 "Snort! Snort!" The plump, pink beast comes rumbling towards me as I approach, then attaches its snout to my leg, sniffing intensely, apparently trying to determine if I bring food. It looks like a Yorkshire pig, behaves, sounds and smells like one. But genetically the pigs at Canada's University of Guelph swine research laboratory are different. They are "greener", emitting a smaller quantity of pollutants in their manure. Thus, their creators named the species, “Enviropig.” And they hope one day the Enviropig’s descendents may be on your dinner plate. “Certainly one of the goals of the technology is to produce a pig which could be consumed by humans and enter the food chain,” said Richard Moccia, Professor of Animal Science and Associate Vice President of Research at the University of Guelph. “We have done extensive testing on the various internal organs and different meat cuts from the Enviropig, looked at the nutritional content and the amount of protein and fat and minerals and other things contained in the pig. They're identical to a normal Yorkshire pig.” What does "genetically modified" really mean? But no one has ever eaten an Enviropig, said Moccia. It’s not permitted yet. Though scientists first produced the pig in 1999, the University of Guelph conducted extensive testing before applying for approval from the Food and Drug Administration in 2007 and Canadian food and health regulators the following year. The University expects the FDA will be first to act and believe the agency is about half-way through its analysis, though the FDA won’t say. "I think people are particularly concerned about genetic engineering right now and what I can tell the American public is that the FDA has a very rigorous process for assessing the safety of food from such animals, and that no food from a genetically engineered animal will go on the market unless the FDA has demonstrated that it's safe," said Larisa Rudenko of the Food and Drug Administration’s Animal Biotechnology Interdisciplinary Group. The Center for Food Safety, which advocates organic farming, argues the Enviropig should not be a dinner option: hog farming needs to change, not pig genetics. “It's a completely novel cell invasion technology where we are crossing the boundaries of nature as no other generation has before. And the question is whether that is safe, whether that is something that we should be doing ethically, those are very serious questions that we as a society need to be asking,” said Andrew Kimbrell, Director of the Center. How is genetically modified food labeled? Before ruling on Enviropig, FDA will likely make a decision on genetically-altered Salmon. The fish, developed by Waltham, Massachusetts-based AquaBounty Technologies, grows nearly twice as quickly as normal salmon. If approved it would be the first animal created in a genetics laboratory to be available for human consumption. Simply producing genetically-modified pork chops, however, is not a motivation for scientists at Guelph. They’re trying to protect the environment and save hog farmers some money at the same time. Pigs are polluters. It’s their manure that’s the problem. It’s packed with a plant form of phosphorous- called phytate- that’s contained in corn and other hog feed. Because regular pigs do a poor job of digesting phytate phosphorous much of it comes out in their manure. That’s important because hog farmers use their animal’s manure as fertilizer. When it rains some of it runs off into the watershed. The phosphorous from hog manure promotes algae growth. Too much phosphorous will creating algae blooms that choke off oxygen in bodies of water – like Lake Erie and the Gulf of Mexico- creating “deadzones” where fish and other aquatic life can not survive. The "Enviropig" has a more robust digestive system than its relatives, able to digest plant phosphorous on average 50% more successfully than ordinary pigs so its manure has a far lower concentration of phosphorous than that of normal pigs. “The Enviropig is a technology to try to reduce the amount of phosphorous that leaves a pig farm. And if you can do that, you can also then reduce and control the amount of phosphorous that gets into the aquatic ecosystem, said Moccia. “So really what we're doing is using the genetic technologies in the pig to try to solve a phosphorous overloading problem into both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.” Scientists added DNA from E. coli bacteria and from a mouse to a Yorkshire pig’s embryo to create the Enviropig. The E.coli bacteria gene allows the pig to digest plant phosphate, by allowing the pig to produce an enzyme called phytase in its saliva. The mouse gene acts to accelerate the process. As a result, "Enviropig" does not require a feed additive that farmers provide to pigs to help them digest plant phosphorous. That’s where the cost savings can come in. It’s less than $1/pig over its life time, according to the Ontario Pork Producers Marketing Board. But when you consider more than 70-million pigs are slaughtered for food each year in the U.S. and Canada, it can amount to a significant savings, which theoretically could lead to a slight reduction in price for consumers. Ontario Pork producers have contributed more than $1 million to Enviropig research. Ontario’s provincial government also has invested in Enviropig research which has cost over $5-million. That investment may yield a good return one day. University of Guelph scientists are talking with a company that hopes to bring Enviropigs to China. And, the school has received inquiries from a half dozen other Far Eastern countries. What we choose to eat, where we buy our food and how much we spend on it says a lot more about who we are than you might think. Beginning Sunday, September 26, 2010, CNN Newsroom will launch a week-long series dedicated to healthy eating called, “Eatocracy: Mind, Body and Wallet,” kicking off with the rest of the Enviropig debate on CNN Cover Story, Sunday at 7:30 p.m. ET. |
  Recent Posts
 |
 |
|
© 2012 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
| Advertise with us | About us | Help | Advertising Practices
i like BACON !!!! GOOD WHEN YOUR HIGH~!
Well, the only reason we genetically modify our food or inject artificail growth hormones into them is, in root, simply because of our growing population (all of humanity), but this is not taking into account other (microeconomic) factors such as amibition or greed within a society...
Looks like a pig, acts like a pig...
but does it EAT like a pig?
FDA approval would be all well and good, but, if these things can't get approval from say, a BBQ Pit Master, then all that research money is wasted.
But, then again, perhaps the animal rights people have a point, and eating poor defenseless animals is wrong, how do we rectify the situation?
Oh wait... I know.... Soylent Green for everyone!
@citizen422-
The answer is not "soylent green", it's follow a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet – as many people do. It's healthier and more affordable than a meat-based diet, and more humane towards animals. Some famous vegetarians include Albert Einstein, Ben Franklin, Charles Darwin, Clint Eastwood, Gandhi, to name just a few – so you will be in good company.
This is beyond sad for so many reasons. The aim here is to allow factory farmers to continue to cram as many hogs as possible into their crowded warehouses, under the guise of less phosphorus in the poop makes us environmentally friendly? Great – more pigs (who are smarter than dogs and just as sociable and friendly) can be subjected to lives of abject misery. Phosphorus is only one reason these hog farms produce so much pollution. Fertilizer, nitrogen, and the sheer volume of waste will not be addressed. Who knows what long-term of eating genetically modified food will be? No one! This is another good reason to not eat meat.
We raise a dozen pigs on pasture each year (along with some other self-sustaininggrass-fed animals), in timberlot like they love and eating grubs and microbes as they are intended, roots and tubers and wallow in the mud to scratch their skin. These are very happy, succulent piggies! ;-)
Bc they are rotated to fresh pasture daily they do NOT smell, their manure does NOT touch a waterway, in fact, our chickens (aka pigswith wings if you think of their make up ha) follow behind to scratch out the grains, microbes and bugs that are attracted to the poop.
Now, for some that seems disgusting, but guess what, that is what these animals are designed to be in their behaviors and diets. We feed them clabbered milk (raw milk and oats) and finish them on apples and walnuts – our customers LOVE the delicacy of the meat that is enhanced not only by their diet but bc happy animals make great tasting meat.
We do NOT see any benefit to our world, the growing population or our fellow man to genetically mutilate an animal away from its origins into a franken pig; it is MISMANAGEMENT of CAFO type animal systems with centralized, overloaded manure systems that are the problem.
Pigs are smart and fun to raise; just like other bottom dwellers like chickens and shrimp, their diet reflects how they assimilate it.
Going vegan is not the answer if you really study the human body's need for nutrients found only in meat, people should be able to eat foods they are made to eat and producers should be able to raise them in responsible poly-cultures that support the environment instead of the poorly assimilated waste byproducts of moncultural ag.
We have taught our children to remove themselves from the commerical food system for this reason, 'someone' has no problem poisoning us with wacked out food and we aren't going tos tick around the industiral food system to figure it out.
@lovethem –
That's great that you raise pigs in their natural environment. However, how old are they when you slaughter them? How much of their natural lives did they miss out on by being slaughtered at a young age? Pigs are very intelligent beings, not "meat." Why don't you grow vegetables instead, and keep your beautiful pigs as pets and enjoy their company? They would like to live out their natural lives, instead of being slaughtered at an early age to end up on someone's plate.
being a vegetarian is not something I will ever think of being, There is nothing you can do to a plant to make it taste like meat. veggies make great side dishes for meat, as long as meat is the MAIN course. Beef pork, chicken and fish cannot ever take a back seat to leaves, stalks or roots.
MMM, tasty tasty bacon. So Tasty!!!
Have you ever seen an apple tree suddenly start growing pigs?
Anyone else get super tired of hearing complaining about the ebil corporations? This is capitalism folks, I don't know what you were expecting. Buy it or don't, but stop acting like it's at all surprising.
Truth: Viruses re-write our DNA/RNA on a daily basis. They cause errors which result in obesity, cervical cancer, and many other disorders.
The same thing is happening to livestock daily. Every time a virus enters a plant or animal there is a huge chance for mutation.
We don't care about this because... well... it's natural. Not a thing we can do about it.
Ever wonder why a species of say apple suddenly starts putting out a remarkably different apple on just one branch (this is called a sport, but is simply mutation at work). This is how many of our new plant and animal species have come to us.
All that is happening with genetic manipulation is that humans are in control of the changes. Targeted changes. If it produces a toxin it's a failure. If the animal dies, it's a failure... just as in nature.
Natural mutation is like walking along a deep rapid running stream looking for a tree that has fallen across to form a bridge. Genetic engineering is like building a sturdy wide bridge across the same stream that aids not only travel, but commerce.
True enough, monsters happen. Due to a series of genetic mutations beginning around a million years ago an apex predator was born into this world which has ravaged plant and animal life in all environments on the planet. This mutation of African plains ape was called "man".
As hunter gatherers we ravaged mega wildlife herds with spears and fire until they were EXTINCT. It wasn't until we learned to herd and farm that our impact on the biology of this planet began to minimize.
We continued to refine those arts through selective breeding of both plants and animals, which has managed to reduce our impact on the planet.
The next logical step, now that man is aware of our impact on the planet's biosphere, is to further lower our biological footprint using controlled genetic engineering to reduce our effect on the worlds ecosystems.
You may want to do some research on gmos and biotechnology.
An apple tree may naturally be exposed to a virus and have a few interesting pieces of fruit because of it, but that apple tree will never have sections of DNA from an Atlantic pout (a fish) or some other species expressed within its own DNA 'naturally'. NEVER. Only through human interference and the adulteration of nature can that happen.
And happen it does.
There are examples of it in the American food supply EVERYWHERE.
Stop eating pigs! Pigs are extremely intelligent animals – more intelligent than dogs. They suffer terribly in factory farms and never enjoy their short lives, then they are slaughtered under the most horrifying conditions, fully aware of what is happening to them. Let these beautiful, intelligent creatures live out their lives naturally. We certainly do not have the right to genetically modify them. "Enviropig" is a complete misnomer, and more corporate lying. Shameful.
All true and well said. Even stubborn meat eaters should support humane handling of animals, which can never occur with mass "production"
Most disturbing is this statement by Moccia,
“The Enviropig is a technology to try to reduce the amount of phosphorous that leaves a pig farm. And if you can do that, you can also then reduce and control the amount of phosphorous that gets into the aquatic ecosystem, said Moccia. “So really what we're doing is using the genetic technologies in the pig to try to solve a phosphorous overloading problem into both terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems.”
The Enviropig is a technology..!?!? It is an animal, when we start seeing life of any kind as a technology we are on a serious slippery slope! I raise pigs and I don't have a problem with manure run off but I make sure that I do not exceed the carrying capacity of my land.
The metabolic rate of the enviropig will have an affect on people's hearts...heartattacks!
The pigs meat has already been tested on people and the gov just doesn't want people to know.
Keep out of God's Lab!
Sounds like the problem is the spreading of manure and not the pigs...Maybe a better fertilizer or application process should be developed.
I've been a vegan for about 20 years; I'm pushing 70 now. I really feel better and my conscience is clear.
Poor plants. :-(
Okay... not eating fish, now not eating pork... I hope they don't touch chickens and cows anytime soon.
I wonder if you will here the environmental groups sound off about GM pigs as they did with GM salmon..hmmmmmmm.
What about the pig itself? Will it have a normal lifespan if it wasn't in a factory farm? Will it get weird diseases or organ malfunctions if you were to keep it as a breeder?
I'm no vegan. I like meat. I eat meat. I raise my own meat. BUT! the animals all are given a quality life even if it is short. What would be in store for poor FrankenPig?
Did anybody bother looking ahead?
If you haven't yet seen it, you should take a look at a film called "Future of Food". It's available free on Hulu.com. It's a scary look at how chemical companies are taking over our food supply. They patent seeds right now and I can see how they might one day patent pigs too. They are certainly NOT doing this for the good of the planet. It's all about the money. At any rate, take a look at the film if you get a chance. It's an eye opener. :(
Even though they may look similar on the outside (according to you), with today's advancements in technology it has become quite simple: we take a DNA sample from the animal in question and compare it to a know sample (your mom's DNA). If it matches above a certain threshold then we have a real pig!
Ha! You are what you eat, right??
Yes LuvhUrt, let's all get back to the good old "natural" ways. It's almost dinner time, so we better gather some hunters and head into the forest to try to catch a wild pig. In the mean time, the children can grab some berries and the women may clean up the trash from the cave.
Get real! So much money is being wasted on this GM crap. I guess it is easier for these "scientists" to set in labs and spend billions of dollars on useless most likely harmful (to the subjects including us) technologies rather than to get out in the field grow fresh foods. Which, by the way, is what everyone needs more of not some modified pig. This is not euphoria though, so everyone can't just realize that live (enzymatic rich foods) are what keep us healthy forever and commit to a 75 %fresh food diet that they can grow a percentage of themselves and actually give back to the earth and demand less. Just let that go, though. So, just to address a much easier question which is what this research is supposed to be pertaining to; mitigating the effects of "Industrial" Animal Waste into the water supply. I highlight the "Industrial" aspect of this first as it is actually the biggest problem. So a simple, rudimentary solution is – if you don't raise it yourself you don't get, or you get allotted(environmentally determined) amount, oooh but that's just mean though folks need that bacon(daily :().... So let's go the scientific (not mad science as suggested) route which is to set up efficient systems of processing this industrial waste into energy needed for the farms. Really think we can't do that, and that it would just be easier to redesign the pig? No! Learn to work with the earth. Who do we think we are?
This is ridiculous. xD
One issue that I have not heard addressed yet is how will individuals, like myself, know if we are being feed the meat of a genetically altered pig? This is especially important to those of us on dialysis (ie., people with kidney failure) that need to severely limit our intake of phosphorous. If the pigs is ingesting the same amount of phosphorous form its feed and less is in its manure, then there must be extra phosphorous in the meat.
In the case of the genetically altered salmon, the producers have argued against any labeling requirement. Above shows that there can be unintended harmful results unless the end consumer is given the information required to make an intelligent choice.
I'm sorry that you are in renal failure. That being said, you missed an important part of the article – the meat from the Enviropig is indistinguishable from that of a non-Enviropig.
The eco-extremists cannot be ever satisfied. They are just as bad as the extreme-conservatives, with their fear of science and innovation. That's so sad.
Can't you people see that scientists are actually trying to do a good thing here? I suggest you go do some research about all the serious environmental issues related to pig manure – and please stop preaching to us with that old rhetoric about becoming a vegeratian as the cure for all of society's evils.
And by the way, I'll become a vegetarion the day science creates a genetically engineered plant that can grow bacon.
In the mean time, if you excuse me, I have to go because I have some pork ribs waiting for me on the grill.
Mixing genes of so different species, like pig, mouse and E.coli,and THEN TO EAT such an OUTCOME, is crazy, to me. Do people want to eat pork, or mouse with some taste of E.coli? The purpose of introducing an enzyme which produces even more phosphate, even faster, than the natural pigs non-modified body does, is highly questionable (except for those who are going to make money with that business), since deregulation of humans energy resource molecule ATP (especially sick people eating such a pork), plays very frequently a major role in all different types of cancers. Why nobody of you people read more about genetically modified plants, animals, fish and try to understand what is happening? Why we all do nothing, to protect these animals from the already very miserable life they have... Or is it all OK like that?
I would gladly volunteer to be the first person to eat meat from an Enviropig!
I have an honest question, to those of you with safety concerns: in what way do you expect/predict that this meat will harm you?
Enviropigs...Nom nom nom.
Bacon, sausage, ham...Rich dripping juicy MEAT. Mmmmm...
This is in no way "green"...
The pig's natural environment has developed mechanisms to deal with it's waste through microbes, bacteria, etc. And for those of you who are so "green" and mighty...phosphorous is a necessity for plants; ever think about maybe not chopping down all the forests that are such a vital part of processing all of our wastes instead of re-engineering life to produce different waste? We're not supposed to be breading so many pigs...and breading pigs because we figured out we shouldn't be breading so much cattle isn't an intelligent conclusion. The answer is NOT to genetically modify everything on the planet to function the way our selfish lifestyles require, the answer is to alter our lifestyles to be in better harmony with our environment. How are we planning to prepare our environment to deal with the way these new genetically engineered animals are going to interact with it; to be able to break down it's waste as part of the normal cycle.
This is a terrible idea that stems primarily from big business trying to quiet down the green-idiots so they can return to business as usual. These are the same baby-boomer, granola, hippy-types that will show up and "share" all of your things until there's nothing left and then move on...that's far from "green", which has turned into more of a brand than a movement.
The negative impact of farming any fish or animals has always been huge on the environment. Since we live in and rely on our environment to support our life and provide for us as part of it's cycle...maybe we should stop trying to fight against the system. Re-engineering the life on this planet because we've overpopulated it and refuse to act responsibly is pretty bad policy.
Soo... rather than just feeding pigs something they can digest naturally, we blow $5 million + dollars genetically modifying pigs to consume corn crap with no real nutritional value and feed these CREATED beings to people... also, what happens if the genetically modified creatures, which grow and breed at an excelerated pace, such as salmon, enter the natural environment? Science: proving there is no God since the 15th century.
Good! More transgenic food, please! We do it with our fruits and vegetables already. Faster growing animals, cleaner animals, less damage to the environment... YES Ma'am!
...or, we could just stop eating filthy, unhealthy, environment destroying bodies of tortured and bruta
Organic = The Best
STOP JUST STOP!!! YOU are NOT entitled to other people's bodies without their consent or against their will. Where did you learn this stuff? Entitled brats. GO AWAY!!!
"One day the absurdity of the almost universal human belief in the slavery of other animals will be palpable. We shall then have discovered our souls and become worthier of sharing this planet with them."
Martin Luther King, Jr
Half of these comments makes me thank nature for creating all the bad things to keep our ego-centric species in check... Sorry but I have a hard time being compassionate for humanity as a whole, because you know what? Just like most humans don't care about animals being nothing more then "tasty tasty" meat, they shouldn't take it personally when nature takes them out. I mean it is what it is right? It's truly sad, that science has given us a sense of entitlement we simply don't deserve.
"Until we have the courage to recognize cruelty for what it is – whether its victim is human or animal – we cannot expect things to be much better in this world... We cannot have peace among men whose hearts delight in killing any living creature. By every act that glorifies or even tolerates such moronic delight in killing we set back the progress of humanity."
Rachel Carson
It is not the pigs creating the phosphorous run off it is the chemical fertilizers.
Don't even think of trying to get us to pay for this adulteration to our food supply.
if god didn't want me to eat animals he would not have made them out of tasty tasty meat.
You're such an idiot it hurts...if you're expecting your "god" to give you a bigger sign than that tasty, tasty meat clogging up your arteries and stopping your heart, then you're a waste of the thumbs you've been given.
As a person involve in production of Enviropig I can probably try to answer some specific questions.
Here is also good article on genetic engineering by food science professor
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/harvest/interviews/hotchkiss.html
Ok...is anyone else disturbed by the fact that they put E. Coli (!!!!!) in this pig and are claiming now that it is ok for consumption?!? Us humans and our meddling are going to be the end of this planet some day, I swear.
Escherichia coli ( E coli) is a bacterium that is commonly found in the lower intestine of warm-blooded organisms. Most E. coli strains are harmless and some necessary for your digestive process. They are literally 100's of thousands of strains since new once are constantly developing. In other words, very few forms of E. Coli are actually bad for you, hell you got it in you right now.
Actually, e-coli is a really useful organism and most strains are NOT dangerous. Also, splicing in a gene is completely different from inoculating a pig with dangerous bacteria. E-coli is also used to produce insulin – a lot less risky than grinding up cow pancreases, if you ask me.
That said, I think this whole "Enviropig" thing is crazy. I have a real problem with creating a pig that can digest things it normally shouldn't, all for the sake of cheap meat for everyone. I'd much rather save up for some grass-fed beef or free range pigs. If you've ever tasted a pig that gets to eat acorns like they're supposed to, there's just no comparison.
Both your arguments are wrong because of YOUR ADDICTION TO TASTE BUDS, i want you taste buds to be happy so i want more research for Club 1,
Club 2 Rule – YOU DONT GET MEAT if cannot get off your arseeeee and hunt with some new or old primitive weapon, NO KIDNAPPING OF ANIMAL ALLOWED.
Being the member of both clubs at some point of time.
I eat both wild and domesticated crocodile meat in South-Africa, but i found it's taste to be not as good as Soya Hot dogs from a nearby grocery store. Though i can learn to adapt my taste buds to crocs meat if i lived in jungle.
Just so that you know, what you have written makes very little sense.
For club 1- Let's overpopulate the earth with soybean plants that taste rather chalky anyway and don't give us everything we need in our daily struggle with life!
For club 2 – Let us have a balanced diet with meat, grains, and veggies for which we can overcome our daily challenges with!
For the Dharwin club – Let's reuse the same cookie cutter arguments over and over to annoy the general populance, and then eat some miracle soybean plant! =D
I ear both wild and domesticated crocodile meat in South-Africa, but i found it's taste to be not as good as Soya Hot dogs from near grocery store. Though i can learn to adapt my taste buds to crocs meat if i lived in jungle.
Both your arguments are wrong because of YOUR ADDICTION TO TASTE BUDS, i want you taste buds to be happy so i want more research for Club 1,
Club 2 Rule – YOU DONT GET MEAT if cannot get off your arseeeee and hunt with some new or old primitive weapon, NO KIDNAPPING OF ANIMAL ALLOWED.
i ear = i eat
Funny, I never found soybean to taste chalky, indeed I happen to LOVE the taste of soy protein!
THAT said, I DO agree that soy does NOT provide everything needed in one's diet.
So, I'll continue eating meats, grains and veggies ALONG with the "miracle" soybean as a supplement.
Of course it WOULD be nice if someone would GM soy to provide all required nutrients...
For club 1, we should do more research in trying to produce plant-farm based proteins that suite our taste buds that have minerals-protein-etc as well.
For Club 2, the game meat club, they can find various ways for hunting the wild population in excess.
In chemistry terms, these pigs can now digest this type of phosphorous.
However, the new waste products must still contain phosphorous, but present in another form.
How does this solve the original problem of K ending up in lakes through runoff?
From what I understand, the K runoff will be severely less, and if they lessen the main products in which they feed these pigs that produces the undesired end result, the K levels will drop off. I think of this more as stopgap or time buyer measure.
Erm, K or P? K is potassium. P is phosphorus. SLIGHTLY different elements...
THAT said, I need to get some pig poop and compost it, my garden is depleted... I'll have to add a bit of N to the mix though, that is depleted as well...
Yes, but can they make a Kosher and Allah-approved pig. That's what I would like to know.
it is clear, religion tries to get into everything where they should not be.
I see no difference between meat from pig, goat ...chicken, the religious additions are implanted for more divisions and territorial control on basis of religion ... ...
For club 1, we should do more research in trying to produce plant-farm based proteins that suite our taste buds and have minerals-protein.
For Club 2, they can find various ways for hunting the wild population in excess.
Leave the genetically modified food alone! The pig was created how it's suppose to!
Kana,
It is possible that certain people don't want to eat insects, But we can learn a lot of lessons about protein production from insects, apply those lessons into production of those Protein in Protein producing Farms-Plants.
It might all converge in that direction someday for sake of the taste buds.
This is more sickening Frankenscience being conducted by modern-day Josef Mengele-types.
I've been a vegetarian now for more than 2 years. I don't have any objection towards eating meat. It's the cruelty inflicted towards animals when they're raised and butchered that can be improved. I still believe that the deer population should be reduced in certain areas for the safety of motor vehicles and the reduction of wild pigs to protect farm lands and forests.
I eat meat. I LOVE eating meat, save beef these days...
THAT said, I DO find inhumane treatment of animals highly objectionable. When industrial operations began to be the primary method of raising our food animals, humane treatment went out the window. To the point that one could argue FOR *ANY* means of killing the animal, just to end its suffering!
As for the animal being genetically modified, THAT has zero effect on my medically. It causes no illness to the animal. Indeed, it should actually make the animal healthier.
So, I'm all for THIS model. I'm a bit uncertain regarding the GM Salmon, just due to the chance of an accidental release into the wild.
And one type of corn that accidentally made its way into the human food chain while I was overseas, cooked it for FOUR hours and it was STILL too tough to eat and tasted like plastic. It turned out that THAT particular GM strain was animal feed corn...
WOW! This discussion has brought some truly WACKO people on-line.
If all of you so called healthy vegans, vegatarians or whatever you want to be called really now how much more chemicals are in the greens that you consume or the supplement pills that you take, you would go back to eating meat. Our earth is being killed NOT by FARMERS but by people who do not care about that plastic bag that they send to the landfills, by that water bottle that has the Organic water that is so much safer to consume then tap water. Our American Farmer is an occupation that is dwindling away at a faster rate then any other occupation. Guess what people? If we lose our farms we DO NOT collect unemployment like most of you do.
We farmers are trying to do the best that we can with what little resources that we have. And if you think that we are getting rich, take a look at my tax return. No goverment assistance for me. Yet a negative income to produce the food that you all consume. Potatoes for your baked potato, broccolli for your salads and wheat for the breads that you eat. ALL of these foods and I mean ALL of them has had some form of Genetic modification to improve the taste, appearance, color or yield so WE the consumers of this world are happier. And the word ORGANIC is too far over stated in all uses. Organic means the only thing that you can do to help promote the growth of this food is to pull weeds BY HAND!!! And if all food was grown this way, well, nice knowing you because most of you would not survive. There would be food shortages and I know that i would make it. I can grown my own food and raise my own meat. So heres to all you of salad only eaters....... Your lettuce screams when it is being pulled from the ground!
EAT MEAT!
not really, the pain intensity is lesser, the pain is NONE when you eat EGG as compared to a chicken,
abortion right ACTIVIST say, pain is lesser when you terminate pregnancy very-very early.
People who are against the consumption of animals are worse than the people who do, I believe. Eventually that animal has to die, and what better way for it to be used as a way to sustain ourselves? Remember, some cultures can barely supply food to each other, and people have the audacity to refuse to eat the sustenance that has helped us become the species superpower we are now. Like it or not, since the very beginning of time, we've engorged on pig and other various meat products. I'm all for the continuation of humans as a strong and amazing species, so pass me the bacon!
then be a man of your home and hunt for a wild boar,
if you are civilized, fund the research of protein producing farms to produce something more tasty than what we can get from animals. it shall happen.
When the wild boar runs out what will we hunt for? Perhaps its that elusive soybean plant??
Shreyl,
Results have shown, you can increase wild tiger population by making proper changes to their habitat....
not really, the pain intensity is lesser, the pain is NONE when you eat EGG as compared to a chicken,
abortion right ACTIVIST say, pain is lesser when you terminate pregnancy very-very early.
Poor Pig :( But..Pork is soo tasty mm.
New science but medieval minds.
Pigs are delicious. They provide me with the raw protein, amino acids, and fat I need to keep my body full of power and stamina. I supplement said pig with grains for more efficient energy and carbs. Telling us that we should live off plants is ludicrous. Name me at least one culture of people(IE: Not Vegans) that has forgone meat ENTIRELY and still survives to this day.
then be a man of your home and hunt for a wild boar, if you are civilized, fund the research of protein producing farms to produce something more tasty than what we can get from animals. it shall happen.
If you've got a big problem with this part of the pork industry, you should probably stop eating pork altogether. Because absolutely nothing about factory farmed pork is OK, for pigs or for you.
Don't like it? Go organic. Yeah, it's going to cost more, but that's the name of the game.
Or you can raise your own, and put whatever you want into it.
Or you can realize that this is a business, and business people can do what they want with their business for the most part, and it's your choice what businesses you give your money to.
With proper breeding, the protein from Soya plant will be able to replace meat on the plate and have minerals such as iron, Mg, Zinc, etc. this is where science need to be applied. No need to focus our science on medieval phosphorus control.
I think the only thing less natural than eating factory farmed animals is filling our bodies up with a bunch of soy crap.
Get away from our food supply. Stay away from our kids. Why don't you move to the energy sector. Make some biofuel or something.
How revolting to breed these sensitive, intelligent animals only to murder them so their rotting corpses can be eaten. Shame! Shame!
Trying to make livestock "green" or "environmentally-friendly" is like trying to do the same thing to a Hummer. At any rate, even if their crap becomes less toxic and contains less methane (CH4), for example, we're still feeding them (and other livestock animals) plant protein that would directly be eating. It's about trophic level energy efficiency.
May I invite you to read: http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/aug97/livestock.hrs.html
with proper breeding, the protein from Soya plant will be able to replace meat on the plate and have minerals such as iron, Mg, Zinc, etc. this is where science need to be applied. Not in medieval phosphorus control.
cody,
With proper breeding, the protein from Soya plant will be able to replace meat on the plate and have minerals such as iron, Mg, Zinc, etc. this is where science need to be applied. No need to focus our science on medieval phosphorus control.
"Because regular pigs do a poor job of digesting phytate phosphorous much of it comes out in their manure."
As opposed to staying in the pig? Are these pigs going to have phosphorous levels sufficient to detonate?
would they put firefly gene to spark ignition or some heat trigger gene
The kinds of genetic modifications being made in the lab would NEVER happen in nature though – because they are taking genes from one species and putting them into another. That is why these organisms are called "transgenic." So, it's not just that we are modifying the genetics – which, yes, we've been doing with artificial breeding for centuries and nature has done with natural selection forever – it's that WE are now moving into uncharted territory and have no idea what the consequences might be.
It amuses me that people will get all up in arms about a new flu vaccine and want tons of testing, but when offered a transgenic pig, they roll over. The pig you would be putting in your body probably several times a week. The flu vaccine only once. NOW which one do you want extensive testing on?
Scientists added DNA from E. coli bacteria and from a mouse to a Yorkshire pig’s embryo to create the Enviropig. The E.coli bacteria gene allows the pig to digest plant phosphate, by allowing the pig to produce an enzyme called phytase in its saliva. The mouse gene acts to accelerate the process
Thank God who forbid the human consumption of Pigs amongst us.
they can do the same to different animals that certain religion torture to death as well .... better way would be to have crops-farms that produce protein we like to eat.
Correction –
Plants-Crops can produce exactly the kind of protein we need and the taste we need. We can have PROTEIN FARMS.
All those meat advocates who say meat is must, then go in wild and hunt for food with sword and knife, live in jungle, why be a consumer of couch.
For those civilized enough,
WE CAN GET EXACTLY the kind of PROTEIN we need without this massive industrialized killing machine and slaughter houses for animals.
Hunting to control population number is a quite a different thing. Infact, to control population of cougars, we can catch them and remove the reproductive capacity of some of them.
I would also consider leaving it all for nature to control their numbers or to end some of them by reducing their food supply by various means ... ...
There are a lot of people that do hunt wild game for food and I have no problem with that. Wild game when heards are managed properly maintain the herd at healthy levels. Man's encroachment through development takes away the naturla home of wild life. Many animals ( deer, cougars, bear, coyotes, etc) have adapted to living among humans because food from trash is readily available. Because of the overdevelopment of wildlife habitat many natural predators are driven out. This create populaiton explosions. Attempting to catch and neuter wild life for population control although admiraable is unrealistic.
Hunting wild animals for food, I have no problem with and when herd management is properly applied there is very little exposure to sick animals. When wild game meat is properly cleaned and prepared there is litle exporse to "virus and bactieria". Wild game is also healthier becuase of it's very low fat count. Unlike the commercialy raised meat we consume that is loaded with antibiotics and growth hormones. Not to mention the increased recalls of contaminated meat in the past couple years.
So having a choice I would and have hunted for food as well as eaten wild game.
Plants-Crops can produce exactly the kind of protein we need and the taste we need. We can have PROTEIN FARMS.
All those meat advocates who say meat is must, then go in wild and hunt for food with sword and knife, live in jungle, why be a consumer of couch.
For those civilized enough,
WE CAN GET EXACTLY the kind of PROTEIN we need without this massive industrialized killing machine and slaughter houses for animals.
Hunting to control population number is a quite a different thing. Infact, to control population of cougars, we can catch them and remove the reproductive capacity of some of them.
I would also consider leaving it all for nature to control their numbers or to end some of them by reducing their food supply by various means ... ...
Manure is only ONE of a myriad of issues with how we come by our meat in the developed world. The way the animals are raised, the amount of grain and water it takes to raise them, the fuels used to process them. Those of us who eat meat (I am one) need to make conscious decisions to buy our meat from local farmers that do not do concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs) which create the majority of the pollution, resource use, and animal cruelty associated with meat consumption. Does it cost more? Yes, but the point is that you are now paying for the TRUE COST of what it takes to put meat on your table instead of passing these costs (as externalities) onto the taxpayer in the form of subsidies to keep food prices low at the cost of the animals' welbeing and the environment.
In south africa,in certain places, the consumers pay more for game meat, this meat is from wild and said to control the excess population of certain animals. Though this meat needs to be heated for lot longer to remove virus and bacteria.
better way would be to have crops-farms that produce protein we like to eat and let nature control the excess population, we just find way to conserve those who can go extinct.
All those meat advocates who say meat is must, then go in wild and hunt for food with sword and knife, live in jungle, why be a consumer of couch.
For those civilized enough,
WE CAN GET EXACTLY the kind of PROTEIN we need with this massive industrialized killing machine and slaughter houses for animals.
Hunting to control population number is a quite a different thing. Infact, to control population of cougars, we can catch them and remove the reproductive capacity of some of them.
I would also consider leaving it all for nature to control their numbers or to end some of them by reducing their food supply by various means ... ...
CORRECTION –
with this massive = without this massive
Please CNN, check your spelling, the nutrient is spelled phosphorus not phosphorous.
you should explain why smarty pants...:)
I would eat GM pig and have no reservation. Because it is the same pig as "normal". If any of guys who posted above understood a bit in genetics, they would conclude that any creature in the world is GM, but it took thousands of years to establish the mutation as a trait. Here we just saving ourselves some time :)
Such nonsense masquerading as intelligence. Animals ARE meat. If it's wrong for us to eat them because they might have "feelings," then we must immediately take every effort to see that cougars, eagles, grizzly bears, etc, stop hurting the feelings of these poor helpless "children." Otherwise, you're all just being hypocritical. If you feel healthier being a vegetarian, vegan, bark-eater, whatever, then fine–enjoy yourself. But get off your moral high horses and stop trying to shame others into seeing things your way. Does your happiness really depend on having that much control over other people's diet?
Same goes for the whole ridiculous GM foods debate. Animals and plants have been doing their own genetic modifications ever since the first brown amoeba thought a green amoeba looked like a hot date. It's called selective breeding, people. GM technologies can save this planet and feed a lot of hungry people if a handful of self-important half-educated busybodies will zip it and get out of the way.
WE CAN GET EXACTLY the kind of PROTEIN we need with this massive industrialized killing machine and slaughter houses for animals.
Hunting is a quite a different thing. Infact, to control population of cougars, we can catch them and remove their reproductive capacity. I would also consider leaving it for nature to control their numbers or to end some of them by reducing their food supply by various means ... ...
CORRECTION –
with this massive = without this massive
Not to mention that insects provide more protien pound for pound than beef, pork, chicken, fish, etc..... And we have an abundant supply.
And yes in some cultures eating bugs is normal.
Selective breeding is very very different from Genetic Engineering. Genetic Engineering isn't innocent change like evolution is. Selective breeding only involves inviting nature to do what it can and would do on it's own terms. Genetic Engineering of these pigs involves splicing in bacteria and genes from mice. You could never ever achieve that through selective breeding, cross pollination etc.. And I think I'm right in thinking that nature doesn't permit the cross breeding of pigs and mice for a very good reason. If anything could mate with anything – we end up with a contorted-mutated jumble phuck. Which is what we will have once thing modification of animal things get to be the norm.
Something else to consider is that human beings have evolved alongside all other things on earth (including our digestive system). From this one can rightfully suppose that our biology is very finely tuned to the natural processes of evolution -including the time it takes over multiple generations to complete (a usually very subtle) change.
It is very reasonable to expect unwanted reactions to heavily modified foods. It hasn't been publicly demonstrated yet that the rise in extreme allergic reactions, for example, is the result of GMO consumption ... but it will in time.
Our God in heaven gave more intelligence to humans than the Tiger and Lions !!! And we are throwing it away,
if we want, we can have PLANTS produce the needed Protein for us.
It is not big deal for GENETIC engineering.
TRUTH – PIG OR COW OR DOG, Animals are like CHILDREN, very unknowing, very much trusting of us.
We need to Just get off this science for the SADIST slaughter happy consumer and industry , let these animal be free again in the Forest.
I wonder if God has created all these natural bounties (plants and animals) primarily for Man to eat, or consume. It seems so after reading bible, but it's not clear 'EVERY' and 'EAT' are meant, or perhaps He allowed us to have choices about what to grow and eat; in fact, every of our decisions are about individual perception and choices, depending on each nation and its culture.. However i believe that's not meant to be; i don't think likewise that we may consume any natural resources, and reach to the point that 'genetical engineering' is not a choice, but a MUST. As human population grows and available natural resources become further scarce, human race will have to more rely on science and technology (like this one) to meet demand and supply; at certain point far in the future, we'd be left nothing but a pill, a dietary purpose of course, to meet our nutritional requirement.. That can be ok at that point, but at this point, I don't believe that's what's meant to be for human living, and when people start to think it's time to eat monkeys and gorillas, please don't count me in!
God gave more intelligence to humans than the Tiger and Lions !!! And we are throwing it away,
if we want, we can have PLANTS produce the needed Protein for us.
It is not big deal for GENETIC engineering.
TRUTH – PIG OR COW OR DOG, Animals are like CHILDREN, very unknowing, very much trusting of us.
We need to Just get off this science for the SADIST slaughter happy consumer and industry , let these animal be free again in the Forest.
Seems once again sc-fi become reality. Welcome to The Island of Doctor Moreau......
TRUTH – PIG OR COW OR DOG, Animals are like CHILDREN, very unknowing, very much trusting of us.
if we want, we can have PLANTS produce the needed Protein for us.
It is not big deal for GENETIC engineering. Just get off this SADIST science, let these animal be free again in the Forest.
Are you kdding?? There's no possible way to test the safety and all the billions of possible interactive side effects of genetically modified food. All this for a measly cost savings of <$1 a pig? What about the huge future costs of unpredictable genetic diseases? This is sub-optimizatiuon at its industrial finest. Oh pig crap!!
You don't really "get" biology do you?
We eat genes every day, it doesn't get directly incorporated into our own genome. It doesn't matter where the pigs genetic material came from, its not going to cause genetic diseases in humans any more than a normal pig.
To the vegans out there....growing crops and reaping the harvest... your still consuming living organisms...how many plants are genetically modified? Can't have it both ways.
That's what persnickety people always say. Veganism is against animal products not plant. So unless plants are animals there is no double standard involved. Realistically if all Vegans and Omnivors chose to eat ethically (to do the least damage to the environment and the item consumed) we would have a very different food industry. That would be much better than trying to figure out genetic manipulations that minimize the negative effects of our bad food production chioces.
Vegans prey upon lifeforms who cannot run, hide or fight.
Vegans prey upon the truly defenseless.
What chance does a pig have to fight? Penned up from birth.
Meat eaters prey upon organisms with thought and desires not to be lead to slaughter.
Organisms that feel pain. Plants don't have that same level of consciousness.
Why wouldn't EPA regulate hog farmers using manure as fertilizers in environmentally sensitive areas like marsh$ estuaries, or where watershed is located, so that it doesn't contaminate our water resources, if it's the major reason of concern why they want to breed genetically engineered pigs, other than demand and supply aspect? So they're trying to solve this the other way around, saying "ok our hogs produce 50% less plant phosphorous, so we'll continue to use its manure as fertilizer and should be ok to the environment..
Yeah Conrad got a Doctorate from MIT, but what is the Doctorate in? Trusting or claiming that "Nature" is always right, or that "Nature" is infallible is one of the things I would expect from someone with little or no education so I have to wonder just what you were studying, or if the diploma was Photo shopped. Nature gave us the infallible HIV, Bubonic Plague, Tetanus, Dysentery, Small Pox, etc. Those terrible scientists that have/are trying to stop things like that should all just quit trying because NATURE is always right? Idijit.
Rem,
My PhD is legitimate, but that is not the point ... except that I am still paying for it, but I digress ....
I understand your argument that since nature brought about HIV that nature isn't always 'right'. But that immediately begs the question 'what is right?'. Although it is hard to imagine, nature doesn't work exclusively with human interest in mind. You might say that nature isn't compassionate because it doesn't take our individual concerns into account in its overall working. However, the overall system within which nature functions is exactly what has permitted us to exist at all. It appears that viruses and death are a necessary part of the proper functioning and continuation of life on earth. Nature didn't invent HIV because it is evil or wrong, but because it serves a larger purpose. When there is a shortage of food for animals, the animal populations die off. This is one mechanism by which nature keeps populations in check. You might say well, we're smarter and we can circumvent that. Maybe so, but we are only looking at it from a very small perspective. Sure we can 'outsmart' nature and do what we've been doing and live longer... with intense destructive farming practices etc ... but it's not as though we can do that without paying a huge price. Some of us are living longer, but at what cost to the planet and all other species? ... In fact, many humans pay a huge price for these practices now. There is such massive overpopulation today that many people don't have regular access to drinking water, medicine, food. I could go on for hours and write thousands of pages of data regarding starvation and disease and suffering.
We have overcome some disease, live longer and thus massively overpopulate, we eliminate coral reefs, forests, empty the ocean of fish and fill it with plastic. Many will say that we have a 'right' to do this because we are the 'smarter' species ... survival of the fittest and so on – but if we destroy the very system by which we were created we destroy our own lives too. Despite all the fantasy sci-fi movies we don't have another planet to live on and we don't understand well enough how this one came about to re-create it once we've phukt it up thoroughly. We just keep marching on arrogantly believing we can 'correct' whatever we mess up ... lets stir up the gene pool and worry about the consequences later. It's an irrational 'belief system' (I'll even say religion) and not founded on science, but on the false belief that our intelligence is THAT great and that we are infallable. We simply are not.
Nature on the other hand contains a profund wisdom and something so far beyond intelligence or genius that it is marvelous and awe inspiring. It gave us life. It continuously gives us everything that we need to have this incredible experience called life. And compassionately, it takes life when necessary to guarantee the spawn and continuation of more life. Nothing humans have done comes remotely close to the simplest expressions of life on earth. We just take it for granted and lost our ability to see ...
We are a society completely fascinated by science and infatuated with the belief that we are so smart we can solve anything with our technology etc.. For a long time I was caught up in that too. Something you have to understand is that even when you are in school studying science, you are thinking about where you will work and how you will pay the bills and support your family. Science and scientists aren't pure in their intentions – God knows I've seen this first hand. And a lot of the 'faith' we have in science is total propaganda – it serves big corporations very well to have you believe that science is the answer. And a lot of scientists aren't looking at the big picture and thinking about whats right for the earth or people or animals. They have an opportunity to do something in thier own field and make a lot of money ... it's not as if they are going to say ... well, no I'd rather have less money and be unknown and protect the spotted owl (some yes, but most no). The motivation behind much of science is pure selfish ego. Don't be confused ... the idea that all scientists work hard to save the world and that we can 'figure' everything out is delusional ...
I guess your PhD was in bullhockey.
So my concern boils down to these two questions: Is genetically modified salmon and pig safe for us to eat? Secondly, is this method ok to the environment, in comparison with the existent hog, or aqu farm harvst for pigs and slamons? Aqua bounty technology says genetically engineered salmons are almost identical, or hardly distinquishable to the wild, or farm grown ones, while some other critics say the safety hasn't been proven yet for human consumption, and also say even FDA hasn't found any basis to approve (or disapprove) its safety yet.. And perhaps these genetically modified salmons happpen to cut loose to the wild (somewhat accidentally) who knows if they'd mix with the wild salmon population, thus creating environmental hazard (in form of mutation, or change in their growing, or feeding habits)
So, i'd say, once they are out in market and someone shows no symptom of ill effect having sashimi of this GM salmon brand, then i'll feel it pretty safe to eat them..ah cooked ones (i forgot to mention this^^)
Go Nitrogen,
Evolution never makes giant leaps forward, it conservers what works. If a pig can digest more of the available food, it gets bigger and stronger and makes more pigs than others that don't. In a few thousand years you have genetically modified pigs that break down more of the phytate and no one whines about it. Let a scientist do it and all of the tree huggers jump up and scream we are all going to die or turn into 7 armed mutations. Try researching from actual science instead of going to the dot com sites that are set up by one side OR the other who only give half facts and innuendo. Does anyone else see the same thing being played out in our (U.S.) politics? Both sides use the same tactics as the greener than thou bunch, Only believe what we say, don't think for yourselves and what ever you do, don't do real research on the subject ( and you can throw most of the major religions in with this too).
Corporate science is to science as a whorehouse is to an art museum. I trust science to produce an increasingly accurate description of the universe over the generations. I do not trust the global agribusiness corporations to do honest science and honestly report the results. The petroleum industry employs an army of scientific hacks that produce scientific results on demand, "proving" that humankind has had absolutely no impact on earth's climate.
We have no idea what results were faked, what test animals were secretly destroyed, what truths are hidden, and what falsehoods are offered as the results of scientific study. Ask a CEO about the safety of his product is like asking Iran if it is developing nuclear weapons.
TerryfromWestTexas wrote: "Corporate science is to science as a whorehouse is to an art museum." That is a truly beautiful analogy. Awesome.
You would put more trust in a government accountable to nothing and nobody rather than
a corporation accountable to its customers and stockholders.
This line of logic is how many genocides occur. It is the belief that free enterprise is evil
yet the government can do no wrong.
Here, here!
My objections to the introduction of this poor pig into the food chain. I personally won't eat it because I'm vegetarian. The rest of you will because it will not be labeled at "Genetically Modified Pork." It will be labeled as "Farmer Jones Tasty Bacon." My objection is to the trustworthiness of global agribusiness corporations.
What we have learned from Exxon, Enron, HP, ADM, BP, and other global corporations is that unless a saintly federal regulator is holding a gun to the head of the CEO, every corporation will lie, cheat, steal, cook the books, bribe legislators, lie to inspectors, bribe inspectors, lie to consumers, lie to investors, buy pretty girls for influential friends, bribe the county commissioner for a zoning variance, deliver cheap asphalt when high quality asphalt was called for in the contract, and never, never, never, never tell the truth about anything to any audience. They deliver one message to consumers, another to investors, another to government, another to competitors, and another to suppliers.
We have to forget that Libertarian/Ayn Rand/Gary Cooper romantic vision of the brilliant entrepreneur. It does not describe what we see happening in front of our eyes. We are so accustomed to corporate lying that we think it is unremarkable when the corporation always downplays problems. It never just tells the damn simple truth. They say the leak is only 5,000 gallons, knowing it is much more, but hoping to cover up the difference. They say there is no defect in the product, but finally they admit that a number of people have been killed and very reluctantly they order a recall. The makers of Motrin are in the headlines today because they tried to conceal product defects. Corporations admit the truth only when they are unable to cover up the reality.
So my questions to those who defend the introduction of frankenpigs are these. What test results were suppressed? What test animals were secretly destroyed? What "independent" scientists were chosen to test the product because of their willingness to produce desirable results? What inspectors were bribed? I don't know and we'll never know. All I know is this: no corporation can be trusted in any situation for any task. I oppose the introduction of new technology until we bring corporate technology under control.
I love science and I admire scientists. I dislike global corporations and I am in complete contempt of their leadership.
Corporate science is to science as a whorehouse is to an art museum.
I know the humble scientists that developed and tested these pigs. They are far from corporate tools. They truly had the benefit to the planet in mind when they went down this road. I am suspicious of big business too, but rest assured-these are good people trying to make a difference. The insidious side of large companies will be screwing the scientists and producers out of their fair share of the proceeds from such an important development. In China, where vegetarianism isn't likely to prevail soon, and where 50% of the pork is consumed, these animals can play an important role in solving the pollution problem.
I hope that all of you that are saying that genetic engineering is not natural and we are doing things that were not intended have never received an organ transplant, had an appendage sewn back on, or is on medicine that is keeping you alive because I am guessing when god put us here that he didn't intend for that either.
Interestly if they simply used selective breeding to produce this pig, nobody would have a problem with it. It would be considered "organic", although just another form of genetic engineering.
Thank you Conan. Apparently nature is more intelligent than we are, so if we naturally force two animals to mate and it has the desired traits, somehow it's more acceptable.
More zombie flick educated non-scientist drivel in this forum. GMOs are not the enemy. People who say "organic will save us all," are. Thomas Malthus was wrong only because food generation technology is always improving. Every single thing you put in your mouth is a GMO, even so called 'organic' foods. The only difference is that we know exactly what changes we want to make to genomes, and when we make that change we figure out if it's harmful to us and the environment. Ask people 10,000 years ago if they had that kind of discretion.
I write this not just to Nitrogen, but to all those who make the same rediculous argument -
The arrogance of 'scientists' is tiresome ... I can see you enjoy believing you are sooo smart, but I think I'll go ahead and trust the intelligence of nature to take care of itself. Nature isn't flawed, so called human intelligence is!
I trust natures process of 'genetic modification', previously called evolution far more than I trust some hot-shot pseudo scientist who wants to change the make up of animals to select for traits that benefit corporate pocket-books. The living system of this planet has been in existence for billions of years and has been undergoing slow profoundly subtle, complex changes without our 'help'. All living things are carefully interconnected in ways we can't predict. In fact, nature was intelligent enough to bring us into existence long before we had a shred of understanding about the workings of our very own human form. We still don't understand it and probably never will. Sure, we can poke at things and go 'oooh look what happens when I move things around' – but make NO mistake we are not responsible for the creation of any of it!
Not wanting to mess with the inherent intelligence of nature isn't ignorance, it's wisdom.
True ignorance is believing that you can alter a subtle and complex system without dire consequnces. We simply don't know the outcome – we simply are not THAT smart.
And if you are honest the real 'fear' thats driving all of this is fear of having to go without. Many people don't want to move to a way of living that actually works because it means giving up many current forms of indulgence. Lets just be honest ok – this isn't about anything other than selfishness and indulgence and pursuit of pleasure.
We tinker at our own peril. It is sheer arrogance and greed that drives these efforts. We know that nature works cleanly and beautifully and that humans create filth and destruction. You can talk all you want about making the changes 'we want' to living oranisms, but we really have no idea the consequences. We already know that human intervention in the (farming) way plants grow has essentially killed nearly all coral reefs in the oceans – once enormous and teeming with life – decimated forests, created enomous dead zones, driven countless animals to extinction, sullied our own drinking water and air, caused mutations, cancer, etc... the list goes on and it has all be 'scientifically' documented and proven.
Imagine the cluster phuk we will create of this world once the floodgate is open to rampant GMO and every semi-scientist out there wants to recreate things to 'make the changes he/she wants'. We need to nip this bad idea in the bud!
Oh and by the way, I'm not much into zombie flicks ... I never watch them, but i did get my PhD from MIT which is well regarded in the scientific community.
And before you go into a spew about vaccinations and anti-bioticts and all the wonderful things science has done for us and all the GM plants we already eat etc ... None of it is justification for more of a bad idea. Nature has checks and balances. We want to remove those checks and balances for our own desire to live beyond our natural life-span,and to 'enjoy' an unnatural accumulation of resources, but we can already see the writing on the wall – our home (earth) can't and won't support it indefinitely. We can struggle and try to force it into being what we want, but we are wreaking a fast approaching disaster ... I feel sorry for our children ...
Conrad,
You got a PhD from MIT and I congratulate you for it. I have met many PhD's over the years and I will say one thing about them. They are pretty smart in one area of study and generally they are total morons in pretty much every other area and possess very little common sense. You only back up that hypotheses. If you would ever like to be educated on how the farming industry works I invite you to Iowa and I will show you that the practices that we use are very modern. The land is what we make or living off of and if we destroy it, not only are we screwed but you are too.
You are clearly religious about some "nature" entity and it's so-called "intelligence". This is B.S. The biome would just as soon see you go extinct. The fact is we have been engineering the planet since we crawled out of the ooze and took our first mouthful . You change the ecosystem everytime you crap in the woods. And yes, you engineer the genome of innumerable organisms everytime you wipe your rear end. Domestication of plants and animals has already happened, we have been sloppily and slowly engineering genomes to feed our offspring ever since. Now we can do it faster and more precisely. If you object, might I suggest self erradication, or at the very least sterilization, your sloppy biome scrambling is getting in the way of my own.
Scott,
You are clearly religious about 'science' and characteristically selfish and ego motivated. I guess you think this whole wide planet was created just for YOU (i capitalize to get across the proper sense of importance).
However, when we use the bathroom we don't change anything in the biosystem (except to the extent that we've eaten GMOs) because we were created by it. We were created to fit and function quite perfectly within the natural workings of earth – which is literally our biological 'mother'. We can cultivate the fantasy that we are responsible for it all and that earth exists for us, but the truth is we are a product of the earth and not the other way around.
That we exist is quite incredible when you think about it ... but it has nothing to do with our efforts.
The only thing that is "messy" is the false belief that we are somehow supposed to get whatever we want and at whatever cost. The ego is simply too large to see that nature is perfect and doesn't need to change to satisfy our inflamed sense of entitlement.
And by the way, no matter what you do or how big you let your ego swell .... one day you WILL die.
Interesting how a centuries old argument is written verbatim by you! I find it astounding! It is literally the verbatim argument against antibiotics, vaccination, the damming of rivers, flight and space travel.
I'm guessing your PhD is in theology, as it is the standard theological argument against man's "playing God".
So, it's all God's plan to have flatulent pings that also happen to soil the environment with many tons of phosphorus. After all, God intended phytoplankton blooms! It helps keep our population at manageable levels!
The same can be said of permitting floods and famine. And disease keeps our population level at God's planned level.
And the earth is flat too.
Conrad, you are obviously more knowledgeable than 90% of other writer who are 90% more knowledgeable than the general population simply because they read the news, and the general American population is probably 90% more intelligent than the tea baggers LOL! So you are wise and probably right, however, what can we do? Humans seem to be an error of nature, somewhere along the way, I think WE were a scientific experiment that has gone awry. But since we are stuck here being human, we must live and die as humans. If you look at the big picture, Earth is a perfect system but it has a virus called humans that is speading and destroying it. So until we all dissappear, this Earth will be sick. It sounds gloomy, but it is just logical.
juliemarie, why don't you help us all out then and volunteer to go first.
Juliemarie,
What we can do is what nobody wants to do ... radically scale back. I think people argue in favor of science without limits because we as humans are fundamentally afraid to accept that we must die and so we vainly seek a means to secure that which cannot be secured. But in order for life to continue to unfold one generation aftre the next that is exactly what must and will happen. In the meantime – all we can do is live very simply and try more or less to live in accordance with the original functioning of nature.
To the others who think I got my PhD in theology ... nice try but I don't think MIT even has a theology dept. – would have to go to Harvard for that. If you look hard at the empirical truths found in nature and our failed experiments in it you would ultimately agree that the less we corrupt nature the better it is for all concerned. With enough true investigation it becomes an obvious fact. My arguments have nothing to do with God ... or belief ... just clean observation. Humans don't have a good track record when it comes to our science and its application. We've caused far farm more harm that good.
I know its hard to imagine a scientific argument against the application of science, but basically that is what I offer.
Your PhD from MIT doesn't mean squat in my profession. I'll trump your PhD with mine from OSU with a major in biotech. You seem to have been absent from class when they taught that man is part of the environment. We have been genetically altering our foods since the dawn of civilization. The only thing that has changed recently are the tools we use to make those alterations.
Conrad, while I don't disagree with you necessarily, MIT hasn't had a food and nutrition science department for about 20 years. And the biology department is entirely micro.
So what exactly is your degree in, and how does it bear on this discussion?
In Africa most food is grown organically. Would you rather convert to organic farming and live
the short yet exciting life of the average African or continue to embrace advanced farming technology.
The life expectancy in Africa isn't low due to having to work hard to farm organically. I'm sure the American Amish farm organically. The Africans have Poor diet, poor disease control, rampant HIV/AIDS, poverty itself. Poor lifestyle choices such as smoking and alcohol consumption, high infant mortality, poor medical care, violence and accidents etc.
The American Amish DO NOT farm organically. They don't use tractors, necessarily, but they've got no problem with chemicals.
The arguments against GMOs that have been given here are all valid. Well, except the "intelligence of nature" bit. I agree Conrad, a better option would be to scale back. Seven billion mouths to feed is putting a big strain on the food web. But the thing is, to have an advanced civilization we need that many people because of increased efficiency in food production at our level of food technology. In ancient Rome, up to 80% of all people worked in the food industry. We could scale back to those levels and grow all our food organically, but it would further divide the populace into agrarian and educated individuals. But that's where GMOs come in. If we continue to advance our food technologies, and also scale back the population (in some globally accepted, organized, and humane way), we could have a tiny fraction of the population involved in food, and the rest devoted to less vitally necessary causes like science. That way, we have less impact on the Earth both by sheer number of humans, and by only eating what we grow efficiently, leaving the 'organic' stuff for the rest of our planet's less sentient creatures that aren't members of a race that brought the food issue on themselves. Reliable food production is one of the most important things to a thriving civilization, and as JEM pointed out, unless we want to live like Africans or Ancient Romans, GMOs are the only way to go.
why do i get the feeling you work for one of these biotech companies?
Maybe we should stop feeding them corn and "hog feed" and let them eat grass and dirt like they are supposed to. If we don't have enough resources to feed them on what they were meant to eat then maybe we should not farm so many pigs... I agree with the comment that pig farming needs to change... Why does it seem like we try to solve our problems by doing something so unnatural when we could look at the bigger picture. Our diets have more than the required meat group and we respond by farming more livestock, we can't feed livestock with what it was meant to eat then we feed it something else (Monsanto Corn and feed), their byproduct is bad for the environment because they cant digest what we feed them so we ruin our environment and modify them genetically... What are we going to do with the next problem as a result of genetic modifications?
Why don't we simply solve the problem by raising pigs the way they were meant to be raised...
Pigs are omnivores. Grass doesn't cut it.
Pigs are omnivores. Given a choice, they prefer .... meat.
Pigs are not designed to eat dirt, and they don't digest grasses very well. They have a monogastric stomach like humans, not a ruminant stomach like cattle.
Screw this. I'd never knowingly eat this pig! Ever.
china is same.....my god!don't make the transgenic please~
Small pork farmers don't have money to throw at gene research - this is all about giant corporations squeezing out a higher profit margin for less cost which makes it almost impossible for the small farmer to make decent cash. Basically it's going to be up to consumers the insist on product labeling and support "not GM" farmers and smaller organic producers. Those who want to eat Gentically Modified products can - but we need to have a choice - not prevent consumers from choosing like they did with mad-cow disease where the US government forbids producers who want to pay more per cow and have it tested and label the packaging from doing so.
@Vince – except one problem, the FDA REFUSES to allow the labeling of our food that would identify which are Genecicaly Modified. Take the choice away from the consumer. It's a fact that people want to make the choice of what foods they want to put on the dinner table for their families. IFGM food is so safe than allow it to be labled.
After all the FDA has a great track record of protecting the American people from dangerous products and taking the "word" of the manufacturer that it is safe.
Why don't we quit feeding the pigs Monsanto corn full of indigestible phosphorus? Think outside the box and realize that indigestible phosphorus coming through the "out" end of a pig came first through the "in." Now they want to make a pig that can actually uptake this previously indigestible substance and with its enhanced ability to retain the phosphorus feed it to humans?! No.
The indigestible phosphorous is naturally occurring in all plants. If you can figure out a way to lower the phosphorus content of plants without stunting their growth, you could be a millionaire.
That's stupid. Hog manure is extremely rich in nutrients used for farm fertilizer. Greener livestock? How about not feeding livestock all the hormone filled crap that people do? How about feeding them stuff that doesn't make 10 year-old girls and boys mature faster than they did decades ago?
You're missing the point. The gene inserted probably allows for the expression of a protein that is specific for phytate breakdown. This allows the phosphorous to be utilized in the pig instead of being excreted as waste. The only modification to this pigs manure is a lower phosphorous content. The content of manure now is so rich in phosphorous that the plants do not use it all and, hence, runoff.
However I agree with watching what we put into them in the first place.
The problem with that argument is that farmers are regulating how much manure is put on the farm ground to minimize run off. Fertilizer prices have went up so much that manure is no longer a waste product. There is real value and farmers send samples of it to labs to have it analyzed so it will be applied appropriately.
How abouth made the pig(or other farm animals) more powerfull or more health so farmers don't need to gave livestock antibiotics or groth hormons and other med's to keep them health..Animal ates the hormonal food/med's antibioticks..People ate that animal..Peaople gets all the hormons and antibioticks,med's..So people need s a antibiotics for other problems,antibiotick humans take not working..??!!??!!??!!!
EXACTLY! someone who thinks, we don't need green pig chit, we need pigs with less garbage pumped in them that is harming us and our children. give it a few more years, all the growing cancer will be proven to be from these hormones and chemicals pumped into our meats too. the nutrients in the pig crap if vital to the environment and farming. this is what happens when man thinks they can improve Gods creations. you can't improve it. it was made that way for a reason. even if you don't believe in God, look at the earth since things have been altered because man feels his science is better than what has kept the earth functioning since wayyyy before we ever were thought of. look at all the extinct animals and the effect that is having on us, the environment and the earth. its time to leave nature alone! its not the pig chit, its the bat chit for brains scientists that need to stop and think!
Sunlight causes cancer as well; how about you do us all a favor and never show your face in the light of day again?
Its people like you who don't agree with education and the advances of science
If god didn't want us to be educated we wouldn't have evolved into intelligent beings with brains that could come up with this stuff. Education is necessary. It's the reason you have a roof over your head and a car to drive! Uneducated people did not come up with that stuff. You say you don't think science should be allowed, but you'll be whistling a different tune if someone you know (hopefully this doesn't happen) comes down with some horrible disease, but you'll be wishing there was a cure for it. Science is important, even if you don't agree with a genetically modified animal...A word of advice...if you don't like it or agree with it, don't buy it!
Barbara, what is also natural is DEATH and yet you probably don't have a problem with most humans getting around that. Most babies born to all species die pretty quickly so those species don't have population explosions. When populations do explode, they eat all their food supply and then almost all of them starve. We manipulate our food to stave off our own death and keep as many babies alive as possible. We then need to exercise birth control if we want to use "all natural" food and farming practices. Which is humanity capable of? Would you rather prevent births/conception or let the masses starve with inefficient organic farming?
100 years ago we didn't worry about cancer like we do now because most of us died of other things before we had a chance for cancer to form. Advanced farming allows more of us to live into our 80's and die of cancer instead of other diseases.
mOtOrmOuth has it ever occurred to you that in earlier days pigs were subject to all kinds of deceases when they were fed scraps and every thing what looked like it resembled eatable.
Think about it. the past was ok then, but today we need something different, or there would be nothing at all to eat.
I totally agree. Both USA and Canada pump up pigs with growth hormones weeks before slaughter in order to maximize yield. These hormones are banned in Europe as they are known agents for causing congenital heart disease.
It's true, pigs are incapable of producing waste. Everything, even the undigested sulfur, can be highly useful. What is wasteful are the farming techniques. It seems to be much easier for a human to change a pig than for a human to change themselves. Arguing over whether or not it is safe completely misses the larger issue and shouldn't even be brought up.
could they have put up an even more depressing picture of that pig .. it almost makes me want to be a veggie :'(
Good! Factory farmed pigs live lives of misery. Especially the breeding sows. Please research it and consider boycotting pork. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs. We love our pets, yet treat these animals as walking bacon. Why?
Tasty, tasty, bacon...
Because they taste good with eggs and toast.
@YouHadMe and pumpernickel – Real original, there. Unfortunately, our greedy taste buds don't trump another being's right to live. When are humans going to get their heads out of their asses and realize that though we might think we are so much more than advanced than other creatures out, we are actually the only ones that are knowingly savage – and are not only okay with it, but actively choose to continue to do it?
This article is only one more representation of our God complex as a species – here, let's create a living being just to destroy it. So messed up.
Because those animals have fallen down to nothing but meats or for other uses of our advantages and people became no numb about issues of animal abuse, or consumption..for nutritional benefit! It also reflects our eating habit (becoming more meat-oriented despite all these studies advising more veggie diet..) and thru media, we see the Japanese hunting whales and dolphins, Koreans breeding puddles(eventually dogs), Chinese hunting bears, other endangered animals, Thai for snakes all for human consumption: At least for this reason, People feel, "OK, they even eat these pets and animals (endangered), so why not pig'n chicken'n cows? And feel better in their conscience~
@Chae Hun Cho – Many cultures eat different plants and animals for food. Depending on your culture and country you may be living in can determine if an animal is considered a pet or food. You may not agree but that is your choice.
The TRUTH – PIG OR COW OR DOG, Animals are like CHILDREN, very unknowing, very much trusting of us.
if we want, we can have PLANTS produce the needed Protein for us.
It is not big deal for GENETIC engineering. Just get off this SADIST science, let these animal be free again in the Forest.
Predator. look it up. we farm them so we don't wipe them out. pigs are for eating. your veggie lifestyle is a luxury that doesn't hold up under economic or food supply duress.
I've tried being vegetarian. It made me unhappy, and I was immediately happy again once I restarted eating meat.
We're partially carnivorous, which, during our evolution, let our brains grow so big. Maybe someday we'll find what we need elsewhere, but until that technology is reached, pass the bacon.
It's the fat. Everybody needs it.
pumpernickel...would you eat a dog if it tasted good?
because bacon taists good and theres pig in alot more thing then you think besides just food
Veggie – you are asking Americans to 'research' pigs??? They are too worried about the economy, immigration, poverty in the US of A, gay rights, Iraq opps I mean Afghanistan, jobs, mosques on the 9-11 site, whether Obama is an actual citzen, whether Sarah Palin actually passed high school. You are asking too much of them right now. And oh by the way I didn't even mention health care, ya know that one that the GOP ditto'd on what I just said – duh – we're too busy for that right now. So – simply translated – although you are well intentioned – nobody really gives a crap -(pardon the pun) – except people that can multi-task. And – by the way the thoughts of a mutinant pig that doesn't smell like ammonia is a good thing.
I completely agree. We treat pigs too badly in factory farms just to maximize profit and lower costs. But it's an illusion of lowering costs. Even if I forget the environmental impact of factory farms, pigs filled with growth hormones have adverse effect on human health and even cause congenital diseases. I am vegetarian and I think enviropig is a crappy idea. It will promote further abuse of these gentle and intelligent animals. Shame on Canada (i am a Canadian) for funding such a non-ethical research. As someone rightly said, we should mend hog-farming methods rather than genetically modify an animal to produce cleaner poop. Simply outrageous and unethical.
..maybe because they are?
All you "Veggie People" who cry out on how inhumane humans are and that we shouldn't eat "living beings" are all hypocrites.. Choosing to eat plants is just as bad as choosing to eat animals..just because plants can't express pain doesn't make them any less alive or have less rights to live and exist. Plant based life has been around a lot longer than animals..The fact of the matter is "we must eat", that is what nature intended, whether is animal or plant. Our bodies tell us to eat meat (Look at our teeth), they also tell us we can eat plants; either one is "OK" with nature. If you don't want to eat living creatures then eat ones that either die naturally or don't eat at all.. but maybe..in time.. we will be able to create food completely in the lab atom by atom non-living cell by non-living cell..and that tastes amazing..until then grab your gun or chainsaw and kill something that is alive..why don't ya.
@The Ugly Truth: I am a vegetarian not because I think meat is cruel. I am a vegetarian because of the unnecessary animal abuse that goes in factory farms to maximize profit. You may argue that factory farms are needed to lower costs. But lowering the costs is an illusion as hormone filled animals can never be good for human consumption and are bound to have adverse effect on human health.
@(all vegetarian types) Ok, so a couple of jerks are cruel to animals. It happens, some people are sick. It is still better than the alternative. Have you ever heard an animal scream as it is eaten alive by a pack of Lions? Or seen the poor animal still struggling after a wolf has torn two legs and it's intestines out? Remember, if we don't eat it then something else will and that something else has no qualms with a cruel and painful death where MOST humans do.
You are right, and this story is beyond sad...
It's a pig, The simple fact that pig wasn't covered in his own shit tells us it already has had a better life than most pigs.
@veggie: I often look at my dogs and find myself drooling, thinking of drowning the crispy deep fried dog meat in a Nutella based BBQ sauce. Delicious! My daughter can usually tell what I'm thinking, and demands that I real it in, and to back off (it's so cute when she does that; she's only 10). The dogs usually go and hide in the other room.
Trubob – I'm not a vegetarian, but the facts are the facts: a vegetarian lifestyle isn't a luxury. Under economic or food supply duress, our best option would be to suspend meat production and grow more crops. Pro-veggie or not, every single food researcher will come to the same conclusion: vegetarian diet is FAR more sustainable.
Awww, yeah that's really sad. Hey check this out: http://www.mercyforanimals.org/pigs/
That Pig doesn't look depressed, it looks delicious. Im going to go home today after work and cook up some bacon!
Soooo...the "pollutants" stay inside the pig? I'm not familiar with how phosphorus breaks down inside the body of an animal, but this just doesn't sound (forgive the pun) kosher.