 July 27th, 2010
07:00 PM ET
PETA - the animal rights activist group whose monthly stage blood budget must run in the quadruple to quintuple digits - today staged a pro-vegan publicity stunt at the intersection of W. 45th Street and Broadway in New York City's Times Square. Legendary proponents of nearly-nude public antics, the cadre's toned and comely volunteers assumed corpse poses upon human-sized, plastic-swaddled (don't they know how hazardous that is?) "meat" trays bedecked with stickers proclaiming, "Billions of Animals Are Abused and Violently Killed Because You Eat Meat."
I respect vegans' point of view - I really do (except when they're calling me "sick" and "twisted" and wishing cancer upon me - because while I can live with the slurs, my pals with cancer surely would not wish that lot on anyone, no matter their eating habits), and devote plenty of blog inches to sensible discussion of ethics-based foodways. I'm also well aware that not all vegans are PETA members, nor do they support their tactics. Here's my beef: while the issue is grave and grim (and yes, what person in their right mind doesn't think that animals deserve a better shake than they usually get?) the stunts often just seem silly. I know from silly - I went to art school and was, at one point, convinced I'd make a living as a performance artist wearing cheesecloth dresses with corncobs sewn into them, clamping metal bird masks onto my face and performing poetry about, like, alienation and pain and rain and dead roses. No one took me seriously, and I can't blame them. PETA's stunts get attention - heck, I'm writing about them right now - but do they actually change hearts and minds, or just open the group up to ridicule? It's easy to make fun - the aforementioned fake blood, the lettuce bras, the implication that fishermen are insufficiently endowed, the nudity (always with the nudity...). Plenty of people respond to any discussion of PETA with a riff that rather than People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, their own personal acronym is People Eating Tasty Animals. And then they probably go down a steak out of sheer spite of the bare, "bloodied" limbs waving pamphlets and platitudes in their face. I'm rooting for the vegans and the vegetarians. I'm constantly considering and reconsidering my own omnivorous eating habits and wildly vary my own consumption of meat, especially when I read particular thoughtful, intelligent commentary from members of our readership who abstain. An excellent argument can have me (and by extension, my husband) on tempeh binges for days at a time, but wish a deadly disease on me or toss paint in my face? I’m surely not gonna take it out on the animals, but I’ll likely never take the cancer-wishers and paint tossers (and by extension their group) seriously. And that’s a bloody shame. Previously - Vegetarian activists try in-your-face tactics |
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Dead dogs, roadkill and other dead pets are all tuned into food byproduct at “Rendering Plants”. Most dog food brands are made up of meat from “Rendering Plants” (food processing of old and inedible meat)? Humans won’t eat this meat in the U.S. and the government says that’s it’s not fit for human consumption. Meat from rendering plants is also made from left over waste, essentially animal by-products that would be thrown away. Also when cows, chicken and swine eat, they are essentially processing corn and wheat that humans cannot eat (I do know that corn is not their natural food). After consuming that non-human grade corn and wheat they are then slaughtered and made into steaks etc. Not to mention making a car requires the use of animal by-products (the factory machinery needs lubricants from animal by-products, not to mention industrial chemicals using the same by-products). “Rendering Plants” provide all this and more, so dead dogs sometimes become Dog Food.
Its common knowledge that pigs are smarter (or as smart) as dogs. People are repulsed at the idea of eating dogs, but can eat pigs with out a second thought to it. So if sentience is not the issue, why don't we eat dogs? There are plenty of strays sitting in shelters, waiting to go to their deaths anyway. Why not throw them on the barbie?
oh wait aminuts. what happen to her is nothing happen to her and if any thing happen to her, they will not put Peta in the
plastic bag with the the fake blood on her body and asked people for comments. What iam going to say is i will buy that meat for $9 dollar cash. because their are a lot of animals that need food.
The one in the picture, I'D eat her.
If animals weren't meant to be eaten, then why are they so delicious? Look at the cow... they're big, slow, dumb, and TASTY. If that doesn't scream "eat me" then nothing does. Sorry, but tofu doesn't make me salivate.
This is almost as disgusting as shoveing "Unhappy Bloody Mangled Meals" in young childrens faces at Mc D's!! Believe me if one had tried that with my grandchildren I would have been arrested for the first time in my kife and damn proud of it!!!!
Doesn't goose sausage or jerky sound so delectable right now? I had it for the first time last January, along with deer burgers filled with various cheeses and frogs legs and REAL home fries, all that with beer and yager. It was a good time, just me and my buddies hanging out, eating and watching the game. Those dudes can cook some food! All that they hunted for food, Shooting a deer in the belly and letting him run until he bleeds to death is inhumane, however they don't feel anything from a good shot.
Come on Joseph get real, just because we have the crops and technology does not justify a vegan diet. Don has a very valid point alot people these days do not equate steaks and hamburgers to cows, bacon and ham to pigs, etc... to them the world is all nice and sterile and nothing gets hurt and everyone is a winner. It is all about balance, meat & vegetables, One of the biggest reasons we cannot eat meals like our grand and great grandparents ate on a steady basis is that we do not expend the amount of energy on a dialy basis as they did. All of the REALLY good high calory meals fueld them and they burnt it off building the foundations of what we have today. Do I eat more "vegan" these days yes i do, but I will always eat meat because it provides what our bodies need to stay strong, grow, and stay healthy. It is not a matter of survival, it is what we are DESIGNED to do. A 2 cycle motor can and will run on gas alone but it will soon lock up, we are designed to run on not only nuts, berries, fruits, and veggies but meat as well. BUT I do agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible, but on the flip side how humanely do they kill us. They dont worry about it, they are animals... Just like us.
I'm from Virginia Beach Va, right next to Norfolk Va, (I believe that's where PETA's headquarters is, dunno, dont care) I think they're funny. I wear leather boots and belts and chow down on yummy food's like steak. (Wanna know an awesome way to tenderize and season?) I just wanted to say all that for no reason. (Probably got mad cow disease or something because I'm such a horrible person, PFFHAHAHA, just blew soda out my nose) I mostly just wanted to comment on a few of the commentors, they were typing about "Retards" it made me laugh. People should do whatever the hell they want to do tho, IF they want to join PETA, have green poop and all drink tainted kool-aid in a mass suicide, good for them, less morons for me to deal with! Just let people have their beliefs, I drive a RAM 1500, does that make me horrible because I consume tons of gas? Because Im not a hillbilly ford owner? Holy Toledo, I dont have a diesel! All of you, just keep your pie holes to yourself. Talking, or in this case typing against the other people just makes you look ignorant. Believe what you do and let them do the same. Honestly, that chick in the picture is pretty cute, Id go out with her regardless of what she prefers. How does that song go, "She don't eat meat but she sure loves the bone!" Does ones beliefs really make them less human? All you people are doing is fighting for useless causes. Do something useful, invent a meat de-meater so the leaf eaters can enjoy medium rare steaks! Just dont invent something to make anything taste like plants, blech! Altho some plants are good, like the tobacco my neighbor sells! I never met the guy but all his friends are always happy when they leave!
But judging just from the picture PETA is promoting canibalism... Is that available at the local grocer?
I'd eat her, not in a cannibalistic way tho........
Im a PETA member too... People Eating Tasty Animals...
For every animal you don't eat...I eat two. Yummy.
Very tasty, can I have the one in the plastic bag please?
This article mentioned the outrageous amounts of money that is spent to fund these kind of projects and quite frankly it is sickening. In todays economy people are being forced from thier homes and let go from their jobs and groups like this can afford to pay for stunts such as this one that (protect animal rights) but what about our rights as being human. I dont see these groups or organizations forking out money to better the lives of their fellow neighbor or nieghbors children. People are people and we are all animals in a way. It is natural to want to survive. Its all part of nature to eat. These groups and organizations should try watching the national geographic or discovery channel. I will say its not right to mistreat animals or abuse them but as a human being I have to eat. I will continue to eat meat. I do not think these projects are worth the money that is spent for them.
Give it up PETA. People will always eat meat. This will never change.
PETA's tactics may be ugly and stupid but they work –
they draw attention to the subject. Once the subject
is raised at all, two-thirds of the battle is over.
2/3's huh? What if it draws attention for all of about 1.5 minutes? I see the pictures and videos, sometimes they're better than the best comedy acts! Then I completely forget about it, who really cares what they do, they have a scam to get simple minded people to join their cause and pay fees. Hell, Id do something similar to make money if I was business minded. I see your point, however my question is, does it really make a difference? Everyone Ive ever met has never considered changing their ways due to an ad such as this. My first thought when I saw this ad was "Man, she's sexy. Id buy her at the store!"
People
Eating
Tasty
Animals
PETA would be better off using reason instead of emotionalism. As the poll shows, attempts such as these are a failure if not backfiring.
Take mussels, for example. Mussels have NO - i.e. ZERO - central nervous system - NO brain. Followers of veganism (ultimately the diet that PETA pushes) STILL won't eat them. Why? For no REASON (supported by facts, logic, etc.). They don't eat them simply because they wish to follow their self-imposed discipline. That's fine. That's their choice. Just as long as PETA doesn't try using fallacious circular logic to convince me that I AM WRONG - e.g. it's unethical to eat mussel meat...why?...because it's unethical...why? because it's mussel meat...ad infinitum.
Generally, I think it is unethical to eat anything that is self-aware (i.e. great apes, humans, dolphins...etc.) at ANY POINT in its life-cycle development. No human fetus eating! Personally, I don't eat any land animal, sea mammal, etc. I have my reasons.
And if you really want to get spiritual...EVERYTHING is alive...plant, rocks, light particles, etc. Hook up an EEG to a living plant, then yell obscenities at it, cut it and eat it, or even move toward it with destructive intention and you'll see a reaction...yes the plant is conscious to a degree.
To be a full human one must have gratitude for all things, especially the things you must consume in order to live. That process - consumption, transmutation into energy and body, excreting waste - is the one unavoidable fact of life for now.
PETA has a point to make and many things are valid. Some are not exactly doable in a world that has to use every option to feed itself.
Treatment of animals is a valid point and treatment of food in general is another. Just look at hr processing plants and conditions for the past 80 years hardly anything we would want our children to know.
I wish we could come to a less is more status with meat production and no more hormone use in meat. We should adopt a European hormone meat policy. There's enough cancer already in society.
A friend runs the sandwich-wagon that stops almost across the street from PETA HQ in Norfolk, Va, and there are days he runs out of MEAT trying to fill the orders of the people around there. I understand he pulls in reinforcements when there is a big PETA campaign going on because the Other PETA counter protests there. The truck spot pays the bills! I wonder if a steak restaurant would do well upwind....
these displays of human death show nothing but dpravity in the minds of those who staged this lost in there cushoined American lives theyve lost touch with reality and the order of life IDIOTS !
ever tried to befriend a wild boar? we are thought of as meat to carnivorous animals no more or less than they are scientifically proven to offer sustaining dietary nutrition to us! those who romanticize the wild should go out into the wild and get 'educated' on the verities of living as a beast – they would sooner die petting than dancing around the campfire with these animals!
I know that everyone has their own opinion, but do they have to have the lady covered in blood like that! I'm sure there are other ways of displaying your feelings or ideas.
http://www.patscowindshieldrepair.com
That person may not like the "They make me want to eat meat...answer in the poll, but 50% of the responders feel that way about PETA.
PETA is a joke. They are just another group of money grubbing hypocrites...They even run a KILL SHELTER!! Look it up.
Peta is unAmerican and anti Christian. They can have all the opinions they want on how animals should be treated or on what they themselves should eat. But when they try to cram it down my throat then that's different. They would love to be little dictators. Bunch of communists is what they are. Oh and by the way - what rights do the animals have when PETA gets hold of them? I can tell you they have the right to be spayed ,neutered or euthanized. PETA wants you to have those same rights too since humans and animals are equal.
It has already been said, that humans consume meat for food, so I will not argue that point any further. I will also not address if vegans choose to not eat meat, thats their choice.
But what needs to be said and understood by everyone here, ANIMAL BYPRODUCTS ARE HERE TO STAY.
Even if you never eat another piece of meat or wear clothes made out of animals for the rest of your life, animal byproducts will continue to be used by heavy industry, light industry and biotech industry. END OF STORY. There is NO animal rights lobby that will be able to stop the use of animal byproducts in heavy industry, light industry and biotech industry. Its pretty much pointless to even think that its possible, without a full blown collapse of modern society and even then animals would become even more valuable as a commodity. PETA exists to collect money as a 503c and pay high salaries to its executives, management and contractors. Its a big sham that young people are buying into and they need to wake up.
Let me say it again, ANIMAL BYPRODUCTS ARE HERE TO STAY, there is too much money at stake, not to mention the stability of modern civilization and just about every modern product has some type of animal byproduct in it, EVEN IF YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT OR DON'T BELIEVE THIS FACT, ITS TRUE. The use of animal byproducts are a REQUIREMENT for modern living, just as they were for agricultural or nomadic living. To believe otherwise is the same as believing in the Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus. Not eating meat or not buying clothes made from animals WILL NOT SAVE ANY ANIMALS because 90% of the consumer products in your home were developed, tested or manufactured with the use of some form of animal byproduct.
So please just stop taking about or even thinking about PETA. They can't stop or affect anything related to the use of animals in commercial endeavors, they simply exists to pay the salaries of insiders to the organization. They know this, why don't others get it?
I dont think their trying to stop all people eating meat, this ad will help turn those already feeling bad about animal rights, rednecks and fat americans will write comments insulting other peoples way of life, even though vegans are harmless
I'm thoroughly disappointed in Kat Kinsman for putting the "They make me want to eat meat and wear leather " poll option and in everyone who chose it. I detest PETA's publicity stunts as much as the next person, but just because they engage in childish and tasteless displays of human stupidity doesn't mean that anyone should go out and engage in some sort of retaliatory meat bingefest. The organization's goal is to promote the ethical treatment of animals, something I think we'd all agree is a noble undertaking. But where they fall short in achieving this goal, whether through misguided marketing ploys or poor representations of vegetarian/vegan lifestyles, it should not create some sort of opening in people's minds to justify taking a stance in the opposite direction (ie: intentionally consuming more meat and further promoting the unethical treatment of animals in the meat industry). The meat industry is abolutely deplorable, and is one that treats animals absolutely horribly and destroys our environment. I'm perfectly happy to say that I eat meat, but I make a consistently conscious choice to buy mine from ethically-minded sources that raise their animals in a cruelty-free way. And I would never change my eating habits in order to try to "get back at" PETA in a way that would affect even more animals. I'm not sure what's worse, people who do this and think that PETA's somehow going to be made magically aware of their poorly conceived retaliation or people who do this and actually feel better about themselves for "getting even" with the organization. Truly horrendous and embarrasing.
I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I did it to prove a point. Any time we run articles about PETA or extreme stunts like that, people respond in the comments that yes, it does so actively irk them, that they feel compelled to do the opposite. No, it's not the most rational thing in the world, but I wanted to just hold up a mirror and just show how very counterproductive those measures are, and the active harm they're causing.
I was a vegetarian for a long time, and at least one roommate of mine in college probably ate even more meat than she would have normally, just to try to upset me because my stance was so at odds with her worldview. I mostly just didn't react, because I knew it would just fuel her.
Personally. I see the reason for PETA when it was established in 1980 regarding animal testing and very blatant animal abuses. Now it seems like so many successful organizations, you are running out of good to do. You think we should live in a world of Vegans? You disrupt and try to disband Jewish Kosher slaughtering of animals even though there is much evidence that it is much more humane than Captive Bolt, Asphyxiation, Gunshot or electrocution.
Newkirk get back on target. You are turning what you started as a great organization into an organization of board "upper middle class." Sometimes scaling down is not scaling back.
As far as your antics in NY – just bored children playing. I am going to go eat a half Kilo Kosher burger.
I think whatever people want to eat they should be able to prepare themselves. ie; growing your own veges, etc. Same if you want to eat meat then slaughter the animal yourself. If you can live with doing that regularly, fine. After working in a slaughterhouse I couldnt do it anymore. You can argue all you like but there's just some things that feel so wrong and that's one of them.
That's simply a matter of your morals bud, I know plenty of hunters who shoot to kill then field dress their prey for more than the game, they do it to eat. I understand your inability to continue your job, however some people have different morals. I'll be hunting for my first time this year, if I like it, I will continue to do it, however if I don't, then I wont, Simple as that. Its a matter of your ability to handle what you do. Mmmmmm, goose jerky or sausage sounds good right now!
As a former vegan who now eats meat, I am on both sides of the argument – but you're all dead wrong about PETA. If it wasn't for their eye-catching displays and media sensationalism – including getting household name celebrities to endorse the vegan diet, then there wouldn't be the avenue available to them to get their investigations out there in the media. It's their investigations and exposé's that are the real reason these people work hard-core for saving animals – it's not just because it's a "cute little bunny" it's because any mistreatment to animals is completely unjustified.
And don't give me petakillsanimals.com – that's a front site courtesy of Phillip Morris (who incidentally don't like PETA because if they get their way it means Phillip Morris can't force monkeys to ingest cigarette smoke to find out DUH if it causes cancer..! This is STILL happening by the way, years and years after we already knew) try http://consumerdeception.com instead!
PETA aren't the bad guys here, advocating a less violent way of life? Asking that you think where your food comes from in realistic terms? Making sure that animals don't suffer needlessly.. Anyone who thinks that animals are here for our use is extremely selfish and needs to take a big picture view of the world.
Oh, and also – PETA has never, doesn't and will never act in violence, break into places, set fire to anything, destroy property – if you think they do then you're sorely mistaken – they are an NGO like all others and any breaking of the law would result in their status being removed, you think they honestly would allow that? Get real
Um, and you eat meat now because...?
sorry pookie,
One can be correct about the sponsors of an information source, but, as usual, you attack them and NOT the information provided.
PETA, ALF, HSUS... all one and the same, same people, same board members..etc..etc..etc..
and guess what... they ARE supporting, encouraging, and DOING the various acts of vandalism and terrorism.
exactly the same as watson and his SSCS... simple terrorists...tho, in watsons cause and case, a totally INCOMPETENT terrorist.
I suggest YOU get real
As a person raised on a farm with cattle, hogs, goats, ckickens, ducks, and horses, I recognize that meat does not come from the grocery store where it is raised on beds of styrofoam and shrinkwrap. If people weren't crowded into cities where they have lost complete touch with their roots, their ties to the land and its bounty, their ancestral roots, their very identities, we wouldn't even be having these silly debates. Man is an omnivore, just like pigs, bears, racoons, and YES even those cute little deer that eat baby birds right out of their nests.
Ignorant, clueless, uninformed, sheeplike city people are embarrassing members of the human race.
If your argument is that the growth of the urban world caused vegetarianism, you may be correct. And you may wish to realize the implications of that statement. But being vegetarian or vegan is a personal choice and what is "identity" if not defining oneself? What right do you have to call that choice "ignorant?" Vegetarians are a minority, so choosing to be one is the exact opposite of sheeplike behavior. Furthermore, the case of mankind and other animals as obligate omnivores is a useless comparison. Animals engage in omnivorous behavior for survival. Man is able to avoid this unfortunate situation, so no obligation to eat meat exists, just a desire for selfish indulgence. Your appeal of man as a traditional omnivore is just a poorly disguised logical fallacy. Just because it's ancestral doesn't mean it's right or even preferable.
Joseph get real, just because we have the crops and technology does not justify a vegan diet. Don has a very valid point alot people these days do not equate steaks and hamburgers to cows, bacon and ham to pigs, etc... to them the world is all nice and sterile and nothing gets hurt and everyone is a winner. It is all about balance, meat & vegetables, One of the biggest reasons we cannot eat meals like our grand and great grandparents ate on a steady basis is that we do not expend the amount of energy on a dialy basis as they did. All of the REALLY good high calory meals fueld them and they burnt it off building the foundations of what we have today. Do I eat more "vegan" these days yes i do, but I will always eat meat because it provides what our bodies need to stay strong, grow, and stay healthy. It is not a matter of survival, it is what we are DESIGNED to do. A 2 cycle motor can and will run on gas alone but it will soon lock up, we are designed to run on not only nuts, berries, fruits, and veggies but meat as well. BUT I do agree that animals should be slaughtered as humanely as possible, but on the flip side how humanely do they kill us. They dont worry about it, they are animals... Just like us.
People who voted "They make me want to eat meat and wear leather" should be shot
why should people who voted "they make me want to eat meat and wear leather" should be shot? aren't human beings suppose to be Omnivores? people are voting eating meat bc they don't like PETA.
Peta kill more that 90% of animals in it's care – http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petasdirtysecret.cfm so far peta have killed thousands of animals that are suitable for re-homing because it's cheaper and means they can afford all the stupid stunts (like this one).
I have no time for people that pull stupid stunts instead of helping their cause. Groups like Peta ruin the names of good groups like the WWF.
Well I got to say WOW! You know I put these folks up there with the Bible thumpers who say we need to kill every one! I mean hey A life is a life! I mean a head of lettuce has a life and they are killing them.Beans and brussel sprouts have a life and they are killing them too! Hey life is life when you are standing up for one type you should not be hypercritical! I figure it this way. We can not hunt and eat the bunny's and bears. The cows, sheep and chickens are raised to be eaten!
Any Question on what I eat! I don't think So!
I'll take some breast meat & a couple of thighs
Interesting, most PETA people support abortions as a woman's right, but a person can;t choose to eat the meat of an animal??? In addition, the staged photo looks like the anti-abortion depictions, just larger.
I *highly* recommend Michael Pollan's book "An Omnivore's Dilemma"
it will tell you all you need to know about the current state of the food industry and how it will inevitably collapse on itself, soon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omnivore%27s_Dilemma
Oh yeah, another thing, When they stopped feeding livestock with grass (there isn't enough grass for all the animals they slaughter for meat) and give them corn (high sugar, no protein) the meat is just not as healthy as it was when people were "lucky" to have a steak once a week.
Watch Fast Food Nation! Feces in yout hamburgers packed by rape victims!
Compare the Calorie content of a vegan/vegetarian diet vs. a omnivorous diet. To get the same amount of Calories from a vegan/vegetarian diet requires a much higher intake which in turn means more land turned over to farming (such as South American rain forest) and more fuel used to grow/transport those crops. While it may be inhumane the way a lot of these animals are raised, it is a rather efficient way of providing food to the world. A solution to these problems is to reduce your intake of meat and eat things that were grown/raised locally.
Sorry, dude, not accurate. It takes as much farmland to produce ONE pound of beef as it does to produce FOUR pounds of vegetables. Vegetables are a lot more efficient use of farmland. But you're absolutely right about reducing meat intake and buying locally grown produce. I am a vegetarian (lacto-ovo, not vegan) and I am usually appalled by PETA's tactics. I've seen them handing out flyers with pictures of mutilated animals out to children at local festivals. And when "Big Butter Jesus" burned down in southern Ohio, they offered to rebuild it – if Jesus was re-built holding a "Go Vegan" sign. They are an embarrasment to people like me who have given up meat as a PERSONAL choice. It works for me. I feel healthier. I am not going to try to convert anyone else. I've often wondered how many of the PETA protestors in front of the local fairgrounds also supported abortion. . . .just a thought.
Someone needs to buy the land directly in front of PETA's headquarters bldg in Norfolk VA and open a nice rib joint. Maybe the glorious aroma of the sizzling mammal flesh will make all those arrogant pricks at PETA who want to impose their own warped views on others completely sick. If you want to eat nuts and twigs than more power to you, but don’t you dare tell me what I can and cannot eat. What I consume is my business and if I what to hack bambi's head off and eat that furry creature than that’s my right! If God didn’t want us to eat animals he would not have made them taste so good. Mmmmmmmm... Ribs....
I honestly don't bring up my dietary decisions because i feel as it is my business. who would want to hear how that piece of chicken ended up on your plate when you're enjoying that crunchy goodness (miss the fried chicken!)
In fact, the only time it's brought up is when people ask me why i chose this lifestyle, upon which i'm more than happy to give my opinion. PETA and those zealots alike need to understand that human beings have used domesticated animals for almost as long as we've been sentient.
Also, based on the laws of survival and natural selection, those animals use us just as much as we use them. We must feed them and house them properly otherwise the species as we know them today wouldn't be here, so they are dependent on us just as much as we are on them.
is it wrong how these animals are treated by our industrial companies? yes but it's not, in my opinion, wrong to use them for energy and the such. It is the circle of life and PETA is just another intolerant group of arrogant people shouting for a "animal rights" by screaming that if you eat meat, you're a lesser being than I.
I have been a vegan for three years, try to eat organically when i can afford it and avoid companies known for their abuse of animals and carelessness to their consumers. Peta – without they're crap advertisement department – can be informative but they fail to really capture people with their stunts like the image above. that's just grotesque!
I dont remember the last time those scary anti-abortion people with the bloody splattered fetus posters on the side of the road really and truly swayed anyone to their side.
Peta and those that support it's approach to these issues really show their arrogant attitude by pulling stunts like this and gives us other vegans/vegetarians a bad rap.
It's true. I look at the nonsense that PETA pulls and I do assume that all vegans/ vegetarians are insane. Apologies if that doesn't apply to you, but rather than encourage people to consider the message, they turn most people off.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I've been working my way toward a vegetarian lifestyle for the past year, but i will NEVER call myself a vegetarian. It has too much of a stigma attached to it because of PETA and because of vegetarians who evangelize to me at every turn. Before i started reducing my meat intake, my friend would seriously never let it go whenever i ate meat around him. Because of that, i ate twice the amount of meat i normally do around him. Vegetarians really need to be conscious of how they come off to other people, as many of the people complaining about religious evangelists are the same way, only with their diet.
Doesn't eating twice the meat seem to you to be unnecessarily spiteful? Again I don't see how you find it acceptable to compromise your own opinions as a result of outside pressure and prejudice. The label of "vegetarian" isn't important, but you're not doing yourself any ethical favors by eating extra meat just to prove your distaste. That's just petty.
Their antics may seem silly and at times even disturbing, but you wouldn't have this post up if they weren't. I've seen this picture all over the internet today due to its shock value. If PETA were running your average "please consider the animals" campaign, no one would even notice and they wouldn't be getting any press. And, though I don't think they're always right, its exactly these tactics that made me look twice at my burger, research the facts and become a vegetarian.
If something about that photo upsets you, think about why. Take a moment to read about how animals are treated in your average food production scenario (I actually encourage you to find sources other than PETA for that information). Maybe it wouldn't turn you into a vegan, but at least you'll understand what would inspire a woman to get naked in the middle of times square and cover herself in fake blood and cellophane wrap and pose for photos.
Going back to the poll question: I appreciate well thought out, informed arguments and viable alternatives (where are those insulin alternatives-especially for those people who have Type 1 diabetes?), but it seems clear that these groups are getting out of control and I would appreciate more scrutiny into what their real messages are. I am wondering if these kinds of absurd stunts aren't just a diversion to keep people – and the media – from publicizing what their real interests are all about.
Point: see just one of the Humane Society of the US's latest efforts – vegan dog food. http://humanewatch.org/index.php/site/post/kibble_talkback/
OMG. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. Thx for the post. I have 2 dogs and would NEVER feed this to them. HSUS can kiss my annual donation goodbye.
really?? vegan dog food would actually make you stop giving an annual donation to hsus?? ALL of the good they do, and you choose to pick one thing you don't agree with as an excuse to stop donating? that's absurd.
They have created a product, which is clearly NOT healthy for dogs, in order to further an agenda. That raises my eyebrow. For a "humane" organization to do so is unconscionable. Ask any vet and they would not support the use of this product for dogs. I will certainly continue to support animal welfare causes with my donations, but not this one.
Caitlin: well-put.
It seems to me that a lot of political movements have two active factions: the moderates and the radicals. You can see this in the animal rights movement by comparing and contrasting PETA with the ASPCA and the Humane Society. Both factions serve a purpose; while many would say that the ASPCA and Humane Society are more effective in that they appeal to a broader range of people, they are also in a way less effective because they push fewer boundaries. PETA does many things that are extreme or offensive, but their vicious tenacity has also given them the strength to win court cases for humane reforms. The Humane Society and the ASPCA are much-needed, well-respected strongholds of animal rights action, but PETA is the less popular but sometimes more effective boundary breaker. You're not supposed to like them. You're just supposed to know what they're doing.
I disagree. The only thing that radicals do is turn well-meaning people off from their goals. I know lots of people who have no respect for vegans specifically because PETA is the primary voice for them. When the only exposure people get to vegans is a bunch of screaming whining neo-hippies throwing blood and insults, they tend to hate them and then tune them out.
i completely agree with you, rachel. i have a lot of respect for the humane society and aspca, while peta makes me and other vegans look bad. however, as i said earlier, they get the message out there, even they radicalize it to the extreme. it's a shame.
i think you summed it up well when you said "PETA is the less popular but sometimes more effective boundary breaker. You're not supposed to like them. You're just supposed to know what they're doing."
i have been a vegan for many years and this is how i feel-
although peta is loud and makes bold and over the top statements, the reason they do it is to get their message across, which is simply- animals are being treated inhumanely and are forced to live in an environment that is dirty, diseased, and corrupt. factory farms are where most meat comes from in the united states and to mass produce that amount of meat, animals are crammed together in horrible living conditions. they are forced to eat food that under normal circumstances would never eat. they are injected with hormones to grow faster and given antibiotics in attempt to get rid of the disease that infests these horrible places. additionally, think about the animals that are bred for their skin or fur. think of the animals that are living in laboratories and submitted to countless amounts of tests- whether it be bunnies getting cosmetics put in their eyes to see if they have a reaction, or a monkey getting radiation to see what will happen when an astronaut goes into outerspace.. or all of the dogs and cats that are gathered from pounds only to be tested on by college students and then euthanized.
even though there are HUNDREDS of animal advocacy and welfare organizations in this country, peta is the one that people remember. maybe more informed people may even know of hsus, aspca, aavs, farm sanctuary. however, the reason that people are so aware of peta is because they put themselves out there for people to scrutinize, but at least they get their point across. the majority of individuals are ignorant to the fact that they are causing a great deal of pain and suffering by eating that cheeseburger, bacon, turkey breast; by wearing those leather shoes, fur coat, wool sweater; by using products that are tested on animals. people should do a little more research into what they are eating/wearing/putting on/in their bodies, and the suffering it causes
If ALL they did was to draw our attention to inhumane, even if legal, living conditions of animals that end up on our plate and in our clothes, I'd have less of an issue with them.
Unfortunately, they ALSO routinely euthanize adoptable pets and it's executives are often connected to environmental terrorists organizations such as ALF and ELF (I believe I got those acronyms correct – don't want to Google enviro. terrorists from the work computer!)
Anyone that does not believe in eating meat or using animals for testing had better quit ALL prescription drugs, including insulin etc.
They should not get any bypass operations. This was tested on animals first and the procedure optimized.
Also many other medical devices such as prosthetics.
AND these people should harass their family members and get them to stop using these as well.
OTHERWISE, you are a hypocrite! you can not pick and choose if you do not believe in using animals for food or testing. You have to face reality and give them all up, not just eating or wearing the skins!
First, there are not that many prescription medications that use animal-derived ingredients. Second, insulin is largely obtained largely through recombinant DNA in bacteria. Third, protesting against past animal research seems like a useless endeavor, as the past cannot be changed, so what purpose is there in abstaining from drugs derived in this fashion? Fourth, animal research is only one possible method, and more and more alternatives are becoming available. The idea is to educate researchers into choosing these methods instead of others. Fifth, if you're talking about prosthetics such as heart valves derived from pigs, there are again alternatives. Sixth, telling of age family members not to use these methods is callous, as it is entirely their choice.
Additionally, I make the point that drugs also go through clinical trials, which may have resulted in death or significant harm to humans. So by your argument, anyone that cares about human welfare is also a hypocrite.
Lastly, though this is something most "true" vegans would disagree with, sometimes being a vegetarian is about choosing the lesser of two evils. A vegetarian who once uses an animal-derived medication to avert death still ends up saving thousands of animals as a result of their diet alone throughout their lives, not to mention the potential for later activism as a result of survival. There is a difference between wantonly killing animals for consumption, and killing one for necessity.
Nuke the baby whales for Jesus!
http://www.matildesmission.org/ < – If you want to see how PETA "helped" save these fur ranch chinchillas from a cruel fate, please check out this site.
It's things like this that make me truly dislike organizations like PETA. They give *real* animal welfare activists a bad name. Rather than simply buying out the ranch and saving these chins, since the rancher wasn't making any money on them anyway, they asked for a demonstration of how the animals are killed to be pelted when they went undercover for their "expose". They didn't care about the animals who died – all the cared about was getting the most shocking images possible to post on their website. They do this all the time to get those "shocking images" – their undercover operatives spend months at a time inside these farms or whatever, gathering images and video, when they easily could have contacted the police after day one and had the facility shut down and its owners arrested for animal cruelty after day one, thus preventing suffering and death of more animals in the process.
Not to mention their overuse of sexist imagery to get their fur-free point across... Ever notice how they just love to get women to strip down for their ads? How often do men get naked for them, hm? PETA doesn't care about people OR animals – they only care about their extreme ideology.
Great comment Janna. These opportunistic exhibitionists do give animal welfarists a bad name and they also dumb down the issue with their cheap sensationalism and misinformation.
I'm also glad to see someone has pointed to the way they use women's bodies and porn to grab attention. These guys are bottom feeders.
I love the PETA stunts. They are always way over the top and usually involve nearly naked beautiful women. I'm still going to eat meat, but PETA does make me laugh.
Can we wrap all the PETA folks up in cellophane? Make sure it's airtight, we don't want them to spoil...
People need to do their research. The stunts that PETA pulls out of the sight of their wide-eyed audience members are far more sick than their pathetic, fake blood-ridden displays.
Can't stand Peta. They're an "animal rights" organization who believes certain entire breeds of dogs should be done away with. And they're just out for ridiculous publicity–why anyone gives it to them is beyond me.
I used to live in Norfolk, VA right down the street of PETA world headquarters. In fact, my husband helped shoot some of those stupid naked videos (he assured me the skin-and-bones physique of your typical PETA employeee was more vomit-worthy than anything else!) Those people are crazy.
I used to speak with several animal-welfare groups. In some municipalites, if you undertake the monumental task of feeding and caring for a massive feline colony, you had to register it with your local animal control. Aside from feeding them, you would trap them and have them spayed or neutered and provide other basic vet care. Most of the animals would never be fit for a home, but spaying and neutering them would keep them from reproducing, at the very least. Sometimes during the surgery an ear is notched so that an animal welfare worker would know that particular cat was being taken care of and usually by whom if it was found in a certain area.
PETA would have the habit or rounding up these registered cats and, presumably, euthanize them. In fact, PETA has the reputation of euthanizing a larger number of animals than several of the local kill shelters combined. They have no shelter facility but they won't hesitate to take that animal grandma can no longer care for but doesn't want to take to the pound because they're afraid it will be euthanized on the spot. Little do they know PETA will do the same WITHOUT the token effort of find a home for it.
They are disgusting and I will never support anything they do. if you must donate money or time to help animals, research your local shelters or wildlife refuges. They do far more on a daily basis on a budget far less than what PETA receives on donations in a month.
THANK YOU for pointing this out! It's so true – PETA does euthanize far more animals than any other animal welfare organization in the United States, and have you ever heard of them adopting any of these animals out? No, because they don't do that. They don't care about the animals. They would rather the animals be put down than be kept in a warm, loving home because that's not "natural", I suppose.
Oh, and the PETA members who do own cats and dogs? Some of them feed them on a VEGAN diet. Yeah, that's right. Trying to make a carnivorous animal into a vegan. It's bad enough for the human body and we're omnivores, but dogs and cats NEED MEAT. Tofu is never gonna cut it for them, because it simply does not supply all the amino acids their bodies need to be healthy. Talk about cruelty to animals!
Though I generally agree with you about Vegitarian diets for normal carnivorious animals, some dogs (never heard of acts with the problem) truly have issues processing meats. You will see a few brands of dog food that have vegetarian formulas, but dogs who eat these foods normally have a severe allergy or other food-related issue.
That said, my heart breaks when I hear of cats on this sort of diet. Cats do not produce taurine, an essential amino acid they need to survive, and it is really only found in meat and meat products. People who refuse to let their cat eat meat will kill their cat, no question about it. (It is also why you should never feed cats dog food – it also doesn't have the required amount of taurine.)
* cats
Sorry, thought I caught all my typos :) I'm an awful typist so bear with me.
I also agree that the PETA protests have the opposite effect on everyuday folks like me. Seeing these pretentious demonstrations enfuriate me, and while I understand their shock messages are designed to stinumate conversation, they usually stimulate me to hit up the nearest BBQ shack. Like any radical sect, these protests really only empower people who are already vegans and PETA supporters and do nothing to bring new minds to the issue. Honestly, the PETA protests I've seen have been just as nasty and crude as the street protests of the "God Hates F*gs" church. I consider both PETA demonstrators and the Westboro Baptist Church to be the same- folks that use shock instead of intellect, and crude exclusionary messages (anti-meat eaters, anti-homosexuals) to get their point across. Right wing, left wing, it makes no difference. You'd think a "progressive" group would have realised by now that the best way to change a person's mind is through constructive education, not brazen fingerpointing.
That woman looks delicious.
Idi Amin used to say that Blonds are tastier than King Crab!!!
AND, there are PLENTY of Blonds. Not so with King Crab.
Hmmmmm... BBQ Blond!!!!
How do vegetarians and vegans feel about oysters, mussels, clams and shrimp? Are they opposed to eating them for fear of their cruel painful demise?
Individual vegetarians probably draw the line at different points – many I know eat fish, butter, milk and eggs and cheese – but the definition of "vegan" is someone who does not eat ANY animal-derived products (including honey!), and many of them are also opposed to leather, etc.
Is it just me, or are these people as annoying as the religious fundamentalists?
They're one and the same. Evangelists aren't limited just to religion. They are around in every facet of life. Ever heard of an Apple fanboy? How about that guy who never shuts up about politics? Or that person that always has to give you relationship advice? Some people just aren't happy without trying to control other people's decisions.
"I'm constantly considering and reconsidering my own omnivorous eating habits and wildly vary my own consumption of meat, especially when I read particular thoughtful, intelligent commentary from members of our readership who abstain."
How decent of the author to consider the cruelty of our food system only when the argument against it is well-reasoned. See, the cruelty isn't really the issue. It's the people who argue against cruelty who are the issue for the author. One can feel free to ignore the cruelty if the argument against it isn't thoughtful or intelligent. That's truly idiotic.
There's a million different causes to get behind because of "cruelty" or "mistreatment" or "unfairness", and they're all competing for my time and effort. Therefore, a well-reasoned argument is necessary to get my attention. Splattering blood on the sidewalk and shedding tears will get me to ignore you for someone more deserving. Maybe i'll put my efforts into the urban poor or maybe into the AIDS epidemic in Africa.
Very true. In fact, this is why I think PETA does more harm than good. Factory farms don't treat their animals well, but rather than advocating for legislation that would make their lives better (like in California where they recently passed a law so now chickens must be able to stand up and turn around in their cages), they want us to give up meat altogether. A moderate approach is the only way real change can occur. When I can afford it, I buy meat from the co-op that has been raised on small, family farms where the animals have had good lives. I *always* buy cage-free chicken eggs, because they aren't much more expensive anyway, and the eggs I buy are from a farm nearby my parents' hometown so I feel a little hometown connection.
More attention whooores looking for attention. Big shock. This is what happens when you let stupid women be in charge of anything. manhood101 . com
wow. you're obviously lacking education.
There's nothing wrong with choosing to live a particular way of life. Just because someone either chooses or chooses not to eat meat doesn't mean that they are bad people. We are omnivores afterall. My only gripe (and this goes waaaay beyond just food) is when people try to force their beliefs on me with fear mongering, belittlement, and little consideration for what I believe. Present a rational and thoughtful side, and you'll almost be guaranteed to have more people following. Why not show the benefits of a given side instead of the negatives of the opposition?
You could have just ended with "when people try to force their beliefs on me" Agree completely.
Exactly, there's nothing wrong with having a discussion with friends, but when people start screaming, or I end up in a scene similar to that indian who doesn't like you littering every time i eat meat, i'm gonna quickly tune you out. Vegans (the vocal ones) need to learn to come to the "big kid" table where everyone doesn't respond to emotion laden guilt trips and symbolic demonstrations complete with fake blood. When they can have a decent conversation without calling me a murderer and crying every time i eat meat, i'll think about listening.
I agree with you completely. I don't get in peoples faces that they should go vegan like myself but when they ask me questions like..what do I do without cheese..(haha) I just tell them about some seriously good food that I have tried that I never heard of either until I went vegan..
As a vegetarian and (mostly) vegan, there are some points to what PETA says. Some. However, their tactics and priorities are completely off the beam. Sure, there are some days (after reading some particularly egregious animal abuse story) that I could agree with their abolitionist views and think that we don't deserve contact with animals considering the dreadful history between our species. However, this is not logical, realistic or even preferable. The real point is to evolve into a more kind, compassionate and fair treatment of those that we (through whatever twist of history, evolution or fortune) we have "dominion" over. Check out the AHA or SPCA for a more balanced view.
A couple of years ago, I was on a flight where the attendants were serving hamburgers for lunch. A woman across the aisle said in a tone of great indignation "DON'T GIVE ME THAT! I'M A VEGAN!" Not being able to restrain myself, I said "CAN I HAVE HERS? I'M A CARGAN." If looks could kill. At least I got an extra hamburger out of it.
Though her behavior was probably unnecessary, so was yours.
Nope, I think it was great. If someone is ass enough to go out of their way to make a self righteous announcement to an audience who can't escape, it is the responsibility of the enlightened and witty to make that person look like a douche.
Stunts like this - getting naked and doused with fake blood, screaming at little children to not drink milk - are why so many people treat animal rights activists in general (and PETA specifically) as a joke. People don't like being ordered not to do something they've done all their life, and if you try to paint them as wrong with that approach, you're going to fail. Yes, factory farming is cruel and horrifically unsanitary, and animal rights is a very noble cause, but there are far better tactics than PETA's extremist behavior.
I find many of your comments interesting and unfair to judge ALL vegans and vegetarians in comparison to PETA and how they try to get their message out there. My boyfriend and I became vegan because of the health benefits and YES because the way factory farm animals are treated. There is difference in the meats you eat and the milk you drink...I think some people are just ignornant to the idea and don't realize it is more than putting a presentation in the middle of New York. I dont judge people who eat meat, I completely understand why they do...but I sometimes don't think people who do eat meat don't completely understand those that don't. And what is really annoying.. the man kind has to eat meat because thats were meant to do.. Times have changed...the meat that man hunted for is not exactly what you are getting from Mcdonalds.
Your arguement was good until the end. Your comparison at the falls short, because the meat we used to not was not prepared in sanitary conditions, while mickey d's is in spite of all the chemicals pumped into it and the degradation of the meat from poorly raised animals. Compare the taste of Japanese Wagyu Beef in a burger vs MacDonalds.
I was just trying to make a point that people are so funny when it comes to saying..."man kind is meant to eat meat"...but what kind of meat did that person consume? the chances are...they barely know.
Personally I don't think it matters where the meat originated. Even more natural beef is a potentially unhealthy source of nutrition.
PETA = People Eating Tasty Animals.
You forgot meat is murder, tasty, tasty murder.
While I don't agree with every aspect of PETA's mission, I do recognize exactly why they go to such lengths to get attention.
The practical purpose of outrageous public displays is to generate media sensationalism. Without a sensational story or act, the media simply will not take the time to address the issues PETA is involved in.
I used to support Peta through donations, the same way I do for HSUS and ASPCA, even though I'm not a vegetarian. But their extremist antics made me stop a few years ago.
HSUS is in league w/PETA (share some board members) . Better to support AHA
The ASPCA isn't much better then PETA
Neither of them are on the crazy ledge with PETA. Makes me happy (and enjoy a tax deduction) to donate for the animals. But am I having chicken for dinner? Yes. Am I throwing out my leather shoes? No. But I do believe that they deserve to be treated humanely.
exactly, certain aspects of farming animals for meat isn't plesant but humans have to eat. I can't imagine a non meat diet. Certain practices I do not agree with for instance Veal I won't eat it because the baby calfs are basically tied up and starved to death before being killed for their tender meat..never have nor ever will eat it.
I'm with you on the veal thing, and lamb too. Haven't had either in years.
what do they do to lamb?
They're generally killed at 6-8 months old. Always seemed kind of sad to me, so I just don't partake. Personal morality line ;)
Brian – yes, veal calves are tied up ("stanchioned") for their short lives, but NOT starved... they have nothing to do but eat. That's the large-scale US production method. There are ethically raised, milk and grass fed veal producers, but the price is very high, as it is for any organic or free-range meat.
Becky – I support your right to not eat baby sheep... but they are tasty, and generally better-treated than some of your other choices.
I'm guessing you never lived on a farm. Pigs are slaughtered around 6-8 months. Chickens anywhere from 3-12 weeks. Cows get a full 2 years. If you let an any animal live long enough its meat (flesh) isn't all tender and yummy. So no matter what kind of meat you are eating, that animal was a infant when it was killed. If you eat meat from any type of commercial source, its all the better though. Life for these animals is torture. The shorter it is, the better.
The meaning of the word Vegitarian – derived from American Native Indian – means Lousy Hunter LOL
This doesn't even really need to be refuted, but any common dictionary can show you that it is just a composition of "vegetable" and "-arian." Both have Latin origins.
Dude, can't recognise a joke when you see one? Sure, a lame joke, but still...
regardless how you personally feel about PETA (and i personally think they are spoiled and deluded), we should be grateful to be able to be this picky about what we eat!
"try and Hannis" sorry spell check it is supposed to be harness
In some places like Utah, the vegans are considered a terrorist organization, after a few of there member burned down a few leather factories, Mink farms and restaurants that sell meat... They just arrested a vegan in Utah Colorado area for starting fires.... Any group that uses force to make its point is a terrorist organization.. They are doing a lot more harm to there cause than they help that is for sure. Look at the poll results. 47% said they want to eat more meat after seeing such a stupid act. I love how they use the same tactics the Nazi used to gain power, target the kids with your propaganda, try and Hannis the natural rebellious nature of teenagers by pointing out there would be faults and turn the kids against there parents. Look at the comic books put a few years ago that told kids there parents where killers... Once again that backfired and blew up in there faces...
The use of force does not make one a terrorist, it the use of terror that makes one a terrorist. Bomb disposal unit use force, yet they are not terrorists. Lighting fires, staging bloody protests, and attacking people can make you a terrorist. I would like to see PETA, if they really believe their views go after biker gangs.
Argumentum ad hitleram. Every government, even ours, uses propaganda. It's part of the dissemination of information.
Adolf Hitler brushed his teeth. You brush your teeth. Does that mean you're going to commit genocide?
Given that most vegans are also liberals, I think we should only expect this from the party of hate.
RIght, so by your assumption it is fair to label all Republicans souless butchers (i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan).
That is, without a doubt, the dumbest thing I have ever heard read.
Linda McCartney, an amazing vegetarian, died of brest cancer.
Thats impossible according the vegans only meat, fossil fuels, and republicans cause cancer.
One exception does not disprove anything. It doesn't invalidate the fact that vegans and vegetarians are at a reduced risk of cancer. But trying to use an anecdote as an argument is an example of a logical malignancy.
If i wasn't really watching my weight and my meat intake, i'd go buy 3 burgers every time i was harassed by one of the PETA fundamentalists. On a college campus it's hard to miss them. However, i do have to say that one of them has been respectful, and thus i have respect for him. He just stands there with pamphlets and doesn't try to force them on anyone. This is opposed to the rest of them who yell and scream and throw tantrums. I have pretty much cut meat out of my diet (for health reasons), but i'm not going vegetarian because PETA and their ilk have attached a stigma to the word and the lifestyle. Congrats guys, you are driving away normal people who would otherwise have been on your side.
I agree entirely that PETA uses questionable and useless tactics in their attempts at converting others. However, I think there is something equally abhorrent about someone refusing to make their preferred lifestyle choice just because of the stigma attached to it. It's a question of self-respect, when someone compromises their own views due to the judgment and prejudices of others.
People were engineered to be omnivorous. Thats why we have teeth that tear and teeth that grind, Everything in moderation – that means both meat and vegetables. I do believe that we should treat and butcher the animals that were raised as food in a humane way – no tyson chicken for me – but I will continue to eat meat and god help the person that tries to stop me.
I agree with your arguement about balance. But and there always is one, you seem to forget that you have molar to grind with much like the vegetarian animal the horse. You also have a long colon, carnivores have a short one. You have however pointed out that you have canines, you left out that the brain can function on ketones a sugar produced by the chemical breakdown of protein in the body.
Both of these statements forget the main counterpoint of the original argument. That is to say, just because we can eat meat, doesn't meant that we should. And especially because doing so is unnecessary and potentially harmful to both our own health and to the planet.
Jesse, she SAID that we have OMNIVOROUS dentition... teeth for cutting and teeth for grinding. As has been pointed out previously, we are adapted to eat and thrive on a variety of foods – animal proteins as well as carbs and other plant materials... but NOT cellulose. To digest and utilise cellulose we would need guts like howler monkeys or orangutans, housing a very long large intestine to accommodate the fermentation and accompanying gas production. So no, we could not subsist on a horse's diet, and even if you could somehow engineer a human system to work solely on leaves and such, like orangs, remember that orangs live an extremely low-energy lifestyle... even gorillas are generally not running about when they don't have to, due in some part to their vegetarian diets. Chimps, OTOH, are very energetic, and also hunt and kill for meat, and eat a variety of insects for protein as well.
And your promotion of ketosis – a cannibalistic metabolism of protein that is associated with starvation! – as an answer to our protein needs leaves out how you get that protein into your body in the first place. It doesn't just show up out of thin air, ya know!
I agree with your argument about balance. But and there always is one, you seem to forget that you have molar to grind with much like the vegetarian animal the horse. You also have a long colon, carnivores have a short one. You have however pointed out that you have canines, you left out that the brain can function on ketones a sugar produced by the chemical breakdown of protein in the body.
RE my previous post, sorry, forgot to eliminate or quote out Jesse's post at the end of mine!
they are all hipocrits, they just don't realize it. I'm sure everyone of them has benefited from animals in some way shape or form, be it directly themselves or a close family member through medical treatment that was made possible because of animals.
Heck, the very medical treatments and procedures that keep animals healthy are around because other animals paid the ultimate price.
So in my eyes if you are true to their cause then no one and no animal can receive any type of medical treatment, vision, dental everything as you are benefiting from what you do not support because almost all medical advancements are due to animal research like it or not......good luck with that.
The idea that all medical treatments were derived or need to be derived through animal research is a completely fallacious statement. Plenty of medical treatments were achieved without animal exploitation and with alternative methods to animal testing now available, there is no need for future treatments to be derived in this way either.
The idea that animal rights activists should discard all medicine is ridiculous, both for the aforementioned reason, and because of the other ideas that your argument provides. First, protesting a medical development that has already happened, and which can cause no further harm to animals as a result, is a waste of time, as no good can possibly be achieved through this kind of abstinence. Second, what would you call the countless deaths of humans past in the search for the treatments to common diseases? Was this not also a form of research, through trial and error, and did humans not often pay the same price for the development of medicine? Which again says nothing of the kind of "research" that was carried out before ethical guidelines existed. Third, what does your argument make of clinical trials, which are required for any treatment going on the market. Considering the suffering and even death that they can cause to the humans participating in them, is it not equally reasonable to say that because humans were exploited, that anyone believes in the welfare of humans, which is to say almost everyone, cannot use medicines that were put on the market following clinical testing, which is to say almost all of them? Good luck with that.
I'm all in favor of a reasoned respectful discussion of the choices we have. PETA's stunts are anything but that. I agree with the premise that animals need to be treated ethically, but don't see that as not eating them. That is too extreme of a position.
Keep it up PETA; you'll keep the farming and food-procesing business going by driving people in that direction.
PETA's soft porn ads exploit women and destroy all respect I might have for the organization. Support Wildlife Warriors instead – they are the real deal, founded by the late naturalist Steve Irwin and presently run by Terri and Bindi Irwin. They are the real deal, conservation wise – not exhibitionists – and thankfully they keep their clothes ON.
They get attention by getting "in your face", but they don't get attention in the sense of prompting the change they're suggesting. Honestly, if I was heading out for pasta and saw that, I'd really probably say, "Hey, let's go to Fuddruckers or the wings place."
It's like a cult religion that they're shoving in our faces. Not only that, they're acting like a bunch of spoiled children who don't understand reality. Maybe they don't care so much about their cause as much as they care about getting some kind of attention! Why not focus on humane treatment of animals – before they are humanely slaughtered? People eat meat – get used to it.
And annoying stunts won't stop people from eating meat.
I feel PETA does more harm then good to its goal. This is a group which will go to airports and let peoples dogs out of crates because they don't feel animals should be kept as pets....this is completely insane and rediculous. Let me catch someone from PETA opening up or trying to free one of my dogs and that would be the last time their hands worked to open up the crate =]
Wow, that is really ridiculous! I'm sure your dog is living a wonderful life because of you!! Imagine what kind of life the dog would have if it were stray?
not a long one thats for sure, a car would end any chance of life a stray dog has quickly. my dogs are spoiled and live a better life then most humans, sleeping, eating, playing, sleeping, bathroom, sleeping, playing, bathroom...the good life =]
I remember in college PETA broke into the animal testing lab and freed the animals in the middle of the night. In the morning the animals were found trying to get back into the lab. I guess it wasn't so bad in there.
I did a brief stint as a scientist, studying genetics in a well known UK laboratory. Only a short time before I was there an animal rights group had seen fit to break in and firebomb the place after freeing the animals. What they neglected to take care of was the presence of some people who worked there – security, some hard-working late night researchers etc – and the fact that animals bred for the lab are no more able to survive in the wild than most of us would! They're used to a cushy life eating, sleeping and having sex in the only environment that they know.
Don't the vegans know that plants are alive...we kill them when we eat or cook them!
Ha! Good point. I don't believe that eating animals is wrong, however I hate the way they are treated . At least let them roam free before they have to be killed.
biologist you monster, I'm going to start a protest group People for the Ethical Treatment of Plants. And stage a protest by sitting here and doing nothing. How do ya like me now!
I once told a vegetarian who told me she "didn't eat anything that had a mommy" that plants had mommies and daddies, and that peas were fetal pea plants, and ruined her whole day. I'm fine with people who make a reasoned choice, for health or environmental or even ethical reasons, to be a vegetarian or vegan, but fer cryin' out loud, that was moronic!
My problem isn't that I find PETA annoying. It's that what they want is not realistic. Man has ALWAYS fed on the flesh of animals. Man has always used the fur to keep warm. I could go on. That is the way it has been since the dawn of time and it is not going to change. Animals eat other animals. Why? Because that is the way nature is set up. Now, man does not have to be cruel in the way it does things. We can do things in a more sensitive manner. But, humanity will never stop eating other animals and using what is left for whatever we deem appropriate. That's just the way its is and PETA will not change that. Instead of trying to do the impossible why not try to make the way we handle situations like the killing of live-stock a little better. Make sure that the animals are not mistreated and brutalized so terribly before they come to America's dinner tables. Its like I heard Temple Grandin say; Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be. Protecting animals is fine and I am all for that, but some of the other stuff PETA tries to do will not work when nature is set up the way it is.
It is easy to repudiate the "People eat meat – get used to it" argument. For centuries, equality amongst our species was not considered an "inalienable right" either, but we take it as a fundamental human right today. Until the last century or so, it was commonly held in almost every society that women were inferior to men, but enlightenment has caught up with us (well, most of us at least), has it not? Even amongst meat eaters, there is somewhat of a hypocrisy when people don't take well to people showing cruelty to dogs, or eating them (notice the constant Korean stealing my dog jokes). I could quote luminaries from Albert Einstein to Gandhi who believed as I do to aver that "vegans are not retards", but it is sufficient to understand evolution at work, and say that evolving into a less harmful society is inevitable. You might not be a vegetarian today, but generations to come will be.
People in gereral are not going to stop eating meat, or using animals for whatever. They are not going to do it. Most humans can't deal with each other with mutual respect. Let's not even get into what most people think of animals. You can talk about all the evolution you want. For thousands of years people have used animals for whatever they deemed necessary and they will continue to do so.
Awesome reply!
Evolution is always embraced by the intellectuals first and then the common mass. One day the not-so-smart will understand that the "man has always fed on the flesh of animals and used fur to keep warm" logic doesn't hold anymore. Most meat lovers aren't aware of factory-farming and the growth hormones that get routinely pumped in their meat. Or they are just a slave to their taste-buds. Knowing that BGH (Bovine Growth Hormone) is used in USA whereas it is banned in Europe and Canada should raise an alarm... but it doesn't and they fall for that thick and juicy steak. Animals fear death and at time of slaughter ALL mammals secrete huge volume of adrenaline which is directly consumed by these smart meat-lovers.
I rest my case.
Human evolution and animal use are inextricably linked, from use of working animals to pet ownership. Of course, the most intimate relationship is that of predator-prey. Catch/farm – kill – prepare – eat – assimilate. Our bodies and those of our ancestors and closest living primate relatives are designed for an omnivorous existence. Our eyes are in the classical predator position, in the front of our heads. Our dentition is designed for a wide range of actions from cutting to crushing. Our digestive tracts are designed to handle complex carbohydrates and proteins (but interestingly NOT cellulose). A vegan has to go to extraordinary lengths to maintain a healthy diet – protein being the main issue. In our current global economy it is easier to get hold of all of your pulses, beans etc, but at what environmental cost?
Sure, I agree that often animals are poorly treated and things could be improved, but in recent decades we have made enormous strides with animal welfare. Customers have played their part in this – buyer power has led to people asking questions about how and where their meat is reared. They have the option to buy ethically should they wish and the more people chose this route, the more those rearing these animals will respond.
I have no problem with vegetarians or vegans, but it seems that they sure do have a problem with me!
However, the argument that eating meat is "natural" and therefore correct seems a little strange considering how very little of what we do everyday could be considered "natural". Electricity? Internet? Cars? Airplanes? Clothes? Plastic? Oil? The list goes on... It seems an odd and self serving place to make a stand.
Yeah cause nothing in your list can be found in or has base components or materials found in nature. Heck I found cars and trucks in a forest, right next trees and squirels and bears. Oh my!
Stop using Palin-logic...Man has ALWAYS been at war with fellow man – but that doesn't make it ok.
"I know you are but what am I" Palin Logic, wow just can't help yourself could you get a bush bashing in there also. try hard bet you could.
That product in the picture above isn't even wrapped properly. And my butcher would never leave pools of blood under the meat I purchase. The head was left on and seriously, if I wanted to dress and cut up my own product, why go and buy it wrapped up in the first place?
Poor presentation and unhygienic processes; of course no one is going to purchase this!
Kat, I absolutely love your response. LOVE IT.
Yep, PETA obviously for all there supposed knowledge of the the meat industry and its evils, commits worse ones. It's not wise to eat poorly packaged obviously spoiled meat That could lead to brain cancer and stunts just like this one.
Well, Ok.
Maybe we should eat fewer innocent animals, and more delicous PETA members.
MMMMMm...that girl looks good enought to eat!!!!!!!
Yes, you took the girl right out of my mouth!
She DOES look delicious, doesn't she?!!!
Thanks PETA. You've given me a taste for human flesh.
Hey, I'd eat that girl rapped in plastic. Ummmm, blonds.
I have never seen "Crispy Whole Blond" on a Chinese menu before.
But it sure sounds good, doesn't it?
Let's stage a Eat Meat-In in front of the PETA offices.
Maybe THAT will teach them to mind their own business.
I wonder how many of them subjugate animals as pets?
Do you think we could get ahold of one of their pets and eat them?
Hmmmmmm... Crispy Whole PETA Chihuahua, in Sweet Plum Sauce!
Wouldn't that be poetic/ironic justice?
Generally, PETA would like to outlaw "animal slavery", or what we sane people call "pet ownership"... the very idea of subjugating a dog, cat, horse or other animal to a human's will is something they regard as repugnant. Really. Read some of Ingrid Newkirk's rants sometime, and you'll wonder how any genuine animal lover could possibly support these wackos. Especially if they knew that PETA regularly kills even adoptable pets surrendered to them, and that PETA itself does not care for animals properly (I remember a a newspaper article from the early 90's(?) about a number of animals including chickens that were confiscated from PETA in either DC or VA due to inhumane conditions – sorry I can't remember the citation!)
There's a HUGE gap between PETA's goals and the reasonable goals of the anti-cruelty and animal-welfare (NOT animal rights) communities. They (PETA) often seems to be talking about things they don't really have a deep understanding of. We as humans are part of the natural world, and when you remove an urban society's contact with animals and nature, you cripple people's ability to empathize with and understand animals, and so their ability to give a damn whether animals live or die. Seems kind of counter-productive to me, if they really care about real animals at all. Which I don't believe they do.
PETA
They are idiots and they are only promoting hatred towards them. This is a fact.
You don't have to be a statistician to realize this fact. You guys (PETA) pathetic.
I agree with Kim O.'s comments. PETA's tactics, I feel, are akin to a three-year-old stomping his foot screaming "No! No! No!" How can you take that seriously?
you are being to kind to these idiots this bunk makes me want to get out my george foreman grill make me a hamburger and watch pit bulls fight to the deathy
Vegans are retards. Every one of them.
using language like that is ignorant and offensive.
Offensive to whom? You? Or everyone? If its everyone who gave you the right to speak for them?
saganhill who gave you the right to speak against everyone?
I did now shut up
DIctionary.com's definition "4b" states that while Slang and Disparaging; Retard means: a person who is stupid, obtuse or ineffective in some way. I think that sums PETA up pretty well.
Imagine, just for a second that the word for an inextricable piece of your identity and experience was used all the time as slang to mean "a person who is stupid, obtuse or ineffective in some way." Your insensitive name-calling aside, your assessment is inaccurate. PETA is not stupid, in fact they spend hours of time and energy constructing their silly, sometimes racist and misogynist, stunts; that's exactly why they're so awful, they should know better. PETA has done more harm to animal rights than the dairy industry's lobby group, because they alienate almost everyone.
PETA gives retards a bad name.
You must be a PETA member.
Every one of them? Just because they don't want to eat meat etc? I did not know that. Now it is clear. Vegans are bad, people who call them names are good. Got it!
No, no. Not because they don't eat meat. Because they make bloody nuisances of themselves with trying to make other people, those who wish to eat a normal primate diet, feel guilty. In a world that has come around to letting others be themselves, whether homo- or heterosexual, sometimes even those who favor a different political party, it is rude and invasive to try to force other people to follow your own dietary preferences. I don't care if you subsist on cucumbers; let be choose my food too.
I guarantee you the "dumbest" Vegan is smarter then the smartest "meat eater"
LOL, how can you guarantee that?
Well that statement right there just made you look stupid
So, Hitler was good because he was a vegetarian, is that what you're saying?
Ok, the 'Vegans are retards' commend was bad, but this one is worse. Can we please have an intelligent discussion instead of a pissing contest?
My religion encourages (but doesn't require) veganism. The reasons are complex (some of it for the same reasons PETA pushes it, some for health benefits, and some purely religious) but suffice it to say that the end result is that I spend a whole lot of time with people across 4 major dietary groups. Day to day I'm around people who have a normal diet. At church functions the people I interact with range from a nearly Kosher diet (no Kosher kills or Rabi's blessings required, but the same restrictions on meat otherwise) to vegetarian to vegan. That said I can say with a fair bit of confidence that the choice between those four diets seems to have no bearing on intelligence. I will say, however, that the few people I know in real life who try to say otherwise are not among the sharpest crayons in the box.
Actually, there is evidence to the contrary. The human brain needs certain component only present in animal meat in order to function properly. Therefore, by depriving themselves from it, vegans and vegetarians make themselves stupid. This also applies to the animal kingdom- most carnivores are a lot smarter than herbivores- who don't need to develop a lot of intelligence to eat grass.
Also, for anyone with some knowledge: being omnivorous is what kept humans alive during the ice ages, when the availability of vegetable food was scarce. We owe our very existence and development to eating meat.
Their choice is their own, but I personally didn't evolve to the top of the foodchain just to devolve into a dumb herbivore.
There's one sitting in the cublicle next to me and everyday I am tempted to throw some tripe over the wall...
Thoughtful piece, Kat. How does one have a constructive dialog when you're worried about being sprayed with fake blood?
The next time you see a PETA protest, hurry over to a fried chicken restaurant and come back with a bucket full of tasty chicken. AND, pass some out to any passers-by who'd like to eat some in front of the PETA imbeciles. Maybe that will push them over the edge.
I have to say I love this article. I love it because it shows a glimmer of hope that humanity is able to look at a particular debate from each angle, and give a thoughtful, rational, intelligent response voided of personal opinion. I am not a vegetarian or vegan but know people who are, and frankly, whatever rocks your boat! The same could be said for homosexuality, religious beliefs, politics, feminism, and every other belief system people seem to create expressly for the purpose of screaming at anyone who would not share their viewpoint.
I think humans need a belief system, our brains need the hormonal secretions associated with a strong connection to something. Where I draw the line is when I meet a person so strongly attached to their beliefs they become aggresive and beligerant to the point where you wonder if they really believe what they are saying or they are simply a**holes hiding their personality behind some cause or ideology. And to me, PETA fits into that mold. The problem is acting in that way only causes others to shut down to your viewpoint, like an obnoxious feminist for example.
I went to the PETA website, I saw the videos (horrible), and for a split second I felt compelled to go to China and raise some hell (anybody who will have seen the videos will understand) or simply find a way to take a stand. Then I realized that I would need to join PETA with all the requirements of nudity and violence that come along with it. And that is the true failure of PETA's tactics because they lose the rational and intelligent ones who would like to take a stand, but are not willing to look like children while they do it.
Sorry, when I was that I had to look at what it was, and I have to say, if I knew she was packaged better and in a steril environment, I would buy her, cook her, and eat her. OOOHHH wait, that's canabalism, we can't do that.