 5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe. So – you thought we forgot alllll about Thanksgiving today, didn’t you? Nope. Sorry. Ain't gonna happen. And this time, we're getting scientists involved. Harold McGee is the New York Times columnist and author behind the culinary creed, On Food & Cooking: The Science & Lore of the Kitchen. McGee has been named one of Time magazine's 100 Most Influential People, Bon Appétit's Writer of the Year and to James Beard Foundation's "Who's Who in American Food." Let’s just say he’s got more food science knowledge than you can shake a meat thermometer at. And just in time for the November release of his new book, Keys to Good Cooking - McGee has dropped by to bust some common folklore about that Turkey Day spread. Five Myths About Thanksgiving Dinner: Harold McGee Fact: Brining gives you a moister turkey, but the pan juices are too salty for making a good gravy - and the bird itself can be too salty for some tastes. To get a good turkey without brine, take the bird out of the refrigerator a couple of hours ahead to warm up, but put ice packs on the breast to keep it cold. That way the delicate breast will heat up slower than the tougher legs. Then during the roasting, check the doneness early and often to avoid overcooking. 2. Myth: You can make a wonderful stuffed turkey by cooking it in a very low oven overnight Fact: Very low cooking temperatures and long cooking times are friendly to bacteria and can produce a toxic turkey. For the best results, cook stuffing separately and roast the bird at temperatures above 300 degrees. 3. Myth: To get a perfectly cooked turkey, follow a chart that gives you the cooking time according to the weight of your turkey Fact: No chart can predict exactly how long it will take to cook a large roast, because there are many more variables than the weight. Use the chart as a general guide, but there's no substitute for checking the doneness yourself with a good digital thermometer. 4. Myth: To make a turkey safe to eat, you have to cook it until the breast meat is 170 degrees and dry Fact: Breast meat at an inner temperature of 150 to 160 degrees is much moister and safe. Leg meat is tougher, and better at 160 to 170 degrees. 5. Myth: It's fine to put the leftovers away at the very end of the evening, just before staggering off to bed Fact: Harmful microbes can survive cooking and at warm room temperatures can double their numbers several times an hour. Refrigerate leftovers as soon as the main meal is over, especially any meats, meat or cream sauces and starchy vegetables. Is there another Thanksgiving myth you'd like debunked? Let us know in the comments and we'll do our darndest to help you out. Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down. |
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Can't we all just get along?
If you can choke your chicken, can you throttle your turkey?
No,but I can spank that monkey!
One may also slap the salami.
Something's missing from this 5@5 blog. Oh, I know what it is:
I'd hit it.
I have never read comments before but this morning was very entertaining. Everything from all the mis-spelling to incorrect "quotes". I guess I'm like all the rest of you......nothing better to do than hang around the computer trying to be smart. And getting hungry for turkey, dressing and gravy.
I just cooked a turkey breast the other night, delicious. Reminded of the great feast that is about to come. I can't wait.
There are as many comments on this turkey as the election. I actually cook stuffing inside and outside the bird. Stuffing is only good if it is crunchy. Then you have guests who like the opposite – soft stuffing. I also use the slice bacon on the outside for a moist bird. It works.
We make a secret recipe oyster dressing that is like a spoon full of heaven on earth. Only the grandmas know the recipe although since I am the grocery shopper I bet I could make it some day. As for regular dressing we have two schools of though. One is the dry school the other is the moist school. The same for mac and cheese which there are three schools on Thanksgiving at our table. School 1 is the cheddar school with sea shell mac, school 2 is the Velveeta school with elbow mac, and school 3 is an inlaw who insists on the Kraft box mac with the powder cheese. The kids like option 3 and us adults mix 1 and 2. I personally prefer cheddar and mac but making it at home I learned its how you ruin a glass dish. I also make it for backpacking trips and used to pack in wax wrapped cheddar. But i learned that Velveeta has an unlimited shelf life so I pack it instead because you can clean the billy can with water.
For backpacking meals, I'm considered the Wolfgang Puck of the trail. My curry beef noodles are to die for.
For school 4 try penne pasta with a combination of white cheddar, Gruyere and smoked Gouda. Dice a small sweet onion and some ham to add to it. Save about 1/2 cup or more small cubes of the smoked Gouda to throw in at the end and just start melting.
As shown in my name, i dont cook a lot of birds, but when i was in culinary arts college we would make the best turkey by cranking the heat up to 500 degrees or more for 30-45 minutes before you turn the heat down to a more reasonable level for the remaining time. This seals in the juices and ensures a nice color on the outside and the cook time is cut in half if done properly.
I season my turkey with herbs, salt & pepper and stuff with aromatics the night before. I lift the skin and rub crushed herbs and olive oil on the breast. I roast it covered and then uncover the last hour or so. My test for doneness is to check the joint between the thigh and drumstick. If it moves freely and the juices are clear, the turkey is done. Using a covered roaster or a foil tent keeps the breast moist.
I make dressing so I don't have concerns about bacteria. This is the way my mother taught me and I've been cooking Thanksgiving dinner since I was 13...35 years and never an illness or a dry bird.
i wouldnt recommend salting the bird until you are ready to roast it. Salting it overnight can extract moisture from the bird leaving you a turkey wallet.
my RA in college made us a pre-Thanksgiving meal (with turkey!) and he is an amazing cook! this one's from him:
cover the turkey with a few slices of bacon while it cooks. Keeps the bird from drying out and gives the skin an extra dash of flavor, not to mention another tasty treat after it comes out of the oven.
Bird-a-palooza? The one I made was pre-done, all I had to do was cook it. It was greasy and did not have enough "oomph" = it needed spice/seasoning/something. The turkey was ok, but there was pork sausage in the stuffing, and that, combined with fat that cooked into the other birds from the duck–greasy. Wouldn't buy it again.
I live in a cold climate, and if it's cold enough I can leave the de-stuffed, mostly picked clean turkey carcass in the roasting pan in the garage....with plans to pull the last bits off, and make stock from the bones.
I forgot the last part last thanksgiving, and found the roasting pan in the summer with the bones mostly....well, decayed would be a nice word. It looked like something you'd see on CSI.
Needless to say, I threw the whole mess out, including the pan.
Please debunk the cooking breast side down myth!
Noboy has mentioned the ultimate in stuffed turkeys...the tur-duck-en. Turkey stuffed with duck stuffed with chicken stuffed with cornbread dressing. Any opinions on this bird-a-palooza?
By the time the center is cooked and safe, everything else is overcooked. Ad what a waste of a duck breast which should be cooked to only 130 max.
Read this article about turducken http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/chicken_turkey_duck/turducken.html
really? calm down people – freak out about relatives, not what others are saying to do w a turkey
Another thing that really cracks me up; organic food freaks. 60 years ago as a teen I asked my father, who was a graduate agronomist/bacteriologist, why more people didn't recognize the dangers of chemical fertilizers, insecticides, fungicides etc. He was very serious when he answered that it was true that in 20 to 30 years a few thousand, maybe even a few hundred thousand people would die of cancer or other food additive poisoning. After a long pause he said, "but if we don't use them a few hundred million people will starve next year." I never questioned his wisdom again.
Thanksgiving Wish
One wish that I have for Thanksgiving
Is that we let these poor birds keep living.
A massive turkey killing spree
Is not "thanks", it's insanity.
By taking their lives, we grow numb
To just how thankless we've become.
A family feast for some, I know.
But one less chance to learn, to grow.
One wish that I have for this season
Is that ignorance cedes way to reason.
If giving thanks means some must die,
Then I'd rather go hungry than live a lie.
Mohan Embar
Animal Rights Counterculture
They say you're not supposed to eat raw cookie dough too, but the benefits far surpass the risks :P
His first myth regarding brining is very misleading. I think brining a bird especially using a brine mixture will allspice, berries, and dried fruits gives a turkey a flavor and moisture you cannot get any other way. But why he thinks someone would be dumb enough to use the brine to make a gravy is beyond me. Anyone that really thought to do that deserves a salty bird, since they should not have been in the kitchen in the first place.
My Mother in law used to stuff her turkey the afternoon or night before and did so for over 50 years, and no one ever got sick. I've done it too, although I will admit I haven't done that in years. I guess we're all lucky to have survived the "Good old days!" LOL
There is nothing better than a turkey who's alive. There is plenty of delicious food you can enjoy.
Have anyone of you ever spend time with turkeys that are alive????? I have.
They are really cute animals full of spank and attitude. Love them!
Stop this madness of consuming corpses.
But they are sooo tasty. But I do agree with you on our love for turkey ... freshly killed turkey is so much yummier.
Never been spanked by a cute turkey with an attitude before.
LOL, missed the typo at first. Was wondering what the heck you were talking about for a minute.
Your a naughty boy, Now get back to work!
One typo isn't that bad I think, especially since English isn't my first language. :)
Here is how it is: We don't tell you how to eat, so don't tell us. Eating other animals is not madness....it is nature. Even if all humans stopped eating animals, the animals would still be eating each other. It is pure nature. The animals are gonna get eaten one way or another, it is the way nature works. By the way, humans have evolved from being vegetarian to being carnivores, the proof is in how our teeth have changed, so if you think preaching is going to reverse evolution, you have a long, long wait.
Roast the turkey upside down. Its not as pretty, but the breast stays moist from being in the juices all the time. No more dry turkey.
I would suggest cooking the turkey inside-out for the first 1hour and a half. After that then glaze it with cranberry jelly and butter - return it to it's normal shape and continue with the normal cook time minus a 1/2 hour. This will ensure a moist and delightful meal.
I feel compelling to call bunk on #2. I cook my turkeys in my smoker at 225 degrees, which takes up to 10 hours for a large bird to hit an internal temp of 160. How on earth is cooking something in a 225 degree enviroment for many hours, with a goal of a 160 degree internal temp to kill bacteria (per #4 above), 'friendly to bacteria'? That is a contradiction unto itself. The water in the water pan maintains a rolling boil throughout the process for Pete's sake!
BTW, if you've never had or smoked a turkey you are missing out. The most tender, juiciest bird you will have ever sunk your teeth into!
The FDA Food Code recommends that professionals in food service operations cook poultry to 165° and hold for 15 seconds in order to destroy 99.9% of pathogenic bacteria. This is called Pasteurization and is recommended because of the high probability that Salmonella organisms are present on poultry. State laws require it and therefore cooking to less than this time/temp constitutes a violation of public health law in every state that I know. If poultry is undercooked for public sale it should have an accompanying printed warning to the consumer. For non-professional home cooking, the USDA recommends cooking poultry to 170° for 15 seconds, a revision of the old recommendation of 180°, which does indeed, overcook. This higher recommended temperature is made in an attempt to over-ride the many variable conditions in a home cooking environment which might lessen adherence food safety guidelines, such as uneven heating in ovens, uncalibrated thermometers, and improper thermometer placement in the food.
Obama is a Muslim. How can there be any doubt? Oh ... sorry wrong message board.
Are you saying we should "stuff" him into the anal cavity of our Holiday Bird?
That is the most vile and disturbing comment. So, of course that is what we should do.
WTF does this have to do with Thanksgiving???
Never ever removed stuffing from the bird's cavity. Never ever had food poisoning. But the best turkey is prepared for astronauts in germ-free kitchens & packed into vacuum-sealed containers and shot into space. Eat this and Live Forever!
For over ten years my dad and I have been injecting birds with various marinades and frying them in peanut oil. Very quick, three minutes a pound. Soooo juicy, crispy skin, tasty. Oblviously, you must have an outside area to do this safely.
It is NOT the tryptophan in turkey that makes you sleepy after a big meal. It's because of the parasympathetic nervous system reponse to eating a large meal. There are many different foods that contain tryptophan, but not enough of it to make you sleepy. Eggs, for example, have about four times the amount of tryptophan when compared to turkey.
enough already... go straight to the pumpkin pie Please..
No whipped cream on mine, thanks. And I'll have some banana pudding.
If you fry your turkey, should you stand near a cauldron of hot grease after consuming a 12-pack? Does it matter if it's a light beer?
It is a myth that on this holiday we commemorate the first thanksgiving by re-enacting what the British pilgrims did on the East Coast in 1621. The real first Thanksgiving took place on April 30, 1598 when Don Juan de Onate entered what is now New Mexico.
Another illegal alien sneaking across our Border!
That was quite the astute response for the win there, Dead Eye. \O/
I don't know why you are so obsessed with pan drippings for gravy. Brine the bird, but butterfly it first . Roast spine plus neck plus gibbets for making gracy. Easy peasy and far superior to your suggestion.
Hey Bevky, cleopatra put an orange in there also., hallowed out that is for birth control.........
Warning! Turkey will kill you. Food will kill you. Bacteria is everywhere. Do not eat, do not breathe. There's bacteria in the air. No one knows how the human race survived thousands of years. Scientists are investigating from inside their plastic bubbles. Exposure to plastic will eventually kill them as well.
Exactly!
How about avoiding the abuse and carelessness and not eat turkey?
Brining can be done without making everything too salty. A good brine is not a sprinkle of water and load of salt as most people think. Not only can you get the moisture up, you can add flavor as well simply by adding different spices and/or rubs to the brine solution. Yes it's a little more effort but I've had turkeys cooked with and without brining and the brined turkey has always been better.
Myth #6: You have to slaughter a bird in order to be "thankful."
the best part is chopping off the head....they flop around the yard...good fun!
Flop around the yard? They probably would, but anyone who has ever slaughtered fowl knows to tie their feet first and hang them up to drain.
OK, so I am a meat lover. And I long ago decided that if I were going to pay someone else to do my killing, I should at least participate once or twice. And so I did, and while I found the entire affair unpleasant, I now know that I can do it, if necessary, and harbor no buried guilt over my hiring of paid assassins. I found poultry to be the easiest, by the way. I've done both chickens & turkeys. When one thinks about it, the cost of life is taking life, whether it be animal or vegetable. So own up to it & get on with it.
True. Cooking unslaughterd birds is the way to go. Just crank the TV to drown out the turkey screams coming from the kitchen.
that or remove stuffing about 3/4 through and bake in seperate pan to complete/ensure its warm enough to kill off nasties.
I always stuff the bird. To make your turkey and stuffing safely, stuff the bird and then put it right into the oven. Don't let the stuffed bird sit around and definitely don't stuff it the night before and leave it sitting in the fridge until the next day. As others have mentioned, you remove the stuffing as soon as the bird comes out of the oven. And you don't take the turkey out of the oven until the stuffing reaches a certain temperature. It's all about the safe handling of the products. Any time you are using raw poultry you can have a bacterial problem so keeping everything very clean on Thanksgiving is very important. The one reason I'd never put the turkey in the oven overnight is that it seems like a fire hazard and should you have something greasy cooking in the oven while everyone is asleep?
Simply put: cook the bird upside down so the dark meat juices go into the breast. Don't stuff with anything, and don't baste. Keep the oven door closed for the entire time, except when checking the temperature.
Best bird you'll have.
Basting does not make for a moist bird. What basting does do is keep the surface layers of meat cooler through evaporation, allowing deeper layers to catch up with "doneness". Baste early & often, stop basting during the last hour for a more crispy skin.
my stuffing- store bought bread crumb/bag and do it in a pan with butter and chicken broth (get low sodium)
When its "dont in the pan, steal some drippings from the turkey pan- will add flavor and give you pretty muche the same as roasitng it in the bird
Visit http://www.therecipesource.net for some fantastic Thanksgiving/holiday cooking recipes!
I use stuffing made with white bread, celery, onion, margarine (not butter! Butter burns at too low of a heat) and spices. It is the simplest stuffing in the world and absolutely scrumptious, especially in the bird. The margarine prevents the bread from drying out the turkey (though I think this is a myth anyway) and provides a good heat conductor inside the turkey to make sure it is cooked faster and more thoroughly.
I do usually like to use free range turkeys from a local farm, but I have done this with pre-frozen grocery store turkeys too. I also use a cheesecloth soaked in butter and wine draped over the breast. I come out with a perfectly browned, perfectly moist, perfectly cooked to safe temperatures (inside and out!) turkey every single time. It's no-fail and completely safe. You don't have to avoid stuffing the turkey to make sure it's safe. If the stuffing reaches 170 it is completely safe. End of story. My stuffing does, and not at a rate that dries out the breast. Once the thickest part of the thigh is 160, I take the turkey out and let it rest (where it continues cooking, btw) for about 20 minutes before slicing. That provides reabsorption of juices, thus again ensuring moist turkey.
I get raves every year about my turkey, and it's just a few simple tricks that do it.
I'm not sure why you insist on using only margerine in the stuffing, because it burns at a higher temperature.....but put butter and wine (with cheesecloth no less?) on the breast. Do you want the breast to burn?
I LOVE cooking for Thanksgiving. Turkey prep is simple, wash the bird really well in cool water, massaging as you go. Next take oil and massage that into the bird as well, coat the inside. Wrap the wings and drumsticks in aluminum foil and then wrap the entire bird. Place in roaster. Use the 20min/lb as a guide and about an hour before that time is up, open up the aluminum foil so the turkey can brown. Baste every 10 minutes or so when the foil is opened. Use a thermometer to check that the bird is fully cooked. :) Moist every single time. Dad swears by the brine, I don't use it.
Can stuffing be left in the turkey to refrigerate or should it be removed and placed in a seperate bowl? For that matter should stuffing be cooked in the turkey or seperately?
remove from turkey- seperate. the reason being the cool-down times are extended.
Eating Turkey will make you sleepy. – Only if you are male. Women go off and clean up, men take a nap.
oh yes you dit-id!
It is a myth that gravy made with cornstarch gets lumpy. It is so simple...dissolve it in cold broth or water at a rate of 1 Tbsp. per cup of broth and slowly wisk into your turkey broth. Your hot broth will thicken quickly so you might not need all the cornstarch mix. If you do get lumps just put it through a strainer. Make your turkey stock ahead by simmering some cheap turkey legs (with celery, carrot, onion, garlic, peppercorns if you wish but NO SALT) in water for a couple of hours. Chill, scrape off fat and freeze. So many less calories than making a roux. And yes, you can add pan drippings if you wish. Freeze your leftover turkey pieces in gravy.
Although corn starch is a very pure starch and used as you say will not make a lumpy gravy, it will make the gravy look glassy, which may be unappetizing to some. It is great for teriyaki type sauces because you expect that glassy look. For turkey or chicken gravy, use either a blond roux (50/50) or flour dissolved in cold water. Granted, you are more likely to get a few lumps if you are not careful (strain water/ flour mixture through a sieve before thickening to solve this).
Haven't heard anyone say anything about fresh versus frozen turkeys. I've heard that you should always brine a fresh turkey, but you don't have to brine a frozen one. Any thoughts?
well- your "fresh" ones wont have that "10% solution added for flavor" (basically a brine the company injects)
so, yes brining a fresh bird may be needed- I like to brine them either way to get MY seasonings in the bird.
If you get a "solution added" bird, you should not have to brine...unless you want to change flavor.
All you need is tin foil...cook for half the time under foil and the remaining time uncovered. Forget everything above and do this for perfectly moist meat...I'm a chef :)
As far as stuffing a turkey is concerned, there is truth to both it making better tasting dressing and it also being a somewhat dangerous affair. As with many situations, a reasonable solution can be found in the middle. Simply "unstuff" the bird halfway through the cooking time and roast it with the rest of the uncooked dressing that wouldn't fit. That way, you get the great bird taste in the dressing and the insides of the bird can cook and provide a safe meal for everyone. Just use common sense, folks.
I agree!
I don't eat slaughtered birds. I say let them enjoy Thanksgiving. This is a pagan ritual. Go vegetarian. And no I don't wear leather.
Ann you are better than me for not eating animals. I especially love the religious types that insist that animals are creations of the Lord and must not be touched. Please, after man fell into sin God gave humans the right to deep fry Bambi. And that's just fine.
I have never in my 52 years heard of any of these.....must be from the city.
oh. my. god.
Who ARE you people?
Smiley, I was sitting here thinking the SAME thing....it must be a Wisconsin thing!! Up here in Green Bay, these folks would starve to death!
Reading this blog, I've had a good laugh at best! There's one thing that not one person touched upon, so I'll ask; after the meal and one is putting the turkey in the frig, should one cut the meat from the bones first? I read somewhere that this is the practice to adopt. I always put left-overs in the frig at least within 1-2 hours after the meal which is a safe practice don't you think? No matter how one cooks and stuffs the turkey is their preference. My preference is if interested, cook the turkey breast side up in a 325 degree oven for the time allotted by weight of your turkey. I prepare the stuffing separate, put it in the oven with a few added juices from the Turkey's roasting pan drippings (not the fat) and this works fine while the Turkey rests for at least 30 minutes. So what if the turkey's dry sometimes, put gravy on it and you'll not noice the difference. At least I haven't had any complaints from my family, even when I have overcooked it. Just be thankful you are fortunate enough to have a feastful Thanksgiving dinner!
You can pour gravy on sawdust and it will taste good. If you can't cook a turkey, don't waste our time posting here. Do you eat Thanksgiving dinner with a straw? Which mobile home is your house parked at so I can avoid it?
This is just plain mean-spirited. Who made you judge? Cooking is like any other aesthetic: to each his own. Here's the bottom line: cook it any way you want as long as it is safe. Enjoy it with family and/or friends, all the while remembering to be thankful that you & they are still around to enjoy each other's company. That makes the meal taste way better, no matter how it is cooked. Enjoy your sawdust, alone, on Turkey Day.
You have to love a holiday devoted to the consumption of animal fats. Our family turkey was always done the same way. Couple days before I lay out a loaf of white bread on a tray to dry out. Stuffing is the torn up bread, onions, celery, poultry seasoning and a couple pounds of quality bulk pork sausage. Fry up the sausage to about 80% done first. Mix all together. Moisten with chicken stock. I stuff the bird and make a separate dish of stuffing. Baste with butter. I almost always put the bird away before going to bed or at least by the next morning. Always buy the biggest bird. You get more meat per bone. Plus it is super cheap. Sliced turkey for a couple of days. Turkey ala king. What's left goes into turkey vegetable noodle soup. Usually make at least 2 gallons. Real secret to the turkey... the family has been using the same metal roasting pan with white speckled enamel since at least 1948. No one has died of food poisoning yet. It's my last Thanksgiving since I'm terminal. But it won't be the bird that kills me. At least I'll go before science discovers something else I love is bad for me. That is all bunk anyway. Why don't they study important stuff like proving that lack of cholesterol causes global warming?
All that fight about "flesh" reminded me of Seinfeld ("The Sniffing Accountant")
Elaine: Well, I was just curious why you didn't use an exclamation point?
Jake: What are you talking about?
Elaine: See, right here you wrote "Myra had the baby", but you didn't use an exclamation point.
Jake: So?
Elaine: So, it's nothing. Forget it, forget it, I just find it curious.
Jake: What's so curious about it?
Elaine: Well, I mean if one of your close friends had a baby and I left you a message about it, I would use an exclamation point.
Jake: Well, maybe I don't use my exclamation points as haphazardly as you do.
Elaine: You don't think that someone having a baby warrants an exclamation point.
Jake: Hey, I just chalked down the message. I didn't know I was required to capture the mood of each caller.
Elaine: I just thought you would be a little more excited about a friend of mine having a baby.
Jake: Ok, I'm excited. I just don't happen to like exclamation points.
Elaine: Well, you know Jake, you should learn to use them. Like the way I'm talking right now, I would put an exclamation points at the end of all these sentences! On this one! And on that one!
Jake: Well, you can put one on this one: I'm leaving!
Your myth number one is absurd.
Cut down on the amount of salt in your brine...DOH!
Myth number two is also absurd.
Before you cook it at a low temperature, you broil it at 450 degrees then turn down the heat. By the way, 300 degrees is a low temperature.
Your problem with myth number three, is that you don't tell people that the turkey will continue to cook after you take it out of the oven.
Your myth number four is really confusing.
Didn't you just tell everyone that a turkey at a low temperature creates bacteria?
Which one is it?
Your number five myth is the worst of all.
NEVER! NEVER immediately put a hot turkey or meal in the refrigerator...all cooks in restaurants know this.
If you wanna create an environment for bacteria, there is nothing worse than letting a meal slowly go from hot to cool in a few minutes.
Always let your meal cool down to the touch of your hand, then put it in the refrigerator.
FINALLY....
WHERE DO YOU COME UP WITH THIS NONSENSE?
Speaking of nonsense, what does this really mean?: "slowly go from hot to cool in a few minutes." How exactly do you go "slowly" from hot to cold in only a "few minutes". You are in the deep end child. Stop trying to sound intelligent.
People, don't forget it is "Thanksgiving-to God-Day". Give thanks to God, none other. He gave us everything good.
My mother cooked the damn turkey. I'll thank her, thank you very much.
Go Jeebus!
Ah – there flies the first volley in the 2010 Dire Predictions Of Death And Disease Due To The Improper Preparation Of Holiday Fowl Campaigns! How sweet the sound! And as an added bonus from the Peanut Gallery – a practice run to warm us up for the Interminable Nit-Picky Bickering we all enjoy when we're obliged to sit for a feast with Loved Ones!
And here's me fretting about what we'd all do now that the elections are over.
*vbg*
I think turkey is so easy to cook and looks so terribly impressive. I never really understand how people can mess it up. The only sick anyone in my family anyone's ever got from a holiday turkey is the kind where someone eats too much and needs an Alka Seltzer.
I learned to cook turkey from Julia Childs cookbook (and my Mother), stuffing in the bird.
Accidents can always happen of course, but a little common sense, attentiveness, and perhaps a quick check of cooking instructions ought to assure ones Healthy survival till New Years at least.
And If you're eating something cooked by a known Kitchen Twit, just remember that a nice big lap napkin is a Good Thing.
I buy generic turkey's, because the store bought turkey's have chemicals in it to make them grow fatter. Generic turkey have no chemicals. that's why you fall a sleep after eating store bought chemical turkeys. No myth!
Where do you buy your generic turkeys? Not from a store I hope. WTF are you talking about?
Another politically correct list of things we should be afraid of. I thought he was going to talk about Thanksgiving, not about our phobic society. Does this guy actually cook?
Have you never heard of Harold McGee? He has forgotten more about cooking than you will ever know.
I roast a nonbrined turkey a week or so before Thanksgiving and save the drippings and make stock which I freeze. THEN I can brine my turkey for Thanksgiving Day. Also, I have a high-end convection oven which cooks a 13 pound turkey in 2 hours or so. For a large crowd, I roast 2 12-pounders side by side in the convection oven in the same time it takes to roast one.
If it isn't a kosher turkey forget it. Cook the kosher bird at 325 until it is about 160+ in the middle of the breast. A miracle. Don't season before hand, and don't put in stuffing. Wrap in aluminum foil when removed from oven (to continue cooking). Abondanza! If you get a Yiddish accent, you have done it right.
Well if I've learned anything by reading this it is this: there is no correct way to cook a turkey, no correct brand, no perfect stuffing or gravy and no right use of quotes when describing the edible parts of the bird. Guess I'll just cook it the same old way and hope it's moist, safe and tasty. Happy Thanksgiving all!
What? Because you are a vegan you are special? You can call the turkey "death bodies?" What? And you know for a fact that the only thing that was FOR SURE on the pilgrims table was deer? How do you know that??? Wow! You are brilliant...sorry about the midterm election loss, vegan.
It shouldn't be hard for you to find a political forum to troll around on.....now shoo.
Plus, can you not figure out the whole "reply" button thing? Good attempt at acting superior.
RabiaDiluvio, did she cook it in a "D Bag"? I understand your dilemma, I mean, he hated turkey!!! That would be like hating ambrosia salad!!! What is a girl to do? You did it though...you mashed up the real sweet potatoes and whipped up some real stuffing!!! You are the modern Betty Crocker!!! You go girl...
I was expecting the myth about whether turkey was traditionally eaten at Thanksgiving. :) Guess I was wrong.
So did the pilgrims eat turkey?
"What did the Pilgrims eat at their Thanksgiving festival? They didn't have corn on the cob, apples, pears, potatoes or even cranberries. No one knows if they had turkey, although they were used to eating turkey. The only food we know they had for sure was deer."
I'm going to enjoy a very nice vegan Thanksgiving. No death corpses on my holiday table. Who can enjoy a nice evening with death bodies lying around??????
I can. I especially love the "death bodies" juice over my potatoes.
Me
well it's either the turkey or my mother. Which dead body would you prefer?
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
Fact: the Wampanoag & the Pilgrims both ate plenty of turkey. Turkey is native to North America and was a popular fare in those days. Still, although historical documents listing the Pilgrim menu mention "wild fowl" we don't know if it was turkey or not. Could have been duck or goose, which were also hunted and eaten long before the Pilgrims arrived.
Fact: most eastern Native American societies were agrarian, not nomadic hunters as were the plains tribes. Corn had made its way up from Mexico via trade routes and was widely cultivated in the area before the Pilgrims came. There is no evidence, however, that potatoes made their way up from the Andes yet, though. So corn, no potatoes, but there were other popular root veggies. Arrowhead, for one, grew in the same habitat as the native cranberry.
Fact: Cranberries are also native to that region and were gathered and dried by indigenous peoples. Often used in dishes to add tartness, the sweet sauce we are familiar with is a European invention. Important source of vitamin C during the long winters.
Fact: pumpkins & squashes were already cultivated, too. There would have been plenty of those. But no pies. The main argument was no crust ingredients, which simply ain't true. There were plenty of things that were used as flours (such as cattail pollen). The problem was sugar. It was very expensive at that time and the Pilgrims certainly had none.
No apples. They were introduced from Europe much later, and did not exist on American soil at the time. There were plenty of wild grapes, though, most tart but some sweet. And wild blueberries. Don't forget those. They loved growing in sandy coastal soils and were prevalent, gathered and dried as were cranberries.
Quit saying Fact.
I love meat as much as the next girl, but I can't stand turkey. I think you have to grow up on it to appreciate it; that's the only thing I can think of that would make turkey appealing to anyone – I had my first turkey meal when I migrated to the US, and have hated it ever since.
it really depends on how it was roasted or prepared. My husband hated turkey for years and now loves it and wouldn't let me make anything else for Thanksgiving or Xmas if I tried. The difference: his mother used to get really bad smoked turkeys and would heat them in some sort of plastic bag thing. Nasty. To make matters worse, she would serve canned sweet potatoes and stove top stuffing.
My husband and kids hated turkey until we had a deep-fried one in New Orleans. Been doing that at home ever since.
Have you ever tried to cook it in a "D Bag"??? It comes out so moist and yummy!!!
So, you're a physicist who repairs refrigerators? Riiiight...
And maybe you should have done some research about the author of this article before you opened your Maytag-loving mouth.
oops – wrong place.
Myth (and one of the worst I have ever heard): you have to wash a turkey in bleachy water before roasting.
A good rinse, and maybe a light scrubbing with the hand is good enough. If a bird is thoroughly cooked at the proper temperature, you should have no worries. Soaking in bleach is disgusting and I can't imagine what it does to the flavor. Blecch.
That is another myth by the way. First of all I have never heard the bleach idea but it seems clearly wrong. The OTHER myth is about washing poultry at all. The reason why is; you can't wash off salmonella and washing a bird only manages to spread poultry "juices' around your kitchen more (the sink area where dishes end up). I know it is a common practice, but you will not wash the bacteria out of the bird. Best to get the freshest, best handled poultry available and cook it to proper temps.
Dave I wash the bird to get rid of some of the fecal comtamination. Having worked for a food microbiologist, I agree that people are too paranoid about salmonella, but there is definitely something to be said for washing to get rid of surface contamination. It works and it is not a myth.
Good point. I actually do was birds out of habit. I had heard about not being able to wash bacteria away and it seemed like sound advice. Thanks for providing a legit reason to do this.
"wash"
Just fry the bird and get the best tasting turkey ever!
ahhh good old harold mcgee, quite possibly the best authority on anything culinary. good to see him on eatocracy.
I thought this article was about Thanksgiving meal myths? What about the myth that there's a chemical in turkey meat that makes a person sleepy. This causes everyone to want to take a nap after over eating, and not blame over eating. True or false?
I figured that myth would be number one
It's normally just the three of us, so I cook us each a game hen for Thanksgiving, and it's delightful.
I would trust anything Harold McGee says. On Food and Cooking is one of the best books anyone in the culinary field, or serious foodie at home should read. You gain more comprehension about what really is happening during the cooking process. I worked as a chef for 18 years. I often bought copies of this great book to give to younger chefs who really had a love for their chosen trade. I also cook several turkeys per year. OK, my 2 cents. When I cook a turkey, I almost always debone it. It takes about an hour but removing the bones will go a long way to not having a dry turkey (the bomes will suck the moisture right out of the bird while cooking). Separate the dark from the light meat. Light meat cooks much faster and, unless you turn a whole bird over, is closer to the heat, so it finishes even faster. At this point, you can stuff the breast and then tie it back together as a bundle with butchers twine. Stuff the leg/thigh and tie it off as well. The dark meat will go in the oven first and then the breast. Remove the twine and slice. The down side is you don't get the traditional look of thanksgiving with these bundles. An alternate method, although more time consuming, is to debone the turkey in one piece. Start by slicing down the backbone and carefully filleting the meat away from the skeleton keeping the turkey meat in one piece. Leave the bones in the drumsticks and wings only. When you are done deboning, stuff the turkey and lace it back together down the back. When you flip it over it pretty much has the traditional whole turkey look, just a little lower profile. Carving is a breeze and your turkey will be much moister (if you carefully monitor the progress with a meat thermometer). All of these steps are in addition to having seasoned the inside and outside of the meat before lacing back up. A lot of work, worth the effort. A bonus is, you know have the raw skeleton of the turkey to make a stock that will make the best gravy you have ever had.
nobody cares Dave...
I care, Dave.
that sounds like it would make a fantastic bird but really most people would never go through that much effort-the great thing about a turkey is throwing it in the oven and leaving it while you prep and cook the 700 other dishes for the feast. And it is very difficult to debone or butcher meat unless you have a lot of practice, training, and especially the right tools.
If you cook, you have a knife. If you love to cook, you have lots of sharp knives! Practice on chickens!
mmm...i'm getting so Latvia right now
sorry, i posted on the wrong arcticle...oops
i gotta cousin named Lativa
I know, she blew me. Right after your dad did.
I made my first Thanksgiving dinner 43 years ago. My Mom sent me a recipe from either Ladies Home Journal or Good Housekeeping called "the Bride Serves Golden Roast Turkey". It tastes exactly like my Mom and Grandmother's turkeys....moist and fantastic! I wouldn't dare change a thing including stuffing the bird with fresh bread cubes mixed with sauteed onions and celery. We are a family that won't change a thing about our Thanksgiving dinners. We have all survived and enjoyed for many, many year! And yes, my parents who are 93 and 85 will be with us. The greatest praise.....it tastes just like Mom's (Nana's)!
for a great turkey, just get a copy of Joy of Cooking and follow its directions for turkey. No changes, no thinking you know "better", just do it. and you'll suceed. And no chance of massive 3rd degree burns or burning your house down. The rest of the meal can come from the same cookbook and no need for any weirdness from the Food Network, Cooking Channel, etc.
A great book for all classic recipes. You can trust the directions and find nearly anything you have ever wanted to try.
How about not eat a turkey? I think it's funny that the most people want tips on how to prepare a meal that's so delicious we never ever eat it any other time.
Speak for yourself! When I was growing up, we had roast turkey 4 or 5 times a year–not the whole big spread, but at least the turkey, stuffing, potatoes and gravy. Now that I have my own home and family, I still try cook a turkey at least twice a year.
BTW, I am in the "Roast it Breast-side DOWN until the last 20 to 30 minutes" group of cooks.
it IS delicious, but most women don't feel like cooking a huge feast starting at 5 am every day. So we save it for holidays. Wow I must be a brain surgeon to have figured that out.
Why is it WOMEN have to get up at 5:00 AM? My father was and is the one to get up early and stuff the turkey and put it in the oven, right before he goes deer hunting.
I roast a turkey almost once a month. A good quality bird, even though more expensive than your generic butterball, is still a bargain when the per pound cost for a highly nutritious meat is considered. And the left overs go a long way, too, especially if wrapped & frozen.
Frankly, I can only stand roasted turkey once a year. I have never been a bit fan of dead turkey.
But to each his (her) own I always say. If you like the taste of turkey, have it as many times as you like. :)
I like to lick mine all over and then i stick my strong hand into its hiney hole and then i like to hump it and get all those jiblets!
Really? You sound fun. Have you ever imagined what it would be like for the "first time"? And does mommy know you are on her computer?
fried them, very tender and moist, easy n fast.
What do you think about turning the turkey upside down. That is breast down. This seems to result in a moister breast.
It's easier just to buy a kosher turkey, in the kashering process they use salt so it saves you having to brine it. I am quite fanatical about storing leftovers promptly etc. these days but in my youth no one knew any of these rules and we all survived somehow (with maybe a few stomach aches).
What about all the growth hormones in the turkey and they way the turkeys are butchered and raised in a most cruel and inhumane way??
Yum! Cruel Turkey is my favorite kind. So large & moist in all it's hormone goodness. And a side of veal to cleanse the palate before my after-diner coffee...made with beans grown & harvested by $1.00 per day exploited workers. Yes, this is the life.
If you object to the hormones in the turkey, then buy an organic turkey, but all of these techniques have helped make food much more affordable for most people. (Not that they don't need to regulate it a bit, but still.)
I don't object to the eeebil hormones people always harp about, but it does bother me a little that they now breed turkeys that are so large in the breast that they fall over all the time.
I knew this girl in college just like that. Man, I miss her.
I like to "stuff" the turkey and give it my special glaze.
Hand pulled nut gravy is the best.
Hello Harold
I have been soaking my frozen 12-14lb turkeys in ice cold, saturated brine water using a stainless steel 24 qt stock pot placed in a cooler from the night before since 1985 and have not had one person state the turkey was salty. Some, still adding salt to the meat. The drippings from the bird placed in a pan for making gravy after first toasting my flour in the pan for the rue, still in need of a pinch of salt.
Second, I would never cook or consider a complete turkey dinner without stuffing the bird with dressing. That I always let the stuffing absorb the flavors of the turkey as the two cook together. With stuffing placed in two locations, front and back. Hence why it is called "stuffing".
If you are not able to cook a stuffed 12-14 lb turkey to within 10 minutes each time, then you must be a very sloppy cook, or not weighing the fully stuffed bird to determine cooking time (place stuffed bird in stock pot, weigh on floor scale). That or your kitchen oven has to be of very low quality, beyond any normal appliance for at least the past 50 years. As a side note, I use to be an authorized service person for Thermador, Wolf, Dacor, Magic Chef, Gaggenau, Kitchen Aid and can service just about any oven.
This comment "Refrigerate leftovers as soon as the main meal is over" is a potentially reckless suggestion as placing warm meat and high water content items such as gravy, with high heat capacity, in a refrigerator while still warm or hot is potentially troublesome. For most refrigerator, in households that cook such large and complete, multi course meals are generally full appliances.
Like above, I also use to repair Sub Zero, Nordic, and other refrigerators, can judge freezer temperature by squeezing ice cream, and even the best units will let delicate foods in close proximity or placed above warm foods to spoil. Especially if there are any cold cuts, pate, thawed shrimp, crab, uncooked poultry resting in liquid and or ground meats nearby to name just a few.
What I have drawn from your article is that your reasoning and solution process is not very analytical and to keep you out of my kitchen and or laboratories. Myself, being a physicist today, wonder what is your CV that qualifies you to refer yourself a "scientist" as most PhDs today are still not qualified to do anything.
You are a dork.
Right on.
Paul is right on not TJ.
Mr.McGraw, I agree. The health department frowns upon putting warm foods in the fridge.
You are an absolute tool you geek......I'm sure you were right on the money with temperature when you "squeezed the ice cream". The last time I checked a physicist usually has a PhD – so in your comment about PhD's, you are actually putting yourself down.
P.S. – it's perfectly safe to put warm food in the fridge – it typically only lowers the temp by one or two degrees, and simply leads to more energy use by the fridge. It's much more dangerous to let food cool on the countertop.
I think you need to polish up on your physics, but then again PhD's are not "qualified to do anything" right?
The worst thing you can do for food storage is allow food to fluctuate in temperature. Let hot food get to room temp before putting in fridge or flash cool. Use ice water to col food quickly. But if you will be in and out of the fridge let food set til you are done and the fridge will be shut tight.
Family and Food what else could you possible need? Happy Thanks Giving
Hey, he's a refrigerator mechanic, he knows everything.
You are awesome! Thank you for REAL suggestions.
So, you're a physicist who repairs refrigerators? Riiiight...
And maybe you should have done some research about the author of this article before you opened your Maytag-loving mouth.
Liar: you think scientists can't have had other jobs? You live in a strange little world. Do lollipop flowers grow next to the money trees?
I believe in a true stuffing also. It flavors the meat well and the drippings form the bird flavor the stuffing. It just isn't the same without.
Well how much salt would a frozen bird in icy water absorb? Also, by the time a meal is over, the food is usually room temperature at best, not even warm, and certainly not hot. He said not to let it wait around until right before staggering off to bed. And in order to get the stuffing up to temperature to kill bacteria, when it is within the bird, you end up overcooking the bird. Your post mostly sounds misguided to me
Instead of pulling out the bathroom scales you might look on the package it comes in and see where it has already been weighed for you on the price tag put on by the store. Turkeys are usually sold by the pound and that includes the ounces which bathroom scales rarely provide unless you spent a helluva lotta money for it.
Between 41 and 140 degrees F is called the Danger Zone in food service – great name I know. This is the range where bacteria will multiply, and it's suggested that food spend no more than two hours in this range before it is cooled or reheated. So after the main meal is probably a wise suggestion, although it depends on how long you take to eat it.
I'd say biology would be a more applicable field of study for this discussion anyway, but what do I know.
You sound like you speak from experience, and I won't argue with that. I'm not sure the author was suggesting refrigerating the food while it's still warm, but no doubt, meat should not be a room temperature for more than an hour, two at the most before refgrigerating. Bacteria growth starts quickly and progresses fast.
Chris says; "I'm sure you were right on the money with temperature when you "squeezed the ice cream"".
Typically, I could judge the temperature of freezer to less than10 degrees F, by mentor to within 5. A proper freezer will be very close -20 degrees F, with the ice cream being rock hard. It use to be common practice for a seasoned repairperson to squeeze the ice cream first to rule out any possibilities with the cooling system.
Chris says; "so in your comment about PhD's, you are actually putting yourself down"
A PhD title in general is no indication of a person's overall level of technical competence as most PhDs awarded today are for non analytical fields. Even then, many I have meet in academia can't make anything work, reflecting natural aptitude, still incomplete in their practical education, lacking well developed skills sets for apply such knowledge.
Chris says, "it's perfectly safe to put warm food in the fridge – it typically only lowers the temp by one or two degrees"
When left unqualified, your comment is miss leading. Yes the overall internal, average temperature of the refrigerator may only change by a few degrees, a function of additional humidity, heat capacity of the food, location, ... , but none the less there are local deviation (delta T), some that can reach as high as 30 degrees lasting for an extended period of time. Especially in a unit hampered with poor air circulation due to full capacity.
sockpuppet says, "stuffing up to temperature to kill bacteria, when it is within the bird, you end up overcooking the bird"
The temperature needed to kill bacteria in freshly made stuffing, composed of only hot broth, cooked vegetables, herbs and mixed in with toasted bread cubes, is the same as that required for the turkey. Also, stuffing being higher in starting temperature and moisture content than muscle tissue, conducts heat more efficiently, to a higher temperature and faster than parts internal to the turkey. Hence why it is important to respect hot stuffing as one can get a steam burn from stuffing when cutting into a hot turkey. It's also why a turkey can still be uncooked near the thigh/hip area, yet have the stuffing be fully cooked.
Becky E. says, "you might look on the package it comes in and see where it has already been weighed"
That will not tell you the total weight of the turkey with stuffing. A mixed stuffing can easily add 1.5-3 lbs to the gross weight, varying by ~2 pounds, altering the total cooking time. A cheap floor scale makes for a quick and simple solution.
McGraw – I think you need to squeeze your head – not the ice cream – to see if it's the correct temperature.
I always heard the best way to cook a turkey was deep frying. Is this true? It was ok to cook frozen?
never...EVER!!!! put a frozen bird in hot oil!!! you will make a turkey bomb. dont bother with that frying nonsense. all u need is a weber, some kingsford, and afew wood chips,indirect heat, kick back, you cant overcook it. when that fire is out, your bird is done. its great. never again in the oven. the back yard smells like the holiday
Everything is better cooked on the Weber!
Beer boi,
You can go to some government sites and even you-tube to watch turkey fryer accidents. They are not pretty.
I found that loosening the skin over the breasts, and then sliding a few strips of thick cut bacon underneath (2 per breast does well) will give you the juiciest turkey ever without basting. I was only 25 when I first tried it and I impressed my own grandmother! Just make sure the strips are flattened out along the breast.
Cheers all!
I like to stuff my turkey with sausage. Bacon wrapped sausage. Then I wrap the whole thing in bacon. Sometimes I get chest pains. I like the skin too, but only if it's wrapped in bacon. White meat is for sissies. What's Tofu? Oooo...McRib is back – WooHoo!
Homer, you're kind of a jerk, aren't you?
Maybe I am Pam, but you know me – I like My beer cold, my TV loud, and my Turkey wrapped in Bacon!
Oooo...Puffy tailed dog. Here boy! Hey! Get off my leg! Doh!
Slipping bacon just under the skin is an interesting suggestion, we might try that this year. Thanks
Myth: Tryptophan in the turkey is the reason people get sleepy after Thanksgiving Dinner. Fact: there's no more tryptophan is turkey than any other kind of meat or protein source. The reason Thanksgiving Dinner makes you sleepy is that YOU JUST ATE A HUGE MEAL. Your body is too busy digesting the onslaught of food to worry about other things, like staying awake.
Thank you! That myth has been around forever and my students don't believe me when I tell them it's not true.
Not mention wine or beer and football, lol. Sure to put anyone down early!
NFL games alone are enough to put me to sleep these days.
Yeah, people tend to overeat on occasions like Thanksgiving.
I always thought it was the drunk in-laws, arguing, crying and sudden, awkward confessions that made me tired. Maybe the morphine too.
And slamming your head into the table over and over doesn't help either.
That is one of the funniest things I have ever read. I laughed for five minutes.
yep- if i recall, its the body proccessing the massive amounts of protien and starches that does it.
I'm not a fan of brined turkey. I always stuff mine and use a reynolds brand cooking bag for cooking the turkey. Turns out perfect every time!
Any tips on deep frying a turkey... aside from using a thawed turkey to prevent any unwanted explosions of course . =)
Jeremy the best tip is to make sure it is completely thawed. Don't laugh but sometimes people have to hear these things.
For safety sake put the turkey in the empty pot and fill with water to the desired level remove the turkey and mark the water level so that you will know how much oil to put in. After filling with oil to that level and heating it up, you may find that you need to dip some out. It does expand. This tip will prevent most of the fires that occur.
Other than that peanut oil is best (expensive) heated to 360 degrees and about 3 to 5 minutes per pound. Cook to an internal temp of about 165 degrees, remove from oil and let rest about 30 minutes (preferably in a paper grocery bag) It will climb to 170 or above.
You could also try some of the injection kits that are out there. I know there's a mesquite flavor. We had a garlic-butter something-or-other once that was pretty good. It might be better to skip the flavored ones for Thanksgiving.
And don't set up the deep fryer just inside the garage door, like my neighbor down the street. Volunteer firefighters like to enjoy the holiday with their families too!
I think it is best not to have to thaw it. For years I made a turkey that was OK. Then I started buying fresh never frozen turkeys and now everyone thinks my turkey is tha bomb diggity.
frying a turkey is great, but don't spend money on all those injection kits. Try an injection of equal parts apple and white grape juice. Moist meat, awesome flavor and when you pair that with a spicy rub (under the skin) you get a sweet-heat kind of flavor that is just perfect in my opinion.
Jeremy, Only buy fresh turkey. Do not get a frozen/thawed bird as water is retained. A good tip to know how much oil to use is to fill the pot with water, then put the bird in to see where the displacement line is (and never too close to the top). Be sure to dry the bird thoroughly. The longest part of the whole process is getting the oil up to 375.
We have an old piece of plywood under the cooker with sand on it. Keep the fire extinguisher handy. Do not cook inside any structure and someone must be present while it is on at all times. We do it just outside the garage so the guys can be inside near the beer fridge yet close enough to keep an eye on things.
Do order Cajun injection kit from the cajuninjector.com. The butter garlic is my favorite. Careful when you inject the bird. You must penetrate deeply then inject slowly while pulling out. Otherwise you will be covered with the marinade. Use the cajun rub on the outside as this produces a great crispy skin.
Be sure the oil is at the right temperature! Cooking time is about 4 minutes per pound so a 15 pound bird cooks in an hour. We cook two birds. While one is resting, we add a little more oil bring the temp back up and its in the pot while we're slicing the first one. Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving.
PS. Get a good apron as you will ruin your coat or clothes. There is no getting around it!
If you want homemade gravey buy some turkey wings separately and make ahead of time.
@Jeremy, first the bad news: from both experience and science, I can tell you that deep frying leads to very dry turkeys (see, for example, http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/11/how-to-fry-a-turkey-and-is-the-whole-thing-a.html). The good news is that the problem isn't without any recourse. To somewhat compensate for the drying effect of the frying, I'd strongly recommend brining first, to the point at which I wouldn't even consider deep frying without brining the turkey. Your second line of defense will be gravy—and make sure that there is plenty of it. This is what you'll need to get moisture back into the bird once it's on the table. I second the pleas for protection against your clothes and your house. It can be quite violent!
How about you just not eat a turkey...
...and eat tofu instead. Nothing says American tradition like a brick of tofu!
I agree. Steak for Thanksgiving!
Yeah, I plan to eat veal-stuffed bunny.
Mmmm..... Veal stuffed bunny, my favorite. Don't forget to wrap it in bacon though!
... How do you not eat turkey? OM NOM NOM NOM
Mmmm...Bacon wrapped turkey
I think the article is a bit critical of brining as a method for turkey prepping, and while I agree the gravy can be salty, the bird is really good cooked this way.
Had a great Thanksgiving dinner at The Keg one year.
The way that I get the turkey breast moist is to cook the turkey upside down in a Reynolds oven bag, then all the juice from the dark meat soaks into the breasts. If you buy a turkey with a pop-up timer, you will not be able to see it.
Oven bags rule! Never cooked a good turkey/roast/ham until I discovered them
For the first time in 28 years I am NOT cooking a turkey. My daughter wants to do Thanksgiving at her house. I am SO afraid my son in law will smoke the turkey in his smoker. He doesn't know how to use it correctly and never does it right and we end up eating charcoal. I always buy a Butterball, it ALWAYS turns out wonderful, moist and juicy. I don't brine, rub, bag or anything, just butter and a little foil. AND, I stuff it too. No one has EVER gotten sick.
Got a chuckle from the eating charcoal remark. lol
Someone has to step up and tell him...
MCC-
Roast a butterball at home and bring it to your son's house...everyone will thank you for your thoughtfulness when he messes up the smoker!
Everyone except your son and daughter-in-law...
Okay Marie.
I know how to use my smoker. Stay home and eat your pale sickly butterball.
I'm pretty sure that was my father-in-law though... ha
smoker temperatures don't get hot enough to make charcoal out of anything. They do make a nice jerky, though, which is what happened to me when I tried, against recommendations of MANY people, to smoke a turkey breast for Thanksgiving. It tasted good, but was incredibly tough and rubbery. (and Yes, I am talking about smoking, not barbecue or indirect grilling).
I smoke a lot of meats, and I wouldn't smoke a whole turkey. I suspect the long cooking times needed for smoking would be a lot of work even if you got it to work out right with a water tray and didn't dry it out. Smoked turkey legs are great, though, esp if you rack some sausages above them!
For a smoked whole turkey, I use a large webber kettle grill with a rotisserie, and put charcoal and wood to the sides and a drippings pan directly beneath. Not really smoked, but a lot of smoke flavor and very moist. This also leaves the oven free for making all the side dishes and pies!
you don't even need a rotisserie to do this, but I have weber smoked/grilled a turkey and it was great. The only thing I would add is not to use mesquite wood chips as it is way too strong for poultry. And I personally only like this for summer eating-I like my Thanksgiving bird more traditional
MCC, Thanksgiving is about being together and being thankful for what you have. Be thankful that your son-inlaw likes you enough to try to do a turkey for you all and that you actually have a turkey to eat. Also be thankful that your son-in-law is with his family and not in some God-forsaken place like Iraq, Afghanistan, or Haiti. Do not bring a turkey that you cooked. That would be offensive to him and you may hurt whatever relationship you have with him.
Stuff herbs just under the skin of the turkey (rosemary or sage), and cook breast-side down until the last 20 minutes (to brown the skin). The juices from the fatty back and thighs run down into the breast meat. I cook my chickens and cornish hens this way, they always come out perfect!
My team can't win when they play on Thanksgiving.
If you're a Cowboys or Lions fan, your team can't win on days that end with "y".
Oh damn, there's those quotes again ...
How about the myth that you have to keep basting your turkey. If you want a delicious crispy skin, don't baste it!
Unless you're a master baster! Who wants to come over and watch me master baste?
Well played sir, well played!
I, too, am a master baster. The trick is to quit basting near the end so the skin will get crispy.
...and I think I'll pass on watching you, bro. Have fun, though!
if you quit master-basting it near the end doesn't that ruin it for you?
Tent the turkey for all except the last 90 minutes....keep the thing moist. Take the top off and baste baste baste. Last 30 minutes do not baste it and the skin will crisp up nicely. Also, I take the stuffing out of the bird, place it in a baking dish uncovered and put it back in the oven for 30 more minutes while the bird cools. The turkey comes out juicy and brown, and the stuffing comes out browned, crispy on top and, the extra cooking time outside the bird could not hurt for any potential surviving cooties. Works every time.
Christine O'Donnell does not approve.
Baste away, please, because the evaporation cools the surface of the meat where it tends to be over done & dry. Basting is especially critical if you are stuffing in the bird because by the time the stuffing reaches a safe temperature, the outer areas of the bird are definitely overdone if you don't. Feel free to stop basting for the last hour for crispy skin if you wish, but basting is for evening out temperature while roasting; it does not make met more juicy!
Decent tips. I brine, but I make the gravy separately with roasted turkey wings a day or two earlier to avoid saltiness in the gravy.
my wife has been making her stuffing from scratch for over 40 yrs. never got sick, always taste great. so if it works, stay with the same avenue right. happy day.
The best way to cook a turkey is to drive directly to your son's house for dinner where your daughter-in-law cooks it. LOL
The best way to cook a turkey is to call up Popeye's and pre-order a deep fried turkey. They don't advertise it, but we have been doing it since my cousin told us about it when he lived in New Orleans in the 80's. We live outside D.C. Moist and flavorful.
deep frying just looks like way too much trouble and dangerous, the oil costs more than the bird. it might taste good, but roasting on the weber with indirect heat, a few wood chips, man, you wont want gravy. also rotisserie, easy and great
Mark I – I agree, I bought the pot, cooker, and oil one time and it was not worth the cost and effort. That is why we still buy the finished deep fried turkey.
We deep fry all the time and not just for Thanksgiving. The guys love hanging outside. I think it makes them feel like they hunted the bird or something. Just miss the homemade gravy and stew/soup made with the carcus.
No wonder your name is Joy! Smart cookie!
Hey, if it works for you, cool. But my son's former girlfriend's idea of cooking was slaving over a hot takeout menu!
No one has died at my house from eating stuffing that was cooked in the bird, but several did have a painful night from eating that which was not removed from the cavity soon enough–it's just not worth it. Turkey Day should be a Happy Day! If you make your stuffing outside of the bird, and you use your own made from scratch then cooled and frozen to be later thawed turkey broth, the aroma and taste are the same as if it was made in the bird.
You remove the stuffing from the bird after you taken it out the oven.,, Geez – like I said common sense.
Is using your brain that much to ask?
Happy Thanksgiving!
True. As soon as the bird comes out of the oven, you remove the stuffing and store it separately. If the temp in the stuffing is correct, it should be safe to eat, but once it's out of the oven, if you leave it in the turkey, all bets are off.
Stuffing is never as good made outside the turkey – might as well use stove top. But, you do have to use common sense. We had a 50 pound turkey last year (see my other post) and we didn't stuff that one – it just took too long to cook and we were worried about the affect of bacteria accumulating within the stuffing in that period of time. This year we're back to the 20ish pound turkey and it will get stuffed – just a general Pepperidge farm bread cube stuffing with butter and celery and seasonings, made ahead and then stuffed into the turkey as it goes into the oven. No one has ever gotten sick and we've been doing this for over 50 years. Just remove it all from the turkey as soon as it comes out of the oven (before cool-down/carving time) and refrigerate any leftovers (not much here) as soon as dinner is over.
Can anyone provide a documented account of someone who died from eating turkey stuffing? Come on folks, lets get real!
The best tip is to use an oven bag and oven thermometer with an audible alarm. The bag seals in the juices (so no yucky salty brine is needed) AND it takes half the time!
That is not true. My mom use to do this and the turkey still came out dry.
Every time I have had a turkey cooked in a bag it was disgusting...I love when my dad makes the turkey on the grill...its moist and has an amazing smoky taste!!! Happy Thanksgiving (My favorite holiday!!!)
bags make the skin rubbery. There's really no reason to use a bag unless you have absolutely no idea how to cook a turkey
We have had pretty good results with the bag also. It is just another way to cook a dead bird. I don't know why people seem to feel it necessary to attack other methods "well we have cooked a turkey this way for a hundred years in my family..."
No one really cares. There are multiple ways of cooking a dead turkey and they all work out well according to the person's preference. Why can't people accept this, I just don't understand.
I just like the bag because there's less to clean up in the end! We have really good results with cooking bags and ham on Christmas- it sounds weird but a can of non-diet soda makes a good glaze.
Both my husband and I are losing weight this year and our kids are little, so there will be no whole turkey this year for us, it would go to waste. Anyone have any suggestions on how to cook some really good turkey breasts? I'm a terrible cook!
@kaleto, you're on the right track that a bag can cut cooking time. What the bag does for you is effectively steam the turkey. The steam has a much higher thermal conductivity than the dry air in the oven, which helps accelerate the process.
It's not a guarantee, of course, that it will prevent a dry bird, like @SusanT points out. Particularly, since your bird will cook faster, following a conventional table will certainly overcook it, and give you a drier result than you would have had with normal roasting.
@sockpuppet observed that skin does not crisp. In my opinion, that is the biggest drawback of moist cooking. There are a few workarounds, but no real solutions. One way to deal with it is to quickly sear the bird after bag-roasting it. This will give the skin the color and flavor you're used to, and get a lot closer to the crispy texture, though not as well as dry-roasting.
Try using a PAPER bag – I was sure it would catch on fire (especially with a gas oven), but it doesn't, and it really does keep the turkey moist and cooks it in the same amount of time as it would without it. Of course it would be hard to find a paper bag to fit the 50 pound turkey my sister had last year (raised on her FIL's farm), but for smaller turkeys it is a good alternative way of cooking.
My sister's husband's family used to leave a cooked turkey in the oven the night after the Thanksgiving meal. I don't know how no one ever got sick. Maybe they had a cold oven. I would also like to say the worst turkey on earth is Butterball. Since I only eat "flesh" a few times a year I like to buy as close to "organic" as possible. I think there is a true difference in taste.
And you use quotes around the word flesh to what? Designate that it isn't a real word? That others call it something else, but you call it flesh? Or your hipster-part-vegan self is too cool for eating anything without an organically-grown face?
Best response EVER....nice jcvd....you said what most of us were thinking.
Who said you spoke for us all? The lady was just giving her opinion.
At Thanksgiving, I give "thanks" for people like you.
J.B.B wrapped that joke up quite nicely. I don't like any of you because you're not me.
No one said he spoke for us all. Pretty sure he said 'most of us". Reign it in there a bit.
Aren't you special. Only eating "flesh" a few times, and organic to boot. Way to write a response to an article just to brag about your perfect life
Far from a perfect life if one is only eating flesh once in a while.
I've never met a good looking vegetarian. They always have that sickly look to them.
aw. neal! I'm so sorry
oh Neal, check me out, you must not know a lot of veggie people haha. you don't know what you're missing, we are sexy and we don't stink from rotting carcasses in our colons. we are actually healthier
I know a veggie-man who weighs 250lbs and looks like whale.
Fine looking vegan here. :)
well I know a lot of vegans that stink from all the beans ans asparagus they eat, in addition to the "natural" deodorants and soaps that they use (or DON'T use), that really do jack about body odor. just saying
Chances are you met plenty of (normal-looking) vegetarians and didn't realize it. I don't go around telling everyone that I'm a vegetarian, for instance. Perhaps you assume everyone is an omnivore unless told otherwise? Besides, why the hostility toward vegetarians? You can eat what you eat... let others eat what they eat. It is all good.
I remember a young couple who were so proud of their "vegetarian" status they bragged continuously. I chuckled quietly behind their back as they wore their leather shoes and belts equally proudly. What a couple of b-asses.
Two things: my daughter is a vegetarian, and she is a drop dead gorgeous redhead. Nothing sickly about her. She likes meat, but doesn't trust the meat packing industry, so she gave up meat after that video of "downer cows" being loaded into the grinder via forklift came out a few years ago. I like meat way too much to give it up (cold turkey – ha), but she has a point.
Also, I only ever prepare a fresh, free range turkey. No frozen injected turkeys ever again. It's perfect every time, or so I'm told. Happy Thanksgiving.
Geez some of you vegans–well– how can I put this diplomatically–just go out to a field on thanksgiving day and eat whatever is available. Lord help you.
Such anger. I wonder what the internal issue is?
John does not have an issue. He's very right.
@HMMM
No issues here.
You must be a vegan too. How could you possibly know what I'm talking about?
Here's a hint – irritating.
This is a good example of why I'm embarassed at times to mention that I'm vegetarian (for health purposes only). Geez . .
why so rude to grofys? I eat meat, and I'm not terribly picky about it. But if Grofys only eats meat a few times a year, it seems reasonable that she would want something that suits her taste. I don't like Butterball either, and organic meat can be really good. It's just another option–expensive, but if you rarely eat meat anyone it's not a bank-breaker.
"Because" "of" "quote" "abuse."
"Abusing" "quotation" "marks" "is" "far" "worse" "than" "eating" "things" "with" "faces."
I "second" Balto Paul. (Or is that "Balto" Paul?)
Yeah I don't understand the hostility to grofys. I also am a meateater and don't find the post bothersome at all. She's not even a full time vegetarian, just says she eats meat rarely.
As for the quotes, she used them absolutely correctly. In this case it highlights a non-standard use of the word, used by a subset of the population to add extra emotional weight. Yes it is technically "flesh," but this usage is unusual because it is normally just called "meat" in this context. People - often vegetarians - call it "flesh" to make it sound more offensive. She could have said "so-called 'flesh'", or "'flesh,' as those more extreme than I often call it" - had she wished to be more wordy about it.
That is not how you use them. And the fact that she wanted it emphasize it makes it sea special. Like she was the only person in the world to do it. She could have just said, "I only eat flesh a few times a year." Still makes her point and she doesn't sound like she's going. "neyh" as she's talking.
or she could've just said "I only eat meat a few times a year" and avoided being snotty about it to begin with
Rob:
This was a piece about cooking and eating turkey. There are meat-eaters reading this. If I went over to a vegitarian piece and started going on self-righteously about my "carnivorism' and how I love to eat tasty "animals", I'd be asking for some "abuse", and I bet you I'd find plenty.
Grammar is truly dead. I blame the internets.
well at least you're not self-righteous about eating "flesh".
We've made ourselves so paranoid about food. I'm going to live forever and it's BECAUSE I eat food that other people wouldn't. Where's Andrew Zimmern when I need him?
I am in the camp of a brinded bird is the best bird. However, I cut the salt in half and replace with other spices and orange juice. This way you get a tender turkey and gravy that is not too salty. Happy Thanksgiving!
Love putting an orange in there!
Cutting the salt in half (assuming you use a recipe) completely negates the benefits of brining. All you do, in that case, is create a salty bird. It IS the high level of salt that makes the bird moist and if you rinse it very well (inside and out) you will not have a salty bird in the end.
@LennyD, you don't necessarily need a high concentration of salt; in fact, if the salt is too high, it can go the other direction and dry out the bird. The salt works by solubizing the myosin in the bird, effectively allowing the bird to hold more water. A lot of brine recipes recommend far higher concentrations than required to do that, and just add salty flavor. It's the increased salt that makes a salty bird, not reduced.
Oh and all the other "myths" – Just follow the directions have some common sense, know that there cannot be rare fowl, and enjoy.
Happy Thanksgiving – I can't wait!
I and many other people enjoy rare to mid rare duck breast. Obviously not commercially raised ducks, but wild birds. You should give it a shot.
You can most certainly eat rare to medium rare breast meat from commercially raised ducks. Any restaurant that serves "duck breast" as one of the main course options will suggest the temperature to be medium or lower.
Well – As far as stuffing the turkey – My family has been stuffing it for as long as I can remember. My Grandma, my mom and now I do, and will always stuff that turkey. Obviously we always did it right because no one has died from our thanksgiving feasts. So there is the lesson – do it right.
Stuffing the bird with dried bread pulls all the moisture out of the bird.
Stuff the bird with sliced onion, apple, carrots, and celery ... and discard this after cooking.
Make your stuffing in the oven, preferably with some pan drippings for authentic stuffing taste.
This is so not true about how stuffing the bird with dry bread pulls out all the moisture. My family's recipe for stuffing has always included dry bread and we've NEVER had a dry turkey. It is always moist.
harold mcgee, you are a god to chefs everywhere. your book is one of my indispensable resources.
Sorry, Becky. I'm gonna side with Alton Brown and stuff my turkey with aromatics. You and grandma can keep putting bread in yours if you like.
From what I remember, Alton Brown recommends not stuffing a turkey because it then requires an a shorter cooking time, and the less time the turkey is in the oven, the less time it has to dry out – NOT because stuffing somehow "sucks" moisture out of the turkey...
I use some bread, but better than half of my stuffing is other stuff- celery, onions, nuts, cranberries, Italian parsley, rosemary, thyme, and sage, sometimes currants or mushrooms. And I save the pan drippings for gravy- priorities!
I'm with Alton, too. Putting breading into raw poultry and then eating it is just ASKING for salmonella poisoning. If you like the look of a stuffed turkey, cook the turkey and stuffing separately, then put the stuffing in the turkey after it's already been fully cooked.
I have been making turkey dinners for Thanksgiving and Christmas now for 25 years and have stuffed the turkey the same way my mother did and no one has ever gotten sick from it. That's over 50 turkeys at least for me and God knows how many it was for her. Pepperidge Farm stuffing with sausage and sage. The moisture stays in the bird because we baste it at least once every hour. That includes the turkey meat AND the stuffing inside the bird. Yum!
I've been playing Russian Roulette for an hour now and I haven't shot myself in the head. And my father played for several days before that and he's fine too. I don't know why people keep saying this game in dangerous!
What was OK for our mothers and grandmothers to do is not OK now. The birds they stuffed were not raised in the circumstances they are now, were not stuffed with hormones to create a breast so huge the turkey can't walk, nor loaded with antibiotics. The result of these modern methods are birds that are vulnerable to contamination with E. coli and other harmful bacteria, and will not bake as evenly as turkeys of the past due to the abundance of breast meat. If you choose to serve a stuffed turkey, do it at the risk of your health and that of your family and guests. Doing something over and over because it's "traditional" isn't always the best idea.
You can get around that by hunting your own turkey. You get a better bird, and a the thrill of the hunt.
So you're claiming that antibiotics produce birds with more bacteria? Interesting theory...
Fact: cook your bird to an appropriate temperature and you're going to be just fine, 99% of the time. You're FAR more likely to get food poisoning because of poor kitchen hygiene (not cleaning up areas that had raw turkey on it, for instance), than because of a stuffed bird. Use a good thermometer and keep counters/hands clean. The rest, as they say, is gravy. Come out of your bubbles folks, the air is fine out here.
European settlers probably ate eel, not turkey, at the first Thanksgiving...(See The Economiste-Sep 23rd 2010).
And...?
Have you ever tried to stuff an eel?? I'd recommend making the stuffing separately and stuff it after the eel has been cooked. BTW, what's the proper temperature for a moist eel?
I'll bet I can cross the road in front of my house 50 times in a row with my eyes closed and not get hit by a car.
Just because I survive each time doesn't make it safe.
Okay. You walk. I'll count ............ go.............
Best advice. Don't cook the turkeys. They also need to live a free life like us human beings. Killing these birds is not thanksgiving.
The bird is raised by humans so that we can eat it.
I will eat anything that does not eat me first. Birds, Vegetables, Animals, and if I got hungry enough I might even be tempted to eat YOU.
Love! Agreed, one thousand %.
Vegan logic never ceases to amaze me. Don't eat animals because they're alive and deserve to live just as much as you and me ...... right? So then you're telling me that plants (that are living organisms) deserve less? Why? Because they don't walk around and made sound? How do you know that plants are not, in fact, sentient beings that simply operate on a wavelength that we just are not in tune with???? Your capacity for compassion for a living being should not be limited to ITS ability to communicate with YOU – especially considering that there are plenty of humans on this planet that would fail THAT test!!!!
As a health inspector, this article has several problems. First, creating a "toxic turkey" by cooking low and slow is a joke. If that were the case, where's are all the toxic BBQ? If the turkey is handled properly (as most are) and cooked to an internal 165 degrees, no problem. HOWEVER, if you follow #4 and cook to 150 degrees, you could very well end up with a toxic turkey. That bacteria this bozo talks about will flourish between 40-140 degrees, it DIES at 165 degrees (just ask the USDA). ALL poultry should be cooked to 165, which kills salmonela, campylopbactera, and avian flu.
Thanks Charles!
Wow! I learned my something new for the day, thanks!
As a health inspector, you should educate yourself a bit more. A very slow roast leaves the internal temperature between 70 and 110 (optimum bacteria breeding conditions) for a long period of time. This bacteria, which is not just salmonella, does die at 165 but leaves much of what it produces during reproduction behind. Think of it as bacteria excrement; it might be dead, but do you want to eat it? Second, BBQ cooked slow is subject to different rules due to water activity levels. Sugar, Salt, and low pH from acidic and vinegary sauces create an inhospitable environment for the growth of bacteria.
Take a Servsafe course, it's worth a few bucks.
Read a little more carefully. It says cooking a stuffed* turkey low and slow may be toxic. Also, every slow roaster I know separates large poultry meats (unless it's a small bird). That is why he says " Breast meat at an inner temperature of 150 to 160 degrees is much moister and safe. Leg meat is tougher, and better at 160 to 170 degrees." Bone in dark poultry from a large bird will always take longer that the breast. That's why I cook mine separate.
Also, USDA studies say that cooking to 155-160 kills 98-99% of the bacteria but once it hits that 165 its from 99-100. Most healthy bodies can handle tiny amounts of the bacteria. But it's certainly not worth the risk at a restaurant and hence that is how you should (and I can tell you do) grade a restaurant. At home, a little different, fewer chances of contamination in a properly maintained low traffic kitchen.
USDA standards are built with a margin of error, especially when applied in a commercial setting. They take into account more than just safe temp, they assume that ovens will vary in their exact temp and ability to hold it steady, differences in cook time due to altitude, temp variation from opening to check doneness, and other minor errors and mistakes which occur.
So if you know what you're doing, and have a good kitchen with solid equipment, you can go with the basic scientific numbers for safe times/temps. But most people at home should stick with USDA guidelines due to all the varying factors.
No, you have just been very lucky all this time.
After reading this thread, I think I'll have a bowl of cereal instead.
If you knew what is in cereal you wouldn't eat that either.