 August 31st, 2010
05:00 PM ET
5@5 is a daily, food-related list from chefs, writers, political pundits, musicians, actors, and all manner of opinionated people from around the globe. In the era of the cash-strapped diner, more people than ever are clipping coupons and hungrily turning toward online deals in order to eat and drink for less. Former Yahoo! food editor Maggie Nemser is the founder of BlackboardEats.com - a website that dishes out, via its website and an e-mail newsletter, such deals for restaurants in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Now, she's here to offer up a few ground rules on using a dinner discount - without coming off like cheapskate. Words to the wise from the dealmakers: Maggie Nemser 2. Give it up immediately... 3. Ditch the diva 4. Do the math 5. Y'all come back now, y'hear? Is there someone you'd like to see in the hot seat? Let us know in the comments below and if we agree, we'll do our best to chase 'em down. |
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We featured an in depth review of BlackboardEats here: http://www.trendslate.com/2010/11/03/blackboardeats-continues-to-cater-to-foodies/
After reading through the comments, I'm quite shocked at how the pay system works for restaurant staff in the USA. In Britain, all 'servers' get minimal wage and any tip goes on top of that. How tips are shared out between employees is varied, for example some go straight to the waiter and some are split between all waiting staff.
Also, five to ten percent is me and my friends usual if we ever eat out, though is often approximate. I do know of places that do now include a 'service charge' on the bill, although it is possible to ask to have this removed (although dreadfully frowned upon) and notice it does not get called a tip. These are more expensive places though more often than not.
The fact of the matter is, as an unemployed teenager between college and university if we do eat out it is a treat and we do tend to sit and chat and gossip over our meal, regardless of the prices of our meal. If we wanted to do the same sort of meals at a house, it would require us to spend this time on making individual meals and trickier dishes. By going to a restaurant we are paying both for the place to sit and for not having to prepare the wide range of food, and we shall sit there and enjoy it! I assume that the restaurant does not expect a tip from four or five teen girls, and yet they are evidently happy to have our service still.
At all the comments snarking about coupon users – some people choose to save money but this doesn't make them cheap, and some people do not have money to throw at people, even if they have done these people do their job well. The coupon may be providing them with the means to take a break from their usual lives and allowing them an evening out. Just because they cannot afford to give away more does not mean they wouldn't like to, and that they do not deserve to eat outside of their our home.
Here Here for Anonymous Coward! For the rest of you, please understand that tipping is voluntary. If you don't like what your customers give you in tips, find another line of work, because you are probably no good at it!
Even though several people have to deal with poor credit score, there might be occasions whenever you're searching for a way of raising your credit score rating quick. Although this definitely is possible for you to do, it is going to take some positive action on your component and perhaps even some constant action in order for issues to happen for the long term. If you just want to raise your credit score report a few numbers, nevertheless, there are some ways for you to be able to do this. Caution needs to be taken, however, so that you do not finish up lowering your credit score in the process. Why do I say this?
Being a server throughout my entire college career, I can relate to this argument. Here is my philosophy. Some people are born cheap, some people are born with generosity. My goal as a server is to make you have the best experience possible while I am taking care of you. If the check is 110 dollars, some people are going to tip 10, some will tip 20, some will tip in between. But, if my service was less than satisfactory, the $10 tipper may only tip 7, the $20 tipper may only tip 12 etc.
My point being, I try to to my best job in order for you to tip me 100% of what you normally would tip. In the end, I feel it all works out.
Also, if the restaurants started to pay us minimum wage, the savings wouldn't be passed on to the customer. The restaurants would have to hike up their prices for menu items, and you would no longer be able to go to your favorite restaurant as much anymore.
I tip generously everywhere I go because bad service doesn't necessarily mean crappy server. Sometimes people have bad days and not all customers are peachy. Guess what? Tip better consistently and you'll get better service. Servers at my favorite restaurants know that even though I only drink water (with lime) they will get rewarded for the demanding job they do (and guess what, they just automatically bring me my water and lime without me having to ask for it).
Also–if tipping the extra $3.75 required to up a tip from 15% to 20% on a $75 tab is truly a sticking point for you, then you shouldn't be spending $75 on a meal anyway. Go buy groceries and cook and clean for yourself.
Server – maybe you're not as good at faking it as you think... and that's why you get bad tips.
Groupon, Bloomspot, LivingSocial, BlackboardEats and the million others, simply represent an anonymous demographic of people who are looking for a bargain. Period. There is no magic there. If restaurants are going to spend this amount of money on this type of advertising, then retaining these bargain hunters as repeat customers has to be their long term goal. What else would they be hoping for? No matter what they try to sell you, that is where your marketing dollars are going. That can't sound very appetizing for any restaurant.
Nothing wrong with drinking water! It's the fastest way for MOST people to lose weight.
I think I'll just stay home and avoid all the hassle.
But Server, how many times have you included the tip in the total of the bill for a large party but kept silent when the diners didn't realize it and tipped a second time?
My current restaurant is the only one that has ever done auto-gratuity. If we have a party of five or more, we tell the manager at check time and they go explain the auto-gratuity rule to the customer.
I am a waitress (and unpaid intern) – not a liar. Thanks.
You didn't answer my question.
Interesting threads here. Regarding some of the comments here: I frequently use restaurant coupons and almost always have "just" water with my meal (at home, too). The times when my server received a sub-par tip were not because I'm a cheapskate who uses coupons and drinks just water, it was because the server gave me crappy service (perhaps stereotyping me as a cheapskate because I had a coupon and ordered water).
Decent service rates 20% of the pre-coupon total; if I get really good service it's more; if I make the server aware of the coupon before ordering and I get really good service the server is going to get the 20+% I'd normally give for good service PLUS some of what I'm saving with the coupon.
I go into a restaurant expecting to give at least a 20% tip; the service during the whole meal determines where it goes from there. I don't prejudge a server as a primadonna-ish wannabe actor based on how they greet me. Perhaps servers ought to reserve their spitting in the food and other low-life actions for people who do something offensive and not for those who merely order water and/or use a coupon.
For those who look for the tiniest little nitpicky complaint to dock a server on the tip, try eating at a restaurant where you get your food at the counter and haul it yourself. One or two slips by the server rates no reduction from 20+%, three or four means 20%, a whole string of them rates a tip reduction but ONLY if you also seek out the manager and let them know about your experience so the server knows why their tip got scrunched.
A few months back my family went to one of our favorite restaurants and the service provided by an obviously flustered server was laughably substandard. Near the end of the meal the manager came by to apologize, telling us that our server was new and was supposed to have fewer tables but they were shorthanded and she took the cost of the drinks off of our tab ($10 plus). In my mind, just the apology was enough to restore the tip, having put some of the server's actions (or lack thereof) in a different light. Needless to say, the server got 20% plus (on the whole tab before the reduction on the drinks) and we remain loyal customers of that restaurant.
I have waited tables on and off since I was in high school...it has been a while, but I use this rationale for how I tip: If the service is great, you get a tip of 20% or more. If the service is really bad, you may only see 5-10%. You chose the job, the job did not choose you. If you can't have a plesant demaeanor while doint your chosen profession, find something else to do.
When tipping, I also consider the quality of the food. Realizing and recognizing the servier does not prepare the food, I don't penalize them if the food is bad, I will take into consideration how they handled the situation. there have been ocassions where the food was so bad, I didn't have to pay for it, but my server was tipped on what the total bill would have been because they did provide exceptional service.
I used to be a waitress and never had a problem with ANYONE ordering water! It does not mean they are cheap it means they don't soda. I'm a runner and honestly water is a lot better for my body, plus i'm 7 months pregnant yet another reason I don't order soda. but its not because I am cheap.
you people need to get a life. Great article Maggie-
The major point in the article that people don't seem to already realize is that the tip should be based on the non-discounted price. The waitresses in the restaurants I frequent work pretty hard and I know they're not making that much – it's a shame to stiff them. I wish our restaurants were like those in France where the tip and tax is all in the listed price. If an item costs $20, it would make things simple if the whole experience cost us $20!
I bought a coupon yesterday from restaurant.com They offer gift certificates for discounted rates, We bought one that was 10 dollars, we received a gift certificate for 25. The stipulation was "you must spend $35 and a tip of 18%
We usually wind up spending about 20 dollars when we go out to this restaurant. Normally we get two entrees, waters and leave a tip. Because of the economy we are watching our pennies. Not cheap or frugal, just shopping smarter and in turn healthier. When we went out yeseterday, we wound up getting an app and each of us had a pina colada. That bumped our cost up to the 35. We tipped 20%. All in all this meal wound up costing us 27 dollars. So we paid 7 dollars extra for 2 drinks and an appetizer (plus we got slightly more expensive meals than normal). Not a way to save money, but it was a way to eat like the economy was booming again. I left more satisfied and only spend slightly more money than normal.
On another note, they do have an option to pay $4 and get a $10 gift certificate. tip 18% spend $20 are the rules on this one. Had we done this, we could have gotten our normal entrees and each had a soda. Our total cost would have been around $24 normally for this meal. With the gift certificate it would only cost us $18. Savings of $2 and each of us would get a soda.
Not a bad deal, though not great. I think it depends on what you want to eat, how much you want to eat, and if you think it's worth it to save only a few dollars.
My wife and I recently went to Carrabba's to use her birthday coupon for a free entrée that she received through email. Half way through our meal, she realized that she forgot her coupon. She told the manager her situation and he gave her the free meal without even checking to see her DOB on her license, which we offered. I was surprised! Carrabba's is one of our favorite restaurants and we will go back and also tell our friends of their excellent service. By the way, we didn't order water to drink, added a desert and tipped our waitress according to the meal cost before the free stuff.
They're right about telling the waiter/waitress up front about the coupon. Sometimes there's something not written on the coupon that the restaurant has a problem with. Say you get a discounted meal, but you can't substitute one of the sides and that particular thing isn't mentioned. Or the coupon meal might be slightly different than the meal on the menu. So you might order the meal by the same name on the menu, but the coupon version doesn't come with the soup.
If you order it normally and don't let them know about the coupon until just before the check, you run the risk of not being able to get the discount because you got something not included. Or you may have to fight for that discount, ruining the night for both you/your party, and the restaurant staff.
I don't use a lot of coupons at sit down restaurant, but I do use gift cards. I love these, and I have no problem using them, but I always make sure to tip on the full bill. Sometimes a little extra because I know the wait staff cringes whenever they see one. (Unless, of course, the service is really abysmal.)
I think deals, discounts and gift cards are a great way of getting new customers and rewarding regular customers.
One thing about coupons. I had a coupon for 50% off a second entree with the purchase of a full price entree at my favorite restaurant. When I go, I always order the same dish, Chicken Savoy, which I love. My husband came with me and ordered a regular entree. I presented the coupon BEFORE I ordered, and my meal was decidedly less that what I normally got. So there is something to say about when to present coupons!
Needless to say, I found another favorite restaurant.
I do find that interesting about the portion. At most restaurants the portions are controlled by the cooks and not the servers and the cooks only interest is getting the food out – not how much you are paying for it. They wouldn't even know you had a coupon and trust me typically servers don't have time to run to the kitchen and tell a cook you are paying with a coupon and to make your portion smaller. That's outlandish. I don't doubt your story – it just seems odd to me is all.
I have to comment on tipping. I would LOVE for this country to do away with it and pay the servers what they deserve. I know many servers who get $2.00 an hour and depend on their tips to live. My gripe is not against the servers–it's against the establishments who expect their customers to pay their staff.
A great story is about my best friend who was a server, a single mother with a 2 year old to raise and no child support coming in. She was making $1.85 an hour and needed her tips. Come New Years Eve, when her establishment was having a big bash at $160 per couple, and she was asked to work the party, did she get 15% of the $160 for each couple she served? She had 22 tables to wait on. Her boss gace her $75 for the entire night. So who gets the tips? And to boot, she got a tax statement from the boss stating that her sales were $3520, so she LOST money for the night.
Whenever I pay for a meal by credit card, I always write "CASH" in where the tip is and give my tip in cash, as any tips put on the credit card slip are subject to the same fees as the business is.
Don't take this the wrong way, but it sounds like your friend isn't very smart. For all of the people saying that servers make sub-$3.00 an hour wage, that's true, but if they're tips do not put them above minimum wage for the total hours in a pay period, the employer is required to make up the short fall. If your friend did work that party and didn't get minimum wage for the day, then they can sue the employer.
Here's some food for thought. The origin of the word TIPS is "to insure proper service" and once upon a time the "tip" was given at the beginning of the meal "to insure proper service". The service given was based on the tip that was received not the other way around.
I wish people would stop saying that. That is not what the word means or how it came about. That's just something someone came up with to explain the word long after it was in use.
It dates back to the 1600s, where it first came into the language as slang meaning "to share" or "give". When bartering was more a part of the monetary system than it is now, giving back and forth was common. You get a cake, you give a shawl. You want me to shoe your horse? Give me a week's supply of produce. When bartering gave way to transactions done entirely with money, "tip" come into use as a word to mean money or gifts that you give to someone beyond the price of the service or item. Even then, it was still used to mean a gift. If someone treated you well or you liked their product, you gave them a little extra something as thanks. It became a sign of wealth to be able to simply hand extra monies to those serving them.
It wasn't until tipping became normal and then expected from everyone, rich or not, that the meaning of a tip changed in our minds. It became a rewards system set in place to encourage good behavior from those in service positions. Only then did someone make up the "To Insure Prompt Service" meaning.
It doesn't really even make sense, if you think about it. "Insure" means to pay for or secure protection of something in advance. You insure your house against fire. You insure your car against accidents. You pay beforehand, and then only IF something bad happens are you able to benefit from the money you paid. "Ensure" is the word you are looking for here. It means "to make sure of" or "to guarantee". You want to guarantee prompt service, not pay in advance for protection against an accident.
So the phrase should be "To Ensure Prompt Service" or "TEPS" which doesn't fit at all.
@rulesofuse – That's funny – learn something knew every day! I stand very well corrected. Thanks! :-)
Isn't it, though? I love looking into history and entomology. I must admit it does sort of irritate me when people get stuff like this wrong. Not their fault, I just do more research than most.
I disagree about announcing a coupon, prior to ordering. Having been a server, it will only get you bad service, because the server will automatically assume you're cheap and not going to tip worth a crap, (only because 90% of people using coupons only tip on the discounted ticket and not the entire amount, pre-discount.)
Restaurant.com certifcates add the 18% prior to taking the discount, so you'll get bad service just because that server KNOWS thier getting their 18% no matter what.
So DO NOT announce coupon prior to ordering....
I do not drink alcohol, so when I go out, it is either water or iced tea. Sometimes the iced tea does not go with what I am eating, so if theylook down on me for drinking water, so be it. I always leave a nice tip - when deserved, of course–, and always add something to it if we take up the table for a long time. Most servers I encounter are friendly and always willing to serve you, but there are ones that are very rude, too, like you can't ask them for ketchup or anything without a tch or a sigh. These are the ones who should get a different job, if they possibly can.
Regarding servers paying taxes, yes they do. My best friend was a server, and she had to report 8% of her sales as taxable income.
I don't give a damn about servers. They are all d-bags. I tip 15%. Period. You can call me cheap if you want, but that's all you're getting. The owner of the restaurant is not going to turn away customers (especially regular customers) because of low tips to their servers. NEVER. Restaurants are in business because of they're customers – cheap or not. In fact, restaurants actually lose money from excessive tipping. People have budgets for eating out and they money will either go to the restaurant itself or to the servers. Guess which option the restaurants prefer?
Good job tipping 15% – that's better than most however by your comments I'd venture to say you are the D-bag. You are inaccurate to say restaurants lose money from excessive tipping and people regardless of their financial situation do not order a less expensive meal so that they can save the money for the tip. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. And PS – a restaurant most certainly will turn away customers that absolutely do not tip – I've seen it happen so educate yourself before posting on a topic you know nothing about.
@WTFindy: Any restaurant that turns away those who don't tip doesn't deserve to be in business at all, and if I had any evidence of any restaurant in my town doing it I'd personally make sure no one I knew ever ate there again. Waiters should get paid a fair wage to begin with, get tipped only for notable service and not as a core requirement of eating out, and they shouldn't get away with tip "sharing" that totals 20% or less of their tips split across the hosts, cooks, dishwashers, etc. *combined*. Tipping is a completely broken custom and served in the restaurant where I worked only to ensure that the waiters made 35k+ on four hours a night while everyone else made less than 15k. It's total bullshit.
@Svenski – I agree with most of what you say. I wish they would do away with tipping as well and just pay servers a fair wage outright. Unfortunately that's not the case and as far as the tip sharing – most people don't realize that happens as well. Most people don't realize that the server is tipping out a host, busser, expo, bartender. It all adds up. The restaurant most certainly did inform a customer that if they refused to tip then they could take their business elsewhere. This is after several weeks of the customer coming in to the bar – staying for 5 or 6 hours taking up a table for that entire time and running the server ragged and not tipping. The server has to pay taxes on the sales regardless if tipped as well as losing the money on the table not being turned. Enough is enough. If you are going to come in and take up a table for an entire evening then you had better tip or take your damn business elsewhere.
Why does a tip depend on the cost of a meal (i.e., be a percentage of the price listed on the menu)? Does someone getting a $20 entree really get better service than someone buying the $7.99 special? Tipping should really be a gratuity - thank you for service well provided. I tip by the quality of the service, not by the price of the meal. Whether my water glass stays empty or is refilled definitely impacts the amount of the tip. If I have to wait 20 minutes for my check when it's pretty obvious that I'm done eating and waiting to leave (my napkin's back on the table, dishes pushed away), then the tip is significantly less. I much prefer the European method (no tips expected). I'd rather pay a higher price for my dinner and not be expected to tip.
Just so you know – servers pay taxes on the amount of their sales – that is why you should tip based on the price of your meal keeping in mind the service you received.
NEVER reveal the coupon until after the food is served!
Otherwise, you may get smaller portions.
Look people – servers don't care if you use a coupon, shit, most of us use them when we go out. As a patron (especially one who has never worked in the service industry), you should always keep some things in mind when you're out to eat. 1) On average, servers make about $3.00 per hour (that goes to taxes) so our paycheck is our tips. 2) A good tip for good service is 20% of the original total 3) Don't get mad when you ask for 27 split checks, extra lemons, no ice, extra dressing on the side, more napkins for your kids, etc and everything doesn't go perfectly. We are only human and the majority of us are doing what we can do to get the biggest tip we can out of you. 4) Realize that most of us are doing this as a means to an end, we're in school, we're artists, we're recently laid off from our "real job" and we are only working there for the same reason you suffer through endless hours in a cubicle everyday, BECAUSE IT PAYS THE BILLS.
The attitudes here are sad. ANY job is a good job. Do it with pride and be demand respect.
Servers need to be tipped unless the service is bad. This needs to bet the rule– the whole system is built around it. I always tip 20% of the bill on table service. It doesnt matter if it is Applebee's or fine dining. But if there are advertised discounts, then you get tipped on the discount price. I realize it may not seem fair, but that is reality. If the restaurant is having a special that night, should I ask them what the pre-discount price is so that i can tip them appropriately? If they are doing an early bird special should I ask for a 2nd bill of the pre-discounted total? That is crazy.
Rule 1: Always tip 15-20% unless the service is bad
Rule 2: If the service is bad enough to not tip, tell the management
For all those of you who look down on servers because of their choice of employment: I take it none of you ever go out to eat? Surely you musn't...why would you yourselves in the same room as "those people"? Like it or not, you rely on those people who don't have a "real job" to contribute to a nice evening out...to bring you your drinks and food as ordered, to keep those drinks full, and to ensure your ticket is correct. Think about the customers you deal with at your OWN place of business (and by "customers", I mean clients, students, business contacts, patients, etc)...do you appreciate it when they treat YOU as if you're a second-class citizen? You must also understand that you are in A PLACE OF BUSINESS...and the owner/manager's primary responsibility is to ensure the establishment makes money. So don't get mad when the server asks if you want to see the wine list or tells you about the high-dollar specials. And servers, don't assume because we order a water to drink that we're not going to order the $70 Kobe filet...some of us just prefer to drink water at meals. Also, if something is undercooked, don't assume we're being jerks & spit in our food if we ask you to take it back...I won't eat raw chicken to avoid a snotball in my dish. A little respect on BOTH ENDS goes a long way!
Thank Leah...very well said. I drink water with my meal whether I'm at a restaurant or home. I just prefer it that way. My husband and I make sure we tip well even if everything isn't perfect. There are too many factors involved and why would we be guilty of not doing the right thing just because my server didn't smile or move as fast as I prefer? Come on. None of us are so important that we can't make allowances for one another.
People that say being a server is not a "real job" obviously have never worked in that business nor could they handle it. I challenge each of them to try out a shift. I guarantee 100% they would walk away with a different attitude.
On a side note why do women always have to change the menu around when they order? They are never happy with just ordering the item on the menu as it is stated, its annoying.
Charlie, when you're paying for a meal, "women" or men should be entitled to order what they want. Everyone has personal preferences. There are items on a menu that people can't eat, etc. That being said, we should all treat people with respect and remember we are in a restaurant, not our personal dining room. Personally, I have used coupons on several occasions, even in restaurants I have been in before. Why not? This is a savings to me and I love knowing that I can save $$.
Regarding the very first comment on this thread – I have never been to a restaurant where the kids meal did not include a drink. I have never seen a children's menu where you have to purchase the drink seperately and you pay the same price regardless if you order them coke or water. That being said – I've been in the restaurant business part time for several years and it has been my experience that customer's order what they prefer to drink. The one's you have to watch out for are the people that ask the price of every little thing. Coupons are hit or miss but most of the time people tip on the discounted total which is crap for the server. On the same token – I give the same service to my customers regardless of what they are drinking and what coupons they may have. If they run me ragged and tip me ridiculously then I will make a mental note of that. The next time they come in I won't give bad service but I won't run for them either.
Really? The only restaurants I've gone where the kids meal DOES include the drink are places like Denny's or IHOP or some of the more family oriented chains. Most places I've gone the kids meals include the entree and sometimes a dessert. The drink is separate. A couple have special glasses for kids, but most just give them a normal drink.
Most people with kids who are dining out are going to the more family oriented chains and therefore yes – the kids drink is almost always included in the meal. That is what I was talking about. Regardless I read her post wrong anyway – she was complaining about having to purchase two drinks on top of two entrees to get the free kids meal – not that she had to buy two drinks for the kiddos. my bad.
The difference between thrifty and cheap.
One is thrifty if they use coupons for a discounted meal. One is cheap if they tip based upon the discounted price.
Well said B-lake.
About a year ago my girlfriend and I came across a sweet deal at one of the finest restaurants in the area. We made reservations, we let the host know up front, and when the time came for the server to ask us what we wanted he was very unfriendly, almost uncomfortable because we had a "coupon" and the service was horrible. On top of that I was expected to tip at the pre-discount? I tipped accordingly, however when it came for us to leave I let the manager know about the poor service and how bad we felt because we had arrived with a promotional coupon. Since then, we have never returned. We did go to another restaurant with a coupon on Valentine's Day and on that occasion everything was prefect. The food was phenomenal, the service was excellent, and on this round we even got a bottle of wine! It's really a hit or miss with this coupons. But good insight...you should mention the quality of the service because that is what will make want to come back.
Maggie makes excellent points. I have found several new spots thanks to Blackboard Eats. I love the concept.
I can't believe these comments. Servers are people, not slaves. If you expect to receive, and enjoy your meal at any "sit down restaurant", they are of utmost importance to your dining experience. They work hard. Don't punish them because their pay depends on the tip system. I've watched patrons speak to servers like they are beneath them, and I've been hurt for the server. I work in the public sector...insurance agency. If I don't "jump through hoops", you will move your business, even if I've done everything to the best of my ability to serve you. Some things take time, the state sets rates, etc, and I can't change that. However, there are days when I don't feel like smiling, and I bet it's the same for you, and servers. Where's the compassion? My goodness, we're talking about servers that are on their feet constantly, carrying heavy trays that most of us can't and then trying to be attentive to more than one table with people that are very demanding. I couldn't do it.... Tipping on the prediscounted bill is the only right thing to do. Shame on you people that consider yourself so much better than others.
EARN YOUR TIPS AND QUIT CRYING!!!!!! IF YOUR NOT GETTING TIPPED ITS BECAUSE YOU SUCK!!! I DONT GET PAID TO SCREW STUFF UP...WHY SHOULD YOU????
Clearly you have never worked in the tipping business. Some people are a-holes when it comes to tipping regardless of the service you give – judging your post you must be one of them. Some people think that $2.00 on a $40.00 tab is a good tip. NEWSFLASH: It isn't.
Never, EVER tell them you are using a coupon until you have received your bill. Any restaurant can apply the discount at time of payment. Disclosing your big discount coupon will only result in you receiving inferior service.
At the same time, always tip on what the full amount would have been, and also on the level of service you receive.
Is it that hard to be respectful of people? Restaurant staff might not have glamorous jobs, but they're human beings, not slaves, and their way of supporting themselves does not give anyone else the right to talk down to them, tell them they're "not worth" it, or call them names for making mistakes. Sure, there are rude servers, just like there are rude people on the street, but they're not all like that. Be patient and be nice – your service and your day will likely be a lot better.
Stop thinking logically, you'll confuse the self-righteous trolls! ;)
Well said, JH.
This is the problem with the country today. Everyone wants something for nothing. Give me a tip even if I don't come to your table and fill up your water or see if you need anything else.
A TIP IS NOT GUARANTEED! IT IS EARNED! IF YOU HAVE A GOOD ATTITUDE AND DO THE JOB RIGHT THEN YOU WILL GET A GREAT TIP! IF YOU DON'T, THEN YOUR TIP WILL REFLECT THE ATTITUDE AND MANNER IN WHICH YOU SERVED MY TABLE! THE END! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, THEN GO GET A DIFFERENT JOB OR DO THE JOB RIGHT!
Shhhhh, people are sleeping!
Apparenty, ztrc, many people responding to this article seem to think not tipping is not a big deal. I tip 20% as a rule, if the service is good. 15% if it is a decent job, not shabby, but no extra courtesy (like if they give me a hard time to my face if I want my pizza extra thin or my salad dresing on the side). And 10% if they screw up and don't really care that they screwed up. I treat them with respect and dignity,a nd tipping is part of that. It looks like many of these posters do the opposite of that. To them, I hope karma treats them as they deserve to be treated.
One of the 'problems with the country today' is that 'people who are served' (ie, people WITH money, for example) believe they can treat the 'people who serve them' (ie, those with LESS money) with an expected and routine amount of disrespect and as "less than". It is happening all over – employers treat employees like lackeys, customers treat servers like slaves, businesses treat customers like idiots, politicians treating their constituents like rubes, TV personalities treating their fans like mindless fanatical lemmings, etc. I'm sick and tired of seeing the Golden Rule ("Treating others as you would have them treat you") ignored over and over. The least you could do is treat someone whose job it is, day afte day, to make impatient people happy like a human being.
Too many people don't read the coupon, then take it out on the server when they didn't order whatever they needed to order to use the coupon. The server may have given them great service but because they only ordered one entree and two were required, they leave no tip. It's not the servers fault you can't read.
Does anyone hear actually enjoy going out to eat? As a long-time server, it is frustrating when a guest sits in your section and does not order much food or drink. But, I don't get mad at someone for ordering just water. It's a preference. Honestly, soda adds 2-3 bucks to the bill, not a huge dent as far as tip is concerned. I actually usually miss the table that does not order alcoholic drinks, as this usually significantly leads to higher checks. But honestly, I'm there to make your dining experience great. It's my job to make sure the person with the shellfish allergy doesn't get anything that will cause a reaction. I have to be knowledgeable about the entire menu and wines and cocktails to offer suggestions to guests at the restaurant. So, no it's not always easy. I've held plenty of other jobs, and have an impressive education. I'm not an idiot. But, honestly, it's not a bad job. Bad tips happen sometimes, it comes with the territory. And yes, if you have a coupon you should tip on the pre-coupon amount. You provide the service for that food/drink, and you should be tipped accordingly, end of story. But, it's not a perfect world. What is frustrating is posters like @Stealthpot, who also think it's their right to try to get servers fired. Really??? I would not presume to walk into anyone else's job in any field and tell the managers who should or shouldn't work there. Ridiculous. If you have a problem, certainly, voice your concern to the manager, certainly this can be done in a polite manner (you'll probably see better results this way anyhow), without demands of people losing jobs. They will take care of you. Seriously, go out to eat and have an enjoyable experience, that's what it's all about.
I took my family to dine at The View Point Inn in Corbett Oregon. We had confirmed the hours of operation the previous night and arrived a bit early. Turns out someone errored on the hours and we ended up waiting about an additional hour. Still they served us something to drink and let us wander around the grounds. The views overlooking the Columbia River were fantastic. The owner was an absolute hoot. The staff were all consumate professionals. The chef was fantastic. They discounted our entire meal 100% (yes free) for the error in hours even though we didn't ask for it. I can highly recommend the french toast with strawberry compote. We watched as they helped a family with young children by coming up with age appropriate dishes that were not on the menu.
Between the outstanding service, great food, and really good folk we donated the money back to the Inn with an appropriate tip to the server. I highly recommend The View Point Inn.
It's simple. If you can't afford to properly tip for good service coupon or not, the you CAN'T afford to go out and should stay home.
Those of you who are servers and post here, you forget that your job is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. If I were the restaurant owner and found out that my wait staff had half the attitude some of you are posting here, I would fire your butt on the spot! In this economy there is a line of people willing to take your place. Shame on you!
There are waiters/waitresses and then there are servers. Waiters work at nice restaurants and are knowledgeable about what they are doing, you can ask them what wine or beer goes with a particular entree and they may even be able to tell you where everything is from. Your drink will never go empty, you don't have to hunt them down, they are waiting on you. Servers work at Denny's or Applebees and their sole role is taking your order, bringing you food and drink, and bringing you the bill. I will say this though: If your manager feels the need to understaff the restaurant, then don't expect a big tip.
Excuse me sweety?
Would you like to discuss the top beer in the world, Delerium or the different varietals of wine? Do you know the difference between a Pinot Gris and Pinot Grigio?
i'm assuming that you do not. And who really gives a shit about that pretentious crap anyway?
Get off your high horse.
Mmmmm...Delerium... I would tip 50% automatically if any restaurant in this town carried beer with a Delerium label...
Another hot debate of servers vs. customers. I'm a server and I work in a place where they are always giving 10 dollars to even 20 dollars (bogo) yes it is annoying when a person who ordered 40 dollars worth of food gives you $2 for the hour of service I gave them. That's how I feed my family. With that said non-server people don't get mad at the people on the blog because if you went to their restaurant they most likely would treat you with more respect. I treat even the pickiest people with courtesy. Most servers are at least professional enough not to return the attitudes that they get. There are always exceptions. Servers just be nice and flip those tables.
Don't want cheap people in your restaurant? Don't give out coupons. As someone who worked in the web hosting business, I will concur that the bichiest, most demanding clients, are the cheap ones. You do not want to attract these people to your business, as you will lose money with them.
These are really good tips. For all the servers out there, thank you for what you do. For all the cheapskates out there, I'm very embarrassed of you. I dated men that would have said similar things on this post such as "I'll tip what I want" or "You are just a server, so serve." Those men are still single probably because they have a very bad attitude and don't actually see anyone's point of view but their own. It would completely serve you cheapskates right if restaurants started doing what they do in other parts of the world and pay the servers a flat rate and don't require tipping. If that were the case, cheapskates wouldn't be able to afford the food because the price would go up dramatically. This might be the best solution.
It really amazes me how ignorant some people are about the food service industry, especially if they eat out somewhat regularly. But, here's the deal: In the US, servers are NOT subject to "minimum wage" as we know it. For example, in my state, minimum wage for most jobs is $7.25 per hour. However, for waiting tables, it is $2.40. That's right, they earn $2.40 an hour. They are, however, TAXED for 15% of every check they are listed as "server" on, regardless of what the actual tip is – this is the assumed average of what they would make. I understand tipping less than 15% if the service is horrible and attributable to the server. Personally, as someone who used to be a waitress and now is an attorney, I start tipping at 20% for good service.
If you feel that a waiter isn't doing you any service worth your money, then why bother to eat out at a full-service restaurant?? Just order out food to go if you are there just for the food and not the experience/atmosphere of being waited on (even many very good restaurants will do "to go" orders on request)!! Then, no tip required, and you don't have to pay for service.
THANK YOU LUCY
Entirely agreed. I worked as an all-purpose person for 5 years at a small restaurant where tips were scarce because customers were. Now as a consumer, I don't go out if I don't figure I can afford to tip at least 20% of the bill. Doesn't mean that they always GET the 20%, better service can get more... especially on small total receipts, bad service will net you less. But I always make sure that it's available.
Being nice just gets a nice size 10 right across your foolish face. This is all bull-loney. Make the biggest stink you can to get what you want. Everyone knows that the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease, and unfortunately the most arrogant SOB gets the best table and the best deal. i've given up on being nice while big mouths get what they want, I'm the big mouth now. I don't really care what you think of my, you're opinion frankly doesn't matter to me, as long as you give me what I want......and you will if I make enough of a fuss.
Haha. We go to restaurants for the service and atmosphere? Look at you with your sense of entitlement. If I wanted service and atmosphere I would go to a spa, when I want FOOD I go to a restaurant. I could care less about the service and greatly prefer smaller places that dont have waiters to deal with. If I went to a restaurant for the disgusting service and atmosphere that irritated23 provides I would probably puke.
I happen to PREFER water with my meal. I live in th south and it's cold, refreshing, and there are no conflicting flavors with your food. That doesn't make me cheap, just un-thirsty, which was the point of getting a beverage in the first place. Alcohol is normally not included with these coupons, which is fine. When I order alcohol, I don't expect a discount on it.. I try to make up for it by getting an expensive entree. I tip according to service and attitude. Unless the service really sucks, I start at 20%. "Drew" above is an idiot and has no class at all.
I'm all about ordering water. I only order water too because I know the profit margin for Soda and $2.50 since isn't worth the diabetes. Every customer gets treated well by me no matter what – we just want people, no matter what they order, to be respectful and realistic in their expectations from a server!
Why should I tip anyone? Pay the damn employees!
It's kind of sad to see so much ignorance on these comments. I remember when tips weren't taxed and really were extra, so people were able to make a good living with the minimum wage paid by the restaurant and then tips. Most servers would not report tips to the IRS, which is why the government eventually insisted on taxing them and allowed the restaurants to get away with paying servers less than minimum wage because they supposedly made so much in tips, even when they actually didn't. This set things up to have the customer being expected to be the ones paying the majority of the servers' wages directly, but it's not required. The customer should not be paying these peoples' wages directly at all, and a tip SHOULD be just that, for outstanding service. So you can blame Regan and the other republicans who came up with this nightmare.
I think all you people forget that waiters and cook staff have the ability to sprinkle crusty skin taken from a herpes sore over your food if you're being rude to them in the process, regardless if they get your order right or not.
The fact that you think they're there to serve you and shut up and take whatever you give them regardless of social custom or how much hard work they put in is astonishing.
This isn't 1500's India with a caste system. Servers are not untouchables and you're not a high priest. If you got good service, it's customary to tip. If you got bad service, than simply don't tip. But if you get bad service because you are treating the server bad from the start, then maybe they don't deserve a tip, but they do at least deserve an apology.
Don't walk into a restaurant 5 minutes before they close with 4 kids in tow, order the biggest things off the menu, be rude and curt to the wait staff because you think that they're lower than you, get angry when you order things using subjective terms and not exact specifics, and then act shocked when the staff stops caring about your food and order and well being because you've treated the people who bring you your food as if they're nothing more than dogs who should take orders flawless, perfectly understand everything you want and read your minds and kiss your toes and wipe your ass.
And besides, discount food? Discount service. Fair enough?
True that. I work at a place where we use coupons, and nothing annoys us more than when people ONLY come in with coupons once a month. I get it, we're in a recession, but we're a small business as well. We don't really make a profit when the same people use a coupon every time. The point was to get you in to try us out, and then hopefully, you'd be back to support a local business instead of coming in with one every. single. time.
I remember the %10 rule as well. Today, my starting point for a tip is 15%.... reduced if service is poor, increased if service is better than expected. That being said, there are several "servers" on here that act as if those folks who tip less should just stay at home. Is a 5% not better than no tip at all? In most cases, it is not like all resaurants currently have long lines, and that person giving you a 5% tip is keeping someone from sitting there and giving you more. In some cases it may, but not in the vast majority. It would always be nice to make more, but I think shunning your customers seems to be like saying "I am hungry, but if you can not feed me what I want, I simply will not eat, thanks anyway".
mark...if it's early on in the dinner or lunch....for us...yes, it would be better for us if the 5% tipper didn't come in, because the next table that the server would have gotten would almost be guaranteed to have tipped better. It's sat in rotation. that 5% is really only 1-2% after taking care of support staff. If it's towards the end of the shift or the end of the night, yeah a closer will take whatever comes in the door. But no one wants a democrat tipper coming in during the rush. Again...lots of people don't understand the economics of a restaurant or how it all works on the fiscal side. Assumption are made and more often then not, they are incorrect.
I am not sure why taking care of the support staff is left up to the servers. That truely seems like an odd tie in, and one that lets the establishment off the hook for paying them.
Think of support staff as sub-contractors. Like I said earlier...unless you've been in the business, you probably don't know how it really works. Most folks would have a hard time making a budget in a job where you didn't know what you were making from day to day....say way with tip earners....it took me forever to get the hang of making a budget for getting paid once every two weeks.
I get the subcontractor concept, just not why it is up to the server to take care of them. In the greater sceme, they serve a function to the restaurant owner more thann they do you. I mean, if they were truely the servers responsibility, then the servers should be the ones hiring/firing the support staff. I simply mean to say seems that the server gets stiffed on that.
Thank you, Josh. :-)
So often the restaurants that offer these "deals" are the ones that can't get business any other way. Think about it - when was the last time you saw a truly first rate establishment publishing coupons? In my experience, a "great deal" from a restaurant coupon is an invitation to try a restaurant that is either not worth it at their normal asking price, or is struggling for other reasons - in other words it's a huge red flag. Call me jaded, but I'm unsurprised that both diners and servers have complaints about coupons - the diners are eating at a restaurant that can't stand on it's own without offering a deal, and the servers are working at one. Sucks to be everyone, as best I can tell.
It is not always that case that a restaurant can not stand alone without coupons. In many cases, it is just another way to create a future return customer. Grocery stores do this all the time, and the items are called loss leaders. They take a loss on that item, but get you in the door. I have seen many successful places have coupons. Just like major soft drink companies advertise, it is to strengthen their future, not that moment. By your point, they should not bother advertising, they are already a success.
Eh. It's different for restaurants. The marginal cost to a soda company to produce one more soda is negligible, so it's all profit. A restaurant that's full all the time only pisses people off by attracting new customers they don't have the capacity to serve. Many of the restaurants I frequent book up weeks in advance, or don't even bother to take reservations and frequently have multi-hour waits, which customers are willing to endure because the experience is worth it. These places don't advertise and don't offer coupons. A restaurant truly operating at its peak potential doesn't need to advertise because word-of-mouth is more than they need to keep the floor full. Running a restaurant and selling a commodity product are hardly comparable.
I believe waiting tables should be a mandatory part of every american's education... Just so everyone can experience the difficulty and stress of such a job.....any job working with the public typically sucks but serving has got to be the worst of the worst
Mandatory eh? You are going to make it a law punishable by some time in prison if you don't make your kids wait tables?
Can't we all just get along?
30% pay cut? Are you freaking kidding me? Once upon a time a generous tip was considered to be 10% Now you're viewed as cheap if you leave 15%. Gimme a freaking break. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know the wait staff doesn't make minimum wage...which is a crime in my book.
No, I won't be tipping prediscount...it doesn't make sense...especially if you go to a restaurant that has 2 for 1...you wouldn't be giving a tip for the original price of those meals if it weren't to begin with.
The more I read this blog the more I want to never walk into another restaurant again...but then I think about the places were I live and I end up going there...at least at these places I don't feel like I'm being scammed half the time.
Then by all means...keep reading this blog.
The problem is most people have lapped up and accepted the ridiculous notion that despite the existence of labor laws and the like, it is perfectly fine for a restaurant owner to be a HUGE CHEAPSKATE and not pay his waiters a fair and legal salary that is in tune with minimum wage, like the rest of the damn world. Are teachers also to be paid 2 bucks an hour and expect a small tip of 15 bucks from each student to pay their salaries? Or how bout cops? This is blatantly stupid.
If you work in any job, you are entitled to a fair salary and it should be GUARANTEED to you by your employer who signs the cheques and gives you your tax slips.
A tip started off as a convenience to complete the dollar so people would not have to lug change. Now you expect a tip and DICTATE the amount? Greedy and selfish. And before you say I am greedy and selfish, keep in mind that nobody else in any other industry demands or expects a certain amount of tip. They get their salary and accept it. If you do not like your guaranteed salary, find a new job or take on your employer in court. Don't tell people they should not eat out anymore. Serving food is no different than any other job in the service industry. Things will become unmanageable if every damn service industry worker was to be "tipped" on an invoice.
You do have a point there AC. I stand by my first post but I will say this; while I was working tipped positions, I never approached any customer with the expectation of a certain tip. I did what I did because I work hard and I like helping people. I felt the tip would just come naturally if I did so; and you win some, you lose some. I worked with people however, who did look at the customer as walking dollar bills. And it was obvious in both how they treated the customer, and how they treated me working right next to them. Just a point I had to make. Also, I recently moved which was very expensive and discovered that many people tip movers. I did so as well but this came as a total surprise and I hadn't anticipated the extra cost. And on the owner side; I know a lot of bartenders. Some owners let their people slide and they don't have to claim as much (at least in terms of enforcement) but other owners are oppressive... Why the variation? I don't get it... Anyway.
Entitled and Fair....can tell yer a liberal.
Ok sport...look at it this way. Servers are contractors hired by restaurants to take care of their guests. They are paid the service minimum as a way for the federal governmeent to collect taxes, medicare and SS. At the end of the day, a server is reall your temporary employee. The idea is that the better that we take care of our employer, the better we will be compensated. Now....some of you that we take care of are the equivalent of Walmart or Starbucks. We understand that. While other are pharmaceutical and telecom companies. It's the luck of the the draw. I don't think it can be made any clearer than that. If someone does a bad job for their employer they are going to get jack squat. On the other hand, if you are well taken care of and your employee is engaging with you, there is an anticipation of superior compensation.
DONT, WE WONT MISS YOU ONE BIT.
OH MY DEAR GOD, SHUT THE HELL UP PEOPLE!
RAMPANT STUPIDITY AS IS USUAL IN THE COMMENT SECTION!
For all of the non-tippers out there: Please be aware that the server never takes home that entire 15%. In many states the server is paid roughly $2.00/hour+tips. A percentage of the sales automatically goes to the bartender and other support staff. A small percentage goes to hosts/expediter/runner/dishwasher. The government taxes you automatically on 8% of your sales and if it's a credit card tip (which almost always is the case) then you have to claim 100% of that tip as income, yet after tip-out etc...you may have only taken home 3% of that 15% tip. Therefore in some cases you actually pay taxes on money you didn't even take home. I'm sure that is too confusing for some of you, but the stupid servers know exactly what I'm talking about. So before you decide to tip 10% (or are rude enough to tip nothing-which people do even when the issue has nothing to do with the server), please think twice. -Former server/currently an RN, BSN (which is actually just a glorified server these days ha!)
Sounds like you waiters and waitresses are being exploited by your employers. You get paid less than minimum wage.
This less than minimum wage earning server has a higher net worth than most of his guests.
If my income is being taxed on the tip I received then I would do my best to be a good server, no? If I am a horrible server, why should I be rewarded with a good tip?
Where is the incentive to give good service if the industry norm is to give the tip no matter what?
I want good service. If you are going to give good service, I will give you a bonus in the form of a tip. Otherwise, forget it.
Or is North American culture so sick now that good service is "I did not spit in your food"?
Keep ranting sport...luckily for every one of you, there are 9 decent people to serve. These blogs just bring out the knobs and wingnuts. Little joke we have around here when guys like you stiff us or undertip after being provided with great service... "Waiters Reparations"....The smart ones don't come back....the dumb ones....well...they come back but are typically served as 2nd class citizens....below the couple with the screaming baby, the 1 top that reads a book while camping for 3 hours, and the 6 top of vegans from california that insist on ordering bottled water...and ask for a glass filed with ice made with tap water to pour the water into.
Hey Josh.
When is the last time you tipped your local bus driver for not killing you, moron?
Why would I ride a bus....the wife and I own our vehicles outright....with tip money. Thanks for playing.
You're telling me what to tip? The tip is a bonus - my prerogative. I will pay what I want and I don't need your tips on what I should tip. If the tip is so damn compulsary, put it into the damn bill instead of expecting me to paying extra.
The cheapskate is the restaurant owner. Why don't they pay their waiters? They pay their accountants and janitors. Should I leave a salary for the accountant and janitor too?
AC I'm just asking... If that owner pays his servers more so we don't have to tip, and his prices suddenly go up, especially compared to other restaurants, would you really want to go there? I see restaurants that don't compete going under all the time. It seems to me we're kinda stuck with the current system.
The current system makes NO sense. So what if the prices went up? The prices of everything goes up with time. Cars, haircuts, teaching your kids in school, policing, etc.
Why doesn't every damn profession out there list a bunch of tip boxes and EXPECT the client to pay for every component that went into whatever they are buying?
I bought a car a few years ago. Should I have paid a tip for the guy who installed the tires? What about the tip for the guy who painted the body? Or installed the steering wheel. What happens when the prices of the car suddenly go up? Would I really want to buy that car?
I'm reading these comments....and It's quite obvious some people here have eaten someone's spit more than once.
That's assault. It is a violation of the criminal code.
Ah. You say that 99% of such offenses are never caught? Sure. True. I am not disagreeing with that. But it is assault and in fact it is also battery (civil code). Which means that if you ever were caught, you'd be going to prison, and you'd be sued in court by the person who you victimized.
Hey brown eye....I have never done it....but not everyone is as moral and/or professional as me. You think some punk kid serving you cares about getting caught if yer jacking with him all night. Hell, if he did get caught he'd have stories to share for a long time, he'd lose his job and get another one within a week. Use yer brain MENSA boy.
You are a pansy... "Battery, assault" what a douche.
There is nothing wrong with being a server. When you have a job do it well, take pride in your work. Not everyone can be a doctor or a lawyer. Job titles are not that important. Do job that you will like. Stop looking down on people! The only reason to put down a waitress or waiter is to manke yourself feel better and the other person to feel bad. Get a life! This is a major problem in our society. All jobs have value and so do people!
You are so right ! In my opinion this is the best post in this thread.
Oh, I SO disagree with number 2: "Give it up Immediately"! My husband and I stayed in a hotel that participated in a city-wide tourist promotion by offering all-inclusive pckages. This was in a city where we had lived for many years, and we knew the restaurants well. Our hotel package deal included breakfast vouchers for a restaurant where we'd had many fine dinners over the years, so we expected good things. But when we handed over our vouchers when we ordered, the server's entire mood changed. Friendliness turned to resentment. Our food took forever to arrive, was cold, and the eggs were tough from being held under heat lamps for too long. Day-old bread was served with it. None of it was edible. As I said, this was a good restaurant that we knew well. I assume that they threw this slop at the package tourists, figuring that they wouldn't be tipped well, and that these were people who would never come back. Of course, they lost our business, and we spread the word on the place, so the bad behavior came back to haunt the restaurant. But my point is this: never mention the coupon or voucher until you have been served all of your dishes. It can and probably will change the way you are treated, and possibly the quality of the food you are served. That's the sorry truth of it.
So you know, you people being so horribly resentful of attending to the conventions and expectations of the society in which you live (i.e. tipping 15-20%) are today's equivalent to peasants. You have no business being in a restaurant that provides table service and should kindly take your steerage class selves to McDonalds or some such establishment.
Look... I am reading some of these comments and just shaking my head. I have a good job, I'm educated, I consider myself successful, working an as an engineer. It happened because of hard work and school. But especially in this economy, it's also still happening because of a bit of luck; luck that many people who have worked as hard or harder than I have are not experiencing. Years before doing this, I worked in tipped positions in hotels, and before that as a food server. For those of you on here who have never done it (and I can pretty much tell who hasn't), it's hard work, sometimes done by patient, talented people who know how to multitask and have better memories than I have to have now. The way good people are attracted to minimum wage jobs like that is in the fact that they are tipped positions! Now yes, if someone gives me horrible service or has an attitude, I don't tip. But coming from where I came from, if the person is doing their job, it's 15%. If they really go above and beyond, it's 20%. It might work differently in other countries but here, it's not only a cultural norm and expectation that we tip good service, it's just class. I cringe each time I go out to dinner with my mom and she cleans out her coin purse to tip a $60 tab. Tip your bellman, your bar tender, the guy at the car wash who just busted is ass drying your car, and your server. If you're not going to, chose venues where tipping isn't expected at all...
Eating at a restaurant is an experience for the customer and not one for the waiter or waitress. Yes, workers at the restaurant are serving you and should be treated with respect and dignity, but going out of your way to use one of these coupons by alerting the reservation host, the seating host and the waiter is overkill. And the 'Thank your host for having you' bullet is ridiculous- you spent the money! Why should you thank anyone but yourself?
I find it rather funny to read the comments over the article at subject in this discussion. Seems to me the entirety of everyone's posts sums up precisely what is wrong with our society and probably why our economy is as bad as it is today. Me, Me, Me, and a bonus side of Self Entitlement with no respect or regard to anyone but your damn self. Server, Tipper: Get over yourself because you really werent that good.
Cynical,
Nicely put. I cant remember the last time I went out to a 4 or 5 star place.....Give me the hole in the wall and a wait person who is funny and nice......and its all good.
Greg
Good Comments,
As it turns out, your standard 12-16 oz glass of any soda costs a whopping 6 CENTS. Yes...that is correct. The cup you put the soda in costs more than twice the cost of the soda. Also, When you are at a wine bar and see the first 6 ounce glass poured........the net cost of that bottle to the establishment is 100% paid for. I am in the industry and these numbers are accurate. Everyone even close to this business knows that the liquids are the extreme profit centers.
I love going to restaurants and looking at the wine menu to see how much a glass compares to a bottle...especially if I know how much that same bottle will cost me at the store. Much of the time the restaurant charges per glass what you can buy the whole bottle for. Crazy!
before. The tax you see in your bill is YOUR fiscal responsibility. The servers income taxes are based on the amount of food/beverage/other that they sell pre-tax. If that makes sense.
It does. Thank you.
A question: do you tip on the amount before or after the tax?
I don't understand why I should tip a % of the bill. Is my service any better for a $5 hamburger as opposed to a $20 steak? I tip what I feel the waiter or waitress deserves. What the restaurants should do is increase the price of their food and drinks by 15% and give it to the wait staff.
And by the way, all you stupid people bashing the "with the purchase of soft drinks" post. The point was to make sure to read the fine print; the deal may not be as good as you think. It wasn't a complaint that they had to buy the drinks. And to think, you are bashing people as being "just a server". Really??
IF the service was good, I always make it my practice to basically give the server what I saved in ADDITION to the regular calcualted tip. So,if my check is $30 and I got $5 off, I generally give an $10 to $11 tip. Thats about 20% plus the $5
Servers are TAXED based on what they SELL... pre discount, in most states. Even if your whole bill gets comped and you pay zero dollars for whatever reason, your server is expected to report 8-15% of that total is incomwhether they make it or not.. So yeah, any honorable person given good service should tip based on the pre-discounted amount. Its not your servers responsibility to "get a new job" or even be "thankful for their job", its our responsibility to be good citizens and consumers and tip... because thats how the system works. If you dont like tipping for service, then go eat at a cafeteria...and serve yourself.
honorable?
everyone I know who has waited tables have only reported the bare minimum of their income. The rest of it disappears. I suspect that one of the reasons that waiters can work 4 hour days and less than 40 hour weeks is because they only report the income they feel like, which gives them an effective 15 to 20% pay raise from working a "real" job.
I agree that servers should get tipped based on their performance. I think restaurant managers should take a bigger interest in what is going on out on the floor. It is their job to train the servers and if the servers are slammed,it is their job to help out. Everyone needs to take pride in their work and it just seems like people don't anymore. People like to blame others. It must be the patron fault she doesn't like ice or the kichen didn't tell me your food was up for the last 10 minutes. Everyone wants credit but will not take blame for their own short comings. By the way...I was in Food and Beverage both as a server and a manager for over 10 years......so I am not just saying it should be based on performance because I don't want to pay. I pay extra for really good service or if the server goes out of the way to entertain the kids by talking to them.
Wow are you folks cruel and pompous. Restaurant servers are people too, and deserve the same respect you are expecting (no, demanding) from them. While I also believe restaurants should pay their staff what they are worth, the ugly truth is they don't. Until that happens (which will require government intervention), these people are forced to rely on tips to survive. Regardless how you feel, let's show some compassion and respect for our fellow man (er, persons).
Soda is sugar water, I am not a hummingbird.
As for server's...Be grateful to be employed. As for the tip, let's remember that it is based upon "good" service and is entirely VOLUNTARY and not mandatory.
And as for these tip jars, they have popped up everywhere to the point of being obnoxious. I am still waiting to see if some sprout at the checkout in grocery stores–oh better not give any ideas.
By the way, I am usually guilty of over-tipping, because I used to wait tables. But sometimes I should really be nerdy and use my tip calculator.
I love how people are telling others what they SHOULD give, in what is considered a voluntary gesture.
So you HAD to buy the drinks that you didn't want in order to use the coupon? So then why even use the coupon if it only saved you $.19? Coupons where you have to buy drinks- which basically cost the restaurant nothing anyway, aren't worth my time. Hello Sweet Tomatoes. In any case, using a coupon shouldn't hurt the server – it may set them back quite a few bucks hourly I would think. And what about servers that rush the customer to leave? Quite rude to me...
servers are not fixing the food or setting the prices of it, they are delivering it as soon as it is prepared and making sure you have plenty of fluids. if the food sucks or is slow but hot blame the cooks and get it discounted (but you'll know if it sucks after one bite, not after clearing the plate), don't blame the servers. if the price is too high blame the owner and never return, don't blame the servers. if the glass is empty or the food cold blame the server. if the server doesn't provide only 50% of the service, don't pay them only 50% of their pay. and before you make some stupid comment about getting a real job, think about the fact that without the server job a) you would be getting your own food\beer and b) they'd be pulling welfare so you'd be paying them to play xbox.
Tell these food fetching lowlifes to STFU and get a real job.
get your own food then.
What's the point of tipping? To motivate servers to provide better service to customers, you may say. But why is it that in Japan I am able to get great service everywhere I go even though no tipping is required (in fact, tipping is considered offensive). Because of the concept of honor in their society, they cannot afford to do a lousy job – no matter what it is that they do. So maybe this is something we as a society should take note of.
They also get paid a lot more.
Wah wah wah when i used to wait tables 10% was the going rate for tips. Now servers think they deserve 15 – 20%. What do you think you do now that makes your services 50 to 100% more valuable than they were 10 – 15 years ago? Prices have gone up since then too so your still making more money at 10% than you would have then.
Get over yourself. The attitudes you take referring to your customers as entitled obese cheapskates make me want to make a big mess and stiff the next server that waits on me just for GP.
really? It was 10% before? Chinese restaurants still expect only about 10%. Yes the service is crappy, but it is also expected.
I think everybody should experience a serving position at least once in their life. They may have a change of heart. All people differ in experiences and attitudes~ I know very good servers and I know those who just expect a tip for the sole fact of being a server. We also have those fine folk out there who come in a restaurant knowing no matter how amazing the service is, tipping isn't part of their agenda.
My wife and I receive an annual "Anniversary" coupon from a tasty restaurant in our area which happens to be close to Valentines day. The first time we booked a meal the night before Valentines and used the coupon they sent us which we promptly provided when we sat down. The fact that we didn't order wine (we don't drink) and we had a coupon promptly caused the server (who I also believe to be a partner) to largely ignore us and when he did come by he seemed to have an attitude about the whole thing. We chalked this up to him having a bad day and hoped history would not repeat itself the following year. Unfortunately we got almost the identical treatment. We haven't been back since. Had he served us pleasantly, I can guarantee we would have been back many times over the last couple years since the food is quite good and we always tip on the full amount. Now we just tell people to avoid.
And they'll tell two friends, and they'll tell two friends and so on and so on . . .
Then, all of them who are worried about a tip won't have a job because no one will be coming to the restaurant any more.
Hmmm.
I say restaurants should just increase their price by 15 to 20%, get rid of the tip and pay the server better. I mean comeon people when you go out to a sit down restaurant and eat you expect to pay quit a bit for the food. Thats just the way it is, If you are too cheap for it don't go out and eat
I often actually use the discount I get from coupons to add to the tip. I used to get $5 off every meal from one restaurant because they kept printing one of those "Answer our survey questions and get $5 off your next meal."
I ended always tipping 15% + $5 every time I used the coupon.
I guess, based on the server’s advise, to stay home if you do not want to tip the FULL bill is:
15% of Full (non-existing bill) = $ 0
Is better than
15% of (Full bill less 30% (I don’t understand where they got that figure))
I would have to say that when I use a coupon I order more so in reality a spend the same amount of money
Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make shit.
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a fucking Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you don't ever tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, our girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn't anything special.
I love Reservoir Dogs.
I agree with all except #2 – I've informed twice ahead of time that I had a coupon, and both times the service instantly went bad, and I felt like I was being rushed to the place. Now I wait until after when I am sure I got great service, and always get the discount...and ALWAYS do #4 and then some (like if I just got $10 off, and my tip should be $6, give $8)
i stay on the server side and even the worse part of it by delivering pizza. let me explain why...i am working pretty hard before the customer, rolling on the couch in front of the TV, opens the door. I pay my car loan, pay my insurance, oil change (every month), brake pads, accidents, tickets... so that you could stay home in the rain and just open the door and grab a slice of pizza... so the next time you open the door think about it and show some respect to the efforts i put into that job... if the owner raises my salary that means "forget about nice deals for you, customer" that means raise of your pizza slice price too.. tiping is a perfect way to keep prices reasonable and at the same time stimulates good service but even when good service has been provided and somebody doesnt tip that ruins the whole principle of tipping and the next time double check your pizza for some delivery guy might spit on it
quick question (i never get a straight answer when I ask) – if there is a delivery charge fee of like $1.50 or $2, do see any of that, or does the restaurant/pizza joint keep it.
The resteraunt keeps it to pay for gas, etc
it depends on the pizza place... the place I work for is free of charge for a delivery... it means it costs you the same amount of money to come and pick it up at the store or I bring it to your table... there are some places that charge for a delivery and they grow in number since the gas prices went up....
So on a 9.99 cheese pizza I am expected to pay a 1.50 to 2.00 delivery charge which pays for your gas and then give you another 3-4 bucks for tip. So I'm tipping you 60% for a cheese pizza.
NO THANK YOU. I'll drive and pick up my pizza.
We got a sweet deal on some restaurant coupons ($25 for $2!) and, I'm happy to say, we followed all five of these rules and had a perfectly delightful time. It was a decently upscale restaurant, not Billy Bob's Bar n Grill. We asked for dining room seating, and sat in the bar while we waited, ordered some drinks and an appetizer. The bartender was such a good server, we decided to stay instead of moving to the dining room, and the owner comped us a second appetizer for the "inconvenience." Our entrees were delicious, as was dessert, and the service was wonderful from the bartender and the owner both. We tipped generously on the pre-discount total. We didn't really save any money over what we would normally spend on a date night, but we got so much more. I think that's how discount coupons should be used–to improve your quality of life, not cause you stress to save you a dime you would have spent anyway.
Where I live servers are paid minimum wage, not less, and tips are on top of that. Food isn't terribly much more expensive than states where they're paid much less than minimum wage. I've also traveled to countries where tipping doesn't really happen and servers are paid an actual living wage and again, meals out aren't really that much more expensive. It's also overall a more pleasant dining experience. I do tip much sometimes it's a culture that's gotten somewhat out of control over here.
The commentaries are actually much more interesting to read than the actual article itself ... :)
Serving and waiting on people is a real job (note no quotations).
It is a respectable job if the people who do it (and benefits from it) choose to do so (be nice people).
But what is the right tipping amount? It should be whatever the server deserves to the capacity that the diner can afford to pay – just because a diner is unable (or justifiably unwilling) to does not take away their right to dine out. I have had servers who put in the effort to be nice to all the tables he/she serves and for that I consciously try to tip more (I have a budget too you know). But for servers who obviously don't care about my presence to begin with, yes I have given 1 cent tips – because I am a cheapskate :)
The real question: why is the tip based on the size of the check? Just because a restaurant serves expensive cuisine doesnt mean the server works any harder than my favorite waitress at IHOP. She is nicer than guys like "Server" anyway!
Great point.
I'm a woman. Not a guy.
The restaurant I worked at involves flair and performance. I make the courses in front of you. It actually is quite a bit of work to bring out and make a four course meal, compared with brining out a plate of pancakes.
Of course this Ihop waitress might have 10 tables going at a time to my four. Just depends on where you're working...
I agree to some extent I've had IHOP waitresses that deserved every bit as much of a tip as staff in a high priced restaurant, but as Server pointed out in upper priced restaurants they are hopefully only giving the servers 4or maybe 5 tables to serve (sometimes less) and they are usually expected to do more than fling the food down with the check. They hopefully are very knowledgeable about the food served, maybe wine, etc. If they only make 4 or 5 dollars on a table that sits there half the night then it's not worth their effort to work there. IHOP type waitresses on the other hand make their money through high volume of tables and turnover. One server isn't better than the other it's just different styles of restaurant.
And to think someone's made a career out of writing this dribble...
A tip must be earned...
The thing about minimum wage is that only certain states apply it to restaurant workers. In WA, we're lucky enough to have one of the highest minimum wages in the US (and it applies to waitstaff!), but there are some states that don't use it as a base; they pay closer to $3/hour. I don't know of many places to live where $3 is enough to get by, part or full-time. A lot of people who work at restaurants are students, parents, etc. Have you seen what tuition costs? How about school supplies? Work is work, and in this economy, a lot of people are LUCKY they can even get a job serving. As a former server, I know how much it sucks when you get a table and they "split" the drink, order an appetizer for an entree, and leave you a single on the table. Seriously, if you can't afford to go out (going out to eat used to be a treat), stay home or take your loved ones on a picnic. Costco sells rotisserie chickens for $5 bucks, hot dogs for $1.50, and cans of soda for 30 cents...and you don't even have to tip them.
I am sure you found a REAL job!
They may be able to pay you $3/hr, but in order to do that they must also average the tips so that they at least meet federal minimum wage. So no, they're not actually making $3/hr.
Futhermore, if you didn't like waiting on people who spend $10 and tip $1, would you have preferred an empty table? If the food and service is good, who's to say they won't be back again and spend more next time?
Minimum wage...
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
I eat out fairly often, and can afford to because I'm going to mid-tier restaurants and I use coupons, order water, and don't order crazy expensive items. I'd like to know when tips hit 20% in the first place? Since when did it creep up from 15% to 18% and now 20% of the bill? And this is on top of the ever-increasing menu prices? I expect the same level of service as the table next to me where they may pile up their money and burn it on the table to show off. I am certainly thrifty with my money, tip on the pre-discount amount, and try to be nice to the servers–it's not a job I could do! I'm 50–my home will be paid for in less than a year, my kids college is already covered, I've got over $1M in retirement savings, have 4 cars all paid for and I'm a secretary and my husband owns a small business. So–if you are SMART with your money you won't be eating IN when you are retired, assuming the idiots who spend to show off can EVER retire. My kids will thank me one day for being a frugal Mom and teaching them the value of money as it relates to what you are buying and what service you are actually receiving for it. Wise up people–coupons are there, use them, treat your server nice and enjoy your meal out.
I rarely leave a tip, unless the service was wonderful. About 10% of the time, I will leave a $100 tip to a great server. Just the way I do business.
I just can't stand cheap people. If $2.50 for a drink is going to break you then you don't need to eat out. Cheap people complain about the economy and how much stuff cost. In addition, they complain how their wages don't go up. Well we can't have a good economy if nobody wants to spend a dime on anything.
Now I remember why I turned down that waiter job...
I don't get the whole tip thing either. In Europe and Japan, tip is included. It seems like the servers here expect a 15-20% tip no matter how crappy they serve, then why bother make it a system that is up to the customer to decide? If it's still up to the customer, then the servers should just accept it for the way it is.
The service in Europe is far worse than the average service received in America. Since the gratuity is already included in the bill the servers have nothing to work for. The server will receive their pay no matter if they fill your drink or don't fill it. I have experienced service in more than a few countries and the service is always better in an environment that requires the server to work for the tip. That said I have had friends who have told me horror stories about tips. The most memorable being a couple who stayed in their booth 45 minutes after closing, received their $30.51 bill and left a $.49 tip. Yes that is 49 cents! Ridiculous and uncalled for.
I don't know what you're talking about! I have been to Europe and service was fantastic. Same for Japan. It's certainly not worse.
i've gotten great service in europe... when i paid around $50 a plate for the meal. if the price of the meal compared to that of the average us meal i was eating a big mac.
That's ridiculous, and untrue. Do you tip the person who waits on you in a shop or the mechanic who works on your car? Do you tip your kids' teacher or the receptionist at your doctor's office? Of course not...they're paid reasonable wages for the work that they do. If you don't like the work they do, you complain to their employers. They're motivated to do a good job because they want to keep that job, and possibly advance within it.
What makes you think that a server is any different? A server that is paid a reasonable wage will work just as hard as one who has to scrape for tips. In fact, since some form of tipping is standard in service industries (even in countries where servers are fairly paid), they stand to gain a great deal by providing good service. They're people who do a job, just like the rest of us. It's this ridiculous tax system of ours that puts them in this position where their ability to make a living is tied to capricious customers, who may not bother to tip well regardless of how good the service is.
I've eaten out in England, Ireland, Italy and Greece, and the service in those countries is every bit as good as the service here.
in europe and japan food is about 50% more expensive, either in actual cost or reduced quantity.
In Japan, tip isn't included, tipping is not in their culture. However, the servers are compensated well(entry level is around $15/hour with the exchange, more with leaner setups), service is good, and that is reflected by food/drink prices.
The tip system allows restaurant owners to compete prices. However, today many diners abuse it and don't tip the servers enough (or at all). That drives away the good wait staff and leaves restaurant owners with high employee turnover, which is bad, due to training and time wasted. I own a 4.5(39) star Yelp restaurant and had some really good waiters. But, customers got cheap (left little to no tip, or only ordered takeout, which is a really good service when you think about it) and the waiters bailed. Training new employees takes time away and slows everything down.
So why didn't you pay your employees more? If training new wait staff is hard and they wait staff you have already is so valuable, why didn't you pay them what they were worth?
I'm assuming that since so many left when the tips slowed, you were paying them the typical wait staff wage of $2-$3/hr and not making up the difference to minimum wage as you should have been when tips were not as good.
I am too empathetic to undertip unless the waiter/waitress truly deserves it, and sometimes not even then. That said, as a restaurant owner, you should be ashamed that you are asking your customers to pay your employee wages. In all other businesses, the wages of employees are rolled into the costs of the product – something that could easily be done at a restaurant.
I know that it's common and accepted practice to pay your employees practically nothing and hope tips make that up, but if you don't want a lot of unnecessary turnaround, you need to be a good employer and pay your staff what they're worth and treat them better. Don't blame it on the customers. It's your responsibility first, not theirs. If you're going to continue not paying your staff well or treating them badly, then don't whine about getting a whole new staff every few months.
Here's an idea – move restaurants into the 21st century and have the owners pay their employees minimum wage and do away with tipping altogether!
Yes! Please do!
Not to mention that WE have to tip out of OUR MONEY the hostess, the bartender, the bussers, food runners, et cetera. They might even actually be making minimum wage.
The restaurant runs on our tips. It is unfair and it is crap – but I don't know of any server's union to join.
I tipped out 25% of my tips last Friday. $46 dollars of money I earned is used to pay other employees. Does it sound fair?
To add to all the comments about tipping the servers...here is the reality. One day some guy who needs a part-time job applies to work at a restaurant serving tables. The restaurant makes an offer of pay and you agree to do the work for that pay. Tips are not guaranteed nor can be expected. I tip based on the service that the server provides. 15% means you did your job. You took my order, you made sure it was correct before it made it to my table. My drink was never less than 1/4 full. Now if your service exceeds the minimal expectations of the restaurant then you will deserve a bigger tip. If the service is bad...guess what, it will be reflected in the tip I won't leave.
It seems like you are a very cheap tipper. You described excellent service and then only leave 15%? I think that the minimum tip should be around $5. This keeps you from going to a sports bar and spending $10, sitting at the table for hours and tipping $2. The longer you sit in the restaurant the more you should tip. If the service is really bad then 10% is applicable, Good Service should get 20% and if they are great then 25%. If they are excellent then throw them 50%. Just don't be a cheapskate. Where they have kept your drink filled all night and you give 15%, the next time you come they will remember you and your service will continue to get worse.
You would tip someone 10% for giving you bad service? No wonder there is a sense of entitlement among servers..."You screwed up my order badly, let me reward you for that."
Sorry, but bad service = no tip.
Tip 50% for excellent service? 25% for great? You're kidding right? Wake up.
good joke.. 50%.. simply hilarious..
A bit entitled much? 25%, 50%?
@youngturk
If they paid them minimum wage you would then pay more for the food. Its simple logic.
Though probably less than the current meal price plus tip. :)
I have to side with Server I here – you are expected to tip on the pre-discount amount. If you can't even tip the coupon amount, don't go out to eat. Easy peasy. If you have a half off coupon, I still do the same amount of work.
I am a nontraditional college student – 25 – paying my own bills and taking on my own college debt. I spend day after day waiting on entitled, obese, rude customers who can't be bothered to look me in the eye, let alone tip decently. Read Waiter Rant. It gets worse.
For the record, I work with plenty of college graduates who simply can't find a job in this economy – for those of you bashing serving as a legitimate job. Furthermore, without servers, or any blue collar worker, who would take care of the entitled, obese average American?
Also, if restaurants paid us what we make on average in tips, none of you would be able to go out to eat – except maybe Bill Gates. Prices per plate of food would skyrocket.
You aren't worth that much. You carry plates of food to the table, and enter orders into a computer or write them on a ticket. It's not a hard nor skill filled job. Stop acting like you are performing brain surgery. If you do your job well and are extremely friendly and are on the ball you will get tips. If you are lazy, screw up the order, or make mistakes you wont. Thats how it works in real life.
If you don't get paid for your work, then go finds another work! If the prices are going to sky rocket if I don't pay you, then the restaurants and going to shutdown. We will still eat at home!
So all of your entitled, rude, cheap customers are obese? What a coincidence – every bad server I've ever encountered has been named Server Jr.
So go work in fast food and make a real minimum wage, fast food is always hiring no matter where you live, same with retail. You wont though because you are an overpaid unskilled worker getting rich off of the tips from the obese entitled americans that you hate so much, and you know it. Without the obese entitled americans who would pay the snobby soulless parasitic servers?
@shawn i – I'd like to see you do it.
For all you 'get a real job' , any honest work is a 'real job' whether it is serving, cutting grass or lawyering. My cousin (age 50) has worked all his life as a server, he does a damn good job, has supported his family and put 2 sons through college on his earnings. What about all those waitresses that used to work at the diners their whole lives, knew their regulars by name and orders, were basically the 'moms' of the diner world. You mean to say they didn't 'work'???? A good server works HARD and busts their butt. It's not an easy job, if it's done right. But it is a real job.
Oh, and in many other countries the gratuity is automatically included no matter the check amount or party size. For Pete's sake, you're already getting a discount, why the hell wouldn't you just tip the proper amount?
(unless the server sucks that badly)
Well said Brian.
Why do they even have to add a tip amount to the bill? Just add 10, 15, 0r whatever percentage to the price of each item and pat these people a decent salary so that they don't have to grope or beg for the change!
Don't make your server take a 30 percent pay cut!" Huh? Since when? They earn an hourly wage. It's NOT a pay cut to not receive a tip. If you don't make enough, ask for a raise or get another job!
n gratuity [grəˈtjuəti] a small sum of money given AS A REWARD for good service; a tip.
You tip on the pre-discount amount. No further discussion required, you cheap-a$$ coupon pirates.
Can I grab my food from the kitchen myself?
Most servers I meet aren't worth 5%!
I don't understand why you need to tip the server, they are just doing their job....shouldn't it be the responsibility of the restaurant to give them their minimum wage or more, isn't the customer paying for the food...
In that case I should tip the guy at the department store for helping me.
I say "Tips are bad karma".
The reason is that servers get paid ~$2/hour otherwise.
Servers in the U.S. aren't paid "minimum wage" (at least not what most people think of as minimum wage). They are expected to make a percentage of their earnings in tips...and, in fact, are even taxed on the estimated value of those tips! It's a dumb system, IMO, but it's what we're stuck with for now. I'd love to see good waiters make good salaries, and tips become an honest expression of gratitude for good service, as it is in other countries, but it is what it is.
I must be showing my age, but I remember when tips were extra and servers made the minimum wage (which at that time wasn't much more than they make now @ $3.35/hour)
Actually, not all countries do the whole tip like they do here. In the European countries I have been to there was no tipping at all. The bill had the amount that you were to pay and that was that. I found that it simplified things quite a bit and in the months I spent there I NEVER once had bad service. Never.
That is quite the opposite of this country. I have to eat out a lot and I get bad service a minimum of once per week. Naturally, I tipped accordingly. If I get bad service at someplace I like then the next I am there I make it a point to tell the host I don't want to sit in that server's section and I tell them why. It is interesting to note how effective this is. Several times now I have noticed that the formerly poor servers are no longer employed there.
The moral of the story servers : your arrogant and snotty attitudes can work entirely against you and I go out of my to make sure that they do. In my opinion more people should do this too. There are far too many people waiting tables who shouldn't be. Correspondingly, the very good servers should treated as such.
Actually, I believe federal law requires the employer to make up the difference between their actual pay and minimum wage if they don't make it in tips. So if $8/hr is minimum wage, and the restaurant pays the waiter $3/hr, and they only make tips that equal $2/hr, the restaurant has to pay them the other $3/hr. That's why they can tax on projected earnings, because they must make equal to minimum wage by law.
Now whether the restaurant actually follows this and whether anyone reports them on failure to do so is another story.
It still surprises me what a hot topic this is. You can tell from the comments and the extremes in opinion that something is off about this whole system. I am from Australia. Tipping is not part of our culture. This is because waiters and other service people are paid a respectable wage by their employer. They also receive holiday, sick pay and superannuation (401K). Which most waiters do not get here. It shocks me that restaurants aren't expected to provide this. They offer a criminally low wage with no benefits and leave waiters and customers go at it. Waiters in Oz don't expect to get tipped. In some high end establishments, people do tip. But there is none of this, your a cheapskate if you don't tip, or by how much you tip, or if your waiter is worthy of the tip. The service is hit and miss. Sometimes its great, sometimes it sucks. You would think, that if a server is working for tips in this Country, that the service would be better. But that hasn't been my experience. It is equally as hit and miss here. The food is about the same price too. I always leave a 20% tip. More for excellent service. But I have to admit, it gets pretty pricey, and it definitely bothers me when I get a waiter with attitude who appears to be entitled to a tip. Just thoughts....
if it was only food you were paying for, there would only be grocery stores and fast food. youre paying (well clearly YOU aren't) your server to bring you everything you need and clean up after you because you don't want to.
LOL!
To say someone goes out to a restaurant where tipping isn't customary is basically lazy and freeloading, is ridiculous. You pay for the experience of a nice meal, pleasant service and no clean up in the price of your meal. That's why it costs $20 for a meal you could make at home for $5. Not to mention a serious mark up on drinks.
I worked in a restaurant in University, and the restaurant paid me and very good hourly wage. Do you really think the restaurants in countries where they don't have tipping and servers make an actual wage, don't make a large enough profit to cover those expenses? If they didn't, there wouldn't be any restaurants open.
Hope I never get you as a "server".
@GeorgeK, don't assume things about people you don't know, your statement is ignorant and assinine. Waiters are workers just like you and I. At least they contribute to society.
@Truth Your as ignorant as they come, my parents are die hard conservatives and they clip coupons more than most. Get over your elitist attitude.
Tip on the pre-discount amount? Seriously.. you are insane. I can see giving a slightly better tip, but expecting to be tipped on the full pre-discount amount is not a reasonable expectation. The 'poor waiter" thing is silly. Etiquette dictates the tip should be 15-20% of the bill. Restaurants and servers should be prepared for this when they offer discounts.
It's the owner who makes the decision to give a discount, and the server should NOT be expected to take a pay cut because of it. The "poor waiter thing" is reality, good service deserves the reward it should have received without the discount.
i agree
Please tell me you are joking?!! You honestly only tip according to the discounted amount?? You are one CHEAP S.O.B!! You should not be allowed to dine in restaurants unless they have a drive-thru window because you clearly dont have enough class to eat in an establishment that requires a server. Wow, that is pathetic.
Well, if it is a rule that we HAVE to tip according to certain rules, then why not just make that part of the bill? I would tip ONLY based on the service I get; never on the pre or post discount bill amount!
I will be tipping EVERY server I get named Todd $0 now, thank you Todd, you saved me money because youre a snob.
You servers are hilarious. I'm paying for the food. NOT the service. You get a standard 15% tip on the BILL TOTALl because I CHOOSE to do so.
If you blow my mind with your service I may tip more. It doesn't make me a cheapskate.
Rather, I prefer to give my money to people that actually do something with their lives instead of whining and groveling for my change. If you aren't making enough money then get a REAL job...
YOU ARE A WAITER. ALSO KNOWN AS THE HELP... Why are you even talking to us? Since when do the lower class talk to the upper class? Serve me and shut up...
I hope they spit in your food, you would deserve it
Open your mouth and I'll serve you all right...
Your attitude is offensive. How dare you say that waitstaff are lower class just because they're serving food and drinks? I've never had this kind of job, but college friends who did had sore backs and swollen legs and feet from the long, hard hours they worked. It's a decent job for decent folk, and to be this disrepectful is out of line. I'm outraged on behalf of everyone who does this honest work for low pay only to be faced with this kind of nonsense.
15% on the whole bill – after taxes? You are a good tipper... it is supposed to be 15% on the pretax amount. (Yeah – it real is...)
I will never understand why people think it's a good idea to be rude and demean the people who are HANDLING YOUR FOOD! Not smart, StupidWaiters. I've worked in restaurants a long time and have seen some disgusting things happen to food going out to tables full of people like you.
It's not only about the food, it is the whole experience. A bad server can spoil a very good meal and a good server can make a mediocre food experience enjoyable.
Funny, I listen to you and certainly don't think "upper class". Based on your dialogue, I am assuming upper class means double-wide. Of course, there are perfectly good people there as well, just trying to use your own "points system", might make it easier than you. And, yes, I pay 20% for a gratuity, unless service is poor. Sometimes I pay above that, in particular when servers are great to my kids.
OMG, you're an ahole.
There is something fundamentally wrong with you.
"Upper class" and "self-righteous stick in the mud" are not synonymous. Perhaps you are confused.
Cinder74- It is clear you a severe cheapskate! You should maybe refrain from dining out if it worries you that much that you only saved a few dollars because you had to order a few drinks. People like you should stay home and cook dinner for yourself and not waste the time of the restaurant or server. You probably tipped the server less because you didnt SAVE as much as you thought you were going too. Swanson makes a mean pot pie, maybe you should stick to those and eat at home! They are less than a dollar a piece!
I doubt they inconvenienced the restaurant at all actually. Just some undereducated server like yourself is all.
Or maybe she is just on a very tight budget but still enjoys treating her kids to a family outing. Don't be too harsh.
Anyway, she should have read the fine print. Lesson learned, maybe!
and btw ur a SERVER , if some lady need no ice in her diet soda don't be a douche and act like someones specifications is too good for you ... or you don't deserve a tip or a job...
no ice please...
Actually, darling, I'm not a SERVER I am a PERSON. Human being. Picture for me, if you will, five RUDE women all talking at once about the different variations of ice they want in their drink, taking up my time that I could spend with another table. Picture them complaining about all of their food. Every. Last. Bit. Even though I know for a fact the food is good. Picture them getting the bill and being quite annoyed with the autogratuity of fifteen percent (thank GOD for that) and then complaining to the manager that their food didn't come fast enough (they ate it all like hungry wolves) and then having the manager remove some of it from their check.
They were sniffing for a free meal. I've seen these kind before. Stay home please and use the ice in the your fridge.
Wait, we're now taking coupons to reasturants that require reservations? How about go to Wendy's and order off the 99cent menu. I promise that will be a lot cheaper than trying to keep up with the Benjamins at Country Club.
I am too embarassed to use a coupon at any place. I am not going to hold up the line at Wendy's because of a coupon where I am saving 20 cents. I just look around the parking lot for that 20 cents if I am that hard up for money.
then why are fine dining restaurants offering coupons if we are not supposed to use them?
It's not that uncommon to get coupon books that are sold by charity organizations or whatever that have coupons for buy one get one meals etc at nicer places. Maybe not high end places usually but moderately priced sit down etc. Why wouldn't you take advantage of a good deal to try a new type of food or a eat at a place you've never been? You're not holding up a line for the server to take your coupon along with your debit/credit card and take care of the bill.
Restaurant coupons are for liberals who have the entitlement mentality of the party of hate.
You forgot to blame Obama you pansy.
Heehee
Not only that, but you aren't even changing up your line between unrelated message boards. If your going to troll, at least be somewhat creative. The copy and paste approach is only hate party people only.
fyi, the party of hate is the republicans
So you're saying people who use coupons are liberals with the entitlement mentality of republicans?
Very true. REAL men would kill their own food, skin it, create/invent fire and cook the food. Not always in that order. Restaurants are for weaklings. After all there is no need for others to exist/help a REAL man.
to server ... find a real job, serving is for students who don't pay bills, which makes their tips for pocket cash and day to day. if your 30 and still working as a server u need to focus on what got you stuck there and why u would try to provide for your family off 2.13 an hour... it is a part time job... people tip for the service they get not to what amount is on their check (prediscount or discount)
dude... I make 40 grand AFTER TAXES as a server... yep, a simple server... I work 4 day weeks, rarely pull over 40 hours... and many might wonder how I do this...
I AM GOOD AT WHAT I DO. I don't like all my customers, mind you... many pretentious prigs, based on my observations... but they would never know it. Frankly, we are underpaid actors, or hookers – I give them pleasure for an evening in exchange for money.
So before you go on about how servers need to get real jobs... consider that a lot of us actually enjoy our careers, make good money... and are decent people with families and bills and responsibilities.
George... I have no idea where to begin. You are a clown. To judge someone by the career is completely ridiculous. People are people and do what they can to get by. Who knows what happened in someone's life where they wound up being a server. And by the way, some of the servers I have worked with in my 10+ years as a cook have been some of the hardest working people I have ever met. Get off of your high horse, get a clue, and shut your mouth. Twit.
I was a server all through college, and went back down that path after being laid off (the great October of '08). I don't know where you eat out, but at 4-5 star restaurants, you will hardly ever find a server under the age of 30. Nicer, more expensive, and more popular places = better, more experienced, and more committed servers. I most recently bartended at an upscale Italian place in Dallas. Everybody there made at least 40k (some over 100k), and everybody was intelligent and educated...accountant, chiropractor, attorney. I was a petroleum landman. Sh17 happens, and we sometimes find ourselves being underemployed. Don't hate on somebody's just because their method of putting food on their table begins with putting food on yours.
Very well said Former Server!
George, you can't go to most good restaurants and find youngsters working. Most staff are mature persons who wait professionally, and have done so for many years. It's a lucrative job for these individuals, too. I have a friend who owns two restaurants in Manhattan and at least one of his hosts takes home as much money as he does!
Do you get out much? Eat anywhere that uses actual silverware? I'm a mid-career engineer with a very healthy income and I know servers who absolutely crush my take home. One former Four Seasons bartender retired at 43, off the investments from his crazy income. The big cities are FULL of six figure servers; but you won't run into any of them at your local McD or coupon pushing chain restaurant. Part time job for kids? The servers at the places I eat regularly could buy and sell you before they serve breakfast; get a clue!
cindor74, nobody forced you to go. How petty are you?
Hear Hear! Thank you Ms. Nemser, couldn't have said it better myself!
Yes, you cheap skates. Please, please please tip on the pre-discounted amount.
We (servers) are making our living in this crappy economy. You may not be able to spend a lot of money eating out – that means our livelihoods and ability to sustain ourselves is decreasing too. If you can't afford to tip – do NOT come to the restaurant.
By the way – please, everyone, don't be 'those kind of women' who need to specify the amount of ice they need: none, a little, a lot, a few cubes – you know who you are – and then bitch to the manager so you get a discount.
Dear Mr. Server:
While trying to make the maximum tips from us (who too lives in the same crappy economy), why not also stop being a wuss and try to get a better pay from your stingy restaurant owners, who seem to make hay in all weathers.
Any if you don't want to serve people requesting specialized efforts, try a job at McDonald's.
The system of tipping we have is the status quo. If you don't like tipping, don't eat out. If you are too cheap to properly tip, don't eat out.
Working out McD's is not going to solve the problem of customers not making specality orders. My roomate works at McD's and at least once a day he has a customer who orders a Cheesburger without cheese or a Hamburger with cheese or a . . . .and then they complain that their fries are cold when they watched them pull the fresh fries out of the greese and put them in the bag and serve them to them, or they call and complain that the fries that they bought were cold when they got home after driving 30 mins to get home, oh and by they way they purchased them at a different McD's but this one is closer to their house so they want this one to replace them.
@ Customer: So you are saying that in this crappy economy it should be up to the server to demand their employers to pay them more money to make up for your crappy tipping!!! Why don't you go to your boss and demand a higher pay to make up for your stingy ass! You do realize that most state laws say that employers only have to pay servers $2.13/hour because it is EXPECTED of the customer to tip their servers for waiting on them....right? And why do you have such a low opinion of servers in general? I put myself through medical school as a server.
many locally, privately owned restaurants can't afford to pay the server more than minimum wage, as they have more costs to cover than you can imagine. granted, chains like roadhouses and the like are bigger companies that may just be plain greedy, but that's not always the case.
Second, water is my favorite beverage, and my right to drink it if i choose. I've paid full soda price for a glass of tap water at a diner before (.99 cents), but if the food is good, I don't really care, because that's what I want to drink. I have also ordered the most expensive entree on the menu, along with my glass of water, does that make me a cheapskate? Don't think so. And being a member of the a "service industry" myself, I leave 15% for a crappy job, 20% for an okay job, and 30% or more for an excellent job, however, I've noticed a serious decline in quality of service most places I go.
@ Nicole: This argument that you make only $2.13 an hour is a sham argument. Federal law requires all employers to pay the minimum wage. If you don't make enough in tips to bring your pay up to the minimum wage, your employer has to make up the difference. So the REAL minimum made by a server is the minimum wage, which I believe is over $7 per hour now. I'm sick of this strawman argument. Do a good job, and in most cases you will be rewarded with a good tip. Don't do a good job, and you shouldn't expect a good tip. Simple as that.
@another customer – you are right – do a good job and get a good tip – don't do a good job and get a bad tip ( or not tip at all for that matter). The issue is for the people that don't tip appropriately – the one's that come in and receive good service and still leave a crappy tip. A lot of servers have bad attitiudes but there are just as many that have good attitudes – same goes for customers. You have a lot of good ones – and a lot of bad ones. ps – have you tried living on minimum wage lately? I would have to assume it's no easy task.
@Server
Don't be a high and mighty server, you server. You're just a server.
And I am sure that the restaurant owner or manager would LOVE you telling people not to come in at all.
hey, Kyle, without servers, some of us would die...
you should say this line to your server next time you go out and see how that works out for ya. I hope im your server.
You have no idea Kyle! You really don't just because you have a degree doesn;t mean you can make it in a restaurant! It's really not easy! You need to be smart and have a personality! Which you probably don't!
I always order 'easy on the ice' and when the server somehow manages to screw that up I dont ask for discounts. Just get it right.
i think you're forgetting that saying "easy on the ice" is entirely subjective. For some people, 2 or 3 cubes might be "easy on the ice", whereas to someone else a handful of ice is "easy", especially when most cups come filled from bottom to top with it.
So to the people who are throwing a fit about "how hard is it to get ice right?!" stop and think for a second. When you use subjective terms to order, the waiter is going to interpret it based on their understanding. For you to harshly criticize them because they don't understand what you're asking, well that's just rude.
Be entirely specific. Or, better yet, ask the waiter to just bring you and entire cup of ice and your drink separately, so that you can choose the amount of ice you want in the drink yourself.
You people expect and want and demand so much, without realizing that you're asking for something that is going to mean different things to different people.
Hope I don't get you as a "server".
We tip according to attitude and service. Attitude like yours will not earn you any in any economy.
Well said.
if that were true would be having this conversation Customer 2?
it's hard to come by a great attitude and a smile these days, isn't it?....it goes a long way too.
Well Said Customer 2.
If my ice isn't served at absolute zero, I don't tip.
.
.
.
umad?
@Server, if you can't get the ice right...forget the tip
I went to a Mexican place the other day (Tecate in Spokane, wa). We had 13 people in our party and the waiter took our entire order with drinks and substitutions without writing ANYTHING down and got it 100% correct and 0 complaining or attitude about our substitutions.
And server complains of a request for ice that they can't even get correct.
Who said I got their ice order wrong? All of their ridiculous, nit-picky requests were swiftly and adeptly carried out.
They still wanted something for nothing because that is how they ARE.
My service was perfect – thanks.
AND – as an aside – some terrible stroke of luck got me stuck with one of those women, her kid and her husband tonight. $119 dollar bill (they had to add on the $15 dollar lobster tail). $13 dollar tip.
It is a slow Wednesday and I had one other table. They COMPLIMENTED the service lavishly. That is what we like to call a verbal tipper.
Where do you serve, server? I surely will avoid the place just to avoid the attitude! You be a nice host and you will get a tip. You bring on your attitude and "serve" me, then the money will stay in may wallet for the next host I find!
Well said Matt.
How about I come to your restaurant and tip however I please, and you just shut up and serve me like the wait-slave you are.
Wow.. how pathetic is this comment. I cant believe there are people like this is our country. Some people are so ignorant its sickening.
This wait "slave" supports a family. BTW: Servers are taxed as if they make 15% tips on EVERY check, whether they do or not. This is no excuse for poor service but educate yourself B-4 putting your size 10 in your mouth.
You take my order and bring me my food. It's not exactly a difficult job, nor one requiring an education or much training at all. Never understood the whole, "You owe me a tip no matter what" philosophy. You EARN a tip, it's not mandatory.
Its obvious you've never worked as a food server in your life, because it is a very difficult job. So many people think its "take order, put food on table" and that's the extent of their grasp of the entire industry.
Every single person or table you serve has different needs and you have to be a mind reader to figure out what type they are and how you should approach the table. You have a running list of items you need to get out to customers in your head at all times, you have to time everything just right so the food comes out of the kitchen at the correct time and the beverages too-if they're from the bar, you have to communicate with the bartender and wait for them. This is for anywhere from 5 to 15 tables. It takes a lot of timing, planning and coordination, not to mention patience. I did it for 14 years when I first moved to the city and now im an insurance coordinator for a large construction firm, and I am far from being a stupid person.
There is nothing wrong with being a server... You can make great money and it can be fun as well. Ive been a server and you should never expect a tip if you give crappy service or if you have an attitude. But a tip should always be given. The tip is earned, Even after being a server I will tip 10% or less if the service is'nt at least acceptable.
Glad you feel strongly enough about your point of view to leave your name, Server. You seem to be smart enough to realise that your comment could cost you your job....so wake up and realise that we are ALL affected by the crappy economy and if we can't tip like we used to, be thankful that you have a JOB and a paycheck and anything else is just gravy.
I have never meet a good server who had problems with tips. Its only the bad ones that think they entitled to 15 – 20 % no matter how bad the service is that complain about the tips. Do a good job you will get a tip, (in that range) suck and you will get less, perhaps much less. Don't like it don't work where I eat. You nor I are entailed to anything what soever. If I sucked at my job I would be fired if you suck at yours you just make less.
Well you've obviously never had to wait on people from a low income area.
Hello, Every one. I Agree with Matt 100%. I have been a restaurant owner for 21 years. I directly manage all of my waitstaff every day. I have learned this; All off my best servers NEVER complain about a bad tip. There are two reasons. First they always give excellent service and earn the costumers best tip. Second they are confident enough with themselves to understand that if someone of lesser means wants to eat out then a smaller tip is better than no tip. The good will gained from extending excellent service to a known poor tipper will bring in more business then you know. To all you servers, you chose this job. If you treat all your tables with accuracy, courtesy and respect you and the restaurant will win. It's about building relationships with your costumers.
Perhaps you shouldn't have been such a failure and find yourself in a situation where tipping might affect your very livelihood. Hang yourself, imo.
A tip by definition is a voluntary expression of gratitude for good service. It does disservice to good waiters and waitresses if one tips highly bad service. This is why the system is in place. Voluntary, expression of good service, and a way to reward good service (and by tipping lower, or extreme cases not at all, it punishes those providing poor service.)
Please explain how yuo manage to keep your job with an attitude like that? "IF YOU DON'T DRINK SODAS GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE!" Really? Maybe you should look for work outside of McDonalds. The rest of the world doesn't revolve aroudn 30 cents in your pay cehck.
Sounds like you need to change jobs. I'm sure your boss doesn't like your telling people to not eat out. Your hurting his business. A tip is for doing your job well. I've had servers that sucked, they got a small tip and I didn't even want to give him that. I'll eat out anytime I want to. Unless I bring a large group a tip is NOT required! Tough if you don't agree. Keep in mind that I will always tip to those that take pride in their work and do it well.
No, smarta$$, a tip is an expected part of our culture. Guess what? Waitresses make $2.77 cents an hour. We survive on tips. Obviously, I am quite nice to my tables because I can fake it. I can smile and pretend to be interested and a lot of the time I am happy to be there. HOWEVER – it is those picky tables that need something every five minutes and complain non-stop that DO NOT TIP. You can pick these people out before they sit down.
I do not have to be grateful for your tip. I do my job well – you pay up – that is part of the social contract.
Thats really smart, if people cant give big tips then they should stay home. Now we know why youre just a server, and obviously a bad one at that since it sounds like you get jipped on tips all the time because of your snotty entitled attitude. The restaurant industry is hurting and servers are being fired in mass because people cant afford these big tips so they think they should just stay home instead, leaving you with NOTHING instead of something, and hopefully leaving you without a job. A small tip is better than no tip and a salary at an open restaurant is better than no salary at a closed restaurant. I hope you get fired, youre nothing more than a parasite to the restaurant you work for.
@Server: "You may not be able to spend a lot of money eating out – that means our livelihoods and ability to sustain ourselves is decreasing too. If you can't afford to tip – do NOT come to the restaurant. "
Would you like to rethink that? If the low tipper doesn't eat at your restaurant then you get NO tip instead of a small tip. If enough of them stay away you get sent home and don't even get the $2.15/hr or whatever it is management is paying you.
No. I would not. If that person leaving an insultingly low tip stays home, that leaves room for my next well-tipping table.
You don't seem to comprehend how much work serving tables is. have you ever done it? Would you rather make $5 on a $50 check or ten dollars, for doing the same amount of work?
So if us cheapskates stop going out and leaving you small tips then how will you survive with no tips and no job!?! I'm insulted at the notion that families trying to take a break from cooking/cleaning/etc. should not have the right to choose the tip they leave coupon or not. Blame the restaurant for putting the coupon out there or offering free kids meals, not us!
Understandable that you want to make money for your work. However, if you're doing your job well, on average you'll make good tips. A few people who may not tip as well are usually balanced out by the ones that tip well, or over tip. So being offensive and just telling people to not eat out at all is just pointless.
Also, complaining about someone wanting a specific amount of ice is about stupid. Rememeber how you want tips? Well that's based on the fact that you're there to wait on and serve the person who is tipping you. Meaning you should do your best to make them happy. If that means a certain number of cubes then by god just do it. It's annoying but suck it up and just do it, and realize that a tipping customer has every right to make a polite request. Yes I've been a server and a bartender. I realized I didn't enjoy pretending to like annoying people and got out of it. I worked my butt off and got an education and fairly well paid job where I don't have to deal with people. If you don't like your job, I suggest you do the same.
The example with the ice was merely illustrative.
I am educated – but, as was previously mentioned, we are in a giant recession right now. I'm also a research fellow at a non-profit during the day. The point of it all is, have your quirky requests – I'll fulfill them, it's all good. HOWEVER – do not come in there looking to get something for free. This table got mentioned because I had them the other night – they bitched and complained from the moment they sat down.
The hostess hated them, the managers hated them and I had to smile pretty and wait on them. They ordered one entree between the five of them but took up more time than any other table I had that night.
The assumption that I give poor service is ridiculous. If that were true, I would not work at an expensive restaurant. As it stands, this restaurant involves a LOT of customer interaction, including cooking at the table, which means we are working even harder than one might at other places.
Final point is – don't be ridiculous – we, as servers, want you to have a great night and for things to run smoothly. However, we are not slaves that want to be rudely ordered around. Waitresses don't start off disgruntled – we get that way from abusive customers.
I have to say, I don't know why all these people are beating up on "server", this person is making totally VALID points. I have never been a server, but I KNOW how dealing with the public is. Most people are rude, and think the world revolves around them. These types of people are also the same people that expect you to dance around them, and will use ANY excuse not to tip appropriately. Me thinks all of the people "coming down" on "server" are all lousy tippers, and outirght lousy people to deal with, in any fashion. And I completely agree with some of the people in here, if you cannot afford to tip, then STAY HOME. Tipping IS part of our culture, if you don't like it, move to Asia!
Server: Yes as I mentioned I have done the job and completely understand the frustration especially with regulars that think .50 cents is a great tip.. it's annoying. Buuuut a good server trys to be as friendly as they can force them self to be and yeah when it comes down to it and your busy that table will wait while you help the ones that are likely to tip. The only reason I even posted is because to your original post and "example", which is all I or other people have to go on, comes across as a very disgruntled server who at this point needs to find something else that make them happy. Maybe this is you, maybe not... You may very well be an excellent server and a great person but your post didn't put you in that light. I'm sure you've met the occasional negative or burnt out server that probably should get out of the job but would never be able to make the same money starting out in a regular job. It's hard to get out of once you've done it for 5 or 10 years. Unfortunately at that point is when a lot of servers really start getting sick of people and get burnt out. I was fortunate and get out of it because I realized I didn't want to be one of those bitter servers so I respect the people who do it and do it well. AS for being educated, I never meant to imply that you aren't or couldn't be. Yes many servers are well educated because it can be good money. My point was that IF you are one of those previously mentioned bitter or burnt out servers that you should do what every you have to do and work as hard as you can to try and find a job where you and be happy and don't have to deal with people, which you may very well be doing.
Valerie: Because while the points made are valid the way they are expressed, or at least perceived by many of us, came across as rude and a bit hateful towards customers in general.
Also – I think there are two 'servers posting to this story" I am NOT the person that complained about people ordering water.
Order all the water you want.
I am the person disgruntled over being ordered around like an indentured servant by people who don't want to tip :-D
My name henceforth shall be Server25
the crazy part is when I go to business and i make a request (special or otherwise) I expect the employee to do this and with a smile on their face, and I don't expect to have to pay that employee "extra" on top of what my bill is just bc that business decides to "underpay" the employees. Why do customers have to pay full price for the meal and than also supplement the employee "server" with money to make up what the business is NOT paying. I know for a fact that the business are required by law to pay what you dont make in tips to equal what the min wage is. Most servers I know take one look at me and my bf and bc we are young they will ignore us bc they dont expect a good tip and guess what, we will ignore you too.. but other times we notice that the server goes above and beyond and we will really tip out... the point is why are we expected to supplement you when we would be just as happy taking the food to go or taking it to a table and NOT having you ignore us for a tip at the end of the night. Oh and I'm sure businesses would much rather have the customers stay home just bc they are not tipping in huge numbers above the freaking bill which is overpriced anyways so that they can pay their overhead...
Two problems that I have w/ tipping:
1) Most waiters (not all) offer sub-par service and expect a 20% tip. IMHO, 20% is the max and is reserved for outstanding customer service.
2) Most of your tips are received by you and you do not pay tax on those earnings. Leaving me, and the rest of your fellow countrymen and women to pay YOUR share.
In my opinion, we should move to a system of the restaurant determining your wage and adjusting their pricing accordingly. This will solve 2 problems (you whinning about people ordering water and you avoiding paying taxes), but will unfortunately create a problem for the business becoming uncompetitive as pricing will need to go up...
On reading the fine print. . .my family always has water at restaurants. We had a coupon for free kids meal with 2 entrees, requiring the purchase 2 drinks as well. Because of the extra cost of the drinks, we would have saved a whopping 19 cents from our typical order. NOT a good deal!!!
Well that deal may not have worked out for YOU because YOUR family only orders tap water. Some people get drinks when they go out eat! I'm sure you were at a classy establishment and left a 19 cent tip. You think the coupon world revolves around tap water drinking cheapskates? They don't want people like you in their restaurants anyway.
Well said Drew.
People like who?– that drink water? Soda is total crap, and should never be given to children. Then they turn out like you.
Well they may not want us, but I want a million dollars too. So what. They get what they can these days, and when they charge nearly $3.00 for a glass of tea is it any wonder people drink water.?.?
Drew – you have no real clue as to the economics of restaurants. Most of the cost is in the servers/cooks/dishwashers. The food is actually very little of the expense. A cup of soda cost about 30¢ – which will sell for $1.50. (The plastic cups can also be expensive.) The markup on the food is similar. (A glass of beer tends to have a higher markup – AND usually leads to higher % tips.)
Re tips for servers – most of their income comes from tips... So here one might assume that since that are doing the same work, one should 'pay' them the same amount. (Funny thing is Asian countries do not have this idea of tips and servers are actually paid by the restaurants.)
Obviously the recession has not affected you, Drew. Glad to hear you have oodles of money. Hope it lasts from now throughout your retirement. The point was that just because you have a coupon doesn't necessarily mean you're saving any money if you have to buy something you normally wouldn't anyway.
I order ice water when I go out. It's not that I am cheap, it's that it's healthy to drink water. I leave my splurging to the meal itself.
Hey smart guy. You actually don't understand economics at all. You just proved Drew's point. If you don't buy enough high margin items to cover the costs you described, then they don't make very much money (possibly lose money), and therefore they don't want you. From your expertise, its pretty clear you are a server and not an MBA.
"waiter and not an MBA"?
As a guy with a recent degree in finance and a semi-career waiter...trust me when i say that someone with an MBA is not a good example of our best and brightest.
What's wrong with water?
It's calorie free, contains no caffeine, and doesn't cost $2 a pop (unless you're stuck up and have to have bottled H2O).
It also doesn't cover up the taste of my meal, which is the real reason I go to a restaurant.
If you need to eat a meal as an excuse to booze up, or you love washing your food down with sugar water, then have at it. It's your money.
I tip as though I purchased beverages and then some. That is not a issue with me.
I agree with what you are trying to say- when you go out to eat, you are paying for the atmosphere and service that you didn't want to do yourself. Whether you have bar drinks, soda or water who cares~ People need to include at the very least a 20% tip in their bill no matter what if you were taken care of well. I ABSOLUTELY HATE when people come in with a $3.00 off coupon and only tip that amount. If you can't afford a decent tip, you can't afford to go "out to eat". Stay home and do it yourself.
Crazy me. I drink water at home and I usually drink water at restaurants.
A restaurant that doesn't want customers because of what they order won't be in business for long. Drew, I highly advise you to keep your day job. (And don't say stuff like this around your Boss, because if you were my employee you would be on the first-to-go list.)
Haha. We go to restaurants for the service and atmosphere? Look at you with your sense of delusional entitlement. If I wanted service and atmosphere I would go to a spa, when I want FOOD I go to a restaurant. I could care less about the service and greatly prefer smaller places that dont have waiters to deal with. If I went to a restaurant for the disgusting service and atmosphere that irritated23 provides I would probably puke.
Drew is right....hearing "I'll just have water" is so deflating bc you know you're dealing with cheapos. The only thing worse is "I'll have a water with lemon". Cool. If you just have water guaranteed there's some spittle in your meal.
DONT GO OUT TO EAT IF YOU CANT TIP, GO TO BK. IM SO SICK OF CHEAP SKATES WHO THINK THEY OWN THE PLACE
As someone who works with food and discounts and coupons, Every time someone orders a water theres a good chance its a cheapskate. Especailly when I hear, "I wanted the free cup" "Sir/Maam that is the free cup" "But it's so small!" "Yes that's why its free" "How much are the other cups of water" "34 cents".
It's not just about that though don't complain to me because your coupon expired, it's not my fault, it's yours, learn how to read.
Look you two, the reason for restraunt coupons is to drive customers in so that they see how great a place it is and will come back (hopefully with friends) and spend at normal prices and better yet spread the word around to other folks. They are NOT trying to make money off coupons they just want to break even with the coupon...duh...thus the discount and hope for repeat business and word of mouth business. Get it? They want more bodies in their establishment that way there is a greater POTENTIAL to make more money for the business. They want everbody that has money to spend no matter how small!!!!! You can't earn a million buck without first making the first penny.
@server: You've got to be kidding me, right? How do you know that person you're serving didn't just get done with a hard workout and wanted WATER to replenish himself? How do you know they aren't planning on staying for cocktails and dessert after the meal? What about people like me who order water, but also tend to order the $40 filet instead of the $10 salad? You'd be surprised at how many people order water not because they're cheap, but because, I don't know...they're THIRSTY, or they don't want to spoil the taste of their meal, or they just don't drink soda, tea, beer, etc.
GROW UP!
Drew–she didn't say she left a 19 cent tip–she said that she would only have saved 19 cents off what she usually pays, because she would have had to order the drinks. People drink water only for all sorts of reasons: diabetes, heart conditions that preclude having caffeine, they just like it...whatever.
Unlike all the ill-effects of diet and regular soda, water is just healthy, does not make you a cheap-stake.
The comments from servers in this posting abundantly demonstrate why I specifically do *not* tip unless I'm actually impressed with the service. What justifies paying waiters less than other staff and then making it a social contract that I make up the difference with a "gratuity". It's not a gratuity if it's mandatory, and having worked as a cook and a dishwasher I can tell you about 1 in 2 waiters is a self-righteous, entitled twat whom you would *never* tip if you heard the things they say about customers in the back and saw the way they treat the people who actually make the food and clean the restaurant. Remember, waiters are optional, cooks are mandatory.
yup. Most people know that restaurants make a lot of money off drinks. That's why they require you to buy the drinks so it'll still be profitable for them.
Sounds like you got 2 free drinks. Why complain?
Uhhh, not they didn't. The coupon was for two free kids meals but they had to buy two drinks. And because they only saved 19 cents, those drinks cost nearly as much as the regular kids meals.
Typically restaurants make a considerable profit on beverages – that's why they offer discounts on food with the requirement of a beverage purchase. Usually, the discount works out to more than .19 – I've saved a dollar or two using these coupons – hey, a buck's a buck...
That's why I never bother using a coupon with the term "Combo" or "Meal" in it because those include a drink. At best you're getting that drink for free, which costs the restaurant about 10 cents and their selection is always very limited.
I'm the same way, we usually always get water if we're not at a place with a brewery or unless it's a special occasion. It's just such a rip off to get drinks.
@Smarter than Drew...
While what you say about soda costs was true 10 years ago, the suppliers have jacked up the syrup prices to the point I may as well be just selling cans from sam's club.(except that I think cans are tacky!) Sodas haven't been a high mark-up item for quite a while now.
We had a discussion at a recent restraunt owner association meeting and determined that most were aiming for an average of about 50% cost of combined food and labor. Then you additionally have rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, advertising and a myriad of other expenses. The overall consensus was that a 8-10% net profit was the target goal (with most nowhere near that level)
This is all bull-loney. Make the biggest stink you can to get what you want. Everyone knows that the squeakiest wheel gets the most grease, and unfortunately the most arrogant SOB gets the best table and the best deal. i've given up on being nice while big mouths get what they want, I'm the big mouth now. I don't really care what you think of my, you're opinion frankly doesn't matter to me, as long as you give me what I want......and you will if I make enough of a fuss.
hope you enjoy spit in your food, because i bet your servers enjoy putting it there for you!
I hope you ordered the drinks. The restaurant gave you a $.19 discount. If you're concerned about wasting the soda, tell them to not serve it to you, but still charge you for it. You can still have your free water. Not a good deal? You saved $.19 on a meal you usually order that you wouldn't have saved otherwise. Or let the server send the sodas over to a table that would love an icy Coke except they can't afford it, don't have a coupon and are stuck drinking tap water. Everybody wins. Seriously. Simple economics. Any money saved is a good deal.
I like the idea of sending the sodas to other people who would like them, however saving 19 cents is not a good deal. Factor in the gas it took you to get there, and the idea that if you were only saving 19 cents you could make another choice–a meal at home or a restaurant you liked better. They should have read the coupon more carefully, but I wouldn't way that saving 19 cents on a night out is such a great deal. It would have been better to use another coupon or stay in.
The Facts.
Coupons are available for loser restaurants, not for the good ones
They treat you like dirt when you present the coupon
You almost certainly will get a bad table and bad service
Coupons at restaurants are a sham, simple
you'd be surprised. outback steakhouse just recently had a bogo (buy one, get one) offer on its entreés up to a $15 discount. compared to most chain restaurants, outback does a pretty standup job of offering deals to its customers...
To "smarter than the guy who is smarter than drew'. Nobody "is an MBA". They may have an MBA. People like you really sound like idiots. I don't hear other people saying that they "are a MS or a Phd". If that is the case, lets have people start saying they are BA's, BS's, AA's or for that matter high school diplomas. You can have a degree, but you are not the degree.
Actually, we do refer to people as "PhDs". You're right that it's wrong, but I've never thought about it before.
A nice restaurant will offer an assortment of bottled waters, so health need not be a reason to avoid buying drinks. If you eschew the bottled waters in a fine dining establishment and insist on tap water, you definitely qualify as a cheapskate (or frugal, depending how you spin it).
The coupon you reference sounds like a Hometown Buffet deal. They used to include drinks with the price of meals, but started offering a lower price that does not include beverages., presumably to drive up business during the recession. You get a discount in this case even without a coupon, as under their previous plan you paid for something you didn't need. We always order drinks, so for us the free kids meals are a tremendous value. (Foodies may sneer, but our local HB has decent to very good food and an excellent salad bar, and - more important - offers kids things they like, plus an assortment of vegetables that have not been combined into a trendy mess that the kids won't touch. Mine eat all kinds of vegetables, btw, but not if they're touching each other or in a sauce.)
Or you are a responsible citizen of this world and choose to avoid bottled water altogether. Many restaurants recognize this issue and offer filtered tap water for discerning patrons. Choosing tap water over bottled water is not a hallmark of a cheapskate.
Sandy, People who order water are not cheapskates. If I go into a restaurant, I go to enjoy the food. Sometimes I'm in the mood for soda, which isn't exactly good for you. Sometimes I'm in the mood for water. Buying a bottled water in a country with good water at the tap is stupid. Most bottled waters say they offer tons of benefits over tap water, but don't actually. People who spend money to buy water are not making the best use of their money, unless they really prefer the taste of said bottled water. I would consider myself neither frugal nor a cheapskate.
A nice restaurant will offer an assortment of bottled waters, so health need not be a reason to avoid buying drinks. If you eschew the bottled waters in a fine dining establishment and insist on tap water, you definitely qualify as a cheapskate (or frugal, depending how you spin it).-
I disagree Sandy. Bottled water is wasteful in my opinion, because in terms of health, with a few exceptions, it is not much better than tap water. Also we exploit precious resources in order to bottle and ship the water, which is ridiculous because you can get the same thing out of a tap. I insist on tap water because 1) I don't need to put sugary or caffeinated drinks in my system and 2) because bottled water is a waste of precious resources. I have a nalgene which I fill all day with water from the drinking fountain or tap, and this doesn't make me a cheapskate when I want the same thing in a restaurant, it makes me healthy and environmentally friendly.