotesque sight most vegetarians overlook and almost don't notice when the company is enjoyable).
I became a vegan 20 years ago at age of 50., my wife, adult children and most of our friends didn't make the change! At our home we serve both meat and vegan food so all can eat and our friends also prepare food that I can eat as well! I never have any problem eating at resturants, if there isn't something on the menu that I can eat I ask to have something prepared for me! BTW I am a personal trainer, am in great shape and don't take any medication!
A point about our founding fathers, Ben Franklin was a vegetarian for most of his life.
I ALWAYS have something for my vegetarian/vegan friends!! Even at my wedding I made sure there were a lot of vegetarian options till my friend informed me 1 month before that she was now RAW vegan... yikes!! I showed her the menu & told her she could only eat the salad & fruit salad, maybe she should bring something with her.. Raw vegan is certainly where I draw the line of accommodation- they really cant eat anything!!
That's ridiculous. For years we has at least 2 vegetarians in our family. We had tons of dishes for them, as a matter of fact, out of about 8 items, the only thing that wasn't vegetarian was the turkey. It's rude to have vegetarians over & leave them with crescent rolls & a green salad. Sweet potatoes, mashed potatoes, green beans, mixed veggies, casseroles, stuffing-it's not that difficult & they were very thankful to not go hungry & be fed well. A good time was had by all.
Exactly. Meat is one dish, maybe two if you like meat in your stuffing. This whole discussion seems bizarre.
I have quite a few friends that are vegetarians. They have a very reasonable bases for not eating meat (poor conditions in which animals are raised and general health). They do not overstate their position, just don't eat meat. When they come over to eat, I don't make meat dishes. When we go over, I don't expect to eat meat. They also happen to be "freeatarians" if there are no other meatless options they'll eat a little just to be nice. But the diffucult thing for vegans and vegetarians in eating meat that after an extended period of not consuming meat their bodies aren't able to process the proteins well and it makes them sick... kind of like someone lactose intolerant being forced to drink a big glass of milk.
I just wish people would think more in terms of win/win rather than win/lose. Life would be more simple that way.
A) you bait trolls and you are on your own
B) you go into hostile territory without a bag of granola / GORP stuck in your pocket, you didn't plan properly. I've spent many a holiday at my in-laws munching from a secret stash of dried apricots & almonds – not 'cause I'm alergic or veg – 'cause I know they are lousy cooks and thus I plan ahead. Every year I offer to make something, every year my offer is rejected. So, just 'cause I can't bring something edible to share doesn't mean I don't bring something to eat. I keep it out of sight, smile politely, and don't complain before/during/after.
Protein from animal sources is vital for good health and really can't be well substituted. Lack of it can affect brain chemistry over time. (Hitler ate no meat.)
Actually there is no truth to the protein thing and Albert Einstein was a vegetarian too
Hitler did not become so abhorrent because his "brain chemistry was off" from eating no meat. The doctors told him to stop eating it, however he still snuck it from time to time. Please tell me you have critically thinking skills than to say, Rumor has it Hitler was vegetarian. Therefore, vegetarians are like Hitler.
Where do cows get their protein from, then? I don't the=ink I've ever seen a carnivorous cow, but they seem to have no developmental problems.
LOL, before I became a vegetarian I researched this issue. What you've written is just false.
"Hitler ate no meat." Funny how easy people can just spit LIES out.
Uh, hey, the 19th century is calling–they want their superstitions back. Hitler was a vegetarian? Stalin was a meat eater, what does that say about you?
I'm a vegetarian, you know what I do for a living. I'm a scientist.
da Vinci was a vegetarian and even remarked that drinking cow's milk seemed wrong. Would you like to make the case that his "brain chemistry" was off?
At any rate, what you've said simply isn't true. Virtually every major nutrition and dietetic society or organization in the world recognizes that anyone at any age (including infants, the elderly, athletes, etc.) can be healthy on a well-planned vegan diet. And note that if you wish to be healthy, ALL diets must be well-planned, not just a vegan one.
You're right, vegetarians and vegans should "get off their soapbox" this one day a year. Oh wait, except for the part that their bodies aren't accustomed to eating meat and by doing so will cause a shock to their system that WILL make them sick.
Don't invite people to your house if you don't respect what they eat. If on Thanksgiving you're that cheap that you can't afford to accomidate your guests, maybe you should just have people over that think and eat just like you do. Please don't try to be open minded on a day we are to be Thankful for family and friends. No, no a vegetarian, just not closed minded and cheap.
I would say "don't invite someone if you can't respect THEM" but well said!
Thank you Sam. In the beginning of my vegetarianism, I once ate lamb in the name of tradition, and after not eating it for 3 months I spent Christmas Day away from my family, sick in the bathroom. If Thanksgiving is a day to give thanks for being with wonderful people, why jeopardize your chance to spend time with them by eating something that will make you sick? And, on a side note, why would those wonderful people ever ask you to do something which may cause resentment... like going against your beliefs and eating meat to appease them?
Why does it bother you that someone does not choose to eat meat. Keyword: CHOOSE. I choose not to eat meat because I don't approve of the ways that animals are treated at the farms before being slaughtered. It's inhumane.
I mean would you honestly say that you if you were a pig you would be ok with watching your baby being ripped away from you after giving birth and then being crammed into a tiny fenced in area, then drugged up, and then murdered right in front of you? And you not being able to say a thing, because you can not speak?
This, my friend, is done just for your tastebuds. Just to satisfy your tastebuds for the 20 minutes it will take to enjoy that delicious meal of yours. All that sacifrice of those poor animals, for your pleasure. Just for you to *hit is out an hour later.
These are one of the reasons why vegetarians and vegans exist.
well if i was a pig, i'd probably be thinking oink oink oink!
if i was a pig i probably wouldn't be able to understand what was going on.
if i was a pig, i'd probably know that i was going to get fed, and i like food.
so... i don't buy the "if you were an animal"...
what about you, mr. broccolli? what would think about your body being ripped apart, being steamed and then eaten? plants are living creatures too!
This animosity toward people who don't eat meat is strange. All this talk of militancy and soapboxes is entirely unwarranted as well. Maybe some people who don't eat meat are preachy about it, but it certainly isn't a necessary corollary of being a vegetarian that one is militant about it.
it's not towards people who eat or don't eat meat. it's towards those who believe they can force their view down someone's throat. nothing annoys me more than someone saying "i am Pro-Vegan/Pro-Meat and you MUST be too! If you aren't siding with me, then you are a horrible person..."
that's where the hate comes from. most people are understanding until you try and FORCE something on them
What about those of us who are vegetarian due to religious beliefs and vows?
My bad – I didn't finish my thought. I became vegetarian by religious choice and am truly blessed to be born in the U.S.A. and free to make that choice. And yet, I still cook turkey at Thanksgiving, ham at Christmas, and nobody fries chicken better than I do. Call me a hypocrite that I prepare meat . . . but I don't force my beliefs on my family and friends, and most vegetarians I know, don't either. Peace everyone.
Respect to you
Thanksgiving is my favorite holiday, and I AM a vegetarian! Vegetarians chose this lifestyle, whether for religious or personal choices, and I believe it is unfair of me to expect the world to revolve around me because I don't eat turkey at Thanksgiving. If the host of the dinner asks for my input, I may make suggestions as the article said – for example, stuffing with vegetable stock and extra veggies – or I can bring a delicious vegetable side dish. Thanksgiving is as much about the delicious sides (sweet potatoes, green bean casserole, mashed potatoes) as it is about the Turkey. Vegetarians get a bad wrap for forcing their beliefs onto others. Come on, its a Turkey holiday, don't try to change that!
Thank you, thank you, thank you. A vegan married into my family and expects everyone to come to their house for Thanksgiving and eat tofurkey. I did it once. I'm done. Never again. I don't mind eating vegetarian, but having to go someplace where there is no dairy, no honey, no meat, no alcohol, no sense of humor and a militant attitude about their vegan politics is not my idea of holiday. They don't allow meat or animal products in their house so you cannot bring your own food. The final straw for me was when I saw the leather shoes, and leather purse in the coat closet belonging to these "vegans." I guess the animals aren't hurt by being skinned. I don't care how other's live, but don't expect me to go to your house and eat food that tastes like sawdust. Been there, done it.
No Alcohol? Thats not a vegan thing is it?
Tofuturkey? Yuck! Personally, I don't think it is necessary for a Vegetarian or Vegan to offer meat to non-vegetarian guests. I do think however that offering fake meat is just a mistake. It simply highlights what you are denying the guests. Instead, if I were vegetarian, or when I do cook vegetarian meals, I try to find ways to make dishes that don't try to pretend they are something they are not. If I make veggie burgers, I don't make ones that pretend to be meat.
Off the top of my head, I can think of a relatively easy dish... (And remember I am not a vegetarian here!). Take a fairly large pumpkin (or a number of small ones equal to your number of guests) and stuff it. You could make a vegetarian bread stuffing, or stuff it with seasonal vegetables or even pumpkin rissoto. If you are just vegetarian as opposed to vegan, go crazy and add some cream or cheese (or both!). Bake in the oven for several hours. You would have a great center of attention that replaces the turkey but reminds people of the season.
Yes, the sides are the best part! I eat meat, but if no meat were served at Thanksgiving I wouldn't mind at all. Sweet potatoes, squash, potatoes, stuffing, rice, wild rice, even broccoli! Give me seconds... and thirds! I don't really understand this whole debate. Who puts meat in these traditional dishes? In stuffing perhaps, but the rest of them?
I thought the same thing when I read the posters comment about having meat in ever single dish. Seriously? Bacon in the potatoes? Pork in the casserole? Thats not even a debate of vegetarianism v non-vegetarianism, thats just being fat.
"Militant food choices"? "Soapbox"? For christ sakes, since when does believing in something make one "militant" or "always on a soapbox"? Not wanting to eat or actively exploit sentient beings when it's extremely destructive to the environment, causes pain and suffering, and is easy to avoid and still be perfectly healthy is not any more "militant" than any other logical viewpoint. And yes, it is logical, because the only excuse you can give to not be vegan is not even a valid one– that your personal pleasures come before the feelings of non-human animals.
You can be healthy without eating or otherwise consuming animal products. It is almost always more environmentally-friendly to do so. And we know without a doubt that most animals, including all of the ones we domesticate (that's the nice word for subjugation) are every bit as conscious and feeling as we are. To deny this is on the same level as pretending the earth is 6,000 years old despite all the evidence to the contrary.
OK, I'm a vegetarian...and I also think you're on a soapbox.
I am also a vegetarian and agree with you, Kim J. I applaud you for your beliefs, @Cody, but that was a rather harsh way of expressing them.
Veganism gave me a lovely B12 deficiency and anemia. Some people just cannot tolerate it. It is extremely difficult to eat an entirely vegan diet without risking vitamin deficiencies. For some people, like myself, it is impossible.
The American Dietitic Association recommends that ALL adults take a daily multi-vitamin. Research has shown that most people (not just vegans) have low levels of B12. Additionally, all sorts of food are fortified with B12. You can buy a 3 month supply of daily supplements for less than $10, too.
Sorry if you think I'm on a soapbox, but never once did I say I was better than anyone else or was I condescending toward anyone. I'm merely telling the widely accepted facts of the day. It's irrefutable that animals (especially vertebrates) experience basic emotions and pain in the same manner as us– the Cartesian view of animals as mindless automata is ridiculous. It's irrefutable that we do NOT need to eat animals to be healthy unless you have some sort of serious and very rare medical condition.
If people are upset that such facts are irrefutable, that does not mean I'm on a soapbox. A soapbox would be me voicing my opinions, whereas I'm actually posting facts that can be easily verified by anyone on this message forum.
I made a choice for my own health. Please respect that.
Wow, no it's not. You just need to eat correctly and intelligently. B12 is hard to get, because we wash our vegetables of soil before we eat them. I take a supplement that is absorbed under the tongue. Other than that you can completely get your nutrition from food! Be sustained by the earth!
There are plenty of ways to get iron but you must pay attention to what you're eating and making sure you have a varied diet. The reason that most Vegans need to take a B12 supplement is due to the fact that industrial farming has depleted the soil so much.
Cody, with respect, please separate your beliefs from your claims about what we "know". While I think it is legitimate to argue against the Cartesian view of animals as mindless automata, I think it is unfounded to claim that most animals are conscious and sentient in the same sense that we are.
Indeed, this sort of intellectual over reaching probably does a lot to cause many to dismiss many vegan claims. It is one thing to claim that cows, pigs and even turkeys are capable of feeling pain and feeling suffering, it is another to claim the same of a clam (which has no central nervous system).
Further, if animals are sentient (your term, not mine), then why are they not moral agents? A lion will never willingly become a vegan. So if they are not moral agents, then they are certainly not sentient or conscious in the same sense that we are.
Now I am not saying there are not good and valid ethical reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan, but if you need to avoid the animals are like us argument if you are going to convince the rest of us.
I lift weight regularly and exercise quite vigorously and I take pride in being a slender yet very strong female. I've tried switching to vegetarian lifestyle because of all the possible benefits (including environmental.) I became weak and lightheaded each time I tried to sprint, lift weights vigorously, or do a plyometric workout. My muscle mass went down and I started gaining fat, there was no way I could get enough protein into my diet without overloading on calories. People in the beginning of times when they figured out how to cook meat became stronger and life expectancy increased the gatherers became hunters. It's important to have well-rounded healthy choices for the lifestyle you lead. I couldn't handle your way of eatingm you may not be able to handle mine. But it's no reason to try and make me feel bad about eating meat and tell me that it's not healthy for me.
If you invite them and know about it in advance you should accommodate them as best you can or if you are unsure what they can eat suggest they might like to bring a dish or two of their own so that they are sure they can eat it. I'm not suggesting to serve a Tofurkey rather than a turkey, but it wouldn't kill anyone not to have meat in their stuffing. As for shutting up and eating what they are served for the one day a year, its not that simple. When you don't eat meat or dairy for a year and then have it for one day it makes you really sick that would be like telling someone who has a gluten intolerance to wolf down a loaf of bread and get over it.
With some of the attitudes some of the people here have towards Vegans and Vegetarians, I am sure the people at your table are all your close relatives who cannot opt out of your invitation! Just eat what I feed you? Really? I serve insects. Is that ok with you? If not, why not? Why do you want to draw an artificial line at beef and pork. Why not cats and dogs?
Me like fried crickets and frijoles.
I believe that in any situation, if you are inviting someone over to your house for a dinner – or any other reason – you should be thinking of them, not yourself. Being the host means working towards the comfort of your guests. So if you invite a vegetarian over to your house at any time, how could it be anything other than rude to try to force them to eat meat?
None of us like it when vegetarians try to force us not to eat meat. We are only hypocritical if we turn around and do the same to them.
Well said!
Very well said!
Golf clap for Evil Grin!
Seal of approval!
I wonder how many vegetarians invite meat eaters over and make a meal with meat in it for them?
I was wondering the same thing. I'm allergic to certain vegetables and have a low tolerance for things like tofu, but I've never really had a vegetarian who took that into consideration. I wonder why.
I'm guessing that all people that eat meat also eat vegetables, grains, fruits, etc. You aren't being served anything you wouldn't eat anyway.
Regarding Likewise's comment, not all vegetarians eat tofu :)
In my house, I'm a veg, my husband's not. He takes care of the dishes featuring meat, I take care of the rest. We have the most fabulous dinner parties! This is how it works for us. We respect all guests and make sure they have a great time. Great music,great lighting, lively conversation and vino adds to our parties as well!
In high school I had a friend whose mother was a strict vegetarian for a combination of health reasons and personal beliefs, but she could make the most tender steaks. It was unbelievable. She never even tasted them, but every meat meal she made was amazing.
I know when I was vegitarian (for medical reasons) I would cook meat for my husband and friends. I do not know, however, that if you are vegitarian for compassionate or religious reasons if you will cook meat, nor would I expect someone who is vegitarian to cook meat for me because it is not their belief. Since I eat both meat and vegitables (now), it is not against my beliefs to cook a vegitable-only meal so I'm not really going out of my way to do so.
@Suzanne – you're missing the point completely.
I've yet to hear of someone having an ethical problem eating vegetables, but thanks for the snippy argument anyway. Personally, we're not vegetarian, but we eat meatless once a week for budget reasons. Hubby usually doesn't notice.
@Anie- because its a lifestlye, moral, and/or religious choice sometimes. If your coming to dinner at my place and want an animal based food then you are more than welcome to bring it. Just as I would bring a dish to your house. Veg based diets can be as strong as a religion to some, but you wouldn't make someone break their religious laws.
For years I used to make a turkey to go with all the vegetarian sides when I hosted Thanksgiving for friends for whom it wouldn't be a "real" Thanksgiving without a turkey (before I moved back to where it was convenient to join extended family instead). This is despite my being vegetarian.
And while I usually do cook veg meals for guests, I've cooked fish or chicken for guests on a special diet to accompany (or as an alternative to) the veg dishes.
Strangely, however, I've never had a non-vegetarian host outside my family or close friends willing to cook a veg entree for me. And surprisingly frequently I've been invited by hosts who know my dietary restrictions who literally have nothing I can eat at the dinner. Even more surprising is the number of times people who know I have a medically verified, life-threatening allergy to pork have invited me and then not had anything that didn't include pork products of some kind.
So, please, spare me the vegetarians are intolerant attitude. In my experience it is the meat eaters who seem to have this attitude far more often and are the ones who try to make me feel guilty for putting them to so much extra work... as they serve a full dinner to everyone else and make a huge issue out of how they couldn't put bacon or whatever they would normally put in the one or two sides they made out of an entire meal that I could eat (and which all together I end up with about a cup of food on my plate because they didn't bother to make enough for me to take a larger portion and all the meat eaters are eating the dish or two as well). Or even worse make a huge issue out of how difficult it was to cook for me and then had nothing at all that I could eat because they "didn't realize" that ham stock or lard would be a problem.
I am a vegetarian and my first husband ate meat. Only meat and would not touch a veggie if it was the last thing on earth. I cooked two dinners every night. I am very happily remarried. My husband when I first met him ate meat and dairy. He no longer eats meat and only on occasion he eats cheese. Still, I cook for him what he wants.
If I have a guest in my house I always ask them if they wish to have meat accompany their meal. Most of the time the answer is 'No, we love what you cook. Please just do your thing'. If they do wish to have something they can either bring it or I get a portion only the size of what they want and if there are leftovers they can take it home....
Um listen folks, my choice to not eat meat is a personal one. I'm not going to condemn you (especially on thanksgiving!) but don't force your turkey on me. Make some mashed potatoes and other veggies and I will happily eat whatever you have..no need to have an attitude.
agreed. i'm not sure what to think when someone (esp a family member) invites me over for dinner or something and yet doesn't make anything i can eat. i mean.. you invited me and you know what i eat. how's that supposed to make me feel? ehh oh well.
I don't really care what they eat as long as they don't come with the whole "I'm better because I don't eat meat" mentality.
Funny, that attitude is often assigned to vegetarians no matter what they say or don't say. I don't just assume you think you're better because you eat meat–I'd appreciate the same courtesy and often don't receive it.
I feel the same way and avoid talking about being vegitarian at all costs because the conversation always (against my will) has to become a debate about eating meat and my diet choices.
I agree. having only been vegetarian for a year. even when i just decline to eat meat (without even saying "i don't eat meat") people seem to instantly get all of these ideas about me, and i think even meaner than just asking me about it, choose to say nothing or to say "well sorry, we don't have anything for ya".
personally, i do it for my health. and the animals. and the environment. but, i almost never go beyond saying "no thank you" to explain things unless someone asks.
guess that's just how it is when you live in the lovely south, though... at least, i imagine vegetarians in big cities don't have these problems.
I know quite a few vegans and not one of them ever gets on their "soap box" to proclaim they are better than everyone. When I invite a group over for dinner and they are there I make sure to make 1 or 2 vegan things for them and every time they are incredibly appreciative and happy. Most time I have to make more of the vegan dishes as they are most popular. The "meat eaters" tend to like it as well
Usually when you think that someone thinks that they're better than you, it's because you think that they really are.
True. If I say I don't eat meat, and you say, "Oh you think you're better than I am," then *you're* the one who is making it into a value issue.
And here, just to give you some fodder, I'll go ahead and get righteous for a moment:
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL DEFENSE FOR EATING MEAT. THERE IS ONLY TRADITION AND CONVENIENCE BACKING UP YOUR DESIRE TO DO IT, AND DEEP DOWN, EVERY WESTERN MEAT-EATER KNOWS THIS. YOU'RE SCARED SH!TLESS BY VEGETARIANS NOT BECAUSE WE SAY WE HAVE THE HIGH GROUND BUT BECAUSE YOU *KNOW* WE DO, YET YOU LACK THE WILL POWER TO CHANGE.
Happy?
@Tallis,
I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOU. ABOUT YOUR OPINION THAT YOU HAVE SOME HIGHER GROUND. OR EVEN ABOUT YOUR CAPSLOCK BUTTON. I EAT MEAT ONLY BECAUSE I LIKE THE TASTE.
Not to say that there aren't jerks out there who think they are better than everyone else (but let's be fair and admit there are jerks with all manner of eating habits) , but often it's the meat eaters who let their own insecurity get the better of them and think that the personal choice to not eat meat is an inherent condemnation of everyone who doesn't make the same choice. Most meat-eaters don't have a problem with vegetarians/vegans. I eat meat – my boyfriend doesn't. I don't expect him to cook meat for me (even I think raw meat is gross) but I order it when we go out. I've had Thanksgiving dinners with his vegetarian family. It's fun to cook together and the food is delicious, even if it's not your "traditional" Thanksgiving spread. We've been together 5 years and it's never a problem.
On the other hand, I went out to a steakhouse with a friend a couple years back. I mentioned to her how nice it was that we could do things like that together, since I wouldn't ask my boyfriend to take me to a place where his only options are salad and a baked potato. Instead of taking it as I meant it, that it was nice to have "us" things that I don't do with others, her reply was "Well, why don't you just MAKE him eat meat?" Once I got over the initial ridiculous images that conjured, I realized that she was somehow threatened by my statement. He wasn't even there and his vegetarianism had offended her. Ironically enough, she is the pickiest eater on the face of the planet, believing that a ham sandwich is simply ham + bread. She doesn't try new things and complains if there isn't something to eat that she likes.
The conclusion: jerks are jerks. They aren't jerks because they're vegetarian or vegan or meat eaters. They just are.
To those obvious meat-eaters who commented so rudely all I can say is live and let live, eat and let eat. A little tolerance goes a long way; the handshake is stronger than the fist.
Thank you, Lucy, well said. I do not eat meat for compassionate reasons. But I don't push it on others, and my friends are always happy to have me over for dinner or come to my house or go out to eat with me. i don't push anything on anyone. I do always ask no veal and no lamb – no babies at all. And I have started a few of them on Meatless Monday. I don't hate on you because you eat meat, but I am more than happy to talk to you about the industry.
Agreed. I am a meat eater, and in fact I love all forms of meat, but that doesn't mean I have to chastise people who don't eat meat.
Mind you though, "Live and let live" is a two way street, and there's not much that goes up my rear-end more than a vegitarian or vegan chastising me for eating "a poor defenseless animal." (I've had that happen before, and in one case I actually left the dinner I was at)
I again say LOUDLY-"EAT ME"!
I couldn't possibly. I'd throw up.
Soylent Green is......................................people!
This is one day where any vegan with any manners should shut up and eat what they are served. Use the rest of the year for being up on your soapbox.
Does it offend you that much to have extra turkey for the meat-eaters? Why is this even an issue?
Jerks. For me it is religious not to eat meat. You idiots just think it is only your traditions and religion that matters. Isnt it good enough that vegetarians and vegans sit next to you fools while you eat crap. What if you had a food allergy and 10 people stood around you chomping on that particular food item.
You're a fool if you think choosing to be vegetarian is at all similar to having a food allergy.
I won't complain about others eating pork around me despite my serious allergy to it or about them eating meat despite my being a vegetarian. It might make me uncomfortable but I don't consider the dinner table the place to try to convert anyone as long as they respect my dietary restrictions/choices and don't make it an issue.
I do, however, need to know if I have to avoid a dish because it has some pork product in it or might have been contaminated (for example by the cook using the same spoon to stir different dishes) and I want to know if there are other hidden animal products that could conflict with my dietary choice. You'd be surprised at how many people find even the former a major imposition.
These days, I feel most comfortable bringing something to eat I've made myself unless the host is a close friend or family member that I trust to understand my dietary restrictions.
Ignorant much? There is a stomach disease where some people can not break down meat -at all-.
In addition to the stomach disease, if you haven't eaten animal protein for a significant amount of time, your body stops producing enzymes to break down the meat. Just throwing out your diet "just for one meal" doesn't work that way. You can get really sick. If you decide to switch back from vegan/vegetarian to omnivore, you have to do it slowly to re-train your body how to eat. It isn't as easy as just changing for the day.
Baloney. I was vegetarian and cook for twenty years and went straight to red-meat-based diet, and got instantly healthier. Don't believe all the myths going around.
@Jim~ I had the exact opposite experience. Was a veggie teenager, ate meat when I married and had all kinds of health issues for 10 years, now vegan for almost 8 years and now I can breath and enjoy life and the great outdoors again
I don't put meat in my mashed potatoes or roasted sweet potatoes, vegetable sides etc. I usually do use butter in everything, but I have a lactose intolerant guest coming, so I'm having to get creative :)
@Dux- there is a cruelty free, vegan butter called Earth Balance that tastes and operates exactly like butter. Everyone will be a bit healthier, and I guarantee you no one will know the difference!
@Jessica Thanks for the tip!!
Vegan "butter" does not exist any more than beef "lettuce". You mean margarine, so just say margarine.
I am glad you think it is an option. I am vegan for health reasons and dairy/meat is simply not an option. Think "its just one meal?" Well, you are mistaken.
Like Andy, I am also a Vegan for health reasons, as I am unable to digest meat and am lactose-intolerant. While I never expect anyone to accommodate my dietary restrictions and often bring my own food, I find the BEST cooks often see it as a welcome challenge to make something tasty – meat and dairy free – that everyone will enjoy!
If you can't digest meat or lactose, then from an evolutionary standpoint you should already be dead. Tough cookies for you I guess but that is the way it sometimes works.
The Masked Avenger
If you can't digest meat or lactose, then from an evolutionary standpoint you should already be dead. Tough cookies for you I guess but that is the way it sometimes works.
Seriously? You realize that 70% of the global population is lactose intolerant. This is because it is normal for mammals to stop consuming milk after infancy. Also, your claim that it is evolutionarily advantageous to be a meateater is false. True, the body does need some protein, but not nearly in the quantities that we eat today (also, complete proteins can be found from a variety of sources.) Also, as the animals that you eat must first eat the plants that vegetarians eat, it is actually more efficient (and thus evolutionarily advantageous) to maintain a primarily plant based diet.
A minor nitpick... Veganism is not just a diet, its a lifestyle that advocates avoiding using all animal products. If you really must abstain from consuming all animal products, then you might be on a vegan diet for health reasons, but you are not necessarily a vegan.
Also Scientist, while it is more efficient from a total system perspective to get most of your calories from plant based sources, it is not necessarily an evolutionary advantage. For one thing, without processing and cooking to some degree, it is very difficult for people to get enough calories from purely vegetable sources. Ounce for ounce, meat has usually has a lot more calories. Most herbivores spend most of their waking hours eating or finding their next food source. Fortunately we invented cooking which makes it a lot easier to obtain the calories we need, but that is a relatively late development in terms of human evolutionary history.
@ Truth – So if we had a national holiday with an associated custom of eating fried dog shi7, you should just shut up and eat it, right?
Thanksgiving, last I knew, wasn't just about stuffing our faces, but about giving thanks (ha!) for family, friends and our ability to enjoy them. I eat meat but I hate onions. I don't even have a moral opposition to onions, but I'll turn them down if offered. Do you get seriously offended when someone doesn't like the cranberry sauce? Or sweet potatoes? No. You don't. So someone doesn't eat meat. Respect their wishes and stop shoving bird down their throats.
Laura, you are freaking awesome.
Hehe...kudos to you! I absolutely love your style, Laura!
@Laura – awesome response. Love YOU!
well if it was tradition to eat fried dog dung, then i bet most people WOULDN'T have a problem with it. because...wait for it... it's TRADITION. just because it's "gross" now doesn't mean it it could be considered normal after hundreds of years of exposure. didn't the greeks use their hands to clean themselves after using the bathroom? what if TP was never invented, i'm sure using your hand would still be ok.
Two Girls, One Cup anyone?
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! 2 Girls, 1 Cup. Someting I will NOT be giving thanks to this year.
Actually Thanksgiving was sort of about stuffing their (the pilgrims) faces. They were thankful for having food and thankful for the Indians help…
Amen!
After 35+ years of being a vegetarian, I'm very wary of meat, and fell no compunction about inquiring about recipes if I'm in doubt. I don't want to find out on a feel-good holiday that my gut, which II suspect is no longer fully equipped to digest dead animals, will punish me for "being polite", and turn the evening into a gastric nightmare.
Really? I should increase my risk of cancer by 60% just to please you? No thanks. Of course, I wouldn't be friend with someone as closed-minded as you anyway, so it wouldn't be an issue.
Or maybe it's the one time of year when people who are hosting their friends and family could show some consideration and hospitality and take their guests' lives into consideration.
The people here aren't objecting to vegetarianism, they're objecting to having to put effort and thought and kindness into their actions. Unless, of course, "You'll eat what I serve you" is some charming Irish blessing.
Being a good host doesn't mean throwing down whatever reheated slop you hauled yourself off the couch to sneeze all over before you go all control freak on everyone at the table. It means actually caring about the comfort and ease of your guests.
Manners aren't for guests only—indeed, it's up to the host of any good get-together to be welcoming and accommodating.
It occurs to me that the original scenario that was described was not a lack of hospitality on the part of the hosts, but rather was built around the Aunt's hostility to the author's vegetarianism.
Few Thanksgiving feasts I have ever been too have been so oriented towards meat that it would have been impossible for a vegetarian to find something to eat (a vegan on the other hand might have had a harder time since it is a holiday where many forget their normal healthy eating habits and break out the butter and cream for vegetables and potatoes).
Now, if I did have special diet needs, of any sort, I would inform my prospective host of those needs and offer to bring appropriate fare to the dinner in a large enough quantity to share (Though please, please not tofu turkey.... be creative... say stuff a pumpkin or something). If I was hosting, I would decline such an offer unless I was not sure I could accommodate my guest's dietary needs adequately (And of course, then i would accommodate them). Both positions indicate politeness and hospitality. For the guest, it is, I feel, inappropriate to expect the host to make special accommodations. For the host, it is inappropriate to not make reasonable efforts to accommodate the guest's needs.
Of course if everyone is bringing a dish, then it is more appropriate for the host to expect the guest to accommodate their own needs ;).
Give me a break. If I choose not to eat meat and am personally repulsed by it, I should no more have to eat it than you should be expected to eat skunk if it was served to you. I am thankful for personal choice. I would hope that my host/hostess would have a dish I could eat or would be fine with me bringing a vegetarian dish to share, but if my dietary wishes were not accommodated, I would simply enjoy the company.
Sounds like you are the one on your soapbox. No one is asking you to be a vegetarian. Why are you forcing your ideals on vegetarians?
"It's just one meal" – right, so it shouldn't be such a big deal for you to make sure a few dishes are meat free. Seriously, I can't imagine being that hateful towards someone I've invited to share a meal with me.
It's bad manners unless someone abandons all of their principles and eats meat?? Why wouldn't it be considered bad manners to not accomodate someone with a dietary restriction? Would you expect someone with Celiac's to suck it up and eat wheat gluten? At my Thanksgiving, its not a problem- how hard is it to make veggies and casseroles without meat in it? Grow up.
How in the world is my quietly NOT eating meat "getting on a soapbox" and how in the world does it even BOTHER you? Why does what I DON'T eat even matter to anyone else but me – why in the world do others get so irritated at what I DON'T eat?? I just don't get it. Isn't having consideration for your guests part of good manners? Would you invite your Muslim and Jewish friends over and then serve a mostly pork-based dinner? Or serve an all-dairy meal to someone you know has lactose intolerance? Or a mostly wheat meal to someone with a severe gluten allergy? It is just kindness.
Hmmm....
Just because something is "traditional" does that mean that it's right for everyone? Would you expect someone from another culture to assimilate because they don't believe the same thing you believe?
I think it's interesting that meat-eaters think that we vegans can just give up our beliefs and principles for one day so as to not incovenience anyone.
I am a vegan and don't get up on my soapbox to be so. It's my choice and my choice only. What I can't figure out, though, is why meat-eaters get so offended when they find out a person is vegan. Can anyone explain that to me?
My assumption is that they feel as though I'm judging them for their choice of being a meat-eater. Or do they think that I think I'm better than them because of this notion that vegans are stuck-up self-righteous freaks?
I'm really not sure what it is but next time someone tells you that they're a vegan, please don't jump to conclusions. Ask questions if you want or just accept that we do't eat meat and move-on. It's really very simple.
"Gimme back my Bullet",I got some Vegans to shoot at near the county line!
You should be roasted and carved at a table full of turkeys on Thanksgiving.
You're no better than the ones you threaten. Try to be the better man next time, dropping down to his level does you no good.
Actually this year I'm roasting up Rick Sanchez cuz my ho's like dat spicy mexican-cuban thang. True Dat.
Chances are if you are inviting someone to you house, you know what they will and won't eat before. So they are not a meat eater, big friggin deal! Make a dish or two that is meatless, and if they offer to bring something, great! That's one less thing I'd have to cook and stress over. An extra bottle or 2 of wine doesn't hurt either.
I have a bowlful of Chinchilla food ready for them every year. MMmmmMMMmmm! I wonder if Vegans existed back in colonial times. If they did, I wonder if they would rather have starved than eaten something that can sustain them, like a turkey.
I don't think vegans existed back in colonial times...because the ethical treatment of animals in meat factories wasn't an issue back then. Please try to be educated before commenting. I am vegetarian because I don't believe in promoting the suffering of animals so that I can eat a more enjoyable meal. I don't expect you to adopt my choices, and a host shouldn't expect me to adopt his/her choices. It's not that hard to accommodate dietary differences at a meal.
Ben Franklin was a vegetarian.
of course there were vegetarians! remember that there were plenty of religious people that didn't eat meat for millinia before it became a choice for those of us made a choice. and dont forget that during the depression and so forth – many couldn't afford meat, so they lived on what they could get. so many on BOTH sides get all uppity about it – frankly, no one is forcing anyone to adopt the other's ideas and if you you ARE – shame on you. if you can't do something nice for someone who is coming to your house, then dont invite them in the first place! a good friend or loved one, no matter what side of the fence you are on, will always make the one on the other side welcome. and if you don't – then you have totally missed the point of thanksgiving; giving thanks for having each other – meat-eater or vegetarian.
@Kim J – I think Jdizzle is trying to make a funny. He did an excellent job and probably eats vegetarians like you for breakfast. We love you Jdizzle.
@Kim J.
Vegans Did Spawn from Colonial Times
Technically, the word "vegan" was not coined until the mid-20th century, but the ideology was there long before. Meat was expensive in the colonial days and was considered as luxury. As time went on and meat became less expensive, people began to eat more of it. But, there was opposition to gluttony. For instance, there were health reformists during the Second Great Awakening known for an ideology called 'transcendentalism.' The Fruitlands society of the early to mid-1800's lived as transcendentalists, they did not eat any meat or 'under-the-ground' vegetables. They only ate plants and vegetables that grew toward the sun. They also did not wear any clothing from animals, that includes wool. They also boycotted the use of cotton because they did not support slavery. Therefore, their clothes were mostly made of plant fibers like flax (linen). Around the same time of the Fruitlands society, Sylvester Graham, an American nutritionist, published the Graham Diet which was an early guideline to healthy vegetarian eating. The Graham diet excluded all meats and consisted mostly of "fresh fruits, vegetables, whole wheat, and high fiber foods." It allowed in moderation, milk, cheese, and eggs. Since these movements took place long before the perversion of the U.S. food and dairy industries, their influencing factors were different from modern day vegetarians and vegans. The transcendentalists and nutritionists of the Second Great Awakening believed in religious and spiritual purity. Where as, most vegetarians and vegans today follow the guidelines for 1) healthy eating practices to combat obesity 2) to boycott the perversion of food over-production and consumption and 3) looking past the stereotypes placed on farm animals (that farm animals are dirty and stupid). They are actually quite awesome. Please, educate yourself before having opinions about the matter. Research it, read articles, talk to people.
like all 2-sided debates (politics?) it seems the extreme end of either side overshadow the real true middle of the issue. I see the all-meat-or-nothing going at the all-meat-is-evil. and it makes it hard to discuss the issue. I'm willing to bet that most non-meat eaters wouldn't mind turkey and such being served so long as options are available for them. and i'm willing to bet that most hosts will make some accomidations. i don't think a new menu has to be considered, but offering to all guests is very nice. and i would expect that the vegans would offer a real turkey (or at least portions of one) for their non-vegan friends. this could be one of those free-range-medicine-free type turkeys or whatever, but i don't think they'd change their entire meal either.
so really, if you have parties, give thanks that we live in a society that has the ability to quibble over meatless thanksgiving. be considerate of your guests, and guests be considerate of your host.
None of posts are serious. And if they sound like it, it's just an opinion I'm sharing. I have no problems with Vegans, I could just never be one. BORING!!
Back in colonial days the turkeys weren't raised on a farm, pumped full of hormones or crammed into cages. I'm sure that's why a lot of people have a problem eating them today. They were wild and hunted and eaten for sustenance. Some people still do that today. I also didn't realize people made so many of their Thanksgiving dishes with meat. The only thing with meat at our family's house is the turkey. So I get plenty to eat with the mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, green bean casserole, rolls and pumpkin pie...yummy!
So much for the ignorant....Plato, President Lincoln, and many others were vegetarians. This is not some new trend that all of a sudden people are doing in order to spite the meat eater. So really I highly doubt people in the colonial days starved.
Jdizzle, you crack me up – not only are you funny, you are diplomatic. You're welcome at my house this year or rather the in-laws that is. You'd have plenty, and I mean PLENTY of comedic material to work with.
Word. Only if I can wear a lampshade as a hat.
To KimJ, while I was out slopping the hogs this morning, they asked me to thank you for sticking up for their rights......
Good for you, NIckel. The funny thing to me, reading all these comments, is that a bunch of rabid meat-eaters are ranting on about how VEGETARIANS should get off their soapboxes. Excuse me? Who's on their offensive preachy soap boxes here? Meat eaters. I AM a meat eater , although I eat only local, sustainably-raised meat, and I happily would invite vegans or vegetarians to my Thanksgiving table and make sure they had plenty of options for delicious things to eat. It's SO DUMB to think that eating a big fat over-fed antibiotic-laden Butterball turkey is "tradition." Yeesh. Idiots abound.
I've been invited to the vegeratian's home for a Thanksgiving meal – I shut up and ate what was there. Didn't even come to my mind to say – I'm bringing a turkey with me because I wanna eat meat! The author is clearly biased against meat – there are plenty of vegetarian dishes for thanksgiving that are already a part of a traditional meal.
Thank you for your reasonable and sensible comment.
In response to Katie's response: There can be many traditional (or at least well accepted at a meat eaters table) dishes at Thanksgiving that are vegetarian friendly. You would think It would be a non-issue.
However, I've also been in the situation the poll writer described where a host who invited me knowing I'm a vegetarian literally had meat in every dish other than the cranberry sauce.
When I used to host Thanksgiving for friends (before I moved back to where it was convenient to eat with my extended family), I used to cook a turkey for those for whom it wouldn't be Thanksgiving without the bird. That tradition started because the first year I was going to make a totally veg meal but one of the meat eaters asked if she could bring a turkey... turned out I was the only one who actually knew how to cook one so guess who ended up getting up at 6 am to prepare the bird that the guest had dropped off still frozen. After that I decided to just get the fresh bird myself so I could plan the timing better.
I personally don't think it is too much to expect that a meat eating host would leave the bacon/sausage/lard/whatever out of at least a few of the side dishes... but I've learned that meat eaters tend to consider that an extreme imposition so I always bring several sides I prepared myself.
Most memorable Thanksgiving, actually, was the year that the only person who ate most of the beautifully prepared and obviously time consuming dishes the hostess made was the hostess. I'm actually allergic to pork (as in medically verified, life-threatening allergy that has ended up with me in the hospital when somebody "forgot" that they had used ham stock and assured me something was safe) so I have to ask hosts if there is pork in dishes or risk spoiling the dinner by dying on them.... and it turned out the only dish at that Thanksgiving without pork or lard was the cranberry sauce (even the Turkey had been stuffed with a dressing made out of pork sausage). Since I asked in hearing of the other guests it ended up being extremely awkward since none of them ate pork for religious reasons... something (in addition to my allergy) the hostess already knew. Luckily, I had brought a couple veg sides (that the hostess had scolded me for bringing) so people had something to eat other than cranberry sauce and slices of turkey.
I can see both sides being a little rabid to be honest.
Ahhhh...reminds me of a vegetarian Thanksgiving comic: http://lolalollipop.com/111-no-more-thanksgiving/
If you don't eat meat, that is your problem not mine. Deal with it.
Well aren't you just lovely?
WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT?? If one chooses not to eat meat-it's their choice–NOT ANYONE ELSE'S!
Why the intolerance? People eat what they like-no one has to eat turkey. It's being with family, and loving one another that makes Thanksgiving. And there are always lots of veggies and other meatless things to eat. Let people be themselves!
I don't have a problem with people who don't eat meat. The craziest and most hypocritical are the ones who attract the most attention, unfortunately. For example, if they love all animals so much, why would some of them wish for humans who eat meat to die or feed their cats a vegan diet knowing that cats are carnivores?
Whenever I watch movies where people sacrafice living things, whether it be animals or humans, I'm always kind of irked and I think to myself, wow, people really did this?? You people that eat meat are doing the same thing – why do you feel like you have to sacrafice a turkey on Thanksgiving? haha, you people are so primeval and you don't even know it!!!
You won't convince anyone to change by mocking them.
What in the world? Am I the only person who serves creamed onions, turnips, mashed potatoes, corn bread, cranberry relish and sometimes brussels sprouts or squash? REALLY? Aren't those vegetables??? I agree with Caroline – Bring a couple bottles of wine, enjoy the sides, and if you need protein put a slice of cheese on your apple pie. If this is the biggest problem Americans are faced with this Thanksgiving then we are doing pretty well! Put your minds to world peace for crying out loud.
And yours was the most sane response yet...here, here!
It isn't, for most of us, a question of eating around the turkey. That is fine and not a problem... I'd never criticize a host for serving meat and really prefer it if no comment is made concerning my dietary choices. The dinner table is the last place I'd want to try to convert somebody and I'd rather it not become an issue.
The problem, however, is when a host asks you to dinner knowing you are a vegetarian but then literally serves nothing that doesn't contain meat of some sort or other. This hasn't just happened to me at Thanksgiving (though as I posted up above someplace it has happened then) but also at other dinners. After decades of being a vegetarian (in addition to having a medically verified allergy to pork that almost killed me when a host "forgot" that ham stock had been used for a dish despite knowing of my allergy and my having specifically asked if pork was in anything), I've learned to either bring something I cooked myself, decline invitations or eat before going unless I'm eating at the home of a close friend or family that I trust completely on dietary issues.
I agree. My sister and her family have been vegetarians and now vegans for years. They always came to the holiday dinners, often with friends and I just made sure I had lots of veggie sides and cooked the stuffing out of the turkey. Now for health reasons, we are eating the same way. I still cook a turkey for the rest of the family and continue with lots of very yummy side dishes. Everyone is happy and we eat really well. It is the family that counts.
I am vegetarian not because I am militant. That is the way I have always been and I cannot eat food that has come in contact with meat. it is similar to asking someone who eats meat as to whether they will eat a rat or cockroach. Same principle. So typically I dont go to a meat eaters house for Thanksgiving and instead make our own TG meal without the meat.
bump
My problem with vegetarians isn't that they made a choice (I dabble in vegetarianism myself), it's that their choice is now the center of the meal. I don't understand why at the table when dishes are passed around a vegetarian has to comment on every dish that they must pass on. "Oh, this has meat in it and I don't eat meat." Yeah, I know, just pass it to the next person and wait for the veggie dishes. When the brussel sprouts come my way, I just keep the dish moving right along. No need for me to announce my choice to the whole room.
JB, are you sure they aren't asking if it has meat in it? When dishes are passed, if it's suspect, I always ASK to find out if I can eat it.
I've only met one vegetarian in my life who has done that and even I ignored them.
I never make a comment unless I need to ask if there is dairy in it. Like the person who has the pork allergies, I have been hospitalized for dairy allergies and I don't really think that getting sick is worth keeping quiet. I would rather ask the question...
What concerns me (not in regards to your post but the comments of a lot of people here) are the amount of people who have forgotten what Thanksgiving is about. For us it doesn't center around food at all, it's the fact that we still have each other to enjoy, talk to, and be around. Lots of hugs, lots of jokes, and a lot of phone calls with those that are are other states or can't be around...
Here Here! Why are people so hostile towards a veg lifestyle? I don't impose it on anyone and all I ask is that you don't force your choices on me. The holidays can be realy uncomfortable. Not because of the food, but the anger others seem to feel towards my food choices. Veg is the closest thing to a religion that I have. You wouldn't try to trick a Jew into eating ham or lie to someone who follows Hinduism. Why vegetarians and vegans?
I laughed when I saw the 'passive-aggressive' part of the post, and it's totally true. Being a 'strict' vegetarian myself (meaning, my idea of making something vegetarian doesn't mean picking the meat out of a dish) there's all kinds of things that we can do, and it's usually in this order. Almost like a timeline.
Go to Thanksgiving but bring something we can cook up and eat.
Boycott Thanksgiving altogether (Not only saves us from being stared at, but it stops us from looking at your dinner in total disgust) and finally...
Take matters into your OWN hands, and host the non-thanksgiving, thanksgiving dinner yourself. Invite people, and if they want turkey, tell them... We love you and we love the Pilgrims, but if you want THAT for dinner... Wrong place. Wrong table.
This year out of a possible four family members that travel to (rather than host for) Thanksgiving, we have all four coming. Two are coming from 2 hours away, and oddly enough, are driving right past three other perfectly good thanksgiving dinners on their way to ours. Seems that as though our wacky little non-holiday holiday has not only taken root, it's taken shape as the place to be.
We'll be having a full course meal, all homemade, all of it hand made, all of it being vegetarian. Seems you don't need a few pounds of cooked and decomposing flesh sitting on your table to call it Thanksgiving, you just need good food, great wine and fabulous company.
Sure. Sitting down at a vegetarian Thanksgiving might sound pretty crappy, but try it! You'll soon realize it's not the meal that makes it Thanksgiving, it's the people around the meal that do.
all very wonderful, but, why call it a 'non-thanksgiving' and a 'non-holiday'?