 There's no pretty way to say this. I was present for the death of the pig pictured above. It was a grim, sodden day on an upstate New York farm. A local meat sciences professor named Eric explained to the pig's owners that the most humane method of slaughter was to shoot it at close range between the eyes with a .22 rifle - a stunning blow to knock its central nervous system offline - then slit the main artery so the blood loss would bring about swift, arguably less painful death. The blow would also supposedly reduce the stress on the animal, allowing for better meat quality. The farmers, having researched the matter thoroughly and consulted with the Humane Animal Farm Care project, believed this to be true. Still, as they stood several yards from the slaughter, half sheltered in the doorway to their goat barn, they flinched at the stark crack of the rifle, and then they cried. For as charming and vibrant as they are, it is simply impractical to keep pigs as pets on a farm. They don't produce milk like the farm's dozens of goats, can’t be sheared for wool like their sheep, don’t lay eggs, herd, chase vermin or scare away predators. They're simply not useful, from a strictly practical standpoint, so to buy and raise a piglet is a commitment to turning it into food. That doesn't make the act of their slaughter any easier to watch. The vast majority of the Beekman Farm's livestock, over 120 goats at last count, along with chickens, a turkey or two and a llama who earns her keep as comic relief are housed in a clean, spacious barn. They are tended to, most affectionately, by Farmer John, who knows the name of every single animal on the premises. He, along with help from Brent (who lives there full time) and Josh (who commutes back and forth between Manhattan and Sharon Springs, New York) feeds them, cleans the barn, grooms them when needed (a llama's coat can get terribly matted) and harvests the goat milk that's used to make the Beekman 1802 soap and Beekman Blaak cheese that, in addition to Josh's salary as an advertising creative director, sustains the farm. Walk into the barn, and roughly 120 heads crane in your direction and acknowledge your presence with a friendly baa. It's a really warm, friendly place to be. The pigs' sunken silo was like that, too. Porky and Bess would caper around the perimeter, accepting offerings of whole vegetables, wallowing in the mud, luxuriating in the sun or nestling together in the cool of the shade. It's a comfortable place for a pig to be, which is why Eric advised that the slaughter take place there. Experts agree that often, the most traumatic part of the process takes place when an animal is uprooted from its home and led to an unfamiliar location, separated from its brethren, so Porky and Bess were killed where they lived. For safety and filming reasons, I was tucked back in the barn, watching from a production monitor, and still overcome, Josh wandered over. He's a quick, funny man who wears his emotions right under the skin. Though the tears were no longer flowing, he was still wiping them away and was slightly choked in tone. "I was worried...Brent and I were so worried that they'd kill the first one and the other one would be so traumatized, seeing its friend die. But Eric shot and the other one ran from the noise - and then came back and started eating like nothing had happened. I thought there would be more…" He trailed off. I knew what he meant: Sorrow. But there wasn't - only a few minutes while the pig was still a pig, bleeding on the ground from a small neck wound, looking for all the world like it would roll back on its feet and get back to the business of rooting. Eric and his two colleagues quickly attached the back legs of each pig to hook, chained onto a tractor and hauled the carcasses out of the pen to process, hanging, while they were still fresh. These things are calculated to take place on a cold, autumn day for longer working time and minimal stench. I was allowed to emerge from the barn. This is why I was there. I'm not a morbid person by nature, but rather joyful and celebratory of all forms of life. My husband and I have two dogs, including an ex-racing greyhound and two rescued rabbits. We live among and adore animals of many species. I was not there to exalt in the death of these pigs. Rather, I needed a gut check. While I spent seven years as a vigilant vegetarian, I am now a meat eater, and write frequently and passionately about my fondness for offal like sweetbreads, liver, tail and tongue. I love the flavor and rich history of these otherwise discarded and overlooked parts of animals. To many offal eaters, the enjoyment thereof is a sign of respect to the animal from which they came. If you're going to take away its life, you might as well use the whole thing. I'd thought long and hard and made a bargain with myself. If I couldn't go and be courageous enough to see an animal I'd known alive, dead and turned into food, I had no right to keep on writing about it - or perhaps even eating it. If these animals were going to be forced to be sacrificed against their will, it was only right of me to use my own to be there, in witness. Eric and his team made very short work of the pigs, flaying, beheading, gutting and cutting off the feet. In a matter of minutes, the creatures that had been Porky and Bess, snuffling in the mud just that morning, became a commodity. Eric worked neatly and methodically, flaying off the pelt with a long, wickedly honed knife. In a manner befitting his professorial status, he explained each part to me as he unspooled it, steaming, shiny and shockingly clean from the hog's belly. Here's the liver, these are the kidneys - we'll toss this one out because I feel something hard - this is the "pluck" which is the lungs, et cetera. Don’t want that? Okay. Here are the intestines and the bladder. Make sure you don't nick them with the knife. You want the heart? Okay. In the bag it goes. If you're taking the pelt, I recommend using boiling water to get the fur off. I listened and took pictures so I could remember for later. This felt like meat class, rather than a memorial service, and in that, I felt oddly comforted and numbed. The meaty parts - belly, haunches and so on - were hauled away to a processing facility to be turned into the ham, bacon, ground pork, lard and chops on which the Beekman residents would sustain themselves all winter. The offal - including the pelts, heads, feet, tails and innards - were handed to me in plastic bags so I could take them back home and process them to be eaten. This was, quite literally, my gut check - standing in my yard with a clear plastic bag, filled with the unsorted intestines, stomachs, and other warm, quivering innards of an animal I'd seen alive just an hour before. I stuck my hands in, extracted the lacy caul fat (prized as a delicacy in classical French cooking) and uncoiled the many yards of small intestine. From a separate bag, I hauled out the pelts and sawed off the tails and ears. Time was running short and the sun was emerging, so I stopped short of shaving the furrier parts - necessary before consumption. The saying goes that it's possible to eat "everything but the squeal" from a pig, but I've yet to find someone who's happy chomping into a mouthful of bristly pig hair. Once all the parts were sorted - I ran out of time for the stomachs and large intestines and left those for a friend's boyfriend to come and haul off for coyote bait - I lugged all the offal inside for packaging and refrigeration and spent the next hour washing, rewashing, washing again and then yet again the small intestines that Josh and I would eventually stuff with ground pork for sausage links. Like Josh, my husband and I, much as we'd love to, can’t spend all our time upstate, so we packed the food into coolers and trucked it the four hours down to Brooklyn, praying for gentle traffic flow and no overly inquisitive state troopers. In the car, I sent a text message to my friend, former Gourmet Magazine test kitchen chef Ian Knauer, another fan of offal, and avid hunter. Ian came over later that week, toting a canteloupe-sized hen of the woods mushroom he'd foraged from his land in Pennsylvania. Under his expert guidance, we crafted a deep, earthy, cognac-laced pork liver pate and a star anise-accented head cheese, complete with a middle layer of apple dice - a play on the fruit often served in the mouth of a roasted pig. I tuned out for a few minutes, focusing on shaking up a sidecar cocktail. While Ian is an accomplished chef, I'm an avid amateur - but I'm serious about my cocktails and know when I can be of use. When I handed him his drink, he pushed over a bowl. "Eat this." While I'd been turned away, he'd shaved and rendered down a patch of the pig pelt from which I'd doggedly been carving fat. The cracklings he'd made were perfectly crunchy, soulfully flavored, purely and utterly pig. I took a moment, nodded upward to the memory of Porky and Bess, and reached for another handful. Learn more about ethical slaughter at certifiedhumane.org and share your thoughts in the comments below. |
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You gave the offal for coyote bait? The coyotes are ok, right?
To those of you saying animals in the U.S. are tortured before slaughtered do some non-bias research (not on any animal rights group website or propaganda). Go tour a meat processing plant near you and learn from a agricultural university, farmer how animals are treated and slaughtered. I don't have a problem with anyone eating differently than me but don't tell me how to eat and I won't tell you what/how to eat. Most videos from processing plants are set up to get fools to believe them...
If God didn't want us to eat animals, he/she would not have made them out of meat.
Last year, we had our first steer slaughtered. It was in the same manner as described in the article. My children (at the time, ages 6, 9, and 11) were all there; we arrived just after the gunshot and stayed for the approximately 3 hours it took for the slaughterer to finish. My older two children wept. The man who did the slaughtering was professional and, as a previous comment implied, the most humane of all options for slaughtering an animal. He explained everything he did along the way. It was emotional, but that's the point. I maintain that if one chooses to eat meat, then "meeting your meat" is an imperative.
Whether or not eating meat is ethical is a matter of opinion, and although I used to think that eating meat was wrong, I do not believe that now. What I do believe is that if we eat meat, we should know what that entails – and not even just that it came from an animal. I think seeing the animal (especially as we did, almost every day, on the hillside or laying down in the grass) as a living creature, and then experiencing the emotional impact of seeing it laying dead on the ground, puts it into a perspective that you just can't get from a styrofoam tray with some plastic wrap around it. We will be having our second steer slaughtered later this summer. We will go again to watch. It's not a thrill, it's certainly sad, but I'd rather go than pretend it doesn't matter.
There is NO SUCH THING as "ethical slaughter"
Perhaps "Less inhumane" but still it is SLAUGHTER.
Meat is murder.
Do yourself and the planet a favour – go VEG
:)
The only reason I eat lots of chicken and cow is because they tried to frame dolphin and whale for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. F**k you a-chicken and a-cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to disagree with the writer's comment about pigs "They're simply not useful, from a strictly practical standpoint, so to buy and raise a piglet is a commitment to turning it into food." Pigs are incredibly useful on a farm. They are great at turning the soil and cleaning up the garden beds. After I've finished harvesting in a particular garden area, I fence it off and turn the pigs into it. They take care of all the left over plants and turn the soil up beautifully. All I have to do when I'm ready to plant again is level out the soil. Pigs are cheaper than tractors, don't put out exhaust fumes and are much cuter!
Kat, I do respect you for forcing yourself to "meet your meat." Most people wouldn't have the courage. But I'm curious, as a former "villigilant vegetarain" for seven years, what changed in your concious, you moral center, that allowed you to go back to contributing to the slaughter of animals for your personal pleasure? You clearly still experience some feelings of guilt on the subject. So did you just decide that doing the right thing wasn't worth it anymore? That it was too difficult? This article disappoints me on so many differnt levels.
Where in the article does she use the term "personal pleasure?"
Meat is one of those things that people view very strongly, because it gives them pleasure. It contains substances that cause a feeling of relaxation. But check the Bible - anything that gives pleasure is something that makes people forget about what is important. Therefore it is heavily policed. I don't care what people eat but it is terrible to see any animal, be it dog, cow, or lamb, tortured to death. I love meat as much as anybody. However, the methods employed must be humane. Anyone who has a heart would agree with me.
I am an over the road drivers wife and we hit almost all
Of the states I have past every kind of farm and
Slaughter house possible they all smell of what they
Are death but as my husband gasps for air im ok
I have seen many deaths I would be ok.now when i was little
I had a few chickens i thought were my pets untell they got
Big and dad cut them up for dinner he showed me
They are not pets they are food and i grew up in Ca on an Acer of land
We grew our own food i miss that at times but progress came at times it feels like a down grade.
wow. this article, and most of the comments, sum up everything that is wrong with humankind. "i ate monkey brains out of a living monkey"...wtf is wrong with you? whether animals are "pets" or not has nothing to do with anything....would it have been okay for "massas" to eat their black slaves? gawd, you morons, wake the hell up.
Pigs are very, very intelligent animals. According to numerous scientific studies, they rank just below Orcas, whales and dolphins on the scale of intelligence. A 12-year vegetarian, I now eat meat occasionally. I know better, but I still eat meat. I find some of these articles so pretentious. Killing animals for human pleasure - food, fur, ornaments, "sport," etc., - is nothing to be proud of. We're all lesser for it.
Then why do you do it?
I like to eat human beings. Anyone have a freshley shaved pussy that wants eaten
What a horrifying article.
The stench of these meats ad the brutality of killing animals is just revolting.
You can rationalize all you want, but if you had to kill animals for your meat, your'd be a egan.
The Fact is: No Animal has to die for you to live.
While this is all very interesting I've got something to share with you all. I just saw this ad under the report of another[3] police officer being killed in Chicago. Get it? 3 dead policemen in 2 months and then "2 pigs slaughtered"! What were they thinking! If you find this as awful as iIdo please contact CNN and tell them about it. These men that protect us every day deserve better than this.
You make a good point, but I don't think CNN did that deliberately. What is really freaky and scary is that two pigs being slaughtered for food brings more wailing and gnashing of teeth than the murder of three police officers. Those officers put themselves in harms way day in and day out to keep us safe. Their tragic end should generate countless millions times more comments expressing outrage and unhappiness than some non-event like livestock being turned into food.
You see the moral corruption and societal degeneration that occurs when some people equate humans and animals? Just look above for some good examples.
The only reason these sort of commentaries become much more extended is because of disagreement from individuals like you. Society agrees that the death of a police officer is a tragic thing. But the callousness of the human species has thus far prevented animals from earning similar respect. Do you see the moral corruption and societal degeneration that occurs when people fail to equate humans and animals? The only difference with my claim, is that where the presence of vegetarians can't be construed as harm by means of any actual evidence, I can point towards the harm caused by meat-eaters across multiple spheres of society. Since when did being vegetarian cause the massive inflation of economic costs of health care and environmental damage? Or the inability to feel guilt about causing suffering to living, feeling creatures? The only morally corrupt individual here is the one who would rather charge animal rights activists with wrongdoing before ever examining the same possibility within themselves.
Awww, that pig is so cute. I suddenly have lost my craving for bacon!
Lou
http://www.privacy-tools.be.tc
We may have evolved technologically, but we are still in the cave spiritually and emotionally. There are times when we must kill and that is for humane reasons and for self protection. As a supposedly "evolved" species (of which I personally can see no evidence) we are still propelled by what our baser brain dictates. We are unable to drag ourselves out of our base cravings and behaviors. We are very lazy. We will continue to kill, torture, maim and have little if any respect for other lives (even within our own species). Other animals don't perform abortions, yes they may eat their young if the young are ill. We perform abortions for convenience. Now which species is more evolved? The person witnessing the slaughter of these two pigs, I don't understand her reasoning. Maybe she felt if it would physically hurt her, she may not eat meat again. It did not hurt her. It killed the pigs and that is all. She walked away alive and in no pain and with pig parts. So if It did not effect her, then it is OK. She is only thinking about herself. She is unable to empathize with other creatures. I would not want her as my mother.
Very sad and cruel. I'm shocked, once again.
I was 14 when I first witnessed a pig slaughtering. I see the poor little pig's eyes, in tears. I was heartbroken.
Since then I swore to myself not to allow this to happen, ever again to any living creatures. That's when I became vegan.
The phrase "eat everything but the squeal" is an error: It should be "USE everything but the squeal." It was made famous by Upton Sinclair in "The Jungle," which you and everyone should read again and mentally update for the 21st century. Farm factory conditions remain scarcely worse for the four-legged animals than for the two-legged ones who work there, a social context that is missing from many critiques of the current food industry.
The squeal statement was supposedly made by one of the factory owners like Armour, who in the 1890s could harvest all the humanly edible parts of the pig, including "livers and lips" for spiced canned and preserved products, and then shave the bristles for brushes, process the fat for oil-based products, and grind up the bones, tendons, and gristle for animal feed.
Farm factory conditions remain scarcely worse for humans than for four-legged animals? Exactly how would you construe not being killed, maimed, and eaten being "scarcely worse?"
I grant that factory workers do deserve better treatment, but at least they can advocate for themselves. The fact that these workers would be better off elsewhere only further exemplifies the flaws of the food industry as a whole.
I was wondering if anybody had read this. Joseph, if you read your response and then go back to to my posting, you'll see that you have misunderstood my first paragraph and managed to misquote it quite exactly. I hope that you could re-read it, and then read The Jungle, and maybe you'll understand my point. Really, it's a great book, a quick read, and quite gripping until the last 80 pages or so. And it has a lot to say about our unregulated neoliberal days here in the free-trade 2010s.
Illegal immigrants must be deported and returned to their nations of origin, rather than be rewarded for breaking US law. If you are wondering what that has to do with meat, the answer is that the damb CNN pop-up banner at the bottom of the Belief blog entry on the other thread keeps popping up directly over the "post reply" button. Get a clue, CNN, or at least a web designer who knows his rear end from his elbow.
Try Proxomitron http://proxomitron.info/ – no more ads, no more popups
The writer posts a picture of a pig, wathces them die and then eats them:
"I took a moment, nodded upward to the memory of Porky and Bess, and reached for another handful." How cool is that? Not cool at all. This person describes the killing of a creature just as intelligent as their pet (or their freind's pet), or as the 1-year old child. And they go about eating the creature. No emotions, no regrets. A complete sociopath if you ask me.
Being a vegetarian and advocate for animal protection, I found this article disturbing – no surprise right. I think it is a real shame that the narrator was a vegetarian and somehow gave in and gave up on it and went back to eating meat. Anyone who can slaughter an animal or take part in sorting out the innards of a once living breathing animal definitely has some issues and needs to be committed to a psych institute. Being in this kind of environment desensitizes people and that is why animal cruelty is frequent at slaughterhouses. "The animals are going to die anyway, so who cares what we do to them.." I think the narrator needs to find their compassion and revisit their decision to go back to eating meat.. I mean, once you go veg you never go back. You go veg for life, you don't turn your back on the animals. No, pigs are not meant to be "pets" but they can live out their lives in a sanctuary with other farm animals – those who have been rescued and saved from slaughter like Farm Sanctuary, Peaceful Prairie and others. Did you know Farm Sanctuary has a location in New York?? It is a god awful shame that these pigs lives weren't spared and left in the hands of people who would've cared for them.
@sac875: I'm a big meat eater. I ate monkey brain from a live monkey with a spoon in Hong Kong and even human flesh in China. Homo sapien is an apex predator. Our homo ancestors have been killing for food for millions of years. Some cultures value eating animals as fresh as possible to obtain their essence. This is the reason why some people will still eat pork off killed pig even if technology allows us to replicate meat protein in the future (like star trek).
My biggest problem is for Josh and Brent to feel sorry everytime their meal contains Porky or Bess' remains. What's the point of eating pork if you cannot enjoy it?
terrible
bottom line is that u r still murdering something u have no right to kill and eating something your body does not need. go ahead and have some rat poison while your at it.
A rather totalitarian attitude, is it not? It is not your place to decide for others what rights they do or do not have.
I agree with you. I decide what rights my animals do have or don't have. If I bred dogs for food, I should be able to eat them provided that I gave them swift death with a gun. Same goes for monkeys too if I enjoy eating raw monkey brain. I just have to make sure the gun is registered and I don't have nosy neighbors around me.
I do think human slaughter is oxymoron. It's like saying one can be an honest cheater or a racist philanthropist. Slaughter is slaughter. It's what it is. All homo species are apex predators. We kill for food. We drove mamoth and our brother Neanderthals to extinction. I just don't think we should develop feelings for the animals we will kill for food. For Josh and Brent to feel sorry everytime their meal include Porky and Bess is just stupid. It's bad for digestion and it puts emotional strain, both are unhealthy.
I stopped consuming animal products and by-products after rescuing two piglets 13 yrs ago–they are still with me today. They are wonderful creatures and are much smarter than most humans–some of the comments on here prove my statement. It says the pigs smelled badly–that is because they didn't care for them and left them in a small pen to wallow in their urine and feces. Pigs are very clean animals and only get into mud to cool themselves and to prevent sunburn. This is a disgusting show and should not be on the "Green" channel–as there is no such thing as a meat eating environmentalist.
@Laura: I was waiting for someone to mention that Josh and Brent did not take good care of Porky and Bess, and you said it first. Both Josh and Brent are amateur farmers. Honestly I don't give a damn about Porky and Bess because Josh and Brent were going to butcher them and eat them anyway. They could beat the pigs up and mistreat them for all I care, I don't even care if Josh and Brent got worse quality meat because of the treatment. The fact is, they treat them like pets, then they kill them, and then they eat them. But everytime they have Porky and Bess' remain for food, they cry. WTF! These two are just pathetic sissies. The term humane slaughter fit their hypocritical nature very well.
I respect vegetarians and meat eater all alike. People can choose what they want to eat and shouldn't be criticized. I'm a big meat eater. I eat the kind of things Andrew Zimmer would eat in the travel channel. I don't feel sorry if I have to personally behead a tiger in Southeast Asia in order to eat Tiger meat and use the bones for Chinese medicine.
@Laura, you are greatly mistaken when you claim that there is no such thing as a meat eating environmentalist. If you don't believe me, go to the Sierra Club website and search on 'sportsmen at the club'.
Is it totalitarian to insist that all humans have the right not to be killed? Or, more accurately, that we have a duty not to kill humans? You can't possibly say that this is totalitarian.
Well then, what is it about humans, but not animals, that creates the duty to respect their life? Trying to answer this question is more complicated than you think.
If you say that humans are more intelligent, then you'd have to deal with the fact that mature animals are much more intelligent than 1 month old infants; yet, we have a duty to respect the life of an infant. So intelligence can't reliably be used to separate humans from animals as a criterion in deciding when to respect life.
You might say that a human's potential intelligence provides her an entitlement to protection from slaughter, but this criterion would break down in the case of permanently mentally disabled individuals.
The fact that "animals are made of meat" also doesn't create a reason to release them from protection, since both humans and animals are made of meat.
Sometimes I think we respect human life because other humans suffer when humans' lives are taken. Many farmers will tell you, however, that animals mourn for long periods of time when they lose their offspring or mate. The duty to respect life because taking that life will emotionally harm others accordingly seems to apply to both humans and nonhumans.
Some philosophers believe that humans' right to life is based on their interest in maintaining such a life. They say it is immoral to act against humans' interests in their own lives, particularly if that interest does not result in harm to others. If you believe this theory, then it appears reasonable to conclude that mature animals also have an interest in maintaining their lives. They evade direct attack and howl when captured or injured. If animals have an interest in maintaining their lives, it would appear to be our duty to respect that interest.
In short, it appears that use of animals is usually for convenience or pleasure, reasons that do not justify the taking of any life.
Some people believe lives must be respected because lives are sacred. They usually define sacredness by reference to religion. Some religions can be interpreted to define human life but not animal life as sacred. I can't rationally argue with what people believe their god's rules to be. I'd rather risk burning in hell, however, than take the life of another being for pleasure or convenience.
@VeganLogic: The real issue is that humane slaughtering is oxymoron. It's as valid as having honest cheater or gentlemanly rapist. I fully respect vegetarian's way of eating. However I don't think it's wrong if I want to bred dogs or monkeys because I love eating dog meat and monkey brain. Homo sapien is an apex predator. We kill for food. If you're going to kill Porky and Bess for food, then Josh and Brent should not get all teary whenever their meals contain the remains of Porky and Bess. If you're a carnivore, act like one and not like sissies like Josh and Brent. Be ruthless, be cruel, do not get any emotional attachment. I never treat my dogs like pets knowing that one day I will gut them and turn them into food.
@Veganlogic
Insisting that humans have the right not to be killed is not totalitarian, it is libertarian. Equating human life with the life of livestock, which is the argument presented by most vegans, is what is totalitarian. What makes these fringe extremists think they can ram such nonsense down the throats of an unwilling public? It is one thing to insist that living things not be subjected to pain and suffering, quite another to try to force others to also trivialize human life.
@VeganLogic:
Logical reasons not to consume humans, while consuming other animals, are as follows:
1) Cannibalism is unhealthy because, while you may be able to get SOME infectious diseases from animals, you can get ALL infectious disease from eating people.
2) If we allowed the wholesale killing of other humans for food, it would create a societal issue. That is to say, if you could legally kill your neighbors, society would fall apart.
Oh, and, just for the record, the socially-condoned murder of humans IS actually very much practiced in western society today. They just aren't eaten. We kill innocent people of other nations and cultures to support wars of choice. We allow our own children to die in these same wars. But, hey, it's ok, because its a war, right?
Of course, some cultures DO eat humans, as well. But, seeing as I took your commentary to be a criticism of western culture, I thought I would respond to it on the basis of that.
I will never eat pig again...
Boy do people sure do take offense at other peoples food choices. I don't think people who eat meat should be rude to people who choose to be vegan or vegetarian, but I don't think vegetarians/ vegan should put down people who eat meat either. Some of the vegetarians defending their choice to save animals got me wondering if they use other animal products. Do they wear leather on their jackets, belts and shoes? Are they sitting on leather seats or sleeping under feather duvets? Are they using products that were tested on animals? Do you have cats and dogs who are fed by products from animals killed in slaughter houses? There are so many animal products used in our culture. It must be a hard lifestyle to up hold, and where do you draw the line? I'm not putting down your life style, but I wonder how many of you can say that you have totally no part in any animal that has been slaughtered?
I raise a few chickens, turkeys and pigs. I must say, after seeing some slaughter house video's this is what prompted me to raise some of our own animals. I almost threw up when I seen them gut a cow while it was still moving. It totally turned me off store bought meat. Please don't compare slaughter houses to small farms. The commercially raised animals are treated horribly. The animals aren't respected or treated with dignity. My animals are well treated and cared for. We don't kick, slap, punch or handle them poorly just because they will one day be food. Everyday they are personally handled, petted, scratched and spoken to. It's all about respect before they die and after. I think if people knew the animal there would be less waste.
If I'm going to eat meat, I prefer to know that that animal had the best life I could give it and met the quickest death possible.
I don't think it's my right to tell some one they must eat meat and to look down on them for not eating it, and I don't think eating meat makes people bad either. It's all about personal choice.
what you are reffering to is known as black and white fallacy: things are either white or black, there is no room in the middle. i am a vegan and buy leather shoes from the second-hand store as i feel no harm has been made to the animal this way and no animal has been killed for me. however, if i chose to spend some money on an egg produced inhumanely or on brand-new leather shoes, this would not erease the fact i had made a huge difference by refraining from eating meat for the past 17 years and the sheer nunmber of animals i chose not to harm.
ummm bacon
@tammy...that's original.
This is just horrific, how could a person who has been veg for 7 years justify killing two sweet intelligent animals all for pleasure?
It's not like you NEED to kill things, I'm vegan and really happy and healthy without all the death and suffering.
How? It is simple, swine tastes mighty fine. Those two piggies are sweet, intelligent and delicious. What would eggs and hash browns be without bacon? Bacon is one of the greatest inventions ever. Chitterlings are yummy, BBQ ribs are heavenly, and prime rib of pork is divine. It is perfectly fine to dine on swine, if one wants to.
It is also okay to be vegan. What is not okay is when certain pompous, self-righteous vegans/vegetarians try to bully others into adopting their dietary habits. When they do so, it is no surprise that the "favor" is returned twice over. You can see examples of both in this Comments section. Those who do not respect the dietary choices of others will receive little respect in return. Just some food for thought.
@Ronsho: Have you tried dog meat? Dogs are men's best friend, and they can be men's best food too. You're not going to believe how much flavor is packed into dog meat. Dog ribs are lean and full of flavor. I personally grab strayed dogs and secretly harvest them. I figured, as long as I do it without getting caught, I'm not violating my probation. I've eaten cats too but I'm not crazy about them. Dog is where it's at!
I personally think it's unfair Michael Vick had to go to jail for killing killer dogs. You have lots of thugs, rapists, and criminals in NFL that deserve jail time more than Michael Vick.
@Michael Vick, a couple of my Far Eastern friends told me that dog is better than beef or pork, but that cat is sour. Having never partaken of the feline or the canine, I will take their word for it. In some countries Fido and Fluffy are chow critters, so eating them is perfectly acceptable. As a chick from Hunan once told me "Cantonese eat everything with legs except tables and chairs". In countries where dogs and cats are pets rather than livestock, eating them is not acceptable. The same goes for pig – OK in many places, not OK in Muslim countries. Try broadening your horizons a little. Squirrel is very good and tastes like rabbit only better. Buffalo is also widely sold an puts beef to shame. Both are widely consumed in the US, in case you live here.
I sure miss the puppyfarm.com and the original peta.com (People Eating Tasty Animals) websites. They were great! At least they are still on archive.org, sort of. ;-)
@Carney Vore: Cat's tail is a special delicacy. The texture is really unique. Again, I'm not too crazy about cat's meat, but dog's meat is absolutely awesome.
Jewish tradition also prohibits eating pig. Scientifically, pigs is closer to us genetically than cows, goats, and birds. There is something to be said about eating things too close to us. But then again, I've eaten human flesh in remote parts of China. Human meat taste more like rabit meat in my opinion. Have you tried to eat the raw brain of a live monkey with a spoon? It's so much better than pig's brain.
Since you're talking about Cantonese, there is a special treat in Hong Kong that is so good you only share with your family: newly born baby rats. It's also called "3 sounds" delicacy. The first sound is made when you pick up and squeeze the baby rat with your chopstick. The second sound is from baby rat cry when you dip it into the soy sauce. The third sound is from the cry of baby rat when you bite the it in half. You're not going to find this dish in any restaurant unless you know the owner very well or if you have a special friend in Hong Kong who found the baby rats and is willing to share with you.
@Michael Vick, a vegan in carnivore's clothes or a Hannibal Lechter wannabe? You have frequently mentioned cannibalism and animals being killed or eaten in a particularly bizarre or cruel manner. The article was about humanely slaughtering livestock on a farm, not on torturing animals. Regardless of whether or not your comments are true, they are OT and hence irrelevant.
@Carney Vore: What I mentioned are real and I've personally tried them all. Many cultures believe in eating meat that's as live as possible so you can absorb more essence from them. There are many chicken slaughterhouses in NYC for people who wish to get chickens killed within hours or minutes. Japanese love eating fish alive that's still moving. One famous dish is raw and cooked fish. The fish is cooked on one side while the fish is still alive, raising its tail in an instinct to protect its eggs and you eat that part of fish raw. Some people in Hong Kong enjoy eating monkey brain with a spoon while the monkey is still alive, screeming and twitching. If you don't have a live monkey while you eat this delicacy, how would you know you were served with pig brain? People in Africa eat monkeys too. They are called bush meat.
Regarding eating newborn baby rats, come on, you're doing this planet a favor reducing rat population. It just so happens that newborn baby rats are delicious. They are translucent so you can see there aren't much blood in them. They are quite chewy and full of cartilege. Nothing beats eating little creatures alive, crush them to pieces with your teeth.
My point is you can eat anything you want without feeling remorse. We are predators, they are prey/food.
It's a sad statement about how far our society has let itself go when people can't deal with killing animals for food. Wake up! They are here for us to eat, and I for one will continue to kill and eat them. If you can't handle that, then I feel sorry for you.
I agree. Many African nations hunt monkeys for bush meat. Why stop there? Homo sapiens have been known to practice cannibalism. There are many restaurants in China that will mix human meat with pork/beef. There is a saying in China, the only thing with four legs that you cannot eat is a table, and the only thing that flies that you cannot eat is a plane.
keep eating meat and you will die of cancer or heart disease. is that in your book?
@Isa: That is not true. It's been scientifically established that eating fish full of omega 3 fatty acid will significantly reduce heart disease. Japanese have the highest life expectancy because of their heavy fish diet.
Eating human actually has benefit with global scale. It will reduce population. I've eaten monkey brain and human flesh. I can tell you both are quite delicious. Monkey (and human) brain is a great source of pure protein.
Genesis 9:1-3 says: "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, now I give you everything."
I'm glad that religion did not advocate eating the non-believers, at least not that I'm aware of from the past crusades to the current one.
Hopefully technology would advance enough so that the cost of growing meat in the laboratory will approach the cost of raising animals. I'm pretty sure that some people would still want to eat the fresh meat obtained from slaughtered pigs for various reasons.
There is a Japanese dish. The fish is partially cooked alive so people can enjoy eating cooked fish on one side, and sashimi on the other. In Hong Kong, you can still order monkey brain from live monkeys. The monkey is trapped in a wooden crate with the head sticking out. People would crack the skull open and pour hot oil into the brain. Some would eat the brain raw.
And you think that because some methods of killing animals are humane all methods of killing and eating animals are humane?
I have a simple question for everyone. Can Josh and Brent really enjoy their meal knowing that what they ate was once their pets? Hmmm, Porky and Bess made good pets, but they make even more delicious pork chop. Tasty!
I don't think the issue is whether or not humans were MEANT to eat meat. I think it's whether the way we produce meat and the things we do to make it cheaper are morally sound. I think asking the question, "what are the consequences of these practices?" is beneficial to anyone regardless of what you choose to eat. This is conscious living. It doesn't determine what we choose rather it requires that we at the very least ask ourselves if our choices are correct.
All I have to say on this whole thread is, holy crap. Veggers interest group attack. Fully into day 2.......
Realize, society isn't making you eat meat, nature is. If you choose not to have at it, but don't expect anyone else to do so any more than you expect us to wear the same clothes as you. This is not 1984, we all get to live our own lives.
It's really no one's fault but your own !!!IF!!! you feel isolated and bombarded. It is, after all, a personal choice to be different. You can do that here, this is America, and no one is actually going to threaten you to fall in line.
My buddies and I guarantee it.
Semper Fi!
"Society isn't making you eat meat, nature is."
Um, no...it really isn't. Been a very healthy vegan for years now. Neither society nor nature has ever forced meat on me.
Using the terms ethical and slaughter in the same sentence is asinine.
That comment is asinine. If the animal dies without suffering, it is ethical.
I wonder if vegetarians consider that they also kill to eat. Is the killing of a plant any better than the killing of an animal? After all, plants are living things, too. Except for fruitarians, vegetarians don't have a leg to stand on when they criticize those who eat meat.
Animals have souls. But you don't have to believe in other non-Western religions to surmise that plants don't have souls. Buddhist believes that one can be reincarnated into any animals. Tibetans believe that your dead mother and grandparents may be reincarnated into cows, pigs, or ants. But if you want science, all you have to do is take some 7th grade biology to know the difference between animals and plants.
I've also yet to encounter one organization that advocates banning the use of plants for testing even though plant testing usually involving improving crops or pesticides.
Dude, do you really not know the difference between a plant and an animal? The education system has failed you very badly.
How? It is simple, swine tastes mighty fine. Those two piggies are sweet, intelligent and delicious. What would eggs and hash browns be without bacon? Bacon is one of the greatest inventions ever. Chitterlings are yummy, BBQ ribs are heavenly, and prime rib of pork is divine. It is perfectly fine to dine on swine.
It is also okay to be vegan. What is not okay is when certain pompous, self-righteous vegans/vegetarians try to bully others into adopting their dietary habits. When they do so, it is no surprise that the "favor" is returned twice over. You can see examples of both in this Comments section. Those who do not respect the dietary choices of others will receive little respect in return. Just some food for thought.
Why can't people understand that this is not an absolute moral issue but rather and interpretive/personal issue? Humans were designed to eat meat – are there alternatives? Yes. Is it morally wrong to eat meat? No. Is a dog different from a pig or a fish? Only in YOUR eyes as you see fit to explain and justify your actions.
@AceRider:
We evolved. We weren't "designed"... but that I fear, is for a different forum. :)
Yes, we evolved as humans by eating meat by hundred of thousands years by eating mostly meat. Our teeth and digestive system are the evidence of it . We are eating grains for just 10 000 .
you bunch of hypocritical vegetarians and vegans thinking theyre "so much better than the rest of us because they dont participate in the butchering of animals that lead a poor quality life only to get butchered. how about feel sorry for the sweat shop workers who made the shirt on your back.
I wish more people would ditch their squeamishness about where food comes from and also teach their children about it. And I mean this from the simplest (milk comes from cows, eggs come chickens) to the most intense (pig slaughter). The food we eat and hopefully enjoy comes from somewhere. As a culture we have become so far removed from this sort of information. Now I'm no farmer but remember well endless summers visiting my paternal grandparents, who had a farm in Oklahoma, and seeing cattle, pigs, and deer slaughtered, chickens' necks wrung, et cetera, all in the name of eating. I didn't like it but I soon got used to it. More important it imparted equal parts knowledge and sympathy, for the animals' ethical well-being to an understanding of farmers and their challenges.
Regarding to what you said about "I didn't like it but I soon got used to it." That's the same attitude 99% of German felt went Jewish people were sent to be cooked in oven. It's horrifying at first but soon German people get used to it. I use this extreme example to demonstrate that you can get used to practically anything.
When I went to Hong Kong a while back, someone told me I should try eating monkey's brain with a spoon. This is not like Indiana Jones Temple of Doom where the monkey's head is presented on a platter. You actually trap a live monkey in a wooden crate with a hole to let out monkey's head. The hair was shaved clean and you use a hammer to crack the skull gently. Then you peel the skull like you would with egg shell, and you can choose to pour hot oil into the brain or eat it with a spoon while the monkey was very much alive. It actually tasted pretty good raw. If you think this is made up, google and you'll see this practice is still done secretly in Hong Kong. What I'm saying is, I get used to it. Then I moved onto more exotic food. It's all about gradually changing your comfort zone.
I think your headline is atrocious. Porgy and Bess, two well-known black images, used in a headline like this?
The author has lost her way. There is nothing ethical about taking a life unnecessarily. I respect that the author was able to be there when the deed was done, but having been a vegetarian, she knows it is unnecessary to eat meat. Next time though she needs to pull the trigger and wield the knife.
If I was hungy enough, I'd killer Flipper for a tuna sandwich.
well said! =D
My partner and myself are huge fans of the Beekman boys. I grew up in a small town in MS where my dad worked at the meat packing factory. They would kills hogs all throughout the night. You could smell the burning flesh of the dead pigs as they tried to dispose of their bodies late at night. The smell was horrendous. I worked a summer at the factory on the kill floor. I saw so much inhumane treatment of those animals. It was a nightmare. However, I grew up on bacon and eating pig, so it was my lifestyle. I understand how culturally eating meat is ingrained in our being. I was raised on the meat of the hogs killed at the factory. It was nice to see that there was a humane way of connecting with their meat. This is important. I still have nightmares from the kill floor. Nice to see others in the world actually caring for the way that their meats are slaughtered instead of some archaic horror movie factory!!!!
It is actually illegal in most places in the US now to slaughter a perfectly good meat animal – the horse. While I much prefer the texture and taste of beef, I have eaten horse many times in my travels, and it's actually tasty if prepared correctly. So yes, there is a great deal of hypocrisy involved in how Americans view what goes on their dinner plates and how it gets there.
I love how everyone immediately started making analogies to "how things are in China". Whenever the topic of man's callousness comes up, China quickly becomes a reference beacon to the conversation. They also represent one of the oldest and most successful civilizations. Coincidence? I think not. The meek will inherit the earth? Never a chance.
Whether you decide to eat meat or not is a personal decision and everyone should learn to respect other cultures, beliefs, and traditions. I personally choose not to eat meat, but I'm not going to ostrasize others if they decide to eat it. With that being said, I hope those individuals who choose to eat meat will make a responsible choice by becoming conscious of where their meat comes from and not buying meat raised on factory farms. As far as those cultures that decide to eat dogs/cats, etc. I personally don't agre with this philosophy and can't even imagine it and I won't even start with the conditions these animals are 'raised' or confined in are horrendous – I think the bigger 'tabboo' is eating animals that do not have plant based diet. If you think about it, most of the animals rasied for consumption are herbivores and an occasional omnivore, but rarely do 'we' eat carnivores ... think about it.
I have wasted alot of time reading all this as most who have been yelling are not doing for "nature" all they can. I grow my veggies and I raise my meat, also I have 3 wind turbines that provide all my power. So to all of you that yell about "nature" and trying to sound higher then thou, I bet you live in a area where you drive to your market and then use power that you do not make for yourself to cook your beans and such. Good for you but try doing more honest living and then talk about it ok....
your a jerk
To all the Vegans:
Do you realize that the world's first animal rights laws were written by the Nazis upon coming to power in 1933? Google "Tierschutzgesetz Nazi." Now I am certainly not saying that all of you are Nazis, but I am letting you know that your veganism does not make you morally superior.
Thank you.
PS...I forgot to mention that most of the top Nazis were vegetarians. Hitler was mostly veg, but liked the occasional steak, so I hear.
Thank you for your breathtaking insight! Did you know that this "hitler" fellow also "visited" several European countries? My goodness, get the word out, we simply MUST boycott any countries invaded by Hitler! If Hitler liked them, then they must be nuked from existence!
Dan, I assume you are male, are you also aware of recent discoveries related to the gender of Hitler? Are all men evil, to also be avoided?
It is simply wrong to kill ANY animal when we can JUST AS EASILY choose to respect other life. Have you no better excuse for killing animals than "but I grew up this way"?
We have no right to hurt another animal, like you, I live in a country where its illegal to pull a cats fur, but perfectly legal to kill chickens and other "farm animals". We can change this, we can show respect to other Animals.
the Chinese eat cats and dogs- no problem. WHY DO THEY SKIN THEM ALIVE??? I can respect their dietary tastes but It's unforgivable the way they torture animals and kill them inhumanely. Can't help but think that they're bad people. Compassion is universal among the civilized. This is why I boycott China.
Something has to die to end up in your stomach, whether it's a plant or animal. I eat plants because I like plants. I eat meat because I like meat. People in India would be offended that you ate cows. The people of old in Egypt would be offended if you ate cats. A lot of people are offended if you eat animals commonly kept as pets. Anything on this planet is fair game. Eat want you want. Just don't intentionally torture the critters to satisfy some sick pleasure of yours.
I grew up on a farm and thank heavens I never had to help with the butchering of anything. The chickens were my job and the means to my allowance. Filthy, disgusting creatures! Whenever I found a dead one – I would go and get Dad and tell him to take care of "the dead thing". I can't stand "dead things" (I do eat meat – but I don't have to see them before hand). One year, we raised Pullets and Dad & my uncle decided they were going to butcher them and mom and my aunt were going to do the rest. I watched them do in the first chicken and then I disappeared. In fact I think they only butchered a few and then had the processor finish. Disgusting!
And as for the story, I thought it was well written. There's not quite so much drama involved when you're the one doing the slaughtering, you simply do it and move on tho the next chore.
When you're starving you'll literally eat anything! My grandfather said during the great depression they killed and ate song birds just to survive. If I was starving, all the feral cats and dogs running around would definitely be on the menu.
'twould be a bit more of a rorschach disassociated from your comment, but perusing the comments it struck me: I've never met a vegetarian/vegan who'd been hungry a day in her life. It brings back conversations with an old Norwegian, his childhood during the war and the relative merits of roof-rabbit.
Well that was fun, back to work.......
I know this is just wishful thinking, but I'd love to round up as many "meat-is-a-capitalist-conspiracy-and-you-are-a-murderer" vegans and ship them off to Argentina, meat-lovers heaven. The locals would probably eat them with some chimi-churri (google that and give it a try).
humans are truly the masters of rationale.Taking a life is wrong, simply put.Man has long exhibited a grotesque greed for
things he doesnt need.And , no , i dont give a rat's ass about the man having dominion over all else.Just more rationale created by humans to justify the ceaseless take, take take.disgraceful.
then you better not think about the deplorable conditions in which the components of your computer were assembled. Most Asian manufactures do not have fume removal systems as the small component suppliers, their works breath toxic fumes to make this "internet" happen for you.
worried about animals, worry about people.
Poor Asians are people too.
I don't eat meat, but I have to give this guy credit for putting his gut where his mouth is, so to speak. Very thoughtful article. I wish more meat-eaters would think past the "me-top-of-food-chain-me-eat-meat" line of thinking.
Ha social programming!!!!!!
Every intelligent reporter is a man right?
This article was written by a woman.
Ms. Kinsman professionally and poignantly details a newsworthy perspective. Clearly from the controversy her piece has ignited, it is a topic worthy of attention. Her journalistic sense of finding a story worth telling – and sharing a well-articulated investigative journey – deserves applause and respect. She has mine.
Wow, she's not Alexander Solzhenitsyn, take it easy.
I was an omnivore and decided that if I could not kill animals, I would not buy them for food. Why would I buy meat in the supermarket after someone killed it for me? Mass production of animals under inhuman conditions is wrong. (I am not addressing small farms that try to be ethical.) We eat what is easy for us to access to the point of ignoring our ethical standards. Rarely do I post my views. I am not telling you to stop eating meat or go vegetarian. If you eat meat, that is fine with me. Just remember that a life was sacrificed for you to enjoy you meal.
This is a totally schizoid article. I bet Jeffrey Dahmer also displayed enjoyment as he quartered and ate his victims' body parts. I suppose that was a sign of respect to them, right? Does that make it all better?
BTW, the definition of humane is: Marked by compassion, sympathy, or consideration for humans or animals. Slaughtering another being will never be humane, no matter how you try to rationalize it away.
Slaughtering an animal is humane if done in a humane manner. What was described in the article certainly falls in that category. Equating the killing of an animal to the killing of a human is truly schizoid, and indicates an utter lack of morality. Doing so does not elevate the worth of animals, it devalues and trivializes the lives of humans. Such nonsense was tried during WW II and we all saw how that played out.
Slaughtering an animal is illegal if that animal were dogs or cats. It may be ok for cows, pigs, goat, rabbits. But that's why those places are called slaughterhouse. Let's not use some euphemism for the actual deed. It's what it is.
All homo species are apex predators. At least we're not homo neanderthals whose diet consisted of 99% meat.
Preach it, brother!
Yes, that's how you do it, I bet the boys at the U.N. walk into the room and compare their counterparts to serial killers.
Bet you scream at people when driving your car too.......
Nations have been accused of genocide on more than one occasion. Why would I scream at people while driving my car? That comment is both nonsensical and irrelevant.
I think the good Doc was refering to "Someone's" post.
When I was a kid, we had pet pigs. We named them stings like 'Ham', 'Pork Chop', and 'Miss Piggy'.
We killed our pigs just like this.
Then I ate them.
Miss Piggy never tasted so good.
Which slaughterhouse was this that you visited? Was it recently?
Congratulations on witnessing the most unrealistic and most humane method of slaughter in practice today. If you really want an eye-opener, go visit a slaughterhouse and see the pigs get (literally) tortured by the (mostly) illegal workers in extremely unsafe conditions, thrown (alive) into boiling water (meant to de-hair them) .... watch as they try to swim out. Then write an article.
While I'm sure that the conditions you speak of existed fo many years, I think it is rare now in most slaughter houses, mostly because it is "bad business." With that kind of processing, there are often "holds" on the line, which costs a great deal. Temple Grandin has made a great effort to improve animal killing facilities, and has made that a "cornerstone " of her career. She has "approached " these owners from a "business" point of view. For example, Foster Farms I believe has used her methods for years. I'm not saying there aren't some like this, but not the bigger facilities. (Also, I am a vegan). sanjosemike
You've never killed anything in your life. Do you know how BAD a scared/wounded/worked up animal tastes? AWFUL.
If this was done on a regular basis, the meat would taste like crap (due to acids and adrenalin build up in the meat from trauma) the slaughterhouse would be out of business because people would notice that the meat tasted terrible and stopped buying it. Really.
We barbarians eat meat because it tastes good, not because it's how we get our fix.
Actually, most of the time the killing is done with electric leads nowadays.
@ Galina
I wasn't insisting that you were being provacative, I just noticed that it was the same as the latin word for chicken and was wondering if that was done on purpose. I like it, I think it is pretty. Please excuse me if I seemed rude.
This is what happens when Yuppies play farmer. An Advertising Creative Director? Really? ANd of course, everyon is up in arms about it. If you want to know the truth, the real tragedy is not that we kill animals for food (that is simply nature – get over it), but the fact that americans are so wasteful when it comes to using what they kill. I was born in the states, but my parents were both born and raised in Germany. My mother grew up on an honest to goodness working farm. They raised pigs, cattle, chickens, ducks, geese, and grew hay, wheat, barley, beets, and potatoes (all on 160 acres, without the benefit of a tractor). What they did not eat, they sold to pay for other things, so it was important to get the most out of every animal. I have eaten nealy every part of an animal, including the blood. My mother was always partial to Chicken Feet. My father loves beef heart. My favorit thing from the old country (where I lived for several years) was blood and tongue sausage. Here, we throw so much of the animal away, or turn it into dog food. We could harvest about 20% fewer animals if we just used more of the animal. We could also use less if we did not feel the need to shovel 5 times the amount of meat necessary for a healthy diet down our throats.
SO, if you feel bad for Porky and Bess, that is your option, but look at your purchasing and dining habits, and ask yourself if you are just eating the select parts, and throwing the rest away? If so, you are the problem.
And to the "Fabulous Beekman Boys", get over yourselves. You are not farmers. You are uptight spoiled brats playing in a business that others dedicate their entire lives to, not just evenings and weekends. Grow up.
Very good comment. I especially liked the part where you pointed out that most of the "leftovers" go into making dog food. Everything you said holds a tremendous amount of truth.
Aw c'mon, give them a break. At least they are trying. I agree completely that Americans are wasteful. There is a lot of good food that is being passed up or passed on to Fido. Beef heart stew over rice is darned good.
so the author gave the offal he didn't have time to process to a friend's bf for coyote bait?
I'm sure that bf used it to take pictures only of coyotes. /sarcasm.
He gets all weepy about slaughtering a pig for food but has no problem helping someone slaughter a coyote. respect for all animals....ya right.
Very good point about the coyotes !
It may be "more" humane, but it's not humane. Plus, most animals raised for food are miserable before they're even killed. So what's the difference those last few minutes? Ah – it makes US feel better.
There's absolutely no reasons to eat animals – not one. It's totally unnecessary. Millions of people worldwide live without meat their entire lives, and many more millions live without it when they come to their senses. So for those of you who think it's necessary, the facts are not on your side.
Certainly not necessary. Just tasty. There's no reason to eat ice cream either but I'm not stopping. If its good enough for a tiger its good enough for me. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!
Ahhhhhhhhhh – Then your ethics are all in your mouth. Got it! ;)
@Michael Vick
Ok, excuse me, but that comment about myself being "not an intelligent person" was uncalled for. Actually it was extremely rude. If we are going to talk about intelligence, it isn't spelled chewwawa, it is spelled chihuahua.
Also, that shows how much you know about dogs. A dog isn't born mean. It is made mean by people. Drug dealers and such use them because they are powerful dogs who can be turned mean. Any dog can be turned mean.
The fact that Vick got in trouble for fighting dogs still has nothing to do with the fact that it is legal to kill pigs. I am sure there aren't many people who would eat dog and fighting them for sport is considered animal cruelty.
It's funny you still couldn't get the irony I'm presenting. What's even more sad is that I'm actually on your side but you still don't get my point. I presented a hypocracy with Vick. He went to jail for killing killer dogs. None of the dogs he killed were nice. They were bred to kill. I don't think it's right to kill them, and he went to jail for breaking the related law. Then you have people slaughtering pigs for food but never have to worry about going to jail. Granted they aren't breaking any law. But that's the irony.
Ethical Slaughter = Jumbo Shrimp, but we love bacon all the same.
I also know for a fact it's not healthy to eat food when you're sad. What's the point for Josh and Brent to eat Porky and Bess and then shed tear during a meal? If it's going to make you sad, then don't do it in the first place. Don't raise Porky and Bess like pets and kill them for food.
Precisely, abuse them, constantly, from birth and then slaughter them like the pigs they are. Exactly what I'm saying.
I feel my best and not gaining weight only when I eat eggs, meat and vegetables, some milk products. No beans, grains, limited fruits.Atkins diet is my thing for last 3 years. Unfortunately I have an allergic reaction on most fish. I tried to relay more on soy products but it didn't work.My well being is more important for me than ethical side of that issue. My blood tests are unbelievably perfect and I never feel hungry. It is all that matter.
I saw your name and I noticed that it is the latin word for chicken and I was wondering if you did that on purpose because that is really very clever.
My name is a very common Russian/Ukrainian name of Greek origin. I am not trying to be clever or provocative.
I really don't understand why Michael Vick had to go to jail for killing some killer dogs. Yes, he broke the law, but there are more vicious criminals in NFL that never received jail sentence. Let me also remind you he killed pitbulls, not labradors or chewwawas. Pitbulls are not nice dogs. They are bred to do one thing: kill.
But killing docile pigs is ok.
Pitbulls are actually very nice dogs. They used to be considered nanny dogs and would do very well around children. With that said, what does the Vick situation have to do with the article?
Have you seen how a pitball can leap 5 feet and bite someone in the neck (and kill instantly)? I'm sorry, pitbulls are not nice dogs, especially the ones bred to kill other dogs in dog fights. If they were nice dogs, mafia and drug dealers wouldn't have a bunch of them protecting their properties.
Obviously you're not an intelligent person. The point is, it is illegal to kill killer dogs, but it is ok to kill docile pigs.
I agree that pitbulls are generally good natured dogs, at least if they are raised in a loving home by a responsible owner. Towards adults that is, but not towards other dogs and not always towards children. The pit bulls used for fighting are raised in a brutal, cruel environment, resulting in a dog that is mean as hell.
@Michael Vick, hurling insults is uncalled for and detracts from the points you are trying to make.
@Carney Vore
I couldn't disagree with you more regarding pitbulls. Tigers are also generally good natured cats when raised by professional. But when they grew up into adults they are generally killers. That's just animal's nature. It's in the genes. It's the logic that you couldn't possibly train a chihuahua to be killer, because chihuahua does not have that kind of instinct. But pitbulls have nothing to do with this topic. What I tried to say was Michael Vick killed a few vicious bitbulls bred to kill and he went to jail for it. Then you have people justifying slaughtering docile and defenseless pigs for food. I don't think we need to sugarcoat the act. It is what it is.
@Paula
Have you ever lived on a farm or seen an animal slaughtered? I doubt it. If you had, you would realize that not all farms are "factory farms". Characterizing slaughter as murder is inaccurate. The animals are dispatched to be used for food (slaughter), not simply to kill them (murder).
But if there are other ways... Other nutritious, tasty things to eat – And one still opts for the flesh... Isn't that killing without reason? And if this is not "murder" what is it?
No amount of philosophical rant can excuse killing an animal that did nothing to hurt you. Once you've taken its life away, you're not doing it any favor or showing any 'respect' by consuming all of it. If you really care about them, don't farm them and don't kill them. Addiction to meat is behind a lot of the excuses we're seeing, we just can't stop eating meat and hence find ways to justify the killing.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Thanks for your courage to pointing out the correct thing. You can cloak the murder of an innocent living being by impressive words.
@veggiemasaurus
Cannibalism is frowed upon in our society, but not in all societies. Besides, humans are not the only critters to eat meat, including humans on occasion.
Haha, well of course. No one said humans were the only living beings to eat meat. I am also not saying that you can't eat meat, I am not the kind of veggie lover that does that because I know nothing I say will change your mind. I was just simply pointing out that cannibalism is frowned upon and humans are made of meat too.
I cannot understand how the hell people eat other living creatures let alone watch one murdered and then stuff your face full of it's carcass. The writer needs to go visit a factory farm and write about that, not take the wuss way out and make believe meat comes from "Farmer John" who humanely kills his animals. Most animal flesh & animal by-products are from factory farms where animals are viewed as nothing more than objects to be crammed into cages for profit and to live and die terribly. Here are my answers for the usual comments & question from the meat eaters.....http://nycanimalrights.com/Excuse%201.htm
I'm actually trying to get access to a factory farm. Not so shockingly, most of them reeeaaaaalllly don't want journalists to have much of a peek. Once I can get that story, I'll share it.
If you can do a chicken farm. Horrifying, honestly, but they're birds, and at this point they're so over bred they're not too bright, so it's mitigated somewhat.
Still, ridiculous. Trust me.
Make my bacon extra crispy !
I can tell you this.. give any of these animals opposing thumbs (especially pigs..) and you wouldn't feel safe at night! My pet pig would enslave me more than he already has if he could!
Better to eat them than to be eaten... !!
Freedom of choice, as long as your choice doesn't interfere with mine. Meat eaters aren't hurting the vegans, yet they try to impose their will and limit my choices.
Freedom. Not all of this "political correctness' that is largely laughed at by the rest of the world.
Thought police, food police, fashion police... when will it end?
I would just like to say, I am sorry if you feel that vegans are imposing their beliefs on you, not all of us are like that. I have also met some very persistant meat eaters who do like to impose their beliefs on me. It goes both ways.
cana... I think you miss the "justice" part of it all. If it is not "necessary" to harm innocent animals – Then what is the justification in doing so? It's not about being "PC" – It's about being fair and consistent with what we say. We say we wish to be kind and "humane" – But when we cause deaths for no reason it all becomes a sham. No one wants to be a fraud.
Kat thank you for taking the time to write this. Witnessing a slaughter no matter how humane is not easy. My own father had a little ranch and he would raise about 4 a year on that property all for our consumption. I used to dread slaugther time but with it came an appreciation for the food on our table that people who merely know meat from a grocery store could never understand. I've read through the comments and while I can respect their choices, I don't understand their vindictiveness. Even omnivores have a right to their say.
The Beekman's have an exceptional farm and they are not alone in their practices. I have friends all over our state who practice that kinder technique that I wish my father had known. I applaud them for doing what they do to feed us all.
If animals aren't supposed to be eaten, then why are they made out of meat? Americans need to stop being such a bunch of sissies and be glad that we have food to eat of any kind. There are a lot of people in this world who don't have that and would give their eye teeth to share in our abundance. To be able to choose to be a carnivore or a vegan, or anything in between, is a great luxury, not a necessity or a moral obligation.
You are made of meat too and if someone ate you it would be considered cannibalism which is frowned upon.
Ah... But we human animals are "made of meat" too! And really, if world starvation is your issue – We could feed about a billion people on what it takes to fatten the livestock carnists consume. Food for thought.
Thanks for the laugh, Carney!
Bea Elliott what do you want? what is your utopia? Tell me how we grow food and cloth ourselves without use of animals? My one criteria I want no petroleum products, no polyesters, no petroleum based fertilizers.
"Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace." – Albert Schweitzer
Haha, I love your quote and Albert Schweitzer is pretty awesome, but seeing his name made me laugh. At my high school, the names of the buildings are named after famous people and our science building is called Schweitzer hall. It is ironic considering how many animals are disected there not even really for scientific purposes because what are a bunch of high school kids really going to learn from cutting up a shark? Most of them don't understand the anatomy.
Albert Schweitzer was a physician. How much "compassion" do you believe that he showed to living things such as staphylococcus aureus?
Soilent Green if Fido!!
I'm not a vegetarion but should be for health reasons. I've eaten meat/fish my entire life. Our family has hunted and fished for alot of our own meat for decades...duck, deer, elk, antelope, wild sheep, hog, goose, pheasant, dove, all types of fish. I have given up eating the pheasant/dove that my dad brings home but nothing can beat fresh salmon/cod/halibut. In Alaska, I've caught my own salmon/halibut...quite the experience when you do it all yourself, from catching it to helping them process it for transport home. It tastes FAR superier to what you buy from the store and you have the pride of knowing you caught/harvested it yourself. My friend was horrified when she witnessed the guide bash the salmon over the head w/ a small bat; too much of a culture shock when she was used to buying 'styrofoam' packages of meat/fish. I don't like it much either but you gotta stun them temporarily before you bleed them out for the best condition of the flesh. ALL the game/fish we harvest, if not eaten by our family, is shared with friends/relatives who cherish every fish we give them...nothing goes to waste. I wish I didn't like meat so much but I do...perhaps one day I can wean off of it but meanwhile, I will consume it. Videos of inhumane treatment sicken me and I don't mean to sound hypocritical, but the slaughter of whales, wild horses and dolphins is both barbaric and cruel... Being asian and having eaten/seen Chinese eat "just about anything that moves" and watching the Japanese slaughter whales/consume bluefin tuna in the quatities they do, really bothers me. I'm only a small fish in a large ocean...as long as society sees it as okay to consume meat, they will., whether it's humanely slaughtered or not. Bravo to you who are vegetarians... Those who eat meat should witness the "harvest" of the meat in person...if it doesn't bother you, you have the right to continue to eat meat. Just don't advocate the inhumane slaughter conditions and ban them! If it changes your mind, then good for you...
Wow... there are a lot of vegetarian / vegan fanatics in here. I personally like meat and have no intention of ever giving it up whatsoever. The least I can do however is witness a slaughter and feel the animal's pain through its eyes. It's not much, but it's better than nothing.
There's also a lot of "meat-eating fanatics" on here...if you want to look at it in a judgemental way.
I eat meat and my father raises hogs and cattle and I'll farm with my fiance after college but I notice that the meat eaters on this page are the meanest like they feel real guilty for eating meat and have to make themselves feel superior to animals and run down vegetarians. I never thought of it that way but your right about meat eating activists. Just because we are in the majority doesn't mean we aren't pushing something down other peoples throats.
if you insist on being one i'd much rather you be ignorant than apathetic
mmmmm bacon.
That was an INCREDIBLE piece. Well thought provoking and fascinating!
Great article.
Wow, these comments have all turned very personal. Who is to say one meat is any different than another? Or if someone who's culture eats dog is a bad person vs someone who's culture thinks its impossible to think about. When you are starving, food is food.
Modern people let their emotions and attachments dictate what we are "ok" with eating. I love my dog and would never consider making a roast of him. Pre-packaged hamburger meat is more appealing to me than the thought of shooting a cow in its head, trying not to look into its deep brown eyes. When I was a kid we lived in a rural area and I got to see many animals I befriended made into lunch meat. Maybe I was too young to witness the pools of blood and the gasps of last breaths.
One thing I am certain of, if we all had to harvest/kill what we eat we would probably have more respect for our meals and possibly not eat as much meat or waste as much food.
That being said, I love bacon. I love fried chicken. But I'd prefer not to have known them personally or dispached them to the other side.
there are much better alternatives out there (with the same flavor profiles) as bacon, etc...
here's the best part: your SKIN will look way better, triglyceride levels will be cut in half, low chance of varicose veins, cholesterol levels evened out, low chance of cardiovascular disease and colon cancer, your breath will be better, your stomach will feel nicer, you'll lose weight and keep it off. And people will think you're 10 years younger. you'll be healthier in all ways and no animal has to die. By the way, I used to eat sooooo much bacon years ago, I even used to consider putting it on my cereal. becoming a vegetarian was the best thing I ever did, for "me."
bravo and well said. these fools need to read "Skinny Bitch" or "Skinny Bastard"
too bad mad cow disease doesn't wipe out the human meat eaters
So, you've never eaten meat in your life, Matti? Perhaps Mad Cow will come and take you for being such a judgmental little hypocrite.
I grew up on a farm. A real, true free-range, organic farm in south Louisiana.
My grandparents lived to the age of 95 and 96. Most of my elders lived to that age and beyond. Why? Was it because of our family genes or some other BS? No. We ate "right." And eating "right" meant not much meat at all. We ate a wide variety of every type of vegetable and fruit you can imagine; we worked hard. Sure, we had a lot of animals, but they weren't there for slaughter. Some for eggs; some for milk, but most simply as companions.
If you want to REALLY know why there is so much cancer, obesity and health issues with current generations, then buy one of these two books: "Skinny Bitch" or "Skinny Bastard." Rent the movie "FOOD, INC." or "SUPER SIZE ME."
Then know this: Being a VEGETARIAN or VEGAN is nothing to be ashamed for. My brothers and I have been vegetarians and vegans for decades and I am sure we could kick the ass of any of those slovenly, obese meat-eaters out there. Do your research. If you're eating MEAT and Drinking MILK in today's world, you're getting your fair share of defecation, bacterium and pus all in a nice, tasty fat-filled meal.
We like our food healthy, fresh, colorful, and nutritious. Excuse me while I go harvest some nice Creole Tomatoes with my dogs, pigs, chickens, ducks and hot-ass wife that came from the West Coast.
Beautifully said :-)
"Ethical slaugher" – now that's a contradiction in terms. What's ethical about the unnecessary killing of animals and the eating of their charred remains? Eating animal flesh (or ingesting any animal products for that matter) is not necessary. In fact, a plant-based diet is much healthier.
The writer of this article is a hypocrite. She says "We live among and adore animals of many species." She adores many species, and *eats* others. I somehow doubt she would be so eager to attend at the slaughter of dogs and partake of their flesh. Each is a sentient being, capable of fear and pain.
Amen Bridget! This article made me sick to my stomach. Just because the author could actually force herself to watch the murder of these living creatures shouldn't afford her the right to eat their flesh. And I'm sick and tired or this whole "humane slaughter" crap. There is NO such thing. Being shot between the eyes and having your throat slit to bleed out is not humane. If someone they knew were killed like this, I doubt they would be calling it "humane". It's just a new fad so that meat-eaters can make themselves feel less guilty about eating animal flesh when there's absolutely no need to anymore in this day and age with all the delicious meat alternatives.
Like I always tell meat-eaters . . . may no one ever kill you or one of your family members just because they can and they want to.
You know what's bound to happen right? When the Dec. 2012 apocalypse hits you're going to wind up stuck with nothing but a can of beans and franks.........karma......
this is sick. when she saw the first pig get slaughtered she felt badly and almost (or did) cry....and then she ate the decaying flesh later that week. eating meat is a choice and hail the power of choice....but this story is morbid.
Plants start to decay the moment they are detached. If plants were found to have feelings, would you stop eating their decaying flesh too?
definitely not. even if plants did have feelings it's not the same as animals...ungrounded beings that feel pain, fright, etc. i'm a vegetarian and i don't have a problem with people eating meat. like i said it's a choice. but THIS particular story is sick because the lady sounds like a fat pig herself. how can she feel so badly then turn it all around and lick her fingers over the kill? i guess my question really is....do meat eaters think about where the meat comes from when they're eating it, or is it just second nature as if eating anything else whether it be pork, chocolate, or broccoli?
The author of this article is a sick and twisted human being. Any human that kills another being for gluttonous satisfaction deserves the heart disease and cancers that coincide with their behavior. I think if you want to eat more meat you should kill it yourself and eat it raw so that you are not blinded by the hypocrisy of having it processed for you.
right on! we, the people have been lied to for generations on the importance on proteins from meat, Vitamin D from milk, nutrition from canned goods (haha) and other assorted superfluous levels of BS. Have you checked out the school lunch programs?
The school lunch programs break my heart...I was never allowed to eat "school lunches" no matter how little money my family had, and I always ate better than those who had that junk served to them.
It is healthy to eat animal products(meat, eggs, chicken) produced without hormones and antibiotics. People who avoid meat eat too much carbohydrates.
have you ever watched someone die from cancer? you're a psychopath.
What a clown the writer of the article is. He says he was a veg for 8 years and then all of a sudden he's eating every part of the animal. The guy sounds like a real Tool and a LOSER to boot. I'm a veg and I can't even stand the thought of ever eating critters again. And don't give me that bull that you need meat to be healthy...I'm at 8% bodyfat with 16 inch arms, 30 waist, 16 inch calves and 16 inch neck...best shape of my life by far and can blast out 40 pullups with perfect form.
I eat three pounds of baby cow (veal) meat a day and have a gigantic schlong.
Perhaps... But you have absolutely no intellect or class.
You like it.
The biggest problem for the planet earth right now is that there is nothing that eats human beings. Hence, there are so many people that humans are eating all the other species into extinction. There are so many people and we are shoving all the fish in the oceans and all other animals down our pieholes as fast as nature can produce them. There are too many people on this planet already and there is nothing to stop the explosion of humans. How many people can the earth feed? How many people will be on this planet in 1000 yrs? Earth is only 7900 miles thick!!!
You talk about extinction and Africa is one of the main places for that. How can you justify saving an animal when an entire village could die if it weren't for the bush meat that they had to kill in order to survive? Give people sustainability and they will subsist.
There is an answer to the question missing.
'I will if necessary.'
Much like our politics our daily concern is for convenience rather than necessity.
Even the 'Boy Scouts' have evolved to respect resources and the environment through 'Leave no Trace'. Pack it in pack it out. Leave it as you found it. Don't kill unless you need to eat it.
If we don't want to contribute to improving the 'convenience' of savory alternate nutritional foods we need to turn our hypocrisy off.
Thank you Neel! This video presents the "nicest" way animals can be killed – And hardly a person could watch without remorse for it all. This totally re-affirms the confidence I have in making the right (vegan) choices!
An axe works best, but hey, if you want to slit their throats more power to you.
Those free-range chickens seemed to live a pretty natural life until, as the farmer said, their last day. I didn't get the impression that they were handled badly or with cruelty. The process of slaughter was not nice of course, and I'm sure it was painful for the birds, albeit for a very short time. If I were doing the slaughter I would prefer to hold a small mask of carbon monoxide over their heads for just a couple of seconds. They would become unconscious almost immediately, and I don't think it would damage the meat in any way. Then, you could bleed them out. I don't think a small tank of CO would cost much, and you could handle two rows at a time...to save time. sanjosemike
Would you do it to a dog or a cat? Dogs and cats are slaughtered for their meat in Korea and vietnam. Is a dog and different from a cow, chicken, or pig? If you support the slaughter of farm animals, you should have no problem slaughtering ,dogs fork food.
holy fucking shit. Im not eating chicken ever again
The Chinese people are such animals that they not only eat cats and dogs and rats, but if they catch a Korean or japanese or russian child, they will stir fry them with vegetables!
hahahahahahahahhahahhahhahaha
There was a time not so long ago that pigs were not skinned but dipped in a giant pot of scalding hot water via a pulley over a stout branch and then the pig bristles were scraped off with a gadget called a bell. The pig's stomach was cleaned , filled with a stuffing mix and boiled for several hours. For all you gourmeists this was called hog maw. It is a pity that in a few short generations the practical knowledge of how to manage a family farm independent of outside jobs has been lost and now newcomers are trying to rediscover what was already known.
This article is silly. I was a vegetarian for 8 yrs, then all of a sudden I started craving fresh meat. I felt that if I was going to eat every single bit of a pig I needed to watch it's slaughter under a microscope. Then I would put it's guts in a plastic garbage bag so I could take them home and make offal gut pudding and eat everything but it's hair. I would even make cabobs out of the pigs' eyeballs and eat them with catsup made out of it's blood. I don't know what my motivation is in reporting all of this, I guess just to espouse how I turned from a vegetarian into all of a sudden loving to watch my meat killed and cut up before enjoying hogging it down my piehole.
I can understand being a little uneasy about being involved in an animal slaughter, but to actually cry over it is a bit much. If they are intent on becoming farmers, perhaps they should consider just growing crops instead of raising livestock.
If the pigs "smelled to hell and back," they were not being cared for properly. Pigs are clean animals if allowed to be so. If these play farmers really care about their animals, they would keep them in a clean environment. I get the impression all the PC agita is just for show. If you are going to eat meat, and you care about animal welfare, then do all you can to make sure that what you eat is humanely raised, transported and slaughtered. If you can't stand to see how all this is done, do not eat meat. It's that simple. i am a vegetarian for that very reason. The treatment of animals raised for meat int eh US is morally unacceptable.
I have 4 rescued pigs as pets on my farm. They are wonderful animals- full of fun and very intelligent. Until everyone decides not to slaughter animals, try thinking outside the box and rescue a farm arnimal!!! It is very rewarding.
My uncle does this, then sells them. Tell me, isn't that a huge financial drain to feed and care (veterinarian) for these animals? Seems like being vegetarian does more to reduce animal farming.
Offal is good stuff, but I like eating pigs raw and unprocessed and savor one bite at a like like a good ripe apple.
trichinosis
haha! Welcome to Cancer, Don. Don't use my tax dollars to care for your sick ass when you lay dying.
I would think that there might be some merit to the animal rights groups' claims until I understood how unbelievably hypocritical they all are. I'm from Australia, and in our country we have an out of control wild camel population (the English brought them over for exploring the outback). These gigantic lawnmowers are destroying crops and having a catastrophic influence on the native animal population. The government started massive culls with riflemen in helicopters shooting them from the air, which immediately sent PETA up in arms. When middle eastern companies volunteered to capture and ship the animals to their countries (where camel meat is a delicacy), the PETA people again cried because it was "inhumane" to ship the monsters in a closed animal-transport ship. As a result, our countryside's ecosystem is being destroyed by a bunch of animals who are enormously overpopulated while real people who could benefit from their consumption starve to death in Africa. Absolutely ridiculous.
And they don't even stop in matters that don't pertain to food: my friend's family runs a free range sheep farm north of Albany, Western Aus (for growing wool). There's a simple procedure that is performed when a lamb is born–the skin is snipped from around the animal's a n u s in order to prevent du ng from sticking to the sheep's wool. As a result of this procedure, the sheep is protected from maggot infestation later in life, an infestation which invariably leads to the sheep being effectively eaten alive. PETA seems to think that snipping the poor lamb's skin (which one could compare to an infant's cir cumc ision) is unethical, which has led to the procedure being banned. Nearly all of my friend's family's sheep are now dead due to being eaten alive by maggots. Please explain to me how an intelligent person can agree with this idiotic organization.
But were you told that the sheep were bred to create more wool which caused this extra pocket of skin which attracts the maggots? Nature did not design these sheep this way – Man did. Nature would not have caused an animal to be so vulnerable. And indeed the sheep bred for wool eventually become "food" animals as well – They don't escape the slaughterhouse either – Not even for the fleecy "gifts" that we take from them are their lives spared.
http://www.safe.org.nz/Campaigns/Scorned-Sheep/
So we should let the sheep die an agonizing death instead of putting them through a couple minutes of pain during infancy because of their genetic makeup. They're still animals, Bea, and according to PETA they should be protected.
Angela – If we truly were interested in reducing suffering – We would stop breeding these sheep... And all the other animals that we only intend to "use" and kill. It's just not necessary.
And thus we should rely on cotton to clothe ourselves, a crop which destroys the soil on which it's planted and consumes more fertilizer and fresh water than any food crop in north America. Cotton has been almost single-handedly (prior to the oil spill) responsible for one of the largest marine dead zones on the planet at the mouth of the Mississippi River in the U.S. due to soil runoff and fertilization, a problem which is also surfacing off the south coast of Australia.
Or we could switch to synthetics, at least for a couple of years until we run out of oil or the oceans become clogged with dissolved plastics. Or we could walk around na ked, but that would be weird. Any raw material you choose has consequences on the environment, other people, and animals. Animal rights activists who pretend their lives are more noble than others' are hypocrites or simply naive.
Well if it's the environment you're concerned with – "Livestock" is the first industry you'd want to spare our poor planet from. Alternatives to cotton? Hemp – An absolute favorite hands down for crop to land yield, low water usage and versatility. Hemp can also be used as a nourishing food stuff as well. All that and we can spare the lambs as well – Sounds like a win/win to me!
Bea,
So I, being a Colorado native, am supposed to give up my goose-down coat I use in the winter in lieu of a hemp coat made from water-absorbent plant material. Maybe the thought of the little goose I saved will keep me warm while I'm freezing to death next winter. No thank you.
@Angela:
I have to agree on each. and. every. piece. you write.
Few vegans/vegetarians bother to do the overwhelming amount of research needed to see what an "all natural" non-supplemented, non-fortified, "raw" existence would do to themselves and the planet. You bring up excellent points on the cotton problem, camels, synthetics, sheeping, etc.
I think all you missed was feral pigs and the soy industry... oh, and the stupid veg farmers that introduced cane toads as "natural pesticide".
Keep up the good work.
Hey, Angela. Did the folks from PETA ever tell you that they also kill over 85% of the animals that people bring to them for "rescuing"? These people are indeed hypocritical oafs.
Humans possess the intelligence to be better guardians of this planet: it's ecosystems, its species, and resources. So I don't buy this argument that the hunter spirit is in line with the natural order. Unless you feel humans are simply the same as a rabbit or say a whale or by that fact, an insect. But if you feel we are much more "highly evolved" (don't laugh) and are capable of not killing and systematic factory murders, then why not prove it? Being a vegetarian is very easy these days for those who are afraid to cook.
As for the environment, we're getting worse. Tuna is set to become extinct in a few years. Cattle production is expected to ramp up big time to now feed beef to India and China. ..to feed house cats and carnivores. Meanwhile, more methane from livestock. More deforestation for cattle grazing land.
There is nothing "natural" about humans who plan a hunt, buy guns, cover themselves in camouflage, and blast away at wildlife with a high powered rifle. If you want to call it anything, call it animalistic, the way a pack of dogs surrounds a weak animal. Trouble is we're better than that... aren't we?
They say hunting is a sport. What kind of "sport" give only one side a loaded gun?
Not to mention animal call devices, scouting cameras, and the lack of brains that causes one to waste money on all that crap. It's the sport for the lazy man w/ high cholesterol and obesity. Sounds rather American. But this isn't about hunting! It's about farming. Guns would be a blessing in these animal's lives. They are usually killed by blunt force trauma so die of a brain hemorrhage – SLOWLY.
What about death by car? A huge doe committed suicide on the front end of my car. The deer didn't have a car, so was that unfair? It jumped in front of me, I certainly didn't hunt it down for a $3000. new front end. I thought it was only fair that I loaded it up and had venison stew.
I suppose if your addiction to flesh is insatiable you're welcome to troll any interstate at dawn and dusk... I hear the pickin's are plentiful. But please... please – don't take the life of an innocent who's done you no harm and who wishes to live just as much as any of us do. There really are kinder choices that are easy and healthy to make instead. ~peace~
I quit hunting deer because these days deer are darn near tame. It's no sport anymore because you can almost walk up on them and use a knife if you wanted. A lot of them don't run from you these days.
Hi Sam... That's because most deer come from breeders... Much the same as "factory farms". They artificially inseminate deer with genetically "improved" buck sperm (bought on the web)... They take the does away from mothers at birth and feed them a milk replacer (just like the cow dairies). When the fawns are grown they are either used as "replacements" for does or turned out for hunter's taking and "enjoyment". THIS is why they are tame... Because they've been around humans all their lives.
Goggle "deer farms" or better yet see The North American Deer Farming Association:
http://www.nadefa.org/
The thing is many communities feel that there is an "overpopulation" problem. Deer cause auto accidents or eat shrubbery. The truth is we are breeding them as "secondary livestock". So either we have too many – and we should stop making more. OR: We don't have *too many* and should stop killing them. Trouble is – Man always thinks he has to kill in order to "preserve", especially when there's financial gain to do so.
No need to hunt. No need to kill. It's simply a matter of economics. Just "blood money" and greed.
^^^^^^^^^^^You are an idiot. Holy smoke. "most deer are bred on deer farms." You really do believe everything you read on the internet don't you?
I am, as the chinese say, 大吃一惊！
I agree with Jennifer S "Ethical Slaughter" is an oxymoron The pig has always been at the bottom of the human food chain.
It does not provide milk, eggs, or wool it's sole purpose on this planet is to provide food and when you think about it it is the unhealthiest meat available. When was the last time you heard a doctor or nutritionist tell you that if you wanted to lower your cholesterol you should eat more ribs or sausage or bacon?
There is no ethical way to kill anything but since most people buy their food wrapped in plastic at the grocery store they can't realize the pain that the animal might have gone thru. I think if most americans had to slaughter their own meals they would eat a lot less meat.
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"Ethical Slaughter?" ...it's an oxymoron. Why anyone feels the need to kill anything is beyond me. I simply believe it is not our human right to take the life of another animal.
Thanks for this post, Kat.
I, too, was a longtime vegetarian: a vegan for nearly a decade. And I, too, on returning to omnivory, had to confront the fact of animal death. Like "Hunter" who posted a comment some twenty minutes ago, I opted to seek that confrontation through hunting. It's been quite a journey.
"I'd thought long and hard and made a bargain with myself. If I couldn't go and be courageous enough to see an animal I'd known alive, dead and turned into food, I had no right to keep on writing about it – or perhaps even eating it."
This is the question that every one should be asking them selves before consuming meat. I feel that a lot of people think that you get meat from the "supermarket" (not the slaughter house). It is about knowing the source of your food and above all respecting your food.
the nerves in a body will jerk and twitch for up to an hour after death....doesnt mean the thing is still alive. And the fact that you say you thought it was funny says to me that you just want to make everyone reading your post react......your what some would call an instigator.
and that makes you the sucker? right?
I went through a similar process myself a few years back. I was close to becoming a vegetarian on principle, but in my search for understanding of the role of meat eating, I took up hunting. I found that the experience of killing was traumatic for me at first, but gradually, I came to a keener understanding of nature. I didn't lose sight of the natural world as a place of beauty or wonder or even "cuteness," but I came to see that that wasn't the whole story. Ultimately, I simply couldn't become a vegetarian when it would have put me in the position of rejecting, on principle, the fundamental processes of nature. The world we see and appreciate and love was built upon the interaction of animal and plant life (including ourselves) hunting, eating, avoiding, defending, and competing. That's the whole picture, not just the maternal bond between a doe and a faun, but the material bond between the deer and the wolf that led to that maternal bond existing. As a human animal, there is something real about that participatory role that hunting gives me and the interdependence between myself (as hunter and conservationist) and the animals I hunt. I still love hiking, photography, and just watching the squirrels in my back yard, but hunting – and I imagine farming – is a connection on a different level entirely.
" I found that the experience of killing was traumatic for me at first, but gradually, I came to a keener understanding of nature." What happened is that you became de-sensitized. You cut yourself off from one of the most precious instincts humans have: The ability to feel emotion & empathy. You did not walk away richer simply because you can kill without sorrow. I pity for your loss.
I bet you have like, a dozen tissue boxes all over your house, with little knit covers..........
"ethical slaughter" – what an oxymoron!
I would DIE if I had to go to a BBQ and just sit there gnawing on a tofu pup while the immense delicious meaty smells from the BBQ pit fill the air! I could possibly be a vegetarian if only I could just eat Bacon. I cannot resist it when I smell it. I know dam well where it comes from, I was 8 with pig tails when I shot my first pig. His Name was buddy... I used to ride him he was so freakin' big. I Loved Buddy and I loved how delicious he was as well! Thanks for breakfast buddy !:)
Tofu? Oh gosh – I'm vegetarian 8 years... Vegan 3 and I have "tofu" 7 times! You have no idea what a plant based diet is! I bet I eat double the variety of food in my diet as you do in yours! It's a meat based diet that is severely limited – Not the other way around!
I agree with you 100%! It's shocking to see how many folks on here are still brainwashed by the media to eat meat and dairy. I figured that conspiracy out ages ago! Everyone on here needs to watch Earthlings....then let's talk.
I'll stop eating meat when bears, wolves, lions, tigers, hippos, gators, crocs, sharks, etc stop eating people. Until then I as an animal, an omnivore, will continue to enjoy it. While I don't hunt, and haven't had to butcher an animal to eat, if that was what was necessary to survive I would. And I love my dog, she is a great companion and I think of her as a good friend as well, but if push came to shove and I was on the verge of starving to death, she'd be on the grill. If she was starving and my body was lying aound she wouldn't hesitate to eat me. Lets of course not forget about the holocaust of vegetables either, plucking these living things from the ground to chop, boil, steam, or eat raw... I have heard the cries of the carrots!!! Although they are not nearly as delicious as Steak or a good piece of fish.
Yeah but... You're not eating the "bears, wolves, lions, tigers, hippos, gators, crocs, sharks" – Your eating innocent, harmless herbivores – Probably caged and confined ones at that! Also, animals that do eat other animals have no choice. Their biological system requires "flesh". And unlike humans they can't walk into any store and procure alternatives. Humans however can opt for alternatives to killing. We can thrive on a plant based diet. We can and do understand the value of life and the consequences of taking lives... Therefore we should choose to do as little harm as possible. This is what sets us apart from the (grrrrr) *unthinking* (beastly) "animals!".
Every living thing has the same amount of life in it...big or small. Every living ting should have the right to live. I recently became vegan after an elimination diet finding out I was allergic to certain by-products. Also after watching a horrible video of animal cruelty at the Ohio conklin Dairy Farm.
http://laverabestia.org/play.php?vid=2221
I just dont want anything from animals anymore..I just think we should leave them alone. I have been feeling so much better with my new diet...people come up to me left and right saying that I am glowing..I look younger..healthier etc. I dont ever want to force anyone do to anything. I am ok with people who eat meat. I just know from my own experience that it has truly changed my life and I am happy to not to bother any animals :)
I saw the episode of "Fabulous Beekman Boys" where the pigs were slaughtered and found myself weeping. The thing is, these pigs HAD been treated as pets throughout their lives. Brent has been portrayed many times feeding them fresh veggies by hand, playing with them, even nuzzling one on the nose. While I am a dedicated carnivore, the animal lover in me was horrified by the slaughter. I could not watch that in person, and certainly could not later make a meal of an animal I had raised from infancy, as the Beekman guys did. Please don't misunderstand - I'm not judging them, as I understand the harsh realities of farming and meat production. I'm just saying I personally could not subsequently eat an animal that I'd raised and treated with love as a pet. Definitely a bit hypocritical of me. Love their show and find both Brent and especially Josh to be engaging and charming people (at least on TV).
I like your reply Denise. While I too am not vegetarian or vegan the idea of slaughter or torture of any being is too much for me to bear. I saw this episode as well and while it was a hard view I appreciated that they did it with care and compassion as oppossed to the horrors that we are more often than not privvy to where slaughterhuses are concerned. The author of this piece penned a difficult article with dignity and respect for the process that took place. I enjoy the Fabulous Beekman Boys and what they do at the farm.
P.S.
It's a lot less uncaring and thoughtless to shop for meat than it is to butcher it. I really struggled with buying a package the other day but for some reason I put it in my basket. When I look into the eyes of a cow at Fair time and then know that I bought and ate a piece of beef liver I am not able to enjoy it what I am eating.
Eating animals is cruel whether it's a companian animal or raised for food. Do you think the pig suffers less because it is not someone's pet? The stupidity of these posts is mind-boggling.
If you're going to live on a farm you're going to have to learn NOT to make pets of your livestock. I saw this show on TV and I could tell Brent was way too attached to those pigs. ( No one washes a pig for a party!). What he obviously didn't know is that if those pigs had gotten out and been in the wild for 2 weeks they would have become feral. They are not nearly as cute then. You cannot become attached. Rule #1 and always has been.
I watched a BBC documentary called "How to kill a human being", or something close to that. As I recall, what they uncovered was the seemingly most humane method of killing something is asphyxiation via nitrogen gas. Other gasses, like co2, co, and the hydrogen cyanide commonly used in gas chamber executions, all have incredibly unpleasant side effects.
Asphyxiation is not an unpleasant experience in itself, and in actuality one starts to become euphoric. This was tested in the documentary by Michael Portillo who subjected himself to an altitude simulation chamber without an oxygen mask. Nitrogen was the gas that most closely mimicked the effects of high altitude asphyxiation without the use of an expensive decompression chamber.
bacon sure tastes good.......it's gotta come from somewhere.
You do realize "bacon" is just fat with VEGETABLE seasonings and VEGETABLE spices and the mineral salt – right? Anything can be flavored to taste like something else. Nothing "taste-wise" is lacking in a plant based diet – I assure you!
http://www.lightlife.com/product_detail.jsp?p=smartbacon
The Matrix has you Bea... :)
That's the only way you could possibly want fake bacon. Kind of like fake bacon bits on salad are like flavored grape nuts cerial, it's just not the same.
great story – I think many people would rethink their food choices if they had to witness the killing & processing of their own food. So I say kudos to those who have the balls to do so (raise, kill, and eat all of it on a humane farm). As for the mass majority of us not on friendly goodwilled farms such as the one described, we get our food from factory farms – where animals live in excrement, filth & darkness with maimed bodies til they are slaughtered, in the cheapest way, not the most humane way. Yes, many will be skinned alive if the blunt force trauma didn't do the trick with the first blow. I have to say that the author seems enamored with high brow food – and uses this as a justification for eating meat. I just don't get it – pork isn't that healthy and you can get a myriad of worms and food-borne illnesses from it. And all that processing and filth to get to the end product. What a waste of time if you ask me. Just grow some veggies and call it a day. No one will commend you at your grave for being a pate aficionado, but rather for what you did in your life, or what you contributed to society or for your acts of kindness. As for China, I'd seriously rather doubt they'd second guess eating their own. They already chain babies with still cuffs on their legs like dogs, why not eat them. Would solve overcrowding.
I'm glad there are so many choices for vegans and vegetarians to have a nutritionally complete diet without sacrificing too much variety, but don't insist that eating meat is an inhumane means of living. Humans have been opportunistic omnivores ever since we've been humans, and I'd argue that the slaughterhouse-style butchering process causes much less stress than chasing down an animal and crunching on it's windpipe.
But if none of it is "necessary" what's the justification?
I have butchered many pigs. I never had a problem with killing them and will continue to do this. I know where my meat came from, how it was handled and what is in it. I would much rather do it this way than buy it from the store. You never know what germs that meat may have been exposed to.
The whole point of this article and the episode on Beekman Boys was to point out how distanced and desensitized we have become from our sources of food. Eating locally produced food from local farmers is central to their message. The reality of it is that what Josh and Brent did was give the 2 pigs a good life, then did their best to have the slaughtered in a manner that was as humane as possible. Could I have done it? No. My stepfather has told me about living in the Azores islands as a kid and how they raised animals for food and how they used every part of the animal. In the US we've become so distanced from our food supply we lose sight of the fact that the bacon or pork chop in the white styrofoam package was an animal not so long ago, not just a piece of meat produced on an assembly line of death. If you can please support your local farmers, you'll get better healthier food for your trouble. Factory farming while producing cheap food is part of the problem we have today. If you are that outraged by this they you really should consider going vegan as animal products are used all throughout our food supply not to mention clothing, and other items like leather furniture, car interiors etc. While its a tough thing to do I commend Josh and Brent for doing something I simply couldn't.
So this is why when I have my small farm,I will have to have another one where I can have some one who can do this raise my food for me.For me to look anything in the eye and see a soul I just can not eat! Can Not and will not be come a vegetarian either.
"Kind of funny is it".... your one sicko.
Rad666, I'm not criticizing because I thought you made several excellent points. But to be clear, dairy cows, named or not, are slaughtered just as inhumanely as beef cattle. In Chino, CA a couple of years ago an undercover video revealed spent dairy cows being tortured in various ways, including being rammed with a forklift and having a firehose jammed up their noses, to make them walk to slaughter - because our Orwellian slaughter laws say a cow has to walk to slaughter to show she's healthy enough to be killed. This investigation led to the largest-ever recall of beef in the U.S.
Also, since dairy cows, like every mammal, need to have given birth to lactate, did anyone here ever wonder what happens to the calves they give birth to? The female calves end up on the same treadmill of being impregnated, giving birth and "giving" milk until they wear out, at which point they end up in slaughterhouses being rammed with forklifts to walk to their own slaughter. Male calves, who are comparatively worthless in the dairy industry, are often immediately separated from their mothers and left to die in the mud and feces of the lot. Those who don't drown and starve in the mud are shipped, days old and often still with their umbilical cords attached, to auction - to die as veal, or later slaughter.
For the record, male chicks at egg farms meet equally brutal fates - thrown alive into grinders or stuffed alive into plastic garbage bags to be crushed or suffocate.
And while it's likely true that all food, except maybe that grown in your back yard, involves some death - it's patently absurd to declare that vegans are responsible for more animal deaths than meat-eaters. All it really proves is that meat dulls the logic-processing areas of your brain. And yes, it's true that most vegans and vegetarians ate meat at one time, the fact is at some point we made the choice to stop. We recognized that "everybody does it" is not an excuse for anything you believe is cruel and/or wrong. You can smear us all you want, but how many of you bizarrely self-righteous meat-eaters have the stones to watch the death of every single animal you eat? Sure is easy when the dead body parts come neatly and unrecognizably packaged, or battered and fried. Speaking as a former meat-eater, denial is a powerful thing, but it doesn't change one single fact.
Everyone has an opinion; no one is going to read anything on here and change his/her mind. Let's get over ourselves.
Well said... but I don't see any omnivores on here trying to convince a vegan to have a burger.
Lyn – You don't have to! The whole of culture "forces" it on me every day. Can't turn the tv or radio on without hearing some "meat" commercial. Can't drive 3 blocks without seeing dozens of fat-food pop-ups... Or billboards. Can't enter a grocery store without seeing (and smelling) the putrid, horrible meat-case. Unavoidable to watch people paw through dead animal parts looking for a "choice" "cut". Can't go to my mail box without flyers advertising roasted victims. Force? Ha! All of society is in the conspiracy without even knowing it!
That is because eating animal protein is a part of who we are, which has been proven by science and historians. Your lifestyle is a choice. I don't begrudge you your choice, I don't care what you eat (or don't, in this case). But you are 2% of the adult population in the US who choses to do so, so yes, you will see a lot of meaty things around.
Aside from that, I don't eat red meat or fast food. The smell from the meat case and McD's ads don't bother me all that much.
"a part of who we are" – Well we also once lived in caves, pooped in the woods, climbed trees and mated in groups... We obviously "evolved". "proven by science and historians" – What has been "proven" – There are so many studies out now that lean evermore to the health benefits of a plant based diet. Research needs funding – Vegetable growers are not like the *meat* industry with millions/billions to invest in studies which will support *their* conclusions. "Your lifestyle is a choice. I don't begrudge you your choice" – But no, I'm not harming an innocent victim. You're "choice" on the other hand involves a 3rd party... The animals who have no voice or say in the matter. This is why "your choice" becomes something of an issue to those who care about "3rd party victims".
"The smell from the meat case and McD's ads don't bother me all that much." That's because you've desensitized yourself to it. I guess it's like a smoker who doesn't smell the tobacco because he's around it all the time. I assure you – blood, flesh and death have a very distinct, unpleasant, repulsive stink. But why wouldn't it? It's "preserved" decaying matter. A human corpse would have a bad odor too – Yes?
There's clearly no reasoning with you. Innocent 3rd party victims or not, chickens, fish, eggs, cheese and milk will continue to be yummy and nutritious and I will continue to consume them with no guilt. I buy organic and cruelty-free products whenever possible. I am a long time donor to both the ASPCA and the HSUS and whole-heartedly support any effort to stop cruelty in livestock operations. But consuming meat is not an aberration in humanity, choosing NOT to consume it is.
No clear reasoning? It is people who opt for a diet which causes undo harm because of the frivolous need to satisfy the "yummy" factor that is arbitrary. To say it's okay to kill because of "taste" alone – That may be considered "unreasonable" to most "reasonable" folks... Yes?
Humane slaughter is an oxymoron. Killing these trusting pigs was a total betrayal in a society where meat is not needed to live a healthy, happy life. I've been vegan for 18 years and it's really easy to eat delicious food and not kill innocent animals who trusted you moments before you "humanely" killed them.
I would think that there might be some merit to the animal rights groups' claims until I understood how unbelievably hypocritical they all are. I'm from Australia, and in our country we have an out of control wild camel population (the English brought them over for exploring the outback). These gigantic lawnmowers are destroying crops and having a catastrophic influence on the native animal population. The government started massive culls with riflemen in helicopters shooting them from the air, which immediately sent PETA up in arms. When middle eastern companies volunteered to capture and ship the animals to their countries (where camel meat is a delicacy), the PETA people again cried because it was "inhumane" to ship the monsters in a closed animal-transport ship. As a result, our countryside's ecosystem is being destroyed by a bunch of animals who are enormously overpopulated while real people who could benefit from their consumption starve to death in Africa. Absolutely ridiculous.
I laugh because everything you stated about these camels could be applied to humans as well. We as a species pollute and damage the earth as well. It is okay though... I guess the planet was made just for us. Nothing else really matters.
In this case it's humans protecting an entire continent's ecosystem (admittedly we brought the camels, but now they're a problem and have to go). I'm not sure a rational person can be convinced that a child in Africa is worth less than a camel in Australia... if you gave me a gun and a choice between a child and a pig, I'd say we'd be having bacon for breakfast and pulled pork for dinner.
As nice as animals are, they are fundamentally different from human beings, and when it comes to helping people, we take what we need from the environment and work to protect the rest to ensure that it is there for when our children are hungry.
Well said, angela.
Another fantastic example: My friend's family runs a free range sheep farm north of Albany, Western Aus. There's a simple procedure that is performed when a lamb is born–the skin is snipped from around the animal's a n u s in order to prevent du ng from sticking to the sheep's wool. As a result of this procedure, the sheep is protected from maggot infestation later in life, an infestation which invariably leads to the sheep being effectively eaten alive. PETA seems to think that snipping the poor lamb's skin (which one could compare to an infant's cir cumc ision) is unethical, which has led to the procedure being banned. Nearly all of my friend's family's sheep are now dead due to being eaten alive by maggots. Please explain to me how an intelligent person can agree with this idiotic organization.
This is PETA's sop. They cry wolf and get people to side with them, to intentionally make things worse. Why do they do this? If you understand their goal, then you understand why. Their goal is the absolute obliteration/extinction of all domesticated animals. So who cares if a few thousand sheep are eaten by maggots? If that causes farmers to discontinue raising sheep, they have moved closer to their end game.
if we have to kill an animal to eat, thats a crime. with all the food choices we have, we don't have to. If you love animals called Pets, hten why do you eat other animals, why is it ok to kill a pig and not a cat or hamster?
They're sentient beings NOT food choices. Pigs are highly intelligent creatures. I don't know. All I know is "I made the connection a long time ago" How can I say I love animals, then support an industry that tortures and kills them in the most barbaric manner. I made the connection and I can live with myself.
so says the lady with the leather shoes and sneakers.
Actually Papa – I think you'll find a huge (and growing) segment of people that are shunning "leather" – These skins represent horrible torture and who want's to wear that as a "fashion statement"? Furthermore, processing "leather" is terribly toxic to the environment – It uses lots of harmful chemicals that stay in the ground for hundreds of years. "No thanks" on the leather! Too creepy to even think of!
I have always said "I do not pet my food and I will not eat my pet". An animal has value because we assign value to it. When it becomes a pet, its value grows exponentially.
Well that's pretty arbitrary... Sort of similar to having "gOd-like" powers... All based not on rationality – But on whim. As for me I want to be human*e*.
God is neither irrational, nor given to caprice.
Ok. eat your pet if you like.
@Bea
I believe animals are here to serve man and to provide food for us. With that said, it doesn't mean it's okay to exploit them or to abuse them. Whatever can be done to humanely slaughter, I'm all for it. Could I witness a slaughter? No, and I thank God for the people who are able to (humanly) and I can't blame people for it, either. After all, I'm eating it! I know, I know, humanely isn't perfect yet but I hope we get there. I have seen chickens axed by my great uncle who was a farmer. Didn't really bother me, and I do like to fish. But even when it comes to fishing, you don't let the poor thing suffer and you eat what you catch.
Diane – If these animals were to provide a "necessary" food it would be a different story entirely. The act of killing them would be unavoidable. But certainly with all the options available to us – We can thrive on a plant based diet instead.
And about the people hired to do the deed you yourself could not watch. Are you aware that they are made up of some of the most exploited people? Immigrants... many "illegal". Those that can't find word doing anything else but killing animals for a living all day... They are paid lowly wages to do the most brutal, horrendous jobs. They have the highest turn-over of any industry. The highest rate of injuries and accidents. The highest rate of depression, alcoholism and suicide. Surely a culture that condones this kind of "employment" can hardly consider itself to be "enlightened". It is a tragedy that such systems exist – Not only for the innocent animals but to the human victims (and society) as well.
@Bea:
And about the people hired to do the deed you yourself could not watch. Are you aware that they are made up of some of the most exploited people? Immigrants... many "illegal". Those that can't find word doing anything else but ***picking and crating fruits and vegetables for a living all day***...
Pot? This is Kettle.
Most Vegans I have known have come back to meat, Bea. It's a very inconvenient way to live. I wonder how long you'll hold out.
There is nothing humane about any slaughter. People like to fool themselves into thinking that buying meat labeled "humane" means that the animal had a pretty good life. How come we eat animals(cats, dogs, chickens, cows) but it is not ok to eat humans? We see that as wrong and sickening. Yet it ok to eat an animal that was raised in filthy, cramped conditions. An animal that was abused with electric prods in their eyes and rectums. Even skinned while dangling while still alive. You may say no that doesn't happen, but it really does. When you eat your burger do you loom at it and think what that burger used to be or the manner of death it had? How about how many different cows are ground up in this cheap burger? Please don't tell me local, small farms are more humane. They are not, take a look at http://www.humanemyth.org. Abuse happens everywhere.
Really in the end do what you want, but at least know what happens to animals before they become meat. As a previous meat eater I realized that I cannot be a part of this anymore. Those that poke fun of vegans and vegetarians I think know that deep down it is wrong yet choose to live a life of disconnect and pretend awful things don't happen to these creatures. Fear of changing and altering habits is hard, it is easier to tell yourself these horrific things don't go on and to make fun of others to make yourself feel better about your choices. The book "Slaughterhouse" by Gail Eisnetz is a true eye opening experience for those that want to enlighten themselves. .
If you aren't willing to kill it, then you shouldn't eat it.
I'm not willing to grow my own fruits & veggies either. Now what?
I have my sheep butched at a small shop in Western, PA. The man is very kind to the animals right up to the minute they go. I could not do it myself and even if I could there is allot to cutting meat correctly. It's well worth what I pay. I think its strange these new pig farmers would want to do their first pig themselves. I have helped butcher chickens and that was hard enough. I feel very good about eating the meat I raise and I know the animals have great lives until that fateful day comes.
Hi Beth.... Please define what "kind" is? Somehow the word "kind" and "kill" just don't jive with me. Thanks! :)
Even if you think dogs being euthenized in shelters is humane... think twice, Ive seen first hand experience of how humane it really is. Sure they have euthenasia solution readily available, but they dont always hit the vein, and sometimes they get jabbed in the heart – which they dont always hit in the first place either, then they flop around for a long time before they die.
Nothing in this world is humane
There's a reason you don't name what you eat.......It makes the connection much harder if you kill Fluffy to eat it than if you kill a rabbit. See dairy farmers(who name the cows) vs. Cattle ranchers (who assign the livestock a number).
While I don't want to be the one performing the slaughter, I must say I do enjoy pig.........and it's much easier for me to enjoy when I can buy it neatly packaged at the market and not have to perform the deed myself
They say if you go to a slaughter house and spend an hour you will never eat meat again.
“The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for white, or women created for men.” -Alice Walker
I guess she never saw a Holstein cow, a Merino sheep, Mille Fleur d'Uccle chickens, runner ducks or Runt pigeons. Perhaps she saw a stray poodle or Siamese cat in the alley and thought these animals actually existed in the wild? Not only were these animals created for humans, they were created in large part BY humans. Surely a Pulitzer Prize winner can manage a more intelligent comment than that.
From the first sentence the author got it wrong: " I was present for the death of the pig pictured above." The pig did not "die" it was *killed* – This person obviously can't even own the words let alone the act! Truly barbaric to needlessly KILL an innocent creature simply because of frivolous taste buds! Absurd to try to justify such acts. Repugnant! A violation of all that is civilized within us! We DO NOT have to do this! We can thrive on a compassionate plant based diet. I am grateful I have broken free from the indoctrinations that say otherwise! Please people... Let's evolve!
Ummm... we have evolved. You and your horde of crazies are the ones going in reverse.
Really? It is people who continue on the same path that we've been on for a long, long time: Killing without purpose. I don't consider that advancing our species one bit.
Humans have always hunted and eaten meat. Not eating meat is a choice, not nature or instinct.
Actually archeologists are discovering that early man was an *opportunistic* omnivore who ate mostly insects and carrion. The "hunt" scenes depicted on cave walls were such a rare event – That's why they were immortalized in art. It was much safer for man to eat plant based foods that were "safe" to procure. Challenging large creatures was not...
I figure your next comment will be about anatomy:
The Comparative Anatomy of Eating by Dr. Milton Mills:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/94656/The-Comparative-Anatomy-of-Eating
http://www.nhm.ac.uk/about-us/news/2008/september/neanderthal-diet-like-early-modern-humans21201.html
"The caves contain rich evidence of Neanderthal occupation covering more than 50,000 years, including hearths (area where a fireplace once existed), flint and stone tools, and butchered land mammals such as ibex, red deer, wild boar and bear."
'We already knew that Neanderthals were heavily carnivorous from sites further north in Europe,' says Professor Chris Stringer, Museum human origins expert. 'But now we have evidence that along the Mediterranean coast they also exploited marine foods, in a similar way to modern humans.’"
'They didn’t just eat big game,' adds Stringer. 'Their diet included rabbit and baked tortoise.'
There are far too many links to re-post here – But you might find this piece interesting. It has more updated information than the article you cite:
http://www.thediscerningbrute.com/2010/02/05/future-cave-man/
But to note – Early man may have eaten a huge amount of flesh at one sitting and fasted for 3 days afterward – We on the other hand have adapted ourselves to eat 3 times a day. Early man also did a huge amount of vigorous work just to stay alive – Most of us today hardly spend an hour's energy compared to what Neanderthals used in a week's time. Yet you still want us to eat like we (may) have millions of years ago?
@Bea Elliot
Ahh yes, the oft-quoted "medical authority" Milton Mills... Ingrid Newkirk's medical mouthpiece, and PCRMite.
For those who are unknowing, The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (of which Dr. Mills is the associate director) is effectively the "medical nutrition" wing of PETA. In fact, PETA has donated what... nearly $2 million dollars to the PCRM? They are a known pusher of the vegan/vegetarian agenda.
By the way... Bea? Milton's "Humans are Herbivores" mentality has long been laughed at and discredited by proper nutritionists and evolutionary biologists. In fact, the sheer audacity of Milton Mills to use bears as the "anatomical representatives" of omnivores with comparisons to humans, rather than primates, to prove his point is amazing. That's like comparing a whale to an elephant, on the basis that they are both large mammals.
Your arguments are the same useless, agenda pushing garbage that has been thrown around for decades. A true "humanist" would agree that moderation in association with biology is key, rather than either extreme... and that a life of convenience and disconnection is the cause of humanity's problems, not that it's a meat vs. plants issue.
...and don't get me started on the Soy industry...
you know what.........alll you complaining....grow up!!! u alll have ate meat before some time in your life in which that animal has died the same way!!!
You folks on both sides of this issue should read Temple Grandin. She is an autistic expert on animal husbandry, who has created humane factory slaughter systems. Her improvements are remarkable, no matter which side of this issue you are on. Just Google "Temple Grandiin" sanjosemike
There is also a very gifted man who has autism as well – His name is Jim Sinclair and he wrote this piece in answer to Ms. T. Grandin. It's called If You Love Something, You Don't Kill It:
http://animaladvocateswatchdog.com/cgi-bin/watchdog.pl/noframes/read/1776
Somehow, guessing from the title and the autism reference, you're kind of dumb if you actually read this.......most normal folks can utilize inference.
I grew up on a farm and we butchered pork and beef to exist. And to all you vegans out there, who says plants do not have feeling too!!! Believe me farmers would not just keep pigs and cattle around for pets if there was not a market for their meat, so they would end up slaughtered anyhow.
We should stop breeding them – if all they are "good" for is for killing. Problem solved.
I think it is horrendous the way our food is slaughtered, and they call it "humane"? It makes me want to be a veggitarian! I know that sounds hypocritical, but if they would slaughter them in a more humane way, it wouldn't be so bad. I can't believe they actually start butchering them when they are still alive! OMG....and we call ourselves humans? Give me a break!
They do this so the blood runs out... These animals actually "bleed to death". Absolutely unnecessary. We can thrive on a plant based diet. There is not such thing as "humane" slaughter. "Humane" means to be concerned with the alleviation of suffering. These beings are not ill, maimed or otherwise "unhealthy". They are not in an aging pain. They are delivered "fit for living", so there is no "suffering to alleviate". Killing for the sake of taste buds is not the best choice for "food"; Nor is it the path towards enlightenment. Thankfully, there are far better ways to live – compassionately.
I dare you to live in Alaska on a plant based diet. Double dog dare...er....double peanut butter DARE!
No tofu, eggs, you shrink and eventually can't forage.
Nature ALWAYS wins when man is stubborn.
Why do we slaughter pigs but not llamas? Why do we kill cows and chickens but not dogs and cats?
There's no need to eat meat, especially when so many delicious vegetarian alternatives are out there - and are healthier, less environmentally destructive, and cruelty-free. Learn more at http://www.TryVeg.com.
Yes... Pet one – And eat the other. It's called "carnism":
http://www.melaniejoy.org/why-we-love-dogs-eat-pigs-and-wear-cows/
It's moral dissonance.
I am a vegan vegetarian for health reasons. But the reality is that many people in the world don't have enough to eat. It's fine to be a vegetarian for ethical reasons, but that is still a "luxury" attitude, when (I) have a huge amount of food choices available, and can afford them.
This is simply not possible in most of the world. In some ways, screaming against meat is not just hypocritical, but also arrogant. Meat is a viable food because it is there and affordable.
However, soy protein is also very cheap and Asian cultures found out about this centuries ago. So, as long as you're willing to plant and use soy, it is still possible to eat vegetarian.
Bottom line: I don't criticize cultures that consume meat. As an atheist, I don't expect or consider "suffering" to be a religious issue. Suffering exists all throughout nature. That's just the way it is. sanjosemike
I think this author is a massive hypocrite to pretend that her self-indulgent musings, for which she gets paid, in any way mitigate the facts of killing an animal. I also think that reality show narcissists crying about killing an animal that they go ahead and kill anyway is more hypocritical self-indulgence. "I deliberately killed an animal who I got to know - but gosh, look how bad I feel as I chop his head off.." It's ridiculous.
At least the standard slaughter industry is honest, they treat these living, feeling, intelligent beings like things, and then kill them as if their deaths mean nothing. But to treat an animal like a pet, then plan and carry out his killing because - hey, a pig can't be a pet on a farm (as if A. the pig just showed up on his own and B. As if a farm is the one place there's no room for a pig) is such a complete and bizarre absence of conscience as to boggle the mind.
And could this "author" please not act as if these "farmers" just found themselves in this situation? You have to work hard to get on a reality show, you have to really want to be an exhibitionist. At least the Real Housewives of Wherever only torture each other. But a reality show where animals get killed so someone can be famous? And so this author can get paid to pretend she's sensitive because she watched the slaughter of just TWO of the many animals who have died so she can enjoy their tongues? No matter how bloody the death, THIS is the truly nauseating spectacle. You people would fit right in in ancient Rome, or a Chinese dog slaughter market.
Once again we all thank the universe that simply because you think it, does not make it so.
I second Jen... I don't undertand the purpose of this article.
@ OmniNJ – "Holier than thou": No one stands in judgement more than someone about to eat the flesh of an Other. It is YOU who thinks you are so "holy" and privileged that you have the "right" to a life when it's not "necessary" at all! It is a boastful and self-satisfying position to take against vegans who wish to cause as little harm as possible. Yes?
There is a back to the land movement starting. Many of the folks who are part of this movement are from the city and know little of farms or the countryside. They often have an idealized notion of farming and rural life, one that is far from the truth. When reality hits, it can be rather troubling. I think that is what the article is all about. Some people adapt and have a happy life. Others have a harder time coping and decamp to more densely populated areas. Bear in mind that Josh and Brent on the farm are part of a TV reality show, which, I suspect, is far from real life.
Vegetarianism or carnivorous delights...? I think I will cover both bases and have a BLT on fresh baked whole wheat bread. Porky and Bess, you rock.
Seriously... its called the food chain. Just be glad your at the top and quit the sob story routine.
Charlie – "Chains" can be broken... I don't want to be a slave to my food choices – Eating a plant based diet causes no unnecessary harm. I'd rather eat free from archaic "habit" and "tradition" – Now THAT's being "chained"!
@Bea:
Yes, chains can be broken. That's why many modern biologists refer to it as a food "web"... but before you spout off about eating meat being "archaic" and "tradition" and you don't want to be trapped in the "web" of it... think before you speak. You can't escape the web known as "biology".
Not eating meat in a conscious choice you have. Your body, however, does need the essentials you find in meat... and before you go off saying that everything you find in meat can be found in a plant based analogue... do your research. I have a letter and a number for you:
B12.
You cannot ingest that vitamin in appropriate quantities from anything natural other than meat (thanks to bacteria!), unless it has been specifically fortified or you take a supplement. A non-supplemented, non-fortified vegetarian/vegan diet will lead to being deficient, which will lead to impairment, which will lead to death if you don't seek medical attention. Period.
A non-fortified, non-supplement, vegetable-based diet is a slow death. You need supplementation... so all that research and study that went into figuring out what a body needs, etc... a lot of it was done using animal research. Your supplemented B12 was discovered thanks to testing on dogs... with liver/liver juice. Remember that. Meat is the reason cures were found, and meat led to your ability to make a choice.
Of course, don't get me started on calcium and iron...
I'm a farmer and I have a question.. To the hard line vegetarians, do you really believe that but growing vegetables no animals are hurt or killed? Do you know how much land it takes to grow the veggies we eat, forests and fields put under the plow that takes land away from the wild creatures? How many chemicals and pesticides factory farming puts on their product that leaches in to the soil and ground water poisoning fish, insect, amphibians, birds? Granted the factory industrial method of raising meat does the same thing. But for those true farmers there are ethics we follow. There is love for the animal, for the land and creatures we share it with. If you grow all your yearly needs for vegetable, I applaud you and salute you for that is truly amazing. But if you grow none and go to the Super Walmart, Whole foods or the Piggly Wiggly (or local grocery store), you are killing as many animal as I am. I just know mine, I know the cost.
Joe, you're trying to use logic, it won't work. The hardline vegetarians, or even worse, the super-nutso VEGANS don't want to hear it. The want us to all roam the plains and graze naked with our animal friends.
Joe, I am a vegan vegetarian (for health reasons), and I agree with you. In point of fact, small amounts of meat/week do you no harm, and provide good protein. However, it would be helpful if those products did not contain anti-biotics and artificial growth hormones.
My attitude on this is from someone who can "afford" to be a vegetarian. The fact remains that many people on Earth don't have enough to eat of any kind of food.
Frankly, although I am a vegan, I find the attitude of many ethical vegetarians to be arrogant and elitist. sanjosemike
sanjosemike- You are one of the few tolerable vegans/ vegetarians. Many others are just preachy and holier-than-thou.
" The fact remains that many people on Earth don't have enough to eat of any kind of food." Uhhh... You do realize we could feed about a billion people (the starving ones) the grain it takes to fatten livestock – Right? Not to mention the land and water resources that are wasted on a meat-based diet. Thoughts?
SanJoseMike,
I agree with OmniNJ, I don't want to insult people who area vegans for any reason but especially for medical reasons any more then I would people who don't drink milk because they are lactose intolerant. You bring reason to the vegan argument, thank you
Bea... it wouldn't be grain necessarily that would feed the world but rice, probably the genetically modified kind. But you can't grow grain (I'm assuming you mean wheat and corn) without fertilizer. Back in the day and still the way small farmers do it, we pasture our animals one year, grow vegetables the second, grasses the third letting the land rest and start the order once again with animals to graze. To do this without serious expense, monetary or environment, farms need to be small and to provide food to markets, here in the U.S. and where the people are starving. To grow grain to feed the world's starving here in the U.S. takes chemical fertilizers because of the industrial farm model, the majority of these fertilizers are petroleum based. This process grows plants but robs the soil, never giving it a chance to rest, the land needs the animals. Water is an issue for the foreseeable future, look at California and the percentage of the vegetables it provides and nearly all its water is channeled in for irrigation losing millions of gallons to evaporation on the way. It took damns on the Colorado and Columbia rivers which flooded hundreds of square mile of land for that power and irrigation, how many millions of animals were displaced not to mention people. How many salmon runs stopped because of them, how much damage was done to grow food on the scale we do in arid places, where nature didn't want us to.
Many of the Starving nations starve not because of the lack of food but because of the corrupt political or outlaw governments. Without a stable government, where people own their land and keep the value of what they grow/make every nation can be a starving one.
Pork....it's what's for dinner. Such is life if you are a meat eater. Pass the bacon.
If you are against killing animals for food you better also give up your leather belt and shoes and wear ones made of plastic derived from oil...so drill baby drill and destroy the envirnment that way.
Well Said!!
"Conservationists" often focus on what is in front of them, not the entire picture.
Changing your diet is very difficult. It is more difficult than giving up cigarettes because you can't give up food. Look how Catholics suffer during Lent if they give up chocolate or dessert. It requires some thoughtful planning. Most of us need to change what we eat and how much we eat. If you want to eat meat, eat lean, cook it well done, avoid cured products, and don't grill out. If you are in good condition and your doctor says your weight is perfect, then don't change anything.
If you are too heavy and in bad physical condition, then you should do something about it today. The longer you put it off, the harder it will be. If your child is fat and in bad physical condition, then you can and should change that kid's behavior right away.
To all you whining, self-righteous grazers out there, I got only one thing to say. -Oh boo hoo, cry me a river and pass the suckling pig BBQ...-
I'm eating my own hand as we speak.
All this vegetarian righteous indignation is so misplaced. Most of you have no idea of the impact of your diets. The amount of grasslands and animal habitats that have been destroyed to grow YOUR food. The number of animals that have been killed, the numbers of species that have been made instinct, so that you could eat your vegan lunch. Unless you're a vegan, growing all your own food, making all your own clothes from your own cotton, please don't judge the way others choose to live. I would bet anything that the "footprint" of this meat-eater on this planet will be significantly smaller than just about any vegan's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_vegetarianism
I am continually astounded at the differentiation we place between different species and how we have domesticated them. Animals were domesticated for function. Not to be our friends or manipulated replacements for human interaction in a modernity where each individual strives for control with all things they interact with. Livestock is in existence for food. Dogs and cats can serve as security or nuisance control for other wild creatures. The fact that we treat animals better than many children in our society is an indicator of our disconnect with the relationship with humanity that these species came about as a result of.
I am also astounded at the number of folks who could not witness the slaughter of a food animal. If you couldn't do it yourself I suggest you learn not to eat it as there is major disconnect in such behavior. It is also what allows the operation of the large industrial meat mills whose horrendous treatment of production animals continue today. Yes I eat meat, but I know where it comes from and I have helped at times in it's production. I suggest more people get involved with the processes which are at the foundation of their needs.
The author is to be commended for self education about her dietary choices. Pigs who are not confinement victims are a gourmet delight.
Species that do not have economic benefit are not commonly found on farms.
The only way you can reach the goal to avoid suffering for the animals you eat is to raise them your self and slaughter them your self. Killing an animal that is rasied for food is not soulless or someone with no compassion, it is what man has been doing since the dawn of time. Other countries that look on animals as food like dogs and cats is just another culture mindset. If we as Americans came to this new land in the 1600's found it overrun by dogs and cats and that was the only meat source what do you think would have happened. I am a cat lover, I have five. I live in the country on 11 acres. I love all my cats, but the true test of love is when your animal is old and can no longer function like walk or eat because of a stroke, can you love that animal enough to put it out of its pain? My Austin was 15yrs old. Killing her was the hardest thing I have ever done. Yet killing a cow or a pig we have rasied for food does not bother me just like killing a deer in winter for food does not bother me. I do thank the animal for the service but I do believe that is what they are for.
This article is really disturbing. I would be ashamed to have written this. I only hope someday people can stop being so totally heartless and stop killing animals for any "purpose."
Jen, I respect your position, but you need a healthy dose of reality. If we stop killing animals for 'any purpose', we have an immediate threat of starvation for a good part of the human population. In all honesty, there are lots of populated regions where farming is next to impossible. With insufficient crops, those populations will dwindle quickly.
Additionally, without population control of the wildlife, herd sizes of whitetail deer alone would soon outstrip the environment's ability to sustain them. Under ideal conditions, those herds would be regulated by predators such as wolves, mountain lions, etc. However, those populations are insufficient to the task, admittedly by fault of humans. But that doesn't excuse the need for predation. It just calls for a different predator.
If we stop killing animals, we kill humans instead, at least in the short term. In the long term, we doom domesticated and prey animals to eventual over population and resulting starvation. Either way, we are guilty of death. I'd rather be guilty of killing by careful selection than by neglect.
well folks i hate to tell you all this ... besides slaughter to eat animals, any of you with leather interiors in there vehicles or anyone wearing leather shoes... GUESS WHAT??? the animals didnt take off there hide so you could wear it or use it..so get off your soap boxes. I have news for you all, without farmers and poeple killing animals you would all starve!!
I don't eat any meat and I am not starving. I eat really good quality food actually. Actually have not been sick in over ten+ years. I am not overweight nor do I have diabetes. When I had my physical the nurse commented how great my cholesterol level was, said it was one of the lowest she has seen in a long time. She credited my diet for this.
I drive a wonderful expensive foreign car that has a cloth interior and I don't wear any leather shoes or accessories either. I am not a hippie or granola. I am educated and I have done enough research to make this wonderful change in my life. So please don't make assumptions about non meat eaters. We aren't self righteous we just happen to have more compassion and the brains to evolve. I don't owe anything to the meat industry or farmers. There are others ways to make a living besides abusing animals for profit. Everything you stated is quite silly.
You're also really uppity. If you didn't have a leather interior, he wasn't talking to you, Miss Educated & Important/
I used to be a meat-eater... but I just can't rationalize it anymore. It was different when I grew up in a rural area eating meats from animals raised on local family farms – but now, I don't think I could even do that, not with so many alternatives available to me that don't involve the death of a creature. Don't even get me started on how bad factory farms are, both in their treatment of animals and what they do to the environment...
It takes "courage" to watch a pig slaughtered? Please. The pig dies, and the human thinks that witnessing that death requires "courage"? That's incredibly hypcritical and self-indulgent.
What this article shows, more than anything, is that technology's outpacing of the need to kill to survive has done terrible damage the human mental constitution. It's one thing, a normal thing, to become attached to animals and to feel guilt when we kill them, as kill them we often must for one reason or another. It's quite another, more pathetic, loathsome, base, snivelling and subhuman thing to whine that merely witnessing that requires "courage." As if you are the one getting shot here. If you think that constitutes courage, you have no clue what real courage is. Maybe you need to get your pansified backside out of the city and relearn the harsh realities of life.
This author may not be a vegetarian, but he has the rotten, hyopcriticalm pus-coated soul of one. And that rot and pus, that hypocrisy, is called the fear of death. We do this same nonsense with the death penalty, pretending that "humane" killing methods are adopted for the benefit of the one being killed – when they're really for our benefit, to distance ourselves from the harsh reality of Death, because WE are afraid. Hypocrites.
Every animal, including the human, is food for someone. Every animal, including the human, dies. You will die. You will be dead dead dead. And there's nothing you can do about it. Deal with it, and get a freaking grip. The waning of Nature's threat to human life has produced a human population of soft, whiny losers.
I am so ashamed of my fellow "men" right now.
N.B., Pork is delicious.
(Just for the record, I'm not a man.)
Yeah, my apologies. I noticed that on re-read. Sometimes I get all lathered up and post before I've got all my details straight.
Hey – no fret. We all do.
I realized that putting this out here, not everyone was going to agree with me - how could they possibly? But people are talking, intelligently, and that can't be a bad thing.
1. If you don't have the guts to kill & butcher an animal, then you shouldn't be eating meat.
2. If you think killing animals for meat is cruel but you buy meat nicely packed in plastic wrap you are a hypocrite for letting others do your dirty work.
3. I'm sure old timers in the USA and people in other countries must think Americans are p#ssies.
The article tries to bring some integrity to the heartless process of commercial slaughter. Go watch Food Inc. See how how brutal and stressful it really is when corporate CEO dictate so many thousand animals must die & be processed in a shift. And when you consider the pig is shown to be as intelligent and trainable as a dog - why is it acceptable we eat them? We'd be horrified if someone was doing this to dogs.
Speak for yourself. I've eaten dog. It tasted fine. I don't have a problem with harvesting dogs for food.
Dog tastes remarkably normal, I was really taken aback. Still not as nutty about it as my East Asian friends, but really, people get bent out of shape over the sheer mental leap.
Now in all seriousness snake is wierd
Excellent article. Many years ago I took up hunting for exactly this reason: a gut check. The commitment I made to myself then was that if I ever had a problem with it, I would go vegetarian. I applaud you for your courage in facing down the hypocrisy of many omnivores who will enjoy a good burger but are outraged at pictures of the abattoir.
May we assume then that you go periodically to the local sewage treatment plant to assist in the processing. After all, if you insist upon using your toilet, you should be willing to "see it through to the finish". Now, see how stupid that sounds!
You know, squirrel is divine, really, but OH man! What a smell!!!!!!!
Never understood how something that looks so damn cute could smell as bad as the inside of a squirrel....
This is why I don't eat red meat (including pigs). It hurts knowing that you are eating an animal that has the same feelings as you, same emotions and your are eating it not because you need to, but because you want to. I am a powerlifter and tuna (occasionally chicken breast) is good enough for me.
What about the dolphins (you know they're in the tuna you buy... disclaimers notwithstanding) ?
Wow, how much tuna do you eat? Do you know how high in mercury tuna? If you're eating it more than once a week, you're heading for the dementia ward at the nursing home.
I don't get our nation today. Everyone so politically correct. A day in age when you can be punished more for harming an animal than for harming a child. It's ridiculous. This nation has lost sight of what it once believed in. Instead of having an article of killing a hog for food, how about we focus on the youth of our nation who are born to poor situations and need the help? I have killed hogs and cattle before for food, and there is nothing wrong with it, it's food. So lets focus on the real problems this nation has.
and who came up with the stupid law banning bestiality ?
I know, right, they make me feel like a criminal, for what? Love?
Why is love a crime?
I'm all for focusing on "real problems" but in between focusing on "real problems" i can still choose to not eat meat, right? I can still be outspoken about the problems meat raises, right? Veganism and positive political activism aren't mutually exclusive.
Hi there,
We have run a few pieces about childhood hunger in the past week alone:
http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2010/07/06/q-a-tom-colicchio-talks-childhood-hunger/
http://eatocracy.cnn.com/2010/07/07/no-free-lunches-for-school-kids-say-some/
We're working on making this content easier to find. Thanks for reading!
I never saw my Great Grandfather madder than when he found out that I had "named" one of his new calves. He made it clear to me that these were not pets. They were livestock and destined for someone's dinner table.
Well, I raise and kill 30,000 pigs per year. As long as the demand for pork continues and hence the good profits I will continue doing so. Thanks to everyone for buying pork.
farmerjeani: I'd shoot cats, too. I am a breeder of German shepherd dogs, and if you think they do not have feelings you are dead wrong. The article about the pigs is disgusting, and so is your commentary – which is why I do not eat meat and never will. We would all be much healthier is we all stopped eating dead flesh, anyway.
As for the other moron farther up the page: PEOPLE choose to go to war, animals do not choose to be killed for food!! Idiot.
If yours is an example of the temperament of non meat eaters, then I'm glad to be a contented carnivore!
give me a tube steak sausage anyday rather than listening to you hetros
Hate to break it to you, but dogs ain't people. They're for guarding the house and blaming strange smells on.
Get a life.
One added thought-how many of you folks who think eating meat is despicable live in a subdivision that has crowded out the animals that once lived there, cutting off their access to food and water, forcing them into slow starvation or an equally painful death of dehydration? If you don't live in the inner city that has been developed for 50 years, you are probably guilty. And if you do live in the inner city you are probably guilty of murdering rats, mice, cockroaches, etc. Do you differentiate between rats and pigs? Between animals and insects? And how do you judge between sentient and insentient? How do you know that a cockroach doesn't experience joy and satisfaction in life?
everyday I ask these questions along with why won't anyone touch me. My warts are in remission.....
I can't choose the way my communities were created. I don't have the resources to build my own house in a way that's more in tune with the local environment. I can choose to not eat meat though. I know I live in a society where cruelty to animals is intrinsic to its operation. Just because I can't do everything doesn't mean I should do nothing.
There are many distasteful tasks that we pay other people to do for us every day. Why should the slaughter of food animals be any different?
or tranny hookers, or donkey shows?
Notice the vocabulary change from the beginning to the end of the article. This is a perfect rendering of the transition an animal goes through being dissected and turned into a commodity. The popularity and curiosity urban and upper class people have with 'free range' and 'organic' meat is reflective of a desire to live a more sustainable lifestyle without compromising their diet. Essentially, reform without reform; a revolution that's pointless and inept instead of bloodless. As long as articles like this continue to be written the most ethical among us will look for ways to buy the right kind of meat rather than simply abstaining from meat, the right hybrid car instead of driving less. Does it really make it better to know that the animal you're eating had a name? Personally, I think it's more abhorrent. I'd rather eat a faceless nameless not-even-numbered hog than one swindled into sacrifice for a more ethically palatable dish.
Cruelty is cruelty, any way you slice it.
The only reason why animals are eaten is because they cannot say, "please don't eat me". Pigs are extremely intelligent and every animal has feelings including pain. The only positive thing is the animals are getting revenge on those who eat them. Hormones, chemicals, and of course enjoy your beef now so you can deal with your heart disease later. However, those who do slaughter ethically, I take my hat off to you.
Enough is enough, move on. . . . .
I was once in a car wreck where I was thrown into the windshield and then into the street (before seat belts were available in all cars). I felt no pain. Not until much later when I woke up. As a retired farmer, I can tell you that every animal we ate was raised not just with respect, but with love as well. They had their ears and butts scratched, they were fed treats and on slaughtering day they received a bowl of wine first. All were stunned, rendering them immediately unconscious and suffered no pain. Eating meat or not is a personal choice, but if you make that choice you should understand that slaughter isn't pretty but can be done ethically with love. On the other hand, animals have no respect for each other, and seldom kill their prey before consumption. Pigs are the most brutal of all and every farmer knows if you are down for any reason, your pig, pet or not will probably eat you. Animals are not people and most don't have your loving feelings. Yes our dogs and cats love us, but how many household pets have inexplicably turned on their owners and killed them. When I was a young child we had an elderly neighbor who shot every cat he saw out of its own yard. The reason? Feral cats had come in through an open window and killed and partially eaten one of his infant children. Again, animals are not people and don't have a sense of morality. They may be intelligent, but they act primarily on instinct.
That's one of the smartest postings I've seen. Thanks.
Actually, animals do have the "loving" feeling as do humans. Of course wild cats are going to eat an infant. They are not raised or were not around people. So if you saw a cow and killed it, YOU would have no "loving" feeling because, indeed, you killed the cow for food. Hence, with your logic, you would be part of a species that seems to have no "loving" feeling. Your logic is very flawed. There is a reason why you are/were a farmer and not an engineer or doctor.
@Lem:
No, your logic is flawed. All humans are animals, but not all animals are humans. You cannot, in true meaning, say that a pig has the same emotions (feelings) as humans, since they are not humans. They may have "feelings" (as in, a base instinctual process) such as fear, attraction, etc... but putting anything more on those base instincts is anthropomorphizing it... which is above and beyond rational thought.
People have forgotten that A) we are animals, and B) we are *part* of the ecosystem, not the rulers of it.
Try making a living farming, jerk, it's not simple. Things grow, but to steer development of living things to where you want it to be it rough.
Happen to know a Doctor that killed his yard. Real smart. Also had an affair that kanked his marriage and tore up his 4 kids lives.
Real compassion, real people, real progress. Get a life
farmerjeani – AGREED.
A post I am totally in agreement with!
Excellent point, at the time of severe injury the body (human and animal) released adreneline and shuts down the part of the nervous system related to pain, generally a state of shock. I had third degree burns (I would argue one of the most painful experiences anyone can endure) but did not feel any pain until much later when my natural defense system (above) wore off a day or so later.
I think the only hypocrites here are those opposing our cultivation of livestock. As you've pointed out with your tragic story, no hungry animal will be concerned with a human's feelings and suffering if the circumstances were switched. Additionally, our omnivore diet has put us at the top of the food chain for a reason and if it was possible to send our vegan bretheren back to that stage of our evolution they'd still be in the jungle!
I used to be a vegetarian too so i could relate to this author's article. It IS still heart-wrenching and i could never witness a killing which makes me a total coward. if you're going to eat meat, you should be able to see the whole thing thru. maybe i'll quit eating meat again....
Well, lions eat gazelles, sharks eat fish, and men eat meat. I don't see anything "un-natural" in this, although I agree that we are eating TOO much meat, and that modern ways of raising cattle are sometimes cruel and in-humane. I have seen pigs being slaughtered and it's not a pretty scene, but a predator in nature hunting his prey is not a pretty scene either. We don't deny them their food though. Yet, we humans do have higher intelligence and higher compassion, so until the day when we all become vegetarians, slaughtering the animals we eat should be done with the the goal that we should avoid them as much suffering as possible, and give them as good a life as possible before that. I also think that bringing the animals from one place to the other for slaughtering is cruel, and the way they killed that pig in the article was the best way to do it.
Non-human animals also sniff each others butts and engage in incest, but that does not mean humans should do it too. That doesn't make it "natural" for people.There is no humane way to take a life.
Humans sniff butts as well as have incest... nice analogy.
we do stranger more unnatuiral things like wearing cologne, shaking hands, kissing.. etc..
Actually, most states agree that lethal injection is the most humane way to take a life....
...and the pussification of America continues...
I think vegetarians like me tend to be more compassionate. I imagine the pain and the distress of the animal as it is inhumanely raised and killed. It creates a feeling of revulsion in me which I do not detect in my carnivorous friends.
They are not compassionate by nature and they say, "What the hell, it's only a dog (or cow or calf or goat). Who cares if it suffers? It's not a person." The same folks would say, "What the hell, it's only a commie (or terrorist or whatever). They deserve to die."
On the other side of my argument, let me mention the name of history's most famous vegetarian: Adolph Hitler. He tormented dinner guests by describing to them the filth of the slaughter house and the pain of the animal as they ate it – like many vegetarians do today. He was also very fond of children and loved interacting with them. He did have some character flaws I have heard, but they were probably small ones.
That wasn't an argument, don't fool yourself. That was a self-righteous sermon from Terry from West Texas. If you want to form an argument, research the correlation between evolution and the inclusion of vaster amounts of protein in the diets of homosapiens that gave our brains the fuel to grow larger and develop the capacity for language, reasoning, and social structure. But an argument about you feeling the way you do is a waste of everyone's time but apparently yours.
Laurien was absolutely correct. The human race could not have evolved its massive brain without animal protein. Our cousin the chimpanzee eats small animals and bugs (a great source of protein) as well as fruits, vegetables, and roots. Without the dense nutrients provided by animals and bugs, you can't support a big brain in the wild. Note the relative stupidity of grazing animals versus the intelligence of predators and the even greater intelligence of omnivores like pigs, chimps, and people. A vegetarian like me can only exist in modern society where there are plenty of sources of non-animal dense nutrients.
and when was it ever a crime or taboo to milk bulls? I for one am not a pussy to admit Ive tugged a stud or two.
Hahaha, the banter here is great! First off, I want to say I'm a meat-eater but I believe it should be an ethical/humane raising and slaughter. Those of you arguing Pig vs. Dog as a meal allow me to point something out. As stated in the article every animal on the farm served a purpose which required them to stay alive, even the lama (comic relief, but I assume sheering as well). However, the pig is only useful once slaughtered, it is otherwise a drain on the resources of the farm. Now, dogs have been bread to serve many roles; hunter, tracker, retriever, guard, and companion to name a few tasks which can only be served if...say it with me...they are kept alive! Any animal can be deemed a 'companion' and if that's the only purpose for their existance and you want to provide the services and care then go get yourself a dog, cat, pig, llama, orangutang, w/e! As far as Asia, they don't always have the luxury of raising livestock so dog/cat is the logical choice and if I had no other options...I'm hungry, please pass the Lasie fillet and Garfield-kabobs. I love my dogs and would protect them with my life, but doesn't mean Fido down the street is beyond repreive given the hypthetical "End of Days" scenario. To each their own I guess.
For a stark reality check on slaughtering, check out: http://www.earthlings.com/ You'll be amazed at how animals are treated, before during and after the slaughter process.
Everything dies, only a chosen few get eaten, get over it.
Are we supposed to feel sympathy with the farmers?? Never!!!!! If you feel so bad, then stop doing this!!!
Eat vegetarian and all the problems will be solved and animals will live free from pain and suffering. For what you do to the animals will be paid back in kind!!!!!!!
put an end to war in the world then you can complain about animal cruelty... prioritize...
Muslims dont eat pork because it is said that Mohammed was raised by a wild pack of pigs.
Puberty must have been tough....
PETA member here (People Eating Tasty Animals) I grew up on a farm and we learned at an early age not to make pets out of disposable animals ( chickens, ducks geese PIGs and just about any extra Male animal), born on the farm because sooner or later they see the inside of the freezer
I am a happy meat eater. Why? I have had more BAD, ROTTEN and supposedly FRESH produce & fruits the last 15 years or so, that I do not ever want a salad again.
While the meat industry is gaining strides everyday with top quality products, the fruit & produce industry is FAILING!
It's a sad fact of nature that carnivores need to kill to eat. I love animals, however, I have no problem eating them. My only real problem is the way corporate farms handle these animals. At a minimum, for its sacrifice to us humans, these animals should be allowed to live a peaceful life. Veal crates, hog farms, chickens packed in cages never seeing the light of day sicken me. Cold hard capitalism dictates this treatment as a means of greater efficiency, lower cost and higher profits. Capitalism needs to be tempered by ethics and morality. In agriculture, this can only be achieved with laws. Without them, the practice will only become more savage, more despicable more toxic to the human conscience and potentially, the human body.
Thank you! I am a vegetarian – I do not have a problem with eating animals but strongly disagree with the way we breed, raise and slaughter them in this country. I hate the ignorant backlash you get – like the killing carrots comments – I do not hang out talking to the sun and hugging trees all day which is what a lot of people seem to think it is about. Swing Flu came from NC – from a hog farm – we are killing ourselves eating this way b/c we are eating crap, there is no part of me that wants to eat a cow that was fed corn, fat, antibiotics, hormones and very little else for its life while being kept in disgusting conditions that breed disease
This is precisely why I am a vegetarian. If you wouldn't be able to kill it/watch it die yourself then you shouldn't be eating it, that's my litmus test.
This article is rounded, informed, and sensitive and I applaud the author for her openness. In making her ethical decision, she applies both reason and compassion, something that I wish more Americans were able to do. That she was able to participate in the process, be aware of the origin of her food, and still be able to consume meat isn't something to be condemned, it's just something different from my personal feelings. If she can watch then she deserves to be able to eat it. I can't watch; I don't get to eat it. As long as animals are raised humanely (which these clearly were) and slaughtered with as little trauma as possible (again, they went beyond the average, though it can still be argued that slaughter can never be humane), I don't have a problem with someone other than myself consuming them. All I ask is that you be fully aware of your food–who it was, where it comes from, how it died–before you tuck in. Many of my loved ones would have selected "I couldn't possibly" and they will get upset when they think about the cute baby lamb that is now on the table before eating it, and that is just hypocrisy.
Thank you, CNN, for posting such a thoughtful (and thought-provoking) piece!
I actually can almost understand raising animals for food... what I CAN'T understand is where we think we have the right to torture them in confinment and then in slaughter houses PRIOR to eating them.
IF you're going to eat or wear an animal, kill it quickly and HUMANELY.
Come one, farmers use gestation crates, veal crates, battery cages. There's nothing many farmers won't do as long as there's money invovled. Yank a baby calf from its mother, put it in a stall where it can't move at all, in the dark 24/7- feed it an anemic diet so it's sickly all the time – sure thing! Veal brings a good price. Stuff egg laying chickens in battery cages where they have less room to move than the size of a piece of paper – sure no problem. You get lots of eggs that way. Allow an animal to graze, move freely, live a natural life according to its instincts – nope, cost too much money.
.... those are the rare circumstances. Stop taking the few violators as though they are a perfect example of all of them. The majority aren't like that. Stop fear mongering.
Those stories are untrue and Ill bet you.
If you can prove any of these stories, I'll have sex with a pig and film it on youtube! LOL, I already did.
Melissa's foul mouth gives meat eating a bad name and I'm sure that she's never been on a farm. I'm a ND farm girl and will farm with my fiance after college and I can tell you that everything that the guy in the previous post said is true. Take veal which is usually bull calves from dairy farms which bull calves are not economically viable unlike a heifer which will produce milk so the bull calves have to be culled otherwise they'll drink milk meant for humans but farmers can get good prices for crated veal which is calves put in crates so they can't develop muscle which makes them more tender. Our neighbor dairy farms and has a veal operation on the side and I can't bear to see those poor calves. Chickens in chicken houses have it even worse crowded and such.
Diad is absolutely correct. Google it. You'll find pictures that will make you puke.
I think I'll stick where I'm at. Fish, poultry, and very little other types of meat. Frankly, the rest of it isn't great for your health anyway. Did the vegetarian thing (forget vegan, I'd kill myself) for 9 months, till one night I woke up hallucinating fried chicken ;-)
I had a girlfriend who looked like a pig. I never killed her but I did eat her every once in a while. Nicely written article.
Yes! Incredible post, sir.
I own and operate a small diversified farm, and sell shares in beef and pork. Unlike the subjects of this interview, I have them processed at a small, family owned, USDA inspected facility just down the road from my farm. The steers and pigs live in large grassy pastures, with plenty of shade and fresh clean water. Yes, they are killed and eaten. No, there is nothing wrong with that. I know where my food comes from. It is not cheap, processed, plastic "product". The animals don't travel thousands of miles to be slaughtered. They are not filled with chemicals. I don't use herbicides or pesticides. I don't fatten them on corn. They taste delicious, the meat is healthy and nutritious, and the animals have a good life and a quick death. My customers are happy, and I sleep well at night knowing I did right by them, and the animals in my care. I love being a farmer. I love the land and the animals. If Americans weren't so insistent upon cheap nasty food, all our animals could have a great life and humane death. And farmers would not be an endangered species, nor would we be importing melamine tainted food from China. Support your local farmer!!!!!
Good to know. Wish more people understood like you do. I've never had a problem with killing these animals because I always understood that they aren't pets, and all the ones I have ever seen have been well cared for.
Thank you, very much, for that post. A hard working, knowledgeable farmer who understands the problems of convenience and the need for moderation.
You are definitely one of the ones I'd support. Do you ship interstate? :)
Raised on a farm slaughter was just a fact of life. Our parents instilled in us the wisdom that the animal died so we could live. We honored the animal's sacrifice by not wasting it and thus wasting it's life. I still live that way and it hurts to see how much food is thrown out.
Now that I can agree with.
have you ever tasted cock meat? Its delicious, I never get enough.....
"... animal died so you could live?" Please realize that this was untrue. Animals DON'T have to die for you to live. In fact, you would HEALTHIER if you did not consume meat. Just look at every society on this planet that has a meat rich diet. They're all fat and consumed with health problems. Do the tens of millions of vegetarians who are alive and healthy not show you that you DON'T have to eat meat? It is a choice, not a necessity. Humans kill animals because they can – and this has never been the basis of a moral, conscience being.
Americans are so disconnected from where their food comes from. The fact the above conversation is taking place is proof. If we all had to raise the food we eat, we would appreciate much more the farmers who do it. Be glad you don't have to spend all your extra time raising your own food. Webster said "when tillage begins, other arts follow." The only reason our country is so affluent is because the vast majority of us can spend our time doing other things that raising food.
All of this was, of course, completely unnecessary. Having not eaten meat for over 20 years, I can't understand how they can even swallow those cracklings after what they just did. People rationalize these behaviors and betrayals based on the type of teeth they have, but there are many examples of humans overcoming their animal instincts in favor of being more civilized. Not to mention the harm meat production causes the environment.
But never mind. You like the taste. Bitter fruit, indeed.
who cares.....if i have to get out there and kill it myself...i won;t have a problem...
call me crazy but I'm not afraid of killing any animal.
Hell I ate out a female cat on a dare.....
I have two pigs as pets. 1 – 3 years male large and 1 – 10 months old female small
Pigs are rated currently as number 4 just behind whales/dolphins in intelligence.
Their brains are alot like ours – hunter/gather..
I haven't eaten pork in 3 years and probably never will again.
These animals have shown me very sophisticated behaviors and they are incredibly easy to train in terms of bathroom habits.
My pigs don't smell and sleep on dogs beds in different areas in my home at night. The male goes to the bathroom 60 yards from the house unless it's raining which he hates.. He asks to go out to go the bathroom in the morning and the female goes out to her area. The female is more careless and goes near her outside doghouse. Each pigs seem to be different in terms of "dirty" behaviors if given the opportunity not to have to defecate near it's housing area.
I respect the author in terms of having the guts to stand their and watch the animals die. I'm to the point that I'm starting to feel that if you want to eat meat kill it yourself. Nugent Style!
Personally I'm going more toward vegetarian..
Concerning the other pigs lack of interest in the death of his penmate.. Pigs put control of food and territory of above all else.
They tend to be paranoid in general in personality and some what bossy. But very easy to handle without getting verbally or physically harsh with them.
They also become picky about their food if given the opportunity.
So you decided that they're pets and want everyone else to change their lives because of it. Sorry. Go ahead and keep your pets if you like, but pigs are food.
and I eat pork as much as I eat tube steak, so I know that its important for women like me to eat as much meat as possible.
I try getting as much protein as I can throughout the day. Pork, beef , cock whatever I can get my hands on!
Oy *rolls eyes* the person that just replied to me is just a troll. Ignore them please.
She gave a lot of info which was interesting and insightful. Fairly neutral too. Pigs are not my "food" nor are they "food" for many other people, religions and cultures. So speak for yourself ignoramus. Anything being "food" is an OPINION, not fact. It depends on the individual's perspective.
@pearsdb:
"Pigs are rated currently as number 4 just behind whales/dolphins in intelligence."
That is a human invention, the rating of "intelligence" of animals. Stop anthropomorphizing animals. They are not humans, thus they do not have human biology, human feelings, human social structures, etc. A true biology-based, neutral form of descriptions must be adhered to... instead of this mammalcentric crap. Dolphins are pack hunters... an animal with more of an individual hunting strategy shows far more ability (i.e. "intelligence") for problem solving, adapting to situations, etc. You want smarts? Look to the cephalopods. Hell, one even correctly predicted the World Cup...
Jews have been humanely slaughtering animals for millinia. Research Kosher laws of animal slaughter. Definitely no pigs being slaughtered though :-D
Hilter thought the same thing when killing jews!
What is a Jews biggest dilemma?
Free pork
What an idiotic comparison.
Jews have been slaughtering humanely for millenia? Hindus don't slaughter at all – can't get more humane than that.
I had to vote that I was torn. I'm a product of the city, and as a kid spent a lot of time with relatives in the country, but I have never witnessed a slaughter. City people KNOW where meat comes from, but they probably don't consider how it got there. As I think about slaughter houses and their methods, and think about the way the above slaughter was conducted, I wonder about various cultures such as the American Indians who, as I understand from my education, gave thanks to their gods for the animal they killed. Other religions cherish every life, to include the tiniest of creatures. It's a hard thing to think about. Thanks for the article, I enjoyed it.
Life is tough, and we step on ants all day long. Vegetarians are fine with clearing forests and destroying animal habitat to plant row crops, while Elmer Fudd kills da wabbit dat eats his cawwots, as long as it doesn't happen in front of their eyes. Better to stalk a deer through woods filled with little creatures than to stalk celery through silent rows of monocrops.
Damn right.
hello melissa,
do you have a myspace page?
I do, but I'm not comfortable posting it on here because I say alot of things people don't like and I have coworkers that might see the nasty replies I might be sent. :) If you feel comfortable, you're welcome to post yours and I'll add you.
I have no idea what I am saying......excuse me as i come fram a farm.
Nat so bad but was good and fun on wednesdays when it whas my turn to milk bulls
Do you know how much land is require to raise meat?? It takes a lot of grain to make a pound of meat – rougly 7 lbs for each pound of meat – we could feed a lot more people on a lot less land if we had a plant based diet.
So what. I'm not going to stop eating hamburgers because you nutcase vegetarians want me too.
Natacow,
It depends on the animal. 7 pounds for cattle yes, 3-3.5 for pigs, just over a pound for chickens, fish you get a pound of meat wth less than a pound of grain.
why are people so threatened by someone who eats veggies? In fact, meat eaters also eat a lot of fruits/vegetables, so would they be considered nutcases too when eating from that food category? The fact that raising cows contributes to pollution and that all those animals need food that comes from land is true. They aren't being raised on AIR. It's something to consider, before saying that ALL vegetarians want all forests eliminated for food. Meat eaters contribute to this issue as well. Whether it's meat eaters or vegetarians, we all need land to grow stuff. I know many who grow their own food on their own land.
This is exactly why I went vegan and why you should.
its funny, but i kinda want to get myself some pork chops now...yum yum!
look, if you want to be vegan, good for you. i hate it when people try to impose their wills on others...
That's hardly an attempt to convert – just an opinion. Some meat eaters, when questioned, are so easily threatened and defensive. Maybe they are just secretly ashamed or just too lazy to try something else more healthy. If you're secure in your choice of food, you'd not have to brag about it with offensive remarks *pork chops yum yum* – are you five years old or what? Or maybe you're a closet vegan, not ready to come out yet.
10 billion animals are slaughtered in teh US alone every year. Who is imposing on whom?
This is so inhumane. Eating meat is. When we eat meat we eat the animals fear, anxiety, karma and consciousness. In ancient Vedic philosophies its written that meat eaters take birth as that animal the same number of time as the hair on the animals body and get slaughtered to suffer the pain.
No, its not. Whats inhumane is that you want to treat them like they're you're friends.
Nitin, I hear you and know where you're coming from. Vedic philosophy was a thousand years ahead of its time. Don't waste your time with these people esp. this Mellisa. It will be a long time before they catch up. In a thousand years, they will realize their barbaric ways. Unfortunately, hundreds of millions of animals will have to die until they do so.
Do the carrots feel pain when we rip their living bodies from the ground. They're alive too. We kill and eat them. I guess humans just shouldn't eat and we should all die. I pay someone to raise and kill the animals for me just like I pay someone to raise my vegetables and cut my grass.
We have to eat. Plants do not get hurt when we pull the fruit or vegetable from them. Yes they are alive, but the pain is nothing. In ancient indian texts its said that we should offer the vegetables and fruits and grains to god before we eat them to take away the sin. But not animals. And OBVIOUSLY we can see that the animal is suffering more than the grass. Cmon as humans we are more intelligent to understand the difference. Its like why not eat humans because they are higher beings. Similarly animals are higher beings. Especially cows.
rofl. You haven't read the Christian bible have you? In the Christian bible, their god thinks that the smell of burning flesh is wonderful. Though they love to say "thats the old text, it doesn't count anymore" because they pick and choose.
It doesn't matter what ancient texts say. The ancients also thought disease was caused by demons and that the earth was flat. Ancient texts, including the Maleus Malifacarum (sp) talked about the best way to hunt and kill witches including how to burn them alive. That doesn't make those texts right.
There is no reason we should stop eating meat other than that some idiots in this world want to think that these animals are our friends.
As a strong Christian and a meat eater I want to point out that Melissa is wrong. Isaiah 1:11-16: "The multitude of your sacrifices– what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? Stop bringing meaningless offerings! ... Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong!" And in Daniel the children of Israel were healthier because they at pulses (lentils and beans) instead of the meat that their captors ate. Maybe God liked sacrifices early on in the Bible like in Genesis but maybe He changed his mind. Anyway as much as I like meat and will be a lifelong meat eater but I can't picture Jesus eating meat which maybe I'm hypocritical. But I am going to eat less meat because of the sustainability aspect and my fiance and I will farm after college on his dad's farm and we'll slaughter our own cattle humanely like the article says.
Ok... I'm a butchers daughter. No, I don't think that "I" could kill them. That doesn't mean I think its wrong to kill and eat meat. We are omnivores, we need to eat meat. Period.
The first thing these people did wrong was naming those pigs. Naming them turns them in to pets, rather than animals meant for the slaughter.
Second thing they did wrong was this stupid and idiotic idea that they should kill it with a rifle. Modern producers, if they have any brains in their heads, will use an air gun to shoot a hole into its brain, killing it instantly. Shotguns are extremely messy items that have a very large chance of causing trauma to the meat making it partially unusable (I could go in to detail but this is as explained by my father who has been a meatcutter and butcher since he was 18 years old).
Thirdly, this article is trying to scare you. Its trying to get you to turn them in to pets too so you will swear off meat. Humanity needs meat. Our jaws area created in such a way as to eat meat. Our bodies need the proteins and vitamins that meat provides.
So get over it already.
And incidentally, if those pigs had been originally intended to eat, there would never have been only two of them in the yard. More likely they had originally been adopted as pets but they couldn't care for them anymore. You need at least two pigs of opposite sex to continue breeding to ensure you have pig meat later on. Since there was only two of them, they were never intended to be eaten.
Oh puhlease. We do not "need" meat. Its not an accident that protien exists in other forms and we are entirely too protien happy, most of us eat too much. Take a look at our teeth – mostly flat, our stomachs – not as acidic as other carnivores, our digestive system- long, carnivores are short. Yes, if we were out in the wild we would eat meat – when we caught it – we wouldn't be eating it breakfast lunch and dinner.
Notacow, uh huh. I have training in biology. Yes, we need meat.
We do not "NEED" plants either. We need energy, vitamins, minerals.. etc.
Maybe we should find a way to perform photosynthesis without the use of plants so that we don't have to kill those poor defenseless plants.
"Take a look at our teeth – mostly flat, our stomachs – not as acidic as other carnivores, our digestive system- long, carnivores are short. "
MOSTLY flat, not all flat.. because we eat both Plants AND animals. Not AS acidic as "CARNIVORES".. cause we eat both plants AND animals. Omnivore means in both, so we would have traits of BOTH carnivores AND herbivores. Just because you pick out some traits that we have in common with an herbivore does not make us herbivores.
We are Omnivores. Because, we eat plants and animals.. it doesn't matter how our digestive system works or whether we are similar to a lion or a cow.. Its fact, humans eat plants and animals and have a body that is designed to digest BOTH.
OK Melissa, I've read enough of your postings and I must say you are lower life form. When will your get it through your Neanderthal head that you DON"T NEED to eat meat. You WANT to eat meat. And as long as you accept that you are a barbaric hedonistic glutton, I don't care if you eat meat or not. Actually, I do because under our new healthcare plan, conscientious, ethical people like vegetarians have to subsidize the cost of your impending heart attack.
I don't mean to generalize about all meat eaters – especially the ones that have some sense of ethics about the slaughter process (though this is highly hypocritical too). I'm focusing on Melissa in this response.
Let me put this in the simplest terms I can for Melissa's sake.
You have a choice – you choose TO kill.
Vegetarians have a choice – they choose NOT to kill.
That sums it up.
the tide is turning and let the death knell toll for factory farms and inhumane treatment of animals. after all, if we can't take care of our animals (even our food sourced animals) then how can we take care of each other? Think about the yourng child who is given a puppy, it's a "test" of sorts, "if little johnny can take care of puppy, then he can be more able to take care of himself "
Wildon et al (Nature, 1992, 360, 62–65). ..."plants can "feel pain, understand affection etc," from the analysis of the nature of variation of the cell membrane potential of plants, under different circumstances. According to him a plant treated with care and affection gives out a different vibration compared to a plant subjected to torture.
So – seems like harvesting plants can be considered cruel as well...
what to do.. what to do.... ?????
We starve. Or make rock soup. Is it ok to eat rocks?
http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming_pigs.asp
humans are a pack of mass murdering immoral cretin. no wonder most of us know only violence sorry pain and fear for the most part.
Speak for yourself. Going veg seems to have made you a bit grumpy?
I'm going to have a salad tonight... thanks CNN.
This is a moving piece, both deeply introspective and forthright. My only argument is with the following line: "In a matter of minutes, the creatures that had been Porky and Bess, snuffling in the mud just that morning, became a commodity." While it is true that these animals had been suddenly transformed into inert husks, having left their personhood behind, it is an overstatement, and lightly sensationalistic, to say they had become "commodities." Their slaughter was honorably and respectfully done by the man who had been their animal husband, the one who had assumed responsibility for both their lives and their deaths. He, and indeed everyone present, would likely readily acknowledge that the two dead creatures now lying in the yard were not mere material products of an agricultural process. They were beings who had had names, thoughts, feelings, lives; beings who were to be accorded due respect not just until the bittersweet end, but beyond it, too.
Say what?
Well said.
I think you are giving the hogs a bit too much credit. This isn't CHARLOTTE'S WEB, but reality. There isn't much on a pig's mind; they don't look forward in hope or backwards in regret. They don't have complicated thoughts or favorite toys or really much personality, and they roll around in crap.
Bubba you must not have ever been on a farm. Because I am a farm girl and we raise hogs and I can tell you that they are really smart smarter than a dog and they have personalities and feelings. I raised hogs for 4H and got to know them real well and I still eat them but I like them and know that they want to live just like we do. I still eat them and love jitrnice and sultze and other stuff made from hogs but I'm not going to say they don't have intelligence and feelings just to make me feel better or less guilty for eating them. Which is like what southerners did to slaves saying slaves weren't as smart or had feelings like whites just to make themselves feel less guilty for beating them and splitting up their families. Just like eating meat owning slaves was necessary back then because southerners economy was really backward but they don't have to make up things just to make themselves feel better about it.
If they were smart, wouldn't the pigs rise up against their evil persecutors and murder their opporessors? Oh wait, no. They can't even find the open gate 75% of the time. Trust me, I grew up with hogs.
Why don't they rise up against their oppressors? Are you talking about slaves or hogs? Well slaves didn't and the majority of Americans are not rising up against the government which is oppressing us with things like Obamacare and bailouts so why should we expect pigs to? You're kind of proof of what I was saying about people needing to make others more stupid or without feelings just to feel better about yourself eating or enslaving them.
If you can't kill it yourself, don't eat it. If you can't take the guilt of watching a living, breathing, thinking, life form dying at your own hands, then you shouldn't expect others to do the killing for you. The article should have also mentioned the unsustainability of raising and eating livestock.
Yep, thousands of years of unsustainable raising and consuming livestock supports your argument.
Steve, you should read about the population growth that has taken place over the last several thousands of years. Actually, just looking at the last couple hundred and the advent of fast food would give you an idea of why meat production is unsustainable. We have had to manipulate nature, disregard human and animal rights, and destroy global food markets to keep up with the gluttonous demand.
In regards to your ability to kill an animal without having any remorse, you are in the vast minority with just the taking of lie issue. If people realized the true, larger consequences of their actions, nobody with a conscious would be able to eat meat without remorse.
Oh, I CAN and have killed an animal for meat.
I also recommend inter-species sexual relations as a means to be more in touch with nature.
I prefer donkeys....
I'm kinda repeating myself but I'm a farm girl majoring in ag at UND and am going to farm with my fiance once we're married and we'll raise cattle but when I think about how much corn and milo goes into feeding a beef steer not to mention soybeans which is a more direct comparison I understand the aspects of logical74. History of Agriculture points out that humans for most of human history mostly ate grains especially wheat and legumes which the Bible calls pulses and only in the last 100 years did humans eat lots of meat. I'm like Sarah Palin on this when she tells vegetarians that Bambi is dinner but even though she's a strong meat eater, hunter, and commercial fisherman but she's not talking about the sustainability aspect just that in some places like the Artic people can't grow soybeans and have to eat animals. Just water usage for irrigation alone for feed grains for animals not just cattle but pigs chickens even catfish is way more wasteful because so much of the calories and protein from the grains are lost instead of feeding it to humans directly. Not that I'm going to quit eating meat in fact I'm going to meat my fiance for a Whopper at noon and probably will the rest of my life.
Jennifer, I am sure you know this already, but cows are ruminants, which means eating anything but grasses is unnatural for them. The fact that we feed them corn is just an example of the manipulation of nature and global/domestic food markets I mentioned. Although, some plant grow well in the Arctic, you are right that they couldn't grow enough vegetables to survive. However, this is an issue of survival that affects a very small portion of the world's population. Most people do not have to kill an animal to eat and would feel bad if they did, but for some reason, do not have a problem with other people doing it for them even if its just for the sake of eating a whopper.
Yes, I know a lot about cattle since we raise them at home and I'm an ag major. Grain was just a more efficient feed in big confinement operations but cattle should be grazed. Although grazing gets them into trouble sometimes too like when they bloat on too much clover which happens sometimes when clover takes over after drought and overgrazing. Last week we had to vent a cow which is to say to stick a heavy gauge needle into her second stomach to relieve the bloat. I guess which is just like people who eat too much ice cream or too much meat. We skipped BK for lunch and got a cheese original at Shlotsky's instead. I couldn't be a vegetarian but I admire people who can and like that they get me to thinking even though the PETA video that I saw really put me off my feed so to say. I still think that some people can eat meat but maybe just less of it and not be so mean or inhumane about it.
And I quote from the classic flick Fern Gully "Can't you feel it's pain?" ... Talking about a tree of course. Poor thing, his feelings were hurt.
If one is going to eat meat, the methods described in the article are probably the best to follow. It is interesting that humans are omnivorous. Unlike certain animals that can consume only meat or only vegetables or only insects, we have a choice. This choice we must make doesn't just exist with which foods to we choose to eat. So much of our lives is a series of choices. Some animals are "hardwired" to only eat eucalyptus or to only burrow in certain trees, etc. No choice exists – this is it period. This is where life gets interesting and why so much of our great literature centers around a choice(s) that are made (good or bad). [This is not suggesting that we are the only species that has to make choices; we just have a lot of them to make.]
Decisions of slaughter are only part of the ethical picture though. Step back to life-of-the-animal conditions and then look at environmental impact. The factory farms that provide probably 99% of pork to US consumers create miserable living conditions for the animals and the effects of sewage runoff are extreme. These farms often ruin communities in North Carolina and other areas of the country with a foul stench that can be smelled miles away. Then there are the miserable conditions for slaughterhouse workers and skirting of OSHA and FDA guidelines . . . oil consumed in transportation . . . oh and all the corn (and other grains) used to feed these pigs is probably genetically modified and probably requires tons of chemicals (pesticides, etc.) . . . The list goes on and on.
So, the most ethical way of eating a pig would probably be to raise it yourself (or close neighbor), feeding it organic grains you grew yourself (or neighbor). You should only raise a very few pigs to limit environmental damage. And you should probably utilize as many parts of the pig as possible.
While many people might agree with this, you probably aren't going to do it. When you have a guest unexpectedly arrive and you want to entertain with a nice party, it is too easy to run to the grocery store and buy meat that has already been processed and packaged for you. Convenience wins over ethical decisions for most people most of the time. It takes a lot of work to be an ethical meat eater. It is much easier to be vegetarian.
mmmmmm! think I'll get some pork chops out of the freezer to grill tonight!
I've killed lots of animals. I try to dispatch them quickly and would not rejoice in making them "suffer".
Hell, Ive had sex with dead animals......but I didnt kill those ones so no laws were broken there
I'd also like to add that in China and other Asian countries it's a belief that if an animal dies in pain it's meat tastes better, thus the animal often suffers a cruel butchering while it is still alive and aware. Still don't believe me? Look it up yourself. There's tons of videos online too if you want a real eye opener. I am not a PETA follower or a tree hugger or anything like that, but I do believe food animals should be put down humanely. But even here in America animals go thru hell to end up on our dinner plates. But we're just animals/barbarians ourselves with a very thin veil of civilzation we wrap ourselves with and pretend we are so much more higher and above everything else. Humankind has a lot of karma coming. Wait til the electricity goes out and/or the next world war happens... you'll see how fast the TV sheep in this country crumble and the barbarians come out. /end rant... just tired of hypocrisy when it comes to animals.
Ugh. Yes, Korean gourmets will torture a dog with a blowtorch before killing it. They believe that the meat is more flavorful. That's worse than veal pens.
Among us vegetarians there are degrees of dietary holiness:
1. The vegans, who won't even eat honey, are the purest among us.
2. Lacto-ovo-vegetarians like me eat plant material, dairy products, and eggs. We are scorned by vegans.
3. Some people eat a lacto-ovo-vegetarian diet plus fish. They are surely going to spend at least fifty years in purgatory.
4. Some people say, "I hardly ever eat meat. I'm practically a vegetarian." A survey found that 65% of the people who called themselves vegetarian had actually eaten meat on the day they were surveyed. They are like Christians who never go to church or pray.
Among meat eaters, this list ranks them in order of holiness:
1. Eat fish only.
2. Eat fish and poultry only
3. Eat fish, poultry, and grazing animals like cattle, goats, buffalo, etc. These people will spend at least 1,000 years in purgatory.
4. Eat pigs, dogs, and other omnivores (5,000 years in purgatory)
5. Eat veal (100,000 years in purgatory)
6. Eat wild game (straight to hell)
Relax, there is no purgatory, or at list the purgatory existence is an unproven hypothesis. I agree with you that reliance on wild animals as a meat sourse is unethical. I am not a vegetarian.
The best response I can come up with to that post is to quote Gozer from Ghostbusters:
"Are you a God?"
Because you seem to think you are. I haven't seen many people anyone rise to the level of self-righteousness that you have reached here.
Interesting. It's a well established fact that when an animal is stressed, the meat has a taste that is a bit off. For pork, it's dry.
So, rapid slaughter makes a LOT of sense.
There has been considerable debate against religious slaughter (kosher or halal), while the studies using EEG readings are in favor of simply cutting the throat and major arteries to the brain, there are those who ignore the science and insist otherwise, making the claim that the animal is in pain and the slaughter is inhumane. Apparently, they KNOW more than an EEG measuring brain activity. Of course, those are the same folks that insist that the moon landing was faked...
This is a disgusting article.
Oh & to Ponder This: Same goes for meat eaters, regarding the workers that obtain possibly YOUR food. If you are so worried about the workers who are picking vegetables, try eating local. And before you start getting at vegetarians about their food and the conditions of the workers – I surely doubt that every single one of your possessions, including the clothes on your back, were made in buildings where the conditions are just fabulous and the workers are paid top dollars.
Right, so let's do the right thing and starve naked? You go first and let us know how it works. Meanwhile, I think I'll have the bacon burger for lunch today.
and dont forget to stick a carrot deep inside me
LIAR.... LIKE SOOOOOO MANY
"many offal eaters, the enjoyment thereof is a sign of respect to the animal from which they came."
Would it negate any ill feelings you may have towards me if I slaughtered your mother or kids when I ate them? How can the arrogance of a human utter such filth from ones mouth? Why not? The same filthy hypocritic mouth that would devour an animal could have the same filthy lies and lack of integrity flow from the same hole.
I give the writer credit for witnessing the process of slaughter that she feeds herself and family with but it is of complete human ignorance, waste, and irresponsibility that one would consume animals. Havent we destroyed enough as a species? Honestly, would all that has died and will die in the Gulf have happened without us? IMMENSE death in that body of water for our lifetime PLUS. What about the over 1 billion animals we raise in holocaust like conditions and slaughter while we waste over HALF of that meat in the US alone. How about all the countless trillions of pounds of grain we waste to feed these animals when we can eat it ourselves( 17lbs of grain per lb of meat, 1500 gallons of water per lb of meat, 75% of our antibiotics and hormones go into the animals that are consumed, and THE LARGEST POLLUTING INDUSTRY ON THE PLANET).... It is shameful that we havent evolved more responsibly. Ever hear of a person dying from eating too much broccoli? What about pig....cow....etc.... IT is shameful... Kosher=BS, Free Range= BS.. Dont trust me.. just look into it.. Do your homework.. be responsible for your actions and those that we teach our children...
Interesting article and moves me more toward eating meat sparingly and from more humane sources. Both practices would be healthier and easier on the environment.
There is no such think as an "ethical" or "humane" murder and taking the life of another sentient being for any reason other than say, euthanasia for a sick and suffering being, is murder. There is no justification for killing for human consumption when there are plenty of alternatives. Don't fool yourself by thinking you killed them in a kind way. They did not want to die, all beings love life and all fear death. Your greed and hunger for blood and flesh is no excuse for murder.
Plants don't want to die either. Just so you are aware. Murder of plants is ok though? Isn't that life? Is it any less important because it doesn't move as fast? I guess its only ok to kill the life on the planet that doesn't APPEAR to be alive, because it doesn't move very fast.
Plants were not conceived in a womb, nor do they have central nervous systems. This argument of yours is old and tired.
Wow, have a hissy, dude.
there is this awful misconception that meat is unhealthy and that people who eat it are overweight and much less healthy compared to vegetarians. have you ever seen a fat vegetarian? i know plenty! have you ever seen a fit, healthy meat eater? i'm one of them! meat is very healthy for you in moderation and is a part of a well balanced diet. and what's wrong in eating food that tastes good? some people like tofu, i on the other hand, prefer a juicy steak (or pork chop in this case), with of course an array of vegetables on the side.
I'm a vegetarian myself, but all of us have to acknowledge that humankind could not have developed our huge brains if we didn't start eating meat. Our cousins the chimpanzees eat meat, fruits, bugs, and vegetables, just like we do. Meat is a source of highly concentrated nourishment. You can't run a big brain like ours without very dense foods.
Fortunately for me, there are a lot of sources of dense nourishment in our society so I have the luxury of avoiding meat. There are lots of fat vegetarians. Beer is a vegetable. Chocolate is a vegetable. Bread and margarine are vegetables. There is a lot of fattening vegetarian food. This is not true for the natural world. In the natural world, you have to eat a lot of raw fruit, leaves, and roots to get many calories.
yeast do not come from the kindom plantae
It's perfectly fine to LOVE meat...I too LOVE the taste of meat. I don't however LOVE the hormones and other chemicals they load into the animals. They are soo manipulated to produce more faster is festering conditions, you would hardly recognize them as the animals in your imagination. Some are so top heavy, they can't walk. They have beaks and toes removed, and are kept in such cramped facilities, that some literally go insane. eating chemical for the sake of a chicken in every pot is not healthy. If you gave every american a bottle of the chemicals and drugs the put in our animal products and told parents to give it to their kids to drink they would never, but don't bother to check up on and demand more from our large factory farmers.
Join the movement to eat local! Not only do you become more educated about where your food comes from and how it was riased, but you are suppoting your local economy! Find a farmer near you and frequent your local Farmers Market, for both meat and veggies.
would you like some tube steak tonight?
I agree with Eat Local. I know where my beef, pork, chicken comes from - no hormones and only necessary medication (i.e., keeps them from getting things like milk fever). I know who grew my veggies. All the additives (chemical and "other") make the food not taste like food anymore.
My favorite is cock meat burritos.
Pigs are sensitive, inquisitve and intelligent (more so than dogs) animals. They and billions of other animals are cruelly raised and killed every year just because humans like the way they taste. Humans = might makes right. Meat is murder.
Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought).
I agree – pigs are indeed very smart. I think being aware – and maybe even working to improve the conditions found in the meat industry is commendable.
But I think calling the slaughter of livestock for meat MURDER just makes it easier for the meat eaters amongst us to consider PETA and vegans a "bit out of touch" i.e. "kooks".
Just my opinion...
Disclosure: I'm a long time vegetarian. My choice is my choice, but I applaud these farmers and people who try to make the process that will never, ever, stop (if PETA thinks otherwise, it's because they're insane), a little more humane. How can you criticize giving an animal a good life, then trying to minimize the pain of its death? A lot of humans don't get that. Factory farming and slaughter is truly horrific (read Foer's Eating Animals for a nightmarish look). In that process, the animals are simply commodities their entire life, instead of just after death. This is a matter of respect, with an eye on reality. Which do you think is better?
Thank you for this post. I am glad to see there are people in there that realize that both sides of this argument are right. A healthier, happier world will come from a combination of our ideals. It's destruction will come from the polarization and radicalization of them.
Thank you, w1919, for making a good, balanced comment.
Interesting – I knew a vegan who had to keep upping her dosage of Prozac... until one day a Dr suggested she add red meat to her diet. Withing the year, the addition of about a pound of beef to her diet allowed her to substantially reduce her daily requirement of Prozac. She seems much more stable and balanced. I'm convinced that no red meat = brain chemical imbalaces. Not as much as the typical American diet.. but certainly – we've evolved to required what is in meat to be healthy. As quick look at our teeth pretty much shows that we're ominvores. The true vegetarians that I've met never seem to be healthy or mentally well balanced.
Just my opinion.
Oh – and I've raised pigs for food – but also have a mini pot belly in the house as a pet. The livestock didn't have names, although they were taken care of and treated well. Not that much of a mental feat to separate the roles of each animal.
she just needed cock meat
I have no problem with taking an animal for food if done in a reasonably humane way. Plus, i prefer not to have the testosterone levels of a prepubescent girl like vegetarian men. I do however have great issue with the author providing coyote bait to a person. Predator hunting is disgusting as is killing an animal solely for its fur.
The reason you bait them is to be as human as possible in killing them. Coyotes routinely kill and eat domesticated pets, farm animals,carry diseases etc. Same argument to be made for shooting feral dogs and cats.
How on earth does baiting a coyote make killing it more humane? That is utterly ridiculous. Every mammal in the wild can potentially carry a diesease. Should we wipe them all out? Coyotes and wolfs have actually been decimated by diseases from domestic dogs. There are actually quite effective ways to protect domestic animals from predators that don't entail attempting to wipe them out such as the use of dogs like the great pyrennes. Shooting them is just cheaper and many inbred morons just get off on killing things.
I do have one thought for the "holier than thou" vegetarians out there (not all of you, but you know who you are). How are you outraged by eating meat but have no problem eating vegetables that are picked by migrant workers who are paid little-to-nothing and housed in places no better than those where many animals are kept? Just a thought to stir the pot.
One more thing. Everyone should know where their food comes from and how it gets to them. If you don't know, educate yourself. You'll probably be healthier in the long run.
You have a good point regarding illegal immigrants and migrant workers being used to pick vegetables for almost no money. But many of these same workers are also sent to the slaughterhouses to process the meat there as well. Personally, I get the majority of my vegetables from my CSA share (Community Supported Agriculture) and my local co-op where they have a whole section of locally produced fruits and vegetables.
Are you saying then that I should stop eating vegetables and live off the air? I don't need meat to live but I do need veggies and grains to survive.
That's not a relevant comparison, but you can help to prevent both situations. No animals choose slaughter, yet they all suffer the consequences of that. If that's an important issue to you, you can choose to not eat meat. Many illegal aliens and immigrants do personally choose low wages (they can afford those because their cost-of-living is much lower than that of Americans, as they don't pay income taxes and most of their housing/food/education/medical care is provided for them by U.S. citizens). The Americans who can't find work or affordable housing suffer from their choices. If that issue is important to you, you can work to have laws against illegal immigration enforced. You can make your own personal choices, but it's ridiculous to slam vegetarians for the illegal actions of some farmers and their employees.
There's a very big difference between 'choosing' low wages and 'accepting' low wages. If presented with the opportunity, no one would accept the same work for less pay. I think this is a very relevant point. If I had the land, I'd plant my own vegetation. I'm certainly willing to do my own slaughtering.
This is a very thought provoking article. Most Americans are so far removed from the process of factory farming, and how it is that they have meat on their table. They go to their local grocery. That is where meat comes from, right? Factory farming is an UGLY business, and keeping their methods secret is of utmost importance. Unlike the farm described in the article, most farms provide a miserable and deplorable environment to raise the creatures we eat. They load them with toxic levels of chemicals and then we feed them to our children and wonder why are kids so fat? Why are little girls menstruating so early. Not to mention the environmental effects, which is far worse then all the vehicles, boats planes etc., COMBINED! I am not suggesting anyone become a vegetarian, what I am suggesting is more exposure ton the ills of factory farming and more support to local farms who raise their animals in a healthy loving environment with the respect they deserve. Anyone interested please read the wonderful book "eating animals".
Parents actually sending their kids outside to play instead of letting them park their fat asses in front of the TV all day might be a solution to childhood obesity. Blaming meat for giant kids is a poor excuse for bad parenting.
Why is this story news? It's a pig for crying out loud. They're meant to be eaten, if not by us then by some other predator because that's the way of the world. And because they're pigs, by definition that means it has no reason or emotion. And in case you're of the naive sort, there is no "humane" way of killing. Killing is killing... period. We don't eat our pets because in our heads (not their heads, our heads) they are family members. But guess what, pets are still animals and cannot reason nor do they have emotions. I don't need to visit a damn farm. Pass me a burger.
You are either the stupidest person on this board or the smartest flame troll.
So when my dogs celebrate my return home at the end of the day they are not displaying emotions? And when a dog fights a threat to protect his human companions it's not because he sees them as his pack, ie family? And i hate to burst your bubble but there is conclusive evidence that dogs are capable of some degree of reason which may be more than we can say for you.
And if your family dog reasons that it's necessary, it will attack you. A dog is a hunter. Don't ever forget that. Just because you feed it and take it outside for its dirty business, don't believe that your Lab loses the will or instinct to kill for food. All domesticated animals, be they pigs, cows, dogs, or sheep, have the capacity and programming for aggression.
Wow cowgirl....blows me away that you hit the "post" button after typing that, thinking that you just showed everyone up. That's the dumbest comment ever. Ever. You were raised where?????
I'm going to stop short of calling this all wrong. While I'm not sure that animals like dogs actually have emotions, I do observe social behaviors that are unmistakable to other social animals (like humans). We can easily interpret threats, excitement, and playfulness from dogs. These are things that are undeniable. Do they feel emotions like we do? I don't know. But a pool that is an inch deep and has an inch of water in it is still a full pool. I believe that dogs feel and express 'emotion' to the fullest extent possible.
On the other issue, well, I have to agree. A cow in the wild would end up as a really big meal for wolves. There are a very limited number of animals in the world, humans being among them, that die of old age. The rest end up as a meal for something bigger or smarter. However you may feel about slaughter houses, or the pigs in this article, those animals didn't have to live with the daily concern of being attacked every time they dipped their head for a drink of water.
A fellow human is far more likely to reason it necessary to attack me than my dogs. The only case in which my dogs would display agression to me is if i gave them a valid reason by seriously hurting them. I can't say the same for other people.
cow girl......animals may not have the same complexity of emotions we have but they certainly so have emotions. Most animals don't like to go to the vet because they associate the building and people with painful memories and so they are afraid. Fear is an emotion. Animals feel and if you think they don't then you are a fool.
I have been a vegetarian for the past seven years and I'm very proud of that! I never preach to meat eaters but they way they do slaughter animals is very wrong. The animal abuse on dairy farms is horrible! I always find it very sad that when people are vegetarian or vegan for years because of animal rights and then wake up one day just to start eating meat again!
I grew up on a farm. We slaughtered animals yearly for our own consumption. Having been raised on a farm, I guess I'm a bit less sentimental about it all. It was a fact of life. These are animals, mostly meant to provide protein for those higher up the food chain. We never wasted anything. And I became the only kid in my class that would eat (and actually love) liver. :) The key is not to waste - do you really need a steak or pork chop as big as your head? The real waste is people starving.
The method described in the article is the most humane way. There's no "stunning", no electrocution, and no paralytics necessary if the slaughter is done right , so no, I'm not advocating for the "slaughterhouse" method. Eat what you kill, if you have extra, share with those who are in need.
I have killed animals – and its irrefutable fact that they can feel pain and fear.
Im currently a hunter and I grew up on a farm where we slaughtered pigs.
I doubt that most animal have complex emotions tied to ideas like people do. But they can clearly feel pain and fear. They have the same physical manifestation of fear and pain that people do and they are precipitated by the same chemical response. That is out right proof.
This said its disturbing that their is such a disconnect between reality and so much of the American populous. Almost all of us eat meat yet most dont understand the realities out at all. So they dont come to terms with it.
Also if you want to learn about animal slaughter go to a real farm where where they actually do this as a way of life not some hippy joint that sees it as a rare traumatic event. Some place where they know better than to give pigs names.
Wow. I found this article utterly disturbing. Whoever this writer is must have a very difficult time sleeping at night. To eat the innards of a pig and "raise a nod upward" in its honor? Are you sick? I vote yes. I'm not a militant vegetarian or anything and I found the author quite hypocritical. Pigs are more intelligent than dogs, yet we slaughter and eat them with no afterthoughts. Instead of telling yourself you are some kind of 'better person' because you watched the pig get slaughtered and then ate it is pure lunacy. I think that makes you even worse than those that are able to convince themselves that slaughter is painless for animals and then eat meat. You knew better......your gluttony just made you not care. Try evolving past your gut and taste buds and use your brain.
Right on!
RIGHT ON!!!!!!!!
I don't recommend killing animals but I do believe that the essence of the animal cannot be killed. It simply reverts back to its original form (as energy) and continues its evolution (just as we humans do). This doesn't justify killing, but it tempers my understanding of issues such as eating meat or abortion.
That is a comforting fantasy. Freud said that religion is a way of solving problems in fantasy because they cannot be solved in reality. I think dead pigs are dead.
It makes me furious how people bring up dogs as food. It's not enough that we slaughter pigs, cows etc... Dogs are born wanting nothing more than to please us. All dogs are companion animals. I'm a vegan and against the murder of any animal for food but believe slaughter houses have a long way to go before they are humane. All animals with a brain feel pain. http://www.earthlings.com/
Which is why these pigs were shot in the head to stop conscious brain function. It leaves the brain stem functional, which keeps the heart beating and facilitates draining the animal. But the sensory inputs have all been shut down and the pig feels nothing.
Seems to me what we're trying to define as 'humane' is what we as humans feel the least guilty about. I bow hunt and I can tell you that it is not as quick of a death as rifle hunting. Hearing a deer 'crash' is troubling because you know in your soul that it's a blind dash for self preservation. A gun is a catastrophic blow from which the deer rarely takes more than a few steps before collapsing. Even with a double lung punch from a broad head, that animal is going to die from suffocation and internal bleeding. I have to believe it's painful.
But the reason I bow hunt is that I can't shoot the animal from 50 yards. I don't even feel comfortable taking a shot from more than 20 yards. But at that range, the deer can see me too. I gave him/her all the chance I could to see me and run. And they're surprisingly good at it.
Thanks for posting the Earthlings link. The MOST profound documentary I have viewed. So much that I ordered the bumper sticker off their website and have it on my car. For the animals Elle :)
I don't eat meat and haven't eaten meat for 35 years precisely because of the conditions in which food animals are raised and slaughtered. I have seen video of those conditions and I found myself recalling those videos when I ate meat. So I gave it up and I think I'm healthier as a result.
However I do take medicine which was surely tested on animals in horrible ways, such as deliberately overdosing them, etc. I have had surgery performed by surgeons who surely practiced on animals before being trusted to cut human flesh. There are pigs who are kept for trainee surgeons to practice removing bullets from. Those pigs are shot and operated on, shot and operated on, shot and operated on, shot and operated on until the pig dies from a gunshot wound or from a clumsy surgical intern's mistake.
While I do feel bad about how research animals are treated, I find myself unwilling to die to avoid them. It troubles me that there are people walking among us who make a living dropping bleach in rabbit's eyes and shooting pigs over and over and over. I wonder what kind of person can endure such a job? However, the old saying is "Those who eat meat cannot scorn the butcher." Our society and all of us in it are neck deep in the blood of the animals we kill.
Me. I do it. And..you're welcome. BTW...you're radicalization of what goes on in the research industry borders on propaganda. As someone stated earlier, pick up a book. I recommend books NOT published by PETA (whose founder, Ingrid Newkirk is an insulin-dependent diabetic FYI).
Might I suggest "The Guide for the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals", the OLAW "Public Health Service Policy on Humane Care and Use of Laboratory Animals", and of course the good ol' USDA Animal Welfare Act. Make sure you get an updated AWA. Things have come a long way since the original 1964 AWA. Things really got changed in 1985.
i could write a book on the violated ethics in this article alone, yet very very few people would understand. and yes, i eat meat...again, you wouldn't understand. humanity has failed. enough said.
I was a vegetarian for twenty years. Actually a vegetarian cook, so I know my nutrition. I was very sickly until fifteen years ago resumed red-meat based diet. I still prefer vegetarian food. To all you vegetarians out there, GOOD FOR YOU! But not for everybody.
That is why Kosher animals are "slaughtered" humanely. Kosher animals have the main veins in their neck all on one side, so when the neck is slit, it is instant death. All other animals have veins on both sides, therfore slitting only one at a time.
This is simply a lie. It is not humane. The animal simply dies a more slow and more painful death. Pick up a book.
Please reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_slaughter
that's the same theory Hitler had killing the jews!
LOL a Kosher Holocaust
oldmanriver you are a nasty human being.
You are deluded if you belive that kosher animals really have such fundamentally different biology as that. SCIENCE FAIL.
having your main viens and arteries cut open is not instant death......its death in a few minutes......wait for iiiiiit........wait for iiiiittt......almost there..........just a few more seconds......aaaaaalmost there.......wait for iiiiiit
I raise pigs, turkeys and chickens (for meat and eggs). The pigs I raise in wooded area about half and acre in size, about 6 pigs in each half acre. I do my very best to give them the best life with only one bad day. Why? because I truly care about them, I care about their well being. Do I kill them (pigs)? Do I watch it? No. The hardest day for me is the day I load them up but I do it knowing the life they have had,rooting in the trees, in the sun, in the mud is far far better then pigs that are raised in the factory farm setting. Personal opinion: I wouldn't buy a puppy from a puppy mill how could I feed my family pork raised in worse conditions?
Thanks for listening!
Mmm, yummy bacon.
and cock
In 1989 I stopped eating beef and pork because I realized society wanted me to eat it, and not that I enjoyed eating it. All those Oscar Meyer commercials may sound happy, but nothing about animal slaughter is entertaining. I do not miss eating red meat, and reading this article simply reinforces my decision. I am saddened by Porky and Bess' slaughter.
People do not understand about the commercialization of these food industries pushing meat products on the American society. It is cheaper to buy hamburgers than fresh vegetables.
This is the main reason as the development of giant modern day slaughter houses, Americans became heavier and unhealthier (dietary illnesses).
Americans are fat because its cheaper to buy a chemical laden and taste engineered hamburger than a fresh organic apple.
Thomas,
I totally agree with you that commercialization is what is ruining our planet. Gluttony and Excess. Bigger Steaks to fit out Bigger Plates. More More More! Eat Eat Eat. Giant meat factories are not needed. Growth Hormones are insane.
My issue is with your (and other vegetarians) is the debate the humans can survive off of alternatives and only plant based products. That may be so, scientifically. But, on a grand skill, disrupting the food chain will mean the end of the planet. Animals will over produce (like we have). Crops will be in short supply because of our population size as well as the abundance of animal life. The only way your theory will work..is if you convince the planet that half of our population needs to go away. And I'm sure that genocide and holocaust would taste very hypocritical rolling out of your lips...
There are two kinds of people in this world....people that eat their pets and people that dont. I grew up on a farm where there were many meals made from animals that we named and raised ourselves. Its the circle of life. The first time I saw a steer butchered was a steer that my brothers and I had bottle fed and raised from an infant. His name was guzzler. I was 5 or 6 and dad wanted to make sure we knew were our food came from. The day after guzzler was slaughtered, dad paid us $1000. 00 for him. We felt pretty good after that.
How much for your daughter?
My story and the responses to it just go to show how far removed from reality most people are. Without people like me to do all your dirty work you wouldnt be able to get by. Want to know how many animals are killed from harvesting wheat and vegitables. Its literally a slaughter. I remember plowing fields and the hawks and buzzards following the tractor to take advantage of the animals that I killed. Most people have no idea what they are talking about so they respond very childishly, good luck in the future, hope you never have to feed yourself.
However, I forgot to mention that I lost my virginity to that steer.
Ill never forget that day when I took my share of the money and bought me a female (this time) goat.
Oh the fun we had milking eachother..... Mom would never understand but dad did!
Actually I invested that money into CD's which at the time in the early 80s were making about 15% interest. Money I got for raising animals for food put me through college. I paid for every bit of my own college. i would never have been able to do it without the help of my cattle.
And I later found out why dad was so persistent sending Guzzler to the slaughterhouse. On his deathbed he told us how sorry he was killing our pet but after seeing ma mounted by Guzzler, he knew it was him or the steer.
Ma cried that day.
LOL why is it that farmers are always accused of having sex with animals yet urban dwellers have their cats and dogs in the house with them? Who has more opportunity?
Getting a little carried away aren't we?
You can't argue with someone on the merits of what they say, so you come up with these snide, moronic, childish little fantasies. Says more about you than him I think.
didn't you already tell this story?
Not very nice. So much for loyalty.
I understand people's aversion to the eating of meat, but do not understand their criticisms. There are people starving in this world. There are areas of drought all over the globe. The Earth's population is 7 billion strong. I'm not sure about where everyone else lives, but urban sprawl is taking up acres and acres of land each year here in MD. So, where exactly is mankind supposed to plant all of these "alternatives" to animal byproducts? Is there somewhere that I'm unaware of that we can plant enough beans and nuts to meet the protein needs of 7 BILLION people? If so, make sure you factor in the growing populations of animals that we are no longer eating..and the growing populations of predatory animals that will then be eating the abundance of prey animals.
Honestly, and this is going to get me flack both sides of the aisle, but the debate shouldn't be Omnivores vs. Herbivores. Those that eat meat are not the obstacle to healthy, happy, cohesive planet. We are the ones that keep it in balance. And honestly, most of us share the same dream as the Herbivores. We want green fields, and less slaughter as well. We don't NEED to have steak with every meal. No, the issue is with EVERYONE that is overpopulating our planet. Everyone who is living in EXCESS. Everyone that increases demand and threatens supply. We eat more and more and more. We breed when orphanages are full. We drive $30,000 cars that do the same job as $12,000..only they ensure that $18,000 ISN'T going to plant crops and help the world. It's not Meat Eaters that are killing this planet. It's all eaters...
I agree that there's obscene waste & consumption. The argument that meat is needed to feed the world is a fallacy however as meat production typically takes up more resources including grain, corn, beans but also water & energy. RIce & beans will feed more of the world,not burgers.
Again, I will agree AND disagree. I think the route to a better, healthier planet is by a partnership of the opposing ideas in this forum rather than deeply drawn battle line. More crops and less factory processes meat is where we need to head. But an elimination of animal byproducts is a break from the cycle of life. The food chain. I believe that greed and gluttony, rather than Nature, need to be removed from the equation.
I don't argue that meat is needed to feed the world. I argue that the eating of meat is needed to maintain the ecosystem. It's just lucky for us that it also provides nutrition. Isn't it funny how everything serves a purpose. Whether you believe in God or in Nature...that fact always seems to ring true.
As a meat-loving farm girl, I read about this at college and am worried about the sustainable aspects of meat eating because of the huge amount of land and water used to grow grains for meat compared to the small amount if everyone was vegetarian. It goes against my family's and my career but it makes sense maybe not so extreme but maybe to eat less meat and graze cattle instead of grow feed grains and instead grow more soybeans etc.
When I was an animal science student at the University of Kentucky, we went to a slaughterhouse. The professor told us point blank: if you can't handle what happens there, you don't belong in this program. Not a "humane" slaughter but a commercial one. If you eat meat from the grocery, you owe yourself a trip to a commercial slaughterhouse. Better yet, visit a livestock auction such as Sugar Creek and listen to the cries of the old, used-up dairy cows. Crippled, udders dragging. That's where your burgers come from, my friends. Elderly, crippled, unhappy dairy cows. Visit Sugar Creek. I dare you.
Where is "Sugar Creek?" What nation, state, county?
"If I couldn't go and be courageous enough to see an animal I'd known alive, dead and turned into food, I had no right to keep on writing about it – or perhaps even eating it."
You have no RIGHT eat it regardless of whether or not you're such an empathetic failure that you were not more profoundly moved by what you witnessed. Probably all you achieved in this was thicker skin. Great. Don't kid yourself with the notion of "ethical slaughter"–an obvious oxymoron.
There are two kinds of people in this world....people that eat their pets and people that dont. I grew up on a farm where there were many meals made from animals that we named and raised ourselves. Its the circle of life. The first time I saw a steer butchered was a steer that my brothers and I had bottle fed and raised from an infant. His name was guzzler. I was 5 or 6 and dad wanted to make sure we knew were our food came from. The day after guzzler was slaughtered, dad paid us $1000. 00 for him. We felt pretty good after that.
"The day after guzzler was slaughtered, dad paid us $1000. 00 for him. We felt pretty good after that."
$1000. Is that all it took to purchase your compassion? The price of life is shockingly cheap.
We still felt bad about the death of something that we cared about but when it all comes down to it, it was a business that supported our family. Thats what my father wanted us to learn. We still feel bad about animals that we have grown close to that are shipped to be butchered but thats life on the farm. I felt the same way when we sold an old tractor that I had learned how to drive on.
I have seen the price of a 260 # pig range from $24-$180. It all depends on what you think is cheap. I have seen piglets die as they are being eaten by another sow. Their life was worth absolutely nothing.
Pigs have no practical use on a farm except to be eaten but he llama is "comic relief" and gets its own grooming sessions because it's pelt gets matted? The author is an avid animal lover and yet she is an ex-vegetarian who now watches as pigs are shot in the head, takes pictures while they are rendered and butchered, saws the ears off their dead heads, leaves the entrails for her friend's boyfriend as "coyote bait," calls her "avid hunter" friend to come over and eat massive amounts of meat..... Perhaps the terrible stench she describes is not emanating from the pigs, but from her own bullshit.
Two objections to statements in this article:
When we first helped a neighbor slaughter hogs, he shot them between the eyes with a .22 long rifle as described in this article . It only stunned them – one just stood there and squealed as it was shot four times. We then had to hold them down as someone cut their throats to let them bleed out & die. My father was disgusted. He later studied a hog's skull & the next year, he asked to shoot to the first hog. He placed the muzzle behind the ear and put the round directly into the brain. The hog collapsed instantly, dead before it hit the ground. That worked every time thereafter. I think that "meat sciences professor" needs a remedial course in anatomy and physiology.
Also, hogs are not completely "useless" except for meat. When confined, they're nature's own bushhog and tiller.Our neighbor used to pen them in patches of dense overgrowth. The next year, plant growth, including roots, was gone and the soil ready for a new garden. When a newly dug stock pond wouldn't hold water, old time farmers would pen hogs in the hollow. Depending on the soil composition, the hog's weight & cloven hooves worked to compact the soil as well or better than mechanical devices and the pond would start to filll & hold water.
Next time CNN wants to cover a family farming topic, I'd suggest they go out in the sticks and find an old fella in bib overalls. When the grid collapses, he;ll be the real "professor".
I'm a North Dakota farm girl and we raised hogs and cattle and my father shot them between the eyes with a 30-30 which stunned them like the article says but the neighbor shot his behind the ear but that just paralyzed them and they would still blink and their eyes move. I betcha that your pigs were conscious but just paralyzed. I'd rather not eat any animals but I'm starting to think that I should eat them that are raised in humane conditions aka not crowded in confinement operations or factory farms and trucked 100's of miles to a packing plant etc.
BTW my fiance says he knows that old guy because he's the one who around here says to treat mange with diesel which kills the dog and kill weeds in a fencerow with diesel which makes the soil dead for good. I respect my elders but some of those old guys just think they know when they don't or they just do things instead of studying them to find out the real deal.
I am a chickitarian. I don't eat beef or pork for two reasons: the inhumane treatment of large mammals in commercial slaughterhouses is so distasteful to me that it would ruin any and every meaty meal I could possibly ever have. Second, the carbon footprint of a large mammal is very large. If you have to eat meat, consider being a chickitarian. A free-ranging chicken consumes huge quantities of insects which is free protein!
I have work in the poultry industry. It has helped me become a vegetarian. We produced chickens that would weigh 4 pounds in less than forty days of age. They are kept in houses that allow them one square foot per bird when fully grown. They live and eat their own feces, and the carcasses of those who didn't make it. They are grabbed up by the leg and thrown into a pen, then onto a truck and then to the slaughter house for more bad treatment before they die. Do you know that a gorilla is a strict vegetarian. He can weigh over 500 pounds and that woudl be shear muscle and strength. Eating a chicken is no more ethical or necessary then eating a cow, pig, horse, cat, dog, goat, canary or lizard.
Thank you for that enlightment.
Gorillas are not vegetarians......and the place you worked was a factory farm and yeah...they are pretty nasty places for an animal to grow up in.
When I was growing up we had a place in the country with poultry and rabbits. It was never easy to slaughter a chicken or a rabbit for food. But it makes you appreciate the sacrifice that is made so that you can eat. Some people choose to be vegan. Good for them. I eat meat the way humans and our ancestors have for over a couple of million years. No one should be holier than thou about whether you choose to eat meat. Nothing on the planet is immortal. Everything that lives is consumed by either a predator or insects, worm, and bacteria. Animals in nature don't pass away quietly in a hospice. People who choose to eat meat should take a moment to appreciate that the meal they eat came at the loss of an animal's life.
Well it's not a funny thing to witness the slaughter of a pig. On the other hands, I have seen the killing of the haitian creole pigs by the haitian government under FDA of our country in 1984-85, and now Haiti is importing pigs from USA that are not even healthy as the counterparts and of course cost more to maintain, and the pretext was the creoles can give tetanos and malaria. I feel sorry for that little pig but I have seen the haitian pigs holocaust
Opps soory, bad keyboard many typos-corected things:
While slaughtering an animal may seem "not right" to some, I feel all animals were here for a reason. Some are workers, some are companions, and some are food. That reason is to make sure HUMANS have food. To all you vegetarian preaching people. Glad you choose not to eat meat, that's ok it's your right but please stop telling me what to do. I love all kinds of meat and respect an animal for giving it's life to feed my family. I would never treat a LIVING animal with anything but respect because they can probably feel pain but once they are dead THEY ARE FOOD! I'm not a rabbit that can or will live on green leafy things. Stupid store vegetarian products such as BOCA etc are stupid profit making BS. If you are a true vegetarian then grow your own and stop feeding into the greed of companies that tell you that meat is wrong. PETA is a freakin bunch on low lifes that manipulate what THEY want you to know. PETA-Peaople that Eat and Torture Anyone who will listen! Farmers are not cruel they produce a product for HUMAS! In a sense they are life savers.
Obviously you have no idea of what you are talking about.
As I am not what one would consider a tree-hugging vegetarian. I resisted watching PETA films as I thought of them as crazy hippies.
Try watching the videos, eating healthier and stop saying that vegetarians are telling you what to eat, at least I'm not.
But, if you give it a try like I did the rewards are great.
All I have to say to you is that people can survive on green leafy things, that doesn't mean I am telling you you should, but it is possible. Also, I am vegan, I am not expecting you to go vegan or anything, but if you can go and buy from the companies that tell you that dairy is good for you or meat is necessary to live, then I will continue to buy my food from the store.
While slaughtering an animal may seem "not right" to some, I feel all animals were here for a reason. Some are workers, some are companions, and some are food That reason is to make sure HUMANS have food. To all you vegetarian preaching people. Glad you choose not to eat meat, that's ok it's your right but please stop telling me what to do. I love all kinds of meat and respect an animal for giving it's life to feed my family. I would never treat a LIVING animal with anything but respect because they can probably feel pain but once they are dead THEY ARE FOOD! I'm not a rabbit that can or will live on green leafy things. Stupid store vegetarian products such as BOCA etc are stupid profit making BS. If you are a true vegetarin then grow your own and stop feeding into the greed of companie that tell you that meat is wrong. PETE is a freakin bunch on low lifes that manipulate what THEY want you to know. PETA-Peaople that Eat and Torture Anyone who will listen! Farmers are not cruel they produce a product for HUMAS! In a sense they are life savers.
Humans may be able to survive without eating meat, but it is a shadowy sort of life. Human are omnivorous. We have the vestiges of sharp, meat-tearing canine teeth still in our heads. Our eyes sit on the front of our skull to give us stereoscopic vision with which to hunt our prey. Prey animals have eyes on the sides of their heads to give them a wider view with which to try and spot US!
To say that humans are not meant to eat meat goes against the genetics with which we are made of. Some day, we may not have canines and eyes on the front of our heads, but until that point, food is whatever comes along. Meat, Tofu, Herbs, or grass.
Mind you, to play devil's advocate with myself, if we weren't raising so many meat producing animals worldwide, we would not have to worry raising as much fodder for them, would not have as much animal waste, and would not have the problems that crop up such as Mad Cow, or Trichinosis.
In essence, it may come down to the fact that even though meat tastes good, for the benefit of mankind and for the environment and not so much for the care and safety of animal kind, carnivorous tendencies may have to go the way of the Dodo.
Ravenous, hate to burst your bubble, but you might want to read up on medical research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1312295/pdf/bumc0013-0139.pdf
That document is written both badly and deceptively.
First, he says that "atherosclerosis affects only herbivores." This is an outright lie. Atherosclerosis affects both herbivores and omnivores. The list of omnivores which are affected by this condition includes, but is not limited to, both chickens and chimpanzees.
Then he tries to skirt the omnivore issue by comparing humans to carnivores, not to omnivores or herbivores. Of course, we do not match carnivore traits, because we are not carnivores. We are omnivores.
I could do the same thing to argue that we are carnivores. Compare human biology to an herbivore. Herbivores do not have incisors on their upper jaw. Herbivores do not have the relatively high protein requirements that humans have. Herbivores have some place for fermentation to take place (second stomach, hindgut, etc), which humans do not. Therefore, we must be carnivores, right? Ridiculous.
If you want to be a vegetarian/vegan, or support your choice using actual facts, I am all for that. However, when you lie or twist the truth to try to dupe people into believing that humans are MEANT to be vegetarians/vegans, that is where I draw the line.
It is even worse when a doctor, who should know better, ignores all relevant scientific fact to mislead the public. I'm glad this guy isn't my doctor. Someone who is so professionally unethical as to intentionally mislead the public in this manner, is probably professionally unethical in other ways.
Gorillas have canines and eyes on the front fo their faces, but are vegetarians. Humans have brains which gives us the capacity to understand pain and suffering. Next time visit a slaughterhouse and think to yourself, how you would feel if that was a member of your family being skinned, butchered or boiled alive for the sake of pleasure food.
You are incorrect Bklyn. Gorillas are as all of the great apes are, omnivores. That means they eat both meat and vegetables. If you choose not to believe me, then research it, Google " are GORILLAS omnivores" you will get at least 45,000 results stating that they are OMNIVORES IE EAT MEAT.
Where's the option of "No, I haven't and I couldn't? Because tha's the case for many people as it would be for me. I'd have decided that right away. I'd say that these guys shouldn't be raising pigs for slaughter if they don't want to contemplate and be able to witness it themselves.
And why not kill cats and dogs? Because they're pets and pets shouldn't be slaughtered. Animals who give us unconditional love shouldn't be treated like this. Humans have a respnsibility to pets and they shouldn't be mistreated or used for food. As for food stock, surely a stun gun first would be more humane that a bullet between the eyes.
A stun gun really? I have seen people hit by a stun gun......they are pretty awake immediately after the stun......would you rather the pig not know its throat was slit and then be awake while it bleeds to death? The whole reason behind shooting them is to kill them quickly beause most abatoirs use electricity to kill animals and the stress it causes the animals body to undergo makes the meat taste differently.
higher levels of life eat lower ones to subsist.....i think it's what nature has been doing for millions of years
Do your homework,
Over a little less than a hundred years ago before commercial slaughter houses and farming, most people would only have the chance of eating meat twice or three times a month. It was a luxury item and not a staple like the .99 cent hamburgers of today.
As far as Hunter Gatherers, there was more gathering than hunting with our ancient brethren.
OK, read Little House in the Big Woods if you want the truth about how things were 100 years ago. There is a detailed chapter about how the family raised the pig and split beef with another family. The father also hunted for meat and then preserved it. I think it is safe to assume that meat was on the dinner table more often than a couple of times a month. In addition to that, my grandparents on both sides were farmers (poor farmers). Much like the family in the Little House books, my grandparents raised a couple of pigs and would slaughter them for use all year round. Pigs are great animals because you can eat everything but the oink and they did. They would share their pork with another family in exchange for the beef. They also raised chickens and turkey. My grandfathers supplemented tables with meat that they would hunt. To this day, my grandmothers have recipes for making squirrel stew and other types of stews. I'm 32 years old and we aren't talking about this happening 100 years ago. This happened as late as the 1960s.
I understand people who don't eat meat. They are certainly allowed that choice. It isn't one that I'm prepared to make. A vegetarian friend once asked how I could eat bacon on my potato soup. I responded flippantly, but I stand by the answer. When a pig walks up to me on the street and asks me to stop eating bacon, then I will stop eating it. Until then, I will continue to view pigs, cows, chicken, deer, and various other fowl and mammals as food.
Is that so? Tens to hundreds of million people worldwide don't eat meat and are arguably healthier for it. I would say they are the highest and most humane form of life.
I wonder when humans will evolve from eating meat. There are so many things we look back upon and say "We actually used to do that?" Gladatorial games, slavery, bull fighting (still goes on), etc. Some day, hundreds or thousands of years from now, future generations will look back and think about the barbarians that most of us still are with the same disgust that we look upon our early days.
Eating meat is not necessary, it is a pleasure. There are cultures and religions in the world that have realized this and evolved. Most have not. I hope that each person considers the sheer scope of the brutality that we inflict on animals each and every day. We commit a thousand holocausts day in and day out.
I'm not trying to convert anyone to become a vegetarian. But, at least accept who you are and what you are committing – unnecessary cruelty on a massive scale simply for your pleasure. Where is the "humame" in humanity?
HAHA... Thousands of holocausts a day huh... You are a complete moron!
So your point, other than I am a "moron" is what ??
"I wonder when humans will stop eating meat" and what are you exactly?
Last time I checked, I was human. My point is some of us are more humane than others. Some have evolved beyond barbarism and some will still slaughter unnecessarily.
You're the worst kind of pot-stirrer. How you could even use the word "holocaust" synonymously with meat slaughter in the US is beyond me. Regardless of your religious beliefs (if any), people are still more important than animals.
Really? I know some people that I would put lower on the importance scale than animals. You see, humans are the only animals that have a choice and yet choose to kill unecessarily. And please don't try to bring in the "humans have a soul" nonsense. What kind of "soul' makes us choose killing over letting live? Meat eaters are in it for the pleasure and no amount of ranting is going to change that. End of story.
Uh no, the great empires are nothing to be ashamed of, and I am certainly NOT embarrassed by our history as a species. All you have to do is look at any other species history and development.
The very fact that this is a debate is indicitive of a good thing, you go ahead and convert those that will be converted, in the meantime the pursuit of benevolant dictatorship in favor of animals is self defeating.
Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don't eat filthy animals.
Vincent: Bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.
I have absolutely no problem with slaughtering and eating animals. It's the nature of all living things to kill and consume. Take a walk through the woods and see all of the death and consumption by both the animals and the plants.
Rule number one, don't name your food. Too many Americans have no clue where meat comes from other then the plastic wrapped, water filled and drug enhanced stuff they sell in supermarkets. I've hunted since I was 12, my parents did not hunt, I learned from my friends in rural northern new jersey in the 60's and taught my kids and city transplant neighbors to rural Pa where I have had a home for the past 25 years. Personally I never liked butchering, too much work but if I have the time will do it unless I can come up with an excuse to take to the local butchers. However I still don't like pigs feet.
I remain a vegetarian for the very reason that I can't yet deal with slaughtering and butchering an animal. I am not alone in being disturbed by death, up-close and dirty. But I wont be a hypcrite who has eats meat while clamouring for more laws to keep animals from being killed. Until I can kill and east Bambi, there's no steak for me. I really do hope that I can return to the world of omnivores soon.
"Humane" slaughter. That is an oxymoron. How about not raising animals for food? That would obviate the need for any slaughter.
That sounds like a great decision for you, Michael.
And for the animals and for the planet and for the global food supply and for human rights.....
This is every reason that people look to becoming vegetarians,
We live in a world that can provide healthy alternatives rather than animal cruelty.
I expect a few "tough" people to say they don't mind watching animals die however when I was younger it was these people that couldn't pull the trigger when hunting.
http://www.PETA.org
Once you become a vegetarian it is hard to ever go back.
Humane
Safer
Healthier
Oh flippin' A, will you PETArds get your facts straight. PETA kills, yes KILLS, animals, on an everyday basis. After all, your lord & savior Ingrid Newkirk believes that a dead animal is better than an "enslaved" one. I was once all rah rah PETA & HSUS, & then when I looked behind the proverbial curtain, I found that the asylum was being run by lunatics. The supposed "animal lovers" want nothing more than to kill all domesticate pets & have everyone eating granola & radishes. If I hear one more PETArd brag how they have made their dog a vegetarian, I will gobble down as much meat as I possibly can & puke it up on their steps so their dog can finally get a decent meal! Being a vege is one thing, being a supporter of groups that falsely advocate for "animal rights" while having kids that are well indoctrinated but still green behind the ears jamming needles o' death into the cats & kittens, dogs & puppies, as well as 90% of any animal that finds itself in the clutches of a PETArd, literally as they are being driven away from a home where all they knew was love!
Based on your response, I'd guess you're from the Midwest or South (or you had a pet taken from you).
I live in New England, and the adoption rate from our local shelters is over 95%. Actually, Midwestern and Southern states transport their unwanted pets up to us to place because New Englanders are the most responsible when it comes to animal adoption and care, including neutering. I've worked in the animal business in several didfferent capacities for 35 years and one behavior I've seen from uneducated people over and over again is the pattern of "blaming the shelter" because they're stuck trying to do something with an unwanted, abused or irreparably harmed animal that some ignorant person in society hurt. No need to trash the people who are at least trying to do something other than b*tch.
Artemis: based on your response, I think you are one of the (many) people who think that PETA and HSUS are associated with your local shelter. They have made it their business to come across this way. Most of those of us who are against PETA/HSUS fully support, including providing donations and time, our local shelters. PETA and HSUS are interested in animal RIGHTS. Your local animal shelter is most likely more interested in animal WELFARE. There is a big difference. Animal rights activist groups, including PETA and HSUS, want to see all domesticated animals cease to exist. That is why PETA had a couple young, unlicensed kids, killing completely adoptable animals and placing their bodies in dumpsters.
I rather slash their throats than pull the trigger....
I'd rather pull the trigger. It's faster, but in reality more expensive for the average slaughter house. Most are strung up by the legs and throats cut, seize and bleed to death. It's EASY to find videos of it on the internet, hard to watch.
And I'm a vegetarian of 25 years and D@mn proud of it.
This article makes me realize that I have made the correct decision being a vegetarian
I am trying to write this while crying......... How can someone love animals and kill them and eat them?
On a REAL farm, the animals are looked at as a commodity from birth to death- love doesn't come into the equation. I've watched this show and it's more of a large 'hobby farm'.
Why is it that killing and suffering of livestock is only important if a human happens to "love" the animal? If a pig is slaughtered and no human loves it, then is it somehow less important?
Tikvah, I'm so sorry. I used to cry to, but stopped about 20 years ago. I've learned that some meat eaters will laugh at you for crying, and NEVER see it from your perspective. There's no shame in being sensitive and caring, those who truly change the world are such people.
S
I would never laugh at someone's honest emotions, even though I am a meat eater.
As I said in my previous post, I understand and respect vegetarianism. However, once one has seen the horrible effects of chronic wasting disease on deer, caused by over-population in relation to available food supply (admittedly, caused by humans), the only rational conclusion is that hunting is by far the more humane choice.
Meat as a commodity is another matter.
I live in an apartment complex where a bunch of ferral cats/kittens live. I have saved a few handfuls of them and am waiting list to save the rest. If I drive down the road and see a stray dog I will pick him/her up and try to find the pups home. I have rescued a baby squirel and tried helping an injured bird. My point is I love animals. However, I do still eat them. I would never kill one but if one is already dead and the food store is selling it I will buy it. It probably sounds contradictory. And, believe me I have thought of becoming a vegertarian. I still think about it, ecspecially after reading an article like this. It is very sad what these animals go through and very unfortunate too. I know that I would never be able to witness a slaughter of any animal and as ignorant as it sounds I try not to think of where the food came from on my plate. I feel if it's already dead and being sold at the store than you might as well not let it go to waste. The animal did sacrifice unwillingly it's life for our food. IDK Maybe I'll look more into a verertarian's life style and see if I can do it. I feel for the animals but like I said, I try not to think about it.
If you are going to eat meat...look for those brands that offer humanely raised/slaughtered animals. There are more and more brands and varieties showing up in traditional grocery stores all of the time. If you and your hard earned dollars create the demand, the supply will follow. Those people who treat their animals with kindness are only too happy to say it on their packaging. That is the only way to know that the animal providing you and your family with dinner did not die howling and shrieking in pain. Whether you name an animal or not, scratch its ears, or just drive by it on a Sunday afternoon, there is no excuse for causing an animal agony during its last moments of life.
I'd like to know the fate of the coyote who took the bait. There's a disconnect here . . .
Next time you buy a couple of pigs, don't give them names. That's the first step in attachement. Unless, of course, you name them Lunch and Dinner:)
That's funny and I totally agree. We recently moved to the country and we have a chicken pen. To get prepared for the chickens, I read a book called "Chickens in your Backyard". They strongly suggest not naming the chickens you plan to eat unless you name them after dishes you make with chicken. While we are only going to have lay hens, we still plan to name them Fingers, Nuggets, Cacciatore, and Parmigiana.
As for the pigs, I would find it hard to watch because I have been around pigs and they are very intelligent. I would find it much easier to watch a cow or a chicken being slaughtered. Also in the book I read about raising chickens, it suggests that you have a "pet" chicken that you don't intend to slaughter. That way, our natural affection for animals as pets can be reserved for one and the rest are treated as future food.
I have serviced refrigeration equipment at an abattoir for several years. As much as I love animals, I love the meat more. Butchering has never bothered me. It is a part of life.
Kat,
You have my utmost respect. While vegetarianism is not a lifestyle I choose, I understand those who do. Far too many meat eaters in this country have forgotten where their meat comes from or, if they understand, are dismissive of the facts around the slaughter.
I am also a meat eater and a deer hunter. I have killed, gutted, and butchered numerous deer over the years and each one was a solemn occasion. In my opinion, every meat eater should either kill their own meat or witness its slaughter at least once. In my mind, it's the only way to truly understand where the meat comes from.
good point,
As a former hunter in my youth I was brought up around killing of animals for food.
However as I got older and made healthier eating decisions, I became a vegetarian which was not so easy.
More people need to know the difference between hunting and slaughter houses.
The average hamburger may contain meat from over 100 various cows. These plants are inhumane, unsafe and unsanitary.
No wonder why so many Americans are overweight and unhealthy.....
Bravo! As a vegan leaning vegetarian, that's all that I wish; that people take ownership of the process. I think you would see alot more people swearing off meat if they had to participate in the slaughter. Most people who say that they love meat and "have no problem with slaughtering" and that it is "in the nature of all living things to kill and consume" have never gone further than the supermarket for their "prey". The act of living requires us to eat other living things (plant or animal), and the way that we respect the other organisms that we consume says alot about us as humans.
People who can't witness a hog being slaughtered should not eat meat. We are carnivores creatures. However, humankind has a responsibility to raise and slaughter them in the most ethical way possible. The imperative word is possible. Far too many people sit in McDonald’s eating a hamburger complaining about someone butchering animals. I was not happy in the way that commercial slaughterhouses kill animals so I started to butcher my own. People need to understand what is involved before they can have a full appreciation of sacrifice the animal is making. It is a part of nature, but in the process we should not forget our humanity towards the animal.
We are carnivores? Can you point me to a biology book that would verify this claim?
That is the old argument from people that know no better.
This is the reason most Americans are so unhealthy. To those that claim we need meat, I am unaware of any disease or illness caused by lack of meat. There are many protein alternatives.
Jeff, you don't need a biology book to prove we are carnivores, you just need to observe people at the local supermarket.
I never said we are carnivores, I said we are carnivorous. We are omnivore, which means that we eat both mean and plants. Maybe you should learn the facts before you speak.
certainly. research gut length versus carnivore/herbivore. there are oddities to be sure (the panda comes to mind, a carnivore who eats nothing but bamboo) but almost invariably herbivores have an enormous gut length whereas carnivores have a short gut. we humans (and pandas) have a short gut. check it out.
Humans fall into the omnivore category, which is defined as generalized feeders with neither carnivore nor herbivore specializations for acquiring or processing food, and who are capable of consuming and do consume both animal protein and vegetation. Historically the human diet has been made up of mostly fruits, nuts, grains (once we learned how to produce it) with animal proteins playing a smaller role. This is because it took much less energy to eat the abundent vegetation than to regularly chase down an animal during a hunt. Now that meat has become easily available, as well as cheaper due to the antibiotic and growth hormone revolution, it has become the main attraction in American's diets. All that factual information aside, as a medical researcher who has witnessed both the ethanization of research pigs and pigs slated for human consumption alike, it is a very difficult thing to watch another living thing die in any manner. It is slightly horrifying to watch the mechanized, and almost manufacturing line-like slaughter houses that process hundreds of animals a day. I like that this article shows that there is research being done into better ways to harvest animals for food on a smaller and more sustainable scale.
Actually it is probably the other way around. We became the humans we are today because we ate meat and processed (cooked) food. The uncultivated vegetables and plants 8 million years ago were tough and poor in nutrients and sparse in density. Our far off ancestors spent nearly all of their time gathering, and living on the edge of malnutrition, much smaller, much lighter. When we learned to hunt, to fish, we had food with more protein and more calories that required somewhat less energy to acquire. We started to have time for things other than nonstop food gathering. Culture and language progressed. We became better hunters, started to fish. We domesticated the dog, tremendously increasing our hunting potential. Started to preserve meat. With even more available time, the science of cultivation was started. Seeds of the best plants were saved and replanted, probably on the deltas where we were fishing. Eventually we got onto the road we are on now.
Now with modern vegetable varieties and good planting science we can easily support humans entirely on a vegetable base, but it is unlikely that humanity would've happened had we not been erstwhile carnivores.
Fruits and are not available year round. Humans began to cultivate grains just 10 -7 thousand years ago.What is left – meat?
EXACTLY. If you can't stand the thought of how Babe and his barnyard friends die you NEED to take a look at your diet. These animals aren't tickled to death so if you turn into a squeamish wimp then you best drop meat from your diet. growing up in the country I've seen animals be slaughtered for food and then wind up on the table. I personally feel ok with eating meat but it's because i don't discriminate. Meat is meat. If one wants to get picky about "this is too cute to eat!" and "ew, that's yucky it's ok to eat" then it's time to reassess why one's an omnivore.
"To many offal eaters, the enjoyment thereof is a sign of respect to the animal from which they came. If you're going to take away its life, you might as well use the whole thing."
Does the animal somehow suffer less just because we eat the entire body after he or she is dead?
Suffer, no, but is that the only ponit one can make about how to respect and honor an animal we have chosen to use only for food? In human terms – when a human dies, why do we put it in a special coffin and do a ceremony and all that? Why not just dump the body in a hole and let it do what it does, decay? Because it matters, simply because we decide that it does...not because it truly matters to the dead person, right?
There's no ethical slaughter or "humane" BS. When we don't need to eat animals or animal products to survive and be perfectly healthy yet we kill and otherwise exploit them anyway, that means we are causing unnecessary suffering simply for the sake of our appetite. There is no "humane" or "ethical" way to kill a sentient being when it is a totally and wholly unnecessary act. It can be no more "humane" or "ethical" than can domestic violence or rape.
To repeat, science shows us that most animals (certainly all "farm" animals) are sentient creatures that feel pain and pleasure and have most of the same basic emotions as ourselves. They have essentially the same central nervous system and sensory receptors that we do. The very same science shows us that we can live and be healthy without harming them. I think the conclusion is unmistakable.
- Pseudo-science (not real science) suggests they have feelings
- If we didn't rear animals for food, there would be FAR less of them. As note above, pigs offer relatively few other benefits aside from eating. So, is it more humane to raise hundreds of millions of pigs, let them enjoy several years of life, and then kill and eat them; or is it more humane to have the worldwide population of pigs go from hundreds of millions (or billions) to a few thousand?
If it has a brain, it has a nervous system to detect pain, synapses, neurons, chemical reactions within the body prompting fear, excitement, sadness, arousal... like humans. This is not "pseudo science."
Jim: This farm sounds like Club Med for pigs compared to a lot of farms that raise them. You talk of pigs "enjoying" several years of life, but I think that is a questionable characterization.
Also, your belief that only pseudoscience supports animals having feelings had some merit 10 years ago. Clearly they experience physical pain, but more and more evidence of animal cognition and emotional complexity is appearing in genuine scientific literature. Of course, we still don't know for certain and probably never will. However, though animal advocates might be guilty of anthropomorphism, I personally think this is a lesser offense against reason than assuming that just because animals aren't as emotionally or cognitively complex as humans that they therefore have no dimension to their experience at all.
pseudoscience? you're a moron. they can feel just as humans can feel. or maybe it's faking it when it cries in pain when one leaves it dying in a slaughter room floor
Actually Jim. REal science states that animals can feel as well. What is debatable is whether or not they are self aware.
Having a brain and synapses doesn't mean something can feel fear, or pain. That's not the right correlation.
Guest, for one you are a total dumb***. Do not talk about the way that animals are slaughtered if you have not walked through the slaughterhouse yourself. If you think that we carelessly beat animals to death with a blunt stick and "leave them dying on the slaughter room floor" you are stupidly mistaken. I am so sick of hearing everyone saying that farmers and ranchers do not care for our animals and that they are not killed in the right fashion. I come from an agricultural background where we raise both catlle and hogs, and we DO care for the animals. Most people have this horrible picture in their head that we (farmers and ranchers) have no sense when it comes to caring for our livestock. WRONG!
Jim, great post. I come from a family that raised a pig every year for slaughter that provided valuable protein for growing kids. Meat portions were small, but enough with a balanced mix of grains and vegetables and fruits that were grown and preserved by the family. Not everyone has the time or inclination to be a vegetarian, but it doesn't mean that those of us who eat meat are less 'evolved' or less ethical. Death is part of life, and you can raise animals kindly and slaughter them humanely. The problem is with factory or industrial farming that is cruel to animals and unhealthy for people. Have some balance, people! The holier-than-thou and charges of 'hypocritical!' from the veggie-fanatics are getting a little old.
Interesting, Jim, that you say this "pseudo-science" confirms animals have feelings (which I take to mean that you believe animals do not have feelings) yet you go on to say pigs should "enjoy" a few years of life. Well how would a pig enjoy a few years of life if it has no feelings??
Yet, there are those who would also argue that plants – in their own way – have the ability to "feel" and "respond" even if its different from how we do. Does that difference mean we are allowed to exploit and kill plants for our consumption? At some point you have to draw the line – and the best we can all do is ensure that all the products we consume, animal or plant – are treated in the best manner that we can prior to consumption. One could argue that it's inhumane the way humans just pop out other humans without any plan to take care of them...yet, we arent to the point of sterilizing irresponsible people so as to save humanity from exploitation and unavoidable poverty and distress.
When people start talking about treating plants ethically they completely alienate themselves from 99% of people and make people with the animal welfare movement appear to be whack jobs. Pleae don't do it.
I agree with you completely Jessica! Plants feel and respond in their own way and yet we have no issue raising them through horrible conditions including drought and early freezes. Due to these conditions many of these plants die before making it to market. I would guess 1000 times more plants die needlessly than do farm animals. While animals have, to some extent, the ability to help themselves survive through foraging, crops are completely dependent on the planter to be sustained. To that extent, well cared for farm animals live a much better life than many farmed plants.
I hate it when people refer to plants as being "exploited." They have no ability to feel pain or emotions and no sentience to speak of. It's not the plants themselves, but the use of pesticides and other unnatural methods in their growth that is a truly heinous act against the environment. And it isn't an argument, but a fact, that raising an infant in irresponsible conditions of poverty is inhumane. But let's not forget that the reason that these conditions exist is due in part to the fact that 50% of grain produced worldwide is later fed to animals that are slaughtered. What a waste.
Right. While you're on that logic, go ahead and bring the animal rights to the lions, bears and other carnivores and see if they care how they kill their prey?
We should air lift special tofu dinners and protein shakes to the lions, tigers and bears everywhere, so that we can prevent the suffering of all the poor bunnies and deer.
Thanks Really. I'm from West Africa. When lions & jaguars attack villages, killing people, you don't ever hear of their own kind debating whether to go vegan/vegetarian. When snakes, crocodile, or hippos attack & eat people, they don't pause & say this human feels pain.
Even big predators deserve our respect. Just because they wouldn't think twice about killing us doesn't mean we should treat them similarly. Or do you think that all humans should act like lions and tigers? I think we can agree that we're a more evolved species than that.
Cody, I agree w/you and have eliminated most animal products in my life. However, there are some who can't or won't make that sort of commitment and I think, rather than call people names we are better off guiding the industry to a more humane model (yes, not entirely humane but....) that can try to improve animal's lot on earth, at least a little. Reducing animal products is also undeniably greener. A nice compromise for a lot of people is the one promoted by writer Mark Bitten where we go vegan before 6pm – after 6 well...The effect of that is at least there was some reduction. If people can't get their heads around the philosophical problems of meat consumption, there is a great argument for meat reduction (or elimination) on environmental criteria.
I just noticed that there are two Cody's posting in this thread. I made the reply to Jim. I am NOT the one who started this post. If I post again, I'll make it clear in my name.
Cody,
You're completely fooling yourself if you thinking a vegetarian diet makes you somehow less of a burden on the planet. Do you have any idea how many millions of acres of grasslands have been sacrificed for YOUR meals? Unless you're growing all your own food, you are a burden on wildlife. You are responsible for destroying habitat that leads to the death of millions of animals.
Humans are a drain on this planet and it's animal inhabitants. There is no way around that. So please, all you PETA fans, get off your high horse. You're doing more damage to this planet and killing more animals than my family of meat-eaters ever will.
You have as much responsibility for the planet as any one else, which doe not go away simply because you are looking to make a point. Insinuating that one person is responsible for the destruction of millions of acres of grassland because of their food choices is irresponsible; we ALL ( this includes you and me) should be making better food choices that preserve the few resources we have left, meat or no meat. Bacon and tofu alike will not be so easy to come by if we don't.
Remember you have as much responsibility for the food choices of you and your family as anyone else does.
It's not just destruction of habitat that kills animals. The actual farming process for an acre of soybeans kills small mammals, rodents, and insects directly; far more animals than killing one cow for about the same protein. But hey, they're invisible so they don't matter to these non-meat eaters.
There's a lot more to it than most people will even begin to admit.
There has been little study in the area of humans' diet, and the effect of meat eating at young ages, seeing as it's not profitable.
Humans increased their meat consumption sometime before our early ancestors colonized Africa. This massive boost in simple proteins and a change in the jaw musculature allowed for rapid, increased brain capacity. It was important at one time, and may still be very important over a very long time frame, we just don't know.
Meat isn't the only way to get protein, but it's certainly one of the most natural ways to do it, and one of the few ways to do so with minimal dietary imbalances. We can overcome it with our technology, but we also have to understand the implications that ceasing to raise livestock for slaughter will have.
Manure is used heavily in fertilizers for farms. Every few years, a field is also fallowed and made into grazing land so that nutrients can return to the soil. This keeps the soil from being depleted and thus keeps it viable for future generations of plant.
We could not support nearly the number of people we do now using only "organic" foods and without raising livestock for slaughter. Cows and pigs certainly provide little worth outside of slaughter. Milking cows are actually a specific breed, and without being milked regularly, suffer from mastitis and die.
In other words, these animals were not just raised for slaughter, they were bred for slaughter, and the exploitation of animals for meat actually benefits those snobby vegetarians who continue to push their ill-formed opinions on the rest of us.
Meat eating certainly can be done away with, but raising livestock has to stay in place anyway, just so we can replenish our soils naturally. And if we raise livestock anyway, should we really let their corpses rot?
I'm not arguing that the abuse of animals is a good thing. Slaughter and abuse are two totally different things, and anyone who argues that they are not needs a serious wakeup call. The rest of the world doesn't have access to soy lattes and daily multivitamins. Wake up and smell the bacon. It's not murder, it's sustinence.
I hunted in Africa and watched as living, breathing, beautiful creatures one minute became sliced and diced and cooked "commodities", as you say, the next. While the experience was not enough to turn me away from meat altogether (I just don't know how I'd get along without at least chicken), the further meat is from it's natural state, the better for me, since I am less reminded of its origins. But that is a state of denial, and your article is causing me to rethink my stand on meat consumption. My 20-yaer-old daughter did a report as a high school student on slaughter houses, and she has been a vegetarian ever since. Thank you for your article which is challenging my convictions.
You would get along fine if you gave up chicken. In fact, it would probably be great for your health.
An excellent article. Thank you for your well-rounded views. As a non-farm girl growing up, I now live on a farm where we raise hogs for a living. While we don't name every pig on the farm, but we do provide our pigs with the best care we can provide. My son shows pigs, and it is sometimes hard not to become attached to a special few. When you send a pig to market, you take pride in knowing you are providing a quality, delicous product for others to enjoy. Certainly not everyone can have that privilege. Farming and animal agriculture is one of the best, if not the best, job in the world. I am proud to be a pork producer and take seriously the role we have in growing delicious pork products for our neighbors, chefs and other consumers.
Thank you for providing breakfast, lunch and dinner on many occasions:)
Yes, thank you Kelley.
You took the words right out of my mouth, I like to see these articles that will inform the consumers and the public about the good we do for our animals. We as farmers/producers take very good care of our animals. I'm proud to be a producer to give the consumers the best quality of meat we can, weather it is beef or pork, we take the very best care of the animals for the consumers and for the animals.
Your life is in vain if you feel pride for doing such a thing.
No, she's just not a five year old incapable of understanding the difference between a food and a pet.
Thank you for your hard work! I have no problems with the consumption of meat (I'm a meatetarian myself ;) but I like to know the animal I am consuming led a healthy and happy life before it was killed. There is no reason animals should not be kept humanely and it sis good to hear from one such farmer.
Thinking of you (and you piggies) as I eat my sausage breakfast sandwich!
I buy a pig from my neighbors who also show thier pigs. I get an animal that tastes WAY better than what you can get in the grocery. I feel better knowing the animal was raised humanely. They are trained to get on a trailer, have a bath, and also taken for walks to prepare them for the show pen. The family does all they can to reduce the stress the animals may experience during travel and showing. They live a great life before slaughter.
Kelley, thank you for your contribution. I do not want to look a pig in the eye as it goes to slaughter and I am thankful that I have the privilege in this country to purchase good quality meat that has been prepared and packaged for me.
Most of us answer "I couldn't possibly" yet have no problem eating the carcass. Disgusting.
Agree. If you're going to pay for the killing of an animal so you can eat it, the least you could do is be able to look that animal in the eye knowing that you're going to snuff it out. People like to lament what's natural or unnatural – every other carni/omnivore on earth but humans watches its prey die before it eats it. If you can't do that, you don't deserve to eat that animal.
So Erick, all carnivorous "scavengers" look their prey in the eye before killing and eating them?
Hardly.
vnd101 – Let's use your analogy. Humans should eat meat because they're scavengers. In that case you should not buy any meat. You should only eat what someone else has thrown out or excreted. In that case I'd love to put you on Youtube.
I have looked them in the eye, and I will in the future. Humans eat meat. Deal with it.
So you're saying we're all cowards (those of us that eat meat) because we don't watch our food get killed? So what would satisfy you? We all stop eating meat, even though it's in our nature as human beings to eat meat, and destroy an entire industry to satisfy yours/our conscience? I live in the city, if I didn't I would not be opposed in any way to hunting and preparing my own meet, but I can't run around my neighborhood with a .22 looking for the nearest animal to off for food. I don't like this moral vegetarian trip that people go on where they criminalize everyone who eats meat. It's in most people's natural living order to eat meat and some fall seriously ill when they cut it out of their diet, I've seen it first hand.
@Erick
I grew up on a farm, I've watched a pig killed that we helped raise and even assisted in the butchering. It is just a part of (as they say) the circle of life. We've done the same with steers that we raised to a good size. In both cases the meat was highly tasty. People have been doing this since the beginning of human history. So get off your moral high horse.
There is nothing natural about meat that comes from American factories. What you are eating is mostly corn fed animal (not natural) given a ton of antibiotics to prevent E.Coli from developing due to the conditions of holding pens where animals are kept so close together that they cannot avoid wading in their own scat (not natural), and given growth hormones that find their way into our diet (not natural). Not to mention the chemical cocktails that are added after that animal has long ceased to look like an animal, including anti-foaming agents, oxidizing preservatives, etc. This farm is a the exception to the rule of the food industry.
The idea of your dinner happily grazing its way about the grass on a farm to your plate is a marketing scheme and pure fantasy. Meat is an important part of a human diet, but there are far too many humans and too much money to be made for us to eat as we are "supposed to" for thousands of years, i.e the natural way. There is also a stupendous amount of money in keeping us from finding out the real effects of our diet on our health.
So before you mount your high horse, consider that every bite of that processed garbage is shaving a few seconds of good health off the lives of you and your family to be replaced by a future filled with medications and antibiotics, exactly like the animals you've been eating all of your life.
Tick, tock, tick, tock.
@Mike
I honestly don't care. If you don't want to eat meat, that is your prerogative, but as for me, I'm going to continue eating meat. Heck, maybe if you were getting your meat fresh from the farm like me, you'd not care either.
PS: There are brands of meat sold that advertise no anti-biotics, or other chemicals being used; but they'll cost you. Or you can cut the middleman and go straight to the slaughterhouse or butcher shop if you have one nearby and buy meat with-out the extra preservative ingredients.
@ Mike
I get a bit tired of the implication that all meat comes from factories. For flat out weight produced your white meats chicken and pork are highly commercialized. Beef on the other hand is in fact mostly raised on indivdual farms, and very little of it actually winds up in a finnishing operation prior to slaughter. Just the facts the package of -beef- you buy at a local store may have gone from neighbors farm, to stockyards, to slaughter, to distribution and back to a local store in less than one week.
And there are those of us that answered "I couldn't possibly" and don't eat any animal, eggs, drink milk, etc. People can mock me for lifestyle but at least I know I'm not a hypocrite!
Same here. I'm a vegan. People give me a hard time about it, and guess what? I don't care! I can sleep at night just fine.
I can't find it in me to kill an animal so I don't feel I have the right to eat one that someone else did the dirty work on. I don't have a problem with picking an apple off a tree or pulling a carrot from the ground. Thus, I stick with fruits and veggies.
And some of us are somewhat okay being hypocrites about this. This isn't 150,000 B.C. anymore.
No, its 2010 AD where idiots insist on personifying all animals we come across and trying to scare the crap out of people.
I don't really like to eat red meat...I don't consider it tasty, to be honest...and I'm glad I live in a time where there are better choices for me. But I also don't condemn those who do. Humans have included meat in their diet since the beginning. What I do prefer, and certainly am not seeing on this board, is the callous disregard of some meat-eaters to how any animal is raised and treated. They cannot speak with you and I, but the goats and pigs I've been acquainted with know when slaughter day is approaching. They can also survive in the wild (something that few humans can do) and can show aggression or compassion to animals not within their own species. For example, some "meat eater's" I've talked to would have no problem hunting a deer or killing a cow while she still had her young to wean. You'll never be able to moralize with me that's somehow OK.
Nope. I would have an issue, I'm a vegetarian.
Why is ok to kill pigs or other animials and poultry for meat but criminal to kill dogs or cats...hypocrisy?
Once an animal becomes a pet that is the object of your affection, it's a totally different situation. That pet becomes a member of the family. Even in some Asian countries that allow eating dogs, those dogs are not pets, they're solely raised for slaughter.
You have no idea what you're talking about. It is an absolute fact that in China many former cats and dogs that were pets end up abandoned by their owners and rounded up by animal control that sends them to the meat markets. Look it up yourself before you spout BS as fact.
BS – you are right. i have see that a lot in the factory towns. they say if your back is to the sky you can eat it. It is a totally different culture and one mans pet is another families dinner.
Speaking as a good friend has been in China over the last year, yes, the food markets have many Chow-chows that were bred for the purpose of food just as we do with cattle.
@BS The point was not that dogs who are somebody's pet once are never slaughtered by anybody, but rather that a person doesn't take his personal pet and slaughter it for Sunday dinner.
BS, when a pet is abandoned by its owner, it isn't treated much like a pet anymore. In the US, abandoned pets are killed by pounds, sold to laboratories for research, used as "bait" for training fighting dogs, shot, trapped, and poisoned, run over by cars, tortured by random sickos, or left to die of slow starvation. We don't really have a whole lot of standing to criticize anyone else for eating animals in the same circumstances.
Worldwalker, yes because objectively speaking, those are the only things that happens to abandoned pets. /sarcasm
Dog lover you are a racicit. My husband grew up on a farm in China and they harvested dogs, cats, rabbits, ducks etc. That is what they all eat there...and I'll bet he's a waaaaay nicer person than YOU.
Mei is an idiot....why dont people just go vegetarian...
I cant understand this fixation of Americans with not killing dogs/cats but everything else is fair game... Pray, can some one tell me what sin has the cow or pig committed to deserve such lowly status (BTW, in India Cows are holy!)? People made a big deal about Vick killing dogs but he way Turkeys are slaughtered during Thanskgiving must make one cringe – the famers in my opinion be sent to prison for wanton cruelty. BTW, I am vegetarian and I am not self-righteous. I dont care if people at meat (dont want my family toe at thats all).. But killing should be equal... If we are going to destroy life, lets do it in as eaual opportunity...
BS...sorry but it is YOU that is full of bs. having lived several years in the east, it IS fact that there is a difference between dogs as food and dogs as pets.
East? thats like saying I live in America... You live in South, Central, North... Canada??? You can generalize and entire region??? On the last visit to one of my factories which used to have 2 dogs, guess what…. It has one now, the other ended up as hotpot from some of the employees (not approved by the the management). So that makes a pet ending up as dinner. You can argue that 2 stray dogs adopted by the factory are not considered pets, but they were being fed by the staff and even had their own bowels.
Cat- The other white meat!!!
I eat dog when I go to China on business. Pigs and dogs are both living animals, the only difference is that people perceive the dog to be cute & more intelligent. Same thing with tuna vs. dolphin. I'd rather not eat any animal, but it is hard to avoid. I just watched food Inc. and it shed light on the food industry, highly recommended.
I eat chinese people when I go to China for business.....moron
I eat chinese people when I go to China for business.....moron ?? huh.. what does that even mean?
Pigs are actually very intelligent animals, and fish do not have a 1 second memory; however, dolphins are intelligent mammals more similar to us than fish, which is probably one reason we rate them higher than fish and have more internal conflict over the demise of dolphins than fish. I will probably go to China at some point with my family, but I will NOT eat a dog or a cat - I could never be a party to that. I have seen them caged for slaughter and how they are killed, and those conditions are attrocious for any animal, especially one our culture cherishes as pets. It would be like eating a family member. Sick.
Do you eat whales when you go to Japan, Whaley?
haha, no way. If i had my choice i would avoid all meat in asia. the only reason i even have touched dog is because i end up in these very small and remote villages in China and thats what they have. Depending who you are dealing with is is VERY disrespectful to refuse the food they offer. And most of the time they dont tell you what it is until later. You might have 30 dishes of food in front of you and it is almost impossible to get a full breakdown of all the meats on the table.
you'd rather not eat any animal, yet you eat dogs when you go to china? that's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.
it is not hard to avoid eating animals, you're just too lazy to try it.
China, dogs and humane in the same sentence is hypocrisy. The dogs are beaten, tortured and skinned alive. Cats are often boiled alive.
Guest you make me laugh. I am 100% sure you have not been to these places. The biggest form of respect is to offer guests meat. Meat is a sign of wealth and respect. Business is done not at factories but over dinner with lots of Booze and then at KTV.
As an American you think I really like eating jelly fish or Sea cucumber??? No, I do it because not to is a big slap in their face.
There's not much your Chinese buddies' wont eat. I suggest they start eating their children, its good for the environment!
You guys who call whaley names are uninformed. There is zero room in China for an American businessman to make a statement. Conditions for animals and people are often terrible. When you buy Chinese, that's what you're supporting! When you buy Chinese, you're paying someone literally $0.35 per hour at 100°F, no workers' comp, no unemployment, and no rights. It's just far enough away that we can pretend that we don't know.
I think we should all just eat you, Dog Lover. People who are dog lovers are just a dumb as their dogs...
Dog Lover you seem a little racist. Telling the Chinese to eat their own kids, just because their view of food is different than yours. You might hold a dog on a higher pedestal than a pig or a cow because it is the only living thing that shows some sort of affection towards you, however maybe it is okay for different cultures to view things differently. Ever tried eating cow in India? Hmm isn’t it strange that they worship them, yet you are willing to shove a Big Mac down that throat of yours every week? Seems like you live a double standard.
I view eating meat as animals eating animals and yes I do mean humans that eat meat as animals. We are not long out of the cave and our eating habits have not changed much, if anything they have gotten worse. Because of all the chemicals the factories use in the animals to assist in growth, it is passed along to anyone who eats it. Think of all the growth hormones your consuming as you eat pork or steak. Is it really worth it.? How about the cancer rate? Think before you eat another piece of decomposing meat.
Umm...no. Tuna vs. Dolphin is not the same thing. Tuna is a fish, Dolphins are mammals. Dolphins have developed social, behavioral & language skills very close to humans and primates. Nice try.
so the Japanese should not eat dolphin cause it is a mammal and it has friends that it can communicate with? Your missing the point. All i am saying is that cross cultures people view animals differently. To a farming village in Japan a dolphin is the same as a tuna, it is a commodity. I don't necessarily agree with their thinking. To me they are both living and probably neither one wants to end up on your dinner plate regardless of which way they breath. If people are going to eat meet, im my opinion, it should be farm raised and our eco system should be protected as much as possible. However, that farm raised animal could end up being something that here in america we find cute and adorable.
I'm a well-traveled vegan. Meat products are pretty damn easy to avoid. You can find fruits, vegetables, and grains anywhere you go, and if they don't even have that, then you can survive skipping a meal.
to moshark and the others who say its "easy to avoid meat". you are clearly not traveled enough. you might think so but your not even close. try sitting down in a village in China, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, or many of the other places i have been and tell them you dont want the food they just spent the day preparing and month saving for. see how that goes. An average dinner out for a "guest" costs about the same as 3 months salery for 10 factory workers. You might have a few managers at that table who dont make the cost of your meal in a month. go ahead and say no... see how that feels to them. you are totally ignorant. try actually traveling and getting emersed in a culture instead of staying at the four season in bangkok.
Whaley,
You are so right and I applaud you for not resorting to name calling. Even farmers who name their animals and still love them, slaughter and eat them for consumption.
So please folks, chill out. Americans are not the only "civilized" society in the world. We are only different.
Oh, c'mon. I myself wouldn't, couldn't do it personally - it's a horrific thing to watch - but watching a pack of lions take down a zebra is also a horrible thing to watch. It's a living creature dying in a horrific way before your very eyes, but my mind rationalizes it as "If I weren't there, it would still die, and by the way, would you like to see that mother lion's eight cubs starve to death because they don't know how to eat grass?"
Sorry. It's mother Nature, and Nature is not always a vegetable.
Incorrect, whaley. I've lived in China and Taiwan for extended periods of time and I am fluent in Chinese. If you explain (in Chinese), very apologetically and very politely, that you can't eat a certain thing and why, Chinese people are the first to understand. In fact, they will be extremely curious about why you choose to eat the way you do (or why you choose not to eat certain things). You can demonstrate your appreciation of their efforts even while refusing. I have traveled to remote villages and eaten with villagers all over China. What you said about villagers saving and spending extravagant amounts on a meal to act as the gracious hosts that they always are is absolutely true...but claiming that a refusal of any particular dish is a slap in the face isn't the full story and is playing on people's inexperience by claiming that you know how all Chinese people would react in this situation. I would NEVER eat dog in China, Taiwan or anywhere else in Asia. And they did not feel disrespected or crushed. But, I know how to still be a gracious guest and how to refuse things so that no one will lose face. Perhaps you should learn Chinese so you know how to refuse a food? Or if you do know Chinese and are still claiming that you have to eat whatever is put in front of you, then maybe you just don't know the culture well enough because you only visit on business trips!
Hypocrisy
Your post absolutely.
Millions of dogs and cats die in shelters by euthanasia (usually the closest to being humane) Are you suggesting we start harvesting these poor animals too for consumption? Dogs/cats are companion animals and should be treated as such. Adopt/spay/neuter and save lives..
Elie, yes sure we can harvest them, but the problem is...we need to get rid of those chemicals we euthanized them with.....
Have you read Eating Animals by Jonathan Safran? Other than being a really interesting book he does talk about this in a chapter. Just as it is more efficent for me to eat an apple instead of eating an animal that once ate an apple it would techincally be more efficent for us to eat a dog instead of turning it into protien at a rendering plant and then feeding it to an animal that we then eat (which we do so we have all eaten a dog or cat in the food chain way). I totally agree with you, spay, neuter and adopt and I think we should all embrace a vegetarian diet since it is healthier, more efficient and better for the enviroment.
To Notacow: Actually, it is much more efficient to eat animals. Animals such as beef & dairy cattle are able to take foodstuffs that we can't consume (cellulose, in particular) and turn them into a meat & milk product that we can consume, with high nutritional value. Animals do not eat the same foods that we would consume in a vegetarian diet. Animals do not consume apples, sweet corn & veggies, they consume diets made of forages that are specifically formulated for their optimal health, nutrition & production.
To the original poster, krazyroo: definitely hypocrisy. Who are we to say that it is wrong to eat cats & dogs? It is only because of the view of these animals in our society (where they have gone from mutual companions, providing us with protection in turn for us to provide them with food, to the most extreme where people feel they are like children). Maybe our society needs to take a step back and realize that other cultures will utilize animals in much different means (like some Hispanics cooking raccoon & skunk because they are considered delicacies) and that we are in no position to judge. Just as other cultures use horse meat as food source (don't even get me started on the horse slaughter ban in the US, which has created higher numbers of abandoned horses in rural areas). Just as individuals should have the right to choose whether or not they consume a vegetarian diet, they too should have the choice to consume a carnivorous diet.
@Dairy Farmer's Daughter: While it's true that cows and goats can digest material we cannot, your argument fails for pigs. I don't know what kind of farm you run or what kind of food you feed your pigs, but Josh and Brent fed Porky and Bess apples, sweet corn, and veggies as shown in the video.
Because most westerners do not eat cats or dogs, but they do eat pigs. However, Orthodox Jews and muslims don't eat pork, and Hindis don't eat beef. Many Americans are shocked to find that in Europe, people eat horses. People of different cultures have different beliefs.
Exactly. The only reason we have an issue with eating dogs and cats, is our society tells us to have an issue. Other societies don't. It wasn't until humans started keeping dogs and cats as companion animals (as opposed to work animals) that they began to gain standing above other farm animals.
Does being in a 'different culture' make it right to eat dogs or cats or pigs or cattle. In my view its all wrong. And those that abandon horses or dogs or cats are lacking in intelligence. They have no compassion for animals in the first place and education at a young age is most important. You are what you eat is an old saying, I wonder what pig eaters think of that saying?
@pockets: "You are what you eat is an old saying, I wonder what pig eaters think of that saying?" Actually pigs are quite intelligent and form complex relationships. Plants on the other hand are unintelligent and not self aware at any level. So vegans/vegetarians are completely unintelligent and not self aware while us "pig eaters" are intelligent and are able to have complex relationships with other humans? Sounds about right. And btw, our diets have changed considerably since we've left our caves, however moving over to a complete vegan diet is not based on progress at all, but is strictly a pseudo moralistic move. And the majority of animals are not raised using growth hormones, that is a lie perpetrated by the vegans of this country, anyone who has worked at a farm or knows people that run a farm knows this to be true.
@Richard: you took the words right out of my meat-respecting and -loving mouth.
Because cats and dogs are pets. Cats keep rodents and bugs away from food. Dogs are guardians and hunters. Pigs, cows, and chickens have been raised to slaughter.
Saying that you eat meat is fine. Trying to support that statement/way of life by spouting lies (we are omnivores, we need meat) is another. At least have to the courage to stand by your convictions by telling the truth. If we need meat how do the various groups around the world who do not eat it survive?
To adam, those in other countries don't really survive by not eating meat. Many are unhealthy, anemic. Fact of the matter is that every food should be covered, otherwise you will be missing something from day to day that you really need to function properly. I don't mean eating meat in excess is fine, just like you shouldn't eat any foods in excess. Still, you do need it to survive. If they could, the pigs would eat us for survival.
I we were not meant to eat meat, why do we have teeth like other meat eating animals such as canine front teeth for tearing of meat, and thinner enamel layers on the teeth. Animals like cows (and other vegetarian animals) have no canines (like dogs, wolves, tigers, etc), and they have very thick enamel coating their teeth to protect them from the chewing of dirt covered vegetation. Also, we do not have the stomachs or digestive tracts that purely vegetarian animals have. Human vegetarians still need sources of protein to survive and live healthy lives. Yes, there are non-animal sources of protein, but none nearly as efficient as meat and dairy.
To Melissa and the reply posts: It is not at all true that humans "need" meet. I've been a vegetarian since I was a kid, so if people required meat to survive, I'd have died decades ago. Those meat-cutting teeth are just as useful on fruits and vegetables, for the record.
Though I'm from an agricultural family (my dad and grandfather raised Black Angus cattle, among other things), I raised my own family vegetarian, and we have managed to completely avoid common physical problems that most think of as "inevitable". My (college-age) kid has never tasted meat of any kind, and is in fantastic health... so that "meat is essential" argument goes out the window.
It is indisputable that animals feel pain. Any farmer or pet owner can tell you that they have very distinct personalities as well. I have no desire to contribute to the suffering of any living being, which is why I chose this lifestyle, and while I respect others' choice to eat meat (including all but my immediate family's), I can honestly say that we've avoided a lot of physical problems specifically because of our eating habits.
Why is there always someone like you, making ridiculous comparisons such as this? If you can't differentiate between the meaning of livestock and pets to people, you have bigger problems than perceiving that as hypocrisy. There is so much that needs to be changed in the food industry, from our basic understanding of what "real food"is, to the way the livestock is treated, fed, and killed, adding the argument of eating pets is superfluous and moronic, to say the least.
if you have to ask why it's ok to kill pigs but not cats or dogs you have obviously never owned a pet. This sounds like you are looking for a reason to get away with abuse to animals. Do you really want to eat a cat or dog or are you just cruel?
you have obviously never grown up on a farm,
I had my own horse and PET PIG, but when time came, off to the butcher they went. Didi I have a connection to them ? YES, were they good on a plate? yes.
I've owned pets and still I firmly believe that if you are willing to eat meat at all, you shouldn't differentiate between any type of animal really. I would have a really hard time eating a dog, cat, or primate because of the culture in which I was raised, but I recognize that there is little difference between a cat, dog, or a pig. Pigs and cows are highly intelligent animals who happen to not be cute enough to be considered pets by most Americans. Thus, they end up as steaks on a plate.
I have rescued many different animals (which is why I'm a vegan) and believe they feel emotions and pain the same as us. (Anyone who has had dogs SHOULD know this) Animals used for food (the thought makes me nauseous) should be murdered in the most humane way possible. ( If we really are the most evolved species to exist on this planet) to satisfy the neanderthal carnivores.
Not sure - pigs are VERY SMART omnivores ... I grew fond of the ones I knew.
Humans don't often eat carnivores, like dogs and cats because the meat is rather stringy, the flavor isn't as good, and it's usually fairly lean. It was also easier to corral and shepherd grazing animals since they did well in numbers and didn't attack their handlers. It's always a plus when your food doesn't attack you.
We mankind evolved from Chimpanzees or Gorillas, it is my understanding Chimps are vegetarians. Isn't eating meat of various animals make us lot less then an animal!!!! Millions of people live healthy life eating vegetarian food all their life. Though eating animals for those who want to is fine too!!
Chimpanzees can and will eat meat. Do a little research.
Chimps are most definitely NOT vegetarian. They hunt and eat animals whenever they can get them. As our closest genetic relatives, this is pretty good evidence that humans are omnivores. Granted chimps in the wild don't consume nearly the amount of meat that typical western people do. Incidentally chimps also murder chimps from other troops. I use the word "murder" deliberately because this often happens in a premeditated fashion in organized raids.
Shows how much you know. Chimps and Gorillas are our contemporary "relatives" in the animal kingdom, how could we have evolved from them, in the past? Secondly, Chimps hunt in packs for meat, primarily small monkeys.
Wow, so many stupid people. You are on the internet, all you have to do is google chimps to find out that they do eat meat but you would rather look like an idiot!
Nonsense 101, everythning you said is either flawed or incorrect. Are you even old enough to be using the computer?
guest 1008
Our Ansestorial cousins Chimps and Gorillas are mainly vegetarians, occasionally they do eat insects, termites and chipms eat meat 5% of the time. I do not think they ate cows, pigs, dogs and cats though. Assuming the nature set the evolution trajectory for human being to be vegetarian we should be vegetarian. I am assuming fellow posters!! U ME and ASS.
Guest, they only eat small insects and a limited amount of meat due to the apes(covering the meat eaters) require tools like we humans. Have you ever seen hunters go out with only their hands and teeth to kill animals? You can catch fish with your hands......but I don't see chasing a pig AND being able to kill it
just dont eat meat.
EXACTLY!!!! And if you do, don't come crying to me when you have heart disease, colon cancer ect...
Krazyroo: You're a baiter. If you don't know the answer to that question, you're lying. You're just trying to get someone into an argument so you can be righteous. You guys all have the same MO.
Dogs and cats qualify for the two types of creatures we typically don't eat: other carnivores and companion animals. We seldom eat "companion" animals -dogs and cats- because they are useful to us in some other way (affection, protection, herding). Most of us do not eat any other species that is a carnivore predator: bobcats, hawks, wolves, raccoons...We eat precocial birds- those that can feed themselves upon hatching, like ducks and chickens. We seldom eat altricial birds that must be fed by their parents in order to survive. This may be rooted in what is easiest to raise and catch with minimal danger to ourselves. While I'm not a vegetarian I've promised my chicken she would never have to get a job as a drumstick. She no longer lays eggs (she's in "henopause") but she's a delightful companion.
Move to seoul ask them if its okay to kill dog, actually you wont have to they hang in the streets, as far as meat is concerned I bet you wont be eating cow in India's States that ban it!
If you are going to eat that dog or cat and use it's body parts then I say eat it. It's when you torture, kill for pleasure, or fight these animals...any animal...to the death for your amusement...that's when it becomes sinister and wrong. I haven't eaten commercial dairy or meat since that under cover video of the dairy farm workers abusing the cows.
I'm curious about the video of cow abuse. I'm not saying cows can't feel pain, but they are very tough animals. I've spent my life raising cattle, and I'm not sure I could hit a cow hard enough to cause it pain. I've seen them hit each other in play hard enough to kill a human, but they do it for fun. The only effective way to hurt a cow by hand is either to twist its tail or hit it on the bridge of its nose, and even then, they normally ignore it. What happened on the video?
I agree. All animals have a central nervous system and they react to pain just like we do. It is barbaric to slaughter an animal to satisfy the tounge. One can lead a healthy life style on a vegetarian diet. All of us including animals are sons of god. There can be no peace if one son cuts the other throat to satisfy the tounge.
Uh, no. Not all food animals have a central nervous system, but thanks for playing! Better luck next time!
Where did you get that it's criminal to kill cats and dogs? It's criminal to be torture them, not feed them, withhold water, etc. But you can humanely kill your own pet. There is no law against it.
Awesome....I am totally going to kill my neighbours cat now......I will do it humanely no worries :)
Check your facts. In my state, that is, in fact, a felony.
We don't kill dogs because for at least 15,000 and probably closer to 100,00 years, those animals partnered with us. That dog you think is on the same level as a farm animal would give its life to protect you from any danger it perceived, natural or violent. About half the time you don't even have to be a family member for the animal to intervene because they see almost all non-threatening human beings as worth protecting.
Tufr, thanks for leaving an intelligent comment about dogs. Although I direct a wildlife rehabilitation facility and we are trained to not anthropomorphize animals, it is obvious that not all animals are intellectually equivalent even when closely related. Red Tail hawks are highly discerning and will adopt an unrelated RT infant. Coopers hawks will cannibalize an unrelated bird of the same species. I think in Western culture part of the decision to eat a creature depends on our perception of its intelligence.
Horses? Cheval as the French would say.Delicious I must say.
You 4000+ people who couldn't stand to watch a pig get slaughtered damn well better not eat meat.
I couldn't and I don't. I can't find it in me to kill an animal so I don't feel I have the right to eat one that someone else did the dirty work on. I don't have a problem with picking an apple off a tree or pulling a carrot from the ground. Thus, I stick with fruits and veggies.
You better believe I don't. I won't eat an animal I wouldn't, or haven't, killed myself. I came to this decision gradually but finally in the past three years. Therefore, I haven't had pork in 38 years, no beef in 5 years, no game meat in 25 years. I've limited to eggs and certain seafood. Lobster, clams, fish, yes: caviar, no. It would be hypocritical for me to be against slaughter then eat the results of it.
"Why is it OK to slaughter pigs...but not cats and dogs...?" It's a bit of a good question, though in all frankness, a bit arrogant to have to ask. It's the same reason you don't eat humans: Sentience. Look it up if you don't know the word.
MmmMMMmmm RIBS !
An interesting point is that most "pets" are the more agile species. Dogs and cats are eaten, but they are often not the first choice, and are eaten by less well-off people, as they taste somewhat "sour" and have a very low ROI due to how lean most are. (My source: Several friends who, in thier home country, were at or below the poverty line.)
Most animals raised for the slaughter are lazy by nature. A cow for example will not run if not absolutely necessary. This makes it easy and practical to herd them in large numbers, providing a high ROI.
hypocrisy?.... is to be ok killing animals torturing them for personal pleasure and "gourmet" food... whats so satisfying about heating pig's intestine?.... there's no need for such harsh and degrading foods... In this case, prisons should be turn into butcher house... yes kill the inmates and feed them back to the other inmates... is that wrong? I heard from alot of meat eaters, "meat is meat"......... if thats so....humans are meat.... less excrement, less pollution, less natural resources to maintain one... so... why arent you meat eaters arent doing that?.................. hunting licenses are given due to "over population of a type of animal"............ well there's no over population worst than human over population...the worst of it.............so hunters, meat eaters.... start dining on inmates and those annoying neighbors..... you already dont have a heart.... now stop being hypocrites!
I guess it's just a little different when you grow up on a farm. You see animals as a way of life – of course you come to love them but at the end of the day they are your source for money, livelihood, and sustinance. The emotions you're describing in your article are frankly ones our own kids have overcome by the age of 10 – killing, death, and pain are part of life. I'm not seeing the problem with any of this. Then again I'm not sitting in an apartment in the suburbs having never experienced a great portion of life. I guess we all have to grow up someday.
You hit on the issue Joe....most people in the US today have zero clue about life on a farm...or real life in general...you can tell that by the comments on this article.
Nice try, but not quite. It's not growing up, it's cutting off part of your awareness to adapt to the reality you're in. This sort of thinking will set in any situation that requires an emotional detatchment for survival. Disasters, trauma, chronic abuse also produce this thought process. It's just more socially acceptable because it is necessary if you want to eat.
I just enjoyed venison wrapped in bacon for dinner. All I could think about was how good it tasted. Man I love bacon! Have you ever wrapped bacon around german sausages? I mean WOW that is so good! I have a couple of great recipies if anyone is interested.
Companion animal is a horse, cat and dog. It is inhumane to kill a dog, cat, donkey, horse. Just like dog fighting, illegal and inhumane.
All animals can be killed and eaten, however we choose to not kill the animals that we gain an affection towards. Also, our survival and pleasure is greater than the life of these animals.
Cats can be killed. No lose. But never dogs. They are the only ones with heart and soul and emotion. All other animals are one step away from the stew pot or barbecue grill!
Where did you get the idea that dogs are the only one that have "souls"?
If I was hungry enough I would eat my dog and I've had him for over 10 yrs.
IT'S DISAPPOINTING & DISGUSTING YOU HAVE REVERSED YOUR (ETHICAL) POSITION OF NOT KILLING SENTIENT BEINGS. THE WORLD IS FILLED WITH DASTARDLY CRETINS LIKE YOU.
THE TERRILBE PART IS YOU PROBABLY BECAME A VEGETARIAN BECAUSE YOU UNDERSTAND ALL TOO WELL THE HORRIFIC SUFFERING INHERENT IN 'MEAT EATING.'
GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR NEW PASSION.
People like you are the reason I lock my doors.
Our Ansestorial cousins Chimps and Gorillas are mainly vegetarians, occasionally they do eat insects, termites and chipms eat meat 5% of the time. I do not think they ate cows, pigs, dogs and cats though. Assuming the nature set the evolution trajectory for human being to be vegetarian we should be vegetarian. I am assuming fellow posters!! U ME and ASS.
because dogs and cats are domesticated! Pigs and chickens are not
Or people?
It is sad. I grew up spending a good bit of time on a farm and hunting. We tend to believe today that no animal dies for our meat or poultry but that is not the case. On a small farm, as is the case here and was my experience growing up, the animals have a very good life until that one bad day. On factory farming it is usually not so nice. It is even more difficult for kids who become more attached to the animals especially if it is theirs to raise as in 4H
I haven't eaten any animal in 36 years and I have been vegan for 16 years. What creeped me out the most was the writer claiming she/he ADORES animals! The writer needs a dictionary. When meat eaters say they LOVE animals, I always hope they don't LOVE me.
It's plenty fine in many countries to eat dogs and cats, just not in the United States. I think of it like those sacred cows that nobody will eat... but us Americans wolf down beef like it's going extinct. It's all what your own personal culture and morays allow.
I had a friend that was in Togo Africa with the PeaceCorps. One of her co-workers wanted to try dog but didn't want to eat an ill-fed mutt off the streets. So this friend got a puppy, named it Meatloaf, kept it as a pet, loved it and fed it for 2yrs. Then on the night of his departure from Africa, Meatloaf was butchered and served at this guy's going away party. totally acceptable.
Morays? Who said anything about eating eel?
Great question. I stopped consuming animal products and by-products after rescuing two piglets 13 yrs ago–they are still with me today. They are wonderful creatures and are much smarter than most humans. It says the pigs smelled badly–that is because they didn't care for them and left them in a small pen to wallow in their urine and feces. Pigs are very clean animals and only get into mud to cool themselves and to prevent sunburn. This is a disgusting show and should not be on the "Green" channel–as you cannot be a meat eating environmentalist.
There are so many different views on this...I believe that I need to protect the things in life that can not care for themselves...animals and children. They rely on humans for all that is needed and given to them. To me it is criminal that any living, breathing animal would have to be killed so we could eat them. My heart truly breaks reading that article!
Hypocrisy and speciesism. We arbitrarily put dogs and cats above other animals in the same way that we consider ourselves superior to all other living things...there's no real reason for it, it's just our way of justifying certain behavior. No animal is better or worse than another, just different.
Its my opinion that in order to kill an animal you should eat it, or give it to be eaten. My dad thaught me that. My dad does not like to eat rabbit but loves to hunt rabbit (fond memories of childhood.) My brother and I love rabbit so we figure that is still in the rules. We dont kill animals and leave them to rot, its a waste and disrespectfull. When we hunt deer, and this happens a bit sometimes after they are wounded they run off and we have to track them, which takes a lot of time, but we keep looking until we find them. Also living on a hog farm, the livestock is raised for the purpose to eat, and nothing is ever wasted. There are a great many biproducts from all kinds of livestock that im sorry to say would make a vegan weep. However when someone shoots a pet, (dog , cat or whatever) its usually mean spirited and a waste of life, and compainionship. Now of course if an animal is say rabid or a danger in anyother way, it is il-logical not to kill it, and of course if it is rabid or otherwise in edible you have done no wrong. You are what you eat is also fitting here, in that what you eat becomes a part of you, you assimalate the nutrients and protiens from the food you eat making it literally a part of you. Killing your own food makes it , to me at least even more so true. To those of you that believe this is animal cruelty I am not trying to win a debate here, and not all people think as i do on this subject, but being the stewards of the Earth, means ensuring we eat what we were ment to, regulating the populations of the other species, but not hunting them to extinction. Life should always be charished, but i am sure you have swatted at a mosquito.
Well, in most states its perfectly legal to euthanize or kill your own pet in a humane manner. I can go out tonight and shoot all my pets legally as long as its humane and quick.
For you "vegans" out there thanks for not eating meat- more for me!!!! I kill and slaughter and butcher my own deer, bear, cows, pigs and even cute cuddly baby lambs-yummm oh so tastety lamb chops. They die quick.